51: Thriving in Adversity as an Entrepreneur with How to Host's Amanda Van Der Lee

Transcription for: "KRE - 51 - Amanda Van Der Lee Episode.mp3" (Uploaded File) (New Transcription)

Speaker 0: Welcome to the Kelowna real estate podcast. With your host, award winning realtor, Matt Glen, and top producing mortgage broker, Taylor Atkinson, professionals in the industry, enthusiastic entrepreneurs, and successful investors. When it comes to real estate, we're all in.

Speaker 1: What would you do? We have a cleaner cleaning your house. You come home and you see a non alcoholic beer on your table while she's vacuuming. What's the next steps there to? Fire her.For what? For non alcoholic beer?

Speaker 2: Yeah. If there's if there's alcohol in it, I could understand the reason behind it. Technically, there's still alcohol in Moza. Isn't there? There's, like, a point zero four percent?

Speaker 1: Yeah. Point zero zero five, I think.

Speaker 2: I mean, they're becoming much more popular. Why? Where are you going with that? Hey.

Speaker 3: This happened to my wife when I came over. Actually, we

Speaker 1: still just think it's funny. It's super funny.

Speaker 2: Is that acceptable? Is that okay? What happened?

Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it's acceptable. I just think it's kinda weird. Rise of me of a story of whack one of my alignment days, my twenties. Put up a bunch of poles, have a lunch around the truck.One of the guys pulls out his lunch bag and opens it up and pulls out his non alcoholic beer and cracks it at lunch time. What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I guess technically it's okay. Like in Europe, they'd drink like beer and wine with lunch all the time. Let's look at this. If someone brings out and orange juice, and they add like sliver of vodka to it.So then it's that point zero five percent. It's the same thing, but you'd probably look at it being like, oh my god, you're drinking on the job.

Speaker 1: I think the vodka is more alcoholic than the non alcoholic drink.

Speaker 2: Yeah. But I'm saying if you do the ratios. Right? Anyways, Does your cleaner listen to this podcast?

Speaker 1: We'll see. We'll see if she shows up again.

Speaker 2: Oh, man.

Speaker 1: Here's God. That was so funny.

Speaker 2: Alright?

Speaker 1: Guide us through these appraisals. What's going down here, Taylor?

Speaker 2: Yeah. So I've had a couple files this month. Appraisals came in

Speaker 1: so long as

Speaker 2: he's short in a purchase. So we're actually bringing on in the appraiser in a couple weeks, so it'll be good to talk to him about this as well. But essentially, when you purchase a property, let's say the contracts for five hundred thousand, most lenders require an appraisal. Sometimes it's a full in house appraisal. Sometimes it's like a drive by automatic evaluation, etcetera.Yeah. One of them was just a straight purchase. Townhouse or a condo, I guess, in Pendozy, and the appraisal came in Waylow. So I was able to appeal it and get it to where it needed to be, but I had to show the comparables to bring it back up. The other one was a It

Speaker 1: was the mortgage broker or did you get the agent?

Speaker 2: No. I did. Yeah. I know. Multi talented.Hey. You know how argumentative I can be. And then the other one was on a new construction that's completing well in a few days and the appraisal came in way low. Like, sixty thousand dollars low, so basically ten percent low. Fortunately, you know, the client's in a good position and some capital that we can close on it and we have an exit strategy in future to kinda switch a few things around, so it's not a problem.But I spoke to the appraiser and he said he did seven of them in that same complex that are closing this month. And all of them are way under appraised value for closing. And I'm thinking, like, the only reason we could close on is because when the loan to value drops a certain percentage, you still need the amount of equity required by the lender. Right? So if you're doing twenty percent down payment, and the appraisal drops are lower than that, you have to come up with the deficit.Right? So if it's short, say another thirty, forty And in our case, sixty thousand dollars, most clients would have to come up with that sixty grand to close on it. So if there's seven other units in that property that are the same, how many clients can actually close on those? And if they can't, then what are the next steps? That is an issue right now.

Speaker 1: Oh, man. It's gonna be it's definitely gonna be an issue. But, like, real estate is priced on comparables. I feel like if there's seven people buying the same product. Don't they just compare with each other?You got seven comparables that you have that are paying the right price.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So these the contract was written up about a year and a half ago when the market was substantially higher, not substantially, but, you know, for this specific product, it was higher at the time. And the appraiser just doesn't see recent sales that support it. I don't fully agree with him in that respect. I feel they're a pretty good purchase in the area for what they are, for rental income, etcetera.But, I mean, a lot of respect appraisers, they actually have a four year degree, and then, you know, their appraiser education. So they're very well educated, and it's a hard career to get into. But, yeah, if these aren't meeting where they need to be, it's gonna be very difficult for people to close on these, or you're gonna see last minute assignments. And some potential opportunities for buyers.

Speaker 1: So I had one as a listing agent that feels through now, but appraisal came in low. And I was just like, well, just get another appraisal. Is that even possible? Like, obviously, as a listing agent, I was pushing it. But, like,

Speaker 2: it depends on the lender. Like, it has to be a arm's length type of transaction. Right? So certain lenders force us to use certain software. Some lenders allow us to pick the appraiser some lenders don't because they really want an unbiased opinion because otherwise for sure, real estate agents mortgage brokers clients, they could kind of manipulate it and say, well, we need an extra twenty grand for the appraisal to make this work.But yeah. So essentially, if you order the appraisal and you're sending it to the lender, which doesn't happen that often, you could review it, not send it, and order another one. But generally, how it happens is that appraiser sends it directly to the owner

Speaker 1: by the lender

Speaker 2: and the lender communicates back to you, you can then appeal it and show different comparables to try and get it where it needs to be. But you're not gonna win that argument every time.

Speaker 1: Yeah. The buyer has to come up with more money. I know this seller has to drop the price to come up in the middle or some

Speaker 2: Yeah. So basically, that's why we're so stressed about making sure what we call as broker complete before you remove subjects. And usually the last piece to that puzzle is getting the appraisal done, generally because we submit to a lender, we get a commitment letter from a lender, and then they can tell us who their approved appraisers are, and then we can choose the appraisal where most people think, well, why don't I just order it right away? It's because you're really not allowed to do that. We could, but then you have to pay for a letter of transmittal and etcetera.It's kind of a weird process. So that comes in a little bit later. So when people wanna remove subjects, early without the appraisal being satisfied. In today's market, it's a really bad idea because if it comes in ten percent short, you gotta have the backup plan, how to close on

Speaker 1: that video.

Speaker 2: So you guys were able to get yours done?

Speaker 1: Yeah. So we came down a little bit Not very much. And they just came up with the extra

Speaker 2: extra cash. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah. With the extra cash that we paid for the difference. Like, it wasn't, like, sixty grand difference. I think it was, like, fifteen or something like that. But it was a enough to play with the approval.So we got it done, but I can just see in the future this happening more, especially with the presales you were just talking about. Like, There's been a lot of condos being built in Kelowna right now, and I feel like a lot of them are not gonna appraise out just because there's so many, the short term rental thing that we're gonna talk about today. I feel like there's going to be an issue.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So good segue. Today, our guest was Amanda Van Nuuly from how to host. Yeah. Huge huge company in Kelona surrounding areas.She manages short term rentals. She has a cleaning company, a design company for interior decoration. She's very involved in that scene, so has been involved in, you know, speaking with the city. I think she said she's set up over a hundred units now on return rental platforms. So, yeah, great individual to speak to about that.And Yeah. That is kind of one of the risks right now is a lot of condos are being built and full of those condos are purchased for short term rentals. And when they're gonna close in a year or two from now, what happens to that market if the appraisals don't come in where they need to be or people walk away from the contractor, developers Sue or, you know, if you have an existing Airbnb that you're looking at selling, but we have another couple thousand units that are coming on the market. How does that look? So it's a bit of a dark road to walk down, but Yeah.

Speaker 1: It's mostly the condo market. Right? The condo market is gonna be the most affected here. Almost the only market that's gonna be affected by the structure rental. Like the other ones, obviously, the single family houses too, but it's not gonna have the same effect.Yeah. Like, we're building the most condos and the condos affecting it to kinda double whammy here with the short term rental. So it's Yeah.

Speaker 2: I know it's funny to put on my broker hat for a second, talking about the appraisals with it. There weren't a lot of lenders that would lend to short term rental units. Okay? So there was, like, specifically in Kelowna, you have to really know the buildings and who will lend to it. Yep.It was funny because, like, anytime you have a call with a client who has an accepted offer on a certain property that's Airbnb allowable in the specific strata bylaws. Be like, okay, we gotta do this strategy because only this lender will look at it because it's Airbnb allowable. People would be like, that's insane. Like, I make more money. It's like, what is the risk to the lender?And lenders would always just kinda high level there's more of a risk to it. We don't like short term rentals. We're staying away from it. Well, they were right. Like, pretty mind boggling with, like so now I don't know if we're gonna be able to finance those with every lender because this legislation has been passed or that specific lender is gonna now be holding properties that you know, they're not happy with because they're probably decreasing in value.So Also,

Speaker 1: the short term rentals are kinda new like I was googling this morning and Airbnb has been operating in Canada since two thousand and nine. Yeah. So, like, that's not that Yeah. Yeah. Fifteen years.You know, like, it's very fresh. So, like, that's not even one mortgage amortization. Right? So, like, it makes sense for the lenders to not lend on that. Yeah.You know? So, like, yeah. You're right. They're right.

Speaker 3: Okay. Well, anyways, it was an awesome show.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I love having Amanda on. Feel free to reach out, follow her on TikTok. Apparently, lots of good content on there. Maybe help her out.Get on the pick up and give her some comments.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. It was an awesome conversation. I think she got the right mindset. She doing the right things She's gonna be okay.

Speaker 2: Yeah. She's pretty positive. And then, honestly, if you're running a business like that with so many moving parts, I feel like you could transition into any kind of business and be successful at it.

Speaker 1: So Yeah. Exactly. She's got a few things going on. Obviously, she knows what she's doing. She'll be a good person to talk to.

Speaker 2: Okay. Welcome to the show Amanda from how to host. How are you doing today?

Speaker 4: Hi. I am good. How are you guys?

Speaker 2: Doing very well. Thanks. Good.

Speaker 3: Hey.

Speaker 1: Yeah. I see I see you all over the place and it's nice to have you on the show. Thanks for coming. Yeah.

Speaker 3: All over the place. Yeah. Well, that's good, I guess.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Like physically or where do you see here, Matt?

Speaker 4: I was wondering the same

Speaker 1: thing. Yeah. Well, physically sometimes, yes, around corona, but also, like, around, obviously, your business has been impacted greatly by all these new things going down with the short term rentals. So, yeah, yeah, I've been seeing you out there.

Speaker 4: Well, it's a content. Yes.

Speaker 2: We like to start our show with just what's your perfect Friday look like? Leading into the weekend, how are you productive at work, and then how do you have some fun?

Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. My perfect Friday. Fridays are always very very busy for us. It's probably one of our busiest days because it's the check-in day before the weekend.So just wake up early, clear head, lots of coffee. Definitely just getting through the schedule and making sure all of our ins and outs are streamlined, inspections are done, you know, all of our special requests and get the work day done, which never really seems to finish. But on a Friday night, I guess, like, to go for a walk or a hike or go get a glass of wine with a friend. I'm pretty chill. I don't go out a whole lot.I keep to myself.

Speaker 1: Nice. Nice.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you take the weekends off? Because I would imagine in your business, like, that's the busy time, is it? Or

Speaker 4: Oh, yeah. There's no time off. Off. It's a seven day a week gig, but the weekends are ruthless. Actually, Saturdays are like, that's when everyone's checked in and things are more efflowing.

Speaker 1: Yep.

Speaker 4: Sunday's are manic because Sunday checkout days. So, no, the weekends are nuts.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I can imagine.

Speaker 2: Tell us a little bit about your business then. I mean, I'm just assuming most people know you've like Matt said, you're all over the place. But, yeah, give us kind of the elevator pitch on what service you provide.

Speaker 4: Yeah. So we've got a few different things going on. So how to host is the primary company that started everything, and we're full service, luxury, and niche vacation rental management. We look after absolutely everything on behalf of our owners. We really try and step in as if we own the property, we maintain it, manage it, deal with all the guests, the finances, check ins, check outs, you name it.On the outside of that, I've developed how to style, which is our design company. So we were doing designs in house under how to host initially but they're two incredibly different beasts, particularly with the accounting. Obviously, the work that's done as well. So we split that out, and then we've bought a full service cleaning company that we have as well sparkling stays. And we utilize sparkling stays with all of our How to Host properties, and we're actually selling that service to other property managed companies at this time.

Speaker 1: Well, also, is your cleaning business just for, like, STRs? Or is it for and a regular person hire you? Or

Speaker 4: Yeah. It started geared very much towards short term rentals. Yeah. In the slow season right now, we've been taking other more commercial work. We do a lot of after movie company cleanups, that kind of stuff.Just really, it's been all word-of-mouth in people that reach out to us, some residential move ins and move outs, which we try and stay away from, but primarily focusing particularly in the high season on the short term rental turnover they'll keep us busy enough.

Speaker 1: Nice. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2: How many employees do you have? Or contractors are like how many people are on the brand team?

Speaker 4: Between all three companies.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 4: I mean, because we all work together. There's probably about fifteen staff. Some were full time than others and also how to host a slow right now because it's seasonal, so come high season. We'll have heavier operations and whatnot. But more so the cleaners and the cleaners do a lot of work for me for how to host as well.Yeah. So we kinda share them between but, yeah, I'd say about fifteen or so. Lots of contractors, contracted designers, contracted virtual assistants, contracted maintenance. That's a whole other realm of things. So

Speaker 2: Yeah. Cool. Yeah. That's a lot of personnel, your business, them, like, everyone's probably pretty affected by the legislation changes that are essentially solidified for this May. Can you give us like a real brief recap?We've spoken about this a couple times on the show, but kind of essentially what the province and city, what direction we're going with it now?

Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely. So Kohl's notes version, I mean, primary use short term rentals, they are going to be no longer

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 4: And so all of our condos downtown Brooklyn, anything on Saint Paul's Sunset, that were used primarily as a short term rental. So something like this is where an owner might use it two, three weeks of the year, and then they offset cost of the property by short from renting it, those are going to be nonexistent anymore. So also for secondary use, properties. So if you own a home and you rent it out, you live in it primarily and then you wanna rent it out and make some cash off of it when you're say traveling, there's gonna be no new licenses for that. They will grandfather licenses that are current so long as they can get through the gates of the provincial legislation, which we don't really know what that registration looks like yet.Yeah. That's still a really gray area, unfortunately. So, you know, I'm just wondering what they're gonna put in front of us with that, what complications will come with that. Yeah. And we are still awaiting information on the actual buildings that the city will try and apply to have an exemption for if they choose to do that whatsoever.So I've been getting a lot of mixed messages that, you know, there's a possibility that properties that are more resort style and they have pools, these properties might be safe, and then I'm also hearing that no, nothing's safe. So it's very gray still, and I was hoping to get a lot more information than I did on the last council meeting, but we're really still kind of stuck in the middle of all of this, not really knowing how to direct our clients.

Speaker 1: Yeah. So when the provisional came down, obviously, that was a big hit, but Were you expecting what the city did after? Or, like, did that come out of nowhere?

Speaker 4: No. No. I wasn't.

Speaker 1: It wasn't either.

Speaker 4: Yeah. From the conversations that I'd had, I thought that provincial implications were strong enough that Yeah.

Speaker 3: You know Yeah.

Speaker 4: We can take that brunt first and see how that works. And then if it's not working in the city, decides that they wanna strengthen the legislation. Sure. But right off the bat, no. I did not think that they were gonna go and make it an even worse situation for us.

Speaker 1: I didn't think so either. You know, like, when they had that town hall meeting that Taylor and Emily went to. You guys were talking to the city of making the pushback and the province make less rules. And then they come down and add more on top. That honestly shock me, especially after when we talked to Ryan on our podcast.

Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2: I feel a little betrayed.

Speaker 1: Honest. He did not mention that.

Speaker 3: Oh, like Ryan was, like, fairly I

Speaker 2: don't wanna say optimistic, but he was like, you know, like, there's some dynamic flexibility here. We're gonna approach it, like, collectively, and be realistic about it. And then Yeah, Amanda, you're at the hearing as well. Like I saw you there, and it was a fairly positive vibe I got out of it. Like, the majority of the population that was there were speaking pro short term rentals, a lot of the council.They were like, yeah, let's defer this until we have a better idea. And then, yeah, I'd feel a little caught off guard from it.

Speaker 4: Yeah. It was really strange for me. I mean, I just can't imagine I own a home. I leave for Europe for a month. I can't rent it out on Airbnb.I can't even get a life support to try and make a little bit of extra cash on the side. It just it seems so limiting. I don't wanna use the word unfair because I kind of think it's cliche, but it's not fair and it seems really wrong to me. But, yeah, I was honestly really shocked myself.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, when you think about the city, proving all these permits for Brooklyn and Ocala and, like, other ones too where it's, like, stricter windows allowed. And they just say, bear in mind, take care of all that back. It's just kind of like a total one eighty on the policy Yeah.

Speaker 3: Is now.

Speaker 2: Yeah. With the exemptions, Amanda, like, we need to see three percent vacancy before they go through that exemption process? Or is it, like, they're still applying for it and there may be something granted within certain buildings?

Speaker 4: So the vacancy rate, the three percent, that would be as far as having the city be exempt. So then the city can create its own rules within the municipality. Right? They'd be exempt from the provincial legislation. And to be able to get to that, we'd have to have that three percent vacancy rate for two years, then we can apply and Who knows how long that process is?The exemptions that I'm talking about, I don't even know if they'd be called an exemption per se, but it's the city coming to the province saying, I hey, we have played out soul. It's been here for x amount of years. It's a resort style community. This is all it's ever been here for or Corona Beach in West Kelowna. We still need to have these because this is primary use as a hotel resort.So that's what we're waiting to get the information on.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 1: And then places like Aqua that are sold as short term rental, like so there's gonna be a lot of people without obviously, I'm not gonna really use it as what they bought it for. But then when you have a lot of these, it could flood the market, drop down the price of the condos just talking to my office yesterday, like, what happens? If twenty percent of these people, their financing doesn't get approved because their units don't appraise. So

Speaker 4: Well, exactly. The mortgage rates, they're gonna lose their deposit if they walk away when they

Speaker 1: More than the deposit. Like, you could get sued for damages.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah. From the disclosure, for sure. Just wanna say with the three percent, like, I don't think we've seen three percent vacancy since two thousand twelve. So we are, like, just bunch of miles and miles away from And

Speaker 1: even in two thousand and twelve, I don't think it was for two years. No. So I don't think that it would even work. Yeah.

Speaker 2: So there was a really good article from The Times, and it was about Victoria. So I kinda took the numbers from there. Reached out to yourself and a few other people and kind of did a little bit of high level data research. So roughly, like, we have about four times as many units than Victoria does within Kelowna.

Speaker 1: We had Kelowna to us, like short term rental units or Yeah. Total unit

Speaker 2: short term rental units. So I just took that as the multiple fire. So we've got about I think it's about twenty four hundred more or less units. And they're essentially gonna bring that down, say, four hundred. And they're not gonna give any new business license so we're only gonna really see that number decline.But by using those numbers and multiplying pretty much everything five four, and then it's even more conservative. So I use, like, eighty million dollars of revenue for Kelowna's tourism revenue. However, it says here in a statement Kolona's two billion dollar visitor economy attracts nearly two million visitors annually who in turn generate thirteen thousand jobs two zero four million dollars in tax revenue and four forty three million dollars in direct spending at local businesses. So anyways, I used eighty million for the revenue that we're injecting into the corona economy for Airbnb. It's obviously far greater than that.But basically, if you use those numbers to put two thousand units back on the market, so we've got twenty four hundred units now, bringing it down to say four hundred. People are either gonna sell their property or keep it as a secondary home or put a long term tenant on it over the next ten years, cost to the city that'll be eight hundred and thirty one million dollars. So if you divide that by the two thousand units over the ten years, is four hundred and fifteen thousand dollars per unit. It's basically costing the city four hundred and fifteen thousand dollars. To put either, you know, a rental property or force somebody to sell.So in Victoria, it was actually like seven hundred and seventy thousand dollars a unit. It's costing the city to put them back on the market. My question is, and I guess, this kinda goes to Matt Moore as, like, For four hundred and fifteen thousand dollars, could the city not like take that revenue and put it to use to build units? Like, they could easily build affordable housing four hundred and fifteen thousand dollars. To me, it doesn't seem like it's a solution.It's just moving money from one hand to the next hand. It's like it's not providing affordable housing?

Speaker 1: Well, I think bottom line, we need to build more housing. I don't think that's even controversial

Speaker 2: at all.

Speaker 1: And we need to build a lot more housing. But, like, you're saying four hundred and fifteen thousand cost of city or, you mean, cost the city's economy.

Speaker 2: Cost the city's economy. So per unit. So it's costing the city's economy eight hundred and thirty million dollars over the next ten years.

Speaker 1: Well Don't you think they could

Speaker 2: build the absolute ton with that? Like, obviously, that gets split up between, you know, it goes into business owners' pockets and then, like, local rest strants and stuff, but like the money's being injected into the economy that way. Now that's not to say, I guess, the argument would be while now people can start staying at hotels more or finding an alternative state, but we just don't have the capacity for that. But, yeah, it was a super interesting article, so I just kind of like digested it a bit and threw those numbers kind of into the corona market and doesn't really achieve what they're trying to achieve for affordable housing.

Speaker 4: Have you sent that to the city?

Speaker 2: No. No. I was just drafting it up. He was

Speaker 1: like, I wanna make sure you guys understand it first. Yep.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And I can tell the math size. It's like, shut up. Too many numbers.

Speaker 1: Honestly, it's a bit confusing and Also, like, if I go to coffee shop, it's been five dollars. City doesn't get five dollars. What do they get on that?

Speaker 2: Totally.

Speaker 1: Whatever property taxes that coffee shop plays?

Speaker 2: I mean, looking at it from this article that was written for Victoria.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Obviously, I mean, there's a million different ways you could slice this. And I think what like McGill University came out with the first initiative to basically, like, provide ammunition to stop short term rentals. Like, that's where it kinda drives from. So you could come up with like any data you want. This was just me being unbiased by finding an article from The Times.I mean, to make it more relatable is essentially, you have fifteen employees, you have a handful of properties, you have like, generating a lot of income, paying taxes, and essentially the city's like taking that away from you. I guess, how are you pivoting? Like, where are you going next?

Speaker 4: Yeah. Great question. It's so funny. I kind of did the opposite. Everybody went quiet and they're trying to minimize and downsize.And I put out the biggest marketing campaign that I've done just to try and see what I could catch in other regions. Yeah. I was like, you know what? This is my opportunity to just go for it. We did wound up making a few really great connections and working on some deals right now that could, god, even triple the company if it works out.So I can't really talk about it quite yet, but you know the idea behind it is I was, like, in the worst times, I've gotta really just put my best foot forward and focus on marketing to the most broad level that I've ever done, and I think that we could possibly achieve those goals and just focusing on exempt land, indigenous land, and Alpine communities, possibly looking at going into the U. S. Or other provinces in Canada. I think that I just have to relinquish control as far as having to be there personally because I've been very always on-site, on hand, and always here.

Speaker 1: Yeah. And

Speaker 4: you don't necessarily have to run a management company like that. There are a lot of companies in the world that manage in other parts of the world and it's hands free and they utilize computers and communication systems to do it. And you just have to have the proper SOPs and policies and whatnot. To maintain the quality. So I think that's the shift I'm taking.Maybe more resort style work like we've really got with the design, the cleaning, and the management. We can kind of encompass that hotel like structure.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 4: So that's a service almost as one service that I could sell potentially, and we are looking at doing that as well. So I've got a few things happening. I'm not sure exactly which path is gonna be the one we walked down, but I'm not scared. I can tell you that.

Speaker 1: Honestly, that is the best way to look at it. Like, it's kind of happened. Not really anything you can do about it. Right? So you just adapt and overcome Right?I feel like that's kinda it's really the only option at this point. Obviously, you still wanna, like

Speaker 4: Attocate?

Speaker 1: Yeah. Advocate. Yeah. You wanna advocate or what you want, but, like, at same time, life goes on. You have to adapt and go on.

Speaker 4: You know, I have been looking at it as this kind of bitter sweet thing as well because when it all first happened, it happened right after the fire. So we just got nailed this year with all things in this industry. A really difficult industry to stay afloat on. You know, it's very seasonal. We're very subject to weather and anything with the economy.So it's a tough business to run, but Yeah. I think just keeping an open mind and staying positive and hoping that this will actually maybe strengthen the market a little bit in the sense that what's left is gonna be a lot more and restructuring so that maybe we work a little bit less and we're making more money on properties that we're managing.

Speaker 2: It was getting saturated. Like the profit margins were getting thin. That was partly due to interest rates going up and, you know, the cost of these units for transactions. So think it was about to self regulate anyways.

Speaker 4: Yeah. It's interesting that you say that, and I do wish that there was maybe a different approach to all of this. Like, if the city was properly policing. What's going on? Like, we had almost half of the rentals on the market were illegal.So if you take that away, would this have looked like, you know, what would the business have looked like entirely? And would we see that these short term rentals are actually affecting the housing market it? Or are they not really? Like, if you take those fifty percent away, is a dent gonna be created? Or will it not?So that's an interesting piece to this all as well.

Speaker 1: Yeah. I thought a good piece in the legislation was they said you had to have the business license posted on the Airbnb listing. That was a pretty good idea.

Speaker 4: You know, I think probably we already have to have the business license number in the listing, but people just don't. And I think what they're gonna do is make it mandatory. So in cities like Vancouver, you actually can't even get past the point of clicking the list button Yeah. Without putting the license number in and the Airbnb communicates with the city and they can see that license and then they approve the listing.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 4: So that's what we're gonna be more looking at in the future.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. So do you know there's, like, hotel tax that's associated with the Airbnb platform. Right?

Speaker 1: That Yeah.

Speaker 2: Supposed to then go to the city. To be, like, deployed for tourism use or maybe just general income for the city to use. So again, back to this report for Victoria. I think they were getting about five hundred thousand dollars from that, from the booking platform. So, Kelowna is gonna be getting more than that.But A lot of that money is like a Airbnb fees are gonna go like to Airbnb. So I've said this before, like, why would the city not create its own like online booking app if they're gonna generate that much income from it and use the income, you know, specifically for the community then.

Speaker 4: Great idea. I mean, that would be amazing if they could figure out the technology to do it. I guess a private booking site would be simple. But again, how do you force people to do that. How do you say you can't use Airbnb or VRBO?You have to use our cities booking platform.

Speaker 2: Well, I mean, they're you guys are more similar with mail.

Speaker 4: I guess. I'm really not, I guess. Wow. I guess.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Leave it with Matt and I. We're pretty texted.

Speaker 4: There you go. You guys are close to the city. You're, like, flat.

Speaker 1: Next time we have Ryan on, we won't let him leave until the degrees. So, like, what about people that have bookings this summer? Like, are they canceled? Are they not canceled? Are they what do they do right now?Like, what happens?

Speaker 4: Yeah. Great question. And also such a gray area, you know, I didn't know what was right, what's wrong, because still we're sitting in this space where our sunset list saying is gonna be or okay is played also gonna be okay

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 4: Taking reservations and I did stop. I said, okay, we need to block the calendars until this is figured out. And the reason behind that is not with Airbnb, but with private booking platforms, the Airbnb, we do pay processing fees, and the processing fees are about three percent sometimes four percent. And whether that stay cancels or doesn't, we lose that. Right?So when it comes to having sixty, seventy listings, and we have x amount of reservations through VRBO. It's gonna be a huge loss to my company to be taking those reservations. It impacts the guests too. It's like they think they got this reservation and, you know, then you cancel on them. So it's tough though because I'd also love to be able to take the reservations hoping that there will be a positive spin on all of this, but we just don't know.I don't know what writer was wrong in that situation.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I guess, options for people that currently own an Airbnb unit. They either put it back on the long term market or they sell it.

Speaker 4: Well, because everyone's gonna be listing at the same time, prices are gonna go down as far as sales go. Variable rate mortgages are high. The rent prices are gonna drop. So are people gonna be able to cover their expenses? You know, you're not gonna cash flow?I can tell you that for sure, but No. Is it maybe holding on to the property until things level out? I see another option would be mid term rentals. So right now, our mid term rentals are thirty day stays or more, but we also still have this gray area with the city as to whether they're going to adopt the ninety day threshold for mid term rentals or anything under ninety days being considered a short term rental or if they'll stay with thirty. Because if it goes to ninety days, the mid term rental market is also crushed.

Speaker 2: Is there a point like anything over thirty days. Like, if somebody stays forty days, it's considered short term. Like, what are they trying to achieve by that? Because they could just sign a BC tenancy agreement, and then they could believe. Right?Like, there's no protection to the landlord for somebody that wants to come for forty or fifty days. No.

Speaker 4: True. Yeah. Exactly. I think it's just more they're really trying to protect the long term rental housing market. So even the thirty day stays they don't want because the three month stays could potentially help somebody out.For me, that part of it, I don't think that there's any rhyme or reason to be making that change. I think that they need to look at corporate travelers, people staying in hospitals, like, those thirty day stays are pretty popular and they're needed. So like, look at what happened with the fires? They're gonna have fires. It's gonna get worse and worse every single year.Where are all these people gonna stay?

Speaker 1: Taylor source.

Speaker 3: Yeah. But everything else?

Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, no, it's super valid point. I actually I know someone that is still evacuated from her house. And she's staying in the Airbnb. It's like Right.How was the remediation not complete yet? It's like so then it goes, well, come May. She goes back to a hotel. Like, that's just insane.

Speaker 4: Yeah. There's just so many things. I think they thought of really one angle of all of this and didn't consider this whole other side to it, you know. And obviously, we'll see the effects of that and it just time will tell and the city will have to or the province and the city we'll have to adjust as they feel as needed, I guess. Yeah.

Speaker 1: So, Ananda, has Airbnb said anything about this NBC? Do you know?

Speaker 4: Oh, yeah. Yeah. They hold meetings. So we actually have a specific rep that Yeah. Most most with companies, the size of mine would have a particular rep that they deal with.And Okay. There's four meetings and all that sort of stuff. But, I mean, we've sent so many letters and so many statements and there's been so many meetings that it almost feels exhausted to a point where it's just nothing's really going anywhere. The decision's final, and I don't really think they're looking at much outside of the decision being final.

Speaker 1: What about is there other jurisdictions where this has happened?

Speaker 4: Yeah. Quebec had some pretty crazy legislation issues. And a fifty thousand dollar fine, I think, implemented if you get caught operating in a non licensed rental. New York, I think it was the catalyst. That's where it all started.

Speaker 1: Oh, really?

Speaker 4: Yeah. New York was big. They shut them all down there. But it's almost just having this kind of fact where it's just kind of flowing through all jurisdictions right now and cities and municipalities because it has become a problem, I guess, to an extent that there's maybe too many of these rentals and they need to be more strict, but maybe this strict just wasn't the best thing to do.

Speaker 1: Like, I'm surprised that Airbnb, as a company, isn't out, like, doing a PR campaign because I feel like this is a belief that's just not gonna stop. I was watching the football game on the weekend, and there saw, like, twenty commercials for VRBO. And the commercial is VRBO. Stay here. The owners are never home.It's basically their slogan. Like, that hasn't been legal in a long time. You know? So, like, it's kind of, like, with the program, at least for here. Right?So I don't know. I just feel like we should be hearing from You know, it's their business.

Speaker 4: Yeah. I think that they do. I definitely think that they advocate and understand what you're saying. It is a little bit quiet. I don't know what they're doing behind the scenes.I also don't really know that there's much that they can do. They're not well liked by government, you know. It just is what it is at this point. And I do think it's just gonna get worse and worse species really piloted this move, and I think it's gonna continue through provinces as time goes by.

Speaker 1: Well, this is exactly what I'm saying. So, like, I saw this poll. I can't remember where it was. So, like, it's not entirely fake news, but I wouldn't say it's real. But it's like it was something like eighty percent of B.C. People. Like this legislation. Something crazy like that. Over seventy.And I just feel like if other governments, regardless left or right or anything, see that many people approve of it. It's just gonna go, BC Alberta, Saskatchewan. Just gonna go to all of them. Yeah. I feel like Airbnb should be having a commercial, like, PR campaign saying, like, listen, these are the good things we do for our community.Where do you stay at the hospital? What do you do if you wanna visit a place and you don't wanna stay in the hotel? Like, Yeah. But, you know, like, they should be out there. Try to put a better face on this because I just it's gonna sprint.

Speaker 4: Well, it's all surprising was that response. I mean, I guess that in the realm of people that I communicate with and entrepreneurs and realtors and and more very supportive and pro of this industry and Yeah. Realized that there was such a hate on it. I think I was actually really blind, decided when all of that went down, I was like, what is who are these people? Where did they come crop.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 3: I think you actually put a post

Speaker 2: Instagram or TikTok or something.

Speaker 4: TikTok. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Did you just not get destroyed over it? Like, I'm sorry to bring this up if it was like,

Speaker 4: No. I was gonna bring it up. First of all okay. So what happened is I did an interview with Kelowna now. Kelowna now then put it on TikTok And I had no idea what was going on.And I had this guy in my Instagram DMs. He's like, are you okay? I was like, yeah, I'm good. Why?

Speaker 1: It was so bad.

Speaker 4: We picked that TikTok post. I was like, what TikTok post? I haven't seen a TikTok post. I logged in to TikTok. There was over sixteen thousand comments, so derogatory, terrible, like First of all, people thought that I owned all of

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: I agree. I saw that too. Yeah.

Speaker 4: Was like, we'll be pretty sweet if I did, but no, I don't. The struggling entrepreneur just have a three and a half year old company trying to get by the manager, all the property manager. I don't own them. But the legs that people went to, like, they would capture the video and then they would mock me and ask me if my well, they'd say, like, my hair was a mop and my bokeh boxes for the whole. And you think with all the money I make, I'd have better faith lives than I was like, wow.Yep. Tigua, the greatest soul. But, yeah, it was they exist. Those people do not like Airbnb apparently, and they did not like my company or myself.

Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, like, I was talking to some realtors, and I we are in a bubble. Like, in real estate land, this is like hell on earth. Right? This sort of mental thing, but with the rest of the people, I think it's not like that.I had a plumber at my house, fixing my fireplace. I told him I was a realtor. He said, oh, yeah. These Airbnb are canceled. He said, I'll finally be able to buy a house.That is interesting. And then I asked my barber. And he's like, oh, yeah. This is awesome. I'll finally be able to buy a house.And like I started realizing that everybody that's not in the industry directly.

Speaker 4: Mhmm.

Speaker 1: It's a different kind of way to look at it. Right?

Speaker 2: So Matt just starts handing out his business card. He's like, yeah. Definitely, I agree with you. Yeah. Everybody sucks.There's Let's buy hell. I'm not

Speaker 1: real or disagree. I'm just saying it's just that all the way. I know.

Speaker 2: But, like, we're all just speculating at this point. Like, have they done a sense of, like, where do they get these stats from?

Speaker 1: Is there a vote on it?

Speaker 2: Are they looking at TikTok and being like, oh, yeah. There's sixteen thousand bad comments. Yeah. Seventy percent of the population doesn't like this.

Speaker 4: I guess the votes that come in, like, through Kastanet or whatever, people that are happier, sad. I mean, I got people calling my phone, my phones listed online. They were sending me hate emails Uh-huh. And I'm smiling. So I take it with a grain of salt.Like, it's a lot of

Speaker 3: that too. But wow, it's a little bit like,

Speaker 4: there's this whole other side to people we're always very biased to, like, what is beneficial to us. Yeah. Right? So, of course, I wanna save my company and help my team and my staff and other people think that by eliminating companies like mine, they're gonna be able to get into the real estate market, which I don't think is correct, to any extent. But, you know, we always take whichever side is to our benefit.Right?

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4: Yeah. Thanks. So yeah.

Speaker 1: I think so. Everyone's saying, well, it's gonna take off rentals off the market. It's gonna take rentals off the market. But I think the idea is the government. They put in policies like this.They drop the price even if it's a little bit. And then more renters are no longer renters. They get into the housing market and then they're homeowners. So you get basically more homeowners is the idea. I don't think that's gonna have, like, a major effect.I don't think all of a sudden, like, thirty percent more people are gonna buy houses, I think, is probably three percent or two percent more people who buy a house. But I think that's the idea.

Speaker 4: I know, but I mean, then the values are gonna go down on these properties. So people of the law have you're gonna lose money. So it's like you're taking from Peter to all or whatever that scenario is. And it's like, you know, what I said and one of the interviews that I did is, like, these are supposed to be well balanced decisions for the communities, not how to take from this person and give to this person because that's not balanced. That's not helping this person here if you're helping this person here.It's tough. I mean, I've worked sixteen hour days for years and years, you know. I think that certain people are in a position because of the things that they've done and how hard they've worked. And it's tough out there. I get it.

Speaker 2: No. I do wanna highlight something there. Like, that's the whole frustration I have is, like, they're train a narrative that, like, oh, we're taking it from this super wealthy person, like, oh, Amanda has twenty four hundred units in Kelowna and she's super wealthy. And we're gonna break it down and spread it out between, like, you know, people that are in more need. But it's really most people that have an Airbnb have one unit, maybe.Or it's their basement suite or something. It's not like this massive corporation, you know, the Shell Corp owns a hundred units. And they're, like, making millions of this. So, I mean, to take it to your point, like, your local from Kelowna, you started this company a few years ago. How did you come upon, like, finding this company?Like, you basically you were a mortgage broker. Right? And you had to kinda hustle a bit, and that's where it started from?

Speaker 4: Yeah. So it's actually it was a total fluke. I was an insurance broker for eleven years. I was turning thirty. I was like, I cannot do the same job from nine teen into my thirties, so I got bored with the license.

Speaker 1: Mhmm.

Speaker 4: I just bought, you know, fast forward ten years, it'll be forty, then fifty, and I've never done anything else. Moors Kroger's license renovated the basement suite of my house, rented out the top two floors on Airbnb after I redesigned it. When I was living in the basement suite there, Airbnb contact to me, they made it the first plus listing in the area. Airbnb plus doesn't exist anymore, but it's like the luxury.

Speaker 1: Yeah. It

Speaker 4: was before luxury homes were even on the market with Airbnb. And I just started thinking, like, what if I could design properties and manage them for a living? And, yeah, fast forward, I don't know how many setups. I think we've listed over a hundred homes in the last three and a half years. And it all started from my one property.That's it. And it was just a fluke. It was like it took off and I had my idea, and I put it out to the world, and here we go.

Speaker 2: That's amazing. But, I mean, it's just a good feel. Look, like, there's a ton of risk and energy and investment. Like, I think that's the story that needs to be highlighted is, like, you know, people like yourself and us who are entrepreneurs and ambitious and creative like you trying to do something out of the box. You're trying to help others.And yeah, you should be rewarded for taking that risk. But unfortunately, this one's kind of slap in the face to a lot of us. So

Speaker 4: Yeah. To investors and just touch on your last point about people that this is affecting people that have one Airbnb. You know, they don't have a ton of them. And they put everything that they had into being able to buy that Airbnb. You know?And they're struggling to cash flow with that Airbnb, with the way the market is right now and the interest rates. So it's not like they're taking from wealthy people. That's not who this is impacting at all. It's very interesting to me. Just the perspective, I should say, on all of this

Speaker 1: Also, now when you go to sell it, like, we go in against twenty four hundred other ones or two thousand. Right? So it's like it's a Yeah. Yeah. It's an interest thing.

Speaker 2: There's an opportunity for you there, Matt. You'd market yourself as the discount Airbnb resale. I don't know what you're gonna call yourself, but Yeah. Okay. Well, we know you're swamped with a bunch of different things, so we're gonna jump into our kind of final questions for you.This is kind of a funny one, but if you could buy a property in the Okanagan in the next twelve months, what would it be?

Speaker 1: I just got an Airbnb ticket.

Speaker 4: Oh my god. No. Okay. I would actually buy up at an alpine community. I buy up at big white, not because I think I'm gonna make a ton of money off of it, but because I wanna build our business up there and I'd like to have a place up there to utilize and for my staff to utilize while we're up there, but also be able to take the opportunity to bring some cash in maybe one week a month or something to offset the cost.That is where I would invest. And I've always wanted up in the woods and the snow. So it's kind of like a work pleasure personal purchases, what I would be gearing towards.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I'll solve that.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. That's the best thing you've ever spent a little bit of money on or a lot of bit of money.

Speaker 4: Real estate.

Speaker 1: Yes. I

Speaker 4: see. Yeah. No. Real estate. Yeah.There's not even a close second to that. I bought two houses by the time I was twenty five

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 4: Sold them at a really great time, and it gave me the money to buy the house that I have now, which was the catalyst to my whole business. So Yeah. That would have been my best purchase for sure.

Speaker 1: Yeah. That's awesome. Even now I I think we need to linger on this point for a minute. Even now with like, condos are for sure gonna take a hit in the next twelve months, I'd say. In the long term, I think you're still good to buy it up.The long term, I mean, three to five years, and obviously pass that. But I think you're still good in the long term for the value of those places, especially in Kelowna. We're a nice place when people wanna come here. They might not have anywhere to stay when they get here. Still wanna come.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2: What's your favorite charity? Or how do you give back?

Speaker 4: Yeah. So the Okanagan humane society, we actually held a comedy show at Dakota Sports launch for them in the fall. So that's a really great charity, and I'm a total sucker for animals. And then I think, you know, mamas for mamas is a big one. I love what they do.They're going national now across Canada. I think it's a really impressive organization. Obviously, less supporting them at the events that they put on. So they're pretty fun too. So it's always a good time.

Speaker 2: Cool. Yeah. That's an awesome one. I didn't know there's one national. That's wicked.

Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. They're branching out a lot, so it's pretty cool. It's growing fast.

Speaker 1: Cool. That is very cool. Oh, how can we or our listeners help you help you grow your business, your next one? What can we do for you?

Speaker 4: Oh, use my next one. Oh my gosh. Well, we're looking for properties in exempt communities. So Yeah. Indigenous land, alpine communities, international outside of BC.I'm really open to any opportunity that's coming my way, that comes my way, I'm also developing a course. So if people are interested in getting in on this business and wanna do it without losing the tens of both the thousands of dollars that I've lost with all my mistakes. I've got a really good way to streamline that for you coming out. So, yeah, that would be another thing to support. I think if if you needed it.

Speaker 2: That is super cool. Yeah.

Speaker 1: That's awesome. You're doing online course or

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 4: Yeah. And it's very, very in-depth. So I'm working with a course creator, copywriter, and it's absolutely every tool that we use, how we use them, our calculators, all of our spreadsheets, the accounting module, the accounting's been the biggest struggle in this business. It's very, very complicated. Yeah.We have an in house EGA now, so we've really dialed in our processes with that. And so, yeah, for one package price I can share it to the world.

Speaker 1: That's cool. And amazing. You know, that's awesome.

Speaker 2: Has anyone ever done that before? Like, are there courses out there?

Speaker 4: There's courses out there. What I have not seen yet is, like, we've got the design. So the idea behind my course is I'm gonna be showing people not only the blueprint how to host, how it was built, how we do everything, but also how I vertically integrated it. So building the design company, building the cleaning company, which has really sustained our revenue in the off season, but it's also really helped us maintain our staff because it's really difficult to have a seasonal business. You lose your staff in the winter, retrain, and find new people in

Speaker 1: the summer.

Speaker 4: But this maintain them. Right? And so we've got people that are up at the hill now and they'll come down here in the summer. So wanting to show people how we've structured that and built that And what a difference it's made on as far as profits go? I mean, we're all here to make putty.Right? So

Speaker 2: Cool. That's that's

Speaker 1: Anything else you wanna touch on about anything that we miss during?

Speaker 4: I don't think so. I think that was a great chat, and we talked about a lot of it. If people wanna reach out, they always can. They have any questions. It's amanda at how to host dot c a.And I'm an open book. I'm always happy to chat. I never really shut up. So Thank you, Lisa. And it's like one.

Speaker 2: Cool. I love it.

Speaker 1: It's been awesome talking to you.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Thank you.

Speaker 4: Thanks for having us.

Speaker 0: Thanks for listening to the Kelona real estate podcast. Be sure to reach out and let us know how else we can add value to your Kelona real estate journey. Please show some support by hitting the like, share, and subscribe button. This is sponsored by Matt Glenn Real Estate and Taylor at venture mortgages.