72: How the Provincial Housing Bills are Impacting the City with Kelowna City Planner Adam Cseke

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Welcome back to the Kelowna Real
Estate Podcast.

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I'm your mortgage broker host,
Taylor Atkinson.

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And I'm your real estate agent
host, Matt Glenn.

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How's your summer so far, Taylor?
Good, man.

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Yeah, we're just on Vancouver
Island, actually Hornby Island for

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a little bit of a break, which was
awesome.

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How about you?
you?

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I've just been zinging busy.

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I'm just like so busy right now.

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Listings, buyers, putting deals
together, deals falling apart,

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seems to be a theme this year.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, it's going, it's busy,
busy's busy busy yeah yeah it's

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been pretty steady for me and busy
busy yeah yeah it's been pretty

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steady for me and then the last
couple weeks has seemed to really

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pick up I don't think it has
anything to do with the recent

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rate announcement by Bank of
Canada where we saw 0.25% decrease

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second consecutive time yeah as
expected as expected which is

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awesome but as expected as
expected which is awesome but yeah

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I don't think I was kind of hoping
for a bigger increase.

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I knew it was a long shot, but I
was like, drop it a half a point.

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Yeah, I think it'll be slow and
steady over the next 12 months,

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but they're moving in the right
direction.

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Yeah.

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A few points to talk on that.

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The previous decrease that they
made key indicator was that we

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didn't see our Canadian dollar
drop against the US dollar, which

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means as a whole, our economy is
fairly stable.

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We don't want to see any of our
Bank of Canada announcements

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really reflect a huge change in
the strength of our dollar.

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So it actually increased by 0.03%
on that week.

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That's a good sign, something to
watch for.

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If that continues, then we still
have room to kind of make those

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rate cuts.

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Also something interesting I

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thought is, you know, obviously
the Bank of Canada is mandated to

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control inflation to what they say
is a comfortable level.

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The funny thing is like 12 months
ago, we were always beating the

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drum saying, this is crazy.

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You know, they're increasing the

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interest rate to control
inflation.

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However, that's just driving
inflation because it drives the

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cost of housing up.

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Now it's actually really working

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to our advantage because when they
start to decrease rates, you know,

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the scarcity is, oh, well,
inflation is going to get out of

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control again.

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But in actuality, like we're

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decreasing the cost of housing,
you know, slightly with these rate

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decreases.

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So we should actually also control

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inflation downwards as well.

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So it's kind of a funny way they

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do their CPI there.

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Those are kind of two takeaways I

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saw from that.

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Okay, Taylor, as a mortgage

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Taylor, as a mortgage broker, so
you have people that are going for

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variable or a fixed, like fixed
right now or lower interest rate,

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right?
So what would you recommend?

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Like we expect more rates coming
down.

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So the favorable rate will come
down, but what are you advising

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people to do right now?
Yeah.

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Great question.

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So I just had a client call this

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morning.

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Everyone's different in terms of

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it's insured, insurable,
uninsured, 25 year AM, 30 year AM

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over a million rental, et cetera,
et cetera.

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But for this specific client
situation, since the loan, the

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value is strong, it's owner
occupied, it's less than a

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million.

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We're seeing a five-year fixed at

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4.79, a four-year fixed at 4.84, a
three-year fixed at 4.99 and a

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five-year variable.

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So discount on prime is at 5.75.

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Wow.

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Only three quarters of a point

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higher.

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Yeah.

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So again, it really changes for
your specific situation, but going

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back to when we spoke to Brendan
Augmentson a couple of months

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back, his projection for the
five-year fixed at the end of

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three years.

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So in three years from now was

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4.75.

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So we're basically like right

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where we are, you know, in that
five-year fixed where he's

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projecting it to be in three
years.

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So I've never recommended a
five-year until kind of recently.

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Like, hey, if you want the
stability, maybe you're a

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first-time home buyer, maybe
you're concerned about a budget,

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that might not be a bad option.

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The only real risk is the interest

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rate differential.

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If you do break it, the penalty is

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going to be higher if rates do
decrease.

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But with the variable, it's
finally starting to come back into

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play as like, hey, it might not be
a bad product for the right

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individual.

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So for this instance, we kind of

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made a rough calculation.

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They would probably lose money in

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the first year.

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So it would cost them about $1,700

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over the first 12 months.

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And then they would recoup that in

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the second and third year.

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And then in the fourth and the

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fifth year, pending if bank cuts
continue, they'd actually come out

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net positive about $1,600 if they
went variable over the five-year

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fix.

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Now, it's kind of negligible at

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that point.

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The thing I want to communicate is

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variables finally starting to come
back in where, okay, if the trend

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continues with rate drops, it's
not a bad option, especially if

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you want flexibility of refining
or selling in the future.

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So yeah, it's kind of nice.

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It's more of an even playing

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field.

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Interesting.

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Good advice, Taylor.

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I asked the right guy.

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Thanks.

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And to go on to the fixed side

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where the bond market is
supporting those rates, we

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actually saw the bond market
increase a few weeks ago, and that

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was due to the presidential debate
in the States between Biden and

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Trump.

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Biden absolutely dropped the ball,

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came off incredibly weak.

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And because of that, it looks like

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the economy is going to be
stronger in terms of Trump's

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policies down there, where they're
more concerned about inflation.

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So that's why our bond market went
up.

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Now it has kind of come back down
the last couple of weeks, but

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that's something- Yeah, what about
Kamala?

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Does she help bring it down again?
I don't something- Yeah, what

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about Kamala?
Does she help bring it down don't

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know.

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I doubt it.

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It's all pretty fresh there, but
those are kind of the interesting

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things to watch in terms of where
our dollar is, how strong it is,

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how the bond market is, what's
going on in the presidential

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election in the future in the
States.

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But as of now, we're on the right
track for rate cuts.

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Yeah, Bank of Canada, now we've
seen two consecutive.

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Will we see a third?
It's kind of up in the air

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depending on what inflation and
unemployment and GDP is going to

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go like.

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But I would say we'll probably see

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another one before the end of the
year.

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What about you?
I've been hearing that we're

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getting two been hearing that
we're getting two more by the end

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of the year.

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There's three more announcements,

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right?
Yeah.

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We got three more announcements
before the end of the year.

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September 4th, October 23rd and
December 11th.

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Yeah.

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I want to be optimistic too and

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say for sure we're getting two
more.

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I mean, we should.

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That's what I've been hearing.

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I've been hearing the I've been
hearing the consensus is we're

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getting two more.

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They're just not not sure which

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two.

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I'm going to go longer term and

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say we'll get a 0.75% decrease
cumulatively by this time next

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year.

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Again, that may be more

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conservative.

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I think we should see a full 1%

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cut in the next 12 months.

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From now?

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So like three and a half instead
of four and a half?

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Yeah.

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I think that's kind of where the

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happy place is.

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If they continue this trend and

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things are stable, you know,
inflation's controlled, our dollar

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doesn't get stronger or weaker.

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There's no reason not to, but

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yeah, time will tell, I guess.

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Yeah.

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We're just here for the just here
for the ride.

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Buckle up, bro.

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We're We're here.

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Well, that kind of ties into like
the big part of the interest rate,

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you know, prime rate is mostly due
to either if you're on a variable

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line of credit or for a lot of
developers building.

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So today we brought back on, you
know, one of my favorite guests,

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Adam Cheka from City of Kelowna.

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Awesome guy.

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You know, I ran into him at our
kids doing gymnastics and we're

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like, man, we got to have you back
on.

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So we kind of spoke to him in
depth.

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It's been a bit of a stagnant last
few months for development

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permits.

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And so it seems like things are

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finally catching I up.

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thought this would happen six or

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seven months ago, but he said it's
been more recent where they just

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haven't seen so many developers,
you know, start to actually go

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through with their projects or
apply for them.

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It seems like that high interest
rate environment kind of slowed

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down the market, which, I mean,
this is kind of your wheelhouse.

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You're thinking potentially that's
going to add less supply, which...

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Very much.

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Very much.

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We've been hearing a lot of
developments either get paused or

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shelved completely, which is just
like our population hasn't stopped

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growing.

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So we're going to continue to grow

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less housing, supply and demand.

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Prices are going up.

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It's just a matter of when.

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We're going to have probably

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another boom in 2026.

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So if the numbers work for you

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right now, I'd try and get in the
market now.

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In Kelowna, we are rarely ever in
a buyer's market.

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And when we do, we hit it for
short periods of time, like one,

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two months.

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Now we've been in it for a while

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while and it's not going to last
forever.

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Like this is a time for a buyer to
finally take advantage of it.

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You know, they can be in the
driver's seat, which never happens

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in Kelowna.

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So it's kind of nice.

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Like this is a good time to get in
there.

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Yeah.

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And going back to the rate

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conversation, these are generally
the rates we're going to see for

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the next three years.

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So if you're waiting for the rates

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to go down on the fixed side, it's
very unlikely.

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And if you really want the
variable product, well, you know,

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even if you get a property under
contract now and close in a couple

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of months, you could potentially
see that variable come down within

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the first six months of your
purchase.

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So if you're sitting on the
sidelines because of rates, just

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go for it.

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Now's the time.

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I agree.

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100%.

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Well, we'll let you get to the
show with Adam Cheka.

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Yeah.

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Really appreciated his time.

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City of Kelowna.

253
00:08:14,715 --> 00:08:15,640
Yeah, awesome guy.

254
00:08:15,660 --> 00:08:16,577
And his daughter is awesome at
gymnastics.

255
00:08:16,645 --> 00:08:17,937
So shout out to Francie.

256
00:08:17,937 --> 00:08:18,358
All right.

257
00:08:18,358 --> 00:08:20,230
And then this episode, like every
episode, is brought to you by

258
00:08:20,230 --> 00:08:21,220
Century 21 Assurance Realty.

259
00:08:21,220 --> 00:08:22,585
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260
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261
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262
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263
00:08:24,454 --> 00:08:25,826
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264
00:08:25,826 --> 00:08:26,545
You will too.

265
00:08:26,445 --> 00:08:27,883
As an agent looking for a new

266
00:08:27,883 --> 00:08:31,057
brokerage or your buyer or seller
looking for an agent looking for a

267
00:08:31,057 --> 00:08:33,705
new brokerage or your buyer or
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268
00:08:33,705 --> 00:08:36,746
century 21 insurance realty is uh
the best right on enjoy the show

269
00:08:36,846 --> 00:08:39,496
guys adam chuck uh welcome back to
the show two-time returning guest

270
00:08:39,496 --> 00:08:41,695
fan on enjoy the show two-time
returning guest fan favorite bad

271
00:08:41,794 --> 00:08:44,927
favorite well thanks for having me
bad favorite well thanks for

272
00:08:44,827 --> 00:08:48,744
having me actually also host
favorite yeah i feel like i'm

273
00:08:48,744 --> 00:08:51,782
getting buttered up here yeah
brace yourself for what's coming

274
00:08:51,882 --> 00:08:55,512
because nothing but hardballs on
this pod there you go yeah you go

275
00:08:55,512 --> 00:09:00,180
yeah i ran into you a few times at
gymnastics not our gymnastics but

276
00:09:00,460 --> 00:09:03,707
our kids so spider monkeys yeah we
were talking shop and figured we

277
00:09:03,707 --> 00:09:05,018
gotta get you back on the podcast
so yeah toddler gymnastics is like

278
00:09:04,987 --> 00:09:05,612
hurting cats a little toddler
gymnastics is like hurting cats a

279
00:09:05,612 --> 00:09:06,240
little bit.

280
00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:07,573
Somebody's always melting down.

281
00:09:07,573 --> 00:09:08,279
Oh, man.

282
00:09:08,279 --> 00:09:08,985
Yeah.

283
00:09:08,985 --> 00:09:09,456
Yeah.

284
00:09:09,456 --> 00:09:10,868
I mean, your daughter is pretty

285
00:09:10,868 --> 00:09:11,260
awesome.

286
00:09:11,260 --> 00:09:13,536
My son's an animal out there.

287
00:09:13,536 --> 00:09:10,868
Yeah, well, first question we like
to ask other than gymnastics,

288
00:09:10,868 --> 00:09:19,290
what's your perfect Friday look
like, you know, productivity work

289
00:09:19,290 --> 00:09:21,896
wise, and then leading into the
weekend?

290
00:09:19,020 --> 00:09:22,615
What does it look like for you?
for you?

291
00:09:22,615 --> 00:09:26,120
Well, it's perfect with the
toddler would be a successful

292
00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:28,148
daycare drop-off, you know, not
massive meltdowns.

293
00:09:28,148 --> 00:09:29,130
Yesterday was horrible.

294
00:09:29,130 --> 00:09:31,224
It was like the worst drop-off

295
00:09:31,224 --> 00:09:31,420
ever.

296
00:09:31,420 --> 00:09:32,201
It was like fighting me and

297
00:09:32,201 --> 00:09:33,685
punching and then like hitting the
daycare worker.

298
00:09:33,685 --> 00:09:34,076
Yeah.

299
00:09:34,076 --> 00:09:34,232
Yeah.

300
00:09:34,232 --> 00:09:38,684
So having a calm drop-off is like
the perfect recipe to a start of

301
00:09:38,684 --> 00:09:39,394
the day.

302
00:09:39,394 --> 00:09:40,685
Obviously coffee, then get some

303
00:09:40,685 --> 00:09:41,459
exercise, maybe not lunch.

304
00:09:41,459 --> 00:09:44,029
And that leads to like maybe a

305
00:09:44,029 --> 00:09:44,840
productive afternoon.

306
00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:44,029
And then wind down with wine.

307
00:09:44,029 --> 00:09:48,035
And that would be nice at the end
of the day.

308
00:09:48,035 --> 00:09:49,508
So yeah, that sounds wonderful.

309
00:09:49,408 --> 00:09:52,474
I guess as long as it gets off to

310
00:09:52,474 --> 00:09:53,556
the right start.

311
00:09:53,556 --> 00:09:55,139
Yeah, that sounds very familiar.

312
00:09:55,139 --> 00:09:57,006
Today's daycare was a doozy for
sure.

313
00:09:57,006 --> 00:09:58,994
It was a doozy?
It was a doozy?

314
00:09:58,894 --> 00:09:59,560
Yeah.

315
00:09:59,560 --> 00:10:00,212
It's so cyclical.

316
00:10:00,212 --> 00:10:01,124
It'd be hidden best.

317
00:10:01,124 --> 00:10:01,529
Yeah.

318
00:10:01,529 --> 00:10:03,251
I mean, kind of like city planning
applications, you know, we'll dive

319
00:10:03,251 --> 00:10:03,808
into that.

320
00:10:03,808 --> 00:10:05,472
Well, usually Well, usually by the

321
00:10:05,472 --> 00:10:07,906
end of the week, it's better.

322
00:10:07,906 --> 00:10:10,744
So it goes in waves.

323
00:10:10,744 --> 00:10:10,900
Yeah.

324
00:10:10,900 --> 00:10:11,108
Yeah.

325
00:10:11,108 --> 00:10:11,264
Okay.

326
00:10:11,264 --> 00:10:12,753
Well, let's talk about your

327
00:10:12,753 --> 00:10:14,483
position with the city a little
bit.

328
00:10:14,483 --> 00:10:19,780
Can you give us kind of a brief
outline of, yeah, over the last

329
00:10:19,780 --> 00:10:21,611
couple of years, I guess, since we
originally spoke, what's been

330
00:10:21,611 --> 00:10:22,575
going on?
on?

331
00:10:22,575 --> 00:10:22,960
Yes.

332
00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:24,580
I'm one of the senior planners

333
00:10:24,580 --> 00:10:26,103
here at the city of Kelowna.

334
00:10:26,086 --> 00:10:28,384
The last time we spoke, I rewrote

335
00:10:28,384 --> 00:10:30,816
the whole zoning bylaw and then
came onto the podcast and kind of

336
00:10:30,816 --> 00:10:32,650
explained and talked about some
things that happened there.

337
00:10:32,643 --> 00:10:34,022
So that was in September of 2022,
I think that was.

338
00:10:34,022 --> 00:10:38,327
And then we spoke a month or two
later.

339
00:10:38,327 --> 00:10:40,560
Most recently in the fall, there
was Bill 44, 46 and 47 from the

340
00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:41,680
provincial government.

341
00:10:41,635 --> 00:10:42,484
There's the short term rental.

342
00:10:42,484 --> 00:10:45,320
There was the small scale
multi-unit housing legislation and

343
00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,246
the transit oriented areas
legislation.

344
00:10:47,146 --> 00:10:49,123
So all the housing bills the
provincial government are doing.

345
00:10:49,123 --> 00:10:50,876
And then my boss asked me to stick
handle implementing all that.

346
00:10:50,876 --> 00:10:53,568
And we implemented all the zoning
regs.

347
00:10:53,568 --> 00:10:55,346
It was adopted end of March.

348
00:10:55,346 --> 00:10:56,680
And then the OCP amendments, my

349
00:10:56,680 --> 00:10:57,881
colleagues were done kind of by
May, June.

350
00:10:57,981 --> 00:11:00,140
And so now we've just wrapped up,
you know, the first quarter slash

351
00:11:00,140 --> 00:11:02,196
half of this year, implementing
all the housing legislation bills.

352
00:11:02,196 --> 00:11:02,447
legislation bills.

353
00:11:02,447 --> 00:11:03,889
From the province, they gave every

354
00:11:03,889 --> 00:11:05,989
municipality essentially a
deadline to implement these bills.

355
00:11:06,089 --> 00:11:06,556
Yeah.

356
00:11:06,456 --> 00:11:08,789
And that was the end of June.

357
00:11:08,789 --> 00:11:10,671
So just like a week ago.

358
00:11:10,671 --> 00:11:12,326
So yeah, I've heard like Kelowna

359
00:11:12,326 --> 00:11:14,024
was kind of leading this.

360
00:11:13,924 --> 00:11:15,783
So you guys did a really good job

361
00:11:15,783 --> 00:11:16,286
proactively.

362
00:11:16,286 --> 00:11:17,794
But I've heard other

363
00:11:17,794 --> 00:11:22,420
municipalities, you know, may have
not been as quick as you guys are

364
00:11:22,540 --> 00:11:22,862
efficient.

365
00:11:22,862 --> 00:11:23,606
So what happens?

366
00:11:23,506 --> 00:11:26,277
What's the repercussion if you
didn't meet those deadlines?

367
00:11:26,277 --> 00:11:27,807
Well, there is threats in the
legislation.

368
00:11:27,807 --> 00:11:30,300
Let's see if the provincial
government follows through.

369
00:11:30,300 --> 00:11:32,553
But the ultimate response is that,
you know, the provincial

370
00:11:32,553 --> 00:11:35,766
government could assign somebody
to take over the duties of council

371
00:11:35,766 --> 00:11:37,407
and do it for them.

372
00:11:37,407 --> 00:11:38,391
Wow.

373
00:11:38,391 --> 00:11:42,535
So there might be also funding or
there might be some more keratin

374
00:11:42,535 --> 00:11:45,160
sticks, how the ministry would
work with those other

375
00:11:45,300 --> 00:11:48,284
municipalities that like didn't
make the deadline or if they just

376
00:11:48,284 --> 00:11:50,878
needed an extra few weeks or a
month or something.

377
00:11:50,878 --> 00:11:55,637
So, I mean, I think they were
hoping to have minimal conflicts I

378
00:11:55,637 --> 00:11:55,940
minimal conflicts with
municipalities.

379
00:11:56,380 --> 00:11:59,767
So what was the hardest part?
Like what part of all

380
00:11:59,767 --> 00:11:59,873
municipalities.

381
00:11:59,873 --> 00:12:02,576
So what was the hardest part?

382
00:12:02,576 --> 00:12:05,488
Like what part of all those zoning
changes was the hardest for you?

383
00:12:05,588 --> 00:12:09,214
Well, for for us, I would say we
were doing a lot of this stuff

384
00:12:09,214 --> 00:12:09,278
anyways.

385
00:12:09,278 --> 00:12:11,595
We had a core area infill housing

386
00:12:11,595 --> 00:12:13,766
group that was happening in 2023.

387
00:12:13,766 --> 00:12:15,793
And so we were well on our way to

388
00:12:15,693 --> 00:12:17,597
do a lot of this work anyways.

389
00:12:17,597 --> 00:12:19,584
Some of the things that we weren't

390
00:12:19,584 --> 00:12:22,160
doing was probably the infill
housing in the suburbs, like on

391
00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,512
the hillsides, as well as some of
the transit exchanges and the

392
00:12:25,412 --> 00:12:28,493
parking rules that were done by
the provincial governments we

393
00:12:28,493 --> 00:12:30,523
likely would not have implemented.

394
00:12:30,523 --> 00:12:32,263
So I would say approximately about

395
00:12:32,263 --> 00:12:34,936
80% or so we were already doing.

396
00:12:34,936 --> 00:12:36,731
And then there was a few things we

397
00:12:36,731 --> 00:12:39,997
had to add on you know because of
provincial mandates suburban info

398
00:12:39,997 --> 00:12:42,041
mandates suburban info like how
does that work in communities that

399
00:12:42,041 --> 00:12:44,939
are on septic are they still
allowed to infill like how does

400
00:12:44,939 --> 00:12:49,289
that work well so we did it so
that all of our suburban areas

401
00:12:49,289 --> 00:12:49,601
have sewer work well so we did it
so that all of our suburban areas

402
00:12:49,601 --> 00:12:52,096
have sewer so in suburban areas
you can go up to four units okay

403
00:12:52,096 --> 00:12:54,708
you have to be on sewer the small
scale multi-unit housing in the

404
00:12:54,708 --> 00:12:56,238
legislation didn't apply
essentially to properties with

405
00:12:56,338 --> 00:12:59,638
septic so it's mostly focused on
areas with services and within a

406
00:12:59,638 --> 00:13:01,906
you know urban containment
boundary but for Kelowna for us

407
00:13:01,906 --> 00:13:04,125
that's the permanent growth
boundary yeah so like for us it

408
00:13:04,025 --> 00:13:06,258
would be for example like the
ponds Black Mountain, Christian

409
00:13:06,258 --> 00:13:09,112
Mountain, Tower Ranch, Wilda areas
like that yeah interesting i mean

410
00:13:09,212 --> 00:13:11,966
obviously this is interesting i
mean obviously this is like brand

411
00:13:11,966 --> 00:13:14,572
new but do you guys have
projections are they provided

412
00:13:14,572 --> 00:13:19,927
eventually or do you guys had to
order a third party report from

413
00:13:19,927 --> 00:13:23,558
the city to say you know because
of bill 44 we are now projecting

414
00:13:23,558 --> 00:13:26,660
you know x more units being built
over the next five years like do

415
00:13:26,660 --> 00:13:28,488
we have those numbers well
somewhat like so for the suburban

416
00:13:28,488 --> 00:13:31,478
areas, somewhat like so for the
suburban areas, let's just say

417
00:13:31,478 --> 00:13:34,153
we've pre-zoned now 13,400 lots to
be allowed to have four units.

418
00:13:34,153 --> 00:13:33,379
And then within the core area,
there was 11,500 lots pre-zoned to

419
00:13:33,379 --> 00:13:34,435
allow for up to six units.

420
00:13:34,435 --> 00:13:37,171
They may not be able to do six

421
00:13:37,171 --> 00:13:38,891
units depending on lot size.

422
00:13:38,891 --> 00:13:40,438
You still have to do parking.

423
00:13:40,438 --> 00:13:43,715
So there's a lot of factors that
go into like practically whether

424
00:13:43,715 --> 00:13:45,920
you can achieve that unit count.

425
00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,533
The City of Kelowna was awarded a

426
00:13:48,533 --> 00:13:51,336
housing accelerator fund for the
federal government to hit certain

427
00:13:51,336 --> 00:13:51,727
residential targets.

428
00:13:51,727 --> 00:13:53,402
And so there is projections.

429
00:13:53,402 --> 00:13:56,567
The city just did a housing needs
assessment probably at the end of

430
00:13:56,567 --> 00:13:56,675
2023.

431
00:13:56,675 --> 00:13:57,926
And then with this legislation, we

432
00:13:57,926 --> 00:14:02,197
are kind of mandated to redo that
just like six months later.

433
00:14:02,197 --> 00:14:04,701
So there are targets and we are
somewhat on our way for the

434
00:14:04,701 --> 00:14:05,156
five-year targets.

435
00:14:05,156 --> 00:14:06,643
There's about 2,800 units that we

436
00:14:06,643 --> 00:14:10,414
need to hit for missing middle,
4,200 units for other multi-unit

437
00:14:10,414 --> 00:14:11,918
housing, and then 420 affordable
housing units.

438
00:14:11,918 --> 00:14:13,745
So this is over five years.

439
00:14:13,745 --> 00:14:15,802
We kind of just have our brand new

440
00:14:15,802 --> 00:14:17,244
Q1 stats for 2024.

441
00:14:17,244 --> 00:14:18,663
So it's like really fresh.

442
00:14:18,663 --> 00:14:19,559
It's only Q1.

443
00:14:19,559 --> 00:14:21,425
So in comparing those to other Q1s

444
00:14:21,425 --> 00:14:23,641
over the previous years, they are
down.

445
00:14:23,641 --> 00:14:24,662
Volumes are down.

446
00:14:24,662 --> 00:14:23,641
Value is way down.

447
00:14:23,641 --> 00:14:33,996
Value is like from major huge
projects versus, let's say, like

448
00:14:33,996 --> 00:14:35,591
the total number of permits, which
might be like renovations or

449
00:14:35,591 --> 00:14:36,668
suites or carousels or things like
that.

450
00:14:36,667 --> 00:14:37,226
But still early.

451
00:14:37,186 --> 00:14:37,943
It's only one quarter.

452
00:14:37,943 --> 00:14:39,535
So we'll get more data to see
whether, you know, we're on track

453
00:14:39,535 --> 00:14:40,562
to meeting those targets.

454
00:14:40,662 --> 00:14:41,481
You know, obviously, pre-zoning

455
00:14:41,481 --> 00:14:42,670
should help facilitate, you know,
easier targets.

456
00:14:42,670 --> 00:14:43,736
But that's just one thing.

457
00:14:43,736 --> 00:14:46,122
like the next thing the city is

458
00:14:46,122 --> 00:14:49,060
just working on right now that
we're hoping to implement or that

459
00:14:49,060 --> 00:14:52,961
is implemented like as of right
now is a fast track program where

460
00:14:52,961 --> 00:14:55,597
there's a few winning designs
where a homeowner could pick from

461
00:14:55,597 --> 00:15:00,233
like a pre-selected set of plans
you know up to four or five or six

462
00:15:00,233 --> 00:15:02,422
units build that on their site
essentially straight to building

463
00:15:02,422 --> 00:15:07,800
permit i did see a post about that
what is it it's like if you pick

464
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:13,505
one of those within 10 days you
get i did see a post about that

465
00:15:13,605 --> 00:15:21,635
what is it it's like if you pick
one of those within 10 days you

466
00:15:21,635 --> 00:15:24,398
get granted a building permit
that's right that's crazy yeah

467
00:15:24,398 --> 00:15:27,161
that's right that's crazy yeah
yeah and there's certain criteria

468
00:15:27,161 --> 00:15:31,996
so like the main factor is lot
width and if i remember right i

469
00:15:31,996 --> 00:15:36,280
think it's an 18 meter wide lot
width and a certain lot depth but

470
00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,508
then doesn't apply to corner lots
because it has a different

471
00:15:39,408 --> 00:15:42,499
situation so there's a few factors
where you know it doesn't apply to

472
00:15:42,499 --> 00:15:47,760
but if your property is in one of
them and a lot of them are in like

473
00:15:47,940 --> 00:15:51,028
the lot sizes that meet it are in
either the Glenmore area or the

474
00:15:51,028 --> 00:15:55,764
South Rutland area, like kind of
north of Springfield, there's a

475
00:15:55,864 --> 00:15:58,720
lot of larger lots there.

476
00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:05,260
It's another tool and another way

477
00:16:05,219 --> 00:16:06,057
to help try to like accelerate
housing.

478
00:16:06,057 --> 00:16:07,492
So that's not necessarily
potentially just like a developer

479
00:16:07,492 --> 00:16:09,406
or investor buying a property and
turning it into, you know, four or

480
00:16:09,406 --> 00:16:10,722
five or sixplexes that homeowners
could do it too.

481
00:16:10,722 --> 00:16:11,655
could do it too.

482
00:16:11,655 --> 00:16:14,096
So how does a homeowner find out

483
00:16:14,096 --> 00:16:15,285
if their property would qualify
for this?

484
00:16:15,285 --> 00:16:16,200
Yeah, there is a city website.

485
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:17,430
Like it's still just being like

486
00:16:17,426 --> 00:16:20,364
finalized and there's going to be
a new AI chatbot that's going to

487
00:16:20,364 --> 00:16:20,605
go.

488
00:16:20,605 --> 00:16:21,871
It's going to like help you like,

489
00:16:21,871 --> 00:16:19,822
is my property in the area?
And it'll say yes or no. You just

490
00:16:19,822 --> 00:16:20,726
give it your address.

491
00:16:20,726 --> 00:16:20,846
Yeah.

492
00:16:20,846 --> 00:16:23,197
There's like a dozen or so
criteria, but like lot width and,

493
00:16:23,197 --> 00:16:26,771
you know, servicing, it will
figure out all that for you once

494
00:16:25,001 --> 00:16:28,882
you put your address in, whether,
you know, your property meets this

495
00:16:28,882 --> 00:16:29,154
criteria.

496
00:16:29,154 --> 00:16:31,063
Yeah, I think I saw City of Vernon

497
00:16:31,063 --> 00:16:33,317
just came out with something
similar, which is pretty cool.

498
00:16:33,317 --> 00:16:35,435
Yeah, that would really help
homeowners and obviously potential

499
00:16:35,435 --> 00:16:36,303
developer buyers too.

500
00:16:36,303 --> 00:16:37,869
But can I ask one thing?

501
00:16:37,869 --> 00:16:40,951
can I ask one thing?
So you said a couple minutes ago,

502
00:16:40,951 --> 00:16:43,500
you're talking about the need of
certain classes of houses.

503
00:16:43,500 --> 00:16:44,878
And one of them, I think it was
middle?

504
00:16:44,878 --> 00:16:45,291
Missing middle.

505
00:16:45,291 --> 00:16:45,636
Missing middle?

506
00:16:45,636 --> 00:16:45,911
Yeah.

507
00:16:45,911 --> 00:16:47,220
What's the definition of that?

508
00:16:47,220 --> 00:16:48,322
Like cost, single family home.

509
00:16:48,322 --> 00:16:49,287
What is that?

510
00:16:49,287 --> 00:16:50,801
Well, there's two different
definitions.

511
00:16:50,701 --> 00:16:53,906
The one for the five-year target,
the city uses CMHC's definition,

512
00:16:53,906 --> 00:16:57,226
which is duplexes, triplexes, row
housing, townhouses, all the way

513
00:16:57,226 --> 00:16:58,316
up to small scale apartments.

514
00:16:58,316 --> 00:17:00,422
So essentially four stories or

515
00:17:00,422 --> 00:17:01,221
less.

516
00:17:01,221 --> 00:17:03,237
And then the other multi-unit is

517
00:17:03,237 --> 00:17:05,771
essentially five or six story
apartment buildings or larger.

518
00:17:05,672 --> 00:17:08,837
The city of Kelowna uses the term
missing middle to refer more to

519
00:17:08,837 --> 00:17:08,593
ground-oriented housing.

520
00:17:08,593 --> 00:17:09,786
So more like duplexes to

521
00:17:09,786 --> 00:17:09,986
townhouses.

522
00:17:09,983 --> 00:17:11,163
So there's a little bit of

523
00:17:11,163 --> 00:17:13,147
definition but that's difference,
what we're talking about.

524
00:17:13,136 --> 00:17:14,185
that's difference, what we're
talking about.

525
00:17:14,185 --> 00:17:17,752
And is there any driving force to
build more single family Okay.

526
00:17:17,752 --> 00:17:19,107
homes?
you know, Like, densification is

527
00:17:19,107 --> 00:17:21,771
one thing, but just like not
multi-units, you not, know, four

528
00:17:21,672 --> 00:17:23,839
units at a time kind of thing
infilled, but just like, we Hey,

529
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,880
also need to build a certain
amount of single family homes.

530
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:28,840
Like, do you have the data on
that?

531
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,521
Or are we not even focused
provincially municipality at that

532
00:17:31,521 --> 00:17:32,623
level?
We're just about putting units on

533
00:17:32,623 --> 00:17:32,953
the market.

534
00:17:32,927 --> 00:17:34,353
The total targets like would

535
00:17:34,253 --> 00:17:36,700
include single family The total
targets like would include single

536
00:17:36,700 --> 00:17:37,120
family too.

537
00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:38,860
So when it says missing middle, it

538
00:17:38,860 --> 00:17:41,523
would count all housing targets
within the permanent growth

539
00:17:41,502 --> 00:17:44,776
boundary or within the urban
containment boundary for like

540
00:17:44,776 --> 00:17:45,499
housing targets purpose.

541
00:17:45,499 --> 00:17:45,549
But the city does have its

542
00:17:45,542 --> 00:17:47,494
official community plan that does
have targets by ourselves that

543
00:17:47,594 --> 00:17:50,302
want to have like a split between
suburban and urban developments.

544
00:17:50,302 --> 00:17:53,520
And our stats since that OCP has
been done, it's been two years

545
00:17:54,020 --> 00:17:57,564
now, is like really quite aligned
where before the OCP, it was, I

546
00:17:57,564 --> 00:18:01,731
think, a closer to 50-50 split
between single family and, you

547
00:18:01,731 --> 00:18:02,384
know, infiller multis.

548
00:18:02,384 --> 00:18:04,780
And it's definitely more like a

549
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,549
70-30 now in that range.

550
00:18:07,449 --> 00:18:09,210
And it varies, obviously, you

551
00:18:09,210 --> 00:18:11,097
know, quarter to quarter and year
to year.

552
00:18:11,097 --> 00:18:14,920
But we've definitely over the last
two years have seen much more

553
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,568
focus on the core area for
development than the suburbs.

554
00:18:18,468 --> 00:18:21,462
I mean, a lot of our existing
suburbs are just filling out their

555
00:18:21,462 --> 00:18:25,080
existing developments like that
they've had for the last decades.

556
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:28,310
The city hasn't pursued any new
suburban neighborhoods.

557
00:18:28,259 --> 00:18:28,480
At council yesterday, there was a
big discussion about expanding

558
00:18:28,323 --> 00:18:35,520
McKinley and council turned it
down.

559
00:18:35,476 --> 00:18:35,600
Council turned it down.

560
00:18:35,509 --> 00:18:35,600
Nice.

561
00:18:35,518 --> 00:18:35,568
Yes.

562
00:18:35,522 --> 00:18:35,600
Really?

563
00:18:35,532 --> 00:18:35,600
Interesting.

564
00:18:35,540 --> 00:18:35,600
Can we comment why they turned it

565
00:18:40,700 --> 00:18:41,666
down?
I think one of the main reasons

566
00:18:41,565 --> 00:18:42,728
was, like we said, it was just too
early to expand.

567
00:18:42,627 --> 00:18:43,814
I think the McKinley group still
has, you know, 400 or so more

568
00:18:43,813 --> 00:18:45,459
units left that they can build out
with their existing areas.

569
00:18:45,459 --> 00:18:47,055
And that the current OCP is only a
couple years old.

570
00:18:47,055 --> 00:18:50,352
And the council essentially wanted
to keep forward with, you know,

571
00:18:50,352 --> 00:18:51,853
currently infilling more of the
core area.

572
00:18:51,853 --> 00:18:53,159
And then we're doing a OCP review
in 2025 anyways, and there's going

573
00:18:53,159 --> 00:18:56,778
to be a general North end sector
plan between 2025 and 2027.

574
00:18:56,778 --> 00:19:01,050
So they said that was a better
time to reflect the need for maybe

575
00:19:01,050 --> 00:19:02,948
more suburban neighborhoods at
that time.

576
00:19:02,948 --> 00:19:07,135
But so they said for now, they
were kind of interested in

577
00:19:07,135 --> 00:19:08,252
planning out more suburban
neighborhoods.

578
00:19:08,252 --> 00:19:08,740
neighborhoods.

579
00:19:08,740 --> 00:19:10,291
What's going on with North

580
00:19:10,291 --> 00:19:14,103
Clifton, North Clifton Estates?
Do you know anything about that?

581
00:19:14,003 --> 00:19:14,226
Yep.

582
00:19:14,226 --> 00:19:15,864
I mean, the developer there, I

583
00:19:15,864 --> 00:19:18,717
think, is just planning out, you
know, their regular single family

584
00:19:18,717 --> 00:19:20,982
dwelling that they've had for
quite some time.

585
00:19:21,082 --> 00:19:21,343
So, yeah.

586
00:19:21,443 --> 00:19:23,651
Yeah, I guess it makes me think

587
00:19:23,651 --> 00:19:27,980
like there's so much focus on, you
know, smaller housing needs, which

588
00:19:27,980 --> 00:19:28,701
is totally realistic.

589
00:19:28,701 --> 00:19:30,000
Obviously, we're trying to provide

590
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,318
affordable housing and that's the
easiest one to go after.

591
00:19:33,318 --> 00:19:35,699
Is this just not going to drive
up?

592
00:19:35,699 --> 00:19:38,657
I mean, this isn't a direct
question at you for economics, but

593
00:19:38,657 --> 00:19:42,192
one would just think a single
family house is just going to gain

594
00:19:42,192 --> 00:19:45,654
much more value if the supply is
not being built.

595
00:19:45,654 --> 00:19:51,217
just going to gain much more value
if the supply is not being built.

596
00:19:51,217 --> 00:19:51,519
Right.

597
00:19:51,519 --> 00:19:54,597
So I don't know.

598
00:19:54,597 --> 00:19:56,301
I'm just like speaking out loud
here.

599
00:19:56,301 --> 00:20:02,000
If someone is wanting to buy a
house and kind of hedge their bets

600
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:08,233
on what's going to appreciate in
value, maybe a condo won't be in a

601
00:20:08,233 --> 00:20:09,465
single family house will be.

602
00:20:09,465 --> 00:20:10,697
I would say potentially.

603
00:20:10,797 --> 00:20:13,018
I mean, looking at our housing
projections and our efficient

604
00:20:13,018 --> 00:20:15,440
community plan, like with the
amount of single family units that

605
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,500
have been built per year versus
the total capacity within the

606
00:20:17,500 --> 00:20:20,205
existing like neighborhoods, like
Wilden, Christian Mountain, Black

607
00:20:20,205 --> 00:20:22,534
Mountain, Tower Ranch, Ponds,
McKinley, like the build out of

608
00:20:22,534 --> 00:20:26,082
all those neighborhoods is like
well within like before 2030,

609
00:20:25,982 --> 00:20:28,633
before we really start seeing any
sort of pressure.

610
00:20:28,633 --> 00:20:31,485
Right now, sure, there's no new
planning of single familyfamily

611
00:20:31,385 --> 00:20:34,259
neighborhoods but there's not
actually a deficit of lots to

612
00:20:34,259 --> 00:20:38,302
build on so that might be a future
problem and future council said

613
00:20:38,302 --> 00:20:43,094
that would be you know in a few
years to come then we could start

614
00:20:42,994 --> 00:20:45,323
potentially think about if that
actually comes about yeah i know

615
00:20:45,323 --> 00:20:49,884
that's a good point like even up
on like boucherie what is it

616
00:20:49,876 --> 00:20:52,780
vintage drive or something like
there are a ton of just vacant

617
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:54,808
lots ready to be built on, you
know?

618
00:20:54,908 --> 00:20:58,420
So until I guess the cost to build
goes down, maybe that drives the

619
00:20:58,398 --> 00:20:59,199
supply a little more.

620
00:20:59,199 --> 00:21:01,046
Again, this is like very new, but

621
00:21:01,046 --> 00:21:03,760
are you guys seeing a lot more
applications now from smaller

622
00:21:03,860 --> 00:21:07,428
developers or homeowners?
Or are they still mostly from the

623
00:21:07,428 --> 00:21:09,995
large developers?
I would say in general,

624
00:21:09,995 --> 00:21:12,996
applications have been quite down
this year in 2024 across the board

625
00:21:12,996 --> 00:21:13,797
for planning applications.

626
00:21:13,797 --> 00:21:14,964
There is still some major

627
00:21:14,864 --> 00:21:16,464
developments that are going on.

628
00:21:16,464 --> 00:21:18,065
Things like the mill site, there

629
00:21:18,065 --> 00:21:20,599
was another area redevelopment
plan for Harvey and Birch that

630
00:21:20,599 --> 00:21:21,599
went to council yesterday.

631
00:21:21,599 --> 00:21:22,933
Some major projects are still

632
00:21:22,933 --> 00:21:26,362
getting planned out, but there's
definitely been a pause on

633
00:21:26,269 --> 00:21:26,576
multifamily applications.

634
00:21:26,510 --> 00:21:27,139
And I think also even single

635
00:21:27,173 --> 00:21:27,909
family and even infill across the
board.

636
00:21:27,743 --> 00:21:29,190
And I think it has more to do with
probably interest rates than it

637
00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:29,792
does with like the desire for
supply.

638
00:21:29,726 --> 00:21:29,860
Yeah.

639
00:21:29,860 --> 00:21:32,162
I mean, I think it's the cost of

640
00:21:32,062 --> 00:21:34,561
housing relative to what people
can afford to purchase and i think

641
00:21:34,561 --> 00:21:37,478
people could build more but at
certain price points they're you

642
00:21:37,478 --> 00:21:41,480
know not selling yeah you guys
probably know that better than i

643
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,160
do like one of my neighbors i live
in the infill housing area and

644
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:50,830
they're selling it and it's been
on the market now for it's been a

645
00:21:50,930 --> 00:21:56,160
brand new unit for quite some time
and they just had a recent price

646
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,985
drop by a hundred thousand or
150,000 and i think that's the

647
00:21:59,985 --> 00:22:03,233
trend that's going on yeah that is
definitely trending yeah that is

648
00:22:03,233 --> 00:22:08,073
definitely trending a lot of that
going on so like kind of back to

649
00:22:08,073 --> 00:22:12,469
what taylor was talking about like
i imagine that our population is

650
00:22:12,469 --> 00:22:14,744
still growing i actually don't
know the numbers on this oh yeah

651
00:22:14,744 --> 00:22:18,746
no it's booming yeah so oh yeah
and now you say that all the

652
00:22:18,746 --> 00:22:20,975
development permits are going down
like are we just setting ourselves

653
00:22:20,975 --> 00:22:23,920
up for another boom in two three
three, four, five years?

654
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:24,178
Potentially.

655
00:22:24,178 --> 00:22:26,260
I mean, I think it has more to do

656
00:22:26,260 --> 00:22:28,060
with affordability than the desire
people would like units.

657
00:22:28,060 --> 00:22:31,891
And I think in the bus time, you
will see people being in less than

658
00:22:31,891 --> 00:22:34,160
ideal housing situations or
younger people staying with their

659
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:34,833
parents for longer.

660
00:22:34,833 --> 00:22:36,179
Situations like that, you'll have

661
00:22:36,179 --> 00:22:41,559
a crunch time time you'll be
dealing with daycare dealing with

662
00:22:41,559 --> 00:22:45,240
daycare pickup for 40 years
daycare is another uh huge problem

663
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:50,081
in the is another uh huge problem
in the city where there's like yes

664
00:22:50,081 --> 00:22:55,206
you can build quadruple the amount
of spaces that they'd still be

665
00:22:55,206 --> 00:22:59,527
full yeah yeah the daycare that i
they just opened their doors a

666
00:22:59,527 --> 00:23:03,820
year and a half ago that That was
during the time of building

667
00:23:03,820 --> 00:23:04,385
blocks.

668
00:23:04,385 --> 00:23:05,444
People went away.

669
00:23:05,444 --> 00:23:05,938
Yeah.

670
00:23:05,938 --> 00:23:06,999
Because of redevelopment.

671
00:23:06,999 --> 00:23:10,312
And I asked, do you want news
coverage?

672
00:23:10,212 --> 00:23:12,559
Because it's a good news story
that you're doing it.

673
00:23:12,559 --> 00:23:14,123
And the owner said, please no.

674
00:23:14,123 --> 00:23:15,249
Like, it's just word of mouth.

675
00:23:15,249 --> 00:23:18,929
And I already have like 400 people
on the wait list.

676
00:23:18,929 --> 00:23:21,355
So I don't want any news.

677
00:23:21,255 --> 00:23:22,117
want any news.

678
00:23:22,117 --> 00:23:22,375
Yeah.

679
00:23:22,375 --> 00:23:23,822
And that is definitely a business

680
00:23:23,813 --> 00:23:24,240
in demand.

681
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:25,336
There's no doubt about it.

682
00:23:25,336 --> 00:23:25,756
Yes.

683
00:23:25,756 --> 00:23:28,444
In terms of where the city Yes.

684
00:23:28,444 --> 00:23:32,677
In terms of where the city stands,
when these eventual bills kind of

685
00:23:32,677 --> 00:23:33,987
forced your guys' hand, were you
happy about this?

686
00:23:33,987 --> 00:23:37,145
Were you like, oh, yeah, we've
been trying to do this for a

687
00:23:37,145 --> 00:23:38,796
while?
Or were you guys like, ah, you

688
00:23:38,796 --> 00:23:40,860
know, we wanted to do this on our
own time.

689
00:23:40,860 --> 00:23:43,774
Like, could you have done this
before the bills came out anyways?

690
00:23:43,774 --> 00:23:47,163
Yeah, like I was saying, with the
core area, we probably would have

691
00:23:47,163 --> 00:23:48,587
done something similar to this
anyways.

692
00:23:48,587 --> 00:23:50,349
There are other things that we
didn't like, like devils are in

693
00:23:50,349 --> 00:23:51,784
the details, like the province
also announced four

694
00:23:51,784 --> 00:23:52,152
transit-oriented areas.

695
00:23:52,152 --> 00:23:53,928
So they are Rutland, Orchard Park

696
00:23:53,928 --> 00:23:55,841
Mall, Oak Island College, and then
the hospital.

697
00:23:55,841 --> 00:23:58,073
Noticeably, they did not include
Queensway, which is our main

698
00:23:58,073 --> 00:23:58,399
transit hub.

699
00:23:58,399 --> 00:23:59,542
And the hospital was they did

700
00:23:59,542 --> 00:24:01,512
Noticeably, not include which is
Queensway, our main transit And

701
00:24:01,512 --> 00:24:02,043
the hub.

702
00:24:02,043 --> 00:24:02,892
hospital was very controversial,

703
00:24:02,892 --> 00:24:05,554
both from, you know, planning, as
well as our council and the

704
00:24:05,654 --> 00:24:08,544
neighborhood and everything where,
you know, around 400 meters of

705
00:24:08,544 --> 00:24:11,910
that transit stop, you know, up to
six story apartment buildings are

706
00:24:11,910 --> 00:24:13,892
now allowed even in the heritage
area.

707
00:24:13,892 --> 00:24:15,763
So as of right, so that's
implemented now.

708
00:24:15,763 --> 00:24:19,260
Like, isn't there helicopter
concerns too around the hospital?

709
00:24:19,260 --> 00:24:19,397
Yeah.

710
00:24:19,397 --> 00:24:21,857
So that one, I directly contacted

711
00:24:21,857 --> 00:24:25,815
people at Interior Health and the
person who runs the helicopter

712
00:24:25,815 --> 00:24:26,048
there.

713
00:24:26,048 --> 00:24:27,157
And technically the transit

714
00:24:27,157 --> 00:24:29,374
oriented areas, legislation says
within 200 meters, you have to go

715
00:24:29,374 --> 00:24:31,317
up to 12 stories.

716
00:24:31,317 --> 00:24:31,511
Yeah.

717
00:24:31,511 --> 00:24:34,329
And then from 200 to 400 meters in
a radius, you have to be allowed

718
00:24:34,329 --> 00:24:36,831
to go up to six stories.

719
00:24:36,831 --> 00:24:37,295
Yeah.

720
00:24:37,295 --> 00:24:40,697
We did get an exemption from the
ministry because of the heliport

721
00:24:40,697 --> 00:24:43,071
yes anything built more than six
stories would interfere with like

722
00:24:43,071 --> 00:24:46,256
the operations and safety of the
heliport yeah so that one was

723
00:24:46,256 --> 00:24:49,340
allowed to be just six stories
building across yeah the 400

724
00:24:49,340 --> 00:24:52,758
meters so have the 400 meters so
have you guys had any pushback

725
00:24:52,758 --> 00:24:55,608
from people building a fourplex in
a suburban neighborhood i think

726
00:24:55,606 --> 00:24:58,243
that like i think that like in the
suburban, it's going to have

727
00:24:58,243 --> 00:24:58,603
limited uptake.

728
00:24:58,603 --> 00:24:58,860
Yeah.

729
00:24:58,860 --> 00:25:00,264
Because most of those
neighborhoods were built, let's

730
00:25:00,264 --> 00:25:03,043
say like the 90s onwards.

731
00:25:03,043 --> 00:25:03,169
Yeah.

732
00:25:03,169 --> 00:25:07,366
And a lot of the homes are not old
enough really to like to demo and

733
00:25:07,366 --> 00:25:07,573
rebuild.

734
00:25:07,573 --> 00:25:07,366
There might be some plots where

735
00:25:07,366 --> 00:25:10,953
you have enough space to get some
construction material and then you

736
00:25:10,953 --> 00:25:13,420
want to do a unit in the back.

737
00:25:13,357 --> 00:25:13,460
Yeah.

738
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:14,422
Depending on slope on all those
factors.

739
00:25:14,422 --> 00:25:16,429
And it's any combination of four
units in the suburbs like so it

740
00:25:16,329 --> 00:25:18,293
could be a house suite carachos
and another single family dwelling

741
00:25:18,293 --> 00:25:20,750
could be two single family
dwellings with suites so it's any

742
00:25:20,750 --> 00:25:24,101
sort of combo yeah i don't think
as much i think as much uptake

743
00:25:24,101 --> 00:25:26,343
probably i haven't seen anything
come through yet development

744
00:25:26,343 --> 00:25:28,879
permits are required at any three
units or more.

745
00:25:28,879 --> 00:25:30,952
So we haven't seen any DPs in for
suburban infill.

746
00:25:30,952 --> 00:25:35,559
We've seen lots in for core area.

747
00:25:35,559 --> 00:25:35,956
Yeah.

748
00:25:35,956 --> 00:25:41,670
You think it's a bit of a blessing
in disguise for the city that the

749
00:25:41,670 --> 00:25:44,930
market is just slower right now
while you guys implement all the

750
00:25:44,899 --> 00:25:45,149
changes?
Would you guys rather it was just

751
00:25:45,118 --> 00:25:45,400
zinging and you're just getting
them through?

752
00:25:45,312 --> 00:25:46,325
What's best for you?
Yeah, obviously.

753
00:25:46,325 --> 00:25:49,098
It's like, can't get it too.

754
00:25:49,198 --> 00:25:52,040
Like we would love to have lots of

755
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,694
housing for everybody who wants to
declone it at The obvious answer

756
00:25:55,694 --> 00:25:57,425
is Kiki needed like, Like we would
too.

757
00:25:57,425 --> 00:26:00,646
love to have lots of housing for
everybody who wants to move to

758
00:26:00,546 --> 00:26:01,907
Kelowna at an affordable price for
everybody.

759
00:26:01,907 --> 00:26:02,920
Me too.

760
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:04,342
Where do I vote?

761
00:26:04,342 --> 00:26:05,011
Sounds easy.

762
00:26:05,011 --> 00:26:06,511
I'll vote for Adam.

763
00:26:06,411 --> 00:26:07,120
vote for Adam.

764
00:26:07,020 --> 00:26:08,603
Yeah, supply and affordability and

765
00:26:08,603 --> 00:26:10,156
sensitivity with all the existing
neighborhoods.

766
00:26:10,156 --> 00:26:12,956
So yeah, there's a lot of
objectives in planning and

767
00:26:12,956 --> 00:26:13,404
development.

768
00:26:13,404 --> 00:26:15,109
Like sometimes there's trade-offs.

769
00:26:15,109 --> 00:26:17,588
I just think of like yeah, think
of like a neighborhood like

770
00:26:17,488 --> 00:26:17,667
Wilden.

771
00:26:17,667 --> 00:26:19,146
So let's say you live in Wilden,

772
00:26:19,146 --> 00:26:20,816
you're not really paying attention
to the news.

773
00:26:20,816 --> 00:26:24,422
You live there for a few years,
and then all of a sudden there's a

774
00:26:24,422 --> 00:26:26,200
fourplex going beside you.

775
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,448
Are they going to love that?

776
00:26:28,448 --> 00:26:32,602
And then they go to complain, and
then they realize, oh, this has

777
00:26:32,602 --> 00:26:34,805
been in the zoning for four years
now.

778
00:26:34,805 --> 00:26:37,864
I feel like it hasn't really
sunken in that that's possible

779
00:26:37,864 --> 00:26:38,490
over there.

780
00:26:38,490 --> 00:26:38,804
Yeah, those ones, though, if if

781
00:26:38,804 --> 00:26:41,860
you see especially new
subdivisions yeah like the amount

782
00:26:41,860 --> 00:26:43,940
of host that's built on like the
building yes covenant yes covenant

783
00:26:43,940 --> 00:26:46,220
yes yeah you know there's there's
usually practically not much area

784
00:26:46,220 --> 00:26:51,052
to like yeah expand to like on
those lots they're yeah to like on

785
00:26:51,052 --> 00:26:53,297
those lots they're pretty
efficiently built out yeah but i

786
00:26:53,297 --> 00:26:55,316
mean there are could be some
exceptions there what about like

787
00:26:55,316 --> 00:26:58,793
the but i mean there are could be
some exceptions there about like

788
00:26:58,793 --> 00:27:01,285
the newer areas like what is it
called olive pond place or

789
00:27:01,285 --> 00:27:05,105
whatever like those kind of areas?
Like those are just lots right now

790
00:27:05,205 --> 00:27:07,209
or are going to be lots.

791
00:27:07,209 --> 00:27:08,907
So they could do that there,

792
00:27:08,907 --> 00:27:09,653
right?
They could do that.

793
00:27:09,653 --> 00:27:11,573
So like let's say bare lots.

794
00:27:11,573 --> 00:27:11,964
Yeah.

795
00:27:11,964 --> 00:27:14,897
Currently, like we definitely
confirmed with the ministry and

796
00:27:14,897 --> 00:27:17,128
some single family developers were
asking us whether their building

797
00:27:17,128 --> 00:27:17,855
schemes still apply.

798
00:27:17,855 --> 00:27:17,987
And currently the ministry said

799
00:27:17,987 --> 00:27:20,496
yes, but they said they are
reviewing that.

800
00:27:20,496 --> 00:27:24,632
And if that becomes a problem or
achieving certain targets, they

801
00:27:24,632 --> 00:27:25,680
might change it.

802
00:27:25,580 --> 00:27:27,240
So what that means essentially is

803
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,887
that single family developers
could put a billing scheme on

804
00:27:30,887 --> 00:27:32,943
limiting it to one unit per lot.

805
00:27:32,931 --> 00:27:34,180
But that is a private agreement

806
00:27:34,180 --> 00:27:36,279
between the developer and the
homeowner and future homeowners or

807
00:27:36,279 --> 00:27:37,013
homeowners in the area.

808
00:27:37,013 --> 00:27:38,560
So only enforcement of that would

809
00:27:38,545 --> 00:27:39,941
be from litigation between suing
each other, like either the

810
00:27:39,941 --> 00:27:42,480
developer suing, you know, an old
property owner that's now building

811
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,404
something that it was against the
scheme or existing neighbors.

812
00:27:44,404 --> 00:27:45,331
So where the city would not be in
the way of building that.

813
00:27:45,182 --> 00:27:45,232
Interesting.

814
00:27:45,196 --> 00:27:45,246
Okay.

815
00:27:45,210 --> 00:27:45,555
Do you guys have any guys have any
fast track?

816
00:27:45,519 --> 00:27:46,511
Like you brought up a really cool
point that I think is overlooked

817
00:27:46,509 --> 00:27:49,720
so often is do you have fast track
designs for like a Interesting.

818
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:50,511
Okay.

819
00:27:50,511 --> 00:27:54,269
seen units or we want to build a

820
00:27:54,269 --> 00:27:54,500
fourplex.

821
00:27:53,945 --> 00:27:56,260
But like, if you already have a

822
00:27:56,260 --> 00:27:58,029
million dollar structure,
economically, it doesn't really

823
00:27:58,029 --> 00:27:58,831
make sense.

824
00:27:58,931 --> 00:28:00,230
But if you can throw a little

825
00:28:00,230 --> 00:28:04,772
carriage house in the back, do you
have any fast track options?

826
00:28:04,772 --> 00:28:06,620
Or like, is the city looking to
support that more?

827
00:28:06,780 --> 00:28:09,066
Yes, I would say that's like
always supported like kind of any

828
00:28:09,066 --> 00:28:09,468
infill housing.

829
00:28:09,468 --> 00:28:10,934
I mean, the fast track is really

830
00:28:10,934 --> 00:28:13,218
meant for more like demo rebuild,
you know, like efficiency of

831
00:28:13,218 --> 00:28:15,576
number of units on a site.

832
00:28:15,557 --> 00:28:16,817
So yes, you could add units to

833
00:28:16,764 --> 00:28:18,975
your property and if three or more
units, then you would just be a

834
00:28:18,975 --> 00:28:20,080
development permit that's approved
by staff.

835
00:28:20,500 --> 00:28:22,992
So there would be just a review
and the purpose mostly of these

836
00:28:22,979 --> 00:28:23,702
development permits.

837
00:28:23,602 --> 00:28:24,902
The province wanted municipalities

838
00:28:24,902 --> 00:28:28,458
to be light touch on like forming
character and how the buildings

839
00:28:28,458 --> 00:28:28,732
look.

840
00:28:28,732 --> 00:28:30,633
So we do have forming character

841
00:28:30,633 --> 00:28:33,229
guidelines, but the real focus is
quite heavy on like site planning.

842
00:28:33,229 --> 00:28:35,360
So landscaping, parking, garbage
recycling, some of the

843
00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:36,280
fundamentals of how it actually
works, whether there's a lane or

844
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:36,817
no lane.

845
00:28:36,817 --> 00:28:39,347
Characterizes have been like way

846
00:28:39,347 --> 00:28:41,538
down over the last couple of years
in terms of building.

847
00:28:41,521 --> 00:28:41,338
And I think it has a lot to do
with the significant increase in

848
00:28:41,338 --> 00:28:43,945
DCCs that happened a few years
ago, a couple of years ago, where

849
00:28:43,945 --> 00:28:45,585
it went from $2,500 to $30,000
approximately.

850
00:28:45,585 --> 00:28:47,040
I don't have the exact number.

851
00:28:46,998 --> 00:28:47,948
It depends on which area you're

852
00:28:47,948 --> 00:28:48,027
in.

853
00:28:48,027 --> 00:28:48,891
But with this new small scale

854
00:28:48,891 --> 00:28:51,240
multi-unit housing, like anywhere
in the core area, we actually got

855
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:51,962
rid of carriage houses.

856
00:28:51,962 --> 00:28:54,084
So there's no such thing as

857
00:28:54,084 --> 00:28:56,454
carriage houses anymore in the
core area.

858
00:28:56,454 --> 00:29:00,616
And the reasoning is, is that
carriage houses like had the high

859
00:29:00,616 --> 00:29:04,940
DCC amount, which was basically, I
think only a thousand or $2,000

860
00:29:04,940 --> 00:29:07,292
cheaper than a single family
dwelling.

861
00:29:07,292 --> 00:29:11,251
You were restricted to the amount
of area you could have, and you

862
00:29:11,351 --> 00:29:14,119
could only do two stories in
height and it had different

863
00:29:14,119 --> 00:29:17,502
setbacks where you you now, if if
in the core, if you just build

864
00:29:17,602 --> 00:29:21,931
another unit that you can sell,
the DCCs are similar and you can

865
00:29:21,931 --> 00:29:24,208
go up to three stories.

866
00:29:24,208 --> 00:29:25,725
So there's more flexibility now

867
00:29:25,725 --> 00:29:29,450
just to have a unit and not like a
carriage house.

868
00:29:29,450 --> 00:29:31,992
The key thing about carriage
houses is that they're not allowed

869
00:29:31,992 --> 00:29:32,704
to be stratified.

870
00:29:32,704 --> 00:29:34,920
So you can't use them as like a

871
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,193
real estate entity to sell or
finance.

872
00:29:37,193 --> 00:29:40,298
They were just meant to be another
dwelling unit for rental income or

873
00:29:40,298 --> 00:29:41,160
for family use.

874
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:41,515
So obviously, it increased the

875
00:29:41,515 --> 00:29:43,236
value of your property, but you
couldn't sell the unit.

876
00:29:43,236 --> 00:29:47,746
So keratoses do exist now in the
suburban areas and the rural

877
00:29:47,746 --> 00:29:47,956
areas.

878
00:29:47,956 --> 00:29:50,374
You still can do keratoses.

879
00:29:50,374 --> 00:29:55,632
In the rural areas, you have to
have at least a hectare of land

880
00:29:55,732 --> 00:29:57,945
for enough area for septic.

881
00:29:57,945 --> 00:30:03,092
You can do that in the suburbs,

882
00:30:02,992 --> 00:30:08,880
but in the core area, we're saying
it's any sort of unit, any combo

883
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:09,283
of units.

884
00:30:09,283 --> 00:30:10,667
So there's not such thing as a

885
00:30:10,667 --> 00:30:11,919
carriage house per se.

886
00:30:11,819 --> 00:30:11,934
Okay.

887
00:30:11,934 --> 00:30:14,833
So is it possible to have a
basement suite, stratify it and

888
00:30:14,833 --> 00:30:17,550
then sell it?
Classic in the city planning world

889
00:30:17,550 --> 00:30:19,259
is always like, it depends.

890
00:30:19,259 --> 00:30:20,061
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

891
00:30:20,061 --> 00:30:24,874
And I would say it depends by, I
would say it depends by, like when

892
00:30:24,874 --> 00:30:26,923
you say secondary suite, secondary
suite has a certain building

893
00:30:26,923 --> 00:30:28,790
classification, usually has less
fire separations between the units

894
00:30:28,790 --> 00:30:32,516
so i mean you could convert a
secondary suite to just a regular

895
00:30:32,516 --> 00:30:35,084
dwelling unit kind of like a
duplex or a city attached to

896
00:30:35,084 --> 00:30:40,396
either way you just share a wall i
mean there's just different like

897
00:30:40,396 --> 00:30:42,957
building code implications but
sure you'd have to upgrade the

898
00:30:42,957 --> 00:30:47,343
unit so that you can be able to
sell it like in terms of those

899
00:30:47,343 --> 00:30:48,903
fire separations and those things.

900
00:30:49,003 --> 00:30:52,901
to in terms of those But yeah.

901
00:30:52,901 --> 00:30:53,158
That's interesting.

902
00:30:53,158 --> 00:30:54,956
I guess if someone's building a

903
00:30:54,856 --> 00:30:56,040
new house, you could build that
in.

904
00:30:56,140 --> 00:30:59,372
The big difference, though, also,
like if you have a house with a

905
00:30:59,372 --> 00:31:02,224
suite, it's a cost-benefit
analysis because as soon as you

906
00:31:02,224 --> 00:31:05,359
put it to another unit, that's
when you're paying your DCCs.

907
00:31:05,359 --> 00:31:05,680
Yes.

908
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:07,245
You know, the cost charges.

909
00:31:07,345 --> 00:31:12,152
So there's a lot of upfront money,
but at least then you have a unit

910
00:31:12,052 --> 00:31:14,782
to sell like i'm thinking like
people have basement suites and

911
00:31:14,782 --> 00:31:16,871
mortgage helpers but like i guess
you can Yes.

912
00:31:16,871 --> 00:31:19,825
You i'm thinking like people have
basement suites and mortgage

913
00:31:19,726 --> 00:31:24,131
helpers but like i guess you can
kind of look at the same way if

914
00:31:24,131 --> 00:31:27,770
you're going to sell it for three
or four hundred thousand dollars

915
00:31:27,770 --> 00:31:31,992
at the end kind of different way
to do it yeah i mean it'd i mean

916
00:31:31,992 --> 00:31:35,962
it'd be a cost benefit like yeah
quite possible as a house in a

917
00:31:35,962 --> 00:31:38,338
suite let's say but you have
enough area in the back to build

918
00:31:38,337 --> 00:31:41,215
another dwelling or a duplex, then
you could stratify all the units.

919
00:31:41,215 --> 00:31:42,942
And that would be called like a
strata conversion because you

920
00:31:42,942 --> 00:31:44,669
would demo the existing house.

921
00:31:44,669 --> 00:31:46,442
You're just building, let's say,

922
00:31:46,442 --> 00:31:49,406
two units in the back and then you
would stratify all the units.

923
00:31:49,406 --> 00:31:52,343
The key there though is that the
existing home and the suite have

924
00:31:52,343 --> 00:31:55,902
to be up to like kind of current
BC building code.

925
00:31:55,902 --> 00:31:58,472
So what I've heard from our
building department is that 80s

926
00:31:58,472 --> 00:32:01,421
homes or earlier, it's fairly
simple to do it 70 homes or maybe

927
00:32:01,421 --> 00:32:06,020
60s homes and older are you know
hard to do unless they've been

928
00:32:06,020 --> 00:32:08,671
recently renovated yeah like to
those studs yeah makes sense i'm

929
00:32:08,671 --> 00:32:12,274
glad we've had you on before so
they've been recently renovated

930
00:32:12,274 --> 00:32:15,652
yeah like to those studs yeah
makes i'm glad we've had you on

931
00:32:15,652 --> 00:32:19,042
before so we feel more friendly
and gymnastics because i feel like

932
00:32:19,042 --> 00:32:21,447
matt and i are just peppering
questions like, Hey, what about

933
00:32:21,447 --> 00:32:22,649
this?
What about this?

934
00:32:22,649 --> 00:32:24,339
But every angle, this is kind of
my last question.

935
00:32:24,339 --> 00:32:26,480
Then I'll get more, you know,
lighthearted and personal, but

936
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,674
what excites you?
Like, what is the best opportunity

937
00:32:28,619 --> 00:32:31,810
you're seeing in Kelowna, whether
it's like an investor or just a

938
00:32:31,810 --> 00:32:35,685
person that wants to buy a house
or like as a city planner, like,

939
00:32:35,685 --> 00:32:38,320
Hey, I think we're doing a really
good job in this area.

940
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,268
And I see in five or 15 years
that, you know, it's going to be

941
00:32:40,267 --> 00:32:41,808
just an amazing neighborhood to
live in.

942
00:32:41,808 --> 00:32:45,374
Like, what's your kind of favorite
area for future planning?

943
00:32:45,374 --> 00:32:48,732
Well, I think there's matt there's
a few different areas depending

944
00:32:48,732 --> 00:32:49,343
upon response.

945
00:32:49,343 --> 00:32:51,903
So like in terms of like just pure

946
00:32:51,903 --> 00:32:54,297
investment and what's probably
good is kind of in the transit

947
00:32:54,297 --> 00:32:55,747
oriented areas from the provincial
government.

948
00:32:55,747 --> 00:32:58,421
So specifically around like the
hospital area where it's MF4 or

949
00:32:58,421 --> 00:33:00,100
let's say in Rutland.

950
00:33:00,100 --> 00:33:01,318
In those areas, the provincial

951
00:33:01,318 --> 00:33:02,369
government banned municipalities
from requiring any parking.

952
00:33:02,369 --> 00:33:03,863
So it just gives some extra
flexibility for development in

953
00:33:03,863 --> 00:33:04,364
those areas.

954
00:33:04,364 --> 00:33:03,476
I mean, I think practically like

955
00:33:03,476 --> 00:33:08,739
our parking rates, I think are
pretty close to demand,

956
00:33:08,739 --> 00:33:10,189
especially, let's say, in the
infill housing.

957
00:33:10,089 --> 00:33:13,353
But if you could squeeze in five
units and four parking spaces and

958
00:33:13,353 --> 00:33:16,477
one of them was a rental unit that
maybe not necessarily need parking

959
00:33:16,477 --> 00:33:16,588
space.

960
00:33:16,588 --> 00:33:18,251
I mean, it is tough to sell units

961
00:33:18,151 --> 00:33:21,067
without a parking space, but
rental units, I think you could

962
00:33:21,067 --> 00:33:25,130
maybe do it maybe a little easier,
especially if you're doing a small

963
00:33:25,130 --> 00:33:25,955
apartment So building.

964
00:33:25,955 --> 00:33:27,571
I think there could maybe do maybe

965
00:33:27,571 --> 00:33:30,364
a little it, especially easier, if
you're doing a small apartment

966
00:33:30,364 --> 00:33:30,416
building.

967
00:33:30,416 --> 00:33:27,571
So I think there's some kind of

968
00:33:27,571 --> 00:33:29,046
unique opportunities in those
transit-oriented areas.

969
00:33:29,046 --> 00:33:30,364
I opportunities in those
transit-oriented areas.

970
00:33:30,364 --> 00:33:31,720
I do think there's like ongoing
transformation of the downtown in

971
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:31,800
particular.

972
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:32,640
Same with South Pendoza, but South

973
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,622
Pendoza, I think, has really been
captured a lot in terms of value.

974
00:33:35,622 --> 00:33:37,911
I told the developer, Water Street
by by the park when they first

975
00:33:37,911 --> 00:33:40,257
came in and they were looking for
land to purchase.

976
00:33:40,257 --> 00:33:42,504
Back then, if you remember, Leon
Avenue was kind of the tent city.

977
00:33:42,504 --> 00:33:45,240
And I said, you know, Leon and
Lawrence definitely have the

978
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,160
potential to be kind of like Coal
Harbor 2.0, right next to City

979
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:50,569
Park, you know, right off the
highway.

980
00:33:50,569 --> 00:33:54,376
And, you I know, feel like there's
a huge potential in Leon and

981
00:33:54,376 --> 00:33:56,281
Lawrence over time you to, right
know, off the highway.

982
00:33:56,281 --> 00:33:59,402
you And, I know, feel like there's
a huge potential in Leon and

983
00:33:59,402 --> 00:34:00,979
Lawrence over time to, you know,
transform like radically from like

984
00:34:00,979 --> 00:34:01,396
value expectations.

985
00:34:01,396 --> 00:34:03,236
But I think also just in the

986
00:34:03,236 --> 00:34:08,039
regular housing, I would say, I
think the most exciting area would

987
00:34:08,039 --> 00:34:09,545
probably be the North End.

988
00:34:09,545 --> 00:34:12,487
Like we do have a North End plan

989
00:34:12,487 --> 00:34:16,882
going on right now, as well as the
mill site is getting

990
00:34:16,882 --> 00:34:17,214
reinvigorated.

991
00:34:17,214 --> 00:34:19,639
It was kind of a delay on the mill

992
00:34:19,639 --> 00:34:17,380
site over the last year or two,
but there's a new sort of

993
00:34:17,380 --> 00:34:20,141
applicant team over there and
they're wanting to get to council

994
00:34:20,141 --> 00:34:22,839
and they're getting really excited
about the future redevelopment of

995
00:34:22,839 --> 00:34:23,667
the mill off last site.

996
00:34:23,667 --> 00:34:25,684
So I do think the North End has

997
00:34:25,684 --> 00:34:27,856
also a real transformation
potential from what it is right

998
00:34:27,856 --> 00:34:27,958
now.

999
00:34:27,958 --> 00:34:29,284
Even existing homes that are there

1000
00:34:29,284 --> 00:34:31,828
like turning into infill housing
and what that neighborhood could

1001
00:34:31,828 --> 00:34:36,531
be in the next 10 or 15 years yeah
maybe in all of the cities i agree

1002
00:34:36,531 --> 00:34:39,636
man the the north end there like
the mill site not to uh put too

1003
00:34:39,636 --> 00:34:43,291
much pressure on you but i would
feel as the city like an immense

1004
00:34:43,291 --> 00:34:46,087
amount of pressure because that's
kind of the last big vacant land

1005
00:34:46,087 --> 00:34:49,264
space that's like so close to the
downtown core that like you know

1006
00:34:49,264 --> 00:34:52,150
whatever is put there is really
going to shape the city moving

1007
00:34:52,150 --> 00:34:56,333
forward so yeah can you shed any
light on what the plan is there

1008
00:34:56,333 --> 00:35:00,361
adam yep and if anybody wants i'm
the yep and if anybody wants i'm

1009
00:35:00,361 --> 00:35:05,560
the planner assigned to that file
doing oh my god okay lay it on us

1010
00:35:05,700 --> 00:35:10,975
spill the deets so the applicant
they need to do a concept plan and

1011
00:35:10,975 --> 00:35:13,443
there there is an area of
redevelopment plan.

1012
00:35:13,443 --> 00:35:17,541
And there's a whole checklist of
submissions that they have to

1013
00:35:17,541 --> 00:35:17,930
make.

1014
00:35:17,930 --> 00:35:21,114
And so they're right now just kind

1015
00:35:21,114 --> 00:35:21,994
of like general concept.

1016
00:35:21,994 --> 00:35:24,185
So they're hoping to go to council

1017
00:35:24,185 --> 00:35:26,593
at the end of summer, maybe in
fall.

1018
00:35:26,493 --> 00:35:29,874
And then later on, finalize the
plan and then do it like an OCP

1019
00:35:29,874 --> 00:35:30,756
and zoning amendments.

1020
00:35:30,756 --> 00:35:32,811
There is still some cleanup on the

1021
00:35:32,811 --> 00:35:32,885
site.

1022
00:35:32,885 --> 00:35:35,277
So there are things that like

1023
00:35:35,277 --> 00:35:37,963
logistically would take a while
before like, let's say a building

1024
00:35:37,963 --> 00:35:41,612
permit comes, but they're also
kind of trying to focus their time

1025
00:35:41,612 --> 00:35:44,930
more on trying to figure out phase
one so that there's not a big time

1026
00:35:44,778 --> 00:35:45,326
gap between let's say plan
approval, zoning approval, and

1027
00:35:45,174 --> 00:35:45,480
then like building permit.

1028
00:35:45,293 --> 00:35:45,343
Yeah.

1029
00:35:45,406 --> 00:35:46,409
It's a long term, it's a massive
site that obviously couldn't build

1030
00:35:46,409 --> 00:35:48,723
that all out in like one building
permit.

1031
00:35:48,723 --> 00:35:48,836
Yeah.

1032
00:35:48,836 --> 00:35:41,168
It's a long term.

1033
00:35:47,990 --> 00:35:52,030
It's a massive site that, you
know, obviously couldn't build

1034
00:35:52,030 --> 00:35:55,097
that all out in like one building
permit.

1035
00:35:55,097 --> 00:35:56,748
doing Yeah.

1036
00:35:56,748 --> 00:35:59,195
So, you know, it has to be kind of

1037
00:35:59,195 --> 00:35:59,536
phased.

1038
00:35:59,536 --> 00:36:00,845
And they're also looking at like

1039
00:36:00,845 --> 00:36:03,801
different amenities that, you
know, the city and the general

1040
00:36:03,801 --> 00:36:05,850
neighborhood would benefit from
with development and how it would

1041
00:36:05,850 --> 00:36:08,330
benefit from it on a per phase
basis as well.

1042
00:36:08,230 --> 00:36:09,987
Yeah, that's something to keep an
eye on.

1043
00:36:09,987 --> 00:36:10,351
No doubt.

1044
00:36:10,351 --> 00:36:12,856
know we would benefit from it on a

1045
00:36:12,856 --> 00:36:16,734
per phase basis as well yeah
that's something to we would

1046
00:36:16,734 --> 00:36:20,318
benefit from it on a per phase
basis as well yeah that's

1047
00:36:20,218 --> 00:36:23,059
something to keep an eye on no
doubt so when they pour the

1048
00:36:23,029 --> 00:36:24,144
concrete on that are you gonna put
your hands in it and let them

1049
00:36:24,144 --> 00:36:25,180
check this year i helped plan this
told you there's gonna be hardball

1050
00:36:25,180 --> 00:36:30,183
questions coming at you yeah no i
didn't have an no i didn't have an

1051
00:36:30,183 --> 00:36:34,224
opportunity to do that on all the
other previous files that i worked

1052
00:36:34,224 --> 00:36:37,746
on like water street by the park
or movalla or one water for, Ella.

1053
00:36:37,746 --> 00:36:39,244
It is nice doing some construction
tours.

1054
00:36:39,244 --> 00:36:42,176
I have been privileged to do a
couple of construction tours and

1055
00:36:42,176 --> 00:36:45,174
seeing the views from some of
these places before they're

1056
00:36:45,174 --> 00:36:45,520
finished construction.

1057
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:46,762
And it's way different when you

1058
00:36:46,762 --> 00:36:47,818
don't have windows on it.

1059
00:36:47,818 --> 00:36:48,501
I don't know.

1060
00:36:48,501 --> 00:36:51,410
For some reason, the way the
interior of these buildings are

1061
00:36:51,410 --> 00:36:54,306
designed, you feel completely
comfortable at the 30th tower or

1062
00:36:54,306 --> 00:36:54,860
30th floor.

1063
00:36:54,860 --> 00:36:47,011
But when there's no windows, it's

1064
00:36:56,554 --> 00:36:56,961
really nervous.

1065
00:36:56,961 --> 00:36:57,757
Yes, I can imagine.

1066
00:36:57,757 --> 00:36:58,844
Yes, I can imagine.

1067
00:36:58,844 --> 00:36:58,916
Yeah.

1068
00:36:58,916 --> 00:37:03,010
Especially if you're a little
afraid of heights if you're a of

1069
00:37:03,010 --> 00:37:03,807
like I am.

1070
00:37:03,807 --> 00:37:06,198
It makes you look at that famous

1071
00:37:06,198 --> 00:37:08,855
painting when all the construction
workers are hanging on that beam.

1072
00:37:08,855 --> 00:37:09,320
That's right.

1073
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:10,088
Yeah, yeah.

1074
00:37:10,088 --> 00:37:12,902
Yeah, you look at it a little
differently when you're like, God,

1075
00:37:12,902 --> 00:37:15,289
I'm scared of being in this condo
without windows.

1076
00:37:15,289 --> 00:37:15,460
Yeah.

1077
00:37:15,460 --> 00:37:15,654
Imagine.

1078
00:37:15,654 --> 00:37:17,915
You'd be able to lunch on a
suspended I-beam like that.

1079
00:37:17,915 --> 00:37:18,754
Yeah, that'd be crazy.

1080
00:37:18,754 --> 00:37:19,206
Yeah.

1081
00:37:19,206 --> 00:37:22,490
All right, Adam, we're going to
jump into a wrap-up questions.

1082
00:37:22,490 --> 00:37:26,414
If you could buy one property in
the Okanagan in the next 12

1083
00:37:26,414 --> 00:37:28,853
months, what would it be?
Well, I would probably say,

1084
00:37:28,853 --> 00:37:31,098
because I'm focused on
redevelopment, and let's say if

1085
00:37:31,098 --> 00:37:33,886
you're going for, as an investor
point of view, some lots in South

1086
00:37:33,886 --> 00:37:34,152
Rutland.

1087
00:37:34,152 --> 00:37:34,550
I think a lot of the core area in

1088
00:37:34,550 --> 00:37:38,418
fill housing lots, maybe like the
land has been a little bit

1089
00:37:38,418 --> 00:37:38,582
overpriced.

1090
00:37:38,582 --> 00:37:39,724
And there are some beautiful

1091
00:37:39,724 --> 00:37:41,112
streets north of Springfield in
Rutland.

1092
00:37:41,112 --> 00:37:43,276
And I think there's potential to
really transform those areas.

1093
00:37:43,276 --> 00:37:44,002
Like Mitchell Road.

1094
00:37:44,002 --> 00:37:46,188
I was going to say, did you pay

1095
00:37:46,188 --> 00:37:47,376
Adam 20 bucks?
Adam 20 bucks?

1096
00:37:47,376 --> 00:37:49,527
You're just trying to pump up your
list.

1097
00:37:49,527 --> 00:37:50,470
You're describing my list.

1098
00:37:50,470 --> 00:37:51,636
You're describing my land assembly

1099
00:37:51,636 --> 00:37:52,439
in Mitchell.

1100
00:37:52,439 --> 00:37:53,334
Opportunities right there.

1101
00:37:53,334 --> 00:37:53,453
Unprompted.

1102
00:37:53,453 --> 00:37:54,467
The values are different there

1103
00:37:54,467 --> 00:37:58,000
than, let's say, you know, in the
Mission or in different suburbs.

1104
00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:59,680
But, I don't know, with
redevelopment and new

1105
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,222
construction, with the proximity
to everything, I do think there's

1106
00:38:03,222 --> 00:38:04,202
some really good potential there.

1107
00:38:04,202 --> 00:38:04,873
I love it.

1108
00:38:04,873 --> 00:38:05,700
Over time.

1109
00:38:05,700 --> 00:38:07,542
Any advice to give your

1110
00:38:07,542 --> 00:38:08,922
20-year-old self?
What would it be?

1111
00:38:08,922 --> 00:38:11,433
Let's say, don't fret so much for
university university is overrated

1112
00:38:11,433 --> 00:38:15,095
i love it it i like it i like it
yeah that's good advice i actually

1113
00:38:15,095 --> 00:38:19,611
do agree with that you don't need
university if you're buying one of

1114
00:38:19,611 --> 00:38:23,264
need university if you're buying
one of matt's listings what's your

1115
00:38:23,264 --> 00:38:25,285
favorite charity or how do you get
back my wife's would definitely be

1116
00:38:25,285 --> 00:38:26,336
probably the wife's would
definitely be probably the bcs bca

1117
00:38:26,313 --> 00:38:27,840
yeah she volunteered on the board
for quite some time sad day for

1118
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,602
that building to burn then to burn
then yesterday yeah yeah the

1119
00:38:30,602 --> 00:38:33,608
thrift store building yeah yeah
the thrift store yeah yeah i think

1120
00:38:33,608 --> 00:38:37,640
everybody did it yeah everybody
did it like it was at lunchtime

1121
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,288
and i was walking what is that
check cast net instantly yeah okay

1122
00:38:41,288 --> 00:38:44,276
yeah at least it was an abandoned
building and hopefully nobody got

1123
00:38:44,276 --> 00:38:44,608
hurt there.

1124
00:38:44,608 --> 00:38:45,690
But yeah, it was a very black

1125
00:38:45,629 --> 00:38:46,024
smoke, though.

1126
00:38:45,935 --> 00:38:46,158
That was a fun.

1127
00:38:46,158 --> 00:38:45,490
It looked way more serious than a
single building fire.

1128
00:38:45,490 --> 00:38:45,829
Yeah, exactly.

1129
00:38:45,824 --> 00:38:46,096
I agree with that.

1130
00:38:46,074 --> 00:38:46,158
Totally.

1131
00:38:46,158 --> 00:38:46,358
Yeah.

1132
00:38:46,297 --> 00:38:47,549
But I'd probably say for It looked
way more serious I'd probably say

1133
00:38:47,549 --> 00:38:48,640
for me, I do like to send a
Smurler Foundation.

1134
00:38:48,551 --> 00:38:49,966
I'm big into the curling world and
my daughter needed a lot of NICU

1135
00:38:49,966 --> 00:38:50,213
support.

1136
00:38:50,213 --> 00:38:51,567
We like to donate there every

1137
00:38:51,567 --> 00:38:53,476
Scotty's Turn Red Heart every
year.

1138
00:38:53,476 --> 00:38:54,154
So that's fantastic.

1139
00:38:54,154 --> 00:38:54,400
fantastic.

1140
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:55,245
OK, how can Taylor or I or a
listener help you?

1141
00:38:55,245 --> 00:38:58,064
What can we do for you, Adam?
You know, I would say stay

1142
00:38:58,064 --> 00:38:58,402
involved.

1143
00:38:58,402 --> 00:38:59,731
People paying attention and

1144
00:38:59,731 --> 00:39:00,542
actually getting feedback.

1145
00:39:00,542 --> 00:39:01,534
You'd be surprised.

1146
00:39:01,534 --> 00:39:06,220
People think that we get inundated
as planners, but it's usually not

1147
00:39:06,340 --> 00:39:09,280
as much as you think it would be,
especially if it's constructive or

1148
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:10,072
like having suggestions.

1149
00:39:10,072 --> 00:39:12,193
Those are very rare about plans or

1150
00:39:12,193 --> 00:39:12,729
development.

1151
00:39:12,729 --> 00:39:13,600
Yeah.

1152
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,962
So I don't have any social media
handles or anything.

1153
00:39:16,962 --> 00:39:17,989
I just have my email address.

1154
00:39:17,989 --> 00:39:19,382
You put in the show notes.

1155
00:39:19,382 --> 00:39:19,481
Yeah.

1156
00:39:19,481 --> 00:39:20,327
I love emailing.

1157
00:39:20,427 --> 00:39:22,449
You guys answer the questions so
well.

1158
00:39:22,449 --> 00:39:24,900
Like, I think that we had the best
planning department.

1159
00:39:24,900 --> 00:39:27,675
I'd like to implement you guys.

1160
00:39:27,575 --> 00:39:27,675
So. Well, appreciate that.

1161
00:39:27,575 --> 00:39:31,550
I mean, we were one of the first
municipalities to get all the

1162
00:39:30,463 --> 00:39:30,803
provincial housing bills
implemented.

1163
00:39:31,224 --> 00:39:31,296
Yeah.

1164
00:39:31,550 --> 00:39:32,710
No, yeah, you guys are really

1165
00:39:32,710 --> 00:39:33,790
quite good to work with.

1166
00:39:33,790 --> 00:39:35,095
So love to have you.

1167
00:39:35,095 --> 00:39:36,040
Okay, stop pumping his tires.

1168
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:37,674
Okay, stop pumping his tires.

1169
00:39:37,574 --> 00:39:38,138
Yeah, he pumped your listing.

1170
00:39:38,135 --> 00:39:39,930
And then we're going to circle

1171
00:39:39,817 --> 00:39:40,565
back to Mitchell Road.

1172
00:39:40,565 --> 00:39:41,780
No, you guys are awesome.

1173
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:42,460
Yeah.

1174
00:39:42,660 --> 00:39:45,576
Yeah, thanks for coming back on

1175
00:39:45,576 --> 00:39:49,355
it's been a long time but lots of
information to unpack there and

1176
00:39:49,455 --> 00:39:51,649
yeah i always appreciate chatting
with you it doesn't feel so long

1177
00:39:51,649 --> 00:39:53,703
because we see each other all the
time at college gymnastics feel so

1178
00:39:53,803 --> 00:39:57,147
long because we see each other all
the time at college feel but yes

1179
00:39:57,147 --> 00:39:59,844
okay well have a great afternoon
and uh yeah appreciate your time

1180
00:39:59,844 --> 00:40:01,417
hey pleasure for having me on.

1181
00:40:01,417 --> 00:40:01,811
Thank you.

1182
00:40:01,811 --> 00:40:02,779
uh yeah