50. 4 Tips to 7x your podcast ROI (even if it is a side hustle)

Deirdre Tshien 00:00:00

Do you remember when you started your podcast, the nervousness you felt, the disbelief that your podcast was going to be potentially found by actual podcast listeners? The excitement from creating something that was going to be able to help so many people, but then the deflation when you finally launch after all of that internal anticipation, and your download numbers are at a measly single digit, or worse, zero. I remember that like it was yesterday. And I remember when I did finally get a download, I actually ran out and I squealed about it to my husband who had had to gently tell me that it was actually him. Yeah, we've all been through some version of that, right? Tell me I'm not alone here. Or maybe that's what you're feeling right now. Or maybe you've been able to grow your audience to a certain point and now it's stagnating a little bit. If so, this is going to be a cool episode for you because I did something a little bit different with this episode. I bet that what you may expect is to hear from someone who has, quote unquote, made it. Someone who might have tens of thousands of downloads now, but I actually wanted to speak to someone who is doing it, as in they haven't yet reached that high, high goal that they have, but they're growing exponentially right now because getting that kind of insight in real time is so valuable in knowing what is working currently. Not something that worked, you know, two, five or ten years ago. And that's why I'm so excited to be having this conversation with Rasean Hyligar from the Motivate Grind Succeed Podcast, who in full transparency is a Capsho user, in fact, is one of the ogs inside Capsho Collective. So you may hear a little bit about Capsho, but even more importantly, you'll hear from someone who has been struggling to grow his podcast audience until he started figuring out these specific things. These specific three things. What are they? What are they? My name is DJ Shen, CEO and co founder of Capsho, the fastest way to market and grow your podcast. And this is the Growmat Podcast show. Hey, you. How are you doing? I am so excited for this episode because I remember one of the first times that Rasean and I started talking. He was inside of Capsho beta many, many months ago, and he gave us some of the most in depth feedback. It was so amazing. I mean, the fact that he spent time doing that for us was just above and beyond. He shot a whole loom video walking through us through his experience and was so genuinely giving in his positive and constructive feedback that we knew we had someone special in our community. In fact, he's had a big, big part to play in how we've shaped Capsho since then. And then we launched Capsho Collective and come on now, it was a no brainer for him. Not only for him, but for a lot of people, especially when he emailed me to tell me about some of his results. I still have his email right here and I'll give you some of the highlights. He said and quote, and after doing some quick maths, all for a little over $0.50 an hour. Think about that. I outsourced all my copy to my assistant Ie Capsho and get a fantastic output. That gets me to a copy and paste output 80% of the time. The other 20% of the time the outputs are 90% to where I want them. And that's where adding my own flair comes into play. Analytics wise, I went from maybe five to ten downloads a month to honest to God 60 to 70. Plus I'll attach some screenshots. Instagram email is the next place that I'm aiming to double down on in terms of outreach, but with just posting what Capsho creates, maybe with some minor edits, I'm consistently getting between 103 hundred views per reel. Compare that to pre Capsho, where it was maybe one to ten likes of views in closing, Capsho has made my life so much easier, and I can now take those same three to 5 hours per episode and crank out three to five episodes. That's a 500% increase in output when I'm firing on all cylinders. Where else are you going to find that kind of ROI? Wow. Wow. With an email like that, I mean, I knew I had to speak to him about what he's actually specifically doing. That is getting him up to seven times the number of downloads a month. And growing and growing, by the way. But before we get into that, who even is Rasean?

Rasean Hyligar 00:04:43

Everybody. My name is Rasean Hyligar. I am the founder and host of Motivate Grind Succeed and the Motivate Grind Succeed Podcast. I like to describe myself as being a systems engineer by day as I don't know if you have video recording on, but that's what the hats there for. Engineering by day and then podcaster by afternoon and weekends and fitness guru by night. So that's what I do. My podcast is very focused on what I call the four foundational cornerstones of faith, fitness, finance, and fellowship. So those are the four cornerstones that we focus on so that you could be able to achieve personal success in your life, whatever that may look like to you.

Deirdre Tshien 00:05:19

So Rasean was pretty much born to be a speaker from an early age, and I mean even a teeny tiny two year old, he was speaking in front of large numbers of people in church congregations. People would go out of their way to find his mother just to tell her that Ray Sean was going to be a speaker someday. It was similar in high school as well. When he joined the speech team, he would get commended all the time about how well he narrates and how well he uses his voice to get his points across. It's no surprise then that he found his way into podcasting.

Rasean Hyligar 00:05:50

I'm a firm believer that if we're alive today, that means we have purpose. And honestly, I think this is my podcast a lot. And I apologize if it sounds a little bit morbid, but this is like the best way I can kind of get it across, and that is that if you're listening to me right now, that means you are not dead yet, which means you still have purpose in this life. So why in the world then, are you sitting on your butt just wasting your day away thinking, oh, well, I mean, I don't know what I want to do with my life. You're still here, which means you have something, some God given gift that you have to give to the world that for some reason or another, you're probably not giving right now. And so my goal was to say maybe to just try to help people. And so my thing was, I like this podcasting thing. It sounds promising. Let me look into it some more. And so that's exactly what I did. I looked into it some more, and then I figured out, oh, I kind of like this. I can start it. I can kind of put my information out there of the advice that I was given to help me fulfill what I was born to fulfill. At least what I felt like was my God given purposes with the gifts I was given and be able to share that with other people now and then. It just seems like everything was just meshing together ever so perfectly, just like a perfect red velvet cake. I don't know if you know, but I love red velvet cake, so it meshed together perfectly just like that. And I was just like, you know, I kind of like this. And that was back in November of 2020 when I first put it together first started. So that's kind of how I came to do the job that I'm doing and how I came to being able to do the podcast that I'm doing now.

Deirdre Tshien 00:07:25

You can imagine that someone like Rasean may have launched his podcast with pretty high expectations. After all, he's been told all his life that he was born to be on some kind of stage. So how was his podcast doing?

Rasean Hyligar 00:07:38

Zero, zilch. Nada. Nothing. Okay? Not a single listen for the first, I would say, like 30 some episodes. And so for everybody who has great memory out there, unlike me, who has a memory of a goldfish, if you all understand, they're about 52 weeks in a year. If we're looking at the first 30 to 40 some episodes, that means if you do the math, I was doing podcasting for almost an entire year with literally less than, like, ten listens across all 40 episodes. It was insane. I remember now the days when I would look at my analytics and just say, well, it's another month. Zero episodes, that's fine. Or at least zero listings per episode. That's fine. We're just starting out. It's good. After like almost a year or so, again, it's getting back to the whole burnout thing. After a while of that, I was just like, man, I'm putting in all this effort, all this energy, and I'm getting all of nothing back. Not even one listener. This is unfortunate. So I had to go pull the iconic thing where I just went upstairs and I knocked on the door and I was like, mom, I have a podcast. Can you give it a listen? And so that's when I got my first listener. I was like, yes, I'm listening to her. We're on the road. Next step up, we're going to be hitting up entrepreneurs on fire, letting them know we're coming up next to him. I was like, all right, cool. But in all seriousness, though, for the first 40 some odd episodes, I was just like, oh man, I'm not getting really anybody to listen. I'm not getting like any traction whatsoever. It's just I'm talking into a void. That's what it felt like. I was talking into a void. And again, I have my old microphone tone, but I'm not going to get it right now. But if I had, I would say this was the microphone here, and I'm just talking into it, and there was nobody on the other end of it. And that's how it felt for the first 40 some odd episodes. I mean, I was doing everything. Like I said, I was doing everything. I was doing my titles, my episode show notes, my episode descriptions. I was doing my social media captions. I was doing social media outreach and trying to post images and audiograms and the whole nine you think of it, I was probably doing it minus email. But everything there, I was doing it. I was absolutely doing it. And I was seeing absolutely this much zero, absolutely zero return on my investment. And so after like a year, I was thinking, man, is this even worth it? Like, I was feeling mentally drained, mentally exhausted, and you could actually go back through the episode. I never removed the episode. So you can go back and see in the history I think it's around in the 40 episodes or so, we're actually saying that I'm taking. And I absolutely needed that break because I thought I was doing a fantastic job at what I was doing. And I could realize now, looking back, the message was good. The content was pretty good, but there was no way for me to get it out there. There was some piece that I was missing that wasn't allowing the message to be spread as much as I wanted it to be. And also at that time, remember, too, I was going off of a bunch of information, of just, oh, spread it by word of mouth, spread it by instagram, and spread it by this, spread it by that, and doing all those kind of things, which I was doing. But I wasn't really seeing any return on my investment. So I thought, okay, maybe I'm just not going hard enough. That's got to hustle harder. And so I just kept doubled down. I started posting two or three times a day, and after a while I just completely burned myself out. And I had to take like maybe three or four months off, just completely off of the show. Just posted nothing, did nothing, and just completely went back to the drawing board and said, I actually even had a moment for full transparency. I even had a moment where I was thinking like, is this really what I want to be doing? Because I was like, the YouTube in the past failed. The drop shipping in the past failed. All the multiple businesses I tried in the past failed. Even like little reposting of YouTube videos for trying to get people to cut all those things, they all failed. And so I was thinking, well, this is probably just another failure. I mean, I gave it my best shot. Is this really what I need to be doing? But something, I don't know what it was. I'm going to say it was God, but something said, no, you got to give it one more shot. You got to go back in. It was like a void. I know I said I was speaking into a void, but at that time I was thinking like, it still felt like when I wasn't doing it, I felt like I should be doing it. Even. It was weird. It's really hard to explain. Even though I was burnt out and I just did not want to do it, part of me still wanted to do it, regardless of the burnout. And that's when I started realizing I think this is something I need to be doing. I think this is something that's definitely my calling, because I know people can definitely relate to. If it's something that you really, truly want that badly, no matter how tired you get of it, you're still going to always be drawn back to it. That's the feeling that I had towards the podcast. And so after that long hiatus, then I came back renewed. I came back with new strategies, I came back with new ideas. And that's when we started hitting the show hard. And that's when I started seeing more growth.

Deirdre Tshien 00:12:33

Tell me something, did you listen to that and know a little something about how Rachel was feeling in those moments? Because for me, as Rachel was telling me his story, I immediately knew exactly what he was going through. I have done all those things. I have felt the similar frustration, my difference. I don't know if I would have been able to stick with it as long as he has. Honestly, I absolutely admire the fact that he did not give up. And because of his internal motivation and his grind, now he's succeeding. See what I did there? Motivate grind, succeed. So my rah, even if I do say so myself okay, I'm just kidding, kind of. So how did he do it? What did he start doing differently that finally saw his download numbers grow exponentially? We'll get into it right after this break. I'm joined by a Capsho collective OG, who has stuck with podcasting for Gosh a lot longer than I probably would have in those same circumstances. Someone I admire so much because he knew that it was only a matter of time before his audience would find him, and they are to the tune of seven x the growth in downloads in recent months. So I asked Ray Sean to share the three specific things that he has been doing differently that has led to his increase in download numbers. And even though I asked for three, as usual, he had to over deliver and he give you four. I mean, technically it's still three, but he cheated a little bit by calling it Zero five.

Rasean Hyligar 00:14:03

So my tip number one for being able to get that return, that return of listeners, is I would say we're just squishing to start from the top and work our way down. So the first thing people usually see, episode title. Boom. You need to have a good title. Unfortunately, it might depending on the niche that you're in with podcasting, it might need to be a tiny thing, just like, I don't know if you all know about to me about salt bait, how he sprinkles a little bit of salt onto the food. You just have to have that much of clickbait in there, just enough to get people really hooked on something. So, for example, mine is a very tips based channel, right? Or tips based podcast. And so mine is a lot of five steps to do this, seven tips for that, three tips for this. Here's the one thing that you need to understand about this part of your life. So mine is very naturally into more of that clickbaity thing, or at least clickbaity even. I don't really like the term clickbaity, but that's the best word I could think of right now. That's the one that's tip number one is that your episode titles need to be captivating to the audience. So number one, actually, actually tip .5. Before we even get to that, you need to know your ideal audience. You need to know who it is that you're talking to. If you have no idea who it is that you're talking to, how are you going to make a title that's going to resonate with them? So that's actually tip .5 is know who the person is that you're talking to. So know what show are you trying to create. If you haven't created one already, or if you do already have a show but want to increase it, ask yourself, do I know what my ideal person is? So create like a straw man, not physically, I don't want to go to a barn or anything. But physically, in your mind, create a person who fits your ideal audience. Literally everything. Create everything. Like how tall are they? How much do they weigh? What are their beliefs? What is this, what is that? What do they do on the weekends? What is their pain point? What is their struggles, what do they enjoy? Literally, that whole thing is going to be a lot more work than you think it is. And what you do is you create that caricature and then you make all your episodes with whatever it is in mind, facing towards that person's pain point or what they want to listen to. You do that. And that's where we go back into tip one, where it's first the episode title. What is somebody that this caricature that you created would then be willing to say, oh, that looks interesting, and click on it without second guessing. So that's tip number one is have really good episode titles. And tip .5 is actually know who it is that you're actually talking to.

Deirdre Tshien 00:16:24

See what I mean when I say he cheated a little bit, right? The great thing is that I know incredibly well how important that Tip .5 is. I know personally, personally, and I might have shared this with you in another episode about how continuing to come back to this one thing of knowing my specific ideal audience, or caricature, as Rachel and calls it, has literally been the make or break for any of my ventures, whether in business or in podcasting. So what I twisted Rasean's arm to do was to give us what he calls his caricature designer, a document that he's agreed to share with you to help you design your ideal listener. You can find that in the Show Notes. And to a company, that is a bonus clip that we recorded about how he has gone about thinking through creating that for his own podcast for the Motivate Grind Succeed podcast. So go ahead and grab those two free bonus resources in the Show Notes. So Rasean spoke about how important the episode titles were to get those increases in downloads. And I was curious because I always want these episodes to be as tangible as possible. What was he doing before and what did he start actually doing differently to make his titles really effective?

Rasean Hyligar 00:17:39

So before when I was doing the episode titles again, I had no idea that software out there existed to be able to help me to generate these things. And as of also, when I first started off again, Hindsight is always 2020. I had no idea about SEO either. So that was one of the things I just had no idea I was putting something out because it sounded good to me, which is why I mentioned 0.5, because my caricature was literally me. I created the person of me saying I would want to listen to this because I have this pain point and I have that, which is great, that helped. But what changed was that I realized, okay, but people like me also, if I wanted to keep the caricature of me, for example, I thought to broaden it just a little bit, not too much. If you broaden it too much, then you help nobody, but just a little bit to the state of saying like, okay, here are my pain points. But here's something else. There's also a pain point of mine that maybe I don't want to admit, or here's a pain point of mine that I probably don't even know exists. So that comes into more experimentation. And so adding and subtracting different things does mean people who have a podcast or people have businesses, you know, it's so dynamic, it's not even funny. So constantly adding and subtracting to this caricature that I keep mentioning helped a lot. So that's one thing that changed was that the ideal listener or the person that I was definitely trying to get the ears and attention of changed a little bit. And then episode titles, those also changed. The structure of them, not so much as I still relatively kept the same kind of structure of the top five things you need or the top seven things you need. So in terms of structure, that didn't really change so much. However, the word choice did. And that was the important key part, because, again, like I said before, I had no idea about SEO, and I had no idea that there was some software out there that could help me to be able to enhance my SEO. Insert drumroll, please. Capsho. That's where Capsho came in and was just like, basically Capsho just said, you know what? You suck at this. Gimme that. Let me do the SEO for you since you're so bad at it. And then letting you reverse engineer what I did with with your little technical mind and figure out how SEO works. So that's what I did. I started using that. And so if you go back to before I took the break in episode 40 something to after you'll see the episode titles, they haven't really changed a ton in terms of their structure, which is why they won't look too different. But in terms of the word choice that was there, that changed. And then also a bunch of SEO things changed, which we'll talk about a little bit later. But first of all was that the SEO in those episode titles changed. The length, again, stayed the same. How they were structured stayed the same, but the word choice definitely changed. Just to literally changing a word from maybe like something like, I don't know, just thinking off top of my head, something like the three things that you may not know about finance to something like these three steps you should not miss for your next passive investment. Or something like that, right? So instead of just saying finance in general, because I thought that was great, I'm talking about finance. People want to know about finance because I'm into finance like that. But what about finance that SEO pizza is missing? And that's when Capsho said, yeah, you stopped. Hear the word finance out of there, throw in passive investment, and boom, numbers started going up because it's more targeted. It's more towards what people actually want to listen to. And yes, at the same time, you can say, oh, well, if I put that in there, people who aren't into passive investments won't come in to my end. My answer is good. It's good that they don't come in, because if you make it too general and then you might have a huge spike in listeners, but you won't have a very niche audience towards what it is that you're actually wanting to preach to them about. So definitely episode titles. SEO Optimized Episode titles Definitely the way to go. Hashtag thank you. Capsho. Can't live without it.

Deirdre Tshien 00:21:19

And we so appreciate you, Rasean. Thank you for those kind words. On a serious note, Rasean mentioned SEO and the importance of specificity to SEO. That's something we'll talk more about on this podcast because it was a lesson that I really struggled to learn and apply for the longest time. I don't know about you, but I sometimes find myself getting caught up in wanting to serve and talk to everyone. The ironic thing is that when you do that, not only will your message not resonate with the actual individual person you're actually need to be serving, but it doesn't get found by them, so it doesn't connect with them and it doesn't even get found by them. The algorithms on any platform, search or social actually don't help you when you are broad with your topics. So Ray Sean is 100% correct when he talks about what he's learned in effectively titling his episodes to get found and clicked. Okay, so let's get into his second tip.

Rasean Hyligar 00:22:17

So my tip number two is definitely the episode Show Notes. And now when I say Show Notes, let's just get this out of the way first, because there's two different things that people think about when they think about their show notes. They think about there's the episode Show Notes, and then there is like the episode descriptions. When you click on Apple podcast, Google podcast, and spotify that's the three big ones, you'll see a description that is there. So I'm talking about episode description. So I'll talk about that along with the show notes. But the main thing that I'm talking about right now is what you would put on your personal website and things like that. Let's just say my show notes were just god awful. They were just horrendous. Sometimes they were so bad, I just didn't even make them when I was making them myself. So that was a whole section that was either lacking, you would not believe in extent, or it was just completely omitted. Completely because they were so bad. It took too long for me to make and at first I saw no type of benefit from them. I'm just explaining what it is in the episode. Why would I do? Because in my mind then was if I'm just explaining what's in the episode, people are just going to read it like it's a blog post and then not pay attention to the end. Again, to that, I would say, yes, some people will do that. That comes with the territory. Welcome to podcasting, and say some people will do that. But if people really want to hear the message behind it, they will still click play, they will still listen. Because, again, I'm getting listeners. Am I getting views and hits on the website? Yes. Am I also getting? Listens. Yes. So, I mean, it works both ways. So, again, that whole thing of people are going to watch it and do those and just watch the show notes and read them. Yes, that will happen. But because I added those, remember, like I said, I now got hits on the website, which means I'm now getting people onto my own personal platform. Oh, wait, wait, hold on. Where is this going? I'm getting people on my own personal platform now. So now I'm being able to have a chance at every individual person who's now coming onto the pole. They could be a potential avid listener. Hold on, hold on. So now now I'm not dependent wait, hold on. I think we're onto something. We're not dependent on Instagram, we're not dependent on Twitter to try to do this outreach. We're not dependent on LinkedIn. Now, all the things, of course, obviously help. I'm not saying don't do those. But what I'm saying is now we have the strength of having our own listenership on our own part of the internet. Which is something I learned from the drop shipping days of yes, you could do Amazon, yes, you could do Ebay, yes, you could do Walmart. But there's something about having your own WordPress site or your own shopify website. Have you come to your own section of the internet where you have full control over what's going on in that space? That's something special. So me being able to incorporate those show notes onto the website allowed for a lot more people to be able to come in, blah, blah, blah, people to be able to read those show notes. And then I'm starting to even see more listens, more attraction on the website. And people are actually staying on the website for longer because, again, with the caricature that I created before, someone who's interested in that. Says, oh man, I like this. What else do they have? What other guests of the interview? Oh, they have a blog. What more information can I garner from their blog? Oh my gosh. They have an email list. What's now in the email list? So now you just keep opening up more and more and more doors for them to say, I really like what this person is doing. I want to stick around for a long time. So show notes? Definitely. Again. Capsho. Great for that. Because I went from doing absolutely nothing and now outsourcing all the Capsho. I call Capsho my own personal virtual assistant. I'm like, hey, I have to do this. Maybe it's give it to Capsho. It's fine. Capsho will take care of it. That's what I do now. But Capsho completely takes care of all my show notes notes. And I had, again, this going for me, having no idea how show notes work. So now I'm able to look at it and say, I like this. I like this. I like this. Hey, don't really quite like that. Let me type this in. Put it up. Done. Okay, that has a little bit more of my terminology, my word flow, just the way that I talk in there and poof. Now it just sounds like so then I just put that into the show notes there. Then the second part I was talking about was episode description. I kind of do a little bit like a modified show notes version for the episode description. But again, I won't harp on this too much because again, show notes, again, already SEO optimized. Everything else. Capsho already makes SEO optimized. So it's literally just copy paste certain parts and certain words and just formatting it in a certain way that I kind of like to see personally. Because at that point, I'm just like it's already all SEO optimized. There's not really much else I really need to do at this point. So just put it all in there. And then that way what people see is part of the show notes, some of the chapter descriptions of what we talked about, especially if it's a longer episode, they might see even like a quotable or something. And then of course, there's some extra little tidbits I throw at the end, like connect with the guest. If there's a guest, connect with me. Yada, yada. But definitely show notes. Oh, man. Show notes. Do them, do them, do them, do them, do them. Because you tell your ROI on the Show Notes is huge.

Deirdre Tshien 00:27:03

I am lo V-I-N-G loving this. There is so much power in having Show Notes on a separate podcast website for all the reasons that Ray Sean has outlined. And for more, too. In fact, if you missed episode 29 of this podcast, where Bonner and I deep dive, deep dive into podcast websites and how you can effectively use them to build your audience and your income. Then go and check that, right, check that out right after this episode. Don't get go anywhere yet because we still have Ray Sean's third and last tip to cover.

Rasean Hyligar 00:27:39

Okay? So step number three I would say is definitely, I would say definitely utilizing again, I mean the, the star of this show by virtual assistant Capsho. And so I would say definitely utilizing this to then also create outreach material because oh man, let me tell you something guys. Again, I'm going to be fully transparent here. I'm sorry, Dave, I'm not going to ask for your permission. This can be fully transparent here, okay? Because before Capsho, I had no, also actually before I even start that, I promise it's not an ad for Capsho. This is just how helpful it is for me, okay? Full transparency capsule is just great. But I promise you it's just good, okay? It's just good. But before Capsho, I was not doing any sort of email marketing. That was the furthest thing from my mind whatsoever. Furthest thing. I was just focused on Instagram, get the Instagram, get to Twitter, get this, get that. And I was focused on getting all those things which Capsho again does do. And it's very helpful for that as well because again it's SEO. I'm getting a little bit more traction on those things. That's also not where my focus is fully 100% all the time either. Right? So my tip number three for everybody is, again, like I said, email listing, because email is so important. But my emails go to their spam folder, ask them to whitelist people, don't open my email. That's going to happen too. Sorry. It is what it is. I mean, if you use any kind of email, any kind of email client, whatever you use, whether you use, I don't know, aweber mailchimp, claudia, whatever you're using, you're going to see that there's always going to be however many emails you send, there's always going to be a certain percent of those who don't open it. It just, it is what it is. But again, this goes back to the show notes point that I made before, that if you can get a solid email listing, if you can get in their inboxes and big caveat, you already did everything else prior, you already able to rouse the suspicion with the episode titles. You're able to get people into their website or be able to get people, even if they're not on your website, be able to get people very intrigued by the information or the stories that you're giving on the podcast. Now people are just like, sounds almost a no brainer. Now they have to open your emails basically to see like, okay, now this person is in my emails. And then the best thing about emails, make sure no one else is around. Give out some secret sauce. You can personalize the emails, guys. Personalize the email, send first names. So now it looks like it's personalized, guys. Okay, game changer. Okay, game changer. But you can literally do stuff like that. And now you're in their inboxes now you're being able to build up that repertoire and being able to build up that personal connection. And my favorite part about emails, because that's where my focus is now going on, and that's where I'm taking the time to now try to build up and everything, is that once you got those emails in, now people can literally reply to those emails, and you get them directly into your email provider. And now you can respond back directly to those people. So now you're, oh man, do you know how good this looks for the listener? Look, you've already got them in with the episode title and the show notes. You're delivering them tons of value. You've already got them in onto your website, so now they're in truth with what you have to say. Now you have them on an email list where you yourself are responding. Oh my Lord, oh man, that person will never leave you. They will never leave you nor forsake you. I'm telling you right now, you have them, you have them right there. Because especially if you're responding to them, like I said, if you're responding to the person, it just builds up that extra level of I am a human being, I respond to you bonus points if you put in an accidental typo. Because now they know you're definitely a person, not just a robot responding. So now it's like, oh man, now you're building up this community and now this person literally has no choice but to basically they're basically begging you like, what's the next step now? I need some more from you. Like, I need to know more. And again, like I said before, will people not open it? Yes, we already know people will not open the email. Yada, yada, yada, okay, whatever. But we're focusing on the people that actually will open the email. The people who are invested. Those are the people you really want to attack. Want to attack the people who are already very invested and the people on the fence. I think it was, oh man, I probably put in the wrong name on it, but I think it was Vince Domani. I was watching him a while back because he's also a fitness coach. Salesperson like that in that space. I think it was him that said it is your goal as a coach slash a salesperson to be able to turn the people who say no's into maybes and then the maybes into yeses. So that's what we're trying to do here. You want to focus on the yeses and the maybes and then the nos. You still want to do some work with them, but sometimes it just will fit. And also as someone who has done coaching and someone who understands how coaching works. People are just not going to be a good fit and that is okay. Not everybody is going to come in and understand the message. The message is simply not for everybody. Because remember way back when we made the caricature, right? So if that person who's trying to come in to learn from you does not fit that caricature, they don't fit the caricature, which means they're not going to benefit from them. So there's no point in trying to force a square peg into a round hole. It's just not going to work.

Deirdre Tshien 00:32:47

You probably know by now that if you're a listen to this podcast, how important email is to grow your audience and your business. I actually spoke about a specific show notes funnel that I use to get leads from my podcast. That's episode 43 if you haven't already listened to it and you fully heard me talk about the three themes that Ray Sean has covered multiple times. One titles, two show notes, podcast websites and three emails. But the cool thing now you've heard about how someone who's actually doing it is doing it. I mean, I'm, I also actually do it and I share my own experiences, but that's one person. So I was so pleased that Ray Sean was able to share his own experiences with you as well. So you have no excuse, okay, if you haven't started yet, looking more deeply into optimizing your episode titles and show notes, if you haven't yet started building and emailing your email list, this episode is your sign. You're signed to start doing those things right now. And if you enjoyed hearing from me, Shaun, here's how you can keep hearing from me.

Rasean Hyligar 00:33:49

If you all want to find out more about me or about what I do, just check out my website. It's motivatesgrind succeed.com. You'll find out everything that that you want to know there. All the episodes are there, blog posts are there showing notes are there different ways to contact me also is on and about me page is on there if you want to find out more about me, if you want to. And if you're somebody even who, who thinks that they can, who is thinking, hey, maybe I can deliver some value. One of those four cornerstones there is a page where you can register as a guest as well. But I'm just putting it out there. Just hit my mic. If you want to be able to go ahead and do that, you can go ahead and do that, but definitely just check out my website, www dot motivate grindsacceed.com and you'll find all the information that you need there.

Deirdre Tshien 00:34:29

So go ahead and do that right now. And don't forget to also get the free bonus caricature designer that Rasean has so kindly shared. This is the three step framework to nailing your avatar and your podcast content and get the bonus clip that we recorded as well on exactly how he went through it for his own podcast. So you can listen to the example as you're creating your own. You can get all those free resources in the show notes. Once again. My name is Deirdre Tshien. Stay awesome.