Going Rogue with Lara Logan - SCANDAL IN THE STOCK MARKET: CEO of Next Bridge Hydrocarbons Greg McCabe Breaks His Silence | Going Rogue with Lara Logan | Ep 99.2

Greg McCabe 00:00:00 We are not an outlier. We are the tip of the iceberg. It means that there are hundreds of other companies that are suffering from this. You have to know that this is business as usual. They do it. They've been doing this so long they don't even think it's wrong anymore. They think it's normal market mechanics when it's nothing more than theft.

Lara Logan 00:00:29 Welcome to this week's episode of Going Rogue with Lara Logan. My guest today has waited three and a half years before speaking out publicly. So this is a very significant moment for Greg McCabe, the chairman and CEO of Next Bridge Hydrocarbons. Now, you might be wondering, what is that got to do with me and why am I listening to this? Well, I'll tell you why. Because this is a story of regulatory malfeasance, basically corruption at the highest levels inside Finra and the SEC. This is a story that affects every single person out there who has ever thought about trading on the stock market, or any entrepreneur who's created their own company and has battled the short sellers and naked short sellers.

Lara Logan 00:01:13 All of those people who mess with your company out there on the market. This is a story that directly impacts tens of thousands of shareholders. Some of them were shareholders in a company called torchlight, and some of them bought shares known as MMT, LP. Now, that will mean nothing to many people out there, but there's an army of MMT, LP shareholders and their families and all the people who were affected by what happened here. It's kind of complicated. It's outside my usual lane because this is a story about the financial markets, but it is an important story to tell because it has a significance for every single American out there who has ever thought about trading on the stock market, or who may be dealing with many of these issues. This is a story. A David and Goliath story. Really, that's what it comes down to. And in this case, Greg McCabe is the David. He is an oil man from Texas. He's been in oil and gas for the past 42 years. And let me tell you something, I've spent a little bit of time with Greg McCabe researching this story.

Lara Logan 00:02:21 And what I learned is that when they picked on him and his lovely wife Melissa, they picked on the wrong people because he's not afraid. And it's something, you know, that I've talked about many times on this show and throughout my career. Is that the the true definition of courage is not the absence of fear. There isn't really such a thing as fearless. It's acting in the presence of fear. And when you have people who are not intimidated, who don't bow to the tactics, who go through years of being targeted and harassed, those are the true warriors. Those are the people that all of us rely on. And Greg McCabe is one of those people. So, Greg, I'd like to welcome you to the show. Thank you so much. I'm I'm kind of honored, actually, that you would choose this moment and this show, and you would trust me to tell your story. I know that to some people, this is a complicated issue. Can you try to. Can you explain to our audience what is this story really about?

Greg McCabe 00:03:21 Yes, I can.

Greg McCabe 00:03:21 Thank you so much, Laura, for having me on. This is my first time to speak out. I've put out some press releases here and there to kind of express some of my dissatisfaction or my frustration, but I've been very cautious not to speak out until I let the process play out. The process has officially played out. It's taken three and a half years. Had I known it in advance, it would take in three and a half years. I might have made different decisions along the way, but right now it's time for our story to be told.

Lara Logan 00:03:45 So what process are you talking about? Tell people what actually happened.

Greg McCabe 00:03:49 Well, we got spun out as a private entity from MMT LP, which was our predecessor.

Lara Logan 00:03:56 I mean, we as next.

Multiple Speakers 00:03:57 We mean.

Greg McCabe 00:03:58 Hydrocarbons. All of my next rich hydrocarbon shareholders were part of a group called MMT, LP, which was a ticker symbol delivered to us by Finra.

Lara Logan 00:04:06 But is it ticker symbol?

Greg McCabe 00:04:07 Ticker symbol is the symbol that allows people to trade stock back and forth on public exchanges.

Greg McCabe 00:04:12 And so we were traded on a public exchange without our permission and without our authority. the management of the companies called and complained about it and they said, sorry, Finra gave us the ticker symbol OTC. We're going to go ahead and keep showing it.

Lara Logan 00:04:26 We call over-the-counter OTC. Right.

Greg McCabe 00:04:29 George Pelecanos, chairman of meta, called Finra and complained about it. And they said, sorry, it's got a ticker symbol. It's trading.

Lara Logan 00:04:36 Okay. So you referred to George and Meta and people don't know what this is about. So let me explain this and you stop me where I get it wrong okay? Okay. Perfect. So there was a Canadian company called Meta Materials out of Canada, right? That was trading on the Canadian Stock exchange. They wanted to change trade on the Nasdaq. And so they formed a partnership with a with torchlight, which is also an oil and gas company that was already on the Nasdaq. And the way they did it wasn't a normal merger. It was a reverse merger.

Lara Logan 00:05:11 and and when they did that, they removed torch lights, assets, oil and gas assets. And that's what you call those were the spin offs that became.

Multiple Speakers 00:05:24 Exactly.

Lara Logan 00:05:24 And and those were basically shares that were set aside. Right. There weren't actual physical shares. They were the what they were offering the shareholders was the ability to have, as some of the ownership, a stake in the ownership, if the, if the company was sold or for them to have what.

Greg McCabe 00:05:44 Or if it was spun out eventually.

Lara Logan 00:05:46 Or if it was spun out. Correct. So so basically you had, Metamaterials out of Canada that did this reverse merger with Torch Light. They spun out all these shareholders. So and so those shares were restricted and they were unregistered. Correct. They were never meant to be traded. That was what became. DLP which was metamaterials too for convenience sake. So you had metamaterials one in Canada. Metamaterials two spun out of this merger with torchlight. But the shareholders of torchlight who were in that MMT LP, they were told from the beginning this would not be traded because these were unregistered restricted.

Lara Logan 00:06:31 This was a dividend write preferred a shares and and you were the chairman of the board at torchlight. Correct. Correct. So you were present when all of this was happening. And then out of the blue, trading began on the, Against the company's wishes on those preferred shares. Correct. Correct.

Greg McCabe 00:06:53 Yes. And one data point you did leave out is on our registration statement that actually created the preferred dividend that was approved by the SEC. It said specifically we would not be a trading company, but they went ahead and traded it without their permission. But I think a better context might be to back up just a little bit before the merger to say that torchlight had a Nasdaq listing, and we got a target on our back from a short attack, and it was relentless. When we were at Covid and we had negative oil prices, it was absolutely terrible. It was so bad that as chairman, I said this, we have got to stop. We are going to get out of this den of thieves and move forward as a private company.

Greg McCabe 00:07:31 It was that event that got us to meet George Pelecanos of Metamaterials and work out this reverse merger. So that was all predicated by the, the, the seeds of the original short attack. That short attack grew and grew and grew to something that's still going on to this day.

Lara Logan 00:07:47 Okay, so there's two things we need to address there for people who are not familiar with the financial markets. And and all of this one is the short attack. What do you mean by that? And two is just the reverse merger which so I understand it. So a merger would, would normally be when when two companies come together and create a new publicly traded company. Right. But this is where you're going from. A reverse merger is when you go from being a public company to private. Is that correct?

Greg McCabe 00:08:13 Not exactly. The way it works is metamaterials was, in effect, a private company. They were in the Canadian equivalent of the OTC. They wanted to get on the American exchange and be a part of Nasdaq.

Greg McCabe 00:08:24 So we created a merger where we joined our companies and metamaterials became the survivor. So in effect, the the smaller company that was not publicly traded survived the merger. That's what a reverse merger means.

Lara Logan 00:08:38 Instead of the big company, it.

Multiple Speakers 00:08:40 Was the smaller the.

Greg McCabe 00:08:40 Big company, we were Nasdaq. We weren't the one gobbling up another company. They wanted our Nasdaq listing, of which we were happy to give it to him because we needed to get away from this chaos in the US markets.

Multiple Speakers 00:08:51 But they didn't.

Lara Logan 00:08:52 Want your oil and gas assets.

Multiple Speakers 00:08:53 Absolutely.

Lara Logan 00:08:54 So you spun those off into this other entity called MMT, LP.

Greg McCabe 00:08:58 Well, no, actually we didn't. What we did was we created a preferred dividend, and any of the legacy shareholders from torchlight would be the beneficiaries of that preferred dividend. We did it through June of 21 and it worked just fine. But four months later, in October of 21, that's when we started trading as MMT LP. So when you say the words MMT LP, just know it had nothing to do with torchlight.

Greg McCabe 00:09:20 It had nothing to do with meta. It was all a calculation by some people who were caught offsides and they wanted to trade our shares.

Lara Logan 00:09:28 Okay, so when you say court offsides, you need to explain that. But but let's go back first to the short attack.

Multiple Speakers 00:09:34 Okay.

Lara Logan 00:09:34 So can you explain what that means?

Greg McCabe 00:09:37 Yes. A short attack is just an organized hit on a company. When the sad part of the American stock market right now is it is far easier, and it's far more profitable to destroy an American company than it is to build one. And the way they do it are these short attacks, and it's absolutely pathetic. What they do is they they do some really basic things like put out false news articles by quote unquote journalists. They do hit pieces, they do whistleblower reports, they do frivolous lawsuits. Anything you can imagine to create chaos in a company, create a smoke around them to where people go, wow, there's something wrong with that company. I want to get away with that, get away from that.

Greg McCabe 00:10:17 And that's why I said, we cannot keep playing this game. I'm telling you, these are some terrible people with no conscience. I mean, if they would put half as much effort into building something, they could be fabulously wealthy, but they're spending their days just destroying American companies and destroying American investors.

Lara Logan 00:10:33 So they do that by shorting the stock of the company. So can you explain what shorting means?

Multiple Speakers 00:10:38 Well.

Greg McCabe 00:10:39 Let's just say for a moment that you were an investor and you wanted to bet $100 on torchlight. If torchlight went bankrupt, you would lose your $100. But if you bet against torchlight, you bet against the success of my company, you could lose far more than $100. You could lose a thousand. You could lose 10,000. Truly, your downside is infinite. So if you make a bet that could be a true existential threat to your company, then you're not going to leave anything to chance. So hiring these pathetic pack of wolves to torment me and my board and my family and my friends and my investors, it's it's not.

Greg McCabe 00:11:15 As John Berta told me, my former CEO. Hey, Greg, it's nothing personal. They don't know you. They don't care about you. They have one goal that's to destroy you. When they get done with you, they'll never think of you again. They're on to the next target.

Lara Logan 00:11:26 So how does it work? How do they actually do that to you? By shorting.

Greg McCabe 00:11:32 I discussed to you about the idea of the Wolfpack and all their efforts to torment companies out of existence. That's powerful. And it grabs the headlines. But what's really the most powerful thing is naked shorting. And every time.

Lara Logan 00:11:43 Okay, but wait, you still haven't explained what shorting is.

Greg McCabe 00:11:46 Okay. Shorting is the betting against a company. So I'm going to use you as the as an example, if you wanted to bet against my company, you would go out into the market and you would borrow a share of torchlight and you would sell it to the open market. Then you would wait in hopes that our stock price dropped.

Greg McCabe 00:12:02 When our stock price dropped, you would go back in the market and buy it at a cheaper price, give it back to the person you borrowed from and that spread is what you made. So let's go back to the $100 example. You bought something for 100. You crushed our price down to half price. You go to the market, you buy it for $50, you pay back your share and you've made a $50 profit.

Lara Logan 00:12:23 Don't let the IRS rob you these days. You don't even have to ask where your money is going, because every time you turn around, there is yet another big story about fraud. Sometimes it's waste, sometimes it's improper payments. Much of the time it's just plain fraud. And when you consider how hard you work for every dollar that you earn, it just isn't right. In 2025, the Government Accountability Office reported $186 billion in improper federal payments. And if you go back to 2003, that number jumps to roughly $3 trillion. And on top of that, the Gao also estimates that the federal government loses between 233 and $521 billion every year to fraud alone.

Lara Logan 00:13:18 So that is hundreds of billions of your tax dollars disappearing every single year. While you're expected to tighten your belt, keep on paying and never ask questions. And then the IRS comes after you for your hard earned money. They want you to feel powerless to comply, of course. Stay quiet. Just hand it over. But Freedom Law School says there is actually a way out of this system. And at Freedom Law School, they've been teaching Americans for over 30 years that there is no law which requires 99% of Americans to file and pay income tax. They also say that none of their students who have stopped paying their taxes have gone to prison, or had their bank accounts or their property taken by the IRS. So you don't have to take the government's word for it. You can go to Freedom Law School today, and you can take the seven steps to freedom from IRS deception, robbery and slavery. So for true freedom, go to Freedom Law School today. So basically you buy the share at one price, then you wage an information warfare campaign against your company so that people lose confidence in it.

Lara Logan 00:14:37 They sell their shares. The price drops.

Greg McCabe 00:14:39 Exactly.

Lara Logan 00:14:39 And then I make my profit out of the fact that I'm the share that I return to the person I lent it from. I actually acquired it for much less.

Greg McCabe 00:14:48 Exactly. And in in real world, shorting with illegal shorting is you can do that, but you're not supposed to impact the market. It's a lot. It's the inverse of pump and dump. You've heard of somebody pumping up their share price and then dumping it. Well, this is what we call short and distort. They that is is as equally illegal as pump and dump is just.

Lara Logan 00:15:08 Why is it allowed?

Greg McCabe 00:15:10 That is wonderful question. And I'm not I don't have the patience to find out that answer. I want it out of this market so bad that I told my board we were going to get out of here, we're going to merge, and we're going to move on to something else. We're going to still be an oil and gas company. But it is, I hate to say it, there's a Toby Keith song that says, I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then.

Greg McCabe 00:15:30 I am so disgusted by how this plays out. It's just unbelievable.

Lara Logan 00:15:35 So shorting your stock is one way to attack a company. But then what's even worse is naked short selling. You said. Okay, so explain what that is.

Greg McCabe 00:15:44 Okay. Naked shorting is exactly what I just described. Except for one component is missing. Instead of you going to the market and borrowing a share, you don't borrow it at all. You just start selling shares into the market.

Lara Logan 00:15:55 Fake shares?

Greg McCabe 00:15:56 That shares. Yes. And if anybody tells you ever that there's no such thing as naked shorting, realize that they're very ill informed or they're in on the scam, there's no other explanation. That naked shorting is very real. I'll tell you how bad it is. Donald Trump has complained about naked shorting against his truth social company. Elon Musk has complained about it about on Tesla. Elon Musk has a great quote. The stock market is the only place in the world where you can sell something you don't own. And he's been victimized.

Greg McCabe 00:16:26 So. So think for a moment. I'm a small little oil and gas company in West Texas, and I'm struggling with this. The most wealthiest man on planet Earth and the most powerful man on planet Earth are not immune to this disease that's infecting America.

Lara Logan 00:16:39 So then how many other Americans does it affect?

Greg McCabe 00:16:42 Well, every shareholder of a company that's being attacked is being punished. So if somebody says this is not important, it doesn't concern me, then you're not in the stock market. If you're in the stock market, please know that this will impact you at some point.

Lara Logan 00:16:53 But the unfortunate part about this is that we have regulatory bodies like Finra, which are set up to, to make sure that these things are regulated and that they're, that people can't attack your company into extinction. I mean, that's what they're there for. That's their job. So, are they not doing their job?

Greg McCabe 00:17:15 I would tell you that a job task is to protect retail investors. They have failed miserably.

Lara Logan 00:17:22 Why do you say that?

Greg McCabe 00:17:23 Well, let's go straight to the problem.

Greg McCabe 00:17:25 The very event that most of my MMT LP army is the most upset about. And it's December 9th of 2022 when Finra initiated an extremely rare U3 halt. Now, there are multiple types of halts out there. The most rare is called U3 halt, which is reserved for just the most extraordinary of events.

Lara Logan 00:17:44 So I want to stop you there for a moment, Greg, because let's just recap for people. This is a very complicated story, and I want to keep people with us. All right. So you have metamaterials in Canada that does this reverse merger with torchlight. Torchlight is trading on the Nasdaq. It's very common right. For for a company like like this one in Canada that was on over-the-counter shares in Canada that wanted to trade on the Nasdaq. So that kind of merger is not uncommon. You do this reverse merger, the meta becomes the company, and then you issue these preferred class A restricted unregistered shares that were never meant to be traded. Correct. So four months later, would they suddenly stop being traded? Yes.

Lara Logan 00:18:24 As MMT LP. So you have these original shareholders from torchlight who are preferred share holders, who shares stop being traded without their knowledge or permission. Correct? Right. And then you have a second class of shareholders, people who bought MMT, LP shares when they were being traded. Correct. Right. These are the two classes of people that are affected by this. That's true. So, June 2000.

Greg McCabe 00:18:54 June of 2021. We did the merger in in October of 2021. It started trading with our permission.

Lara Logan 00:19:00 Now, how did that happen?

Greg McCabe 00:19:01 We have no idea. We've asked. Certain people have filed lawsuits. We want to know who's behind getting us traded. And like everything from day one, for some reason, the regulators seem to think we're not worthy of data regarding our own company. They just refuse to give us information.

Lara Logan 00:19:16 So a company's own shares can be traded without their knowledge or permission?

Greg McCabe 00:19:22 Yes. And and it happened to us.

Lara Logan 00:19:24 But is that is that legal?

Greg McCabe 00:19:26 It must be.

Greg McCabe 00:19:27 We've we've people have filed lawsuits and have lost.

Lara Logan 00:19:30 That's ridiculous.

Greg McCabe 00:19:31 It is ridiculous.

Lara Logan 00:19:32 That's absolutely ridiculous. And Finra and the SEC who oversees Finra. They don't. They don't owe you an explanation.

Greg McCabe 00:19:40 They haven't given me one yet. So.

Lara Logan 00:19:42 Well, I know that the original owner of metamaterials out of Canada, George. Right. He has tried to get these answers. Yes. I've spoken to John, who was the original owner of torchlight.

Greg McCabe 00:19:55 Yes. He was actually the CEO there. Both were CEOs of the company. They both had lots of shareholders. They both had chairman's. I happened to be chairman of the board. John Vernon John Burton was the CEO of the company that ran torchlight, and I was the chairman.

Lara Logan 00:20:09 And I spoke to John before come to this interview. And they both have tried to get these answers from Finra. They have never or the SEC. They have never received anything that tells them who was responsible. But there is a process, right? Right. To get a company to trade in a company stock, you have to go to them to, and you have to.

Lara Logan 00:20:33 There has to be a buyer and seller.

Greg McCabe 00:20:34 That has to be a buyer and seller. And you have to get OTC. To approve trading on their exchange, which they did. And then you have to go to Finra and request. A ticker symbol.

Lara Logan 00:20:43 Now, Finra has acknowledged to John Berta that the documents and the information that they have about The company were old and inaccurate. That's right. And Finra offered him an opportunity to correct the record.

Greg McCabe 00:20:57 Yes. That was so, so gracious of Finra.

Lara Logan 00:20:59 Can you please amend amend the our own documents so that we can justify.

Greg McCabe 00:21:06 Exactly.

Lara Logan 00:21:06 Trading in your company without your knowledge or permission?

Greg McCabe 00:21:09 By all means, amend the fraudulent data about your company. Is what Finra basically said. They went back to 2012 and picked out the board and the management of torchlight and put that on the data set for MMT, LP. And when John complained, it was, oh, by all means, change it.

Lara Logan 00:21:27 Not. We'll fix this. Not we'll stop the trading.

Lara Logan 00:21:30 They could have halted trading then and said, well, there's fraud here. That's the problem, right? But they didn't do it then. So instead those MMT was traded from what.

Greg McCabe 00:21:42 From October of 2021 until we were going to spin out in December of 2022. So almost 13 months we were trading.

Lara Logan 00:21:51 Okay. And so in this time. Are you going nuts?

Greg McCabe 00:21:54 No, we were shocked in the beginning and then we just came to terms with it. We made put all our complaints in and our complaints were ignored. So we just said, let's move about our business. Let's either get the company sold or let's get it spun out. That was our goal was.

Lara Logan 00:22:07 So what was your permission, your position at this point?

Greg McCabe 00:22:10 At this point? Actually, I had zero position. I was I when we merged in June of 2021, I backed away from it all. I wasn't on the board. I wasn't on the management. I wasn't an insider in any way. All I was was a shareholder of both Matty, which was the survivor that we talked about at the reverse merger.

Greg McCabe 00:22:27 And then I was a large shareholder in the oil and gas assets that was was traded as MGMT, L.P., against our wishes.

Lara Logan 00:22:33 So you were one of those shareholders?

Greg McCabe 00:22:35 Absolutely. I was a legacy torchlight shareholder.

Lara Logan 00:22:37 And then you decided to do what?

Greg McCabe 00:22:41 at that point, we decided to just spin the company out. We had attempted to market the company without success. We thought we needed more wells drilled to prove the concept. So we said, let's just spin it out. Everything was planned for a December spin out. And what strangely happened is you've heard of all the chaos around GameStop and AMC and all these other what they refer to as meme stocks. For some reason, we caught the attention of a lot of people who thought this was a possibility of a price run up. There was nothing in the company plans or strategies that ever initiated this. We were just trying to get away from this den of thieves, and the fact that it took on a life of its own. I can't explain it, but what happened was our price started running up.

Greg McCabe 00:23:24 Then other people started hearing about it. And chaos just. That's when chaos reigned supreme. From November 23rd till December 8th, it was true chaos. We were had market volatility all the way up to $12.50. It was just crazy.

Lara Logan 00:23:40 So basically by crazy, what you mean is that your share price was just going nuts. Yes.

Greg McCabe 00:23:45 And the volume was through the roof.

Lara Logan 00:23:47 Now but and the volume being traded. But was this because you had notified the public that you were no longer going to be trading as MMT, LP?

Greg McCabe 00:23:58 I can't really tell you what the actual impetus was behind it. That could very well be a part of it, but there was a lot of discussion online about there going to spin out when they spin out to be private, all of the people with the short positions are going to have to close that short position. That was all over social media.

Lara Logan 00:24:14 Okay. So can you just. There's one piece that's missing here for the audience. Can you explain? So when you decided to spin out the company.

Lara Logan 00:24:22 There's a process to that, right? Did you have to inform the SEC and get them to issue a company notice?

Greg McCabe 00:24:29 Not, not. Well, we filed a registration statement with the SEC, but what we did is we informed Finra that we were ready for the to deliver our corporate action, and that's it.

Lara Logan 00:24:39 The corporate action. Right. Right. And that is written by the company. The corporate.

Greg McCabe 00:24:43 The company writes the corporate action. The company.

Lara Logan 00:24:45 What is that?

Greg McCabe 00:24:45 It is basically anytime there's a material change to your company, you need to let the world know about it. And then what you do is you have your attorneys write it, you submit it to Finra. And Finra has two options. They can either approve that corporate action or they can reject it. And the rejection is because they deem it insufficient and send it back to have you do it again.

Lara Logan 00:25:05 So then you amend it and you would refile it. That's what. And what is your corporate action state.

Greg McCabe 00:25:10 It states specifically that we're going to stop trading on December 12th and by close of business to allow T plus two settlement time on December 14th.

Greg McCabe 00:25:20 There will no longer be an MMT LP, and anybody that owned MMT LP would now be the owners of Next hydrocarbon shares.

Lara Logan 00:25:27 Okay, so basically peop for people who've got MMT, LP stock, they're being told you have this window and to complete your trades. And if you don't trade out your stock you'll just become an owner of hydrocarbons. That's right. Right. And and you allowed that two days because that's the standard time for trades to close.

Greg McCabe 00:25:48 At that particular time it was T plus two. They've now changed it to T plus one. But we were our attorneys who were world class law firms representing not only metamaterials but also representing the soon to be formed next to hydrocarbons. Spend a lot of energy and a lot of time discussing settlement and clearance issues. A lot of manpower and a lot of legal expense went into making sure we took care of settlement and clearance issues. And remember that phrase settlement and clearance issues. I'll get to that in a moment.

Lara Logan 00:26:15 Okay. So what did Finra do?

Greg McCabe 00:26:17 Okay.

Greg McCabe 00:26:17 What Finra did is the one thing that's not in their purview is they didn't approve it. They didn't reject it. No, they changed it. They changed it without the permission of the issuer, which is metamaterials. And they changed it in a way, in real time. We didn't know what was going on. We were baffled. But in hindsight, we realized they changed it in a way to make settlement and clearance an absolute concern. They changed the date from the 14th to the 13th. That one singular move all of a sudden created the cloud that they needed, which I perceive as the excuse they wanted for a U3 halt.

Lara Logan 00:26:52 Okay, so by doing that, all the people who completed trades on the 12th by closing it on the 13th instead of trading instead of the 14th, all those people, they there was no time for their trades to be completed.

Greg McCabe 00:27:06 There was a perception of that. But but the reality was they made it clear. Finra took the liberty of saying all trades Through the close of business on the eighth would get the settlement which gave gave you the two days of trading.

Greg McCabe 00:27:19 We had never introduced a number of December 8th that was completely out of the blue from Finra. And so on December 6th, just two days before we were supposed to stop, they made a material change. And then on December 8th, just less than ten hours before the three halt, they made another material change which basically said instead of cancelled, they changed it to delete.

Lara Logan 00:27:42 And what was cancelled, what was the leader?

Greg McCabe 00:27:45 The ticker symbol MMT, LP would be cancelled was the way we had it. And they said delete.

Lara Logan 00:27:50 And what's the significance of that?

Greg McCabe 00:27:52 I got to tell you, I still don't have a perfect grasp of why they did it. The best explanation I've been given so far is if you delete that symbol, it buries the body and they can move on. There's no chance of coming back to trading to give us our two days, I see.

Lara Logan 00:28:05 Yes, cancelled can be that sort of. It's dormant. Yes. Whereas if it's deleted, it's completely gone. Okay so here you have Finra make not one but two material amendments to the corporate action, which they're not supposed to touch at all.

Lara Logan 00:28:20 That's according to their own rules. And they did it without your knowledge and without your permission.

Greg McCabe 00:28:25 Yes, there is a rule called rule 6490 that says specifically what they're capable of doing. And they did something that was not in their purview.

Lara Logan 00:28:33 So they could have if they wanted to make a change, they could have sent it back to you and said, this needs to be amended.

Greg McCabe 00:28:38 Absolutely. That's what they should have done, right. But here's an important data point you need to know. Those two material changes they made actually impacted shareholder decision. So the regulator in charge of protecting retail investors actually made a change. That said, shares purchased after the eighth would not receive the next bridge hydrocarbon dividend. So if you think for just a moment what they were saying, it acknowledged that there would be shares sold after the eighth. And I have had several shareholders who said that impacted my decision. I knew the ninth and the 12th were now going to be positioned close only and position close only is basically, if you have a short position before this is private, you better settle your bets.

Greg McCabe 00:29:17 And that was my biggest frustration. When I hear this from a lot of my shareholders, it was Finra deceit behind saying shares purchase after the eighth would get would not get the dividend was what made them purchase shares and they'll they'll never take ownership of that. They they put out two two FAQs. There's never been an FAQ by Finra in the history of time. We had not one, but two.

Lara Logan 00:29:42 Was an FAQ.

Greg McCabe 00:29:43 Frequently asked questions. They were getting so many questions at their office that they put out a published FAQ, and then they had a demand letter from 74 bipartisan members of Congress demanding answers. They put out a long letter, and I'm going to tell you those two FAQs. And that letter to Congress was a screaming whistle to me, that something is seriously wrong. Those people are telling what I would call either red herrings, gaslighting, demonstrable lies. They were working so hard to to cloud this picture and to get away with their their bad behavior. That my brain finally went. This problem is way worse than I originally thought.

Greg McCabe 00:30:24 Adults don't act that way unless they're covering up something massive.

Lara Logan 00:30:27 Well, you know, they say the cover up is worse than the crime.

Greg McCabe 00:30:30 Absolutely. That's what I feel where we are right right now.

Lara Logan 00:30:33 Okay. And I just want to make sure that people understand. So, you know, if you were a regular shareholder and you didn't want to sell your shares, you had a long position. You were just going to go into next bridge. HyperCard, hydrocarbons. This didn't affect you, but if you were trading in MMT, LP shares, your your trade was not that. By closing this early and by issuing the halt, Finra prevented those trades from being completed. So that's one class of people who were affected by this. But can you explain how those people who had shorted the stock, how they were affected. Because basically you have now at this at this point, at the moment that trading is halted. All those people who have short positions haven't paid that stock back. Right. That's right.

Lara Logan 00:31:22 And now they can't they can't buy it at all. Therefore they can't pay their debt.

Greg McCabe 00:31:27 That's right.

Lara Logan 00:31:27 And so those those are the people that at that point they bet against your company and they lost.

Greg McCabe 00:31:34 That's right.

Lara Logan 00:31:35 But now they they're not I'm never going to have to pay back their debt.

Greg McCabe 00:31:39 That's right. The U3 halt was an absolute gift to people that were betting against my company and trying to destroy us. It was unbelievable. I've even had some people try to tell me, well, this was unfair to both sides. The people that wanted to sell couldn't sell, but the short sellers couldn't close out their position. And I went, that is not going to work with me. That is so unbelievably just disingenuous that the short sellers were somehow victimized by the U3 halt. So for three and a half years they had the benefit of this victimization, and we'll get to what's happened here recently as to why this is such a problem. But I want to go back to the actual U3 halt the two FAQs and the letters to Congress.

Greg McCabe 00:32:17 There was such an uproar from the shareholders. There were calls upon Congress, calls upon Finra, calls upon attorney generals. It was just unbelievable, the frustration. So Finra did their best to explain it away. And one of the questions that kept being asked is, well, you did a U3 halt for an extraordinary event. Please tell us what the extraordinary event was. And the best they could come up with is they said we did it for settlement and clearance concerns, and we did it to protect investors. So I got to say, that is so painful to hear them say something that unbelievably absurd, but let's just indulge that bit of fantasy for just a moment. What Finra tried to tell the world was that in case somebody who wasn't paying attention wanted to buy shares on the ninth and 12th, and that person had a broker dealer that did not know how to read. Two separate corporate actions were going to freeze the assets of 124,000 shareholders to protect these hypothetical investors. And I'm talking about real shareholders with real families, and I'm talking about veterans who risked their life for this great country.

Greg McCabe 00:33:23 I'm talking about senior citizens. I'm talking about retirees who's whose earning years are behind them. They have no recovery time. But Finra, in their infinite wisdom, said, you know what? We're going to really worry about these hypothetical investors. So we're going to freeze the assets of 124,000 real Americans. I'm going to tell you there's only one of two answers. Either Finra is an extremely bad decision maker, or they're lying to cover up what I consider an epic financial crime.

Lara Logan 00:33:51 Well, it isn't even on the surface of it, right? It doesn't make any sense. Absolutely. Because. Because if you're, you you can't disenfranchise 124,000 investors and say you because you want to protect other investors. And also let's let's talk about that for a moment. The physical cost to these 124,000 investors, what has been the impact? Because they weren't protected. And as a result, what has happened to them?

Greg McCabe 00:34:19 Oh, it's been terrible. Their assets are truly frozen. And I will tell you on a weekly basis I get letters, I get emails, I get texts, I get phone calls, and people just want to share their story with me as how terrible this has been.

Greg McCabe 00:34:32 I've had people tell me about losing their kids college fund, losing their home, losing their retirement accounts. I've had, sadly, three different people we've heard have committed suicide over this. This has been an unbelievable impact. And if you take the absurd thing that I just told you that people are losing their homes and their retirement accounts, just in case a hypothetical investor might have bought shares on the ninth and 12th, it just doesn't stand the logic test.

Lara Logan 00:34:59 Help me understand how this leads to people committing suicide. What is it that happened? So? So they they halt in, you know, old trading in next bridge hydrocarbons. So now what is the impact those people who owned shares now own what shares in a private company which cannot be traded. So they cannot they cannot recoup their investment. They cannot sell their shares in next bridge. Is that the idea?

Greg McCabe 00:35:26 That's exactly right. It's a private illiquid company. So if I can't tell you the specifics of the those three suicides or the pain that I've seen through these letters, what I can tell you is think of someone who spent 50 years working and saving and building their retirement account, and then seeing an opportunity that they knew they still had two days left to trade on.

Greg McCabe 00:35:46 And they decide to to make a sizable investment in this. And then on December 9th, they wake up and it's wiped out. It's zero on all of their accounts. That's why they were so frustrated and so upset. And think about how you deal with that, with with how your spouse, your your family. How do you explain away where that money went and all of it was done? This is the most disgusting part about this. Every single beneficiary of this U3 Holt was somebody. When you pull the thread, you're going to go to the guy that was making a bet against me and my company. So the people that are being rewarded and protected are the people that were trying to destroy an American company and have destroyed American investors. And the people that are hurt are the people that mistakenly had the faith in the US financial system.

Lara Logan 00:36:36 It's it's really quite astonishing that you can that all of this can be legal.

Greg McCabe 00:36:42 It's unbelievable. Again, I said it before and I'll say it again. I never would have believed this was possible had I not lived through it.

Lara Logan 00:36:49 I mean, this is as corrupt as it gets. Yes. Okay, so but now we keep saying Finra and the SEC. but as if there's a sort of amorphous entities and there aren't human beings making these decisions, right? There are specific human beings making these decisions. Are they or not?

Greg McCabe 00:37:08 Absolutely. And let's just break that down. So Finra is actually not a government agency. Finra is the association of broker dealers, and they've been bestowed the power by the SEC to regulate the markets, to protect retail investors. So on the face of it, just think of the absurdity that we have said. The Association of Broker Dealers will be protecting retail investors from broker dealers on the outset. I'm troubled with that thought process. But ultimately, who answers who Finra answers to is the SEC, and the SEC is actually a government agency, and it is, as of February of 2025, under the purview of President Trump, based on his newest executive action, one of his newer executive actions.

Lara Logan 00:37:52 So this is why you have delivered a letter to President Trump.

Lara Logan 00:37:55 You've had that delivered.

Multiple Speakers 00:37:57 Okay.

Lara Logan 00:37:57 Just be appealing to him.

Greg McCabe 00:37:58 Just to be clear, I have not delivered a letter. Next bridge is not delivered a letter. I have a fantastic army surrounded me and I do not dictate what that army does. I do not tell them what to do. They speak to me a lot. They tell me what's going on. And every time I say this is your money, these are your shares. You need to do whatever you think is best for you. Do not come to me for permission or do not come to me for guidance. You take care of your business. I'll take care of mine. We're all going in the same direction. But just do what you want. Well, I've been told about a letter that's been sent to President Trump, and it's simply a letter for him to sign. And that letter basically says Paul Adkins, chairman of the SEC. Please deliver the share count, the audited share count from December 9th, 2022 on both foreign and domestic, for all long and short obligations.

Greg McCabe 00:38:48 It's a very succinct letter. I haven't hadn't read it until recently, but I knew with this interview that might come up as a topic. So I've recently read it and it was an extremely well-written letter, and I, I will be very disappointed if President Trump doesn't think that's a worthy letter to put his name on.

Lara Logan 00:39:04 Okay, so that's very important. If anybody out there has any interest in this and any desire to share that, address it to President Trump. ask the president if he will take a look at this. But so can you explain, Greg, why you need to know that share count. Why is that so important? So it's basically that when when Finra holds it all trading that that you three hold which by the way how many you three hold have they issued.

Greg McCabe 00:39:31 And they have been told there's only been three. We're the third one. I don't know how to verify that, but that's what I've been told by multiple sources.

Lara Logan 00:39:37 But by anyone's.

Multiple Speakers 00:39:39 Saying that's pretty rare.

Greg McCabe 00:39:40 Yes it is.

Greg McCabe 00:39:41 It's it's the most rare of all halts. The U3 halt is reserved for extraordinary events.

Lara Logan 00:39:46 And and Finra and the SEC have never been able to explain any extraordinary event.

Greg McCabe 00:39:51 Well, they've sure tried to, but nobody buys it. It's just it is downright ludicrous. Some of their explanations you want to say. Stop embarrassing yourself. Have the courage to speak up and tell the truth. But telling us you did this to protect investors is embarrassing. And you talk about names. I want to tell you a couple of names. Robert Cook is the chairman or the boss? President. I don't know what the phrase is for Finra. His chief legal officer is a guy named Robert Colby. They put together a letter that was sent to congressmen. And I'm telling you, I was so distraught by that letter that I had to put out a third PR to explain how inaccurate they were. A week after I did that, I got hit with a subpoena by the SEC. And guess what my team told me? We told you to stop making powers.

Greg McCabe 00:40:39 They're trying to shut you up. And I'm.

Multiple Speakers 00:40:41 I'm so frustrated.

Greg McCabe 00:40:42 At the weaponization of government that I speak out to explain that you're not telling the truth, and it's unfair to my shareholders. And for that, I get hit with the a subpoena to finish up on that story. Guess what I did? I turned over everything they asked for. I turned over all of my trading records. I turned over all of my bank accounts to two people who I felt like whose interests were adverse to mine. And the reason I did it was to prove that I had nothing to hide. That's what adults who don't do anything wrong. Do they tell the truth and they turn over the data. For three and a half years, we've been asking for one simple thing what's the share count? And you would not believe the amount of energy and money they have spent to hide that from us.

Lara Logan 00:41:21 So why are they hiding the share count? What is the significance of the share count?

Greg McCabe 00:41:26 I think because the share imbalance is massive.

Greg McCabe 00:41:29 That's the only explanation I can.

Lara Logan 00:41:30 Buy in balance. What you mean is there were so many counterfeit fake shares sold, and they don't want you to know that.

Multiple Speakers 00:41:38 That's exactly.

Lara Logan 00:41:39 Right. So all those people that were doing the naked short selling that were creating these counterfeit shares, betting against your company, there's what the share count will show is that there's massive more shares were sold than ever existed.

Greg McCabe 00:41:52 Yeah. To give you context. We had 165 million issued authorized shares out there. I took all of my data that I had, and I turned it over to an actuarial list. And I said, I want you to review my data, and I want you to tell me in in your best insight, what is the actual share count? Out in the wild, in every broker dealers accounts. He came back and said, I will bet my career that there is over 1 billion shares out in the wild. So if you think about that, that's a billion shares that are sold naked. There's not enough.

Multiple Speakers 00:42:31 Shares.

Greg McCabe 00:42:31 It's a mathematical impossibility to sell a billion shares of a company that only has authorized 165 million. If you are a regulator in charge of of taking care of the markets and that comes out public. That's going to be pretty embarrassing. It either means that you're complicit or you're incompetent, and neither one is a good look. And both of them, they're going to try their best to cover up.

Lara Logan 00:42:51 Okay, so this is it. This is the heart of everything right here.

Multiple Speakers 00:42:55 Absolutely.

Lara Logan 00:42:56 This is the biggest thing of all. This is the absolute explosive headline, right? I mean, that you have if that is the case, that you have over a billion counterfeit shares, because what that does is it exposes that the regulator is not only are they not doing their job, but for this to happen on this scale to your company, you know, it's not only happening to your company, then it means that the entire process is rigged.

Multiple Speakers 00:43:23 That's right.

Greg McCabe 00:43:24 It means that we are not an outlier.

Greg McCabe 00:43:28 We are the tip of the iceberg. It means that there are hundreds of other companies that are suffering from this. And I told you before about President Trump and Elon Musk's company. Yeah, you've heard about GameStop and AMC. You have to know that this is business as usual. They do it. They've been doing this so long they don't even think it's wrong anymore. They think it's normal market mechanics when it's nothing more than theft.

Lara Logan 00:43:49 So for people to understand really what happened is when when you decided to create next bridge hydrocarbons and stop trading as mmt LP trade that you had not authorized in the first place, but had been going on for, you know, over a year at that, just over the year at that point. Correct. When you decided to do that, all these naked short sellers and short sellers were caught with their pants down.

Multiple Speakers 00:44:12 Yeah.

Greg McCabe 00:44:13 Well, the way I kind of describe it is we did something that hasn't been done before. If you're getting naked shorted and you continue to thrive, they just keep playing the game with you and keep running you up and running you down.

Greg McCabe 00:44:26 If you fail, like many companies have, you go bankrupt and you've in effect buried the body. We did something nobody's done before, which is we went private. And the very act of going private to get away from this madness and this theft and this corruption, the very act of going private is what we've now called our Pompeii moment. We have apparently frozen this in time. The truth is out there and you can't go to the market and manipulate it. If you wanted to complain about Donald Trump's company, they could go this afternoon and hide their problems with take some money and some effort. But they could do it. They can't hide their problems with us. And that's why I got out of this nonsense at the height of Covid, because the short attack, I missed that short attack. This is exponentially worse. And I'm not even publicly traded. They need me to go away. They need my shareholders.

Lara Logan 00:45:13 I need your company to go bankrupt.

Greg McCabe 00:45:15 If we go bankrupt. They buried the body and they can move on.

Greg McCabe 00:45:18 And I'm sure that the regulators will say things like, well, you know, in order to protect the market, we just had to have this happen. But we'll fix it moving forward. It's like, no you won't. No you cannot.

Multiple Speakers 00:45:29 No.

Greg McCabe 00:45:30 This cannot be solved by not having accountability for the theft. At some point somebody's got to be held accountable.

Lara Logan 00:45:36 That's like saying to a serial killer, you didn't dispose of this body properly. And they were like, okay, we'll we'll make sure that we get rid of all the evidence going forward.

Multiple Speakers 00:45:43 Exactly.

Lara Logan 00:45:44 Okay, but when you say frozen in time, I just want to make sure that people understand that what you're talking about is that mmt LP is frozen in time.

Multiple Speakers 00:45:52 Yes.

Lara Logan 00:45:53 Exactly. How you know how much a short selling and naked short selling. How many counterfeit shares were created. That evidence is just frozen in time. Because when it because when it became next hydrocarbons a private company. Because your private company is still alive and trading.

Lara Logan 00:46:10 That's right. If you went into bankruptcy, everything we just ceased to exist would just be erased.

Multiple Speakers 00:46:15 Right? Right. That's right.

Lara Logan 00:46:16 And then none of the short sellers or the naked short sellers or the or the regulators who haven't done their jobs or who are perhaps colluding with brokers and and others, none of them have to worry about it.

Multiple Speakers 00:46:27 That's right.

Lara Logan 00:46:28 Because it's all gone away. So that makes you a big problem?

Multiple Speakers 00:46:32 Absolutely not the case.

Greg McCabe 00:46:33 I've been a problem, and I've stayed mostly quiet other than some powers, because I wanted the process to work. I wanted to work it through. I had faith that eventually that America will get this right. But recently, some events have occurred that now have made me question my judgment. In May 28th, after three and a half years and a phenomenal amount of time and money and stress and headache, we finally got the S-1.

Multiple Speakers 00:46:58 What did the S-1?

Greg McCabe 00:46:59 The S-1 is the permission from the SEC to sell 40 million registered unrestricted shares. And those are the only thing.

Lara Logan 00:47:09 In.

Multiple Speakers 00:47:10 Which hydrocarbons.

Greg McCabe 00:47:11 And those shares that we just got permission to get are the only shares on planet Earth that can solve the problem for the for the broker dealers that took bets against my company.

Multiple Speakers 00:47:20 Okay. So for all.

Lara Logan 00:47:21 Those short sellers, right. Who said, oh no, we've been we're a victim of this halt.

Multiple Speakers 00:47:27 Yes.

Lara Logan 00:47:27 Because we can't settle our trades.

Multiple Speakers 00:47:29 Yes.

Lara Logan 00:47:29 So basically now after three and a half years, you have permission from the SEC to sell 40 million shares?

Multiple Speakers 00:47:37 Yes.

Lara Logan 00:47:37 And so now there's the opportunity for all those short sellers.

Multiple Speakers 00:47:41 That's right.

Lara Logan 00:47:41 To settle their debt.

Greg McCabe 00:47:42 Well, and just let me give you a little context. Most most S-1 take 3 to 6 months. There's one company Venture Global, out of Washington, DC. Great company. They wanted to go public. They filed an S-1 within 34 days. They were trading as a $50 billion market cap company. Now think about little small West Texas oil company who doesn't trade on any market or exchange.

Greg McCabe 00:48:07 It took us three and a half years and over 20 rounds of questions and comments. And I will say, in all fairness, those comments were most of them were ridiculous. They were absurd. They were clearly an attempt to obstruct our ability to to sell these shares. And you would ask yourself, why would the SEC not want you to sell shares? It's simple. It's proof that there's a massive imbalance. If there's if I can sell 40 million shares and you need a billion, then the the cover up is blown.

Multiple Speakers 00:48:36 So what.

Lara Logan 00:48:37 Do you mean by.

Multiple Speakers 00:48:38 That?

Greg McCabe 00:48:38 I mean that if all I can sell is 40 million shares and there's a demand for a billion, how can I satisfy a demand for a billion? So it would magnify all the shareholders who gave good, hard earned money to buy. My shares are still without shares. The 40 million shares that I have to sell satisfy those bets now. Now go backwards a little bit. We talked about if you want to bet on a company, you're called a long investor.

Greg McCabe 00:49:01 If you bet on a company short you you are betting against their success. And if you destroy a company and they go bankrupt, that is the ultimate prize. You don't have to repay any borrow. That's assuming you did actual borrow. But if you naked short of destroying a company is fabulously, fabulously profitable. We did something that nobody's done. We went private and we stayed alive. And we spent three and a half years to get an S-1 approved. They are officially approved. And now it's time for everybody who made a bet against me. Which, by the way, I could care less. You can bet against me all you want, but it's time to settle your bet, and they have made the decision that they don't want to settle their bet. We like getting outsized returns when we destroy companies, but if you actually survive and live to fight another day, we want to press the we want to get rid of the buy button. We want to do a U3 halt. We want to have the door magically open up to the SEC.

Greg McCabe 00:49:53 It's just unbelievably disgusting.

Lara Logan 00:49:56 Okay, but you got it now.

Multiple Speakers 00:49:57 You got.

Lara Logan 00:49:58 The permission. After three and a half years, when did you get it?

Greg McCabe 00:50:00 May 28th of this year.

Multiple Speakers 00:50:02 We got.

Lara Logan 00:50:02 It. And how's it going?

Greg McCabe 00:50:04 terrible. Not one single person has reached out to settle their bets. We even had our investment banker, Roth Capital, reach out to every broker dealer we knew and say, just letting you know we have these shares available. Nobody reached out, so we thought, well, there's we're going to have to make some type of move to bring this to the spotlight. So in an effort to reward our shareholders, we told every shareholder we're going to give you a one for 30 dividend. So if you have 30 shares in my company we're going to give you off of our register. One additional share. Obviously if you have 300, you'll get ten and so on. So we did this dividend, but we knew certain companies like TradeStation for example, do not have enough shares originally for their shareholders.

Greg McCabe 00:50:48 So the question is what are they going to do. They're faced with three choices. Either come to next bridge and buy shares, ignore next bridge or do the worst thing that could possibly do counterfeit next bridge shares. And now we have official proof that companies have counterfeited our shares instead of buying from us. And that's why I'm here talking today. If I can go through a three and a half year process to get an S-1 approved to satisfy the need of those people that bet against me, and they still are choosing not to settle their bet, then I've got to tell my story.

Lara Logan 00:51:21 It's quite extraordinary and of course, quite complicated. But for just for the audience, can you just explain? It's is it too simplistic to say it sounds like the place where all the corruption happens is that the brokers know.

Greg McCabe 00:51:37 The way I see the brokers, the brokers are, in effect, the casino. The short sellers are invested, are making a bet against me.

Multiple Speakers 00:51:46 And the.

Lara Logan 00:51:47 Pros that individual investors or hedge funds.

Multiple Speakers 00:51:49 Or both.

Greg McCabe 00:51:50 I. Hedge funds are prolific Shorter's and I think they have mechanisms to do naked shorting. So let's just say for hedge funds right now made massive bets against me. So for broker dealers like TradeStation to work so hard not to settle the bet is is baffling to me. It's like you didn't make the bet. Mr. Broker Dealer, you took the bet and you have somebody to to.

Multiple Speakers 00:52:14 To hold to account.

Greg McCabe 00:52:15 Yeah that's right. There is a counterparty to every bet against me. And when you trace it, you will find a short company that sold way too many shares to try to destroy me. It is time for them to settle their bet. And they don't want to. I sent a letter to David Woodcock, who's the new head of enforcement. He came on at the SEC in May, and I wrote a very kind letter to him saying, you did not create this problem. You have a chance to fix it. But these people are counterfeiting my shares. And I said, I realize it is far easier and far more profitable to just create fake shares, but I don't see how that's anything short of theft.

Greg McCabe 00:52:50 He still has not called me back yet.

Lara Logan 00:52:52 When did you send that letter?

Greg McCabe 00:52:54 I sent that back three weeks ago.

Lara Logan 00:52:56 And how long has he been in the job?

Multiple Speakers 00:52:58 Meh.

Greg McCabe 00:52:58 But just to be clear, I also carbon copied all three of the commissioners. I've sent personal letters to the commissioners. In May of this year, I had a shareholder going to DC who was able to secure a private meeting with Hester Pierce, who was one of the commissioners of the SEC. And I said, would you please do me a favor and hand-deliver this letter to to Commissioner Pierce, of which was done, and I've yet to hear from her. It was a simple plea. I've said the same message from day one. Next, bridge wants to be a part of a solution that is fair to everyone that does as little damage as possible to the American markets because we we see no benefit in creating damage to the markets. But we also see no benefit letting the thieves keep their theft. So please let us be a part of the dialogue and they continue to ignore me.

Greg McCabe 00:53:43 And I think my gut instinct is if you ignore a problem long enough and it goes away, it's a brilliant play. But if you ignore a problem for three and a half years and the truth comes out, you're going to look absolutely terrible, and they do not want to sit down at the table to me, because the first question I'm going to have to ask them is, how can I be a part of a solution when I don't know the magnitude of the problem? They don't want me to know.

Lara Logan 00:54:06 The SEC is sitting on this data. Finra is sitting on this data. They know how many shares there were in MMT at the time that they issued the Holton trading.

Greg McCabe 00:54:17 I would say it's a virtual impossibility. They do not know that data. I can't obviously prove it, but if they don't know it, they've not done a very good job of investigating the last four and a half years. There's an impossibility in the real world terms that they don't know the magnitude of the problem.

Lara Logan 00:54:34 Now, of course, when you talk to the digital trading side of it, one of the ways that companies get around this right is that they create these fake shares, and then they put them offshore.

Lara Logan 00:54:43 Yes. And then they say, oh, well, you know, the SEC says, well, we don't have any jurisdiction. Or Finra says, you know, our jurisdiction and it only extends to the United States borders. Right. We don't know what what people are doing offshore. That's not our business.

Multiple Speakers 00:54:56 Right.

Greg McCabe 00:54:57 Well, it's funny you bring that up because with the first time I took over as the chairman and I was reading this nonsense out of Finra, I told my my group, I said, we can't stay quiet if we stay quiet. It's as if we're approving their data set. Let's be courteous and let's be professional. But let's point out the mistakes. So the first thing I did is Finra said the problem was not significant at all. There was only 2.65 million. Of course, I've got an actuarial list. Who tells me it's 2 billion, but it's only 2.65 million. And I said, that can't be. I've had one Canadian firm, Anson Funds, out of Toronto, who approached me to purchase 10 million shares.

Greg McCabe 00:55:37 So you have to understand how surprised I.

Multiple Speakers 00:55:39 Was.

Greg McCabe 00:55:40 That they said it's only 2.65. So we made a press release about it. They said something again. I made another press release about it on their third attempt to answer this away. They finally said it's only 2.65 million shares, but it's only under American companies under our purview. But then that's when they crossed the line with me. Then they said, but it's still not a significant problem. And that's when I said, I have put out another PR and I said, how could you possibly say it's not a significant problem when you just admitted you did not know the full universe of the problem? And that's a week later when I got with a subpoena.

Lara Logan 00:56:15 So these documents will be available on the website for anyone who's interested in in looking them up. one thing, you know, you made that point about, okay, for three and a half years. They have not answered this problem, but Atkins hasn't been head of the SEC for all that time.

Lara Logan 00:56:31 His predecessor was Gary Gensler. Right, right. And when, when did Atkins come in?

Greg McCabe 00:56:36 Okay, well, Atkins came in in April of 2025. So remember, all of this was occurring back in December of 2022 underneath Gary Gensler watch. And I'm going to tell you that we all have that friend out there that we know. That's really a good liar. Gary Gensler is not that guy. He lied to Congress. So obvious and so overt. It was disgusting. And I'd be happy to tell you about it. If you want.

Multiple Speakers 00:56:59 To know the details, I would love to know the details.

Lara Logan 00:57:01 Because Gary Gaines, that wasn't he the CFO for the Clinton campaign?

Greg McCabe 00:57:06 I don't know, I think so, but I don't know for sure. I'm not a very political person. So if we go on those tangents, I won't give you good answers.

Lara Logan 00:57:13 Yeah. I think there's been I know an Andy Steele has done, has done some significant reporting on this, I believe, according to Ann's reporting, that he was also, part of the apparatus that paid for the Steele dossier, which was the fake Steele dossier that was designed to overthrow a lawfully elected president.

Greg McCabe 00:57:31 Well, those are data points I'm not familiar with. And by the way, a lot of people really, really want to make this a political issue. But I'm here to tell you it is not a political issue. It is a criminal issue. And the the criminal enterprise.

Multiple Speakers 00:57:44 Is more than can be both great.

Greg McCabe 00:57:45 Well, in the criminal enterprise is more than happy to steal from both sides of the aisle. If ever there was a single issue that could bring both parties together, it is this theft from veterans, senior citizens, and hard working Americans that put their faith in the American economy.

Lara Logan 00:57:58 You mean like.

Multiple Speakers 00:57:59 Fraud? Absolutely. Fraud. Would you think fraud might bring people together? Political.

Greg McCabe 00:58:03 And we finally found common ground. But back to Mr. Gensler. He was being interviewed in 2023 by Senator Crapo from Idaho, and he was asked some questions. And I had to rewatch it before this interview. And it was absolutely painful to watch, to see every single answer, every single question met with a non-answer.

Greg McCabe 00:58:25 It was embarrassing. But the worst part about it was, he said, specifically in front of all of Congress under penalty of perjury, that no, no, this was all Finra who did the U3 halt. They did not consult us. We didn't know anything about it. He was really quick, clear, to make sure there was separation from the SEC and Fenner's activities.

Multiple Speakers 00:58:45 The U3 whole.

Lara Logan 00:58:46 Run.

Multiple Speakers 00:58:46 To the bus. He threw.

Greg McCabe 00:58:47 Finn around the bus and.

Multiple Speakers 00:58:48 It.

Greg McCabe 00:58:48 Was definitely calculated. I know he had been practiced and rehearsed it, so that was really interesting that he would take that position, because not too many months ago, one of my members of my MMT LP Army reached out with me with something, and I read it and it was it was a blockbuster. They had put in a FOIA request, which is Freedom of Information Act, which is basically telling the government, you can't hide stuff for the people that you work for a FOIA request saying, please give me all of the communications between Finra and the SEC commissioners for a single one week period.

Greg McCabe 00:59:24 That one week period was the week leading up to the U3 halt and the. And there was one key word that had to be in the request. The key word was MMT, LP, not something very common that would show up in other requests. It only refers to us. And they got a rejection not too long ago and they sent it to me. And that rejection said your request is too voluminous. There are over 13,000 pages of responsive documents to request. And then I just have to think of Gensler up in.

Multiple Speakers 00:59:56 Front of Mike Crapo saying.

Greg McCabe 00:59:58 Nope, it's all Finra. We didn't have anything to do with it.

Lara Logan 01:00:01 So yeah, we did. Besides those 13,000.

Multiple Speakers 01:00:04 Other than that, messages that went.

Lara Logan 01:00:06 Back.

Multiple Speakers 01:00:07 And forth.

Lara Logan 01:00:07 Discussing it.

Multiple Speakers 01:00:08 Okay.

Lara Logan 01:00:09 Outside of that, we had nothing to do with it.

Greg McCabe 01:00:11 Oh, and then it wasn't a couple of weeks later that was in front of the Senate. He goes in front of Congress and Ralph Norman asked him point blank, What is the share count? I don't know, and he said, are you telling me you don't know the share count? And he said, well, I think it's public record.

Greg McCabe 01:00:26 And when he said that, I thought, oh my gosh, you're neck deep in this and you're not good at keeping the story straight. I was embarrassed for Gary Gensler.

Multiple Speakers 01:00:34 Because.

Lara Logan 01:00:34 It's not public record.

Greg McCabe 01:00:36 It is. He knew exactly what the question was. We know 165 million shares were authorized, and he knew what we were asking. How many shares were in the wild? Is it 500 million? Is it a billion? Is it only 2.65 million? Like Fenner said. And he said, I think it's public record. So let's just say if Gary Gensler was ever a front man for me, I would fire him. He did not do a good job. But but let's go back to to Paul Atkins for just a moment. So I've sent letters.

Lara Logan 01:01:01 So that's Gary Gaines, the success of people. So he's in charge of the SEC?

Greg McCabe 01:01:05 Yes. And I'm going to tell you, nobody in the world was more excited when he was coming into office than me because I thought in my heart and in my mind, there's absolutely no way he would inherit Gary Gensler nightmare.

Greg McCabe 01:01:18 I mean, this was a fiasco, and we kept waiting day after day. And I remember it was April of 2025. We came on November of 2025. He does an interview on Fox Business with Charles Payne, which, by the way, the MMT LP Army is a huge fan of Charles Payne. He's done a great job of keeping the spotlight on this data. And, Charles asked him specifically, and I don't know for sure, but I think it might have caught Paul Atkins off guard. And his answer was, well, I've only been on the job six months, and rest assured, we're going to take care of retail investors. I thought that was an almost acceptable answer, but it's been over ten months and he hasn't said a thing about it. So I got to say, between all the data points I have, the window of plausible deniability is rapidly closing for Paul Atkins. But I still, naively, maybe have hope that he will step up and do the right thing.

Lara Logan 01:02:14 So could you get a meeting with him?

Multiple Speakers 01:02:16 Is that something?

Greg McCabe 01:02:17 You sent a letter to him asking for a meeting with him or all the commissioners.

Greg McCabe 01:02:20 But more importantly, when I sent a letter to David Woodcock about the the counterfeit shares, I made.

Multiple Speakers 01:02:26 Sure.

Greg McCabe 01:02:27 He's the new head of enforcement. That came on in May of this year of the SEC telling him specifically, I have definitive proof of counterfeit shares. I made the point to counterfeit. I mean, to reach all carbon copy, all of the other commissioners to make sure they know that I've made a claim that I have proof of counterfeiting, and I've yet to hear back from anyone. It is the strangest thing. The personal pleas, the emails, the letters. Nothing there.

Lara Logan 01:02:54 Just how many times have you requested a meeting?

Greg McCabe 01:02:57 If you count the David Woodcock letter, I'm now up to eight separate times of asking for a meeting, and all eight have been met with silence.

Lara Logan 01:03:05 They just.

Multiple Speakers 01:03:05 Ignore you? Yes.

Greg McCabe 01:03:06 And which is a great time to talk about another data point.

Multiple Speakers 01:03:09 You just.

Lara Logan 01:03:10 It's just remarkable though I know that frustration.

Multiple Speakers 01:03:13 Oh.

Greg McCabe 01:03:13 It's mind numbing, but I had some people say, well, you just don't call up the SEC and have a meeting.

Greg McCabe 01:03:21 That's not the way it works. I said, oh, really? That's funny.

Multiple Speakers 01:03:24 Because.

Greg McCabe 01:03:24 December of last year, we got a FOIA request and it is the smoking gun of all smoking guns. It was a FOIA request that showed communications between a financial information forum, which is known as FIF, and FIF is a lobbyist group for broker dealers. Howard Meyerson, who's the managing director, wrote a letter to David Thiel and others who did. David Sawtelle is the head of trading and markets at the time of the SEC, and David Salcido said, well, please tell me what you're writing about. He writes back a 7 or 8 bullet points in which he demonstrably lies about something that he knows no facts about. Then he confesses to a share imbalance that we've been screaming about from day one, and he confesses about his broker. Dealers don't have enough shares to satisfy my S1, but then he does. What is unbelievably despicable is he tortious interferes in my company that I'm running by saying, Dear Mr. Saul Thiel, either don't approve his S1 or do it in a way that will cover up the share imbalance.

Greg McCabe 01:04:32 And of course, I'm paraphrasing, but the point was.

Lara Logan 01:04:35 Can you tell us what he actually said?

Greg McCabe 01:04:37 I there is a piece of paper that, that has it, and I'd be happy to provide it to you, but what he said was we do not enough have enough shares. Broker dealers do not have enough shares to satisfy this S1. We we suggest you do not approve it. But if you do approve it, approve it in a manner where we don't have to turn our shares over to the transfer agent. And that was the very foundation of the S1 in the first place. Anyone who moved their shares to the transfer agent would be the beneficiaries of shares in a new company. So it was it was troubling.

Lara Logan 01:05:10 I just want to make sure I understand this properly. You have a lobby group that represents.

Multiple Speakers 01:05:15 Who.

Greg McCabe 01:05:16 Broker dealers, large financial institutions, primarily broker dealers.

Lara Logan 01:05:19 And they're communicating with the SEC with the head of markets.

Multiple Speakers 01:05:24 Yeah, yeah.

Greg McCabe 01:05:25 Head of trading and markets for the SEC.

Lara Logan 01:05:27 And they're they're saying don't approve this S-1 for this company because why.

Greg McCabe 01:05:33 But but because it will show their share imbalance. They don't want that to become public record of the magnitude of their share imbalance.

Lara Logan 01:05:41 But how is how is that in any way shape or form appropriate?

Greg McCabe 01:05:44 It's absolutely not appropriate. But here's what's even less appropriate is David Salthill took a private meeting with this guy, so here I am.

Lara Logan 01:05:53 How do you know he took a private meeting?

Greg McCabe 01:05:54 Because it's in the FOIA data. It says, thank you for the meeting, I appreciate that. And less than 60 days later, we get hit with a demand to withdraw our S-1 right after this.

Lara Logan 01:06:05 So you have members of the SEC are quite happy to meet with lobbyists. But they won't meet.

Multiple Speakers 01:06:10 They will.

Greg McCabe 01:06:10 Not meet with.

Multiple Speakers 01:06:11 Me.

Lara Logan 01:06:11 With the owners of company.

Greg McCabe 01:06:12 But I'll say it's even worse than that. If you were David Saltillo and you're head of trading, your markets and your job description, your number one congressional mandate is protect retail investors.

Greg McCabe 01:06:23 If you get a phone call like that or an email like that, there's only one right thing for you to do. And that's to get in touch with me and the management of Next Bridge and say, we have a problem. We need to talk about it. He did the exact opposite. He not only did not communicate with me, but he apparently complied with their wish.

Lara Logan 01:06:40 Because he then, you know, denied the S-1.

Multiple Speakers 01:06:45 That's right.

Lara Logan 01:06:45 But you kept on fighting and finally you got. Was he the one who ultimately approved it?

Greg McCabe 01:06:49 No, no. So that was a I had two S-1 going simultaneously. And I'm telling you, everybody likes to say, this story is so complicated, and it truly is. I know a lot of data points that confuse the story. The reality is they changed the rules mid-game and we're still screaming about it. So every time somebody tries to make this more complicated, I want to. I always want to bring it back to its simplest form.

Lara Logan 01:07:12 Well, in its simplest form, you are very simply asking the SEC to tell you how many shares of your company were out there when they halted trading in MMT, LP.

Greg McCabe 01:07:24 That's absolutely as simple as it gets.

Multiple Speakers 01:07:26 Just tell me, the.

Lara Logan 01:07:27 President, to weigh in on that. You've been to members of Congress, your army, the CLB Army has been out there talking. I know, and Vance Steele has been reporting on this, and Charles Payne has been reporting and someone on X beard vet.

Multiple Speakers 01:07:41 The bearded vet, the bearded vet.

Greg McCabe 01:07:42 Got to visit with him. His name is Sean George. Super nice.

Multiple Speakers 01:07:46 Guy.

Lara Logan 01:07:46 He's done a lot of work on this.

Multiple Speakers 01:07:47 He is. He is a.

Greg McCabe 01:07:48 Great guy and he's an absolute loyal advocate for veterans.

Lara Logan 01:07:52 Now, part of his interest is the fact that there are so many veterans.

Multiple Speakers 01:07:55 Who.

Lara Logan 01:07:55 Are among the shareholders. Right. Is it is it 1400, 1400 or something like that?

Greg McCabe 01:08:00 I don't know what our total is. We know we're we're familiar with it, at least that many. But I think it could be much larger than that.

Lara Logan 01:08:06 How did so many veterans get caught up in this?

Greg McCabe 01:08:09 It was every.

Greg McCabe 01:08:11 Veterans worked very hard and they don't get paid very much. So they were looking for something that could have a positive impact on their retirement account. And I think oftentimes the powers that be like to hold that against people. Oh, you were just in this for a short squeeze. Well, first off, it's none of your business how my investors make their decisions on investing. And second off, it's not illegal to invest in something that you think is out of balance. So it's a classic case of trying to demonize the victims. And it's so despicable. It happens over and over and over again.

Lara Logan 01:08:41 So you mean this would be this would be investors who looked at this, who saw the public notices. Right. The corporate notice that they knew that trading was going to end and that there would be a rush on shares because short sellers would have to settle. Yes, before trading ended. And so they were holding on to their shares, getting ready to sell them.

Greg McCabe 01:09:02 For the last two days. And by the way, I don't know for a fact, but I'm saying that's the narrative that they were in it for a short squeeze to sell the last two days.

Greg McCabe 01:09:10 Right? To which I.

Lara Logan 01:09:11 Say bye bye, closing it by issuing that halt and closing it early. The Finra prevented those shareholders from selling their shares.

Greg McCabe 01:09:19 Absolutely. And they it was to the singular detriment of shareholders who who placed their long bets. It was to the singular benefit of those that pay short bets to try to destroy us. So it's difficult to say. Well, the U3 halt hurt both people know. If there's only one thing that you leave with this. The U3 halt was singularly helpful to people that were gaming the system.

Lara Logan 01:09:45 So one of the things I've learned over the years is that you can tell a lot about how significant what you're doing is by the amount of resources that they pour into stopping you.

Greg McCabe 01:09:56 Absolutely. That's a great point.

Lara Logan 01:09:58 So so how how what is the scale and breadth of the resources they've applied to getting you to take a knee and give up in surrender here?

Greg McCabe 01:10:10 Well, if I had to point to the single most frustrating part was the three and a half years to get an approval for a simple S-1, there is going to be a very difficult time for any person at the SEC to sit across from you and explain why that was for the benefit of anyone other than.

Lara Logan 01:10:26 Keeping.

Greg McCabe 01:10:27 It. Yeah, it was costly. I will tell you that on one of the last calls I had with the SEC, I had 11 different experts on this call because it was so important. It was so overwhelming. And I'm talking about I had lawyers from big law firms, I had accountants and I had auditors trying to understand the absurdity of their request to go back and change two annual reports and six quarterly reports. When we got done with that call, we reconvened. And to a person, they all said, I have never seen this in my entire career. I have never seen the SEC proactively trying to stop an S-1 and actually making you change accounting to look falsely positive. Usually they complain about people making things.

Lara Logan 01:11:12 To positive.

Greg McCabe 01:11:12 Numbers. Exactly. We were told to change our accounting. I wrote a letter directly against the advice of my counsel. I wrote a letter to Carl Hiller, who was the guy spearheading all of the problems for the SEC with my accounting. And I asked him, closed it out by saying, you know, exactly how what damage this is doing to my shareholders and our opportunity costs.

Greg McCabe 01:11:35 Please tell me, who benefits from these changes that you're requesting us? And of course, he never responded.

Lara Logan 01:11:43 So they've tried to break you financially? Yes. By with all the lawyers and experts and accountants. I mean, that's got to be a hell of a bill.

Greg McCabe 01:11:52 Oh, it's it's mind numbing and it's very frustrating. But again, we decided to stay the course. We were going to let America get it right no matter how long it took. And now that we've got it in a position to get it right, they're choosing not to.

Lara Logan 01:12:04 Sow so millions of dollars. Would it be fair to say many millions.

Greg McCabe 01:12:08 Many millions of dollars.

Lara Logan 01:12:10 And and how else has it cost you?

Greg McCabe 01:12:12 Well, it's been a big burden on me to see the pain this has caused people. But here's, you know, you want to know how they do it, how they try to tear people down. They make you spend all this money on all this regulatory stuff. But then I told you that the harassment I'm dealing with is exponentially worse than back in Covid time.

Greg McCabe 01:12:31 They have done so many things that are just unconscionable. And they're starting. They started attacking my family. I'm going to say probably the worst thing, if I could tell you the single most despicable thing that the Wolfpack has done to me is they got Ahold of my daughter's email address, who works at a school. That school is where my wife taught for over 20 years. It's where all four of my kids graduated. But worse yet, my two grandchildren, two of my grandchildren go to this school. They found the list of every member of the faculty and wrote a letter to the entire faculty saying, your father in law is a criminal. We're coming after him. There's no place to hide. It was the most despicable thing. And again, I don't give a damn. You can say what you want to about me, but don't bring my family into it. That shows you the kind of cowards we're dealing with.

Lara Logan 01:13:19 How did the school react?

Greg McCabe 01:13:22 The school loves my wife. She's been a loyal teacher for a lot of years.

Greg McCabe 01:13:27 She's a legend around there. They love my daughter in law. They were very supportive. It was amazing. I was very proud to see the impact that my wife and my family has had on that school. So it was it was kind of comforting to see that. But but it doesn't change.

Lara Logan 01:13:42 The fact that they that they use that those tactics.

Greg McCabe 01:13:44 So I'm going to tell you this, anybody that has been on this attack on me and my family, I'm putting pictures of my house on the internet, threatening to burn my house down. Anybody who's trying.

Lara Logan 01:13:55 To kill.

Greg McCabe 01:13:55 You Threatened to kill me. Threatened for me to take a dirt nap. Anybody that's in that category, I paint you all with the same brush. You're all pathetic. You're all lifetime failures. And if you want a shot at a really good class action lawsuit, you need to sue your parents because they all that you were failed.

Lara Logan 01:14:15 So this was a school in Midland, Texas, by the way. I just want to say good shout out there for Texas.

Lara Logan 01:14:20 That's right. Because it's not everywhere in Texas. They fight back like that. So that's great. and also, you know, you you said someone, you've had death threats, someone told you to take a dirt nap. How did you respond to that?

Greg McCabe 01:14:33 Well, again, you know, at my age, death threats don't quite mean the same thing as when I was 30 or 40. You know, death threats just don't bother me. The dirt nap was kind of funny because I told my wife, I said, wow, I hadn't had a good night's sleep in ages. That sounds almost relaxing. So she didn't think that was funny.

Lara Logan 01:14:48 She didn't think that was funny. No, I'm not surprised. And also, she told me that, you know, you very often will get up in the middle of the night that you know that this is because, you know, a lot of people, when they hear something like this happening, it's easy to blame the company, right? Pump and dump.

Lara Logan 01:15:03 Right. That these these companies go on the over-the-counter exchange and they set up, they sell all these shares and then they go out of business and really, they've just stolen people's money. So it's easy to blame the the company. And the SEC did go after the CEOs of metamaterials and torchlight. Right. Yeah. unsuccessfully.

Greg McCabe 01:15:21 So far it's still unresolved. But what I would tell you is I have a very strong opinion about that. And I think John and George are going to win their case, but two CEOs. But what's troubling about it is the way the SEC has weaponized that to conflate two totally unrelated events. We were getting demands from Congress to say, please tell us why the U. Three halt happened in December of 2022. They end up filing a suit against John and George. And then we found out Pete Sessions, at least, was one congressman who got a phone call before a big PR, the SEC said. Pete, this is. It was a big pump and dump. We're following suits against the two CEOs.

Greg McCabe 01:16:00 They were filing a suit from activities that happened in June of 2021. A full 18 months before. But that very act of saying it was all John and George's fault. It's like brilliant red herring, but it doesn't work.

Lara Logan 01:16:13 Mining the water?

Greg McCabe 01:16:14 Exactly. But the people who know the facts say, what does that have to do with the 18th month later, U3 Holt. That's frozen the assets of 124,000 American investors. Nothing.

Lara Logan 01:16:26 Okay, I want to finish. What I was going to say about your wife. Is that is that for her? You know, seeing you go through all of this, seeing you up in the middle of the night. I mean, while some people, you know, it's easy to accuse the company, but actually, in this case, you as the company, you're, you're fighting every day.

Greg McCabe 01:16:43 Every day from the day I've taken over, I don't do oil and gas as much as I used to, because this takes up all of my time. I spend seven days a week, I spend holidays, I.

Greg McCabe 01:16:53 I know the impact it's having on my family and on my wife, and I hate it, but there's just not going to be a chance for me to stop this fight. When you see if you could see some of the letters I received from my shareholders telling how terrible this was, I'll never stop fighting. I took over in January of 2024 as the unpaid CEO. I worked seven days a week. I have never once reimbursed myself a penny. So anybody who tries to cloud the issue, if this was a a big financial grab. It's like you're just a liar.

Lara Logan 01:17:21 You're the unpaid CEO. You're not even.

Greg McCabe 01:17:23 Kidding. I've never taken a penny from this company and I never take a day off. Ever.

Lara Logan 01:17:28 So has that been hard on you financially?

Greg McCabe 01:17:31 Oh, absolutely. It's it's put a strain on. But I will tell you this, I, I live in Midland, Texas. It's the heart of the Permian Basin. price oil is $100 a barrel. And I have some very loyal investors.

Greg McCabe 01:17:42 So anybody who thinks that they're going to outwit me and bankrupt me, they're sadly mistaken.

Lara Logan 01:17:47 Okay. And just so I understand, just go. One thing to clarify on the U3 hold, which was issued by Finra, when Finra issued the, the U3 halt and froze those assets, they remain permanently frozen.

Greg McCabe 01:18:04 Yes. Yeah. Those assets. There is zero liquidity. We're we are a non trading company. So there have been a lot of people who've reached out to me pleading with me to put the, the stock back on the market because they're saying we need the ability to sell some of these shares. And I've had to say I'm very, very sorry about the lack of liquidity. I recognize your pain, but there's an impossibility as long as I'm chairman and CEO, that I will ever go back to the public markets without a full accounting of of my shareholder imbalance, why would I possibly go back to the very problem that got me here? Why would I spend three and a half years and millions of dollars to go right back into the same nightmare?

Lara Logan 01:18:43 And what do how do people react to that?

Greg McCabe 01:18:46 They're very disappointed.

Greg McCabe 01:18:47 But you would be amazed at how supportive these people are. These people have been treated very poorly and I feel very bad for them, but they've been amazingly supportive. There's a handful of critics that I have, and I can just tell they're bought and paid for. They're compromised. They're not true shareholders because they never once find anything positive. If whatever I do, they find a way to spin it as something negative. But the true loyal shareholders.

Lara Logan 01:19:11 They all say the same thing.

Greg McCabe 01:19:12 Oh, they say the same thing.

Lara Logan 01:19:14 And it's really recycled, those talking points.

Greg McCabe 01:19:16 It's really kind of embarrassing, I must say. But that's what they get paid for. Let them do it. I don't care, but what. What drives me is the letters of support I get from shareholders. I've met some of the absolute nicest people in the world that I never would have met. I told somebody the other day that the definition of irony is, I wouldn't wish this upon my worst enemy, but I've met some fantastic people and I met him from all over the world.

Lara Logan 01:19:40 So what? Us? Is there a letter that stands out, or is there something you can think of or remember that particularly touched you or that stayed with you in some way?

Greg McCabe 01:19:48 Well, there's one thing in particular that was kind of nice. one of the shareholders who I've come to know and we communicate with on his own, wrote a letter to my wife, and it was so impactful. And he was so thankful to her because she he knows what sacrifice she's had to make for me to fight this fight. And I thought, wow, that's a class act right there. And it really did. And Melissa wrote him a very nice letter back. And and she confirmed that everything he was saying was correct, that I do one thing. I work for my shareholders.

Lara Logan 01:20:21 Well, I have noticed I've seen it out there. People can, can search MMT, NLP, they can see the activities of the army, they can amplify their voices and share. I mean, really, so if you get this accounting from the SEC, if they, if they were to, if a miracle occurred and and they would provide you with that data, what would you then do with it?

Greg McCabe 01:20:44 I still go back to what I've said over and over again.

Greg McCabe 01:20:47 I'm happy. I need 24 hours notice. I'll be in Washington, D.C., and I want to sit down with all the players that are impacted by this, and my goal is not to win some battle. My goal is to find common ground that is fair to everyone. The way it currently stands, it is not fair. It is a terrible injustice to 124,000 people. We have to fix that. But how can I possibly fix it until I know the magnitude of the problem?

Lara Logan 01:21:12 Okay, so but let's just say, you know the magnitude of the problem and it is as big as you think it is. It's over a billion shares out there. So all these counterfeit shares that have been issued, what are the remedies like. How can this be resolved?

Greg McCabe 01:21:24 Well, first off, I'm not a regulator. That is not my background. I do think that I've had well over 40 years in negotiations of a wide variety of things, and I think I could sit down and come up with a solution that would be fair to everyone.

Greg McCabe 01:21:37 That's why I keep sending the same message. I don't have the exact answer you need, but what I do say is it will never get resolved until I get a seat at the table. And that's all I'm asking.

Lara Logan 01:21:47 So I understand, but I'm trying to I'm trying to get a sense of what is what what could resolution be because and how does that affect the shareholders? How does that help them?

Greg McCabe 01:21:57 Okay. The resolution that most of my shareholders want is something that I don't think will ever occur, and that is to get back two days of trading. They would have never. You three halted this. If two days of trading was a solution, I think it would create such chaos in the markets, and it would encourage other companies to do it, that it would actually create damage. And that's not my goal. So the resolution would be some kind of form of a financial compensation for the freezing of their assets, for the selling of them, of, of synthetic shares. And now recently, the new edition of the dividend Shares, you've created counterfeit shares.

Greg McCabe 01:22:32 There needs to be resolution on that. So it needs to be basically a mathematical calculation of how we can get from point A to point B and let all parties walk away. Again, I've told you from the outset I'm not a crusader. It's not my goal to change the markets. It's my goal to to fight for my shareholders and do some do something that's just and fair.

Lara Logan 01:22:52 Well, you might be able to do both.

Greg McCabe 01:22:53 Well that's true. I'm going to tell you I'm going to speak out more and more. You're my coming out party. This is my first time to speak. But you're not going to be my last time to speak. I've got some other people lined up that I'm going to speak to because this story has to be told. I finally reached the limit, as somebody said to me the other day says, wow, you do actually have a limit. So, so.

Lara Logan 01:23:14 Well, okay. So Greg, about this resolution because this is very important. So, so a lot of those people want, you know, that two days of trading, but not everybody was was going to sell their shares.

Lara Logan 01:23:26 Right. There were people who had those preferred shares that. So if you, for example, if you sold next fridge hydrocarbons, would those shareholders then be compensated. Would they find would they finally get some money.

Greg McCabe 01:23:39 Well, first off, you're making an assumption that nobody. Some people wouldn't sell shares. We will never know that, because we will never know how bad the imbalance was and how high that price could have run. If this is as bad as I think it is. There were there were reports of of shares closing out well over $1,000 a share. I've heard some reports up to $4,000 a share that were being closed out before the U3 halt happened. So I don't care how much you love me or my company or my assets, if the price got up to $4,000, you're selling so, so well. Yeah, so so that's kind of my point. You're you're asking me to to speculate on something that is impossible because I can't have that key data point. What would have happened had we had the two days? But we need to stop talking about the two days when I still hear shareholders saying that.

Greg McCabe 01:24:26 I just say, you can dream all you want. That will not happen. It's in. Actually, I would say I would love to see it happen. Just out of curiosity, that chaos would call. But as a loyal American, I don't see that as a good value proposition to help this situation.

Lara Logan 01:24:41 Okay, so and if there was some kind of financial compensation, who would be responsible for that? Who would be paying?

Greg McCabe 01:24:47 Well, again, not being a regulator, I don't know. But if you asked me my opinion, I would say continue to pull the string and see where the person was who made a bet against me. Like, let's just say Anson funds. I know for a fact Anson funds out of Toronto, a foreign country dumped 10 million shares of my stock without having to borrow. You might wonder how I know they didn't have a borrow because they told me they had no cost to borrow. If you have no cost to borrow, you didn't have a borrow. It's that simple.

Lara Logan 01:25:15 So they created.

Greg McCabe 01:25:16 They created 10 million fake shares. They dumped them on Americans who thought they bought them. So what I would say is you've got to trace it to the the instigator of the problem. And that is hedge funds and short sellers that did everything in their power to destroy me. And I'm sorry your bet didn't work out. I'm still standing. I'm not going anywhere. Settle your bet.

Lara Logan 01:25:35 So that's very interesting because there are actually it doesn't take much because these are financial transactions. So the digital record exists.

Greg McCabe 01:25:42 Absolutely. That's the Pompeii moment too. That's what I love most about it is every broker dealer has been sent a notices to not destroy any evidence. They're being sued by metamaterials, by the way, because they filed for bankruptcy in August of 2024. And they've hired an expert in market manipulation to go after them to say you were a party to this bankruptcy. So the data is out there. We're gathering it slowly but surely. Anybody who thinks that this problem is going away is sadly mistaken.

Lara Logan 01:26:10 Well, there's another point that's curious, which is in the case that the SEC brought against the CEO of metamaterials, the Canadian company, and torchlight, John Burda. the judge has ordered a stay. And so for 18 months, when they were on the verge of having discovery for 18 months, that case hasn't moved. Yes, that's and that's a judge in Texas, by the way. Shame on you, judge.

Greg McCabe 01:26:35 I know it very disappointing. I asked one of the attorneys involved and I said said, is this common? He said, absolutely not. This is a pretty simple motion to dismiss. I cannot imagine that this drug on this long. And John followed up by asking, is it possible that all the chaos around this could have caused the judge to delay? Do you think it's possible that that could impact it? Because in my wildest dreams, I never would have said yes. But this has been so crazy. It's possible that he's just waiting to see how some of this plays out.

Greg McCabe 01:27:05 We'll never know. The judge won't tell us, but.

Lara Logan 01:27:07 They brought it in Southern District of New York. Right. And then they kicked it.

Greg McCabe 01:27:10 Yes. Kicked it to Texas.

Lara Logan 01:27:12 Kicked it to Texas. So that I mean that to the layman. Sounds like this judge didn't want anything to do with it. Oh, he's like, oh no, no, I don't want this. And so he he flicked that bugger off for the guy to the judge in Texas. And and all he's done is put a stay on it. So for 18 months it hasn't moved. That's right. And that's the he hasn't ruled on the on the motion to dismiss. So there's so there's a lot of layers to corruption here. But this is really simple. At the end of the day, there are well over 120,000 124,000 shareholders. Typically people report 65,000. But you're confident in that number?

Greg McCabe 01:27:49 Well, let me tell you where that came from. While back, we decided to send out a notice to all of our shareholders, and we reached out to brokerage, which is a financial services provider, and we asked them to give us a quote for this mail out.

Greg McCabe 01:28:00 And when we got the quote back, it said 124,000. And to me, that was an amazing red flag. We've been saying a lot of people have been saying 65,000. I never say 65,000. I say tens of thousands. Now, from this day forward, I'm saying 124,000. They wouldn't have given us a quote for 124,000 were it not in their system. So.

Lara Logan 01:28:22 So how would they know?

Greg McCabe 01:28:24 Well, they're the ones in charge of the mail outs. So whenever any company does like an annual report, they contract.

Lara Logan 01:28:30 Company wide.

Greg McCabe 01:28:31 Company wide. They say how many shares are out there? So. And maybe I'm wrong, but the fact is I don't think it's 65,000. I think it's more. And the reason I think it's more is there was so much shorting that last week of MMT, LP, it could have gone, it could have easily doubled.

Lara Logan 01:28:46 Well they would know, right. If this is the company that is responsible for letting you know how many shareholders you need to reach if you're doing a company wide bailout.

Lara Logan 01:28:54 Right. They're supposed to know.

Greg McCabe 01:28:56 Yeah. You would think if they're going to invoice me for that many people, I'd like to think they had an accurate number.

Lara Logan 01:29:01 You'd like to think that those people exist?

Greg McCabe 01:29:03 Exactly. That's my.

Lara Logan 01:29:04 Hope. Okay, so. Well, you know, when you look at this 124,000 people and their families impacted, and one of, I don't know how many companies because those naked short sellers and those short sellers were out there, those hedge funds, they know exactly what they're doing.

Greg McCabe 01:29:21 Oh, it's an art form.

Lara Logan 01:29:22 And they do it every single business day.

Greg McCabe 01:29:26 That's right.

Lara Logan 01:29:26 Every single trading.

Greg McCabe 01:29:27 Day. Again, we're just the tip of the iceberg. And I think that's why Finra and the SEC is working so hard, because they see this as a as a first domino to fall, could have a negative impact. And again, that's not a goal of mine.

Lara Logan 01:29:38 Well, if they I mean, if regulators can't catch over a billion in counterfeit shares in one company, that doesn't bode well, doesn't, you know, inspire a lot of confidence in those regulators.

Lara Logan 01:29:51 But nevertheless, I mean, this is the heart and soul of the American dream. Absolutely right here.

Greg McCabe 01:29:57 The American dream was actually built on this concept of if you work hard, if you provide a good product, you invent something, you provide a good service. You have a chance to make a good living. You provide something for your children or your grandchildren. And we all love that concept. But for some weird reason, there's been this this pivot in America where there's obscene fortunes being made by not creating jobs, not by offering a new product or a new service, but by destroying American companies. And I'm here to tell you, I can't see anything other than the government is aware of it, and in some strange ways they're complicit with it, and I cannot explain it.

Lara Logan 01:30:34 It's very disappointing.

Greg McCabe 01:30:36 It absolutely.

Lara Logan 01:30:36 Is. And I know you have you know, you're a father and a grandfather. And so you obviously have that in your mind, right? What you what you're leaving behind for your children and for their children.

Greg McCabe 01:30:47 Absolutely. It's very important to me to I've spent almost 66 years telling the world how much what a gift it is that we live in the greatest country that's ever existed. And now to fight through this makes me say we have to stand up. I think about there are at least dozens of people who are in the federal government that know the magnitude of this problem, yet they've remained silent. And that's something I just can't get my brain wrapped around. I they sometimes. Have you not ever watched Mr. Smith Goes to Washington? When you see fraud and corruption, you don't go quiet. You you filibuster like Jimmy Stewart did. It's just incomprehensible to me. I want to say to him, this is your time to act. This is your time to do what your parents taught you and your grandparents, your teachers, your religious leaders. You've played this out in your head a million times. When it's my time, I'm going to do the right thing. But for some reason you're keeping yourself quiet. And if I could say something to them, I would just say, please don't let the criminal enterprise steal your most valuable asset, which is your integrity and your self-worth.

Greg McCabe 01:31:52 Stand up and tell the story.

Lara Logan 01:31:54 Is there any chance that any of these people is over 124,000 people? Will they ever be made whole? Will any of them ever get any of their money back?

Greg McCabe 01:32:04 Well, I will tell you what I tell every shareholder that reaches out to me, and they always end their letters almost invariably with, please tell me, is there a pathway forward? Please tell me how. And I always say the same thing. There is an impossibility that I can tell you how this will turn out, but the two things I can tell you for sure is one. I will never stop fighting and to regardless of the outcome, I promise you, I'm walking away with my head held up high and you should do the same. And that's my theme. Over and over again. We're going to conduct ourselves properly the way the American dream was put into place. We're going to demand fairness and justice and accountability, but we're going to do it in a fair and admirable way.

Lara Logan 01:32:44 So what would you say to the president and what would you what would you want to tell him? What would you want him to understand about this situation? What would you would you want him to do that?

Greg McCabe 01:32:53 That might be the easiest question you've asked me all day.

Multiple Speakers 01:32:57 Well, the easiest of the last.

Greg McCabe 01:32:59 What I would say to I would say, Mr. President, you were elected to the highest office in the land of the greatest country that has ever existed. You ran on a campaign promise to drain the swamp. Well, please believe me when I tell you there is nothing swamp here than this American disgrace that my shareholders have had to put up with for the last four years. On behalf of all of my shareholders, please help us.

Lara Logan 01:33:28 Well, Greg, I thank you so much for coming onto the show and for for talking to us. I know how invested you are in this. I deal with, you know, a lot of people, and there's no question about your sincerity. There's no question about your commitment. I'm heartbroken for these people. You know, three people have really committed suicide because of the impact of this. I mean, we saw it on a much larger scale in a way, with Enron. Right, right. We know that a financial crisis like this can truly impact people's lives.

Lara Logan 01:33:56 We know that there are tons of veterans who have had little enough to start with retirees, who had little enough to start with people who who poured everything into this. And it's just the fact is, it's just wrong. So I sincerely hope that the SEC, the regulators, Finra, that they can find their way to doing the right thing here. The most important thing to me is really what you have said, that you're not going away because they just want the problem to go away, go bankrupt, you know, lose your nerve, get tired, whatever it happens to be. Right? They want it. They want the problem to go away. But here. You know, it's like the body is is lying there. All the evidence is there. They're denying you access to it. And if they can do this to you, the reality is they can do it to anybody. And they probably are doing it and have done it to people. And our financial markets just they cannot be corrupted to this point.

Lara Logan 01:34:54 We cannot just say regulators don't have to do their job, because underneath all of this, the basis of the American dream is something called hope.

Greg McCabe 01:35:03 I agree.

Lara Logan 01:35:04 And if you if you if you kill the system, if you kill the integrity, if you kill the safeguards, you kill the hope. Right. And when people lose hope, they really, truly do lose everything. And, and so I just, you know, I hope the president hears you. I hope the regulators who inherited this problem hear you. And even though they've been there a while, maybe they can find their way to making this right. But these people deserve to be. They deserve justice. You said, you know, you talk about this in civil terms, in civil resolutions, but is there is there criminal activity here potentially?

Greg McCabe 01:35:40 Well, if you ask me, I say absolutely certain. There are thousands of people sitting in jail in America for stealing a whole lot less. But again, that's not my task. That is for other people who are in charge of the criminal laws.

Greg McCabe 01:35:52 My task is to fight for my shareholders. And I loved what you just said about hope. I hope that my shareholders will hang in there and just realize that we're not done fighting. I don't know how to land, but I promise you, I'll never stop fighting for you.

Lara Logan 01:36:05 Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. Keep us informed. Okay?

Multiple Speakers 01:36:08 Okay. Absolutely.

Lara Logan 01:36:09 Keep us posted so that we can keep our audience and, you know, up to date on what's happening. Also, for anybody out there. Can people help in any way right now.

Greg McCabe 01:36:19 Just what we need is attention. We need the spotlight on it. That's why I mentioned Charles and Anne van der steel. And I've got to say how much I appreciate you, because I know a lot of people listen to you and you are well thought of in the community. And if you will tell our story, if anybody will tell our story and let the right people hear, that's the only way we're going to win.

Greg McCabe 01:36:40 It's the way this goes away, is when people stop talking about it. We have to have attention.

Lara Logan 01:36:45 I understand that, okay, so you hear it. You have it right there. You know what to do. It's so important to share this, to get it out to as many people as possible and, and to for the voices of these people to be heard. You can search MMMMP and you can read more about it. You can go to Anne Van Steel or Charles Payne or the Bearded Vet and others. You can hear from the Army themselves, you know, hear the individual stories, hear what people have lost and how they have suffered. And you can write to Congress, you can write your congressmen, you can use your voice on social media. But most importantly, just share this with as many people as you can and keep sharing it. There's no deadline in the digital space, so like, share, subscribe if you can support us. Support Greg and the MMT Army. Speak up.

Lara Logan 01:37:43 Let your voices be heard because there's nothing more powerful than when all of us work together. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you for paying attention. We will have the documents on the website for people to work their way through. I hope it wasn't too hard to follow if you're still watching. Thank you so much for your patience and your commitment. And as always, thank you for being bold enough to go rogue with Laura Luck.