Bonus Episode with Brooke Ligertwood - Live from Leaders Gathering 2026!

0:00 Well, welcome back. It is an exciting time around here because we've just wrapped up two days of our leaders gathering event. It's been incredible. We've had such an amazing time, so many guest speakers, and I believe over 2,000 pastors and ministry leaders that have joined us for the last two days. It's been incredible. We've had amazing guests. I think of Brooke Lidgerwood, who led worship for us over the last two days. It's been incredible. And what we wanted to do was bring you inside some of these sessions. There were so many that were incredible, but one of our favorites was the moment where Brooke got to sit down with Pastor Jeff and Pastor Dino Rizzo.

0:41 And it was a really special moment talking about the heart of worship and really the collaboration between worship and pastors and how that affects the body of Christ. We're so excited to share it with you. Let's check out this session now. How do we show people that head and mess with Christ? Everything, all the other things, all the fruit on the branches comes from fruit springs and beef. Um how do we do it? Brooke, you, I mean, how God has used you and your husband and the team. Um, I mean, so much of the church, what we've seen has come out of the heart that you have for worship. What how how do you see worship?

1:22 You've just in a you said, this is how I see worship. Um I see worship as a as a weapon. Um I I'll also tell you what I don't see worship as. I don't see worship as evangelism. Um, worship is not for evangelism, worship is for God's glory. Um, but Jesus said when he's lifted up, obviously he was referring to the crucifixion that he will draw all people to himself. But um but worship is not for evangelism. Worship is, it goes back to my own experience where um as a 15-year-old girl in a country in a family that um had no knowledge of Jesus. Wow. Um, I uh I had a lot of questions that nobody around me could answer.

2:06 Um I didn't really know any Christian, no one had explained the gospel to me. Um, but I had these questions, uh, this angst in my soul that this couldn't be all there was to it. Um I felt like there was a God and that he liked me, but I didn't know how to get to him. Um and so um at 15 I got to a really dark place and asked my mum if she would take me to a church. So we walked into a little salvation army in Lower Heart, New Zealand. We walked in and out of the church um that that morning uh without anyone having noticed us, which is okay. Um and so I hopefully this encourages you that even when all our systems don't work or we don't get it right, that the Lord's still sovereign. But um during worship um at that little Salvation Army church, the sound wasn't great, the songs weren't the most current, whatever, um, I had a radical encounter with the presence of God.

2:57 Um and I went home that night, found a Bible, barricaded myself in the room, started reading the New Testament, and asked Jesus to be my Lord. Um, didn't realize for a few months that I had become a Christian. Um and so then I started going back to that little salvation army, but um, but there in the presence of God, not as someone even explained the gospel to me, but as Jesus was exalted and his presence was welcomed, I as a person who literally just walked in off the street had an encounter with the God of love that I had always hoped to know, who then led me to himself. So yeah. Wow. So good. That's just that just seems right. You know, in God's presence.

3:38 Yeah, you know, I know Jeff, you've got worship leaders that you've raised up, and I know the heart here has always been to keep it like that. I mean, that's been important to you. To keep these, to keep it simple and about the gospel. And I know you have a lot of interaction with your worship leaders here. Yeah, Betsy who opened, she's like my sister, so you know, she um she and her husband Tyron became part of our church before we moved here. And so we've been building together for all these years, and uh it's it's I think there's there's something about what it brings to the culture of the church. And I told you this that I just want to honor you.

4:18 It may seem obvious, but I want to honor you for singing songs about Jesus. I know that seems basic, but I think I think it's it's just I I think it it's just something that I find refreshing because I think we know what gets clicks and we know what can can kind of but I but I believe the the exaltation of the name of Jesus. I wanted to ask you though, you know, is that something that just flowed out of your relationship with Jesus, or how do you actually, as you're writing, you know, how do you how do you coach that in other worship leaders to make the song not because we we sing before we preach.

4:58 Rick Warren said many years ago you can change a church's uh theology faster than you can change its music, right? So the music carries the theology, the culture, and the essence of the church. So is that something you just do intuitively or is it something you do intentionally? That's a great question, Pastor. Um I uh well I I I guess again it comes back to um the roots of how Christ saved me. And that that that night after I met him in the Word and ask him to be my Lord from then I developed a voracious hunger for reading the Bible and prayer and prayer. And um and that really informed um and developed um all of my early devotional language uh was really anchored um in the word.

5:46 I haven't had any formal study or training. I would love to do that one day, but um but uh uh intrinsic in, and I guess you know, I learned to do warfare in my room, and I learned that um when I prayed this and when I worshipped and sang out this, there you go, this shifted and changed. Um and so I I think rather than it being something architected and constructed, it but it should be encouraged, I think it has to start with um um what are what is formational in our prayer life and um and having the word be the anchor of our our prayer life. I think out of that flow flows what we sing to him, out of that flows um what we sing together as the body of Christ.

6:28 And um, you know, I think I I pray that um I I I really feel like a lot of um what I'm supposed to be doing is writing for actually the kids who are sitting in the backseat of our cars. I love it. Um, because those are the pastors and the leaders that I'm hoping to encourage. So it's funny, I feel like my eyes are like 50 years in the future. Um, if I'm around then or not, I don't know. But I'm thinking about I've got two little girls, Scott and I have two little girls, eight and ten years old. I'm thinking about the the Bible teachers and the leaders of the church who are going to be leading when when they're grown up. Like, how can I bless them now? So I'm trying to be sneaky by getting in through their parents.

7:09 Um, but really it's um hopefully like a generational, like may we see a Josiah generation is what my prayer is, um, just for the for the teenagers and the students and the kids, uh a generation that have recovered the word of God. And so really it's just kind of me trying not so obviously, not so, not so subtly to to um to get the word in the mouths and in the hearts and the spirits of these kids who are going to be leading the church in the generation to come. Yeah. Love it. So that's so good. Yeah, yeah. Man, that's so so beautiful. So beautiful. I I had another question. So, you know, this is this is for equipping and and a there's 500, you know, senior pastors here, but there's also so many that lead, lead, you know, lead a yeah, because worship is in the kids' ministry.

7:58 Some of my best worship leaders are already signed to NL NIL contracts in the kids' ministry. So um, sound if you're trying to steal them, and we already got them signed. We got them on NIL money. So so there's so many kids ministry teams, youth pastors, and we know we know the the the story of Satan and worship leader and this, and there's there's we it's such a big part of what we do, and there's there's obviously spiritual warfare, and I'm speaking specifically about the relationship between a pastor, a youth pastor, a children's worker, and a person who's gifted, and a person who's a worship leader.

8:42 What would you say to us? Like, how can I be better at pastoring my worship team, worship leaders, maybe not even the singers, the band. How how can I get better? Give give me what you would tell me if you could just say whatever to like this is what we need, or this is what you know, just give us a little coach up. Gosh, well, I I yeah, I I'm at that stage where you go, what do I know? Uh but but I um first of all, I just think even asking the question is the place to start. But it's if you never even if it never occurs to you to ask that question, but um, maybe that's where to start. That's a good thing. So the fact that yeah, the fact that that is in your heart and that is your mind to be to to look at your people and and um see them as gifts God has given you and um precious lives to steward, that's how it starts, right?

9:30 Is I I think I'm just uh yeah, just like I'm sure your team are always asking you how they can serve you and and and that it can change season to season in one season, um how you can be supported and come around and might look different to another. Um and I think that's the same for for all of our lives. But I just think asking the question is a beautiful place to start. That's so good. What would you say to so you're saying you're writing music for these younger leaders? Okay, so if you had a mentor moment for the the young, the the fifth grader who's starting to write songs, anything from technical things they can be better at or heart things, what what do you say to a generation that that's looking at you and and and what what what what can we do?

10:14 What what what are some conversations we need to have? Like how do we help them? How do we you know it it is such a different dynamic to today? Just the world of worship is different, church, you know. So what would you what would you say? What what what are some just uh principles that could help us all be better? That's great. I mean, I think that it um I also can I ask you questions as well because I feel like um I I I think it's the I think overall, and I'm sorry if I keep taking it too broad, but because a lot of these the things that apply to um creatives or worship teams are actually principles that apply across the life of discipleship. And I think uh a treasure, uh a treasure that I wonder how I'm always asking myself, how can we teach this?

10:58 How can we show this? Because by nature it's difficult to be shown, but is the hidden life and and the iceberg life, how do we disciple the generation in the in the unseen, you know? Um, especially in the age of where everything is being, where everything is seen. Like, and I don't think the answer is to record yourself doing a prayer time. That's where I mean oh sorry, sorry, if you do that and that's your ministry, like God speaks to you. He didn't speak to me about yours. You just you go do what Jesus said. That's awesome. Um, but do you know what I mean? Like it's always like, how do we um how do we how do we show people that the that hiddenness with Christ, that everything, all the other things, like all the fruit on the branches comes from the roots being down deep?

11:47 Um how do we do that? Because that is everything. So it's like all the hiddenness. Like I um like are you I would say, are you writing songs in your bedroom for three years before it gives you to put something on YouTube or on TikTok? I don't know. And maybe you're not supposed to do that, but I just I I um just the just the the hiddenness and and and a life of bringing joy to Jesus when nobody else is watching. Like that's what gives weight to the it's all the power behind the, I don't know, I'm just picturing a javelin. Like you can have like the fanciest, sharpest javelin, but if there's no force behind the throw, it's not gonna do the damage it was designed to do. And the force behind the throw is the weight of um life with Jesus in the secret place.

12:31 Yeah, so good. You know, uh, there's so much of what you I hear from you, Pastor Jeff Brooke. It's like it's just all out of our relationship with Christ. You know, it's what whatever it is, it's out of that. And whether it is visible or not, small, large, because there's really I don't I don't think God counts things like that. I know I was I was in LA one time and you were leading worship in a very small room, uh, and like you were dealing with chords and you know other band, and like the next week you were singing an arena, and I'm like, Brooke, is it really doesn't matter. You're and I think that is where we need to be, no matter what the room is or what our task may be that moment, it's for him, it's unto him.

13:19 And I and I've always I I thank God for that with you and of course Scott and all that you're building out with helping other worship leaders. Jeff, let me ask you this. You've had worship leaders with you, and a lot of times it can be a uh rotating door. And you how what have you done in in the partnership conversation? What have you done as a pastor to kind of keep them and foster or let them go when they need to? And how have you guarded the stage and somewhat for the vision of the church? What have you done eventually? So locally, Betsy, you know, um, Betsy is an example of the hidden place, the heart, the the spirit, you know, it's like um talent talent is one thing, and we thank God for gifts and talents, but heart and spirit for me is is the main thing.

14:07 And Betsy actually um was in a season of her life where here locally there was a lot of you know, a lot of meetings and some songs, and she had written some songs and she had some national a little bit of attention. And her and her husband just came to visit me, and they felt it was one of these crazy things. And and we were in Abilene and a phone company had a had a church in an old phone company building. That's clear we really needed some worship. I mean, we were, you know, back then playing y'all don't know who this is Dennis Jernigan tapes on Radio Shack microphones and stuff. Come on, somebody. But anyway, bring it down. Betsy and Tyron went and prayed, and they just felt like God said, you know, we're called to come and walk with you and and you be our pastor.

14:52 Well, when they said they prayed about that, I told her, You're not gonna sing for six months, I'm just gonna pastor you. And she said, That day you became my pastor. Wow, because you wanted more for me than you wanted from me. And so if you want so good. Any, if you this isn't just worship leaders, this is gifted people. If you want to have the opportunity to steward gifted people, then they can sense gifted people never trust someone that they feel like needs them. So some of this is faith, too, by the way. Yes, absolutely. And and where I am is we'll get those Dennis Jernigan tapes back out.

15:34 If no one has the right attitude, we'll just play a tape. Yeah. I'll preach the Bible, we'll sing kumbaya. Yeah. Because I'm I'm not going to just have a hired hand atmosphere that doesn't honor God. That's just me. Come on. I remember we when we were pastoring our church, Delyn and I, and we, you know, we had a couple bands that showed up and we didn't really know them and it didn't feel right. Next thing I know, man, we were like, let's shut all that down and go acapella. Yeah. And I was like, Delyn, bring out that Lord, prepare me. I'm about to preach. Um it'll work. And so, you know, hey, I want to thank you. Thank you, Brooke, for being with us today. And Jeff, thank you so much for letting us have this conversation. I think it's super important.

16:16 Hey, can we clap our hands for Pastor Jeff and for Brooke? I want to say thank you for checking out this episode of the Lead to Win podcast. I want you to know that I love and my team loves getting this kind of content into your life so it can help you lead and win at what matters most. So I'd love for you to do me a favor like, comment, especially subscribe if you would, so that we can make sure that we're able to get to you some of the things that are gonna help you lead to winning.