Paris Rosemont - Banana Girl Conquers the World

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Hi friends and welcome to season
3 of I Think Therefore I Slam.

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If this is your first time here,
let me bring you up to speed.

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My name is Andrew Rogerson, I'm
an award-winning spoken word

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poet from Melbourne, Australia.
On this podcast, I've been

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honoured to have talked with
some of the best spoken word and

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slam poetry artists from both
Australia and around the world.

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This season, not only will you
be getting more of the

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performances and interviews that
you know and love, but you're

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going to be hearing a lot more
from yours truly.

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That's right, I'll be dropping
some solo episodes throughout

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season 3 where I'll deep dive
into my own work and the things

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that inspire me.
Wherever you're listening to

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this, make sure that you're
subscribed or following so you

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don't miss any of the good
stuff.

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Thank you so much for listening.
Let's get on with it.

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Slam poetry doesn't care if it's
perfect.

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It's.
Time to slam.

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It's the biggest poem I've got
inside of her.

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She was a.
Thief, you love me to love a

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haunted house.
Blood black nothingness began to

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spin.
To this day, I hate pork chops.

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I am the master.
Of mine, man.

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I am the captain myself, back by
popular demand.

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It's I think therefore I Slam,
the podcast bringing you the

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best slam poetry and spoken word
artist from Australia and

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beyond.
My name is Andrew Rogerson,

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welcome back for 2026 punters.
This season is all killer, no

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filler.
I can tell you that right off

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the bat.
So we're going to get right into

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things.
My opening guest for the year is

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a multidisciplinary, multi
award-winning tie.

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Australian writer and author of
the poetry collections Banana

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Girl and The Barefoot Poetess.
They've been shortlisted for

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awards in Australia, Greece, UK
and the USA.

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The Barefoot Poetess was awarded
the distinguished favorite in

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the NYC Big Book Awards last
year.

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My guest has also recently
released their chat book Glitch.

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My guest has been published in
over 100 literary journals and

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anthologies worldwide,
everything from Australian

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Poetry Journal, Rabbit Splinter,
and the Sky Island Journal.

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They're the winner of the
Matthew Rocket Poetry Prize 2025

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and were long listed for the
Blake Poetry Prize 2026.

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They're also a critic for
Mascara Literary Journal, a

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guest editor for Written Off
Literary Journal, and they sit

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on the Hunter Writers Centre
board and chair the Poetry Books

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judging panel for the Western
Australian Premiers Book Awards

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2026.
So much responsibility.

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They've performed on festival
stages nationwide and

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internationally.
Please welcome the wildest of

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Wildcards.
Paris Rosemont.

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Hi, Paris.
Hello, thanks so much for having

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me on your show, Andrew.
No worries.

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Have you ever had someone like
give you that kind of hype up

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before a performance or an.
Interview.

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That was amazing.
That was the best hype up I've

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ever received.
That's my entire job here.

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Now, Paris, you have a great
honour today, which is you get

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to kick off the entire season's
worth of great interviews and

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insights on slam poetry.
You're going to start off with

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one of your spoken word pieces.
Did you want to give any intro

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to this or would you like to
jump right in?

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Just a brief intro, this one
comes from my debut, the poetry

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collection Banana Girl, and it
was one of the very first pieces

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I wrote on identity because I'd
noticed when I was attending

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writers festivals that people of
colour would be speaking about

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their cultural heritage and
backgrounds.

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And I'm like, why haven't I
written anything on the subject?

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Because it was something I was
probably a little bit afraid of

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approaching.
And so I thought, OK, I'm going

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to have to face my fears and
address what it is I'm not

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saying.
And so this is what resulted.

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Shotgun Smoke.
She has been living 1 foot in

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the Pacific Ocean, the other
dipping a curious toe in the

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Andaman Sea.
Who is she?

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Wildflower flourishing in the
hothouse till she grows tall as

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a poppy queuing for the
guillotine.

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Still she sighs and cries over
milk spilt from coconuts bought

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from fluro lit supermarkets
instead of farms, fertilised

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with her forefathers blood.
This girl, a shotgun curl of

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wispy grey, second hand smoke
inhaled through a foreign kiss,

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sucking down exotic backnotes of
sandalwoods, coating lungs with

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fine particle grit, scarlet ink
dropping water, confusion of

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blood.
What is her type?

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She is distraught.
She ought to know who she is by

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now, one of many lost little
girls and boys, a diaspora of

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homeless toys with fucked up
daddy issues.

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She is a wave crashing on
foreign shores, knocking on your

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white picket fence doors.
She heard the call.

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Daughter of the revolution,
Bitter gourd of dysfunction,

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mixed cocktail solution, all
cock a doodle Doo.

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She heard the call.
She heard the call.

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She is knocking on your door.
Yes, Paris.

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Amazing.
We are not mucking around in

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2026, I tell you what.
Thank you for bringing that to

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us today.
I got to say, your debut poetry

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collection, Banana Girl.
When I hear that title I can't

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help but think of the old.
I think it was the BBC cartoon

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Banana Man.
Have you heard of this?

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Yes, Eric, Banana man.
Yes.

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That's it.
So I'm always thinking like

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Paris is banana girl or
something like that, but I.

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Know, I sort of wanted to
reinvent myself as a superhero.

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Yeah, yeah.
I love that.

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Love that.
Tell us more about you know, the

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name of that initial poetry
collection.

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I suppose it was reclaiming
something that sometimes held as

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a sling against Asian
Australians in that we're called

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bananas where yellow on the
outside, white on the inside.

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And so it's a source of both
mockery but self deprecation.

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So I thought, OK, rather than
having people use things against

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me, I'm going to actually claim
it as my own.

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I'm out and proud, I'm a banana
girl and there's nothing to be

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ashamed of.
And so I made that my whole

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thing.
And there's a whole sort of back

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story as to how this sort of
persona evolved.

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But when I was at the Red Dead
Poetry Festival a couple of

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years ago, somehow the festival
director thought that I wanted a

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banana as a prop.
And so a couple of days before I

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was flying out to NT, they said,
oh, you'll be so pleased to hear

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your bananas arrived.
And I'm like, what?

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Oh, we ordered you a giant
inflatable banana.

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And I'm like, oh, great, what on
earth am I supposed to be doing

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with this?
And so I to incorporate it into

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my performance that night and it
became the star of the show

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because it's it's very
distinctive.

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And now people when I tour and
perform at festivals, they're

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like, are you bringing the
banana?

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And so it something quite
accidental has become a thing.

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You know, that reminds me of
like, you know, Katy Perry and

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Left Shark Like it's just become
exactly own little little meme.

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And hey, look, there's nothing.
There's no such thing as bad

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marketing.
So I'd say embrace the

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inflatable bananas.
Let's throw the inflatable

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bananas into the crowd.
Let's.

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That's exactly what happens.
I actually ejaculate the banana

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into the crowd.
Put pardon upon the climax of

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the piece.
That's so great.

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I love that.
Thanks Paris.

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So that's the origin story of of
the banana girl persona and the

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inflatable banana.
We love origin stories on I

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think therefore I slam and we
tend to find that either people

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say, oh, it was inevitable, but
I was I was going to do what I'm

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I'm doing now.
I've always written, or there is

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the story of like, oh, I never
thought I'd be doing what I'm

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doing now.
And then someone dragged me to

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an open mic and the rest is
history.

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I want to know Paris, what is
your origin story of starting to

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create and then share publicly
your work?

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It's probably a patchwork of
both of those things, really.

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The compulsion to write came out
of a place of real darkness.

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My life had fallen to shit.
Everything was going wrong.

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And I was at the point of pretty
much giving up on everything,

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which is a very dark story for
another time.

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But out of that, I began to
write.

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And writing gave me a sense of
purpose and it helped me process

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everything that I was going
through.

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And then once I sort of started
getting a little bit better,

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like in terms of emotionally
better, I started thinking I can

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actually craft some of this
stuff that I've written because

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it's stuff that other people
might resonate with as well.

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So I started actually working on
the craft of writing poetry

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rather than simply sort of
journaling or pouring it all out

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in a very sort of free form
fashion.

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And I enrolled in my first six
week course and one of the

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tutors said, have you ever tried
performing your poetry on an

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open mic?
And I had lived under such a

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rock, I didn't even know they
existed.

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And so I went to one just with
the intention of observing the

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lady at the door said, Oh,
you're here for poetry night.

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And I said, yes.
And she said, oh, what's your

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name?
And I thought we were just

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having a little chat and she,
she was writing my name down on

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the list.
And I'm like, oh, no, no, no,

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no, I'm not here to, to perform.
I just want to see, yes, see

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what it is.
And she's like, oh, we're a

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little bit light on tonight.
Go on, give it a go.

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And I thought, OK, well, I
actually don't have enough time

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to get nervous about this, so
might as well.

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And it was a kind of smaller
crowd that night as well.

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So I thought, OK, it's not too
bad.

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And because the people, when,
when I introduced my, I said,

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this is the first time I've ever
been in front of a microphone

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doing this sort of thing.
They were so lovely.

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They were very warm and
encouraging.

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And I thought this is a really
lovely thing to be able to take

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poetry from the page and be able
to share it with people and get

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real time reactions.
And there's just a sense of buzz

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and love in the room when you
share something and it resonates

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with other people.
And I was hooked from the very

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first time I I loved it.
It was Sappho in Glebe.

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Shout out to Sappho, Wonderful
Paris.

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We've featured some incredible
Asian Australian artists on the

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show, so everyone from Joe Yang
to the Lou Twins.

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And in your opening piece you
did touch on themes like

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diaspora and your cultural
inheritance.

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I want to know what is kind of
the Asian Australian experience

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like and how has poetry helped
kind of, I guess, solidify your

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identity of being from two
different places if I may say.

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I think the Asian Australian
experience is evolving.

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Asian Australians born today are
going to have a very different

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experience to ones born decades
ago.

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So I grew up in the 1980s, which
was shortly after the abolition

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of the White Australia policy.
So multiculturalism had come in

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as a concept, but it was still
so new that people hadn't quite

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got their heads around it.
And try as they made, we were

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still a little bit of a novelty
and people were still trying to

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figure out how to deal with
people who are different to the

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white Australians who were
predominant in Australian

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culture and society.
And so I very much felt like a

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fish out of water.
And yet because I came here as a

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baby, I didn't know any home
other than Australia.

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So it was a very disconcerting
experience of not really knowing

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where I belonged.
And poetry has helped me process

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the sense of displacement and
just the the confusion of that

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and trying to find a sense of
belonging and identity.

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I think that's what everyone, no
matter where they come from,

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ultimately searching for their
entire lives.

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Who am I and where do I belong
in society?

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Yeah, and and earlier you said
that one of the ways you've done

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this is by reclaiming an insult
or almost a slur and making it

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your own and turning it into
kind of your stage persona, you

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know, inflate of all bananas,
not, you know, included.

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Yeah.
Now that that's fascinating.

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Not only have you been, you
know, performing your work

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extensively for for a long time,
but you've also been a judge on

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competitions like living stories
up in Sydney.

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I want to know during that
process you're obviously reading

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submissions from from emerging
writers.

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What is something that kind of
lights you up and and pay more

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attention to someone else's
written work?

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00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,120
OK, first of all, I never put
anything down.

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I always read from beginning to
end because you they might

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redeem themselves if even if
it's off to a rocky start, you

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never know.
But what might make me just a

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little bit uncertain about a
piece is if it is full of

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cliches and if it's
melodramatic.

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So a lot of poetry, because it's
such heart writing, it's very

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difficult to get that across
without being all melodramatic

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00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:56,160
and woe is me, you know, the
world is ending and this is you

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00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,880
need to find something a little
bit original, a way of

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expressing things that's not
something that we've heard

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00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:06,440
before 1000 times.
And so the poetry that makes me

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00:13:06,680 --> 00:13:09,840
sit back and pay attention is
something that might surprise

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00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,840
me, whether that's with subject
matter or a beautiful turn of

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00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:15,760
phrase that's quirky or
interesting.

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00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:20,880
Somehow that sort of thing will
really spark my attention.

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00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:27,040
I know for me, maybe the central
challenge of writing performance

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00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,600
pieces is facing up to the fact
that, hey, there's so many

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00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,560
million words out there, so many
billion combinations.

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00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:35,680
I'm trying to find something
unique.

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00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,720
You know what I mean?
Like I try and, and, and it can

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00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:40,720
become my own worst enemy
because I think, oh, I don't

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00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,960
even want to reuse words, you
know, between pieces and

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eventually that that kind of
falls apart.

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So I think I'm a bit the same.
Like I love hearing someone say

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00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,200
something old in a new way, I
suppose, and that's what I guess

257
00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:58,320
I aspire to in in my writing.
Great to hear that, you know,

258
00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,400
you you always will will finish
pieces that you want to see

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00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,600
whether it, you know, redeems
itself through through the

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00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,320
process.
That's a very, very magnanimous

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00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:08,760
kind of approach to things, you
know, taking your time to go

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00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,840
through it all.
I think therefore I slam is

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00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:15,240
brought to you by the slam fam
on Patreon.

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00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,640
Yes, these are the generous,
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265
00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,200
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266
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,280
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267
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268
00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,680
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269
00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,640
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270
00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:39,960
on over to patreon.com/I TTIS or
click the link in the

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00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,120
description.
Now back to the conversation.

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00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,840
Tell me, what was it like
following up Banana Girl with

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00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,360
barefoot protests?
A lot of people, you know, they

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00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,280
talk about the the sophomore
slump, if you like, you know,

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00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,080
doing the follow up to the
original piece, especially

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00:14:58,120 --> 00:14:59,480
because it got so much
attention.

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00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:04,040
Was it like drawing blood from a
stone, or were you kind of in

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00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,520
the flow of things by then?
I was definitely in the flow of

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00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,120
things by then.
The publishing industry works

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00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,680
quite slowly and so by the time
Banana Girl had come out,

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00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,440
Barefoot Protests was almost
complete.

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00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,640
So it had been, I'd been
chugging along in the background

283
00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:23,640
working on that, and it was
quite a different collection.

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00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:28,200
So I felt nervous in a way in
that it the readers who had

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00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,160
enjoyed my first collection
might have not enjoyed the

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00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,080
second one because it was
different and it didn't feature

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00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,640
some of the things that they
might have liked about the first

288
00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:38,800
one.
But then again, I feel like I

289
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:42,040
matured with the second one and
so I was pleased with my

290
00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,720
progression and the way that had
shaped up.

291
00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,320
So it was a collection I'm
really proud of.

292
00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,000
Good stuff.
Now, we heard in your intro

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00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:54,440
Paris that, you know, you're
very decorated by now, but along

294
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,800
with those awards, you've also
been runner up several times

295
00:15:57,800 --> 00:15:59,760
for, you know, fellowships and
various awards.

296
00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,000
Now, depending on people's
views, they might view, you

297
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,280
know, being a runner up to
something as being like, oh,

298
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,720
coming so close, but so far that
kind of thing.

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00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,560
And that makes me think of, I
guess, rejection and the role

300
00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:15,200
that rejection might play in the
the publishing process and the

301
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,600
poetry process.
What is a time that you've

302
00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:23,240
actually received a no rather
than a yes in your work and

303
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,120
that's forced you to change your
approach to your writing?

304
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,800
Can you tell us some stories?
Interesting question.

305
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:33,280
Well, I get a lot of rejections.
So any writer is going to get a

306
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,400
lot of rejection.
So you really have to learn to,

307
00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:40,360
to toughen up and to to take it
on the chin because you're not

308
00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:42,560
going to get the successes
without the rejections.

309
00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:47,400
But if it's like an isolated
thing that I've submitted into,

310
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:52,000
I'm not going to take that no to
heart in that I'm not going to

311
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,000
let that alter the course of
what I'm doing because that's

312
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,200
just one isolated opinion.
They don't know me and my

313
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,520
writing holistically.
So while I might take their

314
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:05,040
feedback on board and feedback,
to be honest, is very rare, They

315
00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,119
don't have time to give feedback
most of the time.

316
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,960
But on the rare occasions they
do, I will consider what they've

317
00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:12,599
said.
And sometimes there are

318
00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:15,000
recurring threads that are
coming through then then I'll

319
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,880
sit back and think, maybe I need
to reshape, reconsider.

320
00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:23,640
But where I take advice on
board, most of all, if it's a

321
00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,680
sort of no is through
mentorships.

322
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,520
And so when the mentors I've
worked with for quite a while or

323
00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:34,680
at, you know, in an in depth
manner have said no to certain

324
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:39,200
things for some reason, after
the sting wears off, I really

325
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,560
take that on board and consider
whether I want to adopt or

326
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:44,720
reject that.
And it's not always because

327
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:48,000
they're more established than I
am and should know what they're

328
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,560
doing, that I will take their
advice because my stuff is

329
00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,680
ultimately my stuff.
And that even the fact that I'm

330
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,920
addressing my mind towards what
they're saying is helpful in

331
00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:00,280
knowing what I want or don't
want in my writing.

332
00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,040
So with my second collection I
made a pretty radical change.

333
00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:10,720
My mentor at the time was
helping me sift out and cull the

334
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,320
poems because there were way too
many and the ones she removed

335
00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,600
were the image based ones, so
the ones with interesting

336
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:21,240
formats and and layouts.
And that had been a really

337
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:22,960
strong selling point for Banana
Girl.

338
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:27,200
People liked the experimental
nature and inventiveness of the

339
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,480
way I played with the page white
spaces and the the way the words

340
00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,280
just sort of danced across the
page.

341
00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,840
My mentor said, if you really
want to be taken seriously in

342
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,960
the industry, I would suggest
you remove the visual elements.

343
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,600
And I'm like, oh, but that's the
core of who I've established

344
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:50,040
myself to be.
And so it took a lot for me to

345
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:55,640
really let that advice sink in.
And ultimately, I did what she

346
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,800
suggested because I wanted to
give my best shot at being a

347
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,400
good poet, whatever that may be.
But I wanted to see how far I

348
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:04,920
could make it within the
industry.

349
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,200
I did that and the book did
really well.

350
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:13,040
So I think it was solid advice.
But then I released a chat book

351
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,760
recently called Glitch, and that
one had all the pieces that I

352
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:18,800
pulled out from from the second
collection.

353
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:20,640
So it was like my little passion
project.

354
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:22,680
Like I'm not here to win any
awards with Glitch.

355
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,240
I'm just here to have fun.
Let let the the playfulness come

356
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,840
out.
And I am going to, you know, do

357
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,680
upside down and all around it.
Yeah.

358
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,720
I was about to ask like is there
a chance that those kind of

359
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:37,560
shape based poems will make a
comeback?

360
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,600
But there it is.
You know they go underground and

361
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:40,960
then they come up when?
Yeah.

362
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,240
So it just wasn't right for that
particular collection.

363
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:45,600
And I really respect that
advice.

364
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,280
It was hard advice to take at
the time, but ultimately the

365
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:52,280
right choice for that one.
And you're right, I I was able

366
00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,360
to salvage the ones that I
didn't put in there and they

367
00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:58,120
became a collection of their
own, which feels like a proper,

368
00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,880
you know, chat book collection
because of the cohesiveness of

369
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:06,680
the style or, or cohesiveness in
there uncohesiveness, if that's

370
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:10,400
a word.
Unconvention, what I'm hearing

371
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:14,280
Paris is that ability to be, I
guess, teachable or or open to

372
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,440
feedback.
Sounds like it's really, really

373
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:20,000
important, like you said, if you
want to have a, a shot at

374
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,320
building up a, a body of work
within Australian poetry.

375
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,840
Are there any other, you know,
top three qualities that you

376
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,640
think a writer needs if they
want to really take a run at it?

377
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,480
I mean, does it look like having
a thick skin, for example?

378
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:34,280
What?
What do you think?

379
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,440
So teach ability.
So the willingness to learn and

380
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,920
to absorb and to be able able to
adapt, it would be 1.

381
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,040
Also persistence.
Persistence because you will get

382
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,640
rejected so many times you will
feel like giving up.

383
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,280
I don't know a single writer who
hasn't felt inadequate in the

384
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:56,640
face of so many rejections.
But I always feel like your

385
00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,160
success is just around the
corner.

386
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,000
If you just keep trying, you
know, ultimately you will get

387
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,000
there.
You just have to keep trying.

388
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,120
There's if you give up, then
you're gone.

389
00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:07,960
Like you're out of the race.
You just have to keep on

390
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,120
plodding along and, and giving
it your best shot.

391
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,480
And then the third is.
I think playfulness.

392
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,800
There's a tendency with poetry
especially to get all serious

393
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,160
and highfalutin.
And, you know, and, and I did

394
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,800
that for a while too, to be
honest, because I want to be a

395
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,600
serious poet.
But then I like this is a little

396
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,680
bit boring.
I want, I don't, I don't want to

397
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,200
do that.
I'm I, what I actually do these

398
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,480
days is I love form.
It's not that I don't respect

399
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,520
tradition and convention, but I
like to also play with it

400
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,640
sometimes as well.
And so I think if you retain a

401
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,880
sense of playfulness, it doesn't
become a chore.

402
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,160
It doesn't become something
you're doing just to score the

403
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:53,080
goals or to hit the marks.
People can tell when there's

404
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,040
real love and passion in what
you do.

405
00:21:55,120 --> 00:21:58,000
And so I think if you retain a
sense of playfulness, the spirit

406
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,680
will always be there.
If you retain a sense of

407
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,040
playfulness, the spirit will
always be there.

408
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,200
That's a quotable quote and I
think you're right.

409
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,480
I think audiences and I think
readers in Australia have a very

410
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,040
fine attuned bullshit radar, for
lack of a better word, like, you

411
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,200
know, they'll they'll find out
if, if things aren't coming from

412
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,600
a genuine place.
Paris, would you say in the

413
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:22,200
general respect that some of the
the Nos and the rejection or or

414
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,760
or whatnot that you have faced
has led to further fuel for your

415
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,440
creativity and further
determination to what you're

416
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,320
trying to do?
Yes, so probably one of the

417
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,800
biggest.
It wasn't a no as such, but I

418
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:40,520
had a mentorship session with
Diane Seuss from the US and it

419
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:44,960
was a narrative, lyrical piece
that was quite different to some

420
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:46,440
of the other writing I've been
doing.

421
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,280
I wanted to workshop this one
with her because it was

422
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,480
different and I wasn't sure
whether I was hitting the mark

423
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,960
with it or not.
And she said, Paris, have you

424
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,880
ever tried writing a novel?
Because I think you've got a

425
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,280
whole book in you.
And I'm like, Oh well, a couple

426
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,720
of people have suggested it, but
it's so far out of my domain, I

427
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:07,160
wouldn't even know where to
start.

428
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,040
And she said start here.
You've got the material, you've

429
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:15,080
got the feel for something
novelistic within you, something

430
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,240
that you can really stretch out
into a juicy story.

431
00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:23,400
And so following that, started
writing my very first novel,

432
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,640
which I'm still working on very
slowly, but it's it's a

433
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,280
different kettle of fish, such a
different skill, but I'm really

434
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,680
enjoying the challenge of it.
And so yes, that has definitely

435
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,240
led to something that was pretty
much a career swerve for me

436
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,720
because I thought I, I'd sort of
told myself these past four

437
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:42,720
years, I'm a poet.
This is what I'm do.

438
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,520
This is what I'm building
towards.

439
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,240
And then suddenly, oh hey, hang
on, I want to write a novel.

440
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,600
It's so easy to get pigeonholed,
I guess and, and to pigeonhole

441
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,320
yourself and just go I'm, I'm a
1 trick pony.

442
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,840
This is this is what I do.
You know I want to do this well.

443
00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:59,400
So.
Well, it seemed like madness to

444
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,000
have worked so hard all these
years and and suddenly to sort

445
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,560
of not be throwing it away, but
to be branching out into

446
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,320
something where I'm going to
start on the bottom rung again.

447
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,200
And so there's a lot of work
ahead of me.

448
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,960
But yeah, you just do whatever
calls you, I suppose.

449
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,400
Yeah, I guess it's a, it's a
little bit of ego death.

450
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,720
It's a little bit of, like you
said, starting over, beginners

451
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,000
minds, you know, let's try.
Yeah, it's quite humbling.

452
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,720
Yeah, yeah.
I want to know more about this

453
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:26,480
this debut novel that you're
working on.

454
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:30,560
The title is Bruised Fruit.
So again, kind of other theme

455
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,880
with with some of the the other
titles that you've had.

456
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,040
Can you give us a little
synopsis or, or tell us what

457
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,320
that title, that phrase kind of
means to you?

458
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,320
Yeah, so you actually picked up
on the fact that it plays upon

459
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,640
banana girl.
So I've got the fruit thing

460
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,480
coming through.
But in Thai culture, a lot of

461
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:52,760
nicknames are fruit based, OK.
And so I don't, I don't know why

462
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:54,720
this is, but it it's just a
thing.

463
00:24:54,960 --> 00:25:00,720
And so my nickname and Thai is
Pear and I, I know a Moe which

464
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,480
is short for watermelon then
more.

465
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,640
And yeah, so lots of of fruit
based nicknames.

466
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,800
And I like the concept of
bruised fruit because a bruise

467
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:15,280
is something that sometimes you
can see, but sometimes they they

468
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,440
go deep as well.
There are a lot of bruises we

469
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,160
don't see.
And I like the nuance in the

470
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:24,760
layering of that.
It's just, it's just very, I

471
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:30,440
don't know, very sensual and
very deep and, and yeah, it just

472
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,680
carries a lot, I feel.
And if we extend the metaphor a

473
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,000
bit, I mean, I, I literally have
a, a little bit of a bruised

474
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:42,160
banana here on the side, but
some people will turn, you know,

475
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,680
bruised bananas into, into
banana bread kind of thing.

476
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,600
And they're.
Like so the reinvention, yeah.

477
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:49,440
They're the best for that.
Do you know what I mean?

478
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,480
Everyone's got a different point
where they're like, oh, I like

479
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,240
my fruit like this.
I like it overripe or whatever

480
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,400
or, or I like it when it's when
it's like this.

481
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,360
So yeah, I think there's a,
there's a lot of depth to that

482
00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:01,880
title.
It's a work of fiction, but

483
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,160
there's a lot of me injected
into there as well.

484
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,160
So I'm having a lot of fun
playing with the characters

485
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,760
because I can either get my
revenge on certain people who've

486
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,720
been mean to me, or I can
rewrite the narrative.

487
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:18,080
And so I can choose better or
even worse outcomes for me that

488
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,960
that entertain me.
I'm like the puppeteer of my own

489
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,880
story.
Yeah, so semi autobiographical,

490
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:28,840
brilliant.
Well, we, we can't wait to to

491
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,960
see when that comes out.
Paris, I think we'd love to hear

492
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:36,000
your second piece for today.
OK, this one comes from my

493
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,200
second poetry collection,
Barefoot Poetess.

494
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,880
It's called Diagnosis Eccrasis,
a high.

495
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,960
Bun after Sarah Jane's
silhouette watercolours bleed

496
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,440
Feathered shoreline silhouettes.
Rorschachesque inkblots.

497
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:57,440
How to carve a poet out of a
pumpkin With great care, or none

498
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,000
at all.
Be sure to wear latex gloves, a

499
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,600
fishmonger's apron, goggles,
galoshes.

500
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,520
They bleed a lot.
Find a nerve, make an incision.

501
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,320
Oh, watch how they gush and
splatter onto the butcher's

502
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,360
paper.
Now read the splotches like

503
00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:18,880
Carmine tinted tea leaves.
Of course they carry deeper

504
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,040
meanings.
It's up to you to find out what.

505
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,880
It's a butterfly.
Did you just yawn?

506
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:31,160
Sorry I don't excite you more.
Thank fuck this illegitimate

507
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,000
haibun is starting to take
shape.

508
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,600
Sometimes I worry about my well
running dry, you know?

509
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,880
Like when will I write my last
good poem?

510
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:45,440
Has it already been written?
As a poet of just two years, six

511
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,960
months and 28 days, give or
take, it seems a little sad to

512
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,000
potentially already be a washed
out.

513
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,320
Has been.
Then again, better than being a

514
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,400
never was.
So anyhow, this.

515
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:04,680
Well, it's still wet, obviously.
A fan tailed shell, an oyster

516
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:09,760
dribbling pearlescent mucus.
Upon closer inspection of her

517
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,920
anatomy, the flesh is more pert
than languidly spread oyster

518
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:18,240
flaps, more like a tight muscle,
whiskered pubes and all.

519
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,120
Did you know that some bivalve
mollusks mass reproduce in a

520
00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:25,320
phenomenon called broadcast
spawning?

521
00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:31,040
It's one gigantic sea orgy, a
salty, foaming, free for all

522
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,160
potluck.
Perhaps I need to step away from

523
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,040
the doomscrawling 'cause now I
can't Unsee the footage of this

524
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:42,280
synchronised trickle of white,
not unlike the humankind

525
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,240
drifting out on the tide,
possibly at the very beach I

526
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,320
swim in.
It wouldn't be the first time I

527
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,360
gag on something foreign.
I've swallowed.

528
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,160
I hadn't even been actively
searching.

529
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,680
The algorithm suggested it for
me.

530
00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,280
What do you think that says
about me, Doc?

531
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,680
The C word.
I can't bring myself to say it.

532
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:11,720
No, not cunt, worse cancer.
So the scare really scared me.

533
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,920
I've been almost ready to go by
my own hand then.

534
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:17,920
Chuckle.
Snort.

535
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,160
Oh, what a plot.
Twist Fate thought it'd be a

536
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,440
lark to take that choice away
from me.

537
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,800
I realised I wasn't ready to go
after all.

538
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,440
Not like that.
Quick and clean would have been

539
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,240
my modus operandi.
Nobody wants an ugly death.

540
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,960
I see a vulva inside a breast.
I'm aroused.

541
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,920
Does this mean I'm queer?
I'm talking about my sexuality

542
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:49,080
here, doctor, not my
peculiarity, though there is no

543
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,240
doubting that I am indeed a
strange little bird.

544
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:59,720
Do I terrify?
Hey, Speaking of saying new

545
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,480
things that no one's ever heard
before, I don't think I've I've

546
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,800
ever heard oyster reproduction
described in such a way that was

547
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,800
that was incredible.
You're going to have to look it

548
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,640
up now because yeah, seeing it
was eye opening.

549
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,200
I'm like, oh, this is just got
to go in a poem.

550
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:21,000
So many, so many layers to that.
Now, Paris, I want you to be my

551
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,480
teacher for a few minutes here,
because apologies for my poetry

552
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,840
ignorance, but you'd refer to
this piece as a high boon.

553
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,280
Is that a particular format of
poetry?

554
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:31,040
Tell me what?
It is.

555
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:36,600
It's an old Japanese form, OK.
It intersperses passages of

556
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:40,760
haiku with prose.
And so each one sort of

557
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,960
interlinks.
So haiku, prose haiku, and what

558
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,240
the haiku serves as is to
distill the concepts, the

559
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,320
themes, and they act as a
prelude to the prose passage

560
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,400
that are going to follow, and
then a bridge to the next one

561
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,240
that's going to come.
So it's a beautiful form that

562
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,400
that weaves itself so well.
And it's segways, you know,

563
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,120
between the different sections.
Right.

564
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,160
So the high part of it is from
haiku.

565
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,440
I'm very familiar with haiku.
They're they're always quite

566
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,760
fun.
So yeah, kind of smashing 22

567
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:12,960
formats together.
That's good.

568
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,000
I also, you know, there's so
many layers to what you've just

569
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:20,000
shared in the poem, but I love
how you talked about a bit of

570
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,000
the anxiety of like, have I
written my last good poem?

571
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,040
That is, that is a thought I
have every day.

572
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:27,560
It's.
A constant as a writer.

573
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,720
Still, I never know like whether
I've got another one in me.

574
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,440
Yeah, yeah.
Do you think about your writing

575
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,560
as having like what I'm trying
to say is, do you think you have

576
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,200
a poem that is your best, that
is your pinnacle, or do you

577
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:41,960
think?
It's still come.

578
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,840
Oh, I can't definitively
pinpoint 1 as my best.

579
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:53,120
I've got so many different ones
that are dear to me in different

580
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,200
ways.
So many different ones that I

581
00:31:55,200 --> 00:32:01,240
find are technically very strong
and thematically powerful in in

582
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,080
different ways as well.
So how can you compare the the

583
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,400
fruit bowl as such?
How can you say this is the best

584
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,640
fruit for all time?
You'll like different ones for

585
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,360
different purposes at different
times.

586
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,040
And so, yeah, you've you've
asked me the impossible

587
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:16,920
question.
I can't pick between my

588
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,080
children.
Yes, that's it.

589
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,080
That's it.
No, no favorite children around

590
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:21,440
here.
No.

591
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,440
And I'm sure that if you ask
your readers or your audience,

592
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,440
you'd get all kinds of different
answers because I.

593
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,640
Do yes and so and I love that as
well because it's really

594
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,960
interesting to see what other
people are picking as their

595
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,760
favourites and they're sometimes
they surprise me.

596
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:39,080
Some of the sort of smaller
ones, I suppose the the more

597
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:43,480
throwaway ones will really
capture readers attention

598
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,160
because of something that it
says, because it might be

599
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,160
particularly quirky.
For example, you, you like the

600
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,840
oyster thing, something in
something I've said, a reader

601
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:52,600
might say, I have never heard
that before.

602
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,520
And it's just, you know, yeah,
I'm keeping that.

603
00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:00,480
Love it, love it.
Hey, quick pep talk.

604
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,360
If you're enjoying the episode,
I'd love it if you could leave a

605
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:07,840
rating review, comment or like
wherever you're listening right

606
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:09,520
now.
You know how this works.

607
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,320
Every little bit of digital
interaction helps people to find

608
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,600
the show and keeps the poetry
flowing.

609
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,640
And if you want to do something
extra special, please share the

610
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,680
episode with someone who you
think will vibe with it.

611
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:21,640
That also helps with all of the
above.

612
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,520
Thanks so much for listening.
And now back to our guest.

613
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,960
I want to talk a bit now about,
I guess, taking risks versus

614
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,880
playing it safe.
Paris, what, what do you think

615
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,520
in your time riding is the
riskiest creative choice that

616
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,440
you've ever made?
And who or what gave you the

617
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:46,720
courage to take that risk?
My very first mentor was through

618
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,560
a fellowship with Allie
Whitelock, and she taught me

619
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,480
both by telling me directly and
when I read her poetry that you

620
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:59,280
can actually swear in poetry.
So I had been so classically

621
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,840
trained.
All I had read were the greats,

622
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,280
older poets where there was no
swearing.

623
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,600
It was very restrained and
refined.

624
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,520
And to read contemporary poetry
where it was a free for all

625
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,400
opened my mind.
It really broadened my horizons.

626
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,159
I'm like, what?
You can actually do that?

627
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,120
Is that allowed?
And it's like, yeah, who's

628
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,080
stopping you?
And she said you can write

629
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,719
whatever you want, get it all
out there at first instance.

630
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:28,040
And then if you want to come
back and sort of not censor it,

631
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,400
but remove certain parts that
might be a little bit sensitive

632
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,639
or you may not wish to share
with a wider audience, that's

633
00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:37,480
your prerogative.
But her advice was to just get

634
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,120
it all out in its raw form
first, because that's when you

635
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,280
have the most adventurous
things.

636
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,040
Did that feel liberating to you
in terms of.

637
00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:46,520
Immensely.
Permission.

638
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:47,320
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's.

639
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:51,360
Like, yeah, you taught all your
life to be a proper lady and

640
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:55,000
never swear and and all of that.
Well, in through all my school

641
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,720
years, I never swore.
None of my schoolmates ever

642
00:34:57,720 --> 00:34:59,360
heard me swear.
I was very proper.

643
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,240
I was a bit like that too.
Yeah.

644
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,640
And so now I think a lifetime of
repression is just surfacing on

645
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,760
all my poetry.
It's like, yeah, I'm just

646
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,920
letting it loose and and it's a
whole lot of fun.

647
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:13,680
Oh, fantastic.
Well, that that's some wonderful

648
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:15,800
guidance.
That's that Ali provided there.

649
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,640
It makes me think as well of,
you know, people hold

650
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,800
Shakespeare in such high regard.
But of course, you know, you

651
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,160
don't have to dig too far to
realize that there is, you know,

652
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:30,440
serious innuendo and their
equivalent to to cursing

653
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,440
etcetera.
Like it's at the time it was, it

654
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,560
was considered kind of course or
for the common person, it

655
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,160
wasn't.
He was body, he was rude, he was

656
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,280
crude.
He appealed to the the people,

657
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,240
the working class, you know, the
masses.

658
00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:47,640
And so they were all all for it.
Yeah, absolutely.

659
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,880
So there's there's that element
of subversion, I suppose of, of

660
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,400
expectations of what you're
doing going from risk to I guess

661
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,720
the concept of, of playing it
safe.

662
00:35:58,240 --> 00:36:03,040
Have you ever felt pressure to
write safer work in order to get

663
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:04,840
published?
Is that or is that something

664
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:06,840
that you you push against?
You've already mentioned this

665
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:11,040
story of kind of changing one of
your formats, but I have there

666
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,480
been other times when you've
felt like you've had to

667
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:19,200
compromise on your vision?
Yes, a pretty early on I was

668
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,600
getting a lot of rejections and
I was reading some of the

669
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:27,960
publications that I was getting
rejected from and they all seem

670
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,720
to play it kind of safe.
And I thought, OK, to be

671
00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:35,600
published it means I have to try
and, you know, scrub up a little

672
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:37,600
bit and play it a little bit
safer as well.

673
00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:42,320
And so I, I experimented with
that and to be honest, it

674
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:47,000
actually did bring me a little
bit of success in those realms.

675
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,600
But once I got that success, it
was enough to prove to myself

676
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:56,240
that the calibre of my writing
was of high enough standards.

677
00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,040
And once I got that out of the
way, I thought to myself, well,

678
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,800
this isn't really what I want to
write.

679
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:08,000
You know, achievement unlocked.
Now I can we come back to play,

680
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,840
you know, I can play again.
I can do what I want.

681
00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:15,920
And so I began to to write, I
think, truer to myself.

682
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:20,200
And I realized that the
publications that are not going

683
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,040
to accept my writing are
probably not the ones that I

684
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:24,840
really want to be published in
anyway.

685
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:29,160
And so I started to look for
more underground, quirky places

686
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:34,920
that do embrace the spirit of
rebellion and and that sort of

687
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,080
thing.
And so that's where my pieces

688
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,360
found good homes that really
appreciated some of the more

689
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,200
deviant.
Stuff, the deviant stuff, yeah,

690
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,200
I think it's tremendously
exciting when you see indie

691
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:51,520
presses or or self-publishing
projects or platforms like Sub

692
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,800
Stack where that feeling of
playing it safe is, is brushed

693
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,960
to the side.
And it's really a blank canvas

694
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,600
for people to to do what they
want.

695
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,480
And it's it's great that you've
had, you know, both sides of the

696
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,040
coin.
If you like you've, you've taken

697
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,200
some risks and, and, and you've
also, you also know what it is

698
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,280
to, to compromise on a vision
and, and you seem convinced that

699
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,720
you want to, you want to stick
to what, to your guns, really,

700
00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:16,760
and, and embody your full self
in your work.

701
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,000
Now you're, you've got some
interesting plans coming up.

702
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,440
You're headed to New York City
soon.

703
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,440
What's What's all that about?
I am.

704
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,320
So my second poetry collection,
Barefoot Poetess, was awarded

705
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,320
Distinguished Favorite in their
New York City Big Book Awards

706
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:36,320
and I happened to get a Create
NSW grant to fly me to New York

707
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,000
next month and I'll be able to
receive the award in person,

708
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,120
give a little speech and attend
a three day book conference,

709
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,600
which sounds amazing.
I'm incredibly excited because

710
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,320
I've never been to the US
before, so this will be my first

711
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,920
big adventure in the Big Apple.
That's huge.

712
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:56,760
And I think that just shows the
importance of creative grants in

713
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,520
Australia like it, it almost
seems like every year that we

714
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,280
see funding get cut for this or
that.

715
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,560
So the fact that there are still
so I mean enduring funds that

716
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,200
can unlock things like this,
like you said, it's a brand new

717
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:09,920
experience.
I just think it's so.

718
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,720
Grateful.
Oh, as a poet, I live under the

719
00:39:12,720 --> 00:39:16,800
poetry line, under the poverty
line, that.

720
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,200
Is that's that is such a good
Freudian slip there?

721
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,040
Should we call it the poetry
line there?

722
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,080
Poetry line.
Totally.

723
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,880
But that's the depressing state
of reality in the arts.

724
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:33,520
It's not a sustainable living.
You have to really, you have to

725
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,880
have a lot of grit and tenacity
to survive as a poet.

726
00:39:37,240 --> 00:39:39,800
Yeah.
So yeah, incredibly grateful to

727
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,080
the people who award grants and
fellowships and whatnot, because

728
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,640
I wouldn't be able to have.
You're educated myself.

729
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,600
I came to poetry from scratch,
having never done classes

730
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,640
before, and I started really
learning, backfilling the gaps

731
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,600
in my knowledge.
I'd always been a reader, but

732
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,440
that's quite different to
writing yourself, turning your

733
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,520
own hand to to producing the
work.

734
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:02,200
Yeah, having skin in the game,
as they say.

735
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,760
Yes, exactly.
Do you think there's a world

736
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:08,480
where you go over to New York
and you love it so much that you

737
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:13,440
become an expat and and start a
new life in in the States as a

738
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:14,800
poet?
Oh.

739
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,200
Knee jerk reaction is no like as
exciting as it is, I think I'd

740
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,640
be happy to visit, you know,
live, live the the high life

741
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,320
there for a while.
But I love Australia so much.

742
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,960
It's, it's my home.
I love so much about it, the

743
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:30,800
beaches, the culture, the
people.

744
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,160
If I were to move anywhere, to
be honest, it will probably be

745
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,920
Europe.
Europe has such a an arts loving

746
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,200
culture.
It's ingrained in society and

747
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:45,600
and there's such an appreciation
which sadly I feel Australia is

748
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:49,520
perhaps a little lacking, not
within my community, but you see

749
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,720
on the news it always ends with
sports and sports is so

750
00:40:52,720 --> 00:40:55,280
prevalent.
And yeah, that's not to say that

751
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,560
it's counter to the arts, but if
the arts were given a little

752
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:04,000
more value and akin to the
sports, perhaps it would be a

753
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,280
society that would be more on
par with what we see in Europe.

754
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,600
I reckon there's a lot of room
for collaboration there.

755
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,680
I mean, look at every time we
have an opening ceremony for the

756
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,680
Olympics and, and the incredible
things that go down there in

757
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,800
terms of of music or I know
there has been spoken word at

758
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,360
some of these places as well.
When you mentioned Europe, my

759
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:27,240
thoughts turn to my previous
guest, Josh Cake, who is, you

760
00:41:27,240 --> 00:41:30,080
know, he's been in Edinburgh
and, and Paris as well,

761
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:31,680
different places doing things
over there.

762
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,920
So, you know, I think that was
definitely a concerted decision

763
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,200
from him saying that he was
going to embed himself in that,

764
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,880
in that kind of scene.
So it makes a lot of sense that

765
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,520
I, I think you do find a lot of
Australian expats in Europe, you

766
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,240
know, dancers, things like this.
These are things I remember him

767
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,600
talking about.
So big trip to to New York City

768
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:53,520
soon.
What else is coming up for you?

769
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:57,200
Obviously you're you're working
on the novel Bruce Fruit, but

770
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,720
what else can you tell us about
what you're working on?

771
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:04,040
Projects, tours, whatever.
Yeah, I've got a couple of

772
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:07,200
festivals lined up, but more,
it's interesting.

773
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:11,720
So less on the performance side
of things, but more on panels

774
00:42:11,720 --> 00:42:15,600
and in moderating capacities,
which is an interesting shift

775
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:20,120
because I've been, I think I've
been doing festivals for a few

776
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,120
years now.
And so the festival organizers

777
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:23,640
are seeing me in a different
light.

778
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,360
They said, OK, we can see you as
a performer and doing your

779
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,840
poetry stuff, but we can also
see that you've got a skill in

780
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:31,760
the knowledge that you've
accumulated.

781
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,840
And the fact that you're widely
read means that you can really

782
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:39,040
elicit a lot of topics and tie
them together in, in panel

783
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,080
discussions.
And so I'm I'm excited about

784
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,200
branching into this new sphere
for me.

785
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,040
I guess that again that that US
trip and that US audience, how

786
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,920
much interactivity have you had
with US audiences or is that is

787
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,800
that also quite new for you?
Interaction in printed form.

788
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,360
So a lot of the journals I've
been published in, I've been

789
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:02,800
accepted in the US and Europe
more than I have been in

790
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,280
Australia.
So Australia was a late adopter

791
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,480
of my work.
I think because some of the

792
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:13,120
edgier pieces that the market is
so big overseas that there are

793
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:17,080
smaller sort of sub niches where
they can accept things that are

794
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:20,040
a little bit outside of the
conservative mainstream.

795
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:21,960
So they were quick to take my
work.

796
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:26,280
And so I've built quite a a big
following in the US and Europe

797
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,480
and Australia came as a
secondary thing.

798
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:33,760
And really it was only because
my debut collection received a a

799
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:37,240
pretty big short listing for the
Association for the Study of

800
00:43:37,240 --> 00:43:39,920
Australian Literature.
That was the first time.

801
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,200
Yeah, it was a a big one.
It was the first time people

802
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,080
took me seriously here.
Before that, it was like, oh,

803
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:50,000
she just writes poetry that is
fun, but it's not proper poetry.

804
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,880
But once I got that
shortlisting, they were like,

805
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:58,760
oh, OK, so this.
The industry body recognizes her

806
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,360
work as something that has merit
and meaning within contemporary

807
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,920
Australian literature.
Maybe we should start paying

808
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,280
attention too.
Yeah, there you go.

809
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:09,720
So yeah.
So it's sort of yeah, one of

810
00:44:09,720 --> 00:44:12,320
those follow on things that you
have to be successful in order

811
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,360
to become more successful.
Sure, sure.

812
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,120
Getting a foot in the door, as
they say.

813
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,840
And so that's really exciting
that you'll be able to go over

814
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,360
there and have a bit of a closer
relationship with the people who

815
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,400
first paid attention to.
Yeah.

816
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,400
Exactly.
Yeah, I'm really looking forward

817
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:27,840
to.
That fantastic We're going to

818
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:31,520
use this episode to kick off the
new creative analogy for the

819
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,240
season as well.
So in previous seasons I've

820
00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:38,000
talked to my guest about things
like if your creative work was a

821
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,720
meal that you took to a dinner
party, what kind of food would

822
00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:44,000
it be or last season we did if
it's an instrument in an

823
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,840
orchestra, what would it be
Well, we have a brand new

824
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:50,240
creative analogy for season 3
which Paris you're going to kick

825
00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:52,520
us off with.
I want to ask you if your

826
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:57,200
creative work is a color or a
shade on the color spectrum,

827
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:02,400
What color do you think it is?
I would say that it's purple.

828
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:05,320
Okay.
Because I find purple.

829
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:12,600
It has a liminal sense to it.
It's mysterious, it's Moody, it

830
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,480
can shift and morph depending on
what shade.

831
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,520
So you've got the bright,
vibrant shades of purple, you've

832
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:22,840
got the soft, pastely, you know,
pretty shades, and you've got

833
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:27,080
the, the darker sort of more
pensive, opulent shades, I

834
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:30,680
suppose.
And so I I love how purple is is

835
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:34,120
so rich in in what it can evoke.
First thing I think of when I

836
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,840
hear purple is lavender, right?
And of course that reminds me of

837
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,240
the smell.
So it's a very central thing

838
00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:42,760
that that comes up for me.
Fantastic.

839
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,800
Well, as in Seasons Pass, you
know, as I ask all my guests

840
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,560
this, we're going to get
hopefully a nice little colour

841
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,360
wheel of people's experience.
So I want to hear some purples,

842
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:53,480
I want to hear some some
oranges, I want to hear some

843
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:55,240
red.
So I'm excited to see what comes

844
00:45:55,240 --> 00:45:57,520
out of it.
We also turn our attention to

845
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,240
our favorite stolen segment on I
Think Therefore, I Slam.

846
00:46:01,240 --> 00:46:05,120
So I've shamelessly ripped this
off Diary of a CEO, so I call it

847
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:09,160
Diary of a POET.
Paris, you get to have some

848
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,240
input into the interviewing
process.

849
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:15,640
What would you like to ask the
next guest that I interview,

850
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:18,760
sight unseen?
I think an interesting question

851
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,720
because in poetry we read what
we read on the page.

852
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:27,280
I'd like to know what you've
purposely left out of your

853
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:31,680
poetry, and what does that
omission seek to protect?

854
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:38,800
That is high journalism there.
I think that's a really great

855
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:40,760
one.
I look forward to presenting

856
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,280
that to my next guest.
They're going to get a bit

857
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:44,720
blindsided by that, I think,
but.

858
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:47,400
They're going to hate me for it.
That's all right.

859
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:51,000
I was about to say, oh, I always
protect the identity of my

860
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:52,920
question askers, but I don't.
I'm straight up.

861
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:56,280
I'm like, hey, Paris Rosebud
wants to know your deepest,

862
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:58,600
darkest secrets.
That's that's awesome.

863
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:00,920
Paris.
If people want to find out more

864
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:05,360
about you, follow your
international escapades and the

865
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,880
work that you're doing in both
poetry and soon to be fiction.

866
00:47:09,240 --> 00:47:11,600
Where should they head to?
Where's the the best place to

867
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:15,760
get all things Paris Rosemont?
I'm most active on Instagram so

868
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:20,520
my handle is at Miss Paris Rose
and I've also got a website

869
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:23,640
parisrosemont.com.
And we're going to have links

870
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:25,520
for all of that in the episode
description.

871
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:29,800
Paris, we would love to hear one
more piece from you to bring the

872
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:35,280
house down.
OK, this last piece is well, I

873
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,960
haven't actually publicly
announced my next poetry

874
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,040
collection yet.
It's complete and it's you're

875
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:48,480
out looking for a publisher, so
I will I will formally share the

876
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,160
title with you.
It's called A Brief Flirtation

877
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,480
with Blue.
Not purple.

878
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:55,960
No, no.
Gotcha.

879
00:47:56,320 --> 00:48:00,000
This one's blue, but again, the
the title's layered as well.

880
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:05,240
You take blue how you like, but
this poem in in this collection

881
00:48:05,240 --> 00:48:08,560
is a villanelle.
It's called Lovesick Lament.

882
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,720
I'm slipping, losing track of
things you said.

883
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,680
I've never been a fan of long
goodbyes.

884
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:19,680
Sometimes I think it's better
that you're dead.

885
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:24,160
Oh, take me back.
Entwined with you in bed to

886
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,000
tenderness of touch, ecstatic
size.

887
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:30,640
I'm slipping, losing track of
things you said.

888
00:48:31,720 --> 00:48:34,400
A mad girl chasing ghosts within
her head.

889
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,520
I cannot let you go, Not till I
die.

890
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:40,480
Sometimes I think it's better
that you're dead.

891
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:45,880
One day I tried to join you.
How I speed toward untimely

892
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,160
darkness.
I'll devised.

893
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:52,600
I'm slipping, losing track of
things you said because my

894
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:55,160
mind's all muddled, dulled on
meds.

895
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,400
I'm glad you cannot see me in
disguise.

896
00:48:59,240 --> 00:49:01,400
Sometimes I think it's better
that you're dead.

897
00:49:02,720 --> 00:49:05,400
I keep you safely stowed within
my head.

898
00:49:06,240 --> 00:49:07,760
My.
Darling, though, you're dimming.

899
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:11,440
Still I try.
But I'm slipping, losing track

900
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:15,360
of things you said.
Sometimes I think it's better

901
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:19,960
that you're dead.
Wow, Paris Rosemont, This

902
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:23,040
conversation has been an
embarrassment of riches.

903
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:27,480
I reckon it's been the perfect
way to kick off season 3, where

904
00:49:27,720 --> 00:49:31,400
once again I've searched the
globe for the best slam poetry

905
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:33,880
and spoken word artist to bring
them to our audience.

906
00:49:34,240 --> 00:49:35,840
It's everything I hoped it would
be.

907
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,640
Thank you so much for thinking
with us and slaying with us

908
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:41,120
today.
Thank you, It's been a pleasure.

909
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:48,760
Wait, you Big Sands, what's that
all about?