Patreon Preview: Alyssa Pacheco - On Taking Ownership of Your Art

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Hey friends, and welcome to this
preview of our latest Patreon

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exclusive episode.
To continue the conversation and

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listen to the full episode, head
on over to the I Think Therefore

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00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:13,600
I Slam Patreon and sign up to be
part of the Slam Fam.

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The link is in the show notes
Slam.

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Poetry doesn't.
Care if it's perfect, it's.

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Time to slam now.
It's the biggest poem I've got

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inside of her.
She was a thief.

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You love me to love a haunted
house, yelling blood black

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nothingness began to.
Spin point of view on.

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To this day, I hate pork.
Chops I am the master of my I am

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the captain myself.
We write to taste, life to us.

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Welcome to I think Therefore I
Slam, the podcast bringing you

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the best spoken word and slam
poetry artist from Australia and

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beyond.
My name is Andrew Rogerson and

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my guest today is a Central
Illinois based creative who's

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lived in Alaska, Colorado and
Ohio.

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She's the author of Dear
Desperation and Love in Liquid

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Form.
She enjoys hiking, camping, and

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a solid road trip playlist,
often drawing inspiration for

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her work from travel and music
or a good podcast or book.

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I can certainly get behind that.
Everyone should explore

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expressive writing and
journaling.

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Everyone.
And her main goals this year are

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to publish her third book,
expand her publishing company

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endeavours, submit work to
journals, and continue efforts

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in creating community around
poetry and storytelling.

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What a fantastic vision.
Alyssa Pacheco, welcome onto the

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show.
Hello.

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Hello, thank you for having me.
I'm happy to be here and have an

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opportunity to chat with you
about, you know, all things

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poetry and being a creative.
It's exciting times.

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Now.
I do want to say that we're

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currently in tornado season.
In your neck of the woods, is

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everything all right?
You're not at risk of getting

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blown away or anything over
there.

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You know, it's good.
It's a pretty, I have the

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windows open, so if any point in
time I need to close those

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because you hear rainfall in the
back.

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It's settled down a little bit
now.

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There's a little bit of, I guess
that's maybe the Midwestern girl

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in me.
It's still a decent storm

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outside, but it's chilling down
so.

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What is with the open window
thing like?

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How does that help?
It's just cooling it off in

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here.
I'm just, I just think, you

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know, there's actually, there's
a piece into your desperation

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that talks about kind of
relishing and enjoying the heat

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from a Midwest summer.
So I feel like I'm totally that

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girl, like you're going to catch
me and it's 85° in my house.

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And then I'll like think about
turning the air on so a good

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sweat never hurt anyone.
And so now in the evening, it's

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cooling off.
So kind of getting a lot of that

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fresh air in.
I'm sure it's not helping my

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allergies to any extent, as you
can maybe hear a little bit of

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my congestion.
But that's the price you pay for

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the scenery, the landscape.
Good stuff.

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Well, hopefully no one ends up
in ounces, you know, during

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during this podcast recording.
Oh gosh.

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Alyssa, let's jump into some
poetry now.

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We would love to hear your first
piece that you've brought for us

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today.
Yeah, so I'm actually going to

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just, I think in a good way,
right?

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Get this one out of the way.
I feel like it's one of my my

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really good pieces.
It's actually one that you had

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mentioned that was the first
piece that you would have heard

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of mine.
So gifts from my father.

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This is the first piece that I
ever performed at an open mic.

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And it was actually on my
birthday years and years ago.

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And it was, I think, a testament
to my desire to put myself out

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there and be vulnerable and be
honest and showcasing what that

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journey looked like.
Yes, from my father.

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The striped Baja was a hand me
down from his adolescent era.

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A drug rug, he called it.
And we laughed as the messages

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ran clearer.
And see, he started on his

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downward spiral at an age as
ripe as mine, losing bits of

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himself as he slept in age
through time.

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And sometimes I'd see him in the
mirror amidst my own shell

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shocking life, resenting him for
guidance he couldn't offer if he

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tried.
And the thickness of the fabric

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fell odd in my saffron hand the
moment that I realized he was a

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boy before a man, and it felt
itchy on my skin when I tried it

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on to lend olive branches of
acceptance to these extensions

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of him.
And does he know yet that I

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needed one thing man cannot buy
to take up some of his space, to

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preoccupy his time?
And see my longing for it left

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me grasping for a line.
Salvation, no stability.

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And shake that tree of mine
clinging to its vines, knocked

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down low hanging fruit to bring
me to my knees, to put the world

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back into view.
See, the first time I was

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presented with It's not you,
it's me.

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When he left me sitting on the
porch at the time, he said he'd

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be there to pick me up, to spend
some time with me, to take a

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segment from his day, to listen
to me speak.

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But there I sat, My face grew
flat.

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I let expectations flee and see
my desperations rooted in the

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times his absence left me weak.
See, I'm not sure just what I'd

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say at his funeral, you see, and
not even sure if, as his

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daughter, I'd be asked to speak
and see.

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I'd suppose I'd say things like
he was kind in his old age, or

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it was nice to hear him tell a
tale, even though you'd heard

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him tell it a different way.
And I suppose I'd say things

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like that was very much like my
father, so to say, giving bits

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of himself.
And that I suspect why he turned

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out like this and chose to lead
his life this way.

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And see, I think it boils down
to his own life giver's force

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that his dad left him abandoned.
It was the calm before the storm

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and I'd recount all his ideas.
I'm sure one would have stuck,

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see a big payout, his claim to
fame, another way to make a buck

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and see, I'd explain how he'd
hustled his whole life.

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But I'm unsure of his objective,
his rationales and explanations

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of both.
He was protective and see, he

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refused to let those people in
who just may give a fuck.

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The potential of our
relationships positioned in that

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rut.
And see, looking back, the real

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gift was his storytelling tales,
the plot relaying his hands

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swaying a slightly different
rhythm from the same old beating

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drum.
Long winded, he'd go on and on

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with easel, would become lost in
the sound of the words, or the

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sizzling humming of his halfway
heart spewing from his air

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filled lungs.
See, his body's there in front

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of me.
But his mind had long been gone,

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stuck in that place where half
of them has existed all along.

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And see, you can hear the
passion in the voice in his

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voice, and wonder what it could
become.

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You can hear regret deep in the
tones of the songs he's never

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sung.
Resentment for our life not LED

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and indifferent to the ones the
only tethered to his existence

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as aging overcomes.
And would he have approached

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fatherhood differently if given
a single son?

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Perhaps I should not wonder as
the damage has been done.

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And see, I've worn that Baja
jacket a few times.

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Of course I missed my milestone
Blues.

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Or when I felt I needed it most.
Hoping to feel connection to

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him.
Yeah, somehow something more in

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tune.
Grasping to know how and see.

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Hoping it would give me a
different lens than green.

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Envy for all those girls who had
a dad.

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But me.
Yeah, A different hue, a higher

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view.
The looking glass of his life

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anew.
And his perspective stained A

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sullen blue.
And see the insight that I've

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longed for.
To see what makes him tick, to

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understand the reasons he feels
scorned and why his guards

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impermeably thick and see the
desire to uncover, to RIP up his

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floorboards.
See who was this man, my father,

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before I was born, and to
understanding why my presence

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wasn't his sole force or reason.
To live up to expectations of

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things a father has in store.
To show his daughter's love and

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kindness and that the world has
so much more to offer well loved

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little girls before they enter
dating wars.

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But now I realize it's something
deeper, and he hides inside

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himself.
He knows and stares into the

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fires of his internal hell.
And knowing now that my role is

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more than helping him learn to
deal with his father's absence

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as I reconcile with his peace.
Wow, Alyssa, that's a stunning

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piece.
And it was the first one of your

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pieces that I heard.
And I'm I'm so sorry to hear of

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your father's passing.
I'm sure that that changes, you

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know, your relationship to to
some of these words.

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Yeah.
If we could just stay on on this

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piece Gifts of my father for a
second.

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When you look back to when you
first wrote that piece, was it

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something you were trying to do
to find, I guess catharsis in

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your own experience and your and
your own hurt if you like, or

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were you trying to give voice to
others that that carried that

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same experience?
Yeah, so it's, it's a both end

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and, and I think like so many
things, right.

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I, I first let me say I
appreciate you asking this

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question because I feel like as
a, as a poet and as a writer,

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it's always fun to have Easter
eggs and like the people.

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Like if the you know, you know,
those inside, I don't want to

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say jokes, but the understanding
of I actually have something

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down the line where I'm thinking
about a way to like let you

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inside my brain to some of these
things in different editions

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where a between the lines and
behind the prose, sort of like

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thought process.
So to answer your question, it

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was both right.
So I remember exactly where I

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was, what I was doing when I
wrote this piece.

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And I remember exactly the
conversation that I ended with

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my father as when I sat down at
my desk to write it.

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And so it was about 3 months,
four months into at that time

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was a nine month separation for
my now ex-husband.

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And so I had moved into a rental
property while still

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maintaining, you know, a lot of
the, let's call it admin work of

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00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:04,560
my home that we purchased
together as as a married couple.

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00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:08,040
And so it was a a heavyweight of
just going back and forth and

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part of that process, right to
kind of go back layers before is

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I, when I moved all my my stuff
to my rental house.

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I had have been journaling since
I was gosh, 1214.

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You know, I'm one of four
daughters on my moms side.

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She was a single mother most of
my life.

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And so especially when you talk
about menstruation seasons in

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life and everyone's on the same
hormone cycle and sort of chaos

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loop, if you will, and
everyone's figuring those things

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out.
It was, hey, y'all, you need a

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journal, figure this out.
Bring one thing to the family

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meeting on Sunday and it was a
family meeting.

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There wasn't a one-on-one
conversation like you and I are

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having to address my dirty
laundry with my mother.

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It was a collective opinion.
Wow.

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00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,520
OK, Yeah.
And I don't think it was like

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set out to be that way
intentionally.

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It was, my sisters and I are all
about 18 months apart from one

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another.
So it was just like 4 piece in a

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pod and there's really not a lot
of room, but we make it work

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00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,440
sort of mentality.
And, and I think part of that

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was just efficiency.
I mean, my mom worked three

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00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:03,760
jobs.
It was like, hey, I care.

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But like we got to really, you
guys got to care too.

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So that being sort of thought
forward and and proactive in

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that way.
And so the reason I tell you

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00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:14,960
that is twofold.
The first is I'm one of four.

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00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,440
So when we're we're talking
about why is this piece written,

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It was for me, of course, but it
was also giving voice to my, the

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struggles that I know my sisters
and I have all felt equally.

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00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,560
And so it was a catalyst to, I
would say healing, but it was

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00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:31,720
unintentional at that time.
It was totally a fuck you.

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00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,320
I mean, are you kidding me?
I remember the conversation, you

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00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,680
know, and you know, rest in
peace, you know, but the

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00:11:36,680 --> 00:11:39,920
conversation I'd had with him at
that time was fuck you.

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00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,920
Like Dang, like I've kind of
been thinking about this and if

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00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,840
you would have just kind of like
done your big one and really,

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00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,560
you know, looked out for
nurturing this sort of

225
00:11:49,560 --> 00:11:53,800
relationship and being a guide
and a steward of what true

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00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:56,440
things that are.
Yes, me things, right, my wounds

227
00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,840
to work on childhood wounds like
approval, seeking validation,

228
00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,480
all of that jazz that we'll get
into when we talk about my third

229
00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,760
book, right.
So all of that to say it was a

230
00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,440
catalyst to expressing where and
me unpacking where a lot of this

231
00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:11,360
anger came from.
Knowing that anger is a

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00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,400
secondary emotion has always
been a motivating factor for me.

233
00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,840
I've always been an angry person
and I and I, you know, maybe not

234
00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,000
outwardly facing.
I think anger for me is more of

235
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a I'm critical to myself.
I'm critical to the way in

236
00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:25,440
which, hey, there's a problem.
I need to figure out how to

237
00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:29,480
solve this and anger at the
ether for sort of the injustice,

238
00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,560
if you will.
And so that anger and that point

239
00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:35,680
was this injustice I was feeling
to my dad, who we had this

240
00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:38,000
different layers of
relationships with each other

241
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,160
throughout the years.
But after that was out, I mean,

242
00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,080
this was a catalyst for all of
us to sort of not only be aware

243
00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:45,880
that the elephant has been in
the room with us, but finally

244
00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,120
own it take, you know, rather
than waiting ground for it to

245
00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,360
Stampede and roll over us, grab
by the leash and and let's at

246
00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:53,360
least figure out where we're
going.

247
00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:57,080
And we are then in charge of how
this is is going to to go out.

248
00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:58,960
It's a great analogy.
Thank you.

249
00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,040
And it might just be that I have
control issues.

250
00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:04,640
I like to have a sense of
control over like this is

251
00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:05,760
bothering me.
What can we do?

252
00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:07,560
And part of that is getting it
out there and how you really

253
00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:09,120
feel.
And I never shy away from

254
00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,200
speaking 110% my mind.
It's a good and a bad thing,

255
00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,200
right?
Or can be, if you will.

256
00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,720
In this case, it it's I think 1
is a means to an end.

257
00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,240
You know, I think it started
off, let's say poorly.

258
00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,120
It wasn't received well.
It led to a lot of meaningful

259
00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,160
and important conversations
between my sister and my father

260
00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,000
and I.
And I'm grateful for it because,

261
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,560
you know, before he he passed,
we were well on our way to

262
00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:33,520
healing, as you'll see in
another piece that I'll be

263
00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:35,480
reading here shortly.
But I think that's the hardest

264
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,520
thing is because of this sort of
relationship, I didn't my, my

265
00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,720
father wrote poetry.
I didn't realize that until

266
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,520
sharing and showcasing in, you
know, Africa.

267
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:43,960
He passed.
I thought I always got that from

268
00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:45,200
my mom.
I saw my mom.

269
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:46,800
So I was nosy as hell when I was
younger.

270
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,480
I would, you know, go through my
mom's drawers and see her

271
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,200
journals and stuff and go, Oh my
gosh.

272
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,280
So my mom's introspective.
I get the journaling, the

273
00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,040
observation oriented part of my
brain and stuff.

274
00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,320
Probably from her and and
tendencies.

275
00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:01,680
And then I was seeing oh wait a
second.

276
00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:04,280
My dad had a typewriter 4 years
before I was born.

277
00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:05,960
This poem was written in Typo.
He's hardcore.

278
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,040
Well, it was interesting.
You know, my dad and I have

279
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:13,280
always had a very complex
relationship where as we, we, as

280
00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,040
I aged, right?
So after high school it was, you

281
00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,240
know, during college we had, we
were both operating in similar

282
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,280
modalities, if you will, where
it's not been lost in me, I've

283
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,120
always been told I'm mature for
my age.

284
00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,240
And so I feel like I'm finally
growing out of that and just

285
00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,840
growing into being myself.
It like I've always been myself,

286
00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,480
but sort of the outside
perspective of like shining

287
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:33,000
light on it has sort of
dissipated.

288
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:34,960
And I'm like grateful for it
'cause it seems like an odd

289
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,000
thing to sort of focus on in my
personal opinion.

290
00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,720
But the reason I bring that up
is 'cause sometimes the, the

291
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,440
perspective is when I tell you
this, we were operating in the

292
00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:44,720
same space.
He was doing entrepreneurial

293
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,640
endeavors, so was I.
So we started bonding over

294
00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:51,600
different forms of I went from
maybe a, you know, that father

295
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,400
daughter relationship where it
was every other weekend, right?

296
00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,280
Fun dad sort of mentality, if
you will.

297
00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:01,040
And then going to when I was in,
you know, young adolescents and

298
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,280
then college kind of being more
on the equal playing field as

299
00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:08,200
far as everyone probably has
growing pains as you age into

300
00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:10,880
being an adult with your
parents, right?

301
00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:15,160
But it didn't ever quite feel it
was on its way, I think to what

302
00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,920
I've always been yearning and
longing for, which is that

303
00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,400
father, daughter, tried and true
relationship and, you know,

304
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,040
having children now a son of my
own, right?

305
00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,640
So that we were well on our way
there.

306
00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:27,920
And so I think that's the
hardest part.

307
00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,440
When you said, Oh, I'm sure that
these these pieces hold a

308
00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,480
different weight for you, It's
actually interesting, right?

309
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,720
So in an unintended way, I was
the only one who spoke at my

310
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,640
dad's funeral.
I was going to ask you whether

311
00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,160
you did get the opportunity.
It was odd, it wasn't planned,

312
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,600
it was just kind of like I mean
in gift of gab.

313
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,680
I don't know what it is right
when I just don't.

314
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,880
Maybe I didn't appreciate the
silence, if that's fair to say.

315
00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,520
And I know every and I think
everyone was my other siblings

316
00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:57,160
are struggling to just I think,
process and as I was, but it

317
00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:00,680
just didn't feel right for there
to be nothing said in a way that

318
00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:05,000
my grandma was just off in an
awful way.

319
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,160
And what I did was I read a poem
that he wrote actually that he

320
00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:09,360
had written.
He'd written a poem to my

321
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:14,560
sisters and I, And so I was open
to discussing some of the also

322
00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:16,400
the elephants in the room with
our family.

323
00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,080
I mean, we're I always kind of
joke, right, that I'm a

324
00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:23,480
recovering Catholic.
And so I say that to give a

325
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,960
little bit of insight to a large
family, Catholicism comes with a

326
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,480
lot of looming shame, a lot of
obligatory ways in which we

327
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,800
should or should not navigate
our lives.

328
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,640
And I think a lot of that, if
you even derail in the slightest

329
00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:41,320
without a sense of quote, UN
quote, rational or outward

330
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,680
advocacy for yourself, it's
you're already itching to be

331
00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:49,320
shunned, right?
You have that factor of it as

332
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:50,840
well.
So I'm like, hey, we might not

333
00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:52,920
all have agreed with how my dad
lived his life, but what I'm not

334
00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,200
going to do is sit here.
Like, it almost was kind of like

335
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,560
pissed me off a little bit, the
silence at his funeral.

336
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:02,240
So yeah, I, I did speak.
I remember all about, like, I

337
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,000
remember reading his poem and
then I'm sure I said some other

338
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:09,319
things as well, but it was very
private, very Catholic.

339
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,560
Wow, that was so fascinating
just to hear how there were so

340
00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,440
many different dynamics and
layers to the story behind that

341
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:16,880
poem.
I mean, that's, that's the stuff

342
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,520
I love to hear about, you know,
that's the stuff I want to read

343
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,960
about in the in the notes
section of of someones

344
00:17:22,599 --> 00:17:23,640
collection or something like
that.

345
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:28,280
I totally agree with you that
family expectations are tricky

346
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,120
to to navigate at the best of
times.

347
00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,520
I want to return to what you
said about this piece, starting

348
00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,760
in anger.
And I think you mentioned that

349
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,240
you saw anger as like a
secondary emotion.

350
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:42,680
I'm really interested in like
the science of emotions for, for

351
00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,240
lack of a better word, in terms
of, I've always heard anger

352
00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:49,120
being outlined as important
because it lets you and it lets

353
00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:51,440
other people know when a
boundary has been crossed.

354
00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:56,040
How do you kind of see emotions
within this, this kaleidoscope

355
00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,800
of, of things to learn from and
things to listen to?

356
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,040
Excellent question.
And 1st, if it, if it matters at

357
00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,840
all, I'll just say that the
primary emotion, right that I

358
00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,920
was that anger was the messenger
to was disappointment.

359
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,760
And that's been a, a common
thing, if you will, for me.

360
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:13,000
And so that's a check and
balance for me.

361
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:15,440
It was like, well, why are you
putting check the bounds of your

362
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,440
expectations and where those are
really rooted?

363
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,480
And you also asked me how I
think about emotions as a

364
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,840
modality in this.
So I personally, and it's funny

365
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,120
that you ask that.
So I've always operated with the

366
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:29,520
mentality, right?
Emotion means like feeling in

367
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:34,400
motion, like to emote, right.
So I personally 110% lean into

368
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,720
that.
I am the I'll say it.

369
00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:41,000
I'm a I'm a crybaby.
I am so sensitive, but I'm also

370
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:46,080
the most hard up bullheaded
poker face that you will also

371
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:47,200
meet.
And so there's that.

372
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,880
You can't be impassioned and
also not be really, really sappy

373
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,880
sometimes, right?
It's 2 ends of that emotional

374
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:54,920
spectrum.
And so I bleed in and lean into

375
00:18:54,920 --> 00:19:00,520
both of them.
And for me, I think emotions to

376
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,760
your point, a boundary has been
crossed, right?

377
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:07,800
Usually with anger or sadness,
it's our responsibility to

378
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,520
respond to those things.
And I think awareness sometimes

379
00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,440
has, it's a little bit slower to
catch up than when we emote.

380
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,880
And so it might take 3 or 4 or
15 years feeling that

381
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:23,480
disappointment as a primary
emotion that is continually

382
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,760
showing up, not every day,
right, but situationally over

383
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,080
that lifespan and that cycle
showing up where it's like, oh,

384
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,880
wait a second.
This is what it's telling me

385
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:36,720
that I need to stop putting
weight and expectations without

386
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:41,720
A conveying them, B checking in
to see if it's even feasible.

387
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,800
That's more, I would say, in
chosen relationships, right?

388
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,360
And then my I statements, For
me, a lot of that has come in as

389
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,640
I feel this way, not just 'cause
you asked how I particularly

390
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,560
resonate with emotions is you
did not make me feel that way.

391
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,400
I feel that way because
something that you have done to

392
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:02,040
me and so that is done wonders
for me.

393
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,040
I'm sure I'm human.
I mean, catch me in an argument,

394
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:06,240
I might slip up a couple times,
right?

395
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,880
But I'm intentional about at
least trying to be mindful about

396
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:09,840
that.
Yeah, wow.

397
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,040
And what I'm hearing is that
you've got kind of this legacy

398
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:17,920
of poetry in your family.
And so that legacy kind of drips

399
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,120
down.
It meets your, your unique, you

400
00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:24,120
know, emotional makeup and, and
how you process the world.

401
00:20:24,360 --> 00:20:27,680
And it's resulted in these
highly emotive, very moving

402
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,280
pieces like the one that we've
just heard.

403
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:35,920
Alyssa, I, I'd love to take a, a
step back and look at how did

404
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,960
you start actually creating and
sharing your work.

405
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,280
You've mentioned years of of
practice in in journaling and

406
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:47,400
things like that, but what made
you cross the threshold into

407
00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:51,240
into bundling that all up into a
collection?

408
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:56,160
Yeah, like, like any answer I
give you, it's three-part.

409
00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:00,560
So the first is I used to have a
Wellness blog and podcast called

410
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:04,000
The Wealthy Way.
Like WELLTHY, Like, you know, I

411
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:05,080
thought that was cute and
kitschy.

412
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,120
And part of that, what I
realized was that was just me

413
00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:12,320
finding my voice.
That was like me having the

414
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,760
intuitive desire of I wanna
connect with people.

415
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,720
I wanna share the feeling that
it should be positive and

416
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,480
centered around connection and
community, right?

417
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:26,280
And so all of these things, in
hindsight, 2020, but that's what

418
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,200
I was feeling called to do and
what made sense to me at that

419
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,640
time.
I'm a Tumblr girl.

420
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:32,600
Does that resonate, that phrase
Tumblr?

421
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:34,160
Sure.
Yeah, yeah, I know what you're

422
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:35,880
talking about.
So there's some folks listening

423
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,160
that if you're a Tumblr girl,
thigh gap, all that look into

424
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,680
it, there's a whole culture of
it where that was really the

425
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,040
start.
Like that was pretty Pinterest

426
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:44,960
around the same time.
Like it's a lot of those things

427
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,200
like Instagram, right?
That would have been Instagram

428
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,280
and mood boarding before that
was, you know, really those two

429
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,880
things.
Part of that was very much into

430
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,880
topography in the digital realm
and poetry, short stories, all

431
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,880
of that stuff and more of a,
let's call it a fan fiction sort

432
00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:02,480
of modality if you would on a
Reddit or the similar way that

433
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,720
people write fan fiction.
That sort of subculture is why

434
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,200
I'm explaining it.
So I've always in the

435
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,640
background.
I've had blogs, private blogs

436
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:11,840
that were password protected,
maybe share with people that you

437
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,600
connect with on Tumblr or on
Myspace.

438
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,280
I think that was a huge thing
for me too, connecting on

439
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,600
Myspace with, with people in
like, but a lot of it was, let's

440
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,160
say behind the curtain.
And I also didn't want anybody

441
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,280
to know I was Oz.
There was no Oz to be or not be.

442
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,160
It was just really me trying to
figure that out and connect.

443
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:33,080
But it always felt like like
cliche or played out or in a way

444
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:34,920
that I didn't know.
I knew what I was looking for,

445
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,200
but I didn't know quite how to
grab a hold of it or what I even

446
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,760
what I would even grab if it
passed me by what that looked

447
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,560
like.
All of that to say, I was having

448
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:46,800
this Wellness blog.
So that was me going and going,

449
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,800
OK, like Tumblr, my own little
personal blogs for poetry, my

450
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,200
own personal blogs for
storytelling and photography,

451
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,600
doing this Wellness stuff.
And then I just started, it was

452
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,360
COVID.
I mean, I'm sure so many people

453
00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:01,320
have the same pattern of what do
you do when you don't have

454
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,800
anything to like you kind of got
to know me a bit.

455
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:08,960
I will 110% say COVID was a
reset for me to really check

456
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,480
myself in the mirror and say, oh
damn girl, so much of your

457
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,400
personality is based off of
outside validation and approval

458
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:15,680
seeking.
Like what gives?

459
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,480
Where it really put into
question when I was no longer

460
00:23:20,360 --> 00:23:24,640
was able to, you know, fill my
time by saying yes to the the

461
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,560
request of others.
And I say that because so much

462
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,040
of this new thing thought
pattern I've had for myself is

463
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:31,520
just 'cause I can't doesn't mean
I should.

464
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,080
Just cause someone thinks I'm
good at it doesn't mean I

465
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,760
should, should carry that out.
And it's hard when the

466
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,360
upbringing of that is, is
seeking out when you don't, when

467
00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:42,200
you're poor and, and maybe you
don't have a lot of

468
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,440
opportunities.
Do you have tenacity, charisma,

469
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,280
academics and the ability to
make an opportunity in a way for

470
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,240
yourself?
Should you have the the work

471
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,880
ethic to do so?
That means you don't say no

472
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,120
often.
That means you're a yes man.

473
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,000
That means not in a way that you
just do what's told, but if an

474
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,920
opportunity comes, you say,
well, you never know it's going

475
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:03,880
to come based off of this.
And that's great, that's great

476
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,320
until you until you start to
realize that that's also

477
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,240
embedded in a scarcity mindset.
That's great when it works out,

478
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,760
but that's that's odd when you
don't then have the ability to

479
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,040
build the muscle that is
discernment.

480
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,280
And then that's how for me
personally, that's how you get

481
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,360
into a situation where you sent
out save the dates and you

482
00:24:20,360 --> 00:24:21,960
realize, well, shit, I don't
want to get married, but God

483
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:23,520
damn, people are expecting me to
do it.

484
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:25,120
So I'm going to walk down the
aisle and waste eight years of

485
00:24:25,120 --> 00:24:26,640
my life.
And I say waste because I'm

486
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,600
still processing the work on me
trying to do the work and the

487
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,000
shadow work.
I'm thinking, no, no, no.

488
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,640
What was the lesson here, which
you hear a lot in my work that

489
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,920
I'm doing right now.
My third book is very heavily

490
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,800
rooted in as you'll see,
sometimes dear desperation gets

491
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,760
called dear depression.
And I'd laugh and say, you know

492
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,400
what, 1 and the same.
It's very melancholic in nature,

493
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,240
right?
Where love and liquid form

494
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,000
themed as well around this
question and this topic of

495
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:54,520
liquidity of love, whether that
self love, maternal love,

496
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,640
sister, open marriage, trials,
failures, all of these different

497
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,960
things.
This third book is is around the

498
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,760
why the third book is around
really looking in, and so I'll

499
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,120
I'll share the the title of it
if it's not jumping the gun in

500
00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:10,120
your order of operations here.
Yes, we love a scoop.

501
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,560
But it's titled The Things We Do
for Love Before we learn to love

502
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,960
ourselves.
Incredible, love it.

503
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:19,400
I'm all bad.
I want to pre-order it now.

504
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,080
Thank you.
I will be sending out a link for

505
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,560
pre-order when that time comes.
So I'm thinking of gosh,

506
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:28,080
September coming up.
I think so I've got and I'm 125

507
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,080
pages into it and I have the
real meat done.

508
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,640
Now it's to you know, I'm giving
myself in between this.

509
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,480
My my process is when I feel
like I've gotten the artistic

510
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,280
flush out.
I give it three weeks.

511
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,880
Busy myself with other things
and then come back with a fresh

512
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,040
eye and go, OK, what makes
sense, what doesn't, what was

513
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,000
that really leaning into that
just doesn't fit anymore.

514
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,520
That sort of thing.
I guess that's how I think about

515
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,600
emotions.
That's how I think about anger

516
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,000
as a motivator.
That's how I think about

517
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:55,680
boundaries.
And I probably could have a lot

518
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,920
more to say about it too, but
I'll let you ask another

519
00:25:57,920 --> 00:25:59,800
question.
Yeah, I mean, like I said,

520
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,360
that's an incredibly vivid
picture of how it all started

521
00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:05,360
for you.
Firstly, I owe a lot to having

522
00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:07,880
older sisters, so I probably
wouldn't know what a a Tumblr

523
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,720
girl was without them.
So I understand the aesthetic.

524
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:12,920
I understand of what you're
getting at.

525
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,640
The other thing is that just
COVID obviously is a cultural

526
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,040
moment and a cultural reset.
I mean, I don't think I've had a

527
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,800
single conversation on this
podcast where COVID has not

528
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,360
played a significant role.
Whether it's something

529
00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:32,000
absolutely tragic like people
who've lost loved ones because

530
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:36,360
they got COVID, or if it's the
yeah, the reassessment of, of

531
00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:39,160
where people are at in their
lives and what they what they

532
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,800
want out of their experience,
including their creative

533
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,000
endeavours, you know?
And to your point, during COVID,

534
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,480
it was part of my rule when I
would be journaling is in order

535
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:51,640
to be.
I don't know if you're familiar

536
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,520
with the thought process right
where when you're taking a

537
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,840
standardized test, people who
test poorly specifically on

538
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,040
standardized test, a lot of that
reason is because there's this

539
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,600
idea of someones like looming
you watching you, like people

540
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,320
are gonna judge you.
Like performance pressure kind

541
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:07,360
of thing.
Thank you.

542
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,200
I was like, I know there's a
word for it, I just don't know

543
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,360
it, so I'll put that in my back
pocket.

544
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,880
So in that same way where you
have sisters, you just said,

545
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,000
right.
So part of that was we agreed to

546
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,120
not read our journal, each
other's journals because we're,

547
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,240
we're all awful nosy, would go
and steal each other's clothes.

548
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,920
So that was one of the we've
always respected that boundary

549
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,840
of each other.
And so with that I had like I

550
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,080
said about like, I don't even
know how many journals, like 36.

551
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,160
I mean, I was 25 at the time, so
from when I was 14 and I'd never

552
00:27:36,360 --> 00:27:38,960
gone back to read them.
I just moved them from my house

553
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,880
to my rental house and was
looking at this box that I was

554
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:43,720
put on a bookshelf.
Like, well, now's about as good

555
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:45,880
a time as any.
So I started to go back and

556
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,080
look, and I started to see all
these repeating themes.

557
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:49,680
And it was at first
enlightening.

558
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,920
And then it was like, Dang,
girl, get it in gear.

559
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:54,000
Lock in.
You're talking about this is

560
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,000
something you were dealing with
and you were 16 and you're still

561
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,040
dealing with it right now at 20,
you know, in this journal at 22,

562
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,200
Like, let's figure that out.
Or there's something there we

563
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,000
need to process, right?
And Dear Desperation, I was very

564
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,640
intentional, I think now a
little bit begrudgingly, to

565
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,960
maintain the integrity of the
pieces that I wrote when I was

566
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,480
younger, even though it felt so
foreign and disconnected from

567
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,520
the writing style that I was
showcasing at the at 25 or 24.

568
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,960
Because there's some people who
get it, some people who don't.

569
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,120
So there's that layer of like, I
had to ask myself, what would I

570
00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:29,160
really be doing this for?
This was just literally for me,

571
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,720
like Dear Desperation.
Yes, it was I, I've come to find

572
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:37,320
out it's truly resonated with
folks in a way that I'm, I'm so

573
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,160
proud and happy that I did it in
the way that I, you know, did

574
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,160
with such vulnerability.
But originally this was just for

575
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:44,520
me.
It was for me and I and my

576
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,160
sisters.
And I mean, I, I dedicate the

577
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,760
first and I'll show you really
quickly here if it picks up,

578
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:53,080
right, dedicated the first page
to my sisters and I

579
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,440
intentionally, I mean, they're
literally me.

580
00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:03,160
And more part of that I think
was being intentional about, OK,

581
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,000
this is picking up some
traction.

582
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,320
This is really resonating with
people.

583
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:10,800
Like I felt moved by people
reaching out to me and saying

584
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:12,720
like, this was life changing for
me.

585
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:14,480
This open up doors to me.
I didn't think about where I'm

586
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,760
like, Oh my gosh, it was almost
decided for me.

587
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,960
That's a fairway to say like
after a while, it was like, I

588
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,200
didn't even think about whether
or not I was going to publish

589
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,440
anymore.
It was, Oh my gosh, I, I finally

590
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,680
have, you know, broken through
to what this was a testament of

591
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:30,160
just getting comfortable being
uncomfortable.

592
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,800
And once I did this, I I'm like,
I'm not tripping about it

593
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:37,600
anymore I'll be fine.
But with that in mind, my key

594
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:46,360
110% rule for myself when I am
compiling a book is if I am

595
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:50,600
putting it in to my layout and
it makes me uncomfortable or I

596
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,640
question, oh, is this too much?
Like is this going to be an

597
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,560
issue That can be many things.
Is this, you know, because it's

598
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,400
a true short story where maybe
involves somebody else or

599
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:01,920
something.
And obviously I change names and

600
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,480
all that jazz or usually don't
even name anybody or OK, well,

601
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,120
I'm a mom.
I'm talking about, you know, I'm

602
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,280
also other things, right?
So just that awareness that this

603
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,520
is probably going to rear its
ugly head in some way, shape or

604
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,080
form sometime.
And I have to be comfortable

605
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,240
with whatever that consequences.
And I don't view the word

606
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:18,720
consequence with a negative
connotation.

607
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,080
Anything has a consequence.
Anything has a, you know, cause

608
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:25,280
effect, right?
If I questioned it, I put it in.

609
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,280
If I say, hey, it's if it makes
me uncomfortable, is this too

610
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:29,840
much?
That is my sign to put it in and

611
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:34,360
I and it's a must for me.
Wow, so, so again, talking about

612
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:38,200
emotions, you kind of read that
not in your gut or something as

613
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:42,560
like this is the way, like I'm
feeling the resistance and that

614
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:44,560
is the way.
And, and, and like you said,

615
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,480
you, you've been able to get a
taste, if you like, of, of the

616
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:53,600
magic that can happen when you
put something personal out there

617
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,240
and it turns out to be more
universal than you probably ever

618
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,960
thought it would ever be, right?
A. 100%.

619
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,280
Hope you enjoyed this preview
clip.

620
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,800
To continue the conversation and
listen to the entire episode,

621
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,640
head over to the I Think
Therefore I Slam Patreon.

622
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:10,440
The link is in the show notes.