Revolutionizing the Golf Experience: The Power of GolfLogix with CEO Pete Charleston

0:03 Hi. I'm Mike Burke from Elverst, Illinois. I play at cag Hill. Welcome to Golf Smarter. Hi. This is Tamaso Johnson in Seattle, Washington, and I play at the Links at inter Bay. This is Golf Smarter oneenty thirteen. All it takes is confirming that you have the read write. Now you're playing with confidence. That's what the app is all about. The golf Lodget app experience is really about playing with confidence, playing with precision, playing with intelligence. How do you get out there and just see the course, have that vision when you're standing on the tee, when you're making that approach on the green. Once you get pretty good at reading these green maps and approach, and let's not forget about approach, it's every bit as important as a green. Like when you get to see the green from the approach and where the pin is, your course management gets way better and you certainly score lower. And so once you get good at that, you can literally walk up behind your ball, whether you're using the phone, the book, the watch, and just take a very quick look and you'll never walk the putt again.

0:58 And it's not cheating. Most of don't get a play with the caddy. All this is is allowing any amateur to play without having the caddy behind him. But it's like someone whispering your friend, this put's a little uphill. I want you to hit it like two feet past and it's going to move right to left. I know your little rotten eyes are telling you left or right, but this is a right to left. Or revolutionizing your golf experience using the golf Logics app with the founder, Pete Charleston. This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf minds to help you lower your score and raise your golf IQ. Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome back to the Golf Smarter podcast.

1:44 Pete, Hello, Uncle Fred. Good to be back on the show. Okay, you can get away with that, right. Pete is friends with one of my nephews and who always, even in his fifties, calls me Uncle Fred, which is a adorable and so he introduces me when I go out to Arizona and I visit him and we go out and play at Arizona Country Club. He always introduces me as uncle Fred, so all his buddies call me Uncle Fred. Got to go with Uncle Fred, I want to be adorable too. You are, buddy. So this is the third time that you've been on Golf Smarter. First time we met on the show was well, the first time you were introduced to the Golf Smarter community was in November of twenty nineteen, and then you returned in June of twenty twenty. So it's great to have you back five years later to talk about what you guys claim to be the number one app in golf, and it's Golf Logics with an.

2:43 X with an AX. Yeah, it's great to be back on. Yeah, a lot, a lot has happened in five years. We were always moving and shaking and you know, trying to change things and tweet things, and you know, I think we made another, you know, big step since we spoke last. I'm so excited to hear about it. I've just returned from three weeks on vacation, not thinking about golf, letting everything publish on its own, which I set up ahead of time, including that grade Chim NaN's piece, but so so now here. I my head's back. As soon as I got back, first thing I told my wife I wanted to do is I need to go play some golf I mean, it's like I need to just go hit something. And so I was able to play a couple times and bring out the Golf Logics app, the new version, except I didn't have the upgrade available to me, so I still used it. And we'll talk about the details of that in a few minutes, but I want to go back and talk about other things that's been going on, because this is a fascinating story. You were a golf app playing app way head of the game.

4:02 Yeah, it's crazy. So my partner and I started this in nineteen ninety nine, so we are definitely we are old school for the golf industry. Twenty five years here, and you know, we were actually the first company to do a handheld GPS for golf. We ended up partnering with Garman. We were selling systems, handheld systems to golf courses all around the world. We have Pebble and Valderrama and Mission Hills in China, traveled all over the world. But we realized that the consumers that we wanted to get in the consumers hands, and you know, at the time, using electronic measuring devices they were illegal, illegal according to the rules of golf. So technically you put it close to handicap.

4:46 Yeah, and it was probably also what seven eight years before the iPhone came out and the whole app ecosystem. Happened yep, yeah, maybe ten. Years before the ecosystem happened. Yeah, So this device we with garment, I mean, it was great, but it was ahead of its time. And you know, back then, if you asked somebody you put ten people in a room and said what does GPS stand for, I'd say maybe one if they were a pilot or like a high end yachtsman. Other than that, they're just the personal navigation devices. They weren't out. The car nab wasn't there when we started this. So now it's just you know, like you know, GPS is everywhere you look, and everybody knows exactly what it is, what it does.

5:29 Well, you know, they made it easy for you, Pete. Our business model definitely improved after the GPS did, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, and then you went through so keep going with that evolution of how technology caught up with you. Yeah. You know, we kept slugging away and putting these things on golf courses, and I think we realized that this was not the model that was gonna, you know, put my kids through college. I actually didn't have kids back then, but. Now you're getting closed, now I do. Yeah, I got to actually think about it. Uh. But in two thousand and six, the USGA changed that stance, and you know, they allowed electronic measuring devices, and so we went back to our shareholders like, hey, you know, we need to raise more money. Let's go out, let's put this at retail. And uh, you know, in six uh, you know, we we kind of transitioned into this, you know, to the consumer market and had three just amazing years of explosive growth. We were on the you know, the Golf channel, if you remember they used to have the old thirty second infomercial and uh, you know, for the older members in your audience, like like me and you, the cob had cost us them accord and they were yucking it up. And you know, we spent more money on the Golf Channel in two years than almost anybody on these infomercials. And you know, it was it was a special time. We were just cranking. We were in all tons of golf courses, we were in all the major sports retailers, and you know, things were going great.

6:57 And then eight Arizon have felt it because we're a real estate uh you know, city, country or state, and we we kind of heard about the first phone that was going to come out with GPS, and we're like, I don't think people are going to keep buying this with this downturn. We need to find a better solution. And you know, sure enough, we we went to our shareholder and said, hey, we need more money. And I know we're doing the best we've ever done. It's time to pivot. We need to be on a phone because then that's going to be in everyone's pocket. And so we ended up being the first company to launch, you know, on on a smartphone. And funny enough, it was BlackBerry that the BlackBerry Curve that we launched on with this little you know screen about yay big and yeah, a little little keypad, but it was a touch screen, which was a treat for us because we were using you know, we didn't have touch screen with our prior handeld devices.

7:55 And then Apple came right behind it with their first phone, and you know, we just just took off again, and you know, I had this incredible run you know through the you know, call it all the way up to like sixteen. And in twenty sixteen, we saw the first tour players out on the green and they were they're holding a book on the green and we couldn't figure out what they were doing because we know you had the yardage books, right, they've had them for as long as you can remember. They've had little hand drawn yards books and they're out referenced. But this is the first time you start seeing people out on the green and you're like, you know, they're looking at it, looking at their caddy, and we're like, what do they have? And we got a hold of one and realized that they had mapped all the green contours and they had arrows and contours, and so we're going, oh wow, like this is something that no one else has, Like this is the pot of gold. Most everybody, including me, struggle reading greens, and you know, here you give the opportunity for every player to feel like they have a caddy standing behind and reading their putt. And it took us a long time to figure out how to harness it was a newer technology to harness this technology, and not only harness it, so we created something that you know, gave really viable putting feedback, but to actually put it in an app with a user interface that people could work with. Like at first we're like, oh, we got it, and then people are like, I don't even know what this means. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

9:27 People had never seen you know, the you know, the greens, and you know, we were the first company to launch, you know, in the app with these green contours and these we call them heat maps, which basically show the elevation so you know kind of in ours the red and orange and yellow or kind of the real you know, five six seven eight slope and then you know, as you get down to the blue and white, that's your real flat areas. And it was it was immediate. I mean people people were like, oh wow, this is this is just different. And then what's crazy is the last time we talked in twenty twenty. As a byproduct of this in app experience with Greens, we had so many people reach out and say, I love this, but I don't like taking my phone to the green. Can you give me a paper version of it? And we're like, yeah, we're a software company, you know, we don't do paper, you know, And it just kept yeah, just kept but I mean it just kept going and going and going and we're like, all right, there's something to this and yes, and so we're like, great, let's give it a try.

10:36 And well, of course we reach out. At the time in twenty twenty, no one was doing print on demand one, right, you know, Fred, you want to order the course down the street and you want to order one, I can't stock it because there's eighteen thousand courses just in the US. And so we had to figure out this inline printing solution that would take an order, send it through the system, kick a book out the other end, have the shipping software, put it in an envelope, and ship it right fulfill it all like in the same day. So we had to build it ourselves, which was an experience. And that's when I was talking to you last time. We had just built this crazy.

11:18 Correct yeah if I remember correctly, with a very expensive printing press. Oh yeah. We had these paper cutters and these binders that would like fold and staple. I mean, it's just I mean it was very interesting time. And I packed a lot of boxes and made a lot of trips to the post office, you know, as all entreprens do. Yeah, I mean it was, but it was it was a fun time, but ultimately it went so well that we ended up getting we found a fulfillment company that could actually do it. You know, I take this off our hands, like, you know, because then you can scale. And so since then, we we've we've done an amazing job, you know with these green books. The app is continue to be incredibly successful, and finally we we actually did our first major app overhaul.

12:09 We just redid the entire thing and launched in late April. So it's been a long time coming, but very exciting. So the books are still happening, You're still doing those, and you've said me to like, but I was like, wait a minute, I got a book here for the course that I play all the time, and I guess for country club players, which I'm not, but I have a favorite course. How often do they pull that out? It's like, yeah, yeah, I got this, I got this. Are they still using the books? That's that's our target demographic? Really yeah, yeah, fascinating most And I'm you know, I am now I'm going to say it. I'm absolutely addicted to having, you know, my green book and we actually will talk about today, but I have it on the watch as well now just even better, But I'm addicted to having that with me at all times. Now. It's that Arizona Country Club which you've played. The green breaks are very subtle, but I probably break between my watch and my green book seven eight holes a day. I'm just not sure, you know.

13:24 And all it takes is confirming that you have the read write and now you're playing with confidence. And that's that's what this is all about. That's what the app is all about. Are the golf Loge app experience is really about, you know, playing with confidence, playing with you know, precision, playing with intelligence. You know, how do you get out there and just you know, see the course, you know, have that vision when you're standing on the tee, when you're making that approach on the green. That's that's what this whole new thing is all about. Well it's perfect because that's what this game is all about. You play with confidence, you play better. It's that simple. Because how often you stand over a shot going oh yeah, so sure about this? You feel your tension all the way down your body and your head's dictating I'm going to make a mistake here. So playing with confidence anything you can get is awesome. Now, is it legal? Tell me where we are with that and what's going these days.

14:26 Everything in our app is legal. The green books are one hundred percent complaint. You know, we don't make any non complaint green books. You can use those in any tournament where they're allowed. And so we've got junior golfers, the best junior golfer in the country or buying these books. You know, we got high school, college, you know, we've got you know, people playing in there, you know, Buddies, member guest, you know, they're they're definitely out there and everywhere the app. The one difference in our app and we're with us relaunch, we stripped out the abilit to turn off the non compliant features, but we're going to put it back in here shortly. We just had to get the app live. But the only thing that you cannot do, which is a really cool feature by the way, when you're on the green, we built a physics engine that allows you to basically, you know, tap the screen here's the cup, and then you just here's the ball, and then you hit read my putt, and it runs a physics engine and will predict the perfect putt and so the rea it'll tell you right on the screen just like a caddy. Would you know, hey, I want you to aim twelve inches short and one ball left.

15:40 Whoa, it's amazing because now you're putting name point and everybody else out of business. That's incredible. Remind me to talk about a point. I want to come back to that after after we get through this. Yeah, game point. I'm glad I brought it up. But amazing technology and which, by the way, you don't need it. I mean, once you get pretty good at reading, uh these green maps and and and approach, and let's not forget about approach like it's every bit as important as a green Like when you get to see the green from the approach and where the pin is, your course management, you know, gets way better and you you certainly score lower.

16:23 But yeah, you can really pinpoint your distances at that. Point, right yep. And so once you get good at that, you can literally walk up behind your ball, whether you're using the phone, the book, the watch, and just take a very quick look and you'll never walk the putt again, you literally And it's not cheating, it's I mean, most of us don't get a put of the caddy, right, This is all this is is allowing any amateur to play without having you know, without having the caddy behind them. But it's like someone whispering you'roine fred ankle Fred. I want you to this puts a little uphill. I want you to hit it like two feet past and it's going to move right to left. I know your little rotten eyes are telling you left or right, but this is a right to left or you know what I mean.

17:05 So it's but you don't have an AI voice talking to me right, You're just looking at this. Should I better? I better? Uh? Yeah, I'd love to be the voice of that. Hey, this is uncle Fred, and your butt's going to break from left to right about four inches. Yeah, don't mess this up. Trust trust the read. Absolutely, trust the read. Trust the read. I need to go back to something because I'm really curious about this. When you first saw somebody with a book that had the greens, you know, mapped out, and you were like, what is that? You said, we found somebody whose book we can look at.

17:50 Who was oh that is we can't tell you that, but uh we did, uh we we did get a hold of one, and it was it was hard or you know, you know, getting one. But you know once, once you saw it, we were like, oh wow, now I will tell you this when we saw it. You know, I'm over fifty as well, and my eyes don't work quite as good as they used to. But the green books that we saw are like, oh no, no, no, we're going to make these things readable for people over the age of fifty as well. So we made bigger arrows and boulder arrows and boulder colors. Yeah, it was. It was very difficult to decipher. But most tour pros are you know, in their twenties and thirties, you know. Yeah, so it's the same with the caddies. So that was the only subtle tweak we made there.

18:42 So where does this information come from? Because you can't go out and map every single green I mean it's mapping courses is one thing. And getting the GPS data on distances, you know, that's great from you know, Google or wherever it comes from. But where do you go at the distances, elevation change directions, all that information for greens? How do you acquire that? There's a bunch of different teams. Yeah, there's we've got we're almost a twenty. I think we're a little over twenty thousand now worldwide. Amazing. But yeah, there's a bunch of different techniques. You know. One of them is actually you do go to the course with a scanner, you do go to the course with a drone. And then there's you know other solutions where you have you know, low flying aircraft you know that that use this technology called light ar that captures this incredible data. I mean it really truly is you know, if you leave the flagstick in you see it like if you if you left you know, a golf ball on the ground, that's the kind of elevation you can actually see. It's it's that detail. And so you know, when you're looking at these greens and you're not trusting me, and you're like, Pete, I don't believe it, and you're you know, I don't believe in your greens, it's you know, in the center meter type of accuracy. And so it's it's your eyes that aren't lining you up correctly. And that's the art form here, you know, the first time, first few times you got to look at it. Oh

20:15 and a helpful hint is imagine you're standing behind your ball, you're looking at your read, you're looking at the pin. If you poured a giant bucket of water on the green, where would where would the water run off to? Not even. You just you just need to get your brain like, oh, so those arrows, if it's going, you know, slightly out the right and coming back to the left, that means it's you know, a little right to left breaker. If you're seeing the arrows point towards you, that's an uphill putt. If you're seeing the arrows point away from you, that's a downhill putt. And then it varies depending on how much those arrows are turning in point learn. Yeah, we learned from on golf smarter years ago from a golf course architect, and I'm like, I remember asking him, you know, people say it breaks to the water, it breaks to the ocean, it breaks to the mountain. Is that true? And they went, no, No, it's all about irrigation.

21:11 You can't have a flat green because you have to have the water roll off somewhere. So it all it's all about where the water would go if you're pouring a glass of water or something. But it's all about where the water is for irrigation purposes, to get the water off the green. Yeah, yeah, And there's a lot of courses where you're right where oh yeah, this breaks towards the city. This breaks towards the It doesn't till it doesn't until the architect took that green and you know, made it look like it's going like this, and yet it's actually uphill. You know, you see it all the time and it looks like a downhill. Put it's actually uphill. And that's because the architect. This is what he did. And you know, this doesn't lie. This tells you exactly what the ground does.

21:53 So whether you're approaching from the fairway or you're you know, you've got a pitch shot, or you've got a chip shot, a bunker shot, you know, or you're putting on the green, you know what's going on up there and that that will help you shave a ton of strokes of your game. And you're saying that the information that you get on the app, you'll also if you have an Apple Watch or I guess if this works Android and Apple. Yes, So we launched on Apple first, and that's kind of our testing ground. And I know I was on a call last Friday morning, I believe our development call, and I think by mid to late this month, in June, June of twenty five, June of twenty twenty five, we will have the Android done as well.

22:46 Okay, okay, so you're telling people when we recorded this, because they won't be hearing this probably till August. But that's well, great, Now, what kind of impact. One of the things that I get frustrated about when I'm using an app and then i'm it also works on my phone, is my watch battery dies by the thirteenth hole. There were real battery drains. Yeah, and when we launched let's go back, let's back up to two thousand and nine, when we came out on the first you know, smartphone battery issue was huge, you know back then, like they just hadn't figured out the batteries, and you know, you had to come up with all these solutions to protect the golfer and their battery, and so they had a great user experience. I will tell you now, if you've got a problem with your battery on your phone now with Golf, GPS or any app for that matter, you need to get a new phone.

23:39 Because the new phone is just they don't have any battery issues. We have an iPhone ten yeah, it's time to well thirteen or fourteen, it's time to upgrade. Yeah, yes, it is what it is. But with respect to the watch again, now we've we've got a new problem we're solving for the newer ones as you get into the you know those the bigger ones, the ultras, those things, the battery life is really good and they're going to continue to get better and better. But just know we're continually working on different methods and features and color palettes and you know, things that will you know, bring the brightness down but yet you still be able to see. You know, we're we're definitely always thinking about the user interface and how to make that experience work.

24:28 Were you a serial entrepreneur leading up to nineteen ninety nine when you launched this the first time? Were you dabbling in all these different things? Where did you come from? Fred, I've never had a job, which is a good or bad? I guess I don't know. My resume is you know, you know, kind of funny. But now, before before we started this, you know, my partner Scott and I we we created a company called Golf I mean Premium Cigars International. We were part of this group that launched the product. Were the first company to put premium cigars in humid orders in convenience stores across the country. Oh yeah, yeah it. Was NBA guys or no, yeah.

25:13 I love Nbay absolutely. Yeah. That's fascinating. Yeah, that's fascinating. And since ninety nine when you started golf Logics as that been totally your focus. Yeah, are you still dabbling in other ideas? Now? This is I mean, as you can see, as we've talked through all these different pivots we've made over the years, this is an investors Oh yeah, all the things that you're navigating on a daily basis, you know, there's not a lot of time left to go out and come up with other crazy ideas. But you know, as long as we're we're continually creating and building and you know, innovating, you know, and things like you know, when we'll I know, we'll get into it. But this new three D view that we came out with in our app, it's freaking crazy like it it's just it's crazy like when you look through the screen and you see what's in front, you're like, oh oh wow, you know, it's it's definitely the wow factor.

26:10 It definitely is now just before we started recording, you helped me upgrade to the premium model, and since I lived next to a golf course, I was able to just like tap right into it. And you've got a three hundred and sixty degree view. If you're holding your phone up, you can turn it. You can turn your body all the way around and see everything with shot direction. It's it's really remarkable. Oh look there's the Milky Way. Now that's not on there, but good idea. You don't want to put the stars in there. We will break down the new functions and features of this three d amazing golf Logics app. But I need to get to aim point. Is now the time? Can I ask you about aim?

27:04 Yeah? Yeah, Well it's funny because you said, oh, this is going to put a point out of business, and you know I would say it's actually the opposite. You know, we we know the folks at a point and and I know a lot of people that use their their their great system, right. I mean, you have to spend some time to learn the system. But if you learn their system, you are a better putter. You're a better putter like I just there's no doubt about it. And one of the things that's hardest in their learning process is you got to you know, you kind of get the slope and you're holding a series of fingers up and you come up with a number. Well, we have the number. And there's a setting actually in in in the golf Lyders app where you can actually lay the instead of having you know, just the arrows and the contours, you can actually drop in the slope percentages so you can look actually what the slope is, you know, between you and the ball. So I would say this is actually a friend of uh you know, a yeah, yeah, we we we solve one of the problems you know that you need to solve to be able to do the rest of it that is important with aim points.

28:17 So no, they're they're great. Awesome, awesome. So tell me about some of the testimonials that you get about people who are just blown away by using this app. Well, I have to start with the inverse first, and only because we're in the heat of it right now. But when when you we haven't done a major like a major app you know, overhaul in probably six years, right right, you get a lot of people, you know, imagine we have hundreds of thousands of people using our our app on any given weekend and when yeah, thank you. But when you change, change is not always easy, so golfs oh boy. So the first wave of feedback is never good. It's always the people that are like god, you know, they're just and you're like, yeah, our customer now, and I get it. Changes changes hard, but you know, just know, we're just trying to make a better app experience and we're not going to nail it in the first month of the first two months, right. I mean, we do all of our testing and you know, we've got focus groups and all these different people out trying every before we launch. But you can't predict what you really don't know, and it takes a lot of rounds.

29:30 But the feedback is valuable. You know when someone calls and said, ah, is that okay? Why are you saying that? Oh oh, we didn't think of it that way. Okay, what if we tweak this? So we do a lot of active work with people that call into complain and we turn them into you know, coach us up, how do we make it better? Right? And and you learn. How much can you learn when somebody goes, I love this, thank you? I mean it does feel good, don't get me wrong. Fred like, yeah, yeah, but you don't make any changes. You don't just like we go like, oh we're good today. Yeah yeah, you buy it. Okay, fine, we're great. Yeah. So we get a we do and have you know, with our Apple reviews and this and that. But we're able to reach out and you know, work with these folks and understand their their logic, and you know, some of it is unreasonable, and you know, others were like, wow, what a great idea. That's not hard to do. We're going to fix that. So, I mean, anybody that's got our app, you're going to see updates, probably certainly within the first three months after a launch. I mean we're throwing an update out every two weeks, you know, at a bare minimum, you know, wow. I mean, because it's just and there are a lot of times it's just real little little things. You know. One of the things that you know, I just my feedback. You know, the watch is going live this week with the new build, and you know, I got it using the test build,

31:00 and I'm like, this is too small. I know you wanted to jam all this information on here, but I'm telling you, I don't wear my glasses when I'm mountain playing and I'm wearing polarized you know, sunglasses, and I can't see these numbers, and oh, you know, and a lot of our developers or you know, twenties, thirties and early forties, and you know, they're like, what do you mean you can't see it. I'm like, well, you just wait. I want to say, yeah, right, don't worry, don't wait while you're working on it, get to it now. Yeah, just trust me on this one. Yeah, I mean those are the type of you know, real kind of deep dive as we take into you know, the user interface.

31:45 I want to talk about my user experience with it again. I was not using the new, the upgraded version yet, but it's still using the latest version of the free app. And let's let everyone know there's a free app here at golf logics dot com or on your app store wherever you get it. But I was telling you that I played a couple of rounds this week and I was using it, and I compared it with the stats that I got from Arcos, which I don't have to pay attention to, right, I have the Arcos tabs on my on my clubs, and so at the end, I wanted to look back and see how it compared. And because Arcos is really detailed and it's very good, but it's a whole different kind of system, right, very very different.

32:35 But statistically, you guys were right on the money as far as my score, fairways, greens and regulation, number of putts, and but you gave me things like how many misputts, how many green side bunkers, how many pitches, how many you know, like things like that were on a simple look at the end of the round. All this information is like, that's really valuable stuff. I love that. Yeah, we we and Anarcos has been in the game a long time and they've they've they've done a great job building their you know, their technology. You know, their technology has a lot to do with learning after you play, right, like, you know, going back and looking at They've made a seamless way for you to collect a lot of performance data while you're out there, club distances and such, and so when you're done, you're actually able to look at in a lot of different new and unique ways. Our primary goal has been how do I help you while you're on the course, right, And so I'm trying to make you smarter why you play. I'm trying to help you lower your score while you're playing the game of golf in it, and we do offer you know, a number of we get real deep. If you start, we default only the four things on, but if you click on them expanded, like you said, you must have done it, like you can get down and you can get really down on the nitty gritty and track a tremendous amount

34:08 of things out there, and then you get to look at it afterwards. So I feel like we're the best of both worlds. But we don't at this time, and not to say we won't hear in the future, but we don't auto track your shots, right, we don't. We're not telling you actually have to just tap the screen on the t box, tap the screen on the fairway, you know, if you want your distances. Whereas you know a company like Arcos's, you know it's swing detected. Right right, Okay, So may I make a suggestion, please a criticism? But what when you have when I'm entering the data of the score, you know, if I was in a bunker or if I hit the fairway, enter that data at the end of each hole, which is not a problem, and I'm looking forward to doing that on my work if possible. But on the greens when you're finished, it asked you about did you go left of the hole, right of the hole, above the hole or below the hole right? And it kind of confused me because here I am on a downhill putt that went long. Am I love the hole? Or am I below the hole? Right? Because now I'm coming back, so I'm now below the hole, So I would have preferred my suggestion and do whatever you want with this is long or short, yep, versus above or below?

35:33 Okay, No, that's it's funny, it's great feedback. What the goal of what we're trying to achieve is are you leaving the putt short? You know? Are you hitting it long? Are you missing the right? You're missing the left? But maybe the terminology could be improved to where you know. It's yeah, I mean I had I had a long, very long I had a very long downhill putt. Yeah, right, that I left three feet past the hole. So I'm like, which, by the way, is what you're supposed to do? Yeah? Exactly. No, I was happy with the butt. That's not the issue. I too, putted on a seventy foot put my first one. But and what I found out is two of the people I was playing with had bets on how far I was going to be from the hole because they, you know, we were at the fourteen to fifteenth hole at that point, and I was I was hitting my leg shots pretty well. Yeah, and then this guy like, yeah, I had you at seven feet and you were at six so that's pretty good.

36:30 But anyway, I was, now I am below the hole going up, but I went long, so I didn't know, like, was that above the hole? I know, I didn't know how to respond to that. I I'm gonna I already I already locked that in and and things like that are very easy, right, that's a late change, yeah, one word. Yeah, it's not a you know, a true UI change where we have to redevelop something. It's like, hey, how about our terminal? Is you know long short? Do you miss long short right or left left? You're right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, listen. I I don't have a lot of criticisms about this app.

37:13 And I've used a lot of golf apps. We featured a lot of golf apps on this show. Uh, And I'm really impressed with this one. Uh well, you call me uncle Fred. How can I not be? So let's get into the new stuff and the AI and three D. Let's let's dig deep. Sure, the the true groundbreaking thing that that we launched in this new you know, overhaul is the ability you're standing on the first tee or at home for that matter, but you're standing on the first t and you're looking down the fairway and you're seeing those trees on the left, You're you're seeing that bunker on the right, and you're seeing you know, kind of distances, your carry distances pop up in the field of you. So hey, it's two twenty five to the left bunker. It's you know too, you know, forty two to carry that left bunker. And it's so it's very obvious if you walk or drag your finger down the fairway, the view starts to change and so you're actually you're able to see, you know better, able to see what's up in front of you. So, you know, this is the first time someone's actually been able to It's always been a you know, we've tried to make our imagery, our whole imagery three D, and you know, and try all those things. But this is the first time you've actually had a real immersive experience, you know, when you're out there playing and if you actually in the setup process that you actually put in

38:43 your your club distances. You know, obviously in your in your mind, Hey, I hit my driver between this range, I hit my my irons, my wedges, blah blah blah. If you put that in, you can actually almost play around a golf you know, preview around the golf on a course that maybe you're going to go play, and it'll show you your club distances and where you would land. So it's really it's really interesting. It's you know, I can really see this if you're going to play your buddy's member, guest, or you're a junior golfer, a high school golfer and you haven't played a course. I mean, why would you not spend a half hour, you know, pre playing this course. Oh I don't need driver on this hole. Oh this is a three with all this.

39:29 Oh this is just my hybrid off the tee. Oh I've got to stay. I got to really watch out for the left side here. I hate to interrupt you, I'm sorry, but I know when I go to play new courses. I'll go to their website, of course website and watch the videos. As the holes. Well, this changes that dramatically by being in three D, and I guess what you're doing is eliminating line shots? Yeah, yeah, what's really out there? Can I Can I go over these trees? Do I have to go around? What's on the other side of these this? You know this dog leg? How far do I have to get to it? I mean that's remarkable.

40:16 Great information again, information. Again, It's it's that intelligence, you know, it's not playing smarter and that confidence, right Like when you're standing on that tee, unsure of what's up there, and you're like, I'll hit my now most of us, I'll hit my driver, you know, And then you get up and you're like, oh man, right over this bunker is the water and I couldn't see it, and you know, everything funnels down to the right. Now I'm blinded. You know, I'm blocked by a tree. You know, that shouldn't happen again. Like, so you you could take a different line or use a different club just by standing on the t box because you have this new information.

41:00 Tell me about some of your competitors that you look to and go, hmm, that's a good idea. Wow. Well, I would like to say we thought of everything first, but we've been in the game so long, you don't. I've been asked this a number of times. You know, how come you guys don't have you know, it's that question. And most we focus on the encourse experience. We focus on golf better, smarter, faster, you know, just score lower, all those things. What we have chosen not to do, and some of our competitors do and do very well, is the sense of community. You know. They it's the crap talking, you know, it's the you know, the banter back and forth leader boards and you know, things like that, being able to post your round to social media, you know, all those different things. We did a lot of that very early on. So in twenty eleven, twelve thirteen, when we were doing stuff before Facebook, right there was community driven and we realized it just wasn't at the time, it wasn't who we were, and so we focused on the encourse golf experience. But there's some great apps out there, you know that that provide a really you know, different service on the social side, and

42:33 who knows. I mean, we always go back and revisit things. But right now we've chosen to invest our time in R and D into things like this that makes your playing experience better while you're out there with this you know, new three D view. And you know, one of the other things we just launched is the fairway view, which you can toggle back and forth if you want to look at more of a traditional view. We used to have, you know, kind of a traced you know, a whole imagery like you'd see on a sim and then and then that was it, you know, but in our most recent launch we actually now included the actual true imagery on the surround. So now you're able to see the buildings and I'm sure I probably you're looking at it right now, but it gives you another layer and another piece of information. And that was technically definitely a challenge what we did there. And it looks easy you're looking at it now, but to make that work was was definitely, you know, technically challenging, but it's it's very cool. So now and we've got a target, right, so a tap target on every hole and so now as we don't always hit the ball down the middle of the fairway, right, So now all of a sudden, you're able to see you're in the other fairway. You're actually able to see it.

43:53 You're able to see what's in between, and you're still able to get distanced back to the hole and hopefully you have an errant drive tug one a little bit and and you're actually able Oh whatever, I'm only one seventy eight, uh, you know, and you hit it up on or near the green. And I just got out of the same with a bow gear apart instead of a double like we normally get. As I am, you're right, I am looking at the app as we're talking, and it's I queued it up to the hole right next to my backyard. Here there. You have a lot of different buttons on the screen. You've got, you know, the center of the green to the front to the back. You have a two D button and a three D button, right you want to explain those?

44:36 Yeah, the three D is the view that we discussed. This is the new groundbreaking you know view this, you know, immersive view from the t box or the fairway. But not everybody wants to work in that view, you know, And so we allow you to go back and see the we called the two D view that has the you know, the the imagery surround with the trace hole in the middle, and so that's it's super helpful there. Also you have a compass, a camera button, yeah, an airplane button, and what is the airplane button. That's that's our fly flyovers and it flies over in that immersive three D experience and it would use the cool thing if you don't even want to play around with it. We talked about previewing a course and playing around.

45:29 If you hit the flyover button, it's actually going to take if you fill in your club distances, and let's say it's a four hundred and twenty yard part four and you hit your driver two fifty, it's going to show your two to fifty driver where it would land, and then it's going to show what club you would hit in towards the green. So you you actually really quickly could flow through eighteen holes and show what clubs you would hit based on your own averages. Wow. And then you've got a button for club selection, which I'm running right through now. Yeah. Club tracking that would be what if you wanted to track your clubs more. Arcos like right, but and what I kind of like about this. It's not asking what kind of club are you playing? Right, It's like why is that relevant?

46:16 It's not. It's only about do you want. To you know, it's like, yeah, it's like a scan this and it's like I don't It's okay, fine, So it does it make does it make clubs choices for you? Does it tell you, look, you're based on your past, I think you should be hitting your eight iron here, blah blah blah. So no, and there's a reason for that. Okay, it'll that is illegal. Real climb, real time club recommendation while playing around the golf is not legal with the USGA. So yeah, so we've stayed out right, we don't want to provide that. It allows you to show where you're club would land if you hit a club, you know, but it does not it's not going to suggest clubs, right.

47:10 We've had it before and then we ended up pulling it out. Yeah, for that very reason. Yeah, I mean there's a balance between you know, making sure that your rules compliant, yeah, and providing a golfer with the tools to have more fun. Like some people just don't write, Hey, I'm not out here, I'm not trying to win the low gross here at a you know, at the state, you know, amateur level. I'm just trying to go out and have fun with my my pals, and you know, I want to make sure that the app has an experience that allows them to just enjoy themselves. So I just love this. Oh look at all these little things that I've just turned on by hitting the settings button. Oh that's a lot of information. Okay, so you take it.

48:01 Yeah. I love that you talk about playing smarter because you know who we are, you know, and that's hopefully it's not just the name of the show. Might able to use that, like, am I going to get a lawsuit in the mail? Here? Absolutely, Assist is already on the way, unless you want to sign an NDA or I'll trade you if you want to use my voice going it's Uncle Fred. It's Uncle Fred. Remember Fred, you will remember. You don't want to don't don't put from this far away off the green bad idea. Tell me so golf Logics one word l O g I X golf Logics dot com in your favorite app store. What are the costs involved? Starting it free?

48:44 The beauty of what we offer and we put our money where our mouth is we offer free so you download the app, like you said, you can go into the Apple App Store or the Android Play Store. You can go you know online if you do it on your phone, you can check out all the different features and then we have buttons that will take you right into your respective store, and then we actually give you a trial when when you're out there on the golf course. So you're going to get us see the immersive three D experience. You're going to get to see the three D flyovers, the new imagery with the you know, with the satellites around, and you're going to see all the touch point distances and the green reading all those things. And then you know, at the end of that trial, you know, we give you a seven day trial if you decide to, uh, you know, stay on and sign up.

49:30 That that that's amazing. If you don't, you're always going to get a distance to the middle of the green and you're going to get you know, the imagery of the whole. You just won't have some of the you know, those higher end features. But it's it's at sixty nine a year and quite reasonable. Yeah, I mean it's around the. Golf, it's around the golf and and for all these things, and anybody that tends to wager a bit, you know it is it is. It's not right. You make that one putt and you may pay for the whole membership. Right, and you'll get that putt because of reading and getting the green read on this amazing Pete. Real happy for you, dude, And since you call me uncle Fred, I'll say I'm real proud of you too, and I love having you back on and catching up together. This is a great product and I highly recommend it, so thanks so much for coming back and updating Us, of course, and I'm sure we're going to have something in another couple of years, and I'll be blessed enough to come back on your show and talk about it again