Jan. 19, 2026

Earl McClellan on The Power of Honor

Earl McClellan on The Power of Honor
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Honor isn’t outdated—it’s essential. In this episode of Lead to Win, Pastor Jeff Little sits down with Earl McClellan to explore why honor is one of the most overlooked—and most powerful—forces in leadership today.

They unpack how honor shapes culture, strengthens trust, and determines whether teams thrive or fracture under pressure. You’ll hear practical insights on leading with humility, honoring people even when it’s difficult, and building environments where respect fuels growth.

This conversation will challenge the way you lead—and remind you why honor always matters.

TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Cold Open And Defining Friendship
2:56 - The Box Lunch Revival Story
5:10 - Laughter, Men’s Event, And Influence
9:20 - Parenting Wisdom And Roles At Home
13:15 - Culture Over Strategy And Tone
19:30 - Receiving Honor Without Pride
25:05 - Laying Down Crowns And Guardrails
30:40 - Jesus-Centered Leadership And Discipleship
36:20 - Seeds Of Honor From A Single-Mom Story
42:10 - Formative Years As An Executive Pastor
48:05 - Timing, Submission, And Leaving Well
54:40 - The Real Test: Character Over Platform
1:01:20 - Biggest Surprise Of Senior Leadership
1:07:10 - Growth, Grit, And Eternal Stakes
1:14:00 - Humor, Style, And Closing Commitments

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00:00 - Cold Open And Defining Friendship

02:56 - The Box Lunch Revival Story

05:10 - Laughter, Men’s Event, And Influence

09:20 - Parenting Wisdom And Roles At Home

13:15 - Culture Over Strategy And Tone

19:30 - Receiving Honor Without Pride

25:05 - Laying Down Crowns And Guardrails

30:40 - Jesus-Centered Leadership And Discipleship

36:20 - Seeds Of Honor From A Single-Mom Story

42:10 - Formative Years As An Executive Pastor

48:05 - Timing, Submission, And Leaving Well

54:40 - The Real Test: Character Over Platform

01:01:20 - Biggest Surprise Of Senior Leadership

01:07:10 - Growth, Grit, And Eternal Stakes

01:14:00 - Humor, Style, And Closing Commitments

WEBVTT

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Well, I want to welcome you back to the Lead to Win podcast.

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We just wrapped an incredible episode with Pastor Earl McClellan.

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Oh man, I love him.

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It was hilarious.

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So funny.

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I think one of my favorite parts of the whole episode was just seeing two guys.

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I mean, you're both bald, you know, anointed pastors in our city, but just honestly the friendship that you guys have, you can tell you guys are friends, you're connected, and I just thought hearing his story was so powerful.

00:00:27.839 --> 00:00:28.559
Oh gosh.

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Raised by a single mom, you know, if you're not familiar with Earl, senior pastor of Shoreline City Church in Dallas, Texas, multiple campuses, international campuses, but really through the last probably five or six years, probably one of the biggest online, you know, he just really has a broad reach from a preaching perspective.

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I mean, he's preached at the largest churches in the country and is loved by everybody.

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But I wanted to dig in behind the scenes of childhood, where he how he raised in Providence, Rhode Island, years as an executive pastor.

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So I think any leader, when you see someone like him who's making the impact that they're making, you're always asking, who is this guy really?

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Right.

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Where does he come from?

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What kind of struggles did he have?

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I think, and I would encourage everybody, the latter part of what we talked about is so rich.

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You want to watch every bit of this content.

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Well, I'm so excited for you get to check out this episode now.

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Let's tune in right now.

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Earl, in all good relationships, okay, you always have a defining moment that you look back and go, we were there when that happened.

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Okay.

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So let me, let me, let me I know where you're going.

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You know where I'm going.

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Let me set the stage, okay?

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And so I had you come and speak at this important event.

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I had all these leaders gathered.

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I mean, this is a very important thing, okay?

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And so you were speaking after we had this prominent man of uh legend.

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Legend.

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And to be honest, he was not on the speaking deal.

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He was not, he was not, he just called me that morning and said, I'm coming.

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And so he's standing there and he goes, I got some things to share.

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And I'm like, he's in the category.

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We go, okay, just get the mic.

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You think I'm gonna tell you no?

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Exactly.

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So he's up there, he's painting this picture of God's kindness.

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I mean, he's using all kinds of metaphors, and he's on his knees.

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And so it we happened to have a break.

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Yeah.

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And what happened at the break?

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We gave everybody some food.

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Everybody, this is this was so funny.

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Everybody has a box lunch on their lap.

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Okay, so we had just come in from the break.

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We have the box lunch, and he feels like he has this on his heart, which is beautiful.

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Again, we're going to defer to you.

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You're like Moses in our generation.

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You can have the moment.

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But we all have our box lunch and we haven't eaten.

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So all of us are in there.

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We've opened our box lunches, and there's a sandwich, a chicken sandwich, and there's chips.

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Chips.

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And we're all we're eating, but he's on his knees, like weeping for the lost.

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Well, it was it was like the the the you know, humble yourself before God and he will exalt you, you know.

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And so it was this whole idea of kind of repentance of like a Old Testament prophet like calling people to repentance on his knees weeping.

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And we have chips in our head, and we're going every time let the tear drop.

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You hear everybody just eating their food, or like this moment where it's not right.

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Like you're watching a movie, and so of course, you classic style.

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And see, he, like every prophet, gave his deposit and left out the side door.

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And so then everybody adjusts like what just happened, and of course, you we were rolling.

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Earl gets up there.

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He says, I don't know about y'all, but I mean, I had some real mixed feelings in my soul.

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It's like this man's pouring his heart out, we're all the my head is hurting right now.

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I remember that, and I remember looking over at you.

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You were in the corner there next to your wife.

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You're dying like crying.

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I'm crying, and it was like that church laugh where you're gonna get in trouble and it's all bottled up.

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Your shoulders are going.

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That was a great moment.

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Okay, so I know people have tuned into the Lead to Win podcast to get some help today, but you and I both know wherever they're listening from in their car or whatever, we could just sit here and tell story after story because we love to laugh.

00:04:54.639 --> 00:04:59.920
Yeah, we love, I mean, we, you know, it's like I think people take life too serious, quite honestly.

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Like if you can't laugh at yourself, yeah, if you can't laugh, I mean, for me, a lot of times when it's real painful, the best thing to do is be like laugh at it because human beings by nature are funny.

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For sure.

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But I want to I want to talk about you know, our friendship and relationship.

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I just spoke at your men's event.

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Thank you for coming too.

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You crushed it.

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It was it was uh it was just amazing the men that were gathered now.

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Back to we're gonna get off track.

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My opening line was the name of your men is lineman.

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Okay, so I'm standing there worshiping, okay?

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And I got up and I was like, okay, wait a minute.

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Earl played point guard in college.

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I did.

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He's a free safety or a wide receiver, not even a slot.

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He ain't even a slot person, okay?

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Here's I I told him, I was like, since you're gonna call yourself lineman, I want to introduce you.

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Okay, I play right guard, never got to touch the ball.

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Okay.

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I bought it on a fumble.

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Maybe okay, maybe on a fumble, but it's like just hey, do your job.

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So that's why we had you come in.

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We hadn't had a men's event.

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We do the Connect groups, right?

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We had a men's event for a couple of years, and the guys are really asking for it.

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And I just was like, man, you know, I don't know.

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I want it to be right.

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You know, I don't I want it to feel right, be right, right timing, not because everybody's asking us.

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And you were the one that needed to be there.

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This without a shadow of a doubt, the gift that you have, uh not just leadership, pastor, obviously your husband, father, all of those things.

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But you really have a gifting and an anointing with men, you know, and uh what I loved, my wife and I have talked about this, your ability to connect with the business leader and your ability to connect with the teenager.

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It was it was all of those, you know, and you weren't just focused on one or the other, obviously sharing your story, but you were trying to pull everybody up, yeah.

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Not trying to get down on whatever level they might be in.

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Um, it was really remarkable, and the men in our church are so fired up and so thankful.

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I don't know if I can have anybody else next time.

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I might have to have you come back.

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It just was so spot on and exactly what we needed.

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And you obviously have a great dad feel to you, you have a great strength to you, but you're also so incredibly um wise.

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And I learned probably some of that is from your dad, you know, having you read Proverbs.

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Um, but there's a lot of wisdom that you have, but you also package it in, hey guys, I'm just like you, and we're all in this together because that's what you genuinely feel.

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You know, you don't have some like air you're putting on.

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And it just administered to us deeply, pushed us all forward, pushed me forward and be famous in your own house.

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I love that line.

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Uh giving the guys permission to not um chase after money.

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Right.

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That was so, so good.

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I just go down the line, thing after thing after thing, the guys were saying, and I what I felt, even just writing in my own journal, writing in my own notes, like, hey Earl, make sure you stay intentional with your kids.

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Uh stay very, very intentional.

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I know I'm with them and I'm at the games, and you know, I do all this stuff, but I just want to make sure my heart stayed intentional as well.

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So you you push this forward.

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Thank you.

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That is so that's so encouraging.

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And and really, that's what this format sort of came out of.

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And what I'm hearing from a lot of people is, you know, you and I, you know, you, Onika, Brandy, and I love y'all so much.

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We go out, we you know, we I I think sometimes people wonder what would Earl McClellan and Jeff Little talk about?

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What would if we got our wives there?

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What are we talking about?

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Yeah, and I I thought, what a great format who see people see us in whatever context they see us.

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But what a great format, because if you want to know the truth, I I'm thinking back to at least two times when we were together, we were talking about kids.

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We were talking about we were not talking about sermons.

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No, we were not.

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You were a huge help.

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Um I need to give this advice that you gave to me and Onika.

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It was so good.

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I don't know if you even remember.

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I don't remember this now.

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Okay, we're sitting there, and this is when our oldest son was at the time oh, maybe he's 16 or something like that.

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And Onique and I, you know, we're together in this, and you know, parenting, and you know, I'm all involved, she's all involved.

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You know, I've got we got two boys and a little girl.

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And she and I were kind of hit button heads a little bit on the whole son, he's 16, the discipline, and you know, she's wanting to say this and this, and I'm like, man, I think what needs to be said this way, and when we I should say it this way, and she's like, Oh, how about this?

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And you know, we're not at each other, but it's just like you know, trying to figure out that new rhythm, right?

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Right, right, right.

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And you gave this advice, it was so good.

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You came over, you grabbed your chair, sat there next to O'Neak, and said, Hey, Onika, you take the spot where you sit next to your son, put your arm around him and just keep on reminding him how great a young man he is.

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And then you let Earl come over here and do all of this.

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I'm getting on you, I'll keep pushing you forward, challenging you, encouraging you.

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And that little tweak, we were obviously already encouraging him, already loved him, we're you know, praying for him, all those things.

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But that tweak of just that imagery of coming around the table, it helped us in our marriage so much, helped us in our communication, uh, brought more peace to the home.

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And I just want to say, you know, thank you for that.

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Again, that's a small thing, but I wanted to share that because I think there could be some people watching this and you're trying to navigate like what do I do with my kids?

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12 is different than 16.

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Eight is different than 20.

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You know, it's just different seasons.

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I had a whole plan of what we could talk about, but I will say just a caveat because I think, you know, at the end of the day, you're you're you're looking to get better, and there's so much available advice in so many spaces.

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But I find people who are listening to podcasts to get better with their team or you know, do better in ministry or or have a bigger youth group.

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This is a point where we don't get a lot of help either.

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We don't there's not a lot of like we're all a I've had I've shared this and I'll share this with you, which really is meaningful for me for you to tell me that uh my kids are now getting older and getting married, but I would have so much warfare around writing about parenting.

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I had probably a bit of like the enemy, a bit of fear because I didn't want to position myself like I mean, I'm I'm in the game still, exactly.

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I'm not trying to, I'm not, I'm not trying to figure out all that.

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But then I felt such a burden of responsibility in that I grew up with parents who love God, who stayed married, who walked together.

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I'm not putting that out there that that has to be the standard for everybody, but I'm I'm speaking from a place that I feel a stewardship to go, hey, I've been the recipient of so much.

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I need to offer this to these younger people coming behind me.

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I totally agree.

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And the way you do that too, with such humility and kindness.

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And I know sometimes a person that has a story like yours.

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I had two parents, and man, they were for me.

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And if only they love me.

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In our day and age, talk about being sensitive, sometimes that can be disrespected.

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It's like, well, you don't know the struggle and you don't.

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It's like, well, well, don't disrespect my story.

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Right.

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This is the gift that God gave me.

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And this is a gift I've been able to give to my kids because my mom was a single mom.

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You're right?

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I didn't have my dad there.

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You don't want your kids.

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That was your story, but that's not what you're wanting for them.

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Right?

00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:41.039
Exactly.

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So my kids are gonna grow up now and say, I had a dad that was there, a mom that was there, they loved me, they prayed over me, they had me in church to wrap my game, you know, all those different things.

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Well, that's just shaping them into who they've been called to be for them to pass it on.

00:12:52.879 --> 00:13:03.519
And you pioneered that for you for for those coming behind you, which is part of what I want to get into is, you know, um, I think I love to talk about organizational leadership dynamic.

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I mean, you and I, we were talking Saturday about getting people in a grow track and building teams, and you were talking about your staff and some of the things you had worked on.

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But what I love to talk about is, and this is what I think you embody, I think we have so much help in the mechanics, but it's like we we're we're missing kind of the essence of it, right?

00:13:26.559 --> 00:13:30.399
I mean, Peter Drucker years ago said culture eat strategy for breakfast.

00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:30.639
Yeah.

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Now, some people think when you say that that you don't need a plan, right?

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Because hope is not a plan.

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Okay.

00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:40.480
So you got to, you know, of course, Onika has enough strategy for both of you.

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Okay, so we we know that.

00:13:42.159 --> 00:13:43.519
So we got that going.

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But but I want to I want to talk about spirit and I want to talk about heart, and I want to talk about team, and I want to talk about culture because every time I go in your environment, you know, there's a sense, not the weird honor thing, right?

00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:08.159
I'm I'm talking to someone maybe starting out in a family, or maybe the culture of their family has has been maybe they're where you guys were.

00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:11.360
You're doing so much right, hey, we got a little fly in the ointment here.

00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:12.639
We got a little okay.

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What about someone who goes, I just haven't been able to get a team.

00:14:17.919 --> 00:14:22.639
Why does your team love you and want to the number one thing we get when people come here?

00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:26.960
How do you have people that have been here the longevity 20 plus years?

00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:29.360
How how do you guys work together?

00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:35.200
You want you have a desire for excellence and you do things with excellence, but somehow like you've still been there.

00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:38.399
Most of the time, people that maintain excellence aren't good at relationships.

00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:39.279
Yeah, that's the truth.

00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:39.919
No, you're right.

00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:40.320
You're right.

00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:42.559
But this the the pastor heart.

00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:45.200
So I want to I want to dig a bit in your story.

00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:53.279
I love all this stuff because I know you tell the story about being a point guard in college, and a point guard's main role is to get everybody involved.

00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:53.679
That's right.

00:14:53.919 --> 00:14:56.320
Now you don't see yourself as I gotta be the main scorer all the time.

00:14:56.559 --> 00:14:57.120
That's right, right?

00:14:57.200 --> 00:14:58.559
I I was not a scoring point guard.

00:14:58.799 --> 00:14:59.840
You were not a scoring, right?

00:14:59.919 --> 00:15:06.399
So single mom, scoring point guard, worked for years as a number two.

00:15:06.639 --> 00:15:07.039
That's right.

00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:07.360
That's right.

00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:09.360
I think let's talk about spirit and heart.

00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:10.399
Yeah, that's good.

00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:16.000
I remember when you moved here to plant the church, we had a mutual friend, you getting to meet Earl.

00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:16.559
Okay.

00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:21.039
Let's let's talk about when I come into your environment, the men's event.

00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:23.759
This is a week ago now when we're recording this.

00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:34.320
And the men on the stage before we started singing and trying to look cool, and when all the lights and the lasers and everything you got in your building, I thought we might lift off into Mars or something sometime.

00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:37.279
I'm like looking up, there's more stuff in here.

00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:45.200
Hey, let me tell you what a sound guide Earl's church needs: a million more dollars.

00:15:45.440 --> 00:15:54.080
Anyway, just one more million, and Jesus will come personally into our service.

00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:59.440
Angels, cherubim, cherubim will appear if we have one more million, anyways.

00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:06.000
Said every sound person always said every sound person everywhere.

00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:07.200
We love you, sound guys.

00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:07.519
We love you.

00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:08.000
We love you.

00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:09.840
You don't get enough credit.

00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:15.120
But the guys from the stage, man, John, thank you for uh serving.

00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:22.159
You know, they were pointing out, you know, different people, like and it and you have a bigger streaming audience.

00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:28.159
I mean, you have quite a few people watch you from a you know online or playback or whatever.

00:16:28.399 --> 00:16:33.919
So, like when all the lights are on and everything, there's an internal audience, but there's external audience.

00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:41.759
But you actually said this may not make for good TV, yeah, yeah, but it makes for good culture.

00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:48.799
I remember when I taught at your staff meeting, what I was impacted by, I mean, there was because we're a little ahead of you guys.

00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:52.080
Some people listening may not know we're in the same city, right?

00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:52.480
Uh-huh.

00:16:52.559 --> 00:16:52.799
Love it.

00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:55.200
You know, Dallas, Fort Worth, that kind of deal.

00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:57.519
You look more Dallas, I look more Fort Worth.

00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:00.639
Thank you, I think.

00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:02.240
You got a little Dallas sweater.

00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:05.519
Oh no, I got a Dallas sweatshirt.

00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:06.319
Anyway.

00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:07.839
You look good.

00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:08.319
Okay.

00:17:09.119 --> 00:17:13.039
But I but but we're here together, we're a little ahead.

00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:25.440
I would I would say I've actually offered more like like Earl, do this to you, but I'm always I'm always drawn up by your culture.

00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:31.119
And I'm saying, I mean, like the the the people in the staff meeting, it's like they're pulling it, there's a culture.

00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:34.319
You said, man, as we've grown, we've been working on that.

00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:36.880
Let's go back, single mom.

00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:39.839
Why, where, where does this come from in you?

00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:41.920
Because you've chosen a path.

00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:44.079
I want to say this too.

00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:48.480
You're one of the greatest communicators on the planet today.

00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:49.119
You are.

00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:53.920
I mean, I I can I got I I mean, I got one hit men's message, okay?

00:17:54.160 --> 00:18:00.480
On a general, on a general level, people come to hear my jokes.

00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:02.640
It's low revelation, high humor.

00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:03.200
Okay.

00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:06.240
The problem is you have revelation and humor.

00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:10.240
It's true.

00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:13.200
You'll be like we're taking that out of the podcast.

00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:18.480
You pull out something out of the old testament, I'll be like, Earl, I don't know if that's biblical, but it's powerful.

00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:28.079
I don't actually know if that's really in the Bible, but man, I feel the Holy Ghost right now.

00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:33.039
I'm always checking with Chat GPT.

00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:35.440
I don't think I said that.

00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:37.440
Check your messages with Chat GPT.

00:18:37.599 --> 00:18:38.720
Does Chat GPT say?

00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:40.079
Oh, no, it is not.

00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:43.119
It's not even saying, No, you better use your logos Bible software.

00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:46.400
That you need to use don't go to chat.

00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:52.000
I mean, so, but I do believe even as a communicator, you are.

00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:55.680
I mean, when we were at the men's event, you were talking about pornography.

00:18:55.839 --> 00:18:56.640
God can free you.

00:18:56.799 --> 00:18:59.759
You were talking about we were talking about hard subjects, both of us there.

00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:00.319
That's right.

00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:00.640
We were.

00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:07.359
We were not people sometimes, there's this narrative that's like, well, you know, a larger church or these guys who have whatever.

00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:09.200
They're there's we're getting into it.

00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:11.519
We're getting into we call since sin.

00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:11.839
That's right.

00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:12.400
Let's get into it.

00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:13.039
That's right.

00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:14.880
All of sin and falls through the glory of God.

00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:15.920
That's when we need Jesus.

00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:16.559
That's right.

00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:17.119
That's right.

00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:19.680
But it's a lot of it's tone.

00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:20.960
Oh, that's good.

00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:22.160
It's tone.

00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:22.480
Yeah.

00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:35.200
The tone of our culture, what where people argue so much is over you and I can agree on the same facts, but if we speak in a tone, have you been married longer than two weeks?

00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:39.680
You you speak to your wife about something true in the wrong tone, you got a problem.

00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:40.720
That's right, that's right.

00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:44.720
So tell me about from your communication, from your staff.

00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:46.720
Take us back to your story.

00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:48.240
I want you to talk for a few minutes.

00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:48.720
Wow.

00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:59.839
Where did you choose the tone where I'm going to speak truth, but I'm not, I'm not going to be a team leader that's a jerk?

00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:03.839
Yeah like I want to get stuff done, but the people matter to me.

00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:04.880
Yeah, that's right.

00:20:05.119 --> 00:20:11.279
Um because you walk in, I've been in green rooms with you, important people, both of us are the same way.

00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:15.359
We're gonna find, you know, everybody you're all important.

00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:16.720
Everybody's a 10.

00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:17.440
Exactly.

00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:18.000
Exactly.

00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:22.640
Where did this tone of your church, your speaking style, where did all that come from?

00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:26.559
These are great questions, and thank you for that incredibly humbling compliment.

00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:28.160
I definitely don't feel that.

00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:38.640
Uh feel, you know, you feel insecure, you feel like you want to grow so much, you feel like you want to be better, you feel like, man, I I wish I could sharpen this here.

00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:49.920
Um, and I've said this before, I even said at the men's event, you've been a great big brother, even in the city, uh, with how you've led your church, your staff team.

00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:54.960
Uh, we've come over uh for the event, I believe it's still in January, right?

00:20:55.039 --> 00:20:55.200
Yeah.

00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:56.799
Everybody out there should come.

00:20:56.880 --> 00:20:58.319
I mean January 6th, 7th.

00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:00.400
Every year we have it right there in that first part of the year.

00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:01.759
It's phenomenal every single year.

00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:04.319
Lead2Win Leaders Gathering, Lead2Win.com.

00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:05.039
It's so good.

00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:05.440
Yeah.

00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:10.400
Um, but just the way you open up uh your heart for pastors, for teams.

00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:12.640
Uh we've stolen so many things, you know, from y'all.

00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:18.160
We talked about this, the whole growth track, you know, people tracker, you know, I had this in my heart.

00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:20.880
And then you are the first church that I saw that did it.

00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:21.119
Right.

00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:27.680
In a very, at least back then, some would call it archaic, you know, way.

00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:37.519
It's like I'm taking pictures of people and I'm putting their the date, I'm putting their information on there, and we're tracking them along a board.

00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:39.680
You know, this is not just digital.

00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:42.480
This is, I know this person's name and number.

00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:45.200
Discipleship is not a system, it's a person.

00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:45.839
Yes.

00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:47.200
It's a it's a person.

00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:47.920
Totally agree.

00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:51.119
So you guys have gotten all that, but take us back to single mom.

00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:59.519
Like, let tell me, you know, you were reviewing this, like, how do you feel like tell us about your journey and like because your journey has shaped that.

00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:01.119
Some of it's how you're made.

00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:03.839
But I'm talking about honor, really.

00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:06.480
The Bible says outdo one another and showing honor.

00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:10.319
And I know some people hear that and they're like, oh, there it goes again, you know, top of God.

00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:11.599
I was terrible at this.

00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:16.160
I was terrible at receiving any compliments.

00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:18.240
I still don't even feel like I'm great at it.

00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:20.240
We talked about this with our staff yesterday.

00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:21.839
Well, say this thing.

00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:32.079
Um, we have our staff summit uh each year, and the first session of this year's the Lord dropped in my heart uh sayings that shaped us.

00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:33.039
Oh, there you go.

00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:40.240
So we went through and just talked through some sayings that things we say in our church that shaped us.

00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:47.839
But we have new staff that say the same thing, but it doesn't mean what it originally meant.

00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:48.319
Okay.

00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:51.279
One of those things is it's an honor.

00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:52.480
It's an honor.

00:22:53.279 --> 00:23:01.680
You'll you'll come to our staff, somebody will grab you grab something, you know, for you, go grab your coat, you just say thank you, they'll go, oh, it's an honor.

00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:01.920
Right.

00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:03.039
I'll hear that.

00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:32.480
And I was like, I think this has kind of gotten diluted because this came from a place of us understanding I can't even believe God would pick me to be a small part of his epic story to rescue humanity and to save people from their sins, to take them from lost to found, from darkness to light, from blind to seeing.

00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:33.599
What?

00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:38.160
God, you're asking me to be a part of this?

00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:39.039
Yes.

00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:40.720
It's an honor.

00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:41.759
It's an honor.

00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:50.559
The gratitude, the joy, and what was missing, what we kept out of it was familiarity.

00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:51.440
Yeah.

00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:57.039
But now, I just feel like it's an honor, it's kind of becoming a little like, yeah, you're welcome.

00:23:58.000 --> 00:23:58.240
Yeah.

00:23:58.880 --> 00:23:59.680
No problem.

00:23:59.920 --> 00:24:00.160
Yeah.

00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:02.960
It's like, no, no, that's not, that's not what we're doing here.

00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:05.759
We're not taking that and turning it into this.

00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:10.960
Now, initially in the church, I, Jeff, like you, I don't feel like I'm anything.

00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:13.279
You know, I feel like I'm I'm I'm nothing.

00:24:13.359 --> 00:24:17.119
I'm just, I'm Earl, you know, I'm a ball guy, love my wife, love my kids.

00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:18.240
You know, it's beautiful.

00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:19.039
Yes, it is.

00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:19.920
Yes, it is.

00:24:20.079 --> 00:24:23.119
So I just feel like I'm everyday guy, just love people.

00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:26.880
I don't'm not taking myself all that seriously, you know, at all.

00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:33.039
Um, with that, when we started the church, I didn't want anybody in the church to think that I thought I was anything.

00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:33.519
Right.

00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:35.839
I didn't want them to think that I thought I was the man.

00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:36.160
Right.

00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:40.079
So somebody Well, and really the truth is what people don't know behind the scenes.

00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:41.440
I know you felt this.

00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:44.240
I I was a senior pastor earlier than you.

00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:48.000
We we've we have imposter since I mean there's there's time.

00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:50.480
I hope they don't find out that I don't really know what I'm doing.

00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:54.000
Figuring this out every you talk about being when you're a parent.

00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:54.240
Yeah.

00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:55.519
You're preaching on it.

00:24:55.599 --> 00:24:58.880
It's like, guys, I'm still in this right now, okay?

00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:06.799
Everything you're saying today could be nullified by the kids, we've got a long runway here.

00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:12.240
So I'm hoping what I'm saying to you is gonna stick with my kids too, and thankfully they're they're moving the right direction.

00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:15.279
But all of this, we're on the potter's wheel, too.

00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:20.319
So every leader that has been tasked to lead, right?

00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:26.319
We are under the same pressure that those who we are leading are under.

00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:28.480
It's just different, but we're still under pressure.

00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:30.880
And I'm and I was joking about your communication.

00:25:31.039 --> 00:25:33.599
I mean, you're very much a very good Bible teacher.

00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:37.039
I'm anchored to the, I mean, at the end of the day, we we're gonna preach the word.

00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:37.680
Yeah, exactly.

00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:42.240
Because whether it's working at my house or not, or wherever the word still works.

00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:46.720
So we are preaching the word of the living God and let it preach.

00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:48.240
That's right, that's right, that's right.

00:25:48.480 --> 00:26:00.240
But we are on the leadership side, and and again, I've been doing this 30 years, and I would say the last six or seven, you find yourself even more so because of the world.

00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:04.240
We were joking, AI, chat GPT, yeah, the world going crazy.

00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:12.400
Like there's we found ourselves in the last six or seven years, too, with literally you're you're going.

00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:23.680
I felt like it was talking about wisdom, the story of Solomon where two moms said, It's it's our baby, and Solomon's like, well, split it in half, and the real mom said, you know, that's right.

00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:28.640
It's I felt like I was in a bunch of two moms and one baby moments.

00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:34.160
Where, and then, of course, somebody who's in the bleachers, they're not in the game.

00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:35.039
They're not in the game.

00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:35.680
Yeah, yeah.

00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:41.119
I mean, my son played high school football, you know, in high he's he's been out of high school, so I forgot.

00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:43.920
I went to a game the other night, and it's amazing how many people in the stands.

00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:45.200
You're such great coaches.

00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:46.000
Yeah, that's right.

00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:46.880
That's right.

00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:50.480
It's like no, you haven't built anything, but then you're superimposing on me.

00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:54.160
Yeah, you know, you're scared to say this, you're scared to do that, or whatever.

00:26:54.480 --> 00:27:06.000
But I think when you have a heart to bring lost people to bring, I was telling you, I respect you so much, the diversity of your church.

00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:13.359
Like, I mean, it it's like I told you this Saturday because I preached there, Latinos, like I'm not diversity.

00:27:13.759 --> 00:27:15.119
Remember, it's miraculous.

00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:16.720
It's miraculous, it is, right?

00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:18.640
Because it's not our church, but it's beautiful.

00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:21.920
I'm a white pastor saying you have a black church.

00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:24.240
Yeah, no, it's white, black, Latino.

00:27:24.559 --> 00:27:27.200
Honestly, I think in our city it's the most diverse.

00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:30.400
That would be my opinion, but I don't there may be one out there I don't know about.

00:27:31.039 --> 00:27:39.519
But um, so when you have that, you you know, you're you're leading and you're like, okay, everyone's coming from a different context.

00:27:39.759 --> 00:27:41.759
Yeah, we don't compromise the word.

00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:43.359
We're not oh that that can't change.

00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:44.240
That can't change.

00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:45.440
We're not changing that.

00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:46.319
Unchanging.

00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:46.960
That's right.

00:27:47.119 --> 00:27:57.839
But I think so, even leading with wisdom in a in a very complex world that is very polarized because your phone feeds you one message.

00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:01.839
Like I meet so many people today to go, you do know there's another viewpoint to that.

00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:02.079
Yeah.

00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:04.480
And then I tell them and they go, those people are crazy.

00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:07.039
We know they're crazy.

00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:11.119
We we know you're perfect, but I mean that we know that, okay?

00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:12.640
We've we've already defined that.

00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:14.240
This is so real, Jeff.

00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:17.119
When you're saying this, it is so spot on.

00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:20.480
And uh probably every leader listening to this right now is like, thank you.

00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:25.200
You know, you're soothing their souls because we are in this pressure cooker.

00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:28.640
But even getting back to what you were talking about with the honor piece, I think.

00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:29.839
I think they're connected.

00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:31.359
I think they're it's all connected.

00:28:31.599 --> 00:28:31.759
It is.

00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:32.319
It is.

00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:38.400
It's that whole we would say it uh uh at our church like this: there you are versus here I am.

00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:38.880
Okay.

00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:41.759
This it's one of our sayings that have shaped this as well.

00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:42.160
Okay.

00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:43.680
There you are versus here I am.

00:28:43.839 --> 00:28:46.880
So when I'm walking into a room like you talked about earlier, there you are.

00:28:47.119 --> 00:28:47.920
There you go.

00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:49.279
Not here I am.

00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:49.839
Uh-huh.

00:28:50.240 --> 00:28:52.960
Um I'm trying to find out what's your story, where are you from?

00:28:53.119 --> 00:28:53.200
Yes.

00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:55.200
Uh tell me what makes you tick.

00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:56.559
Uh, what can I learn from you?

00:28:56.720 --> 00:28:58.319
There you are versus here I am.

00:28:58.480 --> 00:29:03.839
And we live in a day, maybe there's a lot of here I am, and then also there's a lot of insecurity with here I am.

00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:09.119
I feel like I gotta walk into the room and I gotta prove to everybody that I'm this or I'm that.

00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:10.960
And I'm like, man, it's not worth it.

00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:12.000
It is tiring.

00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:16.640
All of us are trying to figure out who we are anyway in the in in Christ.

00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:18.319
So let's just keep on growing and maturing.

00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:20.559
So I'm gonna walk into a room and go, there you are.

00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:24.000
I had no problem living that way with others.

00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:24.480
Okay.

00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:27.759
I had a very difficult problem living, receiving that.

00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:28.799
Receiving it, yeah.

00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:33.279
So it was since I wasn't able to receive it in our church, I actually killed our culture of honor.

00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:34.079
Okay, yeah, there you go.

00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:36.160
It actually started to take, I took it out.

00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:37.279
It was not there.

00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:40.400
There's an appropriate level to that's my pastor.

00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:44.079
Yeah, there's an appropriate level to the I thank God for my.

00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:48.799
I mean, I have m the same pastors, same wife, different dog.

00:29:49.039 --> 00:29:50.400
You can have him, I hate him.

00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:53.839
But but I but my pastors I call pastor.

00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:54.240
Yeah.

00:29:54.880 --> 00:29:56.400
I know different cultures don't do that.

00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:57.039
Yeah, for sure.

00:29:57.119 --> 00:30:02.000
Yeah, it doesn't like a requirement or like, you know, we call Jesus by his first name, so you can call by the case.

00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:03.279
You can, no, it's not a big deal.

00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:05.279
It's but I'm doing that for me.

00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:06.079
Agreed.

00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:06.720
Not for them.

00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:09.200
Because they'll be like, look, I know, no, no, no, no.

00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:11.119
I have lots of friends.

00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:16.079
And and and you know, and and and and there can be a familial dialogue, yeah.

00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:21.839
But when I'm referencing, I'm reminding myself this person holds a different place in my life.

00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:22.240
That's right.

00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:24.799
There's a place of a place of honor, place of respect.

00:30:25.119 --> 00:30:31.200
And when you give that, and again, we've all some of us have seen the negatives and the downside of that.

00:30:31.359 --> 00:30:32.559
So we're not talking about that.

00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:35.359
We're saying, are you made in the image of God?

00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:36.160
Yes.

00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:45.599
Did Jesus Christ die for you, give you a calling, uh, give you gifts and talents and abilities, put you on this earth for a reason and an assignment?

00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:46.079
Yes.

00:30:46.160 --> 00:30:49.039
So I'm gonna treat you in alignment with that.

00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:49.680
I love it.

00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:55.839
And then if somebody gives that back to me, I have to be willing to receive that.

00:30:56.000 --> 00:30:56.160
Right.

00:30:56.400 --> 00:31:02.079
Because when I wasn't, I was taking out the culture of honor in the church and was impacting how people were treating each other.

00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:02.400
Okay.

00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:08.799
So I had to be willing to receive it so then everybody it could be allowed to flourish in the church.

00:31:09.599 --> 00:31:10.400
You become aware of that.

00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:12.240
You you were you've referred to that two or three times.

00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:13.200
I couldn't receive it.

00:31:13.359 --> 00:31:25.519
You were you, and I sense what you're saying is I I pushed that down and deflected it because I didn't want this weird thing where I Bishop Earl, everybody walks in, entourage, bow down to him.

00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:26.480
That's right, we're not doing that.

00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:33.599
Really wanted to have a place where everyone was part of the family, we're all the same, same, same, I have the same heart.

00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:36.720
How did you find out that you had that problem?

00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:38.799
Two two uh two things.

00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:48.720
Uh, one is I had a friend come through, and the friend, after he sat through the services, was like, huh.

00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:50.960
I noticed something unique.

00:31:51.119 --> 00:32:00.640
You and Onika are very, very honoring of others, but I didn't hear that language in the church at all.

00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:05.759
This is where maybe three years old at the time, maybe two years old, something like that, as a church.

00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:16.160
And we started unwrapping, and it took him coming from another perspective, coming in from the outside, and I said, Oh man, I I did this unintentionally.

00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:16.559
Okay.

00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:21.279
Unintentionally trying to create a culture of, hey, we're all just in this together.

00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:25.839
I started to squelch something that actually helps miracles happen.

00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:29.599
Yeah, it actually pulls the potential that God put in people out of them.

00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:33.200
It actually helps people develop and grow and mature.

00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:38.079
It actually shows people the beauty of the cross of Jesus Christ and what God has done for them.

00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:42.640
And I decided because of my own insecurities.

00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:43.279
Right.

00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:45.440
Not because of the Lord.

00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:50.720
It was my own sin, my own pride, my own, I didn't want people to see me incorrectly.

00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:50.880
Right.

00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:56.480
That I was squelching this and stopping our people from being able to be all that God had called them to be.

00:32:56.640 --> 00:32:57.680
And these are God's kids.

00:32:57.759 --> 00:32:59.920
Since these are God's kids, I want them to flourish.

00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:06.079
So that friend helped me tremendously with just getting another perspective.

00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:06.720
Love it.

00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:08.640
Um that was that was one key.

00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:17.920
Then the other one was just my own spiritual journey of just knowing, you know, I got my own issues I'm dealing with and things I'm fighting through and working through.

00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:20.720
Um even this, um, this sounds weird.

00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:27.759
I'm no, you know, I wrote a book, and in my book, uh, you know, it's actually really good.

00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:31.039
I didn't want to I didn't want to segue like that.

00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:35.119
But my book really actually, it's it is about this struggle.

00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:42.880
It's about I am God saying this thing to me, and I'm going, No, you're not right, God.

00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:44.160
You picked the wrong person.

00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:46.799
Moses, you refer to that in there.

00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:47.440
Yeah, yeah.

00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:50.720
You can't be, you can't be picking the right person here.

00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:51.920
What's the title of the book?

00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:53.440
Uh it is called Get Your Spirit Back.

00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:54.240
Get Your Spirit Back.

00:33:54.480 --> 00:33:55.119
Yeah, walking through Speaker.

00:33:56.720 --> 00:33:57.519
I haven't read it yet.

00:33:57.759 --> 00:33:58.720
Get Your Spirit Back.

00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:00.799
And and so it's wherever books are sold, we can't.

00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:01.519
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:03.279
But I definitely don't bring it up for that reason.

00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:08.960
No, I want people, so it's it's a it's a book on, which is really the root of all this.

00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:16.239
You know, you you say I don't want to be like my dad or my mom or whatever, but we're products of the cultures we're in.

00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:18.000
So we lean one way or the other.

00:34:18.079 --> 00:34:20.320
And I want to make this really practical.

00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:23.920
Again, I think you're an amazing communicator.

00:34:24.400 --> 00:34:27.679
Um, I think everybody listening to me is a communicator.

00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:30.320
They're they may not communicate from the stage where I do.

00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:31.360
But they have a stage.

00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:33.679
But they have a stage, they have a home, they have a team.

00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:43.360
And what you're saying is how I see that person I'm communicating to, it impacts my message to them and where they receive it.

00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:46.800
And I think that's why people receive from you because of that heart.

00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:52.320
Man, I Earl, man, he loves he you're lifting in there, and I'm I'm coming with you, right?

00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:59.679
And so I get that, but but whatever you're strong at can also create your weakness.

00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:02.880
So communication, yeah, team building.

00:35:03.039 --> 00:35:06.559
Some people out there, I we talk I talk a lot about teams because it's the number one question I get.

00:35:06.719 --> 00:35:07.840
I can't get my team.

00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:13.280
You know, John Maxwell, he who thinks he leads but has no followers is only taking a walk, right?

00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:15.199
So a lot of people are struggling today.

00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:21.920
So you may be on the side of what I'm hearing you say, which is a different perspective based on your strength.

00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:26.559
We harp on the person who is positional.

00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:29.119
Everybody's like, that's obvious.

00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:30.639
Nobody wants to follow a jerk.

00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:31.039
That's right.

00:35:31.360 --> 00:35:34.239
Like, you don't care about anybody else, you're not valuing them.

00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:38.800
But what you're equally saying is this is very insightful.

00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:46.719
You can also fall in the trap to losing the perspective that Paul said, follow me as I follow the Lord.

00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:51.119
Like there's an element to where you realize, yeah, set an example.

00:35:51.199 --> 00:35:55.119
That's don't let anyone look down upon you because you're young, but you do have to set an example.

00:35:55.519 --> 00:35:55.920
You do.

00:35:56.079 --> 00:35:57.599
And and and and I told someone.

00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:00.480
And be willing to be misinterpreted and misunderstood.

00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:01.519
And that was the problem.

00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:10.960
Sorry to interrupt you, that I was having because you you I'm gonna set the example, and then somebody thinks you're setting the example because you're trying to prop yourself up.

00:36:11.039 --> 00:36:12.159
And it's like, no, no, no.

00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:16.079
Actually, I I don't, I'm not trying to prop myself up in the battle.

00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:36.159
What keeps me grounded, and again, I tell the staff this uh Revelation chapter 4, there's 24 elders that are around the throne, they're all worshiping, and it the Bible tells us that they take off their crowns and they say, You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory, honor, and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.

00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:41.039
So, at the end of the day, I used to do this all the time after I preached.

00:36:41.119 --> 00:37:00.800
Um, I don't I don't do it every single time now, but I would go home after the compliments and I would get on my knees and I would put my hands on my bald head, take off the crowns that people had given me, and I would be on my knees and I would say, You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory, honor, and power.

00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:05.599
I would quote that verse, just seeing myself laying down those crowns.

00:37:05.679 --> 00:37:07.679
So I'm trying to go to bed crownless.

00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:08.320
There you go.

00:37:08.559 --> 00:37:09.440
Every single night.

00:37:09.519 --> 00:37:11.360
I want to go to bed crownless.

00:37:11.440 --> 00:37:14.320
So the people will try to put it on you, and I recognize that.

00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:18.559
Uh, but this is what they did with Jesus, this is what they did with uh the apostles, this is what they did with Paul.

00:37:18.639 --> 00:37:19.599
I mean, go down the line.

00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:22.480
They they the the society will try to do that to us.

00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:23.039
Yes, it will be.

00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:27.519
But we got to be the ones that go, I know who's this is all borrowed clothing.

00:37:28.239 --> 00:37:29.360
You like this outfit?

00:37:29.440 --> 00:37:30.639
It's not even mine.

00:37:31.039 --> 00:37:33.199
God gave me this outfit, okay?

00:37:33.360 --> 00:37:37.039
Everything that you like about me, it's from his closet, okay?

00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:38.639
It's going back anyway.

00:37:38.719 --> 00:37:39.920
These aren't my shoes.

00:37:40.079 --> 00:37:41.039
These are his shoes.

00:37:41.199 --> 00:37:43.199
These aren't even my gifts per se.

00:37:43.360 --> 00:37:44.320
These are his gifts.

00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:46.159
So I'm gonna keep laying that down.

00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:50.719
But that spirit, that heart, I do think I'm trying to, you know, I pray I keep it.

00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:52.159
And you know, Jeff, I give you permission.

00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:53.440
You ever see me getting off?

00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:56.800
You know, speak into my life, help me make sure I stay on the right path.

00:37:56.880 --> 00:37:57.840
You know, I want to.

00:37:58.000 --> 00:37:58.559
I want to do that.

00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:00.079
You ever ask that question sometimes?

00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:06.880
People that get off, and it's like they are, it's just like, man, there's this, it's this, their pride goes before the fall.

00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:10.159
And you kind of go, is anybody talking to them?

00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:12.000
You ever you ever have that thought?

00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:12.960
Oh my gosh, yes.

00:38:13.119 --> 00:38:15.039
I go, who's talking to them?

00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:23.519
A lot of times, if someone's listening, you know, it's it's kind of like with David, you know, the prophet comes and he goes, Well, you are that guy.

00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:24.400
You are the guy.

00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:27.440
So you have to keep the fear of the Lord to go.

00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:30.880
And I and that's what I do, what you just did.

00:38:31.360 --> 00:38:40.639
I'm not giving somebody that's built nothing and contributed nothing the right to superimpose on me a definition of me that's not true.

00:38:41.039 --> 00:38:42.079
I'm not giving that right to me.

00:38:43.519 --> 00:38:48.880
I'm not gonna receive the praise, or I'm not gonna receive your definition of my motives.

00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:49.199
Wow.

00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:50.480
Well, you're this or you're that.

00:38:50.559 --> 00:38:52.719
We could make we just identify people now today.

00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:54.639
He's a this, he's a that, he's a whatever.

00:38:54.880 --> 00:38:55.599
Hold on, okay.

00:38:55.760 --> 00:38:57.119
I'm not doing either one.

00:38:57.199 --> 00:38:58.400
I'm not as good as you think.

00:38:58.559 --> 00:38:58.880
Yeah, yeah.

00:38:59.119 --> 00:39:00.880
And I'm actually not as evil as you think.

00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:06.239
Actually, if you sat at the table with us and you heard all the context, you'd be like, oh, that makes a lot of sense.

00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:07.280
Yeah, it's really good.

00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:08.320
We lose sight today.

00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:09.280
We don't have a lot of context.

00:39:09.679 --> 00:39:10.400
Oh, no, we have clips.

00:39:10.719 --> 00:39:12.719
We have clips we don't know.

00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:25.119
But but but I will say, you know, I'm not either one of those, but I am also who God's I'm I'm I'm stewarding what God has given me to steward.

00:39:25.360 --> 00:39:26.880
And as long as I keep that perspective.

00:39:26.960 --> 00:39:31.280
But what I do though is I tell people, I have a handful of people like that.

00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:31.920
Please.

00:39:32.079 --> 00:39:32.639
Yeah, that's right.

00:39:32.800 --> 00:39:33.119
That's right.

00:39:33.280 --> 00:39:34.320
Please, just come and tell me.

00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:35.199
We're in the same city.

00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:38.239
So if you get this vibe, Jeff is going crazy.

00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:39.599
What's he talking about?

00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:41.280
He abandoned the scriptures.

00:39:41.599 --> 00:39:42.159
Come over here.

00:39:42.400 --> 00:39:42.719
That's right.

00:39:42.880 --> 00:39:45.280
Put me in a headlock and check me.

00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:46.320
You know.

00:39:46.639 --> 00:39:47.840
Brandy will do it before me.

00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:48.559
That's really true.

00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:48.960
For sure.

00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:50.559
Her strength finder is belief.

00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:54.880
So I've always told people I get in sin, she'll stand up on Sunday and go, Jeff can't preach today.

00:39:57.679 --> 00:39:58.639
Sorry, guys.

00:39:58.960 --> 00:39:59.280
Sorry.

00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:01.519
Not qualified.

00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:03.519
But you need that.

00:40:03.679 --> 00:40:05.039
Can anybody tell you no?

00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:05.440
Oh.

00:40:06.079 --> 00:40:08.800
Can anybody come in your life and go, I love you?

00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:09.360
Nope.

00:40:09.679 --> 00:40:10.800
But don't do that.

00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:11.199
Nope.

00:40:11.280 --> 00:40:12.000
That's incorrect.

00:40:12.079 --> 00:40:13.199
That's that's the wrong path.

00:40:13.280 --> 00:40:14.880
It's not even be sin.

00:40:14.960 --> 00:40:15.840
That might just be a weight.

00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:17.519
It's just or it's just not wise.

00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:18.159
It's not wise.

00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:19.199
It's just not wise.

00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:20.559
That's a foolish strategy.

00:40:20.880 --> 00:40:21.360
Totally agree.

00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:28.880
But a lot of people today abandon very fundamental things that hurt people for clicks, four things.

00:40:29.199 --> 00:40:29.760
Oh, for sure.

00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:30.320
For sure.

00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:32.480
This will get it faster.

00:40:32.719 --> 00:40:34.800
Why am I asking this about honor, right?

00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:42.480
Like, because you can be more critical, more dishonorable, more narrow, less holistic.

00:40:42.639 --> 00:40:43.039
Yeah.

00:40:43.360 --> 00:40:45.519
And that's actually how you build a brand.

00:40:45.840 --> 00:40:47.039
Oh my goodness.

00:40:48.960 --> 00:40:56.400
I don't know how deep we want to get into this, but you know, Jeff, we live in a day that if okay, I'll say it this way.

00:40:56.719 --> 00:41:01.440
The line I'm going to draw, and I know you're with me on this one.

00:41:02.159 --> 00:41:03.039
We're Jesus.

00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:04.000
We're Jesus people.

00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:05.519
We talked about this on Saturday.

00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:06.239
Here's my line.

00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:07.039
It's about Jesus.

00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:07.679
It's Jesus.

00:41:07.840 --> 00:41:08.159
Exactly.

00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:09.840
Him and him crucified.

00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:12.639
Now, does that mean there are other issues that we don't need to talk about?

00:41:12.800 --> 00:41:25.039
Of course, we're talking, we're going to talk about everything that we need to talk about in Scripture, but the world is trying to tell the church what we're supposed to preach and how we're supposed to preach it.

00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:26.159
No, no, no, no, no.

00:41:26.239 --> 00:41:26.559
I'm sorry.

00:41:26.639 --> 00:41:33.199
When the day comes, I'm standing before God, and He is not asking, How large was your church?

00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:34.559
He's not asking me that question.

00:41:34.639 --> 00:41:36.159
That's not going to be the question he's asking.

00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:37.760
He's not asking, did people like you?

00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:40.079
He's not going to ask me that question.

00:41:40.480 --> 00:41:45.519
We're going to be talking about how did you steward the people that I put in your care?

00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:55.039
Did you turn them into as best you possibly could, partnering with the Holy Spirit, into Christ-like followers that were going to be discipled and loved and growing?

00:41:55.119 --> 00:42:01.840
And then by disciple, I'm not saying I'm just receiving, because that's a whole nother thing we can get into that people now want to tell you, disciple me.

00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:04.880
And I just mean somebody's pouring into me, but they're not pouring into anybody else.

00:42:05.360 --> 00:42:06.079
I'm a disciple.

00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:07.039
Thank you.

00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:07.920
Thank you.

00:42:08.800 --> 00:42:10.719
That's not what Jesus was saying here, people.

00:42:10.960 --> 00:42:13.360
Well, and that's that's the word human nature to get in the ditch.

00:42:13.519 --> 00:42:15.440
Well, we're just all real healthy growing disciples.

00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:15.920
Wait a minute.

00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:17.840
If you're disciples of Christ, you know how to fish.

00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:19.039
He said you're going to fish for men.

00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:20.639
His disciples went fishing for people.

00:42:21.039 --> 00:42:21.440
So show me.

00:42:23.199 --> 00:42:23.679
Who are the people?

00:42:24.639 --> 00:42:25.760
Where is the people who are impact?

00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:27.280
Where are you pouring into then?

00:42:27.440 --> 00:42:29.920
You got to be some, there's got to be some people that you're pouring into, right?

00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:30.880
You guys are being disciple.

00:42:31.039 --> 00:42:31.119
Right.

00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:32.400
Then you're not doing it right.

00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:32.639
Right.

00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:33.519
Then you're not doing it right.

00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:36.239
If you're saying you're being discipled and you're not doing it right.

00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:38.800
So you you I got I love the Greek too.

00:42:38.960 --> 00:42:39.679
I love Hebrew.

00:42:39.760 --> 00:42:40.239
It's beautiful.

00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:41.119
It's fantastic.

00:42:41.199 --> 00:42:42.159
You know, you're a doctor.

00:42:42.239 --> 00:42:44.239
You go you got all the this is fantastic.

00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:45.280
I love all of that.

00:42:45.519 --> 00:42:46.559
Where are the people?

00:42:46.719 --> 00:42:49.440
Hey, are they are they are you pouring into anybody else?

00:42:49.599 --> 00:42:51.840
Are you laying your life down for anybody else?

00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:56.159
Um, and I'm not saying that has to be thousands, but there's got to be at least a one.

00:42:56.800 --> 00:42:58.239
There's got there's got to be at least a one.

00:42:58.320 --> 00:43:02.480
A son, a daughter, a co-worker, uh whatever it is.

00:43:02.559 --> 00:43:03.519
It's got to be somebody.

00:43:03.599 --> 00:43:03.760
Yeah.

00:43:03.920 --> 00:43:05.440
So I mean, we're all over the place in the man.

00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:10.400
I love it, but I'm still going back to I I I I saw something.

00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:14.400
Because you have this honor.

00:43:14.559 --> 00:43:19.440
We're going back to this honor, this whole idea you said, you know, not about me, but about you.

00:43:19.840 --> 00:43:20.239
There you are.

00:43:20.639 --> 00:43:20.880
Serve you.

00:43:21.519 --> 00:43:23.119
There you are versus here I am.

00:43:24.480 --> 00:43:27.840
This idea of it's an honor, right, to serve you.

00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:28.559
Okay.

00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:44.639
All of those things you're saying, which I think is very unique insight here, because I do believe there's some younger leaders probably listening to, where pride is evident, arrogance is evident, but what you're really describing is false humility as arrogance too.

00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:46.000
That's exactly what it is.

00:43:46.159 --> 00:43:48.239
It it's so not do not think of your own.

00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:50.079
It's more acceptable, pride, right?

00:43:50.320 --> 00:43:51.440
But it is pride nonetheless.

00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:54.800
Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, right?

00:43:55.360 --> 00:43:56.239
What does that mean?

00:43:56.400 --> 00:44:01.599
It's not think less of yourself, as one person said, but think of yourself less, right?

00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:02.239
Very good.

00:44:02.480 --> 00:44:13.280
So it what what we're talking about too is I mean, I know I've had some of our younger leaders who were like, Well, I'm a female, I'm a this, I'm a I'm this, I'm young, I came from here, I came from there.

00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:15.599
I go, well, no one cares.

00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:20.719
Yeah, just lead, be amazing, lift people, serve others.

00:44:21.199 --> 00:44:22.880
I was a 21-year-old senior pastor.

00:44:22.960 --> 00:44:25.440
I'm not saying I was great, but I was in the game and I was serving.

00:44:25.519 --> 00:44:27.360
Yeah, and you just grow and you get better.

00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:29.119
I'm just gonna keep valuing people.

00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:29.920
Totally agree.

00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:32.719
I want to go back because I we still haven't gotten there.

00:44:33.039 --> 00:44:36.480
I was at your men's event, I was getting ready to leave.

00:44:36.639 --> 00:44:43.679
Your son, who said he said I was really funny, and he said he's the funniest one in the McClellan.

00:44:44.320 --> 00:44:52.960
Our middle son had the audacity to tell this amazing man of God here next to me, Pastor Jeff Little, that he is the funniest person in our family.

00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:54.800
I and you know what I said?

00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:55.920
I'm coming over.

00:44:56.320 --> 00:45:01.440
Let's have a me, you, and Earl, let's have a comedy night.

00:45:01.599 --> 00:45:02.239
I love Grace.

00:45:02.480 --> 00:45:03.360
Let's see what you got.

00:45:03.519 --> 00:45:08.079
He's funny, he's funny, but he I he's been under my tutelage for 15 years.

00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:10.239
It's so funny.

00:45:10.480 --> 00:45:18.239
Because my son came, he went to college and then he served in the youth ministry, whatever, and he actually moved back and is and he's leading young adults.

00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:22.880
And he he told me the other day, he goes, Yeah, dad, I'm seeing the real pattern here.

00:45:23.039 --> 00:45:25.199
Like, you're preaching a lot of my messages.

00:45:27.840 --> 00:45:33.519
I'm like, or or just given an alternative possibility.

00:45:33.760 --> 00:45:35.119
There's another option here.

00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:41.039
You've been sitting under my teaching for your entire life.

00:45:43.519 --> 00:45:44.800
Oh man, I love them.

00:45:44.880 --> 00:45:46.960
But our kids are great, they're amazing.

00:45:47.199 --> 00:45:53.440
But but but but um I'm I'm thinking about again, you know, different your story though is part of it.

00:45:53.599 --> 00:45:56.719
Let me go back to I was in there, your son, that's where I got off track.

00:45:56.880 --> 00:46:07.679
Your son, and you looked, a young man was over there, and and your son and I were talking, and then you looked at a young man and you said, Hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna we're almost done, you know.

00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:08.719
I'm gonna take you home.

00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:11.039
I'm like, Earl, who's that young man?

00:46:11.519 --> 00:46:22.000
That young man was a son of a single mom that you went and picked up before all your responsibilities of host me to bring to that.

00:46:22.480 --> 00:46:24.159
I have a burden for single moms.

00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:25.920
We serve hundreds of single moms.

00:46:26.320 --> 00:46:26.719
So beautiful.

00:46:27.039 --> 00:46:27.760
All of that.

00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:30.800
What what about that part of your story?

00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:41.599
Because I heard you say something that I thought you love the church and you believe the church should be that place that does talk about hard things but lifts others because that was the place for you.

00:46:41.840 --> 00:46:42.320
That's exactly right.

00:46:42.400 --> 00:46:46.320
And the men of the church were the ones that picked me up.

00:46:46.639 --> 00:46:49.920
This is in the days of Edwin Lewis Cole.

00:46:50.239 --> 00:46:50.880
Oh, yeah.

00:46:51.199 --> 00:46:53.599
Maximize manhood, maximized manhood.

00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:54.079
Yep.

00:46:54.400 --> 00:46:58.320
Being a male is a matter of birth, being a man is a matter of choice.

00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:01.920
I mean, I I remember all of these sayings.

00:47:02.239 --> 00:47:12.559
Um, but they would pick me up from our house in the hood, and because our our church was not in the inner city, it was in Providence, Rhode Island.

00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:16.880
Our church was in Massachusetts, but again, they're all so close, so you know it took 20 minutes to get there.

00:47:17.039 --> 00:47:21.440
But uh they would pick us up, pick me up, bring me to these meetings.

00:47:21.599 --> 00:47:24.079
I mean, I'm 11, 12.

00:47:24.239 --> 00:47:24.480
Yeah.

00:47:24.719 --> 00:47:31.760
All these men they're drinking coffee and eating donuts, so I'm grabbing a donut too, and I'm hearing them talk about just marriage and life.

00:47:31.920 --> 00:47:34.000
I still remember being in the fellowship hall.

00:47:34.239 --> 00:47:34.880
That's what it's called.

00:47:35.119 --> 00:47:38.480
And I'm looking up at all these guys, and they're just talking about life.

00:47:38.559 --> 00:47:49.280
They would sit down and watch a video of Edwin Lewis Cole talking about manhood, talking about sex and marriage, yeah, talking about finances.

00:47:49.440 --> 00:47:55.199
Again, I'm 11, 12, 13, 14 years old, all the way through.

00:47:55.599 --> 00:48:02.239
Then one of the youth leaders or one of the men in the church would bring me home, drive it back off, and that's so good.

00:48:02.480 --> 00:48:05.039
Do it again next week, or the third Saturday of the month.

00:48:05.199 --> 00:48:06.800
But they just were present in my life.

00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:19.360
So we're what what my biological father, who I love him and I'm thankful for him, and uh we have reconciled, uh-huh, but what he was not able to be, right?

00:48:19.840 --> 00:48:22.719
God provided the church and the men of the church.

00:48:23.039 --> 00:48:25.039
But this goes back to that environment.

00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:29.760
We are not minimizing a lot of the things people harp on.

00:48:29.920 --> 00:48:38.719
It wasn't it wasn't the size of the fellowship hall, the quality of the donuts, not that there isn't uh appropriate parking for people.

00:48:39.280 --> 00:48:52.079
It wasn't even the and and I love the I again I've I have advanced degrees in theology, but you don't remember every single theological point of the teaching.

00:48:52.719 --> 00:49:04.559
You do remember there was a man who saw you exactly who honored you no matter where you were coming from, yeah, and was willing to give away their lives to you.

00:49:04.960 --> 00:49:10.480
Edwin Lewis Cole, you saying that, talk about honor, because you're making me think where where did all of that come from?

00:49:10.719 --> 00:49:18.480
I remember he came to our church, I'm probably at this time 14 years old, maybe 15.

00:49:18.800 --> 00:49:23.519
Maybe I'm 15, and he calls me up to the front.

00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:24.559
Wow.

00:49:25.519 --> 00:49:29.599
And he asks me about my mom.

00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:32.880
I don't know if my pastor told him that my mom was a single mom.

00:49:32.960 --> 00:49:34.480
I don't know, I'm not sure what happened.

00:49:34.719 --> 00:49:39.920
And he gave me 50, but it may have been a hundred dollar bill, but I think it was a$50 bill.

00:49:40.079 --> 00:49:40.239
Wow.

00:49:40.480 --> 00:49:43.280
And he said, take your mom out for dinner.

00:49:43.679 --> 00:49:45.280
Wow, that's so good.

00:49:45.599 --> 00:49:54.480
And I got to go out, and my mom and I ordered dinner, and when the check came, I got it, and I paid with that$50.

00:49:55.280 --> 00:49:55.679
So good.

00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:59.679
Did the tip so good and felt like a man.

00:49:59.920 --> 00:50:00.320
That's it.

00:50:00.639 --> 00:50:04.880
Felt like I had responsibility, felt like I had worth and value.

00:50:05.119 --> 00:50:09.840
It wasn't the$50, it was the dignity of I got I got you, mom.

00:50:10.159 --> 00:50:10.880
I got you.

00:50:11.199 --> 00:50:11.519
Love that.

00:50:11.760 --> 00:50:16.559
And so here he is honoring me, teaching me to go honor my mom.

00:50:16.719 --> 00:50:17.039
Yep.

00:50:17.280 --> 00:50:20.800
And now my mom lives with us, which is awesome and wonderful and amazing.

00:50:20.960 --> 00:50:34.639
Uh, but I think there were just some things that happened throughout the course of my life that continue to shape and mold, and you don't even realize you have these little mile markers, and now you know you are who you are, and you're thankful for it.

00:50:34.719 --> 00:50:37.199
And again, you're you're forcing me to kind of dig a little bit deeper.

00:50:37.519 --> 00:50:51.679
So there was the there were these impactful moments, and I think that's where we underestimate as a team leader or as a parent or as a church member or as a business owner, seeing people and you're sowing seeds, you never know.

00:50:51.840 --> 00:50:55.039
Like they didn't know what they were investing in, 11-year-old Earl.

00:50:55.280 --> 00:50:55.679
They didn't know.

00:50:55.920 --> 00:50:56.480
Look today.

00:50:57.199 --> 00:51:06.000
That pastor, and I have a pastor like that who let me preach when I was 16, who would bring me to his house on Wednesday nights, got kids running around, his wife's cooking spaghetti.

00:51:06.079 --> 00:51:13.920
He's probably been at the church all day, did two hospital visits, and he would bring me to his house on Wednesday nights because he saw the call of God on me.

00:51:14.079 --> 00:51:21.679
I went back and did his funeral for him and honored that many and just went back and said, guys, what I'm doing today, thank God for whoever is.

00:51:21.920 --> 00:51:22.239
That's right.

00:51:23.199 --> 00:51:25.199
We ascribe that to, well, they're pastors.

00:51:25.440 --> 00:51:26.880
It doesn't have to be just that.

00:51:27.039 --> 00:51:27.920
They're everybody here.

00:51:28.239 --> 00:51:28.800
Totally agree.

00:51:28.960 --> 00:51:34.159
Let's let me go to one more because I think I also talk to people, and I'm talking about environment.

00:51:34.559 --> 00:51:36.320
I think we miss something today.

00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:38.719
Wherever you are, you're there, right?

00:51:38.880 --> 00:51:48.159
It's it's where it isn't your God was building this in your story, and it wasn't about your context, it was about what he was doing in you.

00:51:48.320 --> 00:51:48.960
Wow, it's powerful.

00:51:49.039 --> 00:51:49.599
And we missed that.

00:51:49.840 --> 00:51:50.480
Yeah, it's powerful.

00:51:50.559 --> 00:51:50.880
Yep.

00:51:51.039 --> 00:51:57.840
So talk to me about you go to college, you and Onika, you know, y'all, y'all get married, all of this happening.

00:51:58.000 --> 00:52:02.880
But before you planted Shoreline City Church, how many years were you an executive pastor?

00:52:03.119 --> 00:52:06.239
Yeah, I was on staff for 12 years at a church in Austin.

00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:10.559
Love loved it, loved it then, still love it to this day.

00:52:10.960 --> 00:52:12.320
Love as a matter of fact, we were just there.

00:52:12.480 --> 00:52:18.239
Onika and I actually went together and spoke at the final woman's conference at that church.

00:52:18.400 --> 00:52:25.119
25 years they've been doing the women's conference, and they they're they decided to stop it this year, and they asked Onique and I come back to speak.

00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:26.719
And it was an honor to be there.

00:52:27.440 --> 00:52:31.599
We know that the the the background, the connections, it was a great formative place for you.

00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:32.159
Okay.

00:52:33.280 --> 00:52:41.679
Let's talk about this though, because I think today there's so many outlets and so many, you know, miracle grow.

00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:42.719
You know what I mean?

00:52:42.800 --> 00:52:44.159
Like it's miracle grow.

00:52:44.320 --> 00:52:45.440
I would love I love getting to this show.

00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:46.320
I love you.

00:52:47.280 --> 00:52:50.639
Get you a trailer, just it's for worship leaders, it's for business leaders.

00:52:50.719 --> 00:52:53.199
This happens with pastors, it happens with youth.

00:52:53.679 --> 00:52:55.440
It happens, you go down the line.

00:52:55.679 --> 00:53:05.039
Influencers, everybody is thinking, let me go ahead and just proverbial, strike oil, boom, let me blow up.

00:53:05.199 --> 00:53:06.960
We would say it, go viral.

00:53:07.199 --> 00:53:09.920
It's like go viral, then you know what?

00:53:10.079 --> 00:53:10.800
It's a lie.

00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:11.760
It's a lie.

00:53:12.159 --> 00:53:12.719
It's not true.

00:53:12.800 --> 00:53:14.159
You don't have the root system, yeah.

00:53:14.320 --> 00:53:21.840
You don't have the character, you don't have the tenacity, you don't have the dirt underneath your fingernails to maintain the thing that has come your way.

00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:28.000
Uh, as some people would put it, the the pressure that is on you is greater than the character within you.

00:53:28.239 --> 00:53:28.639
So good.

00:53:28.880 --> 00:53:35.519
So you want to find a spot where you can be under some spiritual leadership.

00:53:35.679 --> 00:53:42.800
Even if you're in the business world, find you're under your pastor's spiritual authority, not what you're manipulated and taken advantage of.

00:53:42.880 --> 00:53:43.679
We're not talking about that.

00:53:43.760 --> 00:53:46.159
We're talking about being under somebody's covering and authority.

00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:47.840
You're gonna flourish and become who got to be.

00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:49.679
But I want to I want to get in my sweet spot.

00:53:49.840 --> 00:53:55.440
I mean, I gotta I was talking to some young folks the other day.

00:53:55.519 --> 00:53:57.119
I said, What are you gonna do when you graduate college?

00:53:57.199 --> 00:53:58.719
They said, I'm gonna be a consultant.

00:53:58.880 --> 00:54:00.159
I'm like Of what?

00:54:00.320 --> 00:54:00.880
I'm serious.

00:54:01.519 --> 00:54:02.880
I'm gonna be a high schooler.

00:54:03.920 --> 00:54:06.320
I'm no longer a high school at British College.

00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:08.079
Yep, I'm gonna consult high school students.

00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:08.880
You'll crush it.

00:54:08.960 --> 00:54:09.679
You'll crush it at that.

00:54:11.199 --> 00:54:11.599
Do it.

00:54:11.760 --> 00:54:16.239
But you know what I find so interesting because you and I, it's like, okay, wait a minute, Earl.

00:54:16.400 --> 00:54:20.159
You're fun, you're life-giving, you're a culture creator, you're doing all this.

00:54:20.400 --> 00:54:22.400
Like you were like managing the budget.

00:54:22.559 --> 00:54:22.800
Exactly.

00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:25.360
You were doing the facility, you're an executive pastor.

00:54:25.679 --> 00:54:26.159
Opening up.

00:54:26.400 --> 00:54:29.199
Forgive me if I don't think that's like your main gift note.

00:54:29.679 --> 00:54:31.119
No, exactly.

00:54:31.679 --> 00:54:33.360
It doesn't hurt my feelings at all.

00:54:33.599 --> 00:54:42.800
I grew so much, and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm there's part of I'm working muscles that I didn't know that I needed to work or that I even had.

00:54:42.960 --> 00:54:43.119
Right.

00:54:43.360 --> 00:54:47.679
Thank you, thank you, God, for my pastor giving me an opportunity to learn and grow.

00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:52.639
Because if not, oh my goodness, I would not even have the understanding that I have right now.

00:54:52.719 --> 00:54:56.239
So it's so fun being on the staff, having a staff now, right?

00:54:56.480 --> 00:54:59.119
Because I go, I know what you guys are thinking.

00:54:59.360 --> 00:55:04.639
You're thinking, why doesn't he just do X, Y, or Z?

00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:05.920
That's what you're thinking.

00:55:06.159 --> 00:55:07.599
Because you think you know.

00:55:08.559 --> 00:55:09.280
Because you've been there.

00:55:09.519 --> 00:55:09.920
Yeah, yeah.

00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:20.000
Let me just tell you, when you go from the seat that you're in to my seat, it is such a different perspective and such a different way.

00:55:20.159 --> 00:55:20.960
And I'm not better.

00:55:21.039 --> 00:55:22.880
We're all just on the same team.

00:55:22.960 --> 00:55:27.840
You're a right guard, you gotta have a left guard, you got the tackle, you got the center, you got the safeties.

00:55:27.920 --> 00:55:29.039
Everybody's just doing their part.

00:55:29.119 --> 00:55:31.760
I'm not saying my part's more important, but I got a part on the team.

00:55:31.840 --> 00:55:31.920
Right.

00:55:32.159 --> 00:55:36.559
You got a part on the team, and I'm telling you, it's not the same pressure.

00:55:36.719 --> 00:55:48.960
So even those, again, if it's in the business world and you're not the head boss or you're not the founder of the company, it's just a different weight when you are the founder and the leader as compared to some other roles.

00:55:49.280 --> 00:55:52.079
Well, let's ask a specific question here then, because I want to ask this.

00:55:52.159 --> 00:55:54.239
I think it's important, someone listening.

00:55:54.719 --> 00:56:00.079
So you obviously had that in you because of what you're doing today.

00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:02.159
How do you know when?

00:56:02.639 --> 00:56:04.079
How do you know how?

00:56:04.480 --> 00:56:06.719
What if you're like, but they don't understand?

00:56:06.880 --> 00:56:11.360
Like, I am I'm I'm going to be Earl, and maybe you will be.

00:56:11.760 --> 00:56:12.559
How do you know?

00:56:13.599 --> 00:56:14.559
How do you know when?

00:56:14.719 --> 00:56:15.760
How do you know how?

00:56:15.920 --> 00:56:16.800
What do you do?

00:56:16.960 --> 00:56:19.119
Like it's like, I how do you handle that?

00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:21.360
If you're if you're on a team or totally agree.

00:56:21.519 --> 00:56:26.639
You know, because one thing a lot of people do is they just move from team to team, or they go from here to here.

00:56:26.800 --> 00:56:28.559
But how do how do you navigate that?

00:56:28.960 --> 00:56:38.559
We know there are ish places that are abusive, that are toxic, that are um inappropriate, uh sinful.

00:56:38.800 --> 00:56:39.760
You can go down the line.

00:56:39.840 --> 00:56:41.280
We know those places exist.

00:56:41.440 --> 00:56:42.079
Right.

00:56:42.800 --> 00:56:43.280
Leave.

00:56:43.440 --> 00:56:44.079
Get out of that.

00:56:44.320 --> 00:56:44.559
Right.

00:56:44.800 --> 00:56:45.199
Duh.

00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:45.440
Right.

00:56:45.599 --> 00:56:46.800
So we're not talking about that right now.

00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:47.920
We're not talking about that.

00:56:48.239 --> 00:56:58.320
We're talking about you as an individual that your pastor's not sinning, but the leader in your life might not be the best leader.

00:56:58.559 --> 00:56:58.880
Okay.

00:56:59.199 --> 00:57:00.639
They might not, you know, they might not be.

00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:03.119
They might not be the best leader on the planet, you know?

00:57:03.199 --> 00:57:03.360
Yeah.

00:57:03.519 --> 00:57:05.840
Got character and integrity, they're honest, you know.

00:57:05.920 --> 00:57:07.760
They they might not even be a great people person.

00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:08.480
Maybe they're not.

00:57:09.280 --> 00:57:12.400
Maybe they're a Bible teacher and they like to teach more than they like people.

00:57:12.639 --> 00:57:13.119
That's exactly right.

00:57:13.199 --> 00:57:14.159
So maybe whatever.

00:57:14.480 --> 00:57:15.199
That's not sin.

00:57:15.360 --> 00:57:16.079
That's not sin.

00:57:16.400 --> 00:57:24.960
In our day and age, if I don't like connect and jive with you and we don't vibe, if I'm like the vibe, I gotta go.

00:57:25.360 --> 00:57:30.880
I'm like, whoa, whoa, you you're missing what God is trying to shape in you.

00:57:31.119 --> 00:57:31.599
There you go.

00:57:31.840 --> 00:57:33.679
In that environment right there, right?

00:57:33.920 --> 00:57:37.039
As you're trying to find the perfect place to land, yeah.

00:57:37.199 --> 00:57:38.400
Oh no, my friend.

00:57:38.639 --> 00:57:48.239
What I say, and I encourage even people on our staff with this, do you trust God with your future or do you only trust yourself?

00:57:48.480 --> 00:57:49.039
There you go.

00:57:49.199 --> 00:57:56.480
Because the Lord wants to get you to whatever level you're supposed to get to, just so you know, I'm not gonna be able to stop them.

00:57:56.800 --> 00:57:57.119
No.

00:57:57.440 --> 00:58:03.679
I don't have the power to stop God from doing what God wants to do in your life.

00:58:03.760 --> 00:58:03.920
No.

00:58:04.079 --> 00:58:17.280
So if you'll stay yielded, focused, serving others, right, aligned with the vision, if you'll do that, watch how God will take care of you and shape you and mold you, and you'll grow into who you're supposed to be.

00:58:17.440 --> 00:58:19.119
You don't have to fight for it.

00:58:19.199 --> 00:58:19.440
Yeah.

00:58:19.599 --> 00:58:28.320
People told me, Jeff, I had so many words from the Lord that I was supposed to be this and that and do this and that.

00:58:28.639 --> 00:58:31.840
And I'm unlocking the church.

00:58:32.159 --> 00:58:32.480
Yeah.

00:58:32.719 --> 00:58:33.440
That's what I was doing.

00:58:33.840 --> 00:58:35.039
Dealing with staff problems.

00:58:35.199 --> 00:58:36.079
Yeah, that's what I'm doing.

00:58:36.480 --> 00:58:39.920
Dealing with all the overflow big problems that the pastor don't do.

00:58:40.400 --> 00:58:43.199
I'm like, what whatever timeline.

00:58:43.360 --> 00:58:46.639
So, on a practical note, then, how did it happen?

00:58:46.800 --> 00:58:47.679
Your pastor.

00:58:47.920 --> 00:58:49.920
My past I went to him.

00:58:50.079 --> 00:58:55.920
I remember going to him and his wife and saying, because he asked me, Earl, do you ever feel you're supposed to lead a church?

00:58:56.079 --> 00:58:57.199
He asked me that question.

00:58:57.360 --> 00:59:00.400
And I said, I had this dream.

00:59:01.599 --> 00:59:04.400
At that time would have been eight months ago.

00:59:06.079 --> 00:59:07.599
I'm submitting it to you.

00:59:08.000 --> 00:59:09.519
Listen, great language.

00:59:10.239 --> 00:59:16.880
Pastor, if you feel great about this, then let's talk about it.

00:59:17.599 --> 00:59:19.920
The timeline, I'll be giving it to you.

00:59:20.480 --> 00:59:22.639
I gave that into his head.

00:59:22.880 --> 00:59:23.440
Wow.

00:59:23.840 --> 00:59:27.199
Then we and then we waited forever.

00:59:27.440 --> 00:59:28.159
That's what it felt like.

00:59:28.480 --> 00:59:28.880
It seemed like.

00:59:29.039 --> 00:59:30.639
Yeah, it seemed like how long was it really?

00:59:30.960 --> 00:59:35.440
So I had the dream in October of 2009.

00:59:36.239 --> 00:59:43.519
We talked in March of 2010 the first time about this little nighttime dream I had.

00:59:43.840 --> 00:59:45.119
That's 2010.

00:59:45.440 --> 00:59:51.280
We did not leave until May of 2011.

00:59:51.840 --> 00:59:53.039
So for another year and a half.

01:00:00.559 --> 01:00:07.599
Right before the dream, our pastors lost their middle son in the car accident tragically, 17 years old, fell asleep at the wheel.

01:00:07.679 --> 01:00:09.760
Yes, hit a tree, so tragic.

01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:13.760
So then I get the dream in October, and I feel terrible.

01:00:13.840 --> 01:00:15.360
I'm like, God, I don't why would you ask?

01:00:15.519 --> 01:00:16.480
Why'd you give me this now?

01:00:16.639 --> 01:00:18.480
So that's all happening right there at the same time.

01:00:18.800 --> 01:00:20.639
And you have the dream, but you submitted it to him.

01:00:20.800 --> 01:00:21.360
That's what I'm gonna do.

01:00:21.599 --> 01:00:24.159
But see, also, I want to talk about honor here.

01:00:24.320 --> 01:00:26.239
I want to talk about character here.

01:00:27.360 --> 01:00:34.159
You were willing to serve because you you were very needed in that time period window.

01:00:34.480 --> 01:00:34.800
That's right.

01:00:34.960 --> 01:00:39.199
God wasn't delaying your launch, He had his bigger kingdom story.

01:00:39.760 --> 01:00:44.239
You reap what you sow, and you honored your pastor in a difficult time and stayed there.

01:00:44.320 --> 01:00:48.000
And that it's almost like we've never talked about this.

01:00:48.159 --> 01:00:56.079
It's almost like God tested you with the dream to see how in the crisis how you would hold it.

01:00:56.320 --> 01:00:58.400
Earl, is this your dream or my dream?

01:00:58.800 --> 01:01:02.079
Because remember, we don't believe this is our dream.

01:01:02.159 --> 01:01:03.360
This this whole you got a dream.

01:01:03.519 --> 01:01:05.280
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

01:01:05.599 --> 01:01:06.639
It's God's vision.

01:01:06.960 --> 01:01:07.280
Exactly.

01:01:07.360 --> 01:01:07.519
Yeah.

01:01:07.840 --> 01:01:17.760
We're just stewarding the Lord to try to show me what you're so he gave it to you, goes, you know, now how's Earl gonna handle that in this moment?

01:01:18.480 --> 01:01:24.000
And you served your pastor, you took care of him, so it was about that time, and then he sent you to Dallas.

01:01:24.400 --> 01:01:25.280
I remember when it happened.

01:01:25.599 --> 01:01:27.119
Yep, that is so good.

01:01:27.280 --> 01:01:35.280
I I didn't see it as that testing, but it did feel um hard hard, trying at times.

01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:38.159
This is a great practical.

01:01:38.320 --> 01:01:40.480
I I didn't even know if I've ever talked to my pastor about this.

01:01:40.559 --> 01:01:42.239
I need to joke with him about it.

01:01:42.800 --> 01:01:45.119
We're we all know we're leaving.

01:01:45.199 --> 01:01:53.519
Me, I know I'm leaving, my wife knows, he knows, his wife knows, our kids know, but we hadn't told the church.

01:01:53.760 --> 01:02:00.239
You know, so yeah, after he and his wife, we're one of the you know, primary faces, you know, of the church.

01:02:00.559 --> 01:02:02.000
They don't know that we're leaving.

01:02:02.159 --> 01:02:13.920
Our son, at the time he was like five years old, our oldest, is going up to people asking for prayer because we're moving to Dallas, and people are coming up to us going, crying.

01:02:14.159 --> 01:02:14.480
Crying.

01:02:14.639 --> 01:02:16.079
Are you you moving to Dallas?

01:02:16.320 --> 01:02:17.840
Parker said, is this true?

01:02:18.239 --> 01:02:23.840
Like, uh yes, but don't say it to anybody.

01:02:23.920 --> 01:02:28.400
But you know, we couldn't muzzle our son, you know, from from saying, you know, kids are so pure and innocent.

01:02:28.559 --> 01:02:30.400
Um, so we have to hold on to it.

01:02:30.480 --> 01:02:32.239
We had leadership meetings at our house.

01:02:32.400 --> 01:02:37.119
I would have to pull my for sale sign out of the yard, not have to.

01:02:37.280 --> 01:02:38.159
This is what I chose to do.

01:02:38.400 --> 01:02:41.760
Pull it out of the yard, hide it in our garage, right?

01:02:41.920 --> 01:02:46.159
So that because we wanted to allow our pastors to be the one to tell the story.

01:02:46.320 --> 01:02:48.800
It was not our story to tell.

01:02:49.039 --> 01:02:49.920
That was testing.

01:02:50.000 --> 01:02:50.559
That was trying.

01:02:50.800 --> 01:02:53.760
I'm like, Pastor, you're kind of forcing me to lie here.

01:02:53.920 --> 01:02:56.719
Not lie, you know, really, but I just feel like I want to get this out.

01:02:56.800 --> 01:02:57.119
Right, right.

01:02:57.840 --> 01:02:59.840
I'm ready to run, I'm ready to go.

01:03:00.239 --> 01:03:03.840
But it was all that was testing character, right?

01:03:04.079 --> 01:03:10.880
Honor, honor, humility, having good spirit, caring about the people more than you care about your deal.

01:03:11.039 --> 01:03:13.920
What that was really about was you were caring about the people, right?

01:03:14.000 --> 01:03:17.440
You're wanting them to have a healthy process, just the same way a dad would with kids.

01:03:17.920 --> 01:03:18.320
That is so good.

01:03:19.599 --> 01:03:31.440
Going back to what you said about Solomon, which I stole from an another mentor in my life, he said, you know, Solomon tells those these moms, uh, okay, let's cut the baby in half.

01:03:31.599 --> 01:03:31.920
Yeah.

01:03:32.400 --> 01:03:36.480
And the woman who wasn't the mom goes, great.

01:03:36.719 --> 01:03:36.960
Right.

01:03:37.199 --> 01:03:38.880
The woman who was the mom goes, no, no, no, no.

01:03:38.960 --> 01:03:39.519
No, no, no, no.

01:03:39.679 --> 01:03:45.440
He goes, I've discovered that there's some staff people that say they love the church, but they're willing to cut the baby in half.

01:03:45.760 --> 01:03:46.400
Yeah.

01:03:47.440 --> 01:03:48.559
Oh, I love the church.

01:03:48.639 --> 01:03:49.199
I love the church.

01:03:49.360 --> 01:03:50.000
Oh, really?

01:03:50.239 --> 01:03:51.280
Right, right, right.

01:03:51.599 --> 01:03:53.920
Why are you talking how you're talking and leaving how you're leaving?

01:03:54.079 --> 01:03:54.639
Right.

01:03:55.039 --> 01:03:55.360
Really?

01:03:55.519 --> 01:03:56.559
You you you you love the church?

01:03:57.280 --> 01:03:57.679
You know what?

01:03:57.760 --> 01:03:58.960
The baby's more important.

01:03:59.360 --> 01:04:02.159
It's like, okay, I mean, it's it's w it's fine.

01:04:02.239 --> 01:04:03.440
I I don't have to.

01:04:03.679 --> 01:04:05.199
I'm gonna do this in the right way.

01:04:05.440 --> 01:04:06.000
Yeah.

01:04:06.719 --> 01:04:08.639
So for I didn't again, I didn't know.

01:04:09.039 --> 01:04:17.039
I want to tell somebody this because you and I are sharing this as principles, which is what I love about this format, and you and I might be having this conversation.

01:04:17.440 --> 01:04:21.519
But there's not it's this is not anything to gain for us.

01:04:21.679 --> 01:04:29.519
We're sharing this saying you teach what you know, you reproduce what you are.

01:04:29.840 --> 01:04:30.079
Wow.

01:04:30.320 --> 01:04:31.599
So why am I digging this?

01:04:31.679 --> 01:04:34.559
I go to your staff, I go, Earl, it's just a good spirit, man.

01:04:34.880 --> 01:04:36.159
Like they just got good hearts.

01:04:36.400 --> 01:04:36.719
First time.

01:04:36.800 --> 01:04:37.440
Go over there today.

01:04:37.599 --> 01:04:39.519
You're like, uh, this is last Saturday.

01:04:39.599 --> 01:04:42.480
And you're like, well, we've really grown, we've been working on it more.

01:04:42.719 --> 01:04:53.039
But what I'm trying to show people is there were people in the church that honored you when you could have been looked down on as a kid, but you were you you were taught to honor your mom and take her to dinner.

01:04:53.280 --> 01:05:08.480
And then you're journeying along, and then you you learn how to honor your wife, and then you come along, and then you're in this very challenging set of circumstances that you could have handled either way, but you were acting in an honorable way.

01:05:08.719 --> 01:05:13.920
It's not by happenstance that now you have this atmosphere with with honor.

01:05:14.239 --> 01:05:16.159
Well, that's you're very insightful.

01:05:16.239 --> 01:05:21.440
There's the wisdom, you know, that you have from the Lord and passed on from your dad.

01:05:21.840 --> 01:05:28.800
Um, I you know, I do receive that, and it is good to understand how something is working, right?

01:05:28.960 --> 01:05:31.760
Because so when it's not working, you know how to fix it.

01:05:32.320 --> 01:05:54.719
Um so you saying all of this has my wheels actually spinning a whole bunch right here because there's some things that I think we might just do intuitively that are really helping create the environment that we'd like to have, that you you wouldn't know to say don't do that until you see it and you go, Whoa, that doesn't feel right.

01:05:54.880 --> 01:05:55.280
Yeah.

01:05:55.519 --> 01:05:58.239
We we we don't we don't do that right now right there.

01:05:58.400 --> 01:06:00.159
That's that's not that's not the right spirit.

01:06:00.400 --> 01:06:02.079
Yeah, it doesn't feel right and heart.

01:06:02.320 --> 01:06:02.559
Exactly.

01:06:02.639 --> 01:06:03.840
Spirit survival than words.

01:06:04.400 --> 01:06:07.440
You've been the pastor at Shoreline City.

01:06:07.519 --> 01:06:08.559
How old is the church now?

01:06:08.880 --> 01:06:11.280
Church at in we started in 2012.

01:06:11.519 --> 01:06:12.400
2012, yeah.

01:06:12.639 --> 01:06:15.840
Which I had a I had like this this thing from the Lord.

01:06:16.000 --> 01:06:18.480
I was over there that you needed a hub, God's really helped y'all.

01:06:18.559 --> 01:06:21.519
Y'all got a hub, it's exciting, the building's amazing.

01:06:22.079 --> 01:06:33.360
I want to ask this one last question for a leader out there, because someone tuning into this, they're getting encouragement because you you can feel like I'm dealing with stuff that nobody else is dealing with, right?

01:06:33.440 --> 01:06:38.159
So that's part of why we listen in there listening to you and I going, well, these guys are a man, they're in the same battle.

01:06:38.480 --> 01:06:39.039
That's right.

01:06:39.519 --> 01:06:45.360
From moving into being a senior pastor, what has been your biggest surprise?

01:06:45.519 --> 01:06:46.880
What's been your biggest takeaway?

01:06:47.119 --> 01:06:52.239
What's been your biggest challenge of that new new step of leadership?

01:06:52.320 --> 01:06:52.400
Yeah.

01:06:52.559 --> 01:06:53.440
What's the biggest hard?

01:06:53.599 --> 01:07:00.079
Because I want that translates to business, to team, to you're a new youth pastor, you're a new children's person, you're leading a new team at work.

01:07:00.480 --> 01:07:08.480
You're you're I we have several teachers and school uh because you know, ministry and school leaders, they're they're managing a lot of stuff.

01:07:08.639 --> 01:07:09.519
But listen to this.

01:07:09.840 --> 01:07:11.599
What's been your biggest surprise?

01:07:11.760 --> 01:07:14.639
You're it's kind of like, man, I didn't see that coming.

01:07:14.719 --> 01:07:16.559
That's harder than I thought it would be.

01:07:16.719 --> 01:07:18.159
What what what has that been?

01:07:18.639 --> 01:07:21.360
For me, it would be me.

01:07:22.639 --> 01:07:26.639
And I I'm not trying to, it's not even a joke.

01:07:26.719 --> 01:07:41.039
I actually am surprised that I thought, not that I was perfect, I never thought that, but I thought I worked through some more things and I'm let's go.

01:07:41.280 --> 01:07:42.719
Okay, we're kind of ready.

01:07:43.519 --> 01:07:48.239
And there was a level of uh I was naive.

01:07:48.400 --> 01:07:48.719
Yeah.

01:07:49.039 --> 01:07:53.599
I was I was naive, but I actually think that's a gift.

01:07:53.840 --> 01:07:54.559
I know, I agree.

01:07:54.880 --> 01:07:56.000
I know where you're getting with this.

01:07:56.480 --> 01:08:07.119
For me to not know how I needed to grow and change, right, actually helped me be willing to take the step of faith.

01:08:07.199 --> 01:08:07.360
Yeah.

01:08:07.599 --> 01:08:15.360
Because if God had shown me all that it was going to require, you'd be like, oh, you know what I'm gonna pass.

01:08:15.760 --> 01:08:16.640
No, no, thank you.

01:08:16.800 --> 01:08:17.359
No, thank you.

01:08:17.600 --> 01:08:20.880
So that's why some things even can look easier than they are at times.

01:08:21.199 --> 01:08:23.920
Because obviously God has graced the leader for that thing.

01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:25.279
And a person goes, I can do that.

01:08:25.359 --> 01:08:28.079
You better go, hey, are you really called to that?

01:08:28.479 --> 01:08:41.600
And you better make sure you are, because you're gonna be in a fire that you don't even it it's it's hotter and harder than you even thought possible.

01:08:41.920 --> 01:08:43.600
God will give you the grace for it, the strength for it.

01:08:43.760 --> 01:08:44.079
That's true.

01:08:44.159 --> 01:08:44.560
If you're called.

01:08:44.720 --> 01:08:49.439
If you're called, if you're called, yeah, but uh that's where he's trying to, he loves us so much, right?

01:08:49.520 --> 01:08:49.680
Right.

01:08:49.840 --> 01:08:51.439
Me and you, he's trying to shape us into the men.

01:08:51.680 --> 01:08:55.760
He's called us to be the every leader that listening to this, he he loves you so much.

01:08:55.920 --> 01:08:56.960
Let me get rid of that.

01:08:57.119 --> 01:08:58.319
Let me add this in your life.

01:08:59.039 --> 01:09:06.960
Let me shave this off here, just because by the time you meet me face to face, I want you looking as much like Christ as you possibly can.

01:09:07.119 --> 01:09:14.319
So he's conforming us into the image of Christ, and he is using this next level of leadership that he's given us for that task.

01:09:14.479 --> 01:09:17.439
It's a tool in his hand to help us grow.

01:09:17.600 --> 01:09:21.920
So every person that's on a staff team, understand God's using you in that role.

01:09:22.079 --> 01:09:31.279
He's using every the people who get on your nerves, the pastor who doesn't understand you, the gift that you have that you're not able to use, but you know you feel you're supposed to use it, but you can't use it yet.

01:09:31.439 --> 01:09:36.000
He, all of that stuff, he's using it to shape you and mold you.

01:09:36.319 --> 01:09:39.520
And that has helped me tremendously.

01:09:39.680 --> 01:09:47.359
So I would say I'm excited now for the rest of the journey because I feel like, oh, this is what it is.

01:09:47.520 --> 01:09:49.680
Like, it's not gonna be something different.

01:09:49.760 --> 01:09:55.199
I'm not gonna reach some point where all of a sudden we don't have any struggle, problem, difficulty, and pain.

01:09:55.359 --> 01:09:59.279
And I'm like, Yeah, I've arrived.

01:09:59.600 --> 01:10:01.680
Oh gosh, say that from the choir.

01:10:01.840 --> 01:10:02.560
It's not happening.

01:10:02.880 --> 01:10:04.319
Don't you have that perception, though?

01:10:04.399 --> 01:10:07.920
And I think a lot of leaders do, that there is this utopian place.

01:10:08.000 --> 01:10:14.880
Like, well, once I get to this number of people, number of staff, when I have these ri that then, you know what, man, it's like at that point, it's coast.

01:10:15.039 --> 01:10:15.119
No.

01:10:15.520 --> 01:10:19.199
No, it's it's every level has a new demand, a new requirement.

01:10:19.680 --> 01:10:26.000
It's it's you're you're moving to the next level of your inadequacies and you're and you don't you've never been here before.

01:10:26.319 --> 01:10:28.560
And if you're willing to keep growing, if you're willing to keep growing.

01:10:28.880 --> 01:10:35.279
Because if I you can do this, I can do this, and every leader listening can go, God brought me to this next level, I'm stopping here.

01:10:35.520 --> 01:10:35.840
Exactly.

01:10:36.079 --> 01:10:37.359
I don't I don't want to grow anymore.

01:10:37.840 --> 01:10:39.359
I don't want to make any more sacrifices.

01:10:39.439 --> 01:10:42.159
I'm gonna live off of my sacrifices from years ago.

01:10:42.479 --> 01:10:49.119
I I Thanksgiving weekend, you know, I I usually don't preach that weekend, and I had a set of circumstances, my family came in.

01:10:49.199 --> 01:10:56.159
It's Thanksgiving weekend, and I went to our new campus in Argyle and went to church and just got in there.

01:10:56.239 --> 01:10:58.800
I hosted and and really built up the campus pastor.

01:10:58.880 --> 01:10:59.359
I love that.

01:10:59.600 --> 01:11:02.319
I walked away going, I gotta grow.

01:11:03.760 --> 01:11:11.600
I'm like, man, I'm the old school pastor, you know, in the and I thought, man, I gotta get better at this, I gotta grow at that.

01:11:11.760 --> 01:11:14.319
Yeah, but um, that's what makes the journey fun.

01:11:14.800 --> 01:11:16.000
It is what makes the journey fun.

01:11:16.159 --> 01:11:18.800
God is using this, even our marriage, he's using that.

01:11:18.960 --> 01:11:23.840
I'm not gonna get to a place where all of a sudden we're not growing in our marriage unless we want to settle.

01:11:24.079 --> 01:11:26.800
No, I want us to have the best marriage we can possibly be.

01:11:26.960 --> 01:11:27.199
Exactly.

01:11:27.439 --> 01:11:35.359
So with my kids, uh, with the staff team, uh, I'm trying to make sure I'm not setting goals to feed my ego, right?

01:11:35.439 --> 01:11:36.239
I don't want to do that.

01:11:36.479 --> 01:11:44.960
I want to set goals that are hopefully God inspired, but that will push all of us to accomplish his plan and his purpose.

01:11:45.119 --> 01:11:47.760
But I think if we do that, then I think God's like, let's go.

01:11:47.840 --> 01:11:48.640
You want to keep growing?

01:11:48.800 --> 01:11:49.039
Yeah.

01:11:49.199 --> 01:11:49.600
Let's go.

01:11:49.840 --> 01:11:52.720
Because I mean, growth means souls in heaven.

01:11:52.880 --> 01:11:53.119
Exactly.

01:11:53.279 --> 01:12:06.159
And for me, that in the last several years has become such, it's like, Lord, I'll sacrifice for eternity and for for families and people and legacies in terms of Christ-like eternal legacy.

01:12:06.960 --> 01:12:09.520
And so, you know, I'm willing to do it for that.

01:12:09.680 --> 01:12:09.840
Yeah.

01:12:10.079 --> 01:12:27.680
And that's that's where a lot, I think there's a narrative out there that I would just encourage people not to buy into that there is this world in which it is a stagnant, totally clean clean, cleansed from challenge environment.

01:12:28.239 --> 01:12:32.399
Because there's so much negativity today about actually moving stuff forward.

01:12:32.560 --> 01:12:33.760
It's like that's bad.

01:12:33.920 --> 01:12:36.000
I'm like, used to that used to be positive.

01:12:36.479 --> 01:12:44.560
You wouldn't be where you are, whoever that naysayer is, if somebody didn't try to push through the boundaries and make something better.

01:12:44.880 --> 01:12:45.279
Exactly.

01:12:45.600 --> 01:12:55.119
So that is one of my big frustrations with the brand of Christianity that I see today, where everyone not everyone, but enough people are like, no, I'm just gonna kind of do it on my own schedule.

01:12:55.520 --> 01:12:55.840
Yeah.

01:12:56.800 --> 01:12:57.119
Really?

01:12:58.000 --> 01:12:58.960
On your own schedule?

01:12:59.279 --> 01:12:59.600
Yeah.

01:12:59.920 --> 01:13:00.399
Wow.

01:13:01.039 --> 01:13:01.359
Okay.

01:13:01.840 --> 01:13:03.199
Show me all the Bible on that.

01:13:03.439 --> 01:13:04.960
Uh yeah, that's why we go and bring the Bible in.

01:13:05.119 --> 01:13:05.439
Yeah, yeah.

01:13:05.760 --> 01:13:08.479
Show me where Jesus called his disciples.

01:13:08.560 --> 01:13:14.319
I'm so glad Jesus did not give the Great Commission mission to us in our generation.

01:13:14.560 --> 01:13:14.960
Right.

01:13:15.279 --> 01:13:18.239
Because I don't know if we would have if the gospel would have made it.

01:13:18.800 --> 01:13:19.199
Wow.

01:13:20.479 --> 01:13:24.079
I had somebody tell me the other day, you guys really believe people go to hell?

01:13:24.399 --> 01:13:27.680
I'm like, yeah, I mean, it's in the Bible actually, you know, quite often.

01:13:27.920 --> 01:13:30.960
You know, do you really believe you're eternally separated?

01:13:31.119 --> 01:13:35.439
And and and the guy was like, Well, if y'all really believe that, y'all would live different.

01:13:36.239 --> 01:13:37.760
I was like, man, that's convicting.

01:13:38.079 --> 01:13:38.399
It is.

01:13:38.640 --> 01:13:41.279
It's like, if I really believe that, yeah, right.

01:13:41.439 --> 01:13:42.720
So this is so much bigger.

01:13:42.960 --> 01:13:49.439
It is and then you just turn 50, which now I hear you saying more stuff more because once you turn 50, you don't care.

01:13:49.520 --> 01:13:49.840
Yep.

01:13:50.000 --> 01:13:50.880
That's what happened.

01:13:51.199 --> 01:13:52.159
So I'm 52.

01:13:52.560 --> 01:13:53.439
You just turn 50.

01:13:53.680 --> 01:13:53.920
See that?

01:13:54.079 --> 01:13:56.239
So now you just tell people, you know.

01:13:56.479 --> 01:13:58.000
So that's the freedom that I feel.

01:13:58.159 --> 01:13:58.880
That's what you're feeling.

01:13:58.960 --> 01:13:59.199
Okay.

01:13:59.359 --> 01:14:00.960
And I'm here to tell you that's your older brother.

01:14:01.199 --> 01:14:01.600
I like it.

01:14:01.680 --> 01:14:02.159
I like it.

01:14:02.319 --> 01:14:02.960
I like it.

01:14:03.119 --> 01:14:03.520
Yeah.

01:14:03.680 --> 01:14:04.000
Yeah.

01:14:04.800 --> 01:14:08.479
So let's just say here's what here's here's this is amazing.

01:14:08.640 --> 01:14:11.520
So you have a ministry called Lyman, but you're not a Lyman.

01:14:12.079 --> 01:14:16.479
You will you were wearing cowboy boots Saturday, but you're not a cowboy.

01:14:17.199 --> 01:14:22.399
I got a hat in my bag right now that says cowboy hat, and it's a trucker hat.

01:14:22.640 --> 01:14:23.439
It's a trucker hat.

01:14:23.600 --> 01:14:23.760
Yes.

01:14:24.079 --> 01:14:32.239
So because you're way cooler than me, what is tell me what what is the deal behind a black hat that says a cowboy hat?

01:14:32.319 --> 01:14:33.039
Where does this come?

01:14:33.199 --> 01:14:37.680
What genre, what genre of coolness is are you originating this from?

01:14:37.840 --> 01:14:39.279
Or is this a this is European.

01:14:39.439 --> 01:14:40.640
No, wait, is this European?

01:14:41.039 --> 01:14:41.600
No, I don't know.

01:14:41.840 --> 01:14:42.560
I'll make it up.

01:14:42.800 --> 01:14:45.199
Wait, is this kind of OG coolness?

01:14:45.279 --> 01:14:46.800
Or are you emulating this?

01:14:47.039 --> 01:14:47.680
Just help me.

01:14:48.079 --> 01:14:50.319
Whatever my wife lays on the bed is what I wear.

01:14:50.399 --> 01:14:52.640
Okay, so why it's Onique.

01:14:52.880 --> 01:14:54.960
This is a big transparent moment for all the podcast people.

01:14:56.000 --> 01:14:59.520
You and your core do not have an inner core coolness.

01:14:59.760 --> 01:15:00.319
Zero.

01:15:00.560 --> 01:15:02.800
I'm wearing sweats every day.

01:15:03.359 --> 01:15:04.159
Basketball dresser.

01:15:04.239 --> 01:15:04.720
Hands bad.

01:15:04.880 --> 01:15:05.840
You do sweatpants.

01:15:06.159 --> 01:15:06.479
No doubt.

01:15:06.880 --> 01:15:09.760
All day long all day long.

01:15:10.000 --> 01:15:12.800
So my wife has been in a prison.

01:15:13.279 --> 01:15:16.079
She's been in those outfits we see you in.

01:15:16.399 --> 01:15:18.560
Yes, I'm in this and I'm like, I'm happy to know that.

01:15:18.800 --> 01:15:20.720
I'm like, honey, I look like a fool.

01:15:20.880 --> 01:15:24.079
This is too fashion born here, honey.

01:15:24.800 --> 01:15:25.119
It's good.

01:15:25.359 --> 01:15:27.279
She goes, no, it's fresh.

01:15:27.520 --> 01:15:28.399
It's fresh.

01:15:28.640 --> 01:15:30.000
And then one time she did this.

01:15:30.079 --> 01:15:31.119
I'm not lying.

01:15:31.279 --> 01:15:33.840
Uh she I put she put the outfit together.

01:15:33.920 --> 01:15:34.479
I put it on.

01:15:34.640 --> 01:15:35.920
She goes, no, no, take that off.

01:15:36.000 --> 01:15:36.560
Put this on.

01:15:36.720 --> 01:15:37.439
I put it on.

01:15:37.600 --> 01:15:39.359
She looked at it and she went.

01:15:41.439 --> 01:15:42.479
My work is finished.

01:15:42.880 --> 01:15:49.039
So this helps me a lot because honestly, I'm like, why is why is Earl so cool?

01:15:49.279 --> 01:15:50.319
And I'm not.

01:15:50.560 --> 01:15:54.319
But the real fact is, it's all coming to zero.

01:15:55.199 --> 01:15:56.079
Let me look at a camera.

01:15:56.239 --> 01:15:56.960
Give me a camera.

01:15:57.119 --> 01:15:58.239
None of this is true.

01:15:58.399 --> 01:15:59.920
This guy is so cool.

01:16:00.079 --> 01:16:02.800
This is Fort Worth cool all day.

01:16:05.119 --> 01:16:06.000
Man of God.

01:16:06.239 --> 01:16:06.960
I want you to know.

01:16:07.600 --> 01:16:08.720
Thank you for doing this.

01:16:09.039 --> 01:16:18.880
I know there are people out there getting in more inside track into your heart because you're so such a great communicator and leader, but just catching just a glimpse of your heart.

01:16:19.119 --> 01:16:19.359
Love you.

01:16:19.520 --> 01:16:20.079
I love you.

01:16:20.239 --> 01:16:21.039
You're my friend.

01:16:21.119 --> 01:16:21.920
Thank you for being there.

01:16:22.239 --> 01:16:22.640
Thankful for you.

01:16:22.880 --> 01:16:24.079
Thank you for pushing me forward.

01:16:24.239 --> 01:16:24.640
Thank you.

01:16:24.720 --> 01:16:26.720
If I go crazy, you're gonna come put me in a headline.

01:16:27.119 --> 01:16:28.720
And I will come put you in a headline.

01:16:28.960 --> 01:16:29.119
Thank you.

01:16:29.279 --> 01:16:29.840
We're in this together.

01:16:30.079 --> 01:16:30.800
We're in this together.

01:16:31.119 --> 01:16:31.279
Yeah.

01:16:31.920 --> 01:16:32.560
Love you, my man.

01:16:32.800 --> 01:16:38.640
I want to say thank you for checking out this episode of the Lead to Win podcast.

01:16:38.800 --> 01:16:49.600
I want you to know that I love and my team loves getting this kind of content into your life so it can help you lead and win at what matters most.

01:16:49.760 --> 01:17:03.039
So I'd love for you to do me a favor like, comment, especially subscribe if you would, so that we can make sure that we're able to get to you some of the things that are gonna help you lead to win.