Going Rogue with Lara Logan - Seth Gruber on the Demonic Nature of Abortion | Going Rogue with Lara Logan | Ep 99

Seth Gruber 00:00:00 It is legal to buy and sell babies in the land of the free, in the home of the brave, in the year 2026, the year of our Lord. It is legal to buy and sell babies. Now we fought a civil war to end the practice of buying and selling people. But now we brought it back in the name of progress. But you don't get a society that's willing to sell babies without the the metaphysical, spiritual and political soil being prepared for decades that already treated children like property because it was legal to murder them, and they were called pounds of flesh or blobs of tissue.

Lara Logan 00:00:43 Welcome to this week's episode of Going Rogue with Lara Logan. Well, this is one for me that is definitely led by God because I was I wanted to do something about abortion and what happened in Massachusetts when I saw all those women celebrating behind the governor of Massachusetts when she signed the bill to make abortion legal right up until birth. And I just had no idea how I was going to do that. And then God brought the white rose resistance into my path in a completely unrelated setting.

Lara Logan 00:01:17 And that's how I discovered our guest today, Seth Gruber, who is the CEO and founder of white Rose resistance. But more than that is someone who has spent his whole life dedicated to this issue, even though his whole life is in his 30s. I won't, I won't give you your exact age away, but in this short amount of time that you have had Seth, you have done a significant amount of work to include a book and a film that was specifically looking at the origins of of the abortion movement and the sacrifice of children, if I can say it that way. And, you know, tying all of these things together throughout history that bring us to where we are today. And I found that to be absolutely fascinating, because along the way, some of the things that you've exposed, the things that I discovered coming at it from a completely different angle. So I want to say, you know, thank you very, very much for making time for us. I know that you do a lot of events.

Lara Logan 00:02:24 You. I know that you were friends with Charlie Kirk, and he provided seed money for you to get to get going on your current path. Yeah. but I want I just, you know, I want to ask you. I understand that when Massachusetts, when the governor signed that bill, they, they they became the 10th state, I believe, behind, you know, places like Vermont and others that allow abortion right up until, until birth. and but I just, you know, and I know that we're dealing with boss, that, you know, we're dealing with Massachusetts, right? Which is the home of of Salem witch trials going all that way back. And so people might think it's conspiratorial. But when I showed a couple people that video, they said, well, of course these people are celebrating. You know, I mean, because look at the history there of the witches of Salem, right? These, these it shouldn't surprise anybody. But, I just wondered what your thoughts were when you saw that happen.

Seth Gruber 00:03:25 Yeah. So, bloodthirsty gods produce bloodthirsty people. Laura, the psalmist says those who worship idols are like them, and so are all who put their trust in them. have you noticed this? I'm sure your listeners have. How some of the most vociferous, loudest cheerleaders for child sacrifice, for abortion, for baby murder, for the kids. And have you noticed how, like, those people are always on the same team, like they kill the babies in the womb and like confuse the sexuality and gender preferences of minors like those people are always on the same team. And by the way, that's because in the Old Testament, the two twin idols that are constantly popping up, that God's people are having problems either participating and worshiping or they're tolerating is like Moloch and Baal or Astaroth. And so that would be baby sacrifice and like sexual perversion, like gender bending weird like sex stuff. Okay. those are like the two things that are the recurrent theme of demonic manifestations and worship in the Old Testament, and they have to do with the family babies, next generation, don't slaughter them.

Seth Gruber 00:04:33 And also like, get married and have sex only with your spouse. Don't do all this weird sexual perversion stuff. Like people who worshiped Ashraf, who talked about the Asherah poles in the Old Testament, they would like to have orgies and like, there was like the sexual abuse of children involved with all this kind of weird stuff in there. Like, like the priests who worship Astaroth would sometimes surgically castrate themselves to appear in the more androgynous form of their goddess. And, you know, you're looking at this and you're like, there really is nothing new under the sun. Like, Christians love to say that there's nothing new under the sun. But how many of us as Christians can be like. And here's what I mean by that. I mean that in the year 369 A.D., Athanasius, a pastor in Alexandria who helped draft the Nicene Creed, took his church outside of the sanctuary, outside of the walls of Alexandria, to the to the local abortion mill of the era, infanticide walls where you leave babies to die.

Seth Gruber 00:05:24 And he ripped it down with his bare hands and in front of his congregation with bloodied, bruised hands from going full Gideon, full Josiah. That's for your Christian listeners who read the Old Testament, literally tore down the high places. And in front of his congregation, they watched their senior pastor who's been preaching about the incarnation of the God-Man, the logos, the logic of the universe, who became a baby in the womb. He wrote a book about it at 15 years old. Athanasius did, and now he's standing in front of his congregation in his elder years ripping down abortion bills. And he says this blood for their blood. And then Emperors Valentinian and Theodosius, who heard about this bold act of a pastor ripping down the infanticide. Fourth trimester abortion walls passed edicts for the first time in human history, giving babies and infants legal protection and demanding that parents take care of and not harm their children. And six years later, Roman breaks the teachings of Christ, and the ethos of the sanctity of human life was etched into the very ethos of Western civilization.

Seth Gruber 00:06:18 Why? Because of the church. And so what we saw in Massachusetts, Laura, is not rare. It shouldn't surprise us. It should horrify us, don't get me wrong, but it should not surprise us. Sacrificing babies, murdering children. How about this? The belief that we have the right to orgasms without responsibility is as old as apples growing in a garden. Like you could say that the the willful sacrificing of one's own progeny is actually the defining vice of human history. There is nothing new about that. We should not be like, oh my gosh, can you believe they just did that? We should be like, yep, that's right. When societies forget God, babies are murdered. It's that common. This. And so the church has always found itself in conflict. Laura. Coming up against idols, bloodthirsty gods, small g that insist upon the sexual confusion, mutilation of children, or the murder of babies. Like we should just expect that to. That's that's that's the paganism package, okay? And you can't understand things like Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger, abortion, Planned Parenthood, the way the largest abortion provider in the world, Laura.

Seth Gruber 00:07:37 Also the largest provider. What's this? What's this? Hold on, hold on. For the pornographic, comprehensive sexuality education in America's public schools, something they boast about on their own website. And they're also what else is Planned Parenthood? Oh, that's right, the largest provider of cross-sex hormones and puberty blockers for gender confused Americans. Did you know that, Laura, one organization is simultaneously the largest abortion provider in the world, the largest provider of the filth in the schools that brought angry moms and dads to school board meetings for the last six years, and the largest provider of of chemical castrating drugs for gender confused young people, one organization can claim all three of those mantles. Now, I actually read the Bible and I'm like, hold on, baby. Sacrifice. So that's Moloch. and then, perversion. Gender bending weirdness. Like sex. Like weirdness. Oh, that's Astaroth, that like that. Nothing is new here. And in 1973, large. You know what we did in America? We came into agreement with a demonic trinity.

Seth Gruber 00:08:33 Now, I'm not I'm not like, I'm not a mystic in, like, the weird sense. I am a mystic in the sense that I'm a Christian. So I believe in spiritual principalities and powers in the heavenly places, and that spiritual warfare actually does manifest in the cultural and political realm that these issues are fundamentally biblical. They're fundamentally theological. We can't really even understand those witches signing abortion through point of birth into the Massachusetts state constitution, unless we understand the war that's been raging since the garden, the war that's been raging over children and the family is the foundation of civilization. And what God has said about the sanctity of human life. Like we we can't understand this whole Massachusetts thing you're asking me about without understanding this, this warring of ideologies that's fundamentally theological, fundamentally spiritual. And in 1973, it wasn't just Roe versus Wade, which codified abortion through point of birth into the Supreme Court, into the I mean, this is like now a constitutional right. Quote, unquote, to kill your baby through point of birth in all 50 states.

Seth Gruber 00:09:37 Now, obviously, Roe got overturn. More babies are being killed now. But we can talk about that later. But you know what else happened in 73 when we passed the Endangered Species Act. So the same year that we declared open season on little babies, we gave greater legal protection to sea turtles and porpoises. Same year. Which, by the way, fulfills Chesterton's prophetic warning that wherever there is animal worship, there will be human sacrifice. And lastly, in 73, the United States Supreme Court removed their obscenity laws, thereby allowing the widespread and legal distribution of pornography. So you've got baby sacrifice codified. You've got like animals treated with more dignity than humans. Which is weird, because bail is like this half animal looking like a bloodthirsty god. And then you've got sexual perversion. Obscenity. Now who cares? That's not obscenity. Here, here's some free porn. And that became legal to ship around the country. That all happened in 73. And so our newest film is called The Last Stand because we're saying it's really a last stand moment.

Seth Gruber 00:10:45 There was an Oxford anthropologist and ethnologist named J.T. Unwin who wrote a tome, A study in 1934 called Sex and Culture. And he looked at 86 civilizations over 5000 years and asked the question, what caused the civilizations to rise and thrive and what causes civilizations to decline and fall? You know, go the way of Joe Biden or the dodo bird. And his findings were historically ruthless and shockingly consistent, and not a single liberal leftist academic has been able to discount his research. In fact, it's been buried, and most people don't know about it, despite the fact that he had all the intellectual bonafides and academic rigor. But it doesn't matter. He reached conclusions that the liberal establishment doesn't want you to find. So just like Margaret Sanger's real history and legacy, he also gets buried. And here's what he found. Again, this was 90. So let's see what did I say 1934? So 92 years ago? he said once the civilization codified total sexual freedom. Here's his phrase not my total sexual freedom codified in law.

Seth Gruber 00:11:46 if they didn't do anything to change that legislative mistake to right the ship, then within 90 to 100 years, that civilization was done and they were taken over by another civilization that had greater social energy, that had stronger sexual mores. He also said once a civilization coupled pre-nuptial chastity with absolute monogamy, so don't have sex before you get married. And when you do get married, only have sex with your spouse and actually have children. Societies that protected that legally produced the most culturally energetic, socially productive civilizations in all of human history. So when civilizations go full sexual liberation, sexual freedom, and the sacrifice of babies, they're actually sowing the seeds of their own destruction. which is interesting now with Islam. Starting to take over the West and change the political infrastructure of entire countries. Maybe that's the canary in the coal mine of civilization. Or replacement. My point is, we can't deal with the question you've just asked in bits and pieces. Oh, these witches in Massachusetts wanting to kill babies for point of birth.

Seth Gruber 00:12:43 Man, that's crazy, Like we. Abortion comes pre-packaged with all manner of paganism. You can't take your abortion box off the shelf and, like, open it up and be like, okay, so how did that happen? Roe versus Wade, 1973 Supreme Court. Let's talk about that. Then put your abortion box back on the shelf and then take out your sexual perversion box and talk about Alfred Kinsey and Wilhelm Reich and Shulamith Firestone and Betty Friedan, and then put it back and then take off your other your, I don't know, your John Money trans box and be like, okay, so the Reimer twins and the box circumcision and the and the twins who both killed themselves is the first experiment for trans and and then put that back on the shelf and then take out your critical race theory. But like, it doesn't work that way. The revolutionaries walk in lockstep on all of these issues. They're they're they're sacraments of paganism. They're sacraments of secularism. and we as Christians, as conservatives, we have to understand how these ideologies are kind of one war and the underlying premises that animate them if we're going to be successful in planting new seeds to grow new trees, the shade of which our we won't sit under, but hopefully our grandchildren will.

Seth Gruber 00:13:47 So. So anyways, that's like the introduction to your your amazing show. Laura. And I'm going to get off my soapbox.

Lara Logan 00:13:52 Don't let the IRS rob you. These days, you don't even have to ask where your money is going, because every time you turn around, there is yet another big story about fraud. Sometimes it's waste, sometimes it's improper payments. Much of the time it's just plain fraud. And when you consider how hard you work for every dollar that you earn, it just isn't right. In 2025, the Government Accountability Office reported $186 billion in improper federal payments. And if you go back to 2003, that number jumps to roughly $3 trillion. And on top of that, the Gao also estimates that the federal government loses between 233 and $521 billion every year to fraud alone. So that is hundreds of billions of your tax dollars disappearing every single year. While you're expected to tighten your belt, keep on paying and never ask questions. And then the iris comes after you for your hard earned money.

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Lara Logan 00:16:11 Because paganism today is very much alive and well in ways that people don't realize. Like you here in Iceland. Right? They worship the environment in spirituality and this whole concept that you can have spirituality without having God, right? That I believe there's something greater than us out there. I just don't believe that it's God or Christianity. This is what you hear from people all the time, and this permeates our culture and our media and, you know, and everything, right? It's all around us. We're drowning in it. And, and so and in fact, when I looked into the United Nations, I discovered that the first thing the U.N. did was establish the temple of Understanding, which is.

Seth Gruber 00:16:49 Oh, you've studied this. Oh, yeah.

Lara Logan 00:16:51 Which is, you know, and which is based on this, what they call a kind of cellular religion where every living organism, every cell is equal. So if you're a human cell or animal or plant, you're all equal because you're human. I mean, because you're all cells.

Lara Logan 00:17:06 And therefore this this actually is expressed by Antifa and Mott and the Marxist, the right, the anarchists and the Marxists, because this is why they say it's evil to own land, right? Because you're now enslaving the land, because all cells are all living organisms are equal. So this is the foundation of these globalist societies. But what was interesting to me was to see it go from the United Nations, from these global institutions all the way to the street where Antifa is saying that work is bad, you know? And ownership of land, ownership of animals. And of course, then when you go back to Genesis and you read Genesis, I mean, what does it say? Right in the beginning it says very clearly that God created the earth. He created the animals. He created these resources that planted itself right to serve man and gave man dominion over all of these things. So when you connect those dots, you realize that what you're dealing with is an attack on God. And of course, the whole thing of the family, you know, separating kids from their parents, you know, giving more power to school boards, giving more power to the state.

Lara Logan 00:18:12 All of that is another. If you go back to Genesis, that's exactly where God says that family is central, right? And when you go back to the founding of this country, faith, family and freedom, you, you, that's when you, you start to understand this covenant that this land of America has made with God. I think this is something that, you know, I knew Charlie in the early days, and of course, he he came to to carry this very profoundly and to share it. And I feel like I've, I've traveled a little bit of the same journey is truly understanding that what makes America unique is this covenant with God. And so then when you look at this, these ten states that say it's okay to kill babies right up until birth. And, and I understand that the counterargument that they make, which I have read, the press releases and a lot of the doctrine. Right. The counterargument is that it's ridiculous that you should not a doctor and a patient should not be able to make life saving, you know, decisions for the mother in the third trimester when babies are not viable and so on and so on.

Seth Gruber 00:19:14 Yeah. That's right. They've been lying about.

Lara Logan 00:19:16 That's the counterargument. And to that point, I have another guest coming on in a few weeks who's a doctor who is involved in surgeries in the womb where they can they can do open heart surgery. They can take a baby.

Seth Gruber 00:19:27 That's oh, doctor Bill Lyle.

Lara Logan 00:19:29 Yes, exactly. Yeah. Doctor Lyle is coming on to talk to address that issue. And you're not a doctor, so I'm not trying to address that with you. But I'm just saying, when you when you look at all of this, in that light, it you start to see what I learned from someone many years ago. He said to me, Laurie, you're looking at this all wrong. When I was asking about why children are sacrificed and why children are raped, and why children are sold and so on. He said, you're not looking at this the way they do. They look at everything through the lens of God. Everything for them is about how much pain and suffering they can inflict on God, because they know they can never win.

Seth Gruber 00:20:10 Yeah. So, Laura, there's so much there we could do two hours. Just like discovering the beauties and profundity of what you just said for the last few minutes. But it's interesting that you bring up the temple of understanding, you know. You know who? One of the, one of the supporters of the temple understanding, that the United Nations, handles Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, is one of the supporters of the Temple of Understanding. You know who else was Lester Kirkendall was a financial contributor to the Temple of Understanding. Lester Kirkendall, was one of the founders of CBS. The Sexuality Information Education Council of the United States. Sequence was launched in 1960 1964 by Planned Parenthood's medical director Mary Calderon who left Sanger's organization and launched what became the pioneer organization in the pornographic filth called Comprehensive Sex Ed in America's public schools. That includes gender theory. It puts a wedge between parents and children. It has critical race theory. It teaches minors how to circumvent the law and get a judicial bypass to get an abortion without parental consent in various states.

Seth Gruber 00:21:21 And this was the filth that brought so many moms and dads to school board meetings, remember, over the last six years. So six was launched at the Kinsey Institute at Indiana University. and it was launched by medical director including Lester Kirkendall, who actually later became, a board member for the Oregon State Planned Parenthood chapter. Kirkendall and Sanger were part of the American Humanist Association and signed the Humanist Manifesto number two. So you talk about humanism and paganism, right? And all these things. Like, all these people are all in bed together, right? Lester Kirkendall co-authored a book with identified communists like Isidor Rubin. It was called sex and the Adolescent Years. No joke. Are you starting to see how the baby killing people are also sexual perverts? Kirkendall, served on the staff of the magazine called sexology. and then if you want to take it to a demonic level. By the way, Laura, the the temple of understanding this like future is building in Washington, D.C.. they, the people who helped assist in the operation of running the Temple of Understanding was the United Lodge of Theosophists in New York, which is funded by the Lucis Trust and the Lucis Trust maintained the UN's meditation room with these like six rays.

Seth Gruber 00:22:42 Right. Like respectively housing the various religions. but the before Lucis Trust changed its name to that. It used to be called the Lucifer Press. that published. That published. Lucifer magazine. Laura. No joke. Wow. That Lucifer magazine was the official voice of the Theosophical Society. The Theosophists. That's another, like, cult thing we don't have time to get into. That was led by Annie Besant in 1891, who then changed the Theosophy, the Theosophical Society to the name Lucifer magazine, and later changed it to the name of The Theosophist. So that's the financial infrastructure behind the Temple of Understanding in the United Lodge of Theosophists. supported by people like Margaret Sanger. Like the one of the ACLU advisors, Max Lerner and Lester Kirkendall, who was a sex pervert and helped launch the the the codification of Alfred Kinsey's research for children in our public schools. So this is just one of many examples of how like, we have to see these things not in bits and pieces, but in totals, like, you know, here's a here's a helpful way.

Seth Gruber 00:23:49 objectification always leads to commodification. So, so if this baby is not a baby, it's a blob of tissue. It's not a person. It's a mother's. Right. This is my body. Which, by the way, quotes the words of our Savior instituting the Last Supper. This is my body. Isn't that interesting? And but it says you. I break you, baby, for me. But Christ says no. I break my body for you. Right. Like. Like abortion says this is my body. so I can do whatever I want. Christ says this is my body. I lay down my rights. Actually, I don't consider equality with God as something to be grasped, but I humble myself and I take on the nature of a servant, and I make myself obedient to death, even death upon a cross. Like, it's not a coincidence that the central rallying cry and phrase that the the feminists have been screaming at marches since the 70s is this is my body, to quote the words of our Savior as he's about to break his body.

Seth Gruber 00:24:39 And oh, that's right, the Savior who entered human history in a uterus and took on flesh as a fetus and identified with us from our most vulnerable stage, the prenatal stage. Like, none of that's a coincidence, right? That's why Peter Kraft said abortion is the demonic parody of the Eucharist, and that's why it uses the same holy, holy words this is my body, but with the opposite, blasphemous meaning.

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Seth Gruber 00:27:17 and so if you can objectify the baby and say it's a, it's a pound of flesh, it's a blob of tissue. It's not a person. Well, then you the entire abortion industry and mindset, Laura, is based on the objectification of human beings. well, well, what can you do with objects? You can sell them. That's what you can do with objects. You can sell them. and so Planned Parenthood does that with the babies that they mutilate, with the pieces that they chop up. They sell them to third party labs. I mean, this was the whole thing with David delighted in 2015, catching high ranking Planned Parenthood corporate officials over expensive salads, talking about how much money they can get for the cadaver. the babies, the head, the, you know, the the, the spleen, the genitals, the eyeballs of of slaughtered children. And they can sell them because this plant parent a corporate official, she really wants a Lamborghini. That's what she said.

Seth Gruber 00:28:03 And she can do that by by selling the bodies of babies that they already profited on the front end by murdering. So the entire thing is based off of objectification. But if abortion is health care, if killing babies is health care, well, then I guess selling them is just capitalism. Objectification always leads into commodification. I tell this to young men all the time from pulpits. Laura, I say, if you're looking at pornography and you're objectifying women for your own, navel gazing, sensate reprobate pleasures, you will eventually buy sex. You will. If you objectify women through porn, you'll eventually want to pay her for sex. This is something that all men who work with porn addicts can tell you. If a porn addict, a sex addict, remains in that addiction long enough, not only will he be purchasing images and purchasing videos, which is commodification online, he'll eventually start visiting places. Quote unquote, where he can pay for sexual pleasures. Objectification always leads to commodification. And so what are we doing in third party reproductive technologies right now? We're two gay dudes, three gay dudes, sodomites living together can buy a woman's eggs.

Seth Gruber 00:29:15 Laura, this is legal, by the way. No background checks are necessary now. My wife and I want to adopt Laura. We have to go through background checks. We have to go through home studies. We have to go through psychological studies. They have to interview our families and friends. And everything is done to protect the kid. But in the world of big fertility, the only check that has to clear is the check that you write to the bank, or the surrogate to pay the mother to stay out of the child's life. And so if you're a sodomite living together with another dude or three dudes like these viral videos on X right now, you don't have to have any background checks, right? All you have to do is buy a woman's gametes, conceive a baby through in vitro fertilization in a lab, pay a well, usually a black or brown woman. One of the things I want to tell your listeners today, Laura, is black and brown. Wombs are a lot cheaper than white wombs in the West.

Seth Gruber 00:29:56 I'm not injecting race into it. I'm not a critical race theorist. I don't think the whole world boils down into racial differences, but I'm saying that's just the reality. Black and brown wombs are much cheaper to rent than white wombs. And so then you've got two gay, usually affluent, wealthy dudes paying a minority woman who needs the cash to gestate their baby in her uterus. And what is that check for? Why do they pay the surrogate to stay out of the child's life? so at the moment of childbirth, the moment when that baby ought to meet the mother and the only human being that that baby has ever known and have the beginning of a beautiful relationship start. No. Instead, birth becomes the moment that that relationship between mother and child is severed forever. And the gay sodomites will pay that surrogate to stay out of her the child's life forever, and take that baby home to a home with two daddies and tell that child that that here's Daddy and Daddy, that viral video. That might be the end of big fertility a few months ago.

Seth Gruber 00:30:53 Remember Lara, where the baby saying mama and the to the gay guy goes, there is no mama. If you can watch that and not cry, there's something wrong with you.

Multiple Speakers 00:31:02 Who do you want, daddy or pa la mama? No, mama. Do you want? Dada or pop? Who do you want? Dada? Or pop? No. Do you want dead? Do you want pop? No way. Jose.

Multiple Speakers 00:31:33 I think I owe you.

Multiple Speakers 00:31:36 There is no mama. I'm so sorry. You have dead dad. You have two choices. No, mama.

Multiple Speakers 00:31:46 No no no no no.

Multiple Speakers 00:31:51 No! Mama. Dada or pop? Oh, no.

Seth Gruber 00:32:00 Now, now. Now, your listeners are like. I thought this was about pro-life and Margaret Sanger. Don't worry. We'll get into all the Nazi stuff. Laura and I are going to do all that. What's my point there to help people see that this is all connected? We've been we've been treating babies like property for over 50 years in America through legalized abortion.

Seth Gruber 00:32:20 Right. The Democrat Party that that once insisted that the black man was the property of the of the of the what? The black men were not persons. They were the property of the white man's land they lived on. Now say that babies are the property of the mothers whose bodies they live in. But where one is has no bearing on who one is. And when are we going to learn the stinking lesson that no human being is property? And so now we're just selling babies. If they make it out of the womb alive, now we can make babies without sex, because that's I mean, you know, I watch The office. It doesn't work. So the sodomites can just go buy babies. We're now selling children, like like, I mean, your listeners need to understand this. It is legal to buy and sell babies in the land of the free and the home of the brave. In the year 2026, the year of our Lord. It is legal to buy and sell babies. Now we fought a civil war to end the practice of buying and selling people.

Seth Gruber 00:33:15 But now we brought it back in the name of progress. But you don't get a society that's willing to sell babies without the the metaphysical, spiritual and political soil being prepared for decades that already treated children like property because it was legal to murder them, and they were called pounds of flesh or blobs of tissue. If abortion, if murdering babies is health care, then I guess selling them is just capitalism. And that's exactly how these people defend these practices. And historically, the only institution that's been able to protect children who are the first victims of paganism, they're the first victims of secular progressivism, has been the blood bought bride of Christ. It has been the local church. And that's why I make films, Lord. That's why I write books. That's why I speak around the country, because it's all about the church. If we can make the local church great again and help her be salt and light, saltiness and light again, then we can end these great evils once and for all.

Lara Logan 00:34:05 Of course, the obvious counter to that is you're advocating for the church when you know institutions like the Catholic Church and others, you know, abused children.

Seth Gruber 00:34:17 Well, so I'm not a Catholic, I'm a Protestant, and I believe in the in the visible and invisible church. but I love to link arms with anyone who wants to end abortion and protect babies. so there's a lot of abuse of children and babies and women in the Catholic Church. There's also a lot of abuse of women and children in, you know, just Christian Protestant denominations. Right. it's probably.

Lara Logan 00:34:42 To become probably to to just to the Catholics. Right. When you have institutions, you tend to have, abuse, unfortunately. I mean, we didn't used to believe that growing up, but now it just seems to be everywhere you find out, it's in the Boy Scouts, it's in the church. It's like, I know it's in the foster homes, right? It's in the family courts. Child protective services or trafficking kids. sometimes, you know? I mean, it just. Yeah, yeah, it feels like it that that it's everywhere and, you know. And one of the things I want to understand from you.

Lara Logan 00:35:12 You know, we sort of swept by it. But when you talk about surrogacy, there was just a case where the surrogate fathers, the gay couple, wanted to have an abortion because of something that was wrong with the baby, and the surrogate mother didn't want to have an abortion. And so this case was playing out over, you know, who has the say, right? Who has the say over this child.

Seth Gruber 00:35:36 So I did an episode on that.

Lara Logan 00:35:37 Yeah. So so who does have the say? What is that? That's a mess.

Seth Gruber 00:35:41 Isn't that.

Lara Logan 00:35:41 Wild? That's a mess.

Seth Gruber 00:35:42 Isn't that wild? So I thought it was. I thought it was her body. Laura. I thought it was her body. Her choice. I thought the whole premise of the leftist ideology was a radical, unmoored, bodily autonomy. Planned Parenthood makes the same argument for gender drug, by the way. They say they use bodily autonomy arguments. So that's been the whole thing about the left, right? is like radical individual.

Seth Gruber 00:36:03 Individualism. Radical. Self-actualization. Like, if it feels good, do it. Really? It's kind of like the mantra. This is my body. My body. I can do it. I can do with it whatever I want. And they apply that to a lot of things. Yeah. And but now when, when the world of sodomy and big fertility meets the world of abortion ideology, no one knows what to do with that. This is the problem with with with paganism unleashed. Right. With paganism rampant is that it leads to very strange conclusions. And and I'll talk about that. But the reason that that is, is that, like God actually created the world, like he actually created reality to be ordered. He created individuals to be able to make sense of their own liberty and freedom. He made the physical world, including our bodies, to point to metaphysical, moral truths, that we can actually ascertain clues about our identity from the way our bodies are made. The difference between the sexes and the way that the world operates.

Seth Gruber 00:36:52 But leftism has always been at war with the creation ordinances, with creation and with creation being ordered. Right. and so, So when paganism is just like the norm, it's just like embedded in our institutions. It leads to these really disordered, contradictory conclusions where the the leftists who can't have babies because they're gay, want to pay a woman to gestate the baby, but then there's something wrong with the baby. But they paid for a perfect baby because they went through a catalogue and they bought a woman's gametes. And she was probably an Olympic athlete. She was probably a very. By the way, there's this is not just is not just hearsay for people who think that I'm being facetious and mean about the left. There's like viral videos in the millions of views with two flamboyant gay dudes being like, we went through the catalog, we went through the catalog, and we really liked this mom because she was a collegiate NCAA Division one athlete. You know, they're literally designing their baby. They want really good quote unquote genes, which is also like a strange sort of Hilarion eugenics leftism thing.

Seth Gruber 00:37:53 And we are getting there. We're going to unpack that together. Laura, on your show, it's like it's like, well, we want, we want like we want the fit. Right. The fit. Not the unfit. We want the Uber mention. The superman, the superhuman. Not not the dimension. Which is what the Nazis, the phrase the Nazis use to describe those that they exterminated mentioned like subhuman. Which I'll tell you where they got that phrase from to in the second part of your program. And so they're going through these catalogs and they're literally they literally want like a beautiful, large breasted, flat ABS Division one NCAA athlete with blond hair and blue eyes. Okay. Like, literally, that's what these gay dudes are looking for. in the woman who's whose egg that they're going to buy to create their baby. Like, that's all that's going on here. But of course, all those people are pro-abortion, right? Like all the flamboyant gay dudes. Well, not all most.

Seth Gruber 00:38:42 There's actually some, like, gays that are actually pro-life. It's interesting, but but by and large, like the gay movement is not a right wing phenomenon. Okay? There's plenty of gays in the Republican Party. Believe me, I'm not. I'm not. I'm no hack, but the but the gay movement, the homosexuality movement as we know it is a left wing phenomenon. It was launched out of Greenwich Village, which is also where Margaret Sanger launched Planned Parenthood at Wild All Things in Greenwich Village, including the show friends. But anyways, I digress. and now they're like, you know, kill the baby. Kill the baby. Because we paid for a perfect baby. So you need to abort this baby because there's something wrong with it. It's like, wait, I thought it was her body, her choice and her body. Her choice. Or do the two gay, white, affluent dudes get to tell a poor Alaskan woman what to do with her body? I thought I thought that that's what the left was against.

Seth Gruber 00:39:28 Was affluent white males controlling women's bodies. But now they're fine with it because the rainbow religion has come into conflict with the Moloch religion, and they can't decide who to worship.

Lara Logan 00:39:40 Very interesting. And do you know how that case played out?

Seth Gruber 00:39:44 So Ken Paxton, the attorney general in Texas, basically said, like, hey, we're going to take care of you. So this this mom, the surrogate, she gave birth to the baby, but she. She's an Alaskan. And she flew to Texas and gave birth to the baby. And the Texas Republicans basically said, hey, we're going to help you out and take care of you. So these these I think there was a California couple who had paid, you know, for her to carry this baby. So this California couple can't tell you what to do. And this Alaskan mother who flew to to to Dallas, I think, or to to Houston, somewhere in Texas. She was like, she was like, I like I will incur the, the the costs and I will step up to take responsibility to raise this child since you guys want to murder it.

Seth Gruber 00:40:24 But anyways. But but the takeaway from that should be, should be like, maybe I should become a Christian because like, wait, how do you make sense of that? Like, like the rainbow gay movement with the two like two dudes and then like and then like, actually I heard some accounts that it wasn't two gay dudes. I don't know exactly because I heard I saw different headlines, one saying it was heterosexual couple, one saying it was a gay dude. But the point is, is that's not the first time that all my commentary still stands, because that's not the first time that there were two gay dudes who paid for a woman to gestate their baby from a different woman's egg that they bought, and then and then pressured her to abort the baby because there was something physically wrong with the baby like that, that that thing that just went viral that's happened before. That's not the first time that that's happened. Okay. but like, your take away from that should be like, that's wild.

Seth Gruber 00:41:08 They can't decide whether it's her body or not. Are we are we worshipping at the altar of Ishtar and Astaroth and gay perversion, or are we worshiping at the idols of Baal and Moloch that demand that demand babies to be murdered? Does she have the right to murder the baby? And she can do whatever she want. Or does she have to listen to the gay dudes who can't procreate, controlling her body because they paid for the kid? Like, objectification always leads to commodification. and so, yeah, I am espousing Christian nationalism, if that's what people want to call it. I don't really care what they want to call it, but I am saying that without the Christian faith that that that actually, abolished sexual slavery and infanticide throughout pagan civilizations, without the Christian faith, we everything goes to hell in a handbasket really fast. You know, there was an interesting book your listeners might like. It's by Tom Holland. It's called Dominion. The making of the Western Mind. I actually really want to meet Tom and have him on the show sometime.

Seth Gruber 00:42:04 I, I've heard he just became a Christian. I cannot verify that, though. so that's just something I heard you're listening to. We need to double check that. But he wrote a book a couple years ago, 3 or 4 years ago. Dominion. And he's an agnostic, Bret. and the whole book is basically him arguing if I can give my, like, my, my homeschool summary for you is basically saying, hey, you idiots, where do you think you got ideas like the sanctity of life, the equality of the sexes, the protection of women, the rule of law? Where did you think you got those ideas from that like civilizations or families or societies or wealthy people, that it's a good thing when they spend their influence and wealth, taking care of the poor, taking care of the orphan and the widow, the small, the innocent, the weak. Those who don't have a defender. Like his whole book is basically like. Where did you think you got those ideas from? Did you think you got that from, like, the Greek and Roman philosophers? Did you think you got that from Voltaire and Rousseau and Robespierre and the Marquis de Sade? Like, where did where did you think you got those ideas from? And then he starts at Calvary and he goes all the way through the Beatles and the woke movement and his argument, basically, the whole book is like, dude, that's Christianity.

Seth Gruber 00:43:16 You idiots. You Westerners have breathed in what he calls the trace particles of Christianity, the trace particles of Christianity. And you've you've infused it. You've infused the trace particles of Christianity so holy that it's become assumed the the values that the Christian faith produced are now the invisible backdrop of your subconscious. And you don't know that you're operating off of it. He has this interesting line in the book. He says it is it is the incomplete revolutions that are remembered. The fate of the, complete revolutions is to be hidden from view. I'll say that again. It's the incomplete revolutions that are remembered, right? Marx or Lenin. Right. Or, you know, any despot, right? It's the incomplete revolutions that are remembered. The fate of the complete ones is to be hidden from view. Interesting, because it's so saturated. The culture in your subconscious. Subconscious, right. That you don't know that you're operating off of a borrowed Christian moral imagination. So anyway, so. So he writes his book as an agnostic, a non-Christian British man saying, you idiots, without Christianity, you don't have any of these ideas.

Seth Gruber 00:44:37 So yes, I am espousing for for Christians, I think it's better for Christians to, to, to wield the reins of political power because we, we believe that we're going to stand before the judge of the universe one day and give an account to how we wielded political power while the humanists. What did Schaffer say? Humanism is the is the placing of man at the center of all things, and making him the measure of all things. So when you believe you're the measure of all things, and you're accountable to no one and nothing, you're not going to treat power or money or influence in any sort of stewardship model with any sort of belief that, like, I need to be careful with how I handle the gift of power and influence that I've been given, because I'm going to stand before the King one day. No, humanists don't think that it's way more dangerous to have secular, humanist wielding political power who believe they can do anything that they want and will never give an account. How Christian is the West? How Christian is America? LA.

Seth Gruber 00:45:27 You talked about America. Here's how Christian America was. You had to prove your membership at a Protestant church in many of the colonies, and the fledgling years of our republic in the early states, before your name could appear on the ballot to run for public office. I don't know if your listeners knew that, but like when they say America is not a Christian nation. All the founders were deists. Okay. That's retarded. That's revisionist history like I've never heard before. Imagine today, Laura, if, like, Massachusetts was like, you want to run for office? okay. So what Protestant denomination are you a part of? And by the way, we're going to need to talk to your senior pastor to make sure that you're regularly involved in the church and you attend on a regular basis, and that you're in good standing within the Christian community that you attend. because we're going to need to verify all that before we allow you to run for public office. Can you imagine if we did that today that that that is what the early colonies did.

Seth Gruber 00:46:18 That's what made America great in the first place.

Lara Logan 00:46:20 It's funny that you say that because at a school board meeting, I got into a fight with a lady of the of the 60s, you know, Woodstock generation, who told me that exact same thing. It was about, you know, books in the schools, and they called the police on me, actually, to have me removed from the meeting, but, But she.

Seth Gruber 00:46:37 Good for.

Lara Logan 00:46:37 You. Yeah. I mean, it was ridiculous, but but she had that argument with me because she was actually purchasing these highly sexualized books for her grandkids. You know, as she told me and she said, I said, well, who who you think protects that, right? Who gave you that? That right of freedom of speech and freedom of religion and all that? Those are Christian values. And she was like, no, the Founding Fathers were deists. They weren't Christians, but. And of course, Charlie Kirk always has a great interview where he addresses that one.

Seth Gruber 00:47:05 Of his most viral clips.

Lara Logan 00:47:06 One of the one of the best clips ever. I have it in.

Seth Gruber 00:47:11 Feminists can only exist in a Christian civilization. if there are no feminists in pagan civilizations, Laura, they don't exist. Okay, you don't want to know why? Because they're all being raped or eaten alive. Okay. Or they're the slaves of their husbands. Like. Like we think that, like, some of these evils right now are so perverted and out of control, right? You know what I'm talking about. These evils we're talking about on your show, Laura. That's nothing compared to the ancient Roman world in which our savior entered human history. You want to know what was going on in ancient Rome like? Because we get our Republican ideals from them, right In our column, buildings like Rome has probably connected the ancient world to the modern one more than any other. And so sometimes we we think that they were somehow immune of the kind of paganism that marked civilizations prior to Christ. You want to you want to know what was like normal when Christ came normal throughout the patristic age, the early church, you know, the first, second, third, fourth century, not only was abortion and infanticide legal, I mentioned a story earlier at the top of your program about that.

Seth Gruber 00:48:07 Not only was slavery legal, not only was like the abuse of women kind of a chauvinistic culture that really devalued, didn't treat women very well. but it was just legal to rape kids, like, I don't know. I don't know if people understand this. Like Caligula, the emperor who reigned during the events of the book of acts, the birth of the church. he's the lesser known Caesar everyone thinks of, of, what's his name? You know, fiddling while Rome burns. oh my gosh. Anyways, there's Diocletian, and then there's, Wow, I just had a brain fart anyways. The. Yeah. The one who blamed Christians for the burning of Rome. And he's like, you know, according to tradition, he's fiddling while Rome burns. but people don't know Caligula. He he established a brothel in the Imperial palace, staffed by children. he hosted orgies. He he debauched his own sisters. He forced his, members of the Roman Senate to have sex with one another and used their shame as leverage over them.

Seth Gruber 00:49:09 He, Yeah, his name was, was, Caligula. Epstein. Oh, sorry. No. Oh, sorry. Same thing. Have you noticed that? So encouraging sexual perversion and then using people's shame as their leverage over them to accrue political power. Like, this stuff is entirely.

Lara Logan 00:49:28 Honest in the world.

Seth Gruber 00:49:29 That's exactly right. And good. I'm glad you see that. So, like, the kind of paganism that the ancient world was, was absolutely insane. And the first thing that the church did once they were large enough to have an influence on the law. The first two things they did. They banned sexual slavery and they banned infanticide. So first, two things they did. They addressed sex cults, perversion that harmed women and children, and they started protecting little babies that it was legal to kill. and then Rome embraces the teachings of Christ in, in what was it like the three 80s? and the conversion of basically the entire ancient Roman world, all the known world at that time to Christianity and the slow eradication of these evils.

Seth Gruber 00:50:17 And it was the first time that babies were given legal protection and parents were demanded to take care of their children. That's some of the first cultural and political fruit of the early church. but it's funny when you bring up any of these histories, you know, what do they call you? They call you a Nazi. They call you a theocratic Christian nationalist, like the lady whatever at the school board. and the funny part about all of that is it's usually the complete opposite. Like, they think we're weird Christian mystics, weirdos who believe in a sky daddy and that, like, America should be Christian. It's like, yeah, and you believe that Caitlyn Jenner is stuck inside Bruce's body and that you have some weird gnostic pagan religion where you know how to liberate a female out of a male body. Like, what's weirder, Christianity or like trans gnosticism, that beliefs you can chop off genitals and re-emerge as a woman. You know what they're trying to do right now? They're trying to implant an artificial uterus into a male chromosome sexual pervert who wants to be a woman and experience childbirth.

Seth Gruber 00:51:13 Like, I don't know how much more perverted we can get in the Western in America right now. Laura. Before fire rains down from heaven. Okay. Under the Biden administration in 2023, people forgot this headline. But Biden's CDC 2023 released guidance for healthcare providers saying that health care providers needed to help. And now I'm going to use my language. Okay. They needed to help. Auto gyn Catholic gender confused sexual perverts. Males. Take a drug that would lactate a substance from their male nipple so that they could have the experience of breastfeeding, but they called it chest feeding. And this is not a joke. This happened. I have the screenshot from Biden's CDC and you go for you look at that LA and you go, hold on a second. That's right. The two things that have seemed seemingly always connected leftist, revolutionary sycophants and weirdos is, pedophilia and auto gyn Ophelia. And, you know, both of those things. Is that the sexual arousal associated with a male or female fantasizing themselves to be the other gender? Most trans leftists.

Seth Gruber 00:52:33 Yeah. most trans men, when I say trans men, I mean dudes who are confused. I don't mean that in the way that the left use it. When they say trans men, they mean women, right? I actually mean a male, a male, most males who are playing with gender identity and they're playing they're playing with they're talking to someone named Legion. Most men who do that, Laura. they're actually sexual perverts. They don't actually have gender dysphoria. Dysphoria, this very rare disorder where they feel like maybe they're a woman. That's not the case with most of these men. Most of them are sexual perverts. And we don't have time to go into the history. We can go back. We can do a whole nother program, if you'd like, on, like, the history of the transgender movement. It's not just John Money. It goes. It goes way freaking deeper than that. Laura, I'm a weirdo intellectual, ADHD homeschool kid. Okay, so if you want to talk to another program, we can go deeper.

Seth Gruber 00:53:23 But but all of those, all the trans women, it wasn't.

Lara Logan 00:53:26 Just I couldn't.

Seth Gruber 00:53:28 No, it wasn't just John Money with with Johns Hopkins University and the Gender Identity clinic that was established in 67. It's not just that with David Reimer and his twin brother Brian, and he was making them do sexual acts on one another. And then David had a botched circumcision, and his parents brought him to John Money, and he recommended removing the entire testes and surgically creating female genitalia and raising him as a young girl named Brenda. Like that. It's not. It's not just that it goes way deeper. And all of the intellectual sort of, soil that was being tilled in the lead up during the sexual revolutionary years and the lead up to Woodstock and following Roe versus Wade, almost all of those dudes who were insisting on quote unquote trans rights, almost all of them were sexual perverts. They didn't actually have gender dysphoria. They were sexually aroused. They were turned on by sort of fantasizing themselves to be women.

Seth Gruber 00:54:19 That was like that was like it was it was like a it was a kink. It wasn't like a body.

Lara Logan 00:54:24 I understand.

Seth Gruber 00:54:25 And so they constructed the language that they needed to make trans rights, the next gay rights to attach it to the leftist revolutionary way.

Lara Logan 00:54:35 There's a lot of gay people who don't want, you know, who don't share that ideology at all and have been lobbying.

Seth Gruber 00:54:42 Against.

Lara Logan 00:54:42 The victims of it because it's been exploited. But let me let me go back to something very, very basic.

Seth Gruber 00:54:48 You want to talk about Hitler now?

Lara Logan 00:54:50 Well, I want to talk about paganism first because we keep you keep referring. We both have referred to paganism. But just to explain to people, you know, we can't assume that everybody understands exactly what we mean by that. Like paganism, can you explain the role of child sacrifice and in paganism?

Seth Gruber 00:55:11 Yeah. So paganism, humanism, you know, you know, call it whatever you want. I treat them I think that there's many different, phrases for kind of the same thing.

Seth Gruber 00:55:22 So I'll refer to like paganism, humanism, neo malthusian ism, you know, eugenics, Hitler ism. Darwinism. Like, to me, these things are kind of all the same. Laura. It's all placing man at the center of all things and making him the measure of all things. It's the belief that there is no created. That creation is not ordered. There is no God. And therefore, like, we can kind of live however we want you. Here, let me let me give you let me give you the Vikings.

Lara Logan 00:55:47 What pagans. And they believe there were multiple gods.

Seth Gruber 00:55:51 Right? yeah. Yeah. So I yeah, we treat them as pagans. That's true. they they were deeply spiritual, because they worshiped sort of the pantheon of gods, if you will. Right. so, yeah, we use paganism different now than we used to, but but the way I talk about in the 21st century is there is no God. So we can live however we want. But of course, the belief that there are no spiritual, beings outside of ourselves is actually relatively new.

Seth Gruber 00:56:24 Right? Most of human history is civilizations and societies, deeply confident that there are spiritual realities. and so what we now call the pagan, you know, pagan civilizations. Yeah. You got the Canaanites, you have the Aztecs, you have the Chinese, you have, ancient Hindus and Arabs. throughout these civilizations, one of the core, civilizational sacraments or vices that represented all these civilizations was the sacrifice of children and humans, like human sacrifice, child sacrifice. This is, perhaps the most recurring sin since there was a thing called civilization, the willful sacrifice of human beings or your own children, and in certain circumstances, with the belief that you were going to receive a blessing in return. most of the child sacrifice that's been practiced throughout civilizations and human history, Laura has come along with the belief that these gods that these children were sacrificed to. We're going to honor that sacrifice by increasing family wealth, increasing land.

Lara Logan 00:57:39 Harvest.

Seth Gruber 00:57:40 Increasing power.

Lara Logan 00:57:41 Resources.

Seth Gruber 00:57:42 Increasing your harvest. That literally like that, that more rain would fall from the sky in the way to drought proof.

Seth Gruber 00:57:51 Your society was just the sacrifice of a little baby.

Lara Logan 00:57:54 With a child.

Seth Gruber 00:57:55 Yeah, exactly. So there's there's nothing like new about any of this. What's what's relatively new in our day and age is that, these reprobates do the same things identically, like, identically the same practices, but they just believe that they're doing it unto themselves. They believe that we're not actually like we're not like worshiping demons when we do this or sacrificing them to like, be like, the pantheon of gods, we do this for ourselves. And so this is interesting. There was this demon named Screwtape. I don't know if you've ever know, kind of run into him before. And Screwtape was once mentoring one of his junior demons, kind of an aspiring demon named Wormwood. and Screwtape tells Wormwood that one of the most effective takeaways for demonic warfare and Dominion, one of the ways that we'll know we're almost at the end, which is interesting, it's the phrase, this Screwtape uses, he says, one of the ways that we know that the battle is almost at the end is with the materialist magician, the materialist magician.

Seth Gruber 00:59:04 And what he means by that is that we now have all of the same functions as ancient pagans. But now the modern, the the materialist magician believes that there are no spiritual realms. There are no quote unquote small g gods. We're just electrified sludge that coincidentally arranged itself into consciousness. We are. We are a God unto ourselves. The Satanic Temple will joke about how they worship Satan. Ironically, this is one of the phrases on the Satanic Temple website, by the way. The Satanic Temple is Oprah is opening abortion mills around America right now so your listeners understand the Satanic Temple is opening abortion mills around the country, and they sue in red states like Texas. And they say your pro-life laws are compromising or religious liberty. And the Satanic Temple is one of.

Lara Logan 00:59:56 To carry out ritual abortions. It was before the supreme ritualistic sacrament.

Seth Gruber 01:00:00 Yeah. Okay. You remember? Yes. Yes. Yeah. So just to show how demonic that is. But the Satanic Temple will say this, Laura. They'll say we worship Satan.

Seth Gruber 01:00:06 Ironically, they'll say we don't actually believe that there's a Satan. We don't believe in any spiritual existences. We're just materialist man. Right. We're just we came from monkeys or a big bang or electrified sludge. Whatever. Like there is no spiritual realm. This is what they say. And so we worship Satan, ironically, because he was the first one to defy. And in defying, he won himself a kingdom, right? And so they sort of reinvent the Genesis narrative, where instead of Satan coming as the deceiver, he comes as a liberator, which, by the way, that's a really interesting history, too. I write about it in my book. The Last Stand is dedicated to Charlie. It's a book in film called The Last Stand. how all the Romantics like after Napoleon, like Lord Byron. And, you know Mary Wollstonecraft well, Mary Shelley, who married Percy Shelley and all these, like, they were the first slam poetry, like the death of art, like just ugly leftist artists.

Seth Gruber 01:00:53 They all, like, wrote poetry, Laura, about, like, the Genesis narratives. Really interesting. Like, Robert Godwin did this as well. Robert Godwin, was, Mary he, he had Mary Wollstonecraft, who was called the first feminist. her and Robert Godwin had a kid named Mary Mary as well, who wrote a book called Frankenstein, which is almost like this, like, you know, almost autobiographical, like dealing with what? feminism and paganism did to her own life, like the horror that it unleashed. And then she married a guy named Percy Shelley, this quote unquote poet who who actually cheated on his wife when he shacked up with Mary Shelley, the author of Frankenstein, and his other wife committed suicide. So you see all these, like, leftists, quote unquote, slam poetry artists? No, actually, I just forgot her name. But, but yes, that's funny. And so, But what? But what did all these people write about? They wrote about how actually, Adam and Eve were being deceived by God, and God was holding out on them.

Seth Gruber 01:01:53 And Satan came as the liberator, or the light which go back to the Lucis Trust and the temple of understanding. Right. And the six rays. And there's like all this weird demonic imagery where like, it's actually it's actually like paganism and the light that it gives us, it's going to liberate the West from its bondage to Christianity. There's a whole bunch of weird stuff there, like the Lucis Trust again, which is involved in the Temple of Understanding of the United Nations, the Lucifer magazine used to have on the cover. Satan coming as a bearer of light. No joke. But you go back to the romantics in the in the early 1800s and they all wrote poems about how we got it wrong, how it was actually God enslaving Adam and Eve. And so Satan became the one to bring freedom.

Lara Logan 01:02:34 He became that.

Seth Gruber 01:02:35 And you just go, yeah. And you go, well, that's exactly how the left operates today. They believe that we have to defy the creation ordinances that God gave us in Genesis.

Seth Gruber 01:02:44 And there's many of the creation ordinances, by the way. We don't have time to go through all that. But what are some of them? Well, you got the gender binary, male and female. Adam and Eve, not Adam and Eve. You've got marriage defined because Eve is taken from Adam's side, so she is his helpmate. The Hebrew is Ezer, which means like helper or warrior for a purpose. So I always tell women in churches, Laura, I'm like, if your husband has to die for you, you can make him a sandwich. Like, like it's like Chesterton said. he said feminism is the is a muddled idea that women are free when they serve their employers, but slaves when they help their husbands. Like being a helpmate is not a bad thing. Like like man is the head of the wife. Like Christ is the head of the church, but Christ is the head of the church, and God himself. He he said in Philippians, he did not consider equality with God as something to be grasped, but he humbled himself and took the nature of a servant.

Seth Gruber 01:03:32 So if men have to die for their wives like Christ loved the church, then you can be your husbands. Help me. Right. So you get marriage defined because she she comes from his side and they're there to be warriors for a purpose, meaning the kingdom of God. So you get marriage to fine. You get procreation defined because Adam and Steve can't procreate. And then you get parental rights to find. Because of course, when man and woman come together in a covenant marriage and they participate in an act so comprehensive and unitive that sometimes nine months later it requires a name. And so, just as we, my wife and I care about which baby we take home from the hospital. Laura, because that's our kid. Guess what? Children also care about which adults take them home. They also have a right to their parents, which is destroyed in the world of big fertility to to create the loop here again. So we get all these family ordinances defined by God in Genesis. And what are the battle fronts culturally and politically, that the left is the most obsessed over the ones that make them froth at the mouth? Is it not those? For is it not sanctity of life, marriage, procreation and parental rights? Those are the four main battlefields, and those were the battlefields that every leftist, including Margaret Sanger, Alfred Kinsey, Wilhelm Reich, Shulamith Firestone, Betty Friedan, Gloria Steinem go down the list.

Seth Gruber 01:04:44 AOC and Bernie Sanders. It's always those four that unite them, and they'll put aside their other peripheral political disagreements. Any time that the right to kill babies, the right to define marriage as a man and a woman, the right to keep children in the homes of their biological married mother and father, and the right of the state to not intervene in the in the parental bond with their children. Anytime those things get get protected, they they, they walk in lockstep to attack those. And the reason for this is very important, because they understand that in order to rewrite culture, one has to go back to the origins of culture and rewrite that. And what's the origin of culture? Its genesis chapter one. That's the origins of culture. That's why those creation ordinances are always laid siege upon by radical leftist, because that's where family is defined, and that's where the church looked back to in order to to answer the question, how should we then live.

Lara Logan 01:05:40 Well.

Seth Gruber 01:05:40 As sons and daughters of.

Lara Logan 01:05:41 The King? This is why, the Dutch East India Company paid for Charles Darwin to go across the world to create an alternative theory of creationism.

Lara Logan 01:05:53 This is why the Rothschilds were the ones that hired him to do it. And people went nuts when I said this on television about five, six, seven years ago for you, because they don't know the history. That's just the fact, you know, that those ships were the Dutch East India Company ships, right? And so on. But let me ask you, Seth, because.

Seth Gruber 01:06:11 I know who Darwin. You know who Darwin was inspired by. By the way.

Lara Logan 01:06:14 Laura who?

Seth Gruber 01:06:16 Thomas. Malthus. he was an English clergyman, around the time of the French Revolution. the fledgling years of the American Republic and 1790s. And he was the first overpopulation theorist. Right. So this idea that that's like, almost like it's almost like, treated as gospel. On the left today, the idea that there's too many people on planet Earth. Okay, this whole idea.

Lara Logan 01:06:39 Is treated as gospel by the left and the right. I mean, it's right even.

Seth Gruber 01:06:43 Yeah. Yes. Even retarded quote unquote conservatives.

Seth Gruber 01:06:46 And you know where that came from, Thomas Malthus. this his name is where we get the phrase neo Malthusian, Malthusian, Malthus, Thomas Malthus. Okay, we cover this in my first book in film, the 1916 project. By the way, anyone listening to to to going Rogue today can watch either of my films, the 1916 project on Daily Wire Plus, or host a screening at your church or school for free by going to the 1916 project, and then the film and book The Last Stand Christ or Chaos? The War for the West is dedicated to Charlie, and hundreds of churches and schools are hosting screenings all around the country right now, and you guys can go to the last stand up film, The Last Stand film, if you're a pastor or Christian educator. So anyways, but one of the things we cover in my first book is that, when Margaret Sanger fled New York City in 1914, in December of 1914, because she had broken the obscenity laws, she was shipping illicit materials and illegal recommendations of birth control to to neighborhoods in Greenwich Village in New York City.

Seth Gruber 01:07:44 And we used to have we still have obscenity laws on the books. They're just never enforced anymore. So rather than be arrested, Margaret Sanger ships her kids off to be raised by her friends in the New York labor movement socialists. She has them forge her passport and she flees to England, and when she gets to England, she becomes the first Kamala Harris, meaning she sleeps her way up the levers of political power. And she meets the neo Malthusian and she joins the neo malthusian league Thomas Malthus and his disciples now in the 20th century. Still saying there's too many people on planet Earth, so we're just going to have to, like, destroy marriage and kill babies in order to satiate Mother Gaia, mother Earth, that we need to take care of the trees, and we're killing the environment because we're having too many babies.

Lara Logan 01:08:22 And get rid of the cows because hearts are destroying.

Seth Gruber 01:08:25 The cow farts. Right. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. The cow farts. Farts.

Lara Logan 01:08:29 And then that's how ridiculous this is.

Lara Logan 01:08:30 And they say we're the crazy ones.

Seth Gruber 01:08:33 But Darwin was inspired by Malthus. Okay, that's the point, Laura. and then Darwin, his half cousin, wrote a book on eugenics, and became the modern father of the eugenics movement. and I always blank on his name. Darwin's half cousin is named Francis Galton. Francis Galton applies Darwin's observations in Origin of species to the human race before Darwin does. Galton does that even before Darwin writes that the Descent of Man and Dalton coins a term. You want to know what phrase. Francis Galton created? Yeah. Laura. Eugenics. So Francis Galton invented the word eugenics. Laura. Okay. He's Darwin's cousin, so. Wow. We went really fast, didn't we? From the premise, man, as a monkey and an animal. And there is no God or creator to the premise. What? Obliterate the weak? How quickly did we go from the premise? A survival of the fittest. Right to the strong must kill the weak in order to survive.

Seth Gruber 01:09:49 Which is eugenics that happened in the same family tree, y'all. From Darwin to Galton. Galton discipled and mentored. By the way, just so you guys understand what I'm trying to get you to hear. Discipleship is inevitable when Christians don't disciple the next generation to obey the Lord. The left does it in reverse. They disciple for wickedness. It's like discipleship and dominion is inevitable. And so then Galton's disciples, a guy, in England who was sort of the Alfred Kinsey of England. his name was Havelock Ellis. he he hosted orgies in his home. he forced his wife to watch him as he participated in these entanglements. she eventually lost her mind. So when when Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, gets gets to England. Laura. In 1914, 1915 to flee New York authorities. She starts sleeping with Havelock Ellis and he becomes her number one political and sexual mentor. So much so that, her when she gets back to New York, he coached her journey and strategized with her in between their sex parties on how to launch the first birth control clinic in America, which is the first thing she did in 1916 when she got back to New York City.

Seth Gruber 01:11:03 She opened the first illegal birth control clinic in 1916, the date that Planned Parenthood celebrates on their own website as the organization's birthday. 1960. Hence my book and film, the 1960 project. He coaches her journey back there, and she would refer to him for the rest of her life as basically her most important mentor in her life. He's all over the birth control reviews. It's Planned Parenthood magazine from the early years. His articles are all over the place. So anyways, look at this. How quickly did we go from man as an animal to that? Survival of the fittest Darwin to his cousin Galton the strong must kill the weak and the. And the founder of the eugenics movement. to sexual perversion and orgy hosting. Because I guess if we're animals, we should hump like it. So, like, I need you to listen to understand this is not hearsay. All of these people knew each other and mentored one another. Darwin mentored Galton. Galton mentored Havelock Ellis, Havelock Ellis mentored Margaret Sanger.

Seth Gruber 01:11:59 And then we went from sexual perversion to orgasms without responsibility. And if we do end up creating a baby, we'll just have to kill it. And the founding of the largest, best fund and one of the most profitable 501 C3 organizations in human history, the largest abortion provider in the world, the largest provider of cross-sex hormones and puberty blockers, and the largest provider of the pornographic comprehensive sexuality education in America's public schools, Planned Parenthood.

Lara Logan 01:12:21 Okay, so, Seth, I don't I never understood why when I looked up this history, just a cursory glance at it. It isn't hidden that Margaret Sanger was eugenicist. I just don't understand how we have reached a point where somehow Margaret Sanger is given a free pass by the modern left of today. It's like. I mean, and and, you know, I have friends in the pro-life movement. I have a big sign on my wall here from Auntie Angie's house, Angela Stanton King. You know, she's worked on this, all of us, for a lot of her life.

Lara Logan 01:12:56 And there's a lot of African American women and men who are very upset about the fact that all these abortion clinics are in their neighborhoods. They know that this was a, you know, at least part of this was a plan to reduce the population of black people in the United States. So how come Margaret Sanger gets a free pass? And can you take me through? You know, how does this relate to the Nazis?

Seth Gruber 01:13:26 Yeah, that's that's a that's a an amazing history there. Did you, did I, I want to make sure I heard you. Did you say Stanton.

Lara Logan 01:13:34 Angela Stanton King? Yeah. She is. Oh, okay. Yeah. Alvina King is her sort of godmother. Angela is an.

Seth Gruber 01:13:42 Amazing.

Lara Logan 01:13:43 Yeah. She has. She saved over 100 babies from being aborted. She's an amazing woman. But, you know.

Seth Gruber 01:13:49 Come.

Lara Logan 01:13:49 On in. Knowing her and a lot of the women around her, feel the same way, you know, they understand exactly what Margaret Sanger was about.

Lara Logan 01:13:58 It's not a mystery in their community.

Seth Gruber 01:14:02 Yeah, yeah. Alvida is a friend. And honestly, the people who stand outside of abortion mills day in and day out and say babies are the real American heroes. Laura. And we have resistance chapters around the country at my ministry, the white rose resistance. And we train Christians to save babies. And those people are the real heroes, and they should be put on a platform and honored. But yeah. So all of this stuff sort of starts connecting, doesn't it? So you can't understand Margaret Sanger if you just view her as a feminist. Well, you know what? Margaret Sanger didn't have an original idea. Laura Margaret Sanger had no original idea.

Lara Logan 01:14:38 You mean like AOC and Bernie Sanders?

Seth Gruber 01:14:41 Exactly. Yeah. You know, but here's what made Margaret Sanger original. What made her original is she was one of the first people to be able to put it all together. And what do I mean by that? I mean a toxic brew of a little feminism, a little neo malthusian ism.

Seth Gruber 01:14:56 A little eugenics, a little overpopulation ism a little. A little humanism. A little bit of the American Humanist Association. A little bit of the. The free love movement. A little bit of the, you know, the predecessors to the bra burning, Woodstock generation. A little bit of a little bit of orgies there. and.

Lara Logan 01:15:17 which is.

Seth Gruber 01:15:18 A little bit of racism, by the way, a little bit of racism, a little bit of sprinkle of the KKK on the top, little pepper there, and, and then kind of stir it all together. So. So that's what made Margaret Sanger original. She was one of the first revolutionaries on the left to sort of successfully unite the seemingly disparate movements and get them to work together to see the onslaught against the West, which is a proxy war attack against Christianity, obviously, as the central unifying theme of the revolutionary mindset, that's what made her original. It's not that she had any original ideas, that she was able to bring it together and create a witch's brew.

Seth Gruber 01:15:57 And the left is, worked together in a shockingly effective way ever since.

Lara Logan 01:16:05 Haven't they? Yes.

Seth Gruber 01:16:06 They've been incredibly effective at getting and then wielding political power and then using the political power that they got to change culture. And now, obviously, Anthony Breitbart was right. Politics is downstream of culture, but culture is also downstream of politics. It's a two way street, and anyone who tells you differently doesn't know their history. and so that's what made her original. But the history behind Flint, period. And Sanger is like, like jaw drop. Shocking. And I know this because I screened my film, the 1916 project, in over 1200 churches in America. And the number one response from audience feedback was, I've never heard any of this before. What? Yeah, that's the number one response we get. Okay. All the time. All the time including. Yeah. And so we opened the 1916 project again. We really want churches to host the screening of the Last Stand film dedicated to Charlie right now.

Seth Gruber 01:16:54 But this film that we released two years ago. We opened the film and booked Laura with, BLM in 2020 because this is hilarious. Because, you know, BLM, by the way, BLM co-founder, one of their co-founders, Alicia Garza, she co-founded an organization called supermajority with Cecile Richards, who was the president of Planned Parenthood in 2020. So you've got the largest lynching of black lives. Teaming up with Black Lives Matter to create a political organization to defeat, to defeat the mean, tweeting orange man, right? You can't make this stuff up, right? but but but why is that? It's because the unifying principle on the left, Laura becomes this. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. It's the same reason why New York City, the gayest city in America, obviously, elected an Islam jihadist who who openly follows a faith that preaches that the best way to treat homosexuals, sodomites, is to kick them off of five storey buildings. So who is more of a threat to, quote unquote, homosexual rights? The Christian who wants to overturn gay marriage or the Islamist jihadist who will kick.

Seth Gruber 01:18:02 Sodomites off of buildings so they can splatter on the sidewalk five storeys below. Who's more of a threat to homosexual rights? Like. But but the gay city in America voted for him. How do you make sense of that? How do you make sense of BLM teaming up with Planned Parenthood? The enemy of my enemy is my friend. In each case, who is the enemy? It's Christianity. Obviously, the enemy has always been the church, right? Ultimately, the enemy's got, of course, but the enemy has always been the church, because historically, the church has been the only bulwark against those kinds of evils, and the only one stepping up to defend women and children the next generation. So. Anyways, so, Sanger. So she she comes back and launches Planned Parenthood, but this, which is brew, is the history that has been buried. And so we opened the film telling the story about how in 2020, remember post George Floyd. Remember the the the the disciples of the 1619 project and Antifa are running around saying, you're a racist, you're a racist.

Seth Gruber 01:18:54 No, you're a racist. And it's like, if you were white, it's like, shut up. Post the black circle, right? Do you remember this or like any. Remember Aunt Jemima? We gotta ban that. Right? Because that's racist. Or like they went after any.

Lara Logan 01:19:04 Corporation and all of it. Yeah.

Seth Gruber 01:19:07 Yes. All of them. And and what was their talking points? I mean, I covered it in my podcast at the time. I'm sure you remember it was that if any institution or large company, transnational company, corporation, whatever, if there was anything that had its origin or roots in racism, like if there was any big successful endeavor today that that they could say, hey, you initially benefited off of racism then, then remember, then it became Burn it All Down like their whole thing was that like, if the seed was racist, then the branches of the tree will be racist. And you can't just trim racist branches.

Lara Logan 01:19:44 You have consciously racist.

Seth Gruber 01:19:46 So you have to.

Seth Gruber 01:19:47 That's right. You have to uproot the whole thing.

Lara Logan 01:19:49 Yeah. You can't work.

Seth Gruber 01:19:50 Yeah. So you don't.

Lara Logan 01:19:50 Remember the ground because you cannot fix a problem that you're not even.

Seth Gruber 01:19:54 Coming, which is an analogy for what they're doing to Western civilization, by the way. So we all remembered how how they were doing that. And here's where the story gets so funny. Laura, they went after Planned Parenthood. The left, not the right. The left went after Planned Parenthood in 2020 because they were going around saying, you're racist, you're racist, you're racist, you're racist. Your institution started in racism. And then then this is, by the way, this is nine months after the 1619 project from The New York Times, which said the origin story of America was not 1776. It was 1619 when the first black slaves came to American shores. And that's our America's birthday. And so we suck and we're irredeemably racist ever since. So that's the now. It's a Hulu docu series, and it's a book.

Seth Gruber 01:20:32 It's a series of essays. It became K through 12 curriculum and a lot of public schools, the 1619 project. And yes, I intentionally flipped it to say the 1960 project.

Lara Logan 01:20:39 For.

Seth Gruber 01:20:39 My book. So. So this is nine months after 1619 project just released by The New York Times and and the founder of it with the purple hair that the Pulitzer board members on the left were saying to remove her Pulitzer Prize because she's obviously a historical revisionist idiot. Anyways, so now they're running around saying everything from 1619. Everything is racist. Everything is racist. Like from Lego movie. And then they attacked Planned Parenthood and they go, your founder, Margaret Sanger, was a racist and a eugenicist, and I'm Laura. I was like, front row seats. Like I was like, give me the extra large popcorn with lots of butter and give me the extra large doctor pepper. I'm here for the show. I love it when the revolution starts to eat itself, because by the way, they always do.

Seth Gruber 01:21:21 The revolution always eats itself. And it's hilarious to watch and like. I recommend buying front row VIP seats the next time it happens to your listeners. It's highly entertaining. It's good theater. So I'm sitting here eating popcorn, right, with too much butter, and I'm watching the left attack plan. Parenthood. Say your founders are racist. And the director of Planned Parenthood of Greater New York, Karen Seltzer, which, by the way, could you come up with a more hilarious name for a liberal, unmarried white woman leading a leftist organization. Karen Seltzer, Karen and Seltzer. A light, alcoholic skinny margarita drink. Karen. Okay. I mean, like, come on. God has a sense of humor. Laura. Can you. And so, Karen seltzer. Yeah. Sorry. I'm trying. I didn't even have a Celcius today. Or a seltzer. And so plan turned into greater New York. She comes out, Karen Seltzer, and she goes, you're right. And here's what she said.

Seth Gruber 01:22:09 Quote, we're done making excuses for our founder and the damage that she did to communities of color. That's Planned Parenthood's New York director going. You're right. You're right. Sanger was a racist. She and she did damage to the communities of black people. Yeah. And then they they canceled the Margaret Sanger Award, which Hillary Clinton got and which they tried to give to Obama.

Lara Logan 01:22:31 Populations with her abortion ideology.

Multiple Speakers 01:22:35 Well, Margaret Sanger launched the Negro.

Seth Gruber 01:22:36 Project in 1939. and do you want to know the opening proposal of the Negro project, by the way? Laura.

Lara Logan 01:22:42 Yeah.

Seth Gruber 01:22:43 Okay, here's the opening proposal, I memorized it. I quote the mass of Negroes, particularly in the South, are still breeding carelessly and disastrously, with the result that the increase among Negroes even more than among whites is from that portion of the population, least intelligent and least fit and quote. So that's the opening proposal of Planned Parenthood Negro Project, launched in 1939, when Planned Parenthood became an institution in 1923 because because she was doing the birth control clinics.

Seth Gruber 01:23:13 Laura, before Planned Parenthood was a 501 C3, and it used to be called the American Birth Control League, the American Birth Control League. She changed the name from the American Birth Control League to Planned Parenthood in 1942, because by then these this guy named Hitler had given the phrase eugenics a slightly negative connotation, and everyone knew that Sanger was not just in bed with the eugenics movement. She was the eugenics movement on the East Coast of America. And so she rebranded from the American Birth Control League to Planned Parenthood in 1942. And if your listeners think that that's a coincidence in the timing of the brand change, I've got a bridge to sell them in Brooklyn and they can reach out to me. And so her founding board member was named Lothrop Stoddard. By the way, I'm going to connect everything with the whole subhuman, superhuman, the gaze, eugenics catalogs of babies, the strong, the fit, the weak. Where did they get the term subhuman from? Watch this. Listeners of of going rogue.

Seth Gruber 01:24:08 So her founding board member was Lothrop Stoddard. He found on the board of Planned Parenthood for years. Guess who Lothrop Stoddard was? He was the Exalted Cyclops of the Massachusetts KKK chapter. Now a lot of people go Massachusetts had a KKK, right? Because it's like, wait, isn't that too far north? Yes, Massachusetts had a KKK chapter. Lothrop Stoddard was called the Exalted Cyclops of the Massachusetts KKK. He was one of the intellectual drivers of the KKK movement, meaning his books were recommended and assigned reading in KKK circles. Laura. He wrote a book called The Rising Tide of Color Against White World Supremacy. Let me say that again for people who think I'm a weirdo. You can fact check me on all this. He wrote a book called The Rising Tide of Color Against White World Supremacy. He wrote another book called The Menace of the Under Man The Menace of the Under Man. Okay. and in 1939, he got an invitation to go over to the Third Reich. and he was given a journalistic interview tour.

Seth Gruber 01:25:12 He got to meet with Fritz Karl, Robert Ley, Heinrich Himmler and Lothrop Stoddard, wrote a book about his time in the Third Reich when he got back, in late 1939. Laura, I have a copy of the book. It's called Not Into the Darkness Nazi Germany Today, published in 1940. Lothrop Stoddard had a one on one, closed door private meeting with the F��hrer. In fact, to my research, the founding board member of Planned Parenthood, is the only American to have had a one on one, face to face, in person, closed door meeting with Adolf Hitler after he rose to power. The founding board member of Planned Parenthood. But his book The Menace of the Under Man, under Mann Laura, was translated by the Third Reich. So the Nazi government paid for the German translation of that book. It was being assigned in German public school classrooms to be read by young German boys and girls. and I have and I we haven't got new office space in Tennessee yet, so I don't have my, my office books with me, but I have a first edition of the German printed version of Margaret Sanger's founding board members book, The Menace of the Under Man.

Seth Gruber 01:26:30 They translated that in the 30s or the late 20s. I think it was the 30s before Lothrop Stoddard ever got invited to meet with Hitler. Guess? Guess what? German word is used for the word under man. The menace of the under Mann. The title of Sanger's.

Lara Logan 01:26:45 Board members book.

Seth Gruber 01:26:47 That's exactly right, Laura. And it's subhuman. Translated into English. Subhuman and used to describe those they exterminated. And the title of Heinrich Himmler's famous Nazi propaganda book, which I also have a first edition of. And it's got right on the front of the top of the magazine. Unter Mensch. I've talked to several historians more learned than me. Laura, I, I, I believe that the first time the Nazis start to use the word subhuman unter Mensch. Is after the German translated version of Margaret Sanger's Planned Parenthood's founding board members book. I think the Nazis got the term subhuman from Planned Parenthood.

Lara Logan 01:27:27 It's unbelievable.

Seth Gruber 01:27:29 So that's the founding board member of Planned Parenthood, and I didn't even get into, like, the American Eugenics Society that shared office space with Planned Parenthood when she founded in 1923, and Leon Whitney, the executive secretary of Madison Grant, the president and founder of the American Eugenics Society, who once put a black man in a cage with a monkey at the New York City Bronx Zoo, to quote, illustrate evolution.

Seth Gruber 01:27:49 And then Madison Grant wrote a book, in 1916. And then one time, his executive secretary, Leon Whitney, who was good friends with Margaret Sanger, got a letter in the mail from a German corporal recently out of prison and rising in the German political scene, thanking Leon Whitney's book called Selective Sterilization Selective Sterilization. We should be selective about who we sterilize and don't allow to have children. And this German corporal was thanking Leon Whitney, who had just had coffee with Margaret Sanger, trying to convince Margaret Sanger to merge Planned Parenthood magazine with the American Eugenics Society's magazine by telling her that really, our mission is exactly the same. And hey, we're sharing office space anyways. And then Leon Whitney ran over to Madison Grant and interrupted a committee meeting that he was having, and he said, Madison, our writings are influencing the Germans. And Madison Grant, the founder of the American Eugenics Society, smiled and chuckled and said, I know, and pulled out a letter he had just received from the same German corporal recently out of prison after his failed coup attempt in Munich, in Munich and rising in the German political scene.

Seth Gruber 01:28:43 Thanking Madison Grant for his book on eugenics and calling his book his Bible, the man who wrote those letters was named Adolf Hitler. So like anyways, it just goes on and on and on. Like there was another guy named Ernst Rudin who, ran Hitler's director. He was Hitler's director of genetic sterilization, and he was one of Margaret Sanger's guest writers for the For the Birth Control Review, the Planned Parenthood magazine in the from 1916 to like the the the 1930s or so and and actually was one of her advisors for Planned Parenthood, Hitler's director of genetic sterilization. Ernst Rudin, who later ran a collective of eugenics conferences that were hosted in Europe, in America that Margaret Sanger was helping host in New York City. I mean, like, so when they say, like the writer Nazis, it's it's the most hilarious thing ever. Like, the right does not have a Nazi problem. The left does. they always have. Hitler did not was not a far right person. He. That was not the problem with the Third Reich.

Seth Gruber 01:29:45 He was a far leftist. He was a vegan. he was a sexual pervert. he would have been drinking seltzers and driving Priuses. Okay. Like. Like Hitler was not a far right individual. The revisionism around that is hilarious. What is National Socialist mean? Yeah, Nazi. National Socialist really? Are the are the right big proponents of socialism? Like what? The people who say Hitler was a far right individual. I'm like, dude, like, cancel your Wall Street Journal in New York Times in Washington Post subscription. Absolutely. So anyways, there's so much more history there.

Lara Logan 01:30:21 That's the same thing that you were talking about that inversion, right? It's the same inversion creating this image of themselves as the Anti-Fascists, you know, and this being the right when it was really the left and there was nothing anti-fascist about them, they're absolutely fascist. They just had different groups. You know, Franco's fascist, right. Versus, you know, Hitler's fascists that were fighting for control, just like you have al Qaeda and ISIS.

Lara Logan 01:30:46 And, you know, Qatar has.

Seth Gruber 01:30:47 That's right. Well, the founders of the Frankfurt School, they left Frankfurt, Germany, because some of them were German Jews, and they feared Hitler. And they set up the Frankfurt School at Columbia University. And they became the fathers of the radical hippie movement and the radical Yippie movement. And they later became tenured professors at American universities. And then, of course, they changed. They were like, well, why did Marx fail? And they decided that that was the way white Frankfurt got together. They were like, well, why did why did Marxism fail? Why did communism fail? And they decided the answer was culture and nationalism. People loved the country too much. And then capitalism was lifting the workers of the world out of poverty. And so people rejected Marxism. So they said, we have to change the culture. And so they developed what's called the strategy of the robes or the long walk through the institutions I like all. That's a whole nother podcast just right there that we could do.

Seth Gruber 01:31:24 Yeah. But it's but your point is well taken.

Lara Logan 01:31:26 Right before the Second World.

Seth Gruber 01:31:28 The lefties.

Lara Logan 01:31:28 Formed upon.

Seth Gruber 01:31:29 The lefties are all fighting each other. Yeah, they're all bickering, but they're all lefties. But they're all. They can't get along like, you know, like Antonio Gramsci. Right. One of the fathers of cultural Marxism. One afoul of Mussolini. Mussolini put him in prison. He spent the rest of his life in prison. And Gramsci published his prison letters, just like the Marquis de Sade. He did way more damage while in prison than out of it, and his prison letters became the basis for sort of cultural Marxism, as acknowledged, by the way, by Carol Quigley, who wrote the book in the in 67 that was due to be published by Macmillan. tracing the history of what he called the Anglo-American establishment. And he traced the idea of cultural Marxism back to the ideas of Antonio Gramsci, whose letters were translated into English by a professor named Joseph Buttigieg. the the American expert on Gramsci and cultural Marxism, so that American leftist could read and study sort of the long walk through the institutions.

Seth Gruber 01:32:25 And Professor Joseph Buttigieg has a son named Mayor Pete Buttigieg. And so all this stuff connects. And the problem with the church has been our forgetfulness. We stopped paying attention. We stopped listening and learning. We stopped being like the scriptures called, the sons of Issachar. It said they were men who understood the times they lived in, so they knew what Israel ought to do. So with an understanding of the times you live in comes a responsibility and duty to act. How can we answer the question? How should we then live in this crazy culture, if we have no understanding of the times in which we live? And that's been the problem of the church, Schafer said. The ignorance of the church is more dangerous for a culture than the decadence of the world. perverts who want to sexualize kids, rape them or kill them in the womb. That's not new. Laura, what's relatively new in the 21st century is the flatulent, impotent, and forgetful church who has traded her prophetic calling for a bowl of porridge and access and invites to the nice parties and not offending their Democrat congregants who tithes.

Seth Gruber 01:33:30 They need to pay the mortgage on the church building. To disciple weak Christians.

Lara Logan 01:33:34 I think you're being kind, saith to the churches when you say that I honestly, I do, because I mean, it's it's very, very simple. You either follow God or you don't. That's it. And they don't follow God. So they've chosen to forget because they've chosen to no longer follow God. I you know, I know a priest who told me once that he was a secular humanist for his first. Well, he was a pastor, not a priest. But he said for his first 13 years as a pastor, he was a secular humanist. Okay, you don't get to wear the mantle of a man of God or woman of God. That's right. You know, and walk into a building, a church that is supposed to be the house of God and preach to people from the pulpit, supposedly to carry to be a vessel for the Word of God, but not follow God. You don't get to do that.

Lara Logan 01:34:31 So I just think, you know, I understand what you mean when you say the churches have forgotten. No, no, the churches are no longer following God. And you know what happens when you're not following God? That what do you have at the center of your life? If you have the center of your life as yourself or, you know, as something else, another entity? We know what that means. That's a form of blasphemy, right? And that's right. Yeah. And so.

Seth Gruber 01:34:55 That's good.

Lara Logan 01:34:55 Those those priests and those churches, they are leading people away from God. They're much more than forgetful. They're complicit. They're co-conspirators with those who are at war with God, and they're leading people into darkness. And they're making that choice willingly. And, you know, I've been reading some of the, just this week. I've been reading some of the stories of the Bible that are stories that are not in the Bible, right along with the Book of Enoch. The book, you know, a few, a few others.

Lara Logan 01:35:29 And one of the subjects was all about what do you do with people who have who have knowingly chosen not to follow God? What does God do with these people at the moment of their deaths? Right at the moment of choosing, at the moment where there is no there, there is now no, there's no shift in your position anymore. What happens at that moment? So it's very interesting to me because you could put, you know, I don't know, half the churches and half the priests and pastors of the world right into that spot. I mean, remember, they're not just not talking about these things in their to their congregations. Many of them are wearing the colors of the LGBTQ plus movement and openly advocating for child mutilation and child sacrifice, openly advocating for that. That's way more than forgetful, Right.

Seth Gruber 01:36:21 Yeah. They're not churches, obviously. Like the like the United Methodists, the Episcopalians, by and large. you know, these are not churches. These are apostate denominations who are not even preaching Christianity anymore.

Seth Gruber 01:36:35 and then you have other denominations that are quote unquote, preaching the gospel, like they're preaching Christ as the sufficient sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins and the necessity, the necessity of repentance. There are there are churches who preach the gospel. But then if you're like, hey, join us in our glorious campaign to end abortion in our communities and in our country, for the glory of Aslan and the abolishing of white witches. and they're like, whoa, we're not political. It's like, dude, we're talking about baby sacrifice. And you're telling me you're not political? No no no no no no no no, it's not that. You don't want to be political. You don't want to be a Christian, because the Christian church has, since its inception, been basically the sole institution that has eradicated child mutilation, gender bending perversion, baby murder through abortion like sexual slavery. Back to our conversation about Tom Holland, this agnostic Brit, you know, criticizing the West for not knowing where they got these ideas from.

Seth Gruber 01:37:35 It's been the church that has gotten rid of these things. If you don't want to fight for babies, if you don't want to fight for marriages and the family because children no longer have a right to a mother and a father anymore, for goodness sake, then it's not that you don't want to be political, you don't want to be Christian. And that's what we do at the white Rose resistance. Laura. So. So we're a Christian pro-life organization. You have to sign a statement of faith to work for me. Like that's very important to me. Like we're not going to have some, like, priceless conservatives coming into this organization and just, like, destroying the soil. And then we I have a podcast, I speak in churches, but we have these films and that's all top of funnel stuff to to break people's heart and boil their blood. Right? Be broken for what breaks the Lord's heart and be angry about what makes him angry. And then let's go do something about it. Let's reclaim our glorious commission in the cultural mandate of the Dominion mandate to actually promote families, to protect children, to stand for these truths, to live them out in our lives, our marriages, our homes and our communities, and to show the world what it looks like to be a Christian by actually tearing down these high places of sex, cult worship and baby sacrifice if we want.

Seth Gruber 01:38:31 Listen, I want to make America great again, too. But you can't make America great again if you don't know what made America great in the first place. And if you want to know what made America great in the first place, it was a Christian faith. And if you want to know what happens when the Christian faith is taken seriously, what it leads to revival. There's been two great things that have always preceded every great revival. Laura one intense prayer fulness. We need to pray. We need to fight on our knees first, and then we need to get up and fight on our feet. Here's the second thing that's preceded every great revival. Ready? Yes. Protection and care for the young, the small, the vulnerable, the weak, the voiceless, the marginalized, the unloved and the unlovely. It's almost as if we can actually give God a reason to show America mercy. He doesn't need us, but we get to participate in the glorious calling of both we at our ministry. Lord, we call it of both resistance and reformation, right? the mistake of modern Christianity has been to treat Christ's victory as an excuse for passivity, rather than as a summons to action.

Seth Gruber 01:39:38 but Scripture teaches the opposite. Because Christ has won, we are sent. because the decisive blow has been struck. We are commissioned to advance that victory into every domain where rebellion still rages. We're not just saved from our sin. For the future hope of heaven, we're saved. That we might be filled with the spirit and sent to the nations, calling upon them to repent and join us in our glorious march to the Promised Land. And that always includes the family, right? The war against the family. It's not an accident of history. This this hour and a half. We've been talking together. It's not an accident. It's strategic because the family is the basic unit of dominion, of discipleship, of cultural continuity. And so to fracture the family is to weaken, resistance to tyranny, to, to confuse sexual identity is to sever creation from meaning to, to destroy the bond between children and parents is to interrupt the transmission of truth across generations. And Satan understands this, and the church must do.

Seth Gruber 01:40:46 Christ has already disarmed the enemy, Laura, but he has not called his people to retreat behind walls and wait for evacuation. He has called us to occupy, to watch, to contend, to build, to raise children in the truth, to honor marriage, to to speak clearly when the world demands silence and to refuse, false peace when there's a freaking war raging. So it means that this doesn't mean, like, hatred or panic, by the way. Like. Like being scared of the world. No, no, no, it means that we fight with confidence. We don't enter this conflict trying to earn victory. We enter it because the victory has already been given by the King of Kings. But that's why Paul says, Laura, we are more than conquerors, right? More than conquerors. Okay, so not barely surviving, not clinging to hope by our fingernails. We are overwhelming victors because we share in the triumph of another. Life cannot separate us from Christ. Death cannot separate us from Christ.

Seth Gruber 01:41:42 Neither persecution nor cultural scorn, nor institutional pressure, can can undo what he has already secured. And then what does Scripture tell us, Laura? Even death, which is called the Last Enemy, has been stripped of its sting. And so for the Christian, death is no longer a prison. It's a doorway, a threshold. It's a passage into glory. And so what remains fearsome for us in the West as Christians, Laura, is not death itself, but maybe dying, right? The pain, suffering, loss. But even those are not meaningless. They're the birth pains of a world being restored. And that is why we are calling the church to courage. In the last film dedicated to Charlie, with our resistance chapters mobilizing the Church. Laura, we're calling the church to courage. Christians who know how the story ends are the most dangerous people in the world to tyrants, ideologues, and false gods. We are not fighting to save ourselves. We're fighting because we belong to a king who is already one.

Seth Gruber 01:42:41 And that king invites us, Laura, as his people, to participate in the unfolding of that victory until every enemy is finally placed under his feet. The culture war is not beneath us. It is beneath him. And that is precisely why we engage. So stand watch, friends, take the field, guard the family. Speak the truth. Raise the next generation. The champion has gone before us. This war is real. But victory is certain. And the trumpet has sounded. The call has gone forth. And the faithful must answer. And if you want to participate in what we're doing, guys, go to the last stand up film, The Last Stand film, and you can host the screening of the film that we dedicated to Charlie Kirk, about the glorious history and heritage of Christians fighting evil. It's not a political calling, although of course, this fight has political aspects, but it's a glorious summons to the church to remember who she is and join us in retaking America for Aslan and King Jesus.

Seth Gruber 01:43:37 And the best way we're going to do that is we're going to tear down the high places by ending weird sex cult worship and baby killing. If we don't do that, you will not make America great again.

Lara Logan 01:43:46 Amazing. Seth, thank you so, so much. I definitely there's about six more conversations I want to have with you.

Multiple Speakers 01:43:54 At least do it. At least I lost.

Lara Logan 01:43:56 Count at a certain point.

Seth Gruber 01:43:58 And we'll do a regular a regular special every month. Laura and Seth.

Lara Logan 01:44:02 That would be amazing. There's so many things I want to drill down on in detail, but I appreciate you making the time for us and and for all that you do in your two books. I know your latest book is The Last Stand your book before that 1916. That was the nice inversion there of the rewriting of our history. And, and of course, the white rose resistance. People can find everything about you on the white Rose resistance website, and I love I should be wearing the white rose that I was.

Multiple Speakers 01:44:30 Giving.

Lara Logan 01:44:31 That lapel pin.

Seth Gruber 01:44:32 Yeah, we wear that.

Multiple Speakers 01:44:33 Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Lara Logan 01:44:34 That's pretty fabulous. That was a.

Multiple Speakers 01:44:36 And.

Seth Gruber 01:44:36 There's a story behind the ministry too, because the white Rose resistance were Christian young kids in Nazi Germany in their 20s. Yeah. And there's this brother sister duo named Hans and Sophie, and we named our daughter Sophie. And it's a beautiful story. I'll tell another time on your show.

Multiple Speakers 01:44:48 It is a beautiful story.

Seth Gruber 01:44:49 These were people who fought evil.

Lara Logan 01:44:51 So yes, it is a beautiful story. It's on the website. we are out of time. And you have generously, you know, given. Let us go over. So I look forward to our next conversation. And, and also, you know, staying engaged because I definitely am on the frontlines of this fight. So thank you very.

Multiple Speakers 01:45:10 Very much.

Lara Logan 01:45:11 And thank you for.

Multiple Speakers 01:45:12 Your prayers. Let me get on the soapbox. No, it's not a soapbox. Thank you. It's not as simple as going rogue with Lara Logan I love it.

Lara Logan 01:45:21 Well, thank you so much. I want to thank my audience. You know what to do. We need you to like and to share and to subscribe. I've got I've got many dogs in this studio. and, this is, you know, we're very, very grateful to everybody for supporting our show, for supporting our guests. Most important thing is to get as many people as possible to hear their voices. So please get this out to as many people as you can. And, thank you so much for supporting us, for listening and for, as always, being bold enough to go rogue with Lara Logan.