Oct. 27, 2025

Jon Gordon x Jeff Little: If Your Team Isn’t Winning… Start Here

Jon Gordon x Jeff Little: If Your Team Isn’t Winning… Start Here
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Season 2

Every leader wants a winning team—but few know how to build one. In this conversation, Jon Gordon and Jeff Little share the real ingredients behind high-trust, high-performing teams: consistency, clarity, and commitment. Discover why culture beats strategy, how to move from “goals” to “commitments,” and why helping others grow is the greatest growth strategy of all.

TIMESTAMPS
3:02 - Why Teams Beat Solo Leaders
7:46 - Principles & Practices of Leadership
9:50 - Culture, Values, and Cascading Leadership
15:40 - Consistency, Trust, And Positive Energy
19:15 - Engagement Over Dictation In Modern Leadership
23:40 - Accessibility, Listening, & Learning
28:10 - Bridging Pastors & Marketplace Leaders
33:20 - The Power of Valuing People
36:20 - Commit to the Person, Moment, Team
40:30 - Culture Fit, Letting People Find The Right Team
44:05 - Clarity Of Vision, Roles, And Buy-In

ADDITIONAL RESOURCES
More Resources: https://leadtowin.com/
Jon Gordon's Resources: https://jongordon.com/
Win With People: https://leadtowin.com/pages/win-with-...
Register for Leaders Gathering: https://leadersgathering.leadtowin.com/
Information on Milestone Church: https://milestonechurch.com/

FIND US AT: https://leadtowin.com

GET IN TOUCH: Contact us at info@leadtowin.com

FOLLOW PASTOR JEFF
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jefflittle/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pastorjefflittle

FOLLOW LEAD TO WIN
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/leadto.win/

00:00 - We Not Me: Opening Idea

00:35 - Welcome And Guest Introduction

03:02 - Why Teams Beat Solo Leaders

07:46 - Principles And Practices Of Leadership

09:50 - Culture, Values, And Cascading Leadership

15:40 - Consistency, Trust, And Positive Energy

19:15 - Engagement Over Dictation In Modern Leadership

23:40 - Accessibility, Listening, And Learning

28:10 - Bridging Pastors And Marketplace Leaders

33:20 - The Power Of Valuing People

36:20 - Commit To The Person, Moment, Team

40:30 - Culture Fit, Letting People Find The Right Team

44:05 - Clarity Of Vision, Roles, And Buy-In

WEBVTT

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Commit to the person in front of.

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Commit to the moment.

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Like in that moment is a great opportunity to commit.

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So then you commit to the team.

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And when you're selfless, when you're selfless, guess what?

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It's about we not me.

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And in the we not me, everybody gets better.

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So we gets better and me gets better.

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So we live in a world that focuses on self-growth.

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Yes.

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So much.

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Personal self-growth strategies, but the greatest self-growth growth strategy of all is to help others grow.

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Once again, I want to welcome you to the Lead to Win podcast where we're helping leaders win in the areas that matter most.

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I want to welcome again, as always, Pastor Jeff.

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And this week, a very special guest, John Gordon.

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So glad to have you here with us.

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John is a top three leadership author, speaker, and consultant, you know, author of 30 books.

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We're going to talk about your newest one in just a second, Pastor Jeff.

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I know you're excited to talk about that.

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Tremendous influence.

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You've probably heard his tips and his content on places like the Today Show, CNBC, Golf Channel, Fox and Friends, all across the place.

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We're so excited to have you here with us talking about how do we win in the areas that matter most.

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Well, I'm so excited to have John here with us.

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John, we're in fact, we're both uh a part of a conference this week, but that's not the only time we've been together.

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We actually got to spend some time together here a few months ago.

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And I just uh respect you, thankful for you.

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Thank you for being a light in so many different arenas.

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I know the sports arena and business arena.

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And so uh we're just glad to have you here with us.

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I love the way you coach others and you help them win.

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I mean, you are a coach when I think about you, and you really impact so many people to be better leaders.

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Thank you so much.

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It means a lot coming from you.

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And uh, and I and and we're we're here at Lead to Win.

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We're just we're really stepping more into this space, and and and our and our hope is even this podcast can inspire somebody.

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It's always always, you know, many times when I'm speaking, I I'm thinking about the one.

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There, there's one person out there that maybe what we chat about today, which I love this because we talk about it behind the scenes, and it's the podcast format gives a chance for people to get a window into some of those conversations.

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And so if there's one person out there that we can help, I'm I'm fired up about you also coming.

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We'll get all this out of the way.

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Then I want to talk about something I know everybody's gonna be into today.

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Right.

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You're coming in January to our Lead to Win gathering, and so that's at the Lead2Win website, leadtowin.com.

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And we're we're just excited to have you in that space.

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I'm fired up to come to speak at that.

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Can't wait for that.

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Yeah.

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Because we'll have pastors, we'll have staff members, you've got you know, people that are leading uh children's ministry and and and they're trying to get volunteers and they're working with teams, and so uh that's gonna happen in January.

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We'd love to have everybody come and join us.

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You're coming out though with this book this year.

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Um, we talked several months ago, and so this this book, The Seven Commitments of a Great Team, and man, there's so many things we could talk about, but I would say I don't know if it's at the top.

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I mean, obviously, your your own personal attitude and heart is gotta be, and you've written about that, talked a lot about that attitude.

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But if you were to say pragmatically, for a business leader, a pastor, especially, a team leader of some team is huge.

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Team is everything.

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Yeah, no one creates success alone.

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Yes, you all need a team to be successful, and you need a team that makes you better.

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Yeah, it's good.

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And you need a team that you are pouring into, investing in, and you're making them better.

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Yes.

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So as a leader, you have to go first, right?

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You have to lead the way.

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And when you demonstrate commitment to your team, you get commitment back.

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Right.

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But a lot of times as leaders, we don't know how to build our teams.

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Yeah.

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We don't know how to build a strong team.

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Right.

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We may lead ourselves, but how do we lead others?

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And working with all the leaders I have over the years, I've seen the best.

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I've worked with the best, and I see how they lead teams.

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I see how they build their teams.

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And there really is a formula.

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Okay.

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There are commitments that you make.

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Okay.

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There are tools and strategies you can use.

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You know what's interesting?

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I was thinking about this the other day.

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I'm not the best leader.

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Like I want to be better as a leader.

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I know I can improve myself in so many ways, but I know that my gift is helping leaders build their teams.

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Okay, good.

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Awesome.

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So what happens is, you know, I'm thinking about the this the setting of speaking to pastors, and a lot of them will be listening to this podcast or an up-and-coming pastor, a church planter, a a person.

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There's so many teams within the the ministry environments, too.

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That's not just the person on the stage, right?

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There's the youth and the and the and the people parking cars, and there's all of that.

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And then also, you know, marketplace leaders.

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What I find is they they get excited about maybe whatever thing fits their personality or passion.

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You know what I mean?

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The the accounting, the accounting person gets excited about the spreadsheet.

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I have been a senior pastor since I was 21.

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So I do speak to them very directly because I'm one of them.

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They get excited about their message.

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Right.

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I mean, so many senior pastors, don't get me wrong, the message is important.

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Right.

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But my message to them is content will draw them, but it's care, commitment, and connection that keeps them, right?

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It's all about relationships.

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It's all about relationships.

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You will never have commitment without connection.

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Yeah.

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So the more connected you are, the more commitment you will generate.

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And so it's all about connection.

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It's about building those relationships.

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And in a big way, you have to make sure you're connecting before you're correcting.

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That's so good.

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And so when you're when you're connecting with your team, then you can correct.

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Then you can leave.

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Because every team needs to get better.

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Right.

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Sure.

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One of the commitments is the commitment to getting better.

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There you go.

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So if I have to get my team to improve and help them grow, well, guess what?

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Correction is going to be a part of it.

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But you got to have the relationship first.

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Exactly.

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So so this template, okay?

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And maybe maybe all seven or however you want to just someone listening to this and and they say, I got to get better at building a team.

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Right.

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You know, and and and I know, I mean, I'm continuing to grow because as the organization changes, as we've now gone to multiple sites, I don't, I don't have some of the things that I'm familiar with in terms of my strengths.

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I don't even have sometimes as much proximity to certain things.

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So we're all growing.

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But I do believe that there are people listening that that really are saying, like, I got to get better at leading team.

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It's just I'm I'm I'm really stalled out or paralyzed, or my church or my ministry or or or my business.

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What's the template?

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Okay, give it give us the goods here.

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Well, the interesting thing is I wrote the energy bus.

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Right.

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And that's 10 rules to fuel your life, work, and team with positive energy.

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And then I wrote the power positive leadership, which is practices and principles.

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And I think first and foremost, leadership, great leadership, is about principles and practices.

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Yes.

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I think a lot of people talk about principles.

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Right, right.

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And if you have principles without practices, that's like having a set of plans, but you don't have the builders to build the house.

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So you need to have the builders, the tools.

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Right.

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You need to actually have the practices on what it looks like to build a team and build an organization.

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Yes.

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And I think we need to give leaders the tools to do that.

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So it's it's not just a framework.

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There's a framework there of principles, right?

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And then there's practices that you do on a daily basis to build your team.

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And for me, it it always starts with culture.

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Right.

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Knowing that culture is not just one thing, it's everything.

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Right.

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It's not just one person, it's everyone.

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Right.

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And the best way to create your culture is to say, what do we stand for?

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What do we want to be known for?

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Right.

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And people often say, well, how do we figure that out?

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I did this with a football coach the other day, actually.

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And I said to him, an NFL coach, I said, Who are you looking for in a player?

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Who are you looking for?

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What are you looking for?

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What does that player look like?

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What do they act like?

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What kind of values do they have?

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And those values that you're actually looking for are your core values that you want in your organization.

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Right.

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It really was an easy way to think about it.

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There you go.

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And once you know what you're looking for and who you would want to bring onto your team, those core values that are actually what you're looking for and will drive you in your organization.

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So what do we stand for?

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And I think today we have all these organizations with mission statements.

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Everyone has a mission statement, but only the great ones have people on a mission.

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There you go.

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So I'm starting to create my culture.

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We're going with vision and mission first.

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And that's actually the first commitment of the seven commitments.

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It's you must commit to the vision and mission of the team.

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So the leader is talking about the vision and mission, or perhaps you don't even have one yet.

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You're coming up with it as a team together.

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Yeah.

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And everyone now is contributing to the conversation.

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What do we want to create?

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Where do we want to go?

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What do we want to build?

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And then why do we want to do it?

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Like what is what is our true mission?

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What's our our essence that's going to drive us?

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And that's how you begin the process of this of these commitments.

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So I I couldn't help but think, because we're here in Texas.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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So we call that all hat, no cattle.

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Okay.

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You know, you you you got a hat, you look the park, you just don't have any cows.

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Right.

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Right?

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So and also I talk about aspirational values versus actual.

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And it's almost more dangerous to put up a set of values or mission statement.

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You know, we we love people or we care, and you you don't really like people, right?

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You know, I mean no one else in the organization feels it.

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Exactly.

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It's on the wall.

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Remember Enron?

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Yes.

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One of their core values was integrity.

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Wow.

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How did that go?

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Exactly.

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Didn't work.

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Exactly.

00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:14.480
So you'd be better off to not even put a mission or value system that doesn't have congruency or integrity with who you actually are, you know.

00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:18.639
And I think I think that the the discovery of that is important.

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We could talk about culture all day because I mean you have to look in the mirror too, right?

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I mean, as a leader, that's a hard, that's a hard process because you don't you don't get what you want.

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You you you attract who you are.

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Who you are, right, right, and the essence of you.

00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:36.480
Right.

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I always tell leaders when you want to create your culture and you're looking to build your culture and improve your culture, what essence do you want to share?

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What is the best within you?

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And then you got to share it.

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Right.

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And you got to live it.

00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:48.720
Yeah.

00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:51.919
But that culture needs to reflect who you are as a leader.

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Right.

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That essence must come from you and your leadership team.

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And we we call this cascading leadership.

00:10:57.679 --> 00:10:57.840
Okay.

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Where you, as a leader, you cascade this to your leadership team.

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Right.

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They understand the vision, they understand the mission, they know the core values, they know what the culture stands for.

00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:10.720
And then they start living it and breathing it.

00:11:10.799 --> 00:11:13.840
And then they cascade that down to their direct reports.

00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:14.159
Right.

00:11:14.320 --> 00:11:19.279
We often lose culture along the way because people aren't cascading it down the organization.

00:11:19.360 --> 00:11:23.120
And we usually lose it around mid-level of the organization.

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Where you have a manager that's a manager, becomes a taskmaster, not really a leader, doesn't know how to lead, not living the values, not living the mission and vision, and then it doesn't come to life.

00:11:34.240 --> 00:11:34.559
Right.

00:11:34.799 --> 00:11:38.639
Often also on the front line as well, which is really important of organizations.

00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:39.600
That makes sense.

00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:47.360
It's uh I uh in the energy bus reading about George and the gap between so fixated on outcomes but lacking the self-awareness.

00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:50.799
I know a lot of times, both ministry and business, there's the gap, right?

00:11:50.879 --> 00:12:00.399
Like I think I'm this kind of a leader, but I'm so focused on outcomes, I'm not actually thinking about becoming the kind of leader I'm trying to attract or or to have on my team.

00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:02.159
Why do you think it's so hard?

00:12:02.399 --> 00:12:07.759
We want, like you were saying, even with the coach, we want this kind of a team player in our organization.

00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:10.639
Why is it hard for us to become that kind of a team player?

00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:16.080
We want others to be committed, but we're not the committed one.

00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:16.480
Right.

00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:18.320
I always tell the leaders, you have to go first.

00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:18.799
Right.

00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:19.279
That's good.

00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:20.159
You lead the way.

00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:21.919
They're looking around going, they're not committed.

00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:22.960
So-and-so is not committed.

00:12:23.039 --> 00:12:24.320
So is so-and-so is not committed.

00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:25.120
But are you committed?

00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:25.360
Right.

00:12:25.759 --> 00:12:27.600
And do they feel your commitment?

00:12:27.679 --> 00:12:27.840
Yeah.

00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:30.080
And so commitment recognizes commitment.

00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:31.919
And we often we often don't see it.

00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:35.600
I have a lot of people that will email me saying, My boss gave me the energy bus.

00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:43.679
My boss is the biggest energy vampire around, but said, You need to read this book and say you're either on my bus or off my bus.

00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:43.919
Yeah.

00:12:44.559 --> 00:12:46.159
And that's not the point of the book.

00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:47.200
It's not about that.

00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:49.679
The point is, no, be the leader they want to follow.

00:12:49.759 --> 00:12:49.919
Yeah.

00:12:50.159 --> 00:12:51.679
Be the leader that engages them.

00:12:51.759 --> 00:12:51.919
Yeah.

00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:57.360
Be positively contagious in a way that it is infectious to those that you're leading.

00:12:57.519 --> 00:13:00.799
And I was just asked the other day, like, what's the most important characteristic of a leader?

00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:07.440
And what does Dabbo Sweeney have, the coach of Clemson that Sean McVeigh has, the coach of the Rams, and all these great coaches and leaders I work with?

00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:08.080
What do they have?

00:13:08.159 --> 00:13:13.519
And I really believe believe a great leader has that positive, infectious energy.

00:13:13.759 --> 00:13:13.919
Yeah.

00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:14.320
Yeah.

00:13:14.559 --> 00:13:19.679
They may not even be, you know, an extrovert, but they have this energy that they share that people feel.

00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:23.679
But they also feel the commitment of the leader.

00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:28.720
They know this person, this leader, is actually for me, cares about me.

00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:29.039
Right.

00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:31.840
And their agenda is you.

00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:32.240
Yeah.

00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:40.559
Their agenda is you is you and your growth, you and how you contribute to the company, you and how you contribute to the organization so that we can all grow together.

00:13:40.799 --> 00:13:45.120
The minute, the minute they know that a leader is about themselves, they're checked out.

00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:45.919
They're checked out, yeah.

00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:47.519
They don't trust, they don't trust.

00:13:47.679 --> 00:13:47.759
Yeah.

00:13:47.919 --> 00:13:50.240
True, they don't have buy-in.

00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:53.759
Nick Sabin, most people in the world know who Nick Sabin is.

00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:54.159
Right.

00:13:54.399 --> 00:14:00.720
And the other day I was I was thinking about the fact that I had a coach tell me that they worked for Nick Sabin.

00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:02.159
They were an assistant for him.

00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:10.080
They said every day at the same time, he would pull out a candy bar and eat that candy bar the same time every single day.

00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:12.320
Such consistency.

00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:12.559
Right.

00:14:12.799 --> 00:14:15.759
They said he was the most consistent person in everything they've ever met.

00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:19.200
And I realized that's why he was successful.

00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:21.039
He often wasn't liked by his team.

00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:21.360
Right.

00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:23.679
We know Nick Staben is not always likable.

00:14:23.919 --> 00:14:24.240
Sure.

00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:26.240
But his team trusted him.

00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:26.559
Right.

00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:26.960
Wow.

00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:28.480
Because he was so consistent.

00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:34.159
And I think it's more important to be trusted than not than be than be liked.

00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:34.960
Exactly.

00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:36.159
Trusted than liked.

00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:39.360
They trusted him, even though they might have thought, coach, he's negative.

00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:40.480
He's always yelling at me.

00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:42.240
I trust him because he's so consistent.

00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:43.600
I know what to expect from him.

00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:43.840
Yes.

00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:51.279
The leader that is positive one day, negative another, has one personality one day, negative the next, or another personality.

00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:56.639
You just don't know what to expect from that leader, then that leader loses trust because they're not consistent.

00:14:56.960 --> 00:14:57.039
Wow.

00:14:57.440 --> 00:14:57.919
So good.

00:14:58.080 --> 00:14:58.480
So good.

00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:02.799
I mean, culture, we we can it's it's everything because it really is.

00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:10.080
When you talk about team, teams are are are formed and and and and live within a cultural ethos.

00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:11.679
You use the word essence.

00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:12.240
I like that.

00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:21.759
There's this essence of and and I think you're hitting on something so big that you that if you know I want more for you than I want from you, like that's good.

00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:24.159
Motives is so big in there.

00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:32.799
If I know coach is really ultimately about us as a team winning, it's not about him, it's about us.

00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:38.639
Then then you get a major uh sacrificial type environment going on.

00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:45.120
And and a few things I know this is so basic, but I'm surprised by how many people who manage people don't know this.

00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:49.919
It's the number one reason why people leave work environments, leave churches.

00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:53.759
It's it's the direct manager person working with them.

00:15:53.919 --> 00:16:00.720
It's not even this great organizational whole, it's the culture that they're experiencing at that at that place.

00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:02.799
People don't leave jobs, they leave people.

00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:03.600
They leave people.

00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:05.360
That's true, and we have to understand that.

00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:09.279
And as a leader, if you're engaged with them, they're gonna be engaged.

00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:10.399
They know you care about them.

00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:19.519
It's gonna be hard for them to leave, even if they get a better offer, even if they get more money because of that relationship and that engagement and that trust that you have.

00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:23.840
But you're right, you know, as we know, it really is about the basic things, right?

00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:26.240
So often we don't do the basic things, right?

00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:29.279
And we don't lead in the basic fundamentals, right?

00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:32.320
But you do the fundamentals, even as a football coach.

00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:34.399
You do the fundamentals, you're gonna have a great team.

00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:34.879
That's true.

00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:38.240
You do the fundamentals as a leader, you're gonna be a much better leader.

00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:38.799
Yeah, yeah.

00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:45.600
Today in our in our worlds in space in church, there's this this new term, you know, church hurt, right?

00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:46.720
Other than hurt.

00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:59.600
And and what's dangerous there is they can ascribe that there's there's people we're pastoring and ministering to who there's a a a social kind of construct that they're they're saying the church.

00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:03.200
Well, first of all, Jesus' church, okay.

00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:06.559
Now that is a whole different thing than my personal experience.

00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:11.519
So as you said, we've got to be careful identifying with the church, and really it's people.

00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:16.559
Just like a company, you say, you don't leave jobs, you don't leave companies, you leave people.

00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:17.759
Same thing in church.

00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:18.240
True.

00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:29.359
You're you're leaving a cultural construct, world, ethos that happened to be in a church or at a church, but it's not necessarily the church.

00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:30.880
Right, right, right.

00:17:31.039 --> 00:17:32.640
It's there's a difference, it's that building.

00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:34.880
Yeah, it's the people in that building.

00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:35.599
Exactly.

00:17:35.920 --> 00:17:39.039
And maybe you'd have a good experience with the people in that building.

00:17:39.279 --> 00:17:39.519
Right.

00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:41.519
But don't let Christians keep you from Christ.

00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:42.079
Exactly.

00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:42.720
It's really good.

00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:43.279
Exactly.

00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:43.599
Yeah.

00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:45.839
So the leaders though, listening, right?

00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:48.400
We have to work through the world we live in today.

00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:58.000
So being a leader of a great team today used it used to be where the pastor primarily the congregation was listening to the pastor.

00:17:58.079 --> 00:17:58.160
Right.

00:17:58.400 --> 00:17:59.680
Or the the coach.

00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:11.920
I mean, I think about these college coaches now and the the NIL and the portal and the social media and the inputs, you know, like my high school coach, I mean, he was my coach.

00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:16.799
I didn't really I could I wasn't gonna get on the internet and listen to somebody else's playbook.

00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:25.440
Right now, talk about this for a minute because leading a business or anything you're leading in a church, what what do you do?

00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:32.640
I think we have to be better at commitment today because there's so many options and so many voices.

00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:42.559
I believe the current situations, NIL and sports, in the workplace with a lot of choices to go of companies to go work for.

00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:46.960
What we're realizing is is it's making leaders become better.

00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:49.039
They have to be better, they have to engage.

00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:49.519
Yes.

00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:53.200
The younger people today want to have lunch with their CEO.

00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:57.039
If they don't have lunch with their CEO, their mom's gonna call.

00:18:57.920 --> 00:18:58.799
Just kidding.

00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:00.240
But but but maybe not.

00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:01.200
Right?

00:19:01.519 --> 00:19:05.440
So, like, you know, you have to engage the younger people.

00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:11.839
You have to engage people who want to know that you care about them, right, and they can trust you.

00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:16.319
And so leaders told me today, like years ago, people just did what I said.

00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:20.880
Yeah, yeah, but now I have to earn their trust and I have to tell them why I'm doing it.

00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:22.720
Yeah, but that makes us better leaders.

00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:34.240
And so my model of positive leadership, which is really Jesus' model for leadership, is about engaging people, building relationships, sharing the vision, collaborative leadership, dictatorial leadership no longer works.

00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:34.480
Right.

00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:36.160
It's about collaborative leadership.

00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:37.920
Where are we going together?

00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:38.240
Right.

00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:40.319
What do we want to accomplish together?

00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:42.880
Knowing it takes all of us and getting input.

00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:49.759
When I wrote The Energy Bus, the main character, George, basically says, Here's my vision, who's on my bus, and this is where we're going.

00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:57.519
If I could write that again, George would have met with his team and said, basically, hey, what is our vision and where do we want to go together?

00:19:57.759 --> 00:19:58.160
Exactly.

00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:00.160
And I think it's important to get that buy-in.

00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:03.359
So when people weigh in, right, weigh in, they get more buy-in.

00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:03.680
Yeah.

00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:04.799
And they'll have more buy-in.

00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:07.519
So you gotta get them to weigh in and feel like they're part of the process.

00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:17.119
And now with social media and with people commenting all the time, and everyone's now a contributor, people are used to now putting in their opinions and being heard.

00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:18.960
And so you have to be a curator of that.

00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:19.759
And guess what?

00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:21.920
You actually have to care what people think and say.

00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:27.359
You do, you do, like you can't you can't let it drive you all of your decisions.

00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:32.880
You have to be clear on who God's called you to be, and what but you do have to consider it.

00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:36.960
Anyone who I say I don't care, right, they're out of touch with leadership.

00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:45.680
And let me clarify on that when I say care what people think and say, a lot of times as a pastor, you can be only focused on your message, right?

00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:47.359
What you're learning.

00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:47.839
Yes.

00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:49.599
And I'm having to do this as well.

00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:55.039
I have a circle, I have a community of leaders that I lead now, and I'm so used to just being about me and what I'm saying.

00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:57.039
And now it's about, so what do you think about that?

00:20:57.279 --> 00:20:58.400
What can I learn from you?

00:20:58.559 --> 00:20:58.799
Yeah.

00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:00.480
And oh, tell me about that.

00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:05.440
And so I'm actually learning and listening and going, oh, that's a gem here.

00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:06.240
That's a gem there.

00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:06.400
Right.

00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:08.880
Because you can be so focused on your thoughts and your messages.

00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:14.960
So now actually engaging others and learning from others, I think is a key part of great leadership as well.

00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:21.039
It's one of my big messages to pastors, and I talk about being a shepherd and being a pastor and being accessible.

00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:34.480
Now, obviously, as a church grows, there's certain things that that you are not accessible to because you're only one person, but there's a spirit and a heart, even like say standing in the foyer on the weekend and shaking hands.

00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:46.000
I've learned that there are a few people who will shake hands with me, but the people who even walk by and recognize that I am a part of the family and I'm not living in an ivory tower, right?

00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:46.160
Right.

00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:48.480
Gives them a sense of trust toward me, right?

00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:58.480
And so you have to be, but I've learned this by me being a pastor and not just an influencer or speaker, makes me better when I do speak.

00:21:58.559 --> 00:21:58.880
Yes.

00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:00.319
Because I know my audience.

00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:00.880
Yes.

00:22:01.039 --> 00:22:02.319
I'm not talking about theory.

00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:02.720
Yes.

00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:09.359
I shook their hand last night and with me, my kids, or this is where I'm at, or I mean, I'm I'm constantly.

00:22:09.519 --> 00:22:11.680
I know a lot of guys have to do a lot of surveys.

00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:11.920
Yeah.

00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:14.880
Like you wouldn't have to survey so much if you actually know your people.

00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:15.440
Right.

00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:16.079
Right.

00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:16.960
I like that.

00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:17.680
It's really true.

00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:18.400
I like that.

00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:20.160
That is really good.

00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:23.519
I think it's underestimated sometimes because I'm on the team.

00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:24.319
I think you know this.

00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:27.200
You're my team leader, but I'm on the team because you're a learner.

00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:29.200
And I watched that before I was on your team.

00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:30.559
Watch the way that you learn.

00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:33.920
What you're talking about, really, and what you were sharing, building consensus.

00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:38.160
Not, oh, I'm going to go meet with these people because I have to, and I'm just going through the motions.

00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:39.759
You genuinely want to know.

00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:44.720
And a leader who communicates to people, I'm trying to learn, I'm trying to get better.

00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:48.079
People who learn while they lead, they do build trust, like you're saying.

00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:52.400
We have a certification program now where we certify people to deliver our programs.

00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:55.920
When they sign up a certification, I call everyone personally.

00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:56.640
Wow.

00:22:56.880 --> 00:22:57.359
Everyone.

00:22:57.519 --> 00:22:59.039
So I have a conversation with them.

00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:00.400
Why'd you get certified?

00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:01.440
Tell me what you want to do with it.

00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:02.160
It's amazing.

00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:05.119
I'm learning so much from these conversations.

00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:06.079
It is hard to do this.

00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:06.799
It is, yeah.

00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:07.680
It takes a lot of time.

00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:09.440
They now have my cell number when I call them.

00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:10.720
Are they surprised when you call them?

00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:13.440
Yeah, well, they're expecting it, but they're still surprised.

00:23:13.759 --> 00:23:16.240
But I have great conversations with these people.

00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:21.680
And to your point, I am now learning from them, and it's giving me great information for marketing.

00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:23.519
Who's our key person?

00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:24.720
Why are they getting certified?

00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:28.319
It's allowing me to understand our business even better.

00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:30.319
So overall, it does make you better.

00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:37.920
The event that we're we're both speaking at now while I'm here in town, I just did that event today, and I asked him, Can I come off stage for a little bit?

00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:44.559
And the guy said, Oh, the audience loves when you come off stage to be with them.

00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:44.880
Right.

00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:46.960
And I think it's the same thing as a pastor.

00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:48.880
You can't just be on stage.

00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:52.079
You gotta come offstage and be with them.

00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:56.480
Don't be the guy on the video, be the guy they see in person and could talk to and learn from.

00:23:56.559 --> 00:23:57.519
And I love that you do that.

00:23:57.759 --> 00:23:59.920
Well, I want to I want to ask you this question, okay?

00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:04.480
Team, and again, a lot of our listeners are ministry leaders, okay?

00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:08.000
And obviously there's the staff team, yeah, right.

00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:10.799
And then you have your congregation as your team.

00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:18.559
I mean, they're on it, but there's a specific area for pastors that I found is a is a there's an intimidation.

00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:22.880
They want to learn more about it, and that is working with marketplace leaders.

00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:31.680
Like you're here because I was friends with you and connected you with some of our marketplace guys because I wanted to add value to them through my friendship with you.

00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:36.240
And so I'm I have relationships with these marketplace leaders.

00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:47.200
And there's a lot of times there's a big divide between a pastor and and I think it's the enemy, because those people need a pastor, they need this, they need transfer, and so they need it.

00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:50.559
The business leader needs that relationship.

00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:55.200
And the pastor, I've learned so much because 30 years I've hung out with business guys.

00:24:55.519 --> 00:25:03.599
So when I communicate about something in our church about a building project or something, I don't look like this dumb guy who doesn't know what's going on because they ask hard questions.

00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:04.799
I'm better.

00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:05.359
Oh, yeah.

00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:07.440
Yeah, what would you say though?

00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:15.119
Because a a being team, talking about a ministry leader, being team with let's just say leaders in general.

00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:18.720
Yeah, like the people that can move the ball are not looking for something to do.

00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:27.119
How do we as ministry leaders be team with these people who live in a different world than us and we could be intimidated?

00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:32.480
The key is to move from isolation and disconnection to connection.

00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:33.200
That's great.

00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:36.640
To to build those relationships, build those bridges.

00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:41.440
A lot of times there's two different languages business language and church language are different.

00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:43.279
You have to learn their language, right?

00:25:43.359 --> 00:25:46.480
Yeah, but you also have to reach out and lend a hand.

00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:48.559
You also have to engage.

00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:52.000
You think that business leader doesn't need help.

00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:52.799
They do.

00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:53.359
They do.

00:25:53.680 --> 00:26:02.000
Leaders need a team because a leader who is lonely is a leader who won't make a good decision at times.

00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:02.160
Right.

00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:09.359
A leader who is lonely or alone will feel isolated and then will not be their best because they feel disconnected.

00:26:09.759 --> 00:26:14.079
So so leaders need teams, they need other people, they need counsel.

00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:24.799
So what I would say is is you provide a tremendous value to that business leader because they need counsel, they might be struggling in their marriage, right?

00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:27.039
They might not have a relationship with their kids.

00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:31.759
Yeah, yeah, they might be very successful in the business world, but they might be struggling at home.

00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:37.359
And we believe where I work, my my team, my organization, if you're a failure at home, you're a failure.

00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:39.119
Doesn't matter how much success you have.

00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:45.599
So they need to get counsel, they need that counsel, and they also need spiritual nurturing and encouragement.

00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:54.079
And you could provide that because so often they do feel disconnected, they don't have a relationship with God, they're not praying, they're not taking the time to really connect with God.

00:26:54.240 --> 00:27:01.440
And over time, that disconnection from God will wreak havoc on their life and their soul and ultimately their decisions.

00:27:01.599 --> 00:27:01.759
Right.

00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:06.799
So so so you have so much to offer them, they don't need you to be a business leader.

00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:10.880
No, they don't need you to know business like they do, right?

00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:11.440
Right?

00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:14.559
And and you don't need them to be a pastor, right?

00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:20.240
You compliment each other, and so it's about hey, let's get coffee together.

00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:23.200
But let's how can I help you?

00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:25.200
Right, how can I serve you?

00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:26.880
What what's going on in your life?

00:27:27.039 --> 00:27:34.559
Just get to be a friend, you just develop a friendship and be friends with them and be there for them, is how the process begins.

00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:36.880
We're st we're back to the same thing though, right?

00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:38.640
You're back, it's back to the commitment.

00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:48.640
If if my motive is I want to commit to serve you and to help you, then the relationship begins to have a trust.

00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:50.079
What you said earlier.

00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:58.559
If that business leader picks up that you're there to raise money or your deal and you have an angle, or they can smell that a mile away, right?

00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:09.119
You have to say to yourself, as the pastor, will I pour myself and my time and energy into this business leader even if they never give a dime?

00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:11.359
It's true, am I willing to do that?

00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:14.079
Yeah, am I willing to commit to that?

00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:18.480
Yeah, and we know that Jesus would, but will you?

00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:19.119
Exactly.

00:28:19.519 --> 00:28:22.880
And and it requires us to be selfless, yeah, exactly.

00:28:23.119 --> 00:28:23.839
Which is hard to do.

00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:28.480
Yeah, yeah, because we do want that support, we want that financial contribution.

00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:43.279
But myself, even as a business leader, the minute I feel that from a pastor, we will not have the same trust if I know that you actually just you know are there for me and you want to be there for me.

00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:45.039
Yeah, you're not looking for something.

00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:45.920
Exactly.

00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:50.400
And and I and I love when pastors have not asked me for a dime.

00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:50.960
Yeah, yeah.

00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:53.839
And then I know God convicts me to give.

00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:54.240
Yeah.

00:28:54.400 --> 00:28:55.519
Like you have to trust in God.

00:28:55.599 --> 00:28:58.799
God's gonna you already have that, you already have that motivation.

00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:00.400
Yeah, that's how God made them.

00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:03.680
So that's a that's a but ways to add value.

00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:04.880
Here's what I've learned.

00:29:05.200 --> 00:29:08.079
A simple text to a business leader during the week.

00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:13.039
This morning I woke up, I was praying, and I would like to just, you know, have send you this verse.

00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:13.440
Right.

00:29:13.839 --> 00:29:21.519
I mean, that is a drink of water to somebody in the battle that you offer as a pastor because it carries weight with them.

00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:23.200
You're like, well, this guy knows about the Bible.

00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:24.240
Here's a verse.

00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:33.200
Coming to uh their place of business and being genuine, genuinely interested, meaning to learn from them, hey, what are you doing with your team?

00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:36.079
You know, tell me, let me pray over your business or your leaders.

00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:41.839
There's so many practical ways that aren't really that complicated that you can really add a lot of value.

00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:46.160
Here's the simplest you text and say, How are you doing?

00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:47.920
Yeah, that's it.

00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:49.599
How are you doing?

00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:51.599
They might say, Good, I'm doing great.

00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:52.319
Okay, awesome.

00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:53.839
Just checking in on you.

00:29:54.319 --> 00:29:58.160
That simple text of how are you doing goes a long way.

00:29:58.319 --> 00:29:59.680
I have done this for coaches.

00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:06.079
Over the years, NFL college coaches who I've spoken to and spoke to their teams, keep in touch with them.

00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:07.839
And I just say, How are you doing?

00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:10.559
And there have been times, can we get on a call?

00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:11.519
Wow.

00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:14.720
Many times it's I'm doing great or not doing so good.

00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:15.759
Don't feel like talking right now.

00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:16.960
Okay, that's great.

00:30:17.119 --> 00:30:18.000
But how are you doing?

00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:27.200
And those calls in those most opportune times, God ordained times, have been magical, incredible, sure, and transformative.

00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:30.559
And at the right time when they need you and you're there, boom.

00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:30.799
Yeah.

00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:35.599
That's where the relationship really develops when they know that you're there in the moment that they need you.

00:30:35.759 --> 00:30:36.640
And guess what?

00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:39.759
That leader, their kids probably need you.

00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:40.240
Yeah.

00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:41.920
Their kids are probably struggling.

00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:45.599
So offer to to help the kids in some capacity.

00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:55.200
Again, you you just you're just providing a support, an environment, an opportunity that if you need something, we're here to serve, we're here to help.

00:30:55.680 --> 00:30:58.880
And and again, it starts with a friendship and getting to know each other.

00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:00.640
And don't even make it awkward.

00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:03.359
Just just like let's just hang out and talk.

00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:03.680
Yeah.

00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:04.960
And that's it's that simple.

00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:06.559
So you have this team book.

00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:14.400
So I I just released a book about when with people, but it's it's a message specifically to ministry leaders to be a shepherd.

00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:16.079
Return to the call of a shepherd.

00:31:16.559 --> 00:31:21.599
And when I was writing the book, I learned that we have a false perspective of shepherds.

00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:22.000
Right.

00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:28.480
And that is that they're just this isolated, you know, uh shepherd out there with a lamb around their neck, you know.

00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:31.359
But but actually when I was by the little sheep, yeah.

00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:40.720
But you when we started researching it, they they have to understand weather and navigation, and they end up many times as a team of shepherds or who and and and and being effective.

00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:43.119
They know how to deal with predators, get close enough.

00:31:43.279 --> 00:31:47.039
David, when he was dealing with the predator, was close enough to grab it by the hair.

00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:49.279
What did you in writing?

00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:57.759
Because I'm saying this to say when you get in, you know, you have this truth or this principle and you start down the path out of your book.

00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:00.640
The this I want you to hold it up so everybody can see it too.

00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:01.680
This is a beautiful cover.

00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:11.359
Pretty much the seven commitments of a great team when you dug in this, because you already had because you've been working with teams and coaches.

00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:15.359
But when you got into it, what were a few of your oh wow.

00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:17.440
What what what really stirred you?

00:32:17.680 --> 00:32:19.119
What did you learn in it?

00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:24.640
The commitment to valuing each other on a team.

00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:26.880
That came at the end.

00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:27.519
Okay.

00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:32.720
If if you don't value each other, then you're not going to do any of the other commitments.

00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:32.960
Okay.

00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:34.880
So you have to see the value in someone else.

00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:40.720
What happened was I didn't have the ending, and I was talking to my co-author of the coffee being Damon West.

00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:42.799
And Damon had been in prison.

00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:47.279
And I said, Damon, tell me about the most effective team building exercise you've ever done.

00:32:47.680 --> 00:32:52.960
He goes, Well, John, I don't do team building exercises, but let me tell you about the best exercise I've ever seen.

00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:53.200
Okay.

00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:54.319
And it was in prison.

00:32:54.799 --> 00:33:04.559
And he said, We had these prisoners sitting in a row, and the free men came from the outside, and they took buckets of water and they washed their feet.

00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:05.119
Wow.

00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:11.680
And as they washed their feet, these men, these Horden criminals, began to cry and weep.

00:33:11.839 --> 00:33:16.400
And they then wanted to return the favor and then wash the feet of the free men.

00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:18.480
And I said, Why is that so powerful?

00:33:18.559 --> 00:33:20.000
What really happened there?

00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:25.599
For the first time, these prisoners who don't have value in a prison felt valuable.

00:33:26.319 --> 00:33:31.920
And because they felt valuable, they then in turn wanted to value the people who wash their feet.

00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:35.680
And I said, Well, we can't wash people's feet in work.

00:33:35.839 --> 00:33:39.359
That might not be the thing that we can always do it in the workplace or corporate America.

00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:45.359
I work a lot with corporate America, but how can we as a team demonstrate value to each other?

00:33:45.519 --> 00:33:50.640
And how is a leader demonstrate that you value your team members?

00:33:50.799 --> 00:33:51.039
Right.

00:33:51.279 --> 00:34:00.319
And so in the book, the leader starts to send out these personal videos one by one to members of the team saying how much they appreciate them.

00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:10.480
So I created an acronym for value and it's it's validate, it's appreciate, it's listen, understand, and empathize.

00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:16.000
And so as you do that, people will then feel that you value them and they will feel valued.

00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:18.960
So to me, that was like a big eye-opener for me.

00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:21.440
And then the the commitment to each other.

00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:28.639
Like you can have the great vision, you could have the great mission, but ultimately what it comes down to with great teams is there's actually a commitment to that person.

00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:29.360
True.

00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:29.840
Yeah.

00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:33.760
So I've been telling teams a lot lately, commit to the person in front of you.

00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:35.679
Commit to the moment.

00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:38.159
Like in that moment is a great opportunity to commit.

00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:38.719
That's so good.

00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:41.119
And then and then you commit to the team.

00:34:41.599 --> 00:34:45.519
And when you're selfless, when you're selfless, guess what?

00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:47.199
It's about we not me.

00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:50.960
And in the we not me, everybody gets better.

00:34:51.119 --> 00:34:53.280
So we gets better and me gets better.

00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:56.239
So we live in a world that focuses on on self-growth.

00:34:56.480 --> 00:34:56.639
Yes.

00:34:56.800 --> 00:34:57.119
So much.

00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:01.519
Personal self-growth strategies, but the greatest self-growth growth strategy of all is to help others grow.

00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:02.239
That's so true.

00:35:02.480 --> 00:35:05.039
So the minute I help my team improve, I get better.

00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:05.519
Yes, yes.

00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:06.239
I improve.

00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:10.559
You said the minute you start helping and speaking to your congregation, you get better.

00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:14.159
Yes, it takes more time, more energy, more effort.

00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:16.480
But here's the other thing commitment's gonna cost you something.

00:35:16.639 --> 00:35:17.039
It is, yeah.

00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:17.599
Always, yeah.

00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:21.360
Time, energy, effort, vacations.

00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:31.360
It may cost you something major, it may cost you something small, but it's gonna cost you something, but you get so much more when beyond that cost.

00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:32.559
That's so good.

00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:38.880
So the the whole all the commitments basically are fulfilled.

00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:48.239
I'm just repeating back to you what you said by this value, this, this, this way you value the other person.

00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:53.039
And so it could be said you'll never build a great team if you don't value people.

00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:53.280
Right.

00:35:53.599 --> 00:35:57.280
If you don't really value people, you're never gonna be a great team leader.

00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:02.400
Because you're not gonna commit to them and they're not gonna, they won't commit to you.

00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:02.800
Right.

00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:07.039
You can't do it because the book says so, or I gotta check the box that I need a care today.

00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:07.679
There you go.

00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:09.840
I I'm supposed to care, so I have to care.

00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:10.079
Right.

00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:11.519
Going back to essence, right?

00:36:11.679 --> 00:36:12.559
It comes from the heart.

00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:13.440
It comes from the heart.

00:36:13.599 --> 00:36:23.519
So if there's a a heart of value, an essence of I see you, I value, I recognize you, I appreciate you, well, then they're gonna feel that.

00:36:24.159 --> 00:36:27.679
Even with AI, we know it's the human feeling that's important.

00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:28.239
It's true.

00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:28.880
It's so important.

00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:29.599
It's really true.

00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:33.840
I I keep thinking about something as we've talked to culture teams.

00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:44.320
You have to be willing to also recognize that this person is not a team player, they don't want to be on this team, or maybe they just want to wear a different jersey or something like that.

00:36:44.559 --> 00:36:45.440
And you know what?

00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:50.960
You can still value that person even if they're not called to be on your team.

00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:54.239
Yeah, true, you know, and say, How can I help you?

00:36:54.480 --> 00:37:02.480
Because I'll tell people a lot of times with church, we know our value, we love you, but we don't have to be on the same team, right?

00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:04.239
You know, there's plenty of churches, right?

00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:04.800
You know what I mean?

00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:07.280
Why would you why would you live your life miserably?

00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:11.199
Because one thing that's not gonna happen, we're we're gonna keep our culture.

00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:11.599
Yeah, right.

00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:12.320
You know what I mean?

00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:17.519
Wherever I go speak, people leave or are fired.

00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:18.000
Okay.

00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:26.000
It's true, but it's always a great thing because the people that are not meant to be on that bus get off or ask to get off.

00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:32.000
And everybody gets better because maybe that person, often that person is not meant to be on your team.

00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:34.079
They're meant to be on another team.

00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:40.480
And when when that happens, we don't do this in churches enough because we don't want to let someone go.

00:37:40.559 --> 00:37:40.719
Right.

00:37:41.119 --> 00:37:42.559
We think everyone should stay on, right?

00:37:42.719 --> 00:37:46.400
But no, maybe that person is meant to be on another bus somewhere else, another team.

00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:46.639
Right.

00:37:46.960 --> 00:37:53.920
I believe you give them every chance to get on, talk about is there alignment with vision and mission, and can we accomplish this together?

00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:59.519
But it's okay to say, as you said, we're meant to be perhaps on just different teams.

00:37:59.679 --> 00:37:59.920
Yeah.

00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:03.360
But in marriages, you always have to remember you're on the same team.

00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:04.000
There you go.

00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:04.400
That's true.

00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:05.440
That's the key with marriages.

00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:08.239
Like too many marriages act like they're on two different teams.

00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:14.320
And for them, it's about no, you have to join together to be on the same team.

00:38:14.480 --> 00:38:20.000
I had one guy email me and said, Hey, my wife's an energy vampire, but kicking her off the bus is not an option.

00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:21.280
Very true.

00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:22.800
What what what do I do?

00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:27.760
And it's about common vision and mission, alignment of values.

00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:29.599
Where do we want to go?

00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:30.639
What do we want to achieve together?

00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:35.599
Really having the comp the difficult conversations that every team needs to have.

00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:41.199
So often we have issues on our teams because we don't have the conversations in order to get better.

00:38:41.440 --> 00:38:46.559
And so things start to surface, things start to actually cause division and disconnection.

00:38:46.639 --> 00:38:46.719
Right.

00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:50.079
And if we don't deal with those things, the gap becomes a canyon.

00:38:50.559 --> 00:38:56.079
I would say to the man, a lot of times, I mean, the scripture's pretty clear, love your wife like Jesus loves us.

00:38:56.480 --> 00:39:02.079
So she may be an energy vampire because she's responding to the deficit of your lack of asthma.

00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:03.360
Relationship and care.

00:39:03.679 --> 00:39:05.519
Because I'll have guys say, Well, my wife is crazy.

00:39:05.599 --> 00:39:07.039
I'm like, Well, what does that say about you?

00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:09.440
Because you married her or made her that way.

00:39:09.679 --> 00:39:10.000
Okay.

00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:12.719
So let's not get too much into the blame here.

00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:13.360
Right, right.

00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:16.719
You have a you have a big part to play in the culture you're creating.

00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:17.840
And that is true.

00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:20.079
The home, the family, it's all a team.

00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:20.559
Right.

00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:22.159
Your work is a team.

00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:30.000
And and and I I love that in ministry work, I don't think we are clear enough a lot of times about vision.

00:39:30.159 --> 00:39:37.519
I'm I've done been doing this a long time in the last probably seven years with our church, with our team, vision weekends.

00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:42.159
I've realized because vision does leak, but in our world today, it's also replaced.

00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:46.000
The vacuum that used to be there, it would just leak and be be empty.

00:39:46.079 --> 00:39:49.440
But now it's two visions, which is division.

00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:51.840
The word division means two visions.

00:39:52.000 --> 00:40:02.079
So I'm realizing the division comes from me not owning the responsibility to continue to clarify, to have the conversations, to talk about our culture, you know.

00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:02.960
That's so good.

00:40:03.119 --> 00:40:05.760
And that's that's that's the responsibility that we have.

00:40:06.239 --> 00:40:09.599
That goes to the most important thing a leader can do it, and that's provide clarity.

00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:10.480
That's really good.

00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:17.039
Like that clarity of vision is essential for a leader to provide and share with their team.

00:40:17.119 --> 00:40:19.519
That team wants to know where are we going?

00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:20.960
And also roles.

00:40:21.119 --> 00:40:22.320
What is my role?

00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:25.280
How can I contribute to this vision every single day?

00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:32.239
When people don't have a clear path to how they contribute to the vision and the mission, you have a lot of disengagement.

00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:34.719
And then you start to have misery on the job.

00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:34.960
Right.

00:40:35.119 --> 00:40:38.159
When people know they're contributing to it, engagement source.

00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:38.639
True.

00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:41.440
So as a leader, provide the clarity, provide the vision.

00:40:41.679 --> 00:40:44.159
The hope is though, we can get better.

00:40:44.320 --> 00:40:44.559
Yes.

00:40:44.639 --> 00:40:44.800
Yes.

00:40:45.039 --> 00:40:53.519
In other words, we we don't have to just say, you know what, my team is terrible, my my ministry's terrible, my my everything.

00:40:53.679 --> 00:40:59.519
We we we can we can actually be proactive and say, you know what, I'm gonna grow here.

00:40:59.599 --> 00:41:02.880
I want to, I wanna I want to be better.

00:41:03.039 --> 00:41:08.960
And I really believe that people today are smarter than we give them credit.

00:41:09.039 --> 00:41:13.519
So in your ministry, your business, whatever, they're not, they're they're not, they're not dumb, right?

00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:18.079
And they they listen to you, but they want to go see your team.

00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:21.920
Like your team actually is the reflection of how good a leader you are.

00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:23.840
That's why I'm so grateful for that.

00:41:24.079 --> 00:41:24.320
That's good.

00:41:24.559 --> 00:41:25.519
Your team is is that fruit.

00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:26.400
They are that fruit.

00:41:26.719 --> 00:41:30.719
And if you're not investing in that route, that's exactly right, you're not gonna great get a great supply of fruit.

00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:31.280
It's true.

00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:38.719
And I love that because you know you meet a lot of people and you don't know if they're a great leader or not because you haven't seen their team.

00:41:38.800 --> 00:41:39.119
It's true.

00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:40.239
And how does their team respond?

00:41:40.480 --> 00:41:43.440
They may speak real well, they may look real good, but go talk to their team.

00:41:43.519 --> 00:41:43.599
Right.

00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:49.199
That's why I love sports, because when you watch sports, you can see you're gonna find out right away.

00:41:49.679 --> 00:41:51.199
The world is watching you on TV.

00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:52.639
What kind of team do you have?

00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:55.280
Yeah, most corporations, people are not seeing it, they don't know.

00:41:56.239 --> 00:42:04.079
But you watch sports, you can tell whether that team has chemistry, whether they're connected, whether the leader has done a good job, whether they have buy-in, whether they like each other.

00:42:04.239 --> 00:42:05.920
Yep, you can tell all of that.

00:42:06.159 --> 00:42:10.559
And and I I I've been I've been saying this a lot lately with with these teams.

00:42:10.639 --> 00:42:17.280
It's like if your team isn't good, it's either they suck or you suck as a leader.

00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:19.920
Is it okay to say suck as well?

00:42:20.880 --> 00:42:23.519
But yeah, but you're but yeah, either they suck or you suck.

00:42:23.599 --> 00:42:29.920
Either way, you need to improve as a leader or you need a tool to help your team improve.

00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:32.400
But but either way, improvement is needed.

00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:33.840
And perhaps it's both.

00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:34.800
Yeah, it's a good both.

00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:35.760
Let's talk about both.

00:42:36.079 --> 00:42:40.800
Because there, and I could say that knowing there was a time when my team at home was really struggling.

00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:44.400
And I looked at my team, I said, I want a different team.

00:42:44.639 --> 00:42:45.840
I called them Billy Donovan.

00:42:46.079 --> 00:42:47.440
Billy, have you ever wanted a different team?

00:42:47.599 --> 00:42:50.639
Yeah, and Billy Donovan's the coach of the Oklahoma City Thunder at the time.

00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:52.559
He's like, Yeah, I wanted a different team at times.

00:42:52.639 --> 00:42:54.880
He goes, But John, you have the team you have for a reason.

00:42:54.960 --> 00:42:56.320
They're meant to make you a better leader.

00:42:56.480 --> 00:42:56.880
That's good.

00:42:57.039 --> 00:43:06.800
And so at the end of that year, after wanting a different team and deciding to commit to my team to make them better and really be engaged and be a servant leader.

00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:10.400
I changed as a parent that year, changed as a husband, became a servant leader.

00:43:10.559 --> 00:43:13.119
At the end of the year, I realized I didn't need a different team.

00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:14.480
I needed to become a better leader.

00:43:14.719 --> 00:43:15.119
That's really good.

00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:16.400
I was the one who sucked.

00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:16.639
Yeah.

00:43:16.800 --> 00:43:20.400
And now my team is doing so much better because I poured it to them and I invested in them.

00:43:20.559 --> 00:43:24.239
Going back to the very beginning of our conversation, you said, how come they don't see it?

00:43:24.880 --> 00:43:30.400
We need leaders to be able to talk to their teams and say, how am I doing on a scale of one to ten?

00:43:31.199 --> 00:43:33.360
How committed am I am I to you?

00:43:33.679 --> 00:43:36.320
On a scale of one to ten, how well do I connect with you?

00:43:36.480 --> 00:43:40.559
On a scale of one to ten, how well do I communicate with you?

00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:44.800
And some people will tell you what you want to hear, some will tell you what you need to hear.

00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:51.920
And the leaders I've had do this at the highest level, their teams come back and report, and it makes them better.

00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:52.079
Yeah.

00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:54.079
If we're open to the feedback.

00:43:54.239 --> 00:43:56.559
Or what's it like to be led by me?

00:43:56.800 --> 00:43:56.960
Yes.

00:43:57.119 --> 00:43:57.920
But I love the one to ten.

00:43:58.079 --> 00:43:59.679
I'll say to my wife on a scale of one to ten.

00:43:59.920 --> 00:44:01.119
How much do you like to be married to me?

00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:01.840
That's always dangerous.

00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:02.480
Yeah, yeah.

00:44:02.639 --> 00:44:03.840
Buckle up, you said it.

00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:07.199
No, I did, I did that with my senior team, and then I got some of them.

00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:10.960
I'm like, I need to figure out how to get the this was an anonymous one.

00:44:11.119 --> 00:44:15.679
I'm like, surely I can find out so they'll call the company and find out who because I need to know who said this.

00:44:16.480 --> 00:44:23.119
Mine was, one of mine was is when I overreact, um, I learned in the process it's related to fear.

00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:23.599
Yes.

00:44:23.920 --> 00:44:26.960
And and the one of the fears I have is people being hurt.

00:44:27.199 --> 00:44:35.119
So for me with my team, they would take it as I was reacting to them, but I was actually reacting to the behavior that we might exhibit that could hurt other people.

00:44:35.599 --> 00:44:48.880
And that helped us as a team by me willing being being willing to have some of that evaluation, you know, which I think is I mean, that that that becomes challenging for a lot of leaders to be secure enough to go, let's just really get honest about how we're really true.

00:44:48.960 --> 00:44:51.599
And and that's why I talk about looking in the mirror, right?

00:44:52.239 --> 00:45:00.800
To be a great leader of a great team is really admitting you you're you're the one producing a lot.

00:45:01.119 --> 00:45:06.320
I mean, it's it's coming from you and your perspectives and your attitude and who you are, and we just have to own it.

00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:07.599
So, John, thank you.

00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:09.039
Thank you for writing this book.

00:45:09.280 --> 00:45:12.800
I know I know you'll you'll start to speak more and more on it.

00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:16.079
Yeah, and we're looking forward to having you in January at the leaders' gathering.

00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:20.159
And I'm gonna have you the team concept is gonna be our whole theme.

00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:25.360
So I'm asking every pastor, every church teams, you their youth teams, their children's teams.

00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:25.840
Great.

00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:30.960
We we we just that's when they come and we just serve them and give them tools.

00:45:31.119 --> 00:45:35.119
But this is gonna be our theme, team leadership for our January game.

00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:39.760
And I I love talking about this topic, my favorite topic I've ever talked about.

00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:51.679
Like I get passionate, I get excited because when we get a team to commit together and we talk about the commitment to staying positive, the commitment to getting better, didn't share all that we're gonna talk about.

00:45:51.920 --> 00:45:55.679
But when we do that, man, and you see everyone's eyes open.

00:45:56.000 --> 00:45:56.719
Light up, yeah.

00:45:56.960 --> 00:46:02.800
And everyone knows we're not doing that, and we need to do that because everyone talks about goals today, right?

00:46:02.960 --> 00:46:03.360
Outcomes.

00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:04.800
No, let's talk about commitments.

00:46:05.039 --> 00:46:05.440
It's really good.

00:46:05.760 --> 00:46:07.599
Commitments lead you to your goals, right?

00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:08.239
It's really good.

00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:09.280
You have a vision, great.

00:46:09.360 --> 00:46:09.840
You have a vision.

00:46:09.920 --> 00:46:13.920
We need to share the vision, but it's your commitment that will lead you to realizing the vision.

00:46:14.559 --> 00:46:21.360
So we need commitment, and this is gonna teach every pastor how to build a team that is committed to each other.

00:46:21.760 --> 00:46:23.039
It's gonna be a great, great time.

00:46:23.199 --> 00:46:23.840
Thank you, my friend.

00:46:24.079 --> 00:46:24.239
Thank you.

00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:24.960
Thanks for having us.

00:46:25.119 --> 00:46:25.920
Well, I want to thank you both.

00:46:26.079 --> 00:46:29.039
I feel like we got better as a team as a result of this conversation.

00:46:29.199 --> 00:46:34.480
We hope you'll join us all at the lead to win gathering January 6th and 7th, where we're gonna learn more from these guys.

00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:35.840
Thank you so much for joining us.

00:46:35.920 --> 00:46:37.280
We'll see you next time.

00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:43.760
I want to say thank you for checking out this episode of the Lead to Win podcast.

00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:54.639
I want you to know that I love and my team loves getting this kind of content into your life so it can help you lead and win at what matters most.

00:46:54.960 --> 00:47:08.320
So I'd love for you to do me a favor like, comment, especially subscribe if you would, so that we can make sure that we're able to get to you some of the things that are gonna help you lead to win.