Andrew Horner - Poetry Is a Friend in the Dark

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Slam poetry doesn't care if it's
perfect.

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It's time to slam.
It's the biggest poem I've got

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inside of her.
She was a thief.

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You love me to love a haunted
house.

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Angry.
Blood black nothingness began to

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spin.
This day.

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I hate pork.
Chops.

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I am the master, I am the
captain from across the pond.

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It's I think therefore I slam
the podcast bringing you the

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best spoken word in slam poetry
artist from Australia and

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beyond.
Today we have Auk guest.

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My guest today is an actor, poet
and voice over artist and a host

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on the popular movie podcast
Rage Whale.

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He's played many characters both
on stage and screen, as well as

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voicing characters for video
games such as Divinity Original

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Sin 2 and Augmented Empire.
He uses his voice to perform

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spoken word pieces and he's now
published 2 poetry collections,

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the first My Life in Pieces and
more recently Drunk on Lies,

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Sober on Truth.
His spoken word album is called

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Strong Enough to Break under the
name Creative Tales with his

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creative partner and music
producer, composer Tomas

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Almeida.
With his poetry, he aims to

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break stigmas on important
topics like mental health,

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suicide awareness and phone
addiction.

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He's righting the wrongs that
society may choose to ignore.

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Please welcome Andrew Horner.
Thank you, man.

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Thank you.
I feel guilty about that, that

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whole kind of monologue you have
to read out at the beginning.

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But yeah, it's lovely to be here
and thank you so much for having

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me on as a guest.
I've seen you've got lots of

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great guests on here and I'm
honoured to be amongst them.

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One in particular, RK Gandhi,
yes, big, big fan.

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Not only is he a great soul of a
person and a lovely friend, but

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he's an incredible talent and a
huge inspiration to me.

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And he actually features in my
latest book.

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He was kind enough to go, I was
stalking him and be like, dude,

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can we put that collab in the
book?

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And he was like, yeah, go.
And then I was like, yes, so

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yeah, he's an absolute legend,
so truly, truly honoured.

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I fully agree.
Yeah.

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RK Ravi was on last season and
and we had a great chat.

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He's built himself a fantastic
little creative community that

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follows his work.
So he's the one who pointed me

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your way.
And yeah, really, really keen to

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have you on today.
So Andrew, we're really keen to

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hear your first piece.
You're welcome to open the floor

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with a little intro or you're
welcome to jump right in.

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Whatever takes your fancy.
Sure, sure.

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So this is from the book Junk
and Lie Sober on Truth, which is

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my latest one.
I'll just jump in with a piece

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called 100 Years, 100 Years, 100
Ways, 100 Problems and Nothing's

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Changed. 100 Excuses, but we're
the ones to blame. 100

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opportunities that sadly died in
vain.

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Charlie Chaplin wrote such a
profound speech trying to

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explain, he stopped miming and
finally gave his character a

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voice and this problem a name.
But in those times it was just

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entertainment and leisure.
Souls that didn't look between

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the lines because they didn't
know any better.

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The elite and wealthy drunk on
pleasure, while the poor and

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working class are drinking up
the debts and pain.

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Somebody please try to explain.
The class divides keep on

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clashing over and over, again
and again.

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The rules black and white, the
screens black and white.

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Now in a world filled with
colour.

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But we still can't get it right.
Food is a right, not a

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privilege.
Why do we just hear but never

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take the initiative?
Listen with eyes but lacking the

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knowledge and courage.
World problems are just sick

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entertainment to decorate
newspapers or release on TV.

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It's sadly the most important
things that are never taken

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seriously.
Guns are still available to get

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so many even after wars and mass
shootings.

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But that's just the way it is
sadly.

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Our complex world with an
abstract reality.

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It's OK for lives to be taken as
long as others are making money.

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We excuse human behaviour and
mental health as random acts of

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violence, but who are we
kidding?

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Well clearly ourselves.
Greed is the need that so many

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companies seem to feed yet other
souls have nothing to eat.

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Brokers fuck with broken shoes
barely covering feet.

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Watching the lifestyle of the
wealthy and elite weighing up

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our lives as we question whether
we can afford lighting or heat.

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So many struggling to make ends
meet or we get front row seats

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to watch those wealthy quality
streets enjoy themselves and

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cashing in on treats.
These are just words that will

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slip by the minds and ears as
our world problems fester for

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another 100 years.
But wait, Mother Earth has had

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enough of our shit as she
decides to wipe the slate,

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allowing only bacteria and small
living organisms to populate.

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We were just a test, a human
experiment.

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How many times can we fail her
before she says it's too late?

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Woo biting social commentary.
I like it, Drew.

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I like it.
A piece like that feels very

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timely right now.
We're recording in, in late

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March and I'm, I'm hearing stuff
about war, I'm hearing stuff

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about greed, I'm hearing stuff
about inequality.

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You know, these are these are
these real timeless themes I

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think that we we see all over
literature and all over poetry

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as well.
It's true, man.

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Yeah, we're in some crazy times
right now.

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I feel like as artists, it's our
job to kind of paint a picture

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of the times because if you look
throughout history, that's what

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all of the greats have done, you
know?

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And, and it just, I feel like
with the way the world is right

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now, with freedom of speech in a
really frightening way, that

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poetry is the only way to stay
sane because it's like you're

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able to voice an opinion, but
done in a kind of under a kind

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of artistic vacuum, if that if
that makes sense.

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But yeah, it's, it's, it's crazy
times, man.

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We just got to pull together and
but I think art can heal us.

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Like as cheesy as that sounds, I
think art reminds us of the

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qualities of being human or what
it feels like to to feel

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something or to go through
something difficult and and get

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to the other side so we can
hopefully inspire each other

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through words.
For sure.

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Like I think storytelling is
really important as in, I guess

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building a narrative or building
a counter narrative to the

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narrative.
You know, if the narrative is

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war and greed and inequality and
these big looming negative

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things, what is the Count's
narrative?

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Well, it's, it's the street
level, it's the relational

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level, it's the hope and peace
and love level.

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You know, all those good things.
100% just to caveat that though,

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I just want to make people aware
that the book isn't as bleak as

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that, because even AI said in
one of its things it said that

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no matter how bleak the picture
of the kind of humanity is

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painted all the way the world is
right now, there is still lots

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of aspects of hope sprinkled
throughout the book.

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Good.
Stuff.

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So you got, you got range is
what you're saying?

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Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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It's not like someone's going to
pick it up and go, Oh my God,

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this is, this is not the one.
No, there's, there's, there's

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humour in there.
You know, it's a whole mixed

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bag.
It's like a a bag of licorice,

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all sorts, but from a poetry
standpoint, so.

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Yeah, life's a box of licorice.
All sorts, as Forrest Gump said.

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And, and hopefully you're not
allergic to licorice.

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Otherwise, yeah, just don't,
don't open the bag, Don't open

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the bag.
Andrew, we are, you know, we are

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a hemisphere away from each
other, you and I.

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But I want to know what your
origin story is, so to speak, of

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starting to share your work in
in the public forum like we're

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doing today.
How did you get started?

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That's a really good question
man.

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If I'm honest, I think it was it
was it was locked down when it

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already happened because I did a
lot of poetry when I was at

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drama school.
Like if I had very difficult

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days, I'd just go off into like
the kind of costume department

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area, which is very quiet.
And I'd just write out my

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feelings, which was helpful.
But I was kind of a closet poet

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in a weird way because I felt
felt like poetry had a bit of a

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kind of bad press to it.
It felt very kind of roses are

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red, violets are blue, just kind
of a little bit cheesy.

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And people didn't quite.
Yeah.

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So it wasn't till I got a bit
older that I realised that the

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poetry is a really profound way
of expressing one's feelings and

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and through storytelling as
well.

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And it gave me flashbacks to
when I was doing GCS ES and we

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studied an amazing poet called
Simon Armitage for English.

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And he showed me the ability to
tell stories through poetry and,

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and how amazing that is.
Because to write screenplays or

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novels, that takes an insane
amount of skill and, and

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creativity.
Whereas with poetry you can kind

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of cheat it because you don't
need a beginning, a middle and

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an end necessarily.
So, yeah, it allowed me to tell

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stories that way.
And during lockdown, when we

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were given time back because we
weren't going to our regular

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jobs and we didn't have all
those other parts of our lives

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that we had to go to or the
distractions that would take us

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away.
I remember just lying on one of

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those kind of therapeutic kind
of spike rugs and all these

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thoughts came to my mind.
I love those things.

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Do you do?
Yeah, yeah, dude, they're

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amazing, man.
Yeah, they.

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Sleep on them.
They really help you sleep,

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especially if you're struggling
with sleep and stuff like that.

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I think it's based on like a
kind of historical thing they

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did way, way back when.
Yeah.

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And yeah, all these thoughts
just came to my head and it was

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like, and it said go back to
poetry.

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It was like, it was like the
ghosts of the past were like, go

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back to poetry.
Come find.

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Come find us, man.
We're we're waiting for you.

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And there was a whole party of
words just like, hey, welcome

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back.
Yeah.

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I started writing poetry.
And then my friend Michael

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Felton, he started doing artwork
for it because we we grew up

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with like, Roald Dahl and
Quinton Blake.

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And I loved the idea of poetry
and arts collectively together.

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He started doing amazing artwork
for these pieces and we started

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uploading it onto Instagram,
which backfired.

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Actually, this is quite a funny
story.

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I wanted to call it inspire
radical.

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And then we got flagged up for
being a terrorist organization.

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And I was like, OK, maybe
because I guess the word radical

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and inspire.
So he came up with the concept

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of tales.
Tales from the Nook.

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Yeah, I think it was Tales from
the Nook.

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No, it was Tales From and then
we changed the Tales of the

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Nook.
But yeah.

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And he started like putting
through different pieces of, of

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art that were, were just
incredible.

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And they kind of it, it summed
up the piece really.

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I thought to myself, well, we've
got all, all of this work now.

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So it'd be great to get a, a
book made just to show we, we

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got something up a mountain.
This kind of creative baby we

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made together.
And we both got COVID at the

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time, which was horrendous.
So we were kind of like trying

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to get through that together and
all of the horrible things it

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came with.
And we just thought how lucky we

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were because people were sadly
dying in certain places all over

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the world.
And we were like, my gosh, this

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is crazy.
We're we're lucky, we're still

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here.
And then we're like, maybe we

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can have something to show for
our time.

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And he did the amazing artwork
that's in my first book, My life

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in pieces.
As soon as the world kind of

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went back to some kind of
normality, I looked into getting

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the book made and I, I couldn't
believe I was able to release

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the first book.
And during lockdown, I, I always

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said when the world went crazy,
art kept me sane.

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And to go on to these lives and
hear all of these amazing poets

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like performing and reciting
poetry.

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I think that's what got me
through lockdown really like

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beyond the Netflix and your
Amazons and all this stuff,

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logging in to this beautiful
kind of hub that was just

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thriving with art and, and
poetry and just just listening

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to people.
And then my friend Michael, he

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started getting bogged down with
loads of other projects so he

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couldn't create as much art.
And then he's like, dude, if you

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still need to create content,
why don't you record your

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pieces?
And I was like, OK, and then so

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I thought with a background in
acting and, and voice over, I

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thought, why, why don't I do
that?

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And, and it was nice because
people could see a face behind

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tales of the Nook.
And they started to get a sense

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of my voice and my rhythmic
cadence or, or, or whatever it

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is.
And I started performing the

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pieces and it, it, it felt so
nice to be able to do it the way

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that I'd like it to be heard,
essentially.

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And yeah, man, that's that's how
I got into it.

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Unreal.
I mean, you know, the experience

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of lockdown is as different as
it was around the world.

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I think one thing it did do was
it launched 1000 Creative

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endeavours, you know, whether
that was sourdough making,

247
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whether that was, you know,
crochet or whether that was

248
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poetry.
I mean, you know, I, I started

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my first time in podcasting
mucking around during one of our

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lockdowns here.
So it's really great to have

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seen some of those projects,
some of those passions not only

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get unlocked, but sustain
through to nowadays.

253
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They haven't just, you know,
died on the vine after

254
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everything goes back to to
normal.

255
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It's great to hear that you've
kind of carried it forward and

256
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finding new ways to express
yourself.

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Oh, 100% man, 100%.
And I, and I think if I'm

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honest, like that thing about
poetry being therapy, which

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makes so much sense and the fact
that it rhymes is also ironic.

260
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But because therapy is quite
expensive for a lot of people

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these days and not everybody has
the ability to go and find

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someone to do it.
And I know they've got a lot of

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great online courses where you
can speak to therapists or

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counsellors, which is incredible
that more people are doing that

265
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and it doesn't have that stigma
attached, which I think is great

266
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because sometimes you just need
to talk about things going on in

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your life that you might not
want to share with friends or

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00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,400
offload on family members or
things like that.

269
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There might be too much to deal
with.

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Poetry was such a great outlet
for me in particular because I

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was going through a lot of stuff
with family and my brother and

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things like that.
And it really helped me with

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some difficult, difficult times
and created some good content as

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well, hopefully.
I was always saying that it

275
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allowed those demons to become
fuel, a creative fuel, as

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opposed to it just, you know,
building up inside and becoming

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something more kind of toxic.
Yeah, amazing.

278
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I I know how you mentioned, you
know, your first thoughts of

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00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,560
poetry, you felt like you had to
keep it a secret or something.

280
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And you know, roses, red violets
are blue.

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It just reminds me.
I've, I've shared this on, on

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the I think therefore I slam
Instagram.

283
00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:26,000
Last year I, I had the privilege
of going to a school and a high

284
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school running my first poetry
workshop or presentation.

285
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And I got to be honest, Drew, I
bombed.

286
00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,680
And I remember one of the things
we were doing just as a warm up

287
00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,320
is doing like a little roses are
red, violets are blue, you know,

288
00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,800
complete this thing.
And none of the students wanted

289
00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:42,400
to share.
They won't give me anything, you

290
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:44,040
know?
And then one, one of them piped

291
00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:45,200
up and I was like, yeah, here we
go.

292
00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,200
Here's here's the momentum or
whatever.

293
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,240
And everyone's silent and he, he
speaks up.

294
00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,480
He goes, roses are red, violets
are blue.

295
00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,560
My dog ate my homework.
And then he, he bit my Dick or

296
00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,160
something like that, like, and
then everyone laughs and, and

297
00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,200
whatever.
I was like, oh OK, cool, we'll

298
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:05,800
get there.
Nice, a hard crowd.

299
00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:07,760
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, tell me about it.

300
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,120
Year nines never give you
anything.

301
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,960
They never give you anything.
So Andrew, people are probably

302
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,840
listening to your dulcet tones
at the moment and going wow, you

303
00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,000
know, Andrew's got a lovely
voice there.

304
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,000
Both Andrews have have lovely
voices we can buy.

305
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,040
Exactly right, yeah.
You've worked as a professional

306
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:27,960
voice over artist for for years,
as we said in your bio, so you

307
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,600
know, you, it's almost like you
already are trained in in the

308
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,640
instrument of poetry or or
spoken word, if you like.

309
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,040
How does performing,
particularly with your voice

310
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,360
that you started to do and and
share your stuff, How does that

311
00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:44,000
shape the way you write or edit
or choose to perform a poem?

312
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,000
Like what?
What different dimension does it

313
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:47,880
give to it rather than just
something on the page?

314
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,200
Great questions.
Great questions, Andrew.

315
00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:54,320
I'll tell you a funny thing
though about it is people have

316
00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:58,320
started to say that when they
read my book, they imagine my

317
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,400
voice saying it.
That's always nice.

318
00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,880
That blows my mind.
Like that absolutely blows my

319
00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:06,160
mind.
It's become a like a, an air

320
00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,680
signature of my work in the way
that I potentially perform

321
00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:11,360
something.
I love hip hop.

322
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,600
I love kind of like MCS and like
garage and stuff like that.

323
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,880
And I used to be an MC way, way,
way back when, like in a, in a,

324
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,640
in a club.
My friend Azam myself slips.

325
00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,680
We used to perform at clubs and
and I used to love that kind of

326
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,680
like doing it fast, like da da
da da Bah, like all this kind of

327
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:31,480
stuff.
And I, I wanted to try and bring

328
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:35,760
a kind of hip hop infusion into
my work because at one point my

329
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:37,040
brother said something really
funny to me.

330
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,360
He says, you speak so fast and
like, I can't appreciate a lot

331
00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:44,400
of the the work and, and clever
kind of word play you put into

332
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:46,960
it because so fast.
He says normal people just take

333
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,560
their time and speak it.
I was like, yeah, but I love

334
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,160
that kind of that flow, as it
were.

335
00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,360
And I think that's kind of just
been brought, brought in there

336
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,520
like the word play.
Like I'm a massive fan of like

337
00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,800
Eminem and I listened to so much
of his stuff.

338
00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:03,040
Like he's like a modern day
Shakespeare in my humble

339
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,040
opinion.
And his word play is next level.

340
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:12,119
And that was a huge inspiration
to listen to artists, MC hip hop

341
00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,520
and all that.
And, and to be fair, what was

342
00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:15,680
it?
There's something that means

343
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,560
poetry and rhymes essentially.
No rap, sorry.

344
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:20,119
Is, is.
Yeah.

345
00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:21,359
Is rhythm and poetry.
Sorry.

346
00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:22,480
That's what I meant.
So.

347
00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:26,319
So rap breaks down for that, as
is rhythm and poetry.

348
00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:28,960
And once I kind of started to
get a sense of that, I wanted to

349
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:33,360
incorporate that into my work
and just kind of test myself.

350
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:36,520
Like where can I put in those
metaphors, those similes, those

351
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,080
analogies, the alliteration, My
God, when you read pieces and

352
00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:44,000
people use like, there's like 20
different words beginning with P

353
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,640
in something.
And then we get to perform that

354
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:51,680
and all the, I love it.
And I get just as much fun out

355
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,000
of recording something and
imagining how it could sound.

356
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,360
And, and I'll be honest,
sometimes people might think I

357
00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:00,840
do it in one take, but my God,
do I, I go over and over again

358
00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,400
to, to get it write when I'm
recording something to get it

359
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,400
through.
But also when I'd write a piece,

360
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,760
I'd return to it.
It would just keep building.

361
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,760
I was never necessarily one of
these people that could write a

362
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:13,960
piece straight off the bat.
Like I'd always return to it and

363
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,360
work on it and, and carve bits
and tweak bits.

364
00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:21,440
And yeah, like, it's almost like
someone has a, you know, you're,

365
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,040
you're kind of chipping away at
something to carve it into

366
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,880
something, you know, making a
table out of a trunk of a tree

367
00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,280
or something, you know?
I think there is so much

368
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:35,000
interesting overlap between
between music and and writing

369
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,960
and poetry.
And I guess I think my way in

370
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:42,200
through the musicality side of
it was not so much rap.

371
00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,560
Rap was not something that I
didn't appreciate but but just

372
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:47,880
didn't really relate to.
It's not, you know, it's not

373
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:51,600
from my culture, you know, look
yet look at what I look like,

374
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:55,760
you know, that kind of thing.
But for me, it was more through,

375
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,560
I guess, being a theatre kid,
musical theatre along with the

376
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:04,120
emergence of post hardcore and
emo music, you know, as I was

377
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,240
emerging into, into my own
person.

378
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,480
I think those two kind of came
together for me and that's

379
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,040
really developed my love of of
language and metaphor.

380
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:16,720
Because like for me, listen to
most songs in like the charts,

381
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,480
that's poetry that's been picked
up on a level where people will

382
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,280
love music, right?
And that, and if you look into

383
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,520
lyrics, it's pretty much the
most beautiful poetry you'll

384
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,600
ever read.
But then when you talk about

385
00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:31,240
poetry and you put it into the
sense of a book or on stage or

386
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:32,480
people like, I'm not sure about
that.

387
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:34,520
It's like, but you're listening
to it when you're walking to

388
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,520
work, but then you walk past a
shop that has all this poetry in

389
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:38,520
it, but you're like, no, I'm
good.

390
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:40,240
But you're like, but you're
listening to it.

391
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:44,160
It's all around you because it's
like Louis Capaldi, an amazing

392
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:48,080
poet, like Harry Styles, like if
you listen, if you listen and

393
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,560
read their lyrics, it's like the
weekend.

394
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,720
It's it's all poetry, but it's
like on the highest stage

395
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,800
because it's it's going through
different Spotify's or whatever

396
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,480
it is and it and it's music and
it's popular and it's all this

397
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:02,600
stuff.
That's what I'd say.

398
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,520
Music is popular poetry and
ironically, poetry, which is the

399
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:08,200
purest form of poetry, just gets
bad press.

400
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:09,960
People are like, no, no, no, I'm
all right with those books.

401
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:11,360
No, I'm good, I'm good.
You're like what?

402
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:13,360
I think it's just.
And your.

403
00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:16,440
Flavour, you know, and, and you
know, in my work they were

404
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,200
playing some Sabrina Carpenter
today.

405
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,120
Now love, I hate her music.
She loves word play, she loves

406
00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:24,240
innuendo.
She's she's operating in that

407
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,400
space all the time, you know,
and, and that's that's her

408
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,640
flavour compared to, you know,
everything else that you've

409
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:31,040
you've raised there.
That's right.

410
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,000
It was just just something.
What you said about music

411
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,720
though, like musical theatre and
things like that, when I was

412
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:40,880
doing the album with Tomasz
Almeida for Strong Enough To

413
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:45,000
Break the fact that he came on
board and created this kind of

414
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,320
cinematic score.
I always call him the Portuguese

415
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,640
hand Zimmer because he's
ridiculously talented.

416
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:54,680
But for some reason, when we
came together, the the words,

417
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,920
the spoken words and his music
works so well in tandem that

418
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,280
it's just, I'm so proud of that
project.

419
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:06,240
And it never would have existed
if it wasn't for Tomasz taking a

420
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,960
punt on me and go, yeah, OK,
I've, I've got a few months that

421
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:11,160
I'll work on this project with
you.

422
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,480
And he gave up so much of his
time and talent to create it.

423
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:18,120
And I, I'm really, I'm actually
really proud of that album.

424
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:22,920
It's 8 interconnecting tracks.
So we said, can we make like a

425
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,280
like a movie, but just for your
ears?

426
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,400
And it's got this kind of
immersive feel to it.

427
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,440
So it takes you on such a
journey.

428
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,400
And.
Yeah, he's he's incredibly

429
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,400
talented.
I'm so glad he came on came on

430
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,400
board a movie for your.
Ears I I love that sounds like

431
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:41,640
you know Tom Ash found his his
muse well you found your muse

432
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,520
sounds like a a beautiful
partnership it really was well

433
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:46,120
because.
The funny thing was, I think he

434
00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:48,200
thought as a freaky stalker at
first because I listened to his

435
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,200
music on art List and I was
like, this guy's ridiculously

436
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,240
talented.
And then I heard this one track

437
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:57,560
and then I went on to his
website and he says I'm a man of

438
00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:59,960
few words.
And then I thought, what if I

439
00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:02,240
was your words?
Which sounds so arrogant.

440
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,280
And I was like thinking, he's
going to think I'm some weirdo.

441
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,960
And then even more than that, I
was a weirdo because I added my

442
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,640
poetry to one of his tracks and
then sent it to him.

443
00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:12,920
And I thought, this is going to
absolutely bomb.

444
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,440
He's going to think, who is this
narcissistic unsolicited.

445
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,800
Demo the ultimate.
Yeah, I was like, look, this.

446
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,000
Is us.
It's almost like a manifesting.

447
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,440
This Is Us working together, but
I forced it right and I sent it

448
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:24,680
to him.
I didn't hear anything back for

449
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,760
like a week a couple of weeks.
I thought, Oh no, I've

450
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,600
absolutely.
And I like getting the anxiety

451
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,040
sweats.
And then I think a couple of

452
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,840
weeks later he messages me and
goes, dude, I just want to say

453
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,200
like, that piece is next level
now.

454
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,200
You've just absolutely elevated
it because I, I didn't feel

455
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,800
confident enough to sing or, but
not that he needs it because his

456
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,920
work is so good just as
instrumentals anyway, because he

457
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,480
brings all the emotion with all
the different instruments and

458
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,280
the kind of caddick rhythms and,
and everything he does.

459
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,200
But he just said, listen.
And then I said, would you like

460
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,160
to collaborate?
Because I've got a few pieces

461
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,720
I'd love to get out there.
And he's like, dude, that sounds

462
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:01,760
amazing.
And I was like, I, I still, it's

463
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,960
still a slap me kind of wake up
moment that that that exists,

464
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,560
that that album is out there.
And I got to work with him

465
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,880
because he is so talented.
It's, it's, it's insane.

466
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,160
It's absolutely insane.
And what I love about that,

467
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:14,520
Drew.
Is it shows that you've got to

468
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,280
ask, like that's something that
I've learnt through what I'm

469
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:18,960
doing here.
Like you've got to ask and

470
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:23,480
you've got to be a bit cringe
because some people will will

471
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,480
say yes, like you just you just
don't know.

472
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:26,920
It's a cliche for a reason, I
guess.

473
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:29,000
Yeah.
But also like saying

474
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,920
collaborating, like even this
for me, this is beautiful.

475
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:33,720
Like you reaching out and I'm
like, yeah, I'd love to.

476
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:35,640
It was weird because I was
trying to put out to the ether.

477
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,080
I'd love to be on more podcasts
and talk about poetry and talk

478
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,840
about my work or what I'm trying
to do with my work or and you

479
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,320
know, communicate and collab
with other other artists, like

480
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,960
minded people yourself, you
know, and here we are.

481
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,240
Here we are inside that inside
that bubble.

482
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,920
Just quickly.
You know, having worked with

483
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:58,160
Larian Studios on Divinity
original SIM two, what happened?

484
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,200
Could they not afford you for
the follow up Boulders Gate 3?

485
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,160
Could they not fit you on the on
the sheet?

486
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:04,960
Oh dude, don't.
Man, it hurts.

487
00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:08,840
I don't know, man.
I, I, I'd love to, I mean, the

488
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,400
reason I was lucky enough to get
augmented Empire was because I

489
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,080
could do different voices.
So I, I, I played a few

490
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,600
different characters in that.
So I guess they get more bang

491
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,800
for their buck rather than
having to pay three different

492
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:21,320
actors.
They could just get me in and

493
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:22,720
I'll play these different
characters.

494
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,440
But yeah, I'm mate, Divinity
Original Sin 2 was a proper kind

495
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,000
of like, again, a kind of slap
myself in the face, wake up

496
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:31,520
moment.
Like you're like pinch me

497
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:32,720
moment.
Sorry, that's slap me in the

498
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,360
face, pinch me moment.
You can slap me in the face if

499
00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:37,360
you want.
But yeah, that game was insane.

500
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:41,000
And you actually get to do like
death scenes.

501
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,200
You do different things.
So like if your character gets

502
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,760
stabbed or poisoned, yeah, you
have to do different versions of

503
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,360
that, which is a lot of fun.
But the script was amazing.

504
00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:52,320
Like I, I actually think that as
amazing as, as, as film is and

505
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,080
cinema is getting better and
like 2025 was incredible.

506
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,360
And this year, like we've got
some insane films coming out,

507
00:24:57,360 --> 00:24:58,880
which I'm really, really excited
about.

508
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,560
But I do think that the medium
of computer games, like the

509
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,240
whole kind of Resident Evil
requiem #9 like the storytelling

510
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,840
and the immersive quality that
you go through as a player is

511
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,040
just next level.
And, and the acting from those

512
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,720
voice, the people that voice all
those different characters is

513
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,480
just, I mean, they, they could
get Oscars.

514
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,160
Like, do you know what I mean?
Nominations, like the

515
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,040
performances they give, they
give so much to the mic in those

516
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,000
studios that people get to
experience when they're playing

517
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,040
the game.
It just adds such another level

518
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:34,080
to it because people are really,
they're giving it everything and

519
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:35,920
and you and you can see that in
the studio when you're there

520
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,200
doing your scenes or you're
reading opposite someone or

521
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,440
whatever it is.
And yeah, there's a lot of love

522
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:46,520
and passion for computer games,
and it's lovely to see it that

523
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:47,800
people aren't just phoning it
in.

524
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,920
It's like they're really, it is
like they're doing a monologue

525
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,080
or they're acting.
Performance capture has.

526
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,400
Come so far.
I thoroughly enjoyed playing

527
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,640
through Clare Obscure Expedition
33 over the offseason.

528
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,400
It was actually really helpful
helping me work through some

529
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,240
some grief and some feelings
that I had and, and I, I, I

530
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,920
reckon I reckon that's in your
future made in terms of maybe a

531
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,320
sequel there because you know,
Charlie Cox and Jennifer English

532
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,440
and Ben Starr and these these
real like rising stars of voice

533
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,040
acting like it's, it's all
happening.

534
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:21,000
And this was from a small French
offshoot studio and they just

535
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,720
embarrassed the whole, the whole
industry incredible.

536
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,040
Well, it's it's like.
Have you seen now with the

537
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,480
motion capture, they're actually
putting like well known faces

538
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,360
because there's I think there's
a computer game with Kit

539
00:26:30,360 --> 00:26:33,000
Harington's face on it.
I'm not sure what that one is.

540
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,640
There's the one from the guy
that plays Daryl from The

541
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,040
Walking Dead.
Well, I can't remember his name.

542
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,800
Amazing actor.
But yeah.

543
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,360
And they're starting to put the
faces of the the actors on

544
00:26:46,360 --> 00:26:47,440
there.
So not only do they have the

545
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,280
tennis balls and they're doing
all the moves and stuff, but

546
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,440
they're actually now getting
well, Like they, they, what was

547
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,120
it?
Cyberpunk with Keanu Reeves and

548
00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:57,400
stuff, man.
So it's like they're, they're

549
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,960
kind of, but the line is getting
blurred between movie and game

550
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:03,440
and, and, and I'm, I'm here for
it, man.

551
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,760
I think it's, it's so exciting.
And like you said, I think it

552
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:08,120
helps people for a lot of
things.

553
00:27:08,120 --> 00:27:11,840
Like my my friend at work, he
was saying sometimes coming home

554
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,840
and just turning on my computer.
It just it's a wonderful escape.

555
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:16,880
It allows me to see another
world.

556
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,440
I can experience things.
I'm still socializing in a weird

557
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,640
way because when your character,
you are your character

558
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,240
communicating with other people,
you still have a little element

559
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,840
of social.
Or if it's multiplayer and

560
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,880
you've got your headphones in,
you can talk to other people.

561
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:32,800
And that got me through lockdown
as well.

562
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,400
Like one of my best mates, Adam,
we were, we were playing

563
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,880
Fortnite and literally we're
just talking about what's going

564
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,360
on in the news and like playing
the game and we're communicating

565
00:27:42,360 --> 00:27:44,600
through a computer game.
And that's when when people

566
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,560
saying, oh, computer games are
really bad for people because

567
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,920
they're just like isolating
people and blah, blah.

568
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:51,960
I was like, no, it was actually
bridging the gap.

569
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,800
It was helping people when you
couldn't leave your home, you

570
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,400
could talk to other people in
your lives and see how they're

571
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,000
doing and, and almost have a bit
of a heart to heart.

572
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:02,960
Like it was always therapy
through computer games.

573
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,160
So it was, it was beautiful,
man.

574
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,440
It's really going.
Up in production value.

575
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,320
Norman Reedus getting involved.
You know, Fillmore tours like

576
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,880
Williamo del Toro and Nicholas
Wendy Grefna are doing things

577
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:16,080
like this.
We've got we've got Lenny

578
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,280
Kravitz as the villain in the
new Bond game soon.

579
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,640
We've we've got Jordan Peele
starting to executive produce

580
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,120
some projects with.
It's not Miyazaki.

581
00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:28,320
Why am I think it's Hideo
Kojima.

582
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,160
Hideo Kojima, right right.
Yeah.

583
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,200
So these real altars starting to
to go in that in that direction.

584
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,760
I think therefore our slam is
brought to you by the Slam Fam

585
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,680
on Patreon.
Yes, these are the generous,

586
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,440
beautiful, creative souls who
help keep the lights on here at

587
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,640
podcast HQ.
And for less than the price of a

588
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,280
coffee a month, they get access
to all types of exclusive

589
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,080
goodies, including bonus
episodes, previews of upcoming

590
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,840
content, new poems and musings
from me, and much more.

591
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:03,600
To become a member, you can head
on over to patreon.com/I TTIS or

592
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,320
click the link in the
description.

593
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:12,360
Now back to the conversation.
I love a good nerd out, Andrew,

594
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,840
but let's quickly return to
poetry for a little bit.

595
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:16,360
Sure, man, you.
Certainly have a.

596
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,280
Passion.
And you write very candidly

597
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,760
about themes, mental health,
suicide awareness, these kind of

598
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,320
things.
When you're writing about these

599
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:29,440
things, how do you protect your
own well-being while you're

600
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,240
putting that material together?
And do you feel any kind of, I

601
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,720
guess, responsibility or, or how
do you navigate helping readers,

602
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,000
you know, inviting them into a
story and trying to help them

603
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,960
without triggering things?
I suppose that's a really good.

604
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:45,800
Question.
Yeah, a very important one.

605
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,720
I think this thing about trigger
is, is a really tricky one

606
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:54,720
because sometimes maybe you need
to hear the piece to heal from

607
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,200
the peace.
And I think sometimes we're so

608
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:02,000
quick to be triggered or put off
by the word trigger that we

609
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,760
might miss out on actual
important things.

610
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:09,360
But again, it depends, I guess,
on the topic and, and how recent

611
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:13,360
it is or how deep that trauma is
that someone's particularly

612
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,200
going through it.
Did she say that?

613
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,280
Because with the latest book, my
editor, an incredible artist,

614
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:24,880
Arzu, she said that you should
write at the beginning that it

615
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:26,440
has.
It has like a warning.

616
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:27,160
OK.
Yeah.

617
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:28,520
Like.
A like a little disclaimer.

618
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:30,080
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.

619
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,440
And, and it was only because
when she was reading it through,

620
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,880
she was like, listen, some of
these pieces are really they're

621
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,240
really hard hitting.
And and they're, you know, she

622
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,080
got me to write that.
It says, I really.

623
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,760
It just says some poems in this
collection use strong language.

624
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,840
Yeah.
And touch on themes of suicide.

625
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,880
These subjects are approached
honestly and may be difficult

626
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,360
for some readers.
And I think unfortunately,

627
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:55,560
suicide effects a lot of people
because when we lose someone

628
00:30:55,600 --> 00:31:00,960
through that particular
circumstance, yeah, it it has a

629
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,640
knock on effect of all the
people that left behind confused

630
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:09,000
by how that happened or why that
happened or we think why, why

631
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:10,960
couldn't they open up and tell
us?

632
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,040
And I've lost a lot of people to
suicide, sadly.

633
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:20,440
And that is partly the catalyst
for why I do what I do, to try

634
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,520
and figure out what, what was
going through their minds and

635
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,880
why did they feel that that was
the only solution to the

636
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,840
difficulties they were facing.
That's why I talk about the,

637
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,960
the, the darkness in the sense
that darkness feels too heavy to

638
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,440
hold.
There's this overwhelming burden

639
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,880
and people like, I'd rather not
offload this on anyone.

640
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,080
I I'm going to just take it with
me and maybe I'm not going to

641
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:49,040
see tomorrow, you know, and,
and, but to be the polar of

642
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:53,120
that, my thoughts were if one
person could read a piece in my

643
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,080
book and they were in a really
dark place and they're like, do

644
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:58,720
you know what?
This is relatable?

645
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:00,920
Like they've, they've gone
through some dark things

646
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:02,720
themselves, but they've seen it
to the other side.

647
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,560
They make a different choice and
go, do you know what I'm going

648
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,080
to, I'm going to get through
this.

649
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,240
Somebody said something really
interesting when they read some

650
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,600
of my work.
They said that you're meeting

651
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,880
people in their darkness and
that's the only way to pull them

652
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,120
out.
It's like that, that film Soul,

653
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,000
that Pixar film where they go
into that dark space and he has

654
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,840
to find her in, he has to meet
her in that dark space and pull

655
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,960
her out.
Because as amazing as light

656
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:35,400
poetry and loving poetry and
beautiful transient poetry is,

657
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,160
people might not be ready.
They can't get to that level yet

658
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:42,280
because they're they're in their
little dark kind of place and I

659
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:46,360
try to meet them there and go
listen, I know what it's like to

660
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:47,800
be here.
Let's go.

661
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,280
Let's get out together.
You know, I always try to say

662
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:55,440
that my book, if my book could
be a friend in the dark to help

663
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,120
guide people through a certain
labyrinth.

664
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,000
Not that I'm saying I have all
the answers or that my work is

665
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:05,760
going to heal or, or, or change
any lives, but if it can touch

666
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,080
people in a certain way.
I remember there was a time when

667
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,760
someone reached out to me and
said, I'm going to buy your book

668
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,200
because I've got a couple of
really difficult weeks coming up

669
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:19,320
and I was just blown away by how
they thought something that I've

670
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,640
created might help them through
something difficult.

671
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,720
I was like, Oh my God, like
words couldn't express.

672
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,280
I was like, I hope you get
through it.

673
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:30,920
And if if any of the things
you're reading help with that,

674
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,080
then that's that's the greatest
gift for a writer.

675
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:34,200
Really.
Thank you.

676
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,200
So.
Much for for sharing that Drew.

677
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,720
I had a few thoughts.
Firstly, trigger warnings are

678
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:44,440
interesting because my
rudimentary understanding and my

679
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,760
take, if you like, is I think
the jury is a little bit out as

680
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,840
in I'm not sure if they're
effective.

681
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,840
If that's the way, like it's
fair enough that your editor,

682
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,640
you know, asked you to make a
change to, to, to kind of make

683
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,360
things more palatable or more
appropriate.

684
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,880
I mean, there is there is
certainly something to be said.

685
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,160
We have a ratings board for for
films and stuff.

686
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,679
Like there is something to be
said for allowing people to to

687
00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:11,840
give consent to be exposed to
certain things.

688
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,000
But yeah, it's an interesting.
It's an interesting argument

689
00:34:15,159 --> 00:34:17,880
either way.
I think I'm also fascinated by

690
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,639
the potential of art as a
circuit breaker because I think

691
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,679
a mental circuit breaker that
is, you know, something that can

692
00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:29,480
change someone's train of
thinking or, or believing or

693
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,199
experiencing on a on a dime, if
you like.

694
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:36,280
I mean, I can think of going to
comedy shows.

695
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,000
I, I went and saw a comedy show
with a friend during one of the

696
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,760
worst two weeks of my life and
it didn't change everything

697
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,600
immediately, but my goodness, it
was helpful.

698
00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:49,239
My goodness, it was helpful.
And I'm so glad I went.

699
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:51,960
Do you know what I mean?
So it's wonderful that other

700
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,639
people are seeing that in your
work and telling you.

701
00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:58,560
Like, I'm so glad people are
telling the artists who are

702
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,520
making the work that is
meaningful to them that it is

703
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,080
meaningful because so often it
just goes unsaid.

704
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:05,200
Yeah.
I.

705
00:35:05,240 --> 00:35:07,960
Think that's also one of the
difficulties with social media

706
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:12,560
because of this whole comments
box or likes box that we get so

707
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:17,080
used to grading or being graded
and sometimes the people that

708
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,720
are touched the most might not
even interact with that.

709
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,680
I I think you don't realise the
seeds you sow into certain

710
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:25,480
people now that's the beauty of
it.

711
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,680
But like you said, if someones
kind enough to reach out and

712
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,640
say, listen, I just want to let
you know this made me feel this

713
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:35,640
or like literally today, a poet
DM D me, which is lovely.

714
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,560
She said, I'm I'm almost
finished my book and I want to

715
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,640
let you know that I bought a
couple of yours and your work

716
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:43,960
has inspired me to complete my
book.

717
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,720
And I was just like, whoa.
So again, going going full

718
00:35:47,720 --> 00:35:51,160
circle to lock down me sat on a
spike rug.

719
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,160
I was like, you should thank the
spike rug because that's what

720
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,120
opened my brain.
So the idea that we can inspire

721
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,880
each other is, is, is beautiful.
And I remember I, I I'm

722
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,160
constantly inspired when I dip
in into social media every now

723
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,920
and then and somebody writes
something that's incredibly

724
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,080
brave or courageous.
And I'm like, I'd like to try

725
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,560
and tackle that topic as well.
And like, we're kind of

726
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,680
inspiring each other
collaboratively as a kind of

727
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:14,560
tribe in a weird way.
You know, you say your vibe

728
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:15,560
attracts your tribe.
Yeah.

729
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:17,560
Yeah.
I think that's, I think that's

730
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:18,760
beautiful.
So much love for the.

731
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,000
Shakti Mat here today.
The spike mat.

732
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,360
Yeah, man.
This episode is sponsored by The

733
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,720
Shakti Mat and Better Help and.
And all the good things.

734
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,280
Yeah, yeah, all the good things.
All the good things.

735
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:30,800
If we look at this from the
opposite side, though, do you

736
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,600
think sometimes we, we, we hear
about, you know, toxic

737
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,000
positivity or the fact that
people are already, you know,

738
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,000
there seems to be a social
expectation that there is, there

739
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,760
is a certain amount of time that
you can spend in a certain

740
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:45,200
state.
And then the expectation is that

741
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,920
you move on, that you're over
something, that you're, you're

742
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:49,720
back on task, etcetera,
etcetera.

743
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,240
And that's not always the case.
What would you say to someone

744
00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:58,320
who feels that they're trauma,
their experience is too messy or

745
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,680
too much or too ugly to ever be
turned into art?

746
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:02,960
What would you say to someone
like that?

747
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:04,280
I mean, that's a great.
Question.

748
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,640
It's weird that the the first
image I have is a strange one

749
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,400
actually, because a friend of
mine a while back, he was seeing

750
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,720
a counsellor and they told him
he was indulgent in his like

751
00:37:15,720 --> 00:37:19,840
concerns or or or worries, which
I thought was a strange thing to

752
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,240
say anyway.
But what he said was he said, I

753
00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:26,840
want you to go outside to where
all the bins are like horrendous

754
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:30,480
stinking bins.
And he says stay there with all

755
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,280
your all your thoughts and all
your problems and all your

756
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,760
concerns and the ones that are
really playing on your mind and

757
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:41,920
stay there with those as long as
you can until you need to leave.

758
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:47,520
And it's the idea of, I think it
was because the bin smell is too

759
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,120
much to deal with.
You can't indulge in those

760
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,040
problems for too long that it
gives you the ability to get

761
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,800
back into your life.
But from, from a, from a

762
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,360
creative point, here's what I'd
say.

763
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:05,640
You don't have to share your
creative pursuits through one's

764
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,040
trauma.
You can write things that can

765
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,280
help you.
And it could just be in a book

766
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,480
and it can just go somewhere.
I think in the world we're in

767
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,960
now, because of social media, we
feel a need to prove that we're

768
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,440
doing something to help better
ourselves and then we'll post it

769
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,880
rather than just doing internal
work on ourselves and go, do you

770
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,680
know what?
I'm going to write this for me.

771
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,480
And also it's that kind of like
10,000 hours thing.

772
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:34,760
Like I think loads of stuff I've
written I'm I'm really not happy

773
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,640
with.
But if you imagine that your

774
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,760
mind is like a a pipe, like a
tunnel, you've got to get rid of

775
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,080
all of the other crap bits that
it, like all that other stuff

776
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,840
has to come out before the nice
flowing water can come out,

777
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,200
before the things that you are
happy with can kind of come to

778
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,400
fruition.
And I think the more you do

779
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,560
something, the more confident
you you become.

780
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,400
I don't write poetry on with pen
and paper.

781
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,200
So I feel like an absolute kind
of, which sounds kind of

782
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,560
sacrilege.
I write in my notes, so I'll

783
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,000
just be somewhere and I'll just
start jotting stuff down in my

784
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:11,080
notes and, or it might be a word
or a thought and I'll return to

785
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,440
it and I'll, I'll use it almost
like a jigsaw.

786
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,720
I'll pull pieces out and build
something that will then start

787
00:39:17,720 --> 00:39:19,480
to kind of make sense later down
the line.

788
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:21,920
And that's the other thing it
can take, it can take time.

789
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,960
You don't want to rush things.
It's like go at your speed.

790
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,200
Do you know what I mean?
And if it's something

791
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:32,560
particularly painful that you
feel you can't work on, maybe

792
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,600
you've got a friend or a family
member or someone that they're

793
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,920
going through something that's
not completely connected to you.

794
00:39:39,240 --> 00:39:41,840
You could write on their
thoughts and their problem.

795
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,160
Because that's the other thing I
found, that other things going

796
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,560
on in the world, we poets can
write about.

797
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:51,520
It might not necessarily be our
concerns or our difficulties or

798
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,480
our traumas or our problems,
because the world is going

799
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:58,360
through so much and we're all
part of that world, even though

800
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:00,200
media and everything tries to
create.

801
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,600
Divides and everything we are a
collective and we're one species

802
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:10,400
so we can relate to human
suffering and hopefully change

803
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:14,680
that and and see if we can, you
know, help each other through

804
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:16,000
it.
We have so.

805
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:17,320
Much empathy.
Do you know what I mean?

806
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:22,720
Like stick, stick Google eyes on
a rock and you'll be challenged

807
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:24,600
to not have feelings for that
rock.

808
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,600
That's all I'm saying.
This is our greatest

809
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,960
collaborative power us up, you
know, because we have empathy.

810
00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:35,880
We are vulnerable to
advertising, you know, this kind

811
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,120
of thing.
We're we're we're vulnerable to,

812
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:40,960
to bad actors and manipulation
and, and things like this.

813
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,160
So it's, it's constantly running
both ways and it's, it's

814
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,080
something that we need to to
train.

815
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:50,880
And I suppose like you were
saying, like a, a writer doesn't

816
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:55,280
have to share everything about
themselves, but they can dictate

817
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,160
their own boundaries and their
own reasons for not sharing

818
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,200
something.
The reason might not necessarily

819
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,280
be, oh, I think this is too
messy or ugly.

820
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,760
It might just be like, oh, I
don't write about my children or

821
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:08,080
something.
That's just a boundary.

822
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,320
It's not, there's nothing else
attached to it.

823
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,000
You know what I mean?
So that kind of takes, takes the

824
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,880
charge out of it.
And I think that's really

825
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:15,960
important.
I think boundaries are.

826
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,640
Are are so like for health and
for one's own health and and

827
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:21,640
mental health and well-being.
I think boundaries are so

828
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:25,240
important to set and and comfort
levels in a sense, even though

829
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,560
we talk about break out your
comfort levels to grow and stuff

830
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:32,160
like that, but at the same time
you need to set boundaries in

831
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,320
place that help you feel
comfortable.

832
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:36,600
I saw this play out in the music
world.

833
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,480
A few years ago when Paramore
stopped playing their song

834
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,360
Misery Business, they said we're
actually going to stop playing

835
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,720
this song because the lead
singer, Hayley Williams, she

836
00:41:45,720 --> 00:41:49,640
felt it was misogynist and it
wasn't reflective of her current

837
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:53,080
kind of views and outlooks.
And it was put aside for a time.

838
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:54,840
It's a fan favorite, but it was
put aside.

839
00:41:55,240 --> 00:41:57,480
It is back now.
They obviously went through a

840
00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,640
season where they weren't
comfortable.

841
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,360
And then they came out the other
side going, oh, we're we're

842
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,840
gonna reclaim it as a, as I
guess, a relic from something

843
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,760
that was written when, when they
were much younger but accepted

844
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:10,760
it.
So, you know, we see these kind

845
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,280
of different, different
boundaries, you know, coming up

846
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,960
in, in all kinds of contexts.
But that's like my my mate was

847
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:17,840
saying briefly about.
The movies, like we're saying,

848
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:21,840
if you look at movies from
different decades ago, it is

849
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,120
very different.
And you can start to see how the

850
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,640
world is changing through the
movies.

851
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:30,440
Do you know what I mean?
And I think that's quite

852
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:31,600
fascinating.
But like my friend was saying,

853
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:35,440
you shouldn't go back and redo
things just to make it the way

854
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,080
it is now, because that's a
piece of history and that was

855
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:42,320
the way that things were.
So yeah, generally speaking, I'm

856
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,800
not a fan of.
Retconning content.

857
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:48,600
I'm a fan of education.
I'm a fan of of the disclaimer

858
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:53,280
of saying Disney Corporation
saying, oh, here's the original

859
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,400
Dumbo.
There are some African American

860
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,600
caricature characters in this
film.

861
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,880
Just be aware of that.
Be aware that the these are

862
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:07,160
these are some some very old,
very offensive stereotypes.

863
00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:10,360
It was done.
We're not going to take it out.

864
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,440
We're going to let people know
it's there and we're going to

865
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,200
learn from it.
You know, I think that that's

866
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,920
probably the way we go, and
that's exactly what I mean.

867
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,280
We need, we can, we can learn
from the mistakes of the past

868
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:22,880
rather than trying to clean them
up and go, that never happened.

869
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:24,080
It's like, well, no, no, no, no,
no.

870
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:25,800
Because then we're lying to
ourselves because it's like it

871
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,160
did happen.
And how can we make sure it

872
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:30,720
doesn't happen in the future and
use that empathy again?

873
00:43:30,720 --> 00:43:33,920
Because.
The, the cringe or the, the

874
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,120
thing in your stomach that you
get when you see that or you

875
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,240
read the history book or
whatever that means something

876
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:44,080
that, that that means that we,
we don't want to go there again.

877
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,720
And I think that's that's 100%
that creates that kind of.

878
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,800
Poignancy to it.
You know for sure I'm I'm loving

879
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:52,160
this.
Drew, this is fantastic.

880
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:54,840
I'd love to hear your your
second piece as well.

881
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,560
So this one is called.
Madness.

882
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:03,840
This madness leads to madness.
Starved of our tears to the

883
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:07,720
point of stress, but no space
for sadness so our minds and

884
00:44:07,720 --> 00:44:11,320
bodies become a sad mess.
Trap thoughts fester in the

885
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:15,080
prison of our own loneliness.
Less of ourselves as we cut and

886
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,320
paste a brave face, A pillar
without cracks as we do our

887
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,560
best.
But our hearts and minds are

888
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,840
under attack as our lungs
desperately search for space.

889
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,400
Can't live up to the mold that
was sold to man.

890
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,400
Lacking tears as we fear we
confuse society's plan.

891
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:35,000
Not all men stood when it came
to the right thing to do.

892
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:39,040
Some ran history books and wars
were fought by real men.

893
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:41,080
You can't have an off day when
you're male.

894
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:45,320
You got to stay 10 out of 10.
Mines crack like glass every now

895
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,880
and then, but not for men.
We've got red marks from the

896
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:53,400
masks we wear in society, crowds
as our tears are exiled and not

897
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:56,240
allowed.
Crowns are placed upon kings and

898
00:44:56,240 --> 00:44:59,280
there's a weight that that
brings men that silence their

899
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,120
pain.
Here for too long now, have

900
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:05,320
sadly grown wings, vulnerability
cast out like a disease.

901
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:09,240
Yet the pain remains in most
men, hidden in dark rooms, heavy

902
00:45:09,240 --> 00:45:11,040
thoughts that bring them to
their knees.

903
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:16,400
Ask yourself why men don't talk
openly, they bury their feelings

904
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,320
like serial killers hide bodies
in amongst the trees.

905
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:23,160
Yes, we need brave men in this
world, but there must also be

906
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:25,520
acceptance for their
vulnerabilities.

907
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,080
Beautiful, Drew.
I think I'd like to take this

908
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:35,680
chance to just highlight and
direct people, if they're

909
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,320
interested towards their nearest
kind of men shed or men's

910
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,000
circle.
I'm part of a men's circle run

911
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,840
by a friend of mine who got some
training and, and runs one every

912
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,240
month.
And it's, it's so simple.

913
00:45:48,240 --> 00:45:51,480
We, we often don't have an
agenda when we sit down, but my

914
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,280
goodness, it's just helpful.
It's even helpful the fact that,

915
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:57,480
you know, we know each other
from the circle, but you know,

916
00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:59,040
we keep that space it's own
thing.

917
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:00,920
And then we kind of go out to
our lives from there.

918
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,400
Like we're not, we're not
enmeshed in it, is what I'm

919
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:05,680
trying to say.
It's it's that neutral third

920
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:07,120
space.
Yeah.

921
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:09,520
Have you you ever had any
experiences in those kind of

922
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,800
spaces?
I haven't, but I know they

923
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,200
exist.
I've met a few people from them,

924
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,960
one of the guys that runs part
of the the shed company, which I

925
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,040
think is incredible.
Men working on different

926
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,280
projects and kind of arm in arm
because people don't, men don't

927
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:25,720
always necessarily want to be in
front of each other because then

928
00:46:25,720 --> 00:46:28,640
it feels a bit strange.
He, he did.

929
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:32,840
He, he purchased one of my, my
first books because I, I had AI

930
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:34,920
heard a hoodie on that says boys
cry too.

931
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:39,840
And it's the sorry boys get sad
too, which is that incredible

932
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:44,000
kind of organization that for
every hoodie or T-shirt or

933
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,040
merchandise that's sold, it goes
towards men's kind of mental

934
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:48,360
health charities and things like
that.

935
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,720
And he's trying to kind of break
the stigma on men's mental

936
00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:54,360
health.
And he saw the hoodie that I

937
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:56,040
had.
And that's again, the thing that

938
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,520
I think is amazing about that
particular brand, because when

939
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,800
somebody sees that kind of
hoodie on someone, they go, hey,

940
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:06,000
man, I'm there for it.
And it's like this, it's not the

941
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,920
secret code, but like when
people see that hoodie, it goes,

942
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,360
this is a guy that gets it.
This is a person that gets it.

943
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:13,800
Or it doesn't even have to be a
guy.

944
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:15,120
A woman could be wearing it like
boys.

945
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,400
The boys get sad too and even
love.

946
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,920
The fact is, boys, the idea of
we're vulnerable sometimes, even

947
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,520
though we're, we're, we're men
in society and we're of a

948
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:26,600
certain age, but there's still
that kind of boys mindset

949
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:30,040
because we haven't fully found
ourselves or sometimes a

950
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:33,480
situation can make us feel lost
or we can feel vulnerable

951
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,320
through an emotional situation
that we don't know how to

952
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,760
unpack.
And I think having groups like

953
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:44,400
that is a way to just, you know,
be amongst other men and

954
00:47:44,720 --> 00:47:49,120
potentially be vulnerable in in
each other's company or just

955
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:54,080
having a space where you can
kind of be yourself and, and not

956
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:58,240
have to kind of put up filters
and and walls and barriers.

957
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:00,720
Yeah, for sure.
And and like you said, even.

958
00:48:00,720 --> 00:48:03,720
Clothing can be another form of
expression and art.

959
00:48:03,720 --> 00:48:07,000
People see these decals or these
sayings or, you know, to write

960
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,560
love on their arms.
You know, that's another great

961
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:12,360
organization.
And it can open a door.

962
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,120
You know, it can open the door,
it can open a conversation.

963
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,840
It can be that circuit breaker.
Again, we're surrounded by all

964
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:22,600
kinds of expressions and
emotional circuit Breakers.

965
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:24,240
We just got to seek them out, I
suppose.

966
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:27,760
Drew, I want to know, 'cause
you're now a veteran, if you

967
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:32,320
like, of two poetry collections.
What?

968
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,560
Changed for you?
Between writing the first and

969
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:37,920
the second collections in terms
of, I don't know your approach

970
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:42,520
or your style or even how you
curate what gets in and and what

971
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:46,200
gets left on the cutting room
floor, so to speak, I think the

972
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:50,520
first one.
Was I kind of wanted to have

973
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:57,400
something to share through that
really difficult time in life

974
00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:59,720
that we'd all gone through in
the kind of zeitgeist of

975
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,000
pandemic and and everything like
that.

976
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,480
And I think that was a real
personal one.

977
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,640
I think a lot of the stuff I put
put in there and then I think

978
00:49:08,720 --> 00:49:12,360
this new one is just to prove
that the first one wasn't a

979
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:15,040
flick.
But yeah, the the the the.

980
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:17,240
New one is more.
Political for sure.

981
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:19,240
It's the most political I've
been.

982
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,280
Well, you, you proved just
trying to open a pace.

983
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:24,440
Yeah.
From there, Yeah, No, thank you,

984
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:25,440
man.
Yeah, and.

985
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,160
Well, I mean, even the title
itself that, you know, has, has

986
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:31,800
rung a lot, you know, to a lot
of people, they, they, they've

987
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,160
really kind of appreciate the
title drunk on lies, sober on

988
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:36,560
truth.
And I think that shows where

989
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:39,760
we're at at the moment,
unfortunately, that we're so

990
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,840
quick to just digest lies and
we'll just deal with that

991
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,760
because that's easier because
the truth can be really hard to,

992
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:50,560
to unpack.
And I put again, I, I always go

993
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:53,720
into men's mental health and,
and suicide awareness.

994
00:49:53,720 --> 00:49:56,560
These, these are my, my go TOS
because these are things I want

995
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,560
to break down and I want to
break the stigmas on those.

996
00:49:59,720 --> 00:50:02,360
But I also, like you said, I
want to start conversations

997
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:06,840
about that, the idea of, of men
being poets and expressing their

998
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,400
feelings.
And I think everyone should be

999
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:12,480
able to do that.
I always say, if, if men didn't

1000
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:14,880
have tear ducts, like why do we
have tear ducts?

1001
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,680
If we're, if we're not supposed
to feel or cry, you know, it's

1002
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:21,400
it's strange change that we pent
up all this kind of emotion and

1003
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:23,520
things or just don't know where
to put it.

1004
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:25,000
We don't know where to put it in
things.

1005
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:29,040
And I think sometimes because
the emotion can either get so

1006
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:32,840
lost, maybe it can turn into
something else, something dark,

1007
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:36,040
something negative.
And that's where I think we can

1008
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:40,920
change circumstances on
behaviour of certain men in

1009
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:45,480
society if they know where to
put their emotions and those

1010
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:47,600
feelings that are so kind of
entangled.

1011
00:50:48,240 --> 00:50:51,840
Funny enough, when I was writing
different bits, like newer

1012
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:55,160
things from my notes, they'd go
into the book because I was

1013
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:58,520
like, oh, this actually feels
quite, quite relevant now.

1014
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:01,720
I'll, I'll put this in.
I mean, this book would not

1015
00:51:01,720 --> 00:51:06,120
exist if it wasn't for the
incredible Arzu.

1016
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:10,960
She is absolutely incredible
Arzu Dennis.

1017
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:13,480
And people can find her on on
Instagram.

1018
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:19,440
She runs this amazing procentrix
is this magazine that she runs

1019
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:21,800
and she she brings in all these
different artists,

1020
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:26,360
photographers, animations,
writers, like she brings a whole

1021
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:30,240
host of artists all together
through this incredibly edited

1022
00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:32,160
magazine.
I'll need to send you some

1023
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:34,360
links, man.
But but she's a she's such a

1024
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:36,760
talented artist.
I reached out to her and said,

1025
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:40,600
would you do the artwork for me?
And then we we worked on the

1026
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:43,480
front cover together and this
idea of of the scales are off

1027
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,880
balance because literally it
feels like that the way the

1028
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:48,720
world is.
And then I started talking about

1029
00:51:49,240 --> 00:51:52,720
if the class, if people are
lower, this is the only way

1030
00:51:52,720 --> 00:51:55,560
weights work.
So you've got the class divide.

1031
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,520
So then these people can stay up
here in the rarefied atmosphere,

1032
00:51:58,720 --> 00:52:02,080
living it up, whereas all these
people have to stay here because

1033
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:04,040
otherwise it can't.
They don't want it to do that,

1034
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,160
you know.
And she kindly said, well, do

1035
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:08,840
you know what?
I'll edit it as well.

1036
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:12,440
So she started a whole process
now where she does the artwork,

1037
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:14,960
the editing, pulling it all
together.

1038
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:17,640
So people out there that are
listening to this and they want

1039
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:20,840
to get a book made, I definitely
say reach out to her because

1040
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:23,160
she's she's wonderful.
She was very patient.

1041
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:26,520
I was probably a very difficult
customer, but yeah, she was, she

1042
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:29,120
was absolutely fantastic.
And that is the reason I have a

1043
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:32,840
physical book because I tried to
do an Indiegogo for this.

1044
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:36,720
And it doesn't help that, you
know, there's, there's wars and

1045
00:52:36,720 --> 00:52:38,680
all kinds of horrendous things
going on in the world.

1046
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,200
And who am I to ask for money
off people when there's much

1047
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:45,680
more important things that need
people's money and people's

1048
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:47,240
generosity and people's
kindness.

1049
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:49,560
And there's me saying, can you
help me make a book, please?

1050
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:51,160
It's like, it's not, it's not a
good time.

1051
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,080
So it didn't work out, but it,
but it allowed me to go.

1052
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:56,440
Do you know what?
I really want this book to be

1053
00:52:56,440 --> 00:53:00,800
out there.
And I don't want it to be like

1054
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,200
a, a failed thing.
I'm like, I'm going to just kind

1055
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:06,760
of get this up a hill.
And yeah, ours who helped me

1056
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:08,400
kind of get it up to the top of
the mountain.

1057
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:11,000
And I couldn't be happy with how
it came out.

1058
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:13,760
Like I always wanted a book with
a spine and it actually

1059
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:18,080
legitimately has a spine to and
I always just wanted to make it

1060
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:21,640
not feel like some kind of piece
of like like a kind of student

1061
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:25,360
thrown together homework.
It's like I want it to feel like

1062
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:27,880
it could be on the shelf of any
decent bookshop.

1063
00:53:28,240 --> 00:53:29,800
If you hit someone with it,
it'll make an.

1064
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:31,520
Impact.
That's that's what exactly?

1065
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:32,560
Yeah, yeah, quite literally,
yeah.

1066
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:34,760
Yeah, it's not going.
To just dissipate or fall into

1067
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:37,240
pieces.
It's got some weight to it.

1068
00:53:37,240 --> 00:53:38,160
It's got.
Some weight to it.

1069
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:40,160
I'm really happy.
It's the book I always wanted to

1070
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:41,280
make as well.
To be honest.

1071
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:44,560
A lot of the pieces in there I'm
I'm incredibly happy with.

1072
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:48,200
And it's different to my first
one in the sense that I wanted

1073
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:50,960
to try and use more prose
because I did a lot of rhyming

1074
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:52,440
stuff.
And, and as much as I love

1075
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:57,080
rhyme, again, RK Gandhi does a
lot of kind of prose and rhymes.

1076
00:53:57,360 --> 00:53:59,720
And then I just wanted to kind
of try different avenues and

1077
00:53:59,720 --> 00:54:01,600
different strokes with my pen,
as it were.

1078
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:05,560
And also RK Gandhi features in
in this book.

1079
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:08,280
And I'm very grateful for our
collaboration on a piece called

1080
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,320
Tuck and Roll.
It's it's, it's got a

1081
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:15,520
collaborative element to it.
Hey, quick pep talk if you're

1082
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:17,440
enjoying.
The episode, I'd love it if you

1083
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:21,160
could leave a rating review,
comment or like wherever you're

1084
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:24,040
listening right now.
You know how this works.

1085
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:26,800
Every little bit of digital
interaction helps people to find

1086
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:29,120
the show and keeps the poetry
flowing.

1087
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:32,160
And if you want to do something
extra special, please share the

1088
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:34,200
episode with someone who you
think will vibe with it.

1089
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:36,160
That also helps with all of the
above.

1090
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,000
Thanks so much for listening.
And now back to our guest.

1091
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:44,480
I'd love to have another little
geek out.

1092
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:48,000
With you, before we finish up,
Drew, I want to know about your

1093
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:50,560
experiences in the podcasting
world.

1094
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:54,400
So rage whale is a thing.
It's happening, it's kicking.

1095
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:57,960
And what is so interesting about
it to me is it is it is a multi

1096
00:54:58,000 --> 00:54:59,920
host podcast.
It's not, it's not just your

1097
00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:01,760
baby.
Got a couple of guys on there

1098
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:04,040
now.
I have done a collaborative

1099
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:08,240
podcast before, before I did
this one and it was great, great

1100
00:55:08,240 --> 00:55:10,280
experience.
But it is very different because

1101
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:12,920
you got all these different kind
of creative energies in the one

1102
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:16,840
room.
So how do you and your team keep

1103
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:21,280
it fresh and keep it functional
like without killing each other

1104
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:24,480
with, with what you're trying to
do, I mean.

1105
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:27,600
I'm so grateful to be part of
Rage Whale, to work with Kevin

1106
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:31,520
James and to, to be honest, I,
I, you know what I'd actually

1107
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,160
say it's, it's the guests we
have that keep it fresh.

1108
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:37,360
We're very lucky that we have
guests from all over the world

1109
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:40,320
and when they're sharing their
stories and we kind of all just

1110
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:44,440
like dip in with ideas.
But it's such a safe space.

1111
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:48,280
Like it's, it's, it's lovely.
Like a lot of guests have said

1112
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:51,520
that they feel very comfortable.
It's very conversational, even

1113
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:53,440
though it's, it's like an
interview, but it's like having

1114
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:55,440
an interview at a pub or
something, if that makes sense.

1115
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:57,760
Like a digital pub where you
just kick, sit back and go, Oh

1116
00:55:57,880 --> 00:55:58,520
yeah.
What about this?

1117
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:00,480
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then everyone pitches in

1118
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:03,240
with their ideas.
But to be honest, like you were

1119
00:56:03,240 --> 00:56:07,360
saying about having a shed, I'd
say that rage whale is my man

1120
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:10,760
shed in a way, because I get to
hang out with some very good

1121
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:13,600
friends of mine that I haven't
seen for many, many years.

1122
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:17,360
And that's kind of my way of
socialising because I don't have

1123
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:21,400
an awful lot of friends here in
Hove, Like a lot of my friends

1124
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:25,320
are in like Hampshire and London
and places like that.

1125
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,440
And I obviously try and reach
out and meet them throughout the

1126
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:30,920
year.
But rage whale is something

1127
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:33,640
that's, you know, it's, it's
almost every Monday, every other

1128
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,280
Monday or Tuesday we're, we're
recording.

1129
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:40,440
And I love it.
I, I, I love talking, as you can

1130
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:45,120
tell, I love talking about
things that I love more.

1131
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:48,400
So like with the, you know,
movie, I'm a massive movie geek

1132
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:53,800
and like delving into it with
guests and talking about how

1133
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:57,040
they see certain things.
Or we talk about a scene or the

1134
00:56:57,040 --> 00:57:01,360
way it's shot or the dialogue or
the character or the music.

1135
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,200
Like there's so many different
aspects to, to, to film that I

1136
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:07,040
absolutely love.
And it was funny because a while

1137
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:09,080
back I was saying to a couple of
friends in Hampshire, I was

1138
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:10,920
like, we should start a podcast
about movies.

1139
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:13,880
And unfortunately just became,
it was just a talking topic.

1140
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:17,680
And ironically, we never press
record it never became anything.

1141
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:20,720
And then my, my mate Kev, he
started buying all this

1142
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:21,960
equipment.
He's like, dude, I'm thinking of

1143
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:24,560
doing a podcast about movies.
I was like, no ways, man.

1144
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:27,160
This is like, I manifested it.
I was like, wait, are you, are

1145
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:29,240
you contacting me to say you
want me to be part of it or

1146
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:30,600
like, what's going on?
And he's like, oh, you're a

1147
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:32,080
voice over wrist.
You've got a mic and stuff.

1148
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:33,280
I was like, yeah, man, we could
do it.

1149
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:35,640
And then, yeah, one thing led to
another.

1150
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:39,080
And then originally before we
turn it into something, it was

1151
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:41,280
just, we were just having like
Zoom calls and catching up for

1152
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:44,720
hours and just having the like
so much fun and a laugh.

1153
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:47,200
And we're like, imagine we
shared this as like a weird like

1154
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:50,160
digital house party that people
are, people can be invited to

1155
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:52,280
and they can just listen to it
anytime they want just to dip

1156
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:53,680
in.
And then we're like, why don't

1157
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:56,440
we open it up to like guests?
And then they can come into this

1158
00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:59,600
weird digital house.
And that's kind of how it

1159
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:01,760
started to happen.
And then we started to share it.

1160
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:03,560
And then people are like, oh,
you know, there's a real vibe.

1161
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:06,400
This is so different to other
kind of podcast things because

1162
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:08,800
obviously the the world is
saturated with podcasts.

1163
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:10,160
So you like, how do you make it
unique?

1164
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:14,200
And I think people just like the
fact that it's kind of

1165
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:17,000
unfiltered.
There's obviously swear words,

1166
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:20,400
ridiculous things we discuss,
but then it's also got a lot of

1167
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:22,120
humour.
There's a lot of heart as well

1168
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:25,200
because we, we've dealt with
certain topics to do with like

1169
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:26,440
mental health and things like
that.

1170
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:30,720
And every episode has got its
own kind of energy and its own

1171
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:34,960
kind of feel and the kind of
guests kind of guide it in a

1172
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:37,880
way.
And we just let we give them a

1173
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:41,240
platform and we just kind of
interact with them.

1174
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:44,800
But it's, it's really fun.
Now we've got like merchandise,

1175
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:46,600
we're going to be meeting up in
London.

1176
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:48,640
Like we've got our own little
hoodies and stuff.

1177
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:52,080
It's mad.
Like my, my brother helped me

1178
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:55,040
create the music for it.
So we've got our own little kind

1179
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:58,480
of theme tune and it's, it's
just mad how, how it's evolved

1180
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:03,240
from three guys just, you know,
zooming each other to a kind of

1181
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:06,680
fully fledged kind of podcast
that people want to be part of.

1182
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:10,320
So it's, it's, it's lovely man.
And, and I think, oh, sorry.

1183
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:13,760
And I think having three people
is great because if one of us is

1184
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:17,520
having a bit of a down day or
we're not as energetic, somebody

1185
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:19,640
else can kind of carry the baton
for us.

1186
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:21,920
So we can really help each other
out as a team.

1187
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:25,920
Yeah, man.
And you've heard about my

1188
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:26,680
podcast.
Name.

1189
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:29,880
Where does rage whale come from?
Sorry for my ignorance.

1190
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:32,680
No dude, it's great.
It's definitely not.

1191
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:35,640
Ignorant at all because the
reason I signed on to it, I say

1192
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:38,040
signed on like just jumped in.
I was like, this sounds awesome.

1193
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:40,960
The name I was like, I've never
heard anything like that and

1194
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:44,440
it's almost got no no connection
to movies whatsoever, which I

1195
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:45,880
love.
It's just like angry whales.

1196
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:52,160
But where it comes from.
Is it Kevin James were I think

1197
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:57,320
it was Glastonbury or somewhere
and it Rage Against the Machine

1198
00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:02,360
was playing and they were on a
blow up whale like like like a

1199
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:05,720
whale bed thing and they were
getting carried across the

1200
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:10,880
audience and they used the rage
part of Rage Against the

1201
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:13,480
Machine.
And the whale because of the

1202
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:16,240
blow up thing they were on where
they almost like fell to their

1203
01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:18,960
death when the when the crowd
went and then they like fell

1204
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:20,840
through.
So they're like, yeah, rage

1205
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:22,520
whale.
And I was like, I just love it

1206
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:25,560
because it's so catchy.
It's so different and it's not

1207
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:28,080
it's not boxed into its own
thing.

1208
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:33,840
Do you know what I mean?
It has a lot of options to that

1209
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:36,200
name.
I love how you said that like

1210
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:38,160
your.
Podcast is kind of like your men

1211
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:41,160
shared or your men circle,
because it has definitely become

1212
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:45,520
a bit of a butt of a joke, a bit
of a meme to say that like men

1213
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:49,080
get into their 30s and they
either get really get into

1214
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:51,800
hunting or free climbing or
making a podcast.

1215
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:55,840
I remember a former, you know,
workplace of mine.

1216
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:59,320
They, they actually put up
little, little cartoons in one

1217
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:03,800
of the call rooms and one, one
of them was a, a little crude

1218
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:06,040
cartoon of a, a couple having
sex.

1219
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:08,960
And the, the woman is like, say
it again.

1220
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:11,600
And the man says, I am, I have
no desire to start a podcast.

1221
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:15,760
So it's become this meme of
like, oh, that's so typical,

1222
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:17,880
whatever.
But I would actually encourage

1223
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:20,640
you if there's a man in your
life that wants to start a

1224
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:23,840
podcast, to just just let him do
it.

1225
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:27,320
Let them do it.
It's, it's, it's a lot of fun

1226
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:31,960
and it's, it's a really
interesting art form.

1227
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:35,840
I find I just, I've been a
podcast nerd long before I, I

1228
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:38,560
put myself behind the mic and
yeah, I just love it.

1229
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:41,000
I'm sure you feel similar.
Oh, dude.

1230
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:42,720
Well, yeah, it's.
Like you said, it's an it's an

1231
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:45,960
outlet, right?
And I think men, men aren't as

1232
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:48,600
good as women at meeting up.
Like women are like, oh, I'm

1233
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:50,680
meeting, you know, Stacey on
Wednesday and da, da da.

1234
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:52,640
And we're doing all our things
and they've got all these things

1235
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:55,360
planned and prepared.
Men are just like, yeah, we

1236
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:57,600
might meet up.
Nah, I'm not going to do it.

1237
01:01:57,680 --> 01:01:59,960
You're like, what?
And then it's like having that

1238
01:01:59,960 --> 01:02:04,320
ability to talk to people like
we're doing now is that is our

1239
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:08,680
social way.
And yeah, it, it gives me that

1240
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:10,720
kind of interaction.
And I feel like I am hanging out

1241
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:13,480
with friends because they are my
friends and I'm, I'm very lucky

1242
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:15,040
for it.
And that that's something I look

1243
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:17,720
forward to in my, in my month,
you know, those little kind of

1244
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:21,360
moments of interacting with the
guys and, and, and the guests.

1245
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:25,880
But dude, I'm so glad that you,
you found your way into podcasts

1246
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:29,160
through your passion, because
we're grateful to have you and

1247
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:31,080
your awesome voice and what
you're doing with.

1248
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:35,720
I think therefore I slam and
creating a platform for poets

1249
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:37,080
like you're getting poetry out
there.

1250
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:38,160
And I think that's the other
thing.

1251
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:44,600
One of my missions is to get
poetry beyond poets because I

1252
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:48,720
want normal people to appreciate
poetry and I and I think there's

1253
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:53,080
so much benefit to it.
If people could just get past

1254
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:57,320
that strange feeling of going, I
just read a poetry book and like

1255
01:02:57,320 --> 01:02:58,880
feeling dirty about it.
Do you know what I mean?

1256
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:01,640
It's, it's such a weird thing.
It's like, and I feel like that

1257
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:04,320
is happening though, because
more and more there's millions

1258
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,040
of poets now like, and
everyone's out there just

1259
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:09,920
speaking their truth and, and I
think it's, it's, it's

1260
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:12,200
beautiful, man.
And people are trying to elevate

1261
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:14,560
each other and create platforms
for it and get it out there.

1262
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:18,200
So there there is a need.
It was even on, I think.

1263
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:21,080
Is it Johnny?
Johnny Green is on Britain's Got

1264
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:22,920
Talent.
Spoken word poetry, man.

1265
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:24,680
Yeah, it's out there.
Yeah, absolutely.

1266
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:27,680
We had, we had Brandon Leake.
Who?

1267
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:31,040
Won America's Got Talent in 2020
with slam as well.

1268
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:32,560
Had a great chat with him last
season.

1269
01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:35,240
So and I think there you go.
That's what I mean.

1270
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:38,720
I think maybe podcasting is, is
has so much potential to bring

1271
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:42,520
it out there because podcasting
is, is quite personable.

1272
01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:44,800
You know, no one, no one can
tell what you're listening to

1273
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:46,320
with your noise cancelling
whatever.

1274
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:49,040
They're not, they're not looking
at, at, you know, the book and

1275
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:51,200
and whatever and being like, oh,
what's what's up with them?

1276
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:53,440
You know you're hiding it behind
another book like you're

1277
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:54,160
reading.
Poetry.

1278
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:55,960
But there's actually a book.
It's like a cookery book.

1279
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:57,520
And they're like, oh, it's just
looking at ingredients.

1280
01:03:57,520 --> 01:03:58,640
And you're like, oh, it is
poetry.

1281
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:01,600
Andrew, I wanna direct you.
Towards the overarching creative

1282
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:05,480
analogy that we have for Season
3, and I want to ask you is if

1283
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:09,520
your creative work was a colour
or a shade on the colour

1284
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:12,400
spectrum, what do you think it
is and why?

1285
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:19,480
I think maybe orange.
OK, because nothing rhymes with

1286
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:22,640
it.
Is that why maybe?

1287
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:25,160
Maybe, I don't know, there's
something about orange.

1288
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:30,200
Like I feel like it can be
calming or kind of powerful

1289
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:33,600
maybe, or healing.
I don't know.

1290
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:37,480
I'd like, I'd like to think that
maybe my poetry could be one of

1291
01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:40,040
those things.
Like, I don't know.

1292
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:43,400
I, I think it's interesting to
have a colour as A and it's hard

1293
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:47,120
to pick just one colour as well,
because hopefully as an artist

1294
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:50,000
you'd, you'd have a, a range of
colours.

1295
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:53,160
What colour's your No, that's
not fair.

1296
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:55,000
You can't turn that back.
On me poetry.

1297
01:04:56,840 --> 01:04:59,840
Joseph Editor.
Take this out, OK?

1298
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:04,080
Look, I've always, I've always
loved blue.

1299
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:06,960
I've always loved blue in all
its shades.

1300
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:12,440
Blue eye blue, ocean blue, sky
blue, electric blue, neon blue.

1301
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:16,680
I know what it means when people
say they feel blue.

1302
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:21,880
One of my favorite songs it's
it's called Deep Burn Blue.

1303
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:25,040
You know, I was about to say
electric indigo, but that's not

1304
01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:27,800
quite blue.
Yeah.

1305
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:28,680
So.
So that's me.

1306
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:30,400
But I'm always interested
because I'm trying to build

1307
01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:34,160
this, this painting, this kind
of this palette of, of, of

1308
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:36,120
different, different people's
experiences.

1309
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:40,200
And orange reminds me of like.
The sun like either coming up or

1310
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:44,560
going down and I think we
incorporate a lot of nature

1311
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:47,600
through poetry and how we
describe things.

1312
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:50,400
So for sure that's another
element for the for the orange.

1313
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:51,960
Day ends.
Day begins.

1314
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:53,560
New beginning.
And it tastes good.

1315
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:54,880
It tastes good or if you put a
little.

1316
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:58,040
Kind of if you put cloves in it,
it it's great.

1317
01:05:58,040 --> 01:05:59,200
You know, at Christmas time,
that's lovely.

1318
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:00,200
That's yeah.
Orange.

1319
01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:01,480
More Northern.
Hemisphere.

1320
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:03,120
Christmas.
Than than Southern hemisphere,

1321
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:06,480
it's a bit a bit hot for for
mulled wine and yeah, yeah,

1322
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:07,920
yeah, yeah put a put an orange
on the.

1323
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:09,080
Barbie.
That's it.

1324
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:12,760
That's it.
We now turn our attention to the

1325
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:15,480
segment shamelessly ripped off
Diary of a CEO.

1326
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:19,560
It's called Diary of a POET.
I'm sure all you people at the

1327
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:21,920
UK know Stephen.
You can apologise to him for me.

1328
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:24,960
That's that's all good.
So you've had a question left

1329
01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:28,480
for you by my previous guest,
Andrew Paris Rosemont wants to

1330
01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:33,800
know what have you purposefully
left out of your poetry and what

1331
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:37,360
does that omission seek to
protect hot seat time?

1332
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:39,480
I think that's a very, very.
It's a it's.

1333
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:45,960
A great question, great work.
I think sometimes if I'm telling

1334
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:50,720
a story, because sometimes I've
heard friends say something or

1335
01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:55,120
I've heard stuff in the streets
or people that I might know, and

1336
01:06:55,120 --> 01:06:57,680
obviously, like they do in
movies and go, the names have

1337
01:06:57,680 --> 01:06:59,920
been removed to protect the
people involved.

1338
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:03,480
I'd say there's an element of
that with some of the pieces

1339
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:04,240
that I've written.
Yeah.

1340
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:07,480
Boundaries again, Exactly.
And then sometimes I.

1341
01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:13,520
Think I've, I've removed some of
the real harsh realities because

1342
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:17,400
like a lot of the stuff going on
in Gaza at the moment, I've

1343
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:21,760
wrote a piece in my book called
Lost in the Normal.

1344
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:26,560
But it's more from our point of
view rather than going into the

1345
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:29,360
graphic details of the
horrendous things that are

1346
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:32,240
happening.
Because I don't think we need to

1347
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:37,920
be reminded of that in the sense
I know how horrendous it is And

1348
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:41,720
there's something, it seems, it
seems wrong sometimes writing

1349
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:45,320
something from the point of
people's lives are being taken

1350
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:46,920
and that shouldn't be turned
into content.

1351
01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:50,360
That's that's just my opinion.
But at the same time, I guess

1352
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:54,440
some people will write about
those horrors of war to try and

1353
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:57,320
make it more poignant and more
important and stick in the minds

1354
01:07:57,320 --> 01:07:59,640
of people.
But like you're saying about the

1355
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:03,680
idea of triggers, the idea of
reading something graphic

1356
01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:06,400
connected to those horrendous
things happening.

1357
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:09,400
And, and, and it's almost hard
to believe that it is, that it

1358
01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:12,640
is happening in this world.
And, and all we can do is just

1359
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:16,880
have conversations about it.
But can our conversations change

1360
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:19,560
it?
Can our conversations help heal

1361
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:22,640
those in need or change the
circumstances?

1362
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:27,040
Yeah, they're very well said.
Andrew Horner, just before we

1363
01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:31,439
hear your your final closing
piece for today, where can

1364
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:35,120
people go to follow you, find
out more about you, get your

1365
01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:38,880
books, follow all these, these
new film projects that you're,

1366
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:41,319
you're, you're working on.
Where's, where's the best spots

1367
01:08:41,319 --> 01:08:43,800
for them to head?
I mean, I, I, I just say check

1368
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:46,120
out.
At Tales of the Nook or or

1369
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:49,319
Rageway as well, because.
Because sometimes I do shameless

1370
01:08:49,319 --> 01:08:52,479
plug plugging on there.
No, the guys are really sweet.

1371
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:54,520
Like sometimes they'll they'll
promote certain things or

1372
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:57,720
projects that are happening.
So people are interested in in

1373
01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:00,840
wanting to know what's going on
in in my sphere, as it were.

1374
01:09:00,840 --> 01:09:05,560
Then that's that's a place you
can check out in regards to the

1375
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:08,680
my books.
I think if you just go into any

1376
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:12,240
kind of like URL or Google and
just put Andrew Horner poetry, I

1377
01:09:12,240 --> 01:09:14,520
think it'll probably bring up
both of my books, My Life in

1378
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:17,680
Pieces and Drunk on Lies, Sober
on Truth.

1379
01:09:18,160 --> 01:09:22,080
There is actually an audio
version that I recorded for

1380
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:25,479
Audible of my first book, which
is lovely, that people can like

1381
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:29,279
they're walking their dog or,
you know, they're in a car or

1382
01:09:29,279 --> 01:09:30,479
something.
They can listen to it in their

1383
01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:32,840
ears as opposed to reading
because don't read and drive

1384
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:35,520
because that's dangerous.
But yeah, because some people

1385
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:37,800
don't always have time to read.
And I and I, I get that.

1386
01:09:38,319 --> 01:09:42,000
So yeah, you can just hear me
reciting the poetry kind of like

1387
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:44,479
what I was doing in in this
episode, more of it.

1388
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:46,880
And yeah, I guess.
If if there's any links to any.

1389
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:51,040
Films or anything, then I I'd
probably put it through the the

1390
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:53,840
kind of tales of the Nook.
You can watch that film that I

1391
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:55,840
mentioned Pola is on is on
Amazon.

1392
01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:58,880
I think it's on Prime now, if
people are interested in that.

1393
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:04,120
By Dominic Jackson and Oh yeah,
man, strong enough to break guys

1394
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:07,040
that yeah.
Thomas Almeida, Creative tales,

1395
01:10:07,480 --> 01:10:11,200
Spotify, Amazon, I think Apple
Music.

1396
01:10:12,440 --> 01:10:14,840
Yeah, Amazon Music.
Like it's it's it's out there.

1397
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:16,080
Yeah.
Brilliant.

1398
01:10:16,480 --> 01:10:17,800
And we'll have links to all of
that.

1399
01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:21,400
In the episode description, a
wealth of riches, a wealth of

1400
01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:23,360
riches.
This conversation has been it's

1401
01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:25,160
been awesome.
Dude, I'm I'm.

1402
01:10:25,440 --> 01:10:26,480
I'm.
Extremely grateful.

1403
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:30,280
For you jumping on here today,
would love to for you to play us

1404
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:31,760
out with your your final piece
today.

1405
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:33,440
Well, mate, it's been an
absolute pleasure, man.

1406
01:10:33,440 --> 01:10:35,440
The pleasure is.
All mine, but so thank you so

1407
01:10:35,440 --> 01:10:37,160
much for the opportunity to be
on here.

1408
01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:42,000
My final piece is called My
Reality, What's Real In my

1409
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:45,880
reality, my pain is pretty real
as my mind makes that clear to

1410
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:49,480
me, but memories are mixed up in
a thick fog as I'm losing all

1411
01:10:49,480 --> 01:10:52,160
clarity.
My pain is like paint you see

1412
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:55,880
that has been spilled across
many stages of my life as I'm

1413
01:10:55,880 --> 01:10:58,840
confused by the time it takes to
make all those wrongs ripe.

1414
01:10:59,440 --> 01:11:02,240
Memories of being fine feel like
flickers in the flame.

1415
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:05,680
The theme tune to my life is the
sound of constant pain.

1416
01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:10,280
My mind like a labyrinth lost in
circles only to find myself once

1417
01:11:10,280 --> 01:11:13,360
again.
No cure or exit so I'm trapped

1418
01:11:13,360 --> 01:11:16,440
with this constant pain.
But if water was that healing

1419
01:11:16,440 --> 01:11:18,920
touch then I'm that desert
crying out for the rain.

1420
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:23,280
Hope to be fully me once again.
Feels like I'm trapped in a

1421
01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:26,840
psychological game that lasts
for years instead of days.

1422
01:11:27,160 --> 01:11:30,320
Where trauma and lack of self
worth with ingredients to blame

1423
01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:33,960
deep within.
Hiding behind fake bone as I cry

1424
01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:38,240
behind my skin, there's a rare
kind of peace I crave that

1425
01:11:38,280 --> 01:11:40,840
ceases to begin every single
day.

1426
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:44,440
Wanting to kiss this pain away.
It's just sadly becoming hearsay

1427
01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:47,800
I felt.
I feel it's in front of me

1428
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:51,400
sometimes, like it's on the
cards, but the pessimistic side

1429
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:53,600
convinces me it's nothing more
than a mirage.

1430
01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:56,560
Thinking back to when I was
paying free is just way too

1431
01:11:56,560 --> 01:11:59,320
fucking harsh.
I feel like something has been

1432
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:02,080
stolen away.
There was a high steep inside

1433
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:05,640
for the jewel of my life, the
essence of my being, the reason

1434
01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:08,680
for my living, where at times
the fears turn my lungs into

1435
01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:11,120
stone walls and try to stop me
from breathing.

1436
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:14,800
This dizzy world I contend with
as I try to breakthrough the

1437
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:18,120
ceiling, as the fragments of
hope crumble away, I try to find

1438
01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:21,680
a crumb to believe in.
Broken frame but heart still

1439
01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:24,480
pumping just the same.
Or like a machine gun full of

1440
01:12:24,480 --> 01:12:27,040
rage.
A new body, like a second skin,

1441
01:12:27,480 --> 01:12:29,200
a New Hope where I could escape
in.

1442
01:12:29,680 --> 01:12:32,880
But I've missed the old me as
that's the original form I came

1443
01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:35,880
in.
A version of myself I so badly

1444
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:38,680
want to see.
Looking for a raft as I drown in

1445
01:12:38,680 --> 01:12:41,360
self pity in my dreams.
I'm pain free.

1446
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:43,320
Maybe that's why I'm addicted to
sleep.

1447
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:46,080
People think I'm killing time,
but that's better than killing

1448
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:49,200
me to live a kind of reality
that makes me happy.

1449
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:53,040
But when my eyes open, I'm back
to that pain and this complex

1450
01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:56,280
city concrete kills the soul.
My eyes wish to drink up

1451
01:12:56,280 --> 01:12:58,840
nature's paintings, every colour
in her palette.

1452
01:12:59,240 --> 01:13:02,000
But I'm lost in a time capsule,
forced to drink down

1453
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:05,320
paracetamol, numb the pain to
try to calm the mental.

1454
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:08,160
But chronic pain is the hardest
pill to swallow.

1455
01:13:08,760 --> 01:13:11,640
If it's in my mind, how do I
bring back what's mine?

1456
01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:14,800
Or is it left in my past,
something far behind?

1457
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:18,360
I pray for the day when I could
walk in this world like I do in

1458
01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:22,800
my dreams, pain free and this
existence is real, not a

1459
01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:27,320
fantastical fantasy as my life
is handed back over to me, my

1460
01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:35,000
balance, my strength, my
reality, my reality.

1461
01:13:36,040 --> 01:13:39,800
Andrew Warner, it's it's been a
pleasure you you've shown us so

1462
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:42,720
many incredible creative sides
of of what you do.

1463
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:45,720
And yeah, just really grateful
for your generosity of time

1464
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:47,760
today.
Thank you so much for thinking

1465
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:49,320
with us and slamming with us
today.

1466
01:13:50,320 --> 01:13:51,520
Dude, thank you so much for
having.

1467
01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:54,280
Us on as a guest and and and
reaching out man, I'm truly

1468
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:58,560
honoured and yeah, dude, you're
awesome and all the best with

1469
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:00,160
this this amazing podcast you've
got going on.