How Secure Leaders Help Others Thrive with Steve Robinson

0:00 At the end of the day, my race is not against you. What gives you confidence, security and really an internal wholeness where it's like, hey, I'm not looking to my right, I'm not looking to my left, I am looking forward and again I can learn from you, but I have to run against my own potential. I want to welcome you to the Lead to Win podcast and I want to tell you the purpose behind this podcast is that we all want to win in the areas that we feel like we have assignments or callings to. But a lot of times a little inspiration, a little coaching, learning from someone else's mistakes or failures can help us win, not just at the things that we see in front of us, but also winning in the areas that really are going to matter to us most for the long haul.

0:55 That's good. It's really getting a longer view and I have with us for this episode not really a guest episode, not really a guest I want you to kind of come into our relationship because Pastor Steve Robinson is more than just a pastor in my life, an inspiration. He's five years older than me Now I know he looks younger but, he's five years older than me but he's also been. I have two sisters, so he's been like that older brother, you know, beating me up at times, you know challenge me, inspiring me, but really I have to say, somebody that's really really celebrated my successes and helped me become better and really, at the end of the day, we can talk a little bit about the dynamic of our relationship, but really we're also just really good friends.

1:44 But I also want you to know what he stewards, because I know a lot of times when I hear the introduction of someone it's not just about talking about all their accomplishments. I know what you steward and who you are and the things that God's done in your life. But I think it helps people who don't know you maybe to listen a little bit more intently. You are a pastor, you are a husband, you're a dad of four children, you have a son-in-law. Of course, we've been at each other's kids' weddings. You know all these moments we've celebrated together. But you, pastor, church of the King, you have six locations across the Gulf Coast region and you're starting a seventh location, your first international location, in Cape Town, south Africa.

2:33 But I do want all the listeners to know this because, isn't it interesting? You, being from the greater New Orleans area, went to Tulane University. You finished your master's degree as well, finished your seminary degree and then we did our doctorate together. That's right, right, but you, you spend a lot of your time at Tulane and then a little time at New Orleans Baptist Seminary, and and and grew up and spent a lot of time, and now pastor on the North shore of New Orleans. Right, I find it interesting because of our relationship, how, so many times whether it be Katrina, so many movies you're here sharing with our church at our prepare, we're going to speak to some leaders and just last week we had this event.

3:17 It's interesting, but many years ago, during Katrina, you guys purchased a building right on St Charles Avenue and this year we're going to open that building. Finally. Finally, finally, as one of your favorite messages. I think it's the longest building project in the history of American Christianity. Now I don't know if there's like a chart out there, but no, it's been a long and you guys have been a part of that as a church and, jeff, thank you for having me on the podcast. We're excited to be here. I do want to echo our friendship over the years. It's just been an encouragement to me. I know you call me Pastor Truth, as we're brothers where you've inspired me, helped me.

3:57 We've walked together, laughed together, cried together, gone through a lot and just really encouraged and been there for one another. But yes, specifically related to New Orleans, this year we're opening up. It'll be our eighth campus downtown New Orleans, st Charles Avenue, right in the heart of the city. Recently, of course, the tragic event that took place on Bourbon Street Right, 14 people lost their lives, 30 are still injured and recovering. But you guys in Milestone Church have been a great part of really sowing into that and believing with us, and so we're excited. Can't wait to have you come speak there. Yeah, and we've had a lot of pastors around the body of Christ because obviously you're.

4:38 You know you have a campus in Gulfport, you have a campus in Atlanta just in your region, but this is really like for the body of Christ. I've been championing that to the body of Christ because I think certain areas San Francisco, new Orleans these harder to reach areas with prayer. I would ask all the listeners, like we should be praying for the launch of that and we've given financially, and I think it's something that we all need to rally behind because we don't want to let a city like New Orleans be given to the hands of the enemy. There's a lot of people to reach there and again I want to say thank you for how much you've prayed and believed and given towards that.

5:18 You know, god, I grew up in New Orleans. I grew up in that side. I was asked to go across the lake. Initially it was like 35 miles north of New Orleans. It's the longest bridge, matter of fact, I think, in the world. It's 24 miles the Causeway Bridge and we started in 1999. Jennifer and I were sent I was 30 years old across the lake. I was in youth ministry, preaching to kids in high schools and always had a heart for the city of New Orleans, matter of fact, and I asked my pastor who sent me at the time. I said I'd like to come back to New Orleans at some point in time and he said, absolutely, I know that's what your heart is, and so our quote broadcast location is in Mandeville, which is a suburb north, and at the end of 2025, we'll be moving into our St Charles campus.

6:01 Thank you for your prayers, your love, your support, but I'm excited about you. I'm excited about what God's doing with you Milestone Church and I love this whole concept of lead to win Right and the concept that you've, you know, god has really given you branded on your heart, because you've been someone that has championed pastors and leaders and really teaching them what winning is really about and how to win at the right places in the right areas. So many people. You know we define winning differently than the secular culture, the kingdom of God, jesus lovers, jesus followers, and so thank you for this podcast and as this develops, and I'm excited, to see what happens. So the concept you and I have talked about it so many times, right and a lot of our worlds, because we're such close friends, intermesh I mean our staffs know each other friends.

6:51 We love to encourage and help leaders, pastors We've hunted all over the world together, fished our business guys and we talk a lot about when you've been a pastor for as many years as we have, right, and you've interacted with so many people from different walks of life. Everybody has a scoreboard. That's right. They all have a scoreboard and the challenge is sometimes you can get a lot of points on a scoreboard and then realize I played the wrong game. My first question for you is like what is winning really? from a biblical understanding. What does it mean to win? If someone's out there, I feel like I'm losing right, or maybe I want it something, but I still feel unfulfilled Right?

7:34 What is winning? You know, from a biblical concept, winning is. It's a term in the Bible. I think a lot of people don't realize that they're like. Well, you know, should we win as Christians? Well, Paul is very clear in 1 Corinthians 9, run in such a way that you win. The question is, who are you running against? That's really good, and the reality is for Christ's followers. Our race is not against our neighbor, our race is against our own potential. So good, and that's the grid that I see, this whole thing I see. So we want to win. What do we want to win in? We want to win in the areas that matter most to God the kingdom of God, scripture. But our race is against our potential. You know, I have a stewardship mindset through and I really view Matthew 25 as the grid.

8:20 You know, one had this many talents, the other had this, of course, in Bible times. I know it relates to monetary value, but also it also relates to our gifts, talents and abilities. It can be applied there. And so the question is am I doing with what God has given me and maximizing that to the fullest? If I do, one day I'm going to stand before the Lord. Well done by good and what Faithful. Have I been faithful with what God's given me. To me that's winning in the kingdom. It's really a theme right through scripture, because in Genesis you know, take care of the garden and then it just builds up. And Matthew 25 is that New Testament picture. Okay. But I heard you say something Someone else doesn't have to lose in the kingdom for me to win.

9:03 It's not. There's one, you know, one pie and I got to hide it from my siblings because there's only one or two pieces left. In God's kingdom there's abundance and I'm not having to have someone else lose. How does that impact? Because you and I okay in our worlds. I want to hone in on something that I just I felt when you and I were going to do this. It's like I wish they could get us like at a, you know, in an informal setting and just because we joke with each other, we love each other. But obviously both of us leaders and we know we're old enough now to we know each other's strengths and weaknesses. Enough now to you we know each other's strengths and weaknesses.

9:48 We joke you're, I have strategy. You're the most strategic person I've ever met. In fact, we could do a whole nother podcast that's why I have a counselor. You don't, you know what? I'm saying high strategic people. Oh, they're thinking through things. That's why they're a wreck emotionally at times, but anyway so maybe you're enjoying life. Maybe we could do a podcast and you could organize all the listeners' lives. That's right, you could. That would be part two Sequel, sequel, sequel. Part two. And so we'll go to an event. One of our favorite stories to tell is we'll go to an event and when we're pulling up I'll be like tell me if there's anything I should be nervous about, because I know you've already thought about it, looked over the schedule. I'm just going to hang out with you which you exactly say here's what you say. You say, hey, if any point in time that I should be nervous or anxious, just let me know. Until then, I'm going to enjoy myself, which I do.

10:29 Let you know, Jeff, this is a big deal. You should be really concerned. You should be concerned. Okay, all right. But what you're saying and this is important for leaders highly competitive in their inclinations, their design, and so they want to win. And the problem is is that your competition really isn't your neighbor. And if you see, your, it's not that we can't be inspired by others, it's not that we can't learn. I mean, my gosh, you have a whole ministry where you're equipping and inspiring leaders. Best practices we can learn, we can glean, but at the end of the day, my race is not against you. What gives you confidence, security and really an internal wholeness where it's like, hey, I'm not looking to my right, I'm not looking to my left, I am looking forward and, again, I can learn from you.

11:19 But I have to run against my own potential. And leaders are just I mean, they're just so dominated by competition, Right, they can't celebrate. See, here's the thing. That's it. If your race is against somebody else when they're doing well, you can't celebrate their wins, you can't celebrate. That's the issue. How do you? celebrate somebody that's beating you. Right If you look at it that way and, quite honestly, most leaders along the way find themselves. They talk about being lonely at the top. This is one of the root causes. This is a serious core issue to it. It's a major major reason why. And then you find yourself I don't have anybody to call and celebrate. I can't tell you how many successful business people leaders, pastors, and it's like you go around the world. They want to show you and talk about it because they don't have any friends that are like calling on Sunday afternoon.

12:09 Hey, how was church? What happened? We've done that for years. Right, and I think mindset is so important here, perspective and mindset. By the way, when I think of mindset, perspective and mindset I almost use interchangeably. Again, how are you viewing your calling? How are you viewing your leadership? How are you viewing what God's called the assignment you use that word the assignment that God has for your life? Again, other pastors in your area, other pastors or leaders around the country, we can learn, we can glean, we want to employ best practices, but, at the end of the day, you have a unique context. You're a unique person. You have unique experiences. You have different demographic people, different sociological aspects in the environment that you're in. You want to run your race well, which means 1 Corinthians 9,.

12:50 I'm running against my assignment, my potential, what God's called me to do, and that's what we're going to give to God one day. Here's the thing, jeff At the end of the day, I'm running towards that goal. What goal, what goal, steve? Well done by good and faithful. That's the end of the day. I'm running towards that goal. What goal, what goal, steve? Well done by good and faithful. That's the end game, that's the end game. I've been able to celebrate you. I mean Milestone Church, I believe, is one of the greatest churches in the nation. You guys are exploding, you're growing, you're reaching people, you're making disciples, but you're uniquely called for this area and you've got a great assignment in this and you're multiple, so I can rejoice in that. Yeah, I know this is easier said than done, but it can happen We'll talk about, though.

13:34 Also, once you let that guard down, yep, what really happens is you're also able to receive from the complimentary gift that that person is, and that's what you also lose. You not only lose the friendship, the relationship, you also lose what you can receive. So Milestone Church wouldn't be what it is but without your investment. You were there when we were in the cafetorium. Big chains back there, jeff. Big place. You came to the cafetorium. We're preaching and the Cokes are actually coming out of the machine. Baby. People are getting a. Coke. People are getting a Coke while you're preaching, while we're preaching, exactly yeah. And so you've been there at every step along the way, but you were someone, again me being willing, and I want to say this, maybe to someone this is very unique to us but early on I realized we're going to be friends, but you also have a role with me, to where you've been a big brother, a spiritual leader of voice Right, so I think you have to also determine.

14:33 a lot of people out there say, hey, I want to coach, right, but this is not in the Bible. But it is an ancient proverb, right, that the teacher, when the pupil is ready, the teacher appears right. So it's, how willing are you to receive from that? So early on I was like, okay, now, when you're speaking to me through that lens, it's really my job to position my heart to receive, and then that frees you up to be able to be in a more friendship and relationship role. So I think what you're talking about is really its perspective, how you view your race, and really the internal security that somebody has to have Internal security. If they're insecure, they're protecting and I'm going to use this concept it's used a lot, but it's important A scarcity versus an abundance mindset.

15:17 That's not just talking about resources and money, it's true. It's talking about relationships, but it's talking about relationships Because you have an abundance mindset. God's a big God. There's more than enough around God. There's more people to reach. Your internal security has allowed you to be vulnerable, allowed you to get coached. You used to show up at our staff meetings At five years old. You'd be like my baby, no, like no offense With no invitation. Invitation Uninvited no yes, like uninvited, I still call my own invited. I was like I'm doing our staff in Louisiana, new Orleans area. I'm like Jeff, what are you doing here? I'm like a yellow pad. I'm like Jeff, you like you have to call and tell. Like we have assistants, we have second what's up? But but I think it was the internal security and there's so many.

15:58 My heart breaks for pastors and leaders because if you're insecure, you're hiding, you're protecting you can't be open to coaching and to leadership with others. So I think it's number one, I think it's your perspective of what your race is and who it's against. You've always seen that you're going to develop your potential. Number two you have to have an internal level of security that you're able to be coached, that you're hungry, and so I love how you've modeled that over the years it goes back to winning in areas that matter most. Okay, question I get that, but I'm alone. I get that, but the people I love the most aren't celebrating.

16:39 I want a leader out there to get a thought that if they'll transition to I'm not competing, this can change your dynamic with siblings, with friends. It's a game changer. It's a game changer. I'm moving toward my potential. And what if it was possible to have both? I know we say have it all. We technically can't have it all, but I think we can have a greater level of the holistic winning. Yes, holistic winning. Like I didn't just score the touchdown, my teammates were glad I made it into the end zone. You know your team, your friends. What would you say, though? I know you've given the concept, but practically, a leader out there who goes, I'm just by myself, I've just kind of maybe somehow I've gravitated over here into isolation what can they practically?

17:32 Let me give you a couple of things and I'm gonna go back to you. Number one you gotta be willing to show up. So when you say I'm going to show up at a staff meeting, okay, here's what you're saying, all right. You're saying I'm going to risk being rejected. I'm going to risk Steve turning around and going bro, this is like too much. So you have to be willing. Number one you've got to be willing to risk rejection in relationships, it's really true. Number two you've got to be willing to celebrate the person's environment that you're going into Again, as a leader. The reason why we're alone sometimes is we immediately diminish somebody that we're trying to get close to. Yeah, well, they're not good at this. Well, they don't do small groups. Well, their church is not this. Well, the reason why? they have this, In other words, number one you've got to go in and be willing to risk.

18:12 Number two you've got to be willing to celebrate who wants to allow close to them. That's going to be quote picked apart. That's right. So you're a celebrator man. This is awesome. So that makes somebody open. Pastors that are alone are critics. It's very true. They're critics. And, by the way, I'm not suggesting that you can't have analysis and you cannot be analytical but a critical spirit. Nobody's going to let you get close to them. They want you to allow them to celebrate what they're doing. You're going to come into my world, right? You're going to show up in risk and then you're going to tear me down. I don't want to be close to you. That's so good. I was like bro, no offense, stay back in Texas.

18:54 It's an age-old thing you reap what you sow, right? I mean you know that. Being willing to say, hey, what can I do, you actually taught me this years ago. I'm going to jump to it I know where you're going with this because it's big. Be more interested than interesting. That's right. How many leaders do you sit with and they talk about them, about what they're doing? Tell me about your world. What is your big? I just I just I just yesterday sat down with, for whatever these words mean. Right, you know popular, famous this, but you know one of the one, a national person who speaks to lots of people, yeah, and I, and I did what you, years ago, told me that.

19:39 And at the end of the conversation which I'm, I'm just really amazed by what they're doing in the conversation, I said what do you really care about right now? What are you really trying to do? And they told me about some project, but they had handed that off. And then they said I care about my. I've got, I've got twin girls and I've never sent a kid to college. Wow. And so I started saying how can I invest in that? And I helped her and I knew some people and we got and we helped a deal and alleviated a pressure. They broke down crying. This is a person that speaks to thousands, breaks down emotionally and says I'm never at a loss for words. Wow, the impact you make when you celebrate and care about somebody else.

20:23 I mean and I learned that from you. Well, jeff, again, be willing to risk. Let's just put it down. Be willing to risk. We're making this up, but it's in us. So it's like be willing to risk. I'm going to. If you get an invite, come. Yeah, so be willing to risk. Number two celebrate the person and the environment you're going into. Yes, and the environment you're going into. Don't carry a critical spirit in there. There you go. Any pastor walks in. Well, we do this better. Well, our worship's better, we're better. Okay great. But if that leader that you're coming into the environment senses that I'm telling you they're going to keep a wall up. You never did that. Number three add value to the person and the environment you're coming into. Add value to them, help them, encourage them. What can you bring, what can you do?

21:03 How can you see the best and invest in them? And you've done all of these things. At that point in time, that leader, I'm telling you they're wide open. So, leaders that are lonely number one they don't risk relationship, they're waiting for people to come to them rather than showing up. Number two they're insecure and critical of the environment, so they're going. Some people are walled up with there. Number three they don't add value, they extract value. Pastor you saying, if you're a young leader, so are you. I want to be clear. By the way, john Maxwell taught this as a young leader, he would go. He would interview people in his twenties. He would risk it and make the big ask and bring a gift. He'd bring a pen bring something that he knew was important to them.

21:44 To show up, I need 30 minutes of your time, or an hour of your time to mentor me. I'm going to bring this, I'm going to show value, I'm going to risk. I'm not going to criticize you. Next thing, you know, everybody wants to be John's friends and everybody wants to be your friend. Yeah, you embody that job. So that's so good. I think that's another thing you touched on. Oh well, that's easy for you to have that conversation now. Right, it's the same thing we tell our, we tell business leaders, and when we teach about you know, oh well, well, yeah, when I get rich, then I'm going to be real generous. Then I'm going to give. When I win the lottery, then I'm going to tie. No, you won't. No, no, you won't. You can't give a dollar off a 10. You're not going to give $100,000 off of a million.

22:25 It's the same thing with a leader. Same principle Add value, be willing to risk, and you know what? Oh, by the way, you're going to enter into some relationships and guess what? You will be rejected, it's true, so not everybody's going to go. You're amazing, we were waiting for you and so, as a young leader, be willing to show up. Be willing to celebrate the environment and the leader that you're going into, add value to them, bring something, a nice little thing, a thought. I'm not talking about some big monetary thing, but just a gift, something to show. Thank you for your time. I'm interested, I'm concerned, and can I go to this? Yeah, you for your time. I'm interested, I'm concerned and you, can I go to this? I think it's important. I've always taught this be more interested, like you said, be more interested than interesting.

23:08 There you go. I make a leader talk about themselves. Steve, tell me about what you're going to tell me. It's not that I don't ever get to him, but I'm going to make. Can I just give a personal? grievance here just for a moment. Yes, please. A leader that cannot get into somebody else's world. Well, you don't understand. I'm visionary, I don't care Right, push into their world, tell me about your church, tell me about your family. Tell me about your kids, tell me about it's endearing. It's endearing. It's endearing and it's not like a strategy. It's called kingdom, it's called loving people, it's called adding value to people. And so you're going to the root issue of why leaders are so lonely they're waiting for people to come to them.

23:52 They won't risk. They're insecure. They won't celebrate other people's environments. They're critical of everything that's going on. By the way, Jeff, God's blessing a lot of churches and a lot of styles Bible preaching churches. Very true, Very true. So that's one of the things that there's a lot of different ways to do it, it's true. So, I'm sorry if I'm talking too much. No, I love it. You got me rolling man. This is kind of and I think that I'm thinking about that person out there who might say I'm going to step out and risk it, I'm going to come to our lead. We have every year in January. We have a gathering where we bring leaders in and we're trying to like downplay some of the conference style. So we have some round tables things ways.

24:33 You know where I'm going with this. I got up it was a couple years ago. Last year we kind of called it a round table. There's 1,500 people or 2,000 people. We're trying to kill the conference vibe, because I mean we're trying to do less sessions and more discussions, and so I'd kept it as a roundtable and so you get up to speak, okay. I would have personally liked you to say Jeff Little is an amazing leader and God has invited me here to share my great wisdom and my global ministry brand. And instead you said there's nothing around in here and there's no tables, so you need to run that back through your branding department, your little branding department.

25:14 Actually, again, I felt it was in a transition. Then you said, put my time back on because that's not coming out of my speaking. You're not going to quench me with a little clock when I'm adding value to you. Again, what I love about you have to step out. right, you have to step out. Come to some Come to some Find somewhere. It doesn't matter what the connection or trap, but come and put yourself out there a little bit. You're going to feel insecure. How big is their church? What are they doing and you know what? That doesn't stop by how big your church is. You can still be critical. You can still evaluate.

25:54 So we're not doing what we do, even for the applause of people, that's right. It's for the applause of people, that's right. It's for the applause of heaven. By the way, sometimes the loneliest people around are people that are pastoring large churches. Because they feel like the only person I can learn from is somebody who has a larger church. So let's just take that out, it's not true? Let's just kind of logically so the only person you can submit to, the only person you can learn from, is somebody who has a larger church than you. Is that really? I know there's dynamics and all that with staffing, but be careful of that. You'll end up alone. Yeah, you will. You'll end up alone, it's true. And the thing that I love about you, jeff, it doesn't matter if your church had 1,000 or 2,000 or 5,000 or 10,000 or whatever you guys have. You've always had a hungry heart to learn. You've always been willing to risk.

26:35 You've had an internal security where you're going to celebrate the environment that you're going into. You've always brought value to people and I think we're at a crossroads with leaders today because we've got a lot of here it is. We've got a lot of access to information, but we're really low on relationship. It's the Facebook thing, Friends come on. It's the same thing with pastors. So what I see is I see this kind of this graph where there's an access to information at an all-time high. People can get podcasts, people can get anything Okay, people can get sermons, they can have friends on social media, but you've got to have presence, you've got to connect. That's what I love about the Lead to Win Conference whatever you want to call it and Milestone Church.

27:20 Thank you for opening the doors. It's a lot of work what you guys are doing. Thank you for making yourself availing. We want to learn from Milestone Church. Hey, by the way, and I want to say this so why are there several thousand kids coming to youth group on a Wednesday night? What is God? Because there is a value in learning, structure and strategy. There is. We can't deny that, and we do want to learn best practices. We do want to learn how you guys following up. So there's, I'm not diminishing that at all. I want to learn that and we're here at that because we have our, our, our church does a fasting and prayer time and you're speaking to our church, which you're on my board, and we're close and our church loves to hear from you. You have more points than I do.

28:01 I tell more jokes and they're like finally somebody that's like explaining what they're saying. But you were tweaking my point. You got my message. I was trying to adjust my point. It can get a little heady right? Just let my points be my points. I do a few points and more jokes. They remember how much you made them laugh. That's true, laugh. They don't remember your points. People know how you made them feel, not what you've taught them to know. Whatever the thing, is. So you're speaking to the church, but then, at this gathering, actually, I'm talking about bones and breath. Right, so the bones are. Yeah, how do you learn how to have this many kids at the youth group and serve them and disciple them, or whatever it is? But what we're talking about today, too, is an element of Milestone Church.

28:45 I pastor in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, okay, so I moved here. It's like there's all these churches. We're talking today, though, about something in the breath of me supernaturally being connected to someone and again, thank God for his grace, I'm not sitting here but being curious and learning and your insights, and I'm always listening having someone outside your environment, someone that not only is celebrating, which that's about 85 percent, right, it's about 15 percent, hey, you might's about 85%. It's about 15%, hey, you might think about this usually in relationships. I want that for the dad. You should have a small group leader, pastor Doug, who's now on your staff, who discipled me when I was in college.

29:30 Who discipled you when you were in college 37 years ago? Talk about humility, yeah the guy. When you radically got saved, which you have, an amazing testimony. People should go. Steve Rob, by the way, if you, if they want more content messages. Steve Robinsoncom, you're an incredible Bible teacher and one of your stories you always tell us about you had a radical salvation. I grew up in a Christian home and you say I was, like you know, saved from birth. You're like John the Baptist, saved from the mother's womb. I'm like I I. That wasn't my story. Yeah, my teachers that listened to this would be like he wasn't actually that saved because I was torment for a teacher. Let me tell you. But you tell the story about. Then, after you got saved, doug comes. This is back to spiritual relationships and friendship.

30:12 You had to risk it, get saved. Risk it. Go to Doug's small group, pastor Doug Arman, who's on your staff, who works side by side with you today, and you had to submit to that relationship and listen. But then y'all became friends and then think about this he now works with you. That's beautiful. Yeah, I think it's a picture of the kingdom of God, even with our kids. Right? Even with our kids it's reverse mentoring we're raising our kids, we're pouring into them and then, at some point in time, they're pouring into us, they're tweaking us. My son, who's on our staff now. Our two sons before this were telling us don't be teaching too much. Y'all are too he's teaching my son's now telling me your points are a little bit long.

30:53 I'm like bro, like I've been hissing a little bit longer than you, but I get it right. Different generation, different voice, they're telling me I need to wear makeup on Sunday. Okay for the lottery. I'm not doing it. You're a hunter. I will be less, okay. I cannot stand in the foyer of our church in Dallas-Fort. Worth, you can't do it. The pastor four-year of our church at Dallas-Fort Worth, the pastor's got makeup on. I'm just going to have to be shiny, it ain't going to happen. But again, I want to go back and kind of recap a couple of things. Jeff, about winning and I know that you're going to wrap this up, but you asked me the first question about winning and this is huge. Yeah, because I know we're kind of going towards something here, but winning, this is important.

31:36 When somebody says I want to be the best, this is important. I want everybody to hear me this is really good. The best that's called a definite article. The best means I'm going to be better than everybody else. Yeah, okay, I want to switch the conversation and say I want to be my best. God says you need to be your best. That's good. That's a possessive adjective. Indefinite. Article V possessive adjective, your, your best is your potential so good. And what I love about you is you talk about changing the scoreboard. I want to be the best dad that I can be, Leader all those different things. Husband, I want to be the best dad that I can be, leader, all those different things.

32:18 I want to be holistic. right, it's not winning if I'm by myself in the end zone and there's no team to celebrate and this could affect I mean, as we're talking about it more and more, it can affect sibling relationships. It can affect what you were talking about being reverse mentored to your kids, being humble, to listen, allow them to have voice as they grow up. They're not kids forever. We've transitioned into adult children. Someone should have warned me. I mean, these are needy people. I thought they were more needy when they were babies, I mean, and they got opinions. So like it can affect teams, in fact teams, man. Think about a pastor, me being friends with you, me relating to you, being secure.

33:00 Think about how that postures me too with my team, because then they know, oh, he interacts in that way as well. Just think about the dynamics of that one thought you have not competing with everybody and celebrating others. How that could change so many dynamics. I think for pastors that have that are what have what's called lead teams. I think there's been a shift. This is important. I want to say two things. There's been a shift where a senior pastor has an assistant pastor. In essence, old school thinking is who basically does whatever the pastor can't get to? Okay, that's like the typical. That's the assistant pastor. The pastor's busy, he doesn't have time to do that.

33:42 Ie, if he did, he'd be able to do that, right. Okay, an executive team model is where a pastor has people around him that are actually gifted in areas he's not. Yeah, so I think that that's the ability to celebrate. So when somebody understands their call, their assignment, their races against their potential, their church is unique. Again, preach the word, the scripture, all that Orthodox theology, but at the same time, there's people around them and this is how you have good team members, right? So if your team member is around the table simply because they're doing things you can't get to, versus they're doing things you're not gifted to do, there's a big difference, which is going to require celebrating and being secure enough to listen to their input.

34:25 Yeah, that's right, but those are friendship skills too. I just think growing in friendship and relationship and these dynamics can just impact so many areas of your life. Well, lonely leaders. Leaders are lonely and again, I think it goes back to how they view others, how they view themselves. Leaders are, I mean, burning out, crashing out, browning out, everything out, getting out, getting out, and so much of it goes back to they're lonely in relationship. They are. You know how many times we've celebrated. We have a good friend of ours and this was really a wonderful thing, he said, but also a scary snapshot on the body of Christ. He opened up a campus.

35:05 They did amazing and he shot me the numbers and said man, would you rejoice with me in this? And. I said absolutely, I'm so thrilled and he said thank you for rejoicing with me in this campus launch. It made me indictment on the body of Christ that we can't celebrate. Yes, we learn Gosh? do I have to go through the drill again? Yes, we're inspired. Yes, we learn. Yes, we're competitive by nature.

35:47 But oh, man, we have an assignment Right. You know where his church is? I know, you know where they are, you know where I am. Yeah, yeah, so you've got to be willing to do it. I know who he is, yeah. You've got to be willing to celebrate wins man with other friends. How many? pastors Actually you and him if we're going to be transparent on this podcast. Wait be careful because he don't use his name. We don't use his name. Christmas services I'm trying to keep my faith up and y'all did a text thread saying that y'all watched my first service and y'all were trying to get me to come down and do a makeover on me. No, your pocket square was. It was too loud. I'm serious, and the two of you are thin.

36:27 You look like little golfers, you know. Look, I'm a Texas man. I'm comfortable with what I was wearing. But I was trying to speaking of security. I'm trying to stand out in front of people, be jolly be. Christmas I thought my pocket square was amazing until you told me it wasn't. It was happy. It was overly happy, it was overly excited. We're like brother, we got to lower it down a little bit, you said, I got my shoes at some one-off store. No, and again the relationship. Jeff, you're easy to be a friend with and I wish other pastors out there had that. They can have that yeah they can they can have that. Here's the thing. Don't throw in the towel.

37:08 Everybody's against me, right? Nobody's for me? Yeah, it's going to be my wife and I and Jesus. Well, you're just strange and you're hurt by the way. That person that says that is hurt. They're hurt. They've been hurt by maybe trying to have a friend in the congregation or something, and every time we've seen that. But you can't have some friends in the congregation? You can. I have friends in the congregation. What I'm saying is something happened though. And every time that leader makes that choice, we have seen that environment get toxic. But the Bible says a man who isolates himself rages against all sound wisdom. That's right. Well, you have been a great big brother, Thank you. My world is better, Honestly who I am.

37:50 And again, maybe episode two you could structure people you have and I want to say this Are you recruiting me for another episode? By the way, Jeff is the best recruiter in the body of Christ. Okay, I've already signed you to multiple episode deal. Church of the King is going to become milestone East, but anyway, go ahead. But I think you have one of the greatest strategic gifts too just to see the end, better than anyone I know. So it's helped me see further, believe for more. It can be slightly tormenting from time to time, but because I know we're called together, it's made me better and I want you to know that and I think that's back to the breath.

38:32 There's an ethos at Milestone that people don't know a lot of times. It's more than the preaching. There's a, there's a ethos at milestone that people don't know a lot of times. It's more than the preaching. It's more than the youth ministry. It's a relational dynamic of of you and I and some other relationships and friendships and spiritual relationships. We have that that. I just want that for people. I just want that for them. I want to. I want to end with this because I think it's important Again. I've been a pastor to you for 25 years, Our church. In so many areas you know you've modeled and kind of shot for doing the last number of years, God has just supernaturally blessed your church. It's incredible, the church that God's called you to pastor and it's interesting. On our staff I was like guys, go find out what Milestone's doing.

39:19 How are they learning that man? This is so good and it was a little bit of a shift with them because it was like timeout. Milestone looks to us. We're kind of like been the model. No, no, no, we want to learn, we need to humble ourselves, we need to grow and that's even been a transition with us where I think, if you have that heart to learn, to grow, to expand, to be curious. So we're championing you, we're learning from you guys, we're excited about what God's doing with Milestone Church and I want to say this Keep leading, keep serving, keep giving. We're watching. The body of Christ needs a strong, and I do believe God has given you. I got to say this one thing Everybody's in a leadership. Thank God for your pastoral grace and gift.

40:00 And I mean that because and I love leadership you and I write and talk on leadership, but I want to know what it means to be a pastor. People need to know. It's like the returning of the gift of pastor to the body of Christ, like that's in the Bible. Right, we didn't get into becoming, we didn't go into the ministry to be a leader. We wanted to be a pastor or an evangelist. So, thank you, god is using you of kind of, in a sense kind of reawakening in the hearts of younger leaders to say, hey, it's okay to say I'm a pastor, you're leading the way and we're championing and following in so many ways. Thank you so much, man. I'm actually working on a resource called Win, with People Returning to the Call of a Shepherd Wow and so I'm working on for young leaders exploring their call and what does it mean to shepherd?

40:51 Take care of pastor people? We talk about resources all the time. You have a more acute teaching gift. You have a degree in rhetoric, which you say means nothing, but it does make you an incredible teacher and I want to end the session too. Also, you write a lot of resources, but this is your most recent one Decide to Thrive, and I've just been looking over it. I just got it. We just got them, it just came out but. But looking at these decisions we can make, you know, like we, we are the sum total of these decisions that we make, and, and, and I, and I think this would be a great resource and I and you're going to be teaching on it. Steve Robinsoncom, you have other resources, things for pastors, thank you, you for you.

41:36 I like the fact, because I've been receiving from these thoughts for years, but I like now you're also at a phase of your life where you're able to put some of this down on paper. We've talked about this for years the most, the most disempowering place to be is a place of a victim. And when you, this book is all it's six six choices for life change that really make a difference, that really work in your life. And we talk about biblical values and making daily decisions in alignment with biblical values, which is an empowering life. That's good. Victimization is disempowering right, the Bible is empowering, and so this book is. Decide to Thrive six choices for life change that really work. I'm looking forward to it and again, looking forward to the messages you're going to preach out of this because you're going to take your whole church We'll have 10,000 people in small groups in our church going through this curriculum.

42:23 Again, people can get it at SteveRobinsoncom. They can go there. And I will say this last thing too I know you've talked about when is your book coming out on your dissertation? When is your book coming out? I want to make sure we tease that out there. You and I did our doctorate together. My research emphasis was on leadership and trauma. How you know, leaders are traumatized and how do you uh, how does the brain healed through trauma and how to stay in the game as a leader, and so that we we did our entire doctorate together. You got all A's and let's just say I had a good time. No, you got all A's you did, but that book will be my doctoral dissertation in a popular format for leaders. It's your doctoral dissertation on leaders facing trauma I've heard you give that talk in two or three settings.

43:06 Massive impact, I mean, and it isn't always just the leader who's maybe experienced it. I've met a lot of people go well, I had a staff member. People go well, I had a staff member. I had my wife or I had a kid, and they want to know the information to be able to help someone they love too. So it's all the way around. You can be healed from a traumatized brain. You can the power of Christ. Power of Christ. Thank you All right, this has been amazing, awesome.