68: Can City Infrastructure Survive the Push for Densification with Kelowna City Councillor Ron Cannan

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name is Ron Cannon, City of
Kelowna Councillor, and following

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comments are my personal opinion
and do not reflect those of

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Council or the City.

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to the Kelowna Real Estate

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Podcast.

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I am your host, mortgage broker

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Taylor Atkinson.

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I am your real estate agent host,

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Matt Glenn.

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What's going down, Taylor?

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You know, sun's shining, life is
good, and that means property

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taxes are coming up.

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So if you have gotten your notice

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or haven't gotten your notice,
look into it.

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So you have to apply for the
homeowner grant.

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There's obviously two grants.

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If you're over 65, a homeowner,

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and then if it's a rental
property, you don't get a grant.

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So you have to apply to the
province and then you make your

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payment to the city.

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So make sure you do that.

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Otherwise a 10% penalty.

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Taylor found out the hard told.

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I did.

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Yeah.

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Carrying on with our tax
discussions, also June 25th,

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potentially there's capital gains
Yeah.

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Maybe.

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Maybe capital gains.

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Yeah.

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Be honest, Taylor.

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What's happening there?
Yeah.

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I mean, they came out with this a
few months ago.

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They said they were going to do
it.

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It's kind of a tactical play, I
think, politically, but they still

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haven't passed the actual bill
that implements this.

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So Kim Moody, if you guys don't
follow him, he's very active on a

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bunch of platforms, but puts out
some awesome content and blogs.

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Very intelligent guy in terms of
accounting.

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I just want to paraphrase
something he wrote.

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So he goes, with the House of
Commons set to go on summer break

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around June 21st, the tax bill
will most likely be formally

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introduced in September.

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In the meantime, draft legislation

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may be published over the summer
by the finance department,

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officials said.

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They stressed that all core

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aspects of the capital gains hike
will be introduced in Monday's

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motion.

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This was this week.

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He goes on to say, this is Kim
now, he quotes, he goes, really?

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If I understand this correctly,
this means that draft legislation

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for capital gains inclusion rate
will not be introduced tomorrow.

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Instead, we are simply going to
get core principles via notice of

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ways of means of motion.

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Finishes he off, goes, tax is too

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complex to be left to core
principles via notice of ways of

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means of motion.

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He finishes he off, goes, tax is

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too complex to be left to core
principles.

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How can you expect Canadian
taxpayers to plan their affairs

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correctly when the detailed
legislation proposals will not be

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released and instead taxpayers and
their advisors are expected to

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rely on core principles?
I continue to be astounded on how

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incompetent this government is.

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That was Kim Moody, not me, but

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that does resonate with me.

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So basically what this means is

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notice of ways of means of motion.

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He finishes come out with this

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proposal and they're communicating
that they are moving forward with

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it.

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And June 25th is the date that it

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will be hypothetically
implemented.

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However, they're probably not
going to actually pass law until

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September, but they're like
retroactively going to stick to

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June 25th as their date.

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Which is crazy because you got to

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sell your property or sell your
capital gain before the June 25th,

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but you won't know until September
if you should have.

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Like what is the point of that?
Why don't you just say, you know

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what, we came out with this too
fast, like most of our legislation

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recently.

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Why don't we table this until like

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January 2025, which likely could
happen as well.

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So that's kind of where we're at.

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So if you're in that group, there

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are, you know, potential ways to
mitigate some of this, but it's

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just hard because you're going to
be spending time and money to try

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and mitigate something that you
don't know what the implications

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of it are.

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I saw it too, like this capital

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gains tax has just been rubbing me
the wrong way the last few weeks.

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So on Twitter, X now or whatever
we would call them, I saw this

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debate about these people out East
selling their cottages.

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They're griping about having to
pay capital gains on the cottages

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that they've had in the family for
years.

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And the argument was like, well,
these people, they're buying real

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estate, in this case, locally.

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They're buying in their own

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province, their own country.

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Instead of going on these overseas

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trips to Europe or Australia or
wherever they're going, their

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money is staying here when they
could have been going out

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everywhere else for every summer
of their life.

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And now they just get penalized
for it.

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I you think about that on a
massive scale, it's just

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incentivizing people to just beat
it and spend their money elsewhere

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instead of doing it here because
you have no idea what's going to

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come up in the future now with all
these stupid rules coming on.

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And it's just, it's a little
irritating.

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It also feels like it turns the
conversation into like crabs in

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the bucket.

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As soon as somebody gets a little

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bit ahead, you get all the other
little crabs reaching up and

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pulling them them back down and
being like get your ass down the

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bottom of the bucket like that you
know it's just like should be

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helping each other up not pulling
each other down with these stupid

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arguments you know it's just i
don't know why it takes so long

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for me to really well i mean i'm
actually stoked i mean yeah it's

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not every day matt gets excited
talking about tax so this is

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awesome day for me but the
narrative they're trying to turn

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is like, and the finance minister
has come out publicly with a

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couple of bold statements saying
like, you know, do you really want

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to live in a country where
children and families are

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struggling because, you know, the
wealthy 1%, it's like, it doesn't

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actually affect like the wealthy
1%, you know, like you're

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affecting everyone, mostly
entrepreneurs or families that are

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trying to build something like a
good life.

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It also really hurts our economy
in terms of people trying to

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invest in Canada because there's
just no margin for profit right

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now.

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So yeah, those are the kind of two

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current topics.

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June 25th, obviously keep an eye

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out for that.

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And then July 1st for property tax

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or July 2nd since July 1st is
Canada Day.

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Yeah.

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And then speaking about City of

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Kelowna, today's guest, awesome
guy.

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We've both been trying to reach
out to him for a while to get him

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on.

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I really enjoy a lot of his

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positions on some certain policies
and yeah, really liked having him

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on.

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So Ron Cannon from City of

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Kelowna, super fun guy to chat to.

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Pretty hard guy to get on the pod,

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but seems like he's very willing
to pick up the phone or meet for a

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coffee or something.

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So yeah, I think you guys will

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really enjoy this one.

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It was a fun conversation.

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We asked a lot of questions.

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He was willing to answer them.

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I don't think all of our questions
were softballs either.

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I think it was a good
conversation.

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Yeah, he's definitely not afraid
to just throw his opinion out

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there.

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And, you know, I do think like we

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like the growth in the city, but I
do think he has a very good view

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on things, especially since he's
been in politics for so long at

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such a high level that he does
have the long-term vision and he

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has seen how things play out.

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So the main thing I got out of it

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was like, hey, we need some
infrastructure planning in

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Kelowna.

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Yeah, we need to build.

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And yeah, there's a vacancy issue
and affordable houses, but it's

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kind of the chicken and the And
egg.

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at this point, like we need to
start looking at some of that

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infrastructure as well.

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So yeah, very insightful

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conversation, really enjoyed being
able to connect with him.

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And he was actually one of the
guys that brought up professional

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soccer coming to Kelowna for one
of the games.

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So if you don't have tickets for
that.

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Yeah, very cool.

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Yeah, give it a quick Google.

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They're playing at the Apple Bowl.

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this episode, like every episode,

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is sponsored by Century 21
Assurance Realty, the best

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brokerage in town.

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My brokerage, I think it's legit.

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I trust it with my own career.

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And I think you should too.

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It's a bold Matt's career is a
very important one.

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And it is taking off, much like
century 21 God.

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I needed that tire pump for the
weekend, dude.

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Thank you.

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Appreciate weekend.

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It's only like, what is it?
It's been a long week for Matt.

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Yeah, it has.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Well, Ron to the Welcome to the

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show, Ron.

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What a pleasure.

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great things and it's nice to
virtually meet you.

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Yeah, I've seen you at some
hearings and I've always quietly

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applauded some of your position.

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Yeah, I like your voice in there.

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So how we like to connect with our
listener is basically just tell us

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about your kind of perfect What's
greatly applauded some of your

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position yeah i like your voice in
Friday.

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there so how we like to connect
with our listener is basically

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just tell us about your kind of
perfect friday what's your day

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look like what gives you some
energy productivity and what do

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you do for fun leading into the
weekend so said you come down to

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city hall on a tuesday to listen
to a public hearing a couple times

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yeah pretty cheap entertainment i
guess i Gotta get a life for it.

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Friday, every day's a Friday in
the Okanagan, but...

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Good answer.

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Enjoy everything as far as this

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time of life, we're what, three
daughters or adults now, we've got

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five grandchildren, so get a
chance to spend as much time with

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them.

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They range from one year to 17

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years of age, so much time I have
a chance to spend with them.

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And often, yeah, we have family
arrangements as far as dinner

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goes, and it looks at have a
Friday evening Shabbat dinner and

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spend time together.

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We have a little different living

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arrangement.

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We sold our place, and phase of

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our life, we decided we're going
to downsize.

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We sold our place in Wilden, and
we're going to move into a

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townhome.

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And some friends said, well, they

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had sold theirs, they're looking
to sell, and we ended up buying a

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place in Hall Road, and we have a
house.

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It's a large house and we have our
own living arrangements.

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And then we share cooking and we
have a family suite.

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So when our kids come from out of
town or guests come, we call it

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God's Lodge and it's open for
answer.

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to stay.

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So we have lots of people come,

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people from different parts of the
world, missionaries and others

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have spent time and family and
friends.

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So we love entertaining, we love
spending time with family and

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friends.

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And that's whenever we can,

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whether it's Friday or Saturday or
whatever day of the week.

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I love that.

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We talk about that quite often,

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00:08:41,900 --> 00:08:45,633
like how funny it would be to have
a bit of a commune and just sell

248
00:08:45,633 --> 00:08:46,822
the houses and get a big acreage.

249
00:08:46,922 --> 00:08:47,388
And yeah.

250
00:08:47,388 --> 00:08:50,077
Who do you talk about that with?
Closer friends than you.

251
00:08:49,977 --> 00:08:51,410
We've never had any commune talk,
David.

252
00:08:51,410 --> 00:08:53,322
We can have to talk to you about
this after.

253
00:08:53,322 --> 00:08:56,840
Yeah, so we had to clarify with
the kids, we don't throw our keys

254
00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,483
in there on Friday and, you know,
the swingers club.

255
00:08:59,483 --> 00:09:02,270
No, it's community living and all
the fact is that it's something

256
00:09:02,370 --> 00:09:04,919
that I talked about for the same
thing, 30 years.

257
00:09:04,919 --> 00:09:07,027
Why don't everybody have 30 of
everything?

258
00:09:06,927 --> 00:09:07,034
Yeah.

259
00:09:07,034 --> 00:09:09,020
So I have a set of drums.

260
00:09:09,140 --> 00:09:14,570
I could have a music room and you
can have a big tv we had it set up

261
00:09:14,564 --> 00:09:17,425
for my partner and living in the
arrangements he's a big hunter so

262
00:09:17,425 --> 00:09:19,869
we got a you know stuffed big bart
eight point elk hanging on the

263
00:09:19,869 --> 00:09:22,772
rafters and deer and the gun racks
and all it's a variety of the best

264
00:09:22,745 --> 00:09:26,512
of everything coming together and
family and i think it's something

265
00:09:26,612 --> 00:09:28,900
that people say yeah it's strange
but i encourage you we've been

266
00:09:28,876 --> 00:09:31,759
living for over a year and it's
been yeah i agree we have so much

267
00:09:31,759 --> 00:09:34,819
stuff right now in life everyone's
got two of everything and you just

268
00:09:34,719 --> 00:09:38,194
don't need it anyways we could
talk about that for quite a while

269
00:09:38,194 --> 00:09:41,208
why don't we jump into what your
current position is as a city

270
00:09:41,208 --> 00:09:43,577
council member how'd you get there
how'd you get there medication

271
00:09:43,577 --> 00:09:46,526
wore off so i ended up on back i
grew up in edmonton and had a

272
00:09:46,526 --> 00:09:49,037
variety of careers i was in sales
with large companies coca-cola

273
00:09:49,037 --> 00:09:52,245
sales supervisor and hershey foods
we had our own grocery store a gas

274
00:09:52,245 --> 00:09:55,315
station in edmonton, managed a
store in Jasper National Park.

275
00:09:55,315 --> 00:09:58,745
End of 89, my mom passed away, and
I played drums in a band.

276
00:09:58,745 --> 00:10:02,976
We played New Year's Eve, and I
woke up New Year's Day, and it was

277
00:10:02,976 --> 00:10:06,386
like 35 below and three feet of
snow, and I figured there's more

278
00:10:06,386 --> 00:10:07,287
to life than this.

279
00:10:07,287 --> 00:10:09,474
We had two children at the time,

280
00:10:09,474 --> 00:10:14,070
and I had a week off, so my wife
and I hopped in the car, came to

281
00:10:14,070 --> 00:10:15,560
Kelowna, and bought a house.

282
00:10:15,560 --> 00:10:16,520
It was under construction.

283
00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:18,920
Bought a new house for $139,000 in
1990 and didn't know anybody.

284
00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:22,413
We didn't have a job or anything
and just started out.

285
00:10:22,413 --> 00:10:26,646
It's been one of the best things
we did in our life.

286
00:10:26,646 --> 00:10:31,122
We have three daughters and five
grandchildren now.

287
00:10:31,122 --> 00:10:32,240
That's been fantastic.

288
00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:34,228
Part of the journey when I got

289
00:10:34,228 --> 00:10:39,544
here, I was working in sales for
both media sales and then Costco

290
00:10:39,544 --> 00:10:43,201
wholesale was their marketing rep
got to know a lot of people and

291
00:10:43,201 --> 00:10:46,536
some people encouraged me to run
for city council in 1996 and

292
00:10:46,536 --> 00:10:49,648
there's 27 candidates and we put a
team together and three daughters

293
00:10:49,648 --> 00:10:51,843
my wife we went door knocking and
fortunately I was elected and then

294
00:10:51,843 --> 00:10:54,501
ran again in 1999 and 2002 and
then the spring of 2003 I got a

295
00:10:54,477 --> 00:10:56,220
phone call from the Federal
Conservative Party said there's a

296
00:10:56,220 --> 00:10:57,780
nomination for the retiring member
of Parliament, Werner Schmidt, and

297
00:10:57,780 --> 00:10:59,364
you have to sell memberships and
get people out.

298
00:10:59,264 --> 00:11:02,400
So May of that year, we had a
nomination meeting and Norm

299
00:11:02,900 --> 00:11:08,353
Letnick, his good friend at the
time, and we went out for a walk

300
00:11:08,353 --> 00:11:10,451
up at Knox Mountain and he wanted
to run.

301
00:11:10,451 --> 00:11:13,248
So he ran and Ben Stewart came in
third, Norm in second.

302
00:11:13,248 --> 00:11:18,355
I was fortunate in the first and
then Norm and Ben spent the rest

303
00:11:18,455 --> 00:11:19,692
of their career.

304
00:11:19,692 --> 00:11:21,714
They did a great job representing

305
00:11:21,614 --> 00:11:23,702
their respective areas in
provincial legislature and I

306
00:11:23,702 --> 00:11:26,777
served for almost 10 years as a
member of parliament.

307
00:11:26,777 --> 00:11:29,479
It was a great chapter in my life
and experience that I would have

308
00:11:29,479 --> 00:11:32,232
never imagined to be part of the
journey of our lives.

309
00:11:32,232 --> 00:11:36,237
You say you wake up one day and
you never know exactly.

310
00:11:36,237 --> 00:11:40,387
And I encourage people that are
wanting to get into community

311
00:11:40,387 --> 00:11:40,652
service.

312
00:11:40,652 --> 00:11:42,242
That's how I was raised.

313
00:11:42,242 --> 00:11:45,491
My youngest of four, my parents
were always engaged and involved

314
00:11:45,491 --> 00:11:46,503
in the community.

315
00:11:46,503 --> 00:11:49,535
So just try to make a difference.

316
00:11:49,535 --> 00:11:53,501
And so what's your current role
right now as people that don't see

317
00:11:53,501 --> 00:11:56,227
behind the scenes in terms of, you
know, what happens in the city?

318
00:11:56,327 --> 00:11:59,123
Are you guys at, you know, town
hall every day?

319
00:11:59,023 --> 00:12:00,918
What does it look like for you?
Yeah.

320
00:12:00,918 --> 00:12:04,097
So basically what I ended up doing
after federal politics is I had my

321
00:12:04,097 --> 00:12:04,669
own consulting company.

322
00:12:04,669 --> 00:12:06,770
And I spent about six years as a

323
00:12:06,670 --> 00:12:07,775
business relationship manager with
Interior Savings.

324
00:12:07,775 --> 00:12:09,725
I still do some commercial
consulting for financing.

325
00:12:09,725 --> 00:12:11,506
And then I work around city
council meeting, which is

326
00:12:11,471 --> 00:12:13,285
generally every Monday in the
summertime, every second Monday.

327
00:12:13,285 --> 00:12:16,554
And then once a month on Tuesdays,
we have a public hearing.

328
00:12:16,554 --> 00:12:18,404
And then there's different
committee meetings during the

329
00:12:18,404 --> 00:12:18,760
week.

330
00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:20,001
Basically, you're on call 24-7

331
00:12:20,001 --> 00:12:23,138
because in public office, I mean,
necessarily you are on in the

332
00:12:23,138 --> 00:12:25,938
sense that whenever you're in
public, if I go to Costco or to

333
00:12:25,938 --> 00:12:29,015
the mall or out to any event,
people will talk to you.

334
00:12:29,015 --> 00:12:33,360
And so my family have grown up
with me being in public office for

335
00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,473
the last close to 20 years of
service.

336
00:12:35,473 --> 00:12:38,380
So used to the fact that, you
know, we're leaving dad in the

337
00:12:38,933 --> 00:12:39,141
car.

338
00:12:39,141 --> 00:12:41,076
We're going to roll down the

339
00:12:41,076 --> 00:12:43,842
window a little bit and you got to
stay in there.

340
00:12:43,842 --> 00:12:45,048
You're not coming out.

341
00:12:44,948 --> 00:12:46,977
You know, they want to go

342
00:12:46,977 --> 00:12:47,529
someplace quickly.

343
00:12:47,629 --> 00:12:49,424
But that's just part of the

344
00:12:49,424 --> 00:12:52,349
reality of when you're working and
serving the community and love to

345
00:12:52,349 --> 00:12:54,852
meet people and hear their
concerns so during the week also

346
00:12:54,852 --> 00:12:57,143
if we get our council meeting
agendas usually wednesday

347
00:12:57,143 --> 00:13:00,169
afternoon so then it gives you an
opportunity for the next few days

348
00:13:00,169 --> 00:13:03,951
over the weekend to connect with
the residents concerns go visit

349
00:13:03,951 --> 00:13:07,391
properties that are being rezoned,
and answer any questions that need

350
00:13:07,391 --> 00:13:10,537
to be answered from staff and
clarification and be ready for the

351
00:13:10,537 --> 00:13:10,647
meeting.

352
00:13:10,747 --> 00:13:12,300
So it's some of the background

353
00:13:12,700 --> 00:13:14,003
work that takes place.

354
00:13:14,003 --> 00:13:17,027
And then, of course, all the

355
00:13:16,927 --> 00:13:18,784
different events you get invited
to.

356
00:13:18,784 --> 00:13:21,609
And we have a schedule right now.

357
00:13:21,609 --> 00:13:22,820
I'm deputy mayor until September,

358
00:13:22,820 --> 00:13:25,741
and then we take turns every six
months.

359
00:13:25,741 --> 00:13:26,411
There's a rotation.

360
00:13:26,411 --> 00:13:26,679
Oh, interesting.

361
00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:27,818
I didn't know Is that like
Interesting.

362
00:13:27,918 --> 00:13:29,292
the majority of council's that.

363
00:13:29,292 --> 00:13:30,054
work right now?

364
00:13:30,054 --> 00:13:32,991
till September and then we take
turns every six months there's a

365
00:13:32,991 --> 00:13:34,726
rotation oh interesting
interesting I didn't know that is

366
00:13:34,726 --> 00:13:37,857
that like the majority of councils
work right now is I guess working

367
00:13:37,857 --> 00:13:39,776
with the OCP that you guys came
out with a couple years ago and

368
00:13:39,776 --> 00:13:40,540
essentially approving or not
approving certain developments or

369
00:13:40,580 --> 00:13:42,763
working with developers or working
with vacancy like what's the main

370
00:13:42,763 --> 00:13:46,073
time consumer for you guys are
creatures of the province.

371
00:13:46,073 --> 00:13:49,560
So I kind of look at the analogy,
the federal government are the

372
00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:52,969
grandparents, the province are the
parents, and local government are

373
00:13:52,969 --> 00:13:53,468
the children.

374
00:13:53,468 --> 00:13:55,880
So we are guided by local

375
00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,460
government, our community charter,
and we look at our limitations.

376
00:13:58,460 --> 00:14:01,570
So we have to follow the direction
of the provincial government and

377
00:14:01,570 --> 00:14:04,410
specifically the most sweeping
changes probably in decades of

378
00:14:04,410 --> 00:14:08,078
land use, Bill 44 and Bill 47,
which upzoned about 26,000

379
00:14:08,078 --> 00:14:10,645
properties in Kelowna, which has
been a tremendous amount of work

380
00:14:10,645 --> 00:14:13,373
for Mr. Ryan Smith, our director
of planning and the city planning

381
00:14:13,373 --> 00:14:13,700
staff.

382
00:14:14,380 --> 00:14:16,069
So they've done as good a job as

383
00:14:16,069 --> 00:14:19,100
possible in the time constraints
that they had to try to address

384
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:20,170
some of the workload.

385
00:14:20,170 --> 00:14:21,913
A lot of communities weren't as

386
00:14:21,913 --> 00:14:24,128
far ahead in Kelowna in their
planning department.

387
00:14:24,028 --> 00:14:24,826
So they have until June 30th to
get these documents in place.

388
00:14:24,782 --> 00:14:24,949
Some have asked for an extension,
but generally for Kelowna, we're

389
00:14:24,905 --> 00:14:24,994
in a good position.

390
00:14:24,952 --> 00:14:25,080
We were leading the way in

391
00:14:25,049 --> 00:14:25,678
densification and infill.

392
00:14:25,678 --> 00:14:27,473
For example, the RU7 zoning that

393
00:14:27,473 --> 00:14:31,873
was in place several years ago
that you have four units per one

394
00:14:31,873 --> 00:14:32,086
lot.

395
00:14:32,086 --> 00:14:33,648
That was a great success and

396
00:14:33,648 --> 00:14:36,701
basically modeled throughout other
areas in the province and was

397
00:14:36,701 --> 00:14:40,863
noted by the Minister of Housing
that's been out here several

398
00:14:40,863 --> 00:14:43,320
times, Ravi Kohon, the Honourable
Minister of Housing.

399
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:47,997
And he said that Kelowna has set
the benchmark in many ways, and

400
00:14:47,997 --> 00:14:50,410
that's accolades to staff for that
as well.

401
00:14:50,410 --> 00:14:52,783
So I guess personal opinion,
because that's what everything is

402
00:14:52,783 --> 00:14:54,762
on this show for you.

403
00:14:54,662 --> 00:14:56,158
Do you feel that the densification

404
00:14:56,258 --> 00:14:59,560
plan that provincially has come
out is the right move?

405
00:14:59,660 --> 00:15:04,332
Personally, no. I understand what
the province is trying to do, but

406
00:15:04,332 --> 00:15:10,198
it's not going to solve the
problem in the sense that we have

407
00:15:10,298 --> 00:15:12,274
an affordability crisis, not just
a housing crisis.

408
00:15:12,274 --> 00:15:17,816
Kelowna is a very desirable place
to live, and we have limited land,

409
00:15:17,816 --> 00:15:21,640
so we can densify all we want, but
the land costs bring into the

410
00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:23,250
equation of the marketability.

411
00:15:23,250 --> 00:15:25,025
For example, when we had those RU7

412
00:15:25,025 --> 00:15:28,630
lots where homes were selling for
$200,000, So you get four homes on

413
00:15:28,630 --> 00:15:31,733
one lot, and it's basically
$50,000 a door for your land

414
00:15:31,733 --> 00:15:32,056
costs.

415
00:15:32,056 --> 00:15:34,441
And then all of a sudden, greater

416
00:15:34,441 --> 00:15:35,924
and greater demand, they've seen
the success.

417
00:15:35,924 --> 00:15:37,954
So people could sell those
originally around $500,000.

418
00:15:37,954 --> 00:15:41,069
But the land costs now went up to
$800,000 to $1 million.

419
00:15:41,069 --> 00:15:43,298
So you're into $200,000 to
$250,000 a door.

420
00:15:43,298 --> 00:15:46,904
And now your extended costs are
retailing for $750,000, $150,000

421
00:15:46,904 --> 00:15:47,990
for a single unit.

422
00:15:47,990 --> 00:15:50,317
So that is one of the issues.

423
00:15:50,317 --> 00:15:53,080
But the bigger issue from a
national perspective is the number

424
00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,722
of immigrants that are coming to
Canada.

425
00:15:55,722 --> 00:15:58,782
Canada is more of basically
immigrants, and we founded on the

426
00:15:58,782 --> 00:16:00,451
nation of hard work of
immigration.

427
00:16:00,551 --> 00:16:04,748
But the numbers need to be more
reflective of the reality of what

428
00:16:04,748 --> 00:16:06,509
we can absorb from a housing
perspective.

429
00:16:06,509 --> 00:16:09,183
And the federal government and
CMHC, which is Canada Mortgage

430
00:16:09,183 --> 00:16:11,402
Housing Corporation, indicated
about 250,000 homes could be built

431
00:16:11,402 --> 00:16:12,382
a year, maybe 240.

432
00:16:12,382 --> 00:16:13,533
The highest number, I believe, was

433
00:16:13,533 --> 00:16:17,456
about 270,000 in the 70s when the
home was a thousand square foot

434
00:16:17,456 --> 00:16:21,130
box kind of thing and less
regulations and all the building

435
00:16:21,130 --> 00:16:21,250
codes.

436
00:16:21,250 --> 00:16:22,518
So right now we're looking at

437
00:16:22,518 --> 00:16:22,941
maybe 250,000.

438
00:16:22,941 --> 00:16:24,691
So there's a limit of how many

439
00:16:24,691 --> 00:16:26,563
human resources so you can
actually build.

440
00:16:26,563 --> 00:16:29,594
So bringing in over a million
people into the country created a

441
00:16:29,694 --> 00:16:33,472
challenge and a huge demand that
we're suffering now across Canada

442
00:16:33,472 --> 00:16:34,541
in many cases.

443
00:16:34,441 --> 00:16:36,912
So we've asked this on the show

444
00:16:36,912 --> 00:16:41,095
quite a few times,, but, like,
who's pushing to have this level

445
00:16:41,095 --> 00:16:44,504
of immigration?
Like, why was there so much

446
00:16:44,404 --> 00:16:46,465
immigration happening?
Everyone you talk to about housing

447
00:16:46,465 --> 00:16:50,065
prices, they always say the reason
why is because there's too much

448
00:16:49,965 --> 00:16:51,300
immigration, not enough housing to
be built.

449
00:16:51,580 --> 00:16:53,035
And it's obvious that's what's
happened.

450
00:16:53,035 --> 00:16:55,643
But who was asking for this many
immigrants to come in?

451
00:16:55,743 --> 00:16:58,531
Like, it feels like even Trudeau
wasn't even asking about this.

452
00:16:58,531 --> 00:17:02,332
It just feels like it just
happened and no one knew why.

453
00:17:02,232 --> 00:17:07,953
Like, what are your opinion on
Well, it's kind of scary if the

454
00:17:07,953 --> 00:17:09,717
prime minister doesn't know why.

455
00:17:09,717 --> 00:17:10,064
I agree.

456
00:17:10,064 --> 00:17:11,041
I I agree.

457
00:17:11,041 --> 00:17:13,092
I with Like, was there like a

458
00:17:13,092 --> 00:17:15,901
group of people, like was there
some sort of like lobbyist that

459
00:17:15,901 --> 00:17:17,994
said we need to have this many
people?

460
00:17:17,994 --> 00:17:21,626
It feels like nobody wanted it and
we ended up with this.

461
00:17:21,626 --> 00:17:23,589
So it's just an odd situation.

462
00:17:23,589 --> 00:17:24,944
Ultimately, all I can speak is,

463
00:17:24,944 --> 00:17:28,939
you know, my experience serving
almost 10 years in Ottawa as a

464
00:17:29,039 --> 00:17:29,752
member of parliament.

465
00:17:29,752 --> 00:17:32,769
We had immigration numbers you

466
00:17:32,769 --> 00:17:36,121
know we're pushing 300 going to
400,000 you know moving that

467
00:17:36,021 --> 00:17:39,771
direction and it was pushing the
envelope and we are obviously a

468
00:17:39,771 --> 00:17:43,292
very desirable country to move to
and we have to balance that we

469
00:17:43,292 --> 00:17:46,937
need the skills the labor to help
our country to sustain its growth

470
00:17:46,937 --> 00:17:49,133
and you know our birth population
numbers are dropping so

471
00:17:49,133 --> 00:17:50,207
immigration needs to fill that.

472
00:17:50,207 --> 00:17:52,238
But we also need the type of

473
00:17:52,238 --> 00:17:52,531
immigration.

474
00:17:52,531 --> 00:17:55,091
My wife's worked for a doctor for

475
00:17:55,091 --> 00:17:59,262
over 25 years and been trying to
help them bring a specialist in

476
00:17:59,262 --> 00:18:02,452
who was trained in Canada and has
not been able to get, you know,

477
00:18:02,552 --> 00:18:03,575
the documentation through Ottawa.

478
00:18:03,575 --> 00:18:04,751
We had a provincial nominee

479
00:18:04,751 --> 00:18:06,604
program approved and all the rest.

480
00:18:06,604 --> 00:18:08,625
So it's very frustrating for

481
00:18:08,625 --> 00:18:10,001
employers that are looking for
proper traits.

482
00:18:09,901 --> 00:18:12,735
So the engineering industry did a
really good job when I was a

483
00:18:12,635 --> 00:18:13,364
member of parliament.

484
00:18:13,364 --> 00:18:14,709
They lobbied and we're able to get

485
00:18:14,709 --> 00:18:16,400
standards recognized north and
south of the border.

486
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,730
So if an engineer is working on a
project in Seattle and they live

487
00:18:19,730 --> 00:18:21,895
in Vancouver, they can go across
the border, north and south.

488
00:18:21,859 --> 00:18:23,940
And now we can have the ability to
east and west.

489
00:18:23,873 --> 00:18:26,327
I mean, if a nurse is practicing
in Ontario, why shouldn't she be

490
00:18:26,327 --> 00:18:28,287
able to practice in BC or doctor?
They have interprovincial

491
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:29,357
regulations.

492
00:18:29,257 --> 00:18:30,399
It's in our own country.

493
00:18:30,399 --> 00:18:32,619
We have interprovincial barriers,
which is something that, you know,

494
00:18:32,619 --> 00:18:33,878
battled with for many years.

495
00:18:33,877 --> 00:18:35,110
We still have, for example, wine.

496
00:18:35,110 --> 00:18:36,377
We can't ship wine from BC to
Ontario.

497
00:18:36,377 --> 00:18:37,100
It's an ongoing saga.

498
00:18:37,260 --> 00:18:37,980
And then immigration, trying to

499
00:18:37,980 --> 00:18:40,007
get different industries, every
profession, whether it's

500
00:18:40,107 --> 00:18:41,294
education, healthcare, throughout
the different standards.

501
00:18:41,294 --> 00:18:44,026
Like a red seal carpenter can work
across Canada, but we don't have a

502
00:18:44,026 --> 00:18:48,269
red seal designation, for example,
a teacher or a nurse, which is

503
00:18:48,269 --> 00:18:50,709
something I think makes a lot of
sense.

504
00:18:50,709 --> 00:18:53,362
I understand from a legal
perspective, because there's

505
00:18:53,362 --> 00:18:55,764
different laws from each province
and territory, but other

506
00:18:55,764 --> 00:18:57,829
professions should be able to
especially move across Canada

507
00:18:57,829 --> 00:18:58,248
freely.

508
00:18:58,248 --> 00:18:58,458
Yeah.

509
00:18:58,458 --> 00:19:02,440
I guess to go back to our topic on
density and what is the solution,

510
00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,660
I guess, and this ties into
immigration since, okay, well, we

511
00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:09,612
can't just hindsight ship a lot of
people out of the country to

512
00:19:09,612 --> 00:19:10,254
reduce our population.

513
00:19:10,254 --> 00:19:11,337
Moving forward, what is the

514
00:19:11,337 --> 00:19:13,061
solution if infill, land
development, everything's kind of

515
00:19:13,061 --> 00:19:14,300
stacked against us?
What are the options?

516
00:19:14,300 --> 00:19:18,744
look at Canada, we do have a
little bit of land here, the

517
00:19:18,744 --> 00:19:20,292
second largest landmass in the
world.

518
00:19:20,292 --> 00:19:24,478
And my daughter and her husband
are RCMP officers in Burns Lake.

519
00:19:24,478 --> 00:19:25,845
She was in Kitimat.

520
00:19:25,845 --> 00:19:28,424
You can buy a nice house there for

521
00:19:28,424 --> 00:19:28,643
$400,000, $450,000.

522
00:19:28,643 --> 00:19:29,851
So if you can work remotely, not

523
00:19:29,851 --> 00:19:32,596
everybody can necessarily live in
the most expensive city in

524
00:19:32,596 --> 00:19:34,504
Vancouver, you know, the Okanagan.

525
00:19:34,504 --> 00:19:35,887
In some cases, you have to start

526
00:19:35,887 --> 00:19:37,956
in a community that is more
realistic and affordable.

527
00:19:37,956 --> 00:19:38,703
So that's one thing.

528
00:19:38,803 --> 00:19:40,837
Like I said, I grew up in

529
00:19:40,737 --> 00:19:41,030
Edmonton.

530
00:19:41,030 --> 00:19:42,615
I bought my first house when I was

531
00:19:42,615 --> 00:19:43,378
20 years old.

532
00:19:43,378 --> 00:19:44,348
And it would be virtually

533
00:19:44,348 --> 00:19:47,235
impossible for any 20-year-old
today to buy a house in Kelowna

534
00:19:47,235 --> 00:19:48,967
unless you inherited a great deal
of money.

535
00:19:48,967 --> 00:19:52,261
So that capitalism at work?
The fact that a house in Burns

536
00:19:52,261 --> 00:19:56,043
Lake is $400,000 and here you
can't even buy a lot for $400,000?

537
00:19:56,143 --> 00:19:58,225
Isn't that kind of the incentive
already there?

538
00:19:58,125 --> 00:20:01,694
What else could the government do
to incentivize people to move to

539
00:20:01,794 --> 00:20:07,530
Burns Lake or to Kinnemat or to
anywhere Well, I think less often

540
00:20:07,530 --> 00:20:12,478
the case is when government gets
involved, it creates the problems.

541
00:20:12,478 --> 00:20:15,265
In some cases, there's too much
regulation and can challenges.

542
00:20:15,265 --> 00:20:18,510
I mean, there's incentives as far
as Northern Living Allowance.

543
00:20:18,510 --> 00:20:21,310
That's only the middle of the
province, so it's central yeah for

544
00:20:21,310 --> 00:20:24,732
many people they love it it's a
four seasons lifestyle that you

545
00:20:24,732 --> 00:20:27,777
choose right so if you're in
prince george or you know in

546
00:20:27,777 --> 00:20:31,358
terrace that neck of the woods
vanderhoof is the geographic

547
00:20:31,358 --> 00:20:34,420
center of the province and there
is good value for your real estate

548
00:20:34,420 --> 00:20:38,260
however it is comes from a
lifestyle perspective and i don't

549
00:20:38,260 --> 00:20:42,700
encourage people i don't want to
make a move out of our city but

550
00:20:42,700 --> 00:20:47,931
the reality is that you're not
going to be able to buy

551
00:20:47,931 --> 00:20:50,731
necessarily your first house out
the gate.

552
00:20:50,731 --> 00:20:54,793
You might be able to buy a starter
condo of some sort and move your

553
00:20:54,793 --> 00:20:57,674
way up working in Kelowna because
we also need service industry

554
00:20:57,674 --> 00:21:00,285
represented and people to work in
the service sector.

555
00:21:00,285 --> 00:21:02,300
So there are the element of
affordability.

556
00:21:02,300 --> 00:21:04,183
And I think from the province,
both provincial and federal

557
00:21:04,183 --> 00:21:06,120
government perspective, the
dilemma that we're facing in

558
00:21:06,180 --> 00:21:09,540
council right now is that we're
knocking down housing units,

559
00:21:09,540 --> 00:21:15,644
multifamily units that have been
built in 40, 50 years ago that

560
00:21:15,544 --> 00:21:17,581
need some TLC, but people are
paying maybe $1,200, $1,400 a

561
00:21:17,581 --> 00:21:21,273
month rent, and they've been
living there for 15, 20 years, and

562
00:21:21,273 --> 00:21:22,721
some are on disability, some are
retired.

563
00:21:22,721 --> 00:21:24,981
So if you knock down that building
to build a new affordable housing

564
00:21:24,981 --> 00:21:28,608
So the new rental units are
$2,200, even if you give them a

565
00:21:28,608 --> 00:21:30,610
discount, like some municipalities
will be 20% first right of

566
00:21:30,610 --> 00:21:30,663
refusal.

567
00:21:30,663 --> 00:21:32,396
So that's where we'd need the

568
00:21:32,396 --> 00:21:35,243
provincial and federal governments
to step in and help that gap in

569
00:21:35,243 --> 00:21:37,532
some cases for specific sectors,
but less reluctant to want to get

570
00:21:37,532 --> 00:21:40,754
too much government interference,
let the market play out.

571
00:21:40,754 --> 00:21:43,409
Knocking down the multi-family,
the affordable multi-family to

572
00:21:43,409 --> 00:21:44,596
build newer affordable
multi-family.

573
00:21:44,596 --> 00:21:46,657
You're talking about the one on
Bernard and Gordon, ones like

574
00:21:46,657 --> 00:21:49,405
that?
one on Mill Street we just did on

575
00:21:49,405 --> 00:21:52,394
Monday, and Mill Street is another
one that we put on hold.

576
00:21:52,494 --> 00:21:52,808
Yeah.

577
00:21:52,708 --> 00:21:54,338
So those are kind of outlier

578
00:21:54,874 --> 00:21:57,243
cases, but the densification of
downtown.

579
00:21:57,243 --> 00:22:01,730
So a big issue with the RU7 issue,
like the infill was that basically

580
00:22:01,630 --> 00:22:03,899
there wasn't enough properties
that were zoned that way.

581
00:22:03,899 --> 00:22:07,027
So it just drove those, what was
it, 900 houses or 800 houses?

582
00:22:07,027 --> 00:22:07,518
You're right.

583
00:22:07,518 --> 00:22:08,499
They completely skyrocketed in

584
00:22:08,499 --> 00:22:11,313
value, but it was almost because
there wasn't enough of them.

585
00:22:11,313 --> 00:22:14,194
But the new provincial regulation
says every lot can have four

586
00:22:14,194 --> 00:22:14,456
units.

587
00:22:14,456 --> 00:22:16,217
Wouldn't that help a little bit

588
00:22:16,217 --> 00:22:18,220
with that?
I mean, over time, we'll see.

589
00:22:18,220 --> 00:22:18,396
Definitely.

590
00:22:18,396 --> 00:22:20,042
I mean, you're going to have some

591
00:22:20,029 --> 00:22:20,557
ability to increase density.

592
00:22:20,545 --> 00:22:21,388
It also depends on, now you're

593
00:22:21,388 --> 00:22:22,278
looking at land assemblies.

594
00:22:22,278 --> 00:22:23,343
Now people are doing more and more

595
00:22:23,343 --> 00:22:24,182
land assemblies.

596
00:22:24,182 --> 00:22:25,456
And when people have expectations

597
00:22:25,356 --> 00:22:27,705
of their property value, then the
developer has to get so many units

598
00:22:27,705 --> 00:22:29,355
per acre in order to make it
viable.

599
00:22:29,355 --> 00:22:33,864
So I understand from the property
owner, they have a right to

600
00:22:33,864 --> 00:22:34,916
redevelop if they want.

601
00:22:35,016 --> 00:22:36,743
And it's also don't want to hold

602
00:22:36,843 --> 00:22:37,877
that against them.

603
00:22:37,877 --> 00:22:40,358
The fact that they're want to

604
00:22:40,358 --> 00:22:43,280
build something that's improving
for the community, but we also

605
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,193
have to balance that with the
realistic needs.

606
00:22:45,193 --> 00:22:49,597
So if you're kicking 20 families
out of their home, they get $1,200

607
00:22:49,497 --> 00:22:53,665
one month's rent for moving and
where do we move into the rail

608
00:22:53,765 --> 00:22:55,909
trail and have more homeless
people?

609
00:22:55,809 --> 00:22:59,375
I I mean, expectation is a massive
word that I think is overlooked

610
00:22:59,375 --> 00:23:01,491
with a lot of people these days.

611
00:23:01,491 --> 00:23:03,620
And it ties into a lot of that

612
00:23:03,620 --> 00:23:06,953
conversation is, okay, yeah, we
have the expectation that everyone

613
00:23:07,053 --> 00:23:10,953
should be able to live in Kelowna
and it should be affordable, but

614
00:23:10,953 --> 00:23:14,115
maybe it's just never going to be
an affordable city.

615
00:23:14,115 --> 00:23:17,479
It's kind of like the Vancouver,
Toronto, New York, Shanghai, it's

616
00:23:17,479 --> 00:23:18,824
just going to be more expensive.

617
00:23:18,824 --> 00:23:20,910
And then the expectation to kind

618
00:23:20,910 --> 00:23:25,620
of tie into the land assembly part
is, yeah, I think I kind of agree

619
00:23:25,900 --> 00:23:26,466
with you, Ron.

620
00:23:26,566 --> 00:23:28,412
I don't know if you've really

621
00:23:28,412 --> 00:23:34,453
stated a huge opinion on it, but I
don't know if the policy is

622
00:23:34,453 --> 00:23:36,704
entirely correct for densification
because we're taking away single

623
00:23:36,704 --> 00:23:38,754
family homes that are essentially
bridging the gap between say the

624
00:23:38,736 --> 00:23:41,205
condo market and the more like
higher end single family luxury

625
00:23:41,205 --> 00:23:41,679
homes.

626
00:23:41,779 --> 00:23:44,120
We're never going to rebuild a

627
00:23:44,340 --> 00:23:45,125
$800,000 single family home.

628
00:23:45,125 --> 00:23:47,194
So we're going to tear all those

629
00:23:47,194 --> 00:23:48,692
down and build apartment
buildings.

630
00:23:48,692 --> 00:23:51,804
Yeah, it creates more units on the
market that are affordable, but

631
00:23:51,804 --> 00:23:56,610
then how do those people move from
say a condo to a now single family

632
00:23:56,610 --> 00:23:59,124
house if we're not building any
more 800,000 other single family

633
00:23:59,124 --> 00:23:59,420
homes?
Yeah.

634
00:23:59,420 --> 00:24:03,682
So I think expectation is the big
one of where do people want to

635
00:24:03,682 --> 00:24:04,897
live?
Are we just building affordable

636
00:24:04,882 --> 00:24:06,920
units that people don't at the end
of the day want.

637
00:24:07,020 --> 00:24:09,978
But I guess if it's purpose-built
rental and we need that

638
00:24:09,978 --> 00:24:14,027
accommodation to provide so people
can come here and work, that's a

639
00:24:14,027 --> 00:24:14,965
good start.

640
00:24:14,965 --> 00:24:16,556
But I guess where do we bridge

641
00:24:16,556 --> 00:24:20,179
that gap?
How do we allow people to meet

642
00:24:20,179 --> 00:24:22,763
their expectations, I It's a great
summary.

643
00:24:22,763 --> 00:24:25,336
And the fact is there's no silver
bullet and it's not an easy

644
00:24:25,436 --> 00:24:25,906
solution.

645
00:24:25,806 --> 00:24:28,121
And the fact that yes, we do need

646
00:24:28,121 --> 00:24:29,757
purpose-built rental housing and
that's basically what's being

647
00:24:29,757 --> 00:24:30,824
built right now.

648
00:24:30,824 --> 00:24:32,150
And if it wasn't for rental

649
00:24:32,150 --> 00:24:34,122
market, there wouldn't be a lot of
construction.

650
00:24:34,122 --> 00:24:37,153
There's some projects that have
been approved from previous lower

651
00:24:37,153 --> 00:24:37,516
interest rates.

652
00:24:37,516 --> 00:24:39,774
It takes two to three years to

653
00:24:39,874 --> 00:24:41,527
build some of these projects out.

654
00:24:41,527 --> 00:24:43,475
But specifically to meet the needs

655
00:24:43,475 --> 00:24:45,054
of our community, you're right.

656
00:24:45,054 --> 00:24:46,586
There is that challenge as far as

657
00:24:46,586 --> 00:24:47,550
what are people's expectations.

658
00:24:47,550 --> 00:24:49,177
You said $800,000 for a single

659
00:24:50,100 --> 00:24:51,290
family, no, it won't happen.

660
00:24:51,290 --> 00:24:53,254
Now you might have $800,000 for a

661
00:24:53,254 --> 00:24:54,504
two-bedroom condo or something,
right, or townhome.

662
00:24:54,604 --> 00:24:55,746
That's the dynamics of a changing
city.

663
00:24:55,746 --> 00:24:59,785
And one of my challenges, I got
elected in October of 2022 and

664
00:24:59,785 --> 00:25:01,526
inherited an official community
plan that had significant

665
00:25:01,526 --> 00:25:03,879
densification and hasn't been
reviewed since Bill 44 and Bill

666
00:25:03,879 --> 00:25:04,098
47.

667
00:25:04,098 --> 00:25:05,894
I would like to see that change

668
00:25:05,794 --> 00:25:08,248
because I don't agree with the
direction of the official

669
00:25:08,148 --> 00:25:09,338
community plan.

670
00:25:09,338 --> 00:25:11,312
I think it's changing the whole

671
00:25:11,212 --> 00:25:12,670
character of our community.

672
00:25:12,670 --> 00:25:13,712
The growth is pace and

673
00:25:13,712 --> 00:25:13,920
densification.

674
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:15,510
I don't believe our roads and

675
00:25:15,510 --> 00:25:16,591
infrastructure can handle our
healthcare system.

676
00:25:16,591 --> 00:25:17,735
Hospitals at 120% of capacity.

677
00:25:17,735 --> 00:25:19,559
There's no plans to expand the

678
00:25:19,559 --> 00:25:19,947
hospital.

679
00:25:19,947 --> 00:25:21,984
Our school systems are bursting at

680
00:25:21,984 --> 00:25:22,566
the seams.

681
00:25:22,566 --> 00:25:26,641
The province is going to be making

682
00:25:26,641 --> 00:25:29,714
some announcements for some
schools, but it takes several

683
00:25:29,714 --> 00:25:31,177
years for that.

684
00:25:31,177 --> 00:25:33,148
And, of course, the big issue with

685
00:25:33,148 --> 00:25:35,016
mental health and homelessness, we
need 24-7 treatment.

686
00:25:35,016 --> 00:25:37,783
I've spoken with the Minister of
Housing, Minister of Mental

687
00:25:37,783 --> 00:25:40,498
Health, Minister of Finance,
Interior Health, and they all say,

688
00:25:40,498 --> 00:25:41,255
well, housing first.

689
00:25:41,255 --> 00:25:42,960
I said, that's great.

690
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:47,097
I've had the honour of being part
of the government in 2008.

691
00:25:46,997 --> 00:25:49,466
Federally, we introduced Shea-Swa
Housing First, but you need the

692
00:25:49,466 --> 00:25:50,617
24-7 mental health treatment, the
wraparound services.

693
00:25:50,617 --> 00:25:53,598
And they say, oh yeah, we know
there's gaps in the system.

694
00:25:53,598 --> 00:25:57,036
So what do they do?
They provide safe supplies, safe

695
00:25:57,036 --> 00:25:59,459
consumption sites, safe shelter
spaces, but they ignore what we

696
00:25:59,459 --> 00:26:02,322
really need is we need the mental
health treatment.

697
00:26:02,322 --> 00:26:03,512
We close Riverview down and other
facilities.

698
00:26:03,512 --> 00:26:05,033
We don't want to use the word
institution.

699
00:26:05,033 --> 00:26:09,133
Let's call it a campus of care for
you're looked after 24-7.

700
00:26:09,133 --> 00:26:11,671
And some people need to be
incarcerated or be detained for

701
00:26:11,671 --> 00:26:13,546
the rest of their life because of
mental illness.

702
00:26:13,546 --> 00:26:14,840
And that's the reality of the
situation.

703
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,091
Because I know I had a brother
that was bipolar and he died house

704
00:26:18,091 --> 00:26:19,235
fire in age of 50.

705
00:26:19,235 --> 00:26:20,795
And I had another brother just

706
00:26:20,795 --> 00:26:25,062
died a couple years ago at 64 of
cocaine fentanyl so i've lived it

707
00:26:25,062 --> 00:26:27,756
and i understand i've talked with
so many professionals that they're

708
00:26:27,856 --> 00:26:30,060
frustrated medical professionals
with interior health that have a

709
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,020
bureaucratic perspective to a
clinical solution and we have

710
00:26:33,020 --> 00:26:36,183
waiting and probably the best
summary i had was somebody said to

711
00:26:36,183 --> 00:26:39,830
me that what they're doing is
putting a bandage on a broken yeah

712
00:26:39,830 --> 00:26:43,406
yeah so you brought up the ocp and
so i have a question about this

713
00:26:43,406 --> 00:26:46,771
ocp is like the previous council
and mayor like basran and company

714
00:26:46,771 --> 00:26:50,784
had worked on this ocp and then it
feels like it got approved and

715
00:26:50,784 --> 00:26:54,235
then there was immediate election
and there was a new council and

716
00:26:54,235 --> 00:26:58,800
then now you guys have to deal
with the ocp like why is it like

717
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,617
that right that just seemed weird
from somebody that doesn't know

718
00:27:03,617 --> 00:27:07,523
like very green and this like why
was it like that is that how you

719
00:27:07,523 --> 00:27:09,159
think it should be?
no, I mean, official committee

720
00:27:09,159 --> 00:27:10,938
plans get updated and their
guidelines, their living,

721
00:27:10,938 --> 00:27:11,668
breathing documents.

722
00:27:11,668 --> 00:27:13,794
And they're supposed to be, you

723
00:27:13,794 --> 00:27:17,416
know, sort of overview or a
guiding document to be updated,

724
00:27:17,416 --> 00:27:20,400
you know, every five or 10 years.

725
00:27:20,300 --> 00:27:22,032
And that's the challenge because

726
00:27:21,932 --> 00:27:24,259
it happens in between elections,
specifically because of the

727
00:27:24,259 --> 00:27:27,188
legislation that was probably the
most draconian in my mind.

728
00:27:27,188 --> 00:27:29,684
In 20 plus years, I've been around
local government and working in

729
00:27:29,684 --> 00:27:29,780
government.

730
00:27:29,780 --> 00:27:30,596
It's provincial government's

731
00:27:30,596 --> 00:27:30,980
densification plan.

732
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:32,986
And our OCP has never been really

733
00:27:32,986 --> 00:27:35,007
reviewed to see the implications.

734
00:27:35,007 --> 00:27:36,879
For example, on Lakeshore Road

735
00:27:36,879 --> 00:27:40,274
from KLO to El Dorado Hotel, the
2040 plan, so that's the official

736
00:27:40,174 --> 00:27:42,520
committee plan, was supposed to
have just over 1,000 units

737
00:27:42,620 --> 00:27:44,675
developed in that corridor by
2040, so another 16 years to go.

738
00:27:44,672 --> 00:27:46,350
And we've already surpassed that
to about 135%.

739
00:27:46,350 --> 00:27:49,889
And we got Shasta Mobile Home Park
probably going to redevelop one

740
00:27:49,989 --> 00:27:50,571
day.

741
00:27:50,471 --> 00:27:52,492
We have the former radio station

742
00:27:52,392 --> 00:27:53,548
site in Cook and Gordon.

743
00:27:53,548 --> 00:27:54,495
They've got an application.

744
00:27:54,395 --> 00:27:57,112
We have the former radio station
site in Cook and day.

745
00:27:57,112 --> 00:27:58,735
They've got an application.

746
00:27:58,835 --> 00:27:59,241
Gordon.

747
00:27:59,141 --> 00:28:00,127
They're looking at six-story.

748
00:28:00,127 --> 00:28:01,286
We have across from Gyro Beach.

749
00:28:01,286 --> 00:28:03,908
Now they're putting in four to
six-story buildings across on the

750
00:28:04,008 --> 00:28:05,377
east side of Lakeshore with a
two-lane road.

751
00:28:05,377 --> 00:28:08,596
To it me, boggles my mind why
we're pursuing this direction when

752
00:28:08,596 --> 00:28:11,235
we've got 1,400, 1,500 units
already approved with really, like

753
00:28:11,235 --> 00:28:13,430
I said, the infrast
infrastructures you have a

754
00:28:13,430 --> 00:28:16,846
bottleneck and you're filling up a
bottle of water you can only put

755
00:28:16,846 --> 00:28:20,710
so much water in it can only go in
so fast and it just overflows yeah

756
00:28:20,710 --> 00:28:22,836
on that road is awesome it's
called lakeshore crawl for a

757
00:28:22,836 --> 00:28:26,109
reason i guess no i like although
we love the growth of the city and

758
00:28:26,109 --> 00:28:29,545
what comes with it it also has a
negative implication and so i

759
00:28:29,545 --> 00:28:32,810
guess with said, are there plans
to focus more on infrastructure,

760
00:28:32,810 --> 00:28:35,656
medical, school systems, mental
health, like all the very needed

761
00:28:35,656 --> 00:28:36,944
topics that you discussed?
Absolutely.

762
00:28:36,944 --> 00:28:38,540
I mean, I'm not against growth
either.

763
00:28:38,540 --> 00:28:41,383
I look at what makes sense for a
community and the quality of life.

764
00:28:41,383 --> 00:28:44,128
What I'm hearing from people is
that the quality of life is going

765
00:28:44,128 --> 00:28:44,421
down.

766
00:28:44,421 --> 00:28:45,742
Growth can be positive.

767
00:28:45,742 --> 00:28:49,265
There's lots of upside in the
sense you have an increased tax

768
00:28:49,265 --> 00:28:49,779
base.

769
00:28:49,779 --> 00:28:51,037
That's a whole other issue.

770
00:28:51,037 --> 00:28:53,438
And our taxes are going up higher
than the cost of which is

771
00:28:53,438 --> 00:28:54,900
something I've been battling with.

772
00:28:54,900 --> 00:28:56,068
living, And I think we need to

773
00:28:56,068 --> 00:28:57,437
rein in our spending and be smart
with that.

774
00:28:57,432 --> 00:28:58,405
And in put the money into
infrastructure.

775
00:28:58,405 --> 00:29:01,038
turn, For the example, Central
Okanagan Bypass or Highway 33

776
00:29:01,038 --> 00:29:01,270
extension.

777
00:29:01,270 --> 00:29:02,780
That was back when I was council

778
00:29:02,780 --> 00:29:03,128
in 1996.

779
00:29:03,128 --> 00:29:04,259
They had talked about that thing.

780
00:29:04,259 --> 00:29:07,372
And that road was put in the
official committee plan and the

781
00:29:07,372 --> 00:29:10,954
10-year capital plan and it's been
removed now we don't have it in

782
00:29:10,854 --> 00:29:13,880
the 10-year capital plan yet but
there's been funding from the

783
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,141
province and the city is
partnering to do a new design so

784
00:29:17,141 --> 00:29:21,114
hopefully it'll be in the 10-year
capital plan this year and in

785
00:29:21,114 --> 00:29:25,250
review but that means it can be
built within the next 10 years,

786
00:29:25,250 --> 00:29:26,547
right?
That's the extension from Clement

787
00:29:26,547 --> 00:29:28,687
all the way to Highway 33.

788
00:29:28,687 --> 00:29:31,920
And it could be, obviously, a

789
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,677
parallel project with Hardy Yards,
which is a transit yard, and

790
00:29:34,677 --> 00:29:39,673
there's going to be a new transit
station going out by UBC Okanagan.

791
00:29:39,673 --> 00:29:43,576
And the timeline is hoping 2029,
2030, somewhere around there.

792
00:29:43,576 --> 00:29:46,885
So that would sort of dovetail
with the extension of Highway 33.

793
00:29:46,885 --> 00:29:49,860
And in turn, we would have
ultimately direct corridor.

794
00:29:49,860 --> 00:29:53,680
We're trying to get more efficient
and reliable transit system.

795
00:29:53,780 --> 00:29:56,330
We need more buses for that.

796
00:29:56,330 --> 00:29:58,026
Answer your question.

797
00:29:58,026 --> 00:30:01,518
Yeah, there's money being put into
infrastructure, but it takes time

798
00:30:01,518 --> 00:30:04,840
and the growth goes faster than
filling up the jar at the other

799
00:30:04,684 --> 00:30:04,840
end with the infrastructure needs.

800
00:30:04,744 --> 00:30:04,840
So that's one of the downfalls of

801
00:30:04,811 --> 00:30:11,904
not having the infrastructure in
place in a timely manner.

802
00:30:11,899 --> 00:30:13,958
I hindsight's like a pretty easy
thing to look at, but this might

803
00:30:13,954 --> 00:30:15,160
be a difficult question, even
though using hindsight, is there

804
00:30:15,260 --> 00:30:17,593
something in the last, you know,
20 years that you've seen in

805
00:30:17,593 --> 00:30:21,220
Kelowna that you would have
changed in terms of anything,

806
00:30:21,220 --> 00:30:23,784
policy, OCP, infrastructure?
Like, is there one thing that you

807
00:30:23,784 --> 00:30:25,908
think, hey, we really missed out
here five years ago.

808
00:30:25,908 --> 00:30:27,807
We should have done this, took a
left when we went right.

809
00:30:27,807 --> 00:30:30,358
In all fairness, I wasn't on
council at the time, but I know

810
00:30:30,358 --> 00:30:33,022
that, like I said, that Central
Okanagan bypass, we had

811
00:30:33,022 --> 00:30:35,840
opportunities to get funding from
federal and provincial government,

812
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,749
and government of the day decided
not to put that road through.

813
00:30:38,749 --> 00:30:41,717
And if you're going to continue to
add people, the expectation was

814
00:30:41,717 --> 00:30:43,408
they're going to ride the bus.

815
00:30:43,408 --> 00:30:46,863
Well, it's a false expectation

816
00:30:46,763 --> 00:30:50,490
when you don't have a transit
service that has the ability to

817
00:30:50,490 --> 00:30:52,256
service the needs.

818
00:30:52,156 --> 00:30:53,816
For example, I lived up in Wilden

819
00:30:53,716 --> 00:30:55,520
and Magic States for several
years, and there's no buses that

820
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:56,176
go up Clifton.

821
00:30:56,276 --> 00:30:57,761
But look at the densification up

822
00:30:57,761 --> 00:30:59,073
Clifton Road, right?
So they're working towards that.

823
00:30:59,073 --> 00:31:02,125
Needless to say, yeah, I mean,
better infrastructure needs.

824
00:31:02,125 --> 00:31:04,673
and then we're planning for
expansion you know water and sewer

825
00:31:04,673 --> 00:31:10,080
i think they've managed that very
well we've expanded into the

826
00:31:10,033 --> 00:31:10,100
southeast colonna the south
okanagan mission irrigation

827
00:31:10,056 --> 00:31:10,100
district and now just recently
glenmore allison irrigation

828
00:31:10,095 --> 00:31:13,160
district so there's a good synergy
working there and i know we work

829
00:31:13,146 --> 00:31:15,623
well with black mountain
irrigation district and rutland

830
00:31:15,605 --> 00:31:19,352
irrigation district there's some
great waters purveyors there so i

831
00:31:19,170 --> 00:31:22,206
think from a utility working there
and I know we work well with Black

832
00:31:22,181 --> 00:31:23,600
Mountain Irrigation District and
Rutland Irrigation District

833
00:31:23,504 --> 00:31:25,968
there's some great waters
purveyors there so I think from a

834
00:31:25,968 --> 00:31:27,992
utility perspective they're in
shape but the biggest thing would

835
00:31:27,992 --> 00:31:29,585
be the roads and planning and it's
difficult because of our

836
00:31:29,585 --> 00:31:32,828
topography right we have the lake
and the mountains and it's not

837
00:31:32,828 --> 00:31:35,229
like the prairies where they just
sprawl out another ring road.

838
00:31:35,229 --> 00:31:38,266
Oh it's a direction to throw a
road there.

839
00:31:38,266 --> 00:31:38,594
Exactly.

840
00:31:38,594 --> 00:31:40,616
I know that we don't have that

841
00:31:40,616 --> 00:31:42,771
much time left, so I want to talk
about short-term rentals.

842
00:31:42,671 --> 00:31:45,538
So what has been your experience
so far with the new short-term

843
00:31:45,538 --> 00:31:49,737
rentals, and what's the biggest
issue that you've been dealing

844
00:31:49,737 --> 00:31:52,242
with with that?
I personally, once again, didn't

845
00:31:52,242 --> 00:31:53,783
support the provincial
government's direction in the

846
00:31:53,783 --> 00:31:56,748
sense that, you know, coming from
senior levels of government, I

847
00:31:56,748 --> 00:32:00,540
know often they need to be seen as
doing something.

848
00:32:00,660 --> 00:32:03,450
And so sometimes there's
unintended consequences to their

849
00:32:03,450 --> 00:32:03,738
action.

850
00:32:03,738 --> 00:32:06,047
And the province figured there's

851
00:32:06,047 --> 00:32:09,072
16,000 properties approximately
being rented out in short-term

852
00:32:09,172 --> 00:32:13,120
rentals by putting the hammer and
not allowing this policy to

853
00:32:13,220 --> 00:32:14,812
continue on in the way it is.

854
00:32:14,712 --> 00:32:16,358
They figure there's going to

855
00:32:16,358 --> 00:32:19,500
increase the number of units that
are on the market for long-term

856
00:32:19,500 --> 00:32:19,884
rentals.

857
00:32:19,884 --> 00:32:21,868
And to a degree, there might be a

858
00:32:21,868 --> 00:32:22,380
few more.

859
00:32:22,380 --> 00:32:24,580
Reality is that a lot of these

860
00:32:24,580 --> 00:32:27,185
properties, people weren't going
to be renting out for long-term

861
00:32:27,185 --> 00:32:29,742
because they've kept them for
family and have the flexibility of

862
00:32:29,740 --> 00:32:30,229
renting short-term.

863
00:32:30,221 --> 00:32:31,470
One of the big issues is our

864
00:32:31,470 --> 00:32:32,047
rental tenancy act.

865
00:32:32,147 --> 00:32:33,985
I'm grateful for people that are

866
00:32:33,985 --> 00:32:37,188
landlords in this province, but I
hear so many horror stories as

867
00:32:37,188 --> 00:32:37,450
landlords.

868
00:32:37,450 --> 00:32:39,198
And there are lots of good

869
00:32:39,198 --> 00:32:44,140
tenants, there are some that have
used the system so being a tourism

870
00:32:44,140 --> 00:32:46,659
community with you know 2.4
million I'm grateful for a year

871
00:32:46,659 --> 00:32:49,291
and we look at the economic impact
my concern is what's it going to

872
00:32:49,291 --> 00:32:52,052
do for tourism and i now just had
my first meeting as a director of

873
00:32:52,052 --> 00:32:55,794
the tourism board and they brought
that up as far as you know the

874
00:32:55,794 --> 00:32:56,518
concern of purpose-built
properties.

875
00:32:56,518 --> 00:33:00,828
Like on Lakeshore, there was the
shore and the Plate of Sol and

876
00:33:00,828 --> 00:33:04,057
other properties, even on things
that were designed, people bought

877
00:33:04,057 --> 00:33:04,951
them with understanding.

878
00:33:05,051 --> 00:33:07,426
They played by the rules, paid

879
00:33:07,426 --> 00:33:08,320
their taxes, and everything's
fair.

880
00:33:08,500 --> 00:33:10,555
In stroke of a pen, they had those
rights removed.

881
00:33:10,555 --> 00:33:12,658
And personally, I didn't think
that was proper or ethically

882
00:33:12,658 --> 00:33:12,812
correct.

883
00:33:12,812 --> 00:33:14,240
I mean, government can do it, but

884
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,387
I didn't think it's a good move,
and I still don't think it's a

885
00:33:17,387 --> 00:33:17,920
good move.

886
00:33:17,980 --> 00:33:20,096
And we'll see how it unfolds over

887
00:33:20,196 --> 00:33:20,507
time.

888
00:33:20,407 --> 00:33:22,312
Because the other thing I'm

889
00:33:22,312 --> 00:33:26,078
hearing from students is that they
were renting the home for eight

890
00:33:26,078 --> 00:33:28,925
months, and then the property
owner rented out for four months

891
00:33:28,925 --> 00:33:29,680
as an Airbnb.

892
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,830
And now they can't do that.

893
00:33:31,830 --> 00:33:36,492
So they want the students to rent
it for a year and the student

894
00:33:36,492 --> 00:33:37,783
can't afford it.

895
00:33:37,783 --> 00:33:39,355
So we've lost the student

896
00:33:39,355 --> 00:33:41,444
accommodation and we've lost the
student accommodation and we've

897
00:33:41,444 --> 00:33:44,207
lost summer accommodation and some
unintended consequences I'm

898
00:33:44,207 --> 00:33:44,672
hearing from the community.

899
00:33:44,505 --> 00:33:44,798
That honestly, it sounds like

900
00:33:44,636 --> 00:33:44,842
we're like not a college town, but
we kind of are.

901
00:33:44,805 --> 00:33:45,051
Like we have a beautiful
university.

902
00:33:44,868 --> 00:33:45,100
We're a summer town.

903
00:33:44,982 --> 00:33:46,311
It feels like it would be a

904
00:33:46,311 --> 00:33:48,669
perfect place to do exactly what
you just said.

905
00:33:48,669 --> 00:33:51,661
Where you have all these units
that rent to students over the,

906
00:33:51,661 --> 00:33:54,026
obviously the school year and then
rent to people vacationing in the

907
00:33:54,026 --> 00:33:54,518
summer.

908
00:33:54,518 --> 00:33:55,700
I don't know why we could never

909
00:33:55,700 --> 00:33:58,983
figure out how to make that work,
but it seemed like just a match

910
00:33:58,983 --> 00:33:59,835
made in heaven there.

911
00:33:59,835 --> 00:34:01,085
Do you feel after the provincial

912
00:34:01,185 --> 00:34:04,088
election that potentially that
might change?

913
00:34:04,059 --> 00:34:05,358
Like, how fast could there be an
exemption?

914
00:34:05,258 --> 00:34:08,404
Like, or are we kind of stuck with
this now and we really have to

915
00:34:08,404 --> 00:34:10,433
reach that vacancy rate of 3%?
Conservatively speaking, I think

916
00:34:10,433 --> 00:34:10,916
it Okay.

917
00:34:10,916 --> 00:34:12,172
If the Conservatives get in.

918
00:34:12,172 --> 00:34:16,693
Or do you honestly think they
would change that if they got in

919
00:34:16,693 --> 00:34:17,351
the Conservatives?
Yeah.

920
00:34:17,351 --> 00:34:19,567
And the BC United Party have
indicated as well.

921
00:34:19,567 --> 00:34:21,543
My concern is the split in the
votes.

922
00:34:21,543 --> 00:34:24,070
So they're trying to, you know,
we've heard about what's

923
00:34:24,070 --> 00:34:24,663
happening.

924
00:34:24,663 --> 00:34:27,696
But I think there's going to be

925
00:34:27,696 --> 00:34:31,889
enough pushback from other
communities, even if the NDP do

926
00:34:31,889 --> 00:34:34,556
get in, that they're going to have
to revisit this.

927
00:34:34,556 --> 00:34:36,594
And the minister said they will.

928
00:34:36,594 --> 00:34:37,708
But I'm very concerned with the

929
00:34:37,609 --> 00:34:40,775
future of when a government, you
know, does things like that.

930
00:34:40,775 --> 00:34:43,027
Because as an investor, as a
homeowner, they've done it to one

931
00:34:43,127 --> 00:34:44,987
person who said they can't do it
to another.

932
00:34:44,987 --> 00:34:47,985
And one thing we want is certainty
and predictability in government.

933
00:34:47,985 --> 00:34:50,123
And that's what we don't have
right now.

934
00:34:50,123 --> 00:34:51,369
know, Yeah, I agree.

935
00:34:51,369 --> 00:34:54,620
I feel the damage has kind of been

936
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:56,748
done from a confidence level and a
financial level at this point.

937
00:34:56,748 --> 00:34:59,120
It's going to be pretty tough to
recover from that.

938
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,362
And like you said, for tourism
here, you know, not only has

939
00:35:02,362 --> 00:35:05,550
Airbnb been kind of crashed, COVID
obviously really hurt our city,

940
00:35:05,550 --> 00:35:06,716
the wineries, the fires.

941
00:35:06,716 --> 00:35:08,971
Yeah, we're just, you know, for

942
00:35:08,971 --> 00:35:11,495
small businesses that are relying
on tourism and everyone else that

943
00:35:11,495 --> 00:35:14,684
is relying on tourism, hopefully
we're getting through this fairly

944
00:35:14,684 --> 00:35:17,240
I'm just going to say that the
plus side, I mean, clamping down

945
00:35:17,240 --> 00:35:19,744
on, there were some people that
abused the situation for

946
00:35:19,744 --> 00:35:21,020
short-term rental, especially in
residential areas.

947
00:35:21,020 --> 00:35:24,753
And, you know, there was people
from out of town, out of province,

948
00:35:24,853 --> 00:35:27,753
renting out homes for, you know,
eight guys come golfing for a

949
00:35:27,753 --> 00:35:28,087
week.

950
00:35:28,087 --> 00:35:29,848
week had one situation where

951
00:35:29,848 --> 00:35:33,006
apparently eight ladies were
renting a place and all they had

952
00:35:33,006 --> 00:35:35,648
was one visitor a guy that was
helping do the barbecuing all he's

953
00:35:35,748 --> 00:35:40,077
wearing is an apron you know
living next door to a family home

954
00:35:40,077 --> 00:35:43,413
you know where were you that week
i was wearing more than that ron

955
00:35:43,409 --> 00:35:46,050
on i wasn't sure i just didn't
want to no i agree like there had

956
00:35:46,150 --> 00:35:48,542
to be something happened and it's
hard to police when there's so

957
00:35:48,542 --> 00:35:51,763
much vagueness but honestly the
rule that just made all the sense

958
00:35:51,763 --> 00:35:55,819
in the world is when they said you
have to post your business license

959
00:35:55,819 --> 00:35:59,160
on the airbnb listing like that
just obviously makes a lot of

960
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,122
sense it just makes everyone
comply overnight i feel like that

961
00:36:01,122 --> 00:36:04,239
rule alone could have done a lot
to help the situation right and i

962
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,856
i think in fairness the cities was
trying to get Airbnb to more

963
00:36:06,856 --> 00:36:09,337
cooperative and didn't get the
cooperation.

964
00:36:09,337 --> 00:36:13,996
So pendulum swung a little maybe
too far and we need to bring it

965
00:36:13,996 --> 00:36:14,773
back into balance.

966
00:36:14,773 --> 00:36:15,320
But you're right.

967
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,420
There are other ways of trying to
control it, regulate it.

968
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:19,444
So it makes sense.

969
00:36:19,444 --> 00:36:20,763
And I'm confident that it'll work

970
00:36:20,763 --> 00:36:22,880
out over time, but it's going to
be a little rough year maybe

971
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:23,080
ahead.

972
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:24,783
get I still think, and I've said

973
00:36:24,783 --> 00:36:26,860
this before, I mean, Matt and I
are terribly bad with technology,

974
00:36:27,260 --> 00:36:28,409
but Kelowna should hire a really
good coder.

975
00:36:28,409 --> 00:36:30,340
You guys should make your own
software and run your own Kelowna

976
00:36:30,340 --> 00:36:31,503
Airbnb, make a ton of money.

977
00:36:31,503 --> 00:36:33,245
We could reduce taxes and life

978
00:36:33,245 --> 00:36:34,805
would be amazing.

979
00:36:34,805 --> 00:36:36,224
It's that easy.

980
00:36:36,224 --> 00:36:39,703
You go one of those pitch programs
with Accelerate Okanagan, right?

981
00:36:39,603 --> 00:36:40,339
That is a good Yeah.

982
00:36:40,339 --> 00:36:40,622
Yeah.

983
00:36:40,622 --> 00:36:41,075
That's right.

984
00:36:41,075 --> 00:36:42,491
But I mean, the Airbnb fees, the

985
00:36:42,491 --> 00:36:44,040
everything taxes, is very And
expensive.

986
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,710
the Airbnb mean, the taxes, fees,
everything is very expensive.

987
00:36:47,710 --> 00:36:49,355
And then in addition to that, you
guys obviously can't collaborate

988
00:36:49,355 --> 00:36:50,010
with Airbnb or VRBO or whatever.

989
00:36:50,010 --> 00:36:53,472
But if it was literally just a

990
00:36:53,472 --> 00:36:56,320
Okanagan based software company
and it was purely you had to be

991
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,095
listed on there to get approved,
I'm sure there's more complexities

992
00:36:59,095 --> 00:37:01,253
than I'm making this out to be.

993
00:37:01,253 --> 00:37:02,361
yeah, there's one option.

994
00:37:02,361 --> 00:37:03,753
You never know.

995
00:37:03,653 --> 00:37:04,392
That's entrepreneurial mindset you

996
00:37:04,392 --> 00:37:04,515
have.

997
00:37:04,515 --> 00:37:04,984
That's great.

998
00:37:04,884 --> 00:37:06,238
The seed has been planted.

999
00:37:06,238 --> 00:37:08,261
Before we jump into some of the

1000
00:37:08,233 --> 00:37:10,831
wrap-up questions, was there
anything else that you wanted to

1001
00:37:10,831 --> 00:37:13,470
speak about, Ron?
No, I just think Kelowna is a

1002
00:37:13,470 --> 00:37:14,450
beautiful place to live.

1003
00:37:14,550 --> 00:37:16,339
There's still lots of great things

1004
00:37:16,339 --> 00:37:16,453
happening.

1005
00:37:16,453 --> 00:37:18,113
I just think that we need to be

1006
00:37:18,113 --> 00:37:20,190
very wise and prudent as we make
decisions moving forward.

1007
00:37:20,190 --> 00:37:23,268
And I try to listen to the
concerns I hear from people.

1008
00:37:23,238 --> 00:37:25,813
And there's lots of people that
citizens have lived here for many

1009
00:37:25,813 --> 00:37:29,381
years and much wiser than me and
learn from them and also give an

1010
00:37:29,381 --> 00:37:31,100
opportunity for young people that
want to come here.

1011
00:37:31,100 --> 00:37:34,063
You know, they go to university,
as you said, or Okanagan College,

1012
00:37:33,963 --> 00:37:36,397
UBCO, and they want to live here.

1013
00:37:36,397 --> 00:37:39,960
And we want to be able to provide

1014
00:37:40,060 --> 00:37:40,448
that opportunity.

1015
00:37:40,548 --> 00:37:42,643
UBCO and they want to live here

1016
00:37:42,743 --> 00:37:46,164
and we want to be able to provide
that opportunity I mean Kelowna

1017
00:37:46,164 --> 00:37:49,368
has become a much more diverse
community from when I first moved

1018
00:37:49,882 --> 00:37:52,503
here in 1990 if you saw a person
of color walking down the street

1019
00:37:52,603 --> 00:37:56,199
as almost like an endangered
species and all you take a look at

1020
00:37:56,099 --> 00:37:59,235
and we're coming up with the
Kelowna Community Resources a

1021
00:37:59,235 --> 00:38:00,729
fantastic facility and they're
expanding and providing great

1022
00:38:00,829 --> 00:38:02,880
services in our community and
international student schools

1023
00:38:02,900 --> 00:38:05,017
which is a challenge right now
with the immigration for

1024
00:38:05,017 --> 00:38:07,487
international students for both
private and public, both

1025
00:38:07,487 --> 00:38:07,898
secondary.

1026
00:38:07,898 --> 00:38:09,192
But I said there's so many good

1027
00:38:09,192 --> 00:38:09,368
things.

1028
00:38:09,368 --> 00:38:11,120
So we've got the music awards in

1029
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,063
the country, music awards coming
next year.

1030
00:38:13,063 --> 00:38:14,671
We just got those awards in
September.

1031
00:38:14,671 --> 00:38:17,526
We have, you know, hopefully going
to bid on the Memorial Cup for

1032
00:38:17,526 --> 00:38:17,590
2026.

1033
00:38:17,590 --> 00:38:19,589
And just a lot of festivities and

1034
00:38:19,589 --> 00:38:20,040
music, arts.

1035
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:21,036
It's a great community.

1036
00:38:21,036 --> 00:38:24,820
Raised in family, like I said,
I've got five grandkids and four

1037
00:38:24,820 --> 00:38:28,435
of them are living here right now
in Kelowna and so fortunate to be

1038
00:38:28,435 --> 00:38:30,795
able to live here all these years
and want to continue to make

1039
00:38:30,795 --> 00:38:31,653
Kelowna the best place.

1040
00:38:31,653 --> 00:38:33,428
But we do have some real serious

1041
00:38:33,428 --> 00:38:35,776
issues with mental health and
homelessness and it's a real

1042
00:38:35,776 --> 00:38:37,354
passion of mine to focus on that.

1043
00:38:37,354 --> 00:38:39,357
I know the Mayor's Task Force on

1044
00:38:39,357 --> 00:38:40,905
Crime and Safety was part of that.

1045
00:38:40,905 --> 00:38:42,517
And that's one of our priorities.

1046
00:38:42,453 --> 00:38:44,048
And we're pushing for that as
well.

1047
00:38:44,048 --> 00:38:44,239
Yeah.

1048
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:45,701
That facility is sooner or later.

1049
00:38:45,701 --> 00:38:50,622
thing before we wrap up here, kind
of to finish off where we started.

1050
00:38:50,622 --> 00:38:53,663
I just had one question that was
in the back of my mind I meant to

1051
00:38:53,663 --> 00:38:53,953
ask.

1052
00:38:53,953 --> 00:38:55,443
When someone comes, let's say they

1053
00:38:55,343 --> 00:38:57,148
actually successfully put a land
assembly together and they're

1054
00:38:57,148 --> 00:38:58,192
looking to develop.

1055
00:38:58,192 --> 00:38:59,443
It seems like some projects get

1056
00:38:59,407 --> 00:38:59,775
approved, some don't.

1057
00:38:59,775 --> 00:39:00,880
As an outsider, you don't really

1058
00:38:47,040 --> 00:39:02,175
know the ins and outs of it.

1059
00:39:02,126 --> 00:39:03,608
I guess, what are you guys looking

1060
00:39:03,608 --> 00:39:06,992
for to approve, let's say a
smaller land assembly, like most

1061
00:39:06,992 --> 00:39:10,993
of our listeners are going to do
maybe three or four lots and build

1062
00:39:10,993 --> 00:39:11,712
16 units.

1063
00:39:11,812 --> 00:39:13,464
What are the golden ticket items

1064
00:39:13,364 --> 00:39:16,275
the city's looking for in terms of
approving those Well, it's

1065
00:39:16,275 --> 00:39:17,565
obviously, you're looking at the
amenities.

1066
00:39:17,565 --> 00:39:20,547
I mean, the balance is trying to
provide affordability.

1067
00:39:20,547 --> 00:39:23,739
You're saying six plex or eight
plex, is that what you're looking

1068
00:39:23,639 --> 00:39:24,730
at, or four plex?
Yeah.

1069
00:39:24,737 --> 00:39:25,741
I mean, you can only do so much as
far as, call it sensitively

1070
00:39:25,741 --> 00:39:26,694
integrating with the neighborhood.

1071
00:39:26,694 --> 00:39:27,897
So depending on what's in the

1072
00:39:27,897 --> 00:39:30,273
neighborhood, you want to form a
character.

1073
00:39:30,273 --> 00:39:32,798
And you'll look at, there's some
pretty interesting models staff

1074
00:39:32,798 --> 00:39:33,148
can help.

1075
00:39:33,148 --> 00:39:35,227
There's some templates they can

1076
00:39:35,227 --> 00:39:36,459
work with to use from successful
models.

1077
00:39:36,459 --> 00:39:39,934
So don't be afraid to set up a
meeting with planning staff.

1078
00:39:39,934 --> 00:39:43,667
They've got some great experience
and practicality that, and don't

1079
00:39:43,567 --> 00:39:47,840
be afraid to reach out to council
as well and say, okay, this is

1080
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:48,720
what I'm thinking of doing.

1081
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:49,989
Nowadays, you don't have to rezone

1082
00:39:49,989 --> 00:39:52,448
the property, but council still
has the opportunity to turn down

1083
00:39:52,448 --> 00:39:53,565
if there's something you're doing
that's not plex?

1084
00:39:53,531 --> 00:39:54,110
of your neighbors.

1085
00:39:54,110 --> 00:39:55,508
So as a developer, you have the

1086
00:39:55,485 --> 00:39:58,131
responsibility to meet with your
neighbors and work with them and

1087
00:39:58,131 --> 00:40:01,790
be good neighbors, because some
people just try to figure out, I'm

1088
00:40:01,790 --> 00:40:05,585
going to do this and railroad it
through and don't talk to council.

1089
00:40:05,585 --> 00:40:08,025
It's got to be an open dialogue.

1090
00:40:08,025 --> 00:40:10,186
We want to work with you and be

1091
00:40:10,186 --> 00:40:12,884
respectful of the fact that you're
investing in our community and

1092
00:40:12,884 --> 00:40:16,496
providing housing that we need and
hopefully the affordability aspect

1093
00:40:16,496 --> 00:40:18,469
so the costs can be kept down.

1094
00:40:18,469 --> 00:40:19,770
I know that's something that we

1095
00:40:19,770 --> 00:40:23,002
have to do as a city as well with
development cost charges is always

1096
00:40:23,002 --> 00:40:23,385
a challenge.

1097
00:40:23,385 --> 00:40:26,192
Trying to keep them down and keep

1098
00:40:26,147 --> 00:40:27,119
other permitting fees and
everything because there's a role

1099
00:40:27,119 --> 00:40:27,902
that the city can do.

1100
00:40:27,857 --> 00:40:29,101
I think overall, we work with

1101
00:40:29,101 --> 00:40:30,622
Urban Development Institute and
Canadian Home Builders and have a

1102
00:40:30,616 --> 00:40:31,560
pretty good working relationship
with them and everything because

1103
00:40:31,549 --> 00:40:34,793
there's a role that the city can
And I think we work with Urban

1104
00:40:34,793 --> 00:40:35,107
Development do.

1105
00:40:35,107 --> 00:40:35,735
Institute overall, and Canadian

1106
00:40:35,735 --> 00:40:38,047
Home Builders and have a pretty
good working relationship with

1107
00:40:38,047 --> 00:40:41,831
them as trying to move that
through his pipeline as quickly as

1108
00:40:41,831 --> 00:40:44,432
possible and be respectful of
communities and the sense of

1109
00:40:44,432 --> 00:40:44,491
community.

1110
00:40:44,491 --> 00:40:46,727
Just don't densify for the sake of

1111
00:40:46,727 --> 00:40:50,914
densifying, but what fits in to
make a better community for all.

1112
00:40:50,905 --> 00:40:52,238
and you guys have been very open.

1113
00:40:52,238 --> 00:40:53,411
I mean, speaking with even Matt

1114
00:40:53,411 --> 00:40:55,329
and I, we've had Brian Smith on,
Adam Cheka.

1115
00:40:55,329 --> 00:40:56,960
So yeah, we appreciate your guys'
time.

1116
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,270
we'll jump into our wrap-up
questions here just to finish this

1117
00:40:59,270 --> 00:41:03,160
off if you could buy one property
in the okanagan in the next 12

1118
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:07,156
months what would it can we call
the shoe shop the okanagan i'm

1119
00:41:07,156 --> 00:41:09,120
working on a golf course
development it's called mary

1120
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,960
hill's golf course used to be
called hide mountain so i do some

1121
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:15,453
consulting work we have a shy of
100 rv been sold, and we're

1122
00:41:15,453 --> 00:41:16,360
working on that.

1123
00:41:16,580 --> 00:41:17,835
And then the master plan could be

1124
00:41:17,835 --> 00:41:20,451
750 to 1,000 units, working with
the regional district on that.

1125
00:41:20,451 --> 00:41:23,602
It's a look at kind of a mini
Predator Ridge, and it's got so

1126
00:41:23,602 --> 00:41:23,947
much potential.

1127
00:41:23,947 --> 00:41:24,738
It's actually got Lakeview.

1128
00:41:24,735 --> 00:41:27,302
It's one of the only golf courses
you can actually boat to and have

1129
00:41:27,276 --> 00:41:28,634
a boat ride up to.

1130
00:41:28,634 --> 00:41:31,036
You have a float plane you can fly

1131
00:41:31,036 --> 00:41:34,395
into, and they'll pick you up and
take you to the clubhouse but it's

1132
00:41:34,395 --> 00:41:35,998
something that we're working on
the next couple of years so eyes

1133
00:41:35,992 --> 00:41:39,204
open for that other than that i
live in hall road and there's a

1134
00:41:39,204 --> 00:41:42,558
beautiful piece of property out
here about 20 plus acres that's

1135
00:41:42,558 --> 00:41:46,198
pristine right in the city and has
nature right in urban mecca so

1136
00:41:46,198 --> 00:41:48,082
there's lots of beautiful
properties right in kelowna the

1137
00:41:47,982 --> 00:41:50,703
okanagan can't go wrong that's
first property I bought when I was

1138
00:41:50,703 --> 00:41:53,689
20 years old and real estate has
been a good investment for myself

1139
00:41:53,689 --> 00:41:57,497
and not making any more land so
yeah get a hold of your favorite

1140
00:41:57,497 --> 00:42:01,731
realtor and mortgage broker and
get it we're you they are if you

1141
00:42:01,731 --> 00:42:07,746
could give your 20 old a piece of
advice what be well as far as I

1142
00:42:07,746 --> 00:42:10,595
said before, in investment
perspective, real estate, but as

1143
00:42:10,595 --> 00:42:14,143
far as I said to my 20-year-olds
at the time, and I said to myself

1144
00:42:14,043 --> 00:42:16,915
back then, is that to treat people
how you want to be treated, live

1145
00:42:16,915 --> 00:42:18,540
life with integrity, don't burn
bridges.

1146
00:42:18,540 --> 00:42:21,698
And as a Christian, I try to treat
other people how you want to be

1147
00:42:21,798 --> 00:42:25,252
treated, respect, and as I say,
love your neighbor as yourself,

1148
00:42:25,252 --> 00:42:27,241
right?
And love the Lord with all your

1149
00:42:27,241 --> 00:42:28,933
heart, soul, and mind.

1150
00:42:28,833 --> 00:42:29,960
And that's my life goal.

1151
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:34,347
And I try to be a better person
and make the world a better place

1152
00:42:34,347 --> 00:42:36,869
and one day at a time it's far
from perfect and i'm a person

1153
00:42:36,969 --> 00:42:39,758
under construction so continue to
try to work for there we all i

1154
00:42:39,758 --> 00:42:42,980
like that yeah what is your
favorite charity or how do you

1155
00:42:42,980 --> 00:42:45,509
give back of ways there's
different organizations we have

1156
00:42:45,509 --> 00:42:48,298
whether it's metro freedom store
okanagan valley pregnancy care

1157
00:42:48,298 --> 00:42:51,096
center food bank through local
church a lot of volunteering over

1158
00:42:51,096 --> 00:42:54,391
the years whenever i can i love
playing music i play drums so we

1159
00:42:54,391 --> 00:42:57,054
go jamming in the park wherever it
is it's always music is a great

1160
00:42:57,054 --> 00:43:00,066
way to give back might need to get
you for our next intro song we'll

1161
00:43:00,066 --> 00:43:04,819
just get a bit of a drum solo you
there you go i have to how can

1162
00:43:04,819 --> 00:43:10,500
taylor or i how can i listen to
help you i'm happy to help however

1163
00:43:10,500 --> 00:43:13,500
i can if anybody has any questions
my phone number for the city is

1164
00:43:13,500 --> 00:43:16,266
250-864-9537 so 864-9537 or you
can email me at r cannon that's

1165
00:43:16,266 --> 00:43:17,255
c-a-n-n-a-n at colonna.ca.

1166
00:43:17,255 --> 00:43:17,604
All right.

1167
00:43:17,604 --> 00:43:17,837
Awesome.

1168
00:43:17,837 --> 00:43:18,477
We'll do that.

1169
00:43:18,477 --> 00:43:21,684
We'll put all that stuff in the
show notes as well.

1170
00:43:21,684 --> 00:43:21,859
right.

1171
00:43:21,859 --> 00:43:23,361
Well, thank you, gentlemen, and I

1172
00:43:23,261 --> 00:43:24,916
wish you all the best and keep
helping people and families moving

1173
00:43:24,874 --> 00:43:25,196
to Kelowna through your great
services that you provide as well.

1174
00:43:25,023 --> 00:43:25,216
And I'll try to do my best to
continue to make a four-season

1175
00:43:25,171 --> 00:43:25,260
playground for all of us.

1176
00:43:25,236 --> 00:43:26,006
Yeah, we appreciate you, Ron.

1177
00:43:26,005 --> 00:43:27,098
Thanks so Thanks, Thank Ron.

1178
00:43:27,098 --> 00:43:27,644
Stay much.

1179
00:43:27,644 --> 00:43:28,869
all of Appreciate you.

1180
00:43:28,869 --> 00:43:29,874
us. we appreciate that.

1181
00:43:29,874 --> 00:43:30,503
Yeah, Ron.

1182
00:43:30,503 --> 00:43:31,131
you, Ron.

1183
00:43:31,131 --> 00:43:32,358
Thanks, Thanks so much.

1184
00:43:32,358 --> 00:43:32,988
Thank you.

1185
00:43:32,988 --> 00:43:33,987
Stay safe and healthy.

1186
00:43:33,987 --> 00:43:34,355
God bless.