Earl McClellan on The Power of Honor

0:00 Well, I want to welcome you back to the Lead to Win podcast. We just wrapped an incredible episode with Pastor Earl McClellan. Oh man, I love him. It was hilarious. So funny. I think one of my favorite parts of the whole episode was just seeing two guys. I mean, you're both bald, you know, anointed pastors in our city, but just honestly the friendship that you guys have, you can tell you guys are friends, you're connected, and I just thought hearing his story was so powerful. Oh gosh. Raised by a single mom, you know, if you're not familiar with Earl, senior pastor of Shoreline City Church in Dallas, Texas, multiple campuses, international campuses, but really through the last probably five or six years, probably one of the biggest online, you know, he just really has a broad reach from a preaching perspective.

0:49 I mean, he's preached at the largest churches in the country and is loved by everybody. But I wanted to dig in behind the scenes of childhood, where he how he raised in Providence, Rhode Island, years as an executive pastor. So I think any leader, when you see someone like him who's making the impact that they're making, you're always asking, who is this guy really? Right. Where does he come from? What kind of struggles did he have? I think, and I would encourage everybody, the latter part of what we talked about is so rich. You want to watch every bit of this content. Well, I'm so excited for you get to check out this episode now. Let's tune in right now. Earl, in all good relationships, okay, you always have a defining moment that you look back and go, we were there when that happened.

1:39 Okay. So let me, let me, let me I know where you're going. You know where I'm going. Let me set the stage, okay? And so I had you come and speak at this important event. I had all these leaders gathered. I mean, this is a very important thing, okay? And so you were speaking after we had this prominent man of uh legend. Legend. And to be honest, he was not on the speaking deal. He was not, he was not, he just called me that morning and said, I'm coming. And so he's standing there and he goes, I got some things to share. And I'm like, he's in the category. We go, okay, just get the mic. You think I'm gonna tell you no? Exactly. So he's up there, he's painting this picture of God's kindness.

2:23 I mean, he's using all kinds of metaphors, and he's on his knees. And so it we happened to have a break. Yeah. And what happened at the break? We gave everybody some food. Everybody, this is this was so funny. Everybody has a box lunch on their lap. Okay, so we had just come in from the break. We have the box lunch, and he feels like he has this on his heart, which is beautiful. Again, we're going to defer to you. You're like Moses in our generation. You can have the moment. But we all have our box lunch and we haven't eaten. So all of us are in there. We've opened our box lunches, and there's a sandwich, a chicken sandwich, and there's chips.

3:07 Chips. And we're all we're eating, but he's on his knees, like weeping for the lost. Well, it was it was like the the the you know, humble yourself before God and he will exalt you, you know. And so it was this whole idea of kind of repentance of like a Old Testament prophet like calling people to repentance on his knees weeping. And we have chips in our head, and we're going every time let the tear drop. You hear everybody just eating their food, or like this moment where it's not right.

3:50 Like you're watching a movie, and so of course, you classic style. And see, he, like every prophet, gave his deposit and left out the side door. And so then everybody adjusts like what just happened, and of course, you we were rolling. Earl gets up there. He says, I don't know about y'all, but I mean, I had some real mixed feelings in my soul. It's like this man's pouring his heart out, we're all the my head is hurting right now. I remember that, and I remember looking over at you. You were in the corner there next to your wife. You're dying like crying. I'm crying, and it was like that church laugh where you're gonna get in trouble and it's all bottled up.

4:37 Your shoulders are going. That was a great moment. Okay, so I know people have tuned into the Lead to Win podcast to get some help today, but you and I both know wherever they're listening from in their car or whatever, we could just sit here and tell story after story because we love to laugh. Yeah, we love, I mean, we, you know, it's like I think people take life too serious, quite honestly. Like if you can't laugh at yourself, yeah, if you can't laugh, I mean, for me, a lot of times when it's real painful, the best thing to do is be like laugh at it because human beings by nature are funny. For sure. But I want to I want to talk about you know, our friendship and relationship. I just spoke at your men's event.

5:17 Thank you for coming too. You crushed it. It was it was uh it was just amazing the men that were gathered now. Back to we're gonna get off track. My opening line was the name of your men is lineman. Okay, so I'm standing there worshiping, okay? And I got up and I was like, okay, wait a minute. Earl played point guard in college. I did. He's a free safety or a wide receiver, not even a slot. He ain't even a slot person, okay? Here's I I told him, I was like, since you're gonna call yourself lineman, I want to introduce you. Okay, I play right guard, never got to touch the ball. Okay. I bought it on a fumble.

5:58 Maybe okay, maybe on a fumble, but it's like just hey, do your job. So that's why we had you come in. We hadn't had a men's event. We do the Connect groups, right? We had a men's event for a couple of years, and the guys are really asking for it. And I just was like, man, you know, I don't know. I want it to be right. You know, I don't I want it to feel right, be right, right timing, not because everybody's asking us. And you were the one that needed to be there. This without a shadow of a doubt, the gift that you have, uh not just leadership, pastor, obviously your husband, father, all of those things. But you really have a gifting and an anointing with men, you know, and uh what I loved, my wife and I have talked about this, your ability to connect with the business leader and your ability to connect with the teenager.

6:42 It was it was all of those, you know, and you weren't just focused on one or the other, obviously sharing your story, but you were trying to pull everybody up, yeah. Not trying to get down on whatever level they might be in. Um, it was really remarkable, and the men in our church are so fired up and so thankful. I don't know if I can have anybody else next time. I might have to have you come back. It just was so spot on and exactly what we needed. And you obviously have a great dad feel to you, you have a great strength to you, but you're also so incredibly um wise. And I learned probably some of that is from your dad, you know, having you read Proverbs.

7:25 Um, but there's a lot of wisdom that you have, but you also package it in, hey guys, I'm just like you, and we're all in this together because that's what you genuinely feel. You know, you don't have some like air you're putting on. And it just administered to us deeply, pushed us all forward, pushed me forward and be famous in your own house. I love that line. Uh giving the guys permission to not um chase after money. Right. That was so, so good. I just go down the line, thing after thing after thing, the guys were saying, and I what I felt, even just writing in my own journal, writing in my own notes, like, hey Earl, make sure you stay intentional with your kids. Uh stay very, very intentional.

8:07 I know I'm with them and I'm at the games, and you know, I do all this stuff, but I just want to make sure my heart stayed intentional as well. So you you push this forward. Thank you. That is so that's so encouraging. And and really, that's what this format sort of came out of. And what I'm hearing from a lot of people is, you know, you and I, you know, you, Onika, Brandy, and I love y'all so much. We go out, we you know, we I I think sometimes people wonder what would Earl McClellan and Jeff Little talk about? What would if we got our wives there? What are we talking about? Yeah, and I I thought, what a great format who see people see us in whatever context they see us.

8:47 But what a great format, because if you want to know the truth, I I'm thinking back to at least two times when we were together, we were talking about kids. We were talking about we were not talking about sermons. No, we were not. You were a huge help. Um I need to give this advice that you gave to me and Onika. It was so good. I don't know if you even remember. I don't remember this now. Okay, we're sitting there, and this is when our oldest son was at the time oh, maybe he's 16 or something like that. And Onique and I, you know, we're together in this, and you know, parenting, and you know, I'm all involved, she's all involved. You know, I've got we got two boys and a little girl. And she and I were kind of hit button heads a little bit on the whole son, he's 16, the discipline, and you know, she's wanting to say this and this, and I'm like, man, I think what needs to be said this way, and when we I should say it this way, and she's like, Oh, how about this?

9:45 And you know, we're not at each other, but it's just like you know, trying to figure out that new rhythm, right? Right, right, right. And you gave this advice, it was so good. You came over, you grabbed your chair, sat there next to O'Neak, and said, Hey, Onika, you take the spot where you sit next to your son, put your arm around him and just keep on reminding him how great a young man he is. And then you let Earl come over here and do all of this. I'm getting on you, I'll keep pushing you forward, challenging you, encouraging you. And that little tweak, we were obviously already encouraging him, already loved him, we're you know, praying for him, all those things. But that tweak of just that imagery of coming around the table, it helped us in our marriage so much, helped us in our communication, uh, brought more peace to the home.

10:38 And I just want to say, you know, thank you for that. Again, that's a small thing, but I wanted to share that because I think there could be some people watching this and you're trying to navigate like what do I do with my kids? 12 is different than 16. Eight is different than 20. You know, it's just different seasons. I had a whole plan of what we could talk about, but I will say just a caveat because I think, you know, at the end of the day, you're you're you're looking to get better, and there's so much available advice in so many spaces. But I find people who are listening to podcasts to get better with their team or you know, do better in ministry or or have a bigger youth group. This is a point where we don't get a lot of help either. We don't there's not a lot of like we're all a I've had I've shared this and I'll share this with you, which really is meaningful for me for you to tell me that uh my kids are now getting older and getting married, but I would have so much warfare around writing about parenting.

11:30 I had probably a bit of like the enemy, a bit of fear because I didn't want to position myself like I mean, I'm I'm in the game still, exactly. I'm not trying to, I'm not, I'm not trying to figure out all that. But then I felt such a burden of responsibility in that I grew up with parents who love God, who stayed married, who walked together. I'm not putting that out there that that has to be the standard for everybody, but I'm I'm speaking from a place that I feel a stewardship to go, hey, I've been the recipient of so much. I need to offer this to these younger people coming behind me. I totally agree. And the way you do that too, with such humility and kindness.

12:10 And I know sometimes a person that has a story like yours. I had two parents, and man, they were for me. And if only they love me. In our day and age, talk about being sensitive, sometimes that can be disrespected. It's like, well, you don't know the struggle and you don't. It's like, well, well, don't disrespect my story. Right. This is the gift that God gave me. And this is a gift I've been able to give to my kids because my mom was a single mom. You're right? I didn't have my dad there. You don't want your kids. That was your story, but that's not what you're wanting for them. Right? Exactly. So my kids are gonna grow up now and say, I had a dad that was there, a mom that was there, they loved me, they prayed over me, they had me in church to wrap my game, you know, all those different things. Well, that's just shaping them into who they've been called to be for them to pass it on.

12:52 And you pioneered that for you for for those coming behind you, which is part of what I want to get into is, you know, um, I think I love to talk about organizational leadership dynamic. I mean, you and I, we were talking Saturday about getting people in a grow track and building teams, and you were talking about your staff and some of the things you had worked on. But what I love to talk about is, and this is what I think you embody, I think we have so much help in the mechanics, but it's like we we're we're missing kind of the essence of it, right? I mean, Peter Drucker years ago said culture eat strategy for breakfast. Yeah. Now, some people think when you say that that you don't need a plan, right?

13:33 Because hope is not a plan. Okay. So you got to, you know, of course, Onika has enough strategy for both of you. Okay, so we we know that. So we got that going. But but I want to I want to talk about spirit and I want to talk about heart, and I want to talk about team, and I want to talk about culture because every time I go in your environment, you know, there's a sense, not the weird honor thing, right? I'm I'm talking to someone maybe starting out in a family, or maybe the culture of their family has has been maybe they're where you guys were. You're doing so much right, hey, we got a little fly in the ointment here. We got a little okay. What about someone who goes, I just haven't been able to get a team.

14:17 Why does your team love you and want to the number one thing we get when people come here? How do you have people that have been here the longevity 20 plus years? How how do you guys work together? You want you have a desire for excellence and you do things with excellence, but somehow like you've still been there. Most of the time, people that maintain excellence aren't good at relationships. Yeah, that's the truth. No, you're right. You're right. But this the the pastor heart. So I want to I want to dig a bit in your story. I love all this stuff because I know you tell the story about being a point guard in college, and a point guard's main role is to get everybody involved. That's right. Now you don't see yourself as I gotta be the main scorer all the time. That's right, right? I I was not a scoring point guard.

14:58 You were not a scoring, right? So single mom, scoring point guard, worked for years as a number two. That's right. That's right. I think let's talk about spirit and heart. Yeah, that's good. I remember when you moved here to plant the church, we had a mutual friend, you getting to meet Earl. Okay. Let's let's talk about when I come into your environment, the men's event. This is a week ago now when we're recording this. And the men on the stage before we started singing and trying to look cool, and when all the lights and the lasers and everything you got in your building, I thought we might lift off into Mars or something sometime. I'm like looking up, there's more stuff in here.

15:39 Hey, let me tell you what a sound guide Earl's church needs: a million more dollars. Anyway, just one more million, and Jesus will come personally into our service. Angels, cherubim, cherubim will appear if we have one more million, anyways. Said every sound person always said every sound person everywhere. We love you, sound guys. We love you. We love you. You don't get enough credit. But the guys from the stage, man, John, thank you for uh serving. You know, they were pointing out, you know, different people, like and it and you have a bigger streaming audience.

16:22 I mean, you have quite a few people watch you from a you know online or playback or whatever. So, like when all the lights are on and everything, there's an internal audience, but there's external audience. But you actually said this may not make for good TV, yeah, yeah, but it makes for good culture. I remember when I taught at your staff meeting, what I was impacted by, I mean, there was because we're a little ahead of you guys. Some people listening may not know we're in the same city, right? Uh-huh. Love it. You know, Dallas, Fort Worth, that kind of deal. You look more Dallas, I look more Fort Worth. Thank you, I think. You got a little Dallas sweater.

17:03 Oh no, I got a Dallas sweatshirt. Anyway. You look good. Okay. But I but but we're here together, we're a little ahead. I would I would say I've actually offered more like like Earl, do this to you, but I'm always I'm always drawn up by your culture. And I'm saying, I mean, like the the the people in the staff meeting, it's like they're pulling it, there's a culture. You said, man, as we've grown, we've been working on that. Let's go back, single mom. Why, where, where does this come from in you? Because you've chosen a path. I want to say this too.

17:44 You're one of the greatest communicators on the planet today. You are. I mean, I I can I got I I mean, I got one hit men's message, okay? On a general, on a general level, people come to hear my jokes. It's low revelation, high humor. Okay. The problem is you have revelation and humor. It's true. You'll be like we're taking that out of the podcast. You pull out something out of the old testament, I'll be like, Earl, I don't know if that's biblical, but it's powerful. I don't actually know if that's really in the Bible, but man, I feel the Holy Ghost right now.

18:30 I'm always checking with Chat GPT. I don't think I said that. Check your messages with Chat GPT. Does Chat GPT say? Oh, no, it is not. It's not even saying, No, you better use your logos Bible software. That you need to use don't go to chat. I mean, so, but I do believe even as a communicator, you are. I mean, when we were at the men's event, you were talking about pornography. God can free you. You were talking about we were talking about hard subjects, both of us there. That's right. We were. We were not people sometimes, there's this narrative that's like, well, you know, a larger church or these guys who have whatever. They're there's we're getting into it. We're getting into we call since sin.

19:11 That's right. Let's get into it. That's right. All of sin and falls through the glory of God. That's when we need Jesus. That's right. That's right. But it's a lot of it's tone. Oh, that's good. It's tone. Yeah. The tone of our culture, what where people argue so much is over you and I can agree on the same facts, but if we speak in a tone, have you been married longer than two weeks? You you speak to your wife about something true in the wrong tone, you got a problem. That's right, that's right. So tell me about from your communication, from your staff. Take us back to your story. I want you to talk for a few minutes. Wow. Where did you choose the tone where I'm going to speak truth, but I'm not, I'm not going to be a team leader that's a jerk?

20:00 Yeah like I want to get stuff done, but the people matter to me. Yeah, that's right. Um because you walk in, I've been in green rooms with you, important people, both of us are the same way. We're gonna find, you know, everybody you're all important. Everybody's a 10. Exactly. Exactly. Where did this tone of your church, your speaking style, where did all that come from? These are great questions, and thank you for that incredibly humbling compliment. I definitely don't feel that. Uh feel, you know, you feel insecure, you feel like you want to grow so much, you feel like you want to be better, you feel like, man, I I wish I could sharpen this here. Um, and I've said this before, I even said at the men's event, you've been a great big brother, even in the city, uh, with how you've led your church, your staff team.

20:50 Uh, we've come over uh for the event, I believe it's still in January, right? Yeah. Everybody out there should come. I mean January 6th, 7th. Every year we have it right there in that first part of the year. It's phenomenal every single year. Lead2Win Leaders Gathering, Lead2Win.com. It's so good. Yeah. Um, but just the way you open up uh your heart for pastors, for teams. Uh we've stolen so many things, you know, from y'all. We talked about this, the whole growth track, you know, people tracker, you know, I had this in my heart. And then you are the first church that I saw that did it. Right. In a very, at least back then, some would call it archaic, you know, way. It's like I'm taking pictures of people and I'm putting their the date, I'm putting their information on there, and we're tracking them along a board.

21:37 You know, this is not just digital. This is, I know this person's name and number. Discipleship is not a system, it's a person. Yes. It's a it's a person. Totally agree. So you guys have gotten all that, but take us back to single mom. Like, let tell me, you know, you were reviewing this, like, how do you feel like tell us about your journey and like because your journey has shaped that. Some of it's how you're made. But I'm talking about honor, really. The Bible says outdo one another and showing honor. And I know some people hear that and they're like, oh, there it goes again, you know, top of God. I was terrible at this. I was terrible at receiving any compliments. I still don't even feel like I'm great at it.

22:18 We talked about this with our staff yesterday. Well, say this thing. Um, we have our staff summit uh each year, and the first session of this year's the Lord dropped in my heart uh sayings that shaped us. Oh, there you go. So we went through and just talked through some sayings that things we say in our church that shaped us. But we have new staff that say the same thing, but it doesn't mean what it originally meant. Okay. One of those things is it's an honor. It's an honor. You'll you'll come to our staff, somebody will grab you grab something, you know, for you, go grab your coat, you just say thank you, they'll go, oh, it's an honor.

23:01 Right. I'll hear that. And I was like, I think this has kind of gotten diluted because this came from a place of us understanding I can't even believe God would pick me to be a small part of his epic story to rescue humanity and to save people from their sins, to take them from lost to found, from darkness to light, from blind to seeing. What? God, you're asking me to be a part of this? Yes. It's an honor. It's an honor.

23:42 The gratitude, the joy, and what was missing, what we kept out of it was familiarity. Yeah. But now, I just feel like it's an honor, it's kind of becoming a little like, yeah, you're welcome. Yeah. No problem. Yeah. It's like, no, no, that's not, that's not what we're doing here. We're not taking that and turning it into this. Now, initially in the church, I, Jeff, like you, I don't feel like I'm anything. You know, I feel like I'm I'm I'm nothing. I'm just, I'm Earl, you know, I'm a ball guy, love my wife, love my kids. You know, it's beautiful. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. So I just feel like I'm everyday guy, just love people.

24:23 I don't'm not taking myself all that seriously, you know, at all. Um, with that, when we started the church, I didn't want anybody in the church to think that I thought I was anything. Right. I didn't want them to think that I thought I was the man. Right. So somebody Well, and really the truth is what people don't know behind the scenes. I know you felt this. I I was a senior pastor earlier than you. We we've we have imposter since I mean there's there's time. I hope they don't find out that I don't really know what I'm doing. Figuring this out every you talk about being when you're a parent. Yeah. You're preaching on it. It's like, guys, I'm still in this right now, okay? Everything you're saying today could be nullified by the kids, we've got a long runway here.

25:06 So I'm hoping what I'm saying to you is gonna stick with my kids too, and thankfully they're they're moving the right direction. But all of this, we're on the potter's wheel, too. So every leader that has been tasked to lead, right? We are under the same pressure that those who we are leading are under. It's just different, but we're still under pressure. And I'm and I was joking about your communication. I mean, you're very much a very good Bible teacher. I'm anchored to the, I mean, at the end of the day, we we're gonna preach the word. Yeah, exactly. Because whether it's working at my house or not, or wherever the word still works. So we are preaching the word of the living God and let it preach.

25:47 That's right, that's right, that's right. But we are on the leadership side, and and again, I've been doing this 30 years, and I would say the last six or seven, you find yourself even more so because of the world. We were joking, AI, chat GPT, yeah, the world going crazy. Like there's we found ourselves in the last six or seven years, too, with literally you're you're going. I felt like it was talking about wisdom, the story of Solomon where two moms said, It's it's our baby, and Solomon's like, well, split it in half, and the real mom said, you know, that's right. It's I felt like I was in a bunch of two moms and one baby moments.

26:29 Where, and then, of course, somebody who's in the bleachers, they're not in the game. They're not in the game. Yeah, yeah. I mean, my son played high school football, you know, in high he's he's been out of high school, so I forgot. I went to a game the other night, and it's amazing how many people in the stands. You're such great coaches. Yeah, that's right. That's right. It's like no, you haven't built anything, but then you're superimposing on me. Yeah, you know, you're scared to say this, you're scared to do that, or whatever. But I think when you have a heart to bring lost people to bring, I was telling you, I respect you so much, the diversity of your church. Like, I mean, it it's like I told you this Saturday because I preached there, Latinos, like I'm not diversity.

27:13 Remember, it's miraculous. It's miraculous, it is, right? Because it's not our church, but it's beautiful. I'm a white pastor saying you have a black church. Yeah, no, it's white, black, Latino. Honestly, I think in our city it's the most diverse. That would be my opinion, but I don't there may be one out there I don't know about. But um, so when you have that, you you know, you're you're leading and you're like, okay, everyone's coming from a different context. Yeah, we don't compromise the word. We're not oh that that can't change. That can't change. We're not changing that. Unchanging. That's right. But I think so, even leading with wisdom in a in a very complex world that is very polarized because your phone feeds you one message.

27:58 Like I meet so many people today to go, you do know there's another viewpoint to that. Yeah. And then I tell them and they go, those people are crazy. We know they're crazy. We we know you're perfect, but I mean that we know that, okay? We've we've already defined that. This is so real, Jeff. When you're saying this, it is so spot on. And uh probably every leader listening to this right now is like, thank you. You know, you're soothing their souls because we are in this pressure cooker. But even getting back to what you were talking about with the honor piece, I think. I think they're connected. I think they're it's all connected. It is. It is. It's that whole we would say it uh uh at our church like this: there you are versus here I am.

28:38 Okay. This it's one of our sayings that have shaped this as well. Okay. There you are versus here I am. So when I'm walking into a room like you talked about earlier, there you are. There you go. Not here I am. Uh-huh. Um I'm trying to find out what's your story, where are you from? Yes. Uh tell me what makes you tick. Uh, what can I learn from you? There you are versus here I am. And we live in a day, maybe there's a lot of here I am, and then also there's a lot of insecurity with here I am. I feel like I gotta walk into the room and I gotta prove to everybody that I'm this or I'm that. And I'm like, man, it's not worth it. It is tiring. All of us are trying to figure out who we are anyway in the in in Christ. So let's just keep on growing and maturing. So I'm gonna walk into a room and go, there you are.

29:20 I had no problem living that way with others. Okay. I had a very difficult problem living, receiving that. Receiving it, yeah. So it was since I wasn't able to receive it in our church, I actually killed our culture of honor. Okay, yeah, there you go. It actually started to take, I took it out. It was not there. There's an appropriate level to that's my pastor. Yeah, there's an appropriate level to the I thank God for my. I mean, I have m the same pastors, same wife, different dog. You can have him, I hate him. But but I but my pastors I call pastor. Yeah. I know different cultures don't do that. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it doesn't like a requirement or like, you know, we call Jesus by his first name, so you can call by the case.

30:02 You can, no, it's not a big deal. It's but I'm doing that for me. Agreed. Not for them. Because they'll be like, look, I know, no, no, no, no. I have lots of friends. And and and you know, and and and and there can be a familial dialogue, yeah. But when I'm referencing, I'm reminding myself this person holds a different place in my life. That's right. There's a place of a place of honor, place of respect. And when you give that, and again, we've all some of us have seen the negatives and the downside of that. So we're not talking about that. We're saying, are you made in the image of God? Yes. Did Jesus Christ die for you, give you a calling, uh, give you gifts and talents and abilities, put you on this earth for a reason and an assignment?

30:45 Yes. So I'm gonna treat you in alignment with that. I love it. And then if somebody gives that back to me, I have to be willing to receive that. Right. Because when I wasn't, I was taking out the culture of honor in the church and was impacting how people were treating each other. Okay. So I had to be willing to receive it so then everybody it could be allowed to flourish in the church. You become aware of that. You you were you've referred to that two or three times. I couldn't receive it. You were you, and I sense what you're saying is I I pushed that down and deflected it because I didn't want this weird thing where I Bishop Earl, everybody walks in, entourage, bow down to him.

31:25 That's right, we're not doing that. Really wanted to have a place where everyone was part of the family, we're all the same, same, same, I have the same heart. How did you find out that you had that problem? Two two uh two things. Uh, one is I had a friend come through, and the friend, after he sat through the services, was like, huh. I noticed something unique. You and Onika are very, very honoring of others, but I didn't hear that language in the church at all. This is where maybe three years old at the time, maybe two years old, something like that, as a church.

32:06 And we started unwrapping, and it took him coming from another perspective, coming in from the outside, and I said, Oh man, I I did this unintentionally. Okay. Unintentionally trying to create a culture of, hey, we're all just in this together. I started to squelch something that actually helps miracles happen. Yeah, it actually pulls the potential that God put in people out of them. It actually helps people develop and grow and mature. It actually shows people the beauty of the cross of Jesus Christ and what God has done for them. And I decided because of my own insecurities. Right. Not because of the Lord. It was my own sin, my own pride, my own, I didn't want people to see me incorrectly.

32:50 Right. That I was squelching this and stopping our people from being able to be all that God had called them to be. And these are God's kids. Since these are God's kids, I want them to flourish. So that friend helped me tremendously with just getting another perspective. Love it. Um that was that was one key. Then the other one was just my own spiritual journey of just knowing, you know, I got my own issues I'm dealing with and things I'm fighting through and working through. Um even this, um, this sounds weird. I'm no, you know, I wrote a book, and in my book, uh, you know, it's actually really good. I didn't want to I didn't want to segue like that.

33:31 But my book really actually, it's it is about this struggle. It's about I am God saying this thing to me, and I'm going, No, you're not right, God. You picked the wrong person. Moses, you refer to that in there. Yeah, yeah. You can't be, you can't be picking the right person here. What's the title of the book? Uh it is called Get Your Spirit Back. Get Your Spirit Back. Yeah, walking through Speaker. I haven't read it yet. Get Your Spirit Back. And and so it's wherever books are sold, we can't. Yeah, yeah, for sure. But I definitely don't bring it up for that reason. No, I want people, so it's it's a it's a book on, which is really the root of all this. You know, you you say I don't want to be like my dad or my mom or whatever, but we're products of the cultures we're in.

34:16 So we lean one way or the other. And I want to make this really practical. Again, I think you're an amazing communicator. Um, I think everybody listening to me is a communicator. They're they may not communicate from the stage where I do. But they have a stage. But they have a stage, they have a home, they have a team. And what you're saying is how I see that person I'm communicating to, it impacts my message to them and where they receive it. And I think that's why people receive from you because of that heart. Man, I Earl, man, he loves he you're lifting in there, and I'm I'm coming with you, right? And so I get that, but but whatever you're strong at can also create your weakness.

35:00 So communication, yeah, team building. Some people out there, I we talk I talk a lot about teams because it's the number one question I get. I can't get my team. You know, John Maxwell, he who thinks he leads but has no followers is only taking a walk, right? So a lot of people are struggling today. So you may be on the side of what I'm hearing you say, which is a different perspective based on your strength. We harp on the person who is positional. Everybody's like, that's obvious. Nobody wants to follow a jerk. That's right. Like, you don't care about anybody else, you're not valuing them. But what you're equally saying is this is very insightful. You can also fall in the trap to losing the perspective that Paul said, follow me as I follow the Lord.

35:47 Like there's an element to where you realize, yeah, set an example. That's don't let anyone look down upon you because you're young, but you do have to set an example. You do. And and and and I told someone. And be willing to be misinterpreted and misunderstood. And that was the problem. Sorry to interrupt you, that I was having because you you I'm gonna set the example, and then somebody thinks you're setting the example because you're trying to prop yourself up. And it's like, no, no, no. Actually, I I don't, I'm not trying to prop myself up in the battle. What keeps me grounded, and again, I tell the staff this uh Revelation chapter 4, there's 24 elders that are around the throne, they're all worshiping, and it the Bible tells us that they take off their crowns and they say, You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory, honor, and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.

36:36 So, at the end of the day, I used to do this all the time after I preached. Um, I don't I don't do it every single time now, but I would go home after the compliments and I would get on my knees and I would put my hands on my bald head, take off the crowns that people had given me, and I would be on my knees and I would say, You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory, honor, and power. I would quote that verse, just seeing myself laying down those crowns. So I'm trying to go to bed crownless. There you go. Every single night. I want to go to bed crownless. So the people will try to put it on you, and I recognize that. Uh, but this is what they did with Jesus, this is what they did with uh the apostles, this is what they did with Paul.

37:18 I mean, go down the line. They they the the society will try to do that to us. Yes, it will be. But we got to be the ones that go, I know who's this is all borrowed clothing. You like this outfit? It's not even mine. God gave me this outfit, okay? Everything that you like about me, it's from his closet, okay? It's going back anyway. These aren't my shoes. These are his shoes. These aren't even my gifts per se. These are his gifts. So I'm gonna keep laying that down. But that spirit, that heart, I do think I'm trying to, you know, I pray I keep it. And you know, Jeff, I give you permission. You ever see me getting off? You know, speak into my life, help me make sure I stay on the right path. You know, I want to. I want to do that.

37:58 You ever ask that question sometimes? People that get off, and it's like they are, it's just like, man, there's this, it's this, their pride goes before the fall. And you kind of go, is anybody talking to them? You ever you ever have that thought? Oh my gosh, yes. I go, who's talking to them? A lot of times, if someone's listening, you know, it's it's kind of like with David, you know, the prophet comes and he goes, Well, you are that guy. You are the guy. So you have to keep the fear of the Lord to go. And I and that's what I do, what you just did. I'm not giving somebody that's built nothing and contributed nothing the right to superimpose on me a definition of me that's not true.

38:41 I'm not giving that right to me. I'm not gonna receive the praise, or I'm not gonna receive your definition of my motives. Wow. Well, you're this or you're that. We could make we just identify people now today. He's a this, he's a that, he's a whatever. Hold on, okay. I'm not doing either one. I'm not as good as you think. Yeah, yeah. And I'm actually not as evil as you think. Actually, if you sat at the table with us and you heard all the context, you'd be like, oh, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, it's really good. We lose sight today. We don't have a lot of context. Oh, no, we have clips. We have clips we don't know. But but but I will say, you know, I'm not either one of those, but I am also who God's I'm I'm I'm stewarding what God has given me to steward.

39:25 And as long as I keep that perspective. But what I do though is I tell people, I have a handful of people like that. Please. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Please, just come and tell me. We're in the same city. So if you get this vibe, Jeff is going crazy. What's he talking about? He abandoned the scriptures. Come over here. That's right. Put me in a headlock and check me. You know. Brandy will do it before me. That's really true. For sure. Her strength finder is belief. So I've always told people I get in sin, she'll stand up on Sunday and go, Jeff can't preach today. Sorry, guys. Sorry. Not qualified. But you need that. Can anybody tell you no? Oh.

40:06 Can anybody come in your life and go, I love you? Nope. But don't do that. Nope. That's incorrect. That's that's the wrong path. It's not even be sin. That might just be a weight. It's just or it's just not wise. It's not wise. It's just not wise. That's a foolish strategy. Totally agree. But a lot of people today abandon very fundamental things that hurt people for clicks, four things. Oh, for sure. For sure. This will get it faster. Why am I asking this about honor, right? Like, because you can be more critical, more dishonorable, more narrow, less holistic. Yeah. And that's actually how you build a brand. Oh my goodness.

40:48 I don't know how deep we want to get into this, but you know, Jeff, we live in a day that if okay, I'll say it this way. The line I'm going to draw, and I know you're with me on this one. We're Jesus. We're Jesus people. We talked about this on Saturday. Here's my line. It's about Jesus. It's Jesus. Exactly. Him and him crucified. Now, does that mean there are other issues that we don't need to talk about? Of course, we're talking, we're going to talk about everything that we need to talk about in Scripture, but the world is trying to tell the church what we're supposed to preach and how we're supposed to preach it. No, no, no, no, no. I'm sorry. When the day comes, I'm standing before God, and He is not asking, How large was your church?

41:33 He's not asking me that question. That's not going to be the question he's asking. He's not asking, did people like you? He's not going to ask me that question. We're going to be talking about how did you steward the people that I put in your care? Did you turn them into as best you possibly could, partnering with the Holy Spirit, into Christ-like followers that were going to be discipled and loved and growing? And then by disciple, I'm not saying I'm just receiving, because that's a whole nother thing we can get into that people now want to tell you, disciple me. And I just mean somebody's pouring into me, but they're not pouring into anybody else. I'm a disciple. Thank you. Thank you. That's not what Jesus was saying here, people. Well, and that's that's the word human nature to get in the ditch.

42:13 Well, we're just all real healthy growing disciples. Wait a minute. If you're disciples of Christ, you know how to fish. He said you're going to fish for men. His disciples went fishing for people. So show me. Who are the people? Where is the people who are impact? Where are you pouring into then? You got to be some, there's got to be some people that you're pouring into, right? You guys are being disciple. Right. Then you're not doing it right. Right. Then you're not doing it right. If you're saying you're being discipled and you're not doing it right. So you you I got I love the Greek too. I love Hebrew. It's beautiful. It's fantastic. You know, you're a doctor. You go you got all the this is fantastic. I love all of that. Where are the people? Hey, are they are they are you pouring into anybody else? Are you laying your life down for anybody else? Um, and I'm not saying that has to be thousands, but there's got to be at least a one.

42:56 There's got there's got to be at least a one. A son, a daughter, a co-worker, uh whatever it is. It's got to be somebody. Yeah. So I mean, we're all over the place in the man. I love it, but I'm still going back to I I I I saw something. Because you have this honor. We're going back to this honor, this whole idea you said, you know, not about me, but about you. There you are. Serve you. There you are versus here I am. This idea of it's an honor, right, to serve you. Okay. All of those things you're saying, which I think is very unique insight here, because I do believe there's some younger leaders probably listening to, where pride is evident, arrogance is evident, but what you're really describing is false humility as arrogance too.

43:45 That's exactly what it is. It it's so not do not think of your own. It's more acceptable, pride, right? But it is pride nonetheless. Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, right? What does that mean? It's not think less of yourself, as one person said, but think of yourself less, right? Very good. So it what what we're talking about too is I mean, I know I've had some of our younger leaders who were like, Well, I'm a female, I'm a this, I'm a I'm this, I'm young, I came from here, I came from there. I go, well, no one cares. Yeah, just lead, be amazing, lift people, serve others. I was a 21-year-old senior pastor. I'm not saying I was great, but I was in the game and I was serving.

44:25 Yeah, and you just grow and you get better. I'm just gonna keep valuing people. Totally agree. I want to go back because I we still haven't gotten there. I was at your men's event, I was getting ready to leave. Your son, who said he said I was really funny, and he said he's the funniest one in the McClellan. Our middle son had the audacity to tell this amazing man of God here next to me, Pastor Jeff Little, that he is the funniest person in our family. I and you know what I said? I'm coming over. Let's have a me, you, and Earl, let's have a comedy night. I love Grace. Let's see what you got. He's funny, he's funny, but he I he's been under my tutelage for 15 years.

45:08 It's so funny. Because my son came, he went to college and then he served in the youth ministry, whatever, and he actually moved back and is and he's leading young adults. And he he told me the other day, he goes, Yeah, dad, I'm seeing the real pattern here. Like, you're preaching a lot of my messages. I'm like, or or just given an alternative possibility. There's another option here. You've been sitting under my teaching for your entire life. Oh man, I love them. But our kids are great, they're amazing. But but but but um I'm I'm thinking about again, you know, different your story though is part of it.

45:53 Let me go back to I was in there, your son, that's where I got off track. Your son, and you looked, a young man was over there, and and your son and I were talking, and then you looked at a young man and you said, Hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna we're almost done, you know. I'm gonna take you home. I'm like, Earl, who's that young man? That young man was a son of a single mom that you went and picked up before all your responsibilities of host me to bring to that. I have a burden for single moms. We serve hundreds of single moms. So beautiful. All of that. What what about that part of your story? Because I heard you say something that I thought you love the church and you believe the church should be that place that does talk about hard things but lifts others because that was the place for you.

46:41 That's exactly right. And the men of the church were the ones that picked me up. This is in the days of Edwin Lewis Cole. Oh, yeah. Maximize manhood, maximized manhood. Yep. Being a male is a matter of birth, being a man is a matter of choice. I mean, I I remember all of these sayings. Um, but they would pick me up from our house in the hood, and because our our church was not in the inner city, it was in Providence, Rhode Island. Our church was in Massachusetts, but again, they're all so close, so you know it took 20 minutes to get there. But uh they would pick us up, pick me up, bring me to these meetings. I mean, I'm 11, 12.

47:24 Yeah. All these men they're drinking coffee and eating donuts, so I'm grabbing a donut too, and I'm hearing them talk about just marriage and life. I still remember being in the fellowship hall. That's what it's called. And I'm looking up at all these guys, and they're just talking about life. They would sit down and watch a video of Edwin Lewis Cole talking about manhood, talking about sex and marriage, yeah, talking about finances. Again, I'm 11, 12, 13, 14 years old, all the way through. Then one of the youth leaders or one of the men in the church would bring me home, drive it back off, and that's so good. Do it again next week, or the third Saturday of the month.

48:05 But they just were present in my life. So we're what what my biological father, who I love him and I'm thankful for him, and uh we have reconciled, uh-huh, but what he was not able to be, right? God provided the church and the men of the church. But this goes back to that environment. We are not minimizing a lot of the things people harp on. It wasn't it wasn't the size of the fellowship hall, the quality of the donuts, not that there isn't uh appropriate parking for people. It wasn't even the and and I love the I again I've I have advanced degrees in theology, but you don't remember every single theological point of the teaching.

48:52 You do remember there was a man who saw you exactly who honored you no matter where you were coming from, yeah, and was willing to give away their lives to you. Edwin Lewis Cole, you saying that, talk about honor, because you're making me think where where did all of that come from? I remember he came to our church, I'm probably at this time 14 years old, maybe 15. Maybe I'm 15, and he calls me up to the front. Wow. And he asks me about my mom. I don't know if my pastor told him that my mom was a single mom.

49:32 I don't know, I'm not sure what happened. And he gave me 50, but it may have been a hundred dollar bill, but I think it was a$50 bill. Wow. And he said, take your mom out for dinner. Wow, that's so good. And I got to go out, and my mom and I ordered dinner, and when the check came, I got it, and I paid with that$50. So good. Did the tip so good and felt like a man. That's it. Felt like I had responsibility, felt like I had worth and value. It wasn't the$50, it was the dignity of I got I got you, mom. I got you. Love that. And so here he is honoring me, teaching me to go honor my mom.

50:16 Yep. And now my mom lives with us, which is awesome and wonderful and amazing. Uh, but I think there were just some things that happened throughout the course of my life that continue to shape and mold, and you don't even realize you have these little mile markers, and now you know you are who you are, and you're thankful for it. And again, you're you're forcing me to kind of dig a little bit deeper. So there was the there were these impactful moments, and I think that's where we underestimate as a team leader or as a parent or as a church member or as a business owner, seeing people and you're sowing seeds, you never know. Like they didn't know what they were investing in, 11-year-old Earl. They didn't know. Look today.

50:57 That pastor, and I have a pastor like that who let me preach when I was 16, who would bring me to his house on Wednesday nights, got kids running around, his wife's cooking spaghetti. He's probably been at the church all day, did two hospital visits, and he would bring me to his house on Wednesday nights because he saw the call of God on me. I went back and did his funeral for him and honored that many and just went back and said, guys, what I'm doing today, thank God for whoever is. That's right. We ascribe that to, well, they're pastors. It doesn't have to be just that. They're everybody here. Totally agree. Let's let me go to one more because I think I also talk to people, and I'm talking about environment. I think we miss something today. Wherever you are, you're there, right?

51:38 It's it's where it isn't your God was building this in your story, and it wasn't about your context, it was about what he was doing in you. Wow, it's powerful. And we missed that. Yeah, it's powerful. Yep. So talk to me about you go to college, you and Onika, you know, y'all, y'all get married, all of this happening. But before you planted Shoreline City Church, how many years were you an executive pastor? Yeah, I was on staff for 12 years at a church in Austin. Love loved it, loved it then, still love it to this day. Love as a matter of fact, we were just there. Onika and I actually went together and spoke at the final woman's conference at that church. 25 years they've been doing the women's conference, and they they're they decided to stop it this year, and they asked Onique and I come back to speak.

52:25 And it was an honor to be there. We know that the the the background, the connections, it was a great formative place for you. Okay. Let's talk about this though, because I think today there's so many outlets and so many, you know, miracle grow. You know what I mean? Like it's miracle grow. I would love I love getting to this show. I love you. Get you a trailer, just it's for worship leaders, it's for business leaders. This happens with pastors, it happens with youth. It happens, you go down the line. Influencers, everybody is thinking, let me go ahead and just proverbial, strike oil, boom, let me blow up. We would say it, go viral.

53:07 It's like go viral, then you know what? It's a lie. It's a lie. It's not true. You don't have the root system, yeah. You don't have the character, you don't have the tenacity, you don't have the dirt underneath your fingernails to maintain the thing that has come your way. Uh, as some people would put it, the the pressure that is on you is greater than the character within you. So good. So you want to find a spot where you can be under some spiritual leadership. Even if you're in the business world, find you're under your pastor's spiritual authority, not what you're manipulated and taken advantage of. We're not talking about that. We're talking about being under somebody's covering and authority. You're gonna flourish and become who got to be.

53:48 But I want to I want to get in my sweet spot. I mean, I gotta I was talking to some young folks the other day. I said, What are you gonna do when you graduate college? They said, I'm gonna be a consultant. I'm like Of what? I'm serious. I'm gonna be a high schooler. I'm no longer a high school at British College. Yep, I'm gonna consult high school students. You'll crush it. You'll crush it at that. Do it. But you know what I find so interesting because you and I, it's like, okay, wait a minute, Earl. You're fun, you're life-giving, you're a culture creator, you're doing all this. Like you were like managing the budget. Exactly. You were doing the facility, you're an executive pastor. Opening up. Forgive me if I don't think that's like your main gift note.

54:29 No, exactly. It doesn't hurt my feelings at all. I grew so much, and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm there's part of I'm working muscles that I didn't know that I needed to work or that I even had. Right. Thank you, thank you, God, for my pastor giving me an opportunity to learn and grow. Because if not, oh my goodness, I would not even have the understanding that I have right now. So it's so fun being on the staff, having a staff now, right? Because I go, I know what you guys are thinking. You're thinking, why doesn't he just do X, Y, or Z? That's what you're thinking. Because you think you know. Because you've been there. Yeah, yeah.

55:10 Let me just tell you, when you go from the seat that you're in to my seat, it is such a different perspective and such a different way. And I'm not better. We're all just on the same team. You're a right guard, you gotta have a left guard, you got the tackle, you got the center, you got the safeties. Everybody's just doing their part. I'm not saying my part's more important, but I got a part on the team. Right. You got a part on the team, and I'm telling you, it's not the same pressure. So even those, again, if it's in the business world and you're not the head boss or you're not the founder of the company, it's just a different weight when you are the founder and the leader as compared to some other roles. Well, let's ask a specific question here then, because I want to ask this.

55:52 I think it's important, someone listening. So you obviously had that in you because of what you're doing today. How do you know when? How do you know how? What if you're like, but they don't understand? Like, I am I'm I'm going to be Earl, and maybe you will be. How do you know? How do you know when? How do you know how? What do you do? Like it's like, I how do you handle that? If you're if you're on a team or totally agree. You know, because one thing a lot of people do is they just move from team to team, or they go from here to here. But how do how do you navigate that? We know there are ish places that are abusive, that are toxic, that are um inappropriate, uh sinful.

56:38 You can go down the line. We know those places exist. Right. Leave. Get out of that. Right. Duh. Right. So we're not talking about that right now. We're not talking about that. We're talking about you as an individual that your pastor's not sinning, but the leader in your life might not be the best leader. Okay. They might not, you know, they might not be. They might not be the best leader on the planet, you know? Yeah. Got character and integrity, they're honest, you know. They they might not even be a great people person. Maybe they're not. Maybe they're a Bible teacher and they like to teach more than they like people. That's exactly right. So maybe whatever. That's not sin. That's not sin. In our day and age, if I don't like connect and jive with you and we don't vibe, if I'm like the vibe, I gotta go.

57:25 I'm like, whoa, whoa, you you're missing what God is trying to shape in you. There you go. In that environment right there, right? As you're trying to find the perfect place to land, yeah. Oh no, my friend. What I say, and I encourage even people on our staff with this, do you trust God with your future or do you only trust yourself? There you go. Because the Lord wants to get you to whatever level you're supposed to get to, just so you know, I'm not gonna be able to stop them. No. I don't have the power to stop God from doing what God wants to do in your life. No. So if you'll stay yielded, focused, serving others, right, aligned with the vision, if you'll do that, watch how God will take care of you and shape you and mold you, and you'll grow into who you're supposed to be.

58:17 You don't have to fight for it. Yeah. People told me, Jeff, I had so many words from the Lord that I was supposed to be this and that and do this and that. And I'm unlocking the church. Yeah. That's what I was doing. Dealing with staff problems. Yeah, that's what I'm doing. Dealing with all the overflow big problems that the pastor don't do. I'm like, what whatever timeline. So, on a practical note, then, how did it happen? Your pastor. My past I went to him. I remember going to him and his wife and saying, because he asked me, Earl, do you ever feel you're supposed to lead a church? He asked me that question. And I said, I had this dream.

59:01 At that time would have been eight months ago. I'm submitting it to you. Listen, great language. Pastor, if you feel great about this, then let's talk about it. The timeline, I'll be giving it to you. I gave that into his head. Wow. Then we and then we waited forever. That's what it felt like. It seemed like. Yeah, it seemed like how long was it really? So I had the dream in October of 2009. We talked in March of 2010 the first time about this little nighttime dream I had.

59:43 That's 2010. We did not leave until May of 2011. So for another year and a half. Right before the dream, our pastors lost their middle son in the car accident tragically, 17 years old, fell asleep at the wheel. Yes, hit a tree, so tragic. So then I get the dream in October, and I feel terrible. I'm like, God, I don't why would you ask? Why'd you give me this now? So that's all happening right there at the same time. And you have the dream, but you submitted it to him. That's what I'm gonna do. But see, also, I want to talk about honor here.

1:00:24 I want to talk about character here. You were willing to serve because you you were very needed in that time period window. That's right. God wasn't delaying your launch, He had his bigger kingdom story. You reap what you sow, and you honored your pastor in a difficult time and stayed there. And that it's almost like we've never talked about this. It's almost like God tested you with the dream to see how in the crisis how you would hold it. Earl, is this your dream or my dream? Because remember, we don't believe this is our dream. This this whole you got a dream. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

1:01:05 It's God's vision. Exactly. Yeah. We're just stewarding the Lord to try to show me what you're so he gave it to you, goes, you know, now how's Earl gonna handle that in this moment? And you served your pastor, you took care of him, so it was about that time, and then he sent you to Dallas. I remember when it happened. Yep, that is so good. I I didn't see it as that testing, but it did feel um hard hard, trying at times. This is a great practical. I I didn't even know if I've ever talked to my pastor about this. I need to joke with him about it. We're we all know we're leaving. Me, I know I'm leaving, my wife knows, he knows, his wife knows, our kids know, but we hadn't told the church.

1:01:53 You know, so yeah, after he and his wife, we're one of the you know, primary faces, you know, of the church. They don't know that we're leaving. Our son, at the time he was like five years old, our oldest, is going up to people asking for prayer because we're moving to Dallas, and people are coming up to us going, crying. Crying. Are you you moving to Dallas? Parker said, is this true? Like, uh yes, but don't say it to anybody. But you know, we couldn't muzzle our son, you know, from from saying, you know, kids are so pure and innocent. Um, so we have to hold on to it. We had leadership meetings at our house. I would have to pull my for sale sign out of the yard, not have to.

1:02:37 This is what I chose to do. Pull it out of the yard, hide it in our garage, right? So that because we wanted to allow our pastors to be the one to tell the story. It was not our story to tell. That was testing. That was trying. I'm like, Pastor, you're kind of forcing me to lie here. Not lie, you know, really, but I just feel like I want to get this out. Right, right. I'm ready to run, I'm ready to go. But it was all that was testing character, right? Honor, honor, humility, having good spirit, caring about the people more than you care about your deal. What that was really about was you were caring about the people, right? You're wanting them to have a healthy process, just the same way a dad would with kids.

1:03:17 That is so good. Going back to what you said about Solomon, which I stole from an another mentor in my life, he said, you know, Solomon tells those these moms, uh, okay, let's cut the baby in half. Yeah. And the woman who wasn't the mom goes, great. Right. The woman who was the mom goes, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. He goes, I've discovered that there's some staff people that say they love the church, but they're willing to cut the baby in half. Yeah. Oh, I love the church. I love the church. Oh, really? Right, right, right. Why are you talking how you're talking and leaving how you're leaving? Right. Really? You you you you love the church? You know what? The baby's more important.

1:03:59 It's like, okay, I mean, it's it's w it's fine. I I don't have to. I'm gonna do this in the right way. Yeah. So for I didn't again, I didn't know. I want to tell somebody this because you and I are sharing this as principles, which is what I love about this format, and you and I might be having this conversation. But there's not it's this is not anything to gain for us. We're sharing this saying you teach what you know, you reproduce what you are. Wow. So why am I digging this? I go to your staff, I go, Earl, it's just a good spirit, man. Like they just got good hearts. First time. Go over there today. You're like, uh, this is last Saturday.

1:04:39 And you're like, well, we've really grown, we've been working on it more. But what I'm trying to show people is there were people in the church that honored you when you could have been looked down on as a kid, but you were you you were taught to honor your mom and take her to dinner. And then you're journeying along, and then you you learn how to honor your wife, and then you come along, and then you're in this very challenging set of circumstances that you could have handled either way, but you were acting in an honorable way. It's not by happenstance that now you have this atmosphere with with honor. Well, that's you're very insightful. There's the wisdom, you know, that you have from the Lord and passed on from your dad.

1:05:21 Um, I you know, I do receive that, and it is good to understand how something is working, right? Because so when it's not working, you know how to fix it. Um so you saying all of this has my wheels actually spinning a whole bunch right here because there's some things that I think we might just do intuitively that are really helping create the environment that we'd like to have, that you you wouldn't know to say don't do that until you see it and you go, Whoa, that doesn't feel right. Yeah. We we we don't we don't do that right now right there. That's that's not that's not the right spirit. Yeah, it doesn't feel right and heart.

1:06:02 Exactly. Spirit survival than words. You've been the pastor at Shoreline City. How old is the church now? Church at in we started in 2012. 2012, yeah. Which I had a I had like this this thing from the Lord. I was over there that you needed a hub, God's really helped y'all. Y'all got a hub, it's exciting, the building's amazing. I want to ask this one last question for a leader out there, because someone tuning into this, they're getting encouragement because you you can feel like I'm dealing with stuff that nobody else is dealing with, right? So that's part of why we listen in there listening to you and I going, well, these guys are a man, they're in the same battle. That's right. From moving into being a senior pastor, what has been your biggest surprise?

1:06:45 What's been your biggest takeaway? What's been your biggest challenge of that new new step of leadership? Yeah. What's the biggest hard? Because I want that translates to business, to team, to you're a new youth pastor, you're a new children's person, you're leading a new team at work. You're you're I we have several teachers and school uh because you know, ministry and school leaders, they're they're managing a lot of stuff. But listen to this. What's been your biggest surprise? You're it's kind of like, man, I didn't see that coming. That's harder than I thought it would be. What what what has that been? For me, it would be me. And I I'm not trying to, it's not even a joke.

1:07:26 I actually am surprised that I thought, not that I was perfect, I never thought that, but I thought I worked through some more things and I'm let's go. Okay, we're kind of ready. And there was a level of uh I was naive. Yeah. I was I was naive, but I actually think that's a gift. I know, I agree. I know where you're getting with this. For me to not know how I needed to grow and change, right, actually helped me be willing to take the step of faith.

1:08:07 Yeah. Because if God had shown me all that it was going to require, you'd be like, oh, you know what I'm gonna pass. No, no, thank you. No, thank you. So that's why some things even can look easier than they are at times. Because obviously God has graced the leader for that thing. And a person goes, I can do that. You better go, hey, are you really called to that? And you better make sure you are, because you're gonna be in a fire that you don't even it it's it's hotter and harder than you even thought possible. God will give you the grace for it, the strength for it. That's true. If you're called. If you're called, if you're called, yeah, but uh that's where he's trying to, he loves us so much, right?

1:08:49 Right. Me and you, he's trying to shape us into the men. He's called us to be the every leader that listening to this, he he loves you so much. Let me get rid of that. Let me add this in your life. Let me shave this off here, just because by the time you meet me face to face, I want you looking as much like Christ as you possibly can. So he's conforming us into the image of Christ, and he is using this next level of leadership that he's given us for that task. It's a tool in his hand to help us grow. So every person that's on a staff team, understand God's using you in that role. He's using every the people who get on your nerves, the pastor who doesn't understand you, the gift that you have that you're not able to use, but you know you feel you're supposed to use it, but you can't use it yet.

1:09:31 He, all of that stuff, he's using it to shape you and mold you. And that has helped me tremendously. So I would say I'm excited now for the rest of the journey because I feel like, oh, this is what it is. Like, it's not gonna be something different. I'm not gonna reach some point where all of a sudden we don't have any struggle, problem, difficulty, and pain. And I'm like, Yeah, I've arrived. Oh gosh, say that from the choir. It's not happening. Don't you have that perception, though? And I think a lot of leaders do, that there is this utopian place. Like, well, once I get to this number of people, number of staff, when I have these ri that then, you know what, man, it's like at that point, it's coast.

1:10:15 No. No, it's it's every level has a new demand, a new requirement. It's it's you're you're moving to the next level of your inadequacies and you're and you don't you've never been here before. And if you're willing to keep growing, if you're willing to keep growing. Because if I you can do this, I can do this, and every leader listening can go, God brought me to this next level, I'm stopping here. Exactly. I don't I don't want to grow anymore. I don't want to make any more sacrifices. I'm gonna live off of my sacrifices from years ago. I I Thanksgiving weekend, you know, I I usually don't preach that weekend, and I had a set of circumstances, my family came in. It's Thanksgiving weekend, and I went to our new campus in Argyle and went to church and just got in there.

1:10:56 I hosted and and really built up the campus pastor. I love that. I walked away going, I gotta grow. I'm like, man, I'm the old school pastor, you know, in the and I thought, man, I gotta get better at this, I gotta grow at that. Yeah, but um, that's what makes the journey fun. It is what makes the journey fun. God is using this, even our marriage, he's using that. I'm not gonna get to a place where all of a sudden we're not growing in our marriage unless we want to settle. No, I want us to have the best marriage we can possibly be. Exactly. So with my kids, uh, with the staff team, uh, I'm trying to make sure I'm not setting goals to feed my ego, right? I don't want to do that.

1:11:36 I want to set goals that are hopefully God inspired, but that will push all of us to accomplish his plan and his purpose. But I think if we do that, then I think God's like, let's go. You want to keep growing? Yeah. Let's go. Because I mean, growth means souls in heaven. Exactly. And for me, that in the last several years has become such, it's like, Lord, I'll sacrifice for eternity and for for families and people and legacies in terms of Christ-like eternal legacy. And so, you know, I'm willing to do it for that. Yeah. And that's that's where a lot, I think there's a narrative out there that I would just encourage people not to buy into that there is this world in which it is a stagnant, totally clean clean, cleansed from challenge environment.

1:12:28 Because there's so much negativity today about actually moving stuff forward. It's like that's bad. I'm like, used to that used to be positive. You wouldn't be where you are, whoever that naysayer is, if somebody didn't try to push through the boundaries and make something better. Exactly. So that is one of my big frustrations with the brand of Christianity that I see today, where everyone not everyone, but enough people are like, no, I'm just gonna kind of do it on my own schedule. Yeah. Really? On your own schedule? Yeah. Wow. Okay. Show me all the Bible on that. Uh yeah, that's why we go and bring the Bible in. Yeah, yeah. Show me where Jesus called his disciples.

1:13:08 I'm so glad Jesus did not give the Great Commission mission to us in our generation. Right. Because I don't know if we would have if the gospel would have made it. Wow. I had somebody tell me the other day, you guys really believe people go to hell? I'm like, yeah, I mean, it's in the Bible actually, you know, quite often. You know, do you really believe you're eternally separated? And and and the guy was like, Well, if y'all really believe that, y'all would live different. I was like, man, that's convicting. It is. It's like, if I really believe that, yeah, right. So this is so much bigger. It is and then you just turn 50, which now I hear you saying more stuff more because once you turn 50, you don't care.

1:13:49 Yep. That's what happened. So I'm 52. You just turn 50. See that? So now you just tell people, you know. So that's the freedom that I feel. That's what you're feeling. Okay. And I'm here to tell you that's your older brother. I like it. I like it. I like it. Yeah. Yeah. So let's just say here's what here's here's this is amazing. So you have a ministry called Lyman, but you're not a Lyman. You will you were wearing cowboy boots Saturday, but you're not a cowboy. I got a hat in my bag right now that says cowboy hat, and it's a trucker hat. It's a trucker hat. Yes. So because you're way cooler than me, what is tell me what what is the deal behind a black hat that says a cowboy hat?

1:14:32 Where does this come? What genre, what genre of coolness is are you originating this from? Or is this a this is European. No, wait, is this European? No, I don't know. I'll make it up. Wait, is this kind of OG coolness? Or are you emulating this? Just help me. Whatever my wife lays on the bed is what I wear. Okay, so why it's Onique. This is a big transparent moment for all the podcast people. You and your core do not have an inner core coolness. Zero. I'm wearing sweats every day. Basketball dresser. Hands bad. You do sweatpants. No doubt. All day long all day long. So my wife has been in a prison.

1:15:13 She's been in those outfits we see you in. Yes, I'm in this and I'm like, I'm happy to know that. I'm like, honey, I look like a fool. This is too fashion born here, honey. It's good. She goes, no, it's fresh. It's fresh. And then one time she did this. I'm not lying. Uh she I put she put the outfit together. I put it on. She goes, no, no, take that off. Put this on. I put it on. She looked at it and she went. My work is finished. So this helps me a lot because honestly, I'm like, why is why is Earl so cool? And I'm not. But the real fact is, it's all coming to zero.

1:15:55 Let me look at a camera. Give me a camera. None of this is true. This guy is so cool. This is Fort Worth cool all day. Man of God. I want you to know. Thank you for doing this. I know there are people out there getting in more inside track into your heart because you're so such a great communicator and leader, but just catching just a glimpse of your heart. Love you. I love you. You're my friend. Thank you for being there. Thankful for you. Thank you for pushing me forward. Thank you. If I go crazy, you're gonna come put me in a headline. And I will come put you in a headline. Thank you. We're in this together. We're in this together. Yeah. Love you, my man. I want to say thank you for checking out this episode of the Lead to Win podcast.

1:16:38 I want you to know that I love and my team loves getting this kind of content into your life so it can help you lead and win at what matters most. So I'd love for you to do me a favor like, comment, especially subscribe if you would, so that we can make sure that we're able to get to you some of the things that are gonna help you lead to win.