Brandon Leake - The Slam Poet Who Won "America's Got Talent"

0:02 The Game of Thrones season finales ain't got nothing on this. Welcome to I Think Therefore I Slam, the podcast bringing you the best slam poetry and spoken word artist from Australia and beyond. My name is Andrew Rogerson, but I'm going to turn into John Bernthal for a second because let me tell you something. When you create seasonal content like I do, you are always looking for an absolute barn burner of a guest for your season finale. And my goodness, I have found a barn burner of a guest for everyone today. In his very own words, my guest today is the Season 15 winner of America's Got Talent. He's a seven time Telly Award winner, a Sovas Award winner, and an Emmy Award winner.

0:48 He's been a poetic performer, keynote speaker and workshop leader for over a decade, travelling locations such as New Zealand, Canada, Mexico, South Africa, and 42 U.S. states. He's collaborated with companies such as Meta, CBS, California Hospital Association, Good Morning America, the Golden State Warriors, the Sacramento Kings, and many others. His use of personal narrative with his gifting in poetic prose allows him to speak not merely to crowds but to their inner being, to connect one soul to another, to connect people to an intrinsic sense of communal humanity that is severely lacking in our world. He's a visionary whose words, but most importantly, whose actions, reflect his love of Christ, people, and the world. Brandon League.

1:36 Welcome to the show my friend. Oh absolutely hate BIOS but it's good. Why do you think we hate BIOS? Is it just? Is it just awkward to hear about yourself and your achievements? I think so. I think also it's just one of those things where like I used to be an an A high school English teacher. Do you guys call it secondary school there or high school? High school's fine, yeah. Yeah. And I've been to enough professional development things where, like the keynote speaker is pretty much just talking to sell their book. And they're hoping that everybody there is like, well, man, be so impressed by my bio that you'll come and buy the book afterward. And I'm like, no, I came here to do the work, get the bio out the way so that way I could just like, come up here and come talk to these people. That's what I would like to go do. Yeah, and everything else from there is a bonus, I guess. Like, if you did not know I want America's Got Talent, I would hope that what I give you, you would still be able to be like, man, that guy's really good.

2:33 And then in the aftermath, be like, yo, that makes sense. Like that boy was nice. Yeah, yeah. You're not just a buy on the page, you're jumping off the page as a as a full person. But no, I'm excited to be here, man. I look forward to actually getting the chance to meet you in person. Oh, for sure. Now you've been on Ellen, you've been on Kelly Clarkson. So what exactly inspired you to come and be a part of this little this little slam poetry podcast happening here today? I'm in to. Be be honest, you shot the invite. And I have a love for spoken word, man, like spoken word has been such a great home for me. I, I care a lot about the community of people who are actively trying to make spoken word, not just a like an art form that people can find home at. But I'm really interested in it's viability for people to find a career in, for those who just want to write poetry for the sake of being able to be heard, for sharing their feelings and having catharsis, go share. Go do what you do.

3:33 Don't pursue. Like the same thing I'm chasing after. But for those who want to be able to make spoken words, something where it could be a halftime performance at the Super Bowl and people not be like, why is poetry at the Super Bowl or like at the Grammys? It's not one of the awards that happens off camera, but it happens during the main time. I'm really interested in that. And in order to do that, we have to support those who are doing the work. And you are doing the work, good Sir. So I want to support you in doing the good work. Oh, thank you, Brandon. That's very humbling. And look, you know, there are, there are many eyes on you because you're very much leading the way with showing, you know, where, where slam poetry can really pop up on the, the world stage, I suppose.

4:19 I appreciate that trying man. Good stuff. Well, you've come with three of your finest pieces to showcase to us today, so we'd love to dive into piece #1 if you wanted to give us any like preamble to get us all hyped up for it, you're welcome to. Or you can just dive right in, man. I'll leave it up to you. Yeah, so this first one is kind of the introduction poem I do at a lot of schools for students to have an understanding of who I am. For all of your audience who may not know me, this is like the best way to get to know me in about like 4 minutes. So this poem is entitled Steps. So here we go, Steps to being Brandon Leek 1. You must first be named Brandon Leek and then two.

4:59 You must be born on May 4th 1992 with an extremely lard head. Sorry about that mom 3. Be born to a mother who has a heart of gold and just pray that he has the Midas touch Four. Be born and raised in Southside Stockton in a cave full of hard rocks that when pressed, become gems. 5 Be born of brown skin. This excessive amount of melanin will surely dictate much of your future. Be sure to remember these steps. 6 Be born with all of your limbs and then remove one. My fault. No, just remove your father. No surprises here. If we're back to step 57. Have abandonment issues. These will surely rear their ugly heads later. 8 Cling to your mother.

5:43 She is the only form of consistency that you have ever known. Be sure to push all other men in her life away. She she does not leave you just like your father did. Refer back to step 69. Go to middle school, get yourself a girlfriend. And you know that girl we were just talking about like 5 seconds ago didn't work out. But here's what we'll do is that Brandon just hand out to heart to girls in a desperate attempt to not feel so lonely anymore for back to step 711. Repeat step 10 continuously well pray for brighter days to cast large shadows for your fears to hide in 13. Were masked to make you far more tolerable to the world 14. Don't forget to have real complicated relationship with your stepfather. Argue with him repeatedly until these this become your only form of expression 15.

6:30 Bucket little dude, I thought I told you real men don't get depression. 16 Dream of doing what no one in your family has ever done before and then go do it. 17 Go off to college try try to reinvent yourself to be the cool guy you always hope to being when you were in high school. 18 Understand that there is no escaping reality. You are who you always have been no matter the location. 19 Face loneliness. But if I'm being honest, I don't like hiding behind metaphors anymore, so I'm going to be real. When I was four years old, my 8 1/2 month old sister, Danielle Marie Gibson, she died in the car next to me due to heart failure. So death is not something I adopted, but more so grew myself into.

7:14 And I can't help but think that my roots still last 6 feet deep alongside her. In the my my my senior year of high school, my grandfather, he died of lung and liver cancer. Rushing to the hospital next to his wife of 50 years in a graduation ceremony with one seat left empty, never left me feeling so numb inside. And then my best friend, my brother Bernard Daniels, my freshman year of college, he drowned in a levy two blocks behind our old neighborhood, running away from a rival gang, and I was 200 miles too far north to ever tell my brother goodbye. 20I attended 18 funerals by the time I hit my 18th birthday. 21 I wake up in the morning and I look myself in the mirror and I see a reflection of a stranger, this guy who I know resides inside.

8:00 But I'm too afraid. I'm too scared and I'm far too fearful to finally show the world who I actually AM. 22232425 There are no more steps, just a lot of questions like who is Brandon week anyways? Lovely. Thank you for introducing us to yourself, Brandon. You know, through the form that you found such such strength in that was, that was wonderful. Thank you, I appreciate it. Now, of course, you know, a lot of us would have known you from your time when America's Got Talent, but I'm sure like many, you know, success stories, there would have been a story before that story.

8:46 So that's what I want to dive into right now. Brandon, what is your origin story of, I guess starting to share this work of yours in a in a public forum I suppose. Yeah, so I used to write poems in middle School for Girls who were cute. Like, that's like where the journey really started back in like the mid 2000s. You know, nuance is not something that teenagers did well. And so I didn't share them. And I stopped because I was playing basketball and basketball was my, my key focus. It was everything to me. And so I didn't really do much of it in high school except for at my small group at church. There's a woman by the name of Blair Wingo who was a part of this movement called Passion for Christ Movement. And I saw a poem of hers and it really, it really touched me. And so I wrote a poem to share at A at an event. And I opened up for this Christian rapper at our church. And I was like, oh, man, you know, this will be cool. And so I shared the poem.

9:45 People were like, oh, man, you did such a great job, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm never doing that again. And then I went off to college and my best friend passed away. And for me, basketball was the place I took all my pain. I was able to put a physical address on it and say, Oh yeah, I could dribble this away. I could physical this away. I could I could do all these things and make it feel less. And nothing helped it feel less until I started writing. And there is an open mic that was happening at the school because of poet by the name of Michael Bourne, who became like, my poetry muse for a long time.

10:33 He was coming to campus. And I just sat down and I said, hey, oh God, man, if you really got something for me with this art, give me something to share. And I wrote a poem for my boy. Bernard sent me like 15 minutes, and it just all fell out of me. And then when I went and shared it, I got this, like, standing ovation. And that was the first time I felt like genuinely validated for like me as a person, not just what I do. And so like, that's what started the art. What continued it was after after that I played one more year.

11:14 College basketball felt like God was calling me to leave ball aside. So I left it alone and then started a collective of artists on campus entitled Call to Move. So we were the weirdos on campus who did art and we would do these open mics. And the first open mic that I that we hosted had about like 12 people and like 6 or seven of them were performers. So it wasn't like we had like a gang of people like just big killing there. It was like, no, there's like us performers, the lady, the two people who are working at this coffee shop, and then like 3 randoms who weren't here for the event but they just came and got coffee. By the time that I finished my senior year and we are hosting our last open mic, we were having events with like over 150 people.

12:04 There. Wow, magic. It was in that moment that I realized on my Oh Man art is a bridge. Like, it connects one soul to the next and allows for us to be able to see people in a way that we may not be able to see them otherwise. Saw people because I went to a very white college. It was also a Christian School. And so they have bad, like these very strict conservative viewpoints. And so like, you know, I was able to talk about black issues that in regular conversation, these folks would never be willing to hear. But within the form of art they were. They were able to somehow digest it in a more palatable way. Like that's, that's like the journey before the AGT before like becoming a real slam poet in Sacramento and you know, going to I Whips and doing the world poetry slam thing before tours and all the stuff.

13:01 It was just a kid who was mourning the loss of his friend, who then started a community of other people who were mourning whatever they were feeling. Wow, fantastic. And and what does what does called to move, you know this group or organization that you started? What does that look like nowadays? Man I wish it looked like me and a bunch of artists doing really cool stuff but it don't. It's AI love poets. Poets are super fickle and don't show up on time, so. Reputation. I called the move as an organization that I currently run pretty much Dolo, and it's a nonprofit where we do literacy based workshops around the country. And so we go to schools and we run workshops with students to do social emotional learning through artistic creation. And so students learn different literary devices and different poetic forms while working on poems that are actively about the dreams they would like to chase. And so I've done it as far as New Zealand and as close as two blocks from my house.

14:10 So Australian schools, if you would like me to come, holla at your boy. There it is. There it is. As someone who you know, I'm, I'm running a little mini workshop in a high school for the first time later this year and I have no idea what I'm doing. So I could certainly take some pointers from, from an organization like like yours, because I mean, what a great opportunity. I'm sure you get all types in terms of you get those who really take hold of what you're doing and others who, who maybe start off not being interested and then they end up loving it or whatever. Have you seen, you know, what's it like when you see a young person in the classroom really grasp onto what you're what you're getting across?

14:53 Yeah, man. So I'm developing something now of a after school program for the really passionate ones, because when I go to a school I it's not like they just give me the really passionate kids who want to do it. No, I'm with every student. That's it. And I love that because what I want them to. I don't care if students become the next great poet, the next great writer. I care that they learn the skill sets so they can emotionally express themselves in ways that they don't have the capacity to do currently. You and I both know we've all had thoughts that if we were to share them out loud, we would lose our jobs, We would lose friendships and people we care about. And it's like, yeah, I, I hold those in.

15:36 And as adults, we figure out healthy ways to get those out. But teenagers don't always have the capacity for that. So teaching them tools and mechanisms. I love seeing the light bulb go off for a student who was like, poetry, what, what am I going to do with poetry? And then they hear me and they're like, that's poetry. That's what that can be. And then it all clicks and they're like, oh, I want that. And it, it also brings me a lot of joy to see a student who's like, man, poetry ain't for me. But like, you know, you were saying some real stuff up there. So I appreciate it. And I'm like, yeah, the dog. Like poetry wasn't for me. If if I came to my high school, when I was in high school, I would have been you trying to fit in with my basketball teammates, Like this dude was weird. And then I would have went home and been like. Yeah, I think it's it's always interesting when you yeah, you see a little bit of yourself in the in the next generation and you go what what would have been the approach or the words that I would have needed to really grasp the vision or, or whatever of, of what you're trying to get across? Brandon, I want to talk a little bit about, you know, zooming in on your victory on America's Got Talent. So obviously season 15 was a weird season. It was the COVID season.

16:52 It was, you know, no studio audience, a little bit, a little bit eerie, but you came on with your audition and you you really made an impression on on the judges. So how he was there, Sophia was there, Simon was there and how he ended up giving you the Golden buzzer. I just want to know, like, what was going through your mind when you got that initial golden buzzer and how, how did that moment, I don't know, change the trajectory of everything for you? So there's a lot going into that day. At the time I had just transitioned to a new job. I was working as an academic advisor at a Community College, so A2 year school.

17:34 I knew that I had this audition and as originally scheduled for Monday and I remember sitting in the office of my Co workers and COVID was in Italy. It wasn't in the US at the time. And we were like, oh man, well, it ain't going to make it all the way over here. You know what I mean? Like it's we're all the way in California. We're going to be just fine. I'm like, it may hit East Coast, but we'll be good. And then I got a phone call at like 334 o'clock and it was my producer on the show and he said, Brandon, we have COVID concerns. If you want to be on the show, you need to be here in LA tomorrow at 8:00 AM or else you can't be on the show. Now for those who don't understand, I don't know how big Australia is to drive all the way across Australia.

18:19 Have you ever done it? No, but it's it's a big deal and you want to make sure you know what you're doing or you'll die in the Outback. So yeah, it's a big ordeal. To get from California from top to bottom, driving at like 80 miles an hour would take you about 16 hours to drive, right? And so I live about 7 hours from LA where they were filming. And my daughter had just been born like 13 days before I got that phone call. So my wife was still very postpartum, still healing. And I, it was like my second day back at work. And so I told, I called my wife and I'm like, hey, this is what they're talking about.

19:02 Said I tell them no. And you know, just stay home. She's like, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. You really need to go. So I came home, I watched. I watched the baby let my wife get a nap. She didn't wake up until like 9:30 PM. And she's like, Brandy, you were supposed to leave at like 7. I'm like, you needed the rest. It's OK. Like your mom's going to be here in like 10 minutes. Soon as she's here, I'll tap out. And so I hop in my car and then I leave at like 10. And then I take my drive out to Socal and there's this mountain range that you have to drive through to get to the actual audition. And my car dies on the freeway.

19:43 And I just sit there and I'm like, Lord, just let me get there. Like just let me get there and we'll take care of the rest. I just need to get there. I sit on that side of the road for like an hour and then my car starts and then hit the downhill and I'm like, cool, like this should this should be fine. I should be able to make it. I get to the hotel like 6:30 in the morning and sleep for like 30 minutes in the car, and I don't end up performing until like 5:00 PM. So it was a long day. And then I got that Golden Buzzer. And to be honest with you, getting the Golden Buzzer felt better than winning. And it was because of how unprecedented it was at the time, like, no poet had ever been on the show yet alone gotten a Golden buzzer.

20:39 And so it was like, and also at that stage of the show, there's no guarantee that I would even make television, right? So it was like, oh, yeah, like, even if I'm good enough, they could move me on and then behind the scenes, cut me off the show. And then I still not make it. So like, only way to guarantee that I get seen is getting this golden buzzer. And so getting the golden buzzer was, it was significantly life changing. And then after winning the show, I like to phrase it like this, winning the show didn't change anything about me because I already had a really hard sense of urgency. I treated poetry like sport.

21:22 I gave it everything I had. It just gave people a bigger window to see all the stuff I was doing. Yeah, for sure. And so a lot more eyes were like, oh man, like Brandon works really hard. Brandon's doing a lot of stuff with schools. Wait. Oh, Brandon reached out to us like 2 years ago to do work with our school. Why did we say no? Oh, we didn't know him. All right. Cool. So yeah, bring Brandon in. We're looking for a speaker and we haven't had spoken word ever. Meta, you want to bring Brandon in? Cool. Let's do the whole thing. I won an Emmy with the Golden State Warriors and it was because I did a poem that was the opening track for their games for the 75th year anniversary of the Warriors existed.

22:03 And so they were like, Hey, we want spoken word to highlight like our team. And so I'm like, cool, I got you. And so like they gave me the theme, the plot, the the characters they wanted to be woven into the story and then boom, that that's what happens. It didn't change a lot about who I was as a person it, but it did change the circumstances that I got the chance to have opportunities for. Man, I love that there's so much like additional drama to the story. It just adds to it so much. I can, I can see that that that moment meant so much to you. And look, I'll be, I'll be honest, Brandon, I can be quite cynical about like reality TV, you know what I mean? I've had friends who've been on the the local version of like the voice and beauty and the geek and things like this. And so, you know, I understand that there that there are elements of it that are, you know, for lack of a better word, manufactured.

23:00 But when I saw the footage of you getting the Golden buzzer and winning, and this was, you know, I, I said to you before the interview, this is five years ago. My dad's just sending me a clip saying, hey, have you heard of this guy? He just won America's Got Talent as a slam poet. You should, you should check out this Brandon guy. I was like, OK, the piece that you shared in your, in your audition was, was very, a very moving piece about your, your late sister. And I know that seemed to have a genuine effect on Sophia, who, who seemed to have had some personal loss of her own. And even even, you know, the great Simon Cowell, who has this reputation and as you know, the ultimate hard ass. I, I, and I think he said something like he didn't even want to necessarily give a, a judgement of the performance.

23:44 He just wanted to thank you for performing. And I thought that that was quite a very, a very real and, and genuine moment, you know, in a, in a type of television that that can sometimes come across very, very differently if you're comfortable talking about it. Brandon, you know, like I said, you, you shared this piece about losing your, your late sister and you, and you've had some, some loss in your life. How has those those losses kind of shaped the way that you use poetry as, I guess, a tool for healing for both yourself and and the wider world? Yeah. So I'll speak to the particular reason why I did that on the show as well as like the general use of like those types of things and speaking to like general audiences.

24:29 So for general audiences, man, like, well, actually the show 1 leads into the general audience. I used that poem because I asked myself, what is an emotion that everybody can relate to? That like is a universal thing that no matter who I'm talking to, if I were to mention this, they would be able to, whether it be their sister or brother or their auntie or uncle or their mom or dad, grandma, grandpa, relative, cousin, sibling, whatever. When people heard my poem about my sister, they didn't hear a poem about my sister. They heard a poem about somebody. They left. Yeah.

25:09 They place it became a universal stamp of like, oh, I see this person and what you're talking about. And that was the powerful nature of those poems. And so when I'm talking about it to a general audience, the purpose of these poems is to kind of make sure that people don't feel as alone. Because what what will happen is people will live on islands that are so close to another island, but they don't realize the other islands right there. Wow, yeah. It's like, oh man, like a few feet of bridge can really make you feel less lonely, but many people don't. Many people fear building the bridge out of a fear of not being accepted, out of ignorance that they don't know the other person's that close.

25:55 And it's like, Oh no, as I mentioned earlier, art being a bridge, art connects people and it allows people to see oh man, like because during some of my sets, I'll even ask you like, how many of you all can relate to something I just said? And then tons of hands will go up and I'm like, how many of you felt alone in what you were experiencing? And those same hands will go up. And I'm like, you now can understand that you are not going through this by yourself. So when you walk out of here, if you feel like you have no one, go find someone. And I promise you, you will have someone. So yeah, man, like that's that's the intention behind the art is to build bridges between.

26:40 That is so beautiful and profound, Brandon. I really appreciate you giving giving language to that. And I think you're right. I think something about something about the human experience, you know, can very easily lead us to isolation, individualism, thinking that, you know, the pain or whatever that we experience is so singular and unique to ourselves. And it's we. And I think we, we need help. Like we need help through, through art and through community to break down those, those illusions and those lies. Do you know what I mean? So I, I think so many people are appreciative that you've used your, your experiences in that area to break down those, those barriers with people.

27:29 Yeah. I. Appreciate the compliment. Appreciate the compliment. I want to touch on, I guess what everything that happened after, you know, your, your victory. So in terms of I, I guess the, the, the fame side of thing, I, I don't really have another word for it, but I'm just curious, you know, what parts of, of fame or greater exposure or whatever you want to call it, what parts of it have been kind of unexpected or challenging? You know, especially coming from the poetry world where you know, it can be, you know, it can be quite insular and quite, quite small. I don't know what's it been like. I'll start with the funny stuff and then I'll get into the deeper stuff.

28:10 Sure. Poets think that, like, I got like carte blanche to like Denzel Washington and stuff. Now you don't. And they're like, no, heavens no. They're like, oh man, you know, like, oh, Brandon, you know, you want to like, you know, call Hollywood, get them to put, you know, put you in these movies and stuff like that. And I'm like, what do you think I am? Who do you think like? Like, what do you think I am after winning the show? No, I don't have that opportunity to just look on the phone and be like, hey, Spielberg, dawg, you think I should be the next leading actor in this big no.

28:52 And so it it's always really funny because I'll talk to police and I'll be like, oh, man, you know, like you Hollywood now. And I'm like, my bills don't say that like these about this mortgage payment, you know, this, this net 30 waiting for the school to send me the check in 30 days. Don't say that to me. I'm like, am I living comfortably by all means? But I'm like, is it like what people really thought it was absolutely not. So that's probably the funniest part. I didn't have any cousins or nothing pop out the woodwork like, Oh, let me get a dollar. No, like I didn't have that issue. I had a bunch of poets who were like, oh man, you famous. I'm like, yeah, I guess so. I don't.

29:35 I don't. I don't feel that. But the hardest part that I think many people just don't understand is that it's really hollow, though a phrase that a rapper named Lecrae said is if you live by their acceptance, you'll die by their rejection. And that's really what it became. I was like, oh man, I felt this immense weight and pressure to have to carry spoken word on my back, to have to go be like, oh man, I have to run this baton as far as I possibly can. And I wanted to, and I still do. I want to get spoken words so close to the finish line. Like I want to get it there so that way it could be as respected as hip hop, respected as film and respected as jazz and all these other art forms. I want people to finally, I don't want poets to be at a venue and be like, oh man, you know, like $50 was a great payout.

30:27 Poets to be able to be like, Oh no, you know, we're negotiating 5 figures, 6 figure deals on a consistent basis. I want poets to be able to make a living off the art. And I was sitting in the parking lot of a hotel getting ready to go do the Ellen Show for the first time where I had like a real emotional breakdown. And I was like, I, I just felt this pain in my, in my chest from all of this weight that I felt I'd been carrying. And honestly, I just, I kind of sat back and I prayed. I was like, Yo, God, like, what is happening right now? And he was like. I have a journey for you. That is for you and the journey I have you on is not backpacking a culture.

31:11 You have a role in it. You get the chance to do your part, but you're not the main character, you're not the lead. You don't have to go save the day. You get the chance to just go be Brandon, 'cause I wanted, I wanted all of it. I wanted poets to respect me. And as anybody who's ever done art knows, not every if everybody likes you, nobody likes you. And so I'm like, man, I want. I want the OG's to respect my craft. I want the new people to look up to me. I want my current peers to be like, man, he's nice. I want Hollywood to see me and say, oh, he's investable. I want him to come and be a part of all the stuff that we're doing.

31:53 I want these doors and all these things to open up as I was. I was getting bits and pieces of it, but I wasn't getting the whole pie. And I'm like, oh, man, like what's wrong? And the reality was I wasn't giving enough energy or attention to anything. And all the things that I was really chasing after were all just empty shells of just seeking external validation for something that is, I didn't show up to poetry to get validated from other people. Started to poetry, 'cause I wanted to be heard and be I wanted to be heard and be healed. And I lost the plot somewhere in the middle of it being about scores, people liking it and people complimenting my work. And it's like, Oh yeah, that don't matter. That don't really I got to say Brandon, I think. That's one of the best breakdowns of I guess, Yeah, that experience of coming to terms of, yeah, like I said, increase notoriety.

32:54 But what does that even mean? You know, and maybe it not being what you thought it would be like the same way you were talking about how it's kind of cringey when you hear your bio. Like, I'm sure like so many artists, you, you just kind of want to be in the trenches doing the work. It's the it's the other external stuff. It's, it's the puff pieces or whatever that tend to, to get in the way and that get us, you know, maybe navel gazing a little bit too much or maybe judging our work a little bit too much or, or like you said, looking for external validation, which is so fickle. I mean, you know, I'm sure winning America's Got Talent was great. You know, we all know that the show kicks on to a new season like the the next the next year. Like it just kind of keeps going. The the wheel keeps turning, I suppose. Doesn't mean that it didn't mean anything. You know, it doesn't mean that it's not a a big part of your life.

33:45 But I think it messes with a lot of people in terms of, yeah, just how fickle that whole that whole thing can be. I used to think that like doing SLAM and stuff would be something that like a tool that I could use to like dominate other people and show how good I was at something. And I kind of had some experiences where I had to eat some humble pie. It was a really great experience because it taught me that no, I actually don't want that. I actually want to be like, I don't want to be the guy. I want to be part of the tapestry of like whatever's happening in my city in like SLAM or my country or the world.

34:26 Like that's why I do this. This is why I'm connecting with people from all over the country. So I appreciate it that the soul of an artist goes through trials when it's, when it gets, when it gets exposed to all this stuff. And I, I appreciate you being so transparent about how you've handled it, how you've, you've stayed true to yourself, to, to your faith and to what's really important to you through that. So thank you, no problems. I want to know. Brandon, what do you believe poetry can do that other forms of communication can't? I know you said that you, your vision is to see it achieve the same level of of recognition as, as as music, as as film, as, as other forms of art.

35:12 What do you think positions poetry, performance poetry uniquely in that space? I think the beauty of poetry. Is that it could be in any space at any time. I think that's. Something that most. Art forms can't do right. Like poetry can be in a venue of five people and be just as effective as a venue of tent out. Like comedy can't do that. Like if you have three people in a room and you have a comedian, it's hard, right? It's hard when one of them is heckling you. You know what I mean? Because the. Whole concept of comedy is you get the chance to get this full group involved in this laughter and then they all they all buy into the bit and it's easier with more people. With music.

35:56 Like you can you can rock a crowd with a few people in the room, but we all know it feel different when the concerts full versus when the concerts have empty. And with the film, you have so many, there's so many barriers to entry with like money, finance, editing, skill set and all this other stuff. The cool part about spoken word? Is spoken word could be a film, spoken word could be a full concert, spoken word could be a play. Spoken word could just be me, no microphone standing on the side of the street corner. And my goal for spoken word is to get it to take the next leap where it's not abandoning all the things we do currently. It's just adding on like I want to do. I have a slam that I'm going to do next year sometime. I don't know when, but I'm going to put up a good prize for it. It's going to be called set wars and I'm going to pick 8 poets and I'm going to be like, hey, you're going to be competing against each other with a 15 minute set each. You get the chance.

37:02 There's no prop fouls. You get the chance to put on stage whatever you want. We'll have a bunch of different stuff available for you to pick. You set the stage, utilize your spoken word poetry and accompaniment with this, with this set piece to be able to bring this thing to life as beautifully as you can. Because I think that it can be that. Because I think that that's another iteration of what spoken word can be. I have a short film called Complexity in which a lot of the dialogue is cut out and replaced with spoken word poetry. And we won like 62 awards around the world with it, right? And I'm like, Oh yeah. Like spoken word translates everywhere like. It's an art.

37:45 Form that translates everywhere your favorite artists love spoken word they steal from spoken word they just. Don't do it, because they don't. Pay their bills. Wow. Yeah, no. Thanks. Thanks for that summary. And that that's, you know, that event that you're putting together it, it kind of Harkins back to something that that I think Def Jam kind of used to do a little bit a little bit like that. I don't think they're they're around doing that so much. But yeah, I think you're right. I think when it's firing on all cylinders, it can be just as compelling, if not more compelling than the other, you know, art forms that are that are so revered.

38:25 So it's great to to see that you're developing some ideas around that. And this is a. Plug and I'm unashamed of it. Like February 7th of 2026. I am doing but what I feel to be probably my most adventurous piece of work. It is myself. It is a 70 piece orchestra. It is a nine person band. No, it's a ten person band, a nine person choir and 40 dancers for an album that I am going to be releasing. And it is a spoken word album with like 4 tracks of music, live performances, features, the whole 9. And I was explaining this to one of my friends, Sir Dominique out of Lancaster, Still, Pennsylvania.

39:10 And he's an awesome poet. And he was like, bro, this is for a poetry show, an orchestra, pan choir, these dancers, all these features. He's like, you sure this is a poetry show? And I'm like. Why can't? It be a poetry show, that's it. Yeah. Like. Poetry. Can. Do all of this. Like if we if. We're we're creative enough to pin these things. We could also be creative enough to say, oh, what I pinned is not finished work. It is the finished writing. Now how do I set the stage for it to be received as best as it can? Because the script is finished work. You then got to go film it.

39:51 That's it. So it's. Only stage one. Yeah, you feel me? So I'm like. I think a lot of Pulitzers are have mastered Stage 1. And now it's like, all right, cool. Stage 2. What what, what is stage 2 now? And we get the chance to set the stage for Stage 2 because if we were able to do something like that, like, like, I love Kendrick Lamar. He's my favorite artist. Kendrick take a lot from spoken word. Oh yeah. He does. And it's beautiful. And like his Super Bowl said, I could imagine, I know several poets, if I were to piece them together, could make a set. It's compelling because it'd be like, oh, yeah, dog, like we thought it out. We have the black revolutionary, a black chakra up there doing this thing.

40:36 Hey, love. It's the chance to go hit her spot doing the love piece and all these different, all these different people getting the chance to collectively add to it. It's like, oh, yeah, like we have it. We just like many poets would just be like, oh, yeah, man, just give me a mic and a stage. And it's like, well, people won't pay. I could won't pay you $2,000,000 for that unfortunately at this point. But if? We can, if we can design. It, well, it can look gorgeous. I can see it in my mind, Brandon. You're painting such a compelling picture. It's exciting. I'm getting excited. I've thought about it a lot like. This show that I'm about to do, we're going to have like there's, by the way, did you know I have a nationally televised TV show? I don't think I did tell.

41:20 Us more so, yeah, it's called family. Affair. It's an hour long televised special of eight of my poems. So if you go to The CW or actually I, I don't know. If it's available in. Australia, I would imagine so I will find it. If not then I have it illegally downloaded on my YouTube page so I will gladly send it your way so you can check it out. But yeah, like I have an animated poem on there. I have of like poems that I performed on stage, poems I performed in like set stages, poems I performed in my living room, like all into this beautiful amalgamation of a set. So I'll send it to you. But like, but yeah, yeah.

42:01 Like we're going to keep pushing these boundaries. Like that's the goal. Yeah. So you you've been. There, you've been there on the bleeding edge of of, yes, really seeing what it can do with, I guess a production budget behind it and the right people. So yeah, of course a Super Bowl show or whatever it ends up being is is the logical next step. I love it. Yeah, man, my next step is hopefully. Just performing at the Grammys, man, if we can get a spoken word performance at the Grammys and really make it shine and have people being like, oh, yo, like a poetry performance went like that viral like it would be, it would be killer. Well, they've got the category. Now, so it's it's just the logical next step is to to get a performance in there. Yeah, absolutely.

42:46 I think we're ready for piece #2 Brandon I got. You so this is a. New one actually. So forgive me, I will be reading, but are you a father? I'm not, no. OK. To all my. Parents out there, you'll be able to resonate. I have three children, 5 year old, 3 year old and eight-month old. So here we go. My kids asked. Daddy, can you play with me? And immediately, a litany of things I could be doing instead sprinted across my mind, said no. And to be honest, I don't know what I did out. Maybe it was the dishes.

43:31 That the sink had been babysitting for so long. Maybe it was the e-mail I swore I would send last week. Maybe it was the orphan clothes I left on my chair just waiting for a home to hang at. To be truthful, I have no clue what I did and I think that's the problem. Don't know what I did. But I know what I didn't do, and it's killing me to think that if this was my last shot, my last opportunity, that I may have owned it away for something that I don't even remember. And it is. And is it practical to always play on the ground with your children? No.

44:12 We're adults. We have things, responsibilities. And is it good for your mental health to subject yourself to the crazed whim of a 5 year old tyrant and her three-year old assistant as you navigate the complex legislation of underwater mermaid dog men that they just made-up? No. Is this back pain and. Memories worth it? Yes. Is the stretching of my imagination to a place it long since abandoned for more practical things worth it? Yes. Being a daddy is what I always wanted, and when my kids asked me to play, I can't always say yes, but I always regret saying that. Questioning.

44:53 If I'm missing. Out on the last time for the first time. So when my children wake up tomorrow, before they venture out to the big world of intergalactic tea parties and monster trucks that have real monsters for drivers, I'll do my bath stretches before they wake up. I have the ibuprofen next to a large glass of water for the mental wear on standby, and I'll be ready to answer the question. I've waited a lifetime, Daddy. Will you play with me? Oh wow. What a wonderful window into, yeah, the life of a parent. So, yeah, three kids under 6. That's, that's a big job, my friend. Love it.

45:43 Brandon, I'd love to touch on the topic of, of faith if we could. I know that you've been, you've been very open about your own faith really, really since day one and, and in all kind of public forums that you find yourself in. I'm always curious, how does kind of, I guess creativity and spirituality intersect in your life directly tied to each other? Like this gift that I have is because I come from a creative God, right? Like I get the privilege to just tap into a small piece of that divinity and spoken word as how would I phrase it? Yes, I mean spoken word.

46:26 Is filled with a bunch of people who have been immensely hurt by the church, who will want nothing to do with Christianity and have rightful frustration with a myriad of different hypocrisies and past judgments and all those things. Spoken word actually helped me better understand my faith in a very real way that allowed me to understand how to carry it as a sword to protect and care versus as something to chop down, right? Like coming from, you know, very standard Christian background, showing up to a slam.

47:07 And by the way, apologies for the curtness of some of this like coming to a slam like with like a large populace of LGBTQIA community people, right? I was like, oh man, like. What do I do here? How do I respond to this? How do I do this right? Like they're not going to want to hear what I have to say. Like they're not going to want to. They're going to think that I'm going to be judging them and then stepping into the space. And it was like, oh, Brandon, if you listen to what your mom told you, you got two eyes, 2 ears and one mouth for a reason. You should listen and watch twice as much as you speak. You may get the chance to learn something about how Love Actually functions and how you can love these people.

47:54 Because these people aren't your enemy. These people are people. These are people that God still actively loves, who God actively cares for, who longs and desires for relationship with, and if you. Get close enough to. Them you'll get the chance to see parts of God that you don't see anywhere else inside of these people right. Like I love the church. The church is God's pride. I fully believe that man do I have I seen a far better and concerned effort for the needy and the downtrodden out of a poetry community and out of left-leaning spaces then I do a lot of conservative right wing churches. There's no shortage of news cycle around the world about our, you know, our current administration and the people who put him into office.

48:42 And it it makes me sad to think that the people who pick up this book, who would read, you know, a red letter passage of Jesus talking about like, Oh yeah, like, you know, you cared for me when you fed the homeless. You care for me when you took care of the orphan, the widow, the, the one who had no place to go. And then they would be like, you know what, fam? Kick them all out to pour them all. Get them all out of here. I'm like, I just don't know. What God you looking at? And it was it was the poetry community that gave me a a my first glimpse, a love like that. I will forever be grateful for spoken word for allowing me to be able to see the gospel through the lens that it was supposed to be seen through, at least in my opinion. Wow.

49:31 I just want to let. That hang in the air for a SEC. Yeah, no, that, that's. Wonderful. Brandon, I I appreciate you you breaking that down for us. And again, it comes back to what you were saying about art and poetry's wonderful, you know, spiritual divine power to breakdown barriers and to help us see, yeah, that that people who are different from us are not different from us, that kind of thing. And that, you know, we have the privilege, you know, of, of walking around the world and seeing the kaleidoscope of creation in people in nature, You know, just the, the, the diversity of everything.

50:15 Like it's just it's so wonderful to to be a part of. I want to, I want to dive into, you mentioned this film complexity a little bit earlier. Can you tell us a little bit more about what this film is about because it kind of touches on on some of these themes that you've just given voice to. Yeah. So complexity is a. Film about the complex relationship between the black community and the Christian religion. It's displayed through a young black boy whose father gets killed in a traffic stop, and then seven years later he goes to a new church and two rows in front of him is the police officer who killed his father. And it's the week long journey. Of what he will do come next Sunday.

50:56 And so that the film was written by me, inspired not by my life circumstance, but through a myriad of different happenings that were going on during COVID. All of the black bodies being killed by police and a myriad of conversations that I was having with friends of mine who are deconstructing based around this connection, this it's not intrinsic, this external belief within the United States of America that God and country have to be directly that, oh man, you can't be a good American. You can't be a good Christian without being a solid American. And it's like, that's the dangerous thought pattern that led people to thinking that you could enslave folk. And then Dr. the Bible to justify. That's the dangerous thought pattern that led to people thinking, oh, yeah, we could kill off all of these native folk, but since they're not like us, you know, it doesn't matter. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is all antithetical to the gospel. If you look at what Jesus does, Jesus goes into places and his harshest criticisms are for leadership and the church. Those are the people he holds most accountable. So when we look at these situations, the least of us are the ones who will be first, and

52:30 the ones who are first will become the least of us. So let us make sure that we act according and the title of the film. Complexity is, is so fitting. Like you said, you've just broken down like a series of really, really complex, you know, socio political, religious relationships that are very much in the air in in the US, but also in other places of the world. And you, yeah, you have to kind of find your way through that, that swamp if you like. And yeah, you mentioned that, but some people their way through it is that kind of step away from everything and go, well, I don't want to be a part of this system or whatever. And others, others are looking for, I guess, a compassionate way through where they they want to hold on to their their faith and their values.

53:17 But there. But there's a lot of, yeah, there's a lot of stuff to work through, a lot of baggage, I suppose. And this is completely. Unrelated, are there like a is? There. A large population of black people in Australia on a on. AI guess on a percentage level, no, I mean, you know, we, we have a very, very large amount of, of, of immigrants in Australia from various parts of the world. We Australia naturally has its own indigenous population and we have our own complexities of stuff that we're working out, you know, in terms of stolen land, etcetera. And just, you know, I guess acknowledgement of that and, and just the relationship with Indigenous Australians.

54:03 So yeah, I guess Australia has their own things that that we're working through in this space. It just looks a little bit different. Yeah. The main reason I ask is just. Because forgive the terminology, most neat girls I know don't do spiders and y'all got hella though I watched the video and like y'all had spiders in the toilets who were like hiding underneath the lips and I'm like Nah dawg. I'm like I don't need to be pre. Flushing before I show up and arrive to the place I'm in a rush. I got to get to the bathroom. And so because I genuinely like I I I only know one person who lives in Australia and I remember asking I was like, yo, our Kangaroos really like that comment.

54:47 He's like, I mean, I. Mean look, it really depends where where you live. You know, if you're, if you're living right in the centre of Melbourne, then maybe not so many spiders or Kangaroos. But yeah, as soon as you get to the suburban fringe or anywhere in the rural areas, yeah, you, you'll see some stuff. I mean, you know, we, we exaggerate for effect sometimes with our, with our wildlife and whatever. But yeah, they're, they're around, you know, they're around. Hey, hey, man, it's. Y'all y'all y'all racing with Florida, I know that much. Yeah, that's it. That's it. Gators and everything. Yeah. No, thank you for for taking us through that, Brandon. And I'll, I'll leave a link to, to the complexity film, the YouTube link in the episode description for anyone who wants to, to figure it out and, and dive a little bit deeper. Just briefly, Brandon, I want to know in your role as a father, you know, we said three kids under 6, You know, how do you hope to pass on the values and the creativity that have defined your work to the next generation? I heard a very powerful quote.

55:53 From Donald Glover, yeah. His quote was. Jaden Smith is like the first free black kid. Wow, that is a quote. And I was like. And he was like Jaden Smith could pick anything. He could do anything. There is no limits or restrictions on Jaden's creativity. Jaden did, did music, had a like, he was able to do it all, and was able to do it also under the protection of his last name in a way that no other black kid had the privilege, at least within the context of what Donald Blever was referring to.

56:37 I want my kids to have a similar concept while also still having a very grounded perception of the world. Like I don't want my kids to be spoiled just because I'm financially doing better than my family has ever done before. I don't want them to be like, oh, Dad's going to get me this or Dad's going to get me that. Be like, Nah, go mow that lawn, go get your chores done and go earn your paychecks. That way you can go get your stuff that you would like to go get. But also I want my kids to be able to like sail and it not be so detrimental. Like I remember my fear failure. A lot of it was knowing I was going to be the first kid to graduate from College in my household, knowing that, oh, man, if I don't win this show and going right back to the regular job market.

57:31 And there's no guarantee that any of this will have done anything for me. And I want my kids to know what the pressure feels like, but to not, but to only carry it if they want to. Yeah. Well said. Just reflecting on that Jaden Smith thing, I suppose, you know, it's not just the, the freedom of of choice in that respect, but also, I think we all remember that he, he really, like, tried some weird stuff, you know, like he would, he would put out, you know, completely unedited thoughts that were either genius or madness. I don't know. We're still trying to figure it out. So he could even afford to be cringy in that respect. And it would. It would be.

58:12 Yeah. Like you said, it would be OK. He was kind of under, I guess, like you said, the protection of the success of both of, of his parents, you know, and, and obviously, you know, Willow's gone, gone on to to make waves in in music as well. Gee, that's, that's, that's really, yeah, that's really got me thinking. And it's cool that you've you've used that as, as a platform to be like, OK, well, this is going to be my approach with with my kids. And you know, I, I appreciate the not letting them get spoiled, but giving them a good grounded, loving experience of the world with, with a, with an unconditional loving safety net. I guess that's, that's all we could ever ask for, you know? Oh yeah.

58:56 Do you? I'm assuming I I just like the language varies. Do do you know the duplexes? It's a type of. House, is that right? Like it's like a. It's like a house that's like essentially 2 houses attached to each other. So like they have a shared wall and it's like 2 houses. So like one of my goals is to buy a duplex in the next couple of years and like rent it out. But the main reason is because I want to own it for my children. So that way when they become adults they will always have a home and ability to stay at my house as long as they're willing to either be in school or working. Got to be one of the two right? Can't just be bumming it at the at dad's crib and not actively doing something. But like if they want their slice of independence and they're like, oh man, like what's the job market look like with AI?

59:45 And like, what does an entry level position look like when we have people who are working at fast food restaurants, not because it's their first job, but because it's the only job they can get right? It's like Yo, how do how do I create something that my children can feel safe to be able to explore and try one of the minimal things I can do? Because you can have this place you can go live at, you can be straight, be safe, not have to worry about rent or mortgage for like a year or two. Go try, go do your thing sock puzzle it. Do what daddy did. Daddy did poetry was making $60.00 a show. It was buying ramen like was eating bad right.

1:00:29 Go live the life of the of the poor entrepreneur or go get the regular job, go to college, go do whatever you'd like to do, but know that you have something here. And that's an that's a blessing that not many people will get the chance to pass on. And I realize it's a privilege, but it's a privilege that I'm working my ass off to try to make sure I can have for them. And you're right, like. Once I think one of the big modern struggles is with housing, you know, because but if you've if you've got that covered, it just opens up so much more opportunity. You know, I think I think there are so many, so many people are struggling, you know, myself included. And, you know, so many dreams are kind of withering on the vine because people need to do so much to keep a roof over their head. So I think that the strategy, for lack of a better word, that you've got there is is perfect.

1:01:17 You know, in terms of saying, hey, here's a place. It's not like you said, it's not it's not just something that you can have with without the condition of like work or study, Like that's that's a reasonable expectation. But to set that up, I think that speaks volumes about, I guess. Yeah. The relationship that you want to have with your kids and the kind of yeah, the the way you want to set them up in life. So I really like that. It's good. Take a lot of that from Hispanic. Culture and I'm not Hispanic in any respect, but like I've seen Hispanic, I've seen Hispanic households have 3 to 4 generations of family in them like great grandma, grandma, mom and dad kids.

1:01:58 And it's like are they all living on top of each other? Yes, but they have like 7 people working in that house and like at least two of them own a business. Everybody's, everybody's all pulling into the same thing. And then by the time that a kid, by the time that like, you know, great grandma passes, you know, the, the, the mom and dad are now have these kids who are able to now make the decision, do I want to come back here or do I want to go elsewhere? But also the children feel a freedom to say I want to go back home to mom and dad and it not feel like failure because I don't want my kids to feel like, oh man, I failed because I got to come back because like, Oh my, I, I, I don't know if I mentioned this to you if I was talking to somebody else earlier, but like, after graduating from college, my life went to complete shit. But.

1:02:51 It went to. Complete shit. I I had bought it a Gator ring for a woman who I've been dating for nearly three years. We broke up over Stipe. I got a brand new job. Lost it two days into having the job because I broke some rule that they didn't tell me was a rule after me and the girl after me and the girl who I was dating broke up. I ended up losing the second job that I just got. This all happened in like 4 weeks after graduating college and then I ended up having to move back home and share a bedroom with my 8 year old little brother. And I remember just thinking damn I'm a failure. Like how do you fail this hard Brandon? Like how do you fail this hard?

1:03:35 And my mom sat me down and said Brandon you did not fail. You're here and I will always be here. Sorry, you don't fail as long as you got us. As well, I'm going to hold that same. Principle. Wow, beautiful. I like it. I like it. Brandon, are there any, are there any topics or are there any themes that you're currently exploring in your work or maybe you want to explore that might surprise your audience? Is there are there any kind of untapped areas that you'd want to explore Comedy. Hey, yeah.

1:04:16 Yeah, man, I think too many. Poets are too serious and they don't. They don't like to let people laugh. I'm like, Nah, man, if you're going to be a compelling storyteller, you got to figure out a way to get people to have some levity during the show. Yeah, come on, I've been to. I've been to far too. Many poetry slams where people came in feeling great and left depressed. I'm like, Nah, dog. Like we should be. We should be. Having some people leaving here lighter by the time that we're done with all this. So, you know, I'm writing a lot of I'm writing a lot of funny stuff at this moment in time because yeah, like I'm, I've always been really self reflective. Self reflective. But now I'm I'm allowing myself to take a step out of the self reflective nature to be able to say, yeah, I've lived a whole life and in this whole life have been some hilarious moments.

1:05:03 Let's talk about it. Let's talk about the moment where I was trying to spit game at this senior as a freshman and then I fell off of the ledge of this sidewalk and busted my lip in front of her. Great content. Let's talk about the time where I was at the grocery store. I saw this girl who I thought was cute, and then I flashed her a smile. And then she was like, And I realized that I had, like, a whole thing of, like, cilantro stuck in between my teeth. When I got back to the car, I'm like, that was it. That was it. So yeah, comedy. Comedy is the next frontier.

1:05:44 That's so exciting, Brandon. And I think, you know, I think as poets, you know, our, our strength is often in giving language to the minutiae of life. And that's, that's comedy there. There's so much overlap there in terms of, of those, those little moments, those little moments of, of facepalming or, or whatever the the case may be. And I agree, I think when we go to a night, yeah, there's lots we can do to look after each other and make sure that we leave, not that we leave lighter. You know, we can, we can share some of the heavy stuff, but we should be like focused on on, yeah, looking after each other, making sure people don't feel alone. And, you know, communal laughter is just it's the best.

1:06:25 It's the best thing. You know, it's the best thing. I love going to comedy shows. So very excited to see what you get up to in that space as we kind of come to, I don't know, the pointy end of our time together. Brandon, what's next for you in 202526? You've shared some really, really big stuff in terms of this new show with, with orchestra and dancers. I know that when we first touched base, you, you were showing some real enthusiasm for coming and touring Australia and you were, you're actually asking for my help with that, which surprised me because I'm, I'm, I'm not a, I'm not a tour manager by by any stretch of the imagination, but I was very humbled. Is there, is there anything else that that you're up to in your, in your creative work?

1:07:09 I'm a I'm I'm becoming. A film maker at this point. So I've been writing a lot of. Scripts and this next year is really going to be so like in two weeks I'm I'm going to be helping my best friend film his full length movie. So like we're going to be doing that in two weeks. I'm excited for that. I'm writing two full length movies myself, currently the full length version of Complexity, as well as another film which is a thriller movie called Amyla Rate, which is a synonym for grace. So I'm doing those and I have a bunch of shorts that I'm filming on my own, like while I'm out here at Indianapolis doing this youth conference. When I'm not doing that, I'm actually filming all of these shorts in these hotels because I don't have family with me and I have a an abundance of free time. So yeah, like that.

1:08:01 But the main thing is just getting this show together for February 7th like for sure. Like when I. Tell you people. Don't understand the level of work and energy I'm putting into this. Like I am the full creative director for the show. So like I have come up with, I'm coming out with all of the outfits that people will be wearing. I am coming up with all of the set design that we will be running with and doing. I am hiring all of the people who will be filling in their roles. I am immensely busy. I'm also doing all, I'm not doing the music, but I am managing the the creation of all of this music that is going in the backdrop of all this.

1:08:42 We're even flying to Budapest to go record with a Symphony, to have tracks. That way I could travel with it without having to have a full orchestra with me every time. I am immensely busy just getting this thing off the ground. And yes, I want to come to Australia. I would like to bring myself and my whole family for like a week or two and do as much poetry as I possibly could. So poetry venue, people who are listening, holla at me. Schools who are listening for both primary, secondary and college, holla at me. I would love to come on out, come spend some time with you guys, come do the Dang thing.

1:09:24 I will be in Thailand in October, can't come then, but I can come any other time that is not in February because I'm going to be doing this show in February. So if y'all are interested, Holla at the Kid. I would love to come out there. It is the call out's. Been sent Yeah we we would love to to have you mate I mean we've I know Australia's recently you know hosted Rudy Francisco I know we've hosted Neil Hillborn in the past so yeah there's a real rupee car sold out the Sydney. Opera House. Yeah, that's right. That's. Right. I've reached out to, I've reached out to Rupee to see if she wants to come on the show, but I haven't heard back. But that's fine. This is what you got to do.

1:10:06 Excellent. We're going to, for the last time this season. We're going to dive into the the overarching metaphor that we've been talking about this season, which is Brandon, if your creative work was an instrument in like an orchestra, a creative orchestra, do you know what kind of instruments it would be? I'm going to get really abstract. It would be the wand in the hand of the conductor. So like my work is. Kind of like a universal movement that gets the chance to highlight and display the plethora of beauty within spoken word. Like I have hard hitting bars like Black Chakra. Wonderful storytelling, like somebody like OB W have deeply intrinsic and personal storytelling like K Love. And so like the things that I do well, there are people who specialize and like are salute animals at the things that I do well and like that's their like specialty. So like if you would find yourself enjoying an aspect of who I am and that's something that you like, you can go find more of it.

1:11:14 So like I can conduct you to a lot of different spaces of spoken word to find home and you know. There's a bit of word play there in terms of conducting, you know, like electricity, like joining things together and being a channel for everything. So I know some of my guests have have fancied themselves as the conductor themself. You're the first person who said that you are, you are the wand, you are the tool doing the conducting. So thank you for putting the cherry on top of our our creative orchestra. And I always like to compile all the different instruments that everyone said throughout the season and say, hey, this is this is our creative orchestra, This is what we do. We've got piano, we've got drums, we've got everything we need.

1:11:57 So I look forward to that. Now, Brandon, you have been left a question, a bonus question from my previous guest. So this question comes from Megan J Riddle, who asks if you could take spoken word somewhere weird and crazy where people wouldn't expect it to be. For example, in space, what would that look like? Where would you like to take spoken word? We've talked about the Grammys. We've talked about Super Bowl. Is there anywhere else that you would like to take spoken word into the frontier? It'd be a. You'd have to. Be a really good an interactive poet.

1:12:38 But Carnival in Rio de Janeiro. You'd have to be somebody. Who could really compel an audience, get people to like, talk back, inner inner, inner engage, you know, do all the work. But like, I think a spoken word poet in the middle of Carnival, spin the piece on top of that stage would be really dope. So yeah, I would say Carnival would be like a very unique space that I don't know fucking word has ever touched that it it would be super compelling. Oh, that'd be so good. But, but you're right, like you'd have your work cut out for you in amongst all the all the colour and all the noise and all the everything that goes on for that, for that celebration. You know, that would be, yeah, that'd be really, really neat to see.

1:13:27 So, you know, we're, we're talking about Grammys, we're talking about Super Bowl, we're talking about Carnival. You know, let's, let's get it out everywhere, everywhere we can. Now, Brandon, if if people want to follow all these amazing things that you're up to see some more of your work and just, yeah, keep up to date with with what's happening. Where's the best places for for them to go to do that? Www.brandonleakeleake.com would be the best place to go. You can get to my Instagram, my YouTube, if you still, Facebook, Facebook and all the stuff there. All of the updates regarding my show will be going onto those social platforms as well as my website. If you're like, hey, I love what you're doing. I want to support and donate.

1:14:17 I actually have a fundraiser currently through my website for people to be able to donate to help pay for this show because this show is not cheap. This show is expensive. It's got a lot of people mate. Wow. And so and I'm paying. Everybody, nobody's working for free. We're making sure that if I get paid as an artist, every artist on the car gets paid. That is my fundamental belief. So that would be the best spot to go to if you want to see like continuous daily content. For me, Instagram and YouTube are like the places I post most frequently. I don't like TikTok, but you'll see me post there. But it's it's just not for me. Yeah, for sure. No, I. I agree, and we'll have links to all of those in the in the show description. Do you have more merch on the way? I really have.

1:15:04 I really love your merch line, but I think it's been out of stock for a little bit. Do you have some more on the way? Oh yeah. So I only do. Merch when I get ready to tour. I don't like to have merch on hand traditionally, but no, I have an entire new run of I made AI made a knit jersey. I have 5 T-shirts, I have 3 hoodies, A Letterman jacket and a corduroy jacket that are all getting produced currently. And so they're currently in manufacturing and then getting shipped to me. Also have like 4 different hats that are getting produced as well. So yeah, merch will be coming. Everything that is, by the way, if by the way, if you donate 100 American to the fundraiser, you get a free ticket to the show, yes.

1:15:54 So like. If you're like, hey. Fam, I've been looking for an excuse to go to America and go to a state that is not completely screwed by its federal government. You can come to California and come enjoy this show on February 7th and then watch American Football because I know you guys have football as well as rugby and all the other stuff at the show. I'll be selling all the merch and whatever does not get sold at the show, I will put the remainder of it for sale online for people to be able to purchase. And then if people create enough of the enough of a demand, I will restock for when we take this on tour.

1:16:34 Because what people don't know is that we already have 10 shows booked for the tour to take this. It's the show is called In Real Life with the orchestra and all that. We're going to take that show on the road and I have 10 shows booked currently and I'm trying to add 40 more shows. This sounds amazing, Brandon. I'm I'm so excited. Sounds like it's going to be a a real watershed 2026 for you and this show. So yeah, looking looking forward to the new merch line as well. Hey, I'm about to reach out to the Sydney. Opera House. And if I do, you better have three good poems to open up the show. Brother, I'm going to let you know you're the only poet I know in Australia. So I'm about to get 4 poets to come open the show and you are one of the four, all right?

1:17:22 All right, my work's. Cut out for me, I'll, I'll get I'll get to writing some new stuff in the off season. I'm like, I'm just letting you know. If if it if it shakes out because your guys's rainy season is when right now. Yeah. So yeah. Like our summer? So. Like I will be coming in like November of next year if this thing shakes out and you better be ready to come spit some bars. I'm just letting you know, All right, mate, I'm ready. I'm. Ready. I'll take you out to your word. I'll take you out to your word. Brandon, you're going to leave us with a third and final piece in just a second. I just want to take 60 seconds to wrap up season 2 of I think therefore I slam. It's been incredible.

1:18:07 We've really taken things to a new level with all the, the, the video episodes with kind of the new format with huge international and national guests. I, I just want to thank every single guest that's come on. This season has been so generous with their time and their work. I really want to thank Joseph, my video editor. You've been amazing. I want to thank my patrons over on Patreon. Make sure you check that out where you can support the show directly and get a whole bunch of cool bonus content. The best place to keep track of the show during the offseason is Instagram. I think, therefore I slam podcast. I'll be doing updates there. Like I said, check out the Patreon, check out the merch store as well so you can Rep the show wherever you go. Season 3, I've already planning for it. And yeah, some of the guests that I've got lined up I'm super excited for.

1:19:00 So I just want to thank everyone who's tuned in, who's told someone about the show, who's subscribed on YouTube, on Spotify, on Apple Podcast. Keep up the great work. This is growing into something like really special. And yeah, I just, I really want to keep it going. Cool. Brandon, are you going to finish us off with one last piece today? Dreams are defined. As a succession of images, thoughts or emotions that flood through the mind while one is sleeping and are also often times forgotten like 5 minutes after we wake up in the morning. But dreams are also the aspirations we carry inside of our hearts, just hoping one day they may finally come true. And I find it so sad that as we've grown older, we've lost sight at how beautiful dreaming truly is. It's almost as if somewhere along the path, we fall into a trap that tells us that dreams aren't real. I remember being a little clean.

1:19:58 At this imagination that ran rampant, the way I could turn my driveway to the NBA, how I would let these shots spray and my imagination would always put 3 seconds left on the clock. And I have the rocks. So y'all go ahead and count with ME3. 21 brick but. See, here's the beautiful. Part about dreaming is you could just reimagine the whole thing. So countdown again with ME3213. This is the dream of every single kid on my block. And what I'm trying to tell y'all is as a child, I believe I could be anything that I wanted to be. And I bet that you all did too. No matter what that dream may have been. As children, we all created more space in our lives for our imagination than we did our limitations.

1:20:40 But now, now that we've grown older, we let that subtle voice in the back of our minds tell us the dreams aren't real. We we wake up in the morning just praying if it's change and things remain the same. And that can make it seem like dreams aren't real. We we get up and we put our souls to the ground and we just feel like it's making everything. It takes everything to make our heart pound and that can make it feel like dreams aren't real. But I. Guess my question to you would. Be would you want it any other way? At the end of the day, would you want the world to bend to your whim, or would you want to go and chase after the thing that makes your heart activate the moment that you get out of that bed? Because what I'm telling you right now is that yes, dreams may be difficult, but on the other side of all of that work, of all of that effort is the pride in knowing that you were enough stride and you achieved and you attained something so beautiful, something so grand.

1:21:44 And it's not about the stage it was done on. It's about the fact that it was authentically you. So to my. People. My friends, my neighbors, my kinfolk. People pray. That you look in the. Mirror and recognize that you were enough before the dream ever arrived, because the dream was meant to serve you, not the other way around. So today I will say that dreams are only real when you put accents behind. And what will you do? What that dream of yours? Wow, the dreams. Were meant to serve you, not the other way around Brandon I really appreciate how you've kept it so real today. You've given us a real insight into, you know, what it means to to have such a, a transcended experience as, you know, winning America's Got Talent, but also, you know, staying real and feeding that experience and, and, and how it's changed your life back into the, the causes and the people and the dreams that you believe in.

1:22:55 So it's been a pleasure. Brandon Leake, thank you so much for thinking with us and slamming with us today anytime. Anytime. And we'll see y'all. In 2026, let's go.