Going Rogue with Lara Logan - WHEN THE SYSTEM FAILS THE PEOPLE: Behind Bars with Emergency Physician Dr. David Young | Going Rogue with Lara Logan

Dr. David Young 00:00:00 So what they did is really what they gave a 63 year old man ten year sentence with a $36 million restitution. And if that stays and you're unable to get your medical license back, that's a life sentence. They offered a plea deal, I think something less than five years. But I go, no, I'm not guilty of that. And so I'm not going to plea to it.

Lara Logan 00:00:34 Welcome to this week's episode of Going Rogue with Laura Logan. Now, there's arguably no bigger story in the country than fraud. We've been hearing about it for months now. Fraud on an unbelievable scale. It crosses across government agencies. So whether you're talking about fake daycares that don't exist, that are taking money, millions of dollars, or whether you're talking about, you know, university colleges, like higher learning institutions that are taking money in grants that don't even exist. People who are not students getting grants to be students or they're not studying anything, or whether it's a fake housing grants and, also fraud within Medicare.

Lara Logan 00:01:17 And you, you, you wonder because the fraud has been going on for so long and because it's happening at such a scale, you wonder what happened to those government agencies, what happened to all those systems that are supposed to trigger fraud? What happened to, you know, institutions like the inspectors general, who's job, who was set up with the charter of figuring out when there is fraud. You know why? Why do we have people in government? Year after year after year, presiding over these agencies where fraud is happening on a scale, where we're talking about tens of millions of dollars in individual cases, some of those cases in excess of $100 million. And yet somehow, somehow, there's no duty on the government to do anything about it. Well, how does that happen? And what exactly does that mean? Well, it means that as we're shifting from a society that does everything in person, right. Remember when you used to go to the bank and do banking in person? Now you do most of your banking online? Well, the same thing has happened across government and across all the sectors that affect us.

Lara Logan 00:02:30 Remember when we were being encouraged to do telehealth? Well, this is being presented not just as an option but as a better option. It's better for you. It's easier. It costs less money, you know, and you can get the same result. Well, that's what leads us to our guest today. We are not in our normal studio, as you may have noticed. We were. We went on the road, we took rogue on the road And we came down to Bastrop in Texas, where we have set up here inside the correctional facility. Now, this part of the correctional facility is what's known as the prison camp. It's where your nonviolent offenders are held. It's a less secure facility because of the nature and type of the people who are incarcerated here. There is just across the way, a, you know, a higher level security facility that is for different types of prisoners. But we're here in the camp with, Doctor David Young. David, thank you very much for joining us.

Lara Logan 00:03:33 Thank you for having me. David is, and was an emergency room doctor for more than 30 years who, incredibly, never had a malpractice suit filed against it and has, and is somebody that I know personally. So that's kind of unusual for me because we are very good friends and and have been for a number of years. And and that is in a way why I know so much about his case and so much about his story. I was in the courtroom a number of times. I was there when he was sentenced. I was actually a witness for the defense in this case. And what is, why am I doing this or not? Because we're friends, not because I know. David. Welp, I'm doing this story because his he was wrongfully convicted. And I'm not saying that because we're friends. I'm saying that because this has happened not just to Doctor David Young. This has happened to other doctors, and it's also happened to other people. We have a problem with our justice system.

Lara Logan 00:04:35 It doesn't make sense to let violent criminals walk the streets, and then our prisons be filled with people who have endured terrible miscarriages of justice and shouldn't be there at all. And David's case is one of those. There's many of them, but it is one of those cases. and as. So. How so? What happened? Well, we're going to talk more about that and the interview. But primarily this is a case where the government and government agencies were encouraging online services. And one of the things I've learned in my reporting is that when you push services online, you elevate the scale for fraud. So, for example, of course, there's always been cheating in elections, but when you brought in digital machines, you enabled them to cheat your escape. It's the same thing with pickpocketing, right? You had to be there in person to steal from someone's pocket with credit cards and digital banking systems and all of that. You now have the potential for fraud on a massive scale. You could keep going through the examples.

Lara Logan 00:05:41 Pornography used to be a problem when you had to go to a store and buy, you know, a magazine now that you have digital porn. The porn industry has never been more prolific. It's child porn has never been greater. It's never been making more money. The digital, the digital, the online involvement has really enabled fraud to happen at scale. And and so what has happened is that there are a lot of companies took advantage of telehealth. They recruited doctors because they needed them and they conned them. And David, you were one of those doctors that was conned by one of these companies that saw an opening in the market. Things are going online. It's unregulated at the time. Right. And they recruited you to do what to do.

Dr. David Young 00:06:28 There was a couple of things that one of them was doing braces, like back braces, wrist braces, ankle bracelet orthotics. And so and some of these were advertised on TV. And then there was genetic testing those two things.

Multiple Speakers 00:06:45 And now, you know, as a breast cancer survivor, I, I am familiar with genetic testing, because I remember when I got a call out of the blue from my doctor's office and they said, oh, there's a new genetic test for a different type of gene.

Multiple Speakers 00:06:59 You've already been tested for the bracken gene, which is the typical one, but this is a different one, and you need to go and get tested. And so I did I didn't question it because I had breast cancer at the age of 41. So I'm assuming that some doctor looked at that chart of mine so my age, so that I had cancer and it took them all of 30s to say, yes, she should be tested for this other gene, right?

Dr. David Young 00:07:22 It wouldn't, it wouldn't take them long. If you mean if you were, you know, a positive you had had breast cancer, is there any other risk or do I need any further genetic testing? And so for the genetic testing and I was doing some telemedicine on the side besides doing the yard to make, you know, way to make extra money while I was, you know, because telemedicine was a new thing, I was exploring it. So with the orthotic braces, you know, that was through telemedicine, and so was the genetic testing.

Dr. David Young 00:07:54 And I was going through a recruitment position recruitment firm. So the way I understood it, these companies were vetted. And, the way I also understand it and the way these guys or the companies were able to make any money and do the billing and coding was all through Medicare. And that was, you know, and I thought that was, had already been, bested, so that the.

Multiple Speakers 00:08:23 You mean vetted.

Dr. David Young 00:08:24 Vetted, vetted through the, through the companies that were allowed to bill and code, which I didn't have any I was not doing any billing and coding. Usually I was in a, chart review. I did chart review for braces. And.

Multiple Speakers 00:08:40 Okay, let's.

Multiple Speakers 00:08:41 Let's unpack some of that just so that people know and lay out what happens. So the system is that you have, medical, staffing companies. These are recruitment firms, correct. That that recruit professional medical, people like doctors, nurse practitioners and so on. Right. And they recruit you for a firm, like for a firm that does genetic testing or a firm that does orthotic braces.

Multiple Speakers 00:09:08 Right. Okay. And so these firms then bill Medicare and Medicaid. Right. And your role as a doctor, and you're one of hundreds and hundreds of doctors that were hired to do this. So your role is for the orthotic braces. You get sent charts of patients.

Dr. David Young 00:09:29 That have already been the way I understood it during the time had already been triaged, evaluated by medical personnel, and I was hired to review the charts, approve or disapprove of a said or an orthotic.

Multiple Speakers 00:09:45 Like a knee brace.

Dr. David Young 00:09:46 A knee brace, a back brace.

Lara Logan 00:09:47 That way, something like that. Okay. And so it's your it is your understanding at the time that these patients have seen a doctor already, and now you're doing chart review. I mean, literally it said chart review in your appointment.

Dr. David Young 00:10:01 And, you know, there have been physically seen or evaluated via the telemedicine.

Multiple Speakers 00:10:08 Right.

Dr. David Young 00:10:08 The way I understand, and that's what I was hired to do.

Lara Logan 00:10:10 And is this something that is so, so for people who are not familiar with your case, you were convicted of conspiracy to commit Medicare fraud.

Lara Logan 00:10:20 Correct. And three counts of false statements or guilty on all four counts. And you were sentenced to ten years.

Dr. David Young 00:10:29 Correct.

Lara Logan 00:10:29 And that's because not because you made millions of dollars, but because they when they do the sentencing, they take the the fraud as a whole. So whatever that happens to be, I think in this case, it was in excess of $70 million. And they they hold you responsible for the whole fraud.

Multiple Speakers 00:10:45 Correct.

Lara Logan 00:10:46 And so your sentencing is then based on that, I just looked at a woman who is a nurse practitioner. Her case. She was she earned 1.4 million over several years, multiple years. But she was convicted on the basis of 142 million that they made, that the government said that they made doing exactly the same thing, by the way, well thought of graces and genetic testing. So that woman, who's a mother of five is in prison for 20 years. So, okay, so the one of the biggest issues in your case is that we have this expectation built into us as people that if a doctor is going to do something, he's seen the patient and we just assume that that is the law.

Lara Logan 00:11:32 But at the time that you were doing this, there was no such requirement. It wasn't required by Medicaid, it wasn't required by state law. It wasn't required by federal law. And yet the government argued over and over and over again in the courtroom that it was a requirement. They kept calling up witnesses that said, I got a brace and I never met Daksha.

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Dr. David Young 00:14:00 Right. And so during the way I understood it and the way I was hired and agreed to was, you know, doing chart review, that I wasn't had to be physically present because I couldn't have done it without.

Dr. David Young 00:14:14 And so the way I understood it to do chart review was exactly that. I was reviewing a patient's chart that had already been triaged. Chart was complete. I reviewed it, either accepted or denied.

Multiple Speakers 00:14:28 And that's what they told you. I mean, you.

Multiple Speakers 00:14:30 Understood that because that's what the companies told you, right?

Multiple Speakers 00:14:33 So you've got a recruiting firm that is a professional firm. Correct. And then you have these companies that are that Medicare has authorized correct to submit claims to them. Correct, and to provide these services to patients.

Dr. David Young 00:14:48 So there was two chicken, you know, for to me for so for me. They've already been through a recruiting agency, which I assume is their professional health care group or licensed to do, you know, orthotics or genetic testing and further vetted in that the government has approved these, for being billed. So that was.

Multiple Speakers 00:15:19 So you thought they were vetted on both sides? Correct. Number one, you're a company that is that is authorized, legally authorized to do genetic testing or to supply braces.

Multiple Speakers 00:15:29 And then, on the other hand, they're authorized to deal with Medicare and Medicaid. So they're dealing with the government, right.

Dr. David Young 00:15:36 And even before that, you know, if there's a recruiting agency. Agency? So then you think, well, that's already been taken care of. So they're now they're just recruiting. These are professionals recruiting other professional companies. Right. License and vetted through the government to perform whatever you know it needs, or health care or whatever it is that they're selling or they're producing or, you know, they're whatever they're providing. And in this case, providing orthotics and information to someone that potentially has cancer for genetic testing.

Multiple Speakers 00:16:18 The problem is, you didn't know none of the doctors knew, or at least most of the doctors had no idea that the data that they were providing, the charts that they were providing in some cases were false, was false. They were buying that data.

Dr. David Young 00:16:34 Yeah. And I didn't know that until I was in court.

Multiple Speakers 00:16:37 During the trial.

Dr. David Young 00:16:38 During the trial, we didn't know.

Dr. David Young 00:16:39 Well, you know, one of. One of our attorneys said that I think that's where they came from. You knew for a fact that, you know. Was again reaffirmed during trial that these that some of this was either made up or their biometrics, whatever that was. The way I understood it was even there was some server out of Pakistan.

Multiple Speakers 00:16:59 It was a server out of Pakistan. Isn't that right?

Dr. David Young 00:17:01 Yeah, yeah, because.

Multiple Speakers 00:17:02 I remember.

Dr. David Young 00:17:03 That. Well, the reason why I asked Miss Logan that and I'm gonna call her Laura. But the reason why I say that, because she was there and she heard it herself.

Multiple Speakers 00:17:12 Yeah, I heard it myself. So. So this is the part that is so, disturbing is that I. That you have companies that are buying data and you always hear, you know, you often hear that your data is valuable and you think, well, how is our data valuable? I mean, you know it. You know, intellectually you get it, but you don't realize, you know, this kind of thing is happening where people are buying your medical data.

Multiple Speakers 00:17:37 They're using it to basically carry out a scheme. And they're they're conning doctors because they needed to have your signature on there to get away with it.

Dr. David Young 00:17:45 And so to to add to that a little bit, if you're wondering what that is. So what does it look like to have you or whoever you know, is listening as podcast or this interview and that is that your data say you're a 56 year old male that has a history of having a chronic back pain, previous injury complaint of sciatic type issues that, and they have your, they know your height, your weight, your waist size, for instance, those companies will have that data. And so all that data that comes to me when I review that looks like real data, so that it looks like real data from a physician standpoint. Yeah. It all looks legitimate. And then as you know, that person has been triaged. It even looks more legitimate so that when you're reading it, you know, and reading through it from a medical standpoint, it makes medical sense or the medical jargon used or the, you know, the terminology.

Multiple Speakers 00:18:50 Used.

Dr. David Young 00:18:51 It. Well, yes. And, you know, my thoughts are now being in here. I think some of that, the verbiage and the wording in it was either professional and, or they used AI to help generate it.

Multiple Speakers 00:19:05 Yes.

Dr. David Young 00:19:06 Which now, now that, you know, we're learning about AI, I think AI generated a bunch of it because there was, the more I read, the more that I had seen the charge, the more I realized that there's must have been computer generated.

Multiple Speakers 00:19:21 Yes. And it's not hard for the computer to learn that kind of language.

Dr. David Young 00:19:24 Yeah. Once it learns the language of, you know, whatever extremity, body part, back pain, sciatica or whatever diagnosis or symptoms there are, the.

Multiple Speakers 00:19:33 It can just spit out all these different permutations. And also for you as a doctor, especially as an emergency physician. Those terms automatically mean something.

Dr. David Young 00:19:43 Correct.

Multiple Speakers 00:19:44 And they're the kind of terms that you would use when you were doing those initial reviews and managing patients.

Dr. David Young 00:19:50 And I was thinking, you know, wow, these guys are very thorough. Okay.

Multiple Speakers 00:19:54 Wow. Okay. So that's what the braces, right? With the braces, they tell you. You're hired to review charts with patients that have been seen correct already.

Dr. David Young 00:20:05 And.

Multiple Speakers 00:20:06 Correct. And of course, you don't meet the patients because there isn't a requirement to meet the patients. But then with the genetic testing, you're just looking at their medical history to see if they if it makes sense for them to have that test.

Dr. David Young 00:20:22 Correct. And these are and the way I understood it, these are people requesting it. You know, I'm not going through the approval or disapproval. You know, it'd be like, you know, doing a matching something. Well, gee, you know, dad had prostate cancer. I'm having issues. Am I at risk? What were the the chances of me being at risk for having prostate cancer? You know, whether it's pancreatic cancer, you know, you could name the cancer, you know, for women.

Dr. David Young 00:20:47 And you're looking at breast cancer, ovarian cancer, uterine cancer, same type of things. And you think, well, you know, that's you know, it's interesting. And then, you know, through your process, we we learn enough genetics to be able to, you know, match things. And so you think, well, you know, this is pretty straightforward.

Multiple Speakers 00:21:06 Well, yeah, I mean, especially because I know from being a cancer survivor that when you had cancer at 41, they are convinced that you're going to get there's a good chance you're going to get it again. Right. And so if you've already had it and a new genetic test comes up, the chances of them saying no to that are small.

Dr. David Young 00:21:25 And then, you know, I didn't know how the you know. And so that's true. So these are the way, the way it's presented, the way I receive a chart, I get a history, you know? Yeah. Laura Logan so-and-so, you're old. This and this history of breast cancer, concerned about risk of having further breast cancer or other cancers associated with this? Is there a syndrome potentially that you have.

Dr. David Young 00:21:50 And so you're you're looking at those things. I'm reviewing those. And that's what I was doing. And these are, you know, from patients that I understood that had requested it, you know. So go ahead.

Multiple Speakers 00:22:02 Well, I just you know, I want people to understand that this process that you were going through, this was done with multiple companies and hundreds of doctors, and the government was paying out, you know, tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions. and in 2017, a whistleblower actually came forward, but it wasn't until 2022, five years later, that the government told the public. So they let this go on year after year after year. And I know there's no because I was at the appeal in New Orleans and I listened to the government's arguments. I know there's no law that says that the government has to act in a certain amount of time or whatever. Right. But ethically and morally correct. the people of the United States expect that those agencies, if they're fraudulent, are triggered or you have a whistleblower come forward, that it's why is it going to take you five years to tell doctors, hey, or the public? This is a con and you may be at risk here, right?

Dr. David Young 00:23:14 So that, you know, in telemedicine itself.

Dr. David Young 00:23:16 And if you just watch your commercials right now, all of these have increased. Whether you want a GOP one, whether it's, medicines for erectile dysfunction, like with hims and hers and Ro Roman. Those are all telemedicine, and a lot of them aren't seen by physicians. And I worked a little bit for Roman. I was there and I can tell you for for Viagra I was I don't know what the company was making, but for the physician, they were paying us anywhere from 5 to $15 a chart, and I believe it was $5 a chart. So that's a lot of charts you've got to look at before you can, you know, make any money with, you know, just.

Multiple Speakers 00:23:53 Make it worthwhile.

Dr. David Young 00:23:54 Correct. Same thing with like with the a lot of the orthotics. it's $17 a chart, I think. With the genetics was like $30 a chart. But the thing is, is, you know, it does take time to get through those. Of course you get you get faster, and you're able to look at the charts quicker with time and be able to go through them.

Dr. David Young 00:24:19 But, you know, it's not like you're, you know, this huge number of I'm making millions of dollars on these things because you're.

Multiple Speakers 00:24:27 Well, that's you know, that brings me to an important point, because that is one of the things that the prosecution really used to. Their advantage was the speed with which you approved some of the some of these charges. Correct. because I think the fastest that you ever did it was in like a minute.

Dr. David Young 00:24:43 Two.

Multiple Speakers 00:24:44 Minutes, two minutes, is somewhere around there. So.

Dr. David Young 00:24:48 I think somewhere.

Multiple Speakers 00:24:49 Like a minute or two minutes. Yeah. but this is the issue, though, in the E.R., when somebody, when a patient comes in, how much time do you have? So for instance, to make a medical assessment.

Dr. David Young 00:25:01 So the thing is you come in with okay this will give you a and this is very important. And this is anyone that is watching this. And that is if you come in with chest pain we give 4 or 5 minutes of maximum.

Dr. David Young 00:25:14 and you know, we do metrics on this. You come in with chest pain, you're going to have your shirt off, get an EKG. You're supposed to have that EKG done within five minutes. You enter in that door with chest bay. Five minutes. And that's me reading it. Not the computer readout, me reading it because I have to overeat a lot of times, because a lot of times the computer will, you know, will get what it says on there wrong. So you've really got to read the EKG and you got to get it right, because we're talking about, you know. number one, malpractice cases in an emergency room is a missed myocardial infarction, so you can't miss it. And, you know, I've been praised, God. And praise the Lord that, you know, I was able to do that for 30 plus years without making a mistake.

Multiple Speakers 00:26:00 It's just, it's incredible that the government can take something like that. Like your skill, your mastery of medicine and your experience from the E.R. where you're making split second decisions and use it so effectively against you in the courtroom to say, if he's doing anything this fast, it's not legitimate.

Dr. David Young 00:26:20 Yeah. Because the thing is, if you're looking for, you know, certain things if you have sciatic. Back pain in the time I just said that, you know, with about 3 or 4 more points, I don't have to know much more before I, you know, the right things in that evaluation are said that would approve you, that you know or disapprove or say that you know, this person does or doesn't need it, but it doesn't take me, you know, five minutes to decide. Somebody needs a back brace if they've already been evaluated. And I'm reviewing the chart.

Multiple Speakers 00:26:49 Yeah.

Dr. David Young 00:26:49 You know, it's like looking at somebody lab work and me telling you, well, I can't figure out if you have a kidney failure or not. Well, I should be able to figure that out in about, you know, a minute.

Multiple Speakers 00:26:59 Yeah. It's just incredible to me because, I remember one night.

Dr. David Young 00:27:05 And then I know it. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

Multiple Speakers 00:27:07 Well. And then what? What were you going to say?

Dr. David Young 00:27:10 No, I was going to tell you.

Dr. David Young 00:27:11 I would probably go on about how to treat the kidney failure. So sorry. That's just the medicine in me, so I can't help it.

Multiple Speakers 00:27:17 You are a doctor to your boy.

Dr. David Young 00:27:19 I am, I really am, Even in here, I enjoy it, you know, because, you know, you think you're going to lose your idea and you lose. You feel like you're losing your identity when you come in here because your license has been suspended. But the thing is, you still end up serving in practice in medicine because you, you know, if you're really, you know, that was you know, I think it's truly one of God's gifts to me is that is this not just being a servant, but the healing in medicine?

Multiple Speakers 00:27:52 Well, you are one of seven boys and all seven of you are doctors.

Dr. David Young 00:27:57 One of eight.

Multiple Speakers 00:27:58 One of eight boys. You have seven brothers and they're old doctors. They lost. The youngest is a vet.

Dr. David Young 00:28:03 Vet. Five orthopedic surgeons. Two. Your the youngest is a vet.

Multiple Speakers 00:28:07 And your father was.

Dr. David Young 00:28:08 Was a general surgeon? Yeah. Second most of the nation. Single family.

Multiple Speakers 00:28:13 Second most in the nation for family.

Dr. David Young 00:28:16 Yeah. The Guyton family was the number one in there in Mississippi.

Multiple Speakers 00:28:20 But how many doctors did they have?

Dr. David Young 00:28:21 I think they had 11.

Multiple Speakers 00:28:23 They had 11. Yeah, but your family is the second in the nation.

Dr. David Young 00:28:27 Yeah. Second most Eagle Scouts. Also.

Multiple Speakers 00:28:30 You were an Eagle Scout. Did I remember that? Yeah, that's quite something.

Lara Logan 00:28:37 You know, I remember an evening when you came back from the air and you were gray and, And pretty. You were still in your scrubs, and you were pretty bloody, and you had gone from room to room to room, intubated three patients at the same time.

Multiple Speakers 00:28:55 Yeah.

Dr. David Young 00:28:56 Yeah. It was. And I can tell you that I could not remember it, you know. And some of them I don't remember, but one of them was an accidental overdose. She had been the ante. They gave her something to help sedate her, apparently.

Dr. David Young 00:29:08 But she got over sedated, and she wasn't able to protect her airway. And so they wheeled her over from the clinic and had to intubate her. The other one was, a Ago and I think it was on methamphetamine, had dislocated his shoulder and I had to get his shoulder back in and he was becoming very agitated, very hostile. And we had to use rapid sequence intubation and intubated him. And the other one was crashing from she was septic and having a GI bleed, and, she was anemic and said septic. So all three of those at the same time.

Multiple Speakers 00:29:47 And all three of them.

Dr. David Young 00:29:49 Survived.

Multiple Speakers 00:29:52 It's incredible.

Dr. David Young 00:29:53 It was I mean, you know, I mean, and you got to decide now.

Multiple Speakers 00:29:59 Those are instant decisions, life and death decisions.

Dr. David Young 00:30:01 And I'll say we're going to intubate this. We're going to debate this. We got to get debate this one.

Multiple Speakers 00:30:04 So when you're sitting looking at a chart for genetic testing or orthotic braces, those are not those are not difficult decisions.

Dr. David Young 00:30:12 They're not difficult decisions. Because the amount of decisions and the micro decisions you're making, you're looking at live, you're doing an assessment. And then, you know, I used to say this to the sicker the patient, the easier it is because you could do the, you know, kind of airway, breathing, circulation. They be, you know, kind of the ABCs of medicine. So the sickest are actually the easier it is.

Multiple Speakers 00:30:35 So what what was interesting to see the government operate during your trial is that their key witnesses all testified that they went to extraordinary lengths to conceal the conspiracy from you. They never had a single witness that connected you to the conspiracy. But what they did was they took your mastery of medicine, your skill, your experience, and the speed with which you could make decisions. They used that against you because over five years, I think you did this. Yep. They they they did that stunt where they walked into the courtroom carrying, you know.

Dr. David Young 00:31:10 Stacks of stacks.

Multiple Speakers 00:31:11 Of charts to demonstrate the scale. So they use speed and scale And in the end, speed and scale were what convicted you? Yes. There was no other evidence?

Dr. David Young 00:31:22 No.

Multiple Speakers 00:31:23 There was no patient that was harmed? No, they didn't bring forth any witnesses that said, you know, I suffered this or I suffered that. They just put witnesses for it. That said, I never saw David. I never saw Doctor Young.

Dr. David Young 00:31:34 Which wasn't the law at the time.

Multiple Speakers 00:31:35 Which was not the law at the time. And actually, you know, trying to.

Dr. David Young 00:31:39 And, and then even during that process, you know, you think, well, you're not prescribing medicine. So you're, you know, the, the risk of harm to any patient doing telemedicine during that is very low unless somebody puts a brace on or trips over the brace. And I'm not being facetious. I mean, I'm just saying that, you know, or they put it on too tight because I'm thinking, well, you know, the risk of.

Multiple Speakers 00:32:03 Isn't that the whole justification for taking.

Dr. David Young 00:32:05 Medicine.

Multiple Speakers 00:32:06 Is that you're dealing with things that are not life and death.

Dr. David Young 00:32:08 Correct?

Multiple Speakers 00:32:09 Because surely if you're dealing with things that are considered life and death, that you I mean, everybody wants to be seen in person.

Dr. David Young 00:32:16 And I think this is interesting, too. I mean, you know, people are always, I'm not going to pick on, for erectile dysfunction and the amount of the medicine that they use or what are called phosphodiesterase inhibitors, but they cause vasodilation. Well, yes, you can have a heart attack or you could potentially have a stroke. You know, it increases nitric oxide and gives, you know, these people an erection. But the side effect I mean there's a significant potential side effect profile or, you know, if somebody could have an erection for four hours and then, you know, they could auto amputate their penis, it happens or they're blood clots. And so this is, you know, those are the potential, you know.

Multiple Speakers 00:32:58 So what you're saying is that the potential side effects and risks of something like erectile dysfunction medication are far greater than the potential side effects with a brace.

Dr. David Young 00:33:09 Right. And nobody blinks. And I order Ordering those all day long.

Multiple Speakers 00:33:14 All day long. Yeah. That's true. You said it's on your.

Dr. David Young 00:33:16 It's finished on your TV all day long.

Multiple Speakers 00:33:18 Yeah.

Dr. David Young 00:33:19 And that was your GLP ones.

Multiple Speakers 00:33:21 And same for GLP ones.

Dr. David Young 00:33:23 Yes. And I mean they're they're peptides that I mean they there's a lot of potential side effects. But they have to be reviewed and reviewed by physicians. But you know, are all these being reviewed by physicians or are they going through nurse practitioners or is it is it a chart review or is it taking face to face, or is it just reviewing, you know, same thing, biometrics and approving them? I don't know the answer to that right now because it's changed.

Multiple Speakers 00:33:51 Yeah. Well, that's the thing. There is a clause actually under the law, it's called ex post facto.

Multiple Speakers 00:33:57 And ex post facto means that you cannot hold somebody accountable today for something that wasn't illegal at the time. Right. The law I mean, that's what it basically means effectively is that.

Lara Logan 00:34:09 And so that's what's you know, there are some rules in place today, but at the time those rules were not in place. So no holding you accountable. And the government basically infected everything with this. This this claim that this suggestion, I mean, that you didn't see the patients, therefore you did something wrong. But if that were the case, every doctor doing health, doing telemedicine would be a criminal.

Dr. David Young 00:34:34 Yes. Unless, you know, unless they were doing face to face. But I think even for erectile dysfunction medicine at the time, you know, in different states, at different laws, for instance, Arizona required face to face with telemedicine. State of Texas did none so that it's hundreds of thousands or potentially, you know, a million or so people getting erectile dysfunction medicines without seeing a physician. So is that.

Multiple Speakers 00:35:04 Yeah.

Dr. David Young 00:35:05 And so, you know, you think of, oh, the braces and or and then you're. you know, this is you know, my thought process during that period is, well, you know, that's kind of a big deal there. These aren't medications. So, you know, you take your oath, do no harm. You know, how can I be doing any harm? And these are also because I've been through this is, you know, you didn't know about the the fraud part of this. You didn't. I mean, because you don't think like that. My whole life's been in the most of all. My life's been in the emergency room. So you don't do any billing, coding, and you're not used to any kind of thought process of fraud.

Multiple Speakers 00:35:46 So. Yeah, that's let's talk about that. you would review these charts and you didn't submit them to Medicare or Medicaid. You sent them back to the company. Correct. And the company, you never saw what they sent forward.

Dr. David Young 00:36:01 Correct.

Multiple Speakers 00:36:02 So the company could do whatever it wanted on those charts.

Dr. David Young 00:36:05 And we found out more. Go ahead, because you're going to get there. But yes.

Multiple Speakers 00:36:09 You found out.

Dr. David Young 00:36:10 What? Well, we found out during the. Trial that some of these cases or some of these charts were even duplicated.

Multiple Speakers 00:36:23 And.

Dr. David Young 00:36:23 Duplicated in that they charged twice.

Multiple Speakers 00:36:26 Yes. And you had no idea.

Dr. David Young 00:36:27 I had no.

Multiple Speakers 00:36:28 Idea. And in the E.R., do you have anything to do with billing, you know, insurance or Medicare or Medicaid? You know, so you see the patient. You do your part, and then you hand them off, and it's done rarely.

Dr. David Young 00:36:38 And if there's ever something that is not documented, it doesn't happen that often. If there's something you didn't accidentally document. Let's say you're you have congestive heart failure. And I didn't document the, you know, their EKG for whatever reason or their chest X-ray. you know, occasionally somebody will come from billing and coding. It's like, oh, you didn't comment on so-and-so.

Dr. David Young 00:37:05 Oh, let me put that in the chart. But that didn't even happen very often because usually I do.

Lara Logan 00:37:12 So this is something. I mean, it's just it's it's really was frustrating for me to see this happen, that you could have someone who like yourself, who has just been, who's been conned, who's been hired by these people. There's who they they have complete control of the process. They're buying the data and sending you charts that are illegitimate. You don't know that when you get them. And then on top of that, when they're submitting it to these big government agencies, they're putting whatever they want on there. And you have no idea because you don't even see those charts. And then, and then the government steps back from that and argues that in spite of the fact that there's hundreds and hundreds of doctors that did this, they targeted only a handful.

Dr. David Young 00:37:59 Yeah. And so, and we yes, they targeted only a handful. And why is that?

Multiple Speakers 00:38:06 Well, that's a very good question.

Multiple Speakers 00:38:08 Why?

Dr. David Young 00:38:08 We still don't know. You don't know?

Multiple Speakers 00:38:11 I mean, with you, they could say it's the scale. It's because of the number of shots that you did. It wasn't the money. Because how much money did you make over. What was it, five years.

Dr. David Young 00:38:19 Five years? Less than 600,000.

Multiple Speakers 00:38:22 Less than $600,000 in five years. And, and for that, you got ten years in prison.

Dr. David Young 00:38:29 And $36 million restitution. So what they did is really what they gave a 63 year old man, or 62 at the time, 62 years old, ten year sentence with a $36 million restitution. And if that stays and you're unable to get your medical license back, that's a life sentence.

Multiple Speakers 00:38:52 And all of these agencies that were involved. Now I will say there's a bunch of people involved in the fraud who were part of the conspiracy, who all took a plea deal.

Dr. David Young 00:39:03 Correct. And I didn't believe.

Multiple Speakers 00:39:04 And why not?

Dr. David Young 00:39:05 Because I'm not going to. I'm not going to plead to something I didn't do.

Dr. David Young 00:39:09 I didn't conspire, I didn't know the companies I did. I didn't design the companies, I didn't design the process. And so I'm not going to admit to that. And so I fought it all the way. I'm not going to, you know, they they they offered a plea deal, I think something less than five years. But I go, no, I'm not guilty of that. And so I'm not going to plead to it. So I fought it.

Multiple Speakers 00:39:30 You regret it now that you know the outcome.

Dr. David Young 00:39:32 I still. You know what? No.

Multiple Speakers 00:39:37 I know that's that's a hard thing for you.

Dr. David Young 00:39:39 Oh it's horrible. So by now. So with the years that have gone by and during that process, we also with some of that money, you know, that we had in vitro.

Multiple Speakers 00:39:53 Fertilization.

Dr. David Young 00:39:54 Fertilization. And now we have, you know, we went through five miscarriages and have a boy and a girl, twins, which were extremely grateful for. They're now six years old. I got served on December 2nd, 2020, after I'd had an esophageal, hernia repair and the kids were four months old.

Multiple Speakers 00:40:17 So just so people understand, you're saying that part of the money that you earned in that time.

Dr. David Young 00:40:22 I went to.

Multiple Speakers 00:40:23 You went to in vitro fertilization for your for your wife Karen, who was also a good friend of mine. And you had your twins, Boone and Bella.

Dr. David Young 00:40:32 Yep.

Multiple Speakers 00:40:34 and so for you to say you regret it, I meant, did you regret not taking the deal?

Dr. David Young 00:40:40 I know I don't. And the thing is to go back to that. So. No, I don't regret it. I was the thing that the part that you would regret is. Losing that time that you could have had with the kids. Because if I would have taken a plea deal, I would probably be out of prison by now. Be home. I may not be able to be a practicing physician, but I would be home with my wife and kids, but I couldn't.

Multiple Speakers 00:41:12 You'd be a liar.

Dr. David Young 00:41:13 Yeah, I couldn't, I couldn't do it.

Multiple Speakers 00:41:15 I could be a liar. And the kids.

Multiple Speakers 00:41:17 Someone who said you did something you didn't do.

Dr. David Young 00:41:19 Correct. And I couldn't live with myself like that. And the kids, when they'll understand when they get older. The dad didn't. They didn't play. They didn't. You know, it's a corrupt system, you know? And I thought back during the time I go, this is unfair. I said, you know. You know, maybe it's a civil you can find me, but, you know, take my license and take my life away to take my, you know, career away. To have done all what we got. What I've done through that time period and, you know, in emergency medicine and pleaded that, no, I'm not going to do that. I just can't do it. and then I have to. I have to live on that. And then God ought to show me the way. God will show me the rest of the way.

Multiple Speakers 00:42:08 Well, there are a lot of people that are put in that position by the Department of Justice.

Multiple Speakers 00:42:14 There's a lot of people that are bullied into taking a plea deal and that take it out of fear.

Dr. David Young 00:42:19 It's oh, it's horrible. The fear is horrible. The fear. And once that came down that I was. I was in a hospital bed in recovery after my surgery. The HHS OIG had just come to my house during Covid. My wife can't be there physically, but they came to our house. I see her on. I'm looking at her on the phone and I could tell something wasn't right, something was wrong. And she looked so scared and she looked white as a ghost and she wasn't telling me something. Then she told me what happened. I said, okay, well, just one step at a time. I said, okay. You know, we're going to need to get a lawyer and let's just get to the next step. And so I did. You know, I had to wait to get home, to recover, to start, start the the the legal process.

Multiple Speakers 00:43:16 Well, the twins were four months old then, and they're six now.

Dr. David Young 00:43:19 The kids were four. Yes. And so all of their life, pretty much we've been battling.

Multiple Speakers 00:43:26 So you battled for how long to have them?

Dr. David Young 00:43:30 About three years.

Multiple Speakers 00:43:32 Wow. So it took three years to have them. You finally have the twins, and you feel like your life is coming together.

Dr. David Young 00:43:38 You feel like your your life's coming together, and, you know, you've kind of had a second chance. I remember being. Yeah. You know, I remember I remember vividly, you know, asking God, you know, what he wanted. I'm already this age. And we went on a trip with Governor Huckabee, now Ambassador Huckabee to Israel. And I remember having my hand. I took a picture of it on the Wailing Wall on the west wall and asking God, you know, about having children, and you've seen that picture. I know you have. And it's with my wedding ring on. And, that was the answer. The answer was yes. And so no, no regrets from that standpoint.

Dr. David Young 00:44:23 But most of their life so far, other than the first four months, have been at a battle. So that joy that we would normally have, as you know, parents and older parents at that, because Karen wasn't able to have children and, you know,

Multiple Speakers 00:44:43 And Karen is your second wife, you do have two older girls from your first marriage.

Dr. David Young 00:44:48 Fedora and Beatrice, from the first marriage. There are there are 21 and 24 now.

Multiple Speakers 00:44:54 So let me ask you, David, this has happened to a lot of doctors and nurse practitioners and to other people having gone through the justice system now knowing that you were an innocent man. what did you learn along the way?

Dr. David Young 00:45:18 Well, a lot of it is, you know, you start learning about discernment. Asking questions from this is kind of the legal stuff. That and professional stuff. Learned to ask more questions, have more discernment. If there's any question, have more. Get more questions. Ask for professional help if you need it. And then that's that part of it.

Dr. David Young 00:45:44 The other part is, you know, going through the process, truly being humbled, you know, going through loss of identity. Losing your license.

Lara Logan 00:45:58 Shamed.

Dr. David Young 00:45:59 Oh, you go through shame and guilt. All those things you go through. But then you get on the other side of that. And then you, you know. And you know God. You know that God doesn't. And that's part of my testimony that God doesn't make a mistake. And so I go, you know, I went through all these things. You know, the the lives saved in the E.R., how I would look at the emergency room in my church because they're as close to God. You know, the Holy Spirit would always talk to me, in which I always give credit to not having a malpractice suit because the Holy Spirit was always with me. I'd get nudges there. All kind of things would happen that, God was always protecting me. I never, ever got cocky. You know, God would show me right then.

Dr. David Young 00:46:40 And then, having gone through the. And then you go through shame and guilt, and then you go through the thought of what? Hell also helps destroy you because you do a ton of soul searching. You go anger, pride, ego. You go through those things And then, you know, then you're humbled and you become, you know, you're then now in prison. And as you're here, you know, that humbling and that. But the shame and guilt go away because that doesn't come from God. And the thing is that ultimately, all of this has brought me closer to God. It's brought me closer to Jesus. It brought me closer to my faith, knowing that, you know, that's not an accident. So what is that about? So that, you know, and as Paul did and everybody that goes, fortunately, if you're able and God loves you enough, you get to suffer suffering, will create what God wants to create in you. And so that that is what is happening.

Dr. David Young 00:47:38 I always feel like I'm in the middle of a miracle, but. And Karen sent me that song by Terry Wells, middle of a miracle. But I feel like I'm in the middle of that miracle now. So what am I learning? I'm learning that God is not finished with me. You know, Moses was 80 by the time he went back to Egypt. Joseph had spent 15, 16 years in prison. Paul was in and out of prison his whole life. And what do you learn? You learn to be content where you are and what you know. And then I think of Paul also. He talked about the thorn in his side. And he's like, you know, he was asking God to relieve him. And he goes, my grace is sufficient enough. And so you learn to be content in that and you don't battle it. You learn to settle in where that is and where God wants you. And then you start and then you start growing again. And then in this case, because you've been brought down to a level of suffering and loss.

Dr. David Young 00:48:40 And humbled enough that you know you're truly seek and you shall find and you'll find God, you'll find Jesus. You just have to seek it. He's always there and the Holy Spirit is always there.

Multiple Speakers 00:48:54 And so you had a strong faith before?

Dr. David Young 00:48:56 Yeah, but it's not. It's so much stronger.

Multiple Speakers 00:49:01 Some people lose their faith on this kind of thing.

Dr. David Young 00:49:04 Well, they do. And the thing is, is, well, that's because, you know, God doesn't make mistakes. They can't. I mean, you're mad at God. Well, well, let's look at him as a father. You know, what would he do? Son, you messed up or you already got into a messed up situation. Well, I'm going to discipline you a little more. Or I love you enough to prune you. I love you enough to forge you into the the servant I really want you to be. And then I'm going to cut as I think you know. But, you know, I thought of a dangerous, the most dangerous prayer I've ever prayed.

Dr. David Young 00:49:36 And, you know, as a David, it's from Psalm 26. And it's. Test me, O Lord, and try me. Examine my heart and my mind, for your love as near as ever before me and I walk continually in your truth. Well, when you ask for God to test you, it's like you know you're always being tested, but rarely. And I remember when I was younger reading that Psalm and I go, oh, did I read that? Did I mean it? And then, you know, as I've been here I go, all right, Lord, and then test me. Let's see, what am I? So the thing is, is and then you look at it as the pruning and what kind of, you know, dangerous gentlemen, as Victor Marx says in his book, I know he's a friend of yours. So, but Victor Mark said, you know, as you become that dangerous gentleman for God and you become a servant for God, and you're testing me and he's like, oh, no, Lord, I'm still with you, and you're with me, and you're all you're doing is pruning me, forging me, making me a better me, making me a better servant so I can serve your kingdom.

Dr. David Young 00:50:49 You know what happens. You're one. You go. Did you really ask that? Well, Lord, if you were. If I'm going to be here and I'm. You know, you're being in this situation and you're going to test me, Lord. And you know, you're not going to break me because you don't want to break me. You want to bend me, forge me, put me through the fire and prune me, Lord. And so let me be that servant you want me to be. And I'll be a better husband. I'll be a better father. And be a better servant in the kingdom. And then, you know, you truly have a testimony for God. And so, you know, being blessed enough to be in a situation where you can be like Paul was and be content in your situation while you're in prison. And you know, and the answer is yes, you can be and you know, and and just as. Also in James and I look at, James one two, three four, consider it pure joy.

Dr. David Young 00:51:45 My brothers and sister, whenever you go through trials of any kind, because the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Let perseverance finishes work so that you can be mature and complete. And during this, that what God is doing is he wants you to be mature and complete and, you know, and and also, I thought this I said, what kind of suffering could I go through that you could that God could develop me without tragedy? It's my tragedy without dying and without unfortunately, he's going to do this without a tragedy of a life loss. And I did lose my mom while she was here, while I would have been in, but she was 91, and I'm at peace with that. But, you know, to go through this and for let to let God be able to complete me and finish me so that I can continue to serve him, that's what matters. And I believe, you know, I believe. And I believe that God will have me do it. In medicine.

Multiple Speakers 00:52:51 So you're not done with medicine.

Multiple Speakers 00:52:53 If you have anything to do with it.

Dr. David Young 00:52:54 If I have anything to do with it. And if. God, you know. I mean, you know, Luke was a doctor, so. Hey, I don't think God is finished with me as a physician. I'm a healer. That's what I do.

Multiple Speakers 00:53:03 You know it's true. You you are a healer. And all the years that I've known you, that is. That has definitely been a defining characteristic. And that was how we met, right in the E.R., actually, during Covid. Yeah.

Dr. David Young 00:53:17 So I was fortunate enough to meet Laura during Covid. I didn't know she lived in our town. I'm looking on my board at seeing Laura Logan. I go, that's a familiar name. Then I walk in the room and it's you. And I'm like, what are you doing here?

Multiple Speakers 00:53:32 And I remember, I mean, I was so sick. I'd already been to the E.R. once earlier in the week, and they wouldn't test me for Covid, which was ridiculous.

Multiple Speakers 00:53:41 But it was the hospital policy.

Dr. David Young 00:53:42 It was just weird policy.

Multiple Speakers 00:53:43 At the time. And then they put me through everything. I even had a lumbar puncture.

Dr. David Young 00:53:46 A lumbar.

Multiple Speakers 00:53:47 Puncture, everything under the sun. And so I was sent home sick with no help. And by the time it got to Friday, I went into a local doctor's office and they called 911. And to get her, get her immediately. And that's when you walked in. And I'll never forget what you said to me that day. The first time I met you, I remember you just you patted me on the knee and you said, don't worry, Miss Logan. You're going to be okay. You got the A-Team today.

Dr. David Young 00:54:12 I did. That's with me with a little more ego. But. Yes.

Multiple Speakers 00:54:16 But it was true. You actually, you did save my life during Covid and, at personal risk because the hospital wasn't. I wasn't in favor of treating.

Dr. David Young 00:54:30 Correct. So. So the thing is, is I was watching I was keeping up with the Covid and what was going on during the period.

Dr. David Young 00:54:37 And so it was the study out of France, and I was keeping up with Peter McCullough, who now has, the wellness.

Multiple Speakers 00:54:45 The wellness company?

Dr. David Young 00:54:46 Yeah, the wellness company. So the thing is, is, you know, and I was following what he was doing. And then so I was using the hydroxychloroquine plaque, which is used for, lupus and malaria, and those patients weren't getting sick. So the thing is, is that they frowned upon using the hydra. Chloroquine, which had been chloroquine. Yeah. Out for, you know, 50 years or so to treat malaria and ivermectin, which had also been out for almost 60 years and is pretty inert. It's a anti parasitic de wormer that but it was treating these. And so I was very proactive in how do we attack this virus. And I looked at different peptides like thymus and alpha one and and supplements that we could use to help fight one viruses of parasites. And what was working. And so what was working was hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin and a combination of supplements that I put you on.

Dr. David Young 00:55:46 And it worked.

Multiple Speakers 00:55:47 And it worked for so many patients.

Dr. David Young 00:55:49 And it worked for so many patients because Laura became a big advocate. And so I got more patients.

Multiple Speakers 00:55:56 But I just remember, you know, it's easy to forget what it was like in that time. I mean, doctors were being punished.

Dr. David Young 00:56:02 There were being punished. And so I was like, no, I'm going to do. I went out on a, you know, I was I was certain with what you know, of course, I was still believed in doing no harm. But the reason why they, they they the powers that be or the big pharma that I think and the for the a people to be able to control the population in a tyrannical sort of way is one is fear always. But we had things we could treat it with. And so for instance, hydroxychloroquine I can potentially with zither Max Z pack that y'all are used to hearing about in combination potentially prolonged a what you call a prolonged and a q in the Xi's are prolonged t q the process in an EKG.

Dr. David Young 00:56:59 So that could potentially stop a heart is what the argument was for not using harder drugs chloroquine. And so but it had been out so long. So the safety was out there and people were frowning on it. But it was a treatment and it did work and it worked for a lot of people. And so what we saw anecdotally, the people that had lupus weren't getting.

Multiple Speakers 00:57:26 Wound, having issues with their heart.

Dr. David Young 00:57:27 Covid, well, they weren't having Covid and they weren't having issues with their hearts. And so the thing is, is they really did want a treatment because I believe that, you know, I believe just like our friend Mickey Willis. It was a pandemic.

Multiple Speakers 00:57:40 So that's another filmmaker who did the movie. Pandemic? Yeah. Just for people who don't know. But. Okay, so, I, you know, I watched you at great personal risk to yourself save many people during Covid.

Dr. David Young 00:57:53 And that risk was that the,

Multiple Speakers 00:57:59 The medical establishment would stress the medical.

Dr. David Young 00:58:01 Correct.

Multiple Speakers 00:58:03 Really?

Dr. David Young 00:58:03 That's right.

Dr. David Young 00:58:04 And they.

Multiple Speakers 00:58:04 Weren't.

Lara Logan 00:58:04 They they were threatening doctors all the time.

Dr. David Young 00:58:06 Correct. Not to write.

Lara Logan 00:58:08 It. Yes.

Dr. David Young 00:58:09 Not right. And then some pharmacists that I was writing prescriptions for hydroxychloroquine wouldn't fill it. Yeah. Which a pharmacist is not supposed to be able to do.

Lara Logan 00:58:19 Okay, so that was not the only time, though, that you actually did save my life as my doctor. when you were in the E.R., you were not only going through charts, and reviewing that.

Multiple Speakers 00:58:33 You were.

Lara Logan 00:58:34 You were reviewing my charts.

Multiple Speakers 00:58:36 Yeah.

Lara Logan 00:58:36 And I had I had suffered for years, for many years from terrible, terrible pain from internal injuries following the attack on me in Egypt, when I was reporting for 60 minutes and I was surrounded by a mob and gang raped and sodomized and beaten and almost died, and I had I had lived with such pain for so many years that it would get to the point. Even late at night, at 60 minutes, I would crawl to the bathroom. And, one of the things that you did for me was that you sat there looking at those charts, studying them over years, and figured out that there was an abscess on my psoas muscle.

Dr. David Young 00:59:19 Yes. So the so what I found out was with Laura one day and I thought, well, you know, she, you know, because she's a high stress job, she has a lot of, you know, some GI issues. So you were thinking, well does it gastroenteritis, is it just, you know, ulcers or is it just gastritis like a bad reflux. And so. And I was with you one day, and I saw you bend over in pain. And I was like, well, that's not normal. I said, whatever that is. So I told you, I went back and looked at your seat and you had a what we call a sarcoma on your psoas muscle, which is a deep, large muscle that runs along the spine. Well, when, Miss Logan was raped and tortured in Egypt and stretched, I'm sure that she had caused that to bleed. Or anyway, she developed a pocket of fluid on that psoas muscle that's deep within the abdomen, along that runs kind of along the spine.

Dr. David Young 01:00:14 And we saw that serum and I said could that. So I went I took your chart and I took a I looked over with a radiologist and we determined that well let's take a look at that. Can we get to that with a needle and drain it? And I called one of my orthopedic buddies and said, take a look at this and said, what do you think? I said, let's tell him what happened.

Lara Logan 01:00:38 Well, it was gone. I mean, it was a simple procedure. It wasn't very difficult. It didn't take a lot of time. It didn't have to go under any kind of anesthetic, obviously with pain, you know, none of the area and all the other stuff. But, but when I walked out of there, my life was changed forever. I never had that pain again.

Dr. David Young 01:00:58 And you had had it for years.

Lara Logan 01:00:59 Years. I think it was ten years. Yeah, it was ten years.

Dr. David Young 01:01:02 And then I looked at it because. So the thing is, the reason why that could be potentially overlooked, because it can look like another thing.

Dr. David Young 01:01:09 But she was symptomatic.

Lara Logan 01:01:11 And also you look back over time and said it was grown, got larger. Yeah. So I, I raised this because, to me it's just such a travesty that you you're a brilliant doctor and, everyone in our town knows it. That's why the whole town of Fredericksburg rallied around you, or most of the town rallied around you, and so many people spoke up because you've saved so many people's lives. Even when you were going through your trial, when there was that woman turkey in the restaurant.

Multiple Speakers 01:01:42 Oh, yeah.

Dr. David Young 01:01:43 Well, there's a there's a child choking in a restaurant. I'm sitting, I'm eating, and I see this and all of a sudden I don't hear a breath and I can see this child, and she's about eight years old in my periphery. Or maybe he's a little younger, maybe six in my periphery. And I just I hear this and then I don't hear anything. And, you know, we're at a it's a. Steaks is, you know, meat.

Dr. David Young 01:02:09 And so I'm like, I know that sound. And I didn't hear anything. And so just I mean she she's running to her mom, I grab her, you know, started doing the pats on the back of the little house. I'm like, it's you know, she coughs it up and then boom, like that it's over. And I'm sitting at table eating and it just happens that fast.

Lara Logan 01:02:30 So, you know, it's just it's so interesting because I remember I remember at your trial that I spoke to one of the jurors afterwards to try to understand why the jury had made the decision that they made, why they found you guilty. And it was very interesting because she said she said unsolicited. She said to me there was no question that Doctor Yang was a brilliant doctor, and there was no question that he was a very good man. She said what he heard from so many people. And so that was very clear. and I said, so then what did you base your decision on? And she said, well, we just figured that after, you know, with all those charts, he must enough.

Lara Logan 01:03:18 At some point, he must have known. I said, you did, you know. At which point she said, no, I said, so just at some point he must have known. Was there any evidence that he knew? She said, well, we just, you know, we just figured and that was really eye opening for me because we talk about jury trials and a jury of your peers. Here's a man whose entire life has just been stripped away, who's going to be separated from his wife and children and everything he knows and everything he loves, and the basis on which to do that? No trial presented on the stand, no evidence presented on the stand that you knew about the conspiracy, let alone participated in the conspiracy. Nothing. Nothing from the judge. In fact, his instructions didn't even demand evidence of that which I was, you know, reminded of during this last trial with the juror that was the holdout, you know, and all the people that were attacking this juror for being a holdout.

Lara Logan 01:04:12 And all I could think of was, well, how have they been just one holdout in your trial?

Multiple Speakers 01:04:16 I know.

Multiple Speakers 01:04:17 You know.

Dr. David Young 01:04:17 I know, I mean, trust.

Multiple Speakers 01:04:18 Me.

Lara Logan 01:04:19 It would have made all the difference in the world. Why are they attacking a juror for for doing what he thinks is right and and for following what he thinks is true. You know, I didn't understand that at all. Because. Is that not the whole point?

Dr. David Young 01:04:32 And then what? Here's what I learned out of it. Well, he should have known. What should I have done? Because the reason why I say that is. And when should I have known it?

Multiple Speakers 01:04:46 Yeah.

Dr. David Young 01:04:48 And then whenever there was an email that there was potential fraud, and I called the company because, you know, you kind of had just pick up the phone. Hey, are we are we under investigation or. No, we're all good. And then, you know, even to the point where, you know, you go to a conference where I met some of the, you know.

Multiple Speakers 01:05:06 The people that were involved. Yeah.

Dr. David Young 01:05:08 And so.

Multiple Speakers 01:05:08 You lost the director.

Dr. David Young 01:05:09 And you're reassured that everything is okay. So you just don't, you know, you don't give it more thought because you really don't. I mean, you because you're doing your other work. Yeah.

Lara Logan 01:05:22 And so that's another interesting point because it's very I got a lot of insight into how prosecutors can, can manipulate evidence.

Multiple Speakers 01:05:31 Or absolutely.

Lara Logan 01:05:31 Create guilt because they are in that case. You know, there's one email in all those years is sent out by one doctor that says he thinks there may be something wrong. Your response is to pick up the phone, call these people. And because you're seeing them at this conference, meet with them in person and ask them directly. But the government says, look, there's no evidence, there's no emails. Other people responded to the to the email. He didn't even respond to the email. And so they used that instead.

Dr. David Young 01:05:58 And, you know, I'm looking at it. And in retrospect, Junk Email has my name with multiple other physicians name on there.

Dr. David Young 01:06:04 I don't even know these people. I go, why is my, you know, why is my name on there? And now, in retrospect and having time to think, I think that was the DOJ phishing. So who put that group of names together? Who put that email out?

Lara Logan 01:06:17 Do you know who your co-conspirators were supposed to be?

Multiple Speakers 01:06:22 No.

Lara Logan 01:06:23 To this day, No. You have no idea.

Multiple Speakers 01:06:26 Still don't know.

Lara Logan 01:06:27 Any of the people who pled guilty. Did you? How many of them did you know?

Multiple Speakers 01:06:30 No, no.

Dr. David Young 01:06:33 You don't know? I didn't know.

Lara Logan 01:06:36 It's just incredible that there are violent criminals out there for who have committed rape and murder.

Dr. David Young 01:06:43 Well, and you know. And you asked me what I learned also, as we go through this. And, I mean, I'm glad to see that, you know, Doctor Oz is doing what he's doing as far as. And he has a task force, and that's great. But, you know, the had that been implemented prior to now, you know.

Lara Logan 01:07:03 That you wouldn't be sitting.

Multiple Speakers 01:07:04 No.

Dr. David Young 01:07:06 I wouldn't be I wouldn't be sitting.

Multiple Speakers 01:07:07 Here.

Lara Logan 01:07:07 If, if Medicare had reached out to you and said, hey, there's a potential here for fraud or there's a, you know, there's red flags.

Dr. David Young 01:07:16 So you called me and says, David Young, you're no Doctor Young yet. And of course, I would have freaked out and said, what?

Lara Logan 01:07:23 And that CMS is the centers for Medicaid and for Medicare that services.

Dr. David Young 01:07:29 Which is really what Doctor Oz is in charge of all of that. It's not just, you.

Lara Logan 01:07:34 Know, if any of their fraud alerts had been triggered and they had sent you a notice saying, you know, there's potential fraud yet, what would you have done.

Dr. David Young 01:07:42 That would have stopped or, or help whatever the, you know, HHS or CMS needs or, you know, work with the government.

Lara Logan 01:07:50 HHS, you mean health and human.

Multiple Speakers 01:07:52 Health.

Dr. David Young 01:07:52 And human services? Yes. So so the thing is, is you, you know, all of a sudden you're, you know, without ever any discussion, you're under investigation.

Dr. David Young 01:08:01 Hey, Doctor Young, that you're we think you're doing something wrong. You know, these companies are doing you don't know. And you would think that there would at least be a heads up that you know, what you learn in cynically over a period of time, you realize, well, they're not really after just me either. After these guys are going to let Doctor Young commit fraud, we're going to let that doctor, Doctor Smith commit fraud. Doctor Jones committed fraud for how many times? So that we can get these guys that are started the process.

Lara Logan 01:08:29 But the incredible part is that, they they didn't make you out to be some, you know, some dots at one of hundreds that was hired. They made you out to be, like, the linchpin of the fraud scheme during your trial. You know, like, without trial, none of this could ever have happened, which is not true.

Multiple Speakers 01:08:48 And it's not true at all.

Lara Logan 01:08:49 They also completely infected the entire process, the entire trial, with this notion that you were required by law or by rules or regulations to see these patients, and that was not the law at the time at the state or that federal law.

Lara Logan 01:09:03 And it was not the regulations from CMS.

Multiple Speakers 01:09:06 And that's all that. And I think that's how.

Dr. David Young 01:09:08 They convinced the jury. I think so retrospectively. Oh, doctor. Well, he wasn't doing he didn't see a doctor, but it wasn't the requirement also. The thing is, when you're looking at reviewing charts, you're talking about. What we're talking about is we're not talking about erectile dysfunction medication or medications like, you know, for diabetes. We're talking about braces and genetic testing. So what I've also learned, wherever there is large monies put toward whatever it is, whether but if it's government money, that is your money that is in Medicare, Medicaid, you know, and in going through this process, fraudsters will find a way to get those. Yeah. So whenever I see a commercial, you know, these things about the heart of hearing patients, elderly patients seeing large words and you get your free telephone or you get your free back brace, are you are you qualified for this? And I think somewhere in there nowadays there's fraud.

Multiple Speakers 01:10:12 Yes.

Dr. David Young 01:10:12 There has.

Multiple Speakers 01:10:13 To be.

Lara Logan 01:10:13 And wouldn't you think that inspectors general, whose job it is to find and stop fraud, they would already have known that.

Multiple Speakers 01:10:20 Yes.

Dr. David Young 01:10:21 You know, for instance, I think even during this process, Doctor Who was you remember almost anybody. If you were up late at night, you saw doctor whose back braces was part of the deal?

Lara Logan 01:10:32 Aren't they still advertising?

Multiple Speakers 01:10:33 I think I think so.

Dr. David Young 01:10:34 I think they are. I mean, I don't, I don't, I don't I think so.

Lara Logan 01:10:37 So the other frustrating thing is knowing that you are sitting in this prison as a medical doctor and the the you could be using your skills to help.

Dr. David Young 01:10:51 Yes. I mean, the thing is, is it looks here's how I see it, because I know God doesn't make a mistake and that is it, you know? And so what he did is put me in a timeout to learn and to learn about myself and give me a different chance because. So my longevity in New York wasn't going to be forever.

Dr. David Young 01:11:09 And so, you know, my other passion is longevity medicine, hormone replacement medicine, age management. And so the thing is, is and that's where things are headed. And I went back and, you know, studied age management in 2010 and became a patient because I needed HRT, got got approved and certified in hormone replacement medicine in 2016. I got certified in peptides because I which is like these GLP one weight loss drugs is the peptide and all these different peptides that are coming and that, RFK has now approved, I think, 11 of them.

Multiple Speakers 01:11:52 RFK Jr.

Dr. David Young 01:11:53 Yes. With health and human history. Yeah, yeah. The health secretary. But these are going to make a difference in longevity and health. And they already are in the GOP ones. And so that is what I'm interested in because I'm also a patient.

Lara Logan 01:12:07 Well, how useful could you be in here? I mean.

Multiple Speakers 01:12:11 Well.

Dr. David Young 01:12:11 The thing is well, you're limited on what you can do. So I, you know, I give a lot of a lot of.

Multiple Speakers 01:12:18 Advice.

Dr. David Young 01:12:19 And try to help. And so the thing in helping what, you know. Different different ailments that people have. And I'm somebody always ask me a question and I'm happy to.

Lara Logan 01:12:28 What's the state of health care in here?

Dr. David Young 01:12:31 I would.

Multiple Speakers 01:12:31 Say.

Dr. David Young 01:12:33 Fair to poor. And it's because people aren't trained. You know, there's protocols that I think are antiquated. And so there's not a lot of proactive medicine. So the thing is, as you look at it, you're looking at a population of patients that are a lot of them are overweight, a lot of them are not proactive in their health care and either pre-diabetic or diabetic. And I would say that's close to 40% or more and they're not going to improve.

Lara Logan 01:13:08 It just seems that somebody with your with your skills, you think could be put instead of them atrophying or wasting away in here. They could be put to good use.

Dr. David Young 01:13:18 Me to good use. Well, I'd love you. I'd love to. But right now, I mean, the way the rules are, I'm not allowed to practice because, you know.

Dr. David Young 01:13:28 So there's currently there's. I'm sure there's a medical director and there's nurse practitioners that are here, but. Yes, if you could be, you know, I would, I would, you know, I think I'll, I would love to have that opportunity. And the reason why I'd love that because I love medicine. I like taking care of people.

Lara Logan 01:13:46 Well, that's something else that I know about you. That, you know, the whole court process is very frustrating because you're a person who everyone who showed up at your door, they at the E.R., they all equal to you. And you gave everybody a shot. Everybody. You gave everybody a chance. And and that's how you approach people. You're just not a cynical, skeptical. No, you're you're looking for the good in people all the time.

Dr. David Young 01:14:12 Yeah. I mean, well, you know, in my training and then I did two years of general surgery. And during that process, I was in little Rock when HBO during that with the Crips and the buds and banging it in the Rock and what you did is you were given.

Dr. David Young 01:14:26 You know, God gave me your skills and what you did is you didn't. You don't judge. You just treat what you can treat and do the best you can do you know, whatever that patient needs and you just do the best. You don't judge, you just treat it. And then if they needed some tough love and advice on the back end of that, you can do that. But I don't typically do that. I don't see that. I just I. So the thing is, when somebody comes with me with an ailment or all of a sudden anything part of that is washed away and there's someone that needs help.

Lara Logan 01:15:01 So. Well, David, I think.

Multiple Speakers 01:15:02 Does that make sense?

Lara Logan 01:15:03 It does.

Dr. David Young 01:15:03 And that's the way that's the way I see them when all of a sudden, oh, you need advice. And so it has no judgment to it. It's like, how can I help you?

Lara Logan 01:15:12 I don't know how you do it. How do you survive in here? Are you been in your work over a year now?

Dr. David Young 01:15:21 14 or 15 months? Almost.

Dr. David Young 01:15:23 So how do I do it? Well, I exercise all the time, which is great. You know, the thing is, is, you know, you find your peace and you find the peace with that. When I talk about Paul, I talk about being content or like, Alice Johnson Bloom where you are. So the thing is, is what I did not know. And, you know, Karen was writing, has been writing devotionals and has come up with my wife, has and has written a book, a 30 day devotional, and she's going to do a 365 devotional. As we were going through this, you know, she was heartbroken, I was heartbroken, but she started writing. And so one morning with me being completely almost catatonic and couldn't hardly pray, but still praying. she wrote something. I go, wow. And I think we shared with you with that with you pretty quick. But, you know, I read what she was writing and I was like, wow.

Dr. David Young 01:16:17 So where am I going with that? The thing is, how do you get through it? Karen writes devotionals every day. I'm able to read them on our email. The other thing is, you know, I pray daily and stay active in the chapel. And so now I'm leading prayer. And in the chapel we have a Bible study. So I do that on Monday through Thursday. And so I never saw myself doing that now. You know, I'm praying with other fellow prisoners and inmates that are, you know, believe in Jesus Christ and we pray are always praying for those guys that don't know Christ yet, which I call the lost boys that need to be found.

Lara Logan 01:16:56 Well, we are out of time. The prison was kind enough to allow this interview to happen. Very important to be able to still hear from people. for us not to erase people in a just Adjust the system is what we want.

Dr. David Young 01:17:11 Well, and I'm very I'm very grateful and very grateful to, you know, Virgil, Billy Marshall and the warden, Miss Delgado and the captain.

Dr. David Young 01:17:21 And, you know, these guys have been very generous to me. I mean, they have. And I very much you're humbled by, having that, being allowed to speak and to speak with you. And I'm very grateful and I'm grateful, you know, for you. And I'm grateful for Keith to come in to do that. And I'm very grateful for my warrior wife who never will stop fighting for me. And I know you won't either.

Lara Logan 01:17:48 She has a warrior wife, that's for sure.

Multiple Speakers 01:17:49 Absolutely. I watch Jerry Garcia.

Dr. David Young 01:17:52 I'm very blessed, and my kids are healthy. And then. So, you know, I pray and hope that I can get out of here. That be the, you know, the father and the the the Christ follower and had a testimony because I think I'm in the middle of a miracle. and that miracle. We'll see how that goes. But I think it's still yet to be determined. But I think I'm in the middle of it, and I will not lose hope.

Dr. David Young 01:18:18 And I don't lose faith. And I know God doesn't quit on us. He won't forsake us. He says in his book.

Lara Logan 01:18:24 He will not forsake us. That is true. And with any luck, all those people who for so many years have allowed for it to happen and unbelievable levels. hopefully they will be the ones that are held accountable.

Dr. David Young 01:18:36 Yeah. And, you know, the thing is, is that and I've told Karen this, I said, you know, I'd be happy to help, but, you know, also, you know, you look for, remedies or ways to help. And so that is that physicians would be able to take a, you know, continuing medical education courses that are required anyway that would address fraud so that none of us get caught up in that.

Lara Logan 01:19:00 Well, let's hope let's wait to see how it picks up. Is God's timing always right?

Dr. David Young 01:19:04 Oh, yeah. The waiting is good. to, you know, we're waiting on it, but we're waiting on God.

Dr. David Young 01:19:10 He's got to finish his whatever he's doing behind this stage because, you know, his. His ways are not our ways. His thoughts are not our thoughts. That's from Isaiah. And oh, before, please let me say this. I have something I do want to share. What you ask me, what helped me go kept going. And you were part of this. So that the day I was sentenced, my wife and you and others said, you know, we I have a pen that says Doctor David Young. It has Isaiah 3417 and 3417 has no weapon formed against you shall prevail, and you will refute every tongue that accuses you. This is the vindication of the servants of the Lord. And what about. Yes, this I I've got it. But, you know, no weapon formed against you so prospered. And so the thing is, is no weapon formed against you shall prevail. And so, as I saw that and then, I'm going to pull it up. I'll say it exactly correctly.

Dr. David Young 01:20:19 no weapon formed against you will prevail, and you will refute every tongue that accuses you. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord. And this is their vindication for me, declares the Lord. So that when I needed a Uber driver to get me home after I had been sentenced, I was told that I could not or could not.

Multiple Speakers 01:20:41 It was the day he was convicted.

Dr. David Young 01:20:42 It wasn't just the day I was convicted, the day I was sentenced because I had to get home.

Multiple Speakers 01:20:46 Remember, it.

Dr. David Young 01:20:47 Was the day I was.

Multiple Speakers 01:20:48 Convicted.

Lara Logan 01:20:49 I think it was the day you were convicted.

Dr. David Young 01:20:50 But I couldn't. That was after sentencing because, you know, and and so I had to get back to Fredericksburg. The first Uber driver couldn't take me. I didn't have a way home yet and so I had to be home. The Uber driver came and then they stopped to get gas. It was a Nigerian man, and he had this verse on his on his shirt. He had. Isaiah 5417 was on his t shirt.

Dr. David Young 01:21:26 I took a picture of it and sent it to my wife. I laughed and cried at the same time. And what if? How have I held on? Because I knew that God put that person there and he said, David, you're going to have to go to prison, but I'm never going to leave you. I'm going to be with you. And so I never doubt why I'm here because of that. When I saw that Isaiah 5417 on that man's shirt, I said, that's it. Okay, I gotta, I gotta go. But you're doing this to develop me. I'm okay. And we're going to get through this. And so how do I make it through? Every day I think of that. God put an angel right there.

Lara Logan 01:22:03 I remember when you called from the cotton and said that.

Multiple Speakers 01:22:07 Yeah.

Dr. David Young 01:22:07 And then Karen was doing her taxes. I just talked to her, and we can't find him. The man that took me know. So I'll just say he was probably an angel.

Lara Logan 01:22:20 Well, let's hope you have a lot of angels around you. David, thank you so much for talking to us. I know there are a lot of people inside the justice system who have gone through these trials. And of course, there are guilty people and they deserve to be here. But there are people who don't. And it is a terrible shame that we haven't yet figured out a better way of dealing with all of this. I, I wish you well. Of course I wish you Godspeed, and I, I, I pray for justice for you every day.

Multiple Speakers 01:22:50 Thank you.

Lara Logan 01:22:51 That's it for this week's episode of Going Rogue with Laura Logan. You know what to do. I'm sure there are many people out there in the audience who have family members, families similarly torn apart, lives destroyed. And I know that this will resonate with many people out there, the many sex families, victims of political persecution and targeting, parents who stood up to school boards who have been targeted by a weaponized DOJ.

Lara Logan 01:23:20 It's one thing we didn't even talk about is how every time you voted Trump coins, your accounts were closed.

Multiple Speakers 01:23:26 Oh, yeah.

Lara Logan 01:23:26 How you had to sign the link of your house after the 2020 election that said Trump won. I don't want to make this about politics because we want to reach as many people as possible. But there is there is there is a life size cutout for Donald Trump in your living room.

Dr. David Young 01:23:41 Yes. And so when I was at the Trump Doral at an age management meeting, when Chase cut us off, I bought.

Multiple Speakers 01:23:47 A.

Dr. David Young 01:23:47 Chase. Yeah, I was in the pro shop buying a hat.

Lara Logan 01:23:53 Which is a whole nother part of this story. So whether it was targeted prosecutions or political prosecutions or corrupt prosecutions or whatever it happens to be. There is so many people that are affected when the justice system loses its way. So, Thank you so much for watching. Please like, share and subscribe. Get this out to as many people as possible. we need fraud to be prosecuted, but we need all we, the guilty, prosecuted.

Lara Logan 01:24:25 And, And we need we need those agencies and those systems that are set up that's supposed to protect us as American taxpayers. We need those systems to work. We need those people to be held to account. Okay. Thank you for watching. Thank you for staying with us through the end. Thank you for supporting our work because we really do need you. And as always, thank you for being bold enough to go rogue with Laura.