84. From Forgettable to Favorite: Creating a powerful podcast premise with Jay Acunzo

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Have you ever looked at your itunes or Spotify Player and wondered how in the world people are going to find your podcast above others that discuss the same topics that you do? How is it that you can actually differentiate your podcast from your competitors? How is it that you can ensure your podcast is the one your audience has subscribed to or favorited, and that they keep coming back week in and week out for more all? Well, if you've ever wondered that, then this is the episode for you. I am joined by Jay Acunzo, the co founder of Creator Kitchen and host of The Unthinkable Podcast.

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And he's going to be taking us through a particular strategy we all need to be implementing right now. This strategy is how we are going to take our shows from being forgettable to becoming a favorite, how we can ensure our podcasts, mine and yours, stand out. My name is Deirdre Tshien, the CEO and co founder of Capsho, the fastest way to repurpose and market your expert content. And this is the Great my podcast show.

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Hey, you okay? Fair warning. This is going to be a jam packed episode, so strap in. You may know that earlier this year, I attended an event called CEX, which brought together hundreds of content creators. Now, at this event, I had the opportunity to watch and meet some amazing people.

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For example, comedian and writer Tim Washer, who has become a close friend of mine and who we're working on something pretty cool together, actually. So definitely keep a lookout for that capchovians like Joe Casabona, Lee Judge and Daniel Nessel, and experts like Melanie Dozel, Jay Klaus, and today's very special guest, Jay Acunzo. Now, at this event, Jay spoke about a topic that I knew I had to get in front of you. It was all about how to create a podcast that is going to become your audience's favorite. This is something that I've struggled with personally, and I would hazard a guess that it's something you may be struggling with, too.

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So rather than me talk too much more about it, I'm going to hand it straight over to Jay so that we can jump into the meaty goodness of how we can have our podcasts stand out from the crowd. Before we get to the fun stuff, I did want to start with something a little bit difficult, some hard truths that we have to face as podcasters creators, public voices, for better or worse. I think for better, I think there's some hope here. A couple hard truths. First of all, to make a successful show, it is not enough to be smart, charming, and accomplished.

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The analogy I always use is pulled from Marvel. So you think about Tony Stark, riri Williams, sam Wilson. I mean, Stark is a billionaire, charming genius with a global empire. Riri Williams is a child prodigy in engineering, and Sam Wilson is a consummate leader everywhere. He shows up, and yet they would get walloped.

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And that's my excuse to use a word as delicious as walloped publicly if they were to face these very powerful other beings, these superpowered beings without their super suits. And I think that's what intentional design of a podcast really becomes for us as voices. It takes our skills that we have and enhances them, and it gives us new abilities so that we can go out and face ultimately the most superpowered creative voices currently alive today. Because if you think about who we're actually competing with to get listeners to not just pick us but stick with us, it's not just the category competitors. I came out of marketing.

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I talk about storytelling and creativity and content. So if I'm competing in someone's mind with content marketing minds directly, well, I'm actually not just competing with them. I'm competing with everybody. Anyone you like listening to. And there's data to back this up.

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If you look at what Edison research reveals in their Infinite Dial Research Report every year, among weekly podcast listeners, 81% listen to fewer than eleven. So have you made the top ten episodes that they are selecting in that week? And 57% listen to fewer than six. So for the majority, have you made the top five episodes they will be listening to that week? And again, it's not enough just to get picked.

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It's not enough to just get on the list. Here's a list of some of the shows that I subscribe to and listen to. But maybe along comes some announcement. I'm not a huge fan, but I did see this announcement. Seth Myers and his brother have this new podcast and I'm going, wait, it's not about just joking with comedians.

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It's about family vacations. I'm sure it's funny and travel. This actually does sound kind of like up my alley. But I have no time in my week to listen to a new show, so I'm probably going to drop sorry, Rob, the idea maze is leaving my list. Even though you're a former boss of mine who I love and learn from, even though I think you have a great show for startups, I think that's going to drop.

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So I took a comedian or a travel based comedy show and I replaced it or I moved out a business show. That's what we're up against. That's really the competitive set. And that's to say nothing of know some of my favorite people. The people I actually know say they have a podcast because the trust is already built up with them.

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They're not distant voices or new voices or even celebrities. They're folks I know and love in my life. Michelle Warner, one of my favorite marketing voices. To learn from one to one. If she announced a podcast, I'm gonna listen.

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I gotta drop another show. I have no room in my life otherwise. Margot Aaron, a creative collaborator of mine, a wonderful writer. If Margot has a show. Margot Aaron, she's getting on the list.

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Tucker Bryant or any of the members of my membership creator Kitchen, if they came along and said, Jay, I know you love public speaking and I'm a public speaker, that's Tucker here. I'm going to have this awesome podcast that's going to do this and that and the other thing in public speaking. Fantastic. I really want to listen, but where will you fit? Now, I've made a ton of podcasts with this problem or this backdrop in mind.

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I host a show called Unthinkable, which is for creative people. I've built shows in house as an employee. I've built shows for brands, fixing or inventing those shows, developing them. I hosted a podcast or excuse me, a documentary series pre pandemic. I even built a podcast about podcasting where I interviewed other podcast hosts by having them play clips from their podcast to teach other podcasters how to podcast.

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Oh, by the way. Then I sold it to a podcast tech company. So I am steeped in this domain and I think there is great news. I think there's hope. I'm sort of here to bring tidings of great joy.

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I think there's one question we can ask to make sure that not only are we on that list, but that we stay there, that we don't get bumped for whatever celebrity or non celebrity may come along in or outside of our industry echo chamber. There's one really important question we should be asking ourselves to create a great show, and it's this. What's the best Disney film of all time? Okay, this is going to get a little weirder before it gets better. Stick with me, please.

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What's the best Disney film of all time? Now, this is an insane exercise. What's the best Disney film of all time? There is no objective or academic ranking for us to determine that. And yet this is exactly how we treat podcasts.

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I want to be the biggest. I want to be the best. We run around trying to project to others that we are indeed the objective or academic pick, not just in our shows, but in all things we're trying to do to support our careers, our companies, our causes. But that's not how people make choices. There's not this master list we all agree on.

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I can tell you that today is hotter than yesterday in an objective fashion, but I have no way of doing that with a Disney film, with a podcast. We are not rational creatures. In other words, we make decisions for subjective reasons and then rationalize them later. That's actually great news for creators of shows like us, because what it means is to get on that short list and to stay there. You don't need to be the biggest or the best.

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You need to be their favorite. It's the only type of show worth creating. Be their personal preferred pick for a specific purpose. Now, think of your favorite things in your life. They're parts of our identity, your favorite sport or team or food or shirt or drink, city or animal.

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When I say this is my favorite team, I'm saying more about me, really than the team. This is my favorite show. I'm saying more about me than the show. It's like we're self expressing to declare something our favorite. And you see this in kids at a very young age, of course.

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Now, crucially, think of your favorite things. My favorite shirt is not objectively. The best made shirt. My favorite sports team is the New York Knicks. If you're a sports fan at all and you know about the Knicks, maybe this year was the exception.

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But for most of my adult life, they've been among the worst. Like think about that, among the worst options in the whole cohort. That was my pick. I gave them my attention and my money and my love. This is not rational behavior or rational thinking.

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Don't be the best, be their favorite. That's the type of show that we need to create. Not the best, but your favorite. Now, here's the thing. Most podcasts are no one's favorite because most podcasts are generic.

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That makes them feel excruciating to listen to or forgettable if you do. And I don't want to pick on anybody real doing the real work of making a tough show. It's hard work out there. So I made a few different categories and I invented some fake shows. And maybe we'd recognize maybe ourselves, but certainly other shows we know in these categories.

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So here are some examples of generic podcasts. You have category shows like the Music Fan podcast and their descriptions give away how general they are, what's new and what's hot in music. With the latest news, trends and tracks, plus interviews with artists, producers, writers, and more. I can get this anywhere. And I suppose this is anywhere.

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The generic interview show. Raw and Unfiltered interviews with the world's most inspiring people, hosted by entrepreneur and best selling author John The Podcast Guy Doe. Have we seen this? Giving the nicknames to ourselves, people? It's like me in middle school playing basketball, going I'm white light.

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What are we doing? Well, we're trying to project. Look academically and objectively, I'm the best. People call me the category here Guy, so you must want to pick me. That's not how people make choices, so just stop the embarrassment.

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Don't give yourself a nickname. Maybe also, if I can quibble with one other phrase here, I see raw and unfiltered a lot in descriptions. Raw and unfiltered is amateur speak for bad and unedited. You don't have to be NPR. But I think we should edit our podcast.

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I mean, call me crazy, I think we should cook our chicken and edit our shows just at least a little raw and unfiltered run. And then of course, you have a third category, the Generic Advice Show. The generic advice show. Do what you love. This is the business of creativity with Jane Doe tips and tricks and secrets for entrepreneurs, freelancers and artists to build the career of your dreams.

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Also, interviews, because we can't not I don't know where we got so stuck that we have to do interviews. Look, I do some too. I do some that aren't. There are lots of shows out there for some reason, especially when it's a DIY type show, or you're doing a lot of projects and making a show, or supporting a business through your show, or in addition to your show. For some reason, interviews has to be it.

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We're sort of stuck there now. Again, I didn't want to pick on anybody real here. The problem with this is what's being delivered isn't best delivered as a podcast at all. There's a misalignment between the value promised with these premises, with these ideas for shows, and the vehicle that is show and a podcast. More specifically, most generic podcasts promise transactional value.

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It's the acquisition of something that you want and then you want to move on. Tactical tips, trends and analysis, general success, interviews. We know these shows and maybe host these shows, and they're everywhere. And the problem is, you don't want to exist inside of a transaction. You want it to be over.

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So you listen at two X speed, you're in the grocery line, you wish it would move faster. The value when something is transaction based is having experienced it in the past, being with you, earning trust through you, actually spending time with you, where all the good stuff happens. The listening experience is not part of the value, and that's a real problem. It's not just with our content in a show, it's most places we show up. You can kind of map this on a whole spectrum of experiences that we create through our content and our communities.

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On the left side, commodity content is stuff you can quickly Google. They may even put the answer at the top. How to run an Instagram ad, how to quit threads. I don't know. The Googling of it is what we're after because it's quick and Google knows that.

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And they give you a box at the top so you can move through the transaction quicker. I do that alone and quickly, or I want to if your show feels like you're just asking an expert, I want to do that alone and quickly. So if it's a Pod cast, I might listen at two X speed because I just want it to be over, to acquire something. I'm not looking to build a relationship, not really together a while is what a show is good for. This means you're a little more proprietary in your ideas and your relationships with people.

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They don't just replace you for someone else. It feels like I found a community even if I don't hear from others. I know people who listen to this are like me. I've found a tribe. I'm part of something bigger than myself.

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And maybe even you're going on a journey to change, explore, learn, do something with that community. Podcasts require a significant time investment, even five minute episodes compared to scanning something quickly with your eyes or asking a friend downloading something to your brain. So we need to offer something more than a transaction of value. I think podcasts work best when offering transformational value. I don't mean crazy editing.

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Kudos if you want to do lots of post production, but I mean, what happens in the episode matters. The listening experience, being in it really does something for them. What is promised, what is delivered? Match. This makes them feel more like, well, maybe my favorite show.

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And so let's evolve the transaction based shows into transformation based shows. You're not just helping them, you're trying to change them, and beautifully. You don't need more expertise, but you could act more like an explorer. You say you know where we're standing. Our understanding of something, the way we do it.

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The status quo is broken. I don't want to stand for it anymore. Away in the distance, I see a mountain peak. I want to go there. That might be better if we got there.

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What do you think? Some people want to go over there. I don't. I want to go over here. Great.

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How do you get there? Well, I don't know. I have some assumptions, I have some ideas. But mostly I have a machete called my Curiosity. And I'm going to ask questions of other people and of myself.

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I'm going to explore and hack through this forest between us and there. Join me. Every time I show up, that's what I'm doing. Join me on this. Know visionaries.

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Aren't these fake gurus? That word has an ick factor, I think. But visionaries have vision. This is where we're going. Kolkushna has a vision for how to understand music and leaders.

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Lead us somewhere away from something that's broken or insufficient towards something better. So don't be a host. Be a visionary, be a leader, be an explorer. Don't be the best. Be their favorite.

00:14:09
Be their personal preferred. Pick for a specific purpose. How? That's the question. Wow.

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That is the question. How do we become the explorer? How do we ensure our podcast is providing transformational value to our audience? How do we become their favorite? We're going to dive into the one secret to be able to do exactly all of those things.

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Don't be the best. Be their favorite. Be their personal preferred. Pick for a specific purpose. How?

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That's the question. How do we do that? Develop your premise. Your premise is the specific defensible purpose for your show pulled from your personal vision for your audience. And to apply a little intellectual pressure here, look at it in four different dimensions.

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If you're not sure if you're doing this, are you specific or generic? Can I get it? Anywhere or only here. And by the way, are you defensible? Because the first show about, I don't know, AI for small businesses, that's not defensible because now the second show comes along and what you've done is basically created a moat the width of my finger, and the next show just steps right over it.

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So in your specificity, are you also defensible? Is it IP, an idea that's proprietary that you could own? And does it come from your personal vision? Is there a reason that you are doing this? Is there your belief system?

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Do I get to know you through this? And who is your audience? I think we overindex here. We overinvest here. We're going to define it as this adjective, this adjective, this, that's my audience.

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That's a niche. I think a premise is better than a niche. The specific defensible purpose for your show pulled from your personal vision for your audience, it provides the audience motivation to subscribe. They go, Whoa, this sounds like it's for me. And it also gives them language to share whether they just encountered it.

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Bill, check it out. I haven't listened yet, but this sounds perfect for you. Or they're huge fans, and when they say, Check out the show, and a friend goes, what's it about? They deliver your premise verbatim back to you or back to them. So the premise helps you grow the show.

00:16:05
And of course, everyone wants their show to grow, but only some shows are designed to be growable because only some have developed that premise. Now I think of growth less like a marketing funnel and more like concentric circles of a relationship where total strangers are on the outside and superfans are on the inside. And we're getting really obsessed these days, especially on social media, at grabbing attention. You hear about all these little social media hooks that are clever clickbaity to grab attention. But this work is not about who arrives, it's about who stays.

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You can't just grab attention. You have to hold attention. Can you turn people into active members of your audience? But that's also not enough to be successful. To build a business, to build a great community, you have to convert attention.

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And sure, I do mean the marketing phrase conversion, but I also mean loyalty. When that next celebrity announces their show and you love that celebrity and you're a marketing podcaster, they don't bump you from the list because they're loyal. They're not just active, they're loyal. And of course, Superfans, being those vocal evangelist lists for your cause, we're not really good at the middle parts, and I think we ought to be because I think it's what shows are good for. I think it's what a premise is good for.

00:17:12
A premise is that tipping point from I'm an active listener because the show is relevant to me, to I'm a loyal listener because this is my favorite show. So now you're not replaceable, you're irreplaceable. I don't know about you, but this is really hitting home hard because I had never thought about creating a show in this way. I'm ashamed to admit even this podcast I don't think has a really strong, solid premise. And if you're in the same boat, that's okay, we're going to do this together.

00:17:37
You and I. Sound good. In fact, in next week's episode, I'll be sharing the result of implementing what I'm learning right now. So let's implement together in order to develop a strong, irreplaceable premise so we can be on our way to becoming our audience's favorite show. But first, what is it exactly that we'll be implementing?

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It's called the Audience Resonance Pyramid because I think there's four traits of any show that if we hit all four, we stand a greater chance to be their favorite. This is exciting because you know how much I love a framework. So where do we start? Absolutely. Table stakes is you are topically relevant.

00:18:11
Because if you're not relevant, you're irrelevant. Meaning people don't even know you exist. We agonize over relevancy, but I actually think today it's table stakes. It's a podcast about marketing. I work in marketing.

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Great. Checks the box. Okay, got it. Right at the bottom. Is the topic of your podcast even relevant to your audience?

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And then also very table stakes, albeit fewer do. This is enjoyable. Are you enjoyable? Because if I'm trying to learn about marketing in this case, and it's excruciating, I can go and find ample sources that are more entertaining, more enjoyable, more well written, or what have you, because we face infinite choice. So as wild as it might seem, being relevant, being enjoyable, totally table stakes.

00:18:51
Okay, so not only does your podcast have to be relevant, it also has to be enjoyable. Got it. What's next? Impactful is the next level up? I don't just mean useful like, here's a checklist, follow it in your work as a marketer, let's say.

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I mean, it leaves an impact. Think of like an object hitting the moon, right? It leaves a dent. You remember it after you're gone and return to it and want more. So are you impactful?

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Yikes. Anyone else feeling like each level is really upping the bar to potentially kind of scary heights? And if you aren't, then you should be feeling it. If you really care about growing your podcast and serving your audience, then you've got to be feeling this fear. This fear is when you know you're stepping into your bigger, better future self as a podcaster.

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And that starts with not just creating something relevant, but also enjoyable and impactful. And lastly, and of course, personal. Does it feel like I feel seen or it hits me where I live? It's my personal preferred pick for this specific purpose. It's that emotional connection, that deep resonance, not just reaching people, resonating with them.

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Because if reach is how many see it, then resonance is how much they care. So can we ensure they care deeply, as you'd suspect? There's a ton of shows at the bottom, very few at the top. In any one category. There's a very weak level of connection at the bottom.

00:20:09
They're all interchangeable shows and a very strong one. You feel irreplaceable at the top because the choice few things that we deem as irreplaceable in our lives, no matter how objective or academic they might seem as the best to someone else. My favorite shirt, as it starts to get holes, still feels irreplaceable to me. We have a word for those types of things, our favorites. Right now, we're doing a terrible job getting there.

00:20:31
Interviews with marketers about their jobs and points of view on marketing. I did some research to figure out how many other shows existed, and I just got so sad. So I don't want to belabor the point, but I found a million other shows with basically the same description, and I wanted to lead with this one because I found like five or six shows that were actually named digital marketing podcast. Like, what are we doing? I'm thinking of launching a new show.

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I'm Italian, so it's going to be about the underbelly of the crime world among Italian families, especially early on in their immigration years. I'm going to call it the Sopranos. That's literally what are you doing? There's five of these shows. Six of these shows.

00:21:05
Like a little self awareness, please. All of these have the same kinds of premises. And all the great shows in marketing are also relevant too. They check that box and where are we? Nowhere.

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We're not their favorite. We're not even picked. All right, so we're going to be enjoyable. You know what? Let's separate from the pack.

00:21:20
We're going to be more fun, enjoyable. I like this show on YouTube called Hot Ones where celebrities eat spicy wings as they're interviewed. Let's rip that off. This is real, by the way, not for a podcast. I saw a video show do this, talking about marketing.

00:21:33
Same old marketing executives, same old answers. But they were eating progressively spicy wings. Sure, I guess that was more enjoyable. But maybe some of you have heard the phrase before. It's like putting lipstick on a pig.

00:21:43
Meaning it's like kind of ugly, but put some lipstick on it. And does that fix it? Not at all. But you're trying to do that to fix it, right? Lipstick on a pig, I think that's very disrespectful to the pig, which has lots of value just as a pig without lipstick.

00:21:57
So that's not what this is. This is not lipstick on a pig. This is confetti on crap. Because you take out the confetti, you take out the wings, all you have is crap. And there's not much value to it.

00:22:08
So what we did is just sprinkled some confetti, or in this case, some hot wings on crap. Same interviews, same guests, same material. I guess made more enjoyable. But a lot of other shows are also enjoyable. Oh, my gosh, this is so hard.

00:22:21
Okay, let's be impactful. Can it be more than a cheap, hollow attempt at standing out? Can it have a purpose to the show and the impact on the audience? So it's not just interviews with marketers while they eat spicy wings. It's the spicy wings get spicier and the questions get hotter, too.

00:22:36
So we have to do a little extra research. We have to ask maybe more piercing questions that are tougher or more original. Now we're having an impact. The gimmick changes the flow of the episode and the value of it, but there's still something missing. It's tempting to stop here, and a lot of shows do.

00:22:52
The thing that's missing is you, because some shows, I think, do check these three boxes have these three traits. And it's still frustrating when that happens because you're still among a pretty big competitive set. And why? Because there's something missing in this pitch, in this premise. It's me.

00:23:08
Hi, I'm the podlum. I'm so sorry. You all put your faith in me that this would be a good time for you today. And if you want to log out now, a podcast pun with a Taylor Swift lyric. It's putting a hat on a hat on a hat.

00:23:21
I'm so sorry. I'll just head out this door. Thank you for coming today. Anyways, it's us. We're the problem.

00:23:27
We're not present. Why are you doing this show? Talking to marketers about their expertise, where you eat spicy wings and the questions get hotter. What does that say about you? It's a missed opportunity.

00:23:37
If you just do it this way, you're not advancing the story people have in their minds about you your cause, your community, your brand. So we need that posture, that visionary, that leader, that explorer posture, and we can develop it. And I like to start with something called the Frustration Statement. We start to interrogate our ideas through writing, through maybe public content to see the reaction or to force ourselves to think, because writing is thinking. That's why it's so dangerous to outsource so many parts of the process to AI.

00:24:02
You got to go through the messy bits to find the good stuff, the problem. Let's ask questions about the problem we address with the show for Marketers. In this case, what are you frustrated by or curious about? Well, maybe those are symptoms of an illness we can actually diagnose and solve. What gets worse if we just maintain the status quo as marketers and kept executing the way we do now.

00:24:20
And as we build the show, we might land on a messy lump of copywriting, some of which sounds like this marketers must grapple with an unprecedented amount of change at breakneck speed. I'm frustrated by that. And still they have to somehow succeed and stay sane. No one wants to say this, so I will. It's.

00:24:34
Getting unsustainable. I can't add yet more channels, yet more threads. Come along. Oh, my God. What?

00:24:39
It's leading to missed numbers and team burnout. I'm frustrated. There's a problem. So what are you doing about it? Be a leader, be a visionary.

00:24:46
What is the vision? What's the mountain peak? What's problematic about the status quo or the way we typically execute? Can you diagnose the illness? What change should we make?

00:24:54
Stop doing A. Start doing B. And where does that take us if we make that change and we might land here. Well, we keep adding without subtracting or changing how we operate. We work harder, not smarter or braver.

00:25:05
But adapting needs to become a core skill of ours. We need methods for evolving. We think with great rigor about marketing. We actually need strategies and tactics to evolve, too. It can't be left a chance.

00:25:16
We don't need brute force. We need sustainable success. So how do we do this? Now, there's a purpose to this, right? Because it's interviews with marketers about their jobs while eating spicy wings.

00:25:25
And each question gets more difficult or better because marketers constantly face increasing pressures in their work. So we constantly increase the pressure on our guests. Now, the mechanic, the gimmick, the entertainment value is not just impactful, it feels personal. We have a vision. We're saying something about ourselves and our view of marketing as a result, working through this phew.

00:25:45
Okay, who's picking up what Jay's putting down? I literally had to listen to this at least three times to really have it sink in. So there is your invitation to hit the replay button on this episode. Here's what you need to do to ensure you are creating your audience's favorite show. You need to create something relevant, something enjoyable, something impactful and something personal.

00:26:05
What does that look like for you? Because once you have this, now we. Can pitch it publicly. But you don't want to pitch it through pure frustration. We started there.

00:26:14
There's some fruit on that vine. Now we harvest it and pitch it publicly with empathy. So in Hollywood, they use something called empathy statements. There's basically four beats to it. Address them directly.

00:26:24
You are this and you want that. Address the problem or describe it. We already did that. Plop it here. Add a few burning questions to agitate it, make it feel higher stakes.

00:26:33
Describe your vision for how to solve the problem. We already wrote that. Put it here and then invite them on a journey to join your show. So the result in the long form, it starts to sound like a trailer or the landing page copy for your show. You're a modern marketer and you want to succeed while staying sane.

00:26:48
But if you're honest, that's feeling less and less attainable. More than ever, modern marketers must grapple with an unprecedented amount of change at breakneck speed. It's getting unsustainable, leading to missed numbers and team burnout. Is this just the job. Now we're agitating it.

00:27:01
How do the best thrive? Not just survive? Because that's the problem. We're so caught up in reacting. We've stopped being proactive.

00:27:09
We learn how to market, but we haven't learned how to adapt. Now describe the mountain peak. To thrive today, we have to make adaptation a core skill. Surprise. You have two jobs marketing and adapting.

00:27:18
It's not just about the marketing. We need better, more flexible systems that allow us to succeed without burning out. Because for marketers today, being resilient is just as crucial as being known. Now you invite them to your journey. I am Mary Marketer.

00:27:31
Join me on this weekly podcast where marketers share the strategies and tactics they're using to constantly adapt. Not to grow followers, not to run ads, to constantly adapt. But just as you face increased pressure in your work, we're increasing pressure on our guests. They eat hotter and hotter wings as each question gets harder and harder. Because today's premium skill isn't actually marketing, it's adapting.

00:27:51
That's modern marketing. And this is the modern marketing show. And now, at long last and that might have taken weeks, if not months of work, but we can finally pitch it in this pithy way. This is a show about modern marketing. Unlike other shows about modern marketing only, we ask marketers to describe the systems they really use to adapt to increasing pressure.

00:28:11
All while we increase pressure on those guests as they eat hotter and hotter wings and answer harder and harder questions. And I'm feeling pretty good. I'm feeling great, I'm feeling fancy. Let's add a tagline. That's what I say.

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The modern marketing show. The only thing today's top brands have in common is how they adapt. Boom mic drop. All the monies, all the listeners, all the ratings and reviews. Congratulations, everybody.

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We did it. We've ascended the audience resonance pyramid. We're at the top. And others have, too. But they have different premises.

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They have different specific defensible purposes pulled from their personal visions. Even if we compete for the same audience, you're an expert. As a host, as a teacher, as a voice, as a storyteller. You bring expertise, right? But don't assume the posture of an expert.

00:28:56
It's not here's an answer, next transaction. Because as a host, you're not an expert. You're an explorer. Bring your expertise, but assume the posture of an explorer. Don't explore topics that's not defensible.

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Explore a premise, a specific defensible purpose pulled from your personal vision for your audience. Give your audience motivation to subscribe and language to share. Don't create content grabbing attention. Create connection, holding it and converting it. Don't be the best.

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Be their favorite. Wow. Anyone else absolutely blown away with the simplicity of becoming your audience's favorite podcast. And I deliberately use the word simple and not easy because I know this stuff not easy. But I guarantee it is so worth it once you see not only how much easier it is to help you create content, but also, once you see your download numbers and positive reviews climb, I also know that it's a lot.

00:29:49
And so I wanted Jay's advice on what the one immediate next step is that any of us can take to start to implement this, especially when we already have a podcast. And that's what I have for you as today's bonus clip. So if you want to hear Jay's advice on the one immediate next step you can take to start implementing his audience resonance pyramid, head over to the show notes and get that free bonus clip. And if you wanted to hang out with Jay a little longer, at the. End of the day, I think what we're trying to do is help people bet on the things that make them truly irreplaceable as creators and hone those skills and to do so around other kind, generous, creative human beings.

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Because, quite frankly, I don't know about everyone listening here, but I often feel alone, not only because we're doing things virtually, but because I'm not often even virtually with others. I'm alone in the quiet, working, plying my trade. Right? So if anything that I'm saying is lighting you up, you can go ahead and get there's some samples of the content, testimonials all that good stuff front facing on thecreatorkitchen.com homepage. There you have it.

00:30:49
You can head over to create Akitchen.com to learn more about how to join Jay's community. That's it for me today. Thanks so much for joining me on the Grow my podcast show. My name is Deirdre Tshien, and as always, stay awesome.