David Green | The Mindset That Changed Hobby Lobby

The $20,000 Challenge From God

SPEAKER_04 0:00

God asked me to give twenty thousand dollars and I'm on the airplane coming back from this big convention. I says I don't have twenty thousand dollars. And we started in nineteen seventy, we borrowed six hundred dollars from the bank, and today we have I think eleven hundred stores and uh ours are about ten billion, and so God has blessed us. Somehow another Lord has just led us into giving 60% of our profits, so we do that uh for various ministries.

SPEAKER_03 0:25

I remember saying, You can't help give God, you know.

SPEAKER_04 0:28

And God caught me on it. So don't ever say that because you might get caught.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

They actually went back and restructured the ownership, and essentially everybody signed off and said, We're not owners, we're just stewards, and even if this company's ever sold, we're not getting anything out of it. It's gonna go to the kingdom. If it was about money, I would be bored to death.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

I wanna I want to say thank you to Mr. David Green. I uh we've had an opportunity to be together in a few settings, so I've been preaching back to you your message. Um I I I got a chance to to be in those settings and receive. And I I wanted you to come into our world, and I wanted, you know, I was telling you I I love the information, which by the way, we have we have your your book here, The Legacy Life, also with Bill High, who's with us as well. And I'll let you, Bill, share a little bit about y'all's relationship. But we're we we gave one of these to uh a lot of our leaders here in the church, and we're gonna have a little time with them. And so, and I'm thankful for that. But I'm really, I really wanted you to be here with us because I think there's something that happens spiritually. It's it's the word is impartation, which means to rub,

Why David Green Is Here

SPEAKER_01 2:00

but it means we got to get a little bit closer so that that come you know we we are able to receive some of that, and and so I want to say thank you for being willing to come and impart a little bit of that.

SPEAKER_04 2:12

Right, we're honored to be here, both of us.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

I'm so glad for me. So being in a few settings, listening to your story, Bill uh has interviewed you a couple of times. We're we're pulling these nuggets out, right? And so I was impacted uh one by your story, right? Like I want you to tell a little bit of just sort of your family story, the uniqueness of your calling and purpose, which was different than the majority of your primary family. And so take us a little through that and then lead us up to the start of Hobby Lobby. And so for I think m most people know, but we don't want to assume, but the business is is Hobby Lobby. Uh in that space, uh you guys are the industry leader, and then also being not a public company, but being and so we could talk about the scope of Hobby Lobby, which is is really amazing what God's done there. Uh but take us back a minute. Like, how did you, you know, tell us about your upbringing, tell us about coming up to kind of the start of Hobby Lobby.

SPEAKER_04 3:21

Yeah, sure. Well, I came up and I'm a preacher's son, okay. And so there were six of us children, and so my two brothers and three sisters all were pastors' wives or pastors, okay? So then there was this uh guy that didn't go that way, you know, he was the bad guy in the family, I guess. The black sheep, yeah. So that was who I was. So I kind of remember visiting my mother, they were pastoring, I think, uh, somewhere in Texas here. And uh anyway, I would come home and I'd and mom would always say, Well, you know, because I'd be bragging, you know, I'm over so many TG and Y. It was T G and Y back then, I was part of them, and I've got so many, I'm doing this, I'm you know, I'm this and that. And my mom would always say, Well, what are you doing for the Lord? You know, and I think back on that, and there couldn't be a better question. So good. So sometimes that's what we're doing. Well, I'm doing this, I'm doing that, and uh it really doesn't make a lot of difference in the long term. So that's what she would ask me. But anyway, we we continued on uh starting our own business, and we started in 1970, we borrowed $600 from the bank, and so uh we opened a little I didn't have you can't open a store with $600. So we started making little frames. My sons were seven and nine, and they glued the frames together. So we paid them seven cents a piece to glue these frames together. And my wife worked the first five years for zero, okay. So she between slave labor and child labor, we started. That was how we started our business, and so we got started. So anyway, today we have I think 1,100 stores, and uh our sales are about 10 billion, and so God has blessed us. And so why has he blessed us? And so I think we want to be blessed to uh to return whatever God has given us uh to him to tell people about Jesus. So that's our main thing is God's word and man so. Now, what's more important than those two things? And so we really want to know that that's our focus.

From Pastor’s Kid To $600 Start

SPEAKER_04 5:20

Now, you do a lot of things getting there, yeah, like you sell a lot of merchandise, you know, which is not the end, but it's the means to the end. Right. So we want to continue to do that, and we uh uh want to be good at what we do. So why do we want to be good at what we do? Because we're better. And when we're better, we earn more money and then we can give more money. That's so good. So over the years, God has just encouraged us to be to give what we what he has given us. We just assume we don't own anything, you know, that God and and we don't. But what God's word says is that he owns everything.

unknown 5:52

Right.

SPEAKER_04 5:52

I mean, you think about even Psalms 24 and 1, it says he owns everything.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 5:58

So it's not like, well, if I pay my tithes, I'm good. No, God owns everything. And so we want to know that God owns everything, and so then it's his. You know, it's what do we have that we can give to you, O Lord? So that's what we want to do.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

I I love so I'm I'm picking up God's word, mansoul. I think that's that's a great target, right? In other words, I'm gonna submit to God's word and because man's soul matters and there is a heaven and a hell, those two things keep calibrating me in terms of my my bigger kingdom vision. And but but what what do you think? Because Bill and I were actually talking about it. I think it actually I for me, I think I very much believe you growing up in a pastor's home, being around people, seeing your parents serve people, seeing them, you know, with pure hearts, you know, honor God impacted you. I think what sort of is probably the miracle in it all that you were able to scale to that size. Because you had you hadn't been you hadn't really ever been in a lot of that type of setting, right?

SPEAKER_04 7:08

So Well, I was with T J and Moah. Well, you were with Twitter. They went down they went down that they weren't a good person to follow. They didn't survive.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

They didn't survive. So you learn what not to do.

SPEAKER_04 7:18

Yeah, no. You can learn as much by what not to do, I think, sometimes as what to do. To do. We learned a little bit of what to do there, but they they didn't survive. So there isn't.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

Fair enough. So, David, you should go back because it's not like you had this idea you were going to go start out with 1,100 stores, at least at the very beginning, your first goal was to be a store manager. Give them that context. Okay. Because I think that's important.

SPEAKER_04 7:42

Yeah, no, no, I remember growing up, you know, because I came from from a family that didn't have a lot. When you have churches that are smaller than a hundred and you have six kids, you you don't have a whole lot, you know. And so so I remember that the biggest goal in my life was I want to be a store manager, you know. So that was it at one time was my goal, but but then God had a different goal for our lives. And I know that when I think about what he's done with our business, I just know that it's because of him. Right. And I think sometimes, because I'm not a theologian, but I think sometimes that God blesses things, it's his. There's absolutely no question in our family's life, we all believe that this business is not ours, you know, and not because we say so, because the Bible says so. That's right. That he owns everything. And so we just want him to know that. So that's what we've tried to do is to say, God, this is your yours, this is not us. And so how do we manage what belongs to you? And we're just managing what belongs to God, and then what would he do with it?

SPEAKER_01 8:42

Man, I so that that was an impartation, you know, for me. That's why I have you here today to to bless the people that we have coming from our church, listening on the podcast. We have pastors, we have uh our college students, we have you know, young leaders, we'll have teachers, different ones. And I really want everyone listening right now to catch that because I think a lot of us have heard that, you know, like we all start with, we're not the owner, God's the owner, we're stewards, we're not the, you know. I don't know, when you said it, it was like it for me, I was like it, it I don't know, it it it took because I think it I don't know, there was an impartation in it. And so take us to the take it, take me to as well, though, when you come to this place where you know, Hobby Lobby, you start, you want to be a store manager and you're faithful with the little and then it starts growing, but you do have a big moment where like whether you believe that or not, I mean it's easy to say God owns it all when there's not much to own. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:47

But it's also easy to say when there is a lot, but is that really where your heart is? Is that where your heart is? That is what's key. And I I I I hope that in our family we know we don't own it. I think we're there. You know, I don't think we're saying, oh, God owns it, and then we and then we spend the money. So how do how do you react if God owns it? One of the way we react is that we all get a salary, period. So whatever profit we make, we get none of it. So you we have a a team in the family uh uh that comes together, a a a group that says you should earn X for what you do. And so right now, by the way, I earn less than I did 25 years ago when you consider the cost of

Profit As A Means To Mission

SPEAKER_04 10:30

living and you consider the growth, then then it's not our money. And so we're treating it that way. Right. So somehow or another, the Lord has just led us into giving 60 percent of our profits. So we do that uh for various ministries that tell people about Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 10:45

Aaron Powell I think you should give them the context because it's not like you started out giving 60 percent, because that can be intimidating for people to hear. I mean, you first you saw it in your parents, so you should talk about that and lead them into how you got to 60%.

SPEAKER_04 11:01

I think how I got there was by by making a statement that we make sometimes that you can't outgive God.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

So I remember saying, you can't outgive God, you know.

SPEAKER_04 11:09

And God caught me on it. So don't ever say that, because you might get caught, you know. Yeah, you can't outgive God. So God says, Well, you really haven't tried, you know. And that's what I sensed from the Lord. Oh, you say you can't outgive me, but you really haven't tried.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

You you tell the story of the moment at the church service where they were taking up the offering, and you felt like God told you to give. Right. Uh I forget what it was at that time, but it was pretty much all you had. Right.

SPEAKER_04 11:33

It was like God asked me to give $20,000, and I'm on the airplane coming back from this big convention. I says, I don't have $20,000, so it can't Now I could have said, Well, it's not God because I don't have the money, but I knew that I knew that I knew that God who spoke to me to give $20,000. And we didn't have that kind of money. We I think had, I don't know, one or two stores, very, very small. And we talked about it, we prayed about it, and we said, well, what we'll do is we'll try to make four different payments on this. And so we sent 5,000, four checks a month apart, you know, and somehow God they none of them vowed, so we were good with that. But that was that was an important moment. But another important moment is when God just says, When I'm saying you can't outgive God, because it's so easy to say, yeah, I can't outgive God. Well, and so he said, Well, you really haven't tried. So we came home and we prayed about it. I told my kids, guys, we got to figure out how to outgive God, you know. And so that's when we started uh giving to one hope in every home for Christ, which we've been doing for 25 years. And one hope is we've told over a billion, not a million, but a billion. Half kids about Jesus with one hope in every home for Christ. We've we've been we've given the gospel to over a billion. God has allowed us to do that. But we started at that time saying, we don't know how to give God, but what we're gonna do is we're gonna give X amount of dollars. Okay, we're gonna start. And six months later, we're gonna add that same amount. And then six months we're gonna add that. Now, I'm not saying double every six months, but add that. If you give a dollar, give two, then three, then four. Every six months, it's uh, and about we looked at the numbers and I said, ah, about six, seven years. That's more than we do in cell. So, but we're gonna try to outgive God. And actually, we're ahead of schedule now because we God has his uh we're trying to outgive God. And you can't we can't outgive God. So the government allows you to give 60% of what you earn and and write it off, and so that's what we do. Because that that because it's not ours, it's his in the first place. We're just giving to him what belongs to him, and that's the way we see it.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

And so so the principle you're getting to, Bill, is he didn't you don't just start one day to write a 15 million, a 20 million, a fifty million dollar check. You start by we're gonna give the twenty thousand, we're gonna give the you know Yeah, no question.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

I mean, uh when they first started a course, they were making sixty bucks a week. And the idea of just tithing off of sixty bucks is an act of obedience. Right. And if you start there, then you can probably be led to the next step, which is giving that next big chunk of money in faith, even if you don't have it. Right. And then you're likely going to be challenged to go even further than that. And you're given obedience, but in joy as well.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Yeah. And it's it's and and so so then I I remember like so. Then you're coming along and and I remember you saying, I don't know, I just kind of pictured you in that moment because you were taking us through in one of these settings where you're like, the success I'm having could mess up my family, like it could be this this this could be not a blessing, but a take us into that moment where

Learning To Give Toward 60%

SPEAKER_01 14:50

you're kind of coming along with it.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

Walk walk them through that because that that first pivotal moment was getting to that giving of the 50, 60 percent. But then later, the company keeps growing. Right. And like a lot of people, it starts to become a weight. What am I gonna do with all this? So so take us through that.

SPEAKER_04 15:10

Yeah, I think I think when you're uh you're growing, you're the most important thing in my life, besides I think God has given us a a desire to tell people the most important thing in life and that that God has died for you and He He loves you and He's gonna save you. But I saw that success could really be a negative for our family. And I saw that. And so we've tried to do a lot of different things in our family that would maybe this won't happen. And one of those things is we have a committee that decides on our salaries, and no one, by the way, gets one penny out of Hobby Lobby that they don't earn. So I feel like that when people earn what they get rather than I think the worst thing this may sound strange, but I think the worst thing you can do for a kid is do for a kid. Okay. You know what I'm saying. I hear what you're saying. I'm not saying that's a good thing. Oh, there's time and places, but I think that that for someone to get something they don't earn, I think that's one of the worst things that can happen to them. That's just what I feel like.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Well you were in that setting and we were maybe it was a smaller setting, but I'm gonna say because you were transparently what you really said was, you know, because you and I were just talking, and you're like, I don't want to retire. I I I I'm living my purpose. I may have a different role, but I'm not retiring from the kingdom, right? When your point was, I don't want to create a scenario where one of my grandkids or my kids have no reason to get out of bed, really, right? In other words, they I don't want to create a scenario where they don't develop that purpose and they don't want to work or find the joy in that.

SPEAKER_04 16:39

Well, some would say, well, why don't you give them money that they earned because they earned this money and give them motivation? What better motivations do we have than to have someone to know Jesus and accept eternal life? We're only here, the Bible says, for vapor. That's our life is vapor. And so it excites us to know that we're able to let people know the the good news. And of course, that's what we're trying to do with whatever God has given us. And he but it belongs to Him. And that's and we I believe we truly believe that. Now, where to put all this money, that's a whole nother thing, and that's a challenge, but God is helping us do that.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Well, yeah, I love that too, even because you you also are being you know, listening to God stewarding. You have of some values, the word of God, souls, impacting souls. You know, I I know some of your grids. I don't know all of them because we're learning, but I love the fact that you have also developed some things that stewarding it means getting an eternal return on investment, too, right? You're not just like, hey, let's just throw it. We want to, you know, we want to get uh an eternal investment return for souls. Bill, what do you feel like from the story? I know you've helped sort of pull the story out. What do you feel like are some critical things that people listening, you're like, I I feel like they really need to get this impartation.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

Well, I really want you to keep going on that story because you're feeling this weight, David, of what do you do with it? And this is a difficult time because you part of what you've recognized is that if all I did was pass on this wealth, you could ruin your kids. And you got great kids and great grandkids that are all really good people, but lead them to in that time of in the backyard.

SPEAKER_04 18:22

The Lord just talked to me because I was praying, because I felt this weight of all all this that it had given me. And I think that was when God gave me the vision of exactly what we should do with what belongs to him. And I think that we have to know that we don't own anything, he does. We're not gonna take anything with us, we're here for a short time. And so I think we need to get that. That is that that this is nothing but a vapor, this life that we have. And as you get older, you realize that a little bit more. But I think it was in the in the backyard when I was praying and asking God to help me because I did feel the weight of what he had given us. And when you have a lot of money, you have a lot of weight. So there's a lot of ways in with with success that you can actually ruin a family. And that's the last thing we wanted to do. So I feel like God has guided us in terms of this is not yours. I think that's a good place to start. It's not yours. Well, I earned it, I worked harder. No, no, no, no. You it's it's God's, it belongs to him. Where did you get the breath you have to make this money? Where did you get the brain? Where did you know? So I give him glory for anything that's positive about Hobby Lobby, but then I want to make sure he knows he owns it, and I want to, I want to be a good steward of what he owns. I do not own it. My family does not own it. I think that's a good starting spot in life is you don't own anything. God does, and how are you going to steward whatever God has given you?

SPEAKER_02 19:45

And Jeff, I just want to underline about their story that a lot of people could miss is that uh David started out by saying a lot of people say God's the owner, but not many people do anything about it. Right. So after that conversation in the backyard with God, where David has to say, God, you're the owner, they actually went back and restructured the ownership. And essentially everybody signed off and said, We're not owners, we're just stewards. And even if this company's ever sold, we're not getting anything out of it. It's going to go to the kingdom. And that meant that not only David and Barbara had to sign it, but then their kids and their in-laws and any adult grandkid. Now, I know that we've got some of your ambassadors

When Success Feels Like A Weight

SPEAKER_02 20:30

listening to this as well, but if you can imagine being a 20-something-year-old and being putting a document in front of you that and signing it and saying, Yeah, I'm not interested in this multi-billion dollar company. I give it up because it's God's. So I look at their family and think, wow, what a story. What a story.

SPEAKER_04 20:47

See, Bill is an attorney. And his name is Bill High. Going there. So he helped me a lot. And I and that's where I'm going with the fact that's a good attorney name, Bill High. But uh he helped me.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Most attorneys are pretty high. Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 21:06

And so he helped us a lot with the paperwork that we had to know that no one owns anything. No one gets anything other than a salary. And we just think that's the way it ought to be.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

Well, it's it's I know you're a humble person, but Bill, what you're getting at here is is you have a lot of people say, I'm a kingdom builder, I'm a legacy, I'm a this, I'm a, you know, I'm doing this for the kingdom. But when you start saying you build up to 60 percent of profits and hundreds of millions of dollars, that you're actually, you know, I always like to say there's a difference in aspirationally being generous and actually writing the check, right? That's that's that's no for me it's admirable because again, I mean we're talking about it to inspire the people coming behind. Mr. Mr. David doesn't need any, he's doing it for Jesus, but it's an inspirational thing to me.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

I know that you guys signed that giving pledge, you know, that Bill Gates uh And Warren Buffett. But what's the risk of giving 50% at your death? There's no risk at that. You're gone. But the idea of being able to give 50% of your income this year, or 60% of your income, that's a profound thought. And then the idea where they went further beyond that is the idea that, hey, God, you're the owner. This truly, we've given up the ownership of the company, and we're just going to take a salary. That's pretty much unheard of these days.

SPEAKER_04 22:28

But what you just said is where I think we have to get, I have to get, our family has to get, and I think we are. It's not ours, you know. So we don't hardly even see ourselves giving it. This is what God has given us. He's blessed us, it's his, and we're just giving it back to who owns it. Because he owns it. So if we can't get there, then we're not ready for second base. First base is we don't own it. The Bible says we don't own it. Everything's his. And so hopefully that's I think that's where our family is. I I believe it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Do you think people get a little bit too weird about the fact that okay, you said we did it to honor God and we're submitted to God's word. But is there a connection to the fact that God keeps blessing it because you took that posture?

SPEAKER_04 23:14

You know, sometimes I'm not a theologian, but sometimes I think the reason why that God blesses Hobby Lobby, we're very profitable. There isn't a company that makes, you know, we're doing very, very well. And I think it's because it's his. You know, why would he not bless? Now, by the way, we've had some very, very difficult times during COVID, and that's been good for us, you know, to be just who we are, hopefully that we go through these tough times. But I think also, in addition that we have gone through tough times, even though we're it belongs to him. But I think somehow that maybe

Signing Away Ownership For The Kingdom

SPEAKER_04 23:50

he blesses it because it's his, you know. And and so why would he not bless what's his? But it's I I really believe our family is knows that it's not ours. Now we got other areas that we need to work on, but as far as Hobby Lobby, we don't own it. And I think we all see that.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

I think he he blessed it because it's his, but I think he also blesses it because you're excited about his mission. Yeah. He's also very excited.

SPEAKER_04 24:14

I mean, he's very He was so excited he died on the cross. So how much is such a low turn, right? You know, I mean, that's what, you know. But yeah. Yeah. If he died on the cross for my sins, he he cares. And so he, if he cares that much, we we as Christians should care for the same things. And that's why sometimes I just try to find out, you know, what makes this work? You know, in a Hobby Lobby, you know, we make money by buying and selling merchandise. So that I got it. We buy and sell merchandise. So I spend 90% of my time in that department, you know. The warehouse, those are really important. You got to get the goods to the store. But we buy and sell merchandise. That's the focus. For me as a Christian, the focus ought to be I need to see as many people to come to know Christ as I possibly can.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

Is that is it true that's what you still like to do? Like you still are you like a buyer?

SPEAKER_04 25:06

I only spend 90% of my time buying and selling merchandise.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

And you still do it. I still do it. You still do it. You're still like involved with the buying. Because you believe that's where you're making your money when you Well, that's that's where our that's our ministry.

SPEAKER_04 25:18

Our ministry is making money to tell people about Jesus. Tell people about Jesus. So yesterday I was with the guy that's gonna follow me, and I said, I'm gonna show you something that's very simple, and it doesn't sound like it's much, but it only affects 1,100 stores. Oh, by the way, about a thousand of these little things make the difference. So we're gonna do one tomorrow, one tomorrow, you know. So we're in the weeds, and that's where we are. But you also have to have great people. God has really blessed us with a lot of great people that take other departments. Like, you know, IT, it's terrible. That's a terrible department, you know.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

You said you only got a cell phone two years ago?

SPEAKER_04 25:53

I I never had a cell phone. It has no laptop, no computer. But I do have this, and I've had it for about 40 years, and everything you want to know is in there. That little Bible. That has every kid I have in there. Oh, your grandkids, your prayer list, is that kind of you make your scriptures, yeah, and notes. And there's my my scriptures and uh So you you confess those every day? Not every day. Not every day, but some. But you gotta you anchor. That's what he calls MyPad. MyPad. Not iPad, but MyPad. And I never charge it. It never goes. Anything you want to know is in that pad. It's in that pad. And I change it about every three years. Now that's not fun writing all this stuff over there, but the rest of it is notes. But anyway, I don't recommend that for anybody. That's just me, okay? But you can use your stupid phone if you want. You know, and it goes dead on me.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

I want to take a moment to honor one of our incredible partners, the Wesleyan Investment Foundation, also known as WIF. WIF exists to serve local churches by helping make building projects possible. They specialize in providing loan assistance so churches can expand, renovate, and ultimately create more space to reach people and make an eternal impact in their communities. Right now, WIF supports around 1,400 loans with churches and organizations across North America, all while operating exclusively for charitable purposes. For more information, you can check them out at their website, WIFOnline.com. We're grateful for partners like WIF who are investing in what God is doing in the local church and here at Lead2Win. What has on the team building side, what would you

Why The Business Still Stays Fun

SPEAKER_01 27:40

say, what has been unique about Hobby Lobby with like your team and how your team has embraced your calling and the vision? What are some thoughts there for people? Because I mean I think that's a big part.

SPEAKER_04 27:51

You know, I think people know who we are. And I so we somehow another we attract really good people. And so, and I think for sure God blesses us and he's I give him credit for the team we have. We have a great team. And so we have just really, really good people. So I give them honor for what they've done to make Hobby Lobby for what it is, which is a very profitable, good company. Yeah. That we have problems, you know. But at the same time, overall, we have a lot of great people. But I think people are attracted to us, but we're also trying to do everything we can. We think we should take care of our people before we give our our do our giving. We have to we should take care of them, be the one of the best in starting people and highest minimum wage. Yeah, one of the we should have one of the high highest starting minimum wages. And so those are some of the things. What are you up to now? Well, I think we're at twenty fifteen and we'll be probably at twenty-one. That's minimum wage. But then we get median.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Then we're paying your employees a starting wage of $21 an hour, roughly $20 on to just a starting minimum.

SPEAKER_04 28:56

But that's not their insurance that we pay for a lot of a lot of other things that are involved in that. They're $401K, et cetera, et cetera. So we wanna we wanna do we can do better and we should do good and we should care about the people. But then we also say sometimes that yes, that's we have a responsibility, they have a responsibility to take on more responsibilities, become assistant manager, a manager, et cetera, et cetera.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

But uh that that's such a great thing too, because the generosity spills over to the fact that you also are generous toward your people and and have created in a climate where you want the best for you.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

Yeah, Jeff, one of the things uh we the le previous book was called Leadership Not by the Book. Okay. And I had the opportunity to go interview some of the top leaders in the company, and we asked them really one question what's the secret sauce of Hobby Lobby? Why does this work when it shouldn't? But one of their testimonies about working for David and the family is they sent out a monthly newsletter, and the newsletter talks about things that they're giving to. And the employees, the leaders, were excited about being part of a company that was so generous because they knew that on their own they couldn't be that generous, but they could be part of that.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

And that was a consistent theme among the leaders is that they were part of something that they couldn't otherwise do themselves.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

That's so good. So I I had here, um I I had we've hit most of the questions, but I did I asked some of our younger, because as as we had we had some of our college students, and then I asked, but you know, you know, thinking about the word legacy, right? So what someone someone listening, maybe they're younger, and and they're they're wanting to be intentional about thinking about their legacy. What advice would you give them if they're like, okay,

The Bible As David’s “MyPad”

SPEAKER_01 30:50

I want to start now thinking about my legacy? What what thoughts would you give to that person?

SPEAKER_04 30:56

Yeah, I think uh thinking about our legacy is very, very important. It is to me. And so what I want to do in my life is I want to make sure that whatever we're doing, it goes past myself. And so it goes past myself in our business and whatever we're able to do. And uh, and sometimes it may even be the legacy you brought someone to Christ and what they do. So that's all part of your legacy, you know. So I look at a lot of people that have come to know Christ. I think because of some of the ministries we're in, I think that that that is even part of our legacy. So that's what we want to do is we want to note that we're making that after we're gone, our legacy is there's still people that come to know Christ. And that's you know that's as you've as I've said so many times, it's just the bottom line for us is that we need to tell people about the good news. The greatest thing that's ever happened on this earth. And sometimes as Christians, we can get off of that, you know. We're we're doing a lot of things that's important, but not quite as important.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Not the most important. Bill, when you've when you've brought the family through the process, right? I think a lot of people ask, we're gonna have a meeting in a minute, and I'm gonna ask this again. I want us to really but I think a lot of people feel like it's a nebulous target, right? And we know God's a generational God. What are some of the practical things that you feel like has made it possible for their family to be generational? Like what are those things?

SPEAKER_02 32:22

Yeah, the research tells us it's in the book, but the there's we we can look at it from a scriptural basis, we can look at it from a historical and sociological basis, but we know the factors that make families successful generationally and have the biggest impact in the world. God gave Abraham a vision. So families need a clear vision that's generational in nature. By the time you get into Exodus, he gave them a law, he gave them a code of conduct, a way to live that's different from the rest of the world. Sometimes the law gets a bad rap, and we try to step back from that and say, why do you have a law? It's really about having a set of values that you live by. So in their case, they have three family values. So if you define your values, you got a better chance of being

Team Culture And Paying People Well

SPEAKER_02 33:10

generational in nature. And then what we see consistently that their family does, but also in scripture, you got to have a regular family meeting. They have a monthly family meeting to go over their giving. It's really a reinforcement of family values. So those are some of the big factors if a family is gonna be successful generationally. They got to think as a team, not just what's in it for me. Clear vision, mission, values, code of conduct. They gotta navigate their conflict well, and then they've got to have a regular family meeting.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

What did you think about what you said on your way here? Y'all were talking about a family worldview. Is that kind of what you would say is part of what makes you have that?

SPEAKER_02 33:50

Yeah, that's I mean, again, we learn some of this just from watching their family, like David talked about when they were growing up, their family worked together. And that's you used to be the way families really grew up, is that they work together. But this idea of that family is meant to be an interdependent. We need one another, a multi-generational team.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

Because family's the microcosm of the church.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 34:13

The hand doesn't get to say, I don't need my foot. Exactly. And you don't get to do that inside the family. I need you in the same way that you need me in the context of the body and in the context of the family.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

I love it. So good. Anything with the book, um, anything like that that you see now as another step or where your family is or where we're going. I mean, you write a legacy book, but you are still writing your legacy because you're still here. But what are you excited about in in in the coming days or what's what's kind of stirred you up, uh, Mr. Davis?

SPEAKER_04 34:50

I ex I'm excited about being alive, you know. So I just I wanted I want to continue to do obviously as you have a company, we've had a company now, we started in 72 that's that's continues to be better. We can be better, so we never say we're we're good. We just keep getting and by the way, it changes. What was good yesterday is not good today. And so that's where we talk a lot about don't tell me that we've always done it, because sometimes that's where you get stuck. Yeah. You know, in church and business. Well, we've always done it this way. Well, we've always done it wrong. You know, sometimes. But sometimes it was right yesterday and not tomorrow. So it really keeps us on our toes. I think that idea keeps us just always trying to, hey, this is today, not yesterday. And there's new stuff all the time, you know, crazy things, you know, like a stick of butter that we we buy that's squeezy. What you know, anyway, we sell it not hard, the soft button. No, it just no, it I mean, it's a toy, you know, and you just squeeze it and the squashies or something like that. We only sell a few million of those and I flying those things in. So there's always something like that that's crazy that just keeps the same.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

Oh, the little toy that's helping people with the anxiety, the kids with anxiety, right? We'll be here for a long time.

SPEAKER_04 36:11

Sometimes there's things like that just to get you excited, you know. You just sell a billion of them, you know. So some of that, and it's that's why I asked God to take me while I'm working. I can't imagine not working, you know. I just can't. So I think he'll do that.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

I don't you think that's a trait too, though, of successful people. They they they like the

Building A True Family Legacy

SPEAKER_01 36:30

word. They they they like what in other words, I've not seen anyone successful that was was not excited about it. Wasn't about the the results, the scoreboard, yes, those play into it, but at the raw level, you just love buying merchandise and selling it to people.

SPEAKER_04 36:49

And a markup, it's got to have a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

You got a markup.

SPEAKER_04 36:52

No, we need a profit because the profit's not ours, it's god's, and so that's that's what makes it excited. Can we tell more people? And that's that's what we always go back to. But business is a lot of fun, so it's the means to the end. So the means is fun. Yeah. For the end. Yeah. We know we we have a reason to want to work harder and be better. Right. But if it's if if it was about money, I would be bored to death. You know, I just I don't know. We passed that a long time ago. And so, you know, we're we're not all there, but it we we passed that a long time ago.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

Final thing I want you to talk about, and then we're gonna we're gonna go minister to some other people. But um one other thing that impacted me that you talked about, and I'm gonna do it here in September with a lot of our legacy leaders, is you talk about business people, because we do have a lot of business people listen to this, business people feeling you know, sent, sent forth, commissioned as a merchant. So talk a minute. You're your family, you were the only one. You know, your mom's like, what are you doing for the Lord? Talk about that night where you you had that experience, because that I was just telling you, that thing you shared in the setting has caused a bunch of us pastors to figure out how to take our business leaders and have a commissioning, which I'm gonna do in September, and I'm gonna tell this group of people. Tell us about it real quick.

SPEAKER_04 38:12

Yeah, I'm not real sure how everybody outside a pastor. Pastor knows he's been called, and so I've seen all my life we lay hands on pastors and set them forth, you know.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Okay, yes.

SPEAKER_04 38:23

So not that it hasn't been done right, but I I see an awful lot of that in my in my growing up. We're gonna set you forth. And yet God has created every one of us for a purpose. Every one of us. Right. Every you know, like my five brothers and sisters. Well, I'm the merchant, but I have a purpose in my life as well. So I I I tell sometimes the story about being at this particular place where this evangelist got up and said, I want all you business guys to come come up front and we're gonna set you forth. Yeah. I've seen that all my life with pastors, but not in a businessman. And it really, I I'll never forget it. I know how it touched me.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:07

Because you recognize that not just you, the pastor, and I know pastors understand this and maybe preach it to some extent, but I think some of us out here don't really realize that God has a purpose on every single one of our lives. And so I knew God had a purpose for my life, and so that helped me, I think, to know that there's a purpose for what we do. Yeah. Buying and selling merchandise, there's a purpose, and we have to fulfill that purpose. So that was a big day in my life that I'll never forget. That we're being set forth just like a pastor to be out here to do all that we can do.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

They came, they laid hands on you. You felt like, okay, this was a you felt a new level of confidence, God's anointing, because you had been commissioned as a merchant.

SPEAKER_04 39:52

And I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I'm not supposed to be preaching and pastoring, and I love my pastor, and we've got the

Commissioning Business Leaders With Purpose

SPEAKER_04 40:00

best, but but at the same time, I have I've been commissioned to do something, or I have a purpose. I like to put it in that form. God has created software purpose. What is your purpose? It's not just uh sometimes as Christians we just want to gather more and we're gonna be happy, and that doesn't do it. That doesn't do it.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

Bill, tell me a little bit about the book and tell me what was the what was the goal here and like as you guys are now branching out and sharing in in some settings. What what are you what what what's kind of been the target with that? What's well David and I met about 25 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

Hard to believe. But uh we started just as people would come into some of the things that we were doing with leaders, people would ask us questions about well, how do you do this and why do you do this? And that ultimately has led to several books. Yeah and this most recent one is really the outgrowth of people asking this question to David, which is David, how do you do this thing called family? And why do you think generationally? And you've got your own story, of course. Uh, you grew up in a pastor's family.

SPEAKER_00 41:04

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 41:05

Yeah. And Bill, by the way, has been a great help to our family and helped us put together this uh document that I think has really served us well because it seems like the family needs something that's, you know, we live on the Bible, but somehow or another we bring it down to what's really important to us. So Bill has really helped us with this uh document that we come together that has our vision, our mission, uh, and the values of our company uh of our family.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

So good.

SPEAKER_04 41:32

So the vision is to go on the the adventure of impacting our world for Christ, and the mission is to love God intimately and live extravagant generosity. So those are some of the things that we put together with his help, and so it's been a real uh positive thing for our family to have this particular document because this is who we want to be, and it's all based on God's word.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

All based on God's word. Um we can get we're gonna get into it because you guys have been involved with the Museum of the Bible. In fact, that's where you and I sat together at an event and we're there, and I'm I'm just so impactful. You've you've you've narrowed down some areas, you know, God's word. One that I love we were just talking about is there's a real heaven and a real hell, right?

SPEAKER_04 42:17

Right. And that that should give us motivation. So some people say, What do you what is your motivation? Well, what better motivation do we have? And we all should have some calling on our life or some purpose. Did God create us without a purpose? I don't think so. So hopefully we have a purpose, every one of us, and it's all different for each one of us. But are we fulfilling what God intended for us? I don't think he intended us to just get more and not be happy, so we got to have more and more and more. I don't think that's what he wants from us. I think he wants us to find out what's important to him. And what's important to him is in this word of which we love, and that's why we want to be involved with it, with the museum as an example.

SPEAKER_01 42:59

Yeah, that's an example

The Legacy Life And Final Charge

SPEAKER_01 43:00

of one of the areas. So you begin to clarify some places that you feel like, but but again, what I love is you know, the the target, right? Like it it it you keep coming back to that. It's the whole Bible is about Jesus. And Jesus came to save the world, and that's what I just I just love because you know that that has been a real calibrating thing for you and for your family, right?

SPEAKER_04 43:25

And so yeah, I think it's real easy to get off target. There's so many different ways. And so I try in business to say, you know what, why we're here, we're here to make money, you know. So that's what we're doing. Uh and of course, you got to to do that, you wait on customers, you you you you want to be good at what you want to do. We're merchants and we want to be the very very very best. But the ultimate goal, now why do you want to make money? You know, well, we want to tell people about Jesus. So we have a goal.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:52

And so I think we need to be clear on what we're trying to accomplish. What we're trying to accomplish in Hobby Lobby is to tell as many people as we can about Jesus. So what is your goal? You know, it's to make, you know, sometimes it's to get more and then get more, then get more. I got a boat, but there's a bigger one, then there's a bigger one, then there's a bigger one. You know. Boats are okay, okay. But at the same time, I think we have to think in terms of what is the purpose, uh, what is my purpose? God created all of us for a purpose, right? And we want to find out what that purpose is, and certainly leading people to know Jesus has to be the most important thing in our lives, and hopefully it is.

SPEAKER_01 44:31

Well, I want to say thank you. You know, I know my thanks, you do it because you're convicted to do it, and I say this in all sincerity, you know, as a pastor, we're thankful for people that are merchants who get the goal, you know. Um on a pastor side, a lot of times we feel like we have to say, hey, we're behind you, do well, we're praying for you, praying for your business, but don't forget what your mom said. Who's getting saved? What are you doing for the Lord? What are you doing for the Lord? Thank God for your mom. And so, mom, but I got four more stores. You know. And so, on behalf of pastors, thank you for the generosity you and your family have expressed to advance the kingdom, to, you know, for the Bible for lost souls. Thank you for modeling it. And uh, and we we just we thank God for you and your family. I wanted to personally say thank you for checking out the lead to win podcast. I love bringing this conversation to you, and I hope it adds value to you. If you wanted to do something to help the Lead to Win podcast, hit that like button. Even more importantly, hit the subscribe button and check out our next episode because we have some great ones coming up just for you.