R.K. Gandhi - "Hope in the Black Hole"

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We stand on guard for the
welcome to I Think.

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Therefore I slammed the podcast
bringing you the best slam

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poetry and spoken word artist
from around Australia and around

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the world.
And today the emphasis is on

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around the world.
We are taking a little trip in

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our magic rocket ship.
My guest today is a Canadian

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Indian poet, writer, and
educator living in Ontario,

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Canada.
He regularly performs and speaks

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about the power of poetry in
front of audiences and also runs

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workshops that integrate ideas
around healing from writing and

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how it may help dynamically
remove stress and trauma that is

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stored in the body.
His first book, Red Pill Rhymes,

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was renowned for his distinctive
blend of poetic, satire and

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dystopian themes and delved into
complex subjects such as trauma,

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love, spirituality, healing,
politics, and media.

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His sophomore release is called
Hope in the Black Hole, and it's

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ready to take us on a new cosmic
journey of healing coming to us

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live from not the 51st state of
the United States.

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Thank you very much.
And never will be.

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RK Gandhi Ravi, welcome to the
show.

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Oh, so good to be here.
Good to be with you, Andrew.

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Yes, we are our own country and
we have our own brand of

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everything here.
So yeah, we don't want to be any

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part of anyone else.
This Is Us.

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We're distinctively unique that
way, just like you guys are.

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Yeah, I think there is a little
bit of the the Aussie spirits

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over in Canada, you know.
I would say so.

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I would say we're probably
closer to Aussie than maybe

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American, but it's always a
delight to speak to Aussies,

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that's for sure.
Wonderful, wonderful.

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Before we get into your first
piece, I know that you've been,

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you know, working at the editing
process for your your second

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book.
What's it, what's it been like?

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Have you been kind of rushing to
make deadline or are you heading

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into launch with a A level head?
Thank you for asking, I nearly

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collapsed when I finally got my
proof copy and it was perfect

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and even the local print shop
was they kind of got worried for

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a second.
Are you OK just because it's

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been a really arduous task this
time?

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Red Pill Rhymes was such a great
success for me personally, but

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now I need to up the ante.
And so I really wanted to make

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this really professional.
And so line by line, you know,

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poem by poem, it was very
arduous scrapping poems that I

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thought would have made it
didn't make the cut.

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And maybe we'll never see the
light of day just because it was

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a two year process and and you
know, early on in those two

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years, you know, you're in a
different spot in life.

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And some of these poems don't
work.

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And safe to say I am done
editing for now.

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You sound like a, you know, a
ruthless director, like a

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Kubrick or something.
It's going to be the perfect

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director's cut of Hope in the
Black Hole.

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Oh God, I mean, just today.
And when I mean perfect it, I

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was still going back and forth
on it just as a bracket, a use

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of a bracket.
And I was like, should I keep

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this in here?
And really, in the end, it

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doesn't even matter.
Matter.

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But yeah, I'm, I'm letting it
go.

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I am letting it go.
Good, mate.

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There comes a point where it's,
you know, a lot of artists talk

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about once a piece is out there,
it no longer belongs to you, it

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belongs to everyone else.
So that's right.

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Getting getting rid of every
single typo before it gets out

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but then letting it go is such a
great feeling I think.

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Oh, which is a perfect thematic
compliment to really what the

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book is about it.
It really is about letting go.

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And so I got to practice what I
preach here.

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Brilliant.
Well, I'm looking forward to to

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talking more about the new
collection.

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For now, we are keen to hear
your first piece that you've

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brought with us today.
Yeah, sure.

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So this is this is from my
latest book.

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It's coming out late May.
And yeah, I really want to start

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with that just because it's it's
actually one that I had

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previously thought wouldn't make
it made some changes, edited,

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and now it it feels like a real
fresh, fresh poem again.

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So here we go.
This is actually right at the

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beginning, close to the
beginning.

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What if the unearthed and
exhaled could leave you more

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breathless if illuminated
consciousness lit dens with a

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fiery fluorescent, a light that
cauterized your sorrows and

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filled chasms of your essence
with words that bring you to

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your knees in floor atonement.
Still the mightiest ocean waters

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to harbour into past old
distress provided you the pool

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of ink needed to see yourself
more in introspect.

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Allowed you to pour over the
allegory and heal your torn

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wreckage.
Steering you refuge to a village

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full of love and total
forgiveness.

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Greeting you with familiar
sounds and an echoed message.

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The cry from a new child as you
realize you're born again.

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Wouldn't that be worth reading?
Poems written as your legend.

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This is the Pen Redemption.
This is the pan redemption.

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Oh, I love, I love a great line
at the end that puts a a sealer

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and drops the mic and leaves
you, leaves you thinking, leaves

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you, leaves it ringing in your
head.

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So do I, Andrew, and and that's
why I've, I've kind of geared my

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poems that way.
My titles are always at the end

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of the poem and they and they
always rhyme with the last word

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too.
So I I love it because, and we

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can talk about this more, but
sometimes you want to say an

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extra line.
And perhaps because of I'm a

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poet, I could do it, but I don't
want to write another line.

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And sometimes that one word can
just fill in that the whole

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piece, but also end off on such
a perfect note.

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And yet I love twist endings.
I'm a big film fan too.

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So we talked about Kubrick, but
you know, I, I love A twist

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ending and sometimes that last
word, even though it rhymes and

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it fits perfectly, actually
makes you rethink what you've

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just read.
And so you have to go back and

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kind of read it again.
So thanks for thanks for letting

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me read that.
No, no worries.

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Yeah, the recontextualization,
the little, little bit of

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punctuation at the end there to
to recontextualize it all.

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You're now about to be a veteran
of two poetry collections, but I

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want to jump in The Time Machine
for a second.

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How did you get started with
this art form?

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What's your origin story of of
starting to share your creative

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work widely?
Yeah, I mean, it started way

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back in high school.
I think just being an introvert

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and you know, well, probably
even before then, actually, if

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you think about it, I was, you
know, as a mischievous child,

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maybe being grounded.
And, you know, dad was really

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keen on me reading, but I'd
really just like writing.

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And the only thing I did read
was a dictionary.

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So I would just read the
dictionary.

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I would just make rhymes.
And so I guess it started there.

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And then I started writing short
stories and it, and it kind of

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went through high school.
But then, you know, life hits

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you and you're in school and
university and all these things

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and you kind of forget.
And I just, I just left it I

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and, but it's always the case
when something tragic possibly

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happens to you in your own world
or you know, your world comes

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crashing down from various
circumstances, you revert back

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to what you know and, and what
got you through.

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And I, I just started writing, I
would say probably maybe 7-8

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years ago, I really started
getting into poetry.

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And it was actually just more of
an F you because I was on social

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media and I was seeing all these
kinds of poems that had not seen

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Instagram poetry, you would call
it.

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And I was kind of getting angry
because nobody was reading my

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short stories.
And so I was like, I think I

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could do this.
I can write poetry like this.

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And so I started writing poems
really out of spite, like, OK,

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here you go.
And people started liking it.

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And they're very cheeky.
And, and I was, in fact, at the

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time, I was using props in my
drawer.

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So I would just pull out a
random prop, whether it was a,

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you know, a pair of scissors or
matches or a piece of string.

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And I was, OK, let's challenge
myself.

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Can I write a poem about this?
And I'd write a poem, put the

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little prop on, take a picture
of it and then share it.

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But people actually quite liked
it.

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And, and that's kind of where it
started.

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But just my fondness for words
was reinvigorated through those

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those early poems on social
media.

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So as much as I in some ways
kind of put my nose up on some

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of this poetry, it really did
is, is is provided a space for

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me to to share and, and find new
love of it in a different way.

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And so for someone who didn't
really enjoy poetry, now that's

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pretty much all I read, all I
read and write.

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And it's, yeah, it's it's been
such a journey.

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It's been great.
And you said this started seven

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or eight years ago, which is
interesting because I can't

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recall anything that was
happening in the wider world 7-8

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years ago that might have caused
someone to start making art.

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I don't know.
Yeah, well, and that that really

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that also spiked the passion
too.

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I, it was just after some, some
personal turmoil perhaps that I

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started and then, you know, the
world went upside down for a

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while.
And that was when I, I, I, I

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really found a passion for it, a
purpose for it, because it goes

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beyond then just getting a few
likes on Instagram or, or making

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a cheeky poem that was just
maybe a little bit funny.

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I felt now I had to turn my
poetry into something that had

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more meaning and substance
behind it.

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And in the case of, of me
personally, I'm just, I'm very

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passionate about free speech and
being able to say what you want

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to say, especially as a writer.
And so when things were starting

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to go sideways and, you know,
people were getting cancelled on

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in the Internet and certain
writers were being punished for

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saying things that were true or,
or honest and open.

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And maybe they, maybe they were
embellished or maybe they were

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not true.
It doesn't really matter.

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I, I, I still think there's a
place for, for free speech and

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to be able to say these things.
So that's what, where I really

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poured some of my energy in with
red pill rhymes.

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And, and, and that was my sort
of way in, in an Orwellian, an

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ode to Orwell, if you will, to
have this sort of this piece,

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this legacy piece.
I, I felt it was perfect.

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I, I really wanted to write a
poetry book.

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I wanted something out.
And you know, everyone's at home

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can't go to work or we can't do
anything.

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I thought this was the perfect
time to do it.

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So, and I'm a huge fan of The
Matrix.

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And so that's where Red Pill
Rhymes was born.

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So it was a combination of my
own personal struggles with

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mental health and, and, you
know, just the everyday stuff

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and, and maybe the fact that I
had not found my passion of

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writing it and I'd only recently
found it, plus the world going

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upside down.
And that's that's where it kind

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of it all came.
Good stuff.

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I want to quickly talk about
that term.

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You know, you went with the
title Red pill rhymes, right?

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Which is quite provocative
because, you know, we see that

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the term red pill has kind of
been Co opted by, you know,

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manosphere groups and stuff like
this.

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So I'm just wondering, it sounds
like, you know, did you did you

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face any like pushback or, or
anything from anyone going oh,

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what, what's what's this all
about or, or anything like that?

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I didn't really receive too much
pushback at the time.

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I think Red Pill definitely has
taken on some other wildly crazy

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things in terms of meaning.
But when I wrote the book and

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when I was writing the book, it
was really just the idea of, of

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waking up to not only the truths
in the world, the stuff that's

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been hidden from humanity,
whether it's, you know,

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corruption, government
corruption, or, you know,

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censorship or, or, or, you know,
worse, along with a personal

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awakening to your, your own
passion and purpose.

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That's what the book was about.
And the red pill.

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And yes, of course there's,
there's matrix connotation in

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there.
And I, and I'm, well, I was

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definitely OK with that because
it's one of my favorite movies.

223
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And that's really what the movie
was about.

224
00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:08,480
And now you know, it, it's taken
on a completely different tone.

225
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:14,120
And so the question becomes, you
know, do I just not, you know,

226
00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,200
pretend that book doesn't exist
or, or take it down.

227
00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:21,080
And just like everybody else in
that period of time who's an

228
00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:25,400
artist, many poets were writing
about that specific time.

229
00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:30,440
And so I would say that this
book is for that specific time,

230
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,400
even though it has timeless
elements and ideas in it.

231
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:40,640
That was sort of an embodiment
of what was going on in the

232
00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:42,000
world.
And that's that.

233
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,200
And, and beyond all that is, is
sort of beyond my control.

234
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,440
I haven't had any pushback from
from the name.

235
00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:53,480
And I think it it's meant to go
to the people that are, you

236
00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:55,280
know, meant to have it.
And I'm OK with that.

237
00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:00,160
Yeah, and I, I really like that
notion of, of waking up, you

238
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,720
know what I mean?
Like that is that is almost a

239
00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,280
universal thing that I think we
all we all kind of want in a

240
00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:10,640
way, you know, we want our
perception of the world to line

241
00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,800
up with its actuality or as
close as we can get to it.

242
00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,520
I guess the question becomes
like, what do we wake up to?

243
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,920
You know, when we see that term
Co opted by by manosphere, You

244
00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:24,040
know, I think they're talking
about, Hey, you're waking up to

245
00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:28,160
seeing that the whole world is
against you and, you know, women

246
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,800
are inferior and, and, and, you
know, kind of that incel culture

247
00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,200
kind of thing.
Whereas it could mean waking up

248
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:39,160
to the beauty around you or, you
know, the fact that that, you

249
00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:41,720
know, you're loved or that
there's, there's wonderful

250
00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:43,600
things out there.
I guess it all comes down to

251
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,480
like what you are waking up to I
suppose.

252
00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:49,240
Oh yeah, totally it.
And I think when you if you

253
00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:53,120
dissect the book down to its
chapters and sections, there is

254
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:57,600
a a point where it it's supposed
to emulate the journey that most

255
00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:04,440
people have when they not not so
intricately, but loosely in a

256
00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:08,680
journey path.
It's this idea that you are

257
00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:12,120
going through a struggle and
like something's, you know,

258
00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:16,080
awful that's happening to you
and you're forced to usually do

259
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:20,160
things on your own.
And you come to this realization

260
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:24,320
that, Oh my goodness, I've been
living a life of a lie.

261
00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:29,520
And usually it's a personal one.
And yet after you go through it,

262
00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,760
you realize, Oh my goodness,
I've been conditioned to think

263
00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,960
this way based on the
environment that I live in, or

264
00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:40,360
it's my parents or, Oh my gosh,
the government controls or, you

265
00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,960
know, it could be anything.
And and so the, the, that's

266
00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,840
really how the the flow of the
book is.

267
00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:54,640
And so you see a person who is
completely down and out and then

268
00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,960
starts to wake up to all these
realizations, but ultimately

269
00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:04,480
understands that no one's coming
to save you but your yourself.

270
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:11,320
And so the book ends off on that
idea that you really are master

271
00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:14,520
of your own ship.
And so I think if people want to

272
00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,560
take that sort of out of
context, I mean, it's it's

273
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,440
that's really it.
But I understand why somebody

274
00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:25,760
would, just by looking at the
title, not maybe not dig into it

275
00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:27,520
if they have a certain
perception.

276
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,800
But ultimately, if you think
about it, that's probably the

277
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,480
person which should probably
read the book anyway.

278
00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,640
Yeah, that's kind of where that
where that ties into.

279
00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,040
Wonderful.
And it just shows the enduring

280
00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,840
nature of like, you know, the
Matrix film that was ahead of

281
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,480
its time and that whole thing of
like, you know, Neo's waking up

282
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:50,000
to to, you know, a pretty
horrific world in in his case,

283
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,480
his specific case.
And then, of course, the

284
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,520
philosophical question of, you
know, do you want, do you want a

285
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,000
comfortable lie or do you want
to live fully in truth?

286
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,600
And, you know, we can talk about
those things for all time, I'm

287
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:01,880
sure.
Oh.

288
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,760
Gosh, yeah.
Yeah, but Red Pill Rhymes is now

289
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,280
a couple of years old and you've
you've grown since then and

290
00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:12,560
you're ready to unleash your
second collection, which is

291
00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:16,400
called Hope in the Black Hole.
It's it's out now by the time

292
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,520
this this episode comes out.
That's right.

293
00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:23,240
What What personal experiences
most significantly influenced

294
00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,800
this second collection?
Over the last four years, we've

295
00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,160
had a lot of fear in the world
and that has permeated all of us

296
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:34,680
in some capacity.
And that's led to a lot of

297
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:42,080
anger, vitriol, very divisive
society in, in, in many

298
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,880
countries, I'm sure in
Australia, definitely here.

299
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:51,480
And and so I felt just the where
my own journey was, but also

300
00:17:51,480 --> 00:18:00,360
what what I could be doing as
service to someone that might be

301
00:18:00,360 --> 00:18:04,520
hurting is write a book about
healing.

302
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:10,560
Because actually that's all we
really we're all in need of some

303
00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:17,160
deep healing right now.
And I think it would be pretty

304
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:24,720
easy for me to write another red
pill as type book because of all

305
00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,360
the anger that's going on in the
world and even more corruption

306
00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:33,120
that's being put to light.
But then I just felt personally,

307
00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:39,520
very intuitively, soulfully that
it wasn't doing myself service

308
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:46,080
and wasn't doing God service and
it wasn't really doing my

309
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:50,120
community service.
So this was something that I

310
00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:53,040
just naturally felt compelled to
write.

311
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:58,440
And it wasn't as if I knew Hope
in the Black Hole was the

312
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:02,600
culminating end of what was two
years worth of writing.

313
00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:06,560
I didn't know this.
I just saw where my writing and

314
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,160
felt where my writing was going
and I realized there's a lot of

315
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:15,800
one specific tone that I was
writing about quite clearly.

316
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:20,200
And many of pointed this out to
me that in one of the reasons

317
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:28,920
they follow or list or read my
poems is hope, and that Ioffer a

318
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,080
lot of healing and hope in in my
poetry.

319
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:35,200
That doesn't mean I I don't
wander off and and write about

320
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:39,080
other things the odd time I
certainly do, but they've just

321
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,320
noticed a big shift.
And when my followers, you know,

322
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:46,880
message me and and you know, the
community that that is like

323
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:48,720
really intrigued with my
writing, which I'm I'm so

324
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,920
grateful for.
And then they all tend to sort

325
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:55,920
of notice that shifting, they're
really excited about it and, and

326
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,840
understand why I'm writing like
the way I do.

327
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,800
It's, it's very, I try to be as
wholehearted as possible and

328
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:07,200
genuine.
And it just represents the shift

329
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,520
that I have personally, I just,
I didn't feel it was the right

330
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:18,040
time to write in a manner that
was perhaps contributing to more

331
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:24,120
fear and more anger and.
And so that's I just, I made

332
00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:28,840
sure that this book specifically
had no swearing and didn't talk

333
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:34,400
about any of the things from Red
Pill that would contribute to

334
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,560
that.
So I'm very proud of it.

335
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,520
I'm very proud of it because I
know when somebody holds it,

336
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:44,360
it's a very much more of an
intimate experience now as

337
00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:49,640
opposed to Red Pill.
I did feel it was exciting and

338
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,320
it really does fire someone up
in a different way.

339
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:58,320
This this experience was far
more intimate.

340
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:02,640
I wanted to be more intimate,
especially like I just read The

341
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,640
Alchemist a couple a year ago or
whatever for the first time.

342
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:10,320
And so that was a very pivotal
book for me.

343
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,000
And I'm not a huge reader, but
that one was really great.

344
00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:18,360
And, and so I wanted that feel
even right down to the way the

345
00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:22,520
book is printed.
I wanted to feel that that same

346
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:27,560
sort of alchemist.
Oh, it was just powerful, but

347
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:32,080
soft that I, I think when people
pick up this book and then and,

348
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,320
and they have it in their hands
and then they feel the pages,

349
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,520
it's, it's especially if
they've, they've already read

350
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,920
Red Pill and they have it,
they're going to see quite a

351
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,760
difference.
The, the pages aren't white.

352
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:49,080
The pages are off white, they're
cream colored, they're softer.

353
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:51,760
This book itself is much
smaller.

354
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:57,480
It, the book itself is shorter
in terms of pages, but also in

355
00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,560
terms of word count.
It's like half.

356
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:05,120
And I just wanted somebody to
hold this and say, I can pick

357
00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:07,200
this up.
So while it's still reads like a

358
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:12,920
story in a sense, I always
wanted to make sure that you

359
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,840
could pick up any page and read
it for the poem that it that it

360
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,600
was.
So I was very, very careful in

361
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:22,800
how I chose my poems.
But also, I love stories.

362
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,080
I love, I'm a storyteller.
So I don't think I could just

363
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,360
write a poem, a book, just with
random poems and just throw them

364
00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:31,160
together.
This is a journey.

365
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,720
And there is, I don't want to
say A twist, but there is

366
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:41,080
something that's happening and
I'm just yeah, thank you for

367
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,600
this is the first podcast,
right, that we're talking about

368
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,320
this book.
So I'm just I'm unloading all

369
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,840
this on you that.
That's wonderful.

370
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,320
I can feel, you know, the pride
that you have in this work

371
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,880
coming through.
And I think it's very honourable

372
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,600
of you, Ravi, to say, hey, I
wanted to do something that

373
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,560
would serve, that would serve
humanity in some small way.

374
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,240
You know, we've, we've had red
pill rhyme and we've had, you

375
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,840
know, these these kind of years
of kind of getting a bit fired

376
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:11,440
up.
And this is the the down

377
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,040
regulation this.
Is that's right?

378
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:15,080
This is the This is the deep
breathing that.

379
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,000
That follows breathing, that's
correct.

380
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:23,080
You're not the first guest I've
had that has a love for The

381
00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:25,600
Alchemist.
I, I, I really need to, to read

382
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,360
this.
I understand it's been very

383
00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:31,200
influential in it's kind of
mythic qualities, kind of hero's

384
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,160
journey, riffing on that, like
like so much great literature.

385
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,680
I really specifically wanted to
make this a journey as well,

386
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,600
just random poems.
So this is about my journey, but

387
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:47,520
it's told in a cosmic way.
And so I'm just really excited

388
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:52,080
and, and I hope, I hope people
really enjoy that alchemist feel

389
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,240
of it.
It's a great title too, because

390
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,680
in a way, you know, you think
about a black hole.

391
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,760
It's it's nothing escapes it,
you know, not even light and

392
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,160
everything's kind of collapsing
in it.

393
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:06,960
So to say that you can have hope
do have hope in the middle of

394
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,960
something like that, it almost
seems like a tautology.

395
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,920
But that, that makes it, I
think, even more important I

396
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,040
suppose.
Yeah, it's clearly just, it's

397
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,000
it's a massive metaphor.
Massive metaphor.

398
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,400
Supermassive black hole maybe?
Yeah, that's right.

399
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,560
That's what it feels like when
we're at our darkest moments,

400
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:27,280
for sure.
And I've been there.

401
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:33,480
And so I, you know, I really
wanted to, to create something

402
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:38,040
that would, that people could
resonate with on multiple

403
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:42,160
levels.
And one being that it can feel

404
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:46,080
like a black hole and very dark,
very elusive.

405
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,120
And when you try to, when you do
research of black hole, it gets

406
00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:54,840
super complicated and confusing
and you're back to square 1 and

407
00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:59,120
trying to figure everything out.
So it's, there's a lot of dark

408
00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:03,080
matter, so to speak.
The idea, the contrasting of

409
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:07,400
putting light there with hope, I
thought was just really

410
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,040
interesting.
And it sounds like you're a film

411
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,080
lover too.
But I got to say, like I play

412
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,680
the Interstellar soundtrack
while writing this book.

413
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:22,640
I probably played that, I, I kid
you not, 500 times.

414
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,280
I've probably for two years
straight listen to the entire

415
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,200
soundtrack everyday while
writing this book.

416
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:34,880
So this has such a heavy
influence along with The

417
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,480
Alchemist.
That movie has such a profound

418
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:45,880
Tarantino like influence on this
on this book because I love

419
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,840
Christopher Nolan and I love his
storytelling, but that movie is

420
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:51,600
the best movie of all time in my
opinion.

421
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,240
And when oh, I got to see it on
IMAX again when they re released

422
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,760
it.
I just I love the story in that

423
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:02,120
there's hope there.
And so you will see themes of

424
00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:04,400
that in here as well, which is
really great.

425
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,640
I'd also, I want to put this, I
know I'm probably overshooting

426
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:13,040
this a little bit, but I really
love testing the audience a

427
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,480
little bit or a reader, sorry,
because there's going to be

428
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:21,360
probably some words that not
everybody understands and that's

429
00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:23,240
OK.
And I actually quite like that

430
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,360
because that represents my
process, because I think we were

431
00:26:27,360 --> 00:26:32,920
going to possibly talk about my
process a little bit, but a lot

432
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:37,120
of the process that I have is
trying to understand a concept

433
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,720
more than just using a word for
a rhyme, let's say.

434
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,960
So if I'm going to put a word in
that rhymes that is a scientific

435
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:51,880
one or whatever, something
that's really complicated, I

436
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,080
need to understand what that
topic is.

437
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,400
And so then I'll do a deep dive
into that topic.

438
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,680
So if we're talking about
process, yeah, like that's,

439
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,080
that's just kind of how I do it.
So I will spend time researching

440
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,360
that topic, understanding that
topic.

441
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,400
And yeah, Chad's been great for
that for, for understanding

442
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,760
topics and, and just getting me
straight to the answers and that

443
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,840
way I know it.
But you know, also some deeper

444
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,760
dives in that and watching
videos and I have some Carl

445
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:26,920
Sagan books that I can refer to
and just the exploration of, of,

446
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:32,560
of space, but spirituality, not
in the hijacked sense, but just

447
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,760
the spiritual realm and the, the
metaphysical is, has been quite

448
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,760
it.
It, it is quite extraordinary.

449
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:44,320
And it's, the book doesn't even
cover what, what's out there.

450
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:49,400
But I think from just a one
person's journey from it, I

451
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,200
think it is going to resonate
with a lot of readers.

452
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,240
And there's going to be some
terms there that people maybe

453
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:58,320
don't understand and that's OK.
And they can go look it up

454
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,120
themselves.
I actually like the idea that

455
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:02,720
someone would do that.
There's a way.

456
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,240
I don't get that word.
I'm going to look it up.

457
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,680
And with the access that we
have, the information and the

458
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,240
pace that we can get that
information, I just don't see

459
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,280
any reason why somebody wouldn't
do it.

460
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,840
And so I'm hoping they do,
because I know some books will

461
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,280
put, you know, footnotes or
whatever the bottom and try to

462
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,440
define something And, and that's
fine.

463
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,200
You, absolutely.
But it's also kind of fun to

464
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:29,080
just assume that they either
know everything or they have the

465
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,520
the wherewithal to just look it
up themselves.

466
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,200
So yeah, yeah, it's going to.
That part's fun, too.

467
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,040
To, to spark that curiosity that
someone might end up, you know,

468
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,720
picking up a, a Stephen Hawking
or a Neil deGrasse Tyson or

469
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:47,120
something and, and dive into,
you know, astrophysics or, or

470
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,200
whatever the, the case may be.
Right.

471
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,080
Yeah, yeah.
Ravi, do you have any like

472
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:56,000
recurring, I guess, symbols or
metaphors that appear in your

473
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,760
poetry and that you know hold
special meaning for you?

474
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:01,360
Does that form part of your
language?

475
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,040
Besides thematically, hope is
probably the biggest one.

476
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:10,920
But in terms of specifics, oh
gosh, I suppose that's why I

477
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:15,600
wrote some of this book because
a lot of, you know, space

478
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:20,920
metaphors were were just, you
know, being downloaded at night

479
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,920
in my mind.
And and I'd have to get up in

480
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:27,080
the middle of night and and
write things down South stars

481
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,080
the sun, definitely.
But I do a lot of other poetry,

482
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:35,440
so I can't really specify
because I love, I love plants

483
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,160
and animals.
And, and just again, using

484
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:44,280
combining if, if people were
ever curious as to the process

485
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,280
or if they were stuck in
writer's block, my goodness.

486
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:52,600
Like literally pick any plant on
the planet.

487
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,120
And I guarantee you, you can
turn that into a metaphor about

488
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,720
life, about relationships, about
yourself.

489
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:05,240
And there's probably things that
you can convey using that plant

490
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,920
about, about your own life with
really cool expression.

491
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,600
And, and I can do that.
And that's how I do it with

492
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:17,360
stars or, you know, planets or
whatever it may be, black holes,

493
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:23,040
anything it there's a poem
called No Air and, and, and, and

494
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,480
so really nothing can also be
something.

495
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,920
And so I wouldn't say there's
anything specific that comes

496
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:34,480
back besides the theme of hope.
I do feel that's my calling

497
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,200
right now just based on what's
going on with the world.

498
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:44,920
And so whether that is something
that's based out of let's say

499
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:49,080
plants or some sort of science
or new discovery or whatever, I,

500
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,880
I usually try to connect it back
to some way that there's hope.

501
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,600
And I think poets and and, and
Mystics and all these kind of

502
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,200
people have been contrasting,
you know, the natural world

503
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,560
around us, what we can observe
with our humanity and our

504
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,880
interior experience.
So I think you're right.

505
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,560
And, you know, living in the,
the area of the world that you

506
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,520
do, I'm sure you can step
outside your front door and see

507
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:16,200
all kinds of amazing things that
are, that are going to feed that

508
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:21,120
creativity and, and find new
ways to communicate hope through

509
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,960
imagery, through through
symbolism, through metaphor.

510
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:25,800
No, that's great.
Oh, I lo, yeah.

511
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,400
And I love, you know, the
influences really, I have to

512
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:34,200
give thanks to or props to these
amazing poets of our past, you

513
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:39,640
know, Sufi poetry, Rumi, you
know, I, I was, was really

514
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,040
fascinated by those types of
poets.

515
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,320
And, and I'm just reading about
so much more.

516
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,720
You know, I'm a, I'm a late
bloomer when it comes to poetry.

517
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,240
As I told you, I, I kind of
hated it like 8 years ago.

518
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:54,520
And so I'm trying to catch up
and, you know, people are going

519
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,880
to laugh, but I only found out
about Mary Oliver two years ago.

520
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,080
I only started reading Bukowski
like 4 years ago.

521
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:05,280
I like all of this is new and
even I pick someone up in at the

522
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:09,560
thrift store, Tagore, who I
found out was the one of the

523
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,200
greatest Indian poets of all
time, East Indian poets.

524
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,880
And I'm reading his stuff and
just go, Oh my goodness, like

525
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,240
where have you been all my life?
And and those like you said,

526
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:23,160
those that sort of mysticism,
those types of poets really are

527
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:28,640
exciting to me right now.
And most times I felt their

528
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,760
message was always hope.
They were always sort of

529
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:32,720
grounded in that hope.
So.

530
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:34,640
Good stuff.
It must be such an exciting

531
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,320
journey to, you know, you say
you're playing catch up, but you

532
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,840
get to see these things with new
eyes, you know, with fresh eyes,

533
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:42,360
I should say.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

534
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,120
Fresh air and, you know,
immature eyes.

535
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,240
Yeah.
You should see my book

536
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,160
collection here.
And don't ask me what I've read

537
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,200
because it's not even close to
what my book collection is.

538
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:54,280
But it just keeps piling up
because now when I go shopping

539
00:32:54,600 --> 00:33:00,240
for books, I look up almost
every poet that I see in case

540
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:04,080
I'm missing something.
Because I remember doing, you

541
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,240
know, not interviews, but having
conversations with other

542
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,040
writers.
And they would say a poet and

543
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,120
I'd say, who's that?
And they would give me these

544
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,840
bulgy eyes, like as if I had
just landed here.

545
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,200
And, and I felt so embarrassed
that I didn't know some of these

546
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,440
the now I am not doing that.
So what that means is I'm

547
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,720
accumulating literally every
poetry book ever made.

548
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:31,600
But it is fun to kind of explore
and and see like right now,

549
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,360
who's on my shelf that I'm
reading?

550
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:39,040
Tagore is 1.
EE Cummings is another one.

551
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:40,480
I just got a small book from
him.

552
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,960
And it's just, it's just
amazing.

553
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,920
I can't believe how much I'm
reading, you know, and as an

554
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:54,400
educator who teaches grade 5 and
and see the struggle that boys

555
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,400
have with reading.
And that was me as a kid.

556
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,000
Oh, really?
Oh, even when I was a young man.

557
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:05,480
But if somebody had just said,
listen, try some poetry, it's

558
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,440
not that long and maybe you
might like it.

559
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,960
And I just wish somebody had
maybe said that to me.

560
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,360
So now I specifically teach
quite a bit of poetry in grade

561
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,480
five.
So the boys can at least, well,

562
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,239
everybody, but specifically the
boys.

563
00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:25,159
Look, you can still have fun
with just this much reading.

564
00:34:25,159 --> 00:34:27,840
It's pretty good.
That's great.

565
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,719
Look, the in terms of the books,
the obsession is real.

566
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,320
You know, you got to you got to
catch them all after a while.

567
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,880
And look, I'll, I'll join you in
the fact that I still feel like

568
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:42,400
I'm on a discovery in terms of,
of the, the performance poetry

569
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:46,280
space of yeah, trying to learn
about all these people that are

570
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,639
here name dropped and, and, and
speak to them.

571
00:34:48,639 --> 00:34:51,600
You know, that's, that's partly
what this this kind of project

572
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,639
is about.
And it's, it's a lot of fun.

573
00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:56,600
And that's really cool that
that's now flowed through to to

574
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,920
the classroom.
I think there's still a lot of

575
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:03,680
cliches about poetry being, you
know, stuck in the past, you

576
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,560
know, and, and not really
accessible or exciting, but, you

577
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:11,200
know, short pieces, pieces that
you're writing, performance

578
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,240
pieces out there.
You know, there's some great

579
00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:17,280
Canadian slam poets who are, who
are doing stuff that's that's

580
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,320
emotionally engaging, visually
engaging from a performance

581
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,320
perspective.
I think that's a that's a really

582
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:26,440
important element, especially as
our attention spans go go down

583
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:27,960
the drain, you know?
Right.

584
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,280
Yeah.
And actually, you know, as I was

585
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:34,160
saying, I was, I kind of started
poetry as out of spite, but now

586
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,960
I look at some of these Insta
poets and I'm, I'm actually

587
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,520
quite grateful.
I'm just so grateful, you know,

588
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,680
So I, I mean, I like
everybody's, but it's paved the

589
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:48,680
way.
And, and as some of my local

590
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,920
bookshop owners have told me,
you know, they may not like the

591
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:56,520
Insta poetry too, but they
realize that it, it, it tips

592
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,600
their appetite.
It just, it just the taste buds

593
00:35:59,960 --> 00:36:02,960
and eventually they do get to
the Olivers and, you know, they

594
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,800
do get to the Robert Frost and,
and so they're, you know, I try

595
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,520
not to be so judgmental about
it, you know, whatever that may

596
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,680
be, you know, and I, I would
consider myself an insta poet,

597
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,360
so to speak.
I'm, I mean, that's where I kind

598
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,360
of got a following.
And but yeah, I, I did used to

599
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:25,640
have a lot of angst towards
that, but now it's really

600
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,800
shifted.
I'm just really grateful for the

601
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,520
platform and, and all they've
paved the way for, yeah.

602
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,960
And there's room for everyone,
you know, I mean, I, I

603
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,880
understand that the work of, you
know, Rupee Kaur is, is a little

604
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,240
bit divisive.
And some people have, I think

605
00:36:41,240 --> 00:36:44,680
there's a whole book that's like
a, a satire of, of milk and

606
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:46,440
honey.
And you know, that, that kind of

607
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,480
style of poetry.
But there really is room for

608
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,560
everyone.
And you never know how

609
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,200
something's going to be received
and, and what kind of doors it

610
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:57,160
can open the people's literary
imaginations and creative

611
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,360
journeys.
So that's right, I think.

612
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:01,880
I think what we're saying is,
you know, if you're listening to

613
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,480
this and you're right, please
just just bring what you have,

614
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,680
bring it to the table, you know?
That's right.

615
00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:10,680
I mean, who knew I would be
writing in lower case everything

616
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:16,120
and now I try to write anything
with any capital letters and it

617
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,280
just looks awful to me.
I cannot see it right.

618
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:24,040
And even for a long time I was,
I was toiling with the idea of

619
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:28,560
do I put capitals on my title
and my work now or and now I

620
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,680
can't, I just can't.
It doesn't look right to me.

621
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,480
So thank you, Rupee.
I am all lowercase now along

622
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,800
with everybody else like, you
know, young Pablo and everybody

623
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,760
else.
So it's just like whatever, you

624
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:42,960
know, they influence you in a
certain way.

625
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:48,000
And you may not, you know, I
don't know, absorb all of it or

626
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,000
or want to, but they certainly
had an impact.

627
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:54,480
Yeah, and it'll all come around
again.

628
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,520
There will be a capital letter
revolution, you know, it'll,

629
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,000
it'll, it'll all be capitals.
It'll sound like we're all

630
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,000
yelling at each other for a
little bit.

631
00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:05,560
Oh my God, All the kids are
saying no cap, right?

632
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,520
Yeah.
That's it, That's it.

633
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,440
It'll come around.
You can't suppress it for too

634
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,760
long.
Robbie, I'm really interested in

635
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,400
your experiences.
You speak about writing as a

636
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:22,400
tool to help move or, or or
remove or shift trauma and

637
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,400
stress from the body.
You know, this, this aspect of

638
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,400
like trauma in the body or the
body keeps the score.

639
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,520
Like it's very popular at the
moment in terms of people

640
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,960
talking about like vagus nerve,
people are talking about good

641
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,000
nervous system regulation.
Can you kind of speak to this

642
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,000
and how writing fits into this
for you and what you found?

643
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,600
Yeah, sure.
I, I, I'm going to 1st would

644
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:48,000
preface by saying I am not a
somatic healer or you know, a

645
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,040
doctor or anything like that.
What I can tell you is my own

646
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:56,000
experience and, and what I'm
trying to do with workshops that

647
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:02,240
basically tell people who are
struggling that or show people

648
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:07,560
sorry, that you can actually
heal from past trauma through

649
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,840
the ACT, the very act of
writing.

650
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,040
And it doesn't have to be a
perfect poem.

651
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:17,120
It absolutely could be
journaling, it could be a free

652
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,720
writing.
And and so I think a lot of

653
00:39:19,720 --> 00:39:23,280
people are, are confused by that
because they don't understand

654
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,200
the connection between, well,
how do you remove something

655
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,120
that's maybe it's pain in the
inner body.

656
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:33,400
When we speak somatically, it's
actually, you know, trauma

657
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,200
stored inside your body that you
need to release, need to move.

658
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:42,320
But there's a lot of things that
it can do, and I wouldn't say

659
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:47,880
that writing is the answer to
someone's larger context issues

660
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:49,320
that they may be struggling
with.

661
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:55,600
So I wouldn't say writing is
going to solve those those

662
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,400
issues.
What I will tell you though is

663
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:01,840
if you want to get into a place
where your body is more

664
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:07,440
parasympathetic and relaxed,
which allows you to then

665
00:40:07,720 --> 00:40:12,960
actually feel into it.
Go deeper.

666
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:17,280
And that's not to say that you
should try to avoid your pain.

667
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:23,680
I'm just simply trying to show
people that there are different

668
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,320
strategies with writing that can
help you process this.

669
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:32,000
And so like I said, one is the
parasympathetic nervous system

670
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,520
is just you're treating it like
meditation.

671
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:36,360
You're treating it like
meditation.

672
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:41,280
So that that pen that's writing
is, is, is almost like breathing

673
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:45,160
in some ways, But there's,
there's like lots of other

674
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:50,040
things like if you think about,
let's say you've had chaotic

675
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,920
experiences in your life and
sometimes I can get very

676
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,920
scrambly and confusing in your
mind anxiety.

677
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,080
Well, when you write down
things, you're actually

678
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:05,240
organizing the chaos.
So you're organizing the chaos

679
00:41:05,240 --> 00:41:07,840
into an experience that you can
follow.

680
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:14,760
And often times when you read
through your writing, of course,

681
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:21,120
sometimes it can be very messy
and illegible and incoherent.

682
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:26,200
But other times, if you're doing
it the, you know, in a way

683
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:30,000
that's meditative, you can
actually get some really

684
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:34,320
coherent thoughts down on paper.
And I'm not talking poetically

685
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,120
speaking, just just really
incredible.

686
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,880
When you read them back, you can
just say, whoa, that's really

687
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:42,280
impressive.
Yeah.

688
00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:44,480
Yeah, exactly.
Clues.

689
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:49,480
And then you can talk about the
fact that you're perhaps going

690
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:54,360
back into revisiting trauma as
sort of an exposure, like

691
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:58,560
exposure therapy, just, you
know, slowly going back with it

692
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,880
by writing down what happened,
the experience, how you felt.

693
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:07,680
And so while that's not, you
know, for everyone, it's, it's,

694
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:12,320
it's on paper.
And so it's like a revisiting,

695
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:16,320
but it's on your own terms.
And so there's lots of different

696
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,320
things that you can kind of go
through.

697
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:23,840
Those are just three.
For me personally, it acts like

698
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,280
meditation.
So for me to sit and meditate is

699
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,880
very difficult.
I can do it, and if I've

700
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:34,840
certainly paid for it in a
guided meditation session, I am

701
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,800
going to do it.
But if I'm on my own, it's very

702
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,760
difficult for me.
But I can wake up at 4:30 in the

703
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,520
morning or five in the morning
and open the window, hear the

704
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:49,280
birds chirping, sip on some tea,
and I can write for two hours

705
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,840
about things, anything.
And for those two hours, it

706
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:59,400
feels, it does really feel kind
of time travel because you're

707
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,800
talking about things that that
might have happened to you in

708
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,320
the past.
And you're harnessing that into

709
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,760
a really interesting poem per SE
that doesn't have, that doesn't

710
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:11,880
have to happen for most people.
It doesn't have to turn it.

711
00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:16,240
And So what I'm trying to do is
share in that experience with,

712
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:20,040
with workshops, but then also
take that to the next level and

713
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,960
say, actually, you do have a
poem.

714
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:27,080
And I'm going to show you how
not only are you going to

715
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:31,360
release some of this anxiety and
stress and trauma right onto

716
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:35,600
paper and what may look like
incoherence or just a bunch of

717
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,240
lines.
Well, I'm going to show you how

718
00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:42,360
to turn that into a poem.
And then you're going to be able

719
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:48,880
to say to yourself, wow, I know
how I can turn pain into

720
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:53,440
creation.
And when we do this, when, when

721
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,600
we're able to process our pain
and turn it into creation.

722
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:00,560
I mean, this is the pinnacle of
artistry really.

723
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:06,040
And honestly, it's it's So what
a what a resounding feeling of

724
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,880
joy.
And then you take that poem.

725
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:10,880
Let's say I'm going to take it a
step further.

726
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:16,480
You may not want to share that
diary esque first, right, of

727
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,440
what you wrote down to anyone
except for yourself, which is

728
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,800
very helpful.
But then you turn that into a

729
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:28,360
poem and then you share that
with a friend or family member

730
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:33,000
or maybe even online.
And now you've created

731
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:36,040
community.
You've created community with

732
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:41,520
someone on what you thought was
maybe a very alone feeling.

733
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:45,000
So you went all the way from
your body, wherever it was, that

734
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,120
pain, and you took it and you
made something out of it that

735
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:53,800
was tangible that somebody could
understand and even be moved by.

736
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,840
And that is just such a
beautiful thing.

737
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,400
What a beautiful thing.
And so that's what the workshops

738
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:05,800
going to be about this summer.
I'm, I'm, I have a few workshops

739
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:10,400
lined up and it's, it's, it's
just that I'm just very excited

740
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,440
about it.
And yeah, hopefully that that

741
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:15,560
answers.
Yeah.

742
00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:17,760
Oh, that sounds great.
That sounds like something I'd,

743
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,760
I'd definitely be into your
students.

744
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,720
You know, nowadays, I don't know
how much handwriting students do

745
00:45:24,720 --> 00:45:26,480
nowadays.
I'm sure it's a fraction of what

746
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,880
it used to be.
But do you think that maybe when

747
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,960
we're, we're not handwriting as
much as we used to, we're not

748
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:37,480
doing that slow, you know, that
really slow meditative writing

749
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,720
work, like you said?
Do you think that is causing

750
00:45:39,720 --> 00:45:43,440
issues with regulation that that
everything is just on hyper

751
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,680
speed all the time?
I mean this is not an original

752
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:47,240
thought, but what?
What are your thoughts?

753
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,400
No, I think you're right.
You bet you're like the pen.

754
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:53,600
That instrument is more than
just the pen.

755
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:57,040
And honestly, if you look at
anything that's happening right

756
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:01,800
now, whether it for in terms of
learning and expansion, so much

757
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:03,600
of it actually has to do with
writing.

758
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:09,760
So you're when you're at a, even
if it's some work, a different

759
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,560
type of workshop or you're
trying to do some learning in a

760
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:15,600
class.
I mean, most of it, it is

761
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:19,520
actually saying here, write this
down or you need to write this

762
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:21,560
or K, get your thoughts down on
this.

763
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:26,000
And a lot of people struggle
with this and kids too these

764
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:27,880
days absolutely struggle with
this.

765
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:32,840
And it's it's twofold. 1 is
we're coming out of a the

766
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:38,280
pandemic era, me specifically,
were I teach grade 5.

767
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:43,160
This is basically the last year
of the people that were affected

768
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:49,000
by that up and down craziness of
of and, and how it impacted

769
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,760
education.
And so now you have like a one

770
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:55,880
or two year blip where they're
just typing when they actually

771
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:57,360
should have been printing and
writing.

772
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:02,960
And that then forwards through
and, and their behavior and

773
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:08,080
their routines.
And so I absolutely see this, I

774
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,360
feel, you know, even with my
students that they're going to

775
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,520
get, they get tired when
printing.

776
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:19,560
The endurance level is not even,
you know, 30 minutes of writing,

777
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,320
for instance, would be this is
just a struggle.

778
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:26,400
And it's not their fault.
It's that we just we, we have

779
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:31,560
changed the way we are educating
students.

780
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:33,880
There's a lot more tech based
stuff out there.

781
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:36,840
Some of it's useful, some of it
might be overkill.

782
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:41,240
And you know, there is a big
push to get back into script

783
00:47:41,240 --> 00:47:43,960
writing and and handwriting.
It's important.

784
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:46,400
And hopefully other teachers are
doing the same.

785
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:49,200
I know I am.
But yeah, for sure it's it's a

786
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,480
struggle.
And, and so not only the, the

787
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:56,200
active, sorry, not only the, the
knowledge to do script writing,

788
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,440
but also the ACT it's, it's
both, it's twofold.

789
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:00,960
The motor skills aren't there
for it.

790
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:04,240
And this effects their attention
spans, their ability to

791
00:48:04,240 --> 00:48:06,160
regulate, their ability to calm
down.

792
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:10,160
I do feel just like maybe my
workshops are geared, are geared

793
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:13,480
for adults in trauma, but and,
and, and anxiety.

794
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:18,000
But actually, you know, I tell
my students to journal every

795
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:23,560
night if they can as just a way
to, to get that, get their

796
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:26,520
feelings out, express what they
maybe you didn't have a chance

797
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:28,760
to say.
It's just a wonderful thing.

798
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,480
And then to look back at their
writing is it's just incredible

799
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:34,840
practice and routine.
Yeah, for sure.

800
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:38,840
Yeah, some great points there.
Great points there.

801
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:41,280
Wonderful.
Ravi.

802
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:43,520
I think we're ready for piece
#2.

803
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:48,160
Sure.
Yeah, this one actually, I think

804
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:50,600
I might have even.
Yeah, I did mention the title of

805
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:54,800
this one, but I'll leave it at
the end so this is further into

806
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:59,200
the book.
Thanks for the space to read

807
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:01,880
this for you there, Andrea.
Really appreciate that.

808
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:07,320
Take me there.
For I am just a blinking spirit

809
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:11,640
and eternally damned, existing
in and out of this world, this

810
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:15,480
earth and land.
One I have hardly walked and now

811
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:20,520
supposedly stand beyond repair,
with nothing left to give except

812
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,320
another last ditch effort,
prayer and my long journey in

813
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,760
Wayfair.
Take me there, to that abode of

814
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:31,040
darkness before heaven's steps,
where every dog lies after

815
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:33,000
whimpering its final dutiful
breath.

816
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:37,200
Not a man aching and whispering
the sounds of infinite regret,

817
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:41,560
but where violin strings pull me
under the tide so my jealousy,

818
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,720
ego and anger die in a muted
tear.

819
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:50,040
Like me there so I am no longer
gasping and grasping to life

820
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:54,240
like I'm half drowned in whiskey
and wine that endlessly spilled

821
00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:57,840
from my own undoing.
Bring the Blizzard from which

822
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,520
hell froze over my heart.
Solidify all creatures and

823
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,560
flowers.
Everything is cold and abysmal

824
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:07,680
as I leave nothing to spare.
Take me there.

825
00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:12,000
I want to be floating free from
the gravity of anxiety that has

826
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:16,760
hindered my body and mind so
much that I can't even function.

827
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:21,360
Pull me out of the cavity of my
core assumptions, release the

828
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:24,520
restrictiveness and discomfort
that plagues me like a pain

829
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:29,160
virus caught in a pandemic.
For the unaware, my bones need

830
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:33,080
reprieve from fear and trauma
that seem to be stored.

831
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:37,440
I'm hoarding every ache for a
later day like some dooms there

832
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:41,040
who will never be ready for the
end or prepared.

833
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:45,240
Take me there, where Silver
Linings that trace shadows from

834
00:50:45,240 --> 00:50:49,640
light have also disappeared and
stars go to die alone in their

835
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:56,200
own particle matter tares the
place of absolute nothingness,

836
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:00,880
to which even hope may just be
too out of reach from the

837
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:05,440
ultimate struggle and despair.
Take me there nowhere.

838
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,120
Thank you for taking us there,
Ravi.

839
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:16,120
Thanks, Andrew.
We, we've talked about many

840
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:18,360
cosmic mysteries today.
We'll, we'll talk about another

841
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,520
one, the mystery of creativity
and the creative process.

842
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,440
I'm just wondering if you can
shed any light or any further

843
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:31,680
light on like how you personally
go with actually putting a a

844
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:37,440
piece together and refining
ideas into something cohesive.

845
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:42,560
I love this because I love
talking about it only because

846
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:47,240
I'm sure other people do the
same thing as I do, but I don't

847
00:51:47,240 --> 00:51:51,160
know, I just love taking
something that I see and

848
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:53,760
sometimes it's just a word or
it's just a sight.

849
00:51:53,880 --> 00:52:00,680
So one of my late latest poems
was called Dandelion Dreams and

850
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:04,480
the only reason dandelion came
to my mind was because, well,

851
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:06,680
dandelions are everywhere right
now.

852
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:09,200
It's the season.
And I just thought, well, this

853
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:11,600
would be interesting to
understand dandelions a bit

854
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:15,640
more.
And so, yeah, I just read up on

855
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,640
dandelions.
And so I would just research

856
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:22,160
dandelions, try to understand
what, you know, their, their

857
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:25,520
life cycle is.
And like, to the extent that I

858
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:29,000
wanted to because I've seen bees
on them before, but I wanted to

859
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:32,280
understand why bees choose a
dandelion instead of something

860
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,200
else.
And so I thought, oh, is, you

861
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:37,800
know, do dandelions have sweet
nectar in them?

862
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:39,880
Because it doesn't seem right
because isn't that a bitter

863
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:41,960
plant?
I mean, eat dandelions very

864
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,640
bitter.
So then I had to Google that and

865
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:48,320
understand the dandelion nectar
and it's actually quite sweet

866
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:51,720
with for a bee.
And then I researched more and

867
00:52:51,720 --> 00:52:56,360
more and realized that bees only
use dandelions for, for sort of

868
00:52:56,360 --> 00:53:01,320
a temporary food source until
more plants bloom.

869
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:07,680
And so it's acts of this sort of
intermediatory, like food source

870
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:12,440
for bees, They'll take it.
I love researching and

871
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,280
understanding that.
And I just, I wanted to write

872
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:20,720
about, you know, a bee, a bee
on, on a, on a dandelion.

873
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:24,240
But then how could I make that
so much more interesting?

874
00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:28,840
Well, we could talk about if the
bee, you know, fell in love with

875
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:33,840
the dandelion and of course that
represents maybe 2 lovers that

876
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:38,560
were never meant to be.
I know there's two different

877
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:40,040
subspecies here.
We're talking about different

878
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:42,200
subspecies.
But but if you catch my drift.

879
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:45,560
And so I, it was just so
fascinating to write about

880
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:48,080
something like that and then add
a spiritual component.

881
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:51,600
So I love the most fun I have is
when I mix science and

882
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:56,200
spirituality together because
that's when I was going to my

883
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:58,760
own struggles.
Those are the books in the

884
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:03,160
figures and the talks and the
writings and the teachings that

885
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:04,920
would that would always speak to
me.

886
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:10,120
And so I guess why some people,
you know, believe in the Bible

887
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:12,720
and and other spiritual works as
the definitive.

888
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:15,880
I also understand why somebody
would just pick up a textbook

889
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:19,600
and say that's the definitive.
But for me, it's when you can

890
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:23,920
blend them together and see a
bridging between them two.

891
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:28,720
I absolutely love that.
And so, you know, someone like

892
00:54:28,720 --> 00:54:33,480
Bruce Lipton, you know, Joe
Dispenza, these, these guys are

893
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:36,760
just like the pinnacle of kind
of blending those two together

894
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:40,720
and, and Zach Bush and, and all
these guys.

895
00:54:40,720 --> 00:54:42,520
So I just love when that
happens.

896
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:45,920
And so I've I've, I've
definitely incorporated that

897
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,280
into my writing.
So it's just like a two-part

898
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:51,560
thing.
There's a feeling that I get and

899
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:55,280
it's an emotional one and it's a
deep down 1, and you could call

900
00:54:55,280 --> 00:55:01,280
it a spiritual one, but then I
mix it with, you know, science.

901
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:05,880
Oh, I love that.
And again, those are waters that

902
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:07,600
I really like to swim in as
well.

903
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:11,520
Like how you were saying about,
you know, black holes,

904
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,720
astrophysics and all that.
It sounds to me like your

905
00:55:14,720 --> 00:55:20,200
process is is rooted in this
beautiful kind of curiosity.

906
00:55:20,720 --> 00:55:23,840
You know, you see something, you
want to learn more about it.

907
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:28,480
Why do bees go for dandelions?
That makes no sense at first

908
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:32,720
look, you know, and you learn a
little bit more and it helps you

909
00:55:32,720 --> 00:55:36,920
make new connections, new
connections within your own

910
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:40,680
human experience and life, you
know, for a creative or for a

911
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:43,040
writer.
Do you think curiosity is just

912
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:46,160
one of those must have things in
your tool bag?

913
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:49,240
Oh, for sure.
I think all poets and writers

914
00:55:49,240 --> 00:55:52,800
have a natural curiosity and
instinct to, to learn.

915
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:54,800
I, I think you, you have to have
that.

916
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:59,520
And so I'm always interested in
challenges to further my

917
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:01,840
writing.
And so if it's a topic that I

918
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:06,520
don't understand the thirst to
try to go deeper and further

919
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:09,120
with that, it's just a natural
instinct for me.

920
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:13,000
You know, there's this, we, we
talk about writer's block and

921
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:16,120
often writers will talk about
that and I understand why

922
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:19,600
somebody would believe in that.
But I think if you have a

923
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:24,240
natural inclination to try to
learn things about anything and

924
00:56:24,240 --> 00:56:27,480
there's so much out there, then
there's endless possibilities to

925
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:29,800
write.
You know, I, I could just, when

926
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:32,720
people DM me on Instagram and
say, I'm struggling with

927
00:56:32,720 --> 00:56:35,760
writer's block, what do you,
what would you suggest to say

928
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:37,960
literally stop what you're
doing?

929
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:42,760
Go to any bookstore or any
thrift store, open any book at

930
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:47,760
random and just read something
and about anything and you will

931
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:50,360
be inspired.
In fact, I almost wanted to.

932
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:54,400
I might still do this one day.
I might take a picture of an

933
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:58,800
entire bookshelf where the
spines are out and take all the

934
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:04,720
titles and use the titles in a
poem and show that literally

935
00:57:04,720 --> 00:57:06,960
inspiration can be, it's
anywhere.

936
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:10,680
It's literally anywhere.
And if anybody who's following

937
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:14,960
me or, or you know, starts
following me from the podcast,

938
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:17,320
I've actually started
experimenting with blackout

939
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:19,520
poetry as well.
So it's sort of the reverse

940
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:24,040
thinking where the words are
already there for you, you just

941
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:25,440
have to choose the ones you
want.

942
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:29,000
And so that's an excellent I
found for quote UN quote

943
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:31,520
writer's block.
If you're just kind of stuck,

944
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:34,880
just grab a newspaper or a
magazine.

945
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:37,480
The words are already there.
You just black out the ones you

946
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:39,760
don't want.
So I've been posting more of

947
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:41,920
those lately and I'm having a
good time with it.

948
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:46,600
It's really fun.
And just as a specific way to

949
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:50,360
create, you know, I'm trying to
learn and I know hope in the

950
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:52,960
black hole is is a rhyming
poetry book.

951
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:57,600
But as my writing expands, I can
tell already that eventually

952
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:01,040
we're going to get to more prose
and non writing poetry.

953
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:07,560
Well, I'm so so part and parcel
of that now.

954
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:10,760
I'm so into rhyme schemes that
it's almost difficult for me to

955
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:15,120
not rhyme.
And so blackout poetry has

956
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:19,120
really helped me because that is
next to impossible to make a

957
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:22,720
rhyming poem out of a blackout
poetry and a newspaper.

958
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:27,360
So it forces me to just make a,
a, a small poem that is not

959
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:30,440
rhyming.
And it's really good for me.

960
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:34,320
And that's just a perfect
example of that thirst that that

961
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:40,040
that natural curiosity for, for
learning about the craft.

962
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:43,920
But also like we talked about
space and exploration that way.

963
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:47,280
It was just, it was fun to learn
about some of these concepts.

964
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:50,720
Yeah.
And you got to realize that

965
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:55,160
curation is also creativity.
You know, you don't need to

966
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:58,480
always be, you know, making
something from the ground up.

967
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:02,720
You know, when you, well, I know
that when I like make a playlist

968
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:04,680
or something, I'm not just
chucking things together.

969
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:08,360
I put real thought into that,
you know, and it's the same with

970
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:11,840
blackout poetry.
You are curating the words and

971
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:14,360
the flow of them from something
that's already provided.

972
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:16,720
So I think it's important to not
take that for granted.

973
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:20,280
And you might, you might find
that helpful for, again, just

974
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:24,640
refuelling the engine a little
bit for your own, for your own

975
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:26,680
creative work as you engage with
different things.

976
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:29,720
So those are some like fantastic
tips there, yeah.

977
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:31,400
Thanks.
Yeah.

978
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:34,520
Well, hopefully somebody gets
something out of that for sure.

979
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:40,520
Yeah, Ravi, what's what advice
would you offer to young poets?

980
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:42,840
So maybe you do this with your,
your students, but what advice

981
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:45,760
would you offer to young poets
who are trying to find their

982
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:50,120
voice in a world that is now
flooded with content and not

983
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:53,440
just content from real flesh and
blood creators.

984
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:57,080
But you know, we talk about
insta poetry now being flooded

985
00:59:57,080 --> 01:00:00,880
with machine stuff and, and, and
how much is going to be AI

986
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:04,600
generated in in the future?
I just read this morning that I

987
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:06,920
mean, I don't have a Netflix
subscription anymore, but

988
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:11,040
apparently Netflix wants to roll
out like AI generated mid roll

989
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:13,160
ads for people in the middle of
their viewing.

990
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:15,520
And I just, I roll my eyes at
all of this.

991
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:17,040
I'm just like, where are we
going with this?

992
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:20,440
So do you have any wisdom or
advice about people trying to

993
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:23,600
find their voice in a world
flooded with noise?

994
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:27,640
Yeah, that's a difficult one
because I, I'm, I'm really

995
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:30,040
struggling with that sometimes
too, especially when you're

996
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:37,320
against AI and you can tell
possibly that some people use AI

997
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:40,040
for their work more than others
and they're not being perhaps

998
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:43,560
honest with it.
But if we're just talking about

999
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:47,840
a flood of information and
content, there's, there's two

1000
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:50,440
separate things.
Well, there is a lot of

1001
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:54,000
information and content.
But I think if you go back to

1002
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:57,440
the reason why you're writing in
the 1st place and it really

1003
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:00,600
shouldn't be for someone else,
it really shouldn't be.

1004
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:04,520
And the curating part and the
editing part, maybe.

1005
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:08,640
But when you're actually
writing, that's your voice.

1006
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:12,240
And so I always tell people to
to stay true to your own voice

1007
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:16,280
because you are a unique
individual and we need unique

1008
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:20,040
individuals in this world.
And so if you're just going to

1009
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:23,200
be like everyone else, well,
you're just contributing to the

1010
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:27,000
avalanche that's already
happening of, of information,

1011
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:30,120
right?
And I've been really fortunate

1012
01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:34,440
enough to, yes, look at other
people's work and say, damn,

1013
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:37,240
that's good or no, I don't want
to be like that.

1014
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:42,520
But I, I've always kept true to
who I am and I and what my, what

1015
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:46,120
I stand for, but also my voice.
If you stack my poems against

1016
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:49,600
other people's poems, you know,
and if you know me or you know

1017
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:52,640
something and you stack them,
you would inevitably know that,

1018
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:55,400
that that's, that's an RK Gandhi
poem.

1019
01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:58,680
That's what I want.
That's an RK Gandhi poem for

1020
01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:00,240
sure.
And I love that.

1021
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:04,560
And you and a person who is
trying to, you know, gain, gain

1022
01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:08,680
a following, gain some, some
readership, it's your own unique

1023
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:12,640
voice is going to stand out.
And this life is just about

1024
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:14,840
letting go.
So if we can agree that it's

1025
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:18,400
just about letting go, whether
it was like our, our old

1026
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:23,440
pattern, thoughts or behaviors,
letting go past relationship,

1027
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:26,680
all this stuff, all these layers
that we have, ultimately what

1028
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:32,720
that means is the more you let
go, the more unique you will be.

1029
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:36,480
Like you're not going to be like
everyone else the more you let

1030
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:38,920
go.
So you have to sort of let go of

1031
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:42,960
the idea that, Oh my gosh, you
know, where's my following?

1032
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:45,880
How come no one's adding me or
how come who's reading my if you

1033
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:49,360
could like that, go and just
write from the core.

1034
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:53,200
That is going to stand out.
And you can just tell when you

1035
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:58,160
go on go online and you read
the, the, the really magical

1036
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:01,960
writers on there.
It, it, they're completely

1037
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:05,080
different, completely different
than everyone else always.

1038
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:08,640
And that's not some sort of
design.

1039
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:14,000
Like you can't fake that unless
you're AI, but like you can't

1040
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:18,440
really fake that.
And so that part is I always try

1041
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:23,200
to tell them, you know, be true
to your own voice in terms of

1042
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:26,880
the fact that AI is just writing
everybody's poems or, you know,

1043
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:28,480
filling in the gaps with
everything.

1044
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:31,960
It's so difficult now and I
don't know where it's going.

1045
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:35,360
I used to be really, really
afraid of AI, like maybe last

1046
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:38,480
year.
I'm hopeful though.

1047
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:42,880
I'm actually quite hopeful that
the shortcuts and the the

1048
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:48,360
answers that it'll provide kind
of lays this weird framework for

1049
01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:53,640
people to find themselves.
But there is this sort of realm

1050
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:55,360
of unknown with it.
And that can be scary.

1051
01:03:55,360 --> 01:04:00,840
But I'm sort of letting that one
go as well, you know, while also

1052
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:04,760
keeping half an eye on it too,
just in case I need to write a

1053
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:07,640
sequel to Red Bull Rhymes about
that kind of stuff.

1054
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:11,240
Yeah.
That's a good point.

1055
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:15,440
I think in general, my, my hopes
for the AI thing are that we

1056
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:20,320
move towards a world where, you
know, I, I don't want AI to do

1057
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:24,040
my creative work for me so that
I can wash my dishes.

1058
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:27,240
I want AI to wash my dishes so I
can do more creative work.

1059
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:29,720
And I think that's probably the
heartbeat of many creatives.

1060
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,840
And yet at the moment, at this
very moment, I think it'll

1061
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:34,800
change.
But at this very moment, we are

1062
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:40,280
seeing it more as as plugging
creative holes and and kind of

1063
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:44,720
mass production of content.
That's a that's a dirty word

1064
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:47,640
that we hear all the time.
You know, content and even even

1065
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:50,840
the fact I like how you lead
with saying make your writing

1066
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:54,600
for you and develop your voice,
because you know, it comes back

1067
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:58,240
to that cliche of like be a
first class or first rate

1068
01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:01,120
version of yourself, not a
second rate or second class

1069
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:03,920
version of, of a Mary Oliver or,
or someone else.

1070
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:06,280
You know, and, and do the
writing for you.

1071
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:10,840
You know, the whole thing of
being able to easily, you know,

1072
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:15,560
all the barriers to mass sharing
of, of work are now down, but

1073
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:17,720
that's a very, very new thing.
Do you know what I mean?

1074
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:20,560
So obviously take advantage of
it if you want.

1075
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:25,480
But yeah, I mean, I, I have to
constantly be aware of, of the

1076
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:30,840
trap of, of thinking, you know,
compromising on vision for, for

1077
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:33,080
trying to make something that's
that's, you know, more mass

1078
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:35,080
appealing.
I think everyone faces that once

1079
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:37,880
you're out doing stuff.
Oh, for sure, It's a it's a

1080
01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:41,600
constant conundrum for sure.
You know, definitely wrestled

1081
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:44,960
with that.
But it doesn't matter if, if,

1082
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:50,040
if, if the themes change and and
you're going to change yourself

1083
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:54,800
over the years anyway.
So really your voice, if it's

1084
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:59,920
done, if, if you're being
authentic, it will bleed through

1085
01:05:59,920 --> 01:06:02,360
no matter what theme you're
writing.

1086
01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:09,360
And so even when you compare red
pill and and hope in the black

1087
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:13,080
hole, you're going to see a
thread between them for sure.

1088
01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:15,720
And it's not just lowercase,
it's there.

1089
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:19,120
There's a threat and you can
tell that's my voice.

1090
01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:22,520
And it doesn't matter if the
what I'm talking about differs.

1091
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:26,400
So yeah, it's it's going to be
tough, but we'll see for sure.

1092
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:28,920
I like what you said there.
I mean, we're in this sort of

1093
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:33,360
weird stopgap, aren't we, where
we do want it to do the dishes,

1094
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:37,280
but it can't yet.
And so, well, maybe it'll write

1095
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:41,600
my essay for me or whatever.
And, and this is the issue right

1096
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:45,120
now, but for sure it's going to
be a point where it does your

1097
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:48,080
dishes or whatever you want,
whatever it may be.

1098
01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:51,040
Maybe it's just the fact that
it's, you know, the Internet is

1099
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:54,400
so fast and so that's kind of
the territory that it's hit

1100
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:59,160
first and kind of that slower,
more considered approach might,

1101
01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:00,440
might come later, but I don't
know.

1102
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:02,440
I'm, I'm curious, I'm
interested.

1103
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:07,080
I try not to get too freaked
out, you know, but we'll see.

1104
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:09,080
We'll see.
It's it's an exciting time to be

1105
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:11,000
a person.
That's that's right.

1106
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:13,120
Yeah.
It's a great time to be a human,

1107
01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:14,360
yes?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1108
01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:18,640
Ravi, what's what's next for you
in the next season?

1109
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:21,880
What what do you have coming up
for the remainder of 2025?

1110
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:25,400
You've mentioned obviously the
book is now out there doing it.

1111
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:27,480
That's the thing.
You've mentioned some of these

1112
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:28,560
workshops you're running.
Is.

1113
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:30,680
Is there anything else you want
to cast a light on?

1114
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:33,760
Yeah, aside from the workshops,
which I'm really excited for

1115
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:37,000
and, and just working on more
performance based stuff.

1116
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:41,040
So not only being able to teach,
but perform the words in in a

1117
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:46,400
really incredible, powerful
intimate setting would be what

1118
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:49,840
we're going for.
That should probably happen more

1119
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:54,760
in the fall and, you know,
leading into the, you know, just

1120
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:57,080
past the new year, obviously
we'll be working on another

1121
01:07:57,080 --> 01:08:00,760
book, but community is going to
be the big thing for me.

1122
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:06,680
So I think with my first book, I
kind of bypassed my local

1123
01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:09,560
community and that was just
maybe out of necessity at the

1124
01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:11,280
time.
The pandemic area can't do much,

1125
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:14,280
can't meet anyone.
And so I just kind of bypassed

1126
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:17,399
my local community and the arts
community and all these events

1127
01:08:17,399 --> 01:08:22,279
and, and beautiful, beautiful
spaces for online.

1128
01:08:22,319 --> 01:08:25,040
And I'm thankful because I have
an online community now and

1129
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:27,880
it's, it's wonderful to, to meet
so many people.

1130
01:08:28,279 --> 01:08:32,560
But so I'm kind of diverting
back to, if you want to call it

1131
01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:37,120
the roots, more community based
stuff, community based

1132
01:08:37,120 --> 01:08:42,520
performances and, and workshops
and gatherings, open mics and

1133
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:45,760
hosting open mics and, and all
sorts of those types of things.

1134
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:49,680
And I'm actually quite excited
because I just jumped over those

1135
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:52,080
things.
And like I said, I'm, I'm a new

1136
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:55,720
poet, so to speak.
And so going back into the

1137
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:58,600
things I probably should have
started with, it feels

1138
01:08:58,840 --> 01:09:04,760
incredibly new.
And it's a, it's exciting, a

1139
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:10,160
little bit of a little bit of
unknown there, but I'm just,

1140
01:09:10,200 --> 01:09:13,319
that's what I'm really pumped
for these very intimate spaces,

1141
01:09:13,720 --> 01:09:17,600
growing readership that way and
and connecting with amazing,

1142
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:22,840
amazing people who love poetry,
but also other poets that I just

1143
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:25,840
didn't have a chance to meet in
the in the past few years.

1144
01:09:25,840 --> 01:09:29,240
And, and now I can.
So that's what's going on.

1145
01:09:29,319 --> 01:09:30,800
That's what's happening for me
for sure.

1146
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:34,439
Oh good, so you're making up for
lost time in the in the real

1147
01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:36,120
like grass roots area?
Good.

1148
01:09:36,160 --> 01:09:40,640
Yeah, that's right.
We now return to the overarching

1149
01:09:41,359 --> 01:09:44,840
analogy that we've been using in
Season 2 of I Think Therefore I

1150
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:47,399
Slam.
We're going to get a bit musical

1151
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:48,800
here.
OK?

1152
01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:54,320
If your creative work was an
instrument in an orchestra of

1153
01:09:54,320 --> 01:09:58,040
creativity, what instrument do
you think it would be?

1154
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:06,320
Oh my goodness, If we can
include a drum in there, I'm

1155
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:11,400
going to go with that.
And the only reason is I don't

1156
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:15,280
know why, but I'm seeing a lot
of Whiplash videos on my feet

1157
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:20,560
lately.
Yeah, no, it's not quite.

1158
01:10:21,480 --> 01:10:25,600
It is such an awesome movie.
Yeah, I I would say I'm a drum.

1159
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:29,360
And the reason I say that is
because mainly because of that

1160
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:34,600
movie, but also I just feel it's
the closest one to the heartbeat

1161
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:41,280
in terms of making that.
And we as poets really need to

1162
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:45,680
be striking from the heart.
And it's all, you know, there's

1163
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:48,080
something to be said about
craftsmanship and just pure

1164
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:51,080
writing talent, but the
heartbeat.

1165
01:10:51,480 --> 01:10:54,680
And so I was in the heartbeat of
the orchestra would be, you

1166
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:56,160
know, like the heartbeat of
poetry.

1167
01:10:56,160 --> 01:10:57,920
So I'm going to go with that
one.

1168
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:01,080
I just came up with that.
I don't know.

1169
01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:03,720
That sounds pretty good.
Yeah, yeah.

1170
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:06,000
And look, a drum in an orchestra
is fine.

1171
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:08,760
We are not.
We are not beholden, dear

1172
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:09,600
listener.
You would know that.

1173
01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:13,800
We are not beholden to whatever
is in a traditional orchestra.

1174
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:16,320
This is our own thing.
OK, so.

1175
01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:19,240
And there's nothing like, you
know, going to a live music

1176
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:24,400
event and really feeling the,
you know, the kick drum go

1177
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:26,840
vibrate through your body.
You know, it's a wonderful

1178
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:28,600
thing.
Yeah, there you go.

1179
01:11:29,320 --> 01:11:31,400
Yeah, I love it.
And the and the snares.

1180
01:11:33,400 --> 01:11:38,120
We now, we now are entering the,
the section of the podcast

1181
01:11:38,280 --> 01:11:40,280
shamelessly ripped off Diary of
a CEO.

1182
01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:44,480
We call it's Diary of a POET.
You've been left a question,

1183
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:47,840
Ravi, from my previous guest.
So this question comes from Joe

1184
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:52,080
Macero, who asks, has there been
a moment where you have felt

1185
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:56,600
like things are falling apart in
performance or in life and

1186
01:11:56,600 --> 01:12:00,200
something has turned around that
darkness into transformation?

1187
01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:04,240
What did that look like for you?
It's a it's a big one, big one

1188
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:07,880
to chew on.
Everything's been so I'm, I'm

1189
01:12:07,880 --> 01:12:10,200
just so grateful for everything
that's happened to me.

1190
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:17,400
And that includes not at the
time, but you know, I'm just

1191
01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:18,600
always going to go back to my
low.

1192
01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:24,520
I would say the lowest I have
felt, which in hindsight was the

1193
01:12:24,520 --> 01:12:25,840
best thing that ever happened to
me.

1194
01:12:26,480 --> 01:12:31,680
And that is just probably close
to a decade ago now where I was

1195
01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:39,000
extremely anxious.
I was living in fear.

1196
01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:43,120
I was basically living in a
state of fear and I'd lost so

1197
01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:46,640
much weight.
I didn't even look like myself.

1198
01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:51,520
I was, quite frankly, I think
people should know that I, I was

1199
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:55,600
down to, I'd lost like 3040 lbs.
I think it was down to maybe

1200
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:59,880
like 114 lbs.
It was really, really skinny

1201
01:12:59,880 --> 01:13:02,600
compared to what it was.
And it was just wasn't really

1202
01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:05,880
eating very well and it wasn't
holding anything in.

1203
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:12,680
And it was just really no sleep
and basically culminated in four

1204
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:15,360
days, 3 or 4 days of no sleep
whatsoever.

1205
01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:19,960
Basically, you know, 5-6 hours
total in maybe 4 days.

1206
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:27,560
And me on the floor, I remember
shivering and just trying to

1207
01:13:27,560 --> 01:13:30,720
figure out what what was going
on with me.

1208
01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:36,280
And so that changed my life
because I really did feel I was,

1209
01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:39,760
I hit rock bottom.
And of course, at the time I

1210
01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:43,880
didn't feel that.
But there was something in me

1211
01:13:43,880 --> 01:13:48,320
that just, I don't know what it
was, but it, it, it just pulled

1212
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:52,440
me right back up and started to
change my life from the, you

1213
01:13:52,440 --> 01:13:56,320
know, from everything, the way I
eat, the way I move and

1214
01:13:56,320 --> 01:14:02,040
exercise, the way how I see the
world and, and basically a lot

1215
01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:04,200
of health stuff.
But going back to the roots of

1216
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:07,640
who I was writing, started
writing on a regular basis

1217
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:09,880
again.
And this is what when people say

1218
01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:16,600
writing saved their life 100%.
I still have thick booklets,

1219
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:22,400
journal booklets, two or three
of them that I had written in

1220
01:14:22,480 --> 01:14:27,320
every day for like a year to
kind of track everything and how

1221
01:14:27,320 --> 01:14:29,080
I was doing and express
everything.

1222
01:14:29,080 --> 01:14:32,920
Writing literally saved my life.
It wasn't poetry, but it was

1223
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:34,800
poetic in the way that it did
that.

1224
01:14:35,320 --> 01:14:39,120
And so I always tell people
about that experience, that how

1225
01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:42,400
writing can change you.
There was a whole host of other

1226
01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:45,760
things I had to do, like I said.
And when I say writing saved my

1227
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:51,120
life, it's a metaphor, but also
it put me on the right path.

1228
01:14:51,480 --> 01:14:54,600
And so, yeah, I was doing other
things with my health, but the

1229
01:14:54,600 --> 01:14:57,760
writing was was so key for me.
Yeah.

1230
01:14:57,760 --> 01:14:59,600
That should.
It changed the trajectory of my

1231
01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:00,520
life.
Yeah.

1232
01:15:00,880 --> 01:15:02,640
So that I would say that was the
lowest of lows.

1233
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:08,320
Everything else has been just.
It changes you as a person.

1234
01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:11,960
When you look at things, they're
not quite as the downs aren't as

1235
01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:13,800
down as much as you think they
are.

1236
01:15:14,480 --> 01:15:20,200
And so even if there's minor
hiccups with a book release or

1237
01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:23,320
you know, you know, a
performance mic not working or

1238
01:15:23,320 --> 01:15:27,520
whatever it may be, those things
are just, I don't view those now

1239
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:32,000
as as really anything major.
I would say.

1240
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:35,240
I always refer back to that one.
I'm really, I'm just grateful.

1241
01:15:35,600 --> 01:15:39,400
So now, even for any little tiny
blips that happened in my life

1242
01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:42,440
now I'm just, I understand
that's just the way it works.

1243
01:15:42,440 --> 01:15:44,960
That's just the way this the
ebbs and flows of life really.

1244
01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:48,280
Wow.
Thank you for sharing, Ravi,

1245
01:15:48,280 --> 01:15:51,640
and, and that really solidifies
that, you know, everything

1246
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:54,400
you've talked about here today
comes from your, your personal

1247
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:58,720
experience in terms of, of
finding new, new life, I guess

1248
01:15:58,720 --> 01:16:02,880
through writing.
So that's great, Ravi, if people

1249
01:16:02,880 --> 01:16:06,840
want to find out more about you,
follow you, follow along with

1250
01:16:06,840 --> 01:16:10,160
the, the book's release and how
it's going and, and previews and

1251
01:16:10,160 --> 01:16:12,880
stuff like that.
Where is the best places for

1252
01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:17,040
people to go?
OK, so for sure Instagram is my

1253
01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:20,800
main social media hub there, so
RK Gandhi, please check that

1254
01:16:20,800 --> 01:16:23,280
out.
Add me happy to chat, converse

1255
01:16:23,280 --> 01:16:26,720
about writing tips, whatever you
you may need and just converse

1256
01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:31,640
about poetry is be great.
I started Threads and that's

1257
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:34,880
actually quite surprisingly
really good.

1258
01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:38,040
So you can definitely add me on
Threads as well.

1259
01:16:39,520 --> 01:16:42,560
And yeah, I was surprised by how
good that was just because

1260
01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:44,600
Twitter's become a really bit of
a mess.

1261
01:16:46,760 --> 01:16:50,240
But and also my website, you can
go to ravikgandhi.com and you

1262
01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:54,080
can check out my latest, my
latest book there and all the

1263
01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:55,280
information.
So.

1264
01:16:55,280 --> 01:16:57,760
But yeah Instagram is my main
one and hope to see.

1265
01:16:58,000 --> 01:16:59,960
Good stuff.
And we'll have, you know, links

1266
01:16:59,960 --> 01:17:02,440
to all of that in the episode
description, along with a link

1267
01:17:02,440 --> 01:17:04,640
to get your copy of Hope in the
Black Hole.

1268
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:07,400
Now, I do have to peddle back a
little bit.

1269
01:17:07,440 --> 01:17:09,200
Ravi, sorry, I forgot to ask you
you.

1270
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:13,600
Now I get to leave a question
for my next guest sight unseen.

1271
01:17:14,320 --> 01:17:20,360
What were you wanting to ask?
OK, so I think I'm going to ask

1272
01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:25,320
if you could choose a poet to
embody from the past, who would

1273
01:17:25,320 --> 01:17:27,520
it be and why?
I'm going to go with that 1.

1274
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:29,560
So it's a little bit different
than just asking who your

1275
01:17:29,560 --> 01:17:32,800
favorite poet is because
sometimes those don't match up.

1276
01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:35,920
So we're going to go with who
would you want to embody and

1277
01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:36,560
why?
Yep.

1278
01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:40,160
Oh, I like it because I guess
you can, you can appreciate

1279
01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:42,520
someone's writing to a very high
degree, but you wouldn't

1280
01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:45,640
necessarily want to kind of be
in their skin for a day, let's

1281
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:47,080
say.
Totally.

1282
01:17:47,080 --> 01:17:48,800
Like, you know, we could talk
about Hemingway.

1283
01:17:48,840 --> 01:17:50,480
We also want someone like
Bukowski.

1284
01:17:50,480 --> 01:17:53,560
Like, I love Bukowski's writing,
and maybe because it's just so

1285
01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:56,800
different than my own, but I
don't necessarily know if I

1286
01:17:56,800 --> 01:17:59,640
could live like him.
Yeah, good point.

1287
01:17:59,720 --> 01:18:01,760
All right.
Looking forward to hearing the

1288
01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:05,080
answer to that one.
Robbie, you're going to leave us

1289
01:18:05,080 --> 01:18:09,080
with with one more piece before
we say goodbye for today.

1290
01:18:09,240 --> 01:18:14,000
Sure, Yeah, ice.
Memories of the past had

1291
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:17,480
burrowed in my veins.
Water under a storm drain,

1292
01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:22,440
covered on the coldest day.
That is to say, the echoes of

1293
01:18:22,440 --> 01:18:25,600
hurt felt sharp, like shards
from frozen rain.

1294
01:18:25,920 --> 01:18:29,760
I had to scrape the tears off
just to recall my own face.

1295
01:18:30,160 --> 01:18:33,280
So I tried other ways to numb
the bitter emotions with

1296
01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:37,240
sundered blow intake powder to
escape blizzards while more

1297
01:18:37,240 --> 01:18:39,600
whiteouts raged.
But not today.

1298
01:18:40,200 --> 01:18:44,480
Out of the loss from limbo, I
learned to mold and shape my

1299
01:18:44,480 --> 01:18:48,080
avalanche experiences and
mountain snow terrain because I

1300
01:18:48,080 --> 01:18:51,800
prayed for strength and
protection and awareness to hold

1301
01:18:51,800 --> 01:18:54,480
that Bay.
A flurry of thoughts so light

1302
01:18:54,480 --> 01:18:57,520
could melt the sorrow away until
the sun came.

1303
01:18:58,040 --> 01:19:02,320
The thaw out layered glaciers
transforming frigid landscape.

1304
01:19:02,440 --> 01:19:06,640
Floods wash my abrasions
cleaning old torn up scrapes.

1305
01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:11,760
The warmth state rising me above
Arctic annex For what I'd known

1306
01:19:11,760 --> 01:19:15,280
as grave was not actually a
deathbed, but story from

1307
01:19:15,280 --> 01:19:20,000
hallowed cave where it was
explained the instant I decoded

1308
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:22,040
what my omens were trying to
say.

1309
01:19:22,520 --> 01:19:27,880
This squaw was to renew love and
a lesson for me on faith, The

1310
01:19:27,880 --> 01:19:32,880
Tempest of fate.
Wonderful, wonderful.

1311
01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:37,320
Well, I am so looking forward to
looking through this new

1312
01:19:37,320 --> 01:19:40,480
collection.
RK Gandhi, the new poetry

1313
01:19:40,480 --> 01:19:43,920
collection is Hope in the Black
Hole, available now.

1314
01:19:43,920 --> 01:19:46,720
Get your copy through the link
in the episode description.

1315
01:19:47,360 --> 01:19:51,480
Ravi, RK Gandhi, there it is.
Thank you so much mate.

1316
01:19:51,480 --> 01:19:54,160
It's been a pleasure speaking
with you and thank you for

1317
01:19:54,160 --> 01:19:56,680
thinking with us and slamming
with us today.

1318
01:19:57,200 --> 01:19:58,360
Appreciate you.
Thank you.