R.K. Gandhi - "Hope in the Black Hole"

0:03 We stand on guard for the welcome to I Think. Therefore I slammed the podcast bringing you the best slam poetry and spoken word artist from around Australia and around the world. And today the emphasis is on around the world. We are taking a little trip in our magic rocket ship. My guest today is a Canadian Indian poet, writer, and educator living in Ontario, Canada. He regularly performs and speaks about the power of poetry in front of audiences and also runs workshops that integrate ideas around healing from writing and how it may help dynamically remove stress and trauma that is stored in the body. His first book, Red Pill Rhymes, was renowned for his distinctive blend of poetic, satire and dystopian themes and delved into complex subjects such as trauma, love, spirituality, healing, politics, and media.

0:55 His sophomore release is called Hope in the Black Hole, and it's ready to take us on a new cosmic journey of healing coming to us live from not the 51st state of the United States. Thank you very much. And never will be. RK Gandhi Ravi, welcome to the show. Oh, so good to be here. Good to be with you, Andrew. Yes, we are our own country and we have our own brand of everything here. So yeah, we don't want to be any part of anyone else. This Is Us. We're distinctively unique that way, just like you guys are. Yeah, I think there is a little bit of the the Aussie spirits over in Canada, you know. I would say so.

1:38 I would say we're probably closer to Aussie than maybe American, but it's always a delight to speak to Aussies, that's for sure. Wonderful, wonderful. Before we get into your first piece, I know that you've been, you know, working at the editing process for your your second book. What's it, what's it been like? Have you been kind of rushing to make deadline or are you heading into launch with a A level head? Thank you for asking, I nearly collapsed when I finally got my proof copy and it was perfect and even the local print shop was they kind of got worried for a second. Are you OK just because it's been a really arduous task this time?

2:21 Red Pill Rhymes was such a great success for me personally, but now I need to up the ante. And so I really wanted to make this really professional. And so line by line, you know, poem by poem, it was very arduous scrapping poems that I thought would have made it didn't make the cut. And maybe we'll never see the light of day just because it was a two year process and and you know, early on in those two years, you know, you're in a different spot in life. And some of these poems don't work. And safe to say I am done editing for now. You sound like a, you know, a ruthless director, like a Kubrick or something. It's going to be the perfect director's cut of Hope in the Black Hole.

3:05 Oh God, I mean, just today. And when I mean perfect it, I was still going back and forth on it just as a bracket, a use of a bracket. And I was like, should I keep this in here? And really, in the end, it doesn't even matter. Matter. But yeah, I'm, I'm letting it go. I am letting it go. Good, mate. There comes a point where it's, you know, a lot of artists talk about once a piece is out there, it no longer belongs to you, it belongs to everyone else. So that's right. Getting getting rid of every single typo before it gets out but then letting it go is such a great feeling I think. Oh, which is a perfect thematic compliment to really what the book is about it. It really is about letting go.

3:45 And so I got to practice what I preach here. Brilliant. Well, I'm looking forward to to talking more about the new collection. For now, we are keen to hear your first piece that you've brought with us today. Yeah, sure. So this is this is from my latest book. It's coming out late May. And yeah, I really want to start with that just because it's it's actually one that I had previously thought wouldn't make it made some changes, edited, and now it it feels like a real fresh, fresh poem again. So here we go. This is actually right at the beginning, close to the beginning.

4:26 What if the unearthed and exhaled could leave you more breathless if illuminated consciousness lit dens with a fiery fluorescent, a light that cauterized your sorrows and filled chasms of your essence with words that bring you to your knees in floor atonement. Still the mightiest ocean waters to harbour into past old distress provided you the pool of ink needed to see yourself more in introspect. Allowed you to pour over the allegory and heal your torn wreckage. Steering you refuge to a village full of love and total forgiveness.

5:08 Greeting you with familiar sounds and an echoed message. The cry from a new child as you realize you're born again. Wouldn't that be worth reading? Poems written as your legend. This is the Pen Redemption. This is the pan redemption. Oh, I love, I love a great line at the end that puts a a sealer and drops the mic and leaves you, leaves you thinking, leaves you, leaves it ringing in your head. So do I, Andrew, and and that's why I've, I've kind of geared my poems that way. My titles are always at the end of the poem and they and they always rhyme with the last word too. So I I love it because, and we can talk about this more, but sometimes you want to say an extra line. And perhaps because of I'm a poet, I could do it, but I don't want to write another line.

6:03 And sometimes that one word can just fill in that the whole piece, but also end off on such a perfect note. And yet I love twist endings. I'm a big film fan too. So we talked about Kubrick, but you know, I, I love A twist ending and sometimes that last word, even though it rhymes and it fits perfectly, actually makes you rethink what you've just read. And so you have to go back and kind of read it again. So thanks for thanks for letting me read that. No, no worries. Yeah, the recontextualization, the little, little bit of punctuation at the end there to to recontextualize it all. You're now about to be a veteran of two poetry collections, but I want to jump in The Time Machine for a second.

6:48 How did you get started with this art form? What's your origin story of of starting to share your creative work widely? Yeah, I mean, it started way back in high school. I think just being an introvert and you know, well, probably even before then, actually, if you think about it, I was, you know, as a mischievous child, maybe being grounded. And, you know, dad was really keen on me reading, but I'd really just like writing. And the only thing I did read was a dictionary. So I would just read the dictionary. I would just make rhymes. And so I guess it started there. And then I started writing short stories and it, and it kind of went through high school. But then, you know, life hits you and you're in school and university and all these things and you kind of forget. And I just, I just left it I and, but it's always the case when something tragic possibly happens to you in your own world or you know, your world comes crashing down from various circumstances, you revert back to what you know and, and what got you through.

7:53 And I, I just started writing, I would say probably maybe 7-8 years ago, I really started getting into poetry. And it was actually just more of an F you because I was on social media and I was seeing all these kinds of poems that had not seen Instagram poetry, you would call it. And I was kind of getting angry because nobody was reading my short stories. And so I was like, I think I could do this. I can write poetry like this. And so I started writing poems really out of spite, like, OK, here you go. And people started liking it. And they're very cheeky. And, and I was, in fact, at the time, I was using props in my drawer. So I would just pull out a random prop, whether it was a, you know, a pair of scissors or matches or a piece of string.

8:36 And I was, OK, let's challenge myself. Can I write a poem about this? And I'd write a poem, put the little prop on, take a picture of it and then share it. But people actually quite liked it. And, and that's kind of where it started. But just my fondness for words was reinvigorated through those those early poems on social media. So as much as I in some ways kind of put my nose up on some of this poetry, it really did is, is is provided a space for me to to share and, and find new love of it in a different way. And so for someone who didn't really enjoy poetry, now that's pretty much all I read, all I read and write.

9:20 And it's, yeah, it's it's been such a journey. It's been great. And you said this started seven or eight years ago, which is interesting because I can't recall anything that was happening in the wider world 7-8 years ago that might have caused someone to start making art. I don't know. Yeah, well, and that that really that also spiked the passion too. I, it was just after some, some personal turmoil perhaps that I started and then, you know, the world went upside down for a while. And that was when I, I, I, I really found a passion for it, a purpose for it, because it goes beyond then just getting a few likes on Instagram or, or making a cheeky poem that was just maybe a little bit funny.

10:06 I felt now I had to turn my poetry into something that had more meaning and substance behind it. And in the case of, of me personally, I'm just, I'm very passionate about free speech and being able to say what you want to say, especially as a writer. And so when things were starting to go sideways and, you know, people were getting cancelled on in the Internet and certain writers were being punished for saying things that were true or, or honest and open. And maybe they, maybe they were embellished or maybe they were not true. It doesn't really matter. I, I, I still think there's a place for, for free speech and to be able to say these things. So that's what, where I really poured some of my energy in with red pill rhymes.

10:51 And, and, and that was my sort of way in, in an Orwellian, an ode to Orwell, if you will, to have this sort of this piece, this legacy piece. I, I felt it was perfect. I, I really wanted to write a poetry book. I wanted something out. And you know, everyone's at home can't go to work or we can't do anything. I thought this was the perfect time to do it. So, and I'm a huge fan of The Matrix. And so that's where Red Pill Rhymes was born. So it was a combination of my own personal struggles with mental health and, and, you know, just the everyday stuff and, and maybe the fact that I had not found my passion of writing it and I'd only recently found it, plus the world going upside down. And that's that's where it kind of it all came. Good stuff.

11:41 I want to quickly talk about that term. You know, you went with the title Red pill rhymes, right? Which is quite provocative because, you know, we see that the term red pill has kind of been Co opted by, you know, manosphere groups and stuff like this. So I'm just wondering, it sounds like, you know, did you did you face any like pushback or, or anything from anyone going oh, what, what's what's this all about or, or anything like that? I didn't really receive too much pushback at the time. I think Red Pill definitely has taken on some other wildly crazy things in terms of meaning. But when I wrote the book and when I was writing the book, it was really just the idea of, of waking up to not only the truths in the world, the stuff that's been hidden from humanity, whether it's, you know, corruption, government corruption, or, you know, censorship or, or, or, you know, worse, along with a personal awakening to your, your own passion and purpose.

12:49 That's what the book was about. And the red pill. And yes, of course there's, there's matrix connotation in there. And I, and I'm, well, I was definitely OK with that because it's one of my favorite movies. And that's really what the movie was about. And now you know, it, it's taken on a completely different tone. And so the question becomes, you know, do I just not, you know, pretend that book doesn't exist or, or take it down. And just like everybody else in that period of time who's an artist, many poets were writing about that specific time. And so I would say that this book is for that specific time, even though it has timeless elements and ideas in it.

13:35 That was sort of an embodiment of what was going on in the world. And that's that. And, and beyond all that is, is sort of beyond my control. I haven't had any pushback from from the name. And I think it it's meant to go to the people that are, you know, meant to have it. And I'm OK with that. Yeah, and I, I really like that notion of, of waking up, you know what I mean? Like that is that is almost a universal thing that I think we all we all kind of want in a way, you know, we want our perception of the world to line up with its actuality or as close as we can get to it. I guess the question becomes like, what do we wake up to?

14:17 You know, when we see that term Co opted by by manosphere, You know, I think they're talking about, Hey, you're waking up to seeing that the whole world is against you and, you know, women are inferior and, and, and, you know, kind of that incel culture kind of thing. Whereas it could mean waking up to the beauty around you or, you know, the fact that that, you know, you're loved or that there's, there's wonderful things out there. I guess it all comes down to like what you are waking up to I suppose. Oh yeah, totally it. And I think when you if you dissect the book down to its chapters and sections, there is a a point where it it's supposed to emulate the journey that most people have when they not not so intricately, but loosely in a journey path. It's this idea that you are going through a struggle and like something's, you know, awful that's happening to you and you're forced to usually do things on your own. And you come to this realization that, Oh my goodness, I've been living a life of a lie.

15:24 And usually it's a personal one. And yet after you go through it, you realize, Oh my goodness, I've been conditioned to think this way based on the environment that I live in, or it's my parents or, Oh my gosh, the government controls or, you know, it could be anything. And and so the, the, that's really how the the flow of the book is. And so you see a person who is completely down and out and then starts to wake up to all these realizations, but ultimately understands that no one's coming to save you but your yourself.

16:05 And so the book ends off on that idea that you really are master of your own ship. And so I think if people want to take that sort of out of context, I mean, it's it's that's really it. But I understand why somebody would, just by looking at the title, not maybe not dig into it if they have a certain perception. But ultimately, if you think about it, that's probably the person which should probably read the book anyway. Yeah, that's kind of where that where that ties into. Wonderful. And it just shows the enduring nature of like, you know, the Matrix film that was ahead of its time and that whole thing of like, you know, Neo's waking up to to, you know, a pretty horrific world in in his case, his specific case. And then, of course, the philosophical question of, you know, do you want, do you want a comfortable lie or do you want to live fully in truth?

16:58 And, you know, we can talk about those things for all time, I'm sure. Oh. Gosh, yeah. Yeah, but Red Pill Rhymes is now a couple of years old and you've you've grown since then and you're ready to unleash your second collection, which is called Hope in the Black Hole. It's it's out now by the time this this episode comes out. That's right. What What personal experiences most significantly influenced this second collection? Over the last four years, we've had a lot of fear in the world and that has permeated all of us in some capacity. And that's led to a lot of anger, vitriol, very divisive society in, in, in many countries, I'm sure in Australia, definitely here.

17:45 And and so I felt just the where my own journey was, but also what what I could be doing as service to someone that might be hurting is write a book about healing. Because actually that's all we really we're all in need of some deep healing right now. And I think it would be pretty easy for me to write another red pill as type book because of all the anger that's going on in the world and even more corruption that's being put to light. But then I just felt personally, very intuitively, soulfully that it wasn't doing myself service and wasn't doing God service and it wasn't really doing my community service. So this was something that I just naturally felt compelled to write.

18:53 And it wasn't as if I knew Hope in the Black Hole was the culminating end of what was two years worth of writing. I didn't know this. I just saw where my writing and felt where my writing was going and I realized there's a lot of one specific tone that I was writing about quite clearly. And many of pointed this out to me that in one of the reasons they follow or list or read my poems is hope, and that Ioffer a lot of healing and hope in in my poetry. That doesn't mean I I don't wander off and and write about other things the odd time I certainly do, but they've just noticed a big shift. And when my followers, you know, message me and and you know, the community that that is like really intrigued with my writing, which I'm I'm so grateful for. And then they all tend to sort of notice that shifting, they're really excited about it and, and understand why I'm writing like the way I do.

19:59 It's, it's very, I try to be as wholehearted as possible and genuine. And it just represents the shift that I have personally, I just, I didn't feel it was the right time to write in a manner that was perhaps contributing to more fear and more anger and. And so that's I just, I made sure that this book specifically had no swearing and didn't talk about any of the things from Red Pill that would contribute to that. So I'm very proud of it. I'm very proud of it because I know when somebody holds it, it's a very much more of an intimate experience now as opposed to Red Pill. I did feel it was exciting and it really does fire someone up in a different way.

20:53 This this experience was far more intimate. I wanted to be more intimate, especially like I just read The Alchemist a couple a year ago or whatever for the first time. And so that was a very pivotal book for me. And I'm not a huge reader, but that one was really great. And, and so I wanted that feel even right down to the way the book is printed. I wanted to feel that that same sort of alchemist. Oh, it was just powerful, but soft that I, I think when people pick up this book and then and, and they have it in their hands and then they feel the pages, it's, it's especially if they've, they've already read Red Pill and they have it, they're going to see quite a difference. The, the pages aren't white.

21:44 The pages are off white, they're cream colored, they're softer. This book itself is much smaller. It, the book itself is shorter in terms of pages, but also in terms of word count. It's like half. And I just wanted somebody to hold this and say, I can pick this up. So while it's still reads like a story in a sense, I always wanted to make sure that you could pick up any page and read it for the poem that it that it was. So I was very, very careful in how I chose my poems. But also, I love stories. I love, I'm a storyteller. So I don't think I could just write a poem, a book, just with random poems and just throw them together. This is a journey.

22:31 And there is, I don't want to say A twist, but there is something that's happening and I'm just yeah, thank you for this is the first podcast, right, that we're talking about this book. So I'm just I'm unloading all this on you that. That's wonderful. I can feel, you know, the pride that you have in this work coming through. And I think it's very honourable of you, Ravi, to say, hey, I wanted to do something that would serve, that would serve humanity in some small way. You know, we've, we've had red pill rhyme and we've had, you know, these these kind of years of kind of getting a bit fired up. And this is the the down regulation this. Is that's right?

23:13 This is the This is the deep breathing that. That follows breathing, that's correct. You're not the first guest I've had that has a love for The Alchemist. I, I, I really need to, to read this. I understand it's been very influential in it's kind of mythic qualities, kind of hero's journey, riffing on that, like like so much great literature. I really specifically wanted to make this a journey as well, just random poems. So this is about my journey, but it's told in a cosmic way. And so I'm just really excited and, and I hope, I hope people really enjoy that alchemist feel of it. It's a great title too, because in a way, you know, you think about a black hole.

23:57 It's it's nothing escapes it, you know, not even light and everything's kind of collapsing in it. So to say that you can have hope do have hope in the middle of something like that, it almost seems like a tautology. But that, that makes it, I think, even more important I suppose. Yeah, it's clearly just, it's it's a massive metaphor. Massive metaphor. Supermassive black hole maybe? Yeah, that's right. That's what it feels like when we're at our darkest moments, for sure. And I've been there. And so I, you know, I really wanted to, to create something that would, that people could resonate with on multiple levels. And one being that it can feel like a black hole and very dark, very elusive.

24:46 And when you try to, when you do research of black hole, it gets super complicated and confusing and you're back to square 1 and trying to figure everything out. So it's, there's a lot of dark matter, so to speak. The idea, the contrasting of putting light there with hope, I thought was just really interesting. And it sounds like you're a film lover too. But I got to say, like I play the Interstellar soundtrack while writing this book. I probably played that, I, I kid you not, 500 times. I've probably for two years straight listen to the entire soundtrack everyday while writing this book.

25:29 So this has such a heavy influence along with The Alchemist. That movie has such a profound Tarantino like influence on this on this book because I love Christopher Nolan and I love his storytelling, but that movie is the best movie of all time in my opinion. And when oh, I got to see it on IMAX again when they re released it. I just I love the story in that there's hope there. And so you will see themes of that in here as well, which is really great. I'd also, I want to put this, I know I'm probably overshooting this a little bit, but I really love testing the audience a little bit or a reader, sorry, because there's going to be probably some words that not everybody understands and that's OK. And I actually quite like that because that represents my process, because I think we were going to possibly talk about my process a little bit, but a lot of the process that I have is trying to understand a concept more than just using a word for a rhyme, let's say.

26:42 So if I'm going to put a word in that rhymes that is a scientific one or whatever, something that's really complicated, I need to understand what that topic is. And so then I'll do a deep dive into that topic. So if we're talking about process, yeah, like that's, that's just kind of how I do it. So I will spend time researching that topic, understanding that topic. And yeah, Chad's been great for that for, for understanding topics and, and just getting me straight to the answers and that way I know it. But you know, also some deeper dives in that and watching videos and I have some Carl Sagan books that I can refer to and just the exploration of, of, of space, but spirituality, not in the hijacked sense, but just the spiritual realm and the, the metaphysical is, has been quite it. It, it is quite extraordinary.

27:39 And it's, the book doesn't even cover what, what's out there. But I think from just a one person's journey from it, I think it is going to resonate with a lot of readers. And there's going to be some terms there that people maybe don't understand and that's OK. And they can go look it up themselves. I actually like the idea that someone would do that. There's a way. I don't get that word. I'm going to look it up. And with the access that we have, the information and the pace that we can get that information, I just don't see any reason why somebody wouldn't do it. And so I'm hoping they do, because I know some books will put, you know, footnotes or whatever the bottom and try to define something And, and that's fine.

28:21 You, absolutely. But it's also kind of fun to just assume that they either know everything or they have the the wherewithal to just look it up themselves. So yeah, yeah, it's going to. That part's fun, too. To, to spark that curiosity that someone might end up, you know, picking up a, a Stephen Hawking or a Neil deGrasse Tyson or something and, and dive into, you know, astrophysics or, or whatever the, the case may be. Right. Yeah, yeah. Ravi, do you have any like recurring, I guess, symbols or metaphors that appear in your poetry and that you know hold special meaning for you? Does that form part of your language?

29:02 Besides thematically, hope is probably the biggest one. But in terms of specifics, oh gosh, I suppose that's why I wrote some of this book because a lot of, you know, space metaphors were were just, you know, being downloaded at night in my mind. And and I'd have to get up in the middle of night and and write things down South stars the sun, definitely. But I do a lot of other poetry, so I can't really specify because I love, I love plants and animals. And, and just again, using combining if, if people were ever curious as to the process or if they were stuck in writer's block, my goodness.

29:47 Like literally pick any plant on the planet. And I guarantee you, you can turn that into a metaphor about life, about relationships, about yourself. And there's probably things that you can convey using that plant about, about your own life with really cool expression. And, and I can do that. And that's how I do it with stars or, you know, planets or whatever it may be, black holes, anything it there's a poem called No Air and, and, and, and so really nothing can also be something. And so I wouldn't say there's anything specific that comes back besides the theme of hope. I do feel that's my calling right now just based on what's going on with the world.

30:38 And so whether that is something that's based out of let's say plants or some sort of science or new discovery or whatever, I, I usually try to connect it back to some way that there's hope. And I think poets and and, and Mystics and all these kind of people have been contrasting, you know, the natural world around us, what we can observe with our humanity and our interior experience. So I think you're right. And, you know, living in the, the area of the world that you do, I'm sure you can step outside your front door and see all kinds of amazing things that are, that are going to feed that creativity and, and find new ways to communicate hope through imagery, through through symbolism, through metaphor.

31:24 No, that's great. Oh, I lo, yeah. And I love, you know, the influences really, I have to give thanks to or props to these amazing poets of our past, you know, Sufi poetry, Rumi, you know, I, I was, was really fascinated by those types of poets. And, and I'm just reading about so much more. You know, I'm a, I'm a late bloomer when it comes to poetry. As I told you, I, I kind of hated it like 8 years ago. And so I'm trying to catch up and, you know, people are going to laugh, but I only found out about Mary Oliver two years ago. I only started reading Bukowski like 4 years ago. I like all of this is new and even I pick someone up in at the thrift store, Tagore, who I found out was the one of the greatest Indian poets of all time, East Indian poets.

32:12 And I'm reading his stuff and just go, Oh my goodness, like where have you been all my life? And and those like you said, those that sort of mysticism, those types of poets really are exciting to me right now. And most times I felt their message was always hope. They were always sort of grounded in that hope. So. Good stuff. It must be such an exciting journey to, you know, you say you're playing catch up, but you get to see these things with new eyes, you know, with fresh eyes, I should say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fresh air and, you know, immature eyes. Yeah. You should see my book collection here. And don't ask me what I've read because it's not even close to what my book collection is. But it just keeps piling up because now when I go shopping for books, I look up almost every poet that I see in case I'm missing something. Because I remember doing, you know, not interviews, but having conversations with other writers. And they would say a poet and I'd say, who's that? And they would give me these bulgy eyes, like as if I had just landed here.

33:15 And, and I felt so embarrassed that I didn't know some of these the now I am not doing that. So what that means is I'm accumulating literally every poetry book ever made. But it is fun to kind of explore and and see like right now, who's on my shelf that I'm reading? Tagore is 1. EE Cummings is another one. I just got a small book from him. And it's just, it's just amazing. I can't believe how much I'm reading, you know, and as an educator who teaches grade 5 and and see the struggle that boys have with reading. And that was me as a kid.

33:57 Oh, really? Oh, even when I was a young man. But if somebody had just said, listen, try some poetry, it's not that long and maybe you might like it. And I just wish somebody had maybe said that to me. So now I specifically teach quite a bit of poetry in grade five. So the boys can at least, well, everybody, but specifically the boys. Look, you can still have fun with just this much reading. It's pretty good. That's great. Look, the in terms of the books, the obsession is real. You know, you got to you got to catch them all after a while. And look, I'll, I'll join you in the fact that I still feel like I'm on a discovery in terms of, of the, the performance poetry space of yeah, trying to learn about all these people that are here name dropped and, and, and speak to them.

34:48 You know, that's, that's partly what this this kind of project is about. And it's, it's a lot of fun. And that's really cool that that's now flowed through to to the classroom. I think there's still a lot of cliches about poetry being, you know, stuck in the past, you know, and, and not really accessible or exciting, but, you know, short pieces, pieces that you're writing, performance pieces out there. You know, there's some great Canadian slam poets who are, who are doing stuff that's that's emotionally engaging, visually engaging from a performance perspective. I think that's a that's a really important element, especially as our attention spans go go down the drain, you know? Right. Yeah. And actually, you know, as I was saying, I was, I kind of started poetry as out of spite, but now I look at some of these Insta poets and I'm, I'm actually quite grateful. I'm just so grateful, you know, So I, I mean, I like everybody's, but it's paved the way. And, and as some of my local bookshop owners have told me, you know, they may not like the Insta poetry too, but they realize that it, it, it tips their appetite. It just, it just the taste buds and eventually they do get to the Olivers and, you know, they do get to the Robert Frost and, and so they're, you know, I try not to be so judgmental about it, you know, whatever that may be, you know, and I, I would consider myself an insta poet, so to speak. I'm, I mean, that's where I kind of got a following. And but yeah, I, I did used to

36:20 have a lot of angst towards that, but now it's really shifted. I'm just really grateful for the platform and, and all they've paved the way for, yeah. And there's room for everyone, you know, I mean, I, I understand that the work of, you know, Rupee Kaur is, is a little bit divisive. And some people have, I think there's a whole book that's like a, a satire of, of milk and honey. And you know, that, that kind of style of poetry. But there really is room for everyone. And you never know how something's going to be received and, and what kind of doors it can open the people's literary imaginations and creative journeys. So that's right, I think. I think what we're saying is, you know, if you're listening to this and you're right, please just just bring what you have, bring it to the table, you know? That's right.

37:06 I mean, who knew I would be writing in lower case everything and now I try to write anything with any capital letters and it just looks awful to me. I cannot see it right. And even for a long time I was, I was toiling with the idea of do I put capitals on my title and my work now or and now I can't, I just can't. It doesn't look right to me. So thank you, Rupee. I am all lowercase now along with everybody else like, you know, young Pablo and everybody else. So it's just like whatever, you know, they influence you in a certain way. And you may not, you know, I don't know, absorb all of it or or want to, but they certainly had an impact.

37:52 Yeah, and it'll all come around again. There will be a capital letter revolution, you know, it'll, it'll, it'll all be capitals. It'll sound like we're all yelling at each other for a little bit. Oh my God, All the kids are saying no cap, right? Yeah. That's it, That's it. It'll come around. You can't suppress it for too long. Robbie, I'm really interested in your experiences. You speak about writing as a tool to help move or, or or remove or shift trauma and stress from the body. You know, this, this aspect of like trauma in the body or the body keeps the score. Like it's very popular at the moment in terms of people talking about like vagus nerve, people are talking about good nervous system regulation. Can you kind of speak to this and how writing fits into this for you and what you found?

38:40 Yeah, sure. I, I, I'm going to 1st would preface by saying I am not a somatic healer or you know, a doctor or anything like that. What I can tell you is my own experience and, and what I'm trying to do with workshops that basically tell people who are struggling that or show people sorry, that you can actually heal from past trauma through the ACT, the very act of writing. And it doesn't have to be a perfect poem. It absolutely could be journaling, it could be a free writing. And and so I think a lot of people are, are confused by that because they don't understand the connection between, well, how do you remove something that's maybe it's pain in the inner body.

39:29 When we speak somatically, it's actually, you know, trauma stored inside your body that you need to release, need to move. But there's a lot of things that it can do, and I wouldn't say that writing is the answer to someone's larger context issues that they may be struggling with. So I wouldn't say writing is going to solve those those issues. What I will tell you though is if you want to get into a place where your body is more parasympathetic and relaxed, which allows you to then actually feel into it. Go deeper.

40:13 And that's not to say that you should try to avoid your pain. I'm just simply trying to show people that there are different strategies with writing that can help you process this. And so like I said, one is the parasympathetic nervous system is just you're treating it like meditation. You're treating it like meditation. So that that pen that's writing is, is, is almost like breathing in some ways, But there's, there's like lots of other things like if you think about, let's say you've had chaotic experiences in your life and sometimes I can get very scrambly and confusing in your mind anxiety.

40:58 Well, when you write down things, you're actually organizing the chaos. So you're organizing the chaos into an experience that you can follow. And often times when you read through your writing, of course, sometimes it can be very messy and illegible and incoherent. But other times, if you're doing it the, you know, in a way that's meditative, you can actually get some really coherent thoughts down on paper. And I'm not talking poetically speaking, just just really incredible. When you read them back, you can just say, whoa, that's really impressive. Yeah.

41:42 Yeah, exactly. Clues. And then you can talk about the fact that you're perhaps going back into revisiting trauma as sort of an exposure, like exposure therapy, just, you know, slowly going back with it by writing down what happened, the experience, how you felt. And so while that's not, you know, for everyone, it's, it's, it's on paper. And so it's like a revisiting, but it's on your own terms. And so there's lots of different things that you can kind of go through. Those are just three. For me personally, it acts like meditation. So for me to sit and meditate is very difficult. I can do it, and if I've certainly paid for it in a guided meditation session, I am going to do it. But if I'm on my own, it's very difficult for me. But I can wake up at 4:30 in the morning or five in the morning and open the window, hear the birds chirping, sip on some tea, and I can write for two hours about things, anything. And for those two hours, it feels, it does really feel kind of time travel because you're talking about things that that might have happened to you in the past. And you're harnessing that into a really interesting poem per SE that doesn't have, that doesn't have to happen for most people. It doesn't have to turn it.

43:12 And So what I'm trying to do is share in that experience with, with workshops, but then also take that to the next level and say, actually, you do have a poem. And I'm going to show you how not only are you going to release some of this anxiety and stress and trauma right onto paper and what may look like incoherence or just a bunch of lines. Well, I'm going to show you how to turn that into a poem. And then you're going to be able to say to yourself, wow, I know how I can turn pain into creation. And when we do this, when, when we're able to process our pain and turn it into creation.

43:56 I mean, this is the pinnacle of artistry really. And honestly, it's it's So what a what a resounding feeling of joy. And then you take that poem. Let's say I'm going to take it a step further. You may not want to share that diary esque first, right, of what you wrote down to anyone except for yourself, which is very helpful. But then you turn that into a poem and then you share that with a friend or family member or maybe even online. And now you've created community. You've created community with someone on what you thought was maybe a very alone feeling.

44:41 So you went all the way from your body, wherever it was, that pain, and you took it and you made something out of it that was tangible that somebody could understand and even be moved by. And that is just such a beautiful thing. What a beautiful thing. And so that's what the workshops going to be about this summer. I'm, I'm, I have a few workshops lined up and it's, it's, it's just that I'm just very excited about it. And yeah, hopefully that that answers. Yeah. Oh, that sounds great. That sounds like something I'd, I'd definitely be into your students. You know, nowadays, I don't know how much handwriting students do nowadays. I'm sure it's a fraction of what it used to be. But do you think that maybe when we're, we're not handwriting as much as we used to, we're not doing that slow, you know, that really slow meditative writing work, like you said? Do you think that is causing issues with regulation that that everything is just on hyper speed all the time? I mean this is not an original thought, but what? What are your thoughts?

45:47 No, I think you're right. You bet you're like the pen. That instrument is more than just the pen. And honestly, if you look at anything that's happening right now, whether it for in terms of learning and expansion, so much of it actually has to do with writing. So you're when you're at a, even if it's some work, a different type of workshop or you're trying to do some learning in a class. I mean, most of it, it is actually saying here, write this down or you need to write this or K, get your thoughts down on this. And a lot of people struggle with this and kids too these days absolutely struggle with this.

46:28 And it's it's twofold. 1 is we're coming out of a the pandemic era, me specifically, were I teach grade 5. This is basically the last year of the people that were affected by that up and down craziness of of and, and how it impacted education. And so now you have like a one or two year blip where they're just typing when they actually should have been printing and writing. And that then forwards through and, and their behavior and their routines. And so I absolutely see this, I feel, you know, even with my students that they're going to get, they get tired when printing.

47:13 The endurance level is not even, you know, 30 minutes of writing, for instance, would be this is just a struggle. And it's not their fault. It's that we just we, we have changed the way we are educating students. There's a lot more tech based stuff out there. Some of it's useful, some of it might be overkill. And you know, there is a big push to get back into script writing and and handwriting. It's important. And hopefully other teachers are doing the same. I know I am. But yeah, for sure it's it's a struggle. And, and so not only the, the active, sorry, not only the, the knowledge to do script writing, but also the ACT it's, it's both, it's twofold.

47:59 The motor skills aren't there for it. And this effects their attention spans, their ability to regulate, their ability to calm down. I do feel just like maybe my workshops are geared, are geared for adults in trauma, but and, and, and anxiety. But actually, you know, I tell my students to journal every night if they can as just a way to, to get that, get their feelings out, express what they maybe you didn't have a chance to say. It's just a wonderful thing. And then to look back at their writing is it's just incredible practice and routine. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, some great points there. Great points there.

48:39 Wonderful. Ravi. I think we're ready for piece #2. Sure. Yeah, this one actually, I think I might have even. Yeah, I did mention the title of this one, but I'll leave it at the end so this is further into the book. Thanks for the space to read this for you there, Andrea. Really appreciate that. Take me there. For I am just a blinking spirit and eternally damned, existing in and out of this world, this earth and land. One I have hardly walked and now supposedly stand beyond repair, with nothing left to give except another last ditch effort, prayer and my long journey in Wayfair. Take me there, to that abode of darkness before heaven's steps, where every dog lies after whimpering its final dutiful breath.

49:33 Not a man aching and whispering the sounds of infinite regret, but where violin strings pull me under the tide so my jealousy, ego and anger die in a muted tear. Like me there so I am no longer gasping and grasping to life like I'm half drowned in whiskey and wine that endlessly spilled from my own undoing. Bring the Blizzard from which hell froze over my heart. Solidify all creatures and flowers. Everything is cold and abysmal as I leave nothing to spare. Take me there. I want to be floating free from the gravity of anxiety that has hindered my body and mind so much that I can't even function.

50:16 Pull me out of the cavity of my core assumptions, release the restrictiveness and discomfort that plagues me like a pain virus caught in a pandemic. For the unaware, my bones need reprieve from fear and trauma that seem to be stored. I'm hoarding every ache for a later day like some dooms there who will never be ready for the end or prepared. Take me there, where Silver Linings that trace shadows from light have also disappeared and stars go to die alone in their own particle matter tares the place of absolute nothingness, to which even hope may just be too out of reach from the ultimate struggle and despair. Take me there nowhere.

51:09 Thank you for taking us there, Ravi. Thanks, Andrew. We, we've talked about many cosmic mysteries today. We'll, we'll talk about another one, the mystery of creativity and the creative process. I'm just wondering if you can shed any light or any further light on like how you personally go with actually putting a a piece together and refining ideas into something cohesive. I love this because I love talking about it only because I'm sure other people do the same thing as I do, but I don't know, I just love taking something that I see and sometimes it's just a word or it's just a sight.

51:53 So one of my late latest poems was called Dandelion Dreams and the only reason dandelion came to my mind was because, well, dandelions are everywhere right now. It's the season. And I just thought, well, this would be interesting to understand dandelions a bit more. And so, yeah, I just read up on dandelions. And so I would just research dandelions, try to understand what, you know, their, their life cycle is. And like, to the extent that I wanted to because I've seen bees on them before, but I wanted to understand why bees choose a dandelion instead of something else. And so I thought, oh, is, you know, do dandelions have sweet nectar in them?

52:37 Because it doesn't seem right because isn't that a bitter plant? I mean, eat dandelions very bitter. So then I had to Google that and understand the dandelion nectar and it's actually quite sweet with for a bee. And then I researched more and more and realized that bees only use dandelions for, for sort of a temporary food source until more plants bloom. And so it's acts of this sort of intermediatory, like food source for bees, They'll take it. I love researching and understanding that. And I just, I wanted to write about, you know, a bee, a bee on, on a, on a dandelion.

53:20 But then how could I make that so much more interesting? Well, we could talk about if the bee, you know, fell in love with the dandelion and of course that represents maybe 2 lovers that were never meant to be. I know there's two different subspecies here. We're talking about different subspecies. But but if you catch my drift. And so I, it was just so fascinating to write about something like that and then add a spiritual component. So I love the most fun I have is when I mix science and spirituality together because that's when I was going to my own struggles. Those are the books in the figures and the talks and the writings and the teachings that would that would always speak to me.

54:06 And so I guess why some people, you know, believe in the Bible and and other spiritual works as the definitive. I also understand why somebody would just pick up a textbook and say that's the definitive. But for me, it's when you can blend them together and see a bridging between them two. I absolutely love that. And so, you know, someone like Bruce Lipton, you know, Joe Dispenza, these, these guys are just like the pinnacle of kind of blending those two together and, and Zach Bush and, and all these guys. So I just love when that happens. And so I've I've, I've definitely incorporated that into my writing. So it's just like a two-part thing. There's a feeling that I get and it's an emotional one and it's a deep down 1, and you could call it a spiritual one, but then I mix it with, you know, science.

55:03 Oh, I love that. And again, those are waters that I really like to swim in as well. Like how you were saying about, you know, black holes, astrophysics and all that. It sounds to me like your process is is rooted in this beautiful kind of curiosity. You know, you see something, you want to learn more about it. Why do bees go for dandelions? That makes no sense at first look, you know, and you learn a little bit more and it helps you make new connections, new connections within your own human experience and life, you know, for a creative or for a writer. Do you think curiosity is just one of those must have things in your tool bag?

55:46 Oh, for sure. I think all poets and writers have a natural curiosity and instinct to, to learn. I, I think you, you have to have that. And so I'm always interested in challenges to further my writing. And so if it's a topic that I don't understand the thirst to try to go deeper and further with that, it's just a natural instinct for me. You know, there's this, we, we talk about writer's block and often writers will talk about that and I understand why somebody would believe in that. But I think if you have a natural inclination to try to learn things about anything and there's so much out there, then there's endless possibilities to write. You know, I, I could just, when people DM me on Instagram and say, I'm struggling with writer's block, what do you, what would you suggest to say literally stop what you're doing?

56:38 Go to any bookstore or any thrift store, open any book at random and just read something and about anything and you will be inspired. In fact, I almost wanted to. I might still do this one day. I might take a picture of an entire bookshelf where the spines are out and take all the titles and use the titles in a poem and show that literally inspiration can be, it's anywhere. It's literally anywhere. And if anybody who's following me or, or you know, starts following me from the podcast, I've actually started experimenting with blackout poetry as well. So it's sort of the reverse thinking where the words are already there for you, you just have to choose the ones you want.

57:25 And so that's an excellent I found for quote UN quote writer's block. If you're just kind of stuck, just grab a newspaper or a magazine. The words are already there. You just black out the ones you don't want. So I've been posting more of those lately and I'm having a good time with it. It's really fun. And just as a specific way to create, you know, I'm trying to learn and I know hope in the black hole is is a rhyming poetry book. But as my writing expands, I can tell already that eventually we're going to get to more prose and non writing poetry. Well, I'm so so part and parcel of that now.

58:07 I'm so into rhyme schemes that it's almost difficult for me to not rhyme. And so blackout poetry has really helped me because that is next to impossible to make a rhyming poem out of a blackout poetry and a newspaper. So it forces me to just make a, a, a small poem that is not rhyming. And it's really good for me. And that's just a perfect example of that thirst that that that natural curiosity for, for learning about the craft. But also like we talked about space and exploration that way. It was just, it was fun to learn about some of these concepts. Yeah. And you got to realize that curation is also creativity. You know, you don't need to always be, you know, making something from the ground up.

58:58 You know, when you, well, I know that when I like make a playlist or something, I'm not just chucking things together. I put real thought into that, you know, and it's the same with blackout poetry. You are curating the words and the flow of them from something that's already provided. So I think it's important to not take that for granted. And you might, you might find that helpful for, again, just refuelling the engine a little bit for your own, for your own creative work as you engage with different things. So those are some like fantastic tips there, yeah. Thanks. Yeah. Well, hopefully somebody gets something out of that for sure. Yeah, Ravi, what's what advice would you offer to young poets?

59:40 So maybe you do this with your, your students, but what advice would you offer to young poets who are trying to find their voice in a world that is now flooded with content and not just content from real flesh and blood creators. But you know, we talk about insta poetry now being flooded with machine stuff and, and, and how much is going to be AI generated in in the future? I just read this morning that I mean, I don't have a Netflix subscription anymore, but apparently Netflix wants to roll out like AI generated mid roll ads for people in the middle of their viewing. And I just, I roll my eyes at all of this. I'm just like, where are we going with this? So do you have any wisdom or advice about people trying to find their voice in a world flooded with noise?

1:00:24 Yeah, that's a difficult one because I, I'm, I'm really struggling with that sometimes too, especially when you're against AI and you can tell possibly that some people use AI for their work more than others and they're not being perhaps honest with it. But if we're just talking about a flood of information and content, there's, there's two separate things. Well, there is a lot of information and content. But I think if you go back to the reason why you're writing in the 1st place and it really shouldn't be for someone else, it really shouldn't be. And the curating part and the editing part, maybe.

1:01:05 But when you're actually writing, that's your voice. And so I always tell people to to stay true to your own voice because you are a unique individual and we need unique individuals in this world. And so if you're just going to be like everyone else, well, you're just contributing to the avalanche that's already happening of, of information, right? And I've been really fortunate enough to, yes, look at other people's work and say, damn, that's good or no, I don't want to be like that. But I, I've always kept true to who I am and I and what my, what I stand for, but also my voice. If you stack my poems against other people's poems, you know, and if you know me or you know something and you stack them, you would inevitably know that, that that's, that's an RK Gandhi poem.

1:01:55 That's what I want. That's an RK Gandhi poem for sure. And I love that. And you and a person who is trying to, you know, gain, gain a following, gain some, some readership, it's your own unique voice is going to stand out. And this life is just about letting go. So if we can agree that it's just about letting go, whether it was like our, our old pattern, thoughts or behaviors, letting go past relationship, all this stuff, all these layers that we have, ultimately what that means is the more you let go, the more unique you will be. Like you're not going to be like everyone else the more you let go. So you have to sort of let go of the idea that, Oh my gosh, you know, where's my following?

1:02:42 How come no one's adding me or how come who's reading my if you could like that, go and just write from the core. That is going to stand out. And you can just tell when you go on go online and you read the, the, the really magical writers on there. It, it, they're completely different, completely different than everyone else always. And that's not some sort of design. Like you can't fake that unless you're AI, but like you can't really fake that. And so that part is I always try to tell them, you know, be true to your own voice in terms of the fact that AI is just writing everybody's poems or, you know, filling in the gaps with everything.

1:03:28 It's so difficult now and I don't know where it's going. I used to be really, really afraid of AI, like maybe last year. I'm hopeful though. I'm actually quite hopeful that the shortcuts and the the answers that it'll provide kind of lays this weird framework for people to find themselves. But there is this sort of realm of unknown with it. And that can be scary. But I'm sort of letting that one go as well, you know, while also keeping half an eye on it too, just in case I need to write a sequel to Red Bull Rhymes about that kind of stuff. Yeah. That's a good point.

1:04:11 I think in general, my, my hopes for the AI thing are that we move towards a world where, you know, I, I don't want AI to do my creative work for me so that I can wash my dishes. I want AI to wash my dishes so I can do more creative work. And I think that's probably the heartbeat of many creatives. And yet at the moment, at this very moment, I think it'll change. But at this very moment, we are seeing it more as as plugging creative holes and and kind of mass production of content. That's a that's a dirty word that we hear all the time. You know, content and even even the fact I like how you lead with saying make your writing for you and develop your voice, because you know, it comes back to that cliche of like be a first class or first rate version of yourself, not a second rate or second class version of, of a Mary Oliver or, or someone else.

1:05:03 You know, and, and do the writing for you. You know, the whole thing of being able to easily, you know, all the barriers to mass sharing of, of work are now down, but that's a very, very new thing. Do you know what I mean? So obviously take advantage of it if you want. But yeah, I mean, I, I have to constantly be aware of, of the trap of, of thinking, you know, compromising on vision for, for trying to make something that's that's, you know, more mass appealing. I think everyone faces that once you're out doing stuff. Oh, for sure, It's a it's a constant conundrum for sure. You know, definitely wrestled with that. But it doesn't matter if, if, if, if the themes change and and you're going to change yourself over the years anyway. So really your voice, if it's done, if, if you're being authentic, it will bleed through no matter what theme you're writing.

1:06:03 And so even when you compare red pill and and hope in the black hole, you're going to see a thread between them for sure. And it's not just lowercase, it's there. There's a threat and you can tell that's my voice. And it doesn't matter if the what I'm talking about differs. So yeah, it's it's going to be tough, but we'll see for sure. I like what you said there. I mean, we're in this sort of weird stopgap, aren't we, where we do want it to do the dishes, but it can't yet. And so, well, maybe it'll write my essay for me or whatever. And, and this is the issue right now, but for sure it's going to be a point where it does your dishes or whatever you want, whatever it may be.

1:06:48 Maybe it's just the fact that it's, you know, the Internet is so fast and so that's kind of the territory that it's hit first and kind of that slower, more considered approach might, might come later, but I don't know. I'm, I'm curious, I'm interested. I try not to get too freaked out, you know, but we'll see. We'll see. It's it's an exciting time to be a person. That's that's right. Yeah. It's a great time to be a human, yes? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ravi, what's what's next for you in the next season? What what do you have coming up for the remainder of 2025? You've mentioned obviously the book is now out there doing it. That's the thing. You've mentioned some of these workshops you're running. Is.

1:07:28 Is there anything else you want to cast a light on? Yeah, aside from the workshops, which I'm really excited for and, and just working on more performance based stuff. So not only being able to teach, but perform the words in in a really incredible, powerful intimate setting would be what we're going for. That should probably happen more in the fall and, you know, leading into the, you know, just past the new year, obviously we'll be working on another book, but community is going to be the big thing for me. So I think with my first book, I kind of bypassed my local community and that was just maybe out of necessity at the time. The pandemic area can't do much, can't meet anyone. And so I just kind of bypassed my local community and the arts community and all these events and, and beautiful, beautiful spaces for online.

1:08:22 And I'm thankful because I have an online community now and it's, it's wonderful to, to meet so many people. But so I'm kind of diverting back to, if you want to call it the roots, more community based stuff, community based performances and, and workshops and gatherings, open mics and hosting open mics and, and all sorts of those types of things. And I'm actually quite excited because I just jumped over those things. And like I said, I'm, I'm a new poet, so to speak. And so going back into the things I probably should have started with, it feels incredibly new. And it's a, it's exciting, a little bit of a little bit of unknown there, but I'm just, that's what I'm really pumped for these very intimate spaces, growing readership that way and and connecting with amazing, amazing people who love poetry, but also other poets that I just didn't have a chance to meet in the in the past few years.

1:09:25 And, and now I can. So that's what's going on. That's what's happening for me for sure. Oh good, so you're making up for lost time in the in the real like grass roots area? Good. Yeah, that's right. We now return to the overarching analogy that we've been using in Season 2 of I Think Therefore I Slam. We're going to get a bit musical here. OK? If your creative work was an instrument in an orchestra of creativity, what instrument do you think it would be? Oh my goodness, If we can include a drum in there, I'm going to go with that. And the only reason is I don't know why, but I'm seeing a lot of Whiplash videos on my feet lately. Yeah, no, it's not quite.

1:10:21 It is such an awesome movie. Yeah, I I would say I'm a drum. And the reason I say that is because mainly because of that movie, but also I just feel it's the closest one to the heartbeat in terms of making that. And we as poets really need to be striking from the heart. And it's all, you know, there's something to be said about craftsmanship and just pure writing talent, but the heartbeat. And so I was in the heartbeat of the orchestra would be, you know, like the heartbeat of poetry. So I'm going to go with that one. I just came up with that. I don't know. That sounds pretty good. Yeah, yeah.

1:11:03 And look, a drum in an orchestra is fine. We are not. We are not beholden, dear listener. You would know that. We are not beholden to whatever is in a traditional orchestra. This is our own thing. OK, so. And there's nothing like, you know, going to a live music event and really feeling the, you know, the kick drum go vibrate through your body. You know, it's a wonderful thing. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, I love it. And the and the snares. We now, we now are entering the, the section of the podcast shamelessly ripped off Diary of a CEO. We call it's Diary of a POET. You've been left a question, Ravi, from my previous guest. So this question comes from Joe Macero, who asks, has there been a moment where you have felt like things are falling apart in performance or in life and something has turned around that darkness into transformation?

1:12:00 What did that look like for you? It's a it's a big one, big one to chew on. Everything's been so I'm, I'm just so grateful for everything that's happened to me. And that includes not at the time, but you know, I'm just always going to go back to my low. I would say the lowest I have felt, which in hindsight was the best thing that ever happened to me. And that is just probably close to a decade ago now where I was extremely anxious. I was living in fear. I was basically living in a state of fear and I'd lost so much weight. I didn't even look like myself.

1:12:46 I was, quite frankly, I think people should know that I, I was down to, I'd lost like 3040 lbs. I think it was down to maybe like 114 lbs. It was really, really skinny compared to what it was. And it was just wasn't really eating very well and it wasn't holding anything in. And it was just really no sleep and basically culminated in four days, 3 or 4 days of no sleep whatsoever. Basically, you know, 5-6 hours total in maybe 4 days. And me on the floor, I remember shivering and just trying to figure out what what was going on with me.

1:13:31 And so that changed my life because I really did feel I was, I hit rock bottom. And of course, at the time I didn't feel that. But there was something in me that just, I don't know what it was, but it, it, it just pulled me right back up and started to change my life from the, you know, from everything, the way I eat, the way I move and exercise, the way how I see the world and, and basically a lot of health stuff. But going back to the roots of who I was writing, started writing on a regular basis again. And this is what when people say writing saved their life 100%. I still have thick booklets, journal booklets, two or three of them that I had written in every day for like a year to kind of track everything and how I was doing and express everything.

1:14:29 Writing literally saved my life. It wasn't poetry, but it was poetic in the way that it did that. And so I always tell people about that experience, that how writing can change you. There was a whole host of other things I had to do, like I said. And when I say writing saved my life, it's a metaphor, but also it put me on the right path. And so, yeah, I was doing other things with my health, but the writing was was so key for me. Yeah. That should. It changed the trajectory of my life. Yeah. So that I would say that was the lowest of lows. Everything else has been just. It changes you as a person. When you look at things, they're not quite as the downs aren't as down as much as you think they are.

1:15:14 And so even if there's minor hiccups with a book release or you know, you know, a performance mic not working or whatever it may be, those things are just, I don't view those now as as really anything major. I would say. I always refer back to that one. I'm really, I'm just grateful. So now, even for any little tiny blips that happened in my life now I'm just, I understand that's just the way it works. That's just the way this the ebbs and flows of life really. Wow. Thank you for sharing, Ravi, and, and that really solidifies that, you know, everything you've talked about here today comes from your, your personal experience in terms of, of finding new, new life, I guess through writing. So that's great, Ravi, if people want to find out more about you, follow you, follow along with the, the book's release and how it's going and, and previews and stuff like that. Where is the best places for people to go? OK, so for sure Instagram is my main social media hub there, so RK Gandhi, please check that out. Add me happy to chat, converse about writing tips, whatever you you may need and just converse about poetry is be great. I started Threads and that's actually quite surprisingly really good.

1:16:35 So you can definitely add me on Threads as well. And yeah, I was surprised by how good that was just because Twitter's become a really bit of a mess. But and also my website, you can go to ravikgandhi.com and you can check out my latest, my latest book there and all the information. So. But yeah Instagram is my main one and hope to see. Good stuff. And we'll have, you know, links to all of that in the episode description, along with a link to get your copy of Hope in the Black Hole. Now, I do have to peddle back a little bit. Ravi, sorry, I forgot to ask you you. Now I get to leave a question for my next guest sight unseen. What were you wanting to ask? OK, so I think I'm going to ask if you could choose a poet to embody from the past, who would it be and why? I'm going to go with that 1.

1:17:27 So it's a little bit different than just asking who your favorite poet is because sometimes those don't match up. So we're going to go with who would you want to embody and why? Yep. Oh, I like it because I guess you can, you can appreciate someone's writing to a very high degree, but you wouldn't necessarily want to kind of be in their skin for a day, let's say. Totally. Like, you know, we could talk about Hemingway. We also want someone like Bukowski. Like, I love Bukowski's writing, and maybe because it's just so different than my own, but I don't necessarily know if I could live like him. Yeah, good point. All right. Looking forward to hearing the answer to that one. Robbie, you're going to leave us with with one more piece before we say goodbye for today.

1:18:09 Sure, Yeah, ice. Memories of the past had burrowed in my veins. Water under a storm drain, covered on the coldest day. That is to say, the echoes of hurt felt sharp, like shards from frozen rain. I had to scrape the tears off just to recall my own face. So I tried other ways to numb the bitter emotions with sundered blow intake powder to escape blizzards while more whiteouts raged. But not today. Out of the loss from limbo, I learned to mold and shape my avalanche experiences and mountain snow terrain because I prayed for strength and protection and awareness to hold that Bay. A flurry of thoughts so light could melt the sorrow away until the sun came.

1:18:58 The thaw out layered glaciers transforming frigid landscape. Floods wash my abrasions cleaning old torn up scrapes. The warmth state rising me above Arctic annex For what I'd known as grave was not actually a deathbed, but story from hallowed cave where it was explained the instant I decoded what my omens were trying to say. This squaw was to renew love and a lesson for me on faith, The Tempest of fate. Wonderful, wonderful. Well, I am so looking forward to looking through this new collection. RK Gandhi, the new poetry collection is Hope in the Black Hole, available now.

1:19:43 Get your copy through the link in the episode description. Ravi, RK Gandhi, there it is. Thank you so much mate. It's been a pleasure speaking with you and thank you for thinking with us and slamming with us today. Appreciate you. Thank you.