F*** an Urgent Care

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Jay Dot in a production of I Heart Radio. Hey Hey, now, party people, this is Jay dot Ilga Podcast. And I'm here with my sister friends. Excuse me, We've already been talking about We've already been talking, so you know, I'm trying to gather my ship, trying to gather myself here. I'm here with Aga Graydon Danceler and Alaiah Saint Clair. Yeah, and we've already been talking. We've already been here. We're talking today about healthcare, particularly for women. Man, Okay, let me put it to you like this. I'm gonna tell you a brief story. Okay, years ago, my mother must have been she was twenty, no, she was nineteen. She was nineteen years old, and she had gone to a clinic around the way, like most of us, you know, if you live in the hood, you go to the clinic because that's you know, one what you can afford, and too, because they're around, you know, they're in the neighborhood. So my mother goes to a clinic and she's having an exam done and she's wondering why her cycle is so random. They told her that she can't have children, she won't be able to have children and that she should have a hysterectomy because it's really no point. So, you know, she she shed her tears, and you know it's tough because she always wanted to be a mother and she decided to not do it. She was like, I'm you know she she just says she wasn't gonna do it. Ato she gave birth to me. Now, obviously, many years later, I have a very similar situation. My cycle disappeared when I turned four teen. I got it when I was fourteen, but it disappeared and I was fifteen. I don't know. I'm a I'm a whole unicorns. Sometimes I feel like I had prayed a prayer. I asked God to take away my cycle because it was too painful. Nobody could walk across the floor. It was very, very painful, very heavy flow, and I prayed. I asked God to take it away and bring it back when he was ready for me to have a child. Years go by, my cycle has disappeared. UM nineteen years old with no cycle at all, And my my friends were like, that's weird. Don't you think that's weird. Don't you think you should see about that? Well, I decided to go to play parenthood and asked them, you know what am I supposed to do? So they look and they're like, well, everything looks healthy. But you know, if you don't have a cycle, then you're not ovulating. If you're not ovulating, you're not going to have children, and you should get a HYS direct to me. I decided not to, and at thirty eight, I gave birth to my son. What I'm saying, if it's not clear enough, I do not trust the system when it comes to taking care of minority women. I'm very, very exceptionally cautious when it comes to going to clinics. I definitely know that everybody deserves to have health care, and clinics are I think they having it. I mean, what what can I say? My mother and myself, we're both supposed to have or quote unquote supposed to have HYS directed me. Well, not for nothing, Jil. It's interesting. And first talking about your mom because I think that there was a period in time where doctors tried hard and I know that happened to you as well, but even more so and you're mom's time, because I think I told you that they try to take my mom's ovaries it's the same thing. But and that's something that I wonder we never go back on and the women who actually did listen to their doctors and U, I mean, we have a very disturbing history in the world we live in, not just in America, but in the world we live in the history of the medical field. Come on that when it comes to women's bodies, and particularly black women's bodies, that there is a you know ingrained disrespect, and really it goes beyond disrespect, it's disregard as even being a human. You know that we have been experimented on, we have been you know, tossed aside in many instances. I don't know that it is an outrageous thing to say that a black woman has never received the proper care with than this medical industry, that the care that she deserves, or that we deserve as a as a group. There are obviously some instances where people have good doctors or people have good relationships with different doctors, but I just mean, as a group, we're just not We're not considered at all, even down to research, even to how we are researched and the things in the information that we know about black women. We have to get to this point where we're even asking and studying black women. There's money, because money approved for studies that are specifically about our health. It's fairly new. That is very new, Yeah, because I'm like, they just started to acknowledge that there are differences. Yeah, I mean studies that are done that are not about exploitation exactly. Like, can we get again, goddamn pure to this damn fabroids. I just don't understand. I know, but I do know that it affects women of color more than anybody else. But here's an interesting fact. I was on Instagram and Tank from Tanking the Bangers. She put up a really interesting graphic and she said that black patients on on not black patients. It says approximately eighty percent of every person with a uterus will have five boys every person with a uterus. Yep, it's just my question is damn then, my question is why is there such a difference in women are colored? And also because we we have it affects us worse because we have other health concerns that are exacerbated by racism and fire boys is from what I hear, it is all can be exacerbated by things like stress, like diet, sugar and sugar, all things that are mainstays within black women's diets, things that they have access to. Because obviously, if poverty is an issue, then having quality food is an issue, and if poverty is an initial mental health and stress is an issue. So and not saying that all whom are impoverished, We're just talking about, you know, doubling down on some of the issues that that affects, you know, us across the board. But if you think about it, even with Kamala Harris talking about that that's an issue that's really important to her and that to make that appoints in that's unbelievable. There's a public health crisis. The people that are intended to carry on to the next generation are in crisis. Major crisis, major crisis. How hard it can be just to see a ganecologist in general, to make that appointment and they tell you, okay, it's February, you will see you in uh June seventeenth. So in the meantime, in the lean time, you know you're feeling a pain in your lower abdomen. You don't know what's going on, you don't know why your sex is painful. You don't know why your your psychle is so heavy and it keeps coming back. You know, what do you do? You end up going to an emergency room in COVID America, Lord Blush, And not to mention that people don't believe it's when we say we're in pain. How about that? How about that? And the lash back for Serena Williams stating that she almost died. She's telling you something. She's telling you something's wrong based on a pre existing come on pre existing condition. So it's not even like there's no record of this. It's not like these people don't have her medical records. Like. That's the part that is infuriating, infuriating, And why why would we lie? Again? They say three or four times more likely to die from pregnancy we are in white women and childbirth. That's according to the American Heart Association. Why would anybody lie about pain? Well, they don't think we experienced pain the same. I think we can take more pain strong. You know, we just used to squat out in the cotton fields and just give birth her kids and my kids, yes, yes, ma'am, well I breastfeed your baby and mine and too, Yes, my first child was born in a hospital. But after after our first child, I shifted from hospital birthing to home birthing. And you know, I actually got a lot of shit about that. What I did. I got a lot of pushback about that, saying that it wasn't safe, that it was backward, that it was Um, I would you know that I should be in a hospital. I will never forget. Tom Joyner totally came from my neck. Mm hmm, what please. I don't remember his exact words, but I came on his show to talk about home birthing, and you know, and he just kind of suggested that it was unsafe and outdated. And I kindly said, well, your grandma was probably born like that at home. And what he said, and your mama too, probably What did this? Omega so Tuskey graduate? What did he say to that? Um? You know, they just kind of laughed and giggled. But I felt that I was being made fun of. And now you fast forward to now and this information comes out about black women and childbirth and home birthing and particularly with midwives or of color has become a much safer option for black women. And to think that I was be rated on public radio, how many years ago was that. I think it was like maybe sixteen seventeen years ago. But what's your new? And I ain't gonna say new, because you always been a conscious individual. But but I would say with you very well. And it's funny to me because it just sounds like as black people sometimes we just don't know ourselves so well that we end up in this thing of like not knowing and then laughing when it comes from us in the first place, in our history and our heritage. And you know, so I look at Tom and I'm like, wow, here you are an informer somewhat of an educator for some and you're laughing at your history and your heritage. And what you know too that you're saying is correct is somebody else's and what they taught to you. And it's just sometimes black I just man, I love my people. I mean, and it's much respect of Tom join Yeah, it's not just him, it's just But the point is the point is that, yes, you're absolutely right. We we forget what's ours so so thoroughly that when we see it presented back to us, we think it's for it and we make fun of it. We recognize that. So it's like that whole thing is. It's kind of a mind blower, you know what I mean. But like I said to to think now down the road, fifteen sixteen years down the road, that now we're having a conversation, we're just having a conversation about how dangerous it is for a black woman to give birth in a hospital. M m m m mmmmmmm. You know, and to remember that I was treated like I was some backwater dummy, all kinds of names for real, for real. Well, honestly, it was a little bit let me just say this mid Winfrey, and we don't have to stay on this subject, but mid Winfrey at that time was kind of a thing that was mostly being done by white women who had the means because you had to pay out of pocket for it. Wow. So by the time Erica started talking about this, well you know, I was babies down the road by that time. And I mean she tried to talking about it publicly, you know. And so at that time, amongst that particular group, people who will have wealth, entertainment industry people would rather have a baby at home and could they could afford it. But see now you're talking about we maybe know a little bit better, but it's still not accessible. So a choice that's even better for you is still not accessible. At the end of the day, the bottom line is that black women do not have healthy choices, and when they do have healthy choices, it's not accessible to Let me ask your question, do you feel better about seeing a black guy incologist? Um, I'm more on male and female mm hmm hmm. Maybe now because of my Maybe now I would make that choice. But in the past, I always had really attentive because I've had some really good white hippie women and quote unquote obstetricians. Although I have never had an obstetrician, I've always had a midwife. Every midwife that ever gave birth to any of my children was a white woman. I had never had a black mid wife. In fact, to this day, there's only one certified black midwife in the city to Philadelphia. I see Mohammed. She's the only one. Okay, okay, ladies, ladies, ladies. That means that if you are a nurse, if you assist births in the hospital, there is there is a role for you. There is a role for you. What I understood I had a duela, and what I understood as what a Duela does. Is the doula takes specific care of the mother during the birth. Yeah, And because everything and everybody else is very very focused on the child. And that's not a that's not a problem. But somebody has to take care of you. Somebody has to pay attention to the color of your skin. That you may be losing blood and everybody's noticing you may be dehydrated, and nobody's paying attention you know you you may be experiencing some pain that it's not a part of the labor. So the doula takes care of the mother and the midwife takes care of the child. Thank you, Jill. But I will say, if your wife is worth her soul, she has an assistant. Yeah, and that assistant or multiple assistants, Yes, And those those women do oftentime play those roles as well, play a very doula like role as well. There is a position for you, ladies, you nurses. You are necessary and needed. I actually feel a lot better having a black kindecologist. I don't know, maybe it's when you start feeling that way after I was told to have a hysterectory right right, right, right exactly right, of course, after then I was like, wait a minute. And and then to well, really to hear from my mother have somebody say the same thing to her around the same time, like clearly they were wrong. And you know what, I definitely don't want a white male now. I definitely done because the white man was the one that told me to go off and have me a baby by myself. And just yeah. And also I was gonna say too to a lot of women who even if you don't have children, I look now for midwives or to be my guy. No, because right, I was gonna say that for years in my early part of giving birth. My my midwife gave me my quote unquote, well woman visits, yeah, because they have a different temperament. And I remember, I remember the first time I ever went to one, she looked at me and she said to me, she was like, huh have you been sexually a song too before? And I was like yeah, I was like how do you know that? And she was like, I can tell by the way your legs tend to always fall back together. She was like you m M. And from that moment on, I was like, oh, I wanna yeah, I want I wanna man wife And so yeah, yeah, because they're perfectly capable of doing it. But let me let me throw this out here, so do we understand, like, how can you give you know, how systemic this thing goes? Okay, And I can only speak on the state of Pennsylvania. So at one point, this was a while ago, so it may have changed, but I doubt it. So there was a time when I was using a certified nurse midwife, which is basically a person who is also a registered nurse as well, Like that's the only difference. And what happened was she in order for her to conduct business, she had to pay very high malpractice insurance. So in order to afford the malpractice insurance, she had to partner with a doctor. Now, mind you, the only way you can partner with a doctor to share that expense is if you are a certified nurse. There we go. Now, there are many experts lay midwives or midwives who are not nurses but are certified midwives. So there's lay midwife, and then there are certified midwives who have gone to school for midwifery and they have certification. Those women, if they're not able to partner with the doctor, the cost of operation is so high that it affects the quality of care because then they have to have more patients. So some of the reasons why a person would go to a midwife, they can't even offer that because they have to have so many patients just to meet the expense of existing in business. And that's an and a lot of really good midwives. We lost a lot of good midwives in Pennsylvania into that not being operating, just operating costs. I will say I do like that kind of age, to be honest, I did like the fact that my midwife was also a nurse practitioner or whatever as they should be in my but I know it's extra actually yeah, but why, why exactly do we honor that more? Why do we believe that that means you know, how many You're right, he's a doctor, an actual doctor told y'all to have his director a doctor, the person with the education. I'm sorry for me. It's it's about knowledge, experience, and quality of care. When you're pregnant, you're constantly thinking about what can go wrong, you know, and you're you're trying to cover all your bases. So god forbid, you have a midwife and the baby doesn't make it, or the woman the mother doesn't make But you know that midwives actually have a lower infant mortality rate. Yes, I do. And so it's just I think we definitely have reason to be concerned when we're pregnant anything. For sure. I think if most people are trying to cover their basis, so they're going to the place where they think their basis are covered. But nonetheless, like you said, midwifery has a lower mortality rate, I would say I was there too, so I'm not even going to the front. When I got pregnant for the first time, the first time I heard the word midwife, I was like, what was that? Doula? I was like, what was that that? What? What do they do? But the first time that my midwife suggested home birth, I was like, huh. I just thought it was gonna be really messy. And I was like, I got enough going on, you know. Yeah, there were a couple of things that concerned me. One I did not want to have about movement while I was getting first so Asian did. And as you heard about these things, yes that happens. Yes, I was in labor for thirty six hours I'm talking about. So I got up and I went to the battle. Everybody was like, what are you doing. I'm like, I'm I'm not a tooilet okay, or in the bushes if necessary. But you know, luckily that has not been my route. I'm just saying that that was really important to me, that I was not that no, got it, got it, got it. Yeah, I mean, you know that's something. Some things are just a fact of the act. You know what I'm saying. You're giving birth. There's a lot of concerns and worries, you know about when when you're pregnant. There's a lot of worries. So I understand why people would want to see a doctor in a hospital. I'm just saying to please look at all of your options in whatever city you're in. And I mean everyone is not a good candidate for every side manner. What do I like? A good matters, It matters. But I want to I want to add that these women aren't just nice people who have good bedside men. And these are women who are learning. They're learning, they're educated, they're trained what to do. Huh. It's take eight years to become a certified kind of nurse, the CNM. You get to get need you, we all need you. And a nursing experience and one year a nursing experience. It's a lot. It is a lot, but it's it's it's a it's a treasure. You as a duela, as a midwife, you are a treasure to a lot of women. And it's so crazy to me how witch crash has just really played a parts. Craft has played a real part in the absence of health for folks. For people. If you know about herbs, which we're gonna kill you. If you know birth, you're a witch, We're gonna kill you. Like that was at this point in the beginning, like you know what, we forget who we are? How about that as black people. Jed asked me if aunt Erica was a witch. I said, yes, she is. He said, well, it's Nanna, you're witch. I said, yes, it's a mummy. Are you with I said yes, it was was blue Baby with you. Yes, yes, I am shared bitch. I'm just joking. That used to be my mother's girl. I had to watch that tonight. I love that. I haven't seen it in years, but it was my mother's favorite. But yeah, absolutely, they put such a negative connotation on the word, or created a word to sound evil or or dark and told it to ever who No, this is just someone who understands the human body, understands herbs and nature. You know, I need more of that and not less. Huh, I said, how else do you get magic? But I wishes, yeah, more conversation after the break. I think we have kind of entered into a season where we're embracing you know, holistic care, more herbs, Chris, diet crystals, all of these oil, essential oils, all kinds of different things to address our health, so to keep us out of the system, and that goes into that old school feared and we all like, well, black people hate going to the doctor. Black men definitely don't like going to the doctor. Take some to us, and y'all know what I'm concerned about, though, I think gonna lie. I'm concerned about how women, and particularly Black women are being treated under these COVID conditions, Like when they go in with COVID, when I'm having nobody to to advocate for you, and I always think about my mom. Nobody has advocate. When my mother was ill, different times she was sick, I was her advocate, My sister was her advocate. So it's like they knew when they came on that floor. They knew who Susan grading was, they knew who her daughters were, they knew what to do and what not to do, and when things didn't get done, then it was like a storm, you feel me. So I do wonder how everyone really, But you know, I always particularly have a place in my heart for Black women and our elders in these situations, whether they either have COVID or if they are just in hospitals alone because they can no longer have their advocates in and out with them under these conditions, I wonder about that and the quality of the care that they're getting. I don't wonder about it Asia, because it is that is what it is. I just I lost the aunt that way during COVID this year, Like to my I swear, we still don't know how she's passed, and she passed alone, even though she got like grand mags like, I hate to say this to you, but whatever your fears they are, they are real. And it's gonna be a lot of people I know, especially Black women, but it's gonna be a lot of people this year that we lost and we do not really know why. I remember when people and the hood we're dying from pneumonia. Nobody wanted to say it's h V. That was a big thing. Mm hmm, that was well, yeah, well the healthcare around those early victims of HIV and AIDS was horrible, was absolutely horrible. I mean just the careless want carelessness. Not not to say that they weren't doing what they were supposed to be doing because nobody knew, and that everybody was trying to figure it out, you know, but how biased people were because of HIV, How how biased the health care system was, how poorly the gay man came into the hospital, how disrespected you're coming for help. So where are the advocates for sick people? That is a business, that is a company, that is something. If you're out here and you're looking two, I'm gonna tell you don't look to make money, look to do good money or show up. What what is the need? What do people need? We need advocates. We need to be able to call somewhere sometime and say they're telling me that they want me to have it his directed me and I'm scared or this is something clearly that is irreversible. Who do I talk to my aunt? Talked me out of it. I mean, I wasn't. I wasn't she I wasn't gonna do it because those are my parts. And I was like, I just have to deal with my parts. But my aunt was like, God told me you're gonna have a healthy, fat, five baby boy. And I was like crazy. You know, I remember thinking, oh, this crazy woman. But ten years later though, ten years later, she was like, she just said, you are. My mother has never been wrong about the sex of a child. Ever. If a woman is practant, my mother will make you sound stand up, walk over there and go back the go sit down, stand back up. And she has never been wrong in the history of my life. She's all, that's a boy. Oh that's a girl. I mean, she's got a shame been wrong once. Yeah. I like the witches. I'm for the witches. I'm down for the witches too, because I feel like that's our biggest tool in the toolbox as it goes moving forward. Because like you know, we talked a lot about childbirth, but there's so many things that affect black women disproportionately that just put us such risk, you know, whether it's heart disease, or it's diabetes or it's you know, I don't know how blood pressure, you know, all these different things that we're dealing with. It's it's that that that sisterhood, that motherhood, that group of women that we're exchanging information. I ain't gonna out of you. I've gotten most of my information about my health and wellness through the network of women in my life, through the network of black women I like I call I will call them before I call my doctor. Hey, girl, like, my side is hurt right up underneath my left titty, Like has that ever happened to you? Yeah? Girl, that ain't nothing. Girl, you're gonna get down in the baby pose or what that? What's that thing that you'all that you do. Get down in the baby pose, put your chest, you know, put your needs to your chest or something like that. Girl, that's gas or that's this Your woman friends will tell you, girl, go to the doctor. Like yeah, I'm like, well, I'm taking supping. Go to the doctor. So there's you know, to me, I feel like we're out here fighting this fight together, trying to say, keep each other healthy, keep each other alive. But you know, there's always more work to do, there's always more room. We need more We need more. We need more attention, more research. We need more black doctors we meet, need more black midwives. We need more respect for the witches. They need more respect with the healthcare industry. About the double witches, right, like the ones that are in the healthcare industry doing double time. Like Dr Frederick Burton in Philadelphia is uh, guess what you called a warlock. Yeah, he's an m D. He's an m D medicine man um He's an m D. But he also is heavily a weaken He's heavily into herbs and holistic ways of taking care of yourself. Now, you're gonna take a lot of vitamins, but apparently this is what the body needs. We need a lot of nutrients and healthy alive foods. Now, you might be saying, hey, Jill, you know, ain't you overweight? Yes, darling, But I'm working. I'm working towards it, towards being more and more healthy. I would like to live as long as my grandmother, if not past that, and even in that, I don't want to suffer. And what I'm learning as I grow, what I'm learning is this. We were talking a little earlier about a neural muscular re educator. I had three of them in my life. They're not exactly mostly it's you know, word of mouth how you find one. But they are people who, yes they're massus. That is a necessary thing. I don't I don't want you to say, oh, that's a luxury. No. Moving the fluid around in the body is a necessary thing. Moving the tendons, paying attention to your your muscles is very very important. Fluid and mucus are a big problem in the human body. M m milk. Anyway, y'all know we're not willing tolerant that stuff, right or or meat for that man, I'm gonna go back to Dr Burton again, Frederick Burton in Philadelphia, when he takes your blood. Having a holistic doctor is really the goal in my opinion. This is this is what I do know. When they take blood at a regular doctor's office, they take blood and they're looking for specific things. This kind of doctor, a holistic doctor, looks averything. Gag. My mother was bitten the face by a dog when she was six years old. She went to see a holistic doctor in Philadelphia. It was years ago. She must have been in her early fifties. She still had rabies. The medicines are too suppressed, not to heal, not to redirect, they are too suppressed, so in her stomach and all of that other stuff. But he asked her, have you ever been bitten by a dog? She said, yah, when I was a child, she was still carrying rabies, which means that she also had rabies when she was carrying me. Yeagg So how does that affect you? I don't know. Let's get me mad enough, we'll see. It might be a very small trace. But the point is it still there? That's the player, The point is it still there. I had to deal with anger very very earlier, very early. Don't call her, not call me you want to. I'm okay, I'm all right. So I know that this time has been really hard for us, with COVID and separating ourselves and all of it. It is super important to pay attention to your health just cause, and as a woman, you have to pay so much attention to how your body is moving and flowing, how this cycle is. Write it down. Pay attention to your body. If you have a if you have a smell or itch or anything that is not normal to you, do not ignore it. If you have a pain in your in your abdomen, if you have a pain anywhere, don't ignore yourself. Your body is trying to communicate with you. And it's super important because it doesn't seem like the rest of this world is paying attention to us. You know, talk to your mother, talk to your grandmother. Talked to an elder woman who's experienced, you know, her body for a long time, and pay attention. Reread up on some vitamins. Try it. Maybe you are apple cider vinegar person, you know, and help with that blood flow. He give it a shot. Maybe see mass works. But you maybe have a clear up skin. Maybe maybe it is your silver for you. Try some acal water. Try hey, hey, here we go. Give it all a shot. Give it a shot. Find people that you can trust. And if it doesn't feel where, I go to somebody else and keep on trying. You might have to travel a little bit further. And I know that's a pain in the ass, but I don't trust the clinics. I would like to. And that was getting worse because you know, you have you know cares, which you know big business. Okay, let me tell you about urgent care. Okay, come on, here we go. Listen to this ship here, y'all. I was itching. I could not figure it out. I said, oh, this must be a yeast infection. Okay, So I go and get the stuff from the store and I do what I'm supposed to do. I eat the yoga, I drink the crampberry. Thank you for saying the yogurt, because it doesn't make a difference, right, But it's it's not. It's not. I don't know what's going on. And if you've ever had an itch that just really really itches, you will scratch the skin off for yourself. You will make them draw. It will be a thing. Listen, come on, now we're talking. Let's talk care because I can't stop it and I don't understand what's going on. And they tell me. The lady looks and she says, you have herpies. I said, uh, what do you mean. Who waits to be this old and it's grown to get herbies? What are you talking about? She was like, well, you know, that's what it looks like to me. And I was like, oh my god, I can't believe this. I believe what she said. I got the little blue pills and I took them. I took them for over six eight months mental mental trauma distress. This is something that will never go away. I finally find a black guy in colleges where I was. At first I could not find could not find it. Went I went to see her, checked me out. I told her that I had herpes. She was like, okay, do you need another prescription for the blue pills because they're supposed to take the symptoms or whatever. Way, I'm just inside going crazy but trying to still exist. What do you do? You have to keep moving on anyway? I come back. I got the same itch. I said, all you know, I think I'm having an outbreak. What do I know? She says, this just don't look like herbies. I said, well, the lady, you know, when I went to see the other doctors, they said that's what I had. And she was like, let me take blood. Oh take blood. So she takes my blood and she said, uh, girl, you don't you don't have her pies. I said, what what do I have? I have candida? Oh, which is kind of like, but mind you, I took those pills only ready put that in your body, taking those pills every trying to be responsible, all right, So that that that that is big enough. Time passes. My mother wakes up and she's got a sword on her lips. She goes to urgent care because it hurts, it's painful, ugly. She's like, what is this? They tell her she has herpies. They give her the blue pills. She takes the blue pills. She's telling me all about it, and I said, Mom, I think you need to go see your doctor. Guess what it was, ladies a spider mite. So I just want I have a friend who when while she happened, she always say fire bird, do you understand me? So? Because and what she means by fire burn is I'm thinner set all this ship? Do you understand me? All of this is going up and smoke? You understand what I'm saying, girl, bid is not in ash, No, it's it's best up. But can we just also admit that? And I'm not I'm not saying that. You don't even remember who I saw at the clinic? Who love, I don't know who it was at the urgent care. But down the lessons, the other lessons. Don't ever let nobody look at you and tell you got herpies? Take blood. Take you know I didn't know, no better not get it the understand but like, don't just look at me and tell me I got herpies? Can? I think it looks like I'm gonna tell y'all this much and I'm not playing around. Listen, play play with me, Play with a blue pill, ash as you hear me, show fire by fire, Ash, get a second opinion, go see somebody else. Maybe the clinic is good for the moment. The urgent care is good for the moment, so that you can feel, I don't know, some kind of peace of mind or at least some understanding of what's going on. But do not take that, Do not take that as the word as the finale word. You must see the kids, follow up the kids, follow up search, Yeah, follow up research, don't take you know, it's like you said, second opinion. You know, take your health seriously. That that's the bottom line. Take your health seriously. Be your own advocate. Make sure that you are looking into things. You know. We are all socialized to believe doctors this is there's no shame in it. We all have done it at some point. It's a practice. It's a practice. Practice. While saying AGA in medicine is a practice, they're practicing medicine right, Well, I would say, be careful practicing on me, because you hear me, burn fire, burn fire, you hear me, m M. As long as we're clear that, as long as we're miss y'all, I missed you too. A little big clinic wants to ask them birke control pills. She asked me how old it was. I was like thirty two. She was like, I think you should take some prenatal films. I'm just adding to you for you, Jill, just the last time. You should see our faces. She was like, you black. You ain't got no kids, right right? Right? Who says that? Who come out of them? Yes? Oh God, I have to have a seiy moment. Dear God, Dear God, Please don't let me come across no doctors, no nurses, no health professionals, in which that would tell me that I have things that I don't suggest, things that they shouldn't suggest, say things to me that they know are sensitive and wrong, be racist, and believe that I have no pain. Please God give me the strength to advocate for myself. Lord, Please God, let these people understand that I'm not to be played with, and that if I have to turn into the person that I don't want to turn into. Many will suffer the Lord. I'm a peaceful person and much like my home girl, could you, I don't want to go to jail. I thank you for your love and support. Amen. More conversation after the break coming up next on the show What's on Your Heart an occasional segment where we're check in with people we respect about how they're really feeling. Holl on, y'all. I think that's somebody calling. That must mean it's term for what's hot? Hello, Hi, Hi, Who is this? It's Michell So his sister wife, My sister wife from the show First Wives Club on v ET somebody plus plus v ET plus size. It is such a pleasure to get this phone called, Ladies and gentlemen. This is a comedian. She is an actreast, She is a mother of two, and she is an author as well. Um, Miss Thing has been working all over this place. She surprises me all the time with how much and what a work ethic that she has. I'm always impressed. Got darn baby, are you tired? Yeah? You know, I really haven't slept in six years anyway, So this is just fun. Hi bo Hi, listen, we have one question for you. Watch on your heart. Oh my goodness. Well, now that I've taken my husband's dick off my heart, this is what's on my heart. Why would you take your husband's digger off your heart? Because I need a minute to breathe. Well, you know how like you have sex with someone that's so good, it really feels like they just put their dick on your heart. Yeah, bless up, bless up. But now that my twins are turning to and we are going back to set for a season two, the number two feels like it's important, right, And so a thing that happens when you work with a whole new crew is you're showing pictures of your kids and they're like, oh, what kind of pregnancy was it? And since I had a surrogate, I'm like expressive. And so I'm learning that I have to retell this whole story again of this really painful, traumatic time in my life that was so high stressful, but like in a short elevator conversation to keep it moving. So the only way I could really do that is being over the mountain of Okay, I'm so comfortable talking about this painful experience because the kids are here and even getting into IVF and the surrogacy of it all. And people don't know anything about their bodies until something goes wrong with it, much like their car. So this is what's on my heart and my mind. Basically us just making ourselves aware that very normal things to us can happen in a very different way, like IVF and getting pregnant and having a beautiful walking angel on earth facilitate your kids for you? Oh did I answer the question so much? So much to put in nowhere to put it, you know what I mean? But you have put it. You put it in your book. I did. Why did I write a book? I can't even finish a book that's just wild. So my book is called Survival of the Thickest in a small minded world out. Yeah, I realized doing standard for eighteen years, I know how to be funny and I know how to tickle people. But now that you have this platform and people's attention, how do we just get back to kindness and making people feel good? You know? And so I was podcasting, you know, doing other podcasts and storytelling and doing all these stories that didn't fit into a stand up routine, and then people it really resonated with them. You know. It was the cancer survivor at twenty three that had to freeze her eggs and then go down the circusy route. It was the gay couple in Europe that's like, we need a surrocate. I understand your journey. It was like the thick girls who their parents are telling them if you just lost weight, may you'd be able to get pregnant. It's like everybody's coming at you like their doctor filling doctor oz. And it's like, but how do you take care of yourself and still stick up for yourself? So after talking about it on stage a little bit, I'm like, okay, we can. We can write this down and share your stories. And then it just turned into like, well ship, how did I come to owning my sexuality? You know, because I grew up so Catholic. My uncle's the archbishop of Jamaica, so it was always church all the time, and it was straightening my hair and covering my freckles, and don't talk too loud, don't laugh so loud, don't stick your chest out. If someone looked in my direction, it was my fault. Cover your shoulders in church. It was like all these rules and I'm like, but how do I color outside the lines? Because that's what I feel like I need to do. Going down the memory lane of how I came to owning my sexuality. I felt like it was important for young people who I feel like they always have to apologize for wondering what they want. So at the end of it, I really hope people obviously laugh because it will be funny. But my whole thing is education through love. I'm not gonna judge you for not knowing, just like I don't want you to judge me for not knowing what you've been through. But can we just talk about it like it's a big Can the world just be a big, gass dinner party where people are just like, you know what, something similar happened to me? You know what? That is so crazy me too, because we definitely have more in common than not to. So you got twins, Yes, I got some twins too. I know you haven't slept in a long time, ma'am. Oh how old are your twins? They're gonna be thirteen in a couple of days. Wow, congulations and you're still smiling in this moment. I'm sorry you know, Michelle just said earlier to how you gotta tell your story real quick. As Asia is telling you about her twins, I'm thinking, in my mind, when it's Asia gonna tell her that she got four more to add to these two, and that ain't nothing happened twins or something. But it's all relative, I think. I think. I think if you experience a child, I just say it's it's all the same struggle, to be honest. I mean, having six kids has a specific kind of struggle, but I think all mothering has the same ship if you really yeah, yeah, I really think it's all. But if you get two infants at once, there are just some conversations you just can't have unless you had two infants at one time. I'm really trying to, you know, not act like it's like I'm special. But when my friends complain about the one, I'm like, you can you can go, you can leave the room, Like when that one's sleeping is a whole other one. So, you know, after the first year, I was like, when does it stop feeling like I'm just working in a factory? You know that scene and I love Lucy where she's like a chocolate coming off of the conveyor belt. She's like, yeah, but now that their their personalities are coming out. But like when they start talking, because they can't say words, but they have whole ass opinions. I'm like, how, how is it what you want to And Michelle's you know, she's going to share this, can't wait, going to share this, And she's been sharing this and again she has a book out, The Survival of the Thickest. Yeah, Mary Thickmas. We're very similar in one, well, lots of ways, but one in particular. I didn't think that I could have children, and I I resigned myself to that. I was like, Okay, I can't have kids. I'll just, you know, try to date somebody with kids so I get a chance to to mother. And I was at peace with that, and then surprise, surprise, I got pregnant. Michelle worked on pregnancy for quite a long time, about five years of IVF. That's right, uh, in tro venous fertility, intro intro vitro. Yeah, in vitro fertilization. Okay, yeah, five years, five whole years. And this is when I learned that health care is truly misogynistic and that when you're a woman it feels like you were born with a pre existing condition already because you're a female. Because God forbid that you get pregnant, and you don't want to. God forbid that you're of a certain age and you can't get pregnant. Everything feels like you're being punished. And so we had to pay out of pocket. And you know, my husband's a photographer, I'm a comedian. We're not rich. We're just trying to use our money wisely, and so we would just drop ten k here, ten k there. On hormones. You know, you have to pump yourself up like a produced chicken to uh sort of make sure that your body has to feel like it's pregnant before you get pregnant. And you know, you think about it like, you know, you get an egg every month when you get your period, and you feel bloated. One month, I think I collected eighteen eggs, So picture eighteen eggs instead of the one. It felt like I was three months pregnant but no baby, and all the emotions of all the stuff that comes with being pregnant. And so because I'm Jamaican and Haitian, because my family is so big, I was like, oh, man, this will be nothing, you know. And then there was like that shame in the Caribbean community of what did you do wrong that you need this help? And basically I need the help because I have a benign brain tumor um opportunitary and it's called for latinoma. It's not common, but it's not not common. Sometimes it goes away. Sometimes you need surgery. Sometimes you can just take medication like me and Mantera and get annual MRI s and stuff and so yeah, all that stuff. It's like the blaming of it all is just the victim blaming of it all is just gross and it's exhausting, quite frankly. So that was a part of it. Then actually going through the actual ib F part of it, going to the doctor three times a week, spreading for a SONOGRAMMA, PAP, SMIR, getting your blood drawn. Like the emotional and physical toll it takes is not something that I could even explain in two sentences or less. Three times a week were um, three times a week you have to go because they want to make sure you're not gonna be octomom And I think I started around UM thirty something, maybe thirty five. Every time you have every time, Yes, every time time. You were already considered um what do they call? Yeah? Yes, and so at three yeah, So was there anything that you were doing or that was suggested to you about how you could support yourself emotionally during that time? Did you go to therapy? Did you like? What were some of the things that well, that's the thing, like you know, old school Kerubean people are like therapy, what's that? And so No, I didn't go to therapy because I was already paying out a pocket for this other treatment and so I try to do like the honor system, holistic situation and stuff, but it for like raiky and acupuncture and you know, sliding scale type situation. And if even felt weird not having anyone to talk to about it, because you know, my friends who had kids didn't have to it happened naturally, and my other crew they don't want kids or they're not ready for it. And so I was. I felt like I was stuck in this limbo where I had no one to talk to, and I'm just like, how do I have all these amazing people in my life? Yeah, I cannot talk to anybody about this? How am I a truth teller? On stage, but I can't even talk about it to people because nobody wants to hear what's going on with a woman's body at all, unless she's suck in a day that people want to hear on the stage. So it was a wild ride, you know. I'm not going to pretend that it was easy. It was not. I think the first month of doing IBF, my husband left crumbs on a kitchen counter and I started to cry and I told him I wanted to divorce. He was like, I think this might be the hormones. I was like, oh, I think you're right, Like you forget because you're just so used to getting up and going as a woman, put on you know, your pretty face, because nobody wants to hear your ship. So it was. It was a full on thing. But then I started really probably three years in three years, four miscarriages altogether in the five years. But then I started booking stuff, movie roles, in comedy gigs because nothing was precious anymore. I'm like, I really don't care what people think. You know, if you're gonna ask me my opinion, I'm gonna tell you. And I was never really liked that before. And I was playing a pregnant person in a movie and always be my maybe on Netflix. And that was a mind funk because I had to put on a belly. And this was at the time where I had just sort of given up and said, okay, God, you do whatever you need to do. And then we decided to go down the circusy route. So I'm in Vancouver with a pregnant belly as my surrogate's sort of past, trying to pass tests and get prepared for her journey with us. And then I got the audition for First Wives Club in Vancouver, and you know, I've been cheated on my first few relationships. I've been cheated on. So I was like, Okay, this is a woman who's been cheated on, and she's tired and overwhelmed and she was married. I'm like, okay, these are all things I can get behind. And I did all the funny things I was supposed to do, and at the end, I just stop. And a lot of my auditions ended that way, whether it was on tape or in the bathroom. There's a lot of crying still seeing some of it. Yeah, out of the clear blue sky. After that very very long wedding scene that we did. Your was very close to giving birth, and we are in upstate New York shooting in frigid weather and the June wedding in November, and you had a moment. I had a moment. She sent me a picture of her belly and it was the first time I saw her belly pop. And that was the moment where I was like, Oh, my goodness, there are really here. It's not just an idea or a doctor's appointment or a piece of paper. And so I just sobbed and I really could have just fell to my knees, but you and Ryan held me up and prayed over me in such a way that, um, You're amazing. I didn't know what needed You're amazing. Your level of love and tenacity is just out of controls is. I'm so happy for you and your husband. I'm so happy that you have these beautiful babies and you went so much, so so very much. And that's the thing that is the thing with us being women. There's all kinds. There's a universe inside of us, and some planets are clashing, and you still have to maintain the one that you're on. Yeah, and that is the power of women. I'm so proud of you. I'm so happy for you, every blessing, every possible joy. And the babies are beautiful. She's got a boy and a girl. Yes, come on, fraternal. I was not great. I need content too because I did well. Though the girls will tell you I will cry ball cry at the drop of a dime. So I did very well just in this moment. But I'm so proud of you. I don't even you know, we just met. But that's amazing. I mean I have to really co sign you in that. That's that's that's amazing. And your children will always know that they were meant to be here and what was done and how much work it emotional and physical work went into getting them into the world. So I may not see you, what talk to you? Maybe I may not see you what talk to you again? But girl, let me give you a happy Month's day from here until eternity somebody cut your hands. Yes, yes, indeedy, I love it. We do so much. We do so much m hm. And she's still is funny as fun on a daily basis with the camera on or off, like yeah, okay, yeah, I'm fine, I'm just I was already The interesting part about it all is that we all end up. If you've got four women on this line right now, one could not have children and believed it, and surprisingly enough, God gave me a baby. I didn't expect it, did not see it coming. Gave up. Asia married, had six children, including twins. Michelle and her wonderful husband. They struggle for it and worked for it. And li Yah is a young woman and you are young that the doctor say, and I'm gonna tell y'all, it's just it's you know, everybody, like Michelle said, everybody has a story and we all relate. And you know, Michelle, I remember when your book came out and I watched your Fresh Jump kids, and of course, like as a woman of a certain age, you know, I always want to have a family. That was for me. That's when I knew what I was gonna be, truly to meet said the world successful ment meant that for me and some women in just different stories, you know. So it's also this tribe of women and I had, it's just tribe goes larger and larger of them a single women of a certain age who it just didn't have the opportunity, whether it be a physical thing. Five boys or other things, you know, five roids, or also just the idea that you wanted a family, but you realize that somebody gotta ask you, like if you want a husband, man gotta ask you for that, you know. It's uh, it's interesting. I would have never thought at this age that I would not have had a man to say to me that start a family. That's not to say that I haven't been pregnant. I've been pregnant before. I was pregnant twice in my teenage years, once when I was thirty with a man that I knew it was not gonna be that person. So it's just interesting because here I am with this age and I contemplate, you know, as we're going through COVID and stuff like you know, I have moments of like, yeah, I'm I'm glad I don't have to be a teacher right now, because man, I see all my friends, you know, struggling with keeping their kids and stuff. But there are also moments of life, this is it gonna happen? Do I want? I always wanted to use my body for the things that I thought that I was made to use it for and not to say, and even when it comes to syracacy, even being open to that, but again wanting to have a family. You know, I think it's a blessing that you have a husband that went through that ride with you, and so, you know, a lot of us women are getting to a point where either you have men in your life they already have kids, or maybe they just they like the life that you can live as you know, being single people. So it's just it's interesting. And I'm sorry because I told I sent to Michelle at a John's PM Medicine, so I already knew this conversation was gonna be emotional because I know your story, so I apologize, and it's your story, and dude, don't ever apologize for taking up the space that you earned. This is painful as fun. And if it's like, if we can't talk to each other, then who are we gonna talk to? Nobody said it would be this art. You see people who you know meet the I just I just didn't know. It's so crazy. I mean, I think one of the hurdles I had to overcome without even knowing was not blaming myself because I've had a couple of abortions too, and I'm like, is this God punishing me, and I really had a prey on that and let that go. Yeah, that was really hard, and that was something I couldn't even say out loud two people. I never even thought it. It's funny because for the longest time throughout my life I always thought, you know, especially when it happened in being a teenager, I was like, well, that was not your life, like it was destined to be other things. But I will say from going never having that thought to now at this stage, I do have those thoughts of like, well, ship was that my chance and I just didn't then I wouldn't. I wouldn't be I wouldn't be sitting here, you know. I just I wouldn't know, y'all. Yeah I can't, but I would have to say that that that guilt is a whole lot. I had an abortion to and I thought the same thing. I didn't think I would ever have kids, and I was very deep in the church at that time, so at that time I was thinking, oh, well, God's gonna punish me. I'm not gonna have Anoh I'm not gonna have a baby. So if you ever think that again, know that that's a lot, because I'm proof to that's a lot, right, So I apologize. I really was gonna. No, I don't agize. Don't apologize, Yeah, don't apologize. You know, you could always call me and talk to me if you have any questions about I v F for I U I, or even adoption, because we tried to fully adopt for about three years and that that wasn't even we tried to adopt from third world countries and that was really hard and expensive, just the application process, and then it always came down to which they don't tell you, Oh, if you're still trying to have your own baby, then you can't adopt here. And it's like how many times can we be rejected? So what I'm saying to you is, once you feel comfortable to talk about options and you know realistically, like emotionally, what you can handle, we're not handle, I'm here to talk about it with you if you'd like to thank you. Shoot, I remember I think I told you girls before I had a doctor tell me. I was he was like, you know, you can do this by yourself, and I was like, I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you this right now. Even if you have a man, you're still doing it by yourself, right. I know that too, So that's why you're really really yeah, that part so aged. Okay, right, these decisions looking at faces right now? Yes, and I know my girls. Thank you, Michelle. Yeah, I got you. I love you. I love you you guys, I love you, I'd love you, ladies. Thank you so much for sharing, Michelle, Thank you so much for opening this door, because these are you know, we look at this kind of stuff. We look at it like other people's problems, you know, we look at it like hitch white lady problems. You know, if we don't we have this idea that black women are automatically fertile. We bidding to the lie. And you know, and you know what that is, right, and why we think black women are always fertile, go on and say it white. It's a leftover life from the slay tramp. Yeah, that's what that mess is. I just felt like I need to remind us all where the bullshit coming from? My bad you're going right a here, h That's that's enough for me. That's enough for me. If you are going through it, you know, going through this infertility moment, if you're if you're a woman that has a lot of children. You can't stop being fertile. Whatever that it is, know that it in effects at all effects. We are not pieces of stone. We are human beings and our life experiences matter, and our ovaries a fucking matter. Our connection with the universe, it all matters. And to think anything else, I know that sounds like oh some poetry ship. It's not. We are more connected than we think. And I really appreciate you calling and talking to us today. Shallot, thank you, Ellis Sheriff fucking hera. This was fun, but it was also needed and I didn't even know because and seeing people now, you can't really connect because we all have a mask on and then we have a mask on top of that. M So this is the real How do you eat an elephant? One by it? TI? What's up everyone? I'm Eves, the producer on the show. So April eleventh to the seventeen is Black Maternal Health Week in the US. But know that no matter when you're listening to this, the health of black women is something that we should be discussing, supporting, and nurturing. Go to Black Mama's Matter dot org to learn more about Black Maternal Health Week and to find resources about healthcare for Black women and girls. There are many other organizations welfare that advocate for healthcare for women and girls and that help people navigate issues related to reproductive health and fertility. Those organizations include the Sister Girl Foundation, The Broken Brown Egg, the Black Women's Health Imperative, and Sister Song. You can also find a Black doula or learn more about becoming a doula through the National Black Dula's Association at Black doulas dot org. Oh and Jill recommends the Burton Wellness Injury Center if you're in Philadelphia, and buy Michelle Betel's book Survival of the Thickest. As always, I'll drop links in the episode description. This important conversation around black maternal health deserves more airtime, so join us in our media partner Levity for a free live virtual after show on Saturday April. Visit at jails goot pod on Twitter and at jail scot Podcasts on Instagram and Facebook for registration details and tag us with your questions and comments. If you have comments on something we said in this episode, call eight six six Hey Jill if you want to add to this conversation. That's eight six six nine five four five five, don't forget to tell us your name and the episode you're referring to. You might just hear your message on a future episode. This podcast is hosted by Jill Scott, Layah st Clair, and Agr Graden Danceller. It's executive producers are Jill Scott, Shawn Jy, and Brian Calhoun. It's produced by Layas st Clair and Eve Jeff Coke. The editing and sound design for this episode we're done by Christina Loranger Yea C. Mars. Honestly, that's another thing. It's like I don't have time for smoothie. I just take my little spoon, dip it in that joker and take it down, like because I just have a hot threshold for nasty stuff. I just get it over, say it again. Boom. Now that I'm proud I have a hot threshold for nasty stuff. You know, I had to get close to the night like j dot. Ill is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.