62. How to use the Secret Sauce of Reciprocity for Explosive Podcast Success

00:00:00
So recently, as I've been guesting on other podcasts and talking through my thoughts on certain topics, I've actually been giving myself epiphanies. I don't know, is that happen to you too, or is it just me? I'm finding that with just the act of talking something out, it actually clarifies so much for me. And something like this happened recently when I was a guest on Adam Adams's podcast called The Podcast on Podcast. Hey, Adam, if you're listening to this.

00:00:27
So Adam was asking me about paid ads and the efficacy or how effective paid ads actually is to grow a podcast. And I started talking to him about the traffic pyramid, which is my framework for finding and getting traffic to anything, whether it be a podcast or business or an event, really anything. And if you're new to this podcast, I actually go into detail on the four tiers of the traffic pyramid in episode twelve of this podcast, or I also highly recommend listening to my episode on Adams's podcast, the Podcast on Podcasting, which I actually believe was released just yesterday. And my answer to Adam, in short, is that paid ads are at the top of the pyramid because there's actually so much that you can do organically first. And not just that you can do, but you need to be doing organically first and actually get right before investing money into ads.

00:01:21
Things like your passive organic marketing, your active organic marketing, and leveraging other people's audiences. Now, if you hang with me, I'm actually going to play an excerpt from that interview that Adam did with me where I mention which of those organic tears has become my absolute favorite way of growing my podcast and my business and the epiphany that I had, which is actually the one and only secret you need to know to truly find growth success. My name is Deirdre Tshien, CEO and co founder of Capsho, the fastest way to market and grow your podcast. And this is the Grow my podcast show. Yay.

00:02:10
I want to ask on Capsho, your company that a lot of people know, a lot of people use, I want to understand how come you don't put any ads? Would you do ads if something changed? Why haven't you done ads? Kind of walk us through that so we can see it from your lens. When Adam asked me that question, it paused me a little and forced me to think about a lot in just that split second before answering intuitively.

00:02:41
I knew there was so much more that went into how we got to where we are now than what I could cover in a 30 minutes interview. But I did manage to boil it down to two or three core things, core things that we had to do and get right before even thinking about paid ads. And I would definitely encourage you once again to listen to the full episode on Adams's Podcast, to hear what I had to say on that, and something I didn't quite mention, but that in hindsight I should have, is fundamentally being able to back yourself. A lot of us get into paid ads before we should for one reason and one reason only. And let's be clear, it's not because of the rational things that we tell ourselves that it's the only way to scale, because it's one way, but it's not the only way.

00:03:29
And in fact, a lot of times it's not the smartest way to scale. In fact, my good friend Mike Wiston from Mopod is very intentional about talking about this, that paid ads is not for everyone and is in fact for a very minority of people at a certain stage in their business or their podcasting journey. So telling ourselves it's the best way to scale is just a way for us to rationalize it. And it's also not because it's the fastest way to get the word out. Again, this is something we sometimes tell ourselves, but unless we have a bucket load of money to burn, it is not the fastest way because there is so much that goes into figuring how to do it right out.

00:04:08
So why do we get into paid ads before we should? Because we don't back ourselves. We don't back ourselves to get the fundamentals right, and we certainly don't back ourselves to get the fundamentals right in time for us to be making enough money from it. And by the way, I hope you know me well enough by now that everything I talk about, I do it from a place of having been there and done that. Paid ads was how I started my coaching business.

00:04:32
I was burning a minimum of like $2,000 a month on ads without earning any income, which was putting me rapidly into debt because I thought that was the only way I'd be able to grow. And that particular experience told me that it's not. So what do I mean when I say we may sometimes jump the gun on paid ads before we should because we don't back ourselves? I mean that we don't give ourselves the time and space to get the fundamentals right. And funnily enough, the fundamentals is actually the stuff that you can do for free.

00:05:04
When I think back to the time I was burning away cash on ads and the results that I had gotten from that, I honestly would have been in the same spot if I had used that time to work on the fundamentals instead. And those fundamentals, it comes down to the bottom three tiers of the traffic pyramid. But this episode isn't about going through the traffic pyramid again. I'll direct you to either episode twelve of this podcast or please just go listen to my episode on Adams's podcast, which is called The Podcast on Podcasting. What I want to do today is to go deeper on one of the strategies.

00:05:38
So hang with me because I'm going to unveil my absolute favorite way to get the word out about what you do and to grow, whether it's your business or your podcast. And the one secret to getting this right. When I was talking Adam through the traffic pyramid, I also mentioned which of those tiers was my absolute favorite, the one that I actually personally love and I have really, really lean into, which I'm really excited to talk to you about. Even more potentially, Adam is leveraging other people's audiences. Now, this is not a new concept by any means.

00:06:15
You may have already heard about this concept in other contexts, perhaps as the Dream 100 strategy created by Chet Holmes, or specifically in the podcasting context, as OPP other people's podcasts. Leveraging this strategy has hands down been the best way for me to fast track Capsho's growth. This is actually the fastest way to achieve any kind of word of mouth virality. But the difference I'm going to share with you today is the one secret to making this work, the one secret that has taken me honestly, a while to figure out myself. And this is what I had shared with Adam.

00:06:50
I think I did have to change my mindset about this when I talked about that third tier in the traffic pyramid, which was leveraging other people's audiences, a lot of us come when we think about that, it's always like, okay, well, what can I get from this? How do I create connections or where I'm going to get something out of it? I'm going to reach out to someone. I'm going to be like, I want this thing. How can you help me get this thing?

00:07:14
And I felt like, by the way, I say all of this because I did it all myself, right? But with Capsho, I was like, I'm going to change my mindset around this, and it's going to be I am going to be served first. Like, how do I create opportunities for other people? And so that could look like, for example, as like, your podcast, right? When you have a podcast, you've created a stage.

00:07:38
Even by virtue of that, you're creating opportunities for other people, for me. So I had a podcast. I have my Summit, of which we're actually just promoting this year's one. It's going to be annual, but we have the Grow My Podcast summit. And each and every step of the way whenever I meet people, and I'm going to do the same as well with you, Adam, I'm 100% sure of this, where I'll be like, how can I help you?

00:07:58
How can I serve you? What are you looking for? And what do I have in my resources that I can help with that? And that, my friend, is the one secret to grow. Being in service first.

00:08:12
Once I changed my mindset on this, everything changed, and I guarantee that it will for you, too. If you don't believe me, then I have a challenge for you. Try it. See what happens, and then message me with the opportunities that he has opened up for you. But first, let's get into why.

00:08:29
Why does being in service first work? It comes down to a couple of things. One is that fundamentally, all of us, every single one of us, want to work with people who are just nice. There's no other hidden agenda, there are no expectations. You're just genuinely doing what you can to make someone else's life a little bit better in any way that you can.

00:08:53
This will pay you dividends tenfold. And the other big reason is that as humans, we are inherently governed by a particular law. It's called the law of reciprocity. It's kind of like when someone buys you a coffee, you make it a point to buy them a coffee the next time you go out together, right? Or if you're never going to see them again, maybe you want to pay it forward and you buy someone else a coffee.

00:09:17
That's the law of reciprocity at work. In simple terms, when someone does something for you, you feel compelled to do something for them because we just don't want to be in debt. Which is why serving is actually the purest and most effective way to actually grow. When you can be of service to someone else first, they will want and need to be of service to you. And this is why it is the one secret to growth, the one secret to being able to effectively leverage someone else's audience.

00:09:46
And so now you might be thinking, but how do I practically do this? Well, great question. So let's get into that, shall we? I'm going to start with step one. Step one is to make everything about them.

00:09:58
Have you ever been to an event meeting people? When someone comes up to you, they say, Hi, and then just jump straight into talking about themselves, what they do and why they're here, and then they seem to jump straight into what they'd like from you specifically. I think we've all been part of those conversations. And how did that make you feel? Did it make you feel small, overwhelmed, overlooked?

00:10:21
Did it leave a little bit of a bad taste in your mouth? Did it make you feel like you would never want to work with this person? Now, compare that to someone who you meet and the first thing they do is ask about you, what you do and why you're here and what it is that you're looking for help for specifically. Now, how did that make you feel? Does it make you feel seen and heard and more likely to have genuine interest in them and what they do?

00:10:47
Does it make you feel like you would genuinely want to get to know this person because they took the time to genuinely want to get to know you? This step of making it about them seems like such an easy thing to do conceptually, but it's actually really hard, especially in high pressure pressure situations. I very recently made this mistake myself. So as you can tell, I am still myself, trying to learn and practice all of this myself. I was at Joe Pelisi's Creator Economy Expo right at the beginning of this month and I had the great fortune of being introduced to Anne Handley, who is the author of Everybody Writes and had just done this killer keynote presentation.

00:11:26
And as you can imagine, she was surrounded by people. Right. She was already talking to someone and clearly had others wanting to meet her too. And I was fortunate because someone who knew the both of us was like, hey, look, let me just introduce you. So we kind of cut the line and he got me introduced to her and what did I do?

00:11:42
I went into babble vomit. Yep. I felt such time pressure that I just babble vomited who I am and what I did and gosh, did that leave a lasting impression? It certainly did not. It just made things awkward and made me feel like someone who just didn't care.

00:11:59
I actually felt terrible looking back at that experience. So let's all learn from the mistakes that I'm making and not do that. We do not want to do that. Instead, take a genuine interest in each and every person that you come across first and make it about them. And that leads me to step two.

00:12:16
Step number two, which is to find out what's important to them. And this one is a little bit of an art, which I'm also still learning and practicing. Now, as we know, everyone's world, well, revolves around them, right? Your world revolves around you, my world revolves around me, and so on and so forth. That's just a fundamental truth.

00:12:38
So if we are to serve, first we need to be able to enter that person's world. And the best way to do that, find out what it is that is consuming that world, what is the most important thing to them right now, or at least one of the important, very many important things that is consuming their world. It's usually a pretty good bet that if they have a business, they're always looking to grow their audience and their revenue. So that's a pretty good bet. But perhaps it's something different.

00:13:06
I actually met a couple of people at their CX conference that were looking for something very different. One was really struggling with his CRM system and automations and I was able to create a really great connection for him, actually introduced him to someone who could very easily help with that. Another is actually making a transition in his career and he's trying to work out what was next for him. And in particular, he knows that he wants to launch a podcast, but he just needed help honing and just getting started and I'm like, amazing. That's exactly in my wheelhouse.

00:13:35
I can help you with that. And so that leads me into step three, which is to find a way that you can do something to help them achieve that. So again with that last person I mentioned who is going through the process right now of figuring out what was next for him and his business because I know I can help help him think through that. And because I know that he has such such a unique skill set that I'm confident he can really make a difference and be successful with it. I immediately offered to help.

00:14:04
And I'm sure that once he's launched, I can introduce him to a ton of people who can help him spread the word and do all the things. And so I did without any expectations. I didn't talk about myself, obviously, he asked me because that's the natural thing, right? When you take an interest in someone, they take an interest back. So he asked me, and in particular, you know, how we left the conversation.

00:14:27
Once I had given him all this value, he was like, let's book in another call because I want to figure out how I can help you. What is it that I can do to help you now? I've gotten so much value from this, there was no expectation out of what I did. I just genuinely wanted to help because I knew I could. And that's what happened.

00:14:46
It's a law of reciprocity at work now with some others. And I'm thinking if they'd be able to add value to you or to our Capsho Collective members, if they can, I can invite them on this podcast, or I can have them be part of the Capsho Collective mastermind. Or I'm wondering if they need help with their content creation or with their processes or with their sales or in building an audience. And if I can directly help them, or if I can't directly help them, how can I connect them with the right person? So the key here is that you're always thinking about them and what you can do to support them, if anything at all.

00:15:20
And once you can start making this a part of just the way you think and operate, I promise you that doors will start to open very rapidly for you. Doors that can help you with growth, whether that's in your business or for your podcast. Now, I do have one more really important step to this, and I'm going to record that as bonus content, actually. So if you head to the description for this episode, click on the link we have there that will take you to this episode's website. Scroll down a little bit and grab that free bonus clip, which is the last step to making this growth strategy work.

00:15:49
But let's quickly recap, shall we? All right, so what is the one secret to growth? The one secret to growth which is actually, in a way, the one secret to making my absolute favorite way of growing work. So my absolute favorite way is leveraging other people's audience. My one secret to making that work is to serve.

00:16:14
It is just to be of service. And so how do you be of service? Step one, make everything about them. Make everything about the people that you meet. Step two is find out what's important to them.

00:16:24
And step three is find a way that you can do something to help them achieve that. Because if you do, I guarantee that they will ask you, just like this person did, what they can do for you. And if they have an audience, especially one that is a perfect audience for you, that is when you suggest, hey, maybe it'd be great if you could be on their podcast or if you could do a collaboration or JV or something with them that gets you in front of their audience. This is the most powerful way to leverage other people's audiences and actually help you grow. So, once again, go and grab my last step, my last tip to this in the Bonus it's free bonus content.

00:17:10
Go over to my description, click on the link, go to my website, scroll down, get the bonus clip. Thanks for hanging with me. My name is Deirdre Tshien. And stay awesome.