Stephanie Mills...PERIODT

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Jay dot Ill, a production of iHeartRadio. Hi, welcome to Jay dot Ill the Podcast. This is Jill Scott and I'm here with my sister friends. Hey, Joe Graydon Dan's luck. That would be myself and Layah's Saint Claire. You better talk about it, tell the world about it. Yeah, today's uh, this conversation that we're having today, I'm having a little bit of trouble because you know, I don't I don't know where to begin. Bless see. Well, I remember being a little girl with my mom and we got all dressed up and she even I even had a purse that day, and I don't know how she managed this, um, but we were on the front row of a play and um my mom had taken me to many plays at this point, and you know, I was I was sighted, and I was told to, you know, cross my legs because I was sitting in a front seat, which I did like a little lady. And I even had perfume at that well, we saw The Whiz and I remember there were parts that scared me and I climbed under the chair because I was afraid, and my mom said, it's okay, it's okay. It's okay. And I remember sitting back in my chair and watching and I had my whole body pushed forward and this voice, all ladies and gentlemen, this voice it was it was just it was pure and warm and real and honest. And when she sang home, I'm about to cry. I'm trying to getting myself together. When she sang home, it was this feeling of like somebody had poured syrup, warm syrup, all over our bodies. It was one of the most amazing, incredible experiences that I've had in a life, in a whole lifetime. I'm going to continue with some more stories. Years later, many many years later, I had an album out and I was doing pretty good, I think, and there was an artist who had a number one hit on the radio. And this is this is hearsay. I don't know if this is true or not, but I'm gonna go ahead and tell this story. Well, anyway, there was this this artist that had a number one hit on the radio. It was everywhere was great for them, and they were doing a show with this woman that I'm going to introduce you to. Okay, anyway, so the artist was upset that they had to go before the woman that we're about to speak to now, and made a big stink about it, made such a stink to the promoters and such they said fine, you know, I mean didn't say fine. But actually the artist that is here with us today she heard because people in the band were overhearing, you know, the foolishness I want. I don't understand. I got a number one hit. So the band went back and told this lovely artist that I'm with and she said, go ahead, let them close. Well, honey, I was not there, okay, so take this with with the you know, a spoonful of not even a spoon, take it with a grain of salt, because I was not there. But from what I understand from the musicians that were there and the artist members that were there, that Miss Stephanie Mills got on stage and proceeded to tear the bricks out of the building one by one. Don't buy one, understand dub And she hadn't even sung home yet. Okay, Oh they be Afterwards, after the crowd hads cried and sung and danced and hugged each other and cheered Miss Stephanie Mills on. They were exhausted because she left no crumbs, not a single one. Everybody was full, okay. And then the artist that made such a stink went on after her and sang the one song that they had that was the hit. And that's all you can really say is blessed, bless their heart, ladies and gentlemen. It is are great and deep honor and pleasure to say hello to miss Stephanie Mills. SI you guys, and you know that is a true story. It's sad, but it's true. But later years, that same artist, like maybe last two years ago, sent me a letter and apologized for that. And and that was that bb Kings. Yeah, was that bb Kings. I don't want to say the artist name because I'm not into that, but that was that was a true story. She wouldn't even take a picture with me. We won't want to take picture. She wouldn't take a picture with me or anything. And I was like, okay, this, I can go on. First even now, I have no problem. First, second, whatever, I'm going to go on and enjoy myself because I really love to perform and sing. So even now and even now, there's some artists out there that are mean, you know, and they are of my age and of my error and they're still mean and I don't know why, but I just like to enjoy and I like to lift us up. I'm unapologetically black. Yes you were, I say black, Andy, Black, black up in here. As as a general rule, welcome home, Thank you, thank you. We love you for it. We do. You're just the tiny pocket of fantastic and brilliant vocals. My goodness. Wow wow wow wow. Okay. We need that kind of we need you know, that kind of leadership and an energy at all times amongst us, those of us who are strong in who we are and in and in our craft. Yes, because all don't decide to do both right. Some decide to just be strong in the craft, which is fine, But others who decide to be strong in the craft, but then also be strong in their word and what they say, in their identity and who they are and repping for us as a community and a culture. That's very important to me, because there's a lot of scared negroes out there, and I don't know why in twenty twenty three were still afraid. You know, I've been told so many times, oh, you're going to be blacklisted, or you're gonna be this if you do that. You know, when I took off to have my son in five years, I was home with him coming home because I wanted to be home with my son when he came home to school. Oh that's a death, that's suicide. I've had people tell me, oh, dark girls are not popular anymore and you should learn how to sing jazz and to that, you know, I just listen and I'm like, you have your opinion, but God has a whole another opinion. And That's how I've always lived my life. I've always you know, I've always been told I was to this, too black, to this, too short, not pretty enough, and I never bought into that. I always stayed in my lane, did what I wanted to do, and I never wanted to be well. I am pop because I am popular, just like Jill, it's pop, she's popular, So what is pop? You know, I've always said we're popular, We already pop. You know, it's just what they choose to put their machine behind. And I've had that machine behind me early in my career, and I understood what it meant and what it didn't mean. But I chose to be who I am, and I liked what I was doing, so I didn't want to. I didn't want to have to sell my soul to be a certain to get at a certain level. And I don't like when people say, oh, you should be at this level? What level you're already at a level? What level is that? I never understood that when people say sell your soul, what does that mean to you? That means that you have done or will do just about anything to be in a circle of people that you don't need to be in. All the people that I know that have been encircles what they thought was better or that would further their career is dead. M they are dead. Um why do we I don't. I never understood why we see artists, our black artists, or you see the example of what not to do, and then you continue to go down that same time. I never, I never understood it. And I never understand why we think vanilla ice cream is colder than chocolate. I never, I never understood that. And I don't know if it's what we think. What do you think it is? Like you said, um, some artists are pushed, some content is pushed, and that is to keep us not loving each other, yes, not being kind to one another, not listening to one another, separating. It's the said whole, you know, Willie Lynch thing still absolutely absolutely However, you know, people argue about if that's true or not, but it appears to be true to me because it's continuing separate the light from the dark, the young from the old, separate the families from their children, you know, just separation. And it's it appears that this is what this particular society enjoys. They prefer us that way. You said something I won't pretend to quote you, but I thought it was absolutely the truth you said. It was something along the lines of, um, they want our music, just not from us, Yes, they want R and B, but not from me or you. They wanted from Justin Timberlake or Adell or Molly Cyrus. So you know there's still you know, like, how can you name Justin Timberlake the R and B king? What is that? Who did that? Nobody? You know? Is so offensive? It's very offensive. I find it offensive. But it's what it is, you know. It's like, it's what it is. You don't expect anything different. But if like uh Tyweese that song Shane, that was incredible and Justin Timberlake sang that song. Yes'll be hearing it right now, right right, it would have he would want all kind of Grammys, all kinds of this. It's the same thing, and it's really sad. Yeah, because we followed it. We followed the same model. When we become we do the same thing. I would saying with somebody the other day they were like, why do you why do some people feel like they need a white figurehead to do things? I was like, no, shase definitely, But I was like, it's a very boomer mentality. But it's not their fault, right right, It's not their fault because that's what they had to do. So now we're stopping it, but we need to continue to tell the story of why we did it and why it wasn't their fault. But you know it's it's yeah. I mean, we have a business that doesn't like to update its modality. It fights every time our business has to shift or change, it fights it tooth and nail. Yes, And I don't know if that's like that with every other industry, but this industry is very married to the way that it does things, and so people just don't want to shift or change. More real talk after the break. You mentioned the machine. I really want you to speak to some of the younger artists. I think the machine is very It's attractive because it helps to get things done that they think they need to get done. What are some of the things that they need to really think about if they're going to engage with the machine. How do you maintain and still end up a Stephanie Mills having the mentality that you have after interacting with that. Stay true to yourself, you know, know how, just like they know how to deal with us, you have to know and learn how to deal with them and get what we need from them in just that space. But keep your surroundings small and keep people that you can trust. You can't trust everybody, and sometimes even the people that you have around you will sell you out. So you have to give what you can give. But keep the best part of yourself or yourself yourself. Don't teach everybody everything you know. Oh, I always say you can give. You could give a lot, but definitely keep keep the most important parts for yourselves. You have to you have to and just navigate, navigate through it. That's not what they do because they they throw us away when they're finished making money off of us, and then there's an you flavor, you know what I'm saying. So as soon as they make money, I mean, they'll cancel us just like nothing. It's nothing to them, We mean nothing to them. We are dollar cents, we are dollars. And I mean, look how they made the rap game R and B? What what is that? For a long time took the R and B category of off television. I think it still is. It still is because it doesn't matter to them. And why we don't see that, Why we don't address that. The ones that have that kind of power, the ones that have elevated to that kind of power, why don't they adjust that? They don't because they're afraid to be canceled. Yeah, I absolutely believe that we need a whole other thing. We need We need other shows, We need other support, We need other outlets we do that that really celebrate excellence. But here's the thing we have. We have some other shows, right like we have Image Awards, we now have De Grio. The question is the way that certain shows legitimize you as an artist. You can have a fifty dozen black things, but if this is this, this one is the king, and you keep making it the king, and you make it the king, right, you pay your money. And the thing is, the king don't pay you. The king doesn't give you anything. You pay the king to sit in the king's court. And this is this is this is when we don't elevate. Like I said, if you're using the same model and you slap a black face on it, it's not different. This is the problem though, that a lot of people don't know a lot of the black shows are written by white writers. A lot of them. Yes, yes, yes, they put a black director or a black producer in front of it to make you think it's black. And they did. That's why I thought that, because Jesse p did. It's not it's not. Then these these black shows have a white producer that's telling them what they can and cannot do. That's the problem. And then you have your beets who sold to to what Amazon? You think they care about us? I think Barry Gordy should have held on to motown. We sell our things out and whites hold on to theirs. That's power, that's wealth, you know what I'm saying. It's like we should Bob Johnson should have never sold b et why white people hold on to their things. We got to learn to hold on to ours and pass it down to our children. I saw an interview recently with Byron Allen shout out to him. He said he was in the in the room when Barry Gordy sold Motown, and he said all he could do with crying. I'm just grown in in the suit handling business, just sobbing like a baby. You know. I probably added more to that. Yeah, it's like, how much more money do you really need? Is that's so powerful? We should still own Motel and I think I agree it's been revitalized. I also think if we're going to have these companies, we also need to be more ethical about our practices. Yes, if we are, we have to step up and be better than what we've been taught to be from these other, you know examples. If we're going to be exploitative too to our own people, then what does that say? So a lot of times it's for me, it's it's it's and in both we should be an ownership of our own things, but we should be operating at a level that far exceeds the ethical or the moral compass or whatever you want to call it. You know that these I mean a completely different model, Yes, completely different, because you know me personally, I'm not happy with a black man owning my masters, no more than I'm happy with a white man owning master absolutely. Um huh wow. And where do we start? Well, I love it. This, this is tea baby. And where do we start? I'm into it. Listen, it's gonna be quiet because this is what you do. This is this is what you do, ladies and gentlemen of however old you are, when you are in a space with someone who has far more experience than you, who has seen and felt things that you you couldn't even put into words. When you're in that space, you get quiet. Okay. So this is one of those times that I'm just so pleased to be able to speak to you. We all are, which is so pleased and excited. What are you excited about? I'm excited about us. I love us and I will for My mother was a very strong, strong woman and had a business in Brooklyn. I'm from Brooklyn, New York, grew up in bed Stot. My mother was an activist and didn't even know it, you know, she was always like cookie, don't have a look back. That's what my family called me, cookie. Don't ever look back. If you can't be the corn, don't be the cob. You know. It's it's those things that she taught me when I was a little girl. I now so understand. You know, she told me not to trust. You know, she's from the South, so she didn't trust a lot of white She didn't trust even some of the blacks that was there. But she definitely taught me to pay attention to what was going on. And when you're growing up, you're like, oh, mom, I don't want to do that. But now that I as I gotten older, I really realized what she was telling me, and I apply that to my life, my every day life. I'm excited just about living, and now that I have at sixty, going to be sixty six, I have joy and I have peace. I didn't allow this business to ruin me. I never was about the business. I love to sing and I love to do it, but I was never about the fake shit, you know, going to the parties and having to be done up one hundred percent all the time. I wasn't Stephanie Mills all the time. That's deadly. You cannot be yourself. It's deadly. I mean, you have to go to the post office, So I go to the grocery store. You know, I have a normal life because that shit fades away. You're riding a limousine every day, and what if you lose all your stuff? Didn't what happens? You're like crazy. And I know an artist in particular, I won't mention the name that did not know how to function, couldn't do anything on her own, and she's not with us anymore. But I always wanted to drive myself. I didn't get caught up in old Miss Mills, old NA because I know who I am, I know where I came from. I came from Brooklyn. My mother was like, you still have to wash those dishes, You still have to clean your room. Yeah, a lot of stuff is it's fake. Even when I was doing the whiz at uh at nineteen, my mother still made me do chores, you know. And I just think you have to keep it real. Don't get caught up in the Oh your star what stars are in the sky? Sound like Jill in the sky? Let me tell you. So it's like you sing and you and and I appreciate my fans, so so so much as when everybody canceled me in the industry, I was able to I was still I was because I missed it. I'm like, I'm telling you, I still was able to do my shows and sell out my shows. When was that, well, you mean years years ago. But even now, you know, I was never the popular one. I was never like I was never like the popular one because I wasn't willing to do like when I lived in Los Angeles, because I lived in Los Angeles for nine years and I would go to auditions, which I hate auditioning. They would always make you feel so small. And so I called my mom one day and I was like, I just don't want an audition. I was crying. I was like, I can't do it. They just look at you like you're crazy. But she said, don't do it. She said, only do what people offer you. She said go where you're celebrated, not tolerated. And I never forgot that, and that's what I teach my son, and Honey, he thinks he's the king of the world. You can He's like, I go with celebrated, not tolerated. And that's what I did. And that was after the Wiz you're talking about her. That was because I didn't want to for The Whiz. I went to the Wiz audition chrime because I had gone up for so many things and didn't get them, so I was like, I don't want to go. My mother took me and I sang for them, and then they called me back and after three auditions, I got the roles as Dorothy. That's the one. Yes, that was the safe. That was where they wanted you. Okay, do you do you remember how much you got paid on Broadway. I got paid fifteen hundred dollars a week plus perdem plus perdem. That's pretty good, right for the time. I mean fifteen ten thousand dollars to day or ten thousand dollars a week. Yeah, that I got paid fifteen hundred dollars. Yep, I remember that. That was such a glorious time to be around all of that, and Charlie Smalls and Ken Harper, Oh my god, yes. Oh. And love when you say his name? You know, I love when you say his name, right, Ted Ross? Ted Ross, Yeah, Ross was amazing. He won a Tony for the show. The Whiz won seven Tony's Yes, and we won for best musical Dedi Bridgewater one for Glinda ted Ross one. But it was just. But they did not want us on Broadway, no, honey. They gave us the worst reviews ever. But my mother belonged to a church, Cornerstone Baptist Church in Brooklyn, and Ken Harper's mother belonged to a huge church, and they brought churchloads of buses to our show. And then once we did the commercial, then it opened up and the Whiz was but even still the way the Whiz closed, they weren't gracious to us. Yeah, we remever hear their story. No, they weren't gracious. They moved us. We were at the Majestic Theater and they moved us to the Broadway Theater, which was a bigger theater. Well, we had been on Broadway for five years. So what they did was they moved us where we would fail and the and the Wiz didn't do the business at the Broadway Theater that it did at the Majestic. They should have never moved us. But they didn't want us there anymore. M hm. And Broadway is truly the Great White Way. They don't want us, They do not want us there at all time. We had racing in the sun. We had Bubbling Brown Show. There was nothing but black shows on Broadway. When the whisticated ladies, sophisticated ladies shot George to his name, his name, brilliant, brilliant. There will never be a choreographer that did the Wiz storm like George Faison did. They're bringing uh the Wiz back to Broadway, but I don't care what they do. If it ain't gonna be the exact thing, it ain't never gonna be right. Makes zero sense to me because I know when when I was doing Rent, if I did anything different, I got a note. Yes, you're supposed to uphold the writer's concept. You are not supposed to budge or move. Once it's solidified, it is done, and you do anything off, of course you're gonna get fired. Yea. But you know what, it seems like there is a bit of an obsession with a reconstant reworking of the Whiz, the not upholding of the you know, of the original. Yeah, and I don't feel like it's all the way bad, but I'm just I mean not, I don't think it's bad. I just think it's just interesting how it is something culturally that we want to continue to reimagine exactly rather than uphold the original in that way, you know what I'm saying. Where they uphold Hello Dolly, they have a whole funny girl. They uphold Chicago Fago. You know nothing about why do we have to change something that wons seven Tony Awards. And Stephanie, you mentioned something very important you mentioned when you were talking about George Faison and the wind scene. People don't understand that this woman right here that is the wind exactly with If you don't see that, you have no reference of, like what the symbol that you see when you see the original Wiz meetings. It's gonna be very interesting to see what they do to the Wiz, and if they do something that is not good, I'm definitely going to speak out about it. Yes, yeah, I want to shout out George Paison also because George Faison also did so much work with so many R and B artists, in particular Yes Earth went in Fire and and also with Ashford and Simpson. And I remember when we met with George and we were working on a project with him at one point, and George Faizon got us together. I just need you to I just put that. He got my husband, Yes, he got me and my husband together on stage. He came out to see our show and he was just like, we need to talk, and yes, we need to talk. And he was like, listen, I'm just gonna give you a few pointers. I'm gonna pull some things from Nick and Val to y'all can understand how this needs to look. And he taught us things that to this day my husband and I still do on stage because George Fison was like, this is the way, this is the this is the frame, this is the way this should look. When he is singing, you want to be you want to slide back when you're singing. He's giving us all of this direction. So if you ever come see Kendred the Family Soul on stage, you're going to see as that's part of the legacy that George Faizon has passed on artists and the way that they perform. I love it. Yes, Oh my god, George was amazing and we did this. We did The Whist three times. I did The Whiz on Broadway originally, and then I did two revivals of it and it was always brilliant. And then the last revival we did, I got to do it with Andre Deshields, who was Alter. Andrea and I keep in touch. I think we're getting ready to do something in October for the Whiz of Oh my God, because he's he's one of the only folks still like left. Yes, he's only one of the only ones. Yes, and we can see him. It's funny. I watched him in the Martin short where he was he did a little stint on The Martin Short Steve Martin Show, but just a reference for everybody. He's awesome. Yeah, he's awesome. Did you enjoy the movie? I enjoyed. You know. I was a die still is a Diana Ross fan. Her and Michael would come to the show during that time, almost every night to watch it. And I stayed with Michael when he was filming the show on Sutton Place, and one morning we got up and I went with him to the shooting. But the Wiz movie was nothing like the Whiz play You tell us how I Please? It was their version. I mean, I was a young girl, Diana was a school teacher. It wasn't like the play. They didn't take it from the play and make it that. No. But when the other director was going to do it. They were considering me to do Dorothy, but when Sidney Lamet took over, he wanted Diane Ross. It's it's literally it's one of my favorite things. I took it to show and tell in the third grade. I took the record to show and tell the Wiz play had loved and hard work and just loving it. It's just like if you eat some food and it has attitude in it. You said this, this person cook this food in the head added to you. You can tell when when Jill seems I'm living my life like my own golden. That touches my heart. When people ask me how am I living my life? I say like I'm golden. You know, you can tell when things have loved it. And the Wiz movie to me, didn't have love in it. Neither did the one we did in twenty fifteen. That was very interesting to me. To do a version we did that was oh god. But you know what though, shout outs to several people that were really that did some vocally beautiful things as well. But yeah, I played on AM. But what's interesting to me also to is that so the movie for a lot of us is so like significant to our kind of development as young people, those of us who weren't able to get to bar our Way, you know what I'm saying, right, And in my household, my sister and are seven years apart. So my sister went to you on Broadway. Okay, I didn't get that chance. I was very little at the time. I didn't go. And but the movie is like this huge significant thing for me. I have an aunt who told me one time. You know, every year, the Wizard of Oz will come on TV, and that's what I used to watch and I loved it. And I and my aunt said to me one day, she says, this is a beautiful movie, and I know you love it, she said, but you will never understand the meaning of the Wizard of Oz until you see the Wiz. The Wiz help me understand what the real meaning of this story is. She was like it. And so once that became like something I heard from an elder, the movie took on like a whole nother you know, life for us. But I think the thing about the Broadway version that I think is so important and I want to just circle back to it. And you touched on this is that some things must be cannon. Some things we need to really be specific about preserve so that it lasts, so that people who were not able to see it in its original form with the original cast can go back and see a revival of it and know that they're getting that same experience that somebody who saw it twenty years prior saw or experienced. It is just it's so important. I do wish and hope for this next kind of iteration that they really are trying to to respect that fact. I'm hoping that, do you know I'm hoping. I haven't heard much about it. I did meet one of the producers when I went to see Piano lesson on Broadway, and he was there and he was telling me that they're starting to do the whiz and I told him, I hope that you're staying true too. Yeah. His skin look, yeah, his skin look yes. Okay. It's it's called respect, Stephanie. Do you feel respected? I feel respected? You know why, because I don't. I didn't seek respect from anybody else. You know what I'm saying. I respect myself and my fans respect me. People that I care about, people that spend their hard earned money to buy my CDs, to go and purchase things on my website. I feel very respected. That's why I've never done any of those shows. Unsung. What is that? What people getting lost in the title? I know, bored or against it? I get I would never do. They've tried to get me to do and I'm like, no either, but friends, but that way, they need to change the title. Now it's fun, it's weird. Yeah, I feel very respected, especially now in my later years. I feel very respected because I'm proud of myself of not giving in to the noise. And there's a lot of noise and Jill nose, there's a lot of people in your eel. You should do this, you should be here, you should do this. I didn't listen to the noise. We're gonna take a quick break and then we'll be right back. What are some of your like self tear and like you know practices like you your skin looks amazing, your voice is still you know you you look amazing, you sound amazing. Like help help us help ourselves. I've always been a sleeper. I sleep very well, my friend, I sleep very well. But I go and get um facials every four weeks, every six weeks. I get I'm a I'm a pamper, pamper girl. I love to get my nails done. I love to get pedicuris. I really love to take care of myself. I sing every day and I exercise, but now that I'm older, I can't do the exercise that I was doing years ago. So I walk on the treadmill and I'll do stuff like that. But I I stay in tune to me. I don't listen to like people say, oh, Stephanie, you should there is this new I don't follow the new trend. I follow what works for me, and what I've been doing over the years works for me, and that's what I tell him. I'm like, I what works for me works for me. I'm not mad that you do that or you do I've never had any bull techs. I had my nose done when early eighties, and that's when Michael had his done and I was following behind him and I had I would have never known that if you didn't say that, like it's a very good, a beautiful job. After that, I didn't do. They kept going and I stopped. But that's that's what I do. Great that you are so aware of yourself and that you've been really honest and vocal about your opinions and your thoughts, and you know, like we're dealing obviously with a cancel culture. But what I noticed when I listened to interviews that you've had is that you'll be dropping all kinds of goodness and knowledge and affirmation on people, but what will get picked will be whatever could be remotely silacious. I've had that experience myself and been like, well, of all the things and then a clip of it, but not in context. Right, how do you how do you deal with that? Because I mean the option is to not say or do anything. I'm not clapped back, you know, because the three most important people in my life that really have that have molded me was my mother, my father, and the Honorable Minister Lewis Baraka, which I will never deny him in a way, just like when they took him off Instagram. I even said, you know, well you might as well take me off because I'm still learning promote and say. He's my pops. I've been around him since I was sixteen years old. I will never deny him, and people that talk about him don't really know him. I have stayed at his house, have grown up as kids. We used to fight as kids. So that his teachings and my mother's Christian teaching, and my father because my mother and father were deacon and deaconess of cord A Stone Baptist Church, has molded me to who I am. I could never I don't want to clap back at people. It doesn't make sense. They have their opinion and I have mine. If I want to say what I want to say, I think about what I say and then I say it because I'm never ever gonna apologize for nothing I said. I hate when people do that shit. If you said something and felt that way, stand on it. Don't appolicize, But if you heard somebody Stephanie will look at all the things that have been said about us. We've been called gorillas, our first lady was disrespected the entire eight years that they were in the White House. They never clapped back. They're killing one, they're killing George Floyd, They're killing us like we're nothing. What do we have to apologize for? They heard us every day. I experience racism every day when I travel, and we've I experienced racism every day because of my braids, when my head was straight out, didn't experience it. That's real. That's real. They heard us every day, So what you know, It's like, I don't intentionally, I never try to hurt anybody. But if you come for me and I have not sent for you, then I'm coming back for you. And that's just real. She said what she said, she said what she sent. But if you can go back and look and see, I have never said anything hurt anybody. I won't even mention people that have hurt me and said things about me. But like when fifty cent came for Michael's daughter, and let's talking about I came for him because I'm older, So take it to me. She's a young girl defending her father. Why would you say stuff like you know? I was like, keep Michael's name out of your mouth. He's not here to defend himself. I love that relationship. I love when you talk about your relationship with Michael, because people who don't really didn't really know, didn't know how close that you guys were. Yeah, yeah, and we were very very clear, and we got to expect elders to do elder things like we can't be mad and say we don't have elders and then try to silence them, right, I think it's important to have an open, open communication with our elders, obviously because we all have a lot to learn from one another. But it's just like, come on, I mean, even how you reached out to Meggan the Stallion, that those kind of intergenerational things to come to the defense of each of each other is important and to correct, to openly correct and defense. I reached out to Megan the Stallion when she got shot in the foot. I was appalled. I was, I was. It hurt my heart and a lot of things that I see these young women go through, it just hurts my heart. It's like, don't allow a man to treat you like that, to disrespect your being. We are the mothers of the earth. She had children something that they cannot do. The maraggedy asked niggas they cannot do. Don't let a man mistreat you. I've been married three times and I will not. And it was my fault. I mean, some of it was my fault. I can't blame it all on the men. But these men that they want to be us, they carry persons, They wear more jewelry than we do. They dressing and dresses. I would like to have our dresses back. I really would. I would really like to have our dresses back. Can we just have that shit back? I mean, I I just don't understand it. It's like, come on, but you know, we live in this type of world where every and anything goes. There's no respect for no one. They don't And you know what, I'm tired. That's why I didn't even with um Tyree the man that was beaten to death. That was very That was a person a personal beating. But I wouldn't put that off. I'm tired of doing that. You know, we all do it and put it on our page and then two days later it's gone. We have to change the and and and you know, I love Reverend Shopton, but he needs to sit down because he's not changing. He's not changing anything. It keeps going and he keeps going to the funerals. So come on. And I know him very well, but I'm like, look, I'm tired of y'all getting up there and talking. We got to change it. What do we need to do to change it? That's what that's where I am. We got to change them the thinking. And it's not so much white people have to change their thinking about us. We've forgiven them, We've been more than forgiving, but they haven't changed their idea of what black people and people of color are. It's just so tricky because the more we show of ourselves, the more um it's taken stolen bit off of shoot up from you know, it's as soon as it's like I want I want a news network that is created by and run by black people. Yes, us, but I would like one week? Yes, but no. But you know what the problem is, And it's just like with black press. Once black artists crossover, they no longer go back to the black press. They they that is true, They don't. They don't. They don't reverence that as being important, and so we have to recondition our minds that to love ourselves. Yes, black press is important. They helped you get to that point. Why would you just cut them out? I always do. I always do a black press, I always, I always do because that's who helped me get on. Why would I just not associate? The public doesn't really notice that. That's as interesting as you say that, Like, they don't notice that some of their biggest favorite artists, whose tickets or thousands of dollars won't be on like they won't. It's ridiculous for anybody's ticket to be fifteen hundred dollars or thousand dollars. That's crazy. The Hedwige Black family can't pay that. So who are you? Who are you? Oh? That makes me upset, That just makes me up. A lot of that is and you know, Joe Biden just came out and spoke about it. Where you know, a lot of it is a lot of that junk fees. A lot of fees are being attached to ticket sales that sometimes double the cost of the tickets there. There there's forty fifty, sixty, seventy dollars in fees. You know, w a ticket that cost you know that that might start out costing one hundred and fifty bucks, you pay sixty dollars in fee. There's so much the Congress a couple of weeks ago, because it is. Yeah, there's so much attached to this. But I do understand both sides of this thing, to be honest, you know, one hundred percent understand where you're coming from. You know, I gotta say, miss Stephanie, I'm sorry. I can't my brain can't call you, Stephanie. I apologize, but you know, there's you know, I understand exactly where you're coming from in the sense of that it's like what family, what person can afford that? But I also understand the fact that that we have a hard time place and a proper value and what we do a lot of us as artists where people are making big, big money off of what artists do and other artists are She's the biggest artist on the planet, and it's like, there's there's there is got to be some kind of way that we can continue and I and I struggle with this because you know, I hate capitalism, and I definitely struggle with us playing these kind of games. But I also understand that as artists, we oftentimes end up the person who benefits the least from the product that we make. And that happens at every level, even on that major mass, that major high high level, And you know, so anyway that I struggle with that a little bit, I see on both sides. Let me tell you something, there ain't nobody bigger than God. There's nobody bigger than God nowhere. And I don't care if you're the biggest artist on the planet. I do not care. You're not worth three thousand dollars. I take it THEREADI I am going to agree to disagree because I show enough paid a whole whapper to go see Bett Midler. And I said in that audience, in that second row, and I smiled as hard as I could, how much did you pay? Thirty five hundred dollars? And Barbara Streit saying, Barbara Streit saying when she did her Farewell tour, people were paying thousands of dollars to go and see her. So from a from a consumer standpoint, is it that as as I follow your career and you grow, that I too should grow and I should be able to make enough money as you're growing to support you no matter where you go, so that I can afford that? Is that? How am I posting? Think as a as a fan because I want to go, But I'm like, and if the people that you put in your videos that make you look good and make you look nice and brown and culture and in the streets, if they can't afford it too, and certain only certain people, then when you look in the crowd and you only see certain whining, don't see white people. Yeah, but I'm telling y'all, it's a lot to it because even when you think about like you you might pay thirty five hundred dollars for a sofa, you know, and yes you sit on it every day or year. But are what we're saying is that art in music is not as valuable as furniture. What we do, what we all on this almost two what three fourths of us do on this call, is what we do. What is the value? What is the value of it? What is the value of it? What is the value of art? I just don't think that I paid three hundred and fifty dollars to go see Bruno Mars. My son love Bruno Mars, and I paid three hundred and fifty. I didn't mind paying that, but I will never ever pay twenty five hundred three. I will never pay no meal attached. I will never I will never pay that to my son to see Kindrick Lamar. I spend six hundred dollars. Yeah, there's no in the front row. Did you have front row with three fifty? Did you have front row with six hundred? I have front row at at three fifty. I was like on the side, uh, I had front row there, But I just I guess I won't see artists because I I don't think everybody's gonna charge that much either, you know, and it's probably you can do it at levels. Let's just say, let's say you do a performance with an orchestra at I don't know, um, Carnegie Hall or the Lincoln Center like that. How much was Princeton's tickets? He didn't he how much was his tickets? Still interesting? Like forty seven dollars? Shut up, Jill, I'm serious, Like he had he to me he did it the right way. He did not. How did he do that? He made a deal with he made some kind of deal with whoever was promoting him, or he didn't allow them. So that's the thing. To make the corporations pay the big ticket and make your fans like if you feel I get you, Asia, you feel like you're worth it, you are, but just not for me. Don't let them. Don't let the cost stuff it trickled down to the consumer or the worker. The person should not It's kind of like that situation where you know that the restaurants can pay their servers a living wage, but it's up to you as the consumer to then, you know, we all do tip. I always tip. I believe in tipping, but but that should the person's livelihood shouldn't be based on that. Corporations are constantly throwing the cost of labor that is valuable into the consumers, um lab when they should be paying people fair, fair prices. Exactly if I always, I always tip, and I always uh tip over what it what it is because you've got people out here working hard. But you gotta remember, even as an artist, your fans are the ones that's keeping you going. That's the pote. Meanwhile, it's a box full of nob nation folks at the show. They ain't even paid because you know it, don't even pay. They don't even pay. All of the rich people that are coming to the show, all the rich and famous, they're not paying. You're not paying that they're not paying. Oh y'all just my brain. Oh I'm you leave it to Prince to have the answer, because Prince printed also made a whole lot of money before he had them made the decision. And I think some tickets at the Greek for like twenty five dollars a ticket, and he did, um um, what do you call a residency? And I think that that's a perfect way to continue your musical legacy. Yes, that you people can get to you. Yeah, because otherwise they can't. I can't imagine somebody a black family saying, oh, I'm gonna take my family to see Beyonce at three thousand dollars a ticket. Yeah, no, two parents, like three kids. You know who else kind of does this model too? Is a chance the wrapper. Yes, he does a lot of work where he makes the kind of corporate overhead pay for what he's doing. You know. It's but it gets tricky also when you start messing around with the corporations. The thing is that with the corporations, you know, I mean, there's no way that you can streaming services. You're in You're in there, honey, you're in Oh you're already tied into it. This is the world that we live in. But I can't lie to you. You know. It's that that age old you know thing, How do I function within this system in the most ethical way possible for myself and what I want to do? And it goes back to the original kind of advice that Stephanie Oh gosh, my body is shaking said in the beginning, where she was just like, listen, the machine is the machine, but you have to be able to navigate that machine with your own kind of compass and understand who you are within it, use it for what you can get it to do, for what you needed to accomplish for the moment, but not allowing that to kind of define you to where that becomes how you operate. And it's really difficult. It is really difficult, which is why you being in the space where you are right now is not to be under celebrated. It should be celebrated to the highest degree because it's not an easy thing for people to do. Yeah. Yeah, more conversation after the break. I my little twenty three years in this business. You can't stay lettle. That's not a lettle. Well, you know, in comparison to you, my dear, I can see how people can give up. I can see how. I went to see a showcase last night of talented young people. They put on the best show. One of the young girls, I think she's like fifteen years old. She sang at last with all the conviction and sincerity that you could sing at last. She did that, And then I say that, you know, there's different levels of careers, if level is the right word, just just different careers. And if you can make one doing something that you love to do, that feels right for your soul, truly and sincerely, even when nobody's around, and especially when nobody's around. If you can create a career like that for yourself, you have absolutely one. How do you forgive those that attempted to stop you or diminish you or stand in the way. How do you do that? And if you do a lot of therapy and giving it to God and taking my hands off of it, it's like, God, it's too much for me to bear, and then go talk to my therapist. That's what you have to have to do. And then you still have to believe that you're moving in the right direction for you. That's the most important thing is to stay your course, because if you get our course, you're doing what somebody else wants you to do. And people will always say, well, she didn't listen, she didn't do this. But I'm still here and I'm still enjoying my life and living my life on my own terms, and that's what I wanted. I'm living my life and doing what I want to do on my own terms, and that's so important. Thank you so much. How can we continue to support you? Stephanie, like, how do you How can we continue to love on you? Everybody who's listening to just say a prayer for me, Say a prayer for me. You know you want to come to my show, Come to my show, but just say a prayer for me, and remember what I You know what I've said, and take it to heart. And you can use me as an example. Because I never wanted to be an artist that wound up broke, wound up in a drughouse. I never wanted to be that because I saw that, so I never so. I always lived my life under the radar and was able to take care of myself no matter what happened. And I think that's important. It's not how well you live, it's how long you live. Well, that's important. Bars can I say something, Yes, I didn't get a chance to fangirl on you earlier in the show properly, but I shoven know that vocally you are just, oh my god, just absolute perfection. The personality, the personality and how your vocal performance it is just like all of the layers of it, all of the feeling I don't even know. You know, a lot of times we talk about as little girls who we tried to emulate. And we don't talk enough about how we all emulated you, how we all stood in the mirror, we all, me and my step brother. I want you to understand we were. I've been up and I've been down in that I'm VORs right now. I want to embarrass myself, but I'm like the times that we stood in that mirror on our tippy toes, honey, and my brother he's gay. We were giving full you know, full you know, tow wig and everything. Okay, we were. We were fully engaged and you know, so just to just to have you here and talking to you and just hearing your wisdom, I just want to make sure that I give you your flowers. Obviously, Jill is and gives flowers in the best way like she's She's so amazingly talented at giving flowers. So mine are, you know, a little bit disjunct. You know whatever I'm wraggoning mine is a little raggedy. But I love you, I do, oh my gosh. And I just to have what you have done to preserve your spirit and your mind, your heart, your soul and your craft is inspiring and it is necessary and we will protect you at all costs. Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you so much. It is complete affirmation. This is a real three sixty for real. Please continue to enjoy j Do Elda podcast. We have conversations to spark conversation and action. It is an honor to have this day. I hope you all feel the same. Thank you so much, Thank you, love everybody making us cry? How do you eat an elephant? One? By it time? Hey listeners, it's Amber the producer here. We hope you love miss Mills as much as we do. I mean, of course you do. As you mentioned on the podcast, The Legend is on tour this year. I'll drop a link below in the show notes and that's it. Go and see the legend that is Stephanie Mills. Hi. If you have comments on something he said in this episode, call eight six six Hey Jill, if you want to add to this conversation, that's eight six six four three nine five four five five. Don't forget to tell us your name and the episode referring to you might just hear your message on a future episode. Thank you for listening to Jill Scott presents Jay dot Ill. The podcast Jay dot Ill is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.