Our Value Is Not Defined by What We Produce

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Ja dot M, a production of Our Heartwayer. What's up, y'all? This is the Lady Jill Scott. This is the podcast Jacob with My by Melia Aga Great and Don Slave of the group Kindred, the Family's Soul and they know me on the black Top as the Mother of All and Man's Dance. The kids come on. Oh and uh Margaret La Saint Clair, daughter of Karema and rons boom boom. Who's up y'all? To listen? We are here to chit chat. You know. We were here to spark communication, to spark conversation. Today we are going to be talking about this this what is this? This like no knap culture, no rest, hustle, hustle culture, busy, stay grinded, stay grinding. It's a perfect day to talk about it because I ain't gonna I'm tired of ship and now it's in the spirit and the body and post rona. Everybody's on zoom and so everybody is accessible. You can do with you at home. Right. Speaking of just of today, we all are aware that the hare will be no one prosecuted for the murder of Brianna Taylor, no one, no one, And uh we we like you just feel that, you just feel that carry that weight in you. Hashtag loving on a black woman today. That's been the spirit. Oh is that has that been going around today? Yes? Well from Yeah, I actually heard that on the radio, calling men of all colors and just love on a black woman today. Mm hmm. You know, normally we don't we don't try to date these things. But there's so much going on in our world, so much happening in this country that I feel, I feel exhausted. I do. It's it's a mental, emotional, spiritual exhaustion. And I know, you know, we're here in the United States and it's all about grind harder and uh and and and part of me does believe in that that you know, you have to work harder than everybody else. That's a part of it. Yeah, I agree, if you want to get where you want to go, But baby needs sleep sometime, Baby need to stop. Baby need a good rocking yourself to sleep before you're locking yourself in the corner of the room. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean the whole thing about exhaustion and and even tying it into like racial exhaustion or gender exhaustion or just the exhaustion that comes from capitalistic society, and that says that you'll only get to where you want to go if you pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, if you grind hard, if you're the first one there in the morning and the last one gone at night. And you know, the historical ties to that type of mythology is just so ingrained in us as a society. And for those of us who are women and those of us who are black. Um, we find ourselves caught in the middle of trying to be and achieve all that we can and not always understand that that is a myth and that it is a lie. And now we kill ourselves for that which was never meant for us to achieve. And then we have to sit back and find room to imagine a space that says, well, what does it look like for me? What does a successful life and a peaceful life and a achieved life look for me? And how do I define that? And that is you know, feels to me to be the question of the day. Having a paper bag, oh, ma'am, oh, yes, and paper bag. Paper bag is perfect. That's a perfect way to describe it, because a paper bag is so delicate, you shake it something else, a little bit of grease making weak. Baby. We are in a new paper bag and it's all kinds of seasoning up in here, and the bag is just rickety rickety. Everything has to change. And I know you know, I'm no ways weary. You know we even we've been singing these songs, the gospel songs. I'm no ways tired, no ways weary. I just cannot grasp how any human being doesn't need to refuel. Maybe it's not sleep for you. There are a lot of people, especially young people, younger people than than I, that you know, have all this energy, can get up and do the most, and often I admire that. And while you have it, that's what's up. I would say the twenties are for working hard. Do that. The thirties are for working uh smart. The forties are for working when you want to and how you want to. And that's the that's the dream, that's the okay better yet, yeah, the goal and the fifties are you know, that's up to you however you want to play that. If you want to continue to work how you want, when you want, that's what's up. If you choose not to work at all and travel the world and hang out with your family and friends and things like that. That's the way I see it. But I'm I'm hitting about to be fifty and I'm still you know, working, But my good friends, I am also taking a nap on the daily. I take naps. I gotta tell you that, you know. And we spoke about this personally between the two, between the three of us that you know, the discovery of the nat Bishop on Instagram has definitely changed my personal life. Then that bishop bishop, yes, girl, then that bishop first bishop. But in that bishop is the woman that runs the NA ministry, right, and it would have been lovely to have her on the show to talk about this this sleep revolution, this that revolution. However, she is a preacher of her own gospel, and she has taken all that she's gonna taken for in terms of work and spreading this this message and taken on And I think her absence in this moment is actually even more profound than her presence because times I find that we particularly as Black women, have these transformative messages and we're able to come up with this these brilliant theories, this brilliant philosophy, and yet we find it very difficult to live that philosophy for ourselves, mostly because the world has is in such need of our presence and such need of our of what we bring to the table, that we just can't we can't fathom how to do that. So I think her absence here drives home the message that your brilliance is essential, but your presence is not always so Wait, I want you to reiterate that Asian, because you said that's so fast. But we had discussed the fact I forgot. We discussed the fact that she's taken a break and she's not She has decided that she is not working for the rest of the year, which I found like, how why, well she's she's taken all of the work in which she has allotted. That is o fee for her. Right? Right is the goal to work how you want, when you want. When the question is at what point in life does that become the goal? Is that the revolutionary way that you think from the gate? Because we discussed and we all learn this together, trust me, we're on the same page. You work hard your twenties, smart your thirties when you want to your forties. But if the thinking is that blackness has no age, it has no gender, it has no I mean, what has it has all these things because there's agism and gender, all that stuff. The point is that blackness and our experience here and our experience as a labor class, even if he wasn't just even if we weren't black people, that we're all victims of this system. So does that have to start at a certain point in your life? Can you start to implement these life changes in this life? You know, philosophy from the gate. I talked to my son today and I said to him, he is asking me advice about his career and about you know, school, and just his plans for the next year because he's twenty one. And he said, I know it feels crazy. Come on now back he uh. And I said to him, I said, well, do you feel under any pressure to get all of these things done? And he said, no, I know, it's up to he said, I know, it's up to me how it goes from here. You know what else? I think I think that I think that we get tired of moving when it isn't necessarily the right thing for you anymore. I had the aim in hands up. Yeah, I mean, we change, we evolved, we grow, we want different things as we move along, new people come into our lives, and maybe that thing that you were so impassionate about, uh ten years ago, it's not the same. It's not the thing. Maybe you've learned something, maybe you've unlearned something, you know, and you want to move in a different direction. I do believe in following that passion, and not I don't. I don't get this. Uh. I believe in grinding, let me be clear, But grinding for something that you actually believe in want m not just because it makes you money. You're going to burn out if you don't let it, especially because we all grind it. Oh yeah, still am still are. Yeah, it's something, but it's some things that I love to do, and I in my schedule, hey listen, in my schedule, I make it a point to have some naptime. I don't care if it's quiet time. I don't care, you know, if it's stretched time. But it's my time and I need it. I need it. But so I wanted to share this little thing with you guys, because we did. You know, we're not gonna spend the whole show, obviously speaking on a nappy, Bishop but I want to bring up some of her words in this moment though, as we talk about finding that balance between the grind and the the replenish. So she says on her Instagram page, this is about more than naps. We are attempting to disrupt a toxic system that ties our worth to how much we produce. Our bodies do not belong to capitalism. We know better rest and resist, don't Ladies, How do you fight? It's exhausted, and it's it's very It's also very American too. I was It's funny when I was preparing for this show. I was looking at we forget about Siesta's and uh in Europe they do. Uh. I forget the name of there. But it's all over the world. There's some form of nap or rest that us as Americans just do not. We don't believe them. No, you know, I always got to take it back to Butuana, Yes, and in Ba I'm telling you, I will tell you forever that my time in Africa really really changed my mind about a lot of things, a lot of about a lot of things, particularly time and space. Their fat family means more than money, Time together means more. Raising your children means more than money. We It's so crazy to me that you know, when the settlers or the pilgrims or whatever you to call them, what do you call him? The h colonizing hal and nice and colonizers colonizers. When the colonizers came, you know, they looked at these these people as savages, but they actually uh know how to live. How to live that is major and we as American African Americans, if you will, we we don't know how to do it. We know how to follow the trend, we know how to to walk their walk, the colonizers walk, but we don't know how to exist yet. We're still catching up to majorly. We still have post traumatic stress disorder. Well yeah, I mean carrying it and walking around with it. Oh yes, I mean even even the the different stages that we've gone through to um, you know, to to find and make some sort of sense of this life here and how to live it. And you know, at first thinking, oh, if we're represented in this society, then we'll be okay, right, and it's and maybe that desire to be represented here, it you know, has pulled us further away from that energy that we know to be true you know that that thing that's innate in us, that thing that's that's culturally that we brought with us, you know that that that desire to be represented there says oh, I have to find the best, the quote unquote best best according to the society we live in, which is based on we all know what. That's based on the best of the best of us. And it's like, we gotta shift what we think the best is. If we think the best is this thing, well kill ourselves trying to be it and still be accepted and still won't be accepted by the way. I still won't be accepted by the way. Um. One of our great local DJs here, miss Patty Jackson, she got on the radio on her show the other day and where he was earlier today and said something like, um, talking about Time magazine, the people have made the cover of Time about being the most influential people, and she said she thought maybe that it should have been all the people who had passed from co Fit m as being the most influential. And I thought that that was, um, you know, profound, because who we decide is influential, who we decide is you know, important to culture, pushing culture forward our society, it gets further and further away from people. Yeah, you know, the masses, those of us who you know are not able to be, you know, acknowledged in that way that centered around you know, that kind of excellence or whatever. That excellence looks like it's rough. It's rough out here. So we need time. I'm I'm working on dialect, coaching and things, getting ready for ready to play Mahellia Jackson. And she says, right before they have the dream speech. She says, Martin, tell him about the dream. Tell him about the dream, Madin, And and that's the point you gotta rest. There's so many ideas, brilliant ideas, storylines, melodies, all kinds of information and creativity comes through in your dreams. You're working so hard that your body just collapses. And then you get up and you do the same thing all over again. You work so hard, you grind so hard, and then you you're having issues wondering why your your head is clouded, or why you have writer's block. Lay your ass down for for spell if you will, you know you need it. That we obviously we're all in the same position, like we're all here agreeing with each other. You know which well, in in the in the in the spirit of disagreement or healthy debate, you know what what should be said when a person says, look, I can't I don't have time to rest. Rest, They don't eat, I rest, My children don't get cared for. I mean, there are those of rest has become know a habit of the privileged, you know what I'm saying, And so that time, time and rest, you know, your access to it is directed to your privilege in society. So what about those people? But don't you think it's both sides though. It's interesting though. It's like, yeah, there's that, there's that, But then there's also the super duper successful who explain, I don't rest. I'm always working. I wake up at four o'clock in the morning to make sure I'm looking at the stock market and doing this. So then there's also the flip side of people looking to them and going, if I want to achieve this, this is what I gotta do. It's just interesting. I mean, it's this is interesting and it's on both sides like that, like, yeah, I think it's really up to you. What is it that you need? Where we keep trying to follow, you know, what everybody else is following, just following the trend. What do you need? You need rest and lay your ass down and try to plan a schedule in a life for yourself where you can actually rest. You know. You know that the more children that you have, um the more likely you are to be exhausted, you know, the more you'll have to work or you know, the more you'll need some help. You know. Try to plan for what it is that you want in this life. Think about what it is you know, you'd like to get a nap. Then that's that takes a certain kind of life. You know, it may take some time to get there, but that's the goal, is to get there, get to the life that you want to live instead of you know, chasing chasing that first tour for me, who is jails got tour? I toured for two years. I got pneumonia m hm three times. You know, fever is a hundred and five. I did the late show with what's the guy with the long champion Jay Leno? I did the his show with a hundred and five fever and and promptly, uh so sick that after I got off, they're off of the camera. Promptly pete on myself and passed out like I was sick, sick not there's not a game, but trying to cap yeah, man, you know, trying to keep up. You know, I know, I know you're talking about and not for nothing. It's funny. Also, you know you think about sleeping. People don't talk about you know. I'm sitting here looking and reminding myself of all the benefits of sleep. When it comes to beauty, people who want to stay and for people want to live longer lives, it's like, uh, just you might wanna you might want to do that because if you're working hard and not getting the rest so you can live this fast life, it's gonna be a fast life and face going to drop right like right here, You're you're not girl, You're not missing like like little babies, you know, a little babies. You're trying to put them down and they keep looking waking up to see what they're gonna miss. Maybe you should miss that, whatever that is, you know, maybe you should come around so that a little bit later. My mother just say, you can't be at every party, right hey, you at every party? Go to the parties you're supposed to go to the ones that are meant for you, but some are not. You're gonna miss it, you can't be but don't you feel like it's But again, it just feels like in this age of like post COVID, it's hard to know when the rest because you're always at home, and so you feel like he's always if you're not doing something that's for your home, you could be working. These things are true, and then and then and then, of course there was a lot going around during the during this pandemic, and particularly in a social media space that was like, if you ain't started the LLC, if you ain't done such and such and such, and you didn't do what you didn't, you wasted this time. You know. Um And I feel like that's a good segue into a conversation about what constitutes quality time and in terms of what you invest your time in, I had um uh in terms of accomplishment. I've mentioned my mother earlier, and I was talking to my son in the same conversation about my mom, and I was like, you know, I put my mother to rest. She didn't own a home, she did not even own a car, she had a high school diploma, she had no formalized um extended education. She had never won any awards. She had you know, not even done the stuff that was in her heart, like as a professional or anything like that. She was an artist at heart. And it was amazing zing at her homegoing that she had such a personal impact on so many people's lives that it was a constant mind of let me tell you about your mother, let me tell you about what she did for me, let me tell you about how she affected my life. Let me tell you what a friend she was to me. And Da da da da da, and you wouldn't. It was amazing to see that, and it helped shift my perception about what it is to be successful in life and what it is, what it what it is to have um impact on the world, and how you spend your time. You know what I'm saying. She had not you know, she had not done any of the things that people say are the goals. You know. Yeah, sounds like sounds like no, no, it's just it's just interesting. I'm like, it sounds like something you would say about your mom, your grandmam. Like that's just the case. A lot of it's just interesting, You're right, Yeah, I mean, she wasn't any different than the next person in terms of you know, everybody's gonna have folks that love them, but it was that experience that kind of shifted that for me a little, you know, um, in terms of like how I spend my time for me during quarantine. I have listen, I've worked minimally um out of out of just the availability of work at first. But now a lot of what I'm doing, I feel is going to be indicative of how I live my life from this point on. That's is one thing that I've definitely learned from this situation is here here. Yeah, yeah, this has changed us, and I think, I mean, I hope that it's changed us for the better, you know, uh, just honestly, me being able to spend some more time with my kid just being home has been extraordinary. I liked that boy. I know I loved him. I knew I liked them, but I like that dude. That's a good dude. He's funny, he's cool. We always got some jokes comes with the serious conversations that I don't know where they're coming from. It didn't expect it, but I'm like, yes, you are awesome, this is this is good. You know, of we do know ten people. I I personally know ten people who have had COVID, and um, you know we got better from it. But no, I mean meaning no what nobody passed away. But man, when I tell you listening to their voices and knowing them how weak they were, and several of them wished for death, That's that's major. We're not eating right as a folk, We're not. We're not resting for us the way we need to individually. You know we're not. We're hustling and working and trying to survive. And I'm not dis in you in any way, shape or form. I want you to get what you want out of life, but this is your one body and your one life, and you know you might need to take several seats for a minute in order to accomplish what you want out of it. It's interesting, though, because on the flip side, because I feel like my life is more on the flip side of what y'all are saying, because while I understand the necessity of rest as a I'm gonna say as a creative or yet and still as a person who's kind of like gig to gig. If you are in a point in your career where you are working and hustling, then you are you feel like you meant you working harder, not only because you can right now because you're blessed enough to do it, But then there's also a factor of the current state of the economy of living in a world where you don't have pension, you don't know about your social security, and you're trying to figure out too. When I turned because I do want to be able to chill, it ain't gonna happen. I mean, ma' gonna say it ain't gonna happen. And maybe I'll write some big hit show or do something where there's a big load of money. But for most people who are living there under a hundred thousand dollar life, it's kind of like, and you, how am I going to be able to live the life I should be living at sixty something years old? You know, I look at that. I say that also coming from most of our parents who have jobs where they are have retired and they might have a pension, and they do have social security, and they are still yet struggling. So you're watching their struggle with the assistance that you ain't even going to have. And so I'm just saying that all the Sometimes that can be heavy, and while you understand that you need to be taken care of self, you also have to figure out how to work that in. It's just it's just it's I hear you on that. I hear you and that because I'm I mean, I I consider myself, you know, a gig work or two in that same vein. But I think, UM, like for me, I just for me, I just feel like this, um there is no bag. Me and my husband have this conversational. I'm like, for this is just my philosophy. My philosophy is there is no bag. I don't I'm not looking for the bag. I'm not trying to secure the bag for me. There is no bag, you know, there is no spoon, there is no bag me. It's like the my life has to move forward in such a way that's respectful of my day today. And that doesn't mean that you don't plan for the future. It just means that I just don't expect this massive thing to save me from working. So I have to work at a pace I'm comfortable with so that I can still do it when I'm sixty or seventy or eighty or that matter, um and think of my life in terms of how does it work for me, um in the long term. So everything I'm choosing to do now are things that I'm prepared to do when I'm in my seventies and eighties, Like if that, if need be, you know, if something else comes along along the way to make that that easier for me, then praise God. But for me, I just can't be focused on that bag because I personally just don't think there is one, and particularly for black people, it ain't because how many of us have had one generation secure the bag and two generations later, not even to one generation later, is gone, you know, And I just I've seen it happen within the same generation, particularly in this business that we are so and all this be smart with your money in the YadA YadA YadA. Yeah, some of that's true, but there's a lot of things there that can change that, and we're sitting in the middle of them, right, will be clear. You know, I know what things may appear to be with a lot of celebrity folks, but the reality is the majority of them, including myself, we do need to make money because you have you have no idea how many people I'm taking care of no clue and their lights need to be on, you know, and it is what it is. You have no idea with with those folks. So they might have the new car and it might look good, but it's probably alone. You know. They might have all the the accoutrement of jewelry and things like that, but the reality is it's probably not even something that they own at all. And I don't you know, sport a bunch of ships my cards from two thousand twelve. Um, I like, Oh Shirley, Oh Shirley, get me where I need to go? Okay, female, Yes that's my girl. Um. But I tried my best to put things in perspective. What matters most, What matters most, I need to make it. I need to know that my mom is straight, you know, if I happen to go untimely, you know, I need to know that. I need to know that Jet is set up and that the situation is set up, not for him to just not have to work, because I don't even believe in that. I don't believe that at all. You better earn your right, you better earn your way, you know, in this life, I had to I've been working since I was fourteen years old, okay, and paying bills since then. Okay, it does not stop. I just want you know, I just want you to know, everybody with a team, everybody with a team after their age in my house has a J O B girl. Oh yeah, and the we don't. But actually let me, let me give them some credit. Wasn't something that I had to make them do, you know? But I do believe in feeling confident obviously with you know, doing for yourself and everything. And I not respect everything you're saying, Joe in terms of like legacy and making sure that people are that your responsibilities and the people who are responsible for are cared for, particularly parents and children a percent, and I I do. I understand that, and I understand about creating safeguards for that, you know, that's my goal, by the way, to parents only child. Yeah, and I did that, I really And nobody saw this coming. You know, maybe something somebody out there did, but I I know I didn't see COVID coming. And that that bag that we're speaking of, that thing went blowing in the wind somewhere. That thing was apparently made a paper too, because one minute I had all it, all of the you know, the numbers written down and I knew what I was gonna be making and blah blah blah, and that that went out the window. And now there's you know, figuring out other ways to to sustain and to grow. I A, don't you glad that in the wake of that that there that you had the strength of what mattered in your life? Two then you know, curl back into you know what I mean? And I think that that's that's what happens to is that in this moment, is that people are like, do I have a place, a soft place to fall in a moment like this money? Yeah, when money might be funny, or I don't have the same my job. I don't have the bustle of my job to keep me busy, and I don't have all these different and things going on that are keeping my attention. Who am I in this moment? I can't move the way I want to move? And can we take that into this moment when it's no longer like it is right now? Because this is to show fas yes, hopefully eventually, I mean, the the goal is longevity. The goal is longevity. It's like it's like so many of us are living for this exact moment, you know, Um, trying to get that new car, get that new thing that puts you in a bind every month, you know, just making making your existence so much harder. How do I know? I got people, you know what I mean? I know people and I watched them do things like get a car. Note that's just weigh out of sorts. So when something like this there happens, there is no cushion to fall back on. Is we're getting back to learning how to live, not just exist for the day, for the week, to show people what to show people that you you got what you know, stuff, stuff that can be burned, stuff that can be lost, stuff that you know probably won't even be you know the thing you know two months from now. We're trying to encourage you, well, I'm going to speak for myself, trying to encourage you to live and living means or part of it anyway, Ums, thinking about what you want for yourself when you no longer are able to get out on this road or work them three jobs, or what is the goal and to work towards that goal. The goal is a comfortable long evity in my opinion, What what do you have to do now to do that. So if you're in your twenties, knuckle up, learn all you can get yourself. Some mentors find out you know what it is to to what success means to you. Figure that out. Then you start working smarter in your thirties and head towards those goals. By the time you turn forty, it'll all be different. It just that's why I told you there is no bag. It ain't there. I think that the bag is comfortable longevity, but just for me. But I like the idea of comfortable longevity as a goal and and I and I agree with that. However, I think, um, the whole the the bag imagery for me has just been problematic. We gotta change the question. Yeah, you gotta change the world because it is it is something that you're working towards. And I know I've always been working towards just being comfortable and not having that feeling in my heart. Hurry, wake up, you gotta do That's that. Don't need a comfortable longevity um mentor though. We need to find us a black woman that has achieved this so that she can help us to stay focused. Well, I'm have you guys seen Tony Morrison's documentary. Yes I have. I'm putting it on the last documentaries. If there is anybody who understood what comfortable longevity meant, and that's just something that popped up in my head during this conversation. But she knew what it meant. She worked exceptionally hard to get it. That woman decided when she was going to wake up and how she was going to work. She made sure that there was room and space and love for her children and these things, mentory ship for others, yes, and for herself. That's all those things, you guys having time to do that, Yes, that's all that. I'm sorry. I'm just glad you brought that up, because she really is. I forgot how much she is my hero. Beyond that she is, you know, a cannon in and of herself, but beyond that, just as a woman. So you don't have to go look forward. It's on Amazon. I just wouldn't like right now, okay, And I think it's also on on Netflix too. I went to see The Nice all right. I went to the Stances all like to sit I. When I watched that, I felt like, my God, that woman lived a life, woke up every morning to her lake, you know, but the lake was on the back end, right, But that's what we're talking about, yes, is that comfortable longevity and working while she was writing her book, you know, during that making sure the doors open so her children. She did what she had to do, but she made sure her children didn't feel alienated. I'm not going to tell you everything about the documentary, but I would really really love for all of your listeners, male and female, young and old, to pay attention to the life of Tony Morrison. Brilliant writer, beautiful, exceptional woman who took very little ship from this world and made it better. And that is that is living. How do you eat an elephant? One by it tide? Hey, y'all, it's ease again. A producer on the show Why Joe and Aga talked about how we can survive in the US, a country that often values grinding over health and Bernie Out over sleep. For a take on how we can use our personal stories to thrive, Aga recommends the book In the Wake on Blackness and Being by Christina Sharp. You can also check out the documentary they mentioned Tony Morrison, The Pieces I Am wherever. It might be available on streaming services right now. And another shout out to the Knap Ministry, an organization of founded by Tricia Hersey that believes in rest as a form of resistance. As always, I'll leave links in the episode description. Thank you so much for listening, everybody, Thank you for listening to Jill Scott Presents Jay dot Ill the podcast. This podcast is hosted by Jill Scott, Laa st Clair and Adre Gayden Danceler. Its executive producers are Jill Scott, Seawan j and Brian Calhoun. It's produced by Layas st Clair and me Eve Steph Cooke. The editing and sound design for this episode we're done by Taylor Chaquin. I just wanted to add in uh in to Patti Jackson and in Time Magazine's defense, they did a cover of almost two hundred thousand uh COVID up folks who have passed from COVID on their March issue makes note of that. J dot Ill is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.