60: The Future of Wineries in the Okanagan with Quail's Gate Winery Founder Ben Stewart

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back to the Kelowna Real Estate
Podcast.

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I'm your mortgage broker host,
Taylor And I'm your real estate

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agent host, Matt Glenn.

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What's happening, Just enjoying

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another day in the busy life of
brokering.

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Matt, how about you?
Yeah, busy day of agenting.

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Subjects came off last night.

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I have at least three new listings

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coming up.

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I have a client coming in as soon

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as I finish recording this to sign
another listing.

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So it seems to be heating up, at
least on the listing front.

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I've got seven closing this month
and six next month and yeah, a few

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more kind of in the works.

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So it's steady.

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Yeah.

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Lenders are busy.

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Yeah.

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I've kind of had my head in the

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sand in the last couple of days,
but you've got some breaking news,

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some more updates for us.

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What do we Yeah.

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I've kind of Well, yeah.

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So not entirely breaking, but VC's

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new flipping tax will be
retroactive.

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So if you purchase property in
2023 or 2024, it can apply.

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It comes into effect at the start
of the year, though, so January

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1st.

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So if you are going to make a huge

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gain, it might be worth trying to
sell this year.

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Also, it will apply to pre-sale
contracts at the time of the

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signing.

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We kind of thought this would

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happen.

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So you sign a contract for a

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pre-sale.

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If it's been two years and you

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flip it, it's fine.

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You don't get dinged with the tax.

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But if you buy an assignment off
somebody, then that time starts

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then.

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There's also on the flipping tax,

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there's a $20,000 exemption on the
flipping tax.

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So basically the first $100,000
that you make off your flip is tax

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exempt.

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And also if you add a flip and put

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a basement suite in, it's tax
exempt.

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So that's that.

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What do you think, Taylor?

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What's your first thoughts on
that?

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I'm just biting my tongue, man.

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I'm positive today.

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You're retroactively stung or
what?

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I think retroactively is absolute
insanity.

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It's like if someone's driving 50
in a 50 zone and then the cop

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pulls them over and says, oh,
sorry, it's actually 40.

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We're just changing it.

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And like, I'm positive today,

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Matt.

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Nobody can bring me down.

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awesome.

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Yeah.

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It honestly is like you play by
the rules and then the rules

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change after you did something
that's honestly kind of irritating

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also it just feels like every
single week we come on the show we

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have a new law or a new rule to
talk about like my god the real

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estate industry is just getting
smacked right now we're getting

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tired of talking about it i'm sure
people are getting tired of

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listening to it.

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But you know, I mean, it keeps us

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in business.

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That's why we have a podcast,

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right?
If nothing changed, then we'd have

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nothing to report.

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Well, also, I was thinking too,

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like if the real estate is so hot
that you have to add in just

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endless rules to do anything to
tame it, and it's still going

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crazy.

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Like, man, maybe it's just worth

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something.

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You know, like, my God.

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Well, to try and distance ourself
and bring in a third party,

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unbiased, very professional,
analytical person, we are bringing

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back by popular demand, Brendan
Augmentson, BCREA chief economist.

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Yeah.

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So that will be recorded on the

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rate announcement, which will be
tomorrow when this gets released

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for Bank of Canada rate
announcement.

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And we'll try and get that out to
you as fast as we can so we can

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get his thoughts on the trajectory
of Bank of Canada rate.

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But also he's provided some
reports recently that show that

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these legislation changes are not
going to achieve what the

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government wants.

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So yeah, really awesome, brilliant

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mind to bring on and kind of allow
him to dissect it further than

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Matt and I just putting analogies
about speeding in a 50 zone.

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Yeah.

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I saw him on Global News this

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morning talking about the flipping
tax and you're right, drills down

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on that from what I saw, but we'll
get to the bottom.

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We'll get his very deepest
opinions on the show.

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And then speaking about more
amazing guests today, we're having

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on Ben Stewart, which I'm sure
most people know him but if you

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don't yeah whalesgate winery one
of the founders mla yeah bc united

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he's very involved in the west
colonna and colonna community just

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bc in general he's kind of all
over the place we yeah bc to have

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somebody on from the wine industry
that knew what they were talking

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about like how hard has been hit
they had that bad weather event

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that destroyed like up to 80 or
90% of all the vines and the

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Okanagan.

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And then also our mini war, our

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wine and beer war with Alberta and
all the legislation changes that's

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happening with housing.

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So Ben Stewart was really the

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perfect guest for us to have on to
talk about all these issues.

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And it was awesome.

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Yeah.

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Insightful guy.

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Yeah.

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You Yeah.

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You know, we have a lot of these

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guests on that.

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I don't know, me personally, I

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feel like we shouldn't be allowed
to talk to, you know, that I hold

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them up on a pedestal and he's one
of those guys where it's like,

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man, the history that he's seen in
Kelowna and has been part of

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developing.

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I think he was minister of

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agriculture as well.

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Like he's just so involved in such

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a large scope.

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It's just so fun to talk to these

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guys.

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And private sector and the public

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sector.

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So yeah, it really was perfect for

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what we need to talk about right
now to kind of ease our fears.

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So yeah, I everyone Definitely.

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This show, like every show is

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sponsored by the best brokers in
town, Century 21 Insurance Realty.

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A lot going on here.

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We just had a big acquisition from

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a lot of agents from Sutton came
over.

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It's been awesome.

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I was asked to speak at the

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introductory meeting and yeah,
we're really happy to have that

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on.

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If you're an agent looking to

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revitalize your business or
somehow get ahead in this crazy

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market and take advantage of all
these rule changes, I think

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Century 21 is worth looking at.

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Set up a meeting with Max or

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myself or Dean and talk about it.

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I think it would really help a lot

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of people kind of working with a
team and not so alone yeah it

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gives you full access to every
episode that we record as well so

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you can listen to that because
that's not public knowledge to

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everyone yeah it comes with the
membership yeah i think you guys

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will enjoy the show today you know
listen while you're driving or

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hey, you know what?
Get in the mood, crack a bottle of

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a nice Pinot from Quailsgate and
Yeah.

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And also one more thing, Ben
invited us to have wine with him

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after the show.

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So we know it was a good episode.

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Yeah.

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We got to take him up on that.

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Yeah, we do.

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We told him we were going to, and

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we got him.

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So yeah.

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Maybe once he gets to know us a
little bit more, he'll rescind

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that invitation.

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That's what the wine is first and

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last meeting.

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Okay.

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Well, enjoy the show, guys.

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And yeah, we got a lot of good

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guests coming up.

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So stay tuned.

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Welcome to the show, Ben Stewart.

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Thank you so much for joining us

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today.

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Thanks so often.

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Yeah, it's a to be here.

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We like to start our show with

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just kind of what does your
perfect Friday look like?

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What gives you energy?
What makes you productive?

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What kind of gets you out of the
bed and leading into the weekend?

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What You know what, as an MLA, I'd
have to say that if we, you know,

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just kind of resolve some of the
things that are, you know,

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constantly the office is
confronted with, with constituent

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issues, whether it's healthcare
rules, red tape permits, you know,

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all of those types of things.

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It's really a good day if on a

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Friday we can sit back and we had
one today even, just the whole

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ability to kind of know that
you're making a difference.

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You know, I usually am up at about
the same time every day and

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heading towards the weekend is
usually an opportunity for me to

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either attend an event in the
community.

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A week from now, I'll be attending
an Easter egg hunt up at Kalinni

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Beach.

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But I think more importantly, as

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the weather turns to spring, it's
always nice.

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I mean, everything's starting to
grow and rapidly, you know, you

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don't see it if you're not looking
closely at how the buds are coming

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out.

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And, you know, my early things

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like magnolias and stuff around
the house are all getting ready to

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pop. And of course, this warm
weather, you know, it's helping.

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And I hope that the cold weather
has decided to, you know, take a

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rest.

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So it stays warm at least for a

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while?
Well, it's an important thing

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because in the springtime, usually
we're worried about spring frost

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in the grape industry.

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And I usually figure that the

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threat of spring frost is passed
by about May 1st.

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It often is way earlier than that,
like we get out of it.

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But this year, especially with the
damage that we experienced in

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early January, we had a
precipitous drop in temperature of

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almost 25 degrees.

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And then it went cold and stayed

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cold for about five or six days.

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We're looking at how things are

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going to come out.

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And the heat in the ground and

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then to the vines will help us
determine what's our best course

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of action and how we can try to
get the vines through the season

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if there's going to be replanting
necessary, which there's a lot of

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that underway already.

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But I think that it's important.

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And there's a lot of that underway
already.

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But I think that, you know, it's
important and there's a lot of

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things.

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I mean, legislation that's in

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front of the house, as you're well
aware, the current government has

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chosen to use kind of, I'd say, a
stick rather than a carrot

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approach, which has been, you
know, kind of heavy handed in

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terms of things like zoning, short
term rentals, lots of things that

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are people are not very happy
about.

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And I think that there is a
different approach and I'm always

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more of a, you know, kind of a
carrot.

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What can we do to incentivize
communities?

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Incentivize.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Well, maybe we kind of break this

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show into two parts and focus a
little bit on the wine industry,

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like we were just speaking about
with the climate through this

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winter, and then maybe leading
into some of the government

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legislation.

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So for those of our listeners that

253
00:08:13,683 --> 00:08:16,504
don't know, are you a founder, the
founder of Quailsgate?

254
00:08:16,604 --> 00:08:18,568
Your family's been involved in it
for four generations.

255
00:08:18,568 --> 00:08:23,063
So yeah, I've been around West
Kelowna for a very long time and

256
00:08:23,063 --> 00:08:23,469
love Quailsgate.

257
00:08:23,469 --> 00:08:24,585
The wine's amazing.

258
00:08:24,485 --> 00:08:25,703
And your restaurant there is
incredible.

259
00:08:25,703 --> 00:08:25,838
Yeah.

260
00:08:25,838 --> 00:08:27,869
My wife and I celebrated our

261
00:08:27,869 --> 00:08:29,426
anniversary there this year and it
was top notch.

262
00:08:29,426 --> 00:08:34,606
What kind of happened this winter?
I know you touched on it to just

263
00:08:34,606 --> 00:08:35,607
like the general consumer.

264
00:08:35,607 --> 00:08:37,361
It didn't seem like an overly cold

265
00:08:37,361 --> 00:08:39,702
winter, but was it so warm?
And then that massive drop in

266
00:08:39,702 --> 00:08:41,469
temperature just kind of shocked
the vines.

267
00:08:41,469 --> 00:08:44,320
And that's why we had such a
substantial My wife I think that

268
00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,419
that's exactly what it was, is
that, you know, we had a very

269
00:08:47,419 --> 00:08:50,175
mild, warm, you know, we finished
harvest.

270
00:08:50,175 --> 00:08:51,638
It was not late.

271
00:08:51,638 --> 00:08:53,168
The vines were properly mature.

272
00:08:53,168 --> 00:08:55,946
And it was kind of, they get
lulled into thinking that, you

273
00:08:55,946 --> 00:08:58,278
know, they don't have to do
anything more.

274
00:08:58,278 --> 00:09:03,045
But when you go from plus five
down to minus 18 in a period of 24

275
00:09:03,045 --> 00:09:05,893
hours, that type of shift I've
only seen once before in 1985.

276
00:09:05,893 --> 00:09:09,723
And we were out pruning and, you
the vines the sap was running and

277
00:09:09,623 --> 00:09:12,505
it was in But needless to say,
know, already, February.

278
00:09:12,505 --> 00:09:15,023
it ended up that the vines did
sustain significant damage.

279
00:09:15,023 --> 00:09:17,941
And that really comes from, you
know, plants being fooled into

280
00:09:17,941 --> 00:09:20,699
thinking that, you know, their
heat is a big factor, what happens

281
00:09:20,699 --> 00:09:22,170
in the vines.

282
00:09:22,170 --> 00:09:24,162
And I think that that's what we're

283
00:09:24,162 --> 00:09:24,421
facing.

284
00:09:24,421 --> 00:09:26,578
And it is unprecedented in terms

285
00:09:26,478 --> 00:09:28,816
of the amount of damage from what
I've seen.

286
00:09:28,816 --> 00:09:32,099
Having walked around my own home
block, which is right across the

287
00:09:32,099 --> 00:09:34,457
street from Quails Gate, I didn't
find a live butt.

288
00:09:34,457 --> 00:09:35,809
And that's a really serious
concern.

289
00:09:35,809 --> 00:09:39,034
Now, it doesn't mean that plants
don't have an ability to recover.

290
00:09:39,034 --> 00:09:40,656
And that's what we serious
concern.

291
00:09:40,556 --> 00:09:44,220
it Now, doesn't mean that plants
don't have an ability to recover.

292
00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:52,349
And that's what we're going to be
waiting till probably the end of

293
00:09:52,303 --> 00:09:52,360
May before we really get the true
sense of how much damage.

294
00:09:52,426 --> 00:09:59,395
And when the leaves come out and
the shoots, they will likely have

295
00:09:59,395 --> 00:10:00,586
no fruit on them at all.

296
00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:01,904
So that's what we're looking at.

297
00:10:01,798 --> 00:10:03,360
Hopefully, the best case scenario
is that the plants survive.

298
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,820
We have wood that comes out and we
can retrain that.

299
00:10:05,820 --> 00:10:10,511
And then we'll be able to get a
partial crop next year and then

300
00:10:10,511 --> 00:10:14,047
get them back to their full
production the following season,

301
00:10:14,047 --> 00:10:15,176
barring any other disasters.

302
00:10:15,176 --> 00:10:17,168
what I was going to ask.

303
00:10:17,168 --> 00:10:20,117
So this is more than just a one
season off.

304
00:10:20,117 --> 00:10:23,180
It's going to take a few years to
rebound from this.

305
00:10:23,104 --> 00:10:23,745
And are all your vineyards in West
Kelowna?

306
00:10:23,745 --> 00:10:24,603
Do you have any down south in
Soyuz?

307
00:10:24,427 --> 00:10:25,808
Yeah, primarily a large portion of
our vineyard is located right at

308
00:10:25,808 --> 00:10:26,437
the winery.

309
00:10:26,437 --> 00:10:28,510
On the home block, we have about

310
00:10:28,510 --> 00:10:28,886
125 acres.

311
00:10:28,886 --> 00:10:30,452
We farm about four or five other

312
00:10:30,452 --> 00:10:33,173
vineyards in the neighborhood,
which bring us up about another 70

313
00:10:33,173 --> 00:10:33,467
acres.

314
00:10:33,467 --> 00:10:35,667
And we have 200 acres over in

315
00:10:35,667 --> 00:10:36,107
South Kelowna.

316
00:10:36,107 --> 00:10:37,737
And we have 200 acres over in

317
00:10:37,737 --> 00:10:38,184
South Kelowna.

318
00:10:38,184 --> 00:10:41,190
And then we have about three or

319
00:10:41,190 --> 00:10:43,486
four vineyards all over in Asuya.

320
00:10:43,486 --> 00:10:45,307
So we farm a substantial amount of

321
00:10:45,307 --> 00:10:47,028
acreage in diverse conditions.

322
00:10:47,028 --> 00:10:48,201
And I would say from the reports

323
00:10:48,201 --> 00:10:50,380
I've heard from the management
team is that they haven't found

324
00:10:50,380 --> 00:10:53,870
anything to be different in any of
the locations.

325
00:10:53,870 --> 00:10:56,114
So it's not really a viticultural
problem.

326
00:10:56,114 --> 00:10:58,680
That's my next So it's across the
So it's not really a viticultural

327
00:10:58,580 --> 00:10:59,630
That's my next question.

328
00:10:59,630 --> 00:10:59,700
question.

329
00:10:59,700 --> 00:10:59,910
locations.

330
00:10:59,910 --> 00:11:00,260
problem.

331
00:11:00,260 --> 00:11:01,730
So it's across the board.

332
00:11:01,730 --> 00:11:03,480
Two years December ago, of 22,

333
00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,984
there was a cold event that was
quite long in duration around

334
00:11:06,984 --> 00:11:07,334
Christmas time.

335
00:11:07,334 --> 00:11:08,619
And that particular damage caused

336
00:11:08,619 --> 00:11:11,004
significant damage, especially in
Similkameen where they were

337
00:11:11,004 --> 00:11:11,327
devastated.

338
00:11:11,427 --> 00:11:13,528
Most growers found that they were

339
00:11:13,428 --> 00:11:16,256
down about 50% of their average
yields in 2023.

340
00:11:16,256 --> 00:11:20,829
Now in the North Okanagan, kind of
north of, I'd say, Naramata and

341
00:11:20,829 --> 00:11:23,844
Summerland, there was an event in
21 that also caused a crop

342
00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:23,730
production.

343
00:11:23,707 --> 00:11:28,520
So when you have vines that have

344
00:11:28,381 --> 00:11:28,520
been weakened by, you know,
damage, etc., they're always

345
00:11:28,484 --> 00:11:33,110
trying to make up the difference
and try to figure out, I mean,

346
00:11:33,076 --> 00:11:41,180
that's their job is to try to
reproduce and do what they do.

347
00:11:41,059 --> 00:11:41,180
So there's been these sustained
events, mostly caused by cold

348
00:11:41,130 --> 00:11:41,180
weather.

349
00:11:41,133 --> 00:11:43,790
Some of them, like the ones that I

350
00:11:43,772 --> 00:11:45,054
talked about in the Similkameen,
they were colder than minus 30.

351
00:11:45,007 --> 00:11:45,100
Those are temperatures that most
growers throw up their hands when

352
00:11:45,083 --> 00:11:45,100
they hear that type of
temperature.

353
00:11:45,166 --> 00:11:49,520
And it's my understanding from the
people that I do know in the

354
00:11:52,500 --> 00:11:53,384
Similkameen that there's a fair
amount of replanting that's having

355
00:11:53,276 --> 00:11:54,247
to occur from the 2022 vintage.

356
00:11:54,247 --> 00:11:59,544
And I don't know where they got to

357
00:11:59,544 --> 00:12:04,248
in this vintage because I haven't
had the benefit or luxury of

358
00:12:04,248 --> 00:12:06,592
traveling to that area this year.

359
00:12:06,592 --> 00:12:10,272
But I would say that it's a big

360
00:12:10,172 --> 00:12:10,581
setback.

361
00:12:10,581 --> 00:12:12,320
And we've had other vintages.

362
00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:15,480
Our father, Richard Stewart, spent
a lot of time experimenting and

363
00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:16,233
researching grape varieties.

364
00:12:16,233 --> 00:12:19,048
And when he first started out, he

365
00:12:19,048 --> 00:12:21,742
started with typical Labrascas
like Welch's Grape Juice or

366
00:12:21,742 --> 00:12:22,083
Concord.

367
00:12:21,983 --> 00:12:23,711
Those are very durable and hearty.

368
00:12:23,711 --> 00:12:26,093
But of course, the industry wanted
to make better wine.

369
00:12:25,993 --> 00:12:29,543
And so he joined up with the
Capozis, believe it or not, and

370
00:12:29,643 --> 00:12:30,806
they planted two vineyards.

371
00:12:30,806 --> 00:12:33,660
One where Burring Alla is today,

372
00:12:33,660 --> 00:12:37,760
and the other one in West Kelowna,
and they planted about 350 acres.

373
00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,680
But they imported new vines from
New York State.

374
00:12:40,780 --> 00:12:44,369
And those vines included many of
what they call the French hybrids,

375
00:12:44,369 --> 00:12:47,600
which are a crossing of La Bresca
with vinifera or vice versa.

376
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,100
So what's happened is that those
varieties were where the industry

377
00:12:50,100 --> 00:12:53,026
went from about 1962 until free
trade agreement in 1987.

378
00:12:53,026 --> 00:12:56,995
And in that period of time, there
was lots of research being done on

379
00:12:56,995 --> 00:12:57,125
vinifera.

380
00:12:57,125 --> 00:12:59,774
And my dad was a big part of that.

381
00:12:59,774 --> 00:13:01,254
And I worked with him.

382
00:13:01,254 --> 00:13:03,224
I was sent to Washington State as

383
00:13:03,224 --> 00:13:05,801
a young teenager to drive down and
pick up plants.

384
00:13:05,801 --> 00:13:09,836
And anyways, we did all of this
work in the 70s.

385
00:13:09,836 --> 00:13:15,305
And I can tell you that when I
first started making wine, I

386
00:13:15,205 --> 00:13:18,718
started making wine with all of
this cornucopia of different

387
00:13:18,718 --> 00:13:21,877
hybrids that my dad had planted
because he had all these

388
00:13:21,977 --> 00:13:22,595
experimental blocks.

389
00:13:22,595 --> 00:13:24,809
hybrids that my dad had planted

390
00:13:24,709 --> 00:13:25,948
because he had all these
experimental blocks.

391
00:13:25,948 --> 00:13:29,504
And mostly what I found out was
that the wine tasted terrible.

392
00:13:29,404 --> 00:13:30,680
And so we abandoned that.

393
00:13:30,780 --> 00:13:32,820
But I made a wine with a guy,

394
00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,066
formal naval officer, Don Allen in
West Kelowna.

395
00:13:35,066 --> 00:13:40,895
And he and I made some Pinot Noir
in 1980 that was unbelievable.

396
00:13:40,895 --> 00:13:44,095
So I immediately started planting
Pinot Noir, which subsequently led

397
00:13:44,095 --> 00:13:48,119
me to getting a letter from our
winery of the day, which was

398
00:13:48,119 --> 00:13:51,584
called St. Michelle Wines, that
they weren't going to buy any of

399
00:13:51,584 --> 00:13:53,713
those red grapes that we were
planting.

400
00:13:53,713 --> 00:13:58,353
I was convinced and I ended up
growing it and selling to Cedar

401
00:13:58,353 --> 00:14:00,200
Creek's predecessor, Uniac,
Heinle, Geringer Brothers, Grey

402
00:14:00,680 --> 00:14:00,869
Monk.

403
00:14:00,869 --> 00:14:02,703
And so I was kind of one of the

404
00:14:02,703 --> 00:14:05,864
anomalies where I grew better
quality grapes, but it was mostly

405
00:14:05,864 --> 00:14:09,994
in trying to figure out what to do
and how to grow the quality that

406
00:14:09,994 --> 00:14:11,322
the wineries needed to lift the
varieties.

407
00:14:11,322 --> 00:14:14,862
But as I was starting to say, my
dad went through winters in 64,

408
00:14:14,962 --> 00:14:19,582
68, even prior to that, 49, there
was one he talked about, which of

409
00:14:19,582 --> 00:14:23,860
course I wasn't alive then, but he
talked about how when they were

410
00:14:25,780 --> 00:14:27,572
out pruning the trees, you could
hear the branches in the orchards

411
00:14:27,566 --> 00:14:28,421
cracking and breaking.

412
00:14:28,421 --> 00:14:29,158
That's how severe it was.

413
00:14:29,158 --> 00:14:31,206
And I think 49 or 50 is when the
lake froze over.

414
00:14:31,100 --> 00:14:32,831
So I haven't seen the lake really
freeze over like that.

415
00:14:32,931 --> 00:14:35,039
So let's be thankful that that
hasn't happened.

416
00:14:35,039 --> 00:14:36,311
You know, that's part of farming.

417
00:14:36,311 --> 00:14:37,547
That's the perseverance you need

418
00:14:37,647 --> 00:14:41,353
and the tenacity that you need to
have.

419
00:14:41,453 --> 00:14:45,263
If you're going to do it and
you're going to do it right,

420
00:14:45,263 --> 00:14:47,564
you've got to be willing to have
some setbacks.

421
00:14:47,664 --> 00:14:51,020
And as I said earlier, the wine
business is about the long game,

422
00:14:51,020 --> 00:14:52,615
not the short game.

423
00:14:52,515 --> 00:14:54,246
You got to work at it.

424
00:14:54,246 --> 00:14:59,214
You don't just make a wine that
everybody's falling all over right

425
00:14:59,114 --> 00:15:01,413
out of the gate.

426
00:15:01,313 --> 00:15:01,821
Sometimes people accidentally

427
00:15:01,821 --> 00:15:02,413
maybe do.

428
00:15:02,413 --> 00:15:04,468
I would say that it's much better

429
00:15:04,468 --> 00:15:07,912
now that I've been, you know,
almost 50 years in this business

430
00:15:07,912 --> 00:15:09,764
growing and making wine and
looking back on what we've

431
00:15:09,764 --> 00:15:09,955
accomplished.

432
00:15:09,955 --> 00:15:11,828
And, you know, it's about

433
00:15:11,828 --> 00:15:11,985
consistency.

434
00:15:11,985 --> 00:15:14,015
And I see a very bright future

435
00:15:14,015 --> 00:15:17,633
still in the long haul for the
Okanagan wine about the varieties

436
00:15:17,532 --> 00:15:19,895
of grapes?
Is there some that are better than

437
00:15:19,895 --> 00:15:22,100
others?
I was at another winery and they

438
00:15:22,100 --> 00:15:25,692
mentioned that that happened, that
this event might change the region

439
00:15:25,692 --> 00:15:29,085
where more growers are growing
certain kinds or kind of change

440
00:15:29,085 --> 00:15:30,045
what we grow.

441
00:15:30,045 --> 00:15:32,801
Are you seeing that in your

442
00:15:32,801 --> 00:15:34,221
experience?
Well, I think for the most part,

443
00:15:34,221 --> 00:15:37,136
the growers that are planting are
planting varieties that we have a

444
00:15:37,136 --> 00:15:38,607
proof and track record in.

445
00:15:38,607 --> 00:15:40,228
You know, I mentioned Pinot Noir,

446
00:15:40,228 --> 00:15:43,791
and that was something that I
latched on to after that 1980

447
00:15:43,791 --> 00:15:45,505
making of wine with Don Allen.

448
00:15:45,505 --> 00:15:46,790
You know, we experimented with

449
00:15:46,890 --> 00:15:47,196
Chardonnay.

450
00:15:47,096 --> 00:15:48,258
We've done some things that we

451
00:15:48,258 --> 00:15:50,980
just recently, we ripped out about
five acres of Cabernet Sauvignon

452
00:15:50,980 --> 00:15:53,793
that ended up being planted on the
home block.

453
00:15:53,793 --> 00:15:56,879
And it was good, but was it
fantastic or great?

454
00:15:56,879 --> 00:15:59,604
I think it was always nip and tuck
to get it ripe.

455
00:15:59,704 --> 00:16:02,750
And that always pushes things to
the end of the season.

456
00:16:02,750 --> 00:16:06,189
So in talking with our winemaker,
we made the uncomfortable decision

457
00:16:06,189 --> 00:16:09,231
to take those out and we're going
to replant with varieties that we

458
00:16:09,331 --> 00:16:10,620
know will have better resilience.

459
00:16:10,620 --> 00:16:12,761
So Pinot Noir again, probably some

460
00:16:12,761 --> 00:16:16,405
more Chardonnay, some Syrah, which
we've been very successful with.

461
00:16:16,305 --> 00:16:19,952
And there's varieties that I'd
like to plant if I could grow

462
00:16:19,952 --> 00:16:20,375
them.

463
00:16:20,375 --> 00:16:22,458
But at the end of the day, you've

464
00:16:22,458 --> 00:16:25,063
got to find the right site.

465
00:16:25,063 --> 00:16:27,136
So I think that that's part of a

466
00:16:27,136 --> 00:16:29,629
maturing industry is finding what
works best in that particular

467
00:16:29,629 --> 00:16:29,866
site.

468
00:16:29,866 --> 00:16:32,067
A lot of people make the mistake

469
00:16:32,067 --> 00:16:34,715
of thinking that heat equals
quality, and that's a complete

470
00:16:34,715 --> 00:16:34,825
fallacy.

471
00:16:34,825 --> 00:16:36,420
If you look in Europe and you look

472
00:16:36,420 --> 00:16:38,734
at countries that I extensively
traveled in and did research in

473
00:16:38,734 --> 00:16:42,117
before getting into this in a big
way, France, Germany, Italy, and

474
00:16:42,117 --> 00:16:45,207
they have such diverse regions
from north to south, that you can

475
00:16:45,207 --> 00:16:48,297
look at the Okanagan the same way.

476
00:16:48,297 --> 00:16:50,330
I mean, what grows in Oliver and

477
00:16:50,330 --> 00:16:52,200
Asuyas is going to be different.

478
00:16:52,300 --> 00:16:54,246
Now, winter aside, they can ripen

479
00:16:54,346 --> 00:16:55,781
grapes that take longer.

480
00:16:55,781 --> 00:16:56,549
They start earlier.

481
00:16:56,549 --> 00:17:00,847
And, you know, I can relate that
to whether it's peaches or table

482
00:17:00,847 --> 00:17:02,363
grapes we used to grow.

483
00:17:02,363 --> 00:17:04,388
We always were behind Oliver and

484
00:17:04,489 --> 00:17:07,347
Asuyas when it came to being first
to market.

485
00:17:07,347 --> 00:17:09,928
And so it's interesting how the
markets change, even with the

486
00:17:10,028 --> 00:17:10,867
cherry crops now.

487
00:17:10,867 --> 00:17:12,665
People are actually looking at,

488
00:17:12,665 --> 00:17:15,933
you know, Jell-O's Fruits, David
Gein and the work he's done.

489
00:17:15,833 --> 00:17:19,050
He's planting in areas where most
people wouldn't have thought

490
00:17:19,050 --> 00:17:20,882
possible, but he's looking for
later cherries.

491
00:17:20,882 --> 00:17:25,920
So all the U.S., all of that warm
climate cherries are out of the

492
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:26,188
system.

493
00:17:26,188 --> 00:17:28,200
And he's the dominant player,

494
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,196
especially when it comes to Lunar
New Year, which I spent some time

495
00:17:32,196 --> 00:17:32,645
in China.

496
00:17:32,645 --> 00:17:34,438
And I can tell you, it is a huge

497
00:17:34,438 --> 00:17:35,271
deal in Asia.

498
00:17:35,271 --> 00:17:36,971
When you have red fruit that comes

499
00:17:36,971 --> 00:17:40,550
in in late August or early
September, you can ask whatever

500
00:17:40,550 --> 00:17:41,947
price you want.

501
00:17:41,947 --> 00:17:43,991
And so it's an important

502
00:17:43,891 --> 00:17:44,747
distinction about the Valley.

503
00:17:44,747 --> 00:17:46,745
And we're just how old my

504
00:17:46,745 --> 00:17:50,018
grandfather came here 110 years
ago or 125 years ago.

505
00:17:50,018 --> 00:17:52,794
And we're still you find I mean,
obviously, you feel there's still

506
00:17:52,794 --> 00:17:55,050
a lot of growth for the wine
industry.

507
00:17:55,050 --> 00:17:59,299
But I guess for somebody that's
newer in the industry or wants to

508
00:17:59,299 --> 00:18:03,769
start their own vineyard, is the
cost of land too expensive?

509
00:18:03,769 --> 00:18:06,317
Like it seems like a very hard
industry to be in.

510
00:18:06,417 --> 00:18:09,330
Do you have to be fairly well
established to be successful?

511
00:18:09,330 --> 00:18:12,574
Or is it not as volatile as it
seems?

512
00:18:12,574 --> 00:18:16,742
I guess, what would you do if you
were starting out, you know, brand

513
00:18:16,742 --> 00:18:19,877
new Well, I believe in living
within your means.

514
00:18:19,877 --> 00:18:23,341
And I think that if you're
starting out, if you're really

515
00:18:23,341 --> 00:18:25,192
determined, and there is an
opportunity, sometimes, you know,

516
00:18:25,192 --> 00:18:29,013
looking at family and other people
like that that are willing to

517
00:18:29,013 --> 00:18:30,792
believe and invest in that.

518
00:18:30,792 --> 00:18:32,498
As long as they understand that,

519
00:18:32,398 --> 00:18:34,780
you know, there's no five year
return on this business.

520
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:39,726
You've got to be in it for 10, 15
years to get to that point where

521
00:18:39,726 --> 00:18:41,903
the cash flow is coming in.

522
00:18:41,803 --> 00:18:44,071
You have the consistency and the

523
00:18:44,071 --> 00:18:48,169
wines and then, you and then
you're paying back the debt that

524
00:18:48,169 --> 00:18:50,172
you may have acquired on the land.

525
00:18:50,072 --> 00:18:52,267
But in the end term, if there's an

526
00:18:52,267 --> 00:18:55,036
opportunity to buy good land and
it makes sense, if you're looking

527
00:18:54,936 --> 00:18:59,741
at the land price and you're going
to say, oh yeah, I'm going to make

528
00:18:59,641 --> 00:19:02,297
5% return on that land, which
would be probably low considering

529
00:19:02,297 --> 00:19:06,129
today's interest rates, I think
that the situation is that you

530
00:19:06,129 --> 00:19:09,364
probably have to look at it
differently than that.

531
00:19:09,364 --> 00:19:13,066
It can be very stable and
rewarding in terms of the

532
00:19:13,166 --> 00:19:14,208
satisfaction you get.

533
00:19:14,208 --> 00:19:15,985
But if you're looking at it just

534
00:19:15,985 --> 00:19:19,820
as a complete play on return, it's
probably not the place to start

535
00:19:19,820 --> 00:19:20,049
out.

536
00:19:20,049 --> 00:19:21,344
is a passion project.

537
00:19:21,344 --> 00:19:23,620
You got to love what you're doing.

538
00:19:23,620 --> 00:19:25,287
When I mentioned that I was

539
00:19:25,287 --> 00:19:27,677
selling those Pinot Noir grapes to
the other small wineries in the

540
00:19:27,677 --> 00:19:30,906
Valley, there's a handful of
people that had that passion that

541
00:19:30,906 --> 00:19:32,146
started out in the industry.

542
00:19:32,146 --> 00:19:33,678
And I was fortunate to be

543
00:19:33,678 --> 00:19:35,940
introduced to them right at their
very starting point.

544
00:19:36,220 --> 00:19:40,369
And some of them have passed on,
but I think what it is, is that

545
00:19:40,369 --> 00:19:41,802
the industry has developed so
much.

546
00:19:41,902 --> 00:19:51,517
And I'll give you the best example
is what we used to call September

547
00:19:51,332 --> 00:19:51,532
Fest.

548
00:19:51,492 --> 00:19:52,287
We were trying to get people to

549
00:19:52,178 --> 00:19:53,257
come to the valley for tourism in
September and October when it was

550
00:19:53,253 --> 00:19:54,460
dead quiet because they'd leave
after summer and then they'd go

551
00:19:54,397 --> 00:19:54,447
home.

552
00:19:54,443 --> 00:19:56,237
So it was people like Trudy and

553
00:19:56,237 --> 00:19:58,462
George Heiss and others, but they
were too instrumental in the

554
00:19:58,462 --> 00:20:00,185
Okanagan Wine Festival to help
build that.

555
00:20:00,185 --> 00:20:04,391
And now our bigger problem is, you
know, what do we do in the slow

556
00:20:04,391 --> 00:20:07,193
months in November and January?
You know, and you look at the

557
00:20:07,293 --> 00:20:09,063
diversity of products that are
being produced here that are

558
00:20:09,063 --> 00:20:10,231
finding their way into
restaurants.

559
00:20:10,231 --> 00:20:12,745
I think if I was down at the
Penticton Farmer's Market, where

560
00:20:12,745 --> 00:20:15,178
my son lives in Penticton, picking
up some Hivology honey that is

561
00:20:15,178 --> 00:20:16,123
like, it's amazing.

562
00:20:16,122 --> 00:20:18,800
I know it's not the only ones, but

563
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:23,325
the diversity of what can be grown
in this valley, it's not

564
00:20:23,325 --> 00:20:26,775
limitless, but I can tell you that
there's a lot of people that

565
00:20:26,775 --> 00:20:28,755
really do some great things.

566
00:20:28,755 --> 00:20:31,560
So it adds to the tourism and more

567
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,371
about a year-round tourism
opportunity for people.

568
00:20:33,371 --> 00:20:34,521
So that's the difference.

569
00:20:34,521 --> 00:20:36,593
When George and Trudy started out,

570
00:20:36,593 --> 00:20:39,626
they were looking at a business
that really from May long weekend

571
00:20:39,626 --> 00:20:42,044
until September long weekend, that
was their window to selling.

572
00:20:42,044 --> 00:20:45,346
And then they had the liquor board
and other people like that.

573
00:20:45,346 --> 00:20:46,592
So it's changed a lot.

574
00:20:46,592 --> 00:20:48,648
Well, I guess that's kind of my

575
00:20:48,648 --> 00:20:49,333
next question.

576
00:20:49,333 --> 00:20:51,490
And it may segue more into the MLA

577
00:20:51,490 --> 00:20:53,264
government topics with obviously
recent legislation changes on

578
00:20:53,264 --> 00:20:54,380
short term rentals.

579
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:55,777
Like what profit margin is built

580
00:20:55,777 --> 00:20:57,235
for you guys as an industry on
tourism?

581
00:20:57,335 --> 00:21:00,559
Are the recent decisions going to
be very impactful in terms of wine

582
00:21:00,559 --> 00:21:02,998
tasting tours, people buying your
product from the actual vendor

583
00:21:02,998 --> 00:21:06,853
directly, or are now we looking at
more exporting more of that wine?

584
00:21:06,853 --> 00:21:10,438
How does that look for guys?
Well, the existence of a small

585
00:21:10,438 --> 00:21:12,919
wine region like the Okanagan and
St. Milcomaine, Fraser Valley, and

586
00:21:12,919 --> 00:21:15,625
even Vancouver Island, the Gulf
Islands, these are very small

587
00:21:15,625 --> 00:21:19,912
areas in terms of their overall
scope and what they have to work

588
00:21:19,912 --> 00:21:20,199
with.

589
00:21:20,199 --> 00:21:22,849
Even a winery of our size where

590
00:21:22,849 --> 00:21:25,126
we're farming about 400 plus
acres, we find it difficult to

591
00:21:25,126 --> 00:21:28,457
supply product in Canada to some
of the markets like Ontario and

592
00:21:28,457 --> 00:21:28,677
Quebec.

593
00:21:28,677 --> 00:21:30,723
We've actually had to just exit

594
00:21:30,723 --> 00:21:33,784
those markets because of the
supply issues we've faced over the

595
00:21:33,784 --> 00:21:34,875
last two years.

596
00:21:34,875 --> 00:21:35,389
They're lower margin.

597
00:21:35,389 --> 00:21:38,839
The margins that really make us
survive and keep people employed,

598
00:21:38,839 --> 00:21:43,102
and really the expertise that we
employ, is because of the farm

599
00:21:43,002 --> 00:21:45,279
gate sales and what we do at the
farm gate.

600
00:21:45,179 --> 00:21:48,632
Hence, the reason why a lot of the
wineries have restaurants or

601
00:21:48,532 --> 00:21:49,074
picnicking areas.

602
00:21:49,174 --> 00:21:50,698
They have alternative areas to

603
00:21:50,698 --> 00:21:51,751
keep people there.

604
00:21:51,751 --> 00:21:52,919
So, wine clubs have become

605
00:21:52,919 --> 00:21:54,817
something that came into the news
recently.

606
00:21:54,817 --> 00:21:57,788
You heard about Alberta's decision
to cut all BC wines off.

607
00:21:57,788 --> 00:22:00,548
I want to get your opinion on
Yeah.

608
00:22:00,648 --> 00:22:01,426
Yes.

609
00:22:01,326 --> 00:22:03,483
I mean, take a small winery that

610
00:22:03,483 --> 00:22:06,464
could be in East Kelowna that
relies on the fact that people

611
00:22:06,464 --> 00:22:09,820
discover them, they love their
wines, and then they say, well,

612
00:22:09,980 --> 00:22:11,858
how do I find these?
Well, they're too small to sell

613
00:22:11,858 --> 00:22:13,476
into Alberta through the system.

614
00:22:13,476 --> 00:22:14,770
The LCB is set up there.

615
00:22:14,770 --> 00:22:15,370
It's a good system.

616
00:22:15,370 --> 00:22:16,458
It's different than BC.

617
00:22:16,458 --> 00:22:21,705
And so the only real way that they
can do it the way that Alberta

618
00:22:21,705 --> 00:22:26,120
wants to do it is they physically
have to come to the winery and

619
00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:31,535
pick it up and transport it back
as a sale that occurred in BC.

620
00:22:31,535 --> 00:22:36,169
We tried to change that when
Christy Clark was the premier and

621
00:22:36,169 --> 00:22:39,884
we opened up British Columbia to
wines from every other province,

622
00:22:39,884 --> 00:22:42,087
Quebec, New Brunswick, Nova
Scotia, let alone Ontario,

623
00:22:42,087 --> 00:22:44,857
bringing wines in tax-free into
our marketplace, as well as

624
00:22:44,857 --> 00:22:46,420
selling through our liquor board.

625
00:22:46,420 --> 00:22:49,387
And some of them tried, but I

626
00:22:49,387 --> 00:22:54,631
think at the end of the day,
Alberta has been kind of an

627
00:22:54,631 --> 00:22:55,076
outlier.

628
00:22:55,076 --> 00:22:57,247
And I find it completely unfair.

629
00:22:57,247 --> 00:22:59,951
One of the things that they've
been telling our government is

630
00:22:59,951 --> 00:23:04,679
that they want to have access for
craft spirits and beers into the

631
00:23:04,679 --> 00:23:06,039
British Columbia market.

632
00:23:06,039 --> 00:23:07,263
Well, you know, the craft

633
00:23:07,263 --> 00:23:10,539
distillery business in British
Columbia and the craft beer

634
00:23:10,539 --> 00:23:13,077
business is very much regulated by
like the wine authority.

635
00:23:13,077 --> 00:23:16,164
They have rules that mean that
they have to create agricultural

636
00:23:16,164 --> 00:23:17,889
products in British Columbia.

637
00:23:17,889 --> 00:23:20,077
And I'm thinking of the story I

638
00:23:20,077 --> 00:23:23,789
visited about 10 years ago as the
Minister of Agriculture.

639
00:23:23,689 --> 00:23:25,805
It's outside of Comox Valley
called Shelter Point.

640
00:23:25,805 --> 00:23:26,619
They produce everything right
there.

641
00:23:26,619 --> 00:23:27,734
That's the whole intent.

642
00:23:27,734 --> 00:23:29,227
And Alberta, I don't think they

643
00:23:29,227 --> 00:23:31,255
have any rules or regulations.

644
00:23:31,255 --> 00:23:34,330
And we'd be happy to welcome them

645
00:23:34,330 --> 00:23:36,161
if they had things that promoted
that.

646
00:23:36,161 --> 00:23:40,498
But we're not going to tolerate
the fact that they can just import

647
00:23:40,498 --> 00:23:42,224
from a cheap source.

648
00:23:42,224 --> 00:23:43,367
They can get whatever products

649
00:23:43,527 --> 00:23:46,240
they need to manufacture spirits
and have that classified as

650
00:23:46,460 --> 00:23:49,184
Alberta craft distillers and then
import into the province and give

651
00:23:49,184 --> 00:23:50,364
them shelf space.

652
00:23:50,364 --> 00:23:53,440
So this is part of what's gone on

653
00:23:53,500 --> 00:23:55,412
with the BQA over the last 35, 40
years since we started that.

654
00:23:55,398 --> 00:23:58,540
It's been a slow, steady climb to
make it so that we are consistent

655
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,245
and people know that the products
are authentic British Columbia

656
00:24:01,225 --> 00:24:01,540
products.

657
00:24:01,620 --> 00:24:03,002
They're not something that, you

658
00:24:03,002 --> 00:24:05,749
know, we didn't just buy in some
grapes from, you know, Washington

659
00:24:05,749 --> 00:24:07,141
State, manufacture them here and
call them Right.

660
00:24:07,141 --> 00:24:09,199
I guess going back to the
vineyards struggling this year,

661
00:24:09,199 --> 00:24:12,938
for the end consumer, are we just
going to see less product on the

662
00:24:12,938 --> 00:24:14,599
shelves?
We won't import from anywhere else

663
00:24:14,599 --> 00:24:16,689
then?
I think in this particular case,

664
00:24:16,689 --> 00:24:21,439
this is an event that none of us,
even when we were writing the

665
00:24:21,339 --> 00:24:24,043
rules for VQA, We never foresaw
this.

666
00:24:24,043 --> 00:24:27,348
We always believed that there
would be the durability.

667
00:24:27,448 --> 00:24:32,607
And I mean, when we first started,
the first thing we started doing

668
00:24:32,607 --> 00:24:34,766
was trying to initiate export
sales because we thought we had

669
00:24:34,866 --> 00:24:36,520
way too many grapes in the ground.

670
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,784
Now you can't find a grape that

671
00:24:39,684 --> 00:24:43,473
goes for even the best years in
the last few.

672
00:24:43,473 --> 00:24:47,867
So I think that bringing in fruit
from outside of British Columbia,

673
00:24:47,867 --> 00:24:52,210
this is a very new experience, and
I know it's being discussed right

674
00:24:52,210 --> 00:24:52,923
now.

675
00:24:52,923 --> 00:24:55,133
And I've had many discussions with

676
00:24:55,133 --> 00:24:57,862
the minister responsible for
liquor regulations about how we

677
00:24:57,862 --> 00:24:58,750
could do this.

678
00:24:58,850 --> 00:25:02,224
And I said, it really has to be on

679
00:25:02,224 --> 00:25:04,302
an interim, short-term basis.

680
00:25:04,302 --> 00:25:07,444
And what we're going to lose if we

681
00:25:07,444 --> 00:25:09,362
don't do this is we're going to
lose the talent.

682
00:25:09,362 --> 00:25:11,977
And I know this is already
happening.

683
00:25:11,977 --> 00:25:16,160
There has been people that have
been let go from positions.

684
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,312
And these are people that have
decades of experience here in the

685
00:25:20,312 --> 00:25:20,502
Valley.

686
00:25:20,502 --> 00:25:22,214
And the industry needs those

687
00:25:22,214 --> 00:25:25,577
people and needs to keep, you
know, the engine running on the

688
00:25:25,677 --> 00:25:26,073
grape industry.

689
00:25:26,073 --> 00:25:27,936
And, you know, if you look around,

690
00:25:27,936 --> 00:25:28,867
there's 461 land-based wineries.

691
00:25:28,867 --> 00:25:30,549
There's only three wineries that

692
00:25:30,449 --> 00:25:33,478
commercially import and make
product here from imported fruit.

693
00:25:33,478 --> 00:25:38,504
And that's because they were in
the business long before we came

694
00:25:38,504 --> 00:25:40,119
up with the estate winery
legislation.

695
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,025
Been some consolidation in that,
but it's not the area that's

696
00:25:43,025 --> 00:25:43,550
growing.

697
00:25:43,550 --> 00:25:45,563
Even, you know, the best of the

698
00:25:45,563 --> 00:25:48,014
commercial wineries, they're
proudest of their products that

699
00:25:48,114 --> 00:25:50,640
they sell that they produce from
domestic supply.

700
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,890
So we're all wanting the same
thing, but we don't want to lose

701
00:25:53,890 --> 00:25:54,075
people.

702
00:25:54,075 --> 00:25:57,220
And we want to make certain that

703
00:25:57,220 --> 00:26:00,199
just because of this event, which
has been very serious, we can get

704
00:26:00,299 --> 00:26:00,657
through this.

705
00:26:00,757 --> 00:26:04,039
I think that's the So going back

706
00:26:04,039 --> 00:26:08,545
to Alberta, Ben, what should the
BC government or what can and

707
00:26:08,545 --> 00:26:11,162
should we be doing to push back
against this?

708
00:26:11,162 --> 00:26:13,698
Is there anything we should do?
Well, I think that the BC

709
00:26:13,698 --> 00:26:15,873
government is perplexed by why
Alberta would do this.

710
00:26:15,873 --> 00:26:18,760
And I'll give you another unknown
or little known fact is that

711
00:26:19,180 --> 00:26:21,005
Alberta has a private distribution
system entirely.

712
00:26:21,005 --> 00:26:24,883
They closed their liquor stores
back about 30 years ago and made

713
00:26:24,883 --> 00:26:28,070
it so that anybody could get a
liquor license.

714
00:26:27,970 --> 00:26:30,386
And they immediately went to like
800 or 900 licenses.

715
00:26:30,386 --> 00:26:33,159
They have more products or SKUs in
Alberta than any other

716
00:26:33,159 --> 00:26:33,562
jurisdiction in Canada.

717
00:26:33,562 --> 00:26:34,468
Ontario even, are buying products

718
00:26:34,468 --> 00:26:37,366
from Alberta that are coming in to
their jurisdiction and they're

719
00:26:37,366 --> 00:26:38,964
being sold as if it was legal.

720
00:26:38,964 --> 00:26:40,736
But frankly, if you're going to

721
00:26:40,736 --> 00:26:43,565
follow Alberta's methodology in
this, they're basically violating

722
00:26:43,465 --> 00:26:43,996
other liquor jurisdictions.

723
00:26:43,996 --> 00:26:47,475
So I hate to say it, but I think

724
00:26:47,475 --> 00:26:52,376
Alberta might be in for a rough
ride with the Canadian Association

725
00:26:52,376 --> 00:26:55,974
of Liquor Jurisdictions to make
certain that they're looking in

726
00:26:55,874 --> 00:26:58,185
their own backyard before they
start, you know, calling out BC

727
00:26:58,285 --> 00:26:59,494
small wineries.

728
00:26:59,594 --> 00:27:01,601
I mean, I even checked on what

729
00:27:01,601 --> 00:27:02,256
Quails Gate's selling.

730
00:27:02,256 --> 00:27:03,709
It's a fraction of what we

731
00:27:03,709 --> 00:27:04,000
produce.

732
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:05,323
You know, it's a few hundred cases

733
00:27:05,323 --> 00:27:08,041
versus, you know, we make tens of
thousands.

734
00:27:08,041 --> 00:27:10,218
So we've stopped shipping to
Alberta because of this perceived

735
00:27:10,218 --> 00:27:10,588
inequity.

736
00:27:10,588 --> 00:27:12,500
If anything, I think that they're

737
00:27:12,500 --> 00:27:14,046
probably looking for something
else.

738
00:27:14,046 --> 00:27:18,255
And I don't know, maybe they don't
like our policy in British

739
00:27:18,155 --> 00:27:21,995
Columbia on carbon tax or, you
know, oil and gas, whatever it is.

740
00:27:21,995 --> 00:27:27,941
Well, maybe walk us through kind
of your role as MLA and what

741
00:27:27,941 --> 00:27:31,460
you're trying to achieve in the
next few years, because obviously

742
00:27:31,460 --> 00:27:33,155
it's a pretty dynamic role now.

743
00:27:33,155 --> 00:27:34,668
Well, I've had the good fortune of

744
00:27:34,668 --> 00:27:39,064
serving in government for almost
15 years and been minister many

745
00:27:39,064 --> 00:27:39,518
times over.

746
00:27:39,518 --> 00:27:41,960
Today, currently, I'm a critic, a

747
00:27:41,860 --> 00:27:43,329
shadow minister for tourism and
trade.

748
00:27:43,429 --> 00:27:45,209
I've had other critic roles.

749
00:27:45,209 --> 00:27:47,520
But one of the things that we're

750
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,098
trying to do is make certain we
hold the government accountable.

751
00:27:50,998 --> 00:27:53,475
And that's what the opposition
parties do in a situation where

752
00:27:53,475 --> 00:27:54,276
you have government.

753
00:27:54,276 --> 00:27:55,201
Do they listen?

754
00:27:55,201 --> 00:27:55,571
Well, sometimes.

755
00:27:55,671 --> 00:27:57,420
You know, I mean, surprisingly, I

756
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,933
had a call from the Minister of
Housing yesterday about an event

757
00:28:01,933 --> 00:28:05,147
that's going on in Kelowna to deal
with one of the BC housing

758
00:28:05,147 --> 00:28:05,333
projects.

759
00:28:05,333 --> 00:28:06,384
There's a structural issue with

760
00:28:06,384 --> 00:28:08,402
the downtown building that's going
up that's very high.

761
00:28:08,402 --> 00:28:11,530
Kelowna, you know, I mean, when
you're building two and three

762
00:28:11,530 --> 00:28:14,371
story walk-up apartments, those
aren't quite the same foundations

763
00:28:14,371 --> 00:28:17,166
in the geotechnical work that
needs to be done with buildings

764
00:28:17,166 --> 00:28:18,564
that are over 40 stories.

765
00:28:18,564 --> 00:28:21,617
And so there is an impact.

766
00:28:21,617 --> 00:28:24,578
And so this is impacting residents
in the downtown area, whether it's

767
00:28:24,578 --> 00:28:25,917
homes or apartments or
condominiums.

768
00:28:25,917 --> 00:28:28,243
So we were talking about that.

769
00:28:28,243 --> 00:28:29,512
Usually I hear from them about

770
00:28:29,612 --> 00:28:32,896
what the cities are deciding to do
with short-term rentals and

771
00:28:32,896 --> 00:28:46,361
whether they like the rules or
don't like them.

772
00:28:46,361 --> 00:28:48,300
I would say that my goal is to be
thoughtful and long-term in terms

773
00:28:48,297 --> 00:28:49,054
of what it is we're trying to do.

774
00:28:49,154 --> 00:28:50,120
I say that meaning that some of

775
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:55,857
the recent changes that have been
brought in through legislation.

776
00:28:55,757 --> 00:28:58,189
Last November, we had quite a
number of bills that went through

777
00:28:58,189 --> 00:28:58,627
in terms of housing.

778
00:28:58,627 --> 00:29:00,542
I mean, there is a housing

779
00:29:00,542 --> 00:29:02,723
shortage, but why is that shortage
there?

780
00:29:02,723 --> 00:29:06,846
It's caused by, in my opinion, the
fact that you need to incentivize

781
00:29:06,746 --> 00:29:09,695
and make certain that things are
happening in the sense that

782
00:29:09,695 --> 00:29:10,500
development is happening.

783
00:29:10,500 --> 00:29:12,686
Now, in a lot of cases, prior to

784
00:29:12,786 --> 00:29:15,995
all of these rules being changed,
and I would say using sledgehammer

785
00:29:15,895 --> 00:29:18,977
when maybe the carrot approach
would have been more desirable, I

786
00:29:18,977 --> 00:29:22,656
think a lot of communities were
struggling with trying to get land

787
00:29:22,656 --> 00:29:23,929
use planning done.

788
00:29:23,929 --> 00:29:25,434
I have to commend Kelowna because

789
00:29:25,534 --> 00:29:27,807
at UVCM, they brought out their
new program that's using

790
00:29:27,807 --> 00:29:30,279
artificial intelligence to help
make it easier for people that

791
00:29:30,379 --> 00:29:34,363
have the correct zoning to being
able to get to a building permit

792
00:29:34,363 --> 00:29:34,767
very quickly.

793
00:29:34,767 --> 00:29:36,053
They offered it for free right

794
00:29:36,053 --> 00:29:38,251
around British Columbia and the
rest of the country.

795
00:29:38,251 --> 00:29:38,518
It's phenomenal.

796
00:29:38,518 --> 00:29:41,760
And I told Doug Gilchrist that I

797
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,775
think it's probably one of the
most forward-looking things I've

798
00:29:45,775 --> 00:29:48,148
seen a municipality do in my
lifetime.

799
00:29:48,148 --> 00:29:54,444
But on the other hand, the idea of
imposing on an entire municipality

800
00:29:54,444 --> 00:29:59,768
the idea that all of a sudden, you
know, you can put six lots on an

801
00:29:59,768 --> 00:30:01,270
individual single-family site, I
don't think that that's very

802
00:30:01,269 --> 00:30:06,257
appropriate in terms of, you know,
the form and character.

803
00:30:06,257 --> 00:30:11,000
And that kind of takes away what
local government is supposed to be

804
00:30:11,420 --> 00:30:11,581
doing.

805
00:30:11,681 --> 00:30:13,089
So the problem really, in my

806
00:30:13,089 --> 00:30:15,134
opinion, is that immigration in
the country has skyrocketed.

807
00:30:15,134 --> 00:30:17,787
Premier Eby and I talked about
this at the end of session.

808
00:30:17,787 --> 00:30:21,397
We had about an hour on a plane
flight together, and we were

809
00:30:21,397 --> 00:30:26,080
talking about the impacts and how
could we really deal with this?

810
00:30:26,003 --> 00:30:29,842
They feel that they've been forced
into this partially because of the

811
00:30:29,742 --> 00:30:33,649
allowance of over half a million
new immigrants coming into Canada

812
00:30:33,649 --> 00:30:34,332
every year.

813
00:30:34,332 --> 00:30:35,243
That's a staggering number.

814
00:30:35,243 --> 00:30:38,405
That's a doubling in the last two
or three years.

815
00:30:38,405 --> 00:30:43,097
You can't do that without having a
place for these people to stay.

816
00:30:43,097 --> 00:30:47,100
So I think that it's a combination
of even though there was a

817
00:30:47,100 --> 00:30:49,904
shortage of maybe available
workers the right age and things

818
00:30:49,904 --> 00:30:52,640
like that, you can't do it without
having enough capacity.

819
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:53,816
And we basically dropped the ball.

820
00:30:53,816 --> 00:30:55,343
And I think that both federal and

821
00:30:55,343 --> 00:30:56,593
provincial governments needed to
be incentivizing.

822
00:30:56,593 --> 00:31:00,254
What were they doing with cities
like Kelowna and other communities

823
00:31:00,254 --> 00:31:02,344
to help them really create
ready-to-go projects funded

824
00:31:02,344 --> 00:31:04,340
properly and get out of the way.

825
00:31:04,340 --> 00:31:05,610
There's so much red tape.

826
00:31:05,610 --> 00:31:08,696
I mean, frankly, the red tape
that's been layered on the

827
00:31:08,696 --> 00:31:09,548
building industry, it's
staggering.

828
00:31:09,548 --> 00:31:12,471
I'm surprised by how much a per
square foot cost is.

829
00:31:12,471 --> 00:31:17,346
And I'm sure in your line of work,
you probably know it far better

830
00:31:17,446 --> 00:31:22,824
than I do, but I have a colleague
who is in the building industry

831
00:31:22,824 --> 00:31:26,305
and we're constantly amazed by all
of these layered on costs, let

832
00:31:26,305 --> 00:31:28,527
alone taxes that have been added
on to just everyday products.

833
00:31:28,527 --> 00:31:32,346
There's been 32 new or increased
taxes in the last seven years.

834
00:31:32,346 --> 00:31:35,511
You know, it adds up and it
doesn't matter.

835
00:31:35,511 --> 00:31:38,962
You know, we just are reflecting
on the former prime minister's

836
00:31:38,962 --> 00:31:42,756
passing, but he brought in the
GST, which was a value added tax.

837
00:31:42,856 --> 00:31:47,774
And I can't tell you that value
added taxes make a lot of sense

838
00:31:47,774 --> 00:31:51,039
and keep the taxes, the layering
on and the abuse that goes on.

839
00:31:51,039 --> 00:31:55,047
Because even now, the PST on every
last aspect is being applied on a

840
00:31:55,047 --> 00:31:56,160
piece of construction.

841
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,637
If we want to lower costs, we need

842
00:31:58,537 --> 00:32:01,040
to reduce costs that are
duplicated and layered on.

843
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,746
We need to make certain that
things are efficient and, you

844
00:32:04,746 --> 00:32:06,550
know, try to streamline things.

845
00:32:06,550 --> 00:32:08,686
So in my remaining, you know, time

846
00:32:08,786 --> 00:32:13,438
as MLA, I would like to think that
I could help the government see

847
00:32:13,438 --> 00:32:13,681
the light.

848
00:32:13,781 --> 00:32:15,388
But anyways, I'm working it.

849
00:32:15,388 --> 00:32:20,209
So if BC United gets back in
power, like, are we going to be

850
00:32:20,209 --> 00:32:23,925
reversing a lot of these things?
Are we going to be adjusting them?

851
00:32:23,925 --> 00:32:26,679
Like what's the plan?
That's what I was going to are we

852
00:32:26,679 --> 00:32:30,119
going to be reversing ask., like,
a lot of these things?

853
00:32:30,119 --> 00:32:34,220
Are we going to be adjusting them?
what's the plan?

854
00:32:34,220 --> 00:32:37,234
Like, That's what I was going to
ask, because, like, how easy is it

855
00:32:37,234 --> 00:32:39,198
to reverse bills and taxes once
they're already passed?

856
00:32:39,198 --> 00:32:41,503
All you have to do is bring in the
legislation.

857
00:32:41,503 --> 00:32:44,860
When I first got elected with
Gordon Campbell in 2009, we went

858
00:32:44,860 --> 00:32:47,041
from the polls straight into the
legislature.

859
00:32:47,041 --> 00:32:51,584
And we were doing bills that
summer that, you know, I was new.

860
00:32:51,684 --> 00:32:55,716
But I can tell you in 2001, when
he first got elected as premier,

861
00:32:55,716 --> 00:32:59,133
they made it a priority to reduce
the costs of doing business and

862
00:32:59,133 --> 00:33:01,060
taxes so that they could get the
economy running again.

863
00:33:01,060 --> 00:33:04,904
Now, what people fail to realize
is that in 2001, when Gordon

864
00:33:04,904 --> 00:33:07,580
Campbell first got elected, The
province of British Columbia was

865
00:33:07,580 --> 00:33:11,924
in last place in Canada in terms
of economic activity, the highest

866
00:33:11,924 --> 00:33:12,520
in taxes.

867
00:33:12,700 --> 00:33:14,167
That story is playing out again.

868
00:33:14,167 --> 00:33:16,122
You can't keep doing that.

869
00:33:16,122 --> 00:33:18,088
You can't keep taxing and

870
00:33:18,088 --> 00:33:20,604
expecting that all of these
services are free.

871
00:33:20,604 --> 00:33:21,862
They cost money.

872
00:33:21,862 --> 00:33:25,488
And I think that it's about the

873
00:33:25,488 --> 00:33:25,710
results.

874
00:33:25,710 --> 00:33:27,349
So Kevin Falcon was in there in

875
00:33:27,349 --> 00:33:27,549
2001.

876
00:33:27,548 --> 00:33:28,745
He was the minister responsible

877
00:33:28,645 --> 00:33:29,443
for red tape production.

878
00:33:29,443 --> 00:33:31,446
And Kevin, of all people, knows

879
00:33:31,346 --> 00:33:34,171
more about what type of red tape.

880
00:33:34,171 --> 00:33:36,054
But I can assure you that the

881
00:33:36,054 --> 00:33:37,887
regulatory things, and I'll give
you a good example.

882
00:33:37,887 --> 00:33:40,391
Like there's a camp that I
attended up West Side Road as a

883
00:33:40,391 --> 00:33:42,278
kid called Camp Oasey, built in
1950.

884
00:33:42,278 --> 00:33:47,523
And they just today were putting
out a news release that they're in

885
00:33:47,423 --> 00:33:50,214
paralysis because of all of the
archaeological digging and

886
00:33:50,214 --> 00:33:53,766
requirements, which means that
they will physically have to take

887
00:33:53,766 --> 00:33:57,020
the entire site and sift through
and make certain that the

888
00:33:57,020 --> 00:34:00,382
artifacts or whatever might be
there is not, you know, on top of

889
00:34:00,382 --> 00:34:01,222
something that's historically
significant.

890
00:34:01,222 --> 00:34:04,965
And I don't blame them, but the
province should be behind

891
00:34:04,965 --> 00:34:05,653
something like that.

892
00:34:05,653 --> 00:34:07,444
That's a huge community need for

893
00:34:07,444 --> 00:34:10,163
thousands of young children that
spend their summers on Lake

894
00:34:10,163 --> 00:34:12,202
Okanagan, learning skills away
from their family.

895
00:34:12,202 --> 00:34:16,492
And the fact is that that can't be
rebuilt because of increased red

896
00:34:16,492 --> 00:34:16,744
tape.

897
00:34:16,744 --> 00:34:18,340
And it's worse because there's

898
00:34:18,340 --> 00:34:21,760
been suggestions that there's
going to be joint land use

899
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,960
decision making, meaning that
anything on the land base will be

900
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,005
approved jointly between
Indigenous and government bodies.

901
00:34:27,005 --> 00:34:29,016
And it's very difficult to get
anything done.

902
00:34:29,016 --> 00:34:31,574
And that's kind of why we have
Parliament.

903
00:34:31,675 --> 00:34:35,408
And I mean, as much as the history
might not be palatable to

904
00:34:35,408 --> 00:34:38,877
everybody, the end of the day, the
system is there, it's well known.

905
00:34:38,777 --> 00:34:42,054
And the fact is that we've been
doing a lot of things to try to

906
00:34:41,952 --> 00:34:43,090
help build economic capacity for
especially First Nations that are

907
00:34:43,090 --> 00:34:43,290
isolated.

908
00:34:43,286 --> 00:34:44,110
And I wouldn't say that locally

909
00:34:44,110 --> 00:34:44,849
there is in that situation.

910
00:34:44,811 --> 00:34:44,956
But I think that the idea that

911
00:34:44,953 --> 00:34:45,266
they don't have the capacity to do
all of the permit work that's

912
00:34:45,087 --> 00:34:45,286
required.

913
00:34:45,114 --> 00:34:45,300
So I've got companies that have

914
00:34:45,205 --> 00:34:46,936
been waiting on permits now for
five years to put in or replace

915
00:34:46,936 --> 00:34:49,565
damaged docks after the high water
event in 2017, can't put new

916
00:34:49,565 --> 00:34:49,862
docks.

917
00:34:49,862 --> 00:34:52,036
I'll give you the best way to

918
00:34:52,036 --> 00:34:52,216
describe this.

919
00:34:52,216 --> 00:34:53,685
The public service was about

920
00:34:53,685 --> 00:34:54,744
360,000 members in 2017.

921
00:34:54,744 --> 00:34:57,220
It's now about 40% higher at

922
00:34:57,220 --> 00:34:57,860
500,000 employees.

923
00:34:57,860 --> 00:35:00,660
And I don't think that the

924
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:02,576
permitting process is fed up at
all.

925
00:35:02,576 --> 00:35:04,351
If anything, it's in paralysis
through rules.

926
00:35:04,351 --> 00:35:06,620
And frankly, we've got to get out
of that.

927
00:35:06,780 --> 00:35:09,922
We've got to make it so that
there's common sense and practical

928
00:35:09,922 --> 00:35:10,521
things.

929
00:35:10,521 --> 00:35:12,840
So that's what the BC United Party

930
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:13,432
is about.

931
00:35:13,432 --> 00:35:14,171
It's about results.

932
00:35:14,171 --> 00:35:14,984
We've proven before.

933
00:35:14,984 --> 00:35:17,055
We've lived within our means.

934
00:35:17,055 --> 00:35:21,316
Who could take over a budget of
$47 billion with a $3 billion

935
00:35:21,316 --> 00:35:24,409
surplus?
And now it's over $80 billion is

936
00:35:24,409 --> 00:35:28,864
what the spend is this year with
an $8 billion surplus and a

937
00:35:28,864 --> 00:35:31,033
doubling of the provincial debt.

938
00:35:31,033 --> 00:35:33,009
That's how fast things have

939
00:35:33,009 --> 00:35:34,560
changed at the provincial
government.

940
00:35:34,460 --> 00:35:37,819
So I don't know how partisan you
want me to get.

941
00:35:37,819 --> 00:35:41,242
But anyways, these are numbers
that are upsetting because at the

942
00:35:41,242 --> 00:35:44,678
end of the day, my children and
grandchildren are the ones that

943
00:35:44,678 --> 00:35:47,940
are going to be forced to have to
square that up.

944
00:35:48,620 --> 00:35:50,082
And you can't tax an unanalyst
supply.

945
00:35:50,082 --> 00:35:52,493
There's reasons for taxation, but
I think that we've got to be

946
00:35:52,493 --> 00:35:52,699
realistic.

947
00:35:52,699 --> 00:35:55,101
We've got to have an economy that

948
00:35:55,101 --> 00:35:55,376
supports it.

949
00:35:55,376 --> 00:35:58,046
I mean, it's so dismal at this

950
00:35:58,046 --> 00:35:58,128
point.

951
00:35:58,128 --> 00:36:00,432
I wonder if you even want to take

952
00:36:00,432 --> 00:36:01,849
it over, really.

953
00:36:01,749 --> 00:36:05,093
But like, how do you recover from

954
00:36:05,093 --> 00:36:07,260
this deficit?
Like, obviously, you know, there's

955
00:36:07,260 --> 00:36:09,495
a very strategic plan in place.

956
00:36:09,495 --> 00:36:11,803
But I guess, what's the forecast?

957
00:36:11,803 --> 00:36:16,735
Like, how long do you feel that
it's going to take to recover from

958
00:36:16,735 --> 00:36:18,995
the damage that's been done?
things in balance.

959
00:36:18,995 --> 00:36:21,402
The debt was something that we
worked And on.

960
00:36:21,502 --> 00:36:25,696
I know Mike DeYoung, who is our
last finance minister in 2017, one

961
00:36:25,696 --> 00:36:30,307
of his last acts as finance
minister was to sign off on paying

962
00:36:30,207 --> 00:36:33,235
the last of the provincial
operating debt off and making

963
00:36:33,235 --> 00:36:35,380
certain that that was completely
paid off.

964
00:36:35,380 --> 00:36:39,957
And it's kind of disheartening for
Mike, whose brother lives in West

965
00:36:39,957 --> 00:36:43,547
Kelowna, to see that they've gone
right back to where they were

966
00:36:43,447 --> 00:36:43,642
before.

967
00:36:43,642 --> 00:36:46,241
I'll give you the best example.

968
00:36:46,241 --> 00:36:51,287
By not having to pay interest on
debt means that we have that extra

969
00:36:51,287 --> 00:36:55,225
money to put into things to make
things more affordable, seniors,

970
00:36:55,225 --> 00:36:57,311
healthcare, and things like that.

971
00:36:57,311 --> 00:36:59,124
We increase spending every year.

972
00:36:59,224 --> 00:37:01,958
There was not a year where we
didn't increase education,

973
00:37:01,858 --> 00:37:02,063
healthcare.

974
00:37:02,063 --> 00:37:03,781
We came out with all sorts of

975
00:37:03,781 --> 00:37:06,785
great programs for seniors about
affordable housing and things like

976
00:37:06,785 --> 00:37:07,019
that.

977
00:37:07,119 --> 00:37:08,971
But I still think, you know,

978
00:37:08,971 --> 00:37:12,190
there's things that we could
always have done better, I guess,

979
00:37:12,190 --> 00:37:12,700
or longer term.

980
00:37:12,700 --> 00:37:14,570
I think that the shortage of

981
00:37:14,570 --> 00:37:18,345
housing and looking at
demographics is difficult for

982
00:37:18,345 --> 00:37:20,519
people to kind of anticipate that.

983
00:37:20,519 --> 00:37:23,497
But I do think that we had a

984
00:37:23,497 --> 00:37:26,120
really good jobs plan that was
done under Christy Clark and

985
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:26,931
Shirley Bond.

986
00:37:26,931 --> 00:37:29,038
And that jobs plan showed where we

987
00:37:29,138 --> 00:37:32,962
needed workers to develop the LNG
industry and all of the

988
00:37:32,962 --> 00:37:36,180
infrastructure that we needed,
whether it was ports or cities and

989
00:37:36,180 --> 00:37:39,733
a lot of projects that we actually
had planned on.

990
00:37:39,633 --> 00:37:41,681
I'll give you a good example.

991
00:37:41,681 --> 00:37:42,910
Mills Hospital in Terrace, right

992
00:37:42,910 --> 00:37:45,940
outside of Kitimat, is just coming
to completion.

993
00:37:45,940 --> 00:37:51,636
It's a massive increase in
healthcare up in the Northwest.

994
00:37:51,636 --> 00:37:58,666
And I would say that, you know,
it's only part of the plan, but

995
00:37:58,666 --> 00:38:02,900
you've got to continue to do that
with schools and the hospitals and

996
00:38:03,540 --> 00:38:04,282
all the other things.

997
00:38:04,282 --> 00:38:05,652
And I know that there's lots of

998
00:38:05,652 --> 00:38:08,744
things that could be done, but I
always remember my dad's best

999
00:38:08,744 --> 00:38:12,196
friend, Bill Bennett, telling me
that, you know, Ben, you need to

1000
00:38:12,196 --> 00:38:16,215
make certain you spread the money
out and spend it within your

1001
00:38:16,215 --> 00:38:18,279
means, not to spend it all at
once.

1002
00:38:18,279 --> 00:38:21,444
You know, and they did some big
projects.

1003
00:38:21,444 --> 00:38:23,638
They did the Coquihalla Highways
back in the 80s.

1004
00:38:23,638 --> 00:38:26,564
And I mean, my goodness, where
would we be without the

1005
00:38:26,564 --> 00:38:27,880
Coquihalla?
Yeah, It's funny.

1006
00:38:28,140 --> 00:38:31,460
The new generation doesn't even
remember that there was a toll

1007
00:38:31,820 --> 00:38:31,935
there.

1008
00:38:31,935 --> 00:38:33,541
No. We always used to meet at

1009
00:38:33,541 --> 00:38:34,910
Tollbooth to go to Vancouver.

1010
00:38:34,810 --> 00:38:36,866
Now the new generation are like,

1011
00:38:36,866 --> 00:38:37,994
what's that?
No. Yeah, you're right.

1012
00:38:37,994 --> 00:38:41,312
Well, there was even food trucks
there, you know, and the washrooms

1013
00:38:41,312 --> 00:38:42,307
and things like that.

1014
00:38:42,307 --> 00:38:42,439
Yeah.

1015
00:38:42,439 --> 00:38:43,236
Anyways, you're right.

1016
00:38:43,236 --> 00:38:46,093
It was kind of a breaking point on

1017
00:38:46,092 --> 00:38:47,466
that highway.

1018
00:38:47,466 --> 00:38:49,323
And I was talking to Ian Payton,

1019
00:38:49,323 --> 00:38:50,600
who's the representative for Delta
South.

1020
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,420
And Ian was telling me when the
Massey Tunnel was open, his dad

1021
00:38:53,420 --> 00:38:56,334
used to have a little ticket book
and there was tolls on the Massey

1022
00:38:56,322 --> 00:38:57,298
Tunnel to go underneath.

1023
00:38:57,398 --> 00:38:58,622
And he was a farmer.

1024
00:38:58,622 --> 00:39:01,962
But it makes you think about when
you're going to travel.

1025
00:39:01,963 --> 00:39:25,699
It's going to cost me, I don't
know, 50 cents or a dollar,

1026
00:39:25,699 --> 00:39:26,191
whatever the tolls were.

1027
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:26,801
Even the Lake Okanagan Bridge had

1028
00:39:26,801 --> 00:39:28,134
tolls on it when I was a kid.

1029
00:39:28,129 --> 00:39:28,553
Oh, really?

1030
00:39:28,453 --> 00:39:29,068
I didn't know that.

1031
00:39:29,068 --> 00:39:29,701
So what happens is, you know,

1032
00:39:29,684 --> 00:39:30,817
they're short-lived, but with
tolls, we got things done.

1033
00:39:30,817 --> 00:39:32,534
And I give you the best example is
the Portman Bridge, which was one

1034
00:39:32,534 --> 00:39:35,314
of the things that opened up when
I was first a minister.

1035
00:39:35,314 --> 00:39:39,156
It costs a lot of money and we
couldn't even find companies in

1036
00:39:39,156 --> 00:39:42,842
British Columbia that had the
capacity to build that size of

1037
00:39:42,942 --> 00:39:45,274
bridge, a 10-lane bridge spanning
the Fraser River.

1038
00:39:45,274 --> 00:39:48,002
And so we had a corporation that
hired international companies that

1039
00:39:48,002 --> 00:39:50,726
built an amazing bridge, but there
was a toll on it.

1040
00:39:50,726 --> 00:39:53,699
But that was to fund the $3
billion it cost to build that

1041
00:39:53,699 --> 00:39:55,930
bridge and pay it off.

1042
00:39:55,830 --> 00:39:58,995
And I think that it was still a

1043
00:39:58,995 --> 00:40:01,940
good way to make people think
twice about, you know, using it.

1044
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:06,813
Whereas now, I mean, I look on,
you know, global in the morning

1045
00:40:06,813 --> 00:40:11,696
and I look at the congestion and
I'm thinking, geez, I'm glad I

1046
00:40:11,596 --> 00:40:12,492
don't live there.

1047
00:40:12,492 --> 00:40:14,105
But I have some regrets about

1048
00:40:14,105 --> 00:40:17,599
maybe the people that were faced
with having to pay that toll every

1049
00:40:17,599 --> 00:40:17,729
day.

1050
00:40:17,729 --> 00:40:20,642
And we needed to come up with a

1051
00:40:20,642 --> 00:40:23,423
different way to maybe toll it,
maybe just because of the

1052
00:40:23,423 --> 00:40:25,960
connection to Vancouver and all
the North Shore and stuff like

1053
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:26,226
that.

1054
00:40:26,226 --> 00:40:28,819
But at the end of the day, it's

1055
00:40:28,819 --> 00:40:29,351
completely off.

1056
00:40:29,351 --> 00:40:31,728
And that cost us about $300 or

1057
00:40:31,728 --> 00:40:33,314
$400 million a year in revenue.

1058
00:40:33,314 --> 00:40:36,340
So you can see right away, you can

1059
00:40:36,340 --> 00:40:39,319
take tolls off, which makes
congestion go up and increases the

1060
00:40:39,319 --> 00:40:39,981
debt.

1061
00:40:39,981 --> 00:40:42,380
I mean, all it's done is taken off

1062
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:48,281
the, you know, $3 or $4 a trip
that it did cost at the time and

1063
00:40:48,281 --> 00:40:50,297
made it, you know, frustrating.

1064
00:40:50,297 --> 00:40:52,155
So I chaired the Regional

1065
00:40:52,155 --> 00:40:53,535
Transportation Advisory Committee
when Falcon was Transportation

1066
00:40:53,435 --> 00:40:53,667
Minister.

1067
00:40:53,667 --> 00:40:54,889
We went all over the province

1068
00:40:54,889 --> 00:40:57,318
between really Highway 24, Alberta
border, south to the border to

1069
00:40:57,318 --> 00:40:57,502
Hope.

1070
00:40:57,502 --> 00:40:59,524
And we did town halls and we

1071
00:40:59,524 --> 00:41:02,026
listened and people told us they
wanted better highways and they

1072
00:41:02,126 --> 00:41:03,813
were willing to pay through a
toll.

1073
00:41:03,813 --> 00:41:05,913
They were happy with that.

1074
00:41:05,813 --> 00:41:07,771
And that's what we advised the

1075
00:41:07,671 --> 00:41:10,530
minister at the time, to continue
along that pathway, not to

1076
00:41:10,530 --> 00:41:13,960
eliminate them just for the sake
of, you know, kind of not having a

1077
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:14,172
toll.

1078
00:41:14,272 --> 00:41:15,513
So anyways, hasn't been listened

1079
00:41:15,513 --> 00:41:17,217
to and it's off now.

1080
00:41:17,217 --> 00:41:19,790
Ben, we do have to be conscious of

1081
00:41:19,890 --> 00:41:20,192
your time.

1082
00:41:20,292 --> 00:41:21,513
We appreciate everything so far.

1083
00:41:21,513 --> 00:41:26,110
We're just going to go into our
wrap-up questions if that's okay

1084
00:41:26,110 --> 00:41:26,710
with you.

1085
00:41:26,710 --> 00:41:26,960
Sure.

1086
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,032
If you could buy one property in
the Okanagan in the next 12

1087
00:41:30,032 --> 00:41:31,887
months, what would it be?
That's a question.

1088
00:41:31,887 --> 00:41:27,980
One property?
I'm working on renovating a

1089
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,488
property that I've owned for the
last 40 some years now.

1090
00:41:36,388 --> 00:41:40,000
And all I can say is that I've
gone around whether I should buy

1091
00:41:40,020 --> 00:41:40,514
elsewhere or renovate.

1092
00:41:40,514 --> 00:41:41,721
I've come to the conclusion to

1093
00:41:41,721 --> 00:41:42,160
renovate.

1094
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:44,880
You know, as you get older, I have

1095
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:49,343
to say that I told Rob Chattner,
he's building a big development or

1096
00:41:49,343 --> 00:41:51,923
a company that's bought things off
him up in Lakeview Village.

1097
00:41:51,923 --> 00:41:55,880
And I said, Rob, I'd buy in there
because as I get older, I'm going

1098
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,573
to need something where I don't
have to maintain the landscaping

1099
00:41:58,573 --> 00:42:00,080
and all the other things.

1100
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:01,641
But I'd be just as happy downtown

1101
00:42:01,641 --> 00:42:02,258
in Kelowna.

1102
00:42:02,158 --> 00:42:03,449
I mean, my goodness, the downtown

1103
00:42:03,449 --> 00:42:04,715
has changed so dramatically.

1104
00:42:04,715 --> 00:42:06,541
And I still, you know, look at

1105
00:42:06,541 --> 00:42:09,303
where I grew up and, you know, we
spent a lot of time in South

1106
00:42:09,303 --> 00:42:11,641
Kelowna where my parents had their
final home.

1107
00:42:11,641 --> 00:42:13,851
And you know what?
It's about what you need for a

1108
00:42:13,851 --> 00:42:14,017
lifestyle.

1109
00:42:14,017 --> 00:42:15,294
But I love the areas.

1110
00:42:15,394 --> 00:42:17,906
I was out in Lake Country
recently, up in Vernon the other

1111
00:42:17,906 --> 00:42:17,981
day.

1112
00:42:17,981 --> 00:42:19,469
And there's so much interesting

1113
00:42:19,469 --> 00:42:20,138
properties and diversity.

1114
00:42:20,138 --> 00:42:21,924
I talked to Blair Ireland, who's

1115
00:42:21,924 --> 00:42:24,710
the mayor of Lake Country, and
they've got challenges.

1116
00:42:24,710 --> 00:42:28,318
But I tell you what, he's got a
great and interesting community.

1117
00:42:28,318 --> 00:42:30,337
West Kelowna's got fabulous new
developments.

1118
00:42:30,337 --> 00:42:33,837
Peachland, the mayor there is
telling us about how much

1119
00:42:33,837 --> 00:42:35,592
development they've got going on.

1120
00:42:35,592 --> 00:42:37,296
I'll tell you what I like about

1121
00:42:37,296 --> 00:42:37,864
the Okanagan.

1122
00:42:37,864 --> 00:42:39,974
I like the fact that I'm on the

1123
00:42:39,974 --> 00:42:41,656
south-facing slope of Mount
Bushry.

1124
00:42:41,656 --> 00:42:44,895
And if it's south-facing, I like
that because we get about two

1125
00:42:44,895 --> 00:42:48,742
weeks less of winter than people
that live in the Mission.

1126
00:42:48,642 --> 00:42:51,957
Nothing against the mission, but
I'm just telling you that the fact

1127
00:42:51,857 --> 00:42:55,779
is that I can see the snow when
it's long since melted on our side

1128
00:42:55,679 --> 00:42:56,152
of the lake.

1129
00:42:56,152 --> 00:42:57,040
of the lake.

1130
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:00,717
That's why you didn't want to come
over today and do this in person.

1131
00:43:00,717 --> 00:43:02,795
Hey, you're scared of the you're
scared of the winter.

1132
00:43:02,795 --> 00:43:05,580
No, no, no. I plan my trips to
Kelowna very, you know, carefully.

1133
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,822
And I usually try to have two or
three stops and tomorrow afternoon

1134
00:43:08,822 --> 00:43:10,697
I have to do a few events.

1135
00:43:10,697 --> 00:43:12,776
And actually one of them is right

1136
00:43:12,876 --> 00:43:13,995
out near where you are.

1137
00:43:13,995 --> 00:43:16,209
And so anyways, you know, I try to

1138
00:43:16,309 --> 00:43:16,994
be thoughtful.

1139
00:43:16,994 --> 00:43:19,269
I mean, I don't try to be another

1140
00:43:19,269 --> 00:43:21,542
extra vehicle on the road.

1141
00:43:21,542 --> 00:43:24,121
And for a lot of what I do, I

1142
00:43:24,121 --> 00:43:25,293
can't take a bus.

1143
00:43:25,293 --> 00:43:27,010
So anyways, but my entire family,

1144
00:43:27,010 --> 00:43:29,012
like my sisters and brothers and
mother all live in Kelowna and

1145
00:43:29,012 --> 00:43:30,700
Southeast Kelowna and stuff like
that.

1146
00:43:30,860 --> 00:43:37,360
So if I want to see them, I have
to travel to that side of the lake

1147
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:41,158
unless I'm inviting them over to
the west side.

1148
00:43:41,258 --> 00:43:43,661
You're going to add to the mayhem.

1149
00:43:43,561 --> 00:43:45,008
All going to add to the mayhem.

1150
00:43:45,008 --> 00:43:45,732
All right.

1151
00:43:45,732 --> 00:43:47,574
What's some advice that you would

1152
00:43:47,574 --> 00:43:49,339
tell your 20-year-old self?
think I was fortunate.

1153
00:43:49,339 --> 00:43:52,530
I mean, I just grew up farming and
it was hard work.

1154
00:43:52,530 --> 00:43:55,358
I mean, I started right out of
school, working hard, getting a

1155
00:43:55,358 --> 00:43:57,733
job, and then I think work hard.

1156
00:43:57,733 --> 00:43:59,649
I mean, I think that that was a

1157
00:43:59,649 --> 00:44:01,704
part of it, trying to understand.

1158
00:44:01,704 --> 00:44:03,460
I had the good fortune of having

1159
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:08,443
probably more mature friends
because of the work environment.

1160
00:44:08,443 --> 00:44:11,160
I was in the banking industry and
I think it made me grow up in a

1161
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:11,641
hurry.

1162
00:44:11,641 --> 00:44:13,083
I say that meaning that, you know,

1163
00:44:13,083 --> 00:44:15,501
if you just put your head down and
you're disciplined, you know,

1164
00:44:15,501 --> 00:44:16,415
you'll get there.

1165
00:44:16,415 --> 00:44:19,085
And I'll give you a good example.

1166
00:44:19,085 --> 00:44:23,405
My first house I bought in
Medicine Hat cost me twenty eight

1167
00:44:23,405 --> 00:44:24,857
and a half thousand dollars.

1168
00:44:24,857 --> 00:44:29,872
And my dad lent me the down

1169
00:44:29,826 --> 00:44:29,920
payment of I think it was about
twenty five hundred dollars.

1170
00:44:29,905 --> 00:44:31,984
Maybe it was less than that.

1171
00:44:31,925 --> 00:44:36,280
But anyways, at the time, you

1172
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:37,003
know, it seemed like an
insurmountable amount, whatever my

1173
00:44:36,982 --> 00:44:37,187
mortgage was.

1174
00:44:37,287 --> 00:44:38,240
And anyways, I got through that.

1175
00:44:38,240 --> 00:44:39,586
I made a little bit, not much,
maybe a couple of thousand

1176
00:44:39,586 --> 00:44:40,942
dollars, then bought in Calgary.

1177
00:44:40,842 --> 00:44:42,486
And I had with Citibank, I had a

1178
00:44:42,586 --> 00:44:43,751
mortgage at five and eight
percent.

1179
00:44:43,751 --> 00:44:45,570
And they said, those are the
golden handcuffs.

1180
00:44:45,570 --> 00:44:48,354
Now that you know, you're in the
management team of Citibank.

1181
00:44:48,354 --> 00:44:52,187
And anyways, I made a little bit
there and then came to Kelowna and

1182
00:44:52,187 --> 00:44:55,894
bought my grandparents' old house
that my dad had acquired.

1183
00:44:55,894 --> 00:44:59,153
And we hit a little bit of a bump
on the market and bought the farm

1184
00:44:59,153 --> 00:45:01,036
I live anyways, on today.

1185
00:45:01,036 --> 00:45:03,120
So I think the thing about it is

1186
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:06,211
as long as you can afford it and
you got a little bit extra leeway

1187
00:45:06,211 --> 00:45:09,196
in your cash flow, you know, I
would be making investments.

1188
00:45:09,196 --> 00:45:10,580
Don't be turned off.

1189
00:45:10,580 --> 00:45:13,821
I mean, people talk about high

1190
00:45:13,721 --> 00:45:14,270
interest rates.

1191
00:45:14,270 --> 00:45:16,626
My goodness, when I started out, I

1192
00:45:16,626 --> 00:45:19,338
remember George Heist telling me
that his mortgage at Farm Credit

1193
00:45:19,438 --> 00:45:20,007
was about 16.5%.

1194
00:45:20,007 --> 00:45:22,934
And I thought, George, how are you

1195
00:45:22,934 --> 00:45:27,671
ever going to pay that back?
So when I started at Quails Gate,

1196
00:45:27,671 --> 00:45:29,690
my mortgage was at 12.75.

1197
00:45:29,690 --> 00:45:31,370
And I thought I'd almost died and

1198
00:45:31,370 --> 00:45:32,114
gone to heaven.

1199
00:45:32,214 --> 00:45:33,663
And now, we've got people that

1200
00:45:33,663 --> 00:45:35,646
still talk about mortgages that
are at 2%.

1201
00:45:35,646 --> 00:45:39,179
And I'm thinking, you guys are
living a dream that probably won't

1202
00:45:39,179 --> 00:45:40,031
be soon repeated.

1203
00:45:40,031 --> 00:45:40,293
Yeah.

1204
00:45:40,293 --> 00:45:43,298
What is your favorite charity and
how do you give back?

1205
00:45:43,298 --> 00:45:46,625
I give to a lot in the sense that
I'm a big supporter.

1206
00:45:46,625 --> 00:45:49,404
And it all started, I was at a
blood donor clinic and Ian

1207
00:45:49,404 --> 00:45:50,753
Greenwood, who is the CEO and
president of Sunrite BC Tree

1208
00:45:50,753 --> 00:45:50,909
Fruits.

1209
00:45:50,909 --> 00:45:52,465
I knew him because of the fact we

1210
00:45:52,465 --> 00:45:54,497
shipped fruit to the packing
houses and he knew me well.

1211
00:45:54,497 --> 00:45:57,007
So he said, why don't you consider
coming onto the hospital

1212
00:45:57,007 --> 00:45:58,680
foundation?
And the hospital was much

1213
00:45:58,820 --> 00:46:00,023
different in those days.

1214
00:46:00,023 --> 00:46:00,892
So I joined the hospital

1215
00:46:00,892 --> 00:46:01,202
foundation.

1216
00:46:01,202 --> 00:46:03,188
I worked with them as a volunteer

1217
00:46:03,188 --> 00:46:04,188
for six or eight years.

1218
00:46:04,188 --> 00:46:05,694
We fundraised for all sorts of

1219
00:46:05,694 --> 00:46:05,882
things.

1220
00:46:05,882 --> 00:46:07,803
But the last project that I did

1221
00:46:07,703 --> 00:46:08,581
was the Cancer Care Center.

1222
00:46:08,581 --> 00:46:10,424
And I hate to tell you, that was

1223
00:46:10,424 --> 00:46:11,690
over 30 years ago.

1224
00:46:11,690 --> 00:46:13,016
And I think our goal at the time

1225
00:46:13,016 --> 00:46:14,276
was about seven and a half million
dollars.

1226
00:46:14,376 --> 00:46:15,859
But we did it successfully.

1227
00:46:15,859 --> 00:46:18,274
That cancer clinic, you know, I

1228
00:46:18,274 --> 00:46:22,101
mean, I know so many people that
have had to use it.

1229
00:46:22,101 --> 00:46:24,049
But I was on the college board
fundraising for the Trade Center.

1230
00:46:24,049 --> 00:46:25,280
There's such a need for that.

1231
00:46:25,257 --> 00:46:26,784
And I know that Sir Was, Lois and

1232
00:46:26,762 --> 00:46:28,310
Cliff are actively working on the
project for the Recreation Center.

1233
00:46:28,310 --> 00:46:29,796
And Cliff has been after me for
years to help get government

1234
00:46:29,796 --> 00:46:30,019
support.

1235
00:46:30,019 --> 00:46:31,468
But finally, the leadership at the

1236
00:46:31,468 --> 00:46:34,141
college said, that's it, we're
fighting the bullet.

1237
00:46:34,241 --> 00:46:35,164
I served on UBC's board.

1238
00:46:35,164 --> 00:46:36,797
And which one is the favorite?

1239
00:46:36,697 --> 00:46:40,589
Every year it comes down to, I
guess, where the greatest need.

1240
00:46:40,589 --> 00:46:42,821
And I'll tell you, the last
sizable contribution was in

1241
00:46:42,821 --> 00:46:52,582
Movember, which I noticed that you
guys might have a little bit of a

1242
00:46:52,482 --> 00:46:52,532
mustache.

1243
00:46:52,514 --> 00:46:52,704
We're pre-growing.

1244
00:46:52,704 --> 00:46:52,904
Yeah.

1245
00:46:52,831 --> 00:46:54,098
I think this year I raised about

1246
00:46:54,098 --> 00:46:54,478
$8,000 for Movember.

1247
00:46:54,478 --> 00:46:55,492
So I thought I was doing pretty

1248
00:46:55,492 --> 00:46:55,746
good.

1249
00:46:55,746 --> 00:46:56,295
I'm in the platinum club.

1250
00:46:56,221 --> 00:46:56,538
So how's that sound?
Awesome.

1251
00:46:56,538 --> 00:46:57,491
I love that.

1252
00:46:57,491 --> 00:46:59,549
Then how could our show, how could

1253
00:46:59,549 --> 00:47:01,323
Taylor and I or our listener help
you?

1254
00:47:01,323 --> 00:47:05,380
Well, I think the thing about it
is that I was reading a poll last

1255
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,791
night and I don't spend a lot of
time reading polls, but it was one

1256
00:47:08,791 --> 00:47:12,383
given to me recently by one of our
supporters that just said, Hey,

1257
00:47:12,383 --> 00:47:13,778
listen, you should look at this.

1258
00:47:13,778 --> 00:47:15,860
I think people have to get really

1259
00:47:15,860 --> 00:47:16,109
engaged.

1260
00:47:16,209 --> 00:47:17,912
Like all of the problems that we

1261
00:47:18,012 --> 00:47:22,716
face politically, you know, we can
do so much better, but they got to

1262
00:47:22,616 --> 00:47:24,767
get engaged and they got to
challenge what they're hearing.

1263
00:47:24,667 --> 00:47:28,021
What most people are kind of
hearing right now is marketing

1264
00:47:28,021 --> 00:47:28,158
communications.

1265
00:47:28,258 --> 00:47:29,186
I mean, re-announcements of

1266
00:47:29,186 --> 00:47:30,420
projects and stuff like that.

1267
00:47:30,420 --> 00:47:32,481
If you look at the details and the

1268
00:47:32,581 --> 00:47:34,431
results, unfortunately, the
results are not very good.

1269
00:47:34,431 --> 00:47:36,003
I'll give you a good example.

1270
00:47:36,003 --> 00:47:38,703
One of the first things that was

1271
00:47:38,703 --> 00:47:40,893
announced by the government was
the new Patala Bridge.

1272
00:47:40,893 --> 00:47:43,533
The Patala Bridge is barely even
half constructed.

1273
00:47:43,533 --> 00:47:44,560
And that's seven years.

1274
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:49,731
That's longer than the Second

1275
00:47:49,686 --> 00:47:49,756
World War took to win.

1276
00:47:49,708 --> 00:47:49,780
Government's got to get things

1277
00:47:49,737 --> 00:47:49,780
done in a more timely manner.

1278
00:47:49,767 --> 00:47:53,896
And results matter.

1279
00:47:53,896 --> 00:47:55,074
So I would say that your
listeners, you know, need to

1280
00:47:55,074 --> 00:47:56,213
question and challenge the status
quo, make certain that they're

1281
00:47:56,213 --> 00:47:56,327
working.

1282
00:47:56,327 --> 00:47:57,429
And I would love nothing more than

1283
00:47:57,529 --> 00:47:59,862
the government to get out of the
way of the cities and the Okanagan

1284
00:47:59,862 --> 00:48:02,600
getting rid of, you know, the
rules that they've created,

1285
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:03,401
short-term rentals.

1286
00:48:03,301 --> 00:48:05,551
I mean, I think the city of

1287
00:48:05,551 --> 00:48:09,177
Kelowna was amazing when they came
up with specific areas where

1288
00:48:09,277 --> 00:48:11,881
short-term rentals were
designated, et cetera, and albeit

1289
00:48:11,881 --> 00:48:13,687
the government's reversed that and
the city's accepted that.

1290
00:48:13,687 --> 00:48:17,084
But what are we doing to build the
hotel room capacity in the

1291
00:48:17,084 --> 00:48:19,420
Okanagan?
Why aren't we getting more hotels,

1292
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,900
et cetera?
Mostly because of red tape and

1293
00:48:21,900 --> 00:48:22,485
extra costs.

1294
00:48:22,485 --> 00:48:24,927
The city's got to get out of the

1295
00:48:24,827 --> 00:48:25,022
way.

1296
00:48:25,022 --> 00:48:26,258
Vancouver, even Penticton's got a

1297
00:48:26,258 --> 00:48:27,039
convention center.

1298
00:48:27,039 --> 00:48:29,960
So I'd like to think that, you

1299
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:31,720
know, Kelowna could visualize
itself.

1300
00:48:31,720 --> 00:48:34,290
I'll tell you, my dad was on the
waterfront redevelopment project

1301
00:48:34,290 --> 00:48:36,460
when John Hindle was the mayor
back in 1980.

1302
00:48:36,460 --> 00:48:38,457
They visualized not only the
Grand, but they visualized a

1303
00:48:38,457 --> 00:48:40,596
number of hotels, convention
center in there.

1304
00:48:40,596 --> 00:48:43,840
Part of it's done, but we're
struggling to kind of continue

1305
00:48:44,260 --> 00:48:44,789
with that vision.

1306
00:48:44,789 --> 00:48:46,907
We have to see ourselves as being

1307
00:48:46,907 --> 00:48:47,293
a destination.

1308
00:48:47,293 --> 00:48:49,147
The airport is certainly on that

1309
00:48:49,247 --> 00:48:49,633
track.

1310
00:48:49,534 --> 00:48:50,847
And frankly, I think the

1311
00:48:50,847 --> 00:48:54,064
short-term rental market would
balance out and have less issues

1312
00:48:54,064 --> 00:48:58,732
for people if it was in step with
kind of the availability of other

1313
00:48:58,632 --> 00:49:02,238
rooms and also not necessarily be
in areas where they shouldn't be.

1314
00:49:02,338 --> 00:49:05,080
I don't think short-term rentals
in neighborhoods always work

1315
00:49:04,980 --> 00:49:07,615
because you get people that are
here for different reasons and it

1316
00:49:07,715 --> 00:49:09,756
makes it very difficult for the
residents of a neighborhood.

1317
00:49:09,756 --> 00:49:12,519
So I think that short-term rentals
have to be properly designated and

1318
00:49:12,519 --> 00:49:15,660
the city needs to clear the decks,
even though I gave them kudos on

1319
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:17,584
their AI project, et cetera.

1320
00:49:17,684 --> 00:49:18,867
They can still do better, but we

1321
00:49:18,867 --> 00:49:19,975
want to measure the results.

1322
00:49:19,975 --> 00:49:20,150
Yeah.

1323
00:49:20,250 --> 00:49:20,571
I love that.

1324
00:49:20,571 --> 00:49:22,997
I want to ask one more question

1325
00:49:22,997 --> 00:49:24,852
before we let you go.

1326
00:49:24,852 --> 00:49:26,178
Probably going to be the hardest

1327
00:49:26,178 --> 00:49:27,323
question you have today.

1328
00:49:27,223 --> 00:49:29,311
What is your favorite bottle of

1329
00:49:29,311 --> 00:49:30,146
wine?
Great question, Taylor.

1330
00:49:30,146 --> 00:49:33,010
You know what?
One thing I can tell you, Taylor,

1331
00:49:33,010 --> 00:49:36,573
about bottles of wine is that I
always thought that there was

1332
00:49:36,573 --> 00:49:41,274
going to be this wine that I was
just going to love if I tasted it.

1333
00:49:41,274 --> 00:49:45,247
And there's so many wines that are
great and they're all so

1334
00:49:45,247 --> 00:49:45,597
different.

1335
00:49:45,598 --> 00:49:48,315
To be honest, I mean, that's what

1336
00:49:48,215 --> 00:49:51,820
drives me and the rest of the
Quailsgate team is we want

1337
00:49:52,140 --> 00:49:54,470
everybody to think that the wines
we produce are that great bottle

1338
00:49:54,470 --> 00:49:58,291
of wine, but we know that there's
always room to kind of constantly

1339
00:49:58,291 --> 00:49:58,628
improve.

1340
00:49:58,628 --> 00:50:00,513
Did you hear about the tasting

1341
00:50:00,513 --> 00:50:03,498
that Angela Lyons, our VP of
marketing and sales, she brought

1342
00:50:03,398 --> 00:50:07,509
in a wine judging panel, gave them
about eight or nine wines of some

1343
00:50:07,409 --> 00:50:08,284
of these wines were world
renowned.

1344
00:50:08,282 --> 00:50:11,195
Some of them were in the thousands
of dollars a bottle, which means

1345
00:50:11,195 --> 00:50:13,150
that they probably are just in
very short supply, all blind

1346
00:50:13,150 --> 00:50:13,207
tasted.

1347
00:50:13,207 --> 00:50:14,442
And what amazed me is that

1348
00:50:14,442 --> 00:50:17,655
Quailsgate was in the not at the
top in every case, top, but it

1349
00:50:17,655 --> 00:50:19,060
consistently scored in that.

1350
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:20,493
And we had international judges.

1351
00:50:20,493 --> 00:50:23,575
So what that tells me is that
there's a lot of great wines out

1352
00:50:23,575 --> 00:50:23,719
there.

1353
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:26,188
I'm still a value price shopper.

1354
00:50:26,088 --> 00:50:28,817
I still go out to wineries and I
buy lots of wine.

1355
00:50:28,817 --> 00:50:31,174
I could give you a list of wines.

1356
00:50:31,174 --> 00:50:33,074
They probably need your Corselet

1357
00:50:33,074 --> 00:50:35,326
down in Costin and What a great
Laughingstock, help.

1358
00:50:35,326 --> 00:50:35,960
Carameus.

1359
00:50:36,060 --> 00:50:37,020
winery.

1360
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:40,760
which I know is owned by Arterra,
but David and Cynthia did a great

1361
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:41,291
job there.

1362
00:50:41,291 --> 00:50:43,470
And I love wines that my friends

1363
00:50:43,470 --> 00:50:44,533
at Kettle Valley, Cedar Creek.

1364
00:50:44,533 --> 00:50:46,074
I mean, I buy wine all over the

1365
00:50:46,074 --> 00:50:48,833
place and I love it when I
discover something that somebody

1366
00:50:48,833 --> 00:50:50,078
else's wine.

1367
00:50:49,978 --> 00:50:52,357
So it's an adventure and a

1368
00:50:52,357 --> 00:50:52,709
journey.

1369
00:50:52,809 --> 00:50:53,867
awesome.

1370
00:50:53,767 --> 00:50:55,431
I love the support.

1371
00:50:55,331 --> 00:50:57,152
Thank you so much for your time.

1372
00:50:57,152 --> 00:50:58,367
Thanks for coming on.

1373
00:50:58,367 --> 00:50:59,596
We look forward to having a glass

1374
00:50:59,596 --> 00:51:03,135
of wine with you at some stage
when we cross paths.

1375
00:51:03,135 --> 00:51:04,650
Okay, let's that.

1376
00:51:04,550 --> 00:51:07,218
That's a good way to talk the next

1377
00:51:07,218 --> 00:51:08,531
version of Yeah, absolutely.

1378
00:51:08,531 --> 00:51:09,907
Thank you so much.

1379
00:51:09,907 --> 00:51:11,675
It's been great talking to you
Thanks too.

1380
00:51:11,675 --> 00:51:12,651
for including me.

1381
00:51:12,651 --> 00:51:13,172
Yeah, no problem.

1382
00:51:13,172 --> 00:51:13,692
Yeah, appreciate it.