A Slow Walk Into Life

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Jay dot im, a production of I Heart Radio. Hi everybody, Hi, Hi, how are you? This is Joe Scott. If you're listening to Jay dot L with my sister friends Ad Graden Danceler, that's me and jem Peal like st Clair with the pal Okay, Yeah, thought I took in school was French. Oh that's nice. That's that's all I know. I can tell you. I got to ask you what the toilet is in a library? They tell me biblio teca. It's all about the please and thank you. Wherever you are, please and thank you. How got goes? Yes? Come on, I don't know another one, don't cashine? What else? Uh? I don't know nothing. I just shake my head, smile very nice, y'all so worldly. Look, you've been in all these places to you just want paying attention child shaking my hand. Okay. It has been a serious pleasure to be able to travel around the world and see some things. It's it's a it's absolutely a thing to do to make your mind expanded. You you end up meeting all kinds of diverse people, you know, it's it can be an extraordinary thing. Whether you you know, got a big budget or a little one, you know, being able to travel. Y'all know, I grew up in North Philly and when it was time for me to go to college was a big deal. Like where exactly do I go? Do I Do I go somewhere that's really really diverse in the ways of multicultural you know, experiences that I could possibly have a Jewish roommate or you know, somebody from Brazil as a roommate, like all of that is so exciting, or or do I go to HBCU, which is when you think about it people, I think sometimes people make it small. They're like, oh, well, it's all black people think you'll talk about all black people. That is a big word black, Right, that's a big word. You say a word wall That is a word. Yeah, a big word, honey. Yeah, that is a global word. Might sound simple, but so deep, so so so deep. Yes, this is we're talking about lindes of people from black people, people from other countries, black people from Chicago, so many countries, many countries think about like like boars could Joe, like the black guy from what was it Germany? Germany? You never know who you're gonna meet or what you're gonna see you know, they're just and then enriched and check this jow where they come from, they don't have hbc U. So a lot of times people do come from all over from different countries here so they can experience HBCU life. So the the big question is hbc US versus p W wise, what's the p W glad? You asked her a predominantly white and staten shot. Okay, you're turn like, what's an HBCU A historically but college or university and or a university? The very nice ladies, I'm so glad I got that. You better. We're right, I am a graduate of one, so yes, I yes, wow. So okay, so what was that like? Take us back to your meeting. No, let's take us back to your meeting with your high school counselor Oh my god, why did you say that? Okay, So I'm gonna tell y'all the story about how I went to an academic high school right called Benjamin Bannaker and it was a full of black excellence. We only had football team. The reason we had a football teams, we're focused the agent hating because she went to the rival high school a k A. Wilson, which the college everything that had everything sports, music, except a high college raid as us and had we had a pool to next door at the you know the outdoor pool everybody used on Georgia Avenue anyway. So look, so basically, I went to this school and I was I used to be I used to say I used to be smart because I skipped two grades. I went to high school and I was well blah blah blah. But it caught up with me, right. So by the time I went to this academic high school, I chick might have got a little lazy. She wasn't getting you know, three point oh she was she she might have been like at one point nine two point oh girl, you know what I'm saying. So so on that day. So it's funny that Asia asked me this question because when I did meet with my counselor, you can imagine the list of colleges that were available to me at that point. She would in no shade to people who went to these institutions. But come on, let's keep it funky. She was like, you know, you're looking at Prague View. You know what I'm saying, You're looking at Shaw you know you're looking this is what you're looking at, um, And I was like, oh so. And at the time, my two of my best friends, who are a year ahead of me, were already in college, one at Pitzer College, a liberal arts college in California Claremont College is and the other at George Washington in d C. So for me it was interesting because and again I got flight attended mommy, so I was able to go visit them and my senior year of high school and and see their experiences. Right, obviously, you can tell that ain't got better raised to me because they got into these schools, so that wasn't even a thing. But but I was curious in the white school experience, the p w I experience. And they went to two different kinds of p w i's one right, one being a liberal arts college and the other one being Georgetown, which is, I don't what would you big. It's like a big private institution, so it's not a state school, but it's like it's in the hierarchy of a lot of kids that got money, have money, white kids like Georgetown. Really bottom line is ain't a whole bunch of blacks there there you go there, right, So it's ill is I'm going to visit them and seeing their experiences, and like I went to see Pitzer and I was like, oh, this is interesting. My girlfriend, she's held a black she goes here, she's her major is Black anthropology, Black studies and anthropology. But she had some interesting race situations going on at that liberal college. They had Nazis on that campus, right, and so just living her experience her, you know, watching her set up all kinds of black meetings and in ciphers and stuff to get the black folks together, and then visiting usamaca pick up to Usamaka who was going to g W where I'm watching her like pledge a k A and watching all and she went toward some race stuff too with the white kids at that school. So I had decided early that I between knowing that the p W eyes are way more expensive but sorry than the HBC used um and knowing that I could possibly going through all that and being in this large situations, and I just I was like, you know what, HBCU. And at the time, I really wanted to go to Clark Atlanta, but my grades weren't good enough, so I ended up going to Morgan State, which was like thirty minutes away, and so that's how I ended up going there and then transferred to Clark Atlanta as soon as I could, like two years later, because all my friends, all my DC friends were at the A. U. C. Morehouse, Spellman, Clark Atlanta and away, and I really believe as a student, I was like, you should go away to college because able to go home every weekend was kind of like you ain't know, you ain't going to school for real. So that was well, it's interesting, but I wanna circle back to it, but I do want to put a little pen in this one part of what you talked about. It's just about the experience of being black and black on the p w I campus and having to and what ends up being the more conscious black person or most aware or quote unquote conscious black person. You start to see that some of the folks that come out and do a lot of this nation work end up coming out of those p w I where they had to fight, when they had to fight the good fight, as opposed to coming out of the HBCUs where you're just like you would think in a situation where all the black people all together, that they come out more radical. But it seems like sometimes I've observed and obviously I'm sure that all the HBCU people gonna kick my butt, but I will say that I've seen that sometimes you see that that you find a more radical result in terms of politics, people who were involved in politics social consciousness are black folks that come out of these p wise because they're fighting so hard to be present in those spaces that they get that practice. They get that practice. They don't get, you know, indoctrinated into more of the you know, black elite for the uh, the the you know that that kind of class structure that happens when you come out of an HBCU sometimes. So obviously that's not all the time, but I have observed that, you know what I'm saying, So everybody knows, I didn't go to college, did not graduate high school. I end up getting my g D. But my experience with college started with my sister. Watching my sister go through that process and decide to go. And I remember my mother was in a relationship with a lovely man at the time who was from Portland, Oregon, and he would tell my sister, you know, don't close off your options. My sister wanted to go to HBC you so badly, Like she would like, don't close off your options. And he tried to convince her to apply to you know, George Town, to a few other places, and you know, and and she was, you know, she had her mind made up. And she ended up applying anyway to a few of the quote unquote white schools. And but she already knew if I get into Hampton, I'm going to Hampton. And she right, Okay, that's not the real age. But that's a you know what whatever with that. Okay, See, I don't I don't get involved in that argument because it's not I don't have a dog in the race. I don't. I do enjoy the pride, though the pride is so beauty. Do enjoy the pride until it gets way out of hand. But she's quite beautiful. It's a football game, girl, because it can get vicious. It can get vicious. Basically, she's like, if I get in the Hampton, I'm going to Hampton. As a young girl. Mean, my sister seven years apart, witnessing her experience on that campus. And when I tell you, look, my sister had the quintessential HBC you experienced, all right, She was running for miss this and miss that car going to car Nation every honey, and she was Delta. She pledged. She did the whole girl, the whole ship bang bang. Okay. And I remember going to watch my sister cross and a little tiny thing and she was like kind of a shy, sort of sort of perposon. But girl, listen your experience that watchould somebody cross? You know? Have you ever experienced watching that? Yeah, shout out to my girlfriend Nadine who crossed Delton too. It's such an interesting the closing, the closing thing that they do in line. It's just so interesting. And I'm being at their roughest stint. They ain't ut in this moment, right, is that they'd be all dressed up at this point when they when they come out, like when they come out when they present the line and everything, and they all all dressed up and they look amazing and they're singing and they and the whole nine. Okay, that's the that's the last last I did the night before when they outside on the yard and they like this is yeah yeah but yeah. So so that was my first experience like understanding what college was like. But and I was like, well this is if I'm gonna do it, this is what I want. But you know, I end up getting into music business and doing a whole other my whole life different. It went in a completely different direction. So we already know that it was a different world for me, you know the tea, but it literally was a different world. I was like, I'm doing college. It looked interesting and fun and cool. I was like, oh yeah, I wasn't I want to go to college. I didn't really think about going. It wasn't versus for me. It wasn't an HBCU versus UM, you know, a white uh historically white whatever institution. I don't want you all cahol it p p w I. It wasn't that for me. It was like, one, I don't have no money. I gotta pay you know some I gotta pay for everything. And Temple aund the corner, and Temple University is around the corner, so I could stay at home and not have to, you know, have dorm fees because I I do tell you if my mom gave me twenty dollars for college, and how am I going to make this this work? So for me, you know, I got to Temple University and then of course we're right there in the heart of North Philadelphia. So you know, there were students from all over the world plus plus a lot of Temple, a lot of Philly people, you know, a lot of Philly people, a lot of DC, a lot of Maryland, a lot of New York. You know, it was a lot of black people, and like I was getting the best of both worlds if you ask me. You know, Temple thinks that it's it's an HBCU. That's not gonna say Temple. They think it is. But you know, here's an interesting fact about Temple is that Temple is actually the first school to offer a PhD program in Africana studies in black stuffies. It is they got there before Howard, they got there before the schools. You yeah, yeah, no, I just do it, she said, I just do it. I just do it. Yeah, you know, it's you know, but Philadelphia is just such a big college town period though, still got a lot of great schools out of great school even in the surrounding area. So you know, obviously the first the first HBCU, which is was is it is it linkol or chaining? You better get it right, because that's all I know oh gosh's one of those two. It's Chaney. It's Cheney. Dude, dude looking up, you are Chris Cheney. But but but you want a pickle sandwich. I will take a pickle sandwich with extra mustard, please, thank you. I take a real pickles. Oh dad, I'm sorry. I had a late night last What a beautiful thing. Yeah, I went to a party last night, and you know, things got a little out of hand anyway, So uh temple right amen, um, But yeah, you know, and what's interesting to me is that because with my sister, my experience kind of vicariously through her over the years had me so convinced about HBCUs. I just never for a second thought that my children would not attend an HBCU. Right. And then when it came time for my son to to think about college, he was kind of not interested because at that time he was thinking he wanted to be in sports, and he was like, I want to go to a D one school, and that was for in those sports. And so he said, you know, I want to go to a D one school. So here I am thinking, oh my god, I I never even imagine my child wood want not want to go and let me tell y'all what did it? But tell y'all what did it? Was the summer before eleventh grade or was the twelfth grade? What it is? Either eleven for twelfth grade. My two things happened to my son Different World on Netflix for the first time year Different World and then Tina. You see, coachs wrote Between the World and Me about his experience at Howard, And let me tell you something. Those two things. My son reading that book and Different World all summer he was like, I'm going to Howard. I don't care what nobody say. He didn't end up going to Howard. He ended up in a more House, but he girl listen too. Can I tell y'all this the AUC experience the because you mentioned in more House? So I remember I told you I transfer from Morgan State to Clark Atlanta, and people talk about HBCUs all being the same, But the AUC is an experience within itself. I say this to say that when I went to Morgan State, you know, if you had a car, you were special and you probably had like some type of hootie. Right when I got to the A U C. Which consists of Morris Brown, Morehouse, Spellman by the Way, Spellman College, more House College, Clark Atlanta, Universe citt and more Morris Brown College. Um, it was just a completely different world I had never seen. And I'm from d C. I had never seen black eliteism like that. I had never seen like freshmen driving like luxury vehicles, dropped down the street like black kids. Just I mean, this is this is this is the auc in Atlanta's Clark Atlanta where I went. I remember it's on a shares with more House and Spellman, Which are you know which Our elite is black people, the most elite Black people than their kids. Does it sound so exciting? It sounds so exciting. It was an experience. I mean when I went to college, I was going to school with Easha Nipulliam and Evan Cosby. He Sha Nipulliam played Evan Cosby is the youngest child. So imagine being Evan Coby walking on your college campus and you have a building named after your mother right here, you know what I mean? Like it was just yeah, Well, we took my son down there. Chris Tucker's son was also an income and freshman, and you know, and it was just interesting because I had to talk with my son before he went, I said, this will be your first experience with black elitism. I was like, you don't know anything about that, You've never experienced that. He he didn't know anything about that, and coming from Philly, coming from Philly and having a life experience that he had, I said, this is gonna be totally new for you. And so for him it was. I mean, it turned him off a lot. But at the same time too, he was able to see the diversity in the way black folks live and how they're raised. And you know that there isn't you know, the whole Black people are not a monolist thing like that. There's one place that was home. If it's one place, I'll dropped that home, it's the hc U. And that was my point when I say I don't like when people say, well, it's funny. Remember we had that controversy when a certain talk show host it a couple of years ago. We don't need HBC used anymore. And you know, why do you think so small? Why you only think that HPC used. The network that you build is can be a beautiful thing at those HBCUs, the network of black people that you build. And twenty years later, what I have built. And it's just my friends that have gone to HBCUs are very very proud of their universities and the friendships, like you said, the friendships said that they created, they're not only you know, they're not only good friendships, but they're also beneficial in business, and that is very attractive. But at the same time, you can do that anywhere mm hmmm, at any university that you go to. College is the point, you know, it's just the whole experience for me. For me because you know, I'm I was on a budget, a serious, serious, serious budget, and I wanted to advance myself out of my situation, and I thought that college was going to do that for me. You know, it's a nice slow walk in the real life. That's what I always say, like at the end of the day, and I know it's you know, it is attractive. That is hey, is that back. It's a nice slow walk into real life. Yeah, because yeah, because Asian and I we had a conversation about and I think and I killed too about like going to college and how with the kids are thinking differently about college. But the one thing I can always say is is that yes, it don't throw you directly in the life, you know what I mean, Like every year it is gradual. You're getting deeper and deeper, and you're getting closer and closer, and you building your network. I think we might start out and then move on to an apartment, start off with a HOOPI. Then you might get a newer hoopdi, you know, and then you might get start out with the shuttle. But yes, right, all of those things. I started off on the bus. I had a trans pass and some tokens okay, and sometimes a bike ride. We'll be back after the break. I think the problem at the end of the day and then what people eventually are starting to understand in the here and now, is that as beneficial as it is, you know, for black students, it just turns into a whole lot of debt and over time and then the and people because you don't really know what you wanna do. You're young, and you're not really in a position to make that decision. Oftentimes people go and they spend all this money and this time, and they developed these friendships and connections and all of that, but then they end up not even doing the work that they went to college for. You know, when you got to college, usually working for free a lot of what's that year when you take a year off? I would leave in a gap year. I believe in a gap year as a as a parent, you know, I as a parent, I would love for Jet to take a gap year. He told me he wants to go to Paris and he just he wants to just be there. And I was like, Okay, we can try to do that at another time. But you know, I don't know, um, but that's what he said. But he's also twelve, so we'll see how this thing goes. But I think it's a great idea because you get you get an opportunity to do short internships and things you may be interested in. You know, this is where the parenting thing comes in. And you're calling your friends like I need my my kid to be you know, around you for three weeks. What you say, can you can you do that? Yeah? You know, just communication. When you start school, you have an idea of what you might want. I wanted to be a psychologist when I started school. Then I went to to to be an English teacher and ended up doing neither of those things. And you know what I mean, neither of them but that was the that was the skills, and yet using the skills that I did obtain, right, I mean, I think I think it's about the communication aspect of it. What do you think your kid might want to get out of school, out of college? What are the goals here? What are the things that and and not goals in terms of what do you want to do with your life? What are your goals for the moment? Are you trying to develop friendships? Are you trying to, like you said, have a slow walk into the real world? Are you just trying to discover the things that you like? Like? What are the what are you trying to get from this experience? Because in a lot of ways, let's just say this, for some students, and I got an opportunity to sit in a few classes at Howard this year, and for some of the students there, they had never been entirely black learning environment. So for them, they're coming, um, they're coming from predominantly white communities, and this is their first opportunity to be engulfed the learning the environment with all black kids, and so for them going to HBCU, it is strictly about having had that experience. So these are kids who have top notch grades. I mean, they could go to any school they want to go to and and possibly on scholarship. Right, So it's not always just about the financial aspect of it, although you know, for you know, for me, if I had gone, that would have been all it would have been about. You know, But you know, I listened to some of these students in this class not almost cried because some of them were talking about their experiences in high school and how they had to fight just to be heard. One one student talked about how she and her classmates had to literally rally and protests in order to have a Black History Month assembly, a Black History Month assembly. And you know, education for black students is absolutely under attack in this moment in time, not that it has never not been, but it is truly under attack. And when we think about the history of HBCUs and even the history of a Howard University who's named after a white man that used to be the head of the Freeman's Bureau and so right are named after you know, white men, and these institutions were developed and built off the assumption that now we have to educate an entire population of former enslaved people. So this is the the actual, you know, purpose of this, and so educating the whole populace is a new invention. And so as parents of black students and even ourselves and how we choose to educate ourselves, we have to really look at what it is that we're really trying to get from these situations and what positions that we're in in this moment, you know, and what higher education should look like. There are so many questions around that, and and even with schools like Howard, like right now, Howard's kind of embroadened a little bit of controversy right now because they are they're basically dismantling their classics department. What does that mean? So this is now now forgive me because my my knowledge around this is limited. So but for from my understanding, this is the department that's dedicated to quote unquote classical literature. So you know, the the classical philosophy of the world, the Plato and the this and that. You know what I'm saying, People who are dedicated to that kind of classical cannon of of philosophy and writing and things like that. So they're doing away with that that but not necessarily to shift the energy towards let's say, African classical philosophy. It's that that's the trend throughout the country is that they're going more towards them and less towards you know, um, the liberal arts and things like that. So the so even the HP I say all this to say, and they're the only ones that had a classics department, only that class so exactly, so I say all this to say that p W Y H B c U public private, Ivy League state school. At the end of the day, I feel we all have to be truly, truly clear on what it is we are actually trying to get from school period. What type of education are we looking for? Who are we looking to educate us? And who do we want to learn from? And under what pretense? And what is centered in that learning? To me, that is ultimately where my head is on this thing, is that you know, um, college is going to mean a lot of different things to a lot of people. I want to be clear, for myself and for my children, what what are we trying to learn here? What are we what are we trying to get from this EXPI Well, according to the to the Google search, Howard University is twenty seven thousand, two hundred and six dollars a year. Hampton University is twenty eight thousand and twenty four dollars. Spellman is twenty nine thousand, nine hundred and seventy two dollars. Florida A and M is seventeen thousand, seven hundred and twenty five dollars. More Houses twenty eight thousand, seven. Yes, you do. Morgan State eighteen thousand, four hundred eighty's what we do? Uh? What what? I'm just happened to pass? Harvard fifty fifty one thousand, nine hundred twenty five dollars a year. Georgetown is fifty eight thousand and fifty eight dollars a year. Yeah. See, when we're talking about college, we ultimately have to start talking about school loans and grants of and things of that nature. You must, you must too prep bath and one of the big things you certainly don't want to ruin your credit. I did not appreciate I got the loan for school, and the people called my grandma. They called my grandmother every day. They bothered my grandmother so much. She said, Jim, you got to do something. I said, be right. It wasn't Sally. It wasn't Sally made. That's that's after my time. I'm trying to remember it was. They have changed the media names. Joe. Yeah, now Navigant is in the game, you know the Listen. The first thing I did when I made a little bit of money is pay off my dog on student loans, because it's the first thing. I didn't buy a car, I didn't buy no clothes. I paid off my student loans grand loan. But let me let me tell y'all a sad story, though. Let me tell you all a sad story. My son got a partial scholarship to more House, and me and my husband said, hey, you know, we're doing well enough for ourselves that we can pay the other half of this tuition so that this child would graduate death free. Because that was that was the prayer, like, hey, let's let's send them out in the world without these debts. And you know, then we got hit with the with the COVID and my son end up having to take a gap year because I didn't want him to apply for a loan, and let's just be real, he applied for one and didn't get one because guess what, we weren't working. He wasn't working and and we were glad we didn't get the loan, to be honest, because at the end of the day, we had worked for three years to make sure that this child would not end up in his thirties and forties still paying back alan, you know, for one year of school. But it gets very tricky out there in the world because even you talk about a more house, you talk about a lot of easily schools, and there is there is definitely some shame, and there's definitely some stigma around those who don't finish in four years and those kids who do take so. So some of the culture of school and college we got to really talk about that, like how kids feel if they don't go, if they go for a little while, they don't finish, if they go, if they take a break, all this different stuff. It's like the socialization around what college means is whether no matter what school you go to, it is just problematic, even down to like what what like he had talked about about her transferring, because it's there's something there's sometimes you get that too, your credits don't apply and yea, yeah, like it took me twenty years to finish college, and it took me if I was gonna say I transferred, So of course I didn't took me five years, because I did. It took me twenty years, in and out a little bit at a time. And then I got some point and Temple University was like, hey, we're gonna give you a master's because of your experience, and I said, I appreciate that, thank you. Well. Yeah, and then later on they gave me a doctorate and I was like, thank you so much. I appreciate that because I feel like I honestly that honorary PhD. I'm claiming that wholeheartedly. I'm claiming it. Look and traveled the world on and learned some things that haven't failed. A lot of them succeeded something too. I've I've learned quite a bit, so I'm gonna own that. But even all of that, it's interesting because everything that Asian was saying about, you know, those things that can happen to me too. That's still a slow walk in the life. Yeah, it's a slow walk into life. That's what I love about college. I'm hoping that universities that you hold onto just that thought alone for your kids or if you're a young person yourself listening to this podcast. It's a slow walk into life. It's you're you're gonna meet people. You're not gonna like everybody. Even if everybody likes that person, you might not you know, you might not fit into that specific click or crowd and maybe you don't like clicks or crowds at all. That's when you find out and you find out about yourself. I found out I was a I was a g D I in college. I mean sis g D. I got damn individual. I'm not ap pled. I said I got to damned individual. So I know, I said that I was proud of you. How about how about this? Though? There was a trend there's a trend now that was trending for some photographer, people going the community for two years because or the first year, because a lot of times that first year is just kind of one on one classes general education. People go on the community and then transferring. I was seeing a lot of trends towards that because people are again not trying to be in debt, not trying to do you know, make these decisions solely on emotion. Because I'm telling you, there was emotions my son got that got into more house. It was like, this was a tradition. It was and may make you feel they are more house moromance. Oh this is this is a part and I want a lot of you brol that openings, that opening ceremony, baby world. When when we dropped that son off, let me tell y'all something I've never seen anything like it. And one thing I will say about HBCUs again and particularly with more House, was that see that moment for young black kids to be indoctrinated into community. We need to be doing that, period. Because when I the first thing I thought coming out of that weekend dropping I killed all off there was all black boys should feel this, All black boys at seventeen eighteen years old should be indoctrinated into community in this way. I was like, this was like something I said. At all I could think about, as much as I love my child and everything, but all I could think about was all all these young men back in Philly who never ever feel this, and the young man who went through that ceremony, who can go one or two ways with that feeling. You can go with that feeling that yes I am the ship and everybody else's or you go away with that feeling of I need to spread this love. I need for other brothers to feel this. And I'm feeling I'm doing this because I'm I'm setting a standard and I'm gonna bring this. And I want to allow to you not not to downplay elitism, because you don't have a big problem with that. But I really didn't get that energy that during that weekend, and I was and I was looking forward, trust and believe, but that that part of it was really felt pure. I won't even lie. There was a moment where the head of Africana Studies as at at Clark Atlanta spoke to the kids, came and spoke to us as the parents and kids, and he talked about being on the boats and that he said part of part of the ritual daily that the slaves would do would call out their names to see who had passed during the night, and that each day that they would call the names out to see who was still there, who was still breathing, who was still surviving. And again, to sit in a room full of black parents with black boys and here that and and no, you know, this opportunity to educate themselves on their own terms was powerful, and that's their foundation, that's and that's the foundation. Foundation. We are all sitting in his room in a green Yes, this is where we want our children. This is where we want our children. That was I could never there's you know, there's no amount of not picking up the phone in the finance office, or there's no amount there's no amount of of of of red tape that would take that moment away from us as a family. And I will, I wish that moment for every young black child, you know, to to experience that male, female, whatever of them, they no matter who, they should be able to come into community in that way. We're gonna take a quick break and then we'll be right back. See you don't you don't really know what you missed unless you get an opportunity to experience it. So I got a chance to know hit a homecoming or two, and I was like, oh, oh wow, wow, this is what's happening here. So much excitement, which hardly comment or two did you hit you? I'm so curious, did you? Because I mean, I know Howard's up in there because we're on the easy You're right, right right, it's requirements requirement. Yeah, I'm trying to think what other schools Howard and and um spelling. Yes, the spell House home coming. Yes, yes, yes, that's the thing. I like an HBCU homecoming. The man I didn't know until I now, I was like, this is exciting. It was exciting everywhere, and everybody was just so pretty to me. Everybody was just so so fly and everybody, you know, having fun and not fly like dressed up or you know, fancy, but just like free and beautiful and beautiful. And that's so I went obviously the Temple University, and then you know, I visited other schools. You know, I wish I could have done more of that, but you know, at the time, I was working a couple of jobs, so you know, I had to try to keep the lights on. No, Yeah, that's why. That's why I really appreciate it. Being able to go to my friends schools and see what their experiences were because not for and then being able to experience Morgan and it's stay different personality Clark Atlanta and It's state, different personality, and all those schools are different. And and circling back to what agents said about like understanding why are you're going to college? It's funny I always audit and say wasn't worth it, because of course I'm still in debt, right, I still got student alone to pain and that was just for three years of college. But I go back and I say, you know, if nothing, if not, maybe I don't remember what I learned in these classes, but I do remember what I learned on my internships, because you know, that's the monkey wrench that if you want to get an internship, you gotta be in college most times. Right, So me interning and B one oh three, you know, and interning at w c l K at the rate your station at Clark and stuff mold to me for who I am, you know, mold of my career in the start. So I'm like, that was worth it. It was becoming friends with people like Jima Pickett, who is now the head of R and B and hip hop and Spotify. And DJ Drama who was DJ Dramatic at the time, who went to Clark Atlanta and we were all in the same department. Like I go back and I'm like, Jamal, immagine, I know you know Jamal, Yes, Oh my god, Jamal Jamal who had the best radio show to this day, yeah, yes, to this day. Be Markey and all of them so yeah, I mean again I agree with you know why, and you know why you want to go with your purposes and if it can be fulfilled by college, I'm right. That takes some paying attention, you know, paying attention to yourself and going and visiting these places and seeing what's nearby, you know what will work for you. You know. Um my mentee went to Berkeley College of Music and I went there and was just done. That was done, just just the the range of musicality, the range of of of diversity. I was like, this is incredible. I went to Harvard. I got a the pleasure of teaching a master class at Harvard, and that at that's like the hogwarts of education. Okay, what was it? What what did your classroom look like at Harvard? I'm curious, like what was the break the funky break down in your classroom? It was it was pretty diverse. Um, of course the black student showed up, you know, yeah, definitely, yeah, they definitely showed up and they were amazing. Like seriously, you're you're you have you have a double major. One is music you play four or five instruments really and then your your other major was like the one young lady she she beautiful voice. My god, I know I'm going to see her somewhere like in montro one day. You know, I know I am, I know who I am. Um. Don't you love higher learning, fine arts? Higher learning? When you see these groups of kids who are like they're like the the the academics of fine arts, like I'm Despulding was the professor while I was like, wow, yeah, I mean the people that we knew, especially that came out of Berkeley. I'm like even Madison fearing to Layla hath the way to I think Robert go there? No que did uh? Where did he go? Did he go? Maybe? I I don't help to tell us. But nonetheless, just pay attention to where it is that you want to like, where you want to be around. If you're like so many people love n y U. They love n YU because it's smacked down in New York City. There's literally every possible thing you could get into, anything that you have any interest in. It's right there for you and fightally made you want to go there too. That's true, that's true. The the options are really infinite. It is really like Ages said, it's really about what do you want in your life. That dollars n yuft three thousand, three hundred and eight dollars. Wow, I think that is a hundred thousands. That is two hundred thousand dollars in debt, Lord Jesus, and we ain't even talked about books yet. By the way, people, when you get the refund, if you have extra, put it away. It's not really a gift, it's your own money. They trick you part that party. Girl. I'm gonna tell you right now. I love the idea of of I love learning at this point in my life. I love to learn, and I think that the passion for hurt on that money. She's like, I'm still in debt. Yeah, that's just a lesson, and I am. I'm sorry. Yes, I know, no, I just stopped talking. Let's less a moment of silence. But it is dead. And everybody else that's in their forties and still got paying some chip from twenty something years ago, a whole big, deep breath. I know many of my friends who had PhD Oh sorry three, yes, is it worth it? Let me work it. Put my thing down flipping. I just want to tell the people I started ohing thirty and it's got to a d I don't know how it got there, but I just need you to know interests real people. Yeah, it's real, and deferment is not as good as you're thinking. No it's not. Look, oh god, I told you all. That's why we tried. We tried to give this child. We tried dry what funny is Asian? When I was I don't know if y'all remember that when we were younger, that's when people really were showing commercials about saving for college and ship like that and like it was. It was. It was episodes on TV about it and whatnot. So I just assumed, no shade, mommy, no shade. I just assumed that my parents had something the same. But it was just automatically assumed that I was gonna get along. I was like, oor a scholarship, I said, but I thought that they said in the commercials, in the TV shows their parents say, But it wasn't even it's I mean my mother. I watched my mother bust her butt to get my sisters through school, you know, and and and and take out loans and she's a single parent in the whole nine and to kind of fulfill that dream of of you know, of of going to college. But again, like I said, you gotta know what you're going for. And now I feel like we can give kids a better kind of overall feeling because I think there was a a thought also that when we were young, you go to college to pick a career, you're gonna have your whole life, and that you're planning your whole life. What we're saying is something actually quite different, is that you're really planning the next four years. You're not really planning your whole life, you know what I'm saying. And so I think that that is really important to understand and balancing what it is you want to do, because you know, this is an investment, is a very very deep in investment, and how do you want to make that investment? And I even told my UM. I had a conversation with my UH with my daughter who is now a rising senior, okay, and we had a very real talk about it. She wasn't even really that interested in college, and I told her, I said, Okay, I get that, but you don't really know what you wanna do, so go ahead and go to college. So we had that, we had that tussle back and forth. I didn't think you would have said, okay, Okay, I didn't. I didn't think you would have said that. Well, I feel like my whole point is this is my thing, but we're gonna do this. We're not gonna do this emotionally, right. If you don't know what you wanta do, go either to state school or to community that first year. Then when you get in state tuition and or or and or cheaper tuishtion for community because even for community college they have if you live in a certain zip code, it's it's even cheaper. So at least I know that for Philadelphia. So what I'm saying is that I told her, I said, Okay, if you don't know what you want to do, don't sit idle go to college, but just don't just go to state school or the community. Then once you start seeing if you like something or whatever the case may be. One thing about this area is all kinds of school from IVY Lee, HBCU, Liberal Arts, Private, the whole night, the whole night. Everything is right here in the state, everything is right here in the city and in the surrounding areas, and sounds like when you have an opportunity to go to to spread your wings a little bit more once you feel comfortable that way, we're making a financial commitment that's realistic, but we're also understanding the benefits of college and the benefits of the college experience, and giving you some time to figure out what it is you want to do to make long lasting relationships connections. All of those things will happen in that in that process, but without picking the fifty dollar school for you to go to. Doubt very much that I'm going to be paying for school. I doubt very much that I'm gonna be paying for school, you know what I mean, like for for my kids. Like, let me see what you're gonna do. Look, do you want it? Do you want it? Because I've seen a lot of parents throw away a lot of money that they could have used to get their kids in school, or you know, they don't they don't even try. They just in their are having a good time. Hey, you have a good time while you work a job? Okay, yeah, Well see that's the thing is that all my older kids work, so they already see what a job get right? That ain't that that you already see how much you're coming home with with that. I don't even have to I don't even have to teach that teach. Yeah, I will. I will help you started. I will help you start a business, but I need you to take some kind of financing classes or something in that area before you even start. It doesn't it doesn't necessarily have to be you know, four years of university for me anyway. But you know, um, if that's what you want to do, if it benefits you, if it behooves you get up in there and you're like this feels right to me and you want to walk away with a degree, then that's what's up. If not then and then you want to start a business, then I'm gonna need you to to really go out and actively participate in whatever that business is. Now that's where I come into play because I'm your mom and I can probably you know, help you get in to some spaces. But don't embarrass me out here. You don't need you to go on there and work hard, work, hard earned yours, you know. But see that's my things. Like you you have to ask me for my resources. I'm not going to offer. You have to ask me because it's like the offering. I've tried that, that's what said kind of I've already been down this road. So it's like you, you, you can offer all the resources you want, but that doesn't mean that that's a good match for the kids and they and they don't appreciate it the same. Let them go figure out what is it they're gonna figure out. If you have a resource that can help them, guess what they're gonna do. Ask because because Liyah will tell you about the about the phone call she gets from my child, and and that's because he understands. He he's figured out like who you know? Who who? What is the support that I need? Who is the resource that I need? And that's that's fine for me. But one thing I'm I'm understanding more and more every day if I could tell any parents anything. And what I've learned from having you know all these different people is that you cannot predict you and you must observe, you must listen, and then you must accept that on some level and on most levels, this other human being is not going to do things the way that you planted out in your head. This is just not going to happen. They are their own person, their own individual, and they're gonna make that decision for themselves. Said that girl, Because I'm telling one thing that child will do is make a liar out of your dreams. Honey. Oh oh, that's so interesting. It's the concept of parents having full out dreams about what their kids should be. It's interesting because I will get my parents credit. They just wanted me to be happy. It's a lot of treasure in that way. And it doesn't really they work out. And guess what, there were times when you were not happy where your parents were like, god, they're on it. Did I not dream hard enough for the child's happiness? Oh? That happens. And typically if you try to force you know, square into a circle, it's not gonna happen anyway. You know, they can't. You can't make somebody beat what you want them, right. They showed up as an individual, They showed up as a whole individual. All you can do is feed them, feed them. And I don't mean food, right, but I mean food too. But you know what I'm saying. You just feed their interests and this is not all you can do. And see what happens after that, you know, and and hope for the best and and if lord, if they have joy in their lives, you know, like, yeah, you you won you want if they find something that they actually love to do, whether that be a lumberjack or electrician or or a physician. You know that. To this day, my mother still checks in on me and she says, but do you love what you do? Because I just want to make sure that you want you like, do you do that? Like last week and I was like, yeah, Mommy, I'm good, I'm good. I do you know what? Like? Yeah, I really love the way your parents love We love your parents love them. I really love the way your parents love you. I think it's just beautiful. It is, girl, it shows when you grow all. I just I just want everybody out here. I'm gonna say it. I don't even know these people, but I want you to read and or watch The Secret. Oh that's old school, girl, It is old school. It's it's really about the power of attraction and what you attract to your life. And you really can't speak things into fruition. But as you do that, be mindful of every kind of situation. It's kind of like, you know, being having a genie in a bottle. You know, you could say I want a million dollars, but you're in the If you're in a forest or the does itt and you now you've got a million dollars, What is that exactly going to do for you? Except all you can do is burn it at night, you know what I mean. So you have to think about the whole picture, the whole package, and be as specific as you possibly can. When the journey of life, Jill, that what you are saying right now is the journal it is. It's not a secret. And how to ask better questions? Yes, yes, that part more detailed questions, more detailed questions. We're talking about ourselves, you know, where are we going for our education? And we're talking about the children that we love. You know that we you know, we're blessed to have come through us like okay, you know, whether that's our niece and nephew that we love, kids that we love. We want them to be happy and fulfilled in this life. Joyful, Happy is fleeting. Joyful is what we're hoping for. So as they prepare, you know, for their their slow journey into grown up world, into adulthood, and they're looking at universities, it is very much worth taking the trip. And whether that's on Greyhound, whether that's on what's the jet blue? Uh, the jet blue, the jet blue, you know, whatever it is that you have to do, so you can see it for yourself and see if it's good to you. Don't walk into university or college blindly stand on the yard, but it's proud and just watch and see and and see for yourself. Because it is a financial endeavor, you know, to put it lightly, partnership, and it is the kind of debt that can change your future, so you have to think about it, really think about it. What's what's good for you and your family and your kid, you know, as they move forward. I love that I went to Temple University because I was able to do what I could, you know, I could do what I needed to do at home and still have great experiences in so many areas from poetry to to acting to you know, all the things that I do now. So I'm grateful for that. And then I got some of that black Andy black at me too, you know, so I got a chance to check that out too, And yeah, all of those things worked for me. But that's me. And if I could, if I could, I won't say if I could do it again, but if I could go to university now, I would go to an HBCU. Yeah, I would. Yeah, all those experiences. I even appreciated working at the club through it. Yeah. Well, first of all, I ain't been to neither, but I'm going. So if you're listening right now, you would like to offer me some life tuition. Um, I'm going to some place. So I'm trying to go, Bill, I'm going back to school. That's happening where you where you want to come. I already enrolled a CCP, but I'm saying if Howard or Lincoln or Cheney or fact not Family, that's too far, or any any schools that are within driving distance of my house. If you are listening to this podcast and you would like to give me a scholarship based on my life experience, I am willing. I'm willing to take it. I will take all of it. You're gonna go ahead and teach a class, okay, yes, of course, And and you're gonna have to think about where like to be specific in this, be specific in this where exactly what is it that you're going for? What are you going for? Oh? I am absolutely going to learn like this is my This is strictly about what like what's your major? You mean like what's the like? What's the like? You have a boy, y'all, and I know you just love to learn. And we're about to say Africana and you know what Africana studies. You know, I mean, it's absolutely Africana studies. And I don't put you to no box blue blue. You might have been like, you know what, Jill, I've always wanted to be as nist and I'm not interested in distry and very comfortably and I'm happy. I'm happy to box my ship up, tape it and the whole not that is the box. I'm interesting. I absolutely want to get my get my bachelor's degree in Africana studies. That is my goal and I will be doing it and I will get it period. That's happening. That's happening. So y'all heard of give up the scholarships. You know you want Asia in your classroom. You know you want me to have come help me out, y'all? Good for Actually you're creating an actually a good idea for a program for adult or education. You know, I'm just saying, and I believe I believe in adult education. I've talked to my children because honestly, I do feel like to learn anything, you have to shift the lens out of this kind of eurocentric lens into this African lens. And for me, I have actually pitched to my children that all of them major and Africana studies first, and then we want to something else. I've already pitched it. You know it's a pitch. Okay, okay, Well, my son is an Africana Studies major, so let's not aboard board if you have If you have thoughts and feelings about the things that we talked about, I would love, we would all love to hear your thoughts. Thank you so much for listening to j dot Ill, and all of all the proceeds go to join. Thank you so much. How do you Eat an Elephant? One? By? It time? Hey, y'all, it's producer Eves again bringing you the resources for the episode since it came up a couple of times. Go watch A Different World if you're not familiar with the show. It's a sitcom about the fictional HBCU Hillman College. Right now, it's on Prime video, but who knows where it will be in the future, so catch it on a box set if you can. It's also worth having at least some knowledge on the history of HBCUs, so I'll drop some links where you can learn more about that in the description, as well as a resource on the Classics Department issue at Howard. All right, y'all, until next time, Hi, if you have comments on something we said in this episode called eight six six, Hey, Jill, if you want to add to this conversation that's eight six six four three nine five four five five. Don't forget to tell us your name and the episode you're referring to. You might just hear your message on a future episode. Thank you for listening to Jill Scott Presents Jay dot Ill the podcast. This podcast is hosted by Jill Scott, Laia st Clair and agr Graden Danceler. It's executive producers are Jill Scott, Shawn g and Brian Calhoun. It's produced by Layas st Clair and me Eves Jeff Cope. The editing and sound design for this episode we're done by Christina Larenger. J dot Ill is a production of I Heart Radio. 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