Josh Cake - Making Art Is No Joke

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Slam poetry doesn't care if.
It's perfect.

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It's.
The biggest poem I've got inside

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of You.
Love me.

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Love a haunted house.
Blood black Nothingness began to

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spin this day.
I hate pork chops.

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I am the master.
I am the Captain, the most

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radical podcast since that one
Chris Pine made in Don't Worry

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Darling.
Welcome to I Think Therefore I

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Slam, bringing you the best
spoken word and slam poetry

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artist from Australia and
beyond.

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My name is Andrew.
My guest today is a Melbourne

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born artist, currently in
between residing in Paris and

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Edinburgh, renowned for his
multifaceted talents in comedy,

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music and poetry.
His official website introduces

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him humorously as someone
engaged in comedy, music,

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poetry, death.
Eventually, in 2023, my guest

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released a poetry album titled
Words to Regret When I'm Better

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at Editing, which showcases his
prowess as a poet.

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Notably, he achieved the
distinction of being the top

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ranked poet in the National
Poetry Slam in Australia.

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He's here for the Melbourne
International Comedy Festival.

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He is Melbourne poetry's
favorite expat.

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Josh Keg, welcome on.
Hello Andrew, thank you for

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having me.
That was a very warm

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introduction.
Renowned is a big cold.

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They're just things that I do.
Renowned for is huge.

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Yeah, I I I think renowned to me
means your reputation and your

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name precedes you, you know,
and, and yeah, I've had tabs on

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you, my friend.
Oh, no.

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Ever since we shared the stage
in 2019, I thought, this is

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someone who knows what they're
doing.

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Oh yeah, And people who seem
like they know what they're

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doing.
Yeah, I've seen you perform fun.

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I think that's all I want.
Just entertain each other.

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Good, good.
That's all I'm looking.

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For good.
It's sounding quite circle jerky

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at the moment, but we we mean it
with love, don't we?

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Yeah.
Yeah, we do.

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This is I've, I don't know if
I've ever been on a podcast

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before where somebody played the
music live into my they you just

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normally start recording and
they put that in later in, you

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know, in audition or like
Audacity if they're poor, but

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mixing in his life.
That was, I just want everyone

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to know I heard that at the same
time.

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And as you, that was done
organically the old fashioned

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way.
Yeah, we got like a lot of

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unused little sound effect pads
here, so we do it properly here.

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So thank you for the praise.
Thank you for that, it was fun.

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Now you're in town for Melbourne
International Not Poetry

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Festival, the Melbourne
International Comedy Festival.

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Rather that's, that is correct,
all comedy.

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Nope.
Actually, no.

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There's quite a lot of poems at
the Comedy Festival.

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Yeah, but yes, the Comedy
Festival.

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Yes, Now I believe that you
you're not showcasing a full

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show this year.
You have in the past.

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Yes.
You're more of a a featured

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guest at a few shows.
Yes, I'm doing things with my

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friends.
I spent a lot of time on stage

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by myself last year and I have a
lot of fun playing music for my

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friends and supporting roles for
them.

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So I'm playing piano in one
improv show and I'm acting in a

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friend's show and just having a
nice time.

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You know you'll do spots of solo
stuff, but it's really nice to

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be on stage with my buddies
that's.

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Nice, you've come from Adelaide,
The Fringe Festival.

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Yes, same the same thing in
Adelaide.

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I did a bit of solo poetry stuff
there, but the rest was, you

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know, playing music for a comedy
show or acting in my friends com

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show or just taking a Com show,
just supporting.

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It's a lot of fun.
Oh good, mate.

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It's, it's good to, you know,
have you back in your own

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backyard kind of giving back to
the, the that scene.

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It's it's it's good.
Yeah, giving back, I think also

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taken I was very I've seen a lot
of shows and had a lot of fun.

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I'm I'm taking a lot.
Good, good, good.

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Soak it up, soak it up.
Oh.

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Yeah, yeah, Actually, that's an
interesting.

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When are you giving and when you
take?

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Because as an audience member,
I, I often feel like I'm taking,

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I'm enjoying, I'm receiving it.
But you know, I have a very loud

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laugh.
Yeah.

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So people say, oh, you're
giving.

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Yeah, that's interesting.
I guess some people ask their

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audience to give a lot.
Have you ever been to burlesque?

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Oh, a little bit.
Yeah, yeah.

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And they're like, you've got a
whoop.

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Just every single step you've it
asks a lot of the.

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I think magic asks so much of
the audience.

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Take a card, show it to
everyone.

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Not to me.
I was like, the audience members

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working.
You're just going to take that

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card, move it around and bring
it back.

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I I hate magic and magicians,
the art form and the magic.

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Are you kidding?
OK.

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Magic is just gaslighting your
audience.

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It's so boring.
There's no narrative, there's no

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story, there's no purposes.
Just lying to them.

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You know, you pick a card and
you say you pick the four of

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hearts, all the and then you put
it back.

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All the magician does is just
move it around and bring it back

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to you.
That's so boring.

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Every time I know this is going
to move the card and bring it

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back.
All.

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You know the machines they use
where they chop themselves in

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half or do an illusion.
Yes, they've just gone to a

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magic shop and they've bought a
device that we haven't seen the

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internals of.
And then they that would be like

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if I'd never seen a toaster and
you went and bought a toaster

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and you put bread in in a Kmart
toaster.

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And I was like, wow, it's magic.
No, you're just taking advantage

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of the fact that I haven't seen
a toaster.

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So it's either lying or just
moving stuff around.

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And and also they're creepy.
I've never met a non creepy

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magician.
I was like, I'm saying the art

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form and the people I will make
up.

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I will go on record.
I hate all magic and all

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magicians.
I don't because like, even if

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you were to practice sleight of
hand, I, you know, I've got a

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friend called Karen.
She practiced sleight of hand

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for years on the cello, and now
she gives a beautiful gift to

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the world with her music.
Rather than just moving a card

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round and giving it back to me.
Also, they pretend they're doing

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something new.
All they're doing is moving a

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card round.
Like I'm going to do something.

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A magician.
You've never seen a magician do

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this before?
And I'm like, what?

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Ask for consent?
I hate magic.

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Wow, that is That is a hot take.
We're going to get some clack

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back from some magicians, maybe
some illusionist, Michael.

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Fight me, magician.
I want to fight a magician.

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Bring it.
Man to be taken.

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Seriously.
Yeah, bring it on midnight by

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the era.
Let's do this.

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It's going down.
Yeah.

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And I guess some, I guess there
is, you know, some comedians ask

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a lot of their audiences,
particularly if you're in the

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front row, and you might cop a
bit of Flack or some heckling or

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that you might be caught up on
stage or whatever.

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Your front row.
And Auntie Donna must be wild.

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I think it it's involved, but at
least they're kind.

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I think there's some comedians
to just bully their audiences.

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Yeah.
So what do you do for a living

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loser?
It's like that's that's not

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good.
Or just picking on people when

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I've seen a lot of comedians who
I think they haven't really

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thought through and safely
devise a crowd work because if

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you're asking questions, you've
got to have a purpose of, oh,

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I'm leading into this next step.
And they were really hoping

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people would answer in one way.
And then somebody answers a

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different way because they're a
different person.

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And the comedian goes, oh, you
answered that wrong.

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That's it's so.
Yeah, I've seen a lot of

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irresponsible crowd work.
Oh, comedians are not off the

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hook.
I hate all magicians without

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exception.
But some comedians get things

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wrong, too.
Yeah.

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I don't believe I I think if
you've paid money for

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entertainment, you shouldn't be
bullied.

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That's my take.
Yeah, I, I don't mind it.

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This reminds me of going to the
pop up restaurant Karen's in

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Carlton when it was a thing.
And look, it was a, it was a

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cool novel experience.
So this is the one where you go

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in and all the servers are
horrible and they abuse you and

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whatever.
Now I went there with some

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friends before a movie and it
was OK, but it was it was

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mediocre.
I was in, the food was mediocre.

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I ordered Buffalo wings because
I love Buffalo wings.

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Hadn't had them in age.
So like, I'm getting some

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Buffalo wings.
Let's go.

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They brought out wings.
No Buffalo sauce.

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Now I'm sitting there, Josh, and
I'm going, is this like, is this

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a joke or did they actually
forget my order?

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I will never know.
And that kind of pissed me off

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because I'm like, well, how far
can you take this?

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Yeah, I guess.
Yeah.

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With the carrying, there's
almost what has the you.

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I would want really clear
guidelines for what is the

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consumer signed up for.
Is it?

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Oh, we're gonna as a little
joke, we don't bring the sauce.

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Then you ask about it and we go
me, me, me.

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Yeah, you ask me.
We bring it in because, yeah, I

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think it'd be interesting to
bring the Australian, what's it

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the A triple C?
The consumer protection thing is

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like, where is the like?
Because I think if you paid for

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Buffalo sauce with wing, sorry,
Buffalo wings with sauce, you

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should get that.
Yes.

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I agree.
So did you ask?

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I did and all I got was a roll
of the eyes.

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And, you know, it was, it was
amusing.

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I was like, oh, this is part of
the joke.

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But as I sat there eating my,
you know, not as flavorful as I

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could have been wings, I just
thought, and you're right with

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guidelines, there were no
guidelines.

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Like, you know, we knew the
reputation, but there were no

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guidelines provided.
And if I ran that joint because

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I think play is great.
Play doesn't always have to be

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structured, but I think it
helps, especially in a

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commercial environment.
Yes, and if you know all right,

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I will get my stuff eventually.
Or or if everyone knows, hey,

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ordering something with sauce
means you don't get the sauce,

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it's fine as long as the person
knows what they're paying for.

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Give my order to like the wrong
person on the table.

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That's fine.
OK, now we're good.

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Now we're in enjoying it.
But yeah, I haven't been back

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since then.
So yeah.

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Wow, Everyone's copying a spray.
We've got magicians, comedians,

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Karens.
We've got one safe.

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And no one is safe from the
talents of Josh Cake.

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We're going to.
You're very safe.

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I use those responsibly.
Hey, if you don't, if you don't

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want these, you can just stop
listening to me.

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That's so easy.
Fair enough.

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Everyone is very safe from
whatever talent I have.

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Fair enough, fair enough.
Yes, like I said, it's it's an

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opt in process, but we're going
to hear some of your finest

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poetry work today, so you've got
piece.

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Number one, some of my finest.
I was just going to do some

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poems well.
Your poems are so fine.

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They're so fine they blow my
mind.

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Wow.
Thank you.

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I'll just do one.
OK, This is called Lonely

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Settler at the End of the World
Remembers Snacks.

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What the fuck is a post workout
smoothie and why is that your

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sole definition of your
smoothie?

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And why is that a recipe
category in your bookshop?

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Anything that meets the
description can be a post

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00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,560
workout smoothie or a non
workout smoothie, or indeed a

229
00:09:49,560 --> 00:09:52,520
smoothie divorced from any
aerobic correlation.

230
00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:55,520
Unless you have positioned your
blender at the end of an

231
00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:57,080
obstacle course, this is
meaningless.

232
00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,000
When you post about your post
workout smoothie, the post

233
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,320
workout is not an ingredient, it
is a brag.

234
00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,320
I respect an honest brag but it
was slimy to hide it.

235
00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:08,200
It was easy to work out your
post.

236
00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:14,640
I don't mind when you say pre
workout smoothie as this implies

237
00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,440
A stimulant.
Or at least hope.

238
00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,600
My mother asks why I will not
give up anything for Lent.

239
00:10:22,680 --> 00:10:26,040
I regurgitate climate science,
bring up all the foods that will

240
00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,440
vanish.
Chocolate, coffee, corn,

241
00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,440
potatoes.
Each ingredient leaves my lips

242
00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,640
coated in the bile of
unforgiveness.

243
00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,880
I feast now.
My Lent will come later.

244
00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:43,000
It's rising every year, the gap
between the chocolate bar and

245
00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:47,560
the size that it used to be, the
ratio of the pointless dry husk

246
00:10:47,560 --> 00:10:51,600
of a biscuit to the worthwhile
creamy centre, the discrepancy

247
00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,320
between my memory of the heft of
crisps in a bag and the

248
00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,000
smattering now provided.
It is called shrink flation.

249
00:10:58,680 --> 00:11:01,960
The profits surge hand in hand
with our loss of dignity until

250
00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,120
all foods are reduced to a mere
granule of a simulacrum of a

251
00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,760
once great institution.
Too much emptiness to imagine

252
00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:13,440
what we could have become.
Remember, we will sigh as we

253
00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,880
loyally chew our trademarked
crumbs.

254
00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:21,640
Now is the good time.
A scarf eats a crap.

255
00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,680
A mullet.
It's a Chico roll.

256
00:11:25,560 --> 00:11:28,040
A two piece suit.
It's a three piece sushi tray.

257
00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,880
A puffer jacket eats a butter
chicken extra mild.

258
00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:36,760
A sharp fade eats a lamb kebab.
A blue fringe eats a falafel

259
00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,880
kebab.
A cardigan drinks a herbal tea.

260
00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,000
A bride to be sash drinks an
espresso martini.

261
00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,200
A crop top drinks a post workout
smoothie.

262
00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,560
A cardboard blanket accepts.
Whatever falls now is abundance.

263
00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:56,120
Someday.
When my Lent arrives, I keep

264
00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,320
posting the location of each
empty house.

265
00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,360
I crash into the procession of
abandoned news feeds.

266
00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:07,120
I have stopped reheating the
canned soup, beans, beef, but I

267
00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,480
have resumed pouring the wine
into a cup.

268
00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:15,160
In the morning I will plant
crops in the park and wish for

269
00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:20,720
indigenous knowledge.
Well, thank you.

270
00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:23,360
No one, no one is safe.
Those posting.

271
00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,360
Yeah, your selfies with your
post work smoothie.

272
00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,240
And I love that.
A piece that started off as kind

273
00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,640
of a jokey joke.
And this is what this is what I

274
00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:32,800
appreciate about a lot of your
work, Josh.

275
00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:35,680
You start off in one place and
you you end up with something

276
00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:38,360
with with unique depth and
perspective.

277
00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:39,560
Yeah.
I just think that's wonderful.

278
00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:43,000
Thank you very much.
Let's let's jump in the

279
00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,160
DeLorean, shall we?
Where are we going and.

280
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,520
We are we going?
Oh, yeah, Duck.

281
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:50,320
That's a terrible.
That's a terrible, Marty.

282
00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,560
No, no, do it.
I have a, I have a second go.

283
00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:54,160
I feel like you've got a better
one in you.

284
00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,040
Oh.
Gee, duck karate chops all the

285
00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:58,800
time.
That's all I do.

286
00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:00,400
That was better than the first.
Yeah.

287
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:02,280
I'm glad we took a moment.
Thank you.

288
00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,680
I didn't want, I didn't want
people to go away thinking that

289
00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:06,920
was your best attempt at it the
first time.

290
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:08,840
Do you go what?
Yes, thank you.

291
00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,760
You bailed me out there.
Let's get into the DeLorean and

292
00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:14,880
let's go 88 mph.
Did I get that right?

293
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:16,480
Right.
I don't know.

294
00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:18,640
I should have said it with more
confidence and then just going

295
00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:20,120
on.
I I believe it.

296
00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:22,520
I've never seen this move.
Cool, cool.

297
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,480
What is the?
What's your origin story of, you

298
00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,200
know, starting to create your
works and sharing them on on

299
00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:34,040
stage So well polished.
I mean, the origin story is not

300
00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,880
sharing them well polished.
Yeah, I think the origin story

301
00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:38,640
is sharing garbage for a long
time.

302
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,400
And eventually it, you know, if
you have you seen that thing

303
00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:45,160
where if you just get a jagged
rock and you just somebody kicks

304
00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,680
it along the street for days and
days and it eventually becomes a

305
00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:49,840
beautiful sphere.
Diamond, hopefully.

306
00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:51,480
Yeah, Yeah.
I think that's what happened.

307
00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,520
So it wasn't polished at 1st and
then it became that way,

308
00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:56,640
hopefully.
Oh, it's still polishing, still

309
00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:57,680
pretty jagged.
I don't know.

310
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,280
What kind of places were you
sharing your jagged rocks in?

311
00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:03,160
Oh, they were fresh.
Oh, yeah.

312
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,760
I mean, when I was a little kid,
I just wrote, read some poems,

313
00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:08,520
wrote some poems, you know,
submitted them for the, you

314
00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,680
know, those Bradley, Trevor
Grieves, Taronga Foundation

315
00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:14,160
poems by young Australians.
Was he kids in Prince?

316
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:14,680
Yeah.
Yeah.

317
00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,560
And then I think I got in there
when I was 10 and 12.

318
00:14:17,560 --> 00:14:20,360
And then when I was 13, I
decided I hated everything I'd

319
00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,400
ever written.
And I didn't write poems.

320
00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,560
I kept writing music and like in
my teenage years I got into

321
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,560
comedy, but I didn't write poems
until I was 18, teen 19.

322
00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:31,920
So that's good because I think
everyone who writes poems in

323
00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,400
their teens, there's a lot of
angsty, embarrassing teenage.

324
00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,200
I just skipped over that due to
insecurities.

325
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,960
So that was great.
I was more focused on music.

326
00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,760
I was doing classical music and
then I got into musical theatre

327
00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,160
at uni and making musicals and
then stand up comedy and musical

328
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,480
comedy.
And then when I was 19, I went

329
00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:53,400
to Paris and they've got these
things that are essentially like

330
00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,240
open mics, like salons and
stuff.

331
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,400
There was one on a Monday night
in the basement of for Chernois.

332
00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,360
And it was, you could share
anything if it had a word in it.

333
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,000
So you'd get a lot of poems.
He had people doing a song, a

334
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,000
little excerpt from a play.
You get people doing stand up,

335
00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:10,960
just anything with a word in it
because that's good.

336
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,520
It keeps the mimes out.
There's too many of them in

337
00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,080
France.
You do need to have, I don't

338
00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,520
know, you know in Australia
there's a lot of, you'll see a

339
00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:24,640
lot of sort of 20 year old guys
just attempting the same crappy

340
00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,040
stand up routine.
Sure.

341
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,200
Yeah, imagine that.
But mimes, right, Just like the

342
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:31,760
same guys do and I'm trapped in
a box.

343
00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,160
But the object work isn't there,
so they're just waving their

344
00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,720
hands around and they're really
serious and they won't say a

345
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,360
word, which I don't like.
I I like it when you learn the

346
00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:41,680
words.
It's all in the fingertips.

347
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:43,600
I assume you need to.
You need to make me believe that

348
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,680
you're pressing against glass.
Yeah, and you need to practice

349
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:47,880
and you need to not be doing the
same thing as everyone else.

350
00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,400
Anyway, no mimes there.
Beautiful experience.

351
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:52,840
And I went there, you know, with
some songs.

352
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,200
I had some theater friends and
some jokes and stuff.

353
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:59,800
And I heard some poems and it
was cool because they would get

354
00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:02,880
stuck in your head or you'd get,
I think it was the best insight

355
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,840
I'd had into somebody with a
completely different life.

356
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,440
The other thing of when you you,
you go looking for perspectives

357
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,840
that are different from yours.
And you can do that in any art

358
00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,560
form, books, films, whatever.
You can do it, just do

359
00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,600
conversations with people, but
you know, the experience of

360
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,280
somebody with a completely
different identity, completely

361
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,480
different story, actually
understanding what that felt

362
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:25,720
like.
I found poetry did that better

363
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,320
than anything else.
And I'd, you know, go there and

364
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,920
just like, listen to someone
explain what it was like to be

365
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,480
trans and then just have that
line stuck in my head all week

366
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:35,680
to the point where it's
irritating, where you're trying

367
00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:37,760
to do something else and that's
stuck in your head.

368
00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:41,080
And it's like, wow, this poetry
stuff is very annoying too.

369
00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:43,040
Much empathy.
I'm, I'm going to do it.

370
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:44,920
So that, that was where I
started.

371
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,400
I got into poems again as an
adult in, in Paris at Monday

372
00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:50,360
nights at Au Chenois.
And, you know, it's sort of a

373
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,840
mixture of English and French.
You just try stuff out.

374
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:54,280
And then I came back to
Australia.

375
00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:55,440
I didn't do much for a few
years.

376
00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,080
Then, you know, Amy Bedossi in
the cabaret.

377
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:02,560
So she was very active in those
days and she was, this would

378
00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:08,000
have been for 2017.
And she hired me as a musician

379
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:09,960
'cause you need something to
play guitar and piano behind her

380
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,400
songs and poems and stuff.
And I went around regional gigs

381
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:14,880
with her.
And then she had a thing at the

382
00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,400
Toff in town and she invited me
and she had a bunch of poets as

383
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,240
warmer backs.
And I thought, oh, this is fun.

384
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,599
And then she said come to the
Motley Bear House, there's this

385
00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:22,680
thing called the P Word
Sessions.

386
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:24,119
And I turned up and I brought a
poem.

387
00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:26,640
And that was 2019 I think the
first time I did poetry in

388
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,840
Australia.
And then from then it was just

389
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,160
non-stop every week, like
writing every day, going to

390
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:34,400
every gig I possibly could.
And I think, yeah, that's how I

391
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,280
got into poetry.
So Amy, Amy had a pivotal role

392
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,760
and it was just accidentally
stumbling into poets.

393
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,560
Yeah, through, through the way
of, of music and more of a like

394
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:45,800
a variety show kind of aspect.
Yeah.

395
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,160
How did you get into it?
How did I get into it has?

396
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:50,640
This already been covered on the
podcast Am I Boring on?

397
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:52,560
The list.
I'm so self indulgent that I'm

398
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,080
happy to go through it.
Yes, fine, I want to hear.

399
00:17:55,160 --> 00:18:01,520
Yeah, I, I've always written.
I was, I had delusions of

400
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,960
grandeur at 13 where I was like,
I'm going to write a dystopian

401
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:10,000
sci-fi novel and I thought
telling everyone about it before

402
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,000
I even did anything was a good
idea, I suppose.

403
00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:18,320
But no, I've always, I've always
wanted to communicate and be

404
00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,400
communicated to.
I wanna be a satellite dish.

405
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,440
I don't wanna be a person.
I wanna be a person.

406
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:24,960
Satellite dish.
That's cool.

407
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:30,120
And you mentioned that you
didn't write poetry in your

408
00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:31,160
teens.
I did.

409
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,200
And it was like free verse.
And it was.

410
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:38,040
Yeah.
It is buried in a in an archive

411
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,960
in a hard drive somewhere where
it where it probably belongs,

412
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,080
but was actually really helpful.
It was almost like a a journal

413
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:46,840
substitute, if you like.
Yeah.

414
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,760
It wasn't something that I was
sharing with a lot of people,

415
00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:52,800
only with.
Yeah, maybe a very, very small

416
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,080
circle of people.
And then it was just the power

417
00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,120
of invitation.
You know, 10 years after I went

418
00:18:58,120 --> 00:19:01,080
through that stage, someone in
my life, Jessie Croissant, who's

419
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,160
who's been on the podcast,
invited me to an open mic night

420
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,720
in Melbourne SE And most people
there do spoken word.

421
00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,480
And I just kinda fell in love
with it, got into Melbourne

422
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,840
spoken word prize via Wild Card.
And that's when I saw you and

423
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,000
the whole range of artists
around Melbourne.

424
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:19,960
I was like, what am I doing
here?

425
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,600
But it's it's been cool finding
my own, my own flavour and my

426
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,880
own place and just enjoying
what's happening here, yeah.

427
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,320
Yeah, nice.
Yeah, so your work, Josh, you

428
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,120
really are the triple threat.
You've got poetry, you've got

429
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:36,440
music, you've got comedy.
I'm wondering how you see these

430
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,480
different mediums kind of
interacting in your creative

431
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,600
process, As in, you know what,
what's the similarities?

432
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,560
What's the distinctions?
How do you decide whether this

433
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,800
piece is going to be a song, a
poem, a bit?

434
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:51,360
Oh yeah, that's that's a good
question.

435
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,760
I mean, usually triple threat
means something more useful,

436
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:55,920
like singer actor does.
So normally it does.

437
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:57,480
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we've Co opted
it.

438
00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,080
Yeah, just like yeah, any three
skills is a triple threat.

439
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:05,320
Wow, reading, writing, wow.
I you know, I can fry, bake and

440
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,000
blanch.
Yes, well, that's that's just

441
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,000
one.
It's it's interesting me how we

442
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,480
break down.
Skill sets, you know, like if we

443
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,520
broke down poetry into more
skill sets, we'd go, this

444
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:19,680
person's a page poet, this
person's a stage poet, this

445
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,400
person understands ekphrastic
work or something.

446
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,360
Or if we lived in a world where
everyone did poetry, music and

447
00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:27,360
comedy, we'd have one word for
it and be one job.

448
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:29,120
I think about that sometimes.
I don't know.

449
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,600
Or like the way we use triple
threats saying the musical

450
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:34,880
theatre world, it means they do
those three things.

451
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,400
But you could drill down and say
a singer's already doing 7

452
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:39,000
things.
I don't know.

453
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:40,240
That's something I thought about
for years.

454
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,160
You like this, this could just
be a tweet.

455
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,720
This could be a web comic, this
could be a joke.

456
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,360
Sometimes you can put the, you
can explore the same idea in

457
00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:50,320
different things.
Like you can get a piece of

458
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,720
information.
Go here's how that's a song,

459
00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:55,480
here's how that's a poem, here's
how that stand up.

460
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,480
And I have, I've definitely done
that.

461
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:02,280
I think I just look at it and
go, where do I want to take this

462
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:03,800
idea?
Or it happens pretty

463
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:05,120
organically.
I'll just start writing

464
00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:06,480
something and go, oh, yeah,
that's jokes.

465
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,840
Oh, that's a poem.
I used to overthink it a lot and

466
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:12,480
wonder where best to place
things.

467
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,480
And then I've just figured out
ideas kind of don't stop coming

468
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:16,920
because the world keeps
happening.

469
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,000
And if you run out of ideas, you
can just unknown, just open any

470
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,480
newspaper or any book or walk
down the street and say, who's

471
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,520
willing to chat to you or go to
an art gallery.

472
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,120
And then you'll figure out where
to put them.

473
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,080
So I think, yeah, I used to
really worry about where is the

474
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,400
best place for this idea until I
realized you can talk about the

475
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:33,800
same things in more than one
place.

476
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,640
You know, I've got like, plenty
of actually.

477
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:38,000
I don't think I've written any
songs.

478
00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:41,480
No, I have like, so songs about
climate change or poetry about

479
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,800
climate change or stand up about
climate change.

480
00:21:44,120 --> 00:21:45,840
And it gives you different
angles.

481
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,480
There's, there's thing in comedy
where you can just say really

482
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:54,560
bleak facts and people laugh.
And yeah, I think it finds its

483
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,680
place as you're writing.
And sometimes you might change

484
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,120
tag halfway through and go, oh,
this idea doesn't belong here.

485
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,760
And you, I have an enormous bag
of unused ideas.

486
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,960
I think for I did do.
I've done account basically at

487
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,480
the end of every three months.
And for about every 20 pages I

488
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,400
write, one page makes it out to
the.

489
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,720
And that doesn't matter whether
it's poetry or comedy.

490
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,160
I think the rest just goes, you
know, and it's like, I was like,

491
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,440
this is fairly good.
I didn't care about it though.

492
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:23,560
Yeah, you're looking for the
cream.

493
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,320
That and like, I'm not going to
remember it.

494
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:27,320
That's I think I filter with
memorization.

495
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,280
If I can't remember it, how can
I expect an audience to find

496
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,320
this memorable if I can't even
remember this?

497
00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:35,920
So I filter out by that and I
just let things traipse into

498
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,800
whatever category they are.
And I think the lines are pretty

499
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,000
blurry sometimes.
I mean, music is very

500
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,160
deliberate.
You got to get a like a guitar

501
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:44,680
out or something or something
out.

502
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,400
But poetry and comedy, sometimes
I reckon you could say stuff and

503
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,880
defy people to, especially when
people are doing very free

504
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,040
verse.
I'm like, OK, you, you pick the

505
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:54,160
category.
I don't care.

506
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,160
Yeah.
And those 3 forms, you know,

507
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,200
comedy, music, poetry, they're
all disarming in like different

508
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,560
ways, I think.
Like threats.

509
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,480
Sure, sure.
And, and there's an element of

510
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,720
timing to all of them as well.
You know, there's almost a

511
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,040
musicality to the way everyone
talks and communicates.

512
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,400
And what I find amazing that
what you do is that I'm sure

513
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,280
there's artists out there that
when they're getting ideas, they

514
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,080
might get the seed for, for a
song, let's say.

515
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,400
But because they don't have the
training and the background and

516
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,760
the access to that that they do,
those ideas may either die on

517
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:29,320
the vine or they end up as
poems.

518
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,360
Whereas you have, you know,
seemingly umpteenth options of

519
00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:33,920
what you could do to explore
something.

520
00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:36,480
I think that's, yeah.
I mean, I was lucky enough to

521
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:40,440
get music lessons as a kid and,
you know, it's lucky to grow up

522
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,000
in Melbourne.
You know, you can't not be

523
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,360
exposed to comedy growing up in
Melbourne.

524
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,520
And you know, there's, I think
we do take it for granted in

525
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,160
this rather way.
We are very aware of this one

526
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,040
particular theatrical art form
in Australia because of the

527
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,240
Comedy Festival and because of
our culture of comedy.

528
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,880
And a lot of countries are way
less aware of it.

529
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,040
So yeah, I had a bit of good
luck privilege.

530
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,400
Same for poetry, you know, the
good fortune of poets finding

531
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,160
me.
I think, yeah, I'd feel bad for

532
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:08,960
somebody who just lived in a
place where they never got

533
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:10,280
exposed to anything.
So they don't.

534
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,280
They've got great ideas and they
don't know where to put them.

535
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,480
And maybe they could be, you
know, the world's most wonderful

536
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,280
poet or comedian or painter, or
that's a Terry Pratchett quote.

537
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,000
They're like tragedies.
All the, all the people who

538
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,240
never saw a flute, so they were
mediocre carpenters.

539
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,240
And the people who never saw a
saw and a workshop.

540
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,080
So they were mediocre flute
players.

541
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:30,400
Missed your calling.
Yeah, yeah.

542
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,200
People who never, you know, you
think about somebody who would

543
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,760
have been an amazing JavaScript
coder, but they lived in the

544
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:41,360
1400s and they're like, oh,
Leonardo's fucking killing it on

545
00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:43,640
the Abacus.
That's not not useful.

546
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,600
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's a good point.

547
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,480
So yeah, I think I've been lucky
enough to find things that

548
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,120
worked for me.
I I have tried a lot of stuff

549
00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:53,200
and found the ones that are
comfortable for me.

550
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,600
I wonder if there's something
else that I'd enjoy.

551
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,120
Probably I'll, I'll get into
something else later.

552
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,000
Yeah, I'm, I'm clinically
distractible, so I will get into

553
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:03,880
something.
But yeah, it's, it's been, I

554
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:05,480
think it's been lucky to be
exposed to that.

555
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:07,960
And you know, one of the things
I really care about is

556
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,320
especially getting kids exposed
to so many different art forms

557
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,680
and, and sports and arts and
ways to move your body and

558
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,600
express yourself with your
words, with your body and

559
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,520
everything.
And hopefully they find the one

560
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,000
that's right for them, or the OR
the three or whatever.

561
00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:23,360
That's good.
And zooming in on comedy, you

562
00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:27,040
know, comedy is so often a way
to breakdown walls and kind of

563
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,360
tackle serious topics in in
what's a lighter, more

564
00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:33,000
digestible way?
How do you balance humour with,

565
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,200
I guess, deeper themes in your
work?

566
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:36,640
Or do you just go kind of
cavalier?

567
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,840
I don't think there's any
conflict, which I yeah, I mean,

568
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,280
I do think like one of the
limitations of comedy is that

569
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,640
everything leading towards being
funny.

570
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,280
Poetry is freer because you can
just do any human emotion.

571
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,360
This can lead to laughing, this
can lead to crying.

572
00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:54,680
This can lead to joy or like
fighting or reconciliation or

573
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,800
lust or hope or despair or just
anything.

574
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,040
And you're not constrained with
it.

575
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,720
But I think quite naturally some
things are going to be if you're

576
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,080
talking about everything, like
because some parts of life are

577
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:06,160
funny.
So if you're talking about

578
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:07,920
everything, some things are
going to be funny.

579
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,040
And I don't think there's any
situation where there's no

580
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,880
humor.
And you know, even if you if you

581
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,280
read like writings from like
even people who've been in

582
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,000
concentration camps writing
about the jokes they did with

583
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,440
their friends, there's no I like
there are some situations where

584
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,600
you might go, you know what, I'm
going to leave it to the person

585
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,720
who was in this situation to
make the joke.

586
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,200
I don't think it's for me to
make necessarily, but that I

587
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,440
don't think that you'll find a
situation in human life where

588
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,000
the people going through it
aren't finding something to

589
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,520
laugh at sort of built into how
we navigate today and how we

590
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,720
survive.
So in that sense, there's no

591
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,000
conflict between handling a deep
issue with human.

592
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,200
I'm like, I'm not.
There's so many examples of

593
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:45,840
this.
Yeah.

594
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,480
You don't need to separate humor
from life.

595
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,320
It's it's in all aspects.
I've never been to a funeral

596
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,120
where somebody didn't mention
something and everyone giggled.

597
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,480
Yeah, there's like on people's
deathbed, there's little

598
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,560
giggles.
In the most horrific situations

599
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,560
I've seen and heard about,
There's, there's something to

600
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,080
laugh at if, if you find it and
if you do it, you know, kindly

601
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,280
and sensitively, or even if you
don't, you will still find

602
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,400
something to laugh at.
So I, there's no conflict there

603
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,440
for me.
I, I don't have a line of this

604
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,880
thing can never be joked about.
It's about how you do it and

605
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,600
like down to the very, very
worst things.

606
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,800
And when you find, you know,
stand up by Holocaust survivors,

607
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,600
I think that proves my point.
Yeah, it's it's a nice to the

608
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:29,640
human experience, maybe.
Yeah.

609
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,120
Yeah.
So good, we come out as as

610
00:27:32,120 --> 00:27:34,960
crying babies, but like we're
laughing pretty quickly.

611
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,240
You know, if we're lucky, we
carry that throughout life.

612
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,520
I want to ask in your work
widely, do you feel like any

613
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:46,120
pressure to make your work more
marketable, so to speak or or do

614
00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:49,240
you kind of embrace more of like
a niche independence?

615
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,640
I mean, you know, you've got to
pay the rent.

616
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:53,720
Yes.
But I think I've been lucky

617
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,880
enough that the stuff that I
want to make some people want to

618
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:57,400
see.
I always like to come back to

619
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,120
the analogy of selling food for
artists.

620
00:28:00,120 --> 00:28:01,600
And this works for all kinds of
contexts.

621
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,720
So if it comes down to, say,
workers rights and paying people

622
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,280
for things, I go, you wouldn't
go to the bakery and say, hey,

623
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,280
we're doing the big, big, big
event.

624
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,000
There's a lot of exposure.
Give us some bread.

625
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,080
You'd be like, no, let's, you
know, let's work out something.

626
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,720
Let's pay for this.
And at the same time, if you're

627
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,640
running the bakery, you got to
make bread that people want to

628
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,480
eat.
And there are, you know, when

629
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,520
people go, you got to support
the arts.

630
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,880
And I'm like, I get it.
But also, do you have all of

631
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,600
them?
Because if my cool idea as a

632
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,440
Baker is that I take, I make
dough and then I put it in the

633
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,760
oven for 20 seconds and bring it
out and it's really wobbly and

634
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:42,040
raw and then nobody wants to buy
tickets to that, That's that's

635
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,280
on me.
I can't get mad at the public

636
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:48,480
for bringing them my avant-garde
idea that was frankly inedible

637
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,720
and then say, oh, you should
have supported the arts.

638
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,920
Why didn't you support the arts?
Look at my half baked, wobbling

639
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,720
pile of dough.
Don't you want my half baked

640
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:57,520
dough?
You're bad people for not

641
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,600
wanting my terrible, unpalatable
product.

642
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:02,360
So I think there is a line
there.

643
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,640
You have to make something.
You have to make bread that

644
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,160
people want to eat.
Having said that, the best

645
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,280
bakery isn't going to be the one
that's just churning out boring

646
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,720
bread that people will eat.
The ones the bakeries that get

647
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,480
long queues around the block are
the ones doing something a bit

648
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,440
different.
It is within the realm of this

649
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,080
bread is safety.
I think that's a huge thing.

650
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,880
It's like I'm not going to feel
in danger eating this bread.

651
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:25,560
It's yummy.
I'm going to have a good

652
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,600
experience as the consumer
buying this bread.

653
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,760
But also nobody else is doing
this technique or this

654
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,000
particular.
They're not put in herbs in the

655
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:34,800
knots.
I don't know, I'm thinking of

656
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:36,960
this one bakery in North
Melbourne with really good

657
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,200
garlic bread knots and they're
doing something different that

658
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,360
you can't get at any other
bakery in Australia to my

659
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:43,560
knowledge.
When we're talking about

660
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,400
marketable, I do like to think
of that bakery thing is this is

661
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,000
this bread that people want to
eat, but then also what's fun

662
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,080
for me, how do I want to make my
bread different?

663
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,800
And I think there is a Venn
diagram there you have to be

664
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,000
intelligent about.
This idea is really, really fun

665
00:29:58,000 --> 00:29:59,800
for me.
It's actually, I think it's

666
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,520
funny to throw the bread at the
wall and have it crumble into a

667
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,600
million pieces and serve that.
But I also understand maybe

668
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,000
people don't want to eat that
broken, dirty piece of bread.

669
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,240
And then there is bread that
wouldn't be me.

670
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,240
That would be just a generic
supermarket loaf that people

671
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:15,680
would buy.
And I don't want to do that.

672
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,680
And the sweet spot is bread.
That's the fun, interesting

673
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,040
stuff that I want to make that
also people actually want to

674
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:22,440
eat.
Does that answer the question?

675
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,800
That is such an apartment
analogy.

676
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:26,920
I'm I'm really, really chopped.
We got that one down.

677
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,320
Yeah, you cannot.
I don't think any artist can

678
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,080
sell every single thing that
they're making.

679
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,000
You have some ideas that are
just and like that's, that's the

680
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,360
fun of being with other artists.
You know, every night at Comedy

681
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,080
Festival afterwards in the
artist bar, we're doing jokes

682
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,760
that they're only funny if
you're also a comedian who's

683
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,080
seen maybe like 600 shows and
has all the context for this

684
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,960
level of subversion.
It would be a deranged thing to

685
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:50,320
say on stage and no one would
enjoy.

686
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,200
So we share that with our other
bakers.

687
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,120
We're like, you know, this
cookie crazy idea I've had have

688
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,040
a listen to this and that's fun
for us.

689
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,480
And that's why we share our most
experimental things, I think are

690
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,400
with each other in private
conversations.

691
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,880
And then what we bring to the
public is that overlap of what I

692
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:07,320
want to do and what you want to
eat.

693
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,200
But yeah, I don't feel the
pressure to be marketable cuz I

694
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,600
do have fun playing with the
ideas that I'm not gonna sell

695
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,760
because they're not really food
safe to put it that way.

696
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,320
And then luckily what I doing,
what I like to do, there's some

697
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:22,240
people who like that.
And I do think there's a lot,

698
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,680
this is risky advice because I
think a lot of artists will will

699
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,120
sometimes make the error of
being too self indulgent, not

700
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:30,400
self included.
We've all done that.

701
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:34,160
But in every great work, there's
got to be some sense of this was

702
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,160
like a little bit self
indulgent, like this was fun for

703
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,600
the artist to make.
I want the Baker to have fun

704
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,720
with something and that's the
loaf that I want to get.

705
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,440
So yeah, there's no pressure.
You just just be smart about it.

706
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:45,760
Make bread that people want to
eat.

707
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,920
So it sounds like you're saying
that no matter what you're

708
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,080
doing, you know, learn your
craft, learn your craft well,

709
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,520
you know, and use whatever early
experience you had, maybe with,

710
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,960
with rejection, with people not
wanting to take your bread to

711
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,480
refine stuff until you can find
that sweet spot between this is

712
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,880
feeding people and this is
enjoyable for me.

713
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:10,120
Yes, and I don't think people
owe you anything for if you're

714
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,400
having fun doing something
creative, what a gift.

715
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,360
You're spending your life having
fun, you're doing something

716
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,440
creative, that's great.
No one owes you money for that.

717
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,120
No, And I think that's a huge
mistake.

718
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,760
They're like, I'm doing this one
specific thing that I find

719
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:23,960
really fun.
These people are bad people for

720
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:25,400
not buying tickets.
I was like, no, they're not.

721
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,480
You're having fun.
Have fun with your friends.

722
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,520
Along the way.
You will find something that

723
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,160
people will also want to see,
but I don't.

724
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,240
I don't think every single
creative thing I do is worth

725
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,520
other people's time.
Some, you know, sometimes I have

726
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:39,640
an idea where I go.
You know what?

727
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:41,840
That's just fun for Josh.
Yeah, that's.

728
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,280
I'm not gonna burden an audience
with this.

729
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,000
And with the bread analogy
comes, yeah, that idea of of

730
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,560
different flavors and movements,
like, you know what, What was it

731
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,160
like when Monty Python was on
the scene?

732
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,760
It would have been like the
first time you tasted fairy

733
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,000
bread or gluten.
Free bread or something.

734
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,840
A new dish, but one that people
wanted to eat.

735
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,080
Yes, yes.
Yeah, yeah, some people want to

736
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,360
eat like nothing can be
everyone's bag, I suppose.

737
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,400
Yeah, yeah.
And you understand you're not

738
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,360
favourable and you don't have to
be if you are, if only one in

739
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,320
1000 people like you like what
Melbourne's population is 5

740
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,920
million, that's 5000 people who
like you, you don't have to be

741
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:20,040
palatable to anymore.
You can be incredibly, like,

742
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,600
wealthy and successful and
comfortable as an artist only

743
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,520
being liked by one in 1000
people like, that's, that's the

744
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,480
dream one in 1000.
Yeah.

745
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,080
Oh, we wish.
Yeah.

746
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,400
All you need is.
All you need is 1000 true fans

747
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:33,360
as yeah.
Yeah.

748
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,920
As I think it was Kevin Kelly
who said that I'll have to have

749
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,440
to Fact Check that.
Talking about your immigration

750
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:44,080
journey to Europe and soon the
the UK, how has that opened like

751
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,240
new creative doors for you?
And I'm curious how their art

752
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,600
scene compares to Australia's.
Yeah.

753
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:51,160
Do you feel like it has better
support?

754
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,080
Is there more opportunity?
What's what's going on over

755
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:54,120
there?
That's interesting.

756
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,680
I think one of the greatest
gifts I have is seeing the

757
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,760
culture and the art that people
make in different places.

758
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,040
So even for years I'd go up and
do the tour around the

759
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,840
Australian East Coast and people
in Cairns and Melbourne have

760
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,080
very different priorities and
you'll see that at their poetry

761
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,560
reading.
And so to go around and to hear

762
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,239
the poetry coming out of
different cultures, I mean, we

763
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,880
call Australia country.
This is way too big for it's

764
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,000
bigger than Europe.
It was 400 plus countries for

765
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,520
like 60,000 years.
Let's face it, yeah.

766
00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:25,560
Australia is the word that we
Australia just means S.

767
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,360
You know that, right?
Like the King's mission to

768
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,280
discover terror Incognito.
Australia's unknown southern

769
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:32,400
land.
They didn't name it.

770
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:33,880
They just called it South in
Latin.

771
00:34:34,199 --> 00:34:36,360
And it's a word we use so we
don't have to think about the

772
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,520
400 and something countries that
were and in some cases still are

773
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,560
here.
So yeah, it's, it is not the

774
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,080
same culture everywhere and it
would be geographically

775
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,440
impossible.
It's, it's an unreasonable

776
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,239
colonial expectation to treat
this place as one country.

777
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,719
So even within Australia, you
start to notice these different

778
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:52,800
things.
And then of course, when I go

779
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,120
somewhere else, like going to
Europe and the UK and America

780
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,920
and Africa, you'd see people
making very different poetry and

781
00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:01,960
different comedy and different
meeting and different art in

782
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,680
different scenes.
So I think in terms of opening

783
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,160
new things, the number one thing
that has been open to me is that

784
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,960
I've been so informed.
I've seen, I've seen what the

785
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,320
culture is and like the kind of
poems that people are trying to

786
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,080
do in Brussels.
I've had the luck of seeing that

787
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:17,560
for.
That's just one example.

788
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,840
And I think the more I'm exposed
to, the more I absorb, you know,

789
00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:27,320
the thing of like, you watch
art, you absorb like 2% of its

790
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,160
power, sure.
And then you make more varied,

791
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,760
interesting art.
So that's the first thing.

792
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,920
And yeah, the second thing is
there are obviously different

793
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,120
systems and priorities in
different countries.

794
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:44,480
You know, there's a lot of work
for artists in Paris, a lot more

795
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:46,720
than you'd find.
I mean, Melbourne has more work

796
00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:50,000
for artists than anywhere else
in Australia, but it's still,

797
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,400
you know, it's 5 million people
pretty spread out.

798
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,880
There isn't really the
population density and there

799
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,200
isn't that culture of going out
and seeing stuff most of the

800
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,760
time that you'd find in a place
like Paris or Edinburgh, London.

801
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,000
So yeah, there are obviously
more opportunities.

802
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,600
You know, 40% of the staff, 40%
of the workers at the Moulin

803
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,080
Rouge are Australians, right?
Because in Australia so many,

804
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,720
especially girls do dance
lessons in Australia.

805
00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:16,480
There's a huge industry in after
school dance classes and

806
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:18,600
Saturday dance classes.
And what you get is this

807
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,720
workforce of, you know, by 18,
there's quite a lot of, you

808
00:36:21,720 --> 00:36:25,000
know, girls are like young women
who've done a lot of dance

809
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,760
training and then they're adults
and they go, I'm an Australian

810
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:29,440
with more than a decade of dance
training.

811
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:30,800
I'd like a job.
And so it goes.

812
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,000
And then France, German, America
snaps them up.

813
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,120
Imagine Disneyland is is full of
expats as well.

814
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:41,680
Rife and yeah, you'll find art
scenes in Europe teeming with

815
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,280
Australians because we do get
pretty good education in some

816
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:46,640
senses.
We, you know at school you get

817
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,160
to do quite a bit of music and
theatre.

818
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,440
There's so much dance and then
you grow up and there's less

819
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:52,040
opportunities.
But you know, Europe loves to

820
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,280
snap us up and give us Canada's
trying to advertise for us.

821
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,720
There's quite a lot of
Australians in America, you

822
00:36:57,720 --> 00:36:59,880
know, we go where the work is,
yes, but you know, it's

823
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:03,520
similarly if you were, there are
some people who are talented

824
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,800
athletes in the Asia Pacific
region and they got to come to

825
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,560
Australia if they really want
the most employment and

826
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,120
opportunities.
I've noticed something about you

827
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,360
can tell what a culture values
by who gets to skip queues in

828
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,080
transport.
So if you're at an airport in

829
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,760
Australia, any, any say national
sports, it doesn't have to be an

830
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,840
Australian one could be a
visiting sports team turn up and

831
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,440
they're in the uniform.
The staff make sure you know,

832
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:30,680
they jump to the front of the
queue, they get out cuz that is

833
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,720
I have we're very, very good at
that and we treasure that.

834
00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:37,040
Like in America, it's anyone in
military get any veterans or

835
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:38,840
serving members.
Yes, everyone you know says

836
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,160
thank you for your service and
skips and past In France, it's

837
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:42,720
if you're carrying a musical
instrument.

838
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,320
Wow.
I was just carrying a guitar.

839
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,600
And they were like, Yep, like
carrying your stuff, putting it

840
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:48,880
on the bus, the train, the
everything.

841
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,040
You know, you go to the train to
go to England.

842
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:52,880
That's the long queue.
And they see the guitar and like

843
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,040
somebody else with the violin
and they pick us too.

844
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,320
And we just, you know, that's
that separate queue for first

845
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,160
class and go, Yep, you skip
everyone you do.

846
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,720
We take care of our musicians,
yeah, France is an example of

847
00:38:02,720 --> 00:38:04,480
they.
You skip the cues if you're

848
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:06,920
carrying an instrument and
you're looked after really well,

849
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:09,480
even if you're foreign, just
like Australia will look after a

850
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,240
foreign athlete because they're
like, this is our heritage, this

851
00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:13,920
is what we're good at.
We look after you.

852
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,200
It's.
Almost like the Amex black card

853
00:38:16,240 --> 00:38:18,120
of.
Yeah, yeah, the arts of like a

854
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,720
profession that gets you looked
after and cherished.

855
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,760
Yeah, there are very different.
I mean, Australia does have some

856
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,680
enormous festivals.
So Edinburgh Fringe Festival is

857
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,000
the largest arts festival in the
world and also in the history of

858
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:30,600
the world.
But then, you know, the second

859
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,240
biggest is Adelaide, Melbourne
Comedy Festival is huge.

860
00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:36,640
Perth Fringe is rapidly growing
and maybe the 4th largest

861
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,440
festival in the world soon.
So we do have this circuit of

862
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,960
very big festivals from January
to April.

863
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,240
And you know, there are foreign
artists who don't come for that

864
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:48,160
circuit.
But for the rest of the year

865
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,720
there's a lot more going on in a
in a city like Paris or London.

866
00:38:51,720 --> 00:38:52,840
But you know, that's not all of
Europe.

867
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,760
If you go somewhere like Milan,
there's there's less happening.

868
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:58,720
Yeah, fascinating.
What a great little, little

869
00:38:58,720 --> 00:39:00,720
lesson in culture there.
That's great.

870
00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:02,280
That's great.
I think we're ready for piece

871
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,520
#2.
Oh, piece #2 yeah.

872
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,040
I wonder, would this be what?
What have we been talking about?

873
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,600
We've been talking about music,
we've been talking about comedy.

874
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,560
We've been talking about travel.
We've been talking about

875
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,800
Australia, what other themes
have come up for you?

876
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:20,720
Are you trying to improvise a
piece right?

877
00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:22,960
No no no no.
I'm trying to pick from

878
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,280
something that I wouldn't waste
your listeners time with making

879
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,960
up stuff.
No, I will, but just out of what

880
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:30,920
I have do.
You have anything about making

881
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,600
bread?
Making you know what?

882
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,480
I got some stuff about soup.
Oh yeah, let's do it.

883
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,760
What fraction are you?
What fraction black?

884
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,120
What fraction white?
What fraction foreign?

885
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:45,280
What fraction belonging?
What fraction of you is you?

886
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:51,400
What fract is what are you?
School teacher said that I am

887
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,880
mixed, so could I please list my
fractions?

888
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,040
Stand at the front, name every
land in my blood.

889
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:59,440
My fractions would be helpful
for the lesson.

890
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,520
She was quite sure, so when I
answered her, she wrote my

891
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:06,160
ancestors inside cartoon pizza
slices on the whiteboard.

892
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,440
The teacher said that I was a
great example of fractions and I

893
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:14,280
learnt that I am a great example
when I am broken apart.

894
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,000
So I learnt my fractions by
heart, learnt to serve myself in

895
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,560
halves, in quarters, in eights,
in whatever suits you taste.

896
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:25,240
Everyone likes pizza, right?
For years my opener was I am

897
00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:28,920
descended from slaves and slave
traders, so I make myself work

898
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,280
hard.
The crowd always laughed, so I

899
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,160
continued to pit myself against
myself.

900
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:37,040
Wrote essays on reconciling
identities, shredded my tongue

901
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,400
so badly I never tasted my
lungs.

902
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:47,280
My lungs are always together.
My lungs hold all of me with

903
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,240
every breath that only splinters
at my tongue.

904
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:55,120
My exhale is whole until I speak
myself into fractions.

905
00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:00,120
One year I date a New York
socialite whose friends are rich

906
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,440
and woke and white and rich
woke, quite delighted that I am

907
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:09,000
so diverse.
They asked me for my fractions

908
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:10,520
and I am well rehearsed.
Afterwards.

909
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,720
They are so hasty to demonstrate
that they are not racist, but

910
00:41:13,720 --> 00:41:17,080
they all talk about how much
they love Obama.

911
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,120
They say they are jealous of my
skin.

912
00:41:20,720 --> 00:41:23,640
One says it looks like semi
sweet chocolate, another says

913
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,480
dark chocolate.
They debate about me without me,

914
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,320
40 percent, 60%.
No one can agree on my cacao

915
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,640
fraction and I swear I have a
strong sense of self.

916
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,120
But the next day at the shop I
stare a long time at the map

917
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:41,600
above the chocolate shelf.
Maps are just neat lies and I

918
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,880
have learnt you can go to the
place they call Border Walk with

919
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,760
one foot on each side.
It does not hurt.

920
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:53,000
I am tired of being pizza.
I will be soup.

921
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,360
No soup is half carrot, half
potato.

922
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:02,160
A carrot and potato.
Soup is all carrot, all potato.

923
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,800
I am taking the pizza knife off
the table today.

924
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:15,840
I hold myself with a ladle.
Oh, Josh, my, my jaw dropped at

925
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:19,400
several points during that poem,
but especially with the story at

926
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,520
the start again, I love, I love
where you start with a piece

927
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:23,920
and, and, and where it ends up
going.

928
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,600
It's it's fascinating.
I'm assuming true story.

929
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:30,760
Oh yeah, everything's true.
Of your cultural background,

930
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:32,560
I'm.
Deeply unimaginative.

931
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,080
OK, I've been thinking, you
know, Myers Briggs yes.

932
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,360
And they're like, oh, are you
extrovert or introvert?

933
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:38,920
Why are you on the spectrum from
feeling the sense in.

934
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:40,800
I've been trying to do this for
artists.

935
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,600
So one of them is what I'm
calling what is it reflectors

936
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,560
versus imaginers.
So if you join a spectrum

937
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:51,000
between some people are just
almost journalistic, just

938
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,600
describing the world, observing
the world, talking about what's

939
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,760
real.
And on the other end is people

940
00:42:55,760 --> 00:43:00,240
who make up like fantasy
universes that, and obviously

941
00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:02,720
there's a spectrum between that,
you know, some fancy universes

942
00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:04,520
that's just an allegory for the
world and actually quite

943
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:06,640
observational.
Some of them are inventing new

944
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:11,080
ideas and concepts and senses.
And on that I'm 100% reflector.

945
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,760
I, I'm, I'm not imagining or
making up anything.

946
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:16,360
I'm just describing and
reflecting back.

947
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,280
So yeah, it is, It is true
because I'm just, I admire

948
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,960
fantasy, All authors, but all I
know is like a very

949
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,840
journalistic, like observational
approach to the world.

950
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:26,080
Yeah, it is.
It's true.

951
00:43:26,240 --> 00:43:28,480
Also.
It wasn't, I didn't clock it as

952
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,000
such a big deal.
I was in primary school.

953
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,520
We're doing fractions.
I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm this 1/8

954
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:34,600
this.
I'm all of this.

955
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,720
And then as I grew up, I was
like, this method of perceiving

956
00:43:37,720 --> 00:43:41,120
myself is not serving me, so I
will.

957
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:42,840
And you, you are all the things
you are.

958
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,280
You're not like people aren't
like half Italian, half

959
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:47,560
Australian.
They're just like Italian and

960
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:48,760
they're Australian or whatever
it is.

961
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:54,200
I mean, and so many things
happen, you know, at at that age

962
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,880
or whatever, where, yeah, it's
just not a big deal.

963
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:01,160
Whereas I look back on like, you
know, my grade 3 teacher playing

964
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:05,760
this like fun game where, you
know, the the whole class was

965
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,480
involved in it, where, you know,
she'd, like close her eyes and

966
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:12,720
have three random students.
Goodness, it's going to sound

967
00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:14,120
awful.
Can you feel like a little

968
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:15,640
shoulder massage?
And she had to.

969
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:16,800
Guess who they were?
No.

970
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,040
And I never like at the time,
it's like, whatever.

971
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:22,800
It's only way later where you're
like.

972
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:25,120
Ohh that's so much worse than
my.

973
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,560
Yeah, I didn't expect that to
come.

974
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:28,680
Up.
I think that's, you know, that's

975
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:33,240
part of everyone's got the at
least one real messed up story

976
00:44:33,240 --> 00:44:34,840
about teachers in primary
school.

977
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, we've come a long way.

978
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,240
We're learning a lot.
We're learning a lot.

979
00:44:40,240 --> 00:44:40,880
Yeah.
Yeah.

980
00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:44,840
I want you to take us behind the
scenes, Josh, of your

981
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:48,560
award-winning cabaret show.
Gender is a Scam and I am

982
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:49,680
winning.
Oh yeah.

983
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:54,600
What does it take like to put
together a solo show that is

984
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:58,320
musically sound, funny and
provocative?

985
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:00,760
Again, triple threat.
Just practice the things you

986
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,000
know, Practice your music.
Do you drills every day for

987
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:05,720
decades?
Lots of work shopping, yeah.

988
00:45:05,720 --> 00:45:07,400
Yeah, yeah.
But like, just like sit down

989
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:08,680
with the instrument and practice
it.

990
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:12,320
So then when you want to apply
to comedy, you're not you're not

991
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:14,600
spending all your attention.
Focus on that.

992
00:45:14,720 --> 00:45:17,280
Because you can imagine,
imagine, say there's an

993
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:18,880
instrument that you and I don't
know how to play.

994
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,640
Let's say somebody put a
trombone in our hands and asked

995
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,040
us to also learn some
choreography that we don't know.

996
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:28,240
And then also, are you any good
on a Pogo stick?

997
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:31,640
I wouldn't know.
Yeah, me neither.

998
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:33,360
I've never tried it.
And you have to try all of these

999
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,360
things.
I think we would maybe not be

1000
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,600
that successful because each one
of them is taking up a lot of

1001
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:40,360
our attention.
A lot of our, you know, frontal

1002
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:44,040
cortex is occupied.
But the more obviously, you

1003
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:46,160
know, the more you push
something into.

1004
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:47,520
I don't really have to think
about it.

1005
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,480
I'm just playing this, the less
space it occupies and the more

1006
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,640
you can focus on other aspects
of your performance.

1007
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,720
And I think that's when when you
see people anxious or

1008
00:45:55,720 --> 00:46:00,000
overwhelmed on stage that
there's so many frameworks from

1009
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,320
which you can approach that.
And you know, I do teach

1010
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:05,080
performance and things and often
it's what is taking up your

1011
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:08,720
focus and how can we work on
that so that it takes less and

1012
00:46:08,720 --> 00:46:10,760
less and less if you focus.
And if you thought of if

1013
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:12,760
somebody had been on a Pogo
stick since five years old, as

1014
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,880
an expert Pogo stick, that's
already going to take none of

1015
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:17,760
their focus.
They can just worry about the

1016
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,800
trombone and the death.
So I think if it's saying how

1017
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,880
you put those together, yeah,
you work on the music.

1018
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:25,200
So it's like, all right, this is
easy.

1019
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,320
I'm not really attempting
anything very musically

1020
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:28,920
difficult in that I keep it
pretty simple.

1021
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:32,680
I've been doing a thing with my
comedy where I don't write in

1022
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:34,560
the top fifth of my singing
register.

1023
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:36,760
Just I was like, you know, those
high notes.

1024
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:38,440
What if I get a cold?
What if I'm tired?

1025
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,640
What if I wanted the party
pretty harder festival.

1026
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,600
Either way, I don't think
anyone's come into my comedy

1027
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:46,600
show about like social political
analysis.

1028
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,480
But like, wow, I really love how
Josh hits a high GI.

1029
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:52,840
Don't think anyone wants that.
Yeah, it's seeing for like a Tim

1030
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:54,840
Minchin, you know, as much
talent as he has.

1031
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:56,440
Yeah, you're not going there
for.

1032
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:58,920
You know, trills and yeah, stuff
like that.

1033
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:00,760
As if I were an opera singer,
I'd be like, you know what?

1034
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:03,280
Maybe cool it on the jokes and
the lyrics and focus on those

1035
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,440
high notes.
It's what is your public to see

1036
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,800
what what is the purpose of the
purpose of this is not a hit.

1037
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,800
So that's a way to simplify it
to take the pressure off to take

1038
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,400
the focus off just to take the
stress off every day.

1039
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:17,360
I I could have the most wrecked
voice I've ever had in my life

1040
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,520
and still go out and do that
show because it's not does not

1041
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:23,200
enter a difficult range for me.
It's in a very confusing.

1042
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:25,360
So that's one way to take the
pressure off and take the focus

1043
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:26,800
off.
So I guess when you ask how do

1044
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:28,000
you do all those things
together?

1045
00:47:28,240 --> 00:47:30,920
You set them up so that each
component is well within your

1046
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:32,720
capacities.
And obviously that's going to be

1047
00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:35,880
different for different people.
So for someone who's quite

1048
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,680
advanced as an instrumentalist,
they can probably do things that

1049
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:40,800
other people would see as quite
tricky, but it's easy for them.

1050
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,400
Whereas if they're very, very
basic on the instrument, I'd

1051
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:46,520
recommend keep that so simple,
focus on something else.

1052
00:47:46,720 --> 00:47:49,440
So for me, it's yes, you've
practiced your music, that's

1053
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:50,720
chill.
You've practiced your comedy,

1054
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:52,720
that's chill.
You're, you're focusing on the

1055
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:54,480
energy or the audience or
something.

1056
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:58,320
But practice until these various
components are taking up less

1057
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,280
and less and less of your focus,
so that your mind is free to be

1058
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,960
present and have fun.
And that must have been how the

1059
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,560
Axis of Awesome built their four
chord song or whatever.

1060
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:08,120
Like maybe.
And that's the joke, the

1061
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:11,120
simplicity of it all, you know,
and the fact that, yeah, you lay

1062
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,160
the foundation, you make it as
easy as you can to then build on

1063
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,840
it.
Yeah, I, I think you often see,

1064
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,040
you know, when you see somebody
attempting something on stage

1065
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:20,680
and it's ambitious and the
reason for it and they don't

1066
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:22,960
quite hit it, that that can be a
very entertaining.

1067
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,680
But I think often what I try to
do is it's a thing of imagine

1068
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,480
somebody's got to run, say 100
meters because they're a soccer

1069
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,000
player and they do 130 meter
sprints.

1070
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:34,280
So that on the day they're never
really pushing themselves to

1071
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,240
that capacity.
And I think that's something I

1072
00:48:36,240 --> 00:48:39,280
really, I do take a lot of
learning from sports in the

1073
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:41,600
arts.
And it's like practice beyond

1074
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:43,760
what you have to deliver on
stage so that when you get

1075
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:45,240
there, it's like, oh, I'm
cruising.

1076
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,880
I'm, I'm never getting into like
my 10 out of 10 gear.

1077
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:52,360
I'm operating at AB, skilled at
about a 7 out of 10 difficulty

1078
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:55,080
for me so that I've got
breathing space to have fun and

1079
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:56,760
be present and, you know, really
enjoy it.

1080
00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:59,760
Does that mean behind closed
doors during rehearsal you are

1081
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:01,240
up in your high register just
to?

1082
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:03,440
Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Practice.

1083
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:07,320
Oh, you know, I can, you know,
I've I can play much more

1084
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:12,040
difficult piano than what is in
that show because why would I?

1085
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,160
Yeah, what's the point?
Or?

1086
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,840
Yeah, again, the the audience.
Like what is the bread they're

1087
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:19,960
coming to eat?
Yeah, I think they're coming for

1088
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:20,960
jokes.
Hope.

1089
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,320
I really hope they're they're
for joke.

1090
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:26,760
Yeah.
I do think of that as comedy 1st

1091
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:30,080
and then it is a comedy show and
then music supports that.

1092
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:32,360
Yeah.
It's not a music show with

1093
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:35,040
occasional jokes I I think.
It's not Michael Bublé.

1094
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:37,760
Call me old fashioned.
I think musical comedians should

1095
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,080
write jokes, and only some of
them do.

1096
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:41,600
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's.

1097
00:49:42,240 --> 00:49:44,640
Got a little bit of a
hypothetical for you here.

1098
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:49,120
Gosh, if you had unlimited
resources and no constraints?

1099
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:51,200
I'm terrible at hypotheticals,
by the way, actually answering

1100
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:52,400
them.
But if you had unlimited

1101
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,440
resources and no constraints,
what kind of creative project

1102
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:59,440
would you create, do you reckon?
I do a lot of commissioning, I

1103
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,920
reckon.
I mean, we can go what's what's

1104
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:05,360
a niche?
OK, there was this team of video

1105
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,080
game designers, I forget the
name of the studio, and they

1106
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,560
made this game called The
Saboteur, and it's beautiful.

1107
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:11,920
Pandemic.
Got pandemic, you know, in

1108
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:12,640
peace.
Yeah, yeah.

1109
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:16,720
So it's set in occupied Paris
and it's all black and white and

1110
00:50:16,720 --> 00:50:20,120
you're just this this full of an
Irish mechanic who thinks he's

1111
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:24,880
so cool and he he gets tangled
up with the French resistance

1112
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:28,160
and gradually ends up falling
into their cause.

1113
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:30,720
And as parts of Paris get
liberated from the Nazis, they

1114
00:50:30,720 --> 00:50:32,520
bloom into colour.
And it's so beautiful.

1115
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:34,600
And it's a pretty accurate map
of Paris.

1116
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:37,200
And just by regions like you can
go around and find different

1117
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:38,560
regions.
It does correspond.

1118
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,120
I have like gone to Paris,
reinstalled it and played it and

1119
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:43,760
so much fun.
And you know, he has he thinks

1120
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:46,400
he's a cool ladies man.
And you know, without spoiling,

1121
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,520
he learns over the course of the
game that the women that he

1122
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:52,840
thinks are into him actually
just using him and they're in

1123
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:54,320
charge of the resistance and
he's a fool.

1124
00:50:54,720 --> 00:50:58,520
And it's so beautiful and fun
and, you know, it's, it's good

1125
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:01,120
to, you know, run around and
kill Nazis.

1126
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,680
It's, it's a real fun game.
And then Electronic Arts

1127
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:06,840
swallowed them up.
You know, capitalism ended that

1128
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,440
studio and just swallowed them
up into their thing.

1129
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:10,600
And you know, a lot of people
lost their jobs.

1130
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,000
I would love to bring back
whatever team made in the

1131
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:16,520
Saboteur, Give them so much
money that they like, you know

1132
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:18,040
what, we can't have a game suit
again.

1133
00:51:18,240 --> 00:51:21,680
And I'd give them years and good
wages and just see what they

1134
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:23,720
make next.
But I'd probably want another

1135
00:51:23,720 --> 00:51:25,120
French.
I want the sequel.

1136
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:27,920
I'd want more French resistant
stuff, you know, going through

1137
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,000
the rest of the country.
That's one thing I would do.

1138
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:32,920
I reckon I would Commission a
lot of friends to make things.

1139
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:36,640
Something I've thought about is
kind of mean commissions.

1140
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:41,040
Like what?
OK, so comedian Grace Jarvis,

1141
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,960
she loves the bus.
She's, I think she's written an

1142
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:46,240
article, might have been the age
of the Guardian.

1143
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:48,360
You know, got to like, write an
article about how much she loves

1144
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:50,600
the bus.
I don't like the bus.

1145
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:55,720
How much money would I have to
offer Grace to be like, hey, I'm

1146
00:51:55,720 --> 00:51:58,680
going to pay you this much.
You got to write an article

1147
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:02,240
about how bad the bus is, how
rubbish the bus is, how much you

1148
00:52:02,240 --> 00:52:04,240
hate the bus.
There's got to be a point at

1149
00:52:04,240 --> 00:52:05,520
which, like, that's worth it for
her.

1150
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,480
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, like nefarious, silly

1151
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:13,040
commissions, I think.
Yeah, I would like to just make

1152
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:15,120
some artists work together.
I'd love to go.

1153
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:20,120
You know Elf Lyons, she's a
fantastic clown from the UK.

1154
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:21,960
She's here at the moment for the
show called Horses.

1155
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,520
It's it's incredible.
I've never seen anybody do.

1156
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:28,640
She's got these single word
shows like Sworn and Raven and

1157
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:32,400
Horses, and she's phenomenal in
the way she takes an animal and

1158
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:35,040
turns it into funny clown for an
hour.

1159
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,920
She's brilliant.
I would love to see her work

1160
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,760
with a massive orchestra if I
could just, you know, pay the

1161
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:42,360
orchestra and an elephant be
like, yeah, you've got to

1162
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,440
develop a clown show with this.
That would be fun to me.

1163
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:50,120
I'd love to get my my buddy
Blake Everett and get him to

1164
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:53,280
work with a game design company
because, you know, he makes very

1165
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:55,760
funny jokes.
I'd like to see the bits he made

1166
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:58,360
played out in sort of an
interactive game.

1167
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:00,320
I just have lots of ideas of
people.

1168
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:04,080
I'd like to send my friends off
on a wild goose chase with a

1169
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:06,240
huge budget.
And specifically, I want you to

1170
00:53:06,240 --> 00:53:10,240
work with this music or I want
you to work with this studio and

1171
00:53:10,240 --> 00:53:13,160
and see where I end up.
That is an extraordinary,

1172
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:15,360
generous answer, Josh, and I
guess it.

1173
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:17,600
It's not generous.
It's for my entertainment,

1174
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:18,680
right?
Yeah, you are.

1175
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:21,080
I'm saying this selfishly.
Fair enough.

1176
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:24,960
Yeah, you are, you know, being
the patron for all these things

1177
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:28,600
or or in in the case of the the
bus article, an anti patron.

1178
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:31,440
It's always like you're you're
paying someone to not create.

1179
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:33,920
What I'm I'm bullying, my
friend, is what's happening.

1180
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:37,600
Give it up, please.
Great deep cut with the saboteur

1181
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:40,680
as well.
Yeah, I mean, you know, Grand

1182
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,640
Theft Auto 6 is coming out soon.
Maybe the saboteur too needs to

1183
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:45,200
take the fight to it or
whatever.

1184
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:46,480
We need more saboteur.
I am.

1185
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:50,080
I'm a real sucker for any game
that has an element of like

1186
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:53,400
cleaning to it, you know, and
you mentioned the black and

1187
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:56,360
white to the, the, the colour.
Like that's, that's what it's

1188
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:58,760
all about.
I reckon the, the, the Tomb

1189
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:02,000
Raider reboot in 2013 is just
like really, really aggressive,

1190
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:06,160
violent cleaning as you're kind
of going around the island

1191
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:09,160
upgrading things and whatever
love, love of Metroidvania.

1192
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:13,080
So yeah, rest in peace Pandemic
one of one of Brisbane, I

1193
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:15,120
believe's greatest game studios.
So.

1194
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:18,520
Yeah, it's whatever.
I think there's a lot of great

1195
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:22,240
art that's been swallowed up by
resources, and I'd love to get

1196
00:54:22,240 --> 00:54:25,080
the resources to buy back their
independence and the and just

1197
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:27,600
see what they do.
Yeah, just just, oh, you know,

1198
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:30,480
when you've seen somebody who's
just like, they're so talented,

1199
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:32,720
but I know they're going to
struggle against the industry

1200
00:54:32,720 --> 00:54:34,920
for 15 years before they get
somewhere.

1201
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:37,920
I'll have to just give them the
funds to go go do if I could

1202
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:41,240
throw like, whatever money.
Do you know Jackie Lumsdon?

1203
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:43,200
Right, you're name dropping a
lot.

1204
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:45,680
She it's not named like that's
good.

1205
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:47,640
Most people will have no idea
who I'm talking like.

1206
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:50,080
Jackie Lumsen is a Melbourne
indie musician.

1207
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:52,560
I reckon she's making some of
the best pop music in the world.

1208
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:55,320
We just throw money at her for
massive studio album.

1209
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:58,040
I would just get the benefits.
So it's it's about my

1210
00:54:58,040 --> 00:54:59,720
entertainment.
Yes, yes.

1211
00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:01,760
Well, we said no constraints,
yes, so.

1212
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:02,920
Do you know what you'd spend it
on?

1213
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:05,880
Pull, pull, whatever strings.
Like I said, I'm terrible at

1214
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:09,080
hypotheticals.
OK, so I don't know, but but I

1215
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:12,000
think if I really thought about
it, it would be, it would also

1216
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:13,840
be along those lines.
There would be, there would

1217
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:16,840
definitely be something for me
and something that I want to

1218
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:21,720
have a crack at, but there would
be people who I respect so much

1219
00:55:21,720 --> 00:55:25,040
who are just an obscurity and
the injustice of it all is

1220
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:27,440
annoying me.
And that I want to, I want to

1221
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:30,840
change that through promotion,
through the resources, the big

1222
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:33,480
studio, the the collaboration,
whatever it is.

1223
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,000
Yeah, you've inspired me on on
that one.

1224
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:38,960
It's good.
And also like I get an ice

1225
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:41,480
sculpture of Garfield 100.
Percent.

1226
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:44,360
Just something really, really
vain or or superfluous.

1227
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:47,240
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No ragrats tattoo.

1228
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:51,160
Yeah, yeah.
Over the front, I'm interested

1229
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:55,040
in what's what's next for you,
Josh in in this kind of next,

1230
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:57,040
next stage.
You're you're on the road for a

1231
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:00,360
lot of the year.
Yes, the last time I spent 12

1232
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:04,160
weeks in one city was March to
May in Melbourne 2023.

1233
00:56:04,240 --> 00:56:07,000
And since then it's been,
there's been nine other

1234
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,160
countries.
I think what's I am going to

1235
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:10,880
move to Edinburgh and settle the
NB base there.

1236
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:13,320
I, I went there last year and I
loved it so much.

1237
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:16,600
I really love Scotland, love the
culture, the food.

1238
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:20,000
I something that was interesting
for me is like going up from

1239
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:23,240
London to Edinburgh.
I've never seen this vibe shift

1240
00:56:23,240 --> 00:56:25,040
before.
My life where going up from

1241
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:29,440
England to Scotland it gets a
lot whiter demographics wise but

1242
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:31,440
much less racist.
Wow.

1243
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:33,920
Yeah, Scots are, they're really
great.

1244
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:36,680
I and just going in and you
know, you do poetry, you do

1245
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:38,200
comments just like stand up with
a crowd.

1246
00:56:39,240 --> 00:56:42,680
I was amazed by how easily I
slot into that culture.

1247
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:44,800
I was like, really, I fit here.
I belong here.

1248
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:48,240
So I mean, I also, you know,
Paris and Melbourne, a wonderful

1249
00:56:48,240 --> 00:56:50,880
place, but I'm going to be based
in Edinburgh.

1250
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:53,520
What's coming up next?
There's a hidden door festival

1251
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:57,320
in Edinburgh that's, you know,
poetry, music, live arts

1252
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:00,920
festival that's on in June.
I'll be in Paris, I think 16th

1253
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:03,840
of June for Paris.
Spoken words coming up after

1254
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:09,920
that or I can't, like I've been,
I can't announce it yet because

1255
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:12,960
there's, you know, when you get
booked for something and you

1256
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:15,520
can't, you're not meant to say
what The thing is yet.

1257
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:20,720
But I will say in late June this
year I will be in the English

1258
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:23,920
town of Glastonbury.
Who knows why, Who could tell?

1259
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:26,640
I don't know.
So just visiting Glastonbury I

1260
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:28,120
can say that.
Yeah, I will be in the town of

1261
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:30,480
Glastonbury.
And then I think July, I've got

1262
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:33,240
a date in Berlin.
Berlin spoken word.

1263
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:36,000
And then coming up after that,
Edinburgh Fringe, there's,

1264
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:38,840
there's a few things going on.
I might be playing music for

1265
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:42,040
some people.
I'll be hosting a sort of club

1266
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:45,760
Fringe piano bar, dance party on
Sunday nights and I'm not sure

1267
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:48,240
what's happening after that.
There's there's a yeah, there's

1268
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:50,760
a few things around Europe and
the UK coming up in the

1269
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:53,120
following months.
Wonderful, wonderful.

1270
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:56,480
Some good stuff on the horizon.
I, I thought of another idea of,

1271
00:57:56,520 --> 00:58:00,160
of what I would do in that in
the case of like no restraints

1272
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:02,840
or whatever, I would in terms of
like paying someone to not do

1273
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:05,680
something.
I would pay out Disney for the

1274
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:08,320
rights for Firefly so they don't
make any more stuff.

1275
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:12,320
I don't want them to reboot it.
They have the rights now.

1276
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,080
They could ruin it.
Yeah, yeah, just leave.

1277
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:18,480
Leave that shit alone please.
Yeah, That, that that's fair.

1278
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:22,480
Now I, I feel it's interesting
because I'm about to ask a

1279
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:24,520
muser, you know, a very musical
question.

1280
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:28,760
It's our overarching analogy for
this season, which is, Josh, if

1281
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:32,680
your creative work was an
instrument in an orchestra, a

1282
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:35,720
metaphorical orchestra, what
instruments do you think it

1283
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:38,920
would be?
For my creative work, is the

1284
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:41,120
orchestra like the entire art
scene?

1285
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:47,280
Yeah, yeah, it kind of is.
I don't know what that's that's

1286
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:48,600
AI.
Reckon you could put that to

1287
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:50,200
different people and get
different answers.

1288
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:52,920
That's exactly.
What, what vibe do I give off as

1289
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:55,240
because it's boring?
Because I play guitar and piano

1290
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:57,040
and bass and stuff that's not
interesting.

1291
00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:00,080
What's a funny instrument that's
also sometimes there?

1292
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,480
I don't know, like a tuba?
We need a theremin.

1293
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:04,480
I think we need a theremin
theremin.

1294
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:09,120
Yeah, I like tubers can go warm,
but they can also be like real

1295
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:11,560
sad.
Maybe a tuba, I don't know.

1296
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:14,480
And they wrap around you like a
like a hug.

1297
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:17,320
Yeah, I don't know.
What's what's the funny

1298
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:19,560
instruments?
I think maybe percussion.

1299
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:21,960
You can get real silly.
We can wake people up.

1300
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:25,600
They're not very sad.
They're not What's a treat?

1301
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:27,760
Look all I'm really.
What instrument lets you eat the

1302
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:30,080
most snacks?
It would need to be something

1303
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:32,800
where your hands are free.
Maybe.

1304
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:35,960
Yeah, because like one of the
joys of because I've been in

1305
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:38,240
orchestras, you know, playing
keys or like, you know, the

1306
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:39,920
strings.
Orchestra Victoria playing

1307
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:42,280
guitar.
And one of the joys, especially

1308
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:45,200
if you're in the orchestra for a
musical, is that you can snack.

1309
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:47,400
Yeah.
It's like if there's one song

1310
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:49,600
where like, they don't need me
too much on keys I'm meeting.

1311
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:52,640
So maybe it's maybe it's a kick
drum because your mouth is free,

1312
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:54,000
your hands are free.
Yeah, just a kick.

1313
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:57,240
Just the kick drum in the orc.
Where in a magical world where

1314
00:59:57,240 --> 00:59:59,840
you get hired to just do the
kick drum?

1315
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:00,880
Yeah, maybe.
Yeah.

1316
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:02,400
OK, that's fine.
Kick drum maybe.

1317
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:03,120
Yeah, yeah.
OK.

1318
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:06,440
Just just a foot based
instrument we.

1319
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:07,960
Need someone to keep time.
We need someone.

1320
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:10,520
To keep time, Yeah, that's fine.
Whatever let's me stack, I

1321
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:11,320
reckon.
Kick drums.

1322
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:12,240
Fun.
Brilliant.

1323
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:13,320
I like that We'll.
Slot.

1324
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:14,640
You into?
I don't think there are kick

1325
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:19,120
drums in most orchestras.
It's getting, yeah, it's getting

1326
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:21,480
very fringy, very contemporary,
very fast.

1327
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:24,240
Oh, Pyborgan.
Oh yeah, Pyborgan.

1328
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:26,840
But I mostly just use the pedal,
so I'm snacking.

1329
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:29,280
That's Pyborgans who do stuff
with orchestras.

1330
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:31,120
Do you?
Reckon Hans Zimmer like snacks a

1331
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:32,680
lot during his shows when he's
on the organ.

1332
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:38,120
No, no, I thought about that and
I think everyone's looking at

1333
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:41,280
him.
It doesn't just duck behind for.

1334
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:43,760
A while so they tend not to let
you bring food into those

1335
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:46,200
orchestras.
Yeah, you don't want to.

1336
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:48,400
OK.
The parts of genuinely like

1337
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:50,880
where I belong is musical
theatre and orchestra.

1338
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:52,920
So it's like under the pit and
no one can see.

1339
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:54,920
Yes.
And like you know you can, you

1340
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:56,560
can have a snack.
Goblin Goblin Corp.

1341
01:00:56,560 --> 01:00:59,200
Yeah, you're, you're just having
a snack and then you're playing

1342
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:00,760
your pace.
And then your friend who's, you

1343
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:03,120
know, there's no flute in this
and you know, she's checking the

1344
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:05,360
cricket scores.
That's what happens.

1345
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:07,400
That's not musical theatre.
So, yeah.

1346
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:09,640
What?
It's definitely a musical

1347
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:12,640
theatre orchestra and it's in
the pit and it's whatever

1348
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:15,440
instrument gets the most breaks.
There you go.

1349
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:17,200
Yeah, there you go.
Magic triangle or something?

1350
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:19,240
Yeah, yeah.
So they're not a drum because

1351
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:22,520
they they don't get breaks.
Yeah, if there's a drum, they're

1352
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:25,600
in every single song.
Yeah, that Achilles is just

1353
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:27,360
getting the workout.
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty

1354
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:28,200
non-stop.
I wouldn't.

1355
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:29,120
Yeah, I wouldn't want to be
them.

1356
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:31,320
Good stuff.
Bad for their ears, bad for

1357
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:34,160
their joints.
Certainly, certainly a unique

1358
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:35,920
answer.
But I do like, I do like the

1359
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:38,560
orchestra that we're we're
building.

1360
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:41,160
I think there's now 3 pianists.
So there's a little bit of

1361
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:42,400
competition.
I don't know if they'll be like

1362
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:45,240
playing, kind of.
Do any of them actually play

1363
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:48,000
piano?
No, it's it's a metaphor.

1364
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:49,680
But some of them do.
Sorry, it's a metaphor.

1365
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:51,680
Yeah, OK, so that's.
So if they're pianists, what

1366
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:53,200
they're saying is like, they're
not normally part of the

1367
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:56,240
orchestra, but it's a piano
Symphony and there's 80 people

1368
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:58,960
hired to support their solo.
I think what we're trying to

1369
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:02,120
say, Josh, is I put, I put
together this analogy without

1370
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:04,000
really thinking it through.
So.

1371
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:06,200
So even though I'm under fire
now.

1372
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:07,520
Everyone's, everyone's
confidence.

1373
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:12,040
What's your instrument?
Oh, mate, I am.

1374
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:14,240
I'm aiming the spotlight.
Yeah, yeah.

1375
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:17,200
Because I'm interviewing people
and I'm saying, hey, let's,

1376
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:22,080
let's look at you and blind you
for an hour and a bit and let's,

1377
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:24,640
you know, let's, let's get you
to move over this way kind of

1378
01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:25,600
thing.
I think that's me.

1379
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:28,400
So you've got an orchestra with
three pianos and then a

1380
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:31,560
separate, like under the pit
orchestra with me just snacking

1381
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:33,000
on whatever.
Let's say.

1382
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:36,200
Yeah, I reckon a, you know what
bass guitar, because I so rarely

1383
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:38,120
get to play it and it's so fun
for me.

1384
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:40,200
And you can be silly on it.
Yes.

1385
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:42,240
You want to be the bass.
Devastatingly sad.

1386
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:44,480
You can get a good rhythm going.
It's fun.

1387
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:47,360
And you're not needing every
song to get yeah, I'm a bass

1388
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:49,480
guitar, but you can't see me.
I'm under the pit.

1389
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:52,000
OK, so we're the final answer.
That's.

1390
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:54,360
Yeah, I did, yeah.
Brilliant.

1391
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:56,280
Well, that's our first bass
guitar.

1392
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:57,480
So we do.
We do need that.

1393
01:02:57,480 --> 01:02:59,080
So we appreciate you being up to
the task.

1394
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:02,400
Now we're coming to the the
segment shamelessly ripped off

1395
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:05,920
Diary of a CEO.
I call it Diary of a POET.

1396
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:09,240
This is a question left for you
by my former guests.

1397
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:12,400
This question comes from
Antoinette and Annabella Liu,

1398
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:15,320
Josh.
What is the main technique that

1399
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:17,760
you like to play with in
writing?

1400
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:20,440
Oh, that's fun.
I don't think there's any good

1401
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:22,800
poets playing with only one
favorite main technique.

1402
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:24,400
It takes like so many to make a
poem.

1403
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:29,640
Love a little pause.
You heard of this imagery?

1404
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:32,440
Love when there's imagery.
Yes.

1405
01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:34,680
I like to compare things to soup
quite a lot.

1406
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:37,680
That's not a technique, That's
just I like soup.

1407
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:41,000
I like, you know, every time you
bring up food, you're playing of

1408
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:43,640
sound, sight, smell and touch.
You're playing with the sensors

1409
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:46,080
favorite.
I would be very bad at picking a

1410
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:53,320
favorite to play with.
I think I do like taking an

1411
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:57,440
audience through different
emotions to the same in the same

1412
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:00,480
thread where you know you can
bring them into a topic with

1413
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:03,240
laughter and then you can get
into some heavy stuff without

1414
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:05,320
without making them feel
dreadful.

1415
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:07,360
Hopefully, I hope.
Yeah.

1416
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:11,040
I think, I think it's the way
you can manage and play with the

1417
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:13,320
listeners feelings.
I think that's a very fun thing

1418
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:15,320
to play with.
Feelings and expectations.

1419
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:17,520
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I think, yeah, you've really

1420
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:20,760
showed that in like the pieces
that you've you've done today

1421
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:22,680
and and in a lot of your work.
So I think you've spoiled.

1422
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:24,640
Thank you.
I'm I'm trying to.

1423
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:27,640
Good.
Now, Josh, you have the large

1424
01:04:27,640 --> 01:04:32,480
responsibility of leaving a
question for my next guest.

1425
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:37,160
Yes, hello, next guest.
My question for you is what

1426
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:39,920
treats are part of your creative
process?

1427
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:42,680
When you sit down to write or
prepare something, what treats

1428
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:44,120
go with that?
I don't mind whether they're

1429
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:47,960
food or substances or anything
at all, but it's sensory.

1430
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:49,800
It is something you take in
through your senses.

1431
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:52,520
It could be snacks, it could be
sound, anything.

1432
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:55,560
What are your treats that go
with your writing and creative

1433
01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:57,480
process?
Brilliance.

1434
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:00,400
Oh, now, now I'm feeling hungry
because yeah, everyone's got

1435
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:02,440
yeah, I think everyone's got
something different, you know?

1436
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:05,760
Do you go for the the crunch of
a grain wave?

1437
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:09,040
You know, do you go for the, the
soft pliable?

1438
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:11,680
Did you go for hummus?
Yeah.

1439
01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:13,960
Do you go for the soft, pliable
skin of a Jelly baby?

1440
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:16,560
Yeah, the treats going into this
podcast, I just want people to

1441
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:20,160
know, like on the table are
these hummus flavoured crackers

1442
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:22,560
that are then being dipped into
more hummus.

1443
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:24,920
Wait, what?
Is that true?

1444
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:28,400
Yeah, look at the side, it says
hummus to go protein.

1445
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:31,160
Okay, yeah, yeah, okay, let's
run with it because that's

1446
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:33,280
that's the funnier idea.
Did I get that wrong?

1447
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:37,080
I read hummus high protein homes
to go so apparently.

1448
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:39,880
It's high protein hummus with
with kind of garden.

1449
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:40,960
Did you crackers?
Did you?

1450
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:43,280
Is that a description of the
whole box?

1451
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:45,880
I'm so wrong, sorry.
It is crackers with hummus that

1452
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:47,680
is the treats feel in this
podcast.

1453
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:51,400
Add a little hedgehog slice and
many espressos before I came

1454
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:53,200
here.
Should I be taking a picture of

1455
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:56,160
this and saying this is my post
workout hummus considering it is

1456
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:59,400
such high protein?
I know you should just enjoy a

1457
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:03,480
snack.
I mean, I reckon, I reckon you

1458
01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:06,520
can just be like, hey, I think I
did something cool.

1459
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:09,800
But like, sneaking it into
something else is so annoying to

1460
01:06:09,800 --> 01:06:10,120
me.
Yeah.

1461
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:16,080
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Josh Cake, this has been

1462
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:18,640
amazing.
If people want to know more

1463
01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:22,080
about you, follow your work in
all the spheres that we've

1464
01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:24,720
discussed today and and all your
adventures around the world.

1465
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:26,000
Where's the best place for them
to head?

1466
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:29,560
They should head to a doctor and
get their head checked.

1467
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:34,400
No, fine.
They you can find me on

1468
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:37,600
Instagram.
Look, I'm at Josh Cake Music,

1469
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:40,840
but there's like poetry and
music and comedy and whatever

1470
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:42,960
random stuff I put up there that
that's a good spot.

1471
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:45,240
Or I've got my website,
joshcake.com.

1472
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:47,880
But yeah, Instagram's where I'm
actually active.

1473
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:51,920
And as I know full well, if you
play your cards right on the

1474
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:54,960
website, you might just end up
with a cool exclusive shirt.

1475
01:06:55,120 --> 01:06:57,720
So go, go take a look and poke
around.

1476
01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:00,200
There's some silly stuff there.
There's a void.

1477
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:02,400
Keep it, keep it.
I know you said you wanted to

1478
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:03,880
take it down, but keep it.
OK?

1479
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:08,520
Josh, you've got one more piece
for us before we we wrap up.

1480
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:13,400
Oh yeah, And how?
How long have we got?

1481
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:17,480
How am I doing for time?
Imagine you had one day left to

1482
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:18,880
live.
Imagine.

1483
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:21,320
Would you pray?
Would you forgive?

1484
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:24,360
Would you tell everyone how you
feel sober?

1485
01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:27,440
Run around until you keel over,
Cook the final meal over?

1486
01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:31,400
Think because death was real, or
would you carry on as normal?

1487
01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:34,880
Imagine you had one week left to
live.

1488
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:39,440
Would you quit that grind that
you hate, issue writs to divide

1489
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:42,840
your estate, wish your wits on a
wide contemplating of pits that

1490
01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:46,240
your mind can't escape?
Or would you sit with a kind,

1491
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:49,720
honest mate, chew the grit and
the rind of your fate?

1492
01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:57,080
Or would you carry on as normal?
Imagine you had one year.

1493
01:07:57,120 --> 01:07:59,600
No.
Imagine you had one.

1494
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:03,920
Imagine the permanent Arctic
frost is melting into the sea.

1495
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:06,360
How am I doing?
For time, Seven years.

1496
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:10,400
OK, so I'm dying. 200 species
vanish every day.

1497
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:12,520
So hot the cows won't touch
their hay.

1498
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:16,240
Here, the scientist here, the
grazier here, Iceland who wrote

1499
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:19,600
a plaque to monarch their first
lost glacier.

1500
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:22,520
And more will follow.
But what's crazier is that we

1501
01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:26,080
all know it's all for profit.
We marched to our deaths so that

1502
01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:29,040
someone can make money off it,
line their coffers with our

1503
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:30,920
stolen breaths.
Make me an offer.

1504
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:35,120
How am I doing for time?
We all know that you and I are

1505
01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:38,080
being killed on burnt ground for
a couple of dollar bills and

1506
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:41,080
I'll earned pounds.
That koalas just got listed as

1507
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:44,120
endangered because the states
sold their trees to the first

1508
01:08:44,120 --> 01:08:45,439
scrub.
Who'd pay them that?

1509
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:47,680
When the Prime Minister of
Australia meets, the Prime

1510
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:51,240
Minister of Tonga looks a
weeping leader in the eye and

1511
01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:54,800
says your islands will have to
go underwater because I can't

1512
01:08:54,800 --> 01:08:58,600
let my coal industry die.
So lead your people to the

1513
01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:00,800
slaughter.
We will burn for money and we

1514
01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:03,920
will drown for money.
And some of us already have.

1515
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:09,359
How am I doing for time?
Imagine you had seven years left

1516
01:09:09,359 --> 01:09:11,319
to live.
Would your day-to-day seem

1517
01:09:11,319 --> 01:09:14,399
strange?
What would you change if you

1518
01:09:14,399 --> 01:09:16,120
knew?
And we'd do that.

1519
01:09:16,120 --> 01:09:18,600
A powerful few would end your
world for profit and it would

1520
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:20,319
take all of us working together
to block it.

1521
01:09:20,319 --> 01:09:23,800
Would you fight for your life to
stop it, or would you carry on

1522
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:27,080
as normal?
My psyche says it's normal to

1523
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:29,680
feel distressed and to fight for
my future with every oz.

1524
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:32,880
But she also says that I need to
rest and water my roots between

1525
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:35,399
the bouts.
So I'm trying to savor

1526
01:09:35,399 --> 01:09:39,319
everything.
Every last bite of fruit, every

1527
01:09:39,319 --> 01:09:42,200
hand, every tune.
Not a glance to minute, every

1528
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:44,960
word shared with you.
But despite all this beauty that

1529
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:50,120
question drills through, how am
I doing for time?

1530
01:09:54,320 --> 01:09:58,200
Wow, Definitely some great stuff
to chew on there, Josh.

1531
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:02,160
Now wherever you are in the
world, yeah, if you see a show

1532
01:10:02,280 --> 01:10:06,360
that Josh is is headlining, you
need to get there to see the

1533
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:08,160
best stuff.
That's that's all I can say.

1534
01:10:08,480 --> 01:10:10,600
Josh Cake.
It's been an absolute privilege

1535
01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:13,280
having you on the show.
Thank you so much for thinking

1536
01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:15,280
with us and slamming with us.
Thank you very much.

1537
01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:17,000
It was so fun.
You're a very fun host.

1538
01:10:17,480 --> 01:10:20,400
You're very expressive.
If you ever get on this podcast,

1539
01:10:20,640 --> 01:10:23,320
this guy's face when you're
reading a poem, it's the whole

1540
01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:24,720
audience.
It's so good.

1541
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:27,520
I throw hands, but I'm not, I'm
not fighting.

1542
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:28,600
I'm just, they're just out
there.

1543
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:30,480
Very expressive.
Thank you very much.

1544
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:41,840
Wait, your big fans?
What's that all about?