61. Why Guests don't promote episodes and how to be the exception with Kelly Mosser

00:00:00 So I polled about 100 guests that I had trained and I was just curious to get their thoughts on if you've ever done a podcast interview and you didn't share it. Why was that? I had some hunches and they actually all proved to be not true when I really talked to my community. You know that frustration you feel when a guest you had on your newly released podcast episode doesn't share about it, even though you may have asked them to. Perhaps you sent them a clip or an audiogram to share, maybe even some email and social media copy and yet you see them not sharing anything.

00:00:34 You know that feeling, right? Well, we have got you. I am so excited about this episode because I have a special guest on Today, Kelly Mosser, who helps people figure out how to book, deliver and monetize high quality podcast guest interviews. And the best thing about this conversation is that she has access to hundreds of podcast guests in her community. So when I asked her to speak at the Capture Collective Mastermind on this very topic, she went ahead and surveyed them so that she would know exactly why it is that they are not sharing your episode.

00:01:09 And the reasons surprised all of us on that call. So if you want the secrets on why this is happening and importantly, the very tangible things that you can do to address these reasons, then stick with us. We are going to be diving deep into this so that your guests will be shouting about your podcast from the rooftops. My name is Deirdre Tshien, CEO and co founder of Capsho, the fastest way to market and grow your podcast. And this is to grow my podcast show.

00:01:48 My background is in the startup strategy and operations world. I became a full time, full time entrepreneur in 2020, sort of by accident, growing a coaching business, a little fledgling coaching business, which was the best decision I've ever made. But I was primarily trying to grow my community on Instagram. Any other instagram people here? People who've dabbled with instagram.

00:02:11 Yeah, I got Instagram into Instagram in 2018 and so I had the benefit of sort of being an early adopter when it comes to getting on the platform and talking about business things, because not a lot of people were doing that at that time. It was really easy to grow. So I grew very quickly to 10,000 followers, grew a great community, made my first six figures just through Instagram alone. And then about 18 months ago, maybe two years ago, my engagement started to drop. My story views dropped my reels views, dropped everything.

00:02:38 I was like, this sort of feels like a sinking ship. I'm not sure if this is where I want to put all my eggs for my business. So I got into the podcasting world, launched a podcast. It's called the Alliance Success Show. It's grown tremendously over the last year, but I had hired someone to help me launch the podcast.

00:02:54 And I asked her like, we had a great launch. There was a lot of hoopla, a lot of excitement and momentum when we launched. And I said, how do you know, maintain this and keep this going. And she said, you should go and be a guest on as many other shows as you can that are relevant in your niche. I was like, all right, I have no idea how to do that, but I guess I'll figure it out.

00:03:10 Got out there with a pitch that I thought was okay, and I was just absolutely getting ghosted from all of these pitches I was sending. I was not seeing any traction as a guest. Eventually, when I started getting pitched to be on my show, I started to figure out, okay, this is actually what you need to do from the guest perspective to start to resonate with the hosts. So I started guesting a lot and did not only see success for my show, but saw that it was an incredible lead generation tool. It was actually the audience growth tool that I thought having my own podcast was going to be.

00:03:40 Turns out having your own podcast is a really wonderful nurturing tool, but it's not a build it and they will come situation, which I'm sure all of us know. So guessing really became something that I realized was a huge opportunity for entrepreneurs, small business owners, small creators, and I also wanted to selfishly get better pitches for my show. I wanted people to come on who were going to be great guests. So I started training guests. Now that's pretty much what my entire business is centered around, is helping people figure out how to book really high quality podcast interviews, how to deliver really high quality podcast interviews, how to monetize through podcast guesting, and how to be an incredible guest.

00:04:14 Because hosts like us, we get ghosted all the time by our guests that we thought were going to be the best guests ever. So I want to represent the hosts and the guests. I know that there's a lot of opportunity for guests to be better, and I want to give them that little host's perspective of how they can do things better. So I'm excited to connect with hosts today to talk about the host side and what we can do to facilitate better guest partnerships with our guests too, and make sure that we're getting what we need out of a guest interview, making sure the guest gets what they need too. The best thing about podcasting and having guests on your show is the no brainer win, win, win, win that occurs.

00:04:49 It's a win for them because you've given them a stage to be on. It's a win for you because you get to meet network and learn from someone awesome and it's a win for your audience who gets to be introduced to someone they need to know. And so if that's the case, why are your guests not sharing about the episode on your podcast? What my hunch was that people didn't like the way they sounded on audio. They're not used to hearing their voice in that format and therefore they're embarrassed.

00:05:18 There's imposter syndrome coming up, there's shame coming up, there's fear. And that actually proved to not be true. When I talked to my audience, there was a little bit of that. There was a little bit of like, oh, I'm a little nervous of getting my voice out there. But by far the number one reason that people didn't share is that they didn't like where the conversation went.

00:05:34 They didn't feel like the content of the conversation was a good reflection of their brand and their expertise, which I thought was really interesting because we as hosts can really influence where the conversation goes, obviously. So to me, the message, the takeaway from that is if we just do a little bit more prep with our guests and really make sure that they feel really good about where the conversation is going to go, what topics you're going to hit on. I know it's very popular to just say we're going to just have a conversation and let it flow and see where it goes. After talking to my audience, I was not actually all that surprised to find out that the more sort of flowy and conversational an interview is, the less satisfied the host the guest feels at the end of that interview in terms of how they felt like they showed up in their expertise. They want to shine.

00:06:21 They want to shine on an interview. If they don't feel like they got the chance to do that, they're going to be less likely to share that episode with their communities. Okay, wow. So we've just dived straight into the first reason, and I think we can all relate to this. Any kind of speaking that we do on any type of stage, including a podcast, is a chance for us to really reveal to the world what it is that we know and are experts in.

00:06:45 And so it makes sense that if we feel like we didn't hit the mark with an interview that we wouldn't want to share about it. It's kind of like we wouldn't expect to share on social media about a test we did that we got a B plus on, right? It just doesn't happen. So this actually makes a lot of sense. So let's go into get into some of the things that we could do that could maybe help with this.

00:07:06 Not everyone wants to give exact questions prior to an interview. I understand that. I don't do that with my guests, but I do make sure that we're aligning on where the conversation is going. So what's the big message or the big teaching or the big concept? The big takeaway that this guest really wants to get across on this episode, I think that's sufficient.

00:07:26 But just going into it and saying, we'll talk about marketing or we'll talk about sales, because you might have a very different interpretation of what a sales interview sounds like than someone who's this is their bread and butter. It's what they do all day, every day. They might have a very different angle. Ask them, is there an angle that you really want to talk about? What's a unique perspective that you and I can chat about that maybe not everyone's heard before.

00:07:47 So I think it's really just aligning on the overall tone and intention and strategy of the conversation because I think that's going to get a lot more of your guests to willingly share. Now, for anyone who attended the annual Grow My Podcast Virtual Summit, there was an interview I did with Michael from Think Unbroken, who has interviewed some very well known people in the entrepreneurship and mindset space, like Tom Billyou and Amy Porterfield. And his one big advice for being a kick ass interviewer is to do research on your guests and to note down three, four, five questions that you wish other interviewers had asked. This is such a great way to have your guests talk about something they may never have spoken about before, and it's what will make your interview memorable to them. So doing this type of prep in conjunction with what Kelly has recommended is a surefire way to ensure that your guest leaves that interview feeling like you've helped them really shine.

00:08:44 Okay, so that was the first reason. It was just the first reason, by the way, why a guest won't share your episode. What is the second one? Got busy was another one like, I just got busy. I forgot I never promoted because I just ran out of time.

00:08:57 That was something that I thought was probably going to come up, and to a degree, it did. But there was something interesting. As hosts, I don't mind if a guest takes three weeks to share an episode, as long as they share it, right? Better three months later than never at all. From the guest perspective, it has to be the day the episode comes out or they've missed the window.

00:09:14 So that's also just an education gap, I think, an awareness gap that we can help just do a little bit more education with our guests and say, listen, if you don't promote it the day it comes out, that's okay, there's no window that you miss. We're creating invincible content that lives forever. We're creating assets that are going to be available forever. So if it takes you a week, that's fine. But I think there's a lot of I really meant to post it today.

00:09:40 I got busy, I forgot. Now it's a week later. Now it's too late. So just I think something that we can do is really educate our guests and say, listen, be great if you promoted within the first 48 hours. It would be great if you promoted it again two weeks later and again two months later.

00:09:54 Because if they have benchmarks, they realize this is something that it's cool for them to do over a period of time. They're going to be more likely to do that. I don't know about you, but this never actually crossed my mind. It never crossed my mind that this was something that was holding a guest back from promoting. And it makes sense they don't want to be promoting something that might be, quote unquote, old news.

00:10:15 And perhaps they're on a bit of a podcast tour and there are a ton of other podcasts that they're trying to promote and they couldn't get to yours until after it went live. And then maybe they feel guilty about it so that by the time they come around to being able to promote it, they don't. Because we all know as humans, that sometimes hiding is more comfortable than confronting it head on. And on that note, I actually wanted to get some insight into whether if a guest is on a podcast tour and they're talking about generally the same thing over and over again, does that make them less likely to promote? They shouldn't be thinking that way.

00:10:50 If you're thinking strategically as a guest, you should be wanting to show that you've got this resume, sorry, this database of you talking about the same thing over and over. Because I know that as a guest, you want your audience to go and listen to that episode. That doesn't have to be your top priority intention. You just want your audience to see that yet another person has recognized you as an authority on this topic. So even if they don't go and listen to the episode, that's okay.

00:11:18 It serves a secondary purpose, which is to signal to your already warm audience, check. Another person has essentially endorsed me in this thing that I talk about. So, yes, while we want our audiences to be listening to our episodes, something that I actually like to do, because I do tend to talk about a similar topic on every show that I go on, I've gotten in the habit of because I know my audience is like, great. We know. You go on all these podcasts and you talk about the same thing.

00:11:39 What I've started to do is highlight other episodes around the episode that I'm on so that I'll say, I did this episode. If you go and I know you hear me talk about this a lot, I shared this one unique, specific story or this one tip that I don't usually talk about on this episode. I also love episodes 55 and 65. I got a lot out of episode whatever, and I'm now elevating someone else, another guest on that podcast, or I'm elevating a solo episode by that host. So when you're promoting an episode.

00:12:09 And I know everyone here is on the host side, but when a guest is promoting an episode, they don't have to just talk about that one episode that they're on. So I think that's another way to think about it. You could also, for your guests, say you can promote, certainly please promote your episode to your audience. Your audience might also like episodes 45 and 49 because they touch on sort of adjacent topics to the topic that you talked about. So that could be a helpful way to just bring them to the show.

00:12:34 Such great advice for us to think about when we have a guest on who is on a podcast tour. In fact, Kelly went a little bit deeper into this because I've been wondering something for a while and I couldn't wait to ask Kelly this. When we know a guest is on a podcast tour, which means that they very much want to be talking about what's in their wheelhouse to that. So they can maybe sell their book or they can talk about their newly launched podcast or an offer. How do we ensure that we make this an awesome interview, something that they'd be really excited to share about?

00:13:06 And Kelly had an answer, an awesome answer for this, which I'm going to be providing as a free bonus clip. So if you go to the description for this episode, click on the one link I have in there and scroll down until you get to the exclusive bonus content section. You can opt in to get Kelly's answer to this question. So go ahead and do that. And when we're back from this short break, we're going to get into three more reasons guests aren't sharing about your podcast.

00:13:30 Another thing that came up was the host will send me assets, graphics, recommended snippets for copy. And I don't feel like that's a reflection of my brand, so I feel resistant posting it in my feed where everything's really curated in my own branding. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. So if your branding is bright yellow and green and the person that you interviewed, their branding is really kind of soft and organic and it's neutral, they might not want to share that on their feed for an aesthetic perspective. I thought that was interesting too.

00:14:03 Something that I think you could explore if you're branding. If you're finding that your guests are not sharing the assets that you're sending them, one, it might be time for a design upgrade where you elevate your design just a little bit. Or two, if you use Canva or if someone on your team uses Canva, you can create template links. So if you create a template link, you can send your assets to the guests and you can say, hey, change this to your branding colors if that's going to make you more comfortable sharing it on your page or whatever it is. So you can give them a little bit of creative license to customize some stuff which could make it feel a little bit more like, okay, this is something that belongs in my feed or on my platforms that I feel more comfortable sharing.

00:14:43 And Diane, one of our capshovians on this Mastermind, had an amazing suggestion. She's going to start to create and share customizable assets through sharing, say, a canva link for her guests to update the promotional assets that she's created in their colors. Pretty cool idea, right? I'm always so impressed with our capshovians. So with that, let's get into Kelly's fourth reason guests aren't sharing the episode, and this is something that happens while a guest is thinking about how to promote the episode.

00:15:11 They didn't know how to extract the most compelling points, and they didn't know how to talk about them. I think this is probably a pretty common phenomenon. You don't really understand what the most exciting thing is that you're saying because you're so close to it. So for people who aren't trained to sit down, we are all trained to sit down and pull out the most interesting and exciting and compelling pieces of a conversation. A guest might not have that skill.

00:15:36 So if you don't do that, that's a really easy thing you can do. And it also makes the them feel really good. If you say, hey, this conversation was great. I loved when you said this and this and this. That makes them go, okay, I sounded not like an idiot.

00:15:49 If this host has three things that they can call out that I said that was interesting, that must mean that I didn't sound like a total idiot in this episode. And it helps them. I mean, we can all think about it for ourselves, too. It's really hard to understand what the most compelling thing you're saying is sometimes because you might be interested by one specific thing, especially if the topic is really niche and you're really nerding out on one particular piece of it. That might not actually be what the most exciting part of the interview was.

00:16:13 So it's helpful as a host to call that out for them, and it makes them feel really good, too. You know, the Great news capsho does the heavy lifting for you on this. For our pro Capsho Vians, you have access to a whole bank of quotes that will really make your guests shine. Imagine sending them an email where, when you're asking them to promote, saying something like, here are some super smart and amazing things you said that is going to be so valuable for our mutual audiences. When you share about this and then you quote one, quote two, quote three, et cetera.

00:16:48 If you received an email like that from a host, wouldn't that make you feel so good? Wouldn't that make you even more motivated and excited to promote the episode? I know I would. I'm just so excited that there are really tangible next steps that you can take to implement all of this. So let's get into Kelly's fifth and last reason why guests aren't promoting.

00:17:08 And then the last thing is, have you ever had the experience where you're like on an airplane and it's really warm and you just assume that everyone around you, someone has told the flight attendant that it's like sweltering on this airplane. We just, as humans assume that somebody else is going to do it or some we don't understand that we have so much power and impact in one simple action. And I think a lot of if you're not on the podcast host side, we know that every download matters, we know that every share matters. We know that every review and rating goes a really long way. And I don't think guests always have that appreciation for just how much every tiny action really moves the needle for us.

00:17:47 And if we could just include one sentence in whatever package you're sending them that just says, I just want you to really understand how much you're sharing this episode is going to help not just help us both get the word out about this episode, but help you bring people into your world, help the show grow. Help me if you can really spell out for them just how impactful they're sharing it is and what a difference it really does make. I just don't think they understand how powerful their simple action of sharing with their social media or whatever community is going to be. So just, again, a little bit more education. We have to appreciate that they have no idea how this works from our side a lot of the time that they only know what they know and this is a great opportunity for us to support them in getting the most out of every interview that they do.

00:18:36 So simple and yet probably one of the most effective things we can do. Simply ask and ask in a way that is genuine and authentic. Wow. I hope you got as much out of this episode as I did. And you must connect with Kelly.

00:18:51 She is hands down one of the smartest people I've had the privilege of hanging out with. You can find her on Instagram at Kelly Mosser. Reach out to her and tell her how much you enjoyed and learnt from this episode, please. We'll leave the link to her Instagram in our show Notes, which you can access from the link in the player description. And when you're there, don't forget to also pick up the bonus clip where Kelly goes into detail on how we can ensure we create an amazing interview for someone who is on some type of podcast tour.

00:19:19 Thank you for joining me again on the Grow My Podcast show. My name is Deirdre Tshien. Stay awesome.