55: Simplifying Real Estate Law with Montgomery Miles and Stone Law Firm's Peter Borszcz

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to the Kelowna Real Estate Podcast
once again.

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Taylor, what's on mind?
I am depressed as usual, Matt.

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You've lights in the horizon, I
think.

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Not because I'm talking to you
today, but I don't know.

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I just feel like the field goal is
always changing.

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Yeah.

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Sometimes for the good, sometimes

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for the bad, depending on your
perspective, I guess.

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But a couple of things to
highlight, because we did speak

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about this in our show today,
which was an amazing show.

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got Peter Borsch.

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Awesome Yeah.

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Peter's a lawyer here in town.

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Pretty heavy hitter.

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Very good at large transactions in
real estate and kind of mixing in

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business.

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So yeah, very well known and

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really good guys.

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great podcaster, it turns Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It was an awesome chat with him,

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but that's not why I'm Yeah.

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that's one of the bright spots in

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Taylor's life.

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Yeah.

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I'm frustrated with this
assignment fee.

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Yeah.

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Like that flipping tax is

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essentially, if you're buying a
pre-construction condo and it

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doesn't close for a few years and
you make a profit on it if you

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assign it before you close, or
even when you close and then you

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essentially flip it, there's a tax
on it.

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So why I'm frustrated with that is
because this is how developers get

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projects off the ground in the
first place.

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I don't want to say fundraising
capital, but basically selling a

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portion of the project.

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They have to sell to get the

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financing.

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They have to hit their sales goals

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to get the financing to even make
the project go To get their

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construction financing.

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Yeah.

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And we need more houses.

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So we should be incentivizing any

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part of the market.

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It should be the pre-sales that

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are building more Yeah.

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And we're not saying like, okay,

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yeah, we don't love like flipping
these assignments to make a

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massive profit, which doesn't
really happen so much anymore.

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Years ago it did.

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But now most of these projects,

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you need to put 20% down.

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So it limits a lot of people.

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It's not an investment where
you're going to be making a

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massive amount of money, but it
limits people's exit strategies.

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So if somebody buys this and the
project's delayed by a year, year

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and a half, and they want to buy a
different house, I know there's

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exemptions for it, but it reduces
people's confidence to buy these

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projects in the first place, which
reduces capital for developers to

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use to get construction financing,
which is going to limit the amount

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of units that come on the market,
which is going to screw affordable

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housing.

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Yeah.

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So they're just like they're
coming out with these laws without

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thinking about it.

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if assignment one, honestly, I

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feel like we need to talk about
this now so that can maybe get

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changed because, yes, people are
speculating and can make money on

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assignments.

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But like they're not taking a unit

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because this is not a unit that's
built.

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This is in the future.

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You are funding future houses

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being built.

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So why would we take away the

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incentive to do that?
I feel like there should be

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incentive to do that, not do that.

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There's already an assignment fee

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usually from the developer.

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So people aren't really

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incentivized to buy these, to flip
them.

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It's a strategy that was used
maybe 10, 15 years ago, but

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they're coming out with these laws
way too late.

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In addition to that, so we did
speak about something else in the

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podcast and I'll highlight it a
little bit more.

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So I was referring to Scott
Butler.

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He's a developer.

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Don't know him personally.

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We'd love to have him on the show,
but just off of his LinkedIn

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posts, he says on a $400,000
condo, it's in the neighborhood of

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$100,000 in tax that developers
pay.

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So private businesses built just
over 250,000 houses in Canada last

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year.

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Some simple math says that's over

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$7.3 billion in tax revenue those
private developers would have paid

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to the government.

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First, the housing accelerator

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fund of $4 billion.

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So what I'm getting at here is the

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government's coming out with these
headlines like, hey, we have this

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housing accelerator fund of $4
billion and we're trying to help

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out housing affordability.

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Meanwhile, they're collecting $7.3

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billion from developers that are
actually the ones that are trying

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to build these units that we
desperately need.

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So where's the extra $3 billion
deficit gone to?

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Don't come out as the good guy if
you're not.

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Well, I guess you could just make
it $4 billion less in taxes and it

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would have the same effect paid
directly to the developers to

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build more.

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That's what you're saying.

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Yeah.

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The point of this is like, luckily

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I'm not a developer, but if I was,
I would probably quit at this

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point.

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With these regulations coming in,

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the volatility that they're
infusing is just insane.

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I have to talk about this.

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I was going to wait till another

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episode, but I just had to bring
it up now.

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I feel like this conversation has
just set me up too perfectly.

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Beck and I have been talking about
putting a basement suite in our

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house, right?
We have a perfect house.

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We don't really use the basement
that much.

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Put a suite in.

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So we've noticed that BC had the

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secondary suite incentive to build
your house.

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It's a $40,000 forgivable They'll
loan.

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pay up to half of your renovation
to make a legal suite So we've in.

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noticed that BC had the secondary
suite incentive to build your It's

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house.

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a $40,000 forgivable loan.

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They'll pay up to half of your
renovation to make a legal suite

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in your house, give you a
forgivable loan up to $40,000.

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Then I was looking at the terms
and there's an income maximum.

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So you have to make under $209,000
per year household to qualify to

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add a suite into your home to get
this incentive.

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And I just thought, why does it
matter what the household income

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is for the suite?
Like the goal should be to build

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more housing.

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What possible factor does the

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income of the person building the
house have to do with that?

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Right?
It just doesn't make any sense.

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And then when I was talking to
you, Taylor, before this, you're

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like, well, that only really
affects T4 employees because you

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could be like a major developer
with 15 buildings in Kelowna, but

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they're all owned in LLCs and you
do your taxes and making 90 grand

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a year.

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You could qualify.

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But if you're like a police
officer or like a teacher and your

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household happens to make over
that, you can't qualify.

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The goal should be to build more
houses.

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Why is the income of the person
even relevant?

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You know, it's kind of funny.

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It like a very simple strategy,

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but more houses, units available.

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It doesn't matter who's making

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money off of it, really.

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Just like, let's build some units.

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Yeah, let's get some units built.

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Yeah.

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Everyone knows that we need more
housing.

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That's unfortunate.

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I was really looking forward to

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renting your basement out.

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Yeah.

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I don't know, man.

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We're very strict on the tenants

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we choose.

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I don't know if you pass the bar.

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have good news.

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I am stoked on this.

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This lifted me up.

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Yeah.

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So Airbnb legislation, we all know
kind of is coming into play.

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From my hometown, West Kelowna, we
came out and had the exemption on

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specific properties because their
vacancy rate is outside of that

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threshold.

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Yeah.

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So we'll see how that actually
plays out in terms of, you know,

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asking for that exemption from the
province.

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But thank you, West Kelowna.

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You know what's funny?

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I was thinking about this, is that
tourists are going to now be more

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in West Kelowna because they can't
come to Kelowna in their Airbnb.

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So like, it's actually kind of
nice for West Kelowna because

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they're going to have more of a
spotlight now.

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Yeah.

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I mean, it's kind of funny

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because, well, it's not funny, but
they're really penalizing some

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people that are in Kelowna.

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And then that opportunity just

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grows somewhere else.

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That's kind of the whole point of

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like, they need to stop trying to
regulate a lot of these things and

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just let the market self-regulate
because we come out with this.

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And now like those properties in
West Kelowna probably just went up

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in value by 50,000 bucks
overnight.

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And the ones in Kelowna devalue.

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Like, how is that fair to anyone?

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Unless you're in West Kelowna
probably just went up in value by

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50,000 bucks overnight.

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And the ones in Kelowna devalue.

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Like, how is that fair to anyone?
Unless you're in West Kelowna,

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you're laughing.

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laughing.

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You know what's funny is people
are already going to West Kelowna

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to buy in WFN land.

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Yeah.

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Because they could serve you and
be, just all of West Kelowna.

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So WFN is probably like, oh, well.

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Yeah.

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You know?
So it's kind of funny, but yeah,

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you got some friends on the
council there too.

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So.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I mean, some more exciting

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news we're going to be having on i
don't want to give away too much

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but we're getting into the
political podcasting as well so

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some pretty big names coming on
which we're excited for our name

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is getting some other exciting
news matt yeah speaking of name

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getting out there yeah taylor and
i are now officially professional

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podcasters this podcast and every
other podcast going forward is now

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sponsored by the best brokerage in
town century 21 assurance forward

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00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:58,858
is now sponsored by the best
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assurance realty it really is the
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became an agent i went and i
interviewed every brokerage in

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town as agents do and you go meet
all the owners you meet all the

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managing brokers and you pick your
favorite one and i landed on

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century 21 and i have not looked
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experience of my life.

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Kind of the motto there is that as

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an agent, like you're in business
on your own, but you're not alone,

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right?
There's a team there.

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There's a marketing team.

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There's accessible managing

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brokers and Dean and Shirley.

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Max is awesome.

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Sit down with him.

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He'll make a whole business plan

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with you.

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Do a personal assessments, help

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you focus on what your strengths
are, what your weaknesses are, and

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just help you grow your business
because it can be a little bit

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tight right now.

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So my opinion, and it's an honest,

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genuine opinion, is that Century
21 Assurance Realty is the real

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deal and the best brokerage in
town.

251
00:07:42,584 --> 00:07:45,131
So if you're an agent trying to
get your business to the next

252
00:07:45,131 --> 00:07:46,840
level, I think you should give Max
a shout.

253
00:07:46,813 --> 00:07:48,567
Go talk to him or talk to me.

254
00:07:48,567 --> 00:07:49,929
I love talking about it too.

255
00:07:49,893 --> 00:07:50,499
Yeah, definitely.

256
00:07:50,499 --> 00:07:53,124
They've been supporting us and we

257
00:07:53,124 --> 00:07:54,118
appreciate it very much.

258
00:07:54,118 --> 00:07:55,471
So thank you.

259
00:07:55,471 --> 00:07:57,215
And let's do this.

260
00:07:57,215 --> 00:07:57,460
Yeah.

261
00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:58,320
Welcome to the show.

262
00:07:58,320 --> 00:07:59,000
for joining us.

263
00:07:58,960 --> 00:07:59,120
Yeah.

264
00:07:59,120 --> 00:07:59,770
Thanks for coming.

265
00:07:59,770 --> 00:08:03,700
So yeah, we just like to connect
you with our listener real quick.

266
00:08:03,700 --> 00:08:05,234
Kind of what's your perfect Friday
look like?

267
00:08:05,234 --> 00:08:08,368
What makes you productive and what
do you do for fun leading into the

268
00:08:08,468 --> 00:08:12,268
well i'm a big swimmer for those
people who don't know so my

269
00:08:12,268 --> 00:08:15,278
perfect friday probably starts
with an hour long in the pool i

270
00:08:15,178 --> 00:08:18,628
love to start a day that way and
then coffee with my dogs and then

271
00:08:18,528 --> 00:08:21,064
off to the office so that's kind
of how i roll what are they 50

272
00:08:21,064 --> 00:08:24,556
meter lobster 50 meters on certain
days of the week so like that's

273
00:08:24,556 --> 00:08:27,611
monday wednesday friday yeah yeah
25 the rest of the awesome yeah

274
00:08:27,511 --> 00:08:36,924
i've never done the 50 i've done a
lot of the 25 but i want to get

275
00:08:36,825 --> 00:08:40,515
there lake swim that is a bucket
list thing to do here in the

276
00:08:40,416 --> 00:08:44,221
okinawa yeah yeah i was registered
for covid and i finally got to do

277
00:08:44,221 --> 00:08:47,662
it last year so yeah it was a good
way to start nice cool and coffee

278
00:08:47,662 --> 00:08:52,342
i gotta ask are you like a one cup
of coffee kind of guy because i

279
00:08:52,342 --> 00:08:55,193
know we met a few weeks ago and
you were not drinking coffee in

280
00:08:55,193 --> 00:08:58,103
the yeah basically by about 11
o'clock i gotta cut it off okay

281
00:08:58,103 --> 00:09:00,633
trying to figure out my own
strategy i think i'm just running

282
00:09:00,633 --> 00:09:04,739
on coffee lately so so if we ask
questions taylor has a plan as you

283
00:09:04,739 --> 00:09:07,566
get older the strategy changes
that's all's all I'm going to say.

284
00:09:07,566 --> 00:09:07,837
Yeah.

285
00:09:07,837 --> 00:09:08,039
Okay.

286
00:09:08,039 --> 00:09:08,444
to say.

287
00:09:08,444 --> 00:09:08,714
Yeah.

288
00:09:08,714 --> 00:09:08,782
Okay.

289
00:09:08,782 --> 00:09:09,730
Well, let's dive straight into it.

290
00:09:09,730 --> 00:09:12,189
We want to be efficient with your
time.

291
00:09:12,189 --> 00:09:14,367
You're a wealth of knowledge, so
we want to utilize it.

292
00:09:14,367 --> 00:09:16,646
Short-term legislation that's
happening May 1st, Property Rights

293
00:09:16,646 --> 00:09:18,440
Association, I think are
fundraising about $150,000 to pay

294
00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:20,161
legal fees to fight Is going to do
it?

295
00:09:20,161 --> 00:09:24,280
Like, is there a leg to stand on?
Is it worth going down that

296
00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:25,800
avenue?
Well, first and foremost, you have

297
00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:27,281
to understand that the province of
British Columbia has the

298
00:09:27,281 --> 00:09:29,559
constitutional authority to go
ahead and make what rules it wants

299
00:09:30,072 --> 00:09:33,076
with respect to property, right?
That is purely within its purview.

300
00:09:33,076 --> 00:09:36,160
And if it wants to regulate
municipalities whose power is

301
00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,187
derived from the provinces, they
can do that.

302
00:09:38,187 --> 00:09:42,173
So nothing the province has done
kind of on the face of it is

303
00:09:42,173 --> 00:09:42,349
unconstitutional.

304
00:09:42,349 --> 00:09:44,344
Now, the question is like, have

305
00:09:44,344 --> 00:09:46,515
you then had some sort of like de
facto taking, kind of like an

306
00:09:46,515 --> 00:09:48,980
expropriation type of thing from
these owners who kind of bought

307
00:09:48,980 --> 00:09:51,668
with the expectation?
Well, you know, there's a whole

308
00:09:51,668 --> 00:09:56,317
bunch of body of law on like
upzoning and downzoning.

309
00:09:56,317 --> 00:10:01,849
So, you know, does that argument
have some kind of ability to

310
00:10:01,849 --> 00:10:04,253
succeed?
Maybe if you found the right judge

311
00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,015
at the right time, but would I be
investing in that?

312
00:10:07,015 --> 00:10:10,171
Like if I was a gambling man,
would I gamble on that?

313
00:10:10,171 --> 00:10:10,324
No.

314
00:10:10,424 --> 00:10:10,883
Yeah.

315
00:10:10,783 --> 00:10:10,936
Right.

316
00:10:10,936 --> 00:10:12,621
Like my thought on that is I

317
00:10:12,621 --> 00:10:16,124
wouldn't be investing in that
would you get hired for that

318
00:10:16,124 --> 00:10:19,582
project would you be interested in
fighting that no not yeah okay

319
00:10:19,582 --> 00:10:23,560
there's better uses of my time how
does a court care about public

320
00:10:23,560 --> 00:10:27,560
opinion on something like this
would they even zero not at all

321
00:10:27,980 --> 00:10:31,211
all right yeah because if the
court cared about public opinion

322
00:10:31,211 --> 00:10:34,900
like it would just be a popularity
contest right murderer guilty

323
00:10:34,980 --> 00:10:35,550
innocent innocent.

324
00:10:35,550 --> 00:10:36,120
I know.

325
00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:37,260
Yeah, okay, fair enough.

326
00:10:37,260 --> 00:10:39,033
So yeah, I guess the popularity

327
00:10:39,029 --> 00:10:40,056
comes to legislation itself.

328
00:10:40,056 --> 00:10:40,300
Exactly.

329
00:10:40,300 --> 00:10:40,623
Yeah.

330
00:10:40,623 --> 00:10:42,724
And that's the legislator's job is

331
00:10:42,724 --> 00:10:46,080
to like, that's what the majority
of the people want.

332
00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:47,134
So let's put that through.

333
00:10:47,134 --> 00:10:49,276
But you know, the Constitution is

334
00:10:49,176 --> 00:10:50,757
there to protect the minority.

335
00:10:50,757 --> 00:10:52,367
And there's this balancing of

336
00:10:52,367 --> 00:10:53,952
rights that courts go through.

337
00:10:53,952 --> 00:10:56,170
But in this case, like, you have

338
00:10:56,270 --> 00:10:59,263
to look at it and say, well, you
know, the province has a

339
00:10:59,263 --> 00:11:01,853
justifiable reason for making this
legislation of putting on 16,000

340
00:11:01,853 --> 00:11:03,878
units or something that they say
back onto the market.

341
00:11:03,878 --> 00:11:07,612
So, you know, they're trying to
address what is a real problem.

342
00:11:07,612 --> 00:11:12,551
So it's going to be hard for the
courts to say that there isn't a

343
00:11:12,551 --> 00:11:14,154
valid legislative reason for that
to exist.

344
00:11:14,154 --> 00:11:16,989
And short-term rentals are fairly
new to the legal landscape.

345
00:11:16,989 --> 00:11:18,906
You got to remember, law moves
really slowly.

346
00:11:18,906 --> 00:11:19,098
Yeah.

347
00:11:19,353 --> 00:11:20,819
So like Airbnb and VRBO, like

348
00:11:20,819 --> 00:11:21,969
they're creatures of the last
decade.

349
00:11:21,969 --> 00:11:22,169
Yeah.

350
00:11:22,134 --> 00:11:22,421
And Yeah.

351
00:11:22,421 --> 00:11:23,796
I think I looked into this.

352
00:11:23,796 --> 00:11:27,987
I think it was 2009 or 10 that

353
00:11:27,887 --> 00:11:28,623
they came in.

354
00:11:28,723 --> 00:11:29,247
So like, yeah.

355
00:11:29,247 --> 00:11:29,417
Yeah.

356
00:11:29,417 --> 00:11:30,267
Brand new.

357
00:11:30,267 --> 00:11:30,380
Yeah.

358
00:11:30,380 --> 00:11:33,193
So. So, yeah, I would be surprised

359
00:11:33,193 --> 00:11:35,404
if the court did anything that
fundamentally altered the

360
00:11:35,404 --> 00:11:36,539
legislation as it exists.

361
00:11:36,639 --> 00:11:38,252
And for, I guess, developers or

362
00:11:38,152 --> 00:11:41,477
developments that are going on or
people that are in contracts that

363
00:11:41,377 --> 00:11:44,524
haven't closed yet, I mean, most
of the disclosure statements, I

364
00:11:44,424 --> 00:11:46,574
believe, basically state that it's
out of their hands, that it's not

365
00:11:46,574 --> 00:11:47,948
an issue that they can worry
about.

366
00:11:47,948 --> 00:11:52,882
Is that kind of the stance is just
stay the course, you've got to

367
00:11:52,882 --> 00:11:55,903
close on the property and
developers have to finish their

368
00:11:55,903 --> 00:11:56,460
projects.

369
00:11:56,560 --> 00:11:58,946
And we're all just kind of stuck

370
00:11:58,946 --> 00:11:59,473
in this together.

371
00:11:59,473 --> 00:12:01,808
I think that's going to be the de

372
00:12:01,808 --> 00:12:02,941
facto stance for most people.

373
00:12:02,941 --> 00:12:04,860
I think there are projects out

374
00:12:04,860 --> 00:12:08,396
there that if they are really a
hotel, but they started as a

375
00:12:08,396 --> 00:12:09,932
strata, they could be a strata
hotel.

376
00:12:10,032 --> 00:12:13,361
Like there is room in the
legislation to say, you look at

377
00:12:13,261 --> 00:12:16,120
these places like Fidel Sol,
Walnut Beach down in the Soudios,

378
00:12:16,380 --> 00:12:17,183
where they are stratified hotels.

379
00:12:17,168 --> 00:12:18,519
That's the way that they operate.

380
00:12:18,519 --> 00:12:19,366
They have reservation systems.

381
00:12:19,366 --> 00:12:21,264
And Big White has lots of examples

382
00:12:21,264 --> 00:12:22,811
of this as well.

383
00:12:22,811 --> 00:12:24,789
But, you know, in the areas where

384
00:12:24,789 --> 00:12:30,300
this is going to apply, those are
a couple of good ones.

385
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,271
So does a new development actually
move in that direction?

386
00:12:34,271 --> 00:12:36,593
Do they change?
Really, what you have to change is

387
00:12:36,593 --> 00:12:39,436
the owner's ability to possess and
use the unit exclusively.

388
00:12:39,536 --> 00:12:43,053
If you take that away from the
owner and say, now there's a

389
00:12:43,053 --> 00:12:44,804
rental management covenant here
and rental management bylaws, and

390
00:12:44,904 --> 00:12:47,647
like the Cove, we're going to be
monitoring who goes in and out,

391
00:12:47,547 --> 00:12:50,038
management bylaws and like the
we're going cove, to be monitoring

392
00:12:50,022 --> 00:12:52,920
who goes in and out, then you have
the ability to kind of change what

393
00:12:53,340 --> 00:12:53,768
you are.

394
00:12:53,768 --> 00:12:55,980
And now you are a hotel and now

395
00:12:55,980 --> 00:12:57,764
you can have your short term
rentals.

396
00:12:57,764 --> 00:13:00,071
But that's going to change your
property management.

397
00:13:00,071 --> 00:13:01,879
That's going to change your
economics.

398
00:13:01,879 --> 00:13:06,160
And wouldn't something like that,
wouldn't they have to do a new

399
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:07,441
disclosure statement at that
point?

400
00:13:07,441 --> 00:13:09,428
And then at that point, you could
just Absolutely.

401
00:13:09,428 --> 00:13:12,056
Because now you're introducing
things in the strata bylaws that

402
00:13:12,056 --> 00:13:13,530
are entitled that weren't
originally there.

403
00:13:13,530 --> 00:13:14,171
Yeah.

404
00:13:14,171 --> 00:13:15,666
And does that constitute, and this

405
00:13:15,637 --> 00:13:19,856
would be for a judge to decide,
does it actually constitute a

406
00:13:19,856 --> 00:13:22,644
fundamental change given rise to a
new right of Yeah.

407
00:13:22,644 --> 00:13:24,718
Well, then you need everyone on
board too, right?

408
00:13:24,618 --> 00:13:26,840
Or whatever the percentage is,
it's not like every owner is going

409
00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:31,715
to want to say, okay, I don't want
any part of this and just give it

410
00:13:31,715 --> 00:13:32,870
over to a company.

411
00:13:32,870 --> 00:13:33,964
Well, remember that a developer

412
00:13:33,964 --> 00:13:36,798
before they file that strata plan
can make whatever changes to the

413
00:13:36,898 --> 00:13:39,454
bylaws they want subject to the
fundamental change, right of

414
00:13:39,454 --> 00:13:41,089
rescission type of mechanism.

415
00:13:41,089 --> 00:13:42,636
Now, after we have owners in

416
00:13:42,636 --> 00:13:44,727
there, if we're talking about an
existing building that's already

417
00:13:44,580 --> 00:13:44,967
functional and full of owners,
yeah, absolutely.

418
00:13:44,798 --> 00:13:52,477
Then the ownership group itself is
going to have to vote to make a

419
00:13:52,465 --> 00:13:53,300
change and you're going to have
voting thresholds Seamless segue,

420
00:13:53,300 --> 00:13:53,688
if I may say.

421
00:13:53,623 --> 00:13:54,253
So then going into the leased

422
00:13:54,161 --> 00:13:55,411
land, you're allowed to still run
short-term rentals on leased

423
00:13:55,319 --> 00:13:55,534
lands.

424
00:13:55,634 --> 00:13:57,301
Do you see that ever changing or,

425
00:13:57,201 --> 00:14:00,160
you know, the owners of the leased
land, West Bank First Nations, are

426
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,729
they looking at this like this is
a great opportunity for them to

427
00:14:02,729 --> 00:14:05,539
build those type of properties?
You know, I think different First

428
00:14:05,539 --> 00:14:08,257
Nations are going to take
different approaches to it

429
00:14:08,257 --> 00:14:09,198
depending on where they're
located.

430
00:14:09,298 --> 00:14:12,180
So if you look at West Bank in
particular, yeah, that ability to

431
00:14:12,180 --> 00:14:14,692
say, hey, we're going to allow
short-term rentals on our lands

432
00:14:14,692 --> 00:14:17,080
because we're not subject to the
provincial authority, that makes a

433
00:14:17,180 --> 00:14:18,102
lot of sense for them.

434
00:14:18,102 --> 00:14:20,122
But if you look at another band

435
00:14:20,122 --> 00:14:21,490
like Tawasin, you know, maybe not,
right?

436
00:14:21,490 --> 00:14:23,260
Like they're going to have their
own housing issues.

437
00:14:23,260 --> 00:14:26,667
So I think it's going to be very
First Nations specific.

438
00:14:26,667 --> 00:14:29,673
And the government has crafted the
legislation such that the First

439
00:14:29,673 --> 00:14:32,140
Nations could opt in if they
wanted to, right?

440
00:14:32,140 --> 00:14:35,584
Much like smaller municipalities,
they can opt in if they to.

441
00:14:35,684 --> 00:14:39,152
But then we go back to the
political arena where they could

442
00:14:39,152 --> 00:14:43,960
just decide that they don't want
to do that if they don't like it

443
00:14:43,860 --> 00:14:45,814
in the future, right?
Like the First Nations.

444
00:14:45,814 --> 00:14:48,055
If they say, yes, right now, I
want to have short-term rentals.

445
00:14:48,055 --> 00:14:51,220
They might not always want that.

446
00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:52,236
That was kind of my leading

447
00:14:52,236 --> 00:14:57,392
question is, okay, what is the
risk of buying on lease line right

448
00:14:57,392 --> 00:14:58,851
now?
Like if somebody sees an

449
00:14:58,851 --> 00:15:01,746
opportunity, there's no committed
confirmation from West Bank for a

450
00:15:01,746 --> 00:15:03,188
nation that this is going to last
indefinitely.

451
00:15:03,288 --> 00:15:05,559
One of the generalized risks of
buying on leased land ever, you

452
00:15:05,559 --> 00:15:09,230
know, this is always a risk, is
that you don't elect your

453
00:15:09,130 --> 00:15:10,923
governors, right?
Your governor is banned in council

454
00:15:10,923 --> 00:15:13,440
of the particular First Nation
upon whose land you are leasing.

455
00:15:13,540 --> 00:15:15,517
And, you know, it's not like
municipal council or the

456
00:15:15,617 --> 00:15:16,689
provincial government.

457
00:15:16,589 --> 00:15:17,828
You elect those people.

458
00:15:17,828 --> 00:15:21,446
Those people are elected by band
members unless you are a band

459
00:15:21,446 --> 00:15:21,785
member.

460
00:15:21,785 --> 00:15:24,640
So they can make whatever land use

461
00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:25,797
decisions that they want to make.

462
00:15:25,897 --> 00:15:27,048
West Bank in particular is a

463
00:15:27,048 --> 00:15:27,772
self-governing band.

464
00:15:27,772 --> 00:15:29,781
So, you know, they have certain

465
00:15:29,681 --> 00:15:32,252
autonomy from the federal
government to do what they wish.

466
00:15:32,352 --> 00:15:33,313
So those risks exist anyways.

467
00:15:33,313 --> 00:15:34,710
So you could end up with

468
00:15:34,810 --> 00:15:38,588
something, and I'm just looking at
like the Burn Co site, for

469
00:15:38,588 --> 00:15:41,125
instance, right?
Like you can end up with like, you

470
00:15:41,025 --> 00:15:43,663
know, semi-industrial land right
next door to a residential land.

471
00:15:43,663 --> 00:15:44,478
That can happen.

472
00:15:44,378 --> 00:15:45,477
You can end up with really tall

473
00:15:45,477 --> 00:15:47,016
retaining walls that are just
there.

474
00:15:47,016 --> 00:15:48,720
And you're like, okay, well, how
would that happen?

475
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:50,000
That's within the band's authority
to do that.

476
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,060
So I think that's just generalized
risk when you were to enter onto

477
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:53,525
First Nations Yeah.

478
00:15:53,525 --> 00:15:55,387
Like, is that why the values of

479
00:15:55,387 --> 00:15:57,792
leased land is slightly lower?
Like, I know we're just talking

480
00:15:57,892 --> 00:16:00,563
about this offer a little bit, but
there are lenders, but it's not

481
00:16:00,563 --> 00:16:05,303
like you have an abundant amount
of lenders that are willing to go

482
00:16:05,303 --> 00:16:06,580
into mortgages on leased land.

483
00:16:06,580 --> 00:16:07,877
And if they do, there's some

484
00:16:07,877 --> 00:16:11,034
stipulations, like the lease has
to be prepaid.

485
00:16:11,034 --> 00:16:14,654
It's not going to be amortized
monthly or, you know, it has to be

486
00:16:14,654 --> 00:16:16,485
the duration of the amortization.

487
00:16:16,585 --> 00:16:19,660
Like you can't have a lease up for

488
00:16:19,660 --> 00:16:23,780
renewal in five years, like, or
the equity has to be there.

489
00:16:24,500 --> 00:16:25,494
So they just protect themselves, I
guess.

490
00:16:25,483 --> 00:16:28,184
But our lenders just incredibly
intelligent and they know that

491
00:16:28,184 --> 00:16:30,297
there's more risk and like people
are actively actively because

492
00:16:30,297 --> 00:16:33,951
we're kind of in a pocket, right?
And like the Okanagan has, I don't

493
00:16:33,951 --> 00:16:36,550
know the percentage, but a
absolute ton of leaseland when

494
00:16:36,550 --> 00:16:38,290
you're looking at across Canada.

495
00:16:38,190 --> 00:16:40,338
So it just seems more of the norm

496
00:16:40,338 --> 00:16:41,299
for us.

497
00:16:41,299 --> 00:16:42,926
But if somebody else was buying on

498
00:16:42,926 --> 00:16:47,826
leaseland, like as a lawyer, when
you're reviewing it with them, do

499
00:16:47,826 --> 00:16:49,817
you kind of acknowledge like, hey,
there is a small risk here that

500
00:16:49,817 --> 00:16:51,178
you should of?
The lease really depends on the

501
00:16:51,278 --> 00:16:52,847
particular development you're
buying into.

502
00:16:52,847 --> 00:16:54,905
So they are all very, very, very
different.

503
00:16:54,905 --> 00:16:58,155
Unlike, you know, you buy a
subdivided parcel with a home on

504
00:16:58,155 --> 00:17:00,999
it in Sycamuse versus one in
Kelowna, they're going to look

505
00:17:00,999 --> 00:17:03,298
nearly identical if they're on fee
simple land.

506
00:17:03,298 --> 00:17:06,468
But if you buy on a subdivided
lease parcel on Little Shuswap

507
00:17:06,468 --> 00:17:09,964
Indian Band versus a subdivided
leasehold parcel on West Bank

508
00:17:09,964 --> 00:17:11,492
First Nations, they are
fundamentally different things in

509
00:17:11,492 --> 00:17:14,993
terms of whether that lease is
prepaid or not, how long the term

510
00:17:14,993 --> 00:17:17,673
is, what the band's options are at
the end of that lease or what the

511
00:17:17,673 --> 00:17:20,648
band usually does at the end of
that lease, what the band usually

512
00:17:20,648 --> 00:17:23,457
does at the end of that lease,
whether there's title insurance

513
00:17:23,557 --> 00:17:25,448
available, whether there's a
lender available, whether that

514
00:17:25,548 --> 00:17:28,961
lease gives the lender the right
to foreclose on that lease, right?

515
00:17:28,861 --> 00:17:30,312
They are completely different
legal animals because your

516
00:17:30,312 --> 00:17:32,440
property rights are determined by
the lease document itself.

517
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:34,978
And so whenever you buy in lease
land, you're kind of getting to

518
00:17:34,978 --> 00:17:37,221
know that property just in and of
itself.

519
00:17:37,121 --> 00:17:40,255
You can't generalize and say,
well, I bought in Sonoma Pines.

520
00:17:40,255 --> 00:17:44,870
So when I go down and I buy in
Spirit Ridge and Assoy, it's just

521
00:17:44,870 --> 00:17:46,040
going to be the same.

522
00:17:46,100 --> 00:17:46,277
Yeah.

523
00:17:46,277 --> 00:17:47,495
But they're completely different.

524
00:17:47,395 --> 00:17:48,907
Two great developments, by the

525
00:17:48,807 --> 00:17:49,690
way, but completely different.

526
00:17:49,690 --> 00:17:51,808
So it's just something to bear in

527
00:17:51,808 --> 00:17:52,220
mind.

528
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:54,201
I think that lenders want to have

529
00:17:54,201 --> 00:17:57,948
policy and they want to be able to
really look at what they're

530
00:17:57,948 --> 00:17:59,295
lending And I think on.

531
00:17:59,295 --> 00:18:00,979
that lenders want to have policy

532
00:18:00,979 --> 00:18:04,615
and they want to be able to really
look at what they're lending on.

533
00:18:04,615 --> 00:18:09,127
And I think that's why you see
variability in those lenders.

534
00:18:09,127 --> 00:18:12,236
Those lenders that have taken the
time to examine and get

535
00:18:12,336 --> 00:18:16,531
comfortable with the development
are going to lend in it versus

536
00:18:16,531 --> 00:18:20,199
lenders that, you know, like they
may not have the time or the

537
00:18:20,199 --> 00:18:21,826
capacity to assess their risk.

538
00:18:21,826 --> 00:18:24,777
So it's really easy to go to the

539
00:18:24,777 --> 00:18:28,688
lowest common denominator and say,
we're not taking any fair.

540
00:18:28,688 --> 00:18:29,115
Yeah.

541
00:18:29,115 --> 00:18:31,674
So the reason why we're talking

542
00:18:31,674 --> 00:18:33,564
about all this is because of
affordability.

543
00:18:33,564 --> 00:18:37,410
Obviously, I don't expect you to
answer this whole question, but

544
00:18:37,410 --> 00:18:40,067
I've heard you talk about this
before about your take on

545
00:18:40,067 --> 00:18:41,395
affordability is reducing red
tape.

546
00:18:41,395 --> 00:18:42,723
What are your thoughts on this
thing?

547
00:18:42,723 --> 00:18:44,270
It sounds like that's the route
that you go.

548
00:18:44,270 --> 00:18:44,637
Well, it's not just my opinion.

549
00:18:44,637 --> 00:18:45,020
BCRA published on this as well.

550
00:18:45,020 --> 00:18:49,572
You go, you go back to kind of
look at what Auckland has done and

551
00:18:49,572 --> 00:18:52,033
said, okay, if we had reduced the
bureaucratic burden to get

552
00:18:52,033 --> 00:18:55,706
projects done, we get more
projects done and we increase

553
00:18:55,706 --> 00:18:56,552
housing supply.

554
00:18:56,552 --> 00:18:58,784
And there's some really good

555
00:18:58,784 --> 00:19:02,911
evidence that that's a good thing,
you know, short of being like a

556
00:19:02,811 --> 00:19:06,371
benevolent dictator and being able
to just say, I'm going to fix the

557
00:19:06,471 --> 00:19:10,820
problem, which, you know, I don't
know if I would sign up for that

558
00:19:10,820 --> 00:19:11,040
job.

559
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:11,811
I've heard a few people that

560
00:19:11,811 --> 00:19:11,922
would.

561
00:19:11,922 --> 00:19:12,252
Yeah.

562
00:19:12,252 --> 00:19:14,760
You know, short of having that
kind of power, you're working with

563
00:19:14,820 --> 00:19:16,132
all these various levels of
government.

564
00:19:16,132 --> 00:19:18,871
And it's not just government, but
it's also different ministries,

565
00:19:18,871 --> 00:19:19,395
different utilities.

566
00:19:19,395 --> 00:19:20,902
Like you think of everything that

567
00:19:20,902 --> 00:19:23,770
goes into getting a project of
even modest size off the ground,

568
00:19:23,747 --> 00:19:24,215
there's a ton of hoops to jump
through.

569
00:19:24,068 --> 00:19:25,018
A recent example that is a little
bit of burning a bee in my bonnet,

570
00:19:24,872 --> 00:19:25,592
I guess you could say, is that's
due to fires.

571
00:19:25,561 --> 00:19:27,749
And, you know, you look at the
time to issue demolition permits

572
00:19:27,749 --> 00:19:29,398
between RDCO and District of West
Kelowna.

573
00:19:29,398 --> 00:19:29,628
Yeah.

574
00:19:29,628 --> 00:19:31,005
District of West Kelowna, for some

575
00:19:31,005 --> 00:19:33,673
reason, couldn't get their head
around trying to issue demo

576
00:19:33,673 --> 00:19:35,784
permits to people that had their
house burned down.

577
00:19:35,784 --> 00:19:37,088
RDCO got it done pretty quick.

578
00:19:37,088 --> 00:19:39,103
You know, I would like some sort

579
00:19:39,003 --> 00:19:41,275
of explanation as to why there is
a fundamental difference between

580
00:19:41,275 --> 00:19:43,109
those like same area, same
disaster.

581
00:19:43,109 --> 00:19:43,580
Yeah.

582
00:19:43,580 --> 00:19:46,921
And these are people that we

583
00:19:46,921 --> 00:19:49,687
should really actively be helping
as a community and saying like,

584
00:19:49,587 --> 00:19:52,121
look, we want you to be like,
here's a whole bunch of free

585
00:19:52,072 --> 00:19:53,754
insurance money that's going to
come into our community that's

586
00:19:53,754 --> 00:19:56,835
going to help all the trades out,
get everybody building, facilitate

587
00:19:56,835 --> 00:19:58,290
economy, all that stuff that we
want.

588
00:19:58,290 --> 00:20:02,875
So why can't we get them a demo
permit at the same speed that rdco

589
00:20:02,875 --> 00:20:05,465
did and i'm not saying don't do
your job because like rdco clearly

590
00:20:05,465 --> 00:20:10,993
is doing the exact same job as the
city of west the but it took city

591
00:20:10,993 --> 00:20:16,247
of west colonna in a lot of cases
that i know about two to three

592
00:20:16,347 --> 00:20:20,081
times as that's actually a great
point my mechanical guy is down

593
00:20:20,181 --> 00:20:23,878
west side road rdco and like i saw
him two months ago it was just

594
00:20:23,878 --> 00:20:25,182
just before Christmas and he lost
his house.

595
00:20:25,282 --> 00:20:27,030
I was like, Hey Mark, how's it
going, man?

596
00:20:27,030 --> 00:20:28,892
Like how are things?
Like, yeah, we're going to be

597
00:20:28,892 --> 00:20:29,506
pouring foundation pretty quick.

598
00:20:29,472 --> 00:20:32,403
I was like, what?

599
00:20:32,303 --> 00:20:34,229
Like, how do you even get that
done?

600
00:20:34,129 --> 00:20:38,066
And then meanwhile, there's other
people in West Kelowna that are

601
00:20:38,066 --> 00:20:43,500
like, I'm still living in an
Airbnb because we can't even get

602
00:20:43,980 --> 00:20:44,771
our insurance done yet.

603
00:20:44,771 --> 00:20:45,787
Like it's wow.

604
00:20:45,787 --> 00:20:47,787
So this is a tough question, but
yeah.

605
00:20:47,787 --> 00:20:50,668
Like what would you do?
What's the easiest red tape to

606
00:20:50,668 --> 00:20:53,113
remove?
Is it like staffing to wow so this

607
00:20:53,113 --> 00:20:56,046
is a tough question but yeah like
what would you do what's the

608
00:20:56,046 --> 00:20:59,177
easiest red tape to remove is it
like staffing to get those

609
00:20:59,177 --> 00:21:03,496
permitting done or just i know
we've spoken about this before on

610
00:21:03,496 --> 00:21:08,113
the show like we have these public
hearings everything's kind of done

611
00:21:08,213 --> 00:21:11,640
and then when legislation comes
out by the city or there's a new

612
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,341
development that goes up people
oppose it and then we're kind of

613
00:21:14,341 --> 00:21:18,258
back to these public hearings
what's kind of the easiest way to

614
00:21:18,258 --> 00:21:22,258
streamline some of that stuff i
think there's a lot of little

615
00:21:22,258 --> 00:21:27,003
things that you can do like what
does have to go to public hearing

616
00:21:27,003 --> 00:21:29,683
what does not should be defined
and defined clearly i think for

617
00:21:29,683 --> 00:21:32,095
lower end development and i would
say like everything under a

618
00:21:32,095 --> 00:21:34,427
fourplex that should be a one-stop
checklist shop with the

619
00:21:34,427 --> 00:21:36,713
municipality right we?
We did that in Kelowna really

620
00:21:36,813 --> 00:21:38,392
successfully with the RU7
properties.

621
00:21:38,292 --> 00:21:41,452
They're like, if you're building
something that kind of looks like

622
00:21:41,452 --> 00:21:45,077
this, on lots that kind of look
like this, we're going to stamp

623
00:21:45,077 --> 00:21:47,055
that and you can go ahead and
start building.

624
00:21:47,055 --> 00:21:48,788
That created a ton of housing.

625
00:21:48,788 --> 00:21:50,222
So we just have to follow the

626
00:21:50,222 --> 00:21:52,670
models that we know work and do
more of that.

627
00:21:52,670 --> 00:21:53,966
And it's not like reinventing the
wheel.

628
00:21:53,966 --> 00:21:56,080
It's not rocket science it's just
let's streamline those small

629
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,260
projects because if we can create
you know four units where there

630
00:21:59,260 --> 00:22:01,499
used to be one wonderful i don't
think anybody would like my

631
00:22:01,499 --> 00:22:03,954
benevolent dictator solution which
would be like there's all those

632
00:22:03,954 --> 00:22:06,705
farms that are in the middle of
colonna i would just build a whole

633
00:22:06,705 --> 00:22:08,870
bunch of apartment buildings you
know sim city's like boom boom

634
00:22:08,870 --> 00:22:11,730
boom that was actually going to be
one of my questions.

635
00:22:11,730 --> 00:22:13,314
Like, okay, so we just have to
preface it.

636
00:22:13,314 --> 00:22:15,012
Like, we're sorry, West Kelowna.

637
00:22:15,012 --> 00:22:16,413
We're like, ALR, we're sorry.

638
00:22:16,313 --> 00:22:17,105
But fair point.

639
00:22:17,105 --> 00:22:18,180
And we've spoken about this

640
00:22:18,180 --> 00:22:18,546
before.

641
00:22:18,546 --> 00:22:19,936
I've beaten this drum.

642
00:22:19,936 --> 00:22:20,621
much around.

643
00:22:20,521 --> 00:22:22,058
You show those places and you look

644
00:22:22,058 --> 00:22:24,359
at the fields across Springfield
and you're like, there is many

645
00:22:24,239 --> 00:22:24,612
pedestrians walking right past
there.

646
00:22:24,465 --> 00:22:25,183
It's right by shopping and it has
been the home for geese for as

647
00:22:25,049 --> 00:22:25,502
long as I've lived here.

648
00:22:25,355 --> 00:22:25,700
It's insane yeah it's insane that

649
00:22:25,700 --> 00:22:29,600
that is like that still i guess
but the question is then like why

650
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,372
like does the alr exist well i
mean like i understand why and

651
00:22:32,372 --> 00:22:35,300
like i think there's a lot of
positive things that come out of

652
00:22:35,300 --> 00:22:38,786
it but can we not make some
exceptions does it not make sense

653
00:22:38,786 --> 00:22:41,123
so for people who don't know alr
is all about food security.

654
00:22:41,123 --> 00:22:41,323
Yes.

655
00:22:41,311 --> 00:22:42,776
And BC being able to produce

656
00:22:42,763 --> 00:22:44,087
enough food to feed its own
population.

657
00:22:44,087 --> 00:22:46,936
of there has been eras in the past
where it's like if we're very

658
00:22:46,936 --> 00:22:48,631
dependent Because, on imports
course, of we could be vulnerable

659
00:22:48,631 --> 00:22:49,694
as a population.

660
00:22:49,694 --> 00:22:51,537
food, So that's why the ALR

661
00:22:51,537 --> 00:22:51,750
exists.

662
00:22:51,750 --> 00:22:54,874
And I think it's a you you want

663
00:22:54,874 --> 00:22:57,389
good, to plan know, for worst case
scenario sometimes.

664
00:22:57,389 --> 00:22:58,018
Yes.

665
00:22:58,018 --> 00:23:00,975
part about BC is we're a bunch of

666
00:23:00,975 --> 00:23:03,141
islands, right?
We're either islands surrounded by

667
00:23:03,141 --> 00:23:07,160
water or islands surrounded by
mountains in the sense of

668
00:23:07,340 --> 00:23:09,047
unbuildable area surrounds a lot
of British Columbia.

669
00:23:09,047 --> 00:23:09,897
Fly over this province.

670
00:23:09,897 --> 00:23:11,254
It's stunningly beautiful, but not

671
00:23:11,254 --> 00:23:13,767
a lot of places for people to live
or crops to grow.

672
00:23:13,767 --> 00:23:16,019
So the ALR kind of makes sense in
that context.

673
00:23:16,019 --> 00:23:19,180
But when we look at how we
facilitate housing for people and

674
00:23:19,180 --> 00:23:20,738
where people live, it's not just
Kelowna.

675
00:23:20,738 --> 00:23:23,821
You drive into Richmond, there's
massive tracts of ALR land.

676
00:23:23,821 --> 00:23:27,290
And the ALR used to have a
mechanism for land swap, where

677
00:23:27,290 --> 00:23:31,284
they would say, all right, we will
take land out of the ALR if you

678
00:23:31,284 --> 00:23:33,384
could provide better land
somewhere else in the province

679
00:23:33,384 --> 00:23:35,471
that has similar or better
agricultural capacity.

680
00:23:35,471 --> 00:23:37,638
And so the ALR land swap rules
provided an incentive for

681
00:23:37,638 --> 00:23:40,593
developers to go out and find a
farm that wasn't in the ALR, fix

682
00:23:40,593 --> 00:23:43,818
it up, put on good soil, literally
truck it on, make this thing good

683
00:23:43,818 --> 00:23:46,560
to grow in all the ways and say,
all right, I got 10 acres out in

684
00:23:46,660 --> 00:23:50,640
Falkland and I'm going to swap
that in and I'm going to get out

685
00:23:50,700 --> 00:23:51,353
my 10 acres.

686
00:23:51,353 --> 00:23:53,989
I think it was two to one, five

687
00:23:54,226 --> 00:23:55,560
acres back here in Kelowna.

688
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,660
And so the ALR was good with that

689
00:23:57,660 --> 00:24:00,856
because like, okay, well, net
gains all over the place.

690
00:24:00,856 --> 00:24:03,022
Then they said, no, no, you no,
can't do that anymore.

691
00:24:03,022 --> 00:24:04,000
And they stopped that.

692
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:05,885
And in kind of the era we're in,

693
00:24:05,885 --> 00:24:09,526
I'm i'm wondering well maybe we
should be able to do that in terms

694
00:24:09,526 --> 00:24:13,335
of doing those things again so do
you know why they stopped because

695
00:24:13,335 --> 00:24:16,288
people were doing it all the time
too often and they thought that it

696
00:24:16,288 --> 00:24:18,536
was all resulting in a loss of
agricultural capacity too often

697
00:24:18,536 --> 00:24:21,247
yeah i mean like i get it there's
just certain plots of land

698
00:24:21,540 --> 00:24:23,769
specifically that are like yeah in
the center of Kelowna.

699
00:24:23,869 --> 00:24:29,800
Well, you used to also get
agricultural land if it was

700
00:24:29,642 --> 00:24:29,880
surrounded by a urban center.

701
00:24:38,772 --> 00:24:38,858
Once it got surrounded, you could,

702
00:24:38,811 --> 00:24:38,940
again, make an application.

703
00:24:38,834 --> 00:24:38,940
Can't do that anymore.

704
00:24:38,856 --> 00:24:38,940
Yeah, okay.

705
00:24:38,869 --> 00:24:38,940
That just makes sense to me.

706
00:24:38,902 --> 00:24:40,340
just another example of additional
bureaucracy standing in the way of

707
00:24:40,307 --> 00:24:43,470
good land development.

708
00:24:43,438 --> 00:24:43,632
democracy, standing in the way of

709
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:43,674
good land development.

710
00:24:43,636 --> 00:24:43,840
And I don't think anybody wants to

711
00:24:24,691 --> 00:24:48,089
see like, nobody wants to see like
a big windfall for a farmer who

712
00:24:48,089 --> 00:24:50,216
bought a piece of farm property.

713
00:24:50,216 --> 00:24:52,419
But similarly, I don't want to see

714
00:24:52,419 --> 00:24:55,750
the government, you know, racking
in tons of money into housing and

715
00:24:55,850 --> 00:24:58,118
the government to become a housing
supplier, right?

716
00:24:58,118 --> 00:25:00,810
Like from my point of view, like
government involvement just makes

717
00:25:00,910 --> 00:25:01,579
things more expensive.

718
00:25:01,579 --> 00:25:03,040
It doesn't make things less

719
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:03,252
expensive.

720
00:25:03,252 --> 00:25:05,899
So how do we facilitate less

721
00:25:05,899 --> 00:25:09,854
government, more supply should
kind of be the focus all up and

722
00:25:09,754 --> 00:25:10,516
down the spectrum.

723
00:25:10,616 --> 00:25:12,974
And I think Intel government

724
00:25:12,874 --> 00:25:17,745
really kind of takes a step back
in more ways than one.

725
00:25:17,745 --> 00:25:22,694
I think we're going to be facing a
little bit of an uphill battle

726
00:25:22,694 --> 00:25:22,972
Yeah.

727
00:25:22,972 --> 00:25:23,250
Yeah.

728
00:25:23,250 --> 00:25:24,084
There was a developer.

729
00:25:24,084 --> 00:25:26,167
I would actually like to reach out

730
00:25:26,167 --> 00:25:28,946
to him at some stage and have him
on.

731
00:25:28,946 --> 00:25:34,218
And his real simple math was for
about a $400,000 unit, like a

732
00:25:34,218 --> 00:25:37,279
condo, they spend close to
$100,000 worth of taxes, whether

733
00:25:37,279 --> 00:25:39,810
that's tax on supplies or GST, et
cetera.

734
00:25:39,710 --> 00:25:44,717
And he's like, if we could reduce
that, that's a huge chunk off for

735
00:25:44,717 --> 00:25:45,227
affordability.

736
00:25:45,227 --> 00:25:46,966
So instead of giving $100,000 on

737
00:25:46,966 --> 00:25:49,296
every unit to the government and
then have the government stop

738
00:25:49,296 --> 00:25:51,603
trying to implement these housing
programs to then make housing

739
00:25:51,603 --> 00:25:54,468
affordability, the real simple
solution is just trim it off at

740
00:25:54,468 --> 00:25:54,945
the source.

741
00:25:54,945 --> 00:25:56,034
It is interesting the government

742
00:25:56,034 --> 00:25:57,896
could do things that are free.

743
00:25:57,896 --> 00:25:58,775
Like you said, the RU7 rezoning,

744
00:25:58,756 --> 00:26:01,020
which was super successful, but it
was almost too limited that it

745
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:02,202
made those houses super expensive.

746
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:02,920
They just need to apply that.

747
00:26:03,340 --> 00:26:03,444
Exactly.

748
00:26:03,444 --> 00:26:04,528
If you did that everywhere, which

749
00:26:04,528 --> 00:26:04,998
I think that...

750
00:26:04,998 --> 00:26:06,349
Well, they've done that now.

751
00:26:06,349 --> 00:26:06,584
Yeah.

752
00:26:06,584 --> 00:26:06,995
Essentially, right?

753
00:26:06,995 --> 00:26:07,699
With the MF1.

754
00:26:07,699 --> 00:26:07,817
Yeah.

755
00:26:07,817 --> 00:26:09,037
The provincial poor houses on
every lot.

756
00:26:09,037 --> 00:26:10,083
It makes sense.

757
00:26:10,083 --> 00:26:11,716
It just, now we just need a

758
00:26:11,716 --> 00:26:13,916
reasonable interest rates to put
that into work, right?

759
00:26:13,916 --> 00:26:14,414
So, Yeah.

760
00:26:14,414 --> 00:26:15,847
I mean, it's still a pretty

761
00:26:15,847 --> 00:26:17,902
difficult task for a homeowner to
take on.

762
00:26:17,902 --> 00:26:20,600
Like it's intimidating to say,
right, so I own this and I

763
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,322
understand that it'll be more like
small-time developers, but as a

764
00:26:24,322 --> 00:26:27,568
homeowner to say, right, I own my
seven, eight, $900,000 home.

765
00:26:27,568 --> 00:26:29,484
I'm gonna tear it down and build a
fourplex.

766
00:26:29,484 --> 00:26:32,123
It's a pretty daunting task for
somebody to take on.

767
00:26:32,123 --> 00:26:35,537
So you're stuck kind of giving
that back to developers who are

768
00:26:35,537 --> 00:26:42,067
going to want to make a margin on
that right and if they're going to

769
00:26:42,067 --> 00:26:47,073
be taxed massively but that's
developer's perspective they have

770
00:26:47,073 --> 00:26:48,526
to run their business i completely
understand and you look at how

771
00:26:48,526 --> 00:26:49,919
some developers have operated and
it starts to make a lot of sense

772
00:26:49,919 --> 00:26:51,675
this is why so many developers
they cluster towards the luxury

773
00:26:51,575 --> 00:26:53,417
market and they cluster towards
the luxury market.

774
00:26:53,417 --> 00:26:56,180
And they cluster towards the
luxury market because of the

775
00:26:56,180 --> 00:26:56,381
margins.

776
00:26:56,381 --> 00:26:57,939
And they need the margins because

777
00:26:57,939 --> 00:26:59,296
of the time involved in
development.

778
00:26:59,295 --> 00:27:04,074
So the longer you have to hold a
property that you have to pay

779
00:27:03,974 --> 00:27:06,517
interest, you know, when you're in
for development permit

780
00:27:06,517 --> 00:27:10,265
applications, the longer you have
to do that, the longer you have to

781
00:27:10,265 --> 00:27:13,950
hold that property, the more
expensive it becomes for you as a

782
00:27:13,950 --> 00:27:16,330
developer, just online cost alone.

783
00:27:16,330 --> 00:27:17,728
So you have the developers that

784
00:27:17,728 --> 00:27:18,477
are around a lot.

785
00:27:18,477 --> 00:27:19,601
You look at everything that's gone

786
00:27:19,601 --> 00:27:20,297
up in downtown Kelowna.

787
00:27:20,297 --> 00:27:21,980
It's luxury development.

788
00:27:21,980 --> 00:27:24,400
holding periods that are
necessitated by all of the permit

789
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:25,660
applications and assessments and
archaeological and everything else

790
00:27:25,660 --> 00:27:28,120
that has to go into actually
getting one of these things off

791
00:27:28,120 --> 00:27:32,374
the So yeah well i think that's
the other thing is like our

792
00:27:32,374 --> 00:27:36,764
expectations as canadians are to
have a large single family house

793
00:27:36,864 --> 00:27:40,948
that you can park your garage and
if our expectations and we shrunk

794
00:27:40,948 --> 00:27:44,147
our square footage and we didn't
have ports and granite and

795
00:27:44,147 --> 00:27:46,643
stainless, then yeah, like housing
would be slightly more affordable.

796
00:27:46,643 --> 00:27:47,069
true though.

797
00:27:47,069 --> 00:27:49,682
When you go to like McKinley or

798
00:27:49,682 --> 00:27:52,455
Mission or all the new
subdivisions, they're all like

799
00:27:52,455 --> 00:27:53,660
gigantic, super luxury houses.

800
00:27:53,660 --> 00:27:55,010
And it just seems like it'd be

801
00:27:55,010 --> 00:27:58,446
really hard to build three
bedroom, two bathroom houses,

802
00:27:58,446 --> 00:27:59,425
which everybody wants.

803
00:27:59,425 --> 00:28:00,567
The economics aren't there.

804
00:28:00,667 --> 00:28:04,622
Well, and when there's enough
margin, because most of the value,

805
00:28:04,622 --> 00:28:09,052
like not most, but a lot of the
values in the land, because you

806
00:28:09,052 --> 00:28:12,340
can build out, right?
So who's going to want to buy a

807
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,958
$400,000 piece of land and build a
$300,000 structure on it?

808
00:28:14,958 --> 00:28:15,220
Yeah.

809
00:28:15,420 --> 00:28:17,851
Like it doesn't make any sense for

810
00:28:17,851 --> 00:28:18,545
a developer.

811
00:28:18,545 --> 00:28:19,339
Yeah, no, exactly.

812
00:28:19,439 --> 00:28:23,280
It makes sense if you can get four
units and you can get it done in

813
00:28:23,460 --> 00:28:24,940
12 months.

814
00:28:24,980 --> 00:28:25,897
Yeah, speed for sure.

815
00:28:25,897 --> 00:28:30,200
And where these guys tend to make
money is where they can go from

816
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:31,906
building to building to building
to building to building.

817
00:28:31,906 --> 00:28:31,961
Yeah.

818
00:28:31,961 --> 00:28:34,380
And, you know, you look at a great

819
00:28:34,380 --> 00:28:36,198
example of this being done really
well in Kelowna, folks.

820
00:28:36,198 --> 00:28:39,720
It was either phase one or phase
two at the ponds.

821
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,534
And this is back in 07, 08.

822
00:28:41,534 --> 00:28:43,380
They came in and built homes that

823
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,669
were at the time, I think,
$100,000 to $200,000 less than the

824
00:28:46,669 --> 00:28:47,283
average home price.

825
00:28:47,283 --> 00:28:48,450
These were small two and three

826
00:28:48,450 --> 00:28:51,726
bedroom laneway homes and just
went from one to the next one to

827
00:28:52,037 --> 00:28:53,651
the next one.

828
00:28:53,651 --> 00:28:55,641
And it was a great development for

829
00:28:55,641 --> 00:28:57,943
a time when, yeah, it was hard to
build.

830
00:28:57,943 --> 00:28:59,456
That developer did a great job.

831
00:28:59,456 --> 00:29:01,093
So where do you see Kelowna going

832
00:29:01,093 --> 00:29:04,212
then in the next 10, 15 years?
Like density?

833
00:29:04,212 --> 00:29:06,310
Are we going to get more towers?
Are we going to get fourplexes?

834
00:29:06,310 --> 00:29:09,317
Or like our single family homes,
are they going to grow obsolete

835
00:29:09,317 --> 00:29:11,989
because of affordability?
Well, City of Kelowna has already

836
00:29:11,989 --> 00:29:14,789
threatened to stop zoning single
family, right?

837
00:29:14,789 --> 00:29:16,044
That was on the table.

838
00:29:16,044 --> 00:29:18,059
And then there was a big outcry.

839
00:29:17,959 --> 00:29:21,031
And so then that came off the
table.

840
00:29:20,931 --> 00:29:23,771
I don't think it's good government
to say that we're going to stop

841
00:29:23,771 --> 00:29:24,299
doing something.

842
00:29:24,399 --> 00:29:26,742
You have to do it one way.

843
00:29:26,742 --> 00:29:29,120
I think we need a variety of
housing types.

844
00:29:29,540 --> 00:29:31,727
I think that's a good way to go.

845
00:29:31,727 --> 00:29:32,513
But, you know, personally, I'm

846
00:29:32,513 --> 00:29:35,083
more of a fan of Paris than
downtown Vancouver.

847
00:29:35,083 --> 00:29:42,452
Like, I think you can have a
lovely city with mid-rise towers

848
00:29:42,452 --> 00:29:48,552
that is absolutely beautiful yeah
but that's an aesthetic thing in

849
00:29:48,552 --> 00:29:29,665
terms of you know what i would
prefer but you know does it mean

850
00:29:51,557 --> 00:29:54,616
density yes i think the right
density in the right place makes

851
00:29:54,616 --> 00:29:58,643
sense but density makes sense when
you also have public transit that

852
00:29:58,642 --> 00:30:02,920
works right we have a city where
how do you get around in the city

853
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,116
without a car maybe there's going
to be you, autonomous robot cars

854
00:30:06,016 --> 00:30:08,780
soon because that would really
help help Well, got scooters

855
00:30:10,592 --> 00:30:11,120
right?
now, Yeah.

856
00:30:11,140 --> 00:30:12,473
autonomous robot scooters would be
Well, great.

857
00:30:12,473 --> 00:30:12,588
Yeah.

858
00:30:12,588 --> 00:30:13,458
That would help too.

859
00:30:13,458 --> 00:30:17,673
But I really think that Kelowna
has grown so fast in a very short

860
00:30:17,673 --> 00:30:18,225
period of time.

861
00:30:18,225 --> 00:30:20,047
I'm one of the few people that

862
00:30:20,047 --> 00:30:21,152
were born here.

863
00:30:21,152 --> 00:30:23,824
So I remember this town I think it

864
00:30:23,824 --> 00:30:25,281
at, was 40 or 50,000 people.

865
00:30:25,244 --> 00:30:25,973
You there's know, no Coquihalla.

866
00:30:26,073 --> 00:30:27,889
The airport has two gates that you
just walk up to.

867
00:30:27,789 --> 00:30:30,097
It was a very, very different
feeling town then.

868
00:30:30,097 --> 00:30:32,189
And, you know, of course, my
grandparents remember it when

869
00:30:32,189 --> 00:30:34,660
there was a ferry that you took
across the lake.

870
00:30:34,860 --> 00:30:36,116
That's what happened when they
were here.

871
00:30:36,116 --> 00:30:38,480
So it was a very different feeling
place.

872
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,000
And you look at the growth from
then to now, the growing pains

873
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,020
aren't unexpected in that context.

874
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:43,480
But nonetheless, everybody's here.

875
00:30:44,020 --> 00:30:45,153
Everybody's here to stay.

876
00:30:45,153 --> 00:30:46,894
So how do we now facilitate the

877
00:30:46,894 --> 00:30:50,043
right infrastructure in the right
places to make it all happen

878
00:30:50,043 --> 00:30:54,139
without, I'm just going to say
poor Asunios here, like a 37% tax

879
00:30:54,139 --> 00:30:54,301
increase.

880
00:30:54,301 --> 00:30:56,152
What is up with that?

881
00:30:56,152 --> 00:30:57,057
That's crazy.

882
00:30:56,957 --> 00:30:58,909
Well, that's a water system,

883
00:30:58,909 --> 00:31:01,032
right?
Like that's a town who grew really

884
00:31:00,932 --> 00:31:03,798
fast and, you know, they don't
have wells to support the people

885
00:31:03,798 --> 00:31:06,799
that are there and the people need
water and it's a desert.

886
00:31:06,799 --> 00:31:07,315
Yeah.

887
00:31:07,315 --> 00:31:10,772
So you got to do what you got to

888
00:31:10,772 --> 00:31:11,001
do.

889
00:31:11,001 --> 00:31:13,604
So I understand the rock and the

890
00:31:13,604 --> 00:31:15,518
hard place without water, you
don't have a town.

891
00:31:15,518 --> 00:31:16,054
is Yeah.

892
00:31:16,054 --> 00:31:17,717
You said something there, like the

893
00:31:17,717 --> 00:31:18,892
comparable of Paris.

894
00:31:18,892 --> 00:31:21,320
And there was a guy that wrote an

895
00:31:21,660 --> 00:31:23,188
article and did a video on it.

896
00:31:23,188 --> 00:31:24,786
And it was for North America.

897
00:31:24,786 --> 00:31:28,034
I think it was under four stories
or no, over four stories.

898
00:31:28,034 --> 00:31:31,020
You had to have two stairway, two
emergency exits in North America.

899
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,644
And he's like, every other country
in the world, you can go up to six

900
00:31:34,644 --> 00:31:38,392
stories and you're allowed this
one staircase and it allows the

901
00:31:38,392 --> 00:31:40,920
architects to make like three
bedroom units and more windows.

902
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,865
And you started to watch this
video of him describing it and he

903
00:31:44,865 --> 00:31:46,440
made a lot of good points.

904
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:48,278
And I guess it was, you know,

905
00:31:48,278 --> 00:31:50,690
earlier in the 1900s, it was
mostly because of, you know, fire

906
00:31:50,690 --> 00:31:51,977
issues that we were having.

907
00:31:51,977 --> 00:31:53,660
But he said, you know, now we've

908
00:31:53,660 --> 00:31:54,589
evolved, our building materials
are better.

909
00:31:54,689 --> 00:31:56,657
Our response from emergency
responders are much faster.

910
00:31:56,657 --> 00:31:59,915
Like we don't need to have those
kind of limitations so yeah maybe

911
00:31:59,915 --> 00:32:05,457
we could turn this into paris if
we kind of revamped some of those

912
00:32:05,457 --> 00:32:08,529
by the way with the eiffel well
the other thing to consider is

913
00:32:08,529 --> 00:32:11,331
what you can actually build with
right you know one of my favorite

914
00:32:11,331 --> 00:32:13,664
places to teach legal update is
actually prince george because the

915
00:32:13,664 --> 00:32:15,741
licensees up there are awesome by
the the way.

916
00:32:15,741 --> 00:32:18,299
So shout out to the storage guys
if they're But like engineered you

917
00:32:18,299 --> 00:32:20,296
can build like eight story timber,
buildings with engineered six,

918
00:32:20,296 --> 00:32:21,063
seven, timber.

919
00:32:21,063 --> 00:32:21,191
Yeah.

920
00:32:21,191 --> 00:32:24,069
That, you know, is great on the
environment, supports local

921
00:32:24,069 --> 00:32:27,140
industry, all that stuff.

922
00:32:26,943 --> 00:32:29,700
So, yeah, like to really look at

923
00:32:29,639 --> 00:32:35,600
that stuff and to say, well, we
can do this a different way and to

924
00:32:35,538 --> 00:32:35,600
support, you know, good medium
density would be wonderful in this

925
00:32:35,584 --> 00:32:37,130
with engineered six, seven,
timber.

926
00:32:37,122 --> 00:32:37,172
Yeah.

927
00:32:37,164 --> 00:32:37,600
We should have started with this,

928
00:32:37,474 --> 00:32:41,712
but can you tell us a little bit
about your business then?

929
00:32:41,668 --> 00:32:43,469
What, like, instead of just
hammering you with like politics

930
00:32:43,456 --> 00:32:47,469
and how to save us, what's your
normal transaction?

931
00:32:47,469 --> 00:32:48,696
Do you help on the residential,
commercial?

932
00:32:48,696 --> 00:32:48,764
dictator.

933
00:32:48,864 --> 00:32:49,205
Yeah.

934
00:32:49,105 --> 00:32:52,474
Listeners that are listening, who
should be reaching out to you?

935
00:32:52,374 --> 00:32:54,734
of the partners of Montgomery
Miles and Stone, a law firm here

936
00:32:54,734 --> 00:32:55,215
in Kelowna.

937
00:32:55,215 --> 00:32:57,437
I am a business and real estate

938
00:32:57,437 --> 00:32:57,705
lawyer.

939
00:32:57,805 --> 00:32:59,917
So all of my clients kind of meet

940
00:33:00,017 --> 00:33:02,101
at the intersection of business
and real estate.

941
00:33:02,101 --> 00:33:04,209
the intersection of business and
real estate.

942
00:33:04,209 --> 00:33:10,907
So that means I do a lot of work
with winery owners and liquor

943
00:33:11,007 --> 00:33:13,169
store owners and dentists and
medical professionals and, of

944
00:33:13,169 --> 00:33:16,162
course, developers and people who
are building real estate,

945
00:33:16,162 --> 00:33:18,539
industrial landowners, shopping
center owners, kind of all

946
00:33:18,539 --> 00:33:20,649
comprise my portfolio of clients.

947
00:33:20,549 --> 00:33:23,230
So if people are kind of at that

948
00:33:23,230 --> 00:33:26,636
intersection and that's what
they're looking for, they have a

949
00:33:26,536 --> 00:33:29,796
business that involves a lot of
land holdings dealing with leases

950
00:33:29,696 --> 00:33:32,268
and covenants and utilities and
those types of things that's what

951
00:33:32,268 --> 00:33:35,636
i do i don't do any litigation so
i'm not involved in any kind of

952
00:33:35,636 --> 00:33:37,347
like expropriation or you know
shareholder disputes or those

953
00:33:37,347 --> 00:33:40,880
types of things i like to focus on
the building aspect of things and

954
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,860
not the tearing apart so how don't
do litigation it's because you

955
00:33:43,860 --> 00:33:45,914
just don't want to?
I don't have time.

956
00:33:45,914 --> 00:33:45,971
Yeah.

957
00:33:45,971 --> 00:33:47,526
I guess it's too busy No, mostly

958
00:33:47,526 --> 00:33:50,197
because I don't have time and I
much prefer the kind of the build

959
00:33:50,197 --> 00:33:51,553
it together type of thing.

960
00:33:51,653 --> 00:33:51,847
Yeah.

961
00:33:51,747 --> 00:33:53,358
I went to law school.

962
00:33:53,358 --> 00:33:55,935
I have a lot of friends who are

963
00:33:55,935 --> 00:34:00,019
lawyers, but this is my come as a
shock to most is that like the

964
00:34:00,019 --> 00:34:01,360
litigation process itself is
extremely adversarial and

965
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:02,747
extremely destructive and
extremely expensive.

966
00:34:02,747 --> 00:34:02,927
Yes.

967
00:34:02,927 --> 00:34:03,048
Right.

968
00:34:03,048 --> 00:34:05,821
I don't know too many people
who've gone through prolonged

969
00:34:05,821 --> 00:34:09,378
litigation that come out of it and
say, oh, that was a complete, you

970
00:34:09,378 --> 00:34:10,458
know, absolutely the best thing I
ever did.

971
00:34:10,458 --> 00:34:11,904
When can I do that again?
Yeah.

972
00:34:12,004 --> 00:34:14,205
And nobody's going to sign up for
a second act.

973
00:34:14,205 --> 00:34:15,708
the best thing I ever did.

974
00:34:15,708 --> 00:34:17,018
When can I do that again?

975
00:34:17,018 --> 00:34:17,119
Yeah.

976
00:34:17,219 --> 00:34:19,987
So, you know, why do I want to be

977
00:34:19,987 --> 00:34:20,732
that guy?
Yeah.

978
00:34:20,632 --> 00:34:20,824
Right.

979
00:34:20,824 --> 00:34:23,822
I would much rather be the guy

980
00:34:23,722 --> 00:34:26,723
that's like, oh, yeah, my lawyer
helped me build that building

981
00:34:26,723 --> 00:34:26,860
there.

982
00:34:26,860 --> 00:34:28,803
Or my lawyer helped me do that

983
00:34:28,803 --> 00:34:30,397
winery over there or you're
building stuff.

984
00:34:30,397 --> 00:34:31,782
And, you know, I drive around town
now.

985
00:34:31,782 --> 00:34:35,199
It's like, OK, you kind of have a
legacy and you see that legacy in

986
00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:36,291
all the buildings that you've
touched.

987
00:34:36,291 --> 00:34:38,013
And, you know, I drive around town
now.

988
00:34:38,013 --> 00:34:41,754
It's like, okay, you kind of have
a legacy and you see that legacy

989
00:34:41,754 --> 00:34:42,877
in all the buildings that you've
touched.

990
00:34:42,877 --> 00:34:52,574
And, you know, sometimes it's
little things like, oh, I just,

991
00:34:52,533 --> 00:34:52,699
you know, realigned the highway
over there.

992
00:34:52,619 --> 00:34:52,699
Okay, cool.

993
00:34:52,654 --> 00:34:58,156
But that's stuff that kind of

994
00:34:58,056 --> 00:34:59,788
means something as opposed to
literally tearing stuff apart.

995
00:34:59,788 --> 00:35:02,023
And so just from a kind of a
personal perspective, that's the

996
00:35:01,996 --> 00:35:03,165
stuff that it gets me up in the
morning.

997
00:35:03,165 --> 00:35:05,127
It makes it fun to go to work and
to do work.

998
00:35:05,027 --> 00:34:52,699
A lot of times my practice will
touch on litigation in the sense

999
00:34:52,681 --> 00:35:09,306
of like one of my clients is
coming back to me and there's

1000
00:35:09,306 --> 00:35:09,934
having a dispute.

1001
00:35:09,934 --> 00:35:12,474
So I'll kind of get involved in

1002
00:35:12,374 --> 00:35:15,620
kind of the early stages of, you
know, the mean, nasty letters

1003
00:35:15,620 --> 00:35:16,725
getting back and forth.

1004
00:35:16,725 --> 00:35:18,587
And then I get quickly reminded,

1005
00:35:18,587 --> 00:35:21,880
I'm like, don't work this.

1006
00:35:27,020 --> 00:35:27,826
I touched it.

1007
00:35:27,926 --> 00:35:32,240
It was too hot i'm like no you
know what i know people who really

1008
00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:35,523
like this and so let's let them
you know do the court application

1009
00:35:35,523 --> 00:35:39,092
we're blessed in this town that
this is a desirable place to live

1010
00:35:39,092 --> 00:35:46,808
and we've gotten really good
specialized counsel kind of in all

1011
00:35:46,808 --> 00:35:48,400
areas so yeah you know when
somebody wants to fight the

1012
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,788
government i know who to tap when
they want to fight each other i

1013
00:35:50,788 --> 00:35:53,435
know who to tap when they want to
fight each other.

1014
00:35:53,435 --> 00:35:55,550
I know who to tap.

1015
00:35:55,650 --> 00:35:58,062
If somebody wants to get divorced,

1016
00:35:58,062 --> 00:35:59,722
I can tap that guy.

1017
00:35:59,822 --> 00:36:01,602
So I'll just pass the baton and

1018
00:36:01,602 --> 00:36:03,482
let them do that stuff.

1019
00:36:03,482 --> 00:36:05,208
And I'll just stick to, you know,

1020
00:36:05,208 --> 00:36:06,603
building more wineries and growing
more grapes.

1021
00:36:06,603 --> 00:36:06,818
Yeah.

1022
00:36:06,818 --> 00:36:09,194
We need help with that right now,

1023
00:36:09,194 --> 00:36:10,068
I think.

1024
00:36:10,068 --> 00:36:12,180
I get I Oh, we really do.

1025
00:36:12,180 --> 00:36:12,763
We really do.

1026
00:36:12,763 --> 00:36:15,221
So I had a meeting with a bank

1027
00:36:15,221 --> 00:36:19,376
manager yesterday, and they had
just done their risk assessment on

1028
00:36:19,376 --> 00:36:19,530
this.

1029
00:36:19,530 --> 00:36:21,174
This is a bank manager in the

1030
00:36:21,174 --> 00:36:21,581
Southern Okanagan.

1031
00:36:21,581 --> 00:36:23,386
And they had just done a risk

1032
00:36:23,386 --> 00:36:26,952
assessment on this bank manager in
the southern okanagan and they had

1033
00:36:26,952 --> 00:36:30,222
just done a risk assessment on
their portfolio and it was bleak

1034
00:36:30,222 --> 00:36:37,191
it was really really bleak the
hard thing in that industry is

1035
00:36:37,191 --> 00:36:39,991
that you know they're estimating
somewhere between 80 to 90 crop

1036
00:36:39,991 --> 00:36:43,177
loss or yeah so when you look at
that it's not going to affect

1037
00:36:43,177 --> 00:36:46,750
thankfully for all of us who love
wine it's not going to affect next

1038
00:36:46,750 --> 00:36:50,354
year's bottles yeah but it'll
affect the year after that's

1039
00:36:50,354 --> 00:36:56,105
whites and it'll affect the year
after that's you know light reds

1040
00:36:56,005 --> 00:37:00,658
and the year after that's dark
reds so you look at that loss of

1041
00:37:00,658 --> 00:37:04,383
supply and you think okay well how
is that going to affect some of

1042
00:37:04,383 --> 00:37:06,607
these businesses well for some of
those let's just call them the mom

1043
00:37:06,707 --> 00:37:04,762
and pop wineries and i have a few
of them in my collection where

1044
00:37:04,762 --> 00:37:06,607
they may only have one small
winery of seven acres or

1045
00:37:06,707 --> 00:37:06,978
something.

1046
00:37:09,980 --> 00:37:11,030
There's a lot like that.

1047
00:37:11,030 --> 00:37:12,253
There's that somebody's dream
retirement folks, right?

1048
00:37:12,353 --> 00:37:15,201
Like, and you talk about the
intersection of land and business,

1049
00:37:15,201 --> 00:37:18,281
but there's a lot of emotion tied
up in land in that.

1050
00:37:18,181 --> 00:37:20,020
That's another part of my job that
I really like.

1051
00:37:20,020 --> 00:37:22,662
So for that person, I'm assuming
they have diverse portfolio of

1052
00:37:22,662 --> 00:37:23,015
wines.

1053
00:37:23,015 --> 00:37:24,600
They're going to lose 30% of their

1054
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:25,104
income over the next four years,
right?

1055
00:37:25,104 --> 00:37:25,661
That's going to be really hard.

1056
00:37:25,661 --> 00:37:26,678
And unfortunately, this favors the

1057
00:37:26,484 --> 00:37:27,766
big producers because they're
going to be able to pull from

1058
00:37:27,598 --> 00:37:28,037
multiple wineries in multiple
locations.

1059
00:37:27,943 --> 00:37:28,674
They're going to be diversified
from that risk.

1060
00:37:28,633 --> 00:37:30,382
And they're going to be able to
probably acquire some of those

1061
00:37:30,382 --> 00:37:32,900
smaller producers at a discount
now because they're going to have

1062
00:37:32,900 --> 00:37:37,981
to sell so you know that's kind of
the sad part for those of us that

1063
00:37:37,981 --> 00:37:42,272
like you know small local unique
wines and well i think that's a

1064
00:37:42,272 --> 00:37:46,626
lot of us one us one of the
reasons why we even live here yeah

1065
00:37:46,726 --> 00:37:50,158
right so like like before the coal
snap hit and hurt the grapes like

1066
00:37:50,058 --> 00:37:52,694
there was already a lot of
wineries were already for sale i

1067
00:37:52,694 --> 00:37:54,725
think it was like something like
25% of wineries were for sale.

1068
00:37:54,725 --> 00:37:56,844
Well, that's because it happened
the year before, but just, you

1069
00:37:56,844 --> 00:37:58,167
know, it was a much lighter hit.

1070
00:37:58,167 --> 00:37:59,955
It was about a 25% hit the year

1071
00:37:59,955 --> 00:38:00,265
after.

1072
00:38:00,265 --> 00:38:01,483
And I remember walking the vines

1073
00:38:01,461 --> 00:38:05,063
with one of my favorite clients
and we were down in Okanagan Falls

1074
00:38:04,963 --> 00:38:07,646
and he was just counting his lucky
stars because he had only lost

1075
00:38:07,646 --> 00:38:10,466
about 10% of those vines, much
better than the 25% average.

1076
00:38:10,466 --> 00:38:14,202
And so he was like, okay, stars
because he had only lost about 10

1077
00:38:14,202 --> 00:38:17,810
of those vines much better than
the 25 and so he was like okay

1078
00:38:17,809 --> 00:38:20,874
we'll replant see what happens but
now to lose 80 or 90 and the hard

1079
00:38:20,874 --> 00:38:23,260
part is that those vines are eight
yeah five years to recover folks

1080
00:38:23,227 --> 00:38:25,027
yeah so eight see so because what
do you think of the winter we just

1081
00:38:24,927 --> 00:38:25,727
had it was like kind of warm.

1082
00:38:25,727 --> 00:38:26,410
It was warmer than average.

1083
00:38:26,393 --> 00:38:26,793
Yeah, it was.

1084
00:38:26,727 --> 00:38:28,776
We had one cold snap and it just a

1085
00:38:28,776 --> 00:38:29,304
little too cold.

1086
00:38:29,304 --> 00:38:30,852
Kind of crazy to think about that.

1087
00:38:30,952 --> 00:38:31,214
Yeah.

1088
00:38:31,114 --> 00:38:32,894
I think in April, there's an

1089
00:38:32,894 --> 00:38:34,792
additional tax coming out on
alcohol as well.

1090
00:38:34,789 --> 00:38:36,584
So they're just getting hammered
from both That's thanks to

1091
00:38:36,584 --> 00:38:37,021
Alberta.

1092
00:38:37,021 --> 00:38:38,411
You're talking about the Alberta

1093
00:38:38,411 --> 00:38:38,466
thing?
Yeah.

1094
00:38:38,466 --> 00:38:38,633
Yeah.

1095
00:38:38,633 --> 00:38:39,576
That's not done yet though.

1096
00:38:39,576 --> 00:38:41,518
We still have a few punches left.

1097
00:38:41,518 --> 00:38:42,960
the difference between a notary

1098
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:44,940
and a lawyer?
I mean, this is probably an easy

1099
00:38:50,620 --> 00:38:50,824
one for you.

1100
00:38:50,824 --> 00:38:51,345
When I speak with clients about

1101
00:38:51,335 --> 00:38:52,476
it, I'm kind of like a lawyer can
give you legal advice.

1102
00:38:52,357 --> 00:38:53,134
Notary is kind of signing off on
the documents.

1103
00:38:53,134 --> 00:38:54,131
So why should somebody come to a
lawyer when we're talking real

1104
00:38:54,034 --> 00:38:54,785
estate transactions?
Well, in my view, it depends on

1105
00:38:54,729 --> 00:38:55,260
what you're doing.

1106
00:38:55,260 --> 00:38:56,887
It depends on kind of where you're

1107
00:38:56,887 --> 00:38:59,571
at on kind of the type of advice
that you're seeking.

1108
00:38:59,571 --> 00:39:02,377
There's lots of notaries that can
do a residential conveyance.

1109
00:39:02,377 --> 00:39:05,360
That's kind of within, you know,
their kind of statutorily mandated

1110
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,269
things of what they can do.

1111
00:39:07,269 --> 00:39:08,783
They can find land title

1112
00:39:08,783 --> 00:39:09,046
documents.

1113
00:39:09,046 --> 00:39:09,770
That's great.

1114
00:39:09,770 --> 00:39:13,293
And I know a lot of notaries that
I like to work with in that

1115
00:39:13,293 --> 00:39:13,423
regard.

1116
00:39:13,423 --> 00:39:14,464
They're very affable people.

1117
00:39:14,464 --> 00:39:16,609
I think from a lawyer's
perspective, and this kind of goes

1118
00:39:16,609 --> 00:39:19,532
across the profession, is that you
should get a lawyer that really

1119
00:39:19,532 --> 00:39:21,616
focuses on the area that you need
help on.

1120
00:39:21,616 --> 00:39:24,377
And I think you heard me earlier
in saying that, like, I'm not

1121
00:39:24,377 --> 00:39:25,656
going to do family law.

1122
00:39:25,656 --> 00:39:27,940
I'm not going to do any

1123
00:39:28,060 --> 00:39:28,340
litigation.

1124
00:39:28,340 --> 00:39:28,390
Right.

1125
00:39:28,380 --> 00:39:31,990
You really want a lawyer that
focuses on that area.

1126
00:39:31,890 --> 00:39:33,680
And that's not really necessarily
a notary lawyer dynamic.

1127
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,300
You just want somebody who's
really focused on your issue and

1128
00:39:36,300 --> 00:39:38,921
your problem and has hopefully
seen it before so they can help

1129
00:39:38,921 --> 00:39:39,274
you out.

1130
00:39:39,274 --> 00:39:40,977
It's kind of like choosing a

1131
00:39:40,977 --> 00:39:43,776
doctor, right?
You know, or a dentist, right?

1132
00:39:43,776 --> 00:39:47,512
You wouldn't say, okay, I'd like
my dentist to do a full mouth

1133
00:39:47,512 --> 00:39:49,615
reconstruction when they've never
done one before.

1134
00:39:49,615 --> 00:39:52,344
Probably not, right?
Like you want a guy that's like,

1135
00:39:52,344 --> 00:39:54,353
okay, that's what I do.

1136
00:39:54,353 --> 00:39:55,261
I do full mouth reconstruction.

1137
00:39:55,261 --> 00:39:59,720
I'm the guy for you, you know, or
if your surgeon's never done an

1138
00:39:59,720 --> 00:40:01,338
appendectomy, maybe I'm finding
someone else.

1139
00:40:01,338 --> 00:40:05,419
I know it's simple surgery and you
went to medical school, but I want

1140
00:40:05,419 --> 00:40:07,146
a guy who's been there before.

1141
00:40:07,146 --> 00:40:08,671
And I think that's true with every

1142
00:40:08,671 --> 00:40:09,892
professional, whether we're
talking to accountants or

1143
00:40:09,892 --> 00:40:13,207
engineers or anything else, you
want a guy who has experience or

1144
00:40:13,207 --> 00:40:15,146
gal who has experience in doing
what you want.

1145
00:40:15,146 --> 00:40:16,723
And so that's kind of the crux of
it.

1146
00:40:16,723 --> 00:40:19,174
So in terms of kind of the
residential purchaser and the

1147
00:40:19,174 --> 00:40:21,563
lawyer-notary kind of game, from
my perspective, it's who can you

1148
00:40:21,563 --> 00:40:24,433
talk to and get really good advice
right at the beginning of the

1149
00:40:24,433 --> 00:40:24,616
transaction.

1150
00:40:24,616 --> 00:40:25,959
Even with my residential clients,

1151
00:40:25,959 --> 00:40:29,321
my rule of thumb for all the
realtors that I work with is send

1152
00:40:29,421 --> 00:40:31,687
the clients to talk to me as soon
as they sign that contract.

1153
00:40:31,687 --> 00:40:36,589
I don't care if subject removal is
three weeks out and I don't care

1154
00:40:36,589 --> 00:40:38,669
if they don't actually remove
subjects on it.

1155
00:40:38,669 --> 00:40:41,902
I want to talk to them when they
sign that contract so that they

1156
00:40:41,902 --> 00:40:43,912
fully understand what's in that
contract and what's on that title.

1157
00:40:43,812 --> 00:40:46,028
And this is when I say we, I mean
like all the lawyers at my firm,

1158
00:40:46,028 --> 00:40:47,708
MMS, who, you know, real estate is
a big focus area of ours.

1159
00:40:47,708 --> 00:40:49,160
We go through that contract and
that title with that client and

1160
00:40:49,103 --> 00:40:51,308
make sure that they are completely
comfortable with what they signed,

1161
00:40:51,308 --> 00:40:54,476
the legal ramifications of what
they've signed, because even if

1162
00:40:54,476 --> 00:40:57,330
you sign a contract for subject
conditions, there's still legal

1163
00:40:58,388 --> 00:41:00,082
ramifications to it.

1164
00:41:00,082 --> 00:41:01,503
You have a best efforts obligation

1165
00:41:01,503 --> 00:41:02,594
to kind of take that through.

1166
00:41:02,594 --> 00:41:03,927
That's a recent Supreme Court case

1167
00:41:03,927 --> 00:41:06,106
called the scene that have
overlaid that the good faith

1168
00:41:06,106 --> 00:41:06,695
doctrine of contractual
performance.

1169
00:41:06,696 --> 00:41:09,327
And so we take them through that
so that they understand what

1170
00:41:09,324 --> 00:41:10,280
they've signed.

1171
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,508
And then at the end of the day,

1172
00:41:12,508 --> 00:41:14,244
they decide not to proceed with
the transaction.

1173
00:41:14,244 --> 00:41:17,280
For our firm case, there's no
legal fees that are owed.

1174
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:18,380
We'll just see on the next one.

1175
00:41:18,580 --> 00:41:19,680
I think that's so important to

1176
00:41:19,780 --> 00:41:24,771
highlight because, like I say, a
lot of contracts, you write a lot

1177
00:41:24,771 --> 00:41:24,985
of contracts.

1178
00:41:24,985 --> 00:41:26,434
And it's a subject question on

1179
00:41:26,434 --> 00:41:26,919
almost every client.

1180
00:41:26,919 --> 00:41:27,836
It's subject to the lawyer.

1181
00:41:27,836 --> 00:41:29,344
Cause I don't want to pay them.

1182
00:41:29,344 --> 00:41:29,620
Well, yeah.

1183
00:41:29,620 --> 00:41:31,769
And it's always subject to
financing, subject to home

1184
00:41:31,769 --> 00:41:33,740
inspection, subject to legal
advice and legal advice is

1185
00:41:33,740 --> 00:41:35,593
normally a couple of days after
the contract sign.

1186
00:41:35,593 --> 00:41:39,128
And I'm like, Oh, so did you like,
who's your lawyer?

1187
00:41:39,128 --> 00:41:41,775
Like, who should I be sending
instructions to from the lender?

1188
00:41:41,775 --> 00:41:43,086
Oh, I haven't picked one yet.

1189
00:41:43,086 --> 00:41:44,611
I'm like, well, why'd you remove

1190
00:41:44,711 --> 00:41:46,808
subjects on legal advice?
Well, I don't know.

1191
00:41:46,808 --> 00:41:49,592
I mean, like, it's like, what are
you doing?

1192
00:41:49,492 --> 00:41:50,547
This is step one.

1193
00:41:50,547 --> 00:41:52,713
So, well, a great example of that.

1194
00:41:52,713 --> 00:41:53,708
And it's a reported case.

1195
00:41:53,708 --> 00:41:56,124
You can take a look at the

1196
00:41:56,124 --> 00:41:57,284
pictures on RTCO is 282 Raven
drive.

1197
00:41:57,284 --> 00:41:58,075
It's the Elyson Sorenson case.

1198
00:41:58,075 --> 00:41:59,792
And that's a great example because

1199
00:41:59,892 --> 00:42:03,735
in that case like the pool was
like clearly in the middle of the

1200
00:42:03,735 --> 00:42:07,696
property line and they went to
court and the guy lost his pool

1201
00:42:07,696 --> 00:42:10,373
yeah you can actually see it on
the rdc open pinterest it's right

1202
00:42:10,373 --> 00:42:12,816
there it was a case that we talked
about in legal update and so

1203
00:42:12,816 --> 00:42:14,950
that's a great example of where
what happened the property line

1204
00:42:14,950 --> 00:42:19,726
was literally in the middle of the
pool in the middle of what you can

1205
00:42:19,726 --> 00:42:22,850
tell from the aerial photos
whoever put the You pool.

1206
00:42:22,850 --> 00:42:24,392
could tell from the aerial photos.

1207
00:42:24,392 --> 00:42:25,980
Whoever put the pool in just said,

1208
00:42:25,980 --> 00:42:26,986
fuck it, the permits and just
went.

1209
00:42:27,086 --> 00:42:29,118
Well, whoever originally put the
hedge in, put the hedge in

1210
00:42:29,218 --> 00:42:31,407
straight to the back of the
property line, not knowing the

1211
00:42:31,407 --> 00:42:32,170
property line actually went.

1212
00:42:32,170 --> 00:42:34,455
And so And so was the adjacent

1213
00:42:34,455 --> 00:42:37,670
property line a different owner?
So the So the adjacent property

1214
00:42:37,670 --> 00:42:38,987
line's pool went right here.

1215
00:42:38,887 --> 00:42:39,816
And so City of Kelowna permitted

1216
00:42:39,816 --> 00:42:40,308
that pool.

1217
00:42:40,408 --> 00:42:41,292
Oh, really?

1218
00:42:41,292 --> 00:42:42,440
There was multiple, there was
multiple owners.

1219
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,436
There was multiple owners that
were intervening before the owners

1220
00:42:45,436 --> 00:42:46,544
that finally litigated.

1221
00:42:46,644 --> 00:42:48,498
And it wasn't until one of the

1222
00:42:48,498 --> 00:42:52,218
owners wanted to actually put up a
new fence and did a survey for the

1223
00:42:52,118 --> 00:42:55,884
new fence that they found out,
hey, look, it's one right there.

1224
00:42:55,884 --> 00:42:58,740
So that's an example of a survey
issue, which, you know, like the

1225
00:42:58,740 --> 00:43:02,080
lawyer looks at the plan, but
that's also partially, you know,

1226
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,885
the realtor saying, okay, does
this plan look like the property?

1227
00:43:04,985 --> 00:43:07,458
Because the realtor is the one
that's walking through it.

1228
00:43:07,458 --> 00:43:11,834
And that's partially the homeowner
too, in the sense of like, you

1229
00:43:11,834 --> 00:43:13,493
know, does this property that
you're seeing the overhead, does

1230
00:43:13,493 --> 00:43:15,098
that match?
Because the homeowner signs off on

1231
00:43:15,098 --> 00:43:20,166
the plan when they come in and see
us, Does that shape of the lot

1232
00:43:20,166 --> 00:43:21,533
match your understanding of what
you're buying?

1233
00:43:21,533 --> 00:43:24,462
I know another great example, and
I fixed this one for the lawyers

1234
00:43:24,562 --> 00:43:25,560
out in Rheum.

1235
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:26,527
This is a townhome development

1236
00:43:26,527 --> 00:43:28,768
where we had four block townhomes,
five, six, seven, eight in a row.

1237
00:43:28,768 --> 00:43:29,120
Okay.

1238
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:29,922
But when they issued the straddle

1239
00:43:29,922 --> 00:43:31,927
lot numbers, it was five, six,
seven, eight, the opposite way.

1240
00:43:31,927 --> 00:43:32,178
Yeah.

1241
00:43:32,178 --> 00:43:32,679
Perfect.

1242
00:43:32,679 --> 00:43:35,371
So for 20 years, folks, 20 years,
Straddle Lot 5 owned Straddle Lot

1243
00:43:35,371 --> 00:43:36,625
8 and Straddle Lot 8 owned
Straddle Lot 5.

1244
00:43:36,625 --> 00:43:39,565
And it continued that way for
almost 20 years and different

1245
00:43:39,565 --> 00:43:40,072
owners.

1246
00:43:40,072 --> 00:43:41,342
And then it wasn't until,

1247
00:43:41,342 --> 00:43:45,218
thankfully, an astute lawyer out
there kind of looked at it and had

1248
00:43:45,218 --> 00:43:47,160
his client like say, well, this is
north.

1249
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,440
Like, which way does your balcony
face?

1250
00:43:49,580 --> 00:43:52,610
And she's like, no, I'm supposed
to buy that one.

1251
00:43:52,610 --> 00:43:55,357
And it's like, well, that's not
the one we're supposed to.

1252
00:43:55,357 --> 00:43:56,897
And so there's this big issue.

1253
00:43:56,897 --> 00:43:58,485
And that lawyer called me and

1254
00:43:58,485 --> 00:44:00,810
said, Peter, how do we fix this
problem?

1255
00:44:00,810 --> 00:44:03,915
And so we got to fixing it and
fixed it.

1256
00:44:03,915 --> 00:44:08,188
But so did everybody have to pay
PTT on that?

1257
00:44:08,188 --> 00:44:08,287
Yeah.

1258
00:44:08,287 --> 00:44:08,386
What?

1259
00:44:08,386 --> 00:44:09,126
Oh, my God.

1260
00:44:09,126 --> 00:44:09,326
Yeah.

1261
00:44:09,324 --> 00:44:10,511
Our province at its finest.

1262
00:44:10,509 --> 00:44:12,108
That is not a PTT exemption.

1263
00:44:12,108 --> 00:44:14,095
There is a PTT exemption for
conveyance error, but PTT has

1264
00:44:14,095 --> 00:44:16,385
clearly said, no, that doesn't
count as conveyance error.

1265
00:44:16,385 --> 00:44:18,760
that's Straddle Lot 8 So I guess
the other is everybody could just

1266
00:44:19,300 --> 00:44:20,481
move, which obviously never going
to happen.

1267
00:44:20,481 --> 00:44:22,566
Save yourself 20 grand in tax and
move your couch.

1268
00:44:22,466 --> 00:44:23,127
They're the same square footage,
right?

1269
00:44:23,127 --> 00:44:26,230
These are townhome units, but
really easy kind of, you know,

1270
00:44:26,130 --> 00:44:26,700
just swap.

1271
00:44:26,700 --> 00:44:27,893
So, you know, things like that,

1272
00:44:27,893 --> 00:44:30,247
like why is the lawyer important
in context of a transaction?

1273
00:44:30,247 --> 00:44:33,594
Those are two really great
examples of, all right, those are

1274
00:44:33,594 --> 00:44:34,048
great things.

1275
00:44:34,048 --> 00:44:35,352
From the realtor's perspective, we

1276
00:44:35,352 --> 00:44:35,976
read your contract.

1277
00:44:35,976 --> 00:44:37,798
So, you know, if you're buying a

1278
00:44:37,698 --> 00:44:40,760
place at Big White and you forgot
to mention GST, I'm going to tell

1279
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:41,355
you.

1280
00:44:41,355 --> 00:44:41,802
And it is.

1281
00:44:41,802 --> 00:44:42,993
Lay it on me, man.

1282
00:44:42,993 --> 00:44:44,382
But it's way easier to fix that

1283
00:44:44,382 --> 00:44:46,719
yeah before we move subject
conditions let's talk about let's

1284
00:44:46,619 --> 00:44:50,245
talk about it then until after we
move subject conditions and oh by

1285
00:44:50,345 --> 00:44:53,520
the way mr realtor you're now
paying five percent yeah we don't

1286
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,462
want that to happen so it's
helpful from the realtor's

1287
00:44:56,462 --> 00:44:59,760
perspective it's helpful from the
client's perspective send it right

1288
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:04,888
away if you don't proceed there's
no legal fees you have to pay.

1289
00:45:04,888 --> 00:45:07,530
And any kind of LTSA we just hold
your file.

1290
00:45:07,530 --> 00:45:10,098
fees, And when you buy that next
your LTSA fees get thing, billed

1291
00:45:10,098 --> 00:45:11,351
on the next file.

1292
00:45:11,351 --> 00:45:12,817
But there's no legal fees for the

1293
00:45:12,817 --> 00:45:13,244
title review.

1294
00:45:13,244 --> 00:45:14,649
And that's my policy.

1295
00:45:14,649 --> 00:45:15,620
That's the policy of my partners.

1296
00:45:15,620 --> 00:45:17,240
I know that's very, very similar

1297
00:45:17,240 --> 00:45:18,920
to other real estate specific
lawyers in town.

1298
00:45:19,220 --> 00:45:22,090
We're blessed here in the Valley
to have a number of good real

1299
00:45:22,090 --> 00:45:22,829
estate firms.

1300
00:45:22,829 --> 00:45:23,863
I have a number of great

1301
00:45:23,863 --> 00:45:24,382
colleagues and really appreciate
them.

1302
00:45:24,286 --> 00:45:24,956
So that's the right way to go.

1303
00:45:24,843 --> 00:45:25,854
The worst thing you can do is

1304
00:45:25,854 --> 00:45:27,013
remove subject conditions without
actually doing your due diligence.

1305
00:45:27,013 --> 00:45:27,303
Yeah.

1306
00:45:27,303 --> 00:45:29,435
Or I about just writing wildly

1307
00:45:29,435 --> 00:45:31,643
unconditional offers all the time,
like a few years that's what that

1308
00:45:31,643 --> 00:45:32,796
home rescission period is about,
right?

1309
00:45:32,696 --> 00:45:35,237
They were worried about that and
they were worried about people

1310
00:45:35,237 --> 00:45:36,184
getting burned by that.

1311
00:45:36,184 --> 00:45:38,359
So I was on the committee for that

1312
00:45:38,359 --> 00:45:38,507
thing.

1313
00:45:38,507 --> 00:45:40,233
And they asked me there, Peter,

1314
00:45:40,233 --> 00:45:44,240
how long should this be?
And I said, it should be seven

1315
00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:47,579
days, just like the new home one.

1316
00:45:47,479 --> 00:45:50,871
Why don't we match them up so that

1317
00:45:50,871 --> 00:45:54,142
there's some sort of rationale
here, folks, between new housing

1318
00:45:54,142 --> 00:45:56,480
and used housing?
Because how come if you're buying

1319
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:58,634
new housing, you get seven days,
but if you're buying used housing,

1320
00:45:58,634 --> 00:46:01,320
you get three days?
Yeah, it be the other way around,

1321
00:46:01,420 --> 00:46:04,176
if would make so much easier
because of the counting, the

1322
00:46:04,076 --> 00:46:05,705
weekends and the stats is so
confusing.

1323
00:46:05,705 --> 00:46:07,147
It makes no sense at all.

1324
00:46:07,247 --> 00:46:08,901
I was clearly overruled because

1325
00:46:08,901 --> 00:46:10,203
they went to three days.

1326
00:46:10,165 --> 00:46:11,735
So, you know, don't count on me to

1327
00:46:11,735 --> 00:46:14,416
change government unless you want
me to be your benevolent know,

1328
00:46:14,416 --> 00:46:16,456
that's the title of this if you
watch this.

1329
00:46:16,556 --> 00:46:18,688
So it really should be the same.

1330
00:46:18,688 --> 00:46:20,830
But in those three days, what do

1331
00:46:20,830 --> 00:46:23,026
you do?
Like, can you line up a home

1332
00:46:23,026 --> 00:46:23,311
inspector?
Maybe.

1333
00:46:23,311 --> 00:46:24,661
If the seller lets you in.

1334
00:46:24,661 --> 00:46:26,225
You know, will your financing be

1335
00:46:26,225 --> 00:46:27,576
done?
I don't know.

1336
00:46:27,576 --> 00:46:30,592
How fast are you, Taylor?
You know, do you have anything

1337
00:46:30,592 --> 00:46:32,742
better to do tonight?
know, do you have anything better

1338
00:46:32,742 --> 00:46:34,074
to do tonight?
Yeah, exactly.

1339
00:46:34,074 --> 00:46:34,921
Financing in three days.

1340
00:46:34,921 --> 00:46:37,326
Like most of the time it takes

1341
00:46:37,326 --> 00:46:38,040
days, right?
Yeah.

1342
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:41,842
So not to get into the weeks here
a bit, but there was another one

1343
00:46:41,842 --> 00:46:42,520
with a title.

1344
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,712
I've seen this happen a few times.

1345
00:46:45,712 --> 00:46:48,292
I want to ask you about it.

1346
00:46:48,292 --> 00:46:50,000
With a building scheme or

1347
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,733
something like that that says the
roof has to be cedar shingles.

1348
00:46:52,733 --> 00:46:53,356
Oh, yeah.

1349
00:46:53,356 --> 00:46:56,332
Things like 20, 30 years, 40 years

1350
00:46:56,332 --> 00:46:56,478
old.

1351
00:46:56,478 --> 00:46:57,456
Yeah, yeah.

1352
00:46:57,356 --> 00:47:00,101
Like, is that serious?
Because I've sold a few of these

1353
00:47:00,101 --> 00:47:03,263
where you look at the neighborhood
and there is like one house with

1354
00:47:03,163 --> 00:47:05,688
cedar shingles and all the rest
I've got.

1355
00:47:05,688 --> 00:47:07,679
So building schemes in British
Columbia can say a lot of

1356
00:47:07,679 --> 00:47:08,833
different things there's one in
the british properties in

1357
00:47:08,798 --> 00:47:11,609
vancouver that says that no asian
people can live there i'm dead

1358
00:47:11,609 --> 00:47:13,112
serious whoa so just because a
building scheme says something and

1359
00:47:13,074 --> 00:47:15,480
the british properties one is a
good example of this doesn't mean

1360
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:17,902
it's enforceable okay in the
interior of british columbia the

1361
00:47:17,902 --> 00:47:22,907
ones that say that they have cedar
shakes on it, and this is my gut

1362
00:47:22,907 --> 00:47:26,308
feeling, not a legal opinion,
folks, but my gut feeling is good

1363
00:47:26,408 --> 00:47:27,329
luck enforcing that one.

1364
00:47:27,329 --> 00:47:29,343
Because we clearly have fire risk

1365
00:47:29,343 --> 00:47:29,441
here.

1366
00:47:29,441 --> 00:47:29,928
Yeah.

1367
00:47:29,928 --> 00:47:31,642
I it's actually in Crawford, which
was already burned down.

1368
00:47:31,642 --> 00:47:31,906
Yeah.

1369
00:47:32,223 --> 00:47:34,285
So we clearly have fire risk here.

1370
00:47:34,285 --> 00:47:37,475
To say that that would be
enforceable would be very, very

1371
00:47:37,475 --> 00:47:37,701
difficult.

1372
00:47:37,701 --> 00:47:39,319
Now, the other thing with

1373
00:47:39,319 --> 00:47:40,766
statutory building schemes is who
enforces it?

1374
00:47:40,766 --> 00:47:44,757
The city has said to me at least
many times, we don't enforce

1375
00:47:44,657 --> 00:47:45,392
statutory building schemes.

1376
00:47:45,392 --> 00:47:47,281
And the city's not a party to the

1377
00:47:47,281 --> 00:47:47,858
statutory building scheme.

1378
00:47:47,858 --> 00:47:49,673
The other parties to the statutory

1379
00:47:49,673 --> 00:47:51,232
building scheme are your other
neighbors.

1380
00:47:51,132 --> 00:47:54,437
So whatever you do that's contrary
to the statutory building scheme

1381
00:47:54,437 --> 00:47:57,789
has to be so bad to piss your
neighbors off that they're willing

1382
00:47:57,789 --> 00:48:02,100
to throw down 40 or 50 000 to take
you to supreme court okay so what

1383
00:48:02,240 --> 00:48:04,195
is that that's probably not
parking your boat in your driveway

1384
00:48:04,195 --> 00:48:07,752
probably The though a lot of
building schemes say hey if you

1385
00:48:06,867 --> 00:48:09,838
park your boat in the driveway
that's contrary to building scheme

1386
00:48:09,838 --> 00:48:14,225
so they could you know and then i
have to tell clients this, they

1387
00:48:14,225 --> 00:48:16,840
could, if they wanted to, really
say something about it.

1388
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:20,711
But, you know, I was, I think it
was the second home I owned here.

1389
00:48:20,711 --> 00:48:22,980
I owned up in Smith Creek.

1390
00:48:22,980 --> 00:48:24,540
You know, there were boats

1391
00:48:24,540 --> 00:48:24,713
everywhere.

1392
00:48:24,713 --> 00:48:27,874
And it had, you know, you can't

1393
00:48:27,832 --> 00:48:31,450
park your boat in your driveway.

1394
00:48:31,415 --> 00:48:31,682
But summertime came, everybody had

1395
00:48:31,531 --> 00:48:31,700
a boat in their driveway.

1396
00:48:31,603 --> 00:48:31,700
But what does get enforced?

1397
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:34,392
Well, what does get enforced is
where you block somebody's view.

1398
00:48:34,392 --> 00:48:35,233
You have seriously changed
somebody's value.

1399
00:48:35,233 --> 00:48:35,564
All right.

1400
00:48:35,564 --> 00:48:37,435
Then they're taking you to Supreme

1401
00:48:37,335 --> 00:48:37,578
Court.

1402
00:48:37,578 --> 00:48:38,005
Yeah.

1403
00:48:38,005 --> 00:48:41,381
And they will affect the value
more than 40 or 50 grand.

1404
00:48:41,381 --> 00:48:42,253
And they will enforce it.

1405
00:48:42,253 --> 00:48:42,612
will Yeah.

1406
00:48:42,612 --> 00:48:44,902
Easy one to highlight is just down
the street when Aqua Development

1407
00:48:44,902 --> 00:48:46,830
was building on the neighboring
property.

1408
00:48:46,730 --> 00:48:48,720
I forget him, but you know, yeah,
he was fighting that.

1409
00:48:48,720 --> 00:48:52,097
Obviously he didn't win not to
hold your feet to the fire, but

1410
00:48:52,097 --> 00:48:54,647
what's your opinion on You know
what?

1411
00:48:54,647 --> 00:48:57,719
That is one case I have not read.

1412
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:00,070
from that So, I can't yeah, really

1413
00:49:00,070 --> 00:49:02,826
comment perspective, because I
haven't dived into that one too

1414
00:49:02,826 --> 00:49:03,048
much.

1415
00:49:03,048 --> 00:49:04,657
From a non-legal point of that

1416
00:49:04,657 --> 00:49:07,043
struck view, me as a waterfront
landowner having a little bit of

1417
00:49:07,043 --> 00:49:08,263
an imby type of feeling.

1418
00:49:08,263 --> 00:49:10,381
But I did not dive into the legal

1419
00:49:10,381 --> 00:49:10,649
rationale there.

1420
00:49:10,749 --> 00:49:12,424
But clearly, they're still it went

1421
00:49:12,324 --> 00:49:15,745
yeah okay we got to wrap this up
and get you going if you could buy

1422
00:49:15,745 --> 00:49:19,077
one property in the okanagan in
the next 12 months what would it

1423
00:49:19,077 --> 00:49:21,662
be one property just one yeah you
can buy more if you want asked us

1424
00:49:21,662 --> 00:49:24,302
if yeah i like where your head's
at there's a lot of really great

1425
00:49:24,302 --> 00:49:24,842
stuff to buy.

1426
00:49:25,515 --> 00:49:27,314
In terms of kind of Kelowna area,

1427
00:49:27,314 --> 00:49:30,457
I would be looking for, of course,
like the older housing that is

1428
00:49:30,457 --> 00:49:30,857
that RU7.

1429
00:49:30,857 --> 00:49:33,177
We can put a fourplex on it,

1430
00:49:33,177 --> 00:49:34,065
mid-rise type of stuff.

1431
00:49:34,165 --> 00:49:35,605
I think that stuff has great

1432
00:49:35,605 --> 00:49:35,842
potential here.

1433
00:49:35,842 --> 00:49:37,574
So that's still all the stuff in

1434
00:49:37,574 --> 00:49:40,802
Kelowna North, stuff around
Raymer, that stuff's going to sell

1435
00:49:40,802 --> 00:49:44,043
all day long.

1436
00:49:44,043 --> 00:49:46,542
So I really like that.

1437
00:49:46,542 --> 00:49:48,690
In terms of kind of other stuff,
well, you know, Mark Twain always

1438
00:49:48,690 --> 00:49:50,920
says buy land, they're not making
more of it, right?

1439
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:52,437
So buying land itself.

1440
00:49:52,437 --> 00:49:53,590
Especially here in Kelowna.

1441
00:49:53,690 --> 00:49:55,651
Well, developable land period that
is close to urban centers is going

1442
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:57,040
to have, especially with where
Especially here in Cologne.

1443
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:56,899
My developer clients, they're
still proceeding to purchase and

1444
00:49:56,899 --> 00:49:57,552
look for good raw land.

1445
00:49:57,552 --> 00:49:59,364
You know, development has not

1446
00:49:59,364 --> 00:50:00,680
stopped, thank God, despite some
high interest rates.

1447
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:04,501
I think it's just what we're
looking at.

1448
00:50:04,501 --> 00:50:05,780
What we have seen change is the
speed of building.

1449
00:50:05,780 --> 00:50:07,749
So the speed of incurring those
additional costs has slowed down

1450
00:50:07,703 --> 00:50:09,140
quite a bit because, of course,
with interest rates, it's like now

1451
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:12,102
we have to be really mindful of
carrying costs.

1452
00:50:12,102 --> 00:50:15,092
So that's of course, changing with
interest things a little rates,

1453
00:50:14,992 --> 00:50:15,769
it's bit.

1454
00:50:15,769 --> 00:50:17,800
like now we have to be really

1455
00:50:17,980 --> 00:50:18,684
mindful of carrying costs.

1456
00:50:18,684 --> 00:50:20,242
So that's changing things a little

1457
00:50:20,236 --> 00:50:20,366
bit.

1458
00:50:20,366 --> 00:50:21,931
But yeah, so I would buy land and

1459
00:50:21,931 --> 00:50:23,390
I would definitely be looking for
properties with house

1460
00:50:23,390 --> 00:50:23,940
densification Nice.

1461
00:50:23,940 --> 00:50:28,382
What's the best thing you've ever

1462
00:50:28,382 --> 00:50:29,125
spent any Great vacations.

1463
00:50:29,125 --> 00:50:29,745
And from my perspective, you only

1464
00:50:29,745 --> 00:50:30,674
have one trip around the sun,
right?

1465
00:50:30,674 --> 00:50:32,408
And investing in yourself has
always been a good thing so you

1466
00:50:32,408 --> 00:50:36,096
know one of the best things i ever
did was got my kind of my offshore

1467
00:50:36,096 --> 00:50:39,268
captain's license so the ability
to sail and you know spend some

1468
00:50:39,268 --> 00:50:43,384
quality time in the ocean where do
you go wonderful there's a great

1469
00:50:43,384 --> 00:50:46,322
school in bellingham actually send
one sailing so just almost next to

1470
00:50:46,322 --> 00:50:49,144
us yeah yeah no doubt How do you
give back?

1471
00:50:49,044 --> 00:50:50,262
Central Canoghan I sat on
Foundation.

1472
00:50:50,262 --> 00:50:52,480
their board of directors for
years.

1473
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:53,777
They are absolutely fantastic.

1474
00:50:53,777 --> 00:50:55,672
They can work with individual

1475
00:50:55,934 --> 00:51:00,649
donors to set up specific funds,
but they have a lot of different

1476
00:51:00,649 --> 00:51:03,291
missions in town in terms of what
they do and what they can

1477
00:51:03,291 --> 00:51:03,574
accomplish.

1478
00:51:03,574 --> 00:51:05,097
But the whole point of the

1479
00:51:05,097 --> 00:51:08,427
foundation is we hold onto the
principle of the funds and we

1480
00:51:08,427 --> 00:51:10,862
deploy the interest each and every
year because we want our influence

1481
00:51:10,862 --> 00:51:11,861
to grow.

1482
00:51:11,861 --> 00:51:14,028
And so it has been growing year

1483
00:51:14,027 --> 00:51:17,478
after year after year, and it does
lots of different things in this

1484
00:51:17,478 --> 00:51:21,578
town for a lot of different people
and really makes a real difference

1485
00:51:21,578 --> 00:51:22,474
in the Okanagan.

1486
00:51:22,474 --> 00:51:24,289
So I was proud to sit on their

1487
00:51:24,289 --> 00:51:27,933
board of directors for And when
I'm making a local donation,

1488
00:51:27,933 --> 00:51:28,082
years.

1489
00:51:28,082 --> 00:51:29,049
they are my first go-to.

1490
00:51:29,049 --> 00:51:32,940
Last question is how can Taylor
and I or our podcast or our

1491
00:51:32,940 --> 00:51:36,976
listener help you?
Well, helping me, I think from my

1492
00:51:36,976 --> 00:51:39,038
perspective, you know, if you're
looking for help, give me a call

1493
00:51:39,021 --> 00:51:39,297
for sure.

1494
00:51:39,297 --> 00:51:41,180
And I'll see if I'm the right

1495
00:51:41,180 --> 00:51:41,293
person.

1496
00:51:41,293 --> 00:51:42,643
If I'm not, I probably know the

1497
00:51:42,643 --> 00:51:44,782
right person and I can direct you
in that way.

1498
00:51:44,782 --> 00:51:48,099
if I'm lucky enough to be at the
stage of my career where I get to

1499
00:51:48,099 --> 00:51:50,780
kind of pick and choose what I do
and who I do that with.

1500
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:52,940
And I'm very grateful for that.

1501
00:51:53,260 --> 00:51:54,327
And I'm very grateful to have some

1502
00:51:54,327 --> 00:51:56,397
amazing clients, some amazing
partners, an amazing partner in

1503
00:51:56,497 --> 00:51:56,742
life.

1504
00:51:56,642 --> 00:51:58,260
And that's a good place to be.

1505
00:51:58,480 --> 00:51:58,613
Awesome.

1506
00:51:58,613 --> 00:52:00,363
Well, it's been awesome talking to

1507
00:52:00,363 --> 00:52:00,605
you.

1508
00:52:00,605 --> 00:52:01,390
It's so fun.

1509
00:52:01,390 --> 00:52:02,778
Yeah, it was fun.

1510
00:52:02,778 --> 00:52:03,080
Yeah.

1511
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:05,360
Thanks for coming on.

1512
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:05,950
Yeah.

1513
00:52:06,050 --> 00:52:06,481
Thank you.

1514
00:52:06,581 --> 00:52:06,936
Yeah.

1515
00:52:06,836 --> 00:52:09,297
Hopefully you don't send us a bill
for this.

1516
00:52:09,197 --> 00:52:11,103
You're probably the most expensive
guest we've had on.

1517
00:52:11,103 --> 00:52:11,881
So uh, one hour.

1518
00:52:11,781 --> 00:52:12,797
Yeah, Yeah, yeah, exactly.

1519
00:52:12,897 --> 00:52:13,926
This is some serious financial.

1520
00:52:13,926 --> 00:52:14,039
Yeah.

1521
00:52:14,039 --> 00:52:15,236
The contract didn't go through.

1522
00:52:15,236 --> 00:52:15,551
Yeah.

1523
00:52:15,551 --> 00:52:17,123
No, thank you so much.

1524
00:52:17,123 --> 00:52:17,962
Appreciate your time.

1525
00:52:18,062 --> 00:52:20,089
And yeah, look forward to having
you back on.