Antoinette & Annabella Luu - Sisters In Slam

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As Pablo Picasso said, good
artists copy, great artists

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steal, but the best artists they
listen to, I think Therefore I

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Slam the podcast bringing you
the best spoken word and slam

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poetry artists from Australia
and beyond.

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My name is Andrew and my guests
Plural.

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My guests plural today come
nominated by former podcast

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guest Daphne.
Thank you, Daphne.

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They are twin spoken word and
visual artists quickly becoming

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mainstays of the Sydney slam
scene.

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They're both on the editing team
for the celebrated UNSW literary

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journal Unsweetened, and they
are both fresh off competing in

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the 10th Bankstown Poetry Slam
Grand Slam at the Sydney Opera

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House.
Amazing.

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Please welcome Antoinette and
Annabella Lou.

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Thank you.
And the crowd goes wild.

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Thank you, Sydney.
This is our very first multi

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guest episode won't be the last.
We're all figuring out where do

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we look?
When do we speak?

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Oh, I hope we don't like all
speak on top of each other, but

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it's it's gonna be a lot of fun.
I'm very interested to find out

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where your stories intersect,
but also where where they vary.

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You know, I'm sure you've grown
up with all the kinds of cliches

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of like, oh, you 2 twin sisters,
you finish each other's

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sentences or, or whatever.
Was there ever point where you

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were finishing each other's
sentences?

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Did you have that kind of
psychic connection at some

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point?
Yeah, but it's not psychic.

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I think it's actually just, you
know, when you grow up the same

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you're, you're brought up to
think sure in similar ways.

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So we kind of finish each
other's.

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Sandwiches.
Sentences.

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Sandwiches.
And Bella.

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Who would who would finish who
would?

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Who would finish who's?
A little bit of both.

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I don't know what Annette's
talking about.

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I we we have a cosmic link where
cerebrally linked and it started

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in the womb the.
The cosmic umbilical, as they

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say, Well, because there's two
of you, the structure is going

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to be a little bit different.
So if you're listening, we're

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going to hear 2 pieces from each
of you and kind of split them up

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over the episode.
Annette, you're going to start

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us off with your first spoken
word piece.

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Did you have like an intro?
Do you want to tell us about it,

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or did you want to dive straight
in?

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I think I'll let the poem speak
for itself.

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This poem is my bio, I guess.
Dear Ibis, you are the true

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archaeologist.
While the dove gets all the

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glory for essentially being a
white pigeon, you urban bird

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with your snatching devilish
ways in a pack in the Bankstown

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alleyway pot bellied off Whites,
in this wasteful world you go

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thrifting in a dumpster.
You Ibis, you white collared

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worker, we think to the Ibis how
lowly it is to take what has

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already been bitten into.
But my mom always taught me

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never pay full price.
My dad always said no waste, no

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waste.
He'd be disappointed in the

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trash for staying so intact.
The baby teeth, shards of

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Victoria bitter.
The second hand news of who in

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Hollywood got divorced this
time.

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The orange juice spread over
headlines like a rumour.

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The loose lettuce, the bread
unspeckled by mold.

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You flagrantly hijacked these
scraps as if you struck gold.

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So before I curl my lips in
disgust when the ladies at Yum

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Chao roll out the chicken feet,
before I cringe at the sloppy

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slurp of my parents sucking the
brain out of the prawn, when I

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am disgusted by the texture or
the taste, I'll remember.

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At least they had the decency to
say no waste.

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No waste.
When Gong's main language was

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the chill and I spent all those
fees on an English degree.

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I hope my parents didn't think.
What a waste, what a waste,

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because I have no other way to
repay than to write.

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Even if it feels like each
syllable is only worth a cent,

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that barely makes a dent in
their debt.

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Maybe that's why I feel the need
to achieve myself to death.

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But then I remember what Omte
Oceanvung said.

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You can have medicine, bombs,
robotics, pharmaceuticals, you

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can invent the greatest things,
but only through language can

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you convince each other to live
or die to protect them.

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This learning of language, I'll
remember is not a waste.

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Not a waste because my dad pop
bellied off Whites, was scared

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to go for Balmain school captain
because his English was no so

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good.
He's now captaining what comes

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in and out of the IGA loading
dock because he's mastered the

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tone of this bartering language.
Two parts teasing, one part

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serious.
It scored him a cup and half off

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a couch from Nick Skali.
It scored me this poem.

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That's how I want to be so
thrifty in my teasing that I've

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mastered this tonal language.
It's the closest I can come to

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Vietnamese.
Even in the migration he didn't

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waste a single skill.
For a guy who never has access,

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he always has something to
spare.

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Maybe that's why I always find
gold coins in the glove box. 1

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for every time he wished he
could buy from his school

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canteen.
I'll match the price with every

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syllabic cent I can spare for
him.

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Fellow Ibis.
My dad is a mechanic of turning

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waste into spare parts.
Thanks for finishing the job,

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dear Ibis.
I'm most grateful to you, but I

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still want my cheeseburger back.
Yeah, wonderful, wonderful.

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That's the like you said that is
bringing us up to speed on your

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story and your bio.
Big fan of the Ibis, at least

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the idea of of an Ibis, you
know, do they call them bin

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chickens up there?
Is is that a thing or is that

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more Queensland way?
Yeah, no, they call them bin

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chickens.
Yeah, I I like the way.

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I like the way you put it, like
I like the idea of it, but in

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practice I don't, I don't like
Ibis or I'm I'm I'm yet to

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understand the Ibis.
Did either of you hear the

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story?
I think there was a man, I want

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to say in Perth, I don't think
it was, it was around our ways

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who was, who was trying to cook
one, who was trying to like

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catch and cook 1.
And I think because they're a

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protected species had to be told
in court to not do that.

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So yeah, it does happen.
I did hear that, yes.

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It's misunderstood birds.
You know, you've shared a little

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bit of the origin story there,
but I'm interested in the origin

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story of the two of you and how
you got started with creating

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and sharing your work in stage.
So Bella, I'm wondering if you

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could start with sharing some of
your origin story.

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OK.
So in terms of slam poetry, I

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had sort of like half been
exposed to it on just YouTube,

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so through like Button Poetry
and then this collective in the

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US called the Strivers Row, but
I'd never actually experienced

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it in person until Annette.
So she's the cause of all of

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this.
Took me to a Bankstown poetry

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slam, and I remember that they
really reeled me in because they

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played the friends intro after
someone's poem and everyone sort

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of like jamming to the yeah,
I'll be eating apple.

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Yeah, yeah.
And obviously the poetry was

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also really amazing.
And the support feature I

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remember was Ibrahim.
He's got such a great poem

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called Men Do Not Cry.
It's online, but I remember that

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he actually stuck post it notes
under audience members chairs.

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And I was one of the lucky ones.
And it was this purple post it

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note that said stay groovy.
And that just sort of like won't

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be over.
And I have it on my wall to this

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day.
It's been up there for like a

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few years now.
But yeah, so it was through a

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net.
And I remember being really

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surprised that because we live
in Bankstown, like we're very

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close to the Art Center where
the poetry slime is.

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And I remember thinking like,
and this artistic space is so

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close to us in location, which
was very unexpected.

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I, I'm not sure where it comes
from, but we, we grew up with

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the idea that poetry and arts
and literature was very far away

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from us and we'd have to travel
outside our own localities in

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order to access it.
So to know that Bankstown poetry

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has been there for, I think,
more than a decade now, so close

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to home, was really comforting.
And so, yeah, we attended BPS 4

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a little bit.
And then I went to a poetry slam

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in Parramatta called Westside
Poetry.

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He's hosted by Daphne.
You know, it's a really intimate

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space and there's no points
there.

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So I went to that for a little
bit and our sort of first friend

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we made through poetry.
His name is Cody, and you can

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sort of find some of his
performances online.

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He really encouraged me to get
up there, even though I was

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really young and I was really
scared.

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But you know, we were, we had
created a group chat between the

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three of us and then I have a
lot of group chats and people

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because like there's two of us
and if people want to say

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something, usually they want to
say it's in both of us.

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So lots of like group chats of
threes.

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So we had like a group chat
called the feedback loop with

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Cody.
And you know, a lot of my

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earliest slam poems were born
there.

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Like everyone, all three of us
are really generous in in

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feedback.
We sort of sent through voice

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recordings of our poems.
And he was a big factor in me

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writing my first poem that I
performed at West Side.

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And then and then I won.
And then so I got called back to

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do a support feature, which
means that I had like no poems

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in the arsenal at that point.
So I had to write another like.

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That's the.
Worst when you you're at the

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bottom of the barrel, you know?
Maybe, maybe.

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But also, I think it was so
like, it was such a blessing in

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disguise because I don't know,
like just something because I'd

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never written.
He's a slam poetry.

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It just all sort of like poured
out of me.

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And then I was finally brave
enough, maybe like a year later

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to take it to Bankstown, where
the audience is both really,

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really welcoming, but also
really intimidating because, you

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know, we all care so much.
So I wanted to make sure I had

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the right one to go to
Bankstown.

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Long story short, I went, I
performed a poem called

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Nosebleed, which was about
masculinity.

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It was sort of diverted to the
men in my life, yeah.

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And then I came second,
performed in the Grand Slam.

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And as they say, the rest is
history.

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But.
Not history, because it's.

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Continuing now, but.
We live in history, yes.

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We live in history.
And history is is is told by the

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victors of the slam poetry
scene.

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I don't know.
I don't know.

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So you, you got this.
Keep it stay groovy sticker at

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your first slam and you thought,
oh, I want to be groovy.

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I want to write some stuff like
this.

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Precisely.
Precisely.

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And I like, I like that because
some of the other quotes, they

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were more serious and they were
like, some of them were more.

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What's the word?
Yeah.

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That was just like more serious.
And I like that because

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sometimes I think just at this
age, like we're both quite

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young.
So I think when you're young,

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you have the tendency to take
yourself really seriously.

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The fact that that quote sort of
came in at the right time and

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was just a reminder to be
playful.

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Don't take yourself too
seriously.

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Have fun.
I think that was very well

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timed.
Yeah.

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Good.
Keep it crispy as they say.

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Thanks, Bella.
So, Annette, from what Bella was

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saying, it sounds like you were,
you were one or two steps ahead.

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You were you were dragging your
sister along to the first, the

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first one.
How?

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How did you end up in that
space?

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So like when I was 18, like I
was just fresh out of high

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school and I was kind of craving
like, you know, just just

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something in the art scene
outside of school.

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And so I, I literally, I just
googled like, you know, poetry

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events and I saw there was one
in Bankstown.

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I'm like that's 5 minutes away.
It's so close.

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So I just checked it out and the
first time I saw spoken word

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poetry around here, it wasn't
actually a poetry slam thanks to

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an arts centre.
They held this event called

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00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,320
Nexus, and it was a bunch of
different art forms performing.

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00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,560
But the first person I saw
performed spoken word poetry was

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00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:34,800
Leila Menswa.
Don't know if you've heard of

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00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,280
her, but yeah, I saw her perform
and I was like, wow, is this, is

229
00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,400
this what poetry is not, Not TS
Eliot type, but, you know,

230
00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:45,800
understandable, digestible, but
still challenging in a way.

231
00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,800
And that was sort of combined
with, you know, like when you

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00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:50,800
leave school, your whole world
sort of bursts open.

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00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:54,360
And I'd started English tutoring
other high school students at

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00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,160
that time.
And my first student came to me

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00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:01,240
with a poetry book asking me to
help her deconstruct it.

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00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:05,160
And that book was Night Sky with
Exit Wounds by Ocean Vaughn.

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00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,560
Have you heard of it?
I have not tell me about this.

238
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,360
Oh, it's so good.
Where is it?

239
00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,600
It's on my bookshelf somewhere.
Basically it's it's a, it's a

240
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:20,160
poetry collection by a
Vietnamese American poet named

241
00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,600
Ocean Vaughn.
And it won the TS Eliot Prize

242
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,440
back in 2020.
Something I'll have to double

243
00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,400
check that.
But it's interesting because he,

244
00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:33,200
you know, he's a member of the
Vietnamese diaspora.

245
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:37,840
And even though he lives in
America, his story I found, was

246
00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:44,960
quite similar to mine in a way.
And I came across his poem like

247
00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,080
Someday, Someday I'll Love Ocean
Vaughan.

248
00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:49,800
So it's like a love letter to
himself.

249
00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:54,440
And I think just his, his
language sort of made me fall

250
00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,920
back in love with language
because I saw that poetry could

251
00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,640
be written for someone like
myself and I didn't have to do

252
00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,120
heaps and heaps of work to
understand someone else's

253
00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:06,480
experience, which, you know,
there's value in that.

254
00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:10,040
But when you grow up on that
kind of poetry, you are left

255
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:14,360
feeling a little bit bereft in a
way or like poetry isn't for

256
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,240
you.
So that combined with

257
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:21,000
discovering Bankstown Poetry
Slam was how I was sort of like

258
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,760
encouraged to start writing a
little bit more

259
00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,280
autobiographically or like semi
autobiographically.

260
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,960
And it made me realize like
there is a lot there in my own

261
00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,520
life that is worthy of being
written about.

262
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,360
And it's really worth riding my
way through that first before I

263
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,640
start fictionalizing.
So I think it was like a

264
00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,200
combination of those two things
that got me creating and sharing

265
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:48,560
and then dragging along to the
the poetry slams as well.

266
00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:51,480
And yeah, like similar
experience with Bella, just

267
00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:55,280
watching the way that banks on
poetry unfolds, watching the way

268
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,320
below have to host as well.
You know, he gave so much

269
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,080
respect to just like, the figure
of the poet.

270
00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:04,240
Every person who signed up for
the open mic, he said he called

271
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:08,240
a poet.
I watched Ali Alhaj do a feature

272
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:12,080
set and he performed this poem
about Palestine at the time.

273
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:16,720
And I started to see how, like,
crucial poetry could be in that

274
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,080
way as well.
And so, yeah, I think that's

275
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,480
what started to get me, like,
creating and sharing.

276
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:26,360
And then in that same year, I
applied for the National Youth

277
00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,000
Poetry Slam in there, like
inaugural year.

278
00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,960
I got in.
Somehow I got in, which is cool.

279
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,520
I think like the poem that I
performed, it was about my

280
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,280
grandpa, which I actually I
still really stand by.

281
00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,480
I still quite like.
But it's quite a page poem, you

282
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:48,520
know, very rigid crime scheme,
not super easy to understand on

283
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:53,160
the stage.
But I think ever since then I've

284
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:58,320
sort of just tried to write for
the stage more and like I, I

285
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,280
became addicted to it.
It's really fun.

286
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,320
So that's my That's my Batman
origin story.

287
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:10,680
I'm a poet.
Do you remember what you said to

288
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,960
Bella when you know you first
dragged her along to the first

289
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,120
night?
It was like, come to Bankstown

290
00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:18,720
poetry slam dot dot dot, like,
what was the pitch?

291
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,040
I don't know.
I I honestly can't remember.

292
00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:26,240
Bella, do you remember?
OK, when and, and I like share

293
00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,720
things that we want to go to.
We just send a link and then we

294
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,640
write 2 words.
We go question mark.

295
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,800
Simple as that.
The humanity link, yeah.

296
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,680
I mean, I guess the event speak
spoke for itself, so yeah.

297
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,160
And I guess like if you went and
it was, it was lame, you know,

298
00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:45,600
you've, you've got someone you
know there and you can kind of

299
00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,160
slip out the back or whatever.
But everything I hear about

300
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,040
Bankstown Poetry Slam, it's
certainly not lame.

301
00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,440
You know, the more I hear about
it, the more it's, it's

302
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,520
certainly like the envy of a lot
of us down here in Melbourne in

303
00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:01,560
terms of having such a large,
you know, regular celebrated

304
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,800
event.
I want to talk about the recent

305
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,359
Bankstown Poetry Slam Grand
Slam, which was at the Sydney

306
00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:09,880
Opera House and you were both
involved.

307
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,880
Now, I have had our mutual
friend Bernadette Cohen on the

308
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,560
show a little bit earlier and,
and she kind of set the scene

309
00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,160
about what the Grand Slam was
like.

310
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,520
But I'd like to know what your
play by play of the experience

311
00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:27,960
was and how your teams went in
the in the scheme of things.

312
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,280
So how was it Bella?
You know, it's really, really

313
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,080
cool because like we always like
to say, you know, Western Sydney

314
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,360
hits up like the Opera House,
like the biggest stage in Sydney

315
00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:39,960
or like Western Sydney hits up
Sydney Town Hall.

316
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,880
So it's it's just really cool
that like our middle community

317
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,640
is so like portable and we're
sort of just loud and assured

318
00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:50,520
anywhere we go.
Daphne, who came up with our

319
00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:53,000
team name?
It was, we were called

320
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,800
Collateral Good, which is like,
yeah, a play on collateral

321
00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:58,840
damage.
There were four of us.

322
00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:05,520
So it was me, Asha Almaz,
deputy, and we met up quite a

323
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:07,640
few times.
We got to know each other.

324
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,360
And I joked that being in a
Grand Slam where you're

325
00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:16,400
competing in teams is like doing
those icebreaker exercises, like

326
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,360
at work or get to know your
colleague.

327
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,080
But like, you can't BS your way
through it if you want to write

328
00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:22,280
good poetry.
So.

329
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,000
And I knew Daphne before and I,
I sort of knew Asha, but I'd

330
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,080
never met Alan.
So like, we had we, we took the

331
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,400
time to get to know each other
properly.

332
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,520
And it was pretty easy because
they're, you know, they're great

333
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:35,720
people.
Yeah.

334
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:40,000
And so, you know, the first poem
that we performed, so the

335
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:41,720
grandson sort of split into two
rounds.

336
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:46,640
The first poem that we performed
was called Somebody Teaches You,

337
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,920
and it was an extension of a
poem that Daphne had already

338
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:51,760
performed at the Sydney Writers
Festival.

339
00:18:52,120 --> 00:18:54,320
And that poem is really
different to any sort of other

340
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,840
poem that I've written, which is
really cool because it pushed me

341
00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,400
into a new style.
And it's sort of just like

342
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,840
excoriates or it brings to light
all of the things that no one

343
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,400
seems to want to talk about
openly.

344
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:08,720
And so, you know, at the
beginning, we do have a trigger

345
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,960
warning for things like anxiety,
abuse, suicidal ideation,

346
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,600
assault.
And it takes all those things

347
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,360
and it really just lays them
bare.

348
00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:21,440
And we all sort of testify to
some of those experiences that

349
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,200
we went through, respectively.
And the poem sort of puts all of

350
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:30,840
these almost taboo experiences
side by side to say that, you

351
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,440
know, this is a pattern of our
society that we've we've

352
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:37,600
naturalized the idea of keeping
things hidden even though they

353
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:42,080
make us suffer collectively.
It's a really intense poem, but

354
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,360
it also felt really powerful to
perform, especially amongst

355
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,320
through powerful women on the
stage as well.

356
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,880
And also like.
Because that poem was really

357
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,360
heavy, we always wanted we want
to take care of the audience.

358
00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:57,200
And so the opening is humorous.
I'm not sure if Bankstown will

359
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,560
will put the performance online,
but just to summarize what

360
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,640
happened in the opening, you've
got Asha saying, like, dying.

361
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:05,640
And then Alma's going, like,
watch why?

362
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:10,320
And she says I'm bleeding where?
And then we all point down

363
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,040
there.
Yeah.

364
00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:15,240
So, yeah, it's a really cool
poem.

365
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:20,280
And, you know, kudos to Daphne
for allowing us into that poem,

366
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,120
to breathe out and experiences
into it, to expand it.

367
00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:27,360
I think that was really special.
And then for the second round,

368
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,600
this is where we wanted to write
something new with all four of

369
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,560
us as well.
And we were really reflecting on

370
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:39,080
our intentions behind that poem.
And I think we got to the

371
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,600
conclusion that we wanted to
leave people with hope and we

372
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,880
wanted to dive deep into our
relationship with our respective

373
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,760
cultures.
I'm Vietnamese, Ashes Norway,

374
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,840
and Daphne is Turkish, Elnaz is
Lebanese.

375
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,000
And we wanted to in the lead up
to writing that poem, we had a

376
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,520
lot of just cross cultural
dialogues.

377
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,080
And we're talking about our
relationship to, you know, the

378
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:05,480
food, language and the land and
sometimes the grief that can

379
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,120
come with those relationships.
And it was just a really

380
00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:12,400
cathartic poem to write.
Yeah.

381
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,040
And there was just so many lines
that we all sort of resonated

382
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,400
with.
So I remember Daphne said, you

383
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,920
know, even though we've lost
some of our language, there's

384
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,240
some words that your brain will
short circuit to.

385
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,720
And for her it was the word Bez
for cloth.

386
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,120
And you know, I got to learn a
little bit of like their their

387
00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:33,280
languages too.
And sometimes the syllables and

388
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:37,560
the actual pronunciation would
almost be similar to, you know,

389
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:39,160
when I would speak the words to
them.

390
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,720
So that was really cool as well.
And then we came third, which

391
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:43,400
was pretty.
Neat.

392
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,440
Yeah, there it is.
Congratulations.

393
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,120
Thank you.
Yeah.

394
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:52,840
And I just, it was so fun, even
just like in the dressing room

395
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,160
or in the green room, getting
ready together, getting to be

396
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,360
kind of girly.
And like, I didn't, I didn't

397
00:21:58,360 --> 00:22:00,280
dress up very often.
So that was also just a really

398
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,440
fun part of it.
And talking to the other poets

399
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,880
backstage as well was just a
really big highlight.

400
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:07,240
Yeah.
So that's my.

401
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,400
Grand Slam experience.
It was indeed grand.

402
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,720
Yeah, so good.
And I remember when when Daphne

403
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,480
came on the show, she shared her
piece Nobody Tells You, which

404
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:22,640
sounds like it was the the the
basis for for kind of the remix

405
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,040
that that the four of you put
together.

406
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,240
So that's that's really cool.
Annette, what's what's your

407
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,280
stories from the Grand Slam?
Where to start?

408
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:35,480
OK, so I'll introduce my team, I
guess.

409
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,800
So it was me, Ollie Moore Jihad
just seen and Elliot your

410
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,320
Cameron.
And I've, I've seen these poets

411
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,200
like around big stamp poetry and
I've watched them perform and I

412
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,920
was always such big fans of
them, but I've never really sort

413
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,280
of talked to them properly
before.

414
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,880
And so when, when they drew the
names, we had a meeting where

415
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,320
they drew the teams and I heard
I was in their team because like

416
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,560
our team got drawn last.
I was like, hmm, who's left?

417
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,280
Oh, I've got, I've got these
two.

418
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,760
Then I've got that guy.
And I'm like, I just, I couldn't

419
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:11,320
believe my luck that I, I got to
work with some of my favorite

420
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,040
poets.
We all come from such like

421
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,360
different backgrounds as well.
And it's, it's similar to Bella.

422
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:22,000
Like we, we spent the two months
leading up to the Grand Slam

423
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,800
just sort of meeting up.
We met up every week for a

424
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:29,160
couple hours at a time, just
connecting through honest

425
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,680
conversations, I guess.
And we just got to know each

426
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,440
other as people, which you kind
of need if you're going to write

427
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,200
poetry together.
And through those conversations,

428
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:43,040
we built the poems that felt the
most urgent or authentic to us,

429
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,680
the poems that we ended up going
with.

430
00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:49,400
So again, yeah, there's two.
One of them.

431
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,600
The one, the first one that we
wrote was the second one we

432
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,640
performed.
And it was about masculinity.

433
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,360
But we all had such different
takes on it.

434
00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:01,440
So obviously, like my, my team
is made-up of like three other

435
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,040
men.
And I was thinking, you know,

436
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,920
like as, as a woman, I, I know I
had things to say, but I didn't

437
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,160
want to speak over the men's
experiences with masculinity.

438
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,680
But I, I quickly realized, like,
we all have such different

439
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,880
takes, even like the three men,
they have different

440
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,480
relationships with their
fathers, different sexual

441
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,080
orientations.
And so I, I told them, like, you

442
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,200
know, I, I'm happy to take a
backseat in this poem and just

443
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,240
sort of highlight your voices on
masculinity.

444
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,480
And they said don't be silly in
it.

445
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,520
Don't be silly.
And what they ended up doing was

446
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,200
in, in Elliott's words, Elliott
said you should have your own

447
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,880
saxophone solo.
I was like, stop it.

448
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,920
I'd be honored.
And I think I, I really

449
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,400
appreciate what we ended up
with.

450
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,200
So if you didn't catch the poem,
the opening is like a dialogue

451
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,560
between the three men, and it
looks at how the men sometimes

452
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,680
can struggle to communicate
their affection like they do it

453
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,080
in circuitous ways.
Elliot's got this great line

454
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,760
about how men sometimes love
each other so much that they

455
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,560
want nothing more than to show
what they would break for each

456
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:13,800
other and how violent that
affection can come across.

457
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,640
And so the opening is just them
in that dialogue.

458
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,280
And their section ends with the
question of like, how do you

459
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,360
love a man?
And that's the opening to my

460
00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:27,600
section as well.
And I didn't want to just answer

461
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,280
that question because I don't
know.

462
00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:32,200
I don't know.
But I, I think that it was a

463
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:37,600
good segue into this idea that
sometimes when men are not

464
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,600
brought up to communicate
properly, they can impose that

465
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,480
role on women, just like
generally speaking.

466
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,720
But sometimes like women don't
have all the answers or they

467
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:54,320
shouldn't have to fulfill just
that emotional role in a way.

468
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:58,080
And so my, my first line in
response to that question, you

469
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,960
know, how do you love a man is I
always find myself here.

470
00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:05,920
I always find myself here.
I guess that section is just

471
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:12,160
sort of focusing on how like
when you're shoehorned into that

472
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,040
therapist role within a
friendship, it can get really

473
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,120
taxing on yourself.
Like I think it's true of both

474
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:25,480
men and women, but I, I just
have found in my experience that

475
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,320
women are often shoehorned into
that role.

476
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,080
So that's what my section is
about.

477
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,160
And it kind of ends with them
looking at the ways in which men

478
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,320
can express love.
Because I end my section with

479
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,960
some of the best men I know come
in pairs, come in wink, wink,

480
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:45,280
threes.
And this idea that, like, they

481
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,720
will raise some of the best men
in my life sort of raised each

482
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,080
other when they didn't have
other men in their own

483
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,640
households to raise each other.
The second poem, which ended up

484
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,200
being our first one, is this
poem about, like, evil and what

485
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,520
evil looks like.
And Ali has this background in

486
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,360
comedy.
He's really funny.

487
00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:08,040
And he kicked us off with this
really great draft.

488
00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:16,000
You know, evil looks like Elon
Musk jumping up and down for for

489
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,880
the orange man pasty tummy
showing he's got he's got this.

490
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,240
He's got this great photo of him
just like pasty tummy blind and

491
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:27,360
white like Edwin Edwin Cullen in
the sun this.

492
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,320
Is, you know, the killer Bella?
Bella, Yeah, that's.

493
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,200
It.
Watch out, Bella.

494
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,160
Yeah.
And so he he wrote that draft

495
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,480
and it was really good, but the
rest of us were struggling to

496
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,360
come up with something funny to
sustain that draft a because all

497
00:27:45,360 --> 00:27:48,280
his humour is just very well
written.

498
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:54,120
But be more more saliently is
that we sort of, we kept seeing

499
00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:57,400
like Israel's genocide in
Palestine get worse.

500
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:02,400
We saw Trump turning America
into a dystopia.

501
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,720
Increasingly.
We saw like cases here in Sydney

502
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:09,320
of workers, like getting laid
off for their support for

503
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:13,360
Palestine.
And so I think that the reason

504
00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:17,120
that we were so successful is
because we wrote these feelings

505
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:20,280
into the poem instead of trying
to force it into just like a

506
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,120
comedic entertaining poem.
So we wrote the idea that, you

507
00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:26,920
know, it's just, it's getting
harder and harder to laugh into

508
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,560
the poem.
And I actually, I think it adds

509
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,680
so much more tension because,
yeah, like, we weren't just

510
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:34,240
trying to make an audience
laugh.

511
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,600
Then we were exhibiting how
humor can be like a defence

512
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:43,440
mechanism against evil, but it's
also sort of teetering the on

513
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,160
the line of like when this
mechanism actually breaks down.

514
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,320
And so Ollie opens up with evil
looks like this and that, and

515
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,120
it's really funny.
But then Elliot comes in with

516
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,840
his section.
I'm sorry, but like, I don't

517
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,240
know how to, I don't know how to
laugh anymore.

518
00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:02,520
And the poem just sort of
switches between those two

519
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:04,640
tensions.
So yeah.

520
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,240
And I guess we ended up winning
as well.

521
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:08,560
There it.
Is there?

522
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,240
It is.
Both on the party is.

523
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,240
Excellent.
And I know Bernadette's team

524
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,440
came second.
So that's the whole, yeah, the

525
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:15,880
whole picture there.
Well done.

526
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,280
It was really fun, like our
dressing room vibes were

527
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,440
Immaculate as well because like
while the poems were pretty

528
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,240
intense, I think that we just,
we kept it really light and

529
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,480
really fun and really relaxed.
Like I, I actually have a

530
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,440
recording of when I went to go
change in the bathroom and I

531
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,440
could just hear them.
I hear, I hear someone start

532
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,440
like singing and like, you know,
clicking and I'm like, what is

533
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,000
going on?
And I just hear evil used to

534
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:47,200
have an aura.
And they're just sort of like

535
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,760
singing our poem like a sea
shanty or something like that.

536
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,240
And I think that pretty much
embodies like the attitude of my

537
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,040
team.
So we've we've become really

538
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,120
close.
Like we featured last night at

539
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,840
Enough Said Poetry Slam as a
group in Wollongong.

540
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,160
And yeah, I feel like I'm, I
always joke to them.

541
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,680
I feel like I'm part of The
Beatles or The Wiggles when I'm

542
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:16,040
when I'm with them, yeah.
Both great groups to be a part

543
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:20,040
of I'm sure.
I really like what you said

544
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,720
about humour there.
Yeah, it does feel like a

545
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,000
particularly humorless time at
the moment.

546
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:29,600
But I think, you know, I think
art more broadly and comedy have

547
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,240
a lot to offer us in this stage.
It's the start of Melbourne

548
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:34,960
International Comedy Festival at
the moment.

549
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,800
I don't know if you saw on the
news, but they had to cancelled

550
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,240
like the opening All Stars gala
or whatever 'cause someone died

551
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,360
in the audience while it was
happening.

552
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,280
So yeah, we're, we're all after,
you know, a little bit of, of,

553
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,640
of humour, but things like this,
yeah, keep happening.

554
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,080
I suppose it's.
It's right.

555
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:59,440
Now, in the lead up to the Grand
Slam, both of you were involved

556
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:04,760
with putting together kind of a,
a little mini doco series called

557
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,840
behind the Poem, which you were
both featured on.

558
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,440
But you, you know, you were both
kind of in the engine room

559
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,240
doing, doing the sound and, and
the the cinematography and, you

560
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,600
know, I, I was watching those in
the lead up and I thought it was

561
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:24,080
very, very, very clean, you
know, very Professh.

562
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,080
What was what was that
experience like, you know,

563
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:31,000
setting up that kind of prelude
to, to the big events?

564
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,480
It's a lot of responsibility.
Well, actually, like, I think

565
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,360
because we're media students as
well, thank you for saying it

566
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,680
was professional because like,
it was a huge, really steep sort

567
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,000
of learning curve for us.
And you know, I think there's

568
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,040
little mistakes in the editing
that only Anna and I sort of

569
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,880
noticed and were like.
Only you know, you know.

570
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:52,760
Only you know.
No one else knows.

571
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,120
Yeah, good.
Yeah.

572
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,800
And I think, well, Annette
actually had the idea, and she

573
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:03,000
created like, a pitch deck and
sent it to Bella Hefter, who's

574
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,520
the host at Bankstown Poetry.
And, you know, as soon as she

575
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,240
sent it, he's like, yeah, like,
I'm on board.

576
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,040
What can we do to support you
guys?

577
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,280
And so it was really well
received and with a lot of

578
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:18,520
support from Bankstown.
The premise behind the series,

579
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,240
in the way that Annette pitched
it, was do you know genius

580
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,040
lyrics?
Oh, yeah, Yeah.

581
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:25,360
Oh, OK.
Yeah, it is.

582
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,240
It is similar in that way.
Oh, that's good.

583
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,280
Yeah.
Yeah, Yeah.

584
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,560
So we're like, you know, what
would a genius lyrics look like

585
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:34,200
but for poetry?
Yeah, I'm into it.

586
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,080
Yeah.
And we created something that we

587
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,200
wanted to see because, you know,
the poet at a slam gets 3

588
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,920
minutes to present their piece,
and then unless you go up and

589
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:44,760
talk to them afterwards, that's
all you'll hear.

590
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,600
And we know that sometimes it
takes months to write a poem,

591
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:53,040
and so much care and craft and
little choices go into the poem

592
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,440
and so.
You know as.

593
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,520
As poets, we want to give
ourselves permission to share

594
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:02,080
art, but then also as students
who study film and all of those

595
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:07,120
things, we wanted to create a
space for other poets to share

596
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:08,920
and speak about their process
too.

597
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:11,760
Yeah.
So we ended up filming at

598
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,720
Whitlam Library in Cabramatta.
They have like such a great

599
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,600
system where you can book their
studio and they lend you the

600
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,680
equipment and the stuff.
They're really nice and

601
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,120
supportive and they'll sort of
help you through everything as

602
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,200
well.
So we, yeah, we ended up filming

603
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,040
over 2 days, but we spent
another two days before the

604
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,800
filming process just like
booking the room and trying to

605
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,320
get to understand all the
equipment and like so many

606
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:42,880
buttons and so many screws,
trying to familiarize ourselves

607
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,280
with.
And Jihad, who's on and it's

608
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,760
team also came to help us out as
well.

609
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,240
Lug the big iconic banks and
poetry rug because we wanted the

610
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,280
rug in the shot.
Yeah.

611
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:59,600
And I think it was just it sort
of solidified part of the work

612
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:04,760
that and I want to do, which is
if we have the means and the

613
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:09,560
privilege to be honest and the
time and the skills to uplift

614
00:34:10,199 --> 00:34:12,360
are the poets voices, then we
want to do that.

615
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:14,840
It was sort of like, you know,
it was, it was self indulgent

616
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,679
for us too, because like these
poets that we admire, we we were

617
00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:21,719
in the same room with them, like
getting to record them and get

618
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,679
an insight into, yeah, the the
behind the scenes or behind the

619
00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:28,080
poem.
Yeah.

620
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,600
And so I think like every single
poet I have like a highlight or

621
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,520
something I learnt from them.
I think the most transformative

622
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:38,840
experience was just seeing
Osama, Osama, NASA come in and

623
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,480
talk about his poem.
Do you remember the name of the

624
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:42,560
poem?
Yeah.

625
00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:48,800
Wish, Wish.
And the poem was about how him

626
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:50,679
and his personal life, he was
doing amazing.

627
00:34:50,679 --> 00:34:54,080
Like, he just got married.
He went on a a trip or like a

628
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,120
fitness retreat or something
like that.

629
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,480
But then October 7th happened
and yeah, he's Palestinian.

630
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,600
Like he's got family going
through the genocide in Gaza.

631
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,240
And he was saying that even
though in his personal life he

632
00:35:05,240 --> 00:35:09,800
was doing so well, you have that
sort of juxtapose with

633
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,480
everything that's going in Gaza
and it's like this weird

634
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,720
disjunct that sort of, it feels
unreal.

635
00:35:16,720 --> 00:35:20,200
And I think I like a lot of
people, especially a summer, you

636
00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:22,960
know, relate to that.
And so, yeah, I think that was

637
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,160
just a really, you know, summer
is so funny as well.

638
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,680
Like he just sort of brightens
like any room he walks into.

639
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,040
And I think that was just, yeah,
it was a really transformative

640
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,440
experience to be behind the
camera for that and just

641
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:39,200
document, you know, his what he
had to say.

642
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,200
It sounds like it was it was
kind of your first time working

643
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,480
with the the whole rig and
whatever, but you wouldn't have

644
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,200
guessed it.
It's such a, you know, an

645
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:50,000
impressive execution of the
vision, like you said, to make

646
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,560
it the genius lyrics of poetry.
I thought it, it flowed really

647
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,400
well.
And I think, you know, got

648
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,560
everyone excited for seeing more
of each artist and seeing them

649
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,280
compete on the big stage.
So, so well done.

650
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:04,480
Well done to you both.
Thank you.

651
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:05,280
Thank you.
Thank.

652
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,320
You now I think we're ready for
piece #2 Bella, this is going to

653
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,800
be your first one.
What do you have for us?

654
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,720
I have a poem that I performed
at National Youth Poetry Slam in

655
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,120
2024.
I should have said this earlier,

656
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,440
but I just want to acknowledge
that like, I'm reading this poem

657
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,480
from Gethigal Country also,
specifically dark Land, where

658
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,400
traditions of storytelling have
persisted for, you know, 10s of

659
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,880
thousands of years.
So yeah, I just want to

660
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,840
acknowledge the traditional and
continuing custodians before I

661
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,400
share my own story.
So this poem is called Sky High.

662
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,480
We have our noses pressed
against the airport window.

663
00:36:49,240 --> 00:36:52,880
This little girl and I, she
asked me, how does it feel to

664
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:57,760
fly, to be sky high?
Like all kids, she's full of

665
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,800
simple questions that adults
can't seem to answer.

666
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,960
At 4, she got a bruise so purple
and dark that she asked if death

667
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:10,040
had made its mark.
At 9, those bruises spread until

668
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,120
her body turned to night,
sparkler in hand.

669
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,600
She asked, why is my brain so
foggy at my own birthday party.

670
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,920
From the magician, she learns
that magic exists only in

671
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,640
escape.
So at 17, she'll run out of

672
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:29,080
questions and out of home,
mazing at a rave, a bit away

673
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:33,200
from her mum's beatings.
But for now, she's dreaming of

674
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:37,680
how she can go higher, go
further, get older.

675
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,520
This little girl and I, we
recently hiked the Fitzroy

676
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,000
Trail.
On the left of the viewing

677
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,760
platform she saw a blue sign
that said we are here for you

678
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:56,200
and a number that read 13/11/14
at 120 metres up.

679
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:00,920
Her eyes followed the water down
down the Cliff to all those

680
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,800
rocks, wondering just how quick
it'd be to step off.

681
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,240
Since then, she became obsessed
with flying.

682
00:38:08,720 --> 00:38:12,160
Flying so high that rock bottom
wasn't even an option.

683
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:19,520
And like an adult who's meant to
have some sort of answer, I hold

684
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,760
this little girl from a future
where the strong ones are the

685
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:27,360
ones who've learned to love.
And I say, maybe don't fly away.

686
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:32,480
You see, the only difference
between a cloud and a castle is

687
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:36,360
who can fall through.
If I may map out your flight

688
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,360
tomorrow, you'll mistake your
bed for bedrock, and resting

689
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:44,240
will leave you restless.
You'll settle for a failing

690
00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:50,160
Monday over a failing country.
You'll cry yourself empty, but

691
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:54,640
even a shell hollowed out can
still recall the ocean.

692
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,760
Rock bottom will feel like a
floor of full stops.

693
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,280
But the thing about full stops
is that you need many to build

694
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,960
an ellipsis, to skip along those
stepping stones to the next

695
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:10,360
sentence, because there are so
many on the other side of the

696
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,640
world.
Someone eyes dilated dials for

697
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,520
help.
Someone puts down the knife.

698
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,760
Someone choosing their life.
Suppose your thoughts were not a

699
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,120
life sentence.
Suppose there were a flight path

700
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,840
to a future where people say
thank you for being here, and

701
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,360
instead of a farewell, you'll
hear a greeting.

702
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:38,480
So for now, we can press our
noses against the airport

703
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:43,440
window, you and I, and we'll
catch our reflection, smiling

704
00:39:43,720 --> 00:39:50,720
from the other side.
Wow, That's, that's outstanding.

705
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:55,600
Yeah.
The Yep, the, the future of, of

706
00:39:55,600 --> 00:40:00,600
poetry in this country is in in
safe hands with, with people

707
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:05,280
such as yourselves.
Now I want to ask about the fact

708
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,720
that you have both been on the
editorial team for the

709
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,960
Unsweetened literary Journal,
the annual literary journal of

710
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,560
UNSW.
So, you know, you have this hand

711
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,360
in, I guess, shaping and
curating other writers works

712
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,880
and, you know, I guess looking
after their babies.

713
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,600
I'm curious how that role in
editing has changed the way that

714
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:32,080
you handle your own writing.
Did you have any thoughts on it?

715
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,800
Yeah, I think that, you know,
editing has forced me to be a

716
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,280
little bit more malleable in a
way.

717
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:43,160
So to me, editing is like the
mid ground between the reader

718
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,720
and the writer because you're
both a reader in that you're

719
00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:50,400
consuming someone else's work,
but you're also contributing

720
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:55,160
your like creative experience
and you're suggesting edits.

721
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:59,240
So it's, it's not quite like a
Co written work because, you

722
00:40:59,240 --> 00:41:02,000
know, it's first and foremost
your author's work.

723
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:07,160
But I, I do think that I, I
think it's nice because, you

724
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,000
know, sometimes if I'm just
focused on my own work, I forget

725
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,400
what it's like to be on the
other side, to be a reader or an

726
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,520
audience member.
And so to be an editor kind of

727
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,560
mediates, mediates the the two
for me.

728
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:27,600
And yeah, I think like editing
with unsweetened in particular

729
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:33,920
is to edit work that is from
people sometimes at that are at

730
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,280
a similar stage in life to you
and a similar stage in their

731
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:43,440
creative journeys to you.
And so it feels like I'm sort of

732
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,560
contributing to like my own
zeitgeist in a way.

733
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,360
You like, you know, how in in
high school you analyse how

734
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,640
there were these like writers,
collectors who were like the

735
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,280
modernist and there were the
romantics.

736
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:59,360
And so me putting in the work to
help other people's writing as

737
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,920
well feels like I'm contributing
to sort of our own collective,

738
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,080
our living and breathing
collective now.

739
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,320
For sure, yeah.
And I think that the work that

740
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,680
comes out of Unsweetened is
quite different to the work that

741
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,720
comes out of something like
Bankstown poetry as well.

742
00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:19,240
I'm not just editing poetry, but
I'm editing prose and I'm

743
00:42:19,240 --> 00:42:22,480
editing different themes as
well.

744
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:31,120
The latest piece I edited was
from a person called Juno in my

745
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:36,840
uni, and her piece was called
something like Advice to the

746
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:41,200
Living from Dead Girl, and it
was structured as like an advice

747
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,760
column from someone who's died
and it was really cool.

748
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,320
It was really experimental and
you can find it on the

749
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,200
Unsweetened website.
It was from last year's issue.

750
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:56,080
But yeah, I think editing,
editing humbles me as a writer,

751
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,080
I would say.
Yeah, no, that's, that's well

752
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:01,160
put.
And Bella, I'm just wondering is

753
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,880
in that editing process, you
know, have you ever had to work

754
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,560
with a writer who you you kind
of you kind of saw that there

755
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:11,760
was something in what they were
sharing, but it just needed a

756
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,160
little bit more, you know, a
little bit more work, a little

757
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:17,280
bit more refinement or or
Polish.

758
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,880
You know, you didn't want to you
didn't want to kind of give them

759
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,840
the the rejection straight away.
Has anything like that come up?

760
00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:27,800
I feel like, and what you just
said there, Andrew, like is the

761
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:34,160
very like crux of editing in
that you're not going into fix,

762
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,800
quote, UN quote, fix a work.
You're going into sort of

763
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,440
sharpen and enhance whatever
intention was there to begin

764
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:43,560
with.
And so a lot of times, like

765
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,880
people who submit to unswedened,
they'll just like submit a draft

766
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:48,280
or just something that's in the
works.

767
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,360
And so sometimes like the
intention comes through

768
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:53,560
subconsciously.
And so as editors, we make it

769
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,720
come out more consciously.
So a lot of people have the

770
00:43:56,720 --> 00:44:00,200
conception that editing is just
like proofreading for grammar

771
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,320
and things like that.
But it's so much more.

772
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,840
We go through stages of, you
know, big structural edits where

773
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,680
at least for me, like a really
important part of the process is

774
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:13,600
meeting up in person, if not
over online with the author and

775
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:19,200
actually dedicating time to have
a chat about, you know, what is

776
00:44:19,240 --> 00:44:20,880
why did you, why did you write
this piece?

777
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:22,000
You know, where did it come
from?

778
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:24,160
What were you reading at the
time?

779
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,040
And why does this piece exist?
You know, what do you want it to

780
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,640
say?
How does it engage in the

781
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,040
discourse that you're
participating in?

782
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,920
And so unpacking the author's
intentions, their vision, their

783
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:41,200
style in order to find ways to
enhance it is, I think, a really

784
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:45,000
humbling experience for me as an
editor because it sort of takes

785
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,840
you out of any sort of tunnel
vision or like solipsism you

786
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,600
might have for what makes good
art, right?

787
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,400
You know, the works that I got
assigned most recently, they

788
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:58,480
were both poems and I was, I was
inspired by them because they

789
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:02,880
were so bold and willing to be,
to break form, to play with

790
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,680
imagery, to scatter things
across the page.

791
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:10,120
And so, you know, the first poem
I edited was by a writer named

792
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:13,840
Chris.
And he wasn't even in a creative

793
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:15,720
writing degree.
He was outside another, he was

794
00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:18,120
in another discipline.
I think it was STEM related.

795
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:20,600
And that's a great thing about
Unsweetened because it's a

796
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:22,640
student publication.
Like everyone comes from

797
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:24,960
different disciplines, which is
often their strength.

798
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:29,240
It's the IT pays to the
uniqueness of their gaze when

799
00:45:29,240 --> 00:45:30,640
they're writing.
Yeah.

800
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:35,080
So he wrote a love poem called
The Briefest Form of Forever,

801
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:40,160
and it was so beautiful and
experimental in the metaphors

802
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:44,840
particularly like he, the
persona compared himself to a

803
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:48,840
camera and a lot of different
things and to a semi colon he

804
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,400
played with.
I love works that play around

805
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,920
with grammar itself and used
grammar like the actual, you

806
00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:00,120
know, semicolons and dashes and
full stops as metaphors in and

807
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,480
of themselves.
And then the second poem that I

808
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,000
looked at was by a great writer
named Pieta.

809
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:09,680
And she wrote and you can tell
how she how creative she is by

810
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:13,240
the title of this poem.
It was called Cassandra Curses

811
00:46:13,240 --> 00:46:16,240
the Sun from the depths of a bar
in New Orleans.

812
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:19,720
Yeah.
And it was it was about this

813
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,400
tradition of, of women that have
been so angry but sort of have

814
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,560
been pushed aside for that
because there's no space to

815
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,680
express that anger.
And yeah, they were both so open

816
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,920
to the editing process.
But you know, like, you're not

817
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,680
there to tell them what to do.
Like, you put a lot of trust in

818
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:37,240
the author.
Like they know what's good for

819
00:46:37,240 --> 00:46:39,320
their work.
So you just plant the questions,

820
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:42,920
you plant the alternatives, you
bring to the light their

821
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,320
intentions behind each line, and
then they'll, they'll do the

822
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,360
rest.
And yeah, it's such a great

823
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:50,320
process.
And like, and I said, like a lot

824
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:53,000
of it is students submitting and
a lot of them are emerging

825
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,920
writers who have never been
through the editing process

826
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,560
before as well.
And so that's always something

827
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:02,320
we like to to keep in mind when
we when we take them through.

828
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:04,360
Yeah.
So it's a rigorous process, but

829
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:08,120
it's also hopefully an enjoyable
process where both the editor

830
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,760
learns something and the author
learns something as well.

831
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,000
And I'm sure that now that
you've, you've seen things from

832
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:17,120
that perspective, you know, it,
it helps to, I guess, sharpen

833
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:18,760
your own work as well.
Precisely.

834
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,840
Yeah, yeah.
Has work already kicked off for

835
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,440
2025's edition, or is that Yeah
yeah.

836
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:27,960
Already into it, Yeah.
Great.

837
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,640
Yeah, we just, we just had a
meeting the other day where we

838
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:34,920
met all of our editors.
We did a little bit of like

839
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,760
editor training as well, which
is good.

840
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,960
Like I think unsweetened, other
than just being a wholesome

841
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:44,400
community, like they do offer
you professional development.

842
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,680
They breakdown the stages of
editing for you, like the

843
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:51,080
difference between structural
edits and copy edits and

844
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:53,360
proofreading.
So we're going to start

845
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,720
accepting submission soon and
doing the selection process.

846
00:47:56,720 --> 00:47:59,520
It's going to be really fun.
This is our, this is our third

847
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,160
year with them and we've
witnessed like 3 different

848
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:05,000
coordinators and they each have
different visions for the

849
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,280
journal.
And so it's, it's really

850
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,360
exciting and it's really
humbling to be the ones to help

851
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:12,120
them achieve that vision as
well.

852
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:13,680
That's sort of like your role as
the editor.

853
00:48:13,720 --> 00:48:16,720
Always you're helping someone
else achieve their vision to the

854
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:21,240
the best that they can.
Great, sounds good.

855
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:25,600
Now I want to talk a little bit
about your relationship with

856
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:28,400
with each other and art.
You know, I'm imagining growing

857
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:32,320
up in the same household as a,
as a sibling who, who's, who's

858
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,440
also creating stuff.
You know, hopefully there

859
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:38,440
weren't too many fights about
like, oh, I, I heard, I read or

860
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:40,880
I heard one of your lines and
now I'm stealing it, you know,

861
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,240
or, or something like that.
Hopefully things were a bit

862
00:48:43,240 --> 00:48:45,960
civil.
But the question I want to know

863
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:51,480
is what is a a dimension or like
an aspect that you both see in

864
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:55,920
your sister's work that you
believe differentiates it from

865
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,680
your own?
It's a, it's a good question.

866
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:05,680
You know, like I'll, I feel like
we're so similar, not

867
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,640
genetically, not just
genetically, but now upbringing

868
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:11,440
as well.
And I think sometimes it can be

869
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:14,120
really hard, like when we go
through the same things and we

870
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,880
write about the same things, and
then, you know, I'll have an

871
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:20,520
idea and then I'll discover that
Bella wrote it first.

872
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:22,920
I'm like, ah, you've got first
dibs on that.

873
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:24,640
You know, I've got to step back.
Yeah.

874
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:26,240
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.

875
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:32,040
And often, you know, we don't
like fight per SE, but we we do

876
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:35,120
have, like, moments of
insecurity at the same time

877
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:37,200
where it's like, oh, you're such
a better writer than me.

878
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:39,560
You said what I wanted to say,
but you said it better.

879
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:46,560
Beside all of that, though, you
know, I think in general, but

880
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:49,840
it's sort of common knowledge
that all, almost all stories

881
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:54,520
have been written before, right?
And the uniqueness of the

882
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:57,400
writing is in how you construct
that same story.

883
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:01,040
And so that principle is
amplified when you're a twin and

884
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:05,240
you literally have the same
experiences as someone else.

885
00:50:05,240 --> 00:50:08,920
And I actually think it's forced
us to be more nuanced, or at

886
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:11,480
least we've tried to shift our
mindset where, you know, if we

887
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:15,200
write some other thing, similar
things, we think, OK, how can I

888
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,480
take the same thing but write it
in a unique way, in a more

889
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:23,240
specific way.
And I think that the way that

890
00:50:23,240 --> 00:50:27,680
our work trajectories have
differentiated, at least lately,

891
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:31,360
is I feel like, and Bella, you
can tell me if you agree.

892
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:36,720
I'm sort of more comfortable
with stage poetry.

893
00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:39,880
Whereas Bella has been doing a
lot of writing for the page and

894
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,480
a lot of like publications for
the page as well.

895
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:48,080
She recently published with DVAN
in their journal Diacritics.

896
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,520
They're like a a Vietnamese
diaspora association in America.

897
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:55,480
And they published a page poem
for her, which is really cool.

898
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,560
And I think, yeah, it's so
funny.

899
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:01,960
I, we always say, I aspire to
Bella's this and you know, vice

900
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,080
versa for me.
I aspire to Bella's, like,

901
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:08,960
brevity on the page and the
concentration of her, like,

902
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:14,200
figurative language as well,
which is something that I feel

903
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,560
like I'm slowly trying to get
back as I shift onto the stage

904
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:22,400
where the drafts are a little
bit more, I guess, in a way,

905
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:27,000
journalistic or just sort of
more conversational because it's

906
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:29,840
different, you know, writing for
page and stage.

907
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:35,360
But yeah, I think sometimes our
similarity is our greatest

908
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:39,480
strength as well.
Well said.

909
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:42,480
What about you, Bella?
What what do you see happening

910
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:46,080
in in the network?
That's that you feel like you

911
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:50,000
aspire to or you appreciate the
the the difference.

912
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:51,840
It's funny because it's like,
it's like an ad said, like

913
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:56,520
sometimes there is not clash,
but overlap in the things we

914
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,160
intended to write.
And, you know, if the other

915
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:01,920
person has gotten their first
and it's, it's a blessing in

916
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:03,960
disguise because it pushes us
into new ones.

917
00:52:04,240 --> 00:52:07,600
But it's also a gift in another
way because sometimes, like we

918
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:10,200
might feel the burden of
representing a certain

919
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:13,680
experience or, you know, feel
the need to document it, but

920
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:15,880
struggle.
And so the other person would do

921
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,960
it for us.
And you know, so there's been

922
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,600
times where I'll write a poem or
and it will write a poem, we'll

923
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:24,840
swap, we'll read.
I was sort of sit back in the

924
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:26,880
chairs and like, thank you, you
said it.

925
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:28,160
I don't need to write this
anymore.

926
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:30,960
Like you did it long time.
Yeah.

927
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:33,560
Wow.
Yeah.

928
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:36,960
But like an Ed said, like it
sometimes is a place of

929
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:41,240
insecurity because I, I think
we've internalized just, you

930
00:52:41,240 --> 00:52:44,880
know, from sometimes the lack of
representation growing up that

931
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:48,760
once one person has said
something, especially if you're

932
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:51,720
representing a very specific
part of like, you know, your

933
00:52:51,720 --> 00:52:54,600
cultural identity or something
like that, then no one else can

934
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:56,040
speak on it.
But I think that's us

935
00:52:56,040 --> 00:53:00,160
internalizing sort of bigger,
bigger structures because we're

936
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:03,280
not used to having as, as kids
anyway, such narrative

937
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,280
planitude.
It's it's different now, now

938
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:08,560
that we've, you know, enter
spaces like BPS.

939
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:12,800
But yes, in terms of differences
that I see between our work,

940
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:16,000
like Annette said, I think just
maybe in the past couple months,

941
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:19,160
the way it's just naturally gone
is that I've been writing a lot

942
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:22,320
for the page and, and it's been
writing a lot for the stage.

943
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:26,880
And so, and it has really, I
think in the last, say, six

944
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:31,320
months, mastered rhythm and
sound in a really concise way.

945
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:35,320
Like she understands syllables
and consonants on a level that

946
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:39,000
just, it makes her poems really
visceral.

947
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:43,520
And so I aspire to that.
And it's very compelling in a

948
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,280
slam space.
And she's also, I've noticed,

949
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:50,920
mastered the ability to take on,
you know, hermit crab forms.

950
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:55,560
They're forms that are sort of
found in the everyday that

951
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:57,840
artists take and sort of
recontextualize.

952
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:00,280
So, you know, it's like it looks
like writing a poem that's

953
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:05,280
structured as a menu, for
example, or in a next case or a

954
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:06,040
tree.
Yeah, yeah.

955
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:11,600
And so in a next case, it was
her writing a poem titled Dear

956
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:15,480
Airbnb Host.
So I really.

957
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:16,840
You know what's, you know what's
funny?

958
00:54:17,720 --> 00:54:20,800
So I actually, I, I got that
from Bella.

959
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:25,520
I got it from when, you know,
like actually we came across

960
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:29,000
hermit crab forms in our, like
in our degree, Rorana Gonzalez

961
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:37,360
and Bella wrote a draft titled I
think, dear, it's like, you

962
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:40,840
know, how at university you can
apply for special consideration.

963
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:45,280
Like, if you're you're
struggling with something, and I

964
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:47,720
hope you, I hope you write this
out before I get to it.

965
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:51,760
But she was writing something
like, you know, Dr. Special

966
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:55,640
consideration officer.
I want to say that there is

967
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:58,720
actually nothing special about
my case, but I'm, I'm going

968
00:54:58,720 --> 00:55:00,560
through like this kind of grief
and that kind of grief.

969
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,560
And so Bella started
experimenting with hermit crab

970
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:07,840
forms.
Maybe I started after that,

971
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:10,200
maybe before that, maybe at the
same time, I don't know.

972
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:14,760
But yeah, then I, I came up with
this poem, the Airbnb host,

973
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:20,320
because every year my friends
and I, we try to plan like an

974
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:26,280
Airbnb trip, except Airbnb, I
came across like this over 25

975
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:29,400
policy in trying to book saying
you have to be over 25,

976
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:33,840
otherwise you're a party risk.
And if you see my friends, we're

977
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:38,680
not party risk at all.
So I wrote a whole poem about

978
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:40,880
that and it was kind of like a
love letter to my friends.

979
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:44,720
I think it's a it's a really
generative form to experiment.

980
00:55:44,720 --> 00:55:47,520
You can do so many different
things with it.

981
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:54,000
And it also like it it, it
reinvents forms that we that we

982
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,040
move through every day, you
know, applying for things,

983
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:01,400
consideration forms, menus,
etcetera.

984
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:04,480
And so, yeah, that's one thing I
admire in and that's poetry that

985
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:08,760
actually inspires me to be more
playful structurally.

986
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,760
She also write a poem that's,
you know, going backwards,

987
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:14,360
backwards in time.
And I.

988
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:16,360
Yeah.
So, you know, and all this is to

989
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:19,160
is to say that we're inspired by
other other artists and poets

990
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:22,240
that have done this before us.
Yeah.

991
00:56:22,240 --> 00:56:25,960
And one thing that just in the
last maybe month that I'm really

992
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:29,640
inspired by for from Annette's
poetry is the willingness to

993
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:35,040
imbue humour in our work and to
be sort of witty and playful.

994
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:38,560
But you use that as sort of an
access point or like, sort of

995
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:41,040
open your arms to your audience
to say, hey, let's laugh

996
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:45,200
together so that we can also
mourn together, breathe

997
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:48,440
together, get angry together.
I think humour is it.

998
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:52,000
It puts people's defenses down.
Yeah.

999
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:55,200
And so, you know, and I was, I
was listening to a podcast

1000
00:56:55,720 --> 00:57:00,000
episode from DVAN, and Stephen
Duong was on there and, you

1001
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,080
know, he's, he's a poet.
He's based in America.

1002
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:06,440
And he's saying, like, you know,
you can't read 50 pages of I'm

1003
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:09,160
sad and I'm depressed.
You have to take care of your

1004
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:12,040
reader and you have to.
I really like this, he said,

1005
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:13,920
Your poetry has to be full of
life.

1006
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:16,240
Yeah.
And I think.

1007
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:17,920
And that embodies that really
well.

1008
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:21,320
It's moments like these, moments
like these, I do feel like the

1009
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:24,640
younger sister.
I feel very taken care of again.

1010
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:26,280
I.
Got this idea from you?

1011
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:27,800
Oh, I didn't even know.
That how did.

1012
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:31,520
That happen yeah, very good I
want.

1013
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:33,160
To spend.
Some time like.

1014
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:35,440
Dreaming, I guess with the the
two of y'all.

1015
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:39,360
I want to know what what your
ambitions and what your I guess

1016
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:41,440
hopes are for the Sydney spoken
word scene.

1017
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:46,200
You've talked about living so
close to kind of the the hot

1018
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:48,600
zone or the epicentre of of
where it's happening in in

1019
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:51,000
Bankstown.
But you know, I've talked a bit

1020
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:54,800
on the show about, you know, I
want every gig in Melbourne to

1021
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:58,400
be like booked out people
hanging from the rafters.

1022
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:03,560
You know, it'd be great if if
you know, a spoken word can can

1023
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:07,400
just get more exposure and, and
understanding and resourcing and

1024
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:09,160
opportunity.
Yeah.

1025
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:12,440
I'm just wondering what's what
are your hopes and dreams for

1026
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:16,720
for Sydney's spoken word?
It's interesting because.

1027
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:21,160
The spoken word scenes that
we've been exposed to here have

1028
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:27,960
already pushed what I thought
was possible, such as, yeah,

1029
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:31,000
like such as with Bankstown
poetry, the idea that this

1030
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:35,560
community in Bankstown can
relocate to like Sydney Town

1031
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:40,360
Hall or the Sydney Opera House
and can sell out to like 2000

1032
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:42,680
people.
I know that they're the biggest

1033
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:46,640
slam in the western in the
Southern Hemisphere as well.

1034
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:51,840
And I just, it's like you, like
I, I do want it to grow even

1035
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:54,280
more, if that's possible.
I think that's.

1036
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:57,840
Something that well, for for
one, I think that they should

1037
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:01,840
get paid because they volunteer,
run and they do so much work.

1038
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:03,720
Sorry, can you?
Can you look straight into the

1039
00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:06,560
barrel of the camera?
And say that again, you should

1040
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:08,960
get paid.
People need to pay you.

1041
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:11,800
Should get paid.
Absolutely, Absolutely.

1042
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:14,360
Pay your artist, people.
Yeah.

1043
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:18,000
Sometimes I wonder like you.
Know if if there was money in

1044
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:19,880
this would the slam?
Still.

1045
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:24,240
Have the same Genuity if people
were doing this for money, but I

1046
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:27,720
also think at the same time,
they deserve to be paid to at

1047
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:32,200
least like have a sustainable
living of this kind of this kind

1048
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:36,320
of work.
But so that's, that's one thing

1049
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:40,160
I have hoped for.
And then I think just for me

1050
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:44,400
personally, I, I want to find
more fellow Vietnamese spoken

1051
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:46,840
word poets, you know, going to
Bankstown.

1052
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:50,480
I see how Sarah Mansour and
Bilal have to have cultivated

1053
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:54,080
like such a space for the Muslim
community specifically.

1054
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:57,960
And, you know, we're not Muslim,
but we've been welcomed into

1055
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:01,240
that as non-Muslims with open
arms.

1056
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:05,640
And I can see how like they
greet each other, how they're

1057
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:09,240
just so unapologetic in their
identity that I'm I'm almost

1058
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:12,000
jealous.
Like I, I wish we sort of had

1059
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:13,640
that for the Vietnamese
community.

1060
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:18,160
And I am starting to find it
through people like do you know

1061
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:20,160
Vivian Pham, she wrote the
coconut children.

1062
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:23,120
I'm not familiar.
Tell me more.

1063
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:27,560
Yeah, so she she published.
With Penguin Random House that

1064
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:32,400
like some crazy age 1617
something like that a novel set

1065
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:36,520
in Cabramatta and she's done so
much work since then and she's

1066
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:39,720
offered us opportunities.
She has a behind the poem

1067
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:41,400
episode.
If you want to learn more about

1068
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:43,400
her, I'd recommend do you listen
to her speak.

1069
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:49,000
So I've, I've found people like
her, Sheila Femme who has, she's

1070
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:51,000
like everything she's done so
much.

1071
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:55,960
She's been in this scene for,
I'm not sure like 2020 years

1072
01:00:55,960 --> 01:01:00,760
now, something like that.
And it's people like her that

1073
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:03,040
embodies something that Sarah
Minsour said.

1074
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:07,080
Sarah Minsour's the Co founder
or founder of Bankstown poetry.

1075
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:12,920
And she has this ethos of, you
know, muscle your way into the

1076
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:16,480
literary Canon and bring people
with you.

1077
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,160
And I feel like Sheila Femme
embodies this.

1078
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:23,760
You know, she's made it to the
top, but she, the work that she

1079
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:27,480
does is focused on highlighting
voices such as ours, like we're

1080
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:29,480
emerging Vietnamese writers as
well.

1081
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:32,520
And so she's she's made it.
She's made it in life, but she's

1082
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:37,200
bringing us along with her.
But yeah, just like in terms of

1083
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:41,600
where I want the spoken word
scene to go, I guess just more

1084
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:43,560
of that, just more of that.
Yeah.

1085
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:46,200
Yep.
Just more of it.

1086
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:46,880
Fill up the.
Plate.

1087
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:50,200
Let's go, let's go.
What about you, Bella?

1088
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:53,040
Yeah, I agree.
Like more of what's going?

1089
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:57,840
On like, you know, continued
diversity of styles actually,

1090
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:01,880
rather than because I find
there's no one slam style, which

1091
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:04,480
is really cool.
And I think, you know, Bilal

1092
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:08,480
said what makes Bankstown Poetry
Slam so great is that there's

1093
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:11,840
never one voice that represents
it, which I think it's really

1094
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:13,560
cool.
And you know what you were

1095
01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:16,520
saying Andrew before about, you
know, I wish in Melbourne like

1096
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:19,760
we sell out all these seats and
you know, everyone, everyone

1097
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:22,080
just like wants to come.
And I think that's such a great

1098
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:24,120
thing.
But I think like the, what

1099
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:28,320
makes, you know, spaces like
Bankstown Poetry Slam so

1100
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:32,280
powerful is that it doesn't
matter if it's ten people in the

1101
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:37,200
room or 2000 people in the room,
they're focused on connecting

1102
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:40,880
with whoever's in front of them.
And So what I find is that,

1103
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:46,960
yeah, Bankstown compels people.
Like it draws people in rather

1104
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:51,400
than trying to reach outside in
order to call out to non

1105
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:55,200
audience members.
So they, because they're so

1106
01:02:55,200 --> 01:03:01,720
assertive and proud and yeah,
they, they draw the attention of

1107
01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:05,320
onlookers and then they they
welcome anyone who who does come

1108
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:08,280
in like they welcome to be in it
so quickly, you know?

1109
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:11,080
Yeah.
So I think that's the power of

1110
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:13,200
that.
And I think.

1111
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:14,760
You know we're talking about
money.

1112
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:18,880
Before and paying artists and I
think like you know in an ideal

1113
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:27,240
world poetry slams survive and
thrive off crowdfunding yeah and

1114
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:28,520
you know so that.
Way there can.

1115
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:33,280
Continue to be that sense of
community and sharing and

1116
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:36,640
exchange in the foreground
rather than say something like

1117
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:39,720
competition.
Bilal always says when he hosts

1118
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:41,920
the poetry slam, the point is
the point.

1119
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:46,760
No, the point is not the points,
the points is the poetry, right?

1120
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:49,840
The points are just an excuse
for us to come together and

1121
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:51,920
share poems.
And I think that's a really

1122
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:56,840
important principle to to guide
us forward in in just poetry

1123
01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:59,600
slams in Australia.
And also what I want to see is

1124
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:01,240
just continuing the little
traditions.

1125
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:04,240
I know all these slams have
their own little phrases, things

1126
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:06,600
like that.
Wait, can I swear or No.

1127
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:12,120
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Go for it.

1128
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:14,320
So, yeah.
So like, you know, and I at

1129
01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:16,320
least some poetry signs across
Sydney, what I've noticed is

1130
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:19,640
that if someone gets up on stage
and they say like, oh, I just

1131
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:22,840
rode this on the train on the
way here, everyone in the

1132
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:26,440
audience will be like, no shit.
And then so there's little

1133
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:29,520
traditions like that, yeah, that
I just want to see continued.

1134
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:33,040
I think that's so cool.
But also that like going forward

1135
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:35,960
in terms of ambitions and hopes
for the spoken word scene.

1136
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:42,680
I think as a community, a like
we continue, yes, to take care

1137
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:45,360
of each other and BI think what
comes with that is that we

1138
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:48,560
continue to be critical,
critical within our own

1139
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:51,720
communities and open with each
other.

1140
01:04:52,040 --> 01:04:54,080
I just watched a movie called
House Moving Castle.

1141
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:57,960
I know I'm late to the scene.
Like, I've been sleeping on this

1142
01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:00,360
movie.
But I think, like, because in

1143
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:06,520
that movie, you have a community
of magicians and witches, so, IE

1144
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:11,320
people who use magic to create
and change reality.

1145
01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:15,360
And is that not reflective of
what artists are responsible for

1146
01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:16,000
as well?
Right.

1147
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:19,080
Yeah.
And so how as an artist is

1148
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:23,320
exercising his magic in order to
confront war, and it takes its

1149
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:27,120
toll on him because he starts to
lose parts of himself and

1150
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:30,200
because in servicing this
greater 'cause he doesn't let

1151
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:33,320
himself be grounded in the
relationships around him.

1152
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:37,160
And there's just a great quote
in there where Hal says my own

1153
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:40,600
kind attacked me today.
Wizards that are masquerading

1154
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:45,000
AS1 stands for the king.
And so I think that's a good

1155
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:48,400
reminder that as a community of
art is to have the

1156
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:51,280
responsibility not only to
reflect culture, but challenge

1157
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:53,520
culture.
We need to be critical of each

1158
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:55,720
other and hold each other
accountable.

1159
01:05:56,240 --> 01:05:58,600
If we're circumventing some
ideas, if we're not cutting

1160
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:02,520
through a lot of the sort of BS
that's around us, I think

1161
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:05,040
there's challenges to that as
well in terms of, you know.

1162
01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:09,040
Everyone's grappling with kind
of cancel culture and, and

1163
01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:10,480
whether that's a good thing or
not.

1164
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:17,160
So some way to to kind of hear
each other out without, without

1165
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:20,600
exiling one another for for this
or that I think is is really

1166
01:06:20,600 --> 01:06:23,480
important.
Like we've been talking about,

1167
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:25,560
you know, Bankstown's been going
for for 10 years.

1168
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:27,800
So it takes time to to build
community.

1169
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:32,000
You know, you have very, very
charismatic, savvy leaders as

1170
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:33,760
well.
You're mentioning that there are

1171
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:39,560
other kind of cultural ties
within the group which kind of

1172
01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:42,000
reinforce it.
So so these things take time,

1173
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:44,840
you know, and, and you see, you
know, especially in Melbourne,

1174
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:48,480
we've seen some older events
kind of start to wind down and

1175
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:51,840
some some new ones come up now.
And, and one in particular is

1176
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:54,640
kind of exploding.
We also do that that new shit

1177
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:57,360
thing down here in Melbourne.
So I'm not sure if that made its

1178
01:06:57,360 --> 01:07:00,800
way down the East Coast or, or
where that originated, but yeah,

1179
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:02,640
it's always, it's always good
fun.

1180
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:05,280
Is there a slam in Melbourne
that you would recommend us and

1181
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:06,400
visit?
The next time we're in

1182
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:10,120
Melbourne, Yeah, great question.
So.

1183
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:15,680
There are now way more open mics
than slams necessarily.

1184
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:18,520
Cool.
All right, yeah, probably the

1185
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:22,440
two that are that are blowing up
and that that are the place to

1186
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:24,160
be.
I mean, one of them I'm going to

1187
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:26,280
this weekend, it's called slam
to Dote.

1188
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:31,040
Shout out slam to dote.
Again, more of an open mic

1189
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:34,320
thing, but just a, a really
vibrant community who have very,

1190
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:40,080
very quickly like built a built
momentum and kind of a vision.

1191
01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:42,840
And they're always, you know,
fundraising for, for one thing

1192
01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:44,360
or another.
So I think it's, it's really

1193
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:47,200
exciting to see something like
that take off in the northern

1194
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:49,800
suburbs.
The other one is, you know, the,

1195
01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:54,400
the recent return, I suppose,
of, of word craft run by our,

1196
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:58,960
our friend Ren Rapture.
And that has also evolved in, in

1197
01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:03,800
the time that it's kind of been
off air, so to speak, into more

1198
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:06,200
of a, a bit more of a variety
night.

1199
01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:10,520
I mean, we have people doing
doing music and comedy and kind

1200
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:13,120
of other forms.
It's, it's expanded it's scope

1201
01:08:13,120 --> 01:08:15,720
in that way.
And I think that's really cool

1202
01:08:15,720 --> 01:08:18,200
to to see.
So again, seeing like growth and

1203
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:20,880
and transformation there.
So those are probably the big

1204
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:23,720
two.
I mean, there are, you know,

1205
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:27,960
there's at least a dozen more
kind of smaller ones happening

1206
01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:31,279
in bars, you know, weekly or
monthly all over Melbourne.

1207
01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:36,040
But yeah, I I'd just love to
see, I just love to see the

1208
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:39,600
people that run these things
kind of, you know, provided for

1209
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:44,319
and and taken care of so that
these things can can, can build,

1210
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:46,880
I suppose.
And yeah, maybe there there.

1211
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:50,800
I think there definitely is
space for more of a slammy kind

1212
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:54,080
of structure to come in.
And I guess we'll we'll see

1213
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:56,640
whether that that happens.
So, so, yeah.

1214
01:08:56,920 --> 01:08:58,560
Are you down in Melbourne soon?
Ish.

1215
01:08:59,399 --> 01:09:01,479
We were just there.
We were just there.

1216
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:06,200
In February, yeah, we went to.
AI think an underground like.

1217
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:09,120
Music Lounge, which was really
cool.

1218
01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:11,399
I wish we actually had that.
We probably have that in Sydney,

1219
01:09:11,399 --> 01:09:15,600
but because we just came from,
Do you remember when they were

1220
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:19,040
doing the Candlelight concerts?
I think in like the Square or

1221
01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:21,439
something?
And we just came from, I forgot

1222
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:23,880
his name, but the guy who sings
Eagle Rock, do you know that

1223
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:26,160
guy?
Oh, Ross Wilson.

1224
01:09:26,279 --> 01:09:27,880
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, we.

1225
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:30,720
Just came from him.
And like we, it was just by

1226
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:33,840
chance that we happened to be
there the same the one night

1227
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:36,000
that he was performing.
And I'm like, wow, this is

1228
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:37,640
crazy.
Let's keep going with this.

1229
01:09:37,640 --> 01:09:41,200
Like this music night.
Bella, do you remember what the

1230
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:43,840
bar was called?
I don't, I don't.

1231
01:09:44,399 --> 01:09:45,279
I wish I did.
It was pretty.

1232
01:09:45,279 --> 01:09:47,399
Cool there.
Yeah, it's cool, yeah.

1233
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:49,680
And look those those cool
underground.

1234
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:52,279
Underground bars, yeah, they are
a bit of a dime a dozen in

1235
01:09:52,279 --> 01:09:53,399
Melbourne, but they're pretty
cool.

1236
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:57,400
There's, oh, there's one that
has like a secret bookcase that

1237
01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:00,040
if you like, lean against it,
opens to like a secret bath.

1238
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:03,400
That's a pretty cool one.
I'm not telling you where it is,

1239
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:06,600
though.
No, Ned.

1240
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:10,040
I think we're ready.
For your second and final piece

1241
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:14,640
to bring us into the next stage.
OK, so this this poem is.

1242
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:19,560
Called Burial Rites, and it's
one I've performed at the

1243
01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:24,440
September 24, 2024 Bankstown
Slam and then the National Youth

1244
01:10:24,440 --> 01:10:28,600
Slam in 2024 as well.
We're gathered here today

1245
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:33,000
because every few months my
parents attend the funerals of

1246
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:37,360
people they've never met.
Their friend's mother, brother,

1247
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:42,160
great grandfather.
In Vietnamese culture, we.

1248
01:10:42,160 --> 01:10:45,360
Attend the funerals of.
People we never knew to let

1249
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:49,960
their loss be known.
I'm gathered here today to spare

1250
01:10:49,960 --> 01:10:52,840
a whole stage for my grieving
friends.

1251
01:10:52,840 --> 01:10:58,480
Because a genocide spares no one
and no time for mourning.

1252
01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:02,600
But if I could catch that.
Millisecond.

1253
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:07,160
Between two machine gun bullets,
that breast that's held before a

1254
01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:10,640
bomb drops, I would stretch and
inflate it like a single

1255
01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:15,560
balloon, hand it to you and say
here it is a moment for you to

1256
01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:18,760
grieve.
A moment.

1257
01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:21,080
For Abu Amar, whose job it is
to.

1258
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:24,600
Clean bodies for Mass burial at
the AL Aqsa Martyrs Hospital.

1259
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:29,320
Day in, day out, he wrings out
that bloody cloth as if he were

1260
01:11:29,320 --> 01:11:33,920
an accordion, so swollen from
inhaling decay and love and

1261
01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:40,200
loss, yet he still exhales the
music of prayer, a moment

1262
01:11:40,200 --> 01:11:42,200
between ads.
At the Super Bowl for the.

1263
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:45,920
Man outside a burning tent in
Rafa, holding the body of little

1264
01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:49,640
Ahmad like a football, like he's
paying someone else's karmic

1265
01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:51,760
debt.
A moment to realize that only a

1266
01:11:51,760 --> 01:11:54,920
colonizer would dare us to try
to see eye to eye with a

1267
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:58,280
headless child.
A moment for you, my friend,

1268
01:12:00,320 --> 01:12:03,080
You, who is always.
Being chased by the lights.

1269
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:07,160
Of breaking news, the headline
is that your.

1270
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:10,960
Government is afraid.
You'll terrorize Sydney with

1271
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:14,480
your tears.
He's the kind of guy who might

1272
01:12:14,480 --> 01:12:18,520
stumble into a funeral and
mistaken it for a conspiracy.

1273
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:22,720
Cole, your grief.
Insensitive, irrational,

1274
01:12:23,120 --> 01:12:27,240
inflammatory.
But the moment is yours, my

1275
01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:31,440
friend, to either pick up the
megaphone or rest it on the

1276
01:12:31,440 --> 01:12:34,640
floor while we gather here today
for Armani Alfour.

1277
01:12:36,360 --> 01:12:37,800
Armani, you said that you
didn't.

1278
01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:39,080
Even hear the missile.
Drop.

1279
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:43,680
Before they made a grave of your
walls, they could only salvage

1280
01:12:43,680 --> 01:12:46,160
your mother's arms.
Maybe.

1281
01:12:46,400 --> 01:12:50,200
That is to say, they salvage the
parts of her that never stopped

1282
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:54,960
reaching for you.
A moment for the other 30. 9 in

1283
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:57,640
that.
House that list of names

1284
01:12:57,640 --> 01:13:01,240
rolling, rolling like end
credits to an empty cinema.

1285
01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:04,760
But the cinema isn't empty
because in Vietnamese culture we

1286
01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:08,400
attend the funerals of people we
never knew to let their lust be

1287
01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:11,120
known.
And this room alone is full of

1288
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:15,000
people who could make these
millisecond moments so moving

1289
01:13:15,160 --> 01:13:20,360
that they become movements.
Yeah, very.

1290
01:13:20,360 --> 01:13:22,240
Nice.
Very, very nice.

1291
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:28,600
All right, now let's have a
quick chat about the creative

1292
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:30,760
process and the mystery that it
is.

1293
01:13:31,080 --> 01:13:34,120
I'm just wondering how would,
but how would both of you

1294
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:38,040
describe your creative process,
your actual way of, of putting a

1295
01:13:38,040 --> 01:13:41,840
piece together from the page to
the stage, as it were?

1296
01:13:42,160 --> 01:13:46,880
And within that, you know, most
artists, they, they kind of face

1297
01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:50,040
moments of, of creative blocks
or self doubts, you know,

1298
01:13:50,040 --> 01:13:53,840
perfectionism, imposter
syndromes being big for me.

1299
01:13:54,040 --> 01:13:57,440
Take your pick.
You know, within your creative

1300
01:13:57,440 --> 01:14:00,160
process, how do you overcome
those kind of challenges and,

1301
01:14:00,160 --> 01:14:02,000
and, and keep motivated through
them?

1302
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:05,680
Any thoughts about and I've said
it before, right your way

1303
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:09,120
through right?
We don't write to flex that we

1304
01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:12,880
know everything.
We write to confront head on the

1305
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:15,600
things that we don't understand,
but we want to understand a bit

1306
01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:19,480
more and hopefully by being able
to capture it in words, the

1307
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:22,480
whatever we're experiencing is
just a little bit lighter.

1308
01:14:22,760 --> 01:14:25,640
So in terms of you mentioned
imposter syndrome as well, like

1309
01:14:26,040 --> 01:14:28,720
I think as a twin I have
credibility in saying that like

1310
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:30,840
I also experienced imposter
syndrome.

1311
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:34,840
When it comes to your overcoming
impostor syndrome, I think

1312
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:39,520
confront why it is that you feel
doubts about your own, the

1313
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:43,840
validity of your own voice.
And again, write out why.

1314
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:46,360
Yeah, why you think that is.
I had another point, but I lost

1315
01:14:46,360 --> 01:14:48,600
it.
But in terms of overcome, maybe

1316
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:50,160
you'll get it in it.
Maybe you'll pick it up.

1317
01:14:50,920 --> 01:14:53,600
Cosmic link.
Cosmic Link.

1318
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:57,560
But in terms of?
Overcoming artist blocks.

1319
01:14:57,640 --> 01:15:03,040
I think the motivation for me to
create lightly has turned more

1320
01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:08,240
into an imperative.
Like at a time when you know,

1321
01:15:08,680 --> 01:15:12,960
our government and institutions
are silencing or shaming artists

1322
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:16,360
and academics and even
journalists, we need to make

1323
01:15:16,360 --> 01:15:18,760
ourselves visible.
Like that's an imperative.

1324
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:21,560
And there's no time to make
ourselves small.

1325
01:15:21,880 --> 01:15:26,320
Like we need to permit ourselves
artistry if we if we want to

1326
01:15:26,320 --> 01:15:29,720
hold on to our humanity and and
our agency.

1327
01:15:30,200 --> 01:15:35,040
Luca Lesson, a spoken word poet,
He he said something years ago

1328
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:38,520
that stuck with me since he said
that, you know, artists, the

1329
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:42,000
world is becoming an ugly and
robotic and violent place.

1330
01:15:42,360 --> 01:15:45,800
Let your art be one of the
reasons people still want to get

1331
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:50,040
up in the morning lately.
You know, I've been through

1332
01:15:50,040 --> 01:15:52,560
blocks before, but within the
last year it's not as common to

1333
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:55,720
me because, yeah, it's that the
moral imperative to write.

1334
01:15:56,320 --> 01:15:58,600
So, you know, before that I
would have said something like

1335
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:02,040
if you are, if your relationship
to writing has turned sort of

1336
01:16:02,040 --> 01:16:06,800
sour and felt more like labour,
and sometimes writing is labour.

1337
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:10,040
But you know, in that case,
like, let yourself be playful in

1338
01:16:10,040 --> 01:16:11,680
your writing, so.
Because.

1339
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:14,160
Oftentimes the block feels like
we're just creating the same

1340
01:16:14,160 --> 01:16:16,640
thing over and over again.
So let yourself be playful.

1341
01:16:16,640 --> 01:16:18,160
Do something you wouldn't
usually do.

1342
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:21,280
Write something silly.
Here's the writing prompts for

1343
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:23,320
you.
Listen to Olivia Rodrigo's song

1344
01:16:23,480 --> 01:16:27,160
Ballad of a Home School Girl and
write everything that makes you

1345
01:16:27,160 --> 01:16:30,160
want to just die socially in a
social setting.

1346
01:16:30,160 --> 01:16:34,160
So that's that's the writing
prompts for anyone listening.

1347
01:16:34,440 --> 01:16:37,680
But when I get stuck, I read
poetry, I read other people's

1348
01:16:37,680 --> 01:16:40,280
works so that I can nourish my
own mind.

1349
01:16:40,280 --> 01:16:43,800
And oftentimes, like inevitably
I'll want, I'll be inspired to,

1350
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:46,400
to write something if I'm
reading something or watching

1351
01:16:46,400 --> 01:16:50,040
something or listening to, to
music, for example.

1352
01:16:51,440 --> 01:16:55,360
And also I feel like there's
this false conception that if

1353
01:16:55,360 --> 01:16:58,560
you're, if you have a writer's
block, you need to push your way

1354
01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:00,760
through it all the time.
Sometimes, you know, you do need

1355
01:17:00,760 --> 01:17:03,480
to take a step back from
writing, especially if you're

1356
01:17:03,560 --> 01:17:05,520
you're young, you're a young
writer like us.

1357
01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:08,200
Like take a break until you
feel.

1358
01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:10,640
Compelled to write.
Again, and don't put the

1359
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:13,320
pressure on yourself, Yeah, to
keep writing.

1360
01:17:13,520 --> 01:17:17,720
Focus on living your life is the
advice that Sheila Pham gave me.

1361
01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:19,760
Live your life.
Prioritize loving your friends

1362
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:23,040
and family.
And to quote Annette, we live

1363
01:17:23,040 --> 01:17:26,000
poetry before we write it.
So take that break.

1364
01:17:26,240 --> 01:17:29,080
Let yourself take that break if
that's what you need.

1365
01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:31,480
One more tip I have revisit your
why?

1366
01:17:31,640 --> 01:17:33,520
Why are you writing?
You know who, who are you

1367
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:35,040
writing to?
Who are you writing to?

1368
01:17:35,360 --> 01:17:39,080
Because then that sort of gets
us out of the our tendency to

1369
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:44,840
fall back on certain topics and
traumas, like we tend to fall

1370
01:17:44,840 --> 01:17:46,960
back on certain things when
we're in creative blocks.

1371
01:17:47,120 --> 01:17:49,480
So just revisit.
Yeah, you know who?

1372
01:17:49,480 --> 01:17:51,480
What kind of what kind of work
do you want to do?

1373
01:17:51,480 --> 01:17:53,560
Like, what do you want to say to
people that you haven't said

1374
01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:56,080
before?
So there's that's my little

1375
01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:58,520
arsenal of tips that I that.
I have so.

1376
01:17:58,520 --> 01:18:00,760
Much good stuff there.
Everything from, you know.

1377
01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:04,520
You mentioned Luca, you know, he
knows, he knows how to put it.

1378
01:18:04,560 --> 01:18:07,040
He knows how to to make it like
pithy.

1379
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:10,800
But also, yeah, I, Olivia
Rodrigo.

1380
01:18:11,480 --> 01:18:14,040
Rodrigo who's probably, you
know, inspired a whole new

1381
01:18:14,040 --> 01:18:18,800
generation of, of, of artists
and poets through her work.

1382
01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:21,960
So, so good on it.
What about you, Annette?

1383
01:18:21,960 --> 01:18:24,800
What is it like dancing with the
writer's block?

1384
01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:31,720
Sometimes, Yeah.
I think that, Bella said a

1385
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:35,200
little bit.
I think that, you know, my, my

1386
01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:40,240
high school teacher told me if
you're overthinking writes, if

1387
01:18:40,240 --> 01:18:44,720
you're under thinking, read when
I'm under thinking or I'm

1388
01:18:44,720 --> 01:18:48,160
experiencing writers block.
Yeah, I consume, right.

1389
01:18:48,160 --> 01:18:51,600
So I've got Bella and I have
like a quote of the day Discord

1390
01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:54,920
server where we put it's got
everything it's got.

1391
01:18:55,360 --> 01:18:57,120
We've divided it into different
threads.

1392
01:18:57,120 --> 01:19:03,840
So song lyrics, literature, gym
quotes, be uncomfortable, No, be

1393
01:19:03,840 --> 01:19:07,160
comfortable in the uncomfortable
quotes from film and TV.

1394
01:19:07,160 --> 01:19:11,600
And it's just sort of like a
rich depository for when you're

1395
01:19:11,920 --> 01:19:14,240
experiencing writer's blog.
And I think the best thing is

1396
01:19:14,240 --> 01:19:16,000
just to consume other people's
work.

1397
01:19:16,320 --> 01:19:20,400
And another sort of little like
depository I've got is a Spotify

1398
01:19:20,400 --> 01:19:24,720
playlist inspired by Bella's
Spotify playlist called Lexical

1399
01:19:24,720 --> 01:19:27,600
Legends.
I've created my own called

1400
01:19:27,600 --> 01:19:30,840
Vernacular Visionaries.
It's kind of a RIP off, but it's

1401
01:19:30,840 --> 01:19:34,520
just like songs that I find are
really well written because I

1402
01:19:34,520 --> 01:19:40,160
feel like music has this magical
ability to immediately throw you

1403
01:19:40,160 --> 01:19:43,120
into some sort of emotional
state because it's not just the

1404
01:19:43,120 --> 01:19:45,120
writing, right?
It's like the music as well.

1405
01:19:45,440 --> 01:19:49,560
Just put on your headphones and
throw yourself into like the the

1406
01:19:49,560 --> 01:19:55,000
woes of a boy genius song.
And I think like it can, it can

1407
01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:57,840
get you in touch with the
feeling, the feelings behind

1408
01:19:57,840 --> 01:19:59,720
writing instead of just the
words as well.

1409
01:20:00,200 --> 01:20:02,720
And yeah, just like a stack of
poetry books that I keep

1410
01:20:02,720 --> 01:20:06,000
returning to.
So, you know, I always consume

1411
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:09,040
if I have writer's block.
But it's like what Bella said.

1412
01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:11,000
You know, sometimes you don't
have to.

1413
01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:16,080
Fight so hard to get over that
as a young poet this is OK this

1414
01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:20,560
is the reason why I didn't study
philosophy as a degree and huge

1415
01:20:20,560 --> 01:20:24,280
respects to people who do.
But for me, I found that I, I

1416
01:20:24,280 --> 01:20:28,840
sort of dipped my toes in some
philosophy in high school in

1417
01:20:28,840 --> 01:20:33,600
year 12, and I kind of went down
the rabbit hole of it.

1418
01:20:33,840 --> 01:20:37,520
And at that age, like, you know,
I had experiences, but I also

1419
01:20:37,520 --> 01:20:39,920
haven't experienced a lot of
other things.

1420
01:20:40,240 --> 01:20:43,440
And I spent more time thinking
about life than actually living

1421
01:20:43,440 --> 01:20:45,120
life.
And as a poet, wow.

1422
01:20:45,400 --> 01:20:48,320
You have to, you have to live
life to, to write.

1423
01:20:48,400 --> 01:20:51,120
If you're experiencing writer's
block, maybe it's a sign that

1424
01:20:51,120 --> 01:20:55,880
you have to go live your life,
you know, do things because

1425
01:20:55,880 --> 01:20:59,320
sometimes just just writing,
sitting in a room by yourself

1426
01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:02,000
and writing will make you a
shell of a person.

1427
01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:05,360
You know, it doesn't have to be
a whole identity.

1428
01:21:06,040 --> 01:21:08,320
So I, I just sort of go live my
life.

1429
01:21:08,320 --> 01:21:11,360
I do things that are completely
unrelated to writing.

1430
01:21:11,640 --> 01:21:18,520
That's how I got my Airbnb poem.
Being a party risk exactly being

1431
01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:19,720
a part.
Being a quote UN quote

1432
01:21:19,720 --> 01:21:21,680
stereotyped.
Party risk, right?

1433
01:21:23,640 --> 01:21:28,800
And you know, like as as a poet,
again, Ocean Voom has this great

1434
01:21:28,800 --> 01:21:34,240
quote about how our culture
tends to fetishize the expert,

1435
01:21:35,280 --> 01:21:39,440
fetishize someone who knows
everything and who someone you

1436
01:21:39,440 --> 01:21:42,800
can find as a spokesperson or a
cross section to whatever

1437
01:21:42,800 --> 01:21:44,680
experiences they're having,
right.

1438
01:21:44,680 --> 01:21:50,720
And I think it, it's sort of if,
if you're that spokesperson, it

1439
01:21:50,720 --> 01:21:55,160
pushes you to know everything.
And it's like Bella said, if you

1440
01:21:55,160 --> 01:21:58,600
interrogate the why of the why,
like why you're writing.

1441
01:21:59,160 --> 01:22:03,680
For me, it's shifted my mindset
to think, OK, am I, am I

1442
01:22:03,680 --> 01:22:06,400
searching or am I just stating,
Oh, and Bella's words?

1443
01:22:06,680 --> 01:22:08,880
Am I just flexing, flexing what
I know?

1444
01:22:08,880 --> 01:22:10,840
Like I've discovered that's not
the point.

1445
01:22:10,840 --> 01:22:15,240
And so if I have writer's block,
I'll use poetry as a way to just

1446
01:22:15,240 --> 01:22:19,120
try to discover or like search
for what what it is I'm trying

1447
01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:22,080
to understand.
Because often writer's block for

1448
01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:25,760
me comes as a result of feeling
the pressure to state or to be

1449
01:22:25,760 --> 01:22:29,600
an experts.
And so if I shift my intention,

1450
01:22:29,600 --> 01:22:32,560
maybe that overcomes the
writer's block as well.

1451
01:22:33,480 --> 01:22:35,520
So that's I guess that's my tip
for writer's book.

1452
01:22:35,520 --> 01:22:37,920
And then in terms of actually
formulating the work and putting

1453
01:22:37,920 --> 01:22:42,720
together the work, I often like
document stuff that I experience

1454
01:22:42,720 --> 01:22:44,480
in real life, like in real
timer.

1455
01:22:44,720 --> 01:22:48,120
Every poet has like their notes
up poetry, right?

1456
01:22:48,400 --> 01:22:51,760
So yeah, exactly.
It's a staple nowadays.

1457
01:22:52,880 --> 01:22:56,440
I I put it in my notes app and
then in my writing process, I'll

1458
01:22:56,440 --> 01:22:59,200
change it up so that I protect
the people that I'm close to

1459
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:01,800
because I'd hate for my friends
to think, oh, watch out.

1460
01:23:01,800 --> 01:23:03,280
And that's here.
Be careful what you say,

1461
01:23:03,280 --> 01:23:04,520
otherwise you'll put it in a
poem.

1462
01:23:04,520 --> 01:23:09,600
You know, it's important to
protect the people that we are

1463
01:23:09,600 --> 01:23:12,920
close to, especially if you're
leaning towards like

1464
01:23:12,920 --> 01:23:15,920
biographical writing.
And so that to me is what the

1465
01:23:15,920 --> 01:23:19,320
editing process is.
It's funny because having a twin

1466
01:23:19,320 --> 01:23:22,400
means having a built in editor
as well.

1467
01:23:23,160 --> 01:23:26,800
So actually, like I'm realizing
now a religious part of my

1468
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:30,120
writing process, my final draft
will always go to Bella.

1469
01:23:30,120 --> 01:23:33,280
I'll send her both the document
and the audio recording and I'll

1470
01:23:33,280 --> 01:23:35,720
be like, what do you think?
And vice versa.

1471
01:23:35,720 --> 01:23:37,560
So that's yeah, yeah.
So.

1472
01:23:37,560 --> 01:23:42,160
That's my my writing process.
Wow, so so wise.

1473
01:23:42,160 --> 01:23:44,320
So wholesome.
I feel like you called us all

1474
01:23:44,320 --> 01:23:47,120
out there saying, you know, hey,
you have to live your life.

1475
01:23:47,120 --> 01:23:52,160
You can't just philosophize on,
you know, lying in bed all day.

1476
01:23:52,160 --> 01:23:54,320
And it's like, Yep, Yep, you're
absolutely right.

1477
01:23:54,920 --> 01:23:57,680
I love that you had so many
things that you're doing

1478
01:23:57,680 --> 01:24:01,800
collaboratively to help
yourselves individually in, in

1479
01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:04,520
your own individual work or
whatever you're you're working

1480
01:24:04,520 --> 01:24:07,040
on.
Yeah, love, love what you said

1481
01:24:07,040 --> 01:24:10,480
about music as well.
I would love to like

1482
01:24:10,480 --> 01:24:14,120
collaboratively build like a
writing playlist with the I

1483
01:24:14,120 --> 01:24:16,160
think therefore I slam
community.

1484
01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:21,000
So, dear listener, let me know
in the the comments of the

1485
01:24:21,000 --> 01:24:22,680
episode if you want to get
involved.

1486
01:24:22,680 --> 01:24:25,880
I I think that'd be really cool,
you know, Yeah.

1487
01:24:25,880 --> 01:24:28,520
Boy genius, just me and my dog
and an incredible view.

1488
01:24:28,600 --> 01:24:31,680
That's yeah, yeah.
And.

1489
01:24:31,680 --> 01:24:33,720
Even like I don't.
Think it has to be?

1490
01:24:33,720 --> 01:24:39,040
Like super experimental writing.
I've taken a lot of inspiration

1491
01:24:39,040 --> 01:24:43,400
from the smooth FM songs that
our dad listens to.

1492
01:24:43,400 --> 01:24:47,640
It's like, do you know the song
Making Love Out of Nothing at

1493
01:24:47,640 --> 01:24:50,800
All by Air Supply?
I actually don't.

1494
01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:51,840
I know Air Supply, but I don't
know.

1495
01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:53,560
That particular song?
Sing it, Sing it.

1496
01:24:54,600 --> 01:24:56,840
I can't now I'm not going.
To sing it, you can listen to

1497
01:24:56,840 --> 01:24:59,120
them sing it.
I won't sully your associate.

1498
01:24:59,120 --> 01:25:03,560
I don't want to turn you off the
song, but I just like it's.

1499
01:25:03,560 --> 01:25:06,440
It's the music that you grew up
with that you come back and you

1500
01:25:06,440 --> 01:25:10,160
interrogate their lyrics and
it's such a well written song.

1501
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:10,520
Yeah.
Can.

1502
01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:12,360
Can I just like?
Quickly tell you about it.

1503
01:25:12,840 --> 01:25:15,640
Sure.
So the way that it's the verse

1504
01:25:15,640 --> 01:25:19,520
is structured is this anafra of
I know, I know just how to

1505
01:25:19,520 --> 01:25:20,680
whisper.
I know how to lie.

1506
01:25:20,680 --> 01:25:26,280
I know how to scheme.
And it keeps going to culminate

1507
01:25:26,280 --> 01:25:28,840
into like these two lines at the
end of the course.

1508
01:25:29,280 --> 01:25:32,680
But I don't know how you do it.
Making love out of nothing at

1509
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:35,080
all.
And that's just like, that just

1510
01:25:35,080 --> 01:25:39,960
blew my mind because I associate
it with my dad as well.

1511
01:25:40,360 --> 01:25:43,160
And I think it comes back to the
idea of fetishizing the expert.

1512
01:25:43,160 --> 01:25:47,320
Like, yeah, at this age, we we
know some things we're going

1513
01:25:47,320 --> 01:25:50,720
through our formal education,
but there's some things, I don't

1514
01:25:50,720 --> 01:25:54,040
know where it counts, you know,
there's some things where I

1515
01:25:54,040 --> 01:25:59,960
can't behind, can't hide behind
theories or ideology and some,

1516
01:25:59,960 --> 01:26:03,800
some areas in life where I just
have to learn from people wiser

1517
01:26:03,800 --> 01:26:06,040
than me, such as my parents.
Yeah.

1518
01:26:06,240 --> 01:26:07,520
Wow.
Fantastic reflections.

1519
01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:12,400
I want to know, and this is a
this is a big question, what

1520
01:26:12,400 --> 01:26:17,320
impact do you hope your work has
on people who hear it and

1521
01:26:17,320 --> 01:26:20,720
experience it for me like
lately?

1522
01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:25,520
As we're going up, I see that
sometimes we've like we've

1523
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:30,240
hardened ourselves, our
exteriors and our lives move so

1524
01:26:30,240 --> 01:26:35,040
fast sometimes that we forget to
slow down and do things with

1525
01:26:35,040 --> 01:26:37,280
more intention, say things with
more intention.

1526
01:26:37,520 --> 01:26:40,960
You know, I've seen how
increasingly people get really

1527
01:26:40,960 --> 01:26:43,400
hard on themselves as
expectations start to build as

1528
01:26:43,400 --> 01:26:45,440
you get older.
And when you're hard on

1529
01:26:45,440 --> 01:26:47,680
yourself, it means you're hard
on other people as well.

1530
01:26:48,320 --> 01:26:53,560
And so I want my poetry,
hopefully it's doing this to

1531
01:26:53,560 --> 01:26:58,880
give nuance to emotions and
experiences that we've

1532
01:26:58,880 --> 01:27:01,000
overlooked.
And then so within that

1533
01:27:01,000 --> 01:27:06,320
complexity, I hope people find
find that compassion that we

1534
01:27:06,320 --> 01:27:10,080
need to soften our exteriors and
soften the way we treat

1535
01:27:10,080 --> 01:27:12,400
ourselves as well.
And it has a great phrase that

1536
01:27:12,480 --> 01:27:18,000
is in, I think her bio where she
says I want to locate the global

1537
01:27:18,280 --> 01:27:21,560
in the local.
So she's also, yeah, I'll let

1538
01:27:21,560 --> 01:27:25,720
I'll let her elaborate on that.
For a recent work that I wrote

1539
01:27:25,720 --> 01:27:30,120
for Fairfield Gallery, I was
paired with a visual artist, her

1540
01:27:30,120 --> 01:27:33,880
name is Linda Sock.
And I was reading her artist bio

1541
01:27:33,880 --> 01:27:35,480
and she said something really
cool.

1542
01:27:35,480 --> 01:27:37,720
She was like, she wants to
position.

1543
01:27:37,920 --> 01:27:42,120
So memory, historical or
personal stories, speculations,

1544
01:27:42,400 --> 01:27:47,160
imaginations, historical fact,
all as and I quote equally

1545
01:27:47,160 --> 01:27:50,080
reliable archives, which I think
is so important.

1546
01:27:50,080 --> 01:27:54,120
I think poetry is should be
democratic and not esoteric in

1547
01:27:54,120 --> 01:27:56,320
that way.
Like because, you know, we we

1548
01:27:56,320 --> 01:28:00,640
come from backgrounds where our
parents homes don't exist

1549
01:28:00,640 --> 01:28:03,600
anymore in a certain way and
their histories have been

1550
01:28:04,080 --> 01:28:07,720
overridden in certain ways.
And So what we have to rely on

1551
01:28:07,720 --> 01:28:11,840
to go back is storytelling.
And sometimes it's fictional,

1552
01:28:11,840 --> 01:28:13,000
sometimes it's not.
We don't know.

1553
01:28:13,000 --> 01:28:15,000
That line is blurred.
Yeah.

1554
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:19,680
And so I think that coupled with
the things that and then I might

1555
01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:20,600
be studying.
In.

1556
01:28:20,600 --> 01:28:24,920
Uting out all of these bigger
terms and isms and systems, I

1557
01:28:24,920 --> 01:28:29,760
think they need to be put side
by side and treated with equal

1558
01:28:30,040 --> 01:28:32,240
value.
I guess in the same way that we

1559
01:28:32,240 --> 01:28:35,320
need to treat, you know, the
pathos of poetry equally with

1560
01:28:35,320 --> 01:28:39,400
the logos and ethos of poetry.
And I think also, like, I was an

1561
01:28:39,400 --> 01:28:42,120
adult workshop led by Sara
Monsoon, and she said that, you

1562
01:28:42,120 --> 01:28:46,680
know, your role as poet is to
make life bearable by bearing

1563
01:28:46,800 --> 01:28:50,600
witness to the truth, the great,
the mundane, everything in

1564
01:28:50,600 --> 01:28:52,200
between that.
Yeah.

1565
01:28:52,200 --> 01:28:53,400
Amazing.
Thanks.

1566
01:28:53,600 --> 01:28:56,520
Thanks, Bella.
What about you, Annette?

1567
01:28:57,200 --> 01:28:59,960
Yeah, I think that increasingly
I've wanted to.

1568
01:28:59,960 --> 01:29:05,560
Adopt like an egalitarian
practice in my poetry just

1569
01:29:05,560 --> 01:29:09,680
because again, when you when you
are educated in the works of

1570
01:29:10,040 --> 01:29:13,880
classic writers, when you come
across someone like TS Eliot,

1571
01:29:13,880 --> 01:29:17,640
who I actually, I do find pretty
cool now that I'm thinking about

1572
01:29:17,640 --> 01:29:20,480
here, he's taking a bit of a
beating in this conversation,

1573
01:29:20,520 --> 01:29:23,280
but.
He has no I accept for itself.

1574
01:29:24,080 --> 01:29:27,280
Yeah, no way I do.
I do find.

1575
01:29:27,280 --> 01:29:30,720
Him really cool he's actually he
would be like around our age

1576
01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:34,720
when he wrote his poems, which
is kind of crazy but I do think

1577
01:29:34,720 --> 01:29:38,920
that it was it was hard to get
and even studying, you know

1578
01:29:39,040 --> 01:29:42,600
people like the the Beat
Generation who was so

1579
01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:44,920
experimental.
I Love Actually, I love their

1580
01:29:44,920 --> 01:29:51,320
work, but I, I wonder sometimes
like if the idea of being

1581
01:29:51,320 --> 01:29:54,560
experimental is afforded to
certain communities and not

1582
01:29:54,560 --> 01:29:57,880
afforded to other communities.
The Tanya, when is this

1583
01:29:57,880 --> 01:30:00,760
professor in America, Vietnamese
professor.

1584
01:30:01,360 --> 01:30:06,360
He has this principle in
creative writing of show and

1585
01:30:06,360 --> 01:30:08,840
tell.
So not just show, don't tell,

1586
01:30:09,080 --> 01:30:14,320
but I think he, he specified
that principle to diasporic

1587
01:30:14,480 --> 01:30:19,920
writing in a way.
Because sometimes if some people

1588
01:30:19,920 --> 01:30:24,640
don't have the privilege of just
showing and not putting things

1589
01:30:24,640 --> 01:30:29,120
plainly and simply because like
their, their existence is so

1590
01:30:29,400 --> 01:30:33,680
complicated and not made visible
already that sometimes they do

1591
01:30:33,680 --> 01:30:37,120
have to put things simply.
Sometimes they do have to tell.

1592
01:30:37,280 --> 01:30:41,080
You know, it's got me thinking
sometimes like is it a privilege

1593
01:30:41,080 --> 01:30:44,720
to be super experimental?
You know, everyone, everyone

1594
01:30:44,720 --> 01:30:48,160
listened.
I think everyone listened or now

1595
01:30:48,160 --> 01:30:50,760
listened to the Beat Generation
when they were experimental.

1596
01:30:51,160 --> 01:30:54,920
But if, say, a refugee was
trying to communicate something

1597
01:30:55,760 --> 01:31:00,440
in an esoteric, unfathomable
way.

1598
01:31:00,640 --> 01:31:03,560
Would anyone?
Listen, you know, I hope so.

1599
01:31:03,560 --> 01:31:05,520
I hope so.
But I'm trying to adopt this

1600
01:31:05,520 --> 01:31:09,520
practice of show and tell,
trying to strike that balance

1601
01:31:09,520 --> 01:31:15,080
between being understandable but
also challenging, not didactic,

1602
01:31:15,080 --> 01:31:19,640
not esoteric, and the impact,
you know, I hope it inspires

1603
01:31:19,640 --> 01:31:23,560
someone else to write to.
I also want to leave the

1604
01:31:23,560 --> 01:31:28,200
impression, again, like poetry
is lived before it is written,

1605
01:31:28,600 --> 01:31:32,440
you know, it's not just an art
form, but it's like, it's a

1606
01:31:32,440 --> 01:31:35,600
means in which at least I have
been able to live my life more

1607
01:31:35,600 --> 01:31:39,480
fully and see the people in my
life differently.

1608
01:31:39,480 --> 01:31:43,680
And it's helped me become more
self aware about my culture as

1609
01:31:43,680 --> 01:31:44,960
well.
Like it's a means.

1610
01:31:45,000 --> 01:31:48,280
That's what poetry has done for
me, and that's what I want my

1611
01:31:48,280 --> 01:31:50,320
poetry to do for other people as
well.

1612
01:31:51,120 --> 01:31:53,160
There you go.
What a what an inspiring.

1613
01:31:53,160 --> 01:31:53,960
Yeah.
Yeah, there you go.

1614
01:31:54,200 --> 01:31:56,840
What an inspiring vision, you
know, for from both of you.

1615
01:31:56,840 --> 01:32:00,120
I, I can tell that you've done,
you've really done the work in,

1616
01:32:00,120 --> 01:32:04,120
in thinking through this and
feeling and feeling through all

1617
01:32:04,120 --> 01:32:07,360
of this and being like, hey,
what do I, what do I want to do

1618
01:32:07,800 --> 01:32:12,040
with, with, with what I do here?
Now moving through to the

1619
01:32:12,040 --> 01:32:15,720
overarching analogy that we have
for season 2 of I think

1620
01:32:15,720 --> 01:32:20,360
therefore I slam, I want to know
if your creative work was an

1621
01:32:20,360 --> 01:32:24,840
instrument in an orchestra, a
creative orchestra, what

1622
01:32:24,840 --> 01:32:26,680
instrument do you think it would
be?

1623
01:32:26,680 --> 01:32:29,880
We've already mentioned the
instrument before so that your

1624
01:32:29,880 --> 01:32:31,360
mum's playing.
So I'm interested to see whether

1625
01:32:31,360 --> 01:32:33,120
that might come up or maybe
something else else.

1626
01:32:33,160 --> 01:32:35,600
So what are you thinking?
It's so funny.

1627
01:32:35,600 --> 01:32:37,280
Like when I was with my Grand
Slam group.

1628
01:32:37,400 --> 01:32:39,840
They also use so many musical
metaphors.

1629
01:32:39,840 --> 01:32:43,080
You know, saxophone solo here,
flip solo.

1630
01:32:43,280 --> 01:32:49,320
We're like a band.
I think that at the moment my

1631
01:32:49,600 --> 01:32:56,200
poetry kind of functions as a
piano, which is in a way like.

1632
01:32:56,200 --> 01:33:00,640
It's sort.
Of your staple instrument, one

1633
01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:03,080
that a lot of Asian kids grow up
having to learn.

1634
01:33:03,400 --> 01:33:07,360
And I think that it's, it's,
it's like a bit of a quieter

1635
01:33:07,360 --> 01:33:11,800
instrument, but it also has the
capacity to house so many

1636
01:33:11,800 --> 01:33:14,920
different styles as well.
And so many different like

1637
01:33:15,240 --> 01:33:18,000
tambas.
And so I think like, especially

1638
01:33:18,000 --> 01:33:21,320
when I started out in slam, my
style was sort of very quiet.

1639
01:33:21,800 --> 01:33:25,720
But I've, I'm trying to learn to
find the range within that more

1640
01:33:25,720 --> 01:33:29,120
quiet style.
Hence like a piano, it can be

1641
01:33:29,120 --> 01:33:33,960
piano, it can be Forte, it can
be staccato, it can be smooth

1642
01:33:33,960 --> 01:33:37,960
with the smooth pedal.
And yeah, I think maybe the

1643
01:33:37,960 --> 01:33:40,800
piano, you're so lucky in it
that I was going to say that and

1644
01:33:40,800 --> 01:33:44,480
then I changed my answer.
Yeah.

1645
01:33:44,480 --> 01:33:47,080
OK, so I was, yeah, I was
watching a song by Tricosi

1646
01:33:47,160 --> 01:33:51,040
called The Nutcracker Party that
I learned from Barbie growing

1647
01:33:51,040 --> 01:33:53,120
up.
And within that there's this

1648
01:33:53,120 --> 01:33:57,320
beautiful harpist that sustains
the, the sort of melody.

1649
01:33:57,600 --> 01:34:01,040
And I wanted to say that, you
know, I, I wish my work was like

1650
01:34:01,040 --> 01:34:03,760
the harpist.
I wish, but I don't think in

1651
01:34:03,760 --> 01:34:05,760
reality it is.
There is a poet that is also a

1652
01:34:05,760 --> 01:34:08,760
harpist here in Sydney.
Her name is Ying at on

1653
01:34:08,760 --> 01:34:11,920
Instagram.
She's the harp poet Anyways, but

1654
01:34:11,920 --> 01:34:14,200
I think I'm more like the guy.
There's this guy in the back of

1655
01:34:14,200 --> 01:34:18,280
the orchestra which is like
really big symbols and he only

1656
01:34:18,280 --> 01:34:21,880
comes in at like select times.
And the timing has to be just

1657
01:34:21,880 --> 01:34:25,040
right for him to go.
And then when he hits the

1658
01:34:25,040 --> 01:34:29,360
cymbals, he holds them up like
this so that the sound

1659
01:34:29,360 --> 01:34:32,600
reverberates through the the
thing.

1660
01:34:33,160 --> 01:34:37,160
And so I think I'm realistically
more like that guy where I'm

1661
01:34:37,160 --> 01:34:40,760
happy to come in sort of at the
right time and make my, my, my

1662
01:34:40,760 --> 01:34:43,160
little impact.
And, you know, maybe put the

1663
01:34:43,160 --> 01:34:47,080
poem online or NVIDIA and let it
sort of reverberate in, in the

1664
01:34:47,080 --> 01:34:48,560
back.
But then other than that, I'm

1665
01:34:48,560 --> 01:34:52,840
happy to just sit in the
background and observe the, the,

1666
01:34:52,960 --> 01:34:59,160
the musicians in front of me and
then, you know, do my and then

1667
01:34:59,160 --> 01:35:02,960
settle back in to the back.
Yeah, do the.

1668
01:35:05,120 --> 01:35:07,440
Yeah, yeah, 'cause I think.
About the symbols, which is

1669
01:35:07,480 --> 01:35:09,040
like, I don't know, it's like a
hype.

1670
01:35:09,040 --> 01:35:14,200
Person in the crowd just like
it's it's kind of like I don't

1671
01:35:14,200 --> 01:35:16,280
know if you've.
Seen a live version of Smells

1672
01:35:16,280 --> 01:35:20,120
Like Teen Spirit by Nirvana, but
there's a small performance

1673
01:35:20,120 --> 01:35:23,880
online where there's a guy on
stage who doesn't do anything

1674
01:35:23,880 --> 01:35:27,520
except run around shirtless and
just Just Dance and just vibe.

1675
01:35:27,520 --> 01:35:29,320
He doesn't.
He doesn't play an instrument,

1676
01:35:29,320 --> 01:35:31,240
he doesn't like sing or
anything.

1677
01:35:31,240 --> 01:35:35,520
It's just a hype man or the OR
the music video to I alone by

1678
01:35:35,520 --> 01:35:37,520
live.
Where they've they've got their

1679
01:35:37,520 --> 01:35:39,880
drummer in there, but he has no
drums, so he's just kind of

1680
01:35:39,880 --> 01:35:42,560
there jumping in the background.
It's bizarre.

1681
01:35:43,760 --> 01:35:45,640
So we've.
Got a, a piano and we've got

1682
01:35:45,640 --> 01:35:47,600
some symbols.
Excellent.

1683
01:35:47,600 --> 01:35:50,000
There's going to be some very
interesting piano arrangements

1684
01:35:50,000 --> 01:35:53,320
in this orchestra because I
think you're the third pianist

1685
01:35:53,320 --> 01:35:56,560
to kind of sign up.
So there's going to be there's,

1686
01:35:56,680 --> 01:35:58,640
there's going to be some, some
interesting stuff going on

1687
01:35:58,640 --> 01:36:00,560
there, some layering, but that's
fine.

1688
01:36:00,560 --> 01:36:02,800
We'll, we'll fit you all in.
We'll make space on the stage.

1689
01:36:02,800 --> 01:36:04,240
It's going to be it's going to
be glorious.

1690
01:36:05,520 --> 01:36:10,120
Now moving to the segments
shamelessly ripped from Diary of

1691
01:36:10,120 --> 01:36:13,520
a CEO.
I'm calling it Diary of a POET.

1692
01:36:13,960 --> 01:36:17,160
So you've been left a question
from my previous guest.

1693
01:36:17,600 --> 01:36:19,760
This question comes from Taylor
Richardson.

1694
01:36:19,760 --> 01:36:23,200
And the question is, do you
think a story or poem can ever

1695
01:36:23,200 --> 01:36:26,720
be timeless?
Or does it inevitably belong to

1696
01:36:26,720 --> 01:36:31,200
a specific time, culture, or set
of experiences in which it is

1697
01:36:31,200 --> 01:36:34,800
written?
Big one, it's a good.

1698
01:36:34,800 --> 01:36:37,480
Question you know I.
Think like a poet, a poem.

1699
01:36:37,720 --> 01:36:43,680
It can be timeless.
I think the study of poetry in

1700
01:36:44,160 --> 01:36:47,320
school actively tries to make
you.

1701
01:36:47,360 --> 01:36:50,480
See the timelessness in.
It you know the universal truth,

1702
01:36:50,480 --> 01:36:54,560
but I often find that ignoring
the context in which it was

1703
01:36:54,560 --> 01:36:56,640
written actually takes away its
power sometimes.

1704
01:36:57,480 --> 01:37:01,880
Or sometimes reducing a work to
its universal truths can

1705
01:37:02,440 --> 01:37:06,560
sometimes whitewash it in a way.
Like this was my struggle with

1706
01:37:06,560 --> 01:37:10,480
the study of English in school.
To me, the more specific you are

1707
01:37:11,320 --> 01:37:14,800
contextually, the more universal
the poem becomes.

1708
01:37:15,400 --> 01:37:18,440
I think it's like it's the
cultural specificity is the

1709
01:37:18,440 --> 01:37:23,600
thing that can make it timeless
or more insightful.

1710
01:37:23,600 --> 01:37:29,160
So, yeah, I think a poem, it can
be timeless and but I think that

1711
01:37:29,360 --> 01:37:34,200
analyzing it in its context and
bring so much more to it.

1712
01:37:34,360 --> 01:37:36,840
Same as like what a dad said,
it's that it's that writing

1713
01:37:36,840 --> 01:37:39,040
principle.
The more specific you are, the

1714
01:37:39,040 --> 01:37:42,320
more universal residence your
work has.

1715
01:37:42,520 --> 01:37:46,080
Yeah, I think you should never.
Aim to sit down and write

1716
01:37:46,080 --> 01:37:48,080
something and say, OK, I'm going
to write something that's

1717
01:37:48,080 --> 01:37:49,320
timeless.
I'm going to write something

1718
01:37:49,320 --> 01:37:50,960
that's going to echo throughout
context.

1719
01:37:52,400 --> 01:37:56,800
Yeah, I think that the what
makes the study, I can accept

1720
01:37:56,800 --> 01:38:02,280
the study of poetry timeless is
when a work is contextually

1721
01:38:02,680 --> 01:38:05,800
specific because that's what
makes it powerful.

1722
01:38:06,440 --> 01:38:08,160
Yeah.
Yeah.

1723
01:38:08,880 --> 01:38:12,480
Big question.
Cool, Wonderful, wonderful

1724
01:38:12,480 --> 01:38:13,440
answers there.
You.

1725
01:38:13,520 --> 01:38:16,880
Now have the responsibility of
leaving a question for my next

1726
01:38:16,880 --> 01:38:20,440
guest not knowing who they are.
Oh, OK.

1727
01:38:20,440 --> 01:38:25,480
So my question is.
What is the main technique that

1728
01:38:25,480 --> 01:38:28,600
you like to play with?
Because for me, like we

1729
01:38:28,600 --> 01:38:31,360
mentioned earlier, it's like
hermit crab forms.

1730
01:38:31,880 --> 01:38:33,760
So what is the main technique
that you like to play with?

1731
01:38:33,840 --> 01:38:37,040
And I'm hoping this answer is
generated for listeners as well.

1732
01:38:37,640 --> 01:38:39,320
Yeah, yeah.
Like it, Like it.

1733
01:38:39,520 --> 01:38:41,080
But if you're listening.
Let us know.

1734
01:38:41,280 --> 01:38:45,360
Let us know what's your your
trick or technique is Bella

1735
01:38:45,640 --> 01:38:47,400
Annette.
If people want to find out more

1736
01:38:47,400 --> 01:38:50,080
about you, follow the work that
you're doing.

1737
01:38:50,080 --> 01:38:52,360
Where's the best place that they
should head?

1738
01:38:52,960 --> 01:38:54,080
Instagram.
Instagram.

1739
01:38:55,000 --> 01:38:58,560
Instagram.
Yeah, my Instagram is.

1740
01:38:58,720 --> 01:39:03,920
At.
Bella luu So BELLALUU under

1741
01:39:03,920 --> 01:39:07,760
score art.
Yeah, and my Instagram is at

1742
01:39:08,320 --> 01:39:12,860
Annette.
Annette under score Lu under

1743
01:39:12,860 --> 01:39:15,440
score art.
I've actually got Bella's

1744
01:39:15,640 --> 01:39:19,080
Instagram in my buyer as well,
in case you mistaken us or if

1745
01:39:19,080 --> 01:39:20,960
you, you know, if you didn't
catch hers.

1746
01:39:22,120 --> 01:39:24,240
So generous.
So generous just to make sure

1747
01:39:24,240 --> 01:39:26,760
you you catch them.
And we'll have links to all

1748
01:39:26,760 --> 01:39:29,240
those pages in the episode
description.

1749
01:39:30,440 --> 01:39:33,000
Now, Bella, you're going to
bring us home with your last

1750
01:39:33,000 --> 01:39:35,240
piece before we we wrap
everything up.

1751
01:39:36,600 --> 01:39:38,160
Actually, I might perform like
a.

1752
01:39:38,160 --> 01:39:42,560
Really old.
One This is the first poem I

1753
01:39:42,560 --> 01:39:46,080
ever performed at Banks 10
Poetry Slim and it's called

1754
01:39:46,080 --> 01:39:51,200
Nosebleed.
I want to tell you about one of

1755
01:39:51,200 --> 01:39:54,520
my friends.
He had a lot of Nosebleed as a

1756
01:39:54,520 --> 01:39:56,160
kid.
And there were a few.

1757
01:39:56,160 --> 01:39:59,960
Reasons the first being that he
got bored and bore a torn.

1758
01:39:59,960 --> 01:40:02,840
Nail a little too deep and
before it could breach the

1759
01:40:02,840 --> 01:40:06,960
hippocampus, the blood blinded
his finger and congealed over

1760
01:40:06,960 --> 01:40:10,680
his lips before he could say,
hey brain, what's with all the

1761
01:40:10,680 --> 01:40:12,960
noise?
Because his brain was screaming

1762
01:40:12,960 --> 01:40:16,000
that the Nosebleed was an
allergic reaction to cherries.

1763
01:40:16,280 --> 01:40:18,120
Since there were too many
coincidences.

1764
01:40:18,520 --> 01:40:20,840
Like the night his.
Dad staggered into the bedroom

1765
01:40:20,840 --> 01:40:23,960
and dropped a glass of cherry
coloured wine on his face.

1766
01:40:24,120 --> 01:40:27,120
When he shattered awake, he was
confused about the difference

1767
01:40:27,120 --> 01:40:31,240
between blood and beverage, and
all he could see was Rothko Red

1768
01:40:31,240 --> 01:40:34,360
swallowed in black, like the
time he knocked his first tooth

1769
01:40:34,360 --> 01:40:35,800
loose by chomping.
On a cherry.

1770
01:40:35,800 --> 01:40:39,840
Seed, he crushed it like a champ
to excavate a hole in his gum

1771
01:40:39,840 --> 01:40:43,600
wide enough for the words I hate
you to shove their way through

1772
01:40:43,880 --> 01:40:46,640
because his nose bled true,
thicker than wood around that

1773
01:40:46,640 --> 01:40:50,160
mean blue fairy who said he he
looked like shit after a casual

1774
01:40:50,160 --> 01:40:54,400
jog at 2:00 AM, but the jog was
really a swim where a blood

1775
01:40:54,400 --> 01:40:58,600
vessel burst because he tried to
dive too far down in open water.

1776
01:40:58,920 --> 01:41:01,080
Because the air at home was even
saltier.

1777
01:41:01,280 --> 01:41:04,160
Because he never mentioned that
yesterday a kid called him a

1778
01:41:04,160 --> 01:41:07,520
girl for crying in detention and
so he punched the kid like an

1779
01:41:07,520 --> 01:41:11,160
insurgent because his body
couldn't sink this surge in

1780
01:41:11,160 --> 01:41:14,000
anger.
It's hereditary, like the time

1781
01:41:14,000 --> 01:41:16,200
his dad threw a flower vase and
it detonated.

1782
01:41:16,200 --> 01:41:18,440
On.
His face and it tasted metallic,

1783
01:41:18,840 --> 01:41:21,360
like the sound of his voice when
it dropped two Optus by the.

1784
01:41:21,360 --> 01:41:23,880
Time.
He moved out, then moved back in

1785
01:41:24,040 --> 01:41:27,880
to liquidate his assets to pay
off dad's debts, only to end up

1786
01:41:27,880 --> 01:41:31,000
in a one way hallway at 2:00 in
the morning alone.

1787
01:41:31,760 --> 01:41:35,640
His nose bled because his.
Face didn't know how to.

1788
01:41:35,640 --> 01:41:38,240
Cry.
In the face of death of a

1789
01:41:38,240 --> 01:41:42,000
terribly good riddance.
And how do you get rid of a

1790
01:41:42,000 --> 01:41:45,760
Nosebleed?
Well, you can sit straight,

1791
01:41:46,880 --> 01:41:49,800
pinch your nose firmly.
Gasp for air.

1792
01:41:49,800 --> 01:41:52,040
Through the mouth bleed.
Profusely.

1793
01:41:52,040 --> 01:41:54,880
For 5 minutes, then you clean it
up.

1794
01:41:56,240 --> 01:41:59,120
These things heal.
Quick, no traces.

1795
01:41:59,880 --> 01:42:03,800
No smudges.
Only a blood clot swallowed.

1796
01:42:06,920 --> 01:42:09,680
Wow.
What a debut piece that that

1797
01:42:09,680 --> 01:42:11,160
would have been.
It's got her second place.

1798
01:42:11,800 --> 01:42:14,400
Yeah, there you go.
Thunderous applause and 2nd

1799
01:42:14,400 --> 01:42:16,280
place.
Well, well deserved.

1800
01:42:17,520 --> 01:42:21,920
Well, Annabella and Antoinette
Lou, this has been an absolute

1801
01:42:21,920 --> 01:42:25,520
pleasure finding out more about
the two of you and what's kind

1802
01:42:25,520 --> 01:42:27,240
of happening up there on the
East Coast.

1803
01:42:27,600 --> 01:42:31,000
Thank you so much for thinking
with us and for slamming with

1804
01:42:31,000 --> 01:42:33,960
us.
Thank you so much, Andrew.

1805
01:42:35,080 --> 01:42:36,120
Thank you, Andrew.