Zero Dark Thirty / David Nicholson Reserve Bourbon

0:00 So, here's the deal everybody. We just absolutely love producing as much content as possible for film and whiskey Nation. But if our regular episodes aren't enough for you, then you can head on over to patreon.com film whiskey sign up for one of our memberships and you will get a slew of extra content for your listening. Pleasure, check us out on patreon.com film. Whiskey in 2012, director, Kathryn Bigelow and starred. Jessica Chastain gave The world. A gritty Manhunt biopic that culminates in the death of the world's most hunted man in 2023 we try a sourced bourbon that fittingly comes from an undisclosed location. Oh the film is Zero.

0:44 Dark Thirty. The whiskey is David Nicholson reserve and more review them both. This is the film and whiskey podcast. Welcome to the film and whiskey podcast, where each week, we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey. I'm Bob book, I'm Reggie and this week we are looking at 2012's Zero Dark. Thirty one of objectively.

1:26 The coolest sounding movie names of the last 25 years Yes, Brad. Oh dude. There is something about the title that you're just like, I feel like I'm on SEAL Team Six time in. Yeah, I'm just, I have I'm bought into the movie before anything else. Yeah dude. Yeah, directors can't underestimate a good title. No. So this is our second film. Speaking of directors, from director Kathryn Bigelow. Last week, we looked at 2009's The Hurt Locker or I guess 2008's, The Hurt Locker, I don't know. There's some, there's some controversy who's to say, right? Go I can listen to that if you want us to suss out what year that was released in. But continuing on the controversy train, Brad, we're looking at Zero Dark Thirty a movie that is not without controversy of its own. I was going to say, I think it is universally beloved by military folks.

2:17 The common public, the political figures in our world, like nobody had an issue with this movie. No, not at all. I mean, it's basically, like, you know, this movie, and It's a Wonderful Life, are the ones that bring up the Fondest Memories for everyone. Yeah, that's it, man. All right, Brad, I have not sat down and counted but this has to be like, I don't know. The fourth fifth movie we've done from the year 2012 at this point. 2012 is one of the most slept on great movie years ever. And if you wouldn't mind, while I'm vamping Brad, do me a favor, just Google real quick. Best Picture nominees from the 2013 Oscars, come on it because it is just a really, really great list of movies. All right so 2013 Oscars.

3:02 We have our go a more Beasts of the Southern Wild Django Unchained. Les Miserables Life of Pi, Lincoln Silver, Linings Playbook and Zero, Dark Thirty. So this is at least our 4th 2012 movie. I think we also did the eighth Harry Potter movie, which came out in 2012. There's probably another one floating around out there somewhere that I can't think of off the top of my head. But is a more, the French movie that I did. That's the one that you do. Not like yeah, yeah, significant movie year, you know? Yeah, yeah. I would say. So I've actually seen every single movie on here except for Lincoln and Beasts of the Southern Wild.

3:45 Oh man. Okay, that's what you had a white wing credit and I would have expected that you would have seen Lincoln by. Now as I say, I've seen a more and I had not linking, not the Steven Spielberg movie of the bunch, I love it. I mean, if I'm being honest with you, Bob I think a more was the first movie on this list that I saw chronologically in my life. Wow, the tell me that I'm not a cinephile. Bob True film, bro. Brad gee. Bob you never mentioned. This is our 200th movie. Brad, I totally forgot until just now. And here's the crazy thing is, I've had this marked on my calendar and on are like Google sheet for months. This is is written it like on your hand. This is our 200th regular episode of film and whiskey. I am, dude, I'm just like I'm so grateful for this. I can't believe.

4:40 I'm 200 movies. Yeah, I am blown away myself. Like, you know, like I grew up watching movies and going to the theaters was something of a past time with my family. We probably did it once a month or so. And so to be able to sit down and take seriously the art of watching Homes and just have a blast with my best friend doing it for two hundred episodes. Now like that's just really cool and I'm really thankful for all of our listeners that that continue to tune in to hear us ramble on about movies like from Gone With the Wind to Zero Dark Thirty honestly. Like you know I know this is gonna sound super selfish but at the end of the day the drive of this podcast is like I get to introduce one of my best friends in the world to something.

5:29 I love more than almost anything and that is like these movies and the facts that I have, like, I just feel like I've tricked you into doing that. Like, I can't believe this is worked for two hundred straight weeks Brad. But, yeah, the crate, like you have gone from not having seen hardly any Classic Movies to probably more than 99% of the population at this point. And, and we've gone all the way back to movies in the 30s. We're going to look at silent movies here in a couple weeks. Like, yeah, it's really cool to be able to continue, to introduce you to these things. And to see like just how far we've been able to come in, what we can talk about and the references that I can make that you now understand? Yeah, I'm rocketing up the percentile chart of movies watched among Americans and I'm I'm proud of myself. Bob, I'm kind of awesome.

6:20 But you are a kind of awesome man. All right man let's get into talking about Zero Dark Thirty a little bit and in order to do that, we have to throw over to our first segment of the day. Which we call Brad explains that's gonna give us the movie plot with only 60 seconds ticking on the clock. So let's go ahead and do you take with this little segment that we call? Brad explains rad explains is the part of the podcast, where Brad breaks down the plot of the film that he has just seen often for the first time. Brad, was this your first time with Zero Dark Thirty? Sure was. Wow. Okay. Yeah, very first time I'd never seen it. It's one of those movies that I was always Rigged by, you know, partially because, you know, the hunt of Osama bin Laden, I wouldn't say it was like a formative part of our life, but we were 10. When the Twin Towers fell and therefore, we were, you know, around 20 ish when he got caught. Yeah.

7:18 And so spoiler alert, he didn't get caught. Well, I mean, they caught him with a bullet. Yeah. Very. Very, very different. Those and what happened with Saddam Hussein, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, every kind of catch, but yes, to your point, I understand what you're saying. I'm just surprised that this is your first time seeing it because of the three Downs in the Kathryn. Bigelow, bunch here. I would have thought this would be the one that had come across your radar a little quicker. Yeah, no. I like I said, it's been on my radar for a while but just never got around to it. And I will say like, after watching it I sat down and watched Obama's 10 minute speech on on. Catching him read a few articles about, you know, some of the what was going on in the cabin, in the president's cabinet is they're making decisions and it definitely struck me about what a huge moment.

8:14 It was in our society when he was killed. Yeah for sure. All right. Brad. Well now you have to break down the plot of the movie. The way that this works is that we put 60 seconds on the clock for Brad to explain the whole plot of the film. If he doesn't make it through, we just cut him off and These are left just on a cliffhanger, if you've not seen Zero Dark Thirty. Something tells me you already know how it ends. So I'll give mild spoiler warnings but, like, the spoilers are public knowledge. So, folks, if, you know, go watch the movie. But this is probably the first time in a few weeks Brad, that, I would say you can get the movie spoiled for you, and listen to us, talk about it before you watch the movie, and I think you could still enjoy it. Yeah. 100%, the, the movie obviously does not key. It's not an omelet.

8:59 M Night, Shyamalan movie, we'll just say that. All right. Brad, you have one minute on the clock and go Zero. Dark Thirty is a movie about a CIA analyst played by Jessica Chastain named Maya and her hunt for Ohama host Hama bin Laden. And her hunt for Osama Bin, Laden, it, follows her from her early days, in the CIA. As she's squeamish about torture all the way through to the very end as she's being attacked in in her Pakistani Embassy and her willingness to go to Every length possible to find and kill Osama Bin Laden. I I don't know what else to say Bob. No not really.

9:48 I mean that's that's the plot thickens. Yeah, it's about Her. And she has a drive to find and kill him. Have it, have somebody else finding kill him. She'll find him or in Brad's terms. Catch him, catch him. Have you ever seen the bad man? Like CollegeHumor video? Yeah. There's the one where he's talking about how he doesn't kill anybody. Yes, they just go to sleep. That's what they did with it with us Ava. That's on the historical. At this point? Yeah, all right man. I think may be the place to start. Is comparing this directly to the film.

10:29 That we just came out of, which is The Hurt Locker. And I think it's very clear a. I mean, just looking at this movie, the scope of this movie is just enormous compared to The Hurt Locker. Yeah. And it's a decade-long my film, and just, you know, the cast is incredibly stacked. You can see the budget on the screen. I always love it when like a filmmakers next movie gets a much bigger. Budget is almost like when I watched the first Godfather, ER, and then the Godfather Part 2 and like know, this clearly had at least twice the budget and, you know, in the case of The Hurt Locker, it had between four and five times the budget. And I think just just in looking at it you can tell ya that's that's what winning an Oscar will do for you.

11:11 Bob? Yeah. No. You can definitely see the you can see where the money goes like that. Like that's something we talked about every once in a while. On the podcast you can see the money in this. There's a lot more special effects a lot more. Just like big showy scenes and there's just a lot more movie to watch their step. Certainly, as it's a long movie, it's a really long movie, man. And that's one of the detractions, I would give this film, is it? It's a little bit too long. I have not watched this movie front to back since the first time I watched it, which I guess would have been in 2013 after the Oscars. But I gave it a 10 out of 10 at the time and I hope I say how life update I'm not giving us movie A 10/10 now Now that's Bob, I was really worried that we're going to come into this and I was going to give it like an 8 or something and you'd be like what are you doing? No.

12:08 I mean like I think I'm kind of in that range now not to spoil my final scores but it will definitely be taking a step back. It's not a perfect movie, it like, it has some pacing issues for me. But I think even as I get into talking about pacing issues, the whole reason I brought up the comparison to The Hurt Locker is that in addition to being like, Just massive in terms of scope and scale and ambition. It's also a completely different kind of movie. Like the fact that both of these movies are set in the Middle East is about the only thing they have in common from like a narrative storytelling standpoint. I would put this movie in a completely different genre from The Hurt Locker.

12:48 I don't want to like totally nitpick. What would we consider, Pakistan? The Middle East. Now that's true, are they ever in the other in Afghanistan? It's, um, Point in the movie, right? Because they go to the, the CIA Black Ops base on in Afghanistan. Yeah. Anyway, there's Middle East element. Just okay. I like geography, man. Fair Point what I'm trying to say is, you know, I watch The Hurt Locker and like, obviously yes, it's a war movie in this one's not a war movie but it tells a very conventional narrative story. There is like a narrative Arc. There's tension builds. There's a Solution. This movie is much more episodic. And as I tried to, like, categorize what even is the genre of this movie?

13:34 The only kinds of films that I can really compare it to our like journalists movies, you know, like a procedural about like All the President's Men or Spotlight has a lot in common with the way this movie unfolds. It's just that instead of trying to break a story, they're trying to catch the world's most infamous criminal, but it has that same sort of, almost like police procedural element to it. Yeah, 100%. And and yet it also has a bit of like a Jason Bourne movie, mmm? Like, for me the vibe of the lighting in the movie reminded me of the Bourne movies. And and the way that they have, like a gritty realism vibe to the foreign countries that they Place their characters in footnote 4.

14:21 In, if you are from the US, obviously just felt very similar to me. Like I Found myself often throughout the movie thinking that like, this is a much more serious. Jason Bourne asked movie. Yeah. That and that like, that's what really stuck with me in a good way, like I think that the look and the feel of this movie, all right? Like AI think it's the right tone that they should have struck and be like they kept it consistent throughout the entire film and that was really well done. I'm really glad you agree with me on this because I was worried that we were going to end up getting in. In a debate about it. Like when I looked at the genre of the movie online, it's categorized as a political thriller. And I feel like that's one of those kinds of genres that there's a huge umbrella for what you can call a political thriller and that's everything from like, you know, Manchurian Candidate.

15:12 Exactly. Like I'm being chased by, there's a conspiracy against me. And it's an action-thriller all the way down to like this kind of, you know, backroom political Intrigue kind of thing, which I met Aaron, Sorkin West Wing week. Operates on a much different kind of Rhythm. And so, like I guess the thing, you know, just to kick things off here. My observation is, this is a very different movie Than The Hurt Locker. Yeah. And it's, it's fascinating. How Bigelow is working in the same era of like history, like, she's making historical fiction, ish, mmm, movies. And like, I don't know, I'm very curious. Why?

15:57 Why she is a director was drawn to this era? I mean, obviously she's making these movies as the things are happening like Zero Dark Thirty originally was supposed to be a movie about the failed Manhunt. Yeah. Sama Bin Laden. And then they found him and killed him. There are sorry. They found in caught him caught it and they completely rewrote the script to fit the catching of Osama bin Laden. Do you think this is a good time to get into like the whole Mercy or should we save that for a little bit later? Yeah, let's just get it out of the way. Okay, so they waterboard people that here's the, I will say, one of the best lines I've ever heard in a movie is when the the CIA agent that trains, Jessica Chastain and the field on how to torture, people is leaving and he's like telling her to be careful. He's like, you know, times are changing. They're not letting us do what we need to do and then he goes, you Don't want to be the last one found holding the dog collar, the dog collar.

17:03 And I'm like, oh, I don't like that. Yeah, but it's a great like crazy thing is, like, that's not a euphemism, that's not a metaphor. That is snow. He's being literal. Describing what they did to prisoners, 100%. So I will say, go ahead in the movie. I have not read about what they actually did. I will just comment on what they portrayed in the movie. What they portrayed in the movie is effed up, bro. Yeah, it's horrific. Well, and I was going to say the funny thing is this movie is so controversial that there are controversies off of the controversies and yep, when I said like let's talk about the controversy. I wasn't even thinking about the torture element of it which in itself was very controversial. And a lot of people movie critics that did not like this movie really went in on it.

17:49 And basically said, essentially the Ark of the Story is if not for the torture of these prisoners. We would not have caught Osama Bin Laden, right? Yeah, we being Americans, right? We are Americans. I, you know, sorry, I'm using the, the, the formal we here. Yeah. I think you mean merkins. Yes. Exactly. But it's, and so, the point they're essentially making is whether Kathryn Bigelow, and the screenwriter Mark boal? Understand it or not, they're essentially condoning what's being portrayed on screen and So it became this big back and forth with markable saying, like you're misreading, the film, if that's what you think. But, I mean, those elements are there and the controversy Brad that I was referring to though is the fact that this movie essentially ends up getting accused of stealing CIA secrets that, like, how could they have known how this operation went down less than a year after it happened. Unless somebody was feeding them information about it. And so, you know, Mark boal has come out and said like He got his information from and, and then, the funny thing is, like, after the movie comes out, it's getting investigated, they opened a senate investigation against this movie, to figure out what you like, how they got their information. And at the same time, they're investigating it for stealing CIA Secrets.

19:10 There's a whole section of Congress, especially people like John McCain Dianne Feinstein who are accusing the movie of being grossly inaccurate. So it's like, okay, well, if they stole Secrets then they clearly. I didn't use them because you're saying none of this happened. So like it was caught in between all of these kind of hot-button controversies. It came out in an election year, people accused it of trying to be released so that it would influence the, you know, people in favor of voting for Obama even though it hardly mentions Obama, it really just did become a political lightning rod for a few months there. And yeah, that's interesting Bob because technically this movie was supposed to come out in 2012.

19:52 It ended up coming out and really early 2013 because they didn't want to affect the election. I guess I didn't. And I said, giving this movie a lot of credit to assume that like so many people are going to go see this movie and attribute. All of this to Barack Obama that it will sway an American election. Yeah well and and if we're being honest like in the end at the end of the day, Barack Obama was the president who gave the order to the? Yeah. Hundred percent like giving credit where credit's due and like that's fine. Like he was the president. It's whoever is the quarterback of the team gets the W or the L.

20:33 Yep. Like so if Obama gets the W-4 that then he gets the W-4 that that's, I don't know. That just seems like a silly talking point but I know we're talking about American politics where nothing is silly and everything is important. So you know, you know, Bob we should probably just talk about politics this entire episode. I was actually hoping Thing, that we could just pivot the show to, like, film and politics. Oh, no, this exact whiskey. Yeah, it's Gotta Be. Yeah, there we go. In the logo will get rid of the film reel, and just put an American flag, or like the judicial scales. Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah, Statue of Liberty. Yes? Yes, yes, yes. All right, man, let's talk about the movie itself and I want to start with Jessica Chastain because it's her movie. Jessica Chastain is such an interesting case study in stardom because she was, you know, a working actress, she had been in a few movies.

21:28 Like, in 2010, she comes out with this movie called The Debt where she plays a supporting role and so, like she's working her way up through, you know, the the food chain in Hollywood and she makes a love the. I love the phrase working actress though. As if like Meryl, Streep isn't working, she's just like floating on clouds around the set. Meryl. Streep is gigging. At this point, she doesn't need steady work. Come on. That's true. So chasteen films like six or seven movies that all like some of them get shelved for a few months, some of them get rushed into post-production. And in the year 2011 she has one two, three, four, five, six.

22:09 Movies. Come out and like at least four of them are either like really beloved by critics or become really big hits. So she makes a movie with Ray finds that he directs. It's an adaptation. And of the Shakespeare play coriolanus, she's in the movie, take shelter with Michael Shannon, which is, I mean, a phenomenal movie. I love that film. She makes the Tree of Life where she is like co-starring opposite Brad Pitt in a Terrence Malick movie like and Sean Penn and then don't forget him and then the one that really kind of puts her on the map, is the movie. The Help The Help gets nominated for a bunch of oscars. I believe she gets nominated for best supporting actress for the help. And so, from relative obscurity, T to the end of that year.

22:51 She's like one of the biggest names in Hollywood and then what does she have coming out the following year? Oh just Zero Dark. Thirty like it. Yeah. It's so crazy to think how quickly this kind of thing can happen. Yeah. And Chilean like interest Interstellar. Just a year or two later. Yeah, exactly. Like yeah, she had a really nice run there for a while and you know she finally has won her Oscar just a little over a year ago for the movie The Eyes of Tammy Faye. It's just crazy because I feel like she's been a fixture in Hollywood for so long. But there was a time when from one year to the next nobody knew her and then she was, you know, the hottest thing in town. Yeah stardom thrust upon her quickly. So what's gonna happen to us baby that we're going to hit the big time Bob. And what?

23:35 I don't know what is the big time even look like for a podcast not Jessica Chastain's career, it's like that. Okay, we're not going to be making millions of dollars. If we couldn't hit the level of Fame, she had before 2011, Evan will be like gods in the podcasting world. Yeah, yeah. We probably would need an well, here's here's the becoming gods of the podcasting world. So, Chastain in this movie, pretty incredible, Brad. Yeah, she's like you said, she is the driving force of this film. Like her emotional engine keeps this thing moving and boy does this movie need it because it is long like, I II And I emphasize this enough, Bob, I checked, I try my hardest to not check where I'm at in a movie like you're not meant to know it when you're sitting in the theater, there's nothing you can't just like, you know, check to see how much time you have left. You can't put on subtitles.

24:37 I've returned to a place where I try to watch movies as much. Like I'm in the theater as possible. This one I checked at one point I was like oh dear God, I have an hour and 20 minutes left. I'm not even halfway. I checked one more time and I was like, oh man, there's 53 minutes left. This is really rough man. I'm not gonna lie to you man will get back to chest and a second. I did the same thing like multiple times throughout this movie because again, this is kind of I don't see the downfall but it is an inherent feature of this kind of episodic procedural movie that because there is not a traditional narrative Arc even though there's kind of the built-in, like the hunt and then the catch at the end of the movie. So there is like a kind of Arc, but it's so episodic and so stop start.

25:26 And then, you know, one step forward, two steps back. Because of the nature of this case that you really can't tell how far you are into the movie at any point, and it sounds very endless and repetitive. And again that's that's the nature of what it was like to do this. However, you know, I got like a half hour into the movie and I couldn't remember if all of the torture stuff was just like an extended. Did prologue to what was going to happen and it's like, no, it's not really a prologue. It's just like one chapter of this film and then she goes off and does another thing. And then she gets shot at by some people and then she's with SEAL Team Six and I don't know, man, I'm with you and I hit the point where there's that assassination attempt on her, one of many, where she's getting shot at, you know, and she's still like drive backwards behind that gate and I press pause.

26:15 And it was like, at the hour and a half-ish mark. Yep. Oh, they're still All our left in this movie and I feel like I've been watching it for at least 2.5 hours. Yeah, it's pretty much the same as the ending of The Return of the King. Hmm. My like it's episodic. There's like seven different episodes to the ending and every single one is better than the last. So Becca, back to Jessica Chastain. Let's get back to Jessica for a second. I think what makes her work as a character is the way she slowly. Lee unravels throughout the movie. That at the very start you have a fresh-faced like, right out of school, recruit who, you know, shows a lot of promise.

27:04 And by the time you get like 45 to 60 minutes into the film, you hear her asking Prisoners, the same questions that her trainer was asking and using the same phrases and you're kind of like oh she's like She's like and now she's bought into the what they're doing and then from there you see the physical transformation happen and she gets you know, her hair gets more and more unkempt and she doesn't care. Quite as much about her makeup anymore and and you see her kind of slowly lose it throughout the film. And I think that's the thing that keeps the film. Moving is how her emotional energy becomes more ragged as the film goes further and further along well.

27:49 Yeah. And I think the great thing about it is that they kind of establish at the beginning of the film, that this is all she has. This is all she does. She has no life outside of this. We never find out her last name and that's because this is a fictional character. There's I mean, based on real CIA operatives but we only know her as Maya and anyone only knows her. As my I don't think they ever use a last name for her in this movie and it gets to a point where one of her colleagues asks her do you have any friends and she just doesn't answer and it's pretty obvious that she doesn't So, when you get to the end of the film and Brad, I love the ending of this film, and that last shot of the movie has stuck with me for, you know, 11 years now.

28:30 It's 45. Probably second shot. That is just a close-up on her face because they've killed Bin Laden and they put her on a plane and the guy says like hey must be pretty important. You're the only person here so you it's echoing her isolation and then he says where do you want to go? And she has no answer and up to play and start. It's too kind of just Meander down, you know, the taxiway, and she's crying and she's understanding, like, where do I go from here? Kathryn, Bigelow, in an interview was talking about how she loved this ending, because she wanted the audience to understand that this is not just where do I go from here? But, where do we go from here? Like, as Americans?

29:11 We were hoping that someday we could catch and or kill Osama Bin Laden and then it happened. And it's like, okay, what? Now there's this, they're All this emptiness there's still this loss that we feel from 9/11 and that void is not been filled and so she's a really great representation of that and I think Chastain just freaking knocks it out of the park in that scene man. Yeah she does. I mean honestly it reminds me a ton of the ending of The Social Network. Mmm, we're like, you're just sitting with the character and it's like, all right, we just accomplished all this stuff. We did all these great things. But who am I at the end of this was like, what's next? What did, what am I going to turn into?

29:53 And I think that that's like Probably one of my favorite, I don't know. I'm gonna call it a Trope, like, one of my favorite tropes from Hollywood is like, okay, we obviously made this movie about a specific event because that's what's interesting, but as with everybody's life, there's going to be really interesting parts of our lives. But those times are going to end. Like at a certain point the honeymoon, you know, if you get married your honeymoon ends and you go back to work and you learn how to live with you or now spouse and and like the the rest of time is trying to figure out. Okay what do we do next? And I think that's a really important question that we should be asking ourselves as human beings. That a lot of times I try to run away from, I don't want to think about like the boringness of life, it date. To day life.

30:45 But but movies like this kind of force you to reckon with that of like, okay, this important thing ended. Who am I? Where am I going? What am I doing? And what's next? You're absolutely right though, man. Like the sub genre of movie, that is, you know, ambiguous ending where the character is now morally lost and doesn't know where to go from here. Yeah, he is like, you know, because obviously it reminded me of the end of up in the air because it's set on a plane. But that, you know, when when the pilot finally comes out, Tells George Clooney, like you're in the Diamond Club, now, or whatever. Where do you want to go? And he just doesn't know what to say and then the movie ends with him looking at that board of departures at the airport and just being like, you know, one of the lights that you see above you tonight will be my wing tip and you just don't know where he's going to go from here.

31:32 Yeah, and I do, I love movies like this man because it's always like, just such a gut punch at to end the film. And like I said, man, Chastain gets nominated for best actress for this movie and she She absolutely deserves it. It's a great performance. Yeah. Do you know who won that year for actress? Who won that year for actors like that? Jennifer Lawrence. Oh yeah. For Silver. Linings Playbook. Yeah, which I have seen. I think I'd lean towards Chastain and oh, I agree 100%. Yeah or a manual Reva in a more obviously. Yes. And she also gets caught at the end of that movie. Shit. All right.

32:14 Brad. It's time for us to hit pause at this point because this is going to go off the rails. I'll very quickly if we don't stop here. Let's drink some whiskey, man. It's time we get into this David Nicholson Reserve, what do you say that caught with a pillow? 140. You got me. Good with that. Let's go drink some whiskey. Alright so today we are checking out David Nicholson Reserve, this is a 100 Proof bourbon whiskey, that comes to us from the Luxe. Go company also known as Lux row. Lux Co built a Distillery back in and 2017. 2018 2019, somewhere in there, called Lux row, they already twenty twenty Twenty-One twenty-two who it is.

33:05 Who's to say who's to say? They produce one of our favorite lines of whiskey, which is Rebel bourbon mirror Dear to my heart, my favorite brand of whiskey pound for pound on the market. And this is another of their sourced products. So they didn't start distilling their own stuff. Until just a couple years ago, they have been rumored to have just the best relationship with Heaven Hill. Most of their sourced stuff reportedly reputedly comes from Heaven Hill and this is among those. So David Nicholson is a brand that was apparently very Regional and it has like a kind of a BS marketing story behind it of like, oh this, this Man made his own whiskey and passed his recipe down for generations. And so they took this brand that was I think in the st. Louis region.

33:51 They expanded it to National Distribution and they're sourcing likely Heaven Hill, whiskey to do it. There's two Whiskey's bottled under the David Nicholson. Label one is called, I believe 1843, that is a weeded Bourbon. And then, there is the David Nicholson Reserve, which is what we're drinking today. This is a high ribe Urban Brad. But again, we have no idea where it comes from wink, wink. We have no idea what the mash bill is for real, for real. So, that's all I have to say about it. Brad I like that. You're caveats are wink, wink. And for real for real, keeping it classy here at the filming, whiskey podcast. This might be a first for the season Brad, you. And I are both trying this live, usually you drink yours before we hit record.

34:37 I like to just kind of do mine in the moment and just kind of feeling feel nice and loose about it, but we're both doing this right now in the moment. I'm nosing this and I really love the nose on this man. Oh yeah, I think it's a really Solid nose for me, it's a little bit nutty. There's some cherry that comes through a little bit of like an allspice and then like, the the longer I've sat with it, the more you get some of those caramel and vanilla notes coming out? I think it's, I think it's pretty solid not complex enough for me to give it a high score, but I'll give it a 7 out of 10. This is a complete aside, but right now, I'm tasting out of a, like a mini Glencairn a we Glencairn as they're called a weekend.

35:19 It's what we got when we went to the Kentucky Bourbon Festival last year, Brad, and my aside is to ask you this. Have you noticed a difference in The Taste when you drink out of a regular sized Glencairn versus the we Glencairn? I'm going to be really snobby for a second Bob. I don't drink whiskey out of anything other than a Glencairn. Well, this is the Glencairn. It's just mini-sized man. Yeah, I that's not a Glencairn Bob, it's like all those pictures in like, when Andre the Giant would have like a beer can in his hand. That's what I feel like right now with Yes, 100%. So anyway, I say all that because the notes that I'm getting on, the nose of this are very different than the ones you're getting, and I'm getting a lot more of the brighter fruity notes.

36:01 There's a ton of green apple on this for me and actually got a really specific candy memory and it's those Sweet Tarts. Like the chewy Sweet Tarts that have like the inside of them as white. Those are the best. There is like a very specific almost sour powdery fruitiness to this that I really really dig. The only thing is for being a reportedly High Rye bourbon. I get almost no Rye on this nose. Yeah, I don't get it either. Bob, I do have a question for you. Mmm. Do you own a Glencairn? Oh, I own like 15 Glen Karen's then why aren't you drinking out of one of those? Because dude is just next to my computer.

36:45 I'm just curious. I like if you had like two in there, both in the washer. But all right, let me go get a Glencairn while you while you Vamp and give us more. Oh man. So yeah, so the palette here is really interesting for me it Dives very heavily into the world of cherry and I'm honestly not getting very much Riot. All like Bob I know that you said that this is a high ride bourbon but for me It's almost like a cherry cordial like a chocolate cherry cordial. There's a little bit of vanilla that pops in. It's nice and creamy.

37:28 I like this flavor a lot. I'm a little annoyed that it's a high Ryan. I'm not getting really any Rye because I like Rye a lot. I think. I'll give it a seven and a half on the taste. It's solid. I like what's going on here, but nothing that's like really standing out for me. This is by far our most chaotic Whiskey Review of all time. I really did get up and go get a Glencairn. And so I came back when you were halfway through talking and I heard chocolate cherry cordial, that was the first thing I heard now, I'm still nosing this and I get that a lot in a Glencairn. I really it's like milk chocolate. With that kind of sickly syrupy. Sweet. Cherry thing inside of it. I will say Brad. Neither of us actually gave this a score on the nose yet so I did. I give it a 7.

38:11 You give it a seven. Alright, I'm going to give it a seven and a half on the nose. I'm going to take a sip so that I I'm finally give it a taste score but to prevent our listeners from being bored, listening to me, smack my lips, go ahead and give it your finish score. And then I'll come in and give Casey and finish. For me, on the finish. It kind of So ours is not the right word so ours is a very specific feeling that you know it when you taste it I feel like when whiskeys are overly oked they kind of sour at the end. That's not what's happening here. I guess it Bob that when you described it as that kind of sickly Sweet Cherry interior.

38:54 I feel like that is just lingering on your palette and I'm not a huge fan. I think I'll give it a six out of ten on the finish. So on the taste, everything you got. I'm getting like, I get the, the milk chocolate. I get the like, the whole cherry cordial thing is really prominent here. There's a little bit of vanilla, but it's almost like an artificial vanilla extract for me. A lot of that fruitiness went away and it is kind of in that more milk chocolate range. When you go to swallow and on the Finish it's got a ton of Oak and Char on it like a lot and rad I don't know if it's just that like you know I Kind of took a break from drinking whiskey in the month between Seasons, but I feel like, I don't know, like five or six of the nine whiskies we've had at this point have had that really, really strong Oak Char character to them and I will say that among them, this one doesn't lean into just like, hey, cigarette, Ash on your tongue. This one like it has that, but then, it kind of undercuts it with that sickly syrupy, Sweet Cherry so that, it almost in the balance ends up tasting kind of like the The lingering aftertaste of like, Robitussin.

40:04 Hmm, like a little bit sweeter though. I don't hate it. And I really thought that I would I'm gonna give it a seven and a half on the taste. I'm going to give it a seven on the Finish. Yeah, honestly, this weirdly reminds me of the Nomad out land which is not as good. Like the like The Nomad Outland had a weirdly sweet cherry flavor to it and it was incredible. This one feels Similar but just doesn't quite pull it off as well. I think for balance, I'll give it a six and a half, like there are some good flavors going on here. I just don't know if they're all mixing super well, especially as I take a step back and just consider the flavors that are left on my palate. It's decent, but not great.

40:52 I'm also going to give it a six and a half on balance and I know that it sounds weird because I gave each component a higher score than this but I think when you take the sum of the The parts and ends up being less than each of them, you know what I mean? Like it's just an okay, whiskey, it's pretty good. On second sip, that finish gets a little bit more bitter and a little bit less palatable. I'm not going to go back and amend my finish score but in terms of overall balance, I think the whole experience, you know, taken as a cohesive whole is just a 6 and a half for me. Yeah, it's a little bit disappointing. When you come to Value, this bottle will can be sold in the state of Ohio for $40. H. Hm. and I, Bob, this isn't a 40 dollar whisk.

41:36 No, it's not. I mean, here's the thing. Like if we knew a little bit more about it maybe we could justify the price a bit like. How old is this whiskey? We don't know. I mean, it's got to be at least 4 years old because I don't see an age statement on this bottle. But, you know, if it was like a six to eight year bourbon, I'd be like okay $40 makes more sense, it's a hundred proof so like I get that but it's not bottled in bond, it's just a hundred proof. So that tells me that they're blending a whole bunch of stuff together to Come out with this and at the you know, at that price point I just you can get a lot better stuff for $40. I think when it first came out it was retailing at 35 and that made it kind of like a oh this is something different from Lux row that an approachable price in mind, paying a little bit more to get something kind of off the beaten path but at 40 it's just a little bit.

42:24 It has better competition. I'm going to give this a five and a half on value. Yeah I give it a four and a half on value. Wow. Bob my toe. What is coming out to a 31.5 out of 50? Brad, I'm going to 34 out of 50 so we're only coming out to a 65.5 out of 100 or a 32 point 75 out of 50. I think that's a pretty like a pretty accurate score honestly. Yeah, it's like right at the point where it's not bad, it's not a bad whiskey. I just don't think I'm going to recommend it because it doesn't really do anything to stand out. Whether it's on the nose, As the taste of finish, there's no real component of this that I would recommend to somebody even if it's not a bad whiskey.

43:12 Yeah, I would put it in the category of like a cc + whiskey that you don't need to spend $40 on and you don't need to spend six bucks on it for a poor of the bar either. Yeah, I mean it's like yeah, it's a two and a half Star movie, you know, it's like yeah you don't, you don't really regret spending your money on it and it was pleasant enough. But you know that by the time you Get home. You're going to forget about it, just one of those. Yeah, good drink rubble. Go drink Rebel every day, all day every day. Yeah man, I won't say that. I'm disappointed. Like it, like, it was fine but I yeah, I'm with you. I'm not going to recommend it. All right, Brad, let's get back into talking about Zero. Dark. Thirty, what do you say?

43:54 Let's get to it. All right, everybody that was David Nicholson reserve a whiskey that you can reserve spending your money on The Bob you know what it's time for. Right now it's time for Bob's checkbooks favorite segment. Our patreon plug plug in the patreon plug in the patreon, guys. If you like what we're doing here at the film and whiskey podcast and you want to spend some of your Hard earned money. Our way. We absolutely love you guys. We love producing this content but it isn't free as everybody knows. We try to bring the best possible material to you guys.

44:37 And so we have a patreon. If you want to check it out, it's patreon.com film whiskey. There are three different tiers, three five and seven dollars a month at each tier. You get some pretty cool stuff. There's bonus content. There's a channel on our Discord that is solely dedicated to our page. Hands, where we spend time every day talking to you guys. So if you want to check it out, go to patreon.com/scishow. Um, whiskey and consider, you know, thrown a few bucks. Our way. We really do try to give them as much content as we possibly can to like, yeah, you know, we're making episode specifically for them. Brad, I've got a thing lined up with a PR Company. Right now that's sending me digital codes for movies to give away and you know, a couple months ago, we did do a giveaway for like the broader public but there's also going to be a couple months where I'm like, hey, I have five copies of Of the new Dungeons and Dragons movie. I'm gonna give him to patrons.

45:28 You know what I mean? Like, it's wants it exactly. So if you'd like some of these perks, consider joining us at patreon.com film whiskey. All right, Bob, that was your favorite segments. Now it's time for Canada's favorite segments to fax in a falsehood is gonna try to stop you ball, all right. And what is wrong? Two facts and a falsehood to facts in a Third is the part of the podcast where Brad presents three items to me as fact, one of which he has completely made up and it's my job to figure out which one is the LIE Brad, there is, I feel like we both had to do at least some amount of research on this movie just to understand the context into which it was released.

46:14 Like we both seem pretty familiar with the controversies surrounding it. So I'm really interested to see what you're going to pull out for your two facts in a falsehood. Well just just you wait. Bob they're pretty incredible facts. Number one, the man who killed Bin Laden, Robert O'Neill wrote in his autobiography, the operator that the real-life CIA operative that Jessica Chastain Petraeus was the bravest woman. He has ever met fact. Number two, Jessica Chastain's character was based on a real-life CIA analyst who was single-minded in her Devotion to finding Bin Laden. But was actually killed in a raid on the US Embassy in Pakistan before, the job was finished.

46:56 Fact, number 3, Jessica Chastain's agents originally declined, the role of Maya for her producer. Megan Ellison who had worked with Chastain on Lawless, gave Kathryn Bigelow Chastain's phone number, so that she could personally offer the roll. Oh, interesting. Hmm, I do remember reading that somebody had been identified as the source, or at least one of the sources for Maya in this movie. I don't remember reading that she had been killed, so to immediately jumps out to me as a potential falsehood. Number three, sounds pretty plausible number once, definitely sounds plausible.

47:37 Although I don't know the name of the guy who actually killed Bin Laden so maybe You made that up who's to say? I think I'm going to just go with my gut on this one Brad and say that to is the falsehood just because I don't remember reading that that person had died Bob you are 100% correct. All right yeah I'm telling you what man the victories this season have been hard fought and few and far between. So I will take one when I can get one. Yeah, I say this is what our third season of doing two facts in a falsehood, I think, so, Yes, I'm getting. I'm a seasoned veteran at this point Bob. I'm not squeamish anymore about the torture that you put me through, there it is. Yeah, I watched a few videos of Robert O'Neill. The the gentleman who killed there are sorry who caught Osama Bin Laden, and he is a very interesting human being and he like, I don't know.

48:36 There's part of me that, you know, we talked about the controversy earlier about, you know, how our, how were they able to find out the things they found out about what happened? This students just out there like, yeah, after I, after I caught Osama, I like, picked up his two-year-old son and gave him to his mom. And I'm like, oh, you're like just a lot to talk about anything at this point, you know, it's funny. You say that because and I wasn't able to go far enough down the rabbit hole in researching this out, but I feel like the existence of this movie, kind of accelerated, how quickly? They Declassified this story because like I remember every single person in Seal Team Six wrote a book at some point.

49:19 Like it just it seemed like for a year. It was like they Declassified it. And then everybody wrote a book about SEAL Team Six and what they did. Yeah. And I can't help but think that that's pretty much solely because this movie came out and they needed to either corroborate, it or refute. It, it's just interesting to me that like a movie like this kind of drove policy in that way not possible. Policy. Now, you know what I mean? Like the the the classification of highly sensitive materials and whether or not the public would get to know any of it. Yeah. Well I mean, as we know, with with mr. Trump and mr. Biden president could just declassify whatever he wants, just anything and everything will even classified. Absolutely Osama.

50:01 Bin Laden Declassified. All right, Brad. I think we should talk a little bit about the other actors in this movie. And it's going to be pretty quick because everybody kind of plays. They're Little role in, what is essentially, my has bigger story, but it's worth noting that a lot of these actors were either like semi-famous or just getting famous. Like, you know, Chris Pratt. I remember, like, I vividly remember seeing the trailer for this movie in front of every important movie in 2012. And there's a moment where they clip out the him saying like you really think it's him Osama bin ladin and it's the way he says Bin Laden. It is like edged into my Braille Bilal Be on my deathbed.

50:41 Yeah, forgetting the names of everyone in my family and I'll be thinking about Chris Pratt saying that stupid line. But no, man, ever seen the movie and like, I didn't really know who he was at that point because I didn't watch Parks and Rec. When it first came out, I caught up with Parks and Rec later, right? Before it ended. And so I didn't know, Chris Pratt, Joel Edgerton, I had only seen in a couple movies to that point, I think Warrior had just come out a year before that maybe. So I kind of knew Joel, Edgerton, Mark Strong, the very famous British actor. You know, I kind of recognized him as like, oh, is that all British guy? But honestly, it was only people like Kyle Chandler and James Gandolfini that I even recognized in this movie. And now I say go back and watch it and I'm like, oh, I recognize probably 13 people in this movie, I go back and I recognize Chris Pratt and Jessica Chastain and Kyle Chandler because I watch Friday Night Lights, that's okay.

51:36 Hello and Harold Perrineau who was in long-lost. Yeah. well, okay, so the person I wanted to call out was James Gandolfini, because I thought that it was is we've never talked about him on this show and it really sucks because he's like, one of our great actors and Gone Too Soon, it was so good to see him pop up in a movie and I just, I love watching that guy act, but are you saying that you did not recognize James Gandolfini Bob, I'm looking at the cast on IMDb right now, he doesn't even pop up on the cast, like the main cast list, if you have to click see all too, CJ. I mean he is a very small role but like you what I'm asking you is like when you saw him on screen, did you know who he is?

52:18 Now I know what his name is. I couldn't pick him out of a lineup. I don't know what he's been in. I'm not even going to say what? Like Brad. I'm so excited so bad at you, right? Can you click on him? Click on his IMDb and then you go find it and then you'll go. I'm like, oh I'm like scrolling through the IMDb actor page. There's 112 results and I can't find every time I think that like do plans learned things by being on this podcast, with me, you come back with like, oh, I don't know who Tony Soprano is. I don't know what the television show. The seminal piece of entertainment. That is The Sopranos is like, I mean, I've heard of The Sopranos.

53:06 Oh my God, blow my mind, man. Why would I watch The Sopranos? They know what? No, don't push me there today. Brad, we're not good. I just wanted to say I like to see him James Gandolfini. I'm gonna, is he Sopranos as good as Breaking Bad. It is, it is widely regarded, like, along with breaking bad as possibly the greatest television show ever made. I mean, if it's right there with Breaking Bad, I'm sure to watch it anyway. Brad who are some other people in this movie that you would like to call out for their performances. However, All they might be. Um, I really liked. The British guy that you talked about, he doesn't he play kind of like the, the chief who she keeps writing on his window.

53:54 Mark Strong. Thank you, Mark Strong. I liked him in this. I think that he does a great job of illustrating the like the plight of middle management. We're like he's he is 100% on my aside and drying harness. He's like yeah, he's like an Area 51 at one point and then fly. Going back to Pakistan and she's just playing really writing on his window. Yeah. And like she but he's like not allowed to show her that he's doing everything he can to get this investigated. Like he might not fully believe that Bin Laden's there but he knows something's up and so I just I loved his performance because he just plays that middle manager role. So incredibly well where he's keeping her at Bay and yet also fighting his butt off to try and get the stuff she's figured out investigating so I really liked him a lot. Lat, I didn't like Chris Pratt like he's just too fluffy for me to believe that he's on Seal Team 6. I don't know if that's like body shaming or something but I'm just like looking at him.

55:02 I'm like well yeah I don't think he would, you know, like Star-Lord level Chris Pratt could be unsealed Team 6, but like Parks and Rec Chris and Pratt could not be unsealed Team Six. I'm not even gonna go there with that way, but I had Jason Clarke cuz I didn't like him. Jason Clarke is an interesting actor because like he's in this movie. See, he's in one of the, the new Planet of the Apes movies. He does a few indie films that are like really well regarded. And then he's like poised to get really big and then he just kind of doesn't and I've always really liked him as an actor. I think he makes super interesting choices and in this movie He plays a very I don't even want to know if I want to call him a complicated character because he's kind of uncomplicated and very Steely.

55:51 But it's interesting to go back now because when I first watched this I was like that guy is gonna be a movie. Star and it just like, never really happened for him. Hmm. Yeah, I think he's interesting in this. I think his most interesting moment is like completely overlooked and it's when he disagrees with Maya in like the big bang with with Tony Soprano and and he says 60% and like Maya kind of looks at him and then they never talk about it again and I'm like that, like That to me is a moment of character development and it's just completely glossed over because they have to get finished with their two half-hour.

56:36 Yeah, buddy. That's a great point. I yeah, I think that is kind of the stuff of why I think the pacing is off in this film is you don't get enough character interaction between her and people they've established as important like even even coach. What's his face from Friday Night Lights? Like they just kind of get rid of him halfway through the movie and And he gets shipped off back to America and you don't really see him again. And I'm like, why? Like I want to see Jessica Chastain like bounce off of people more often. That's what she's most interesting. And yet, they keep taking people out of her way. And they finally put a, put a CIA Chief and tan like, in charge of her that just says, yeah, I learned that you should do whatever you want. So, go for it.

57:19 Okay. Brad, I love it when I can tell that you're starting to get either upset with the movie or just kind of digging your heels in on a point that you've made because it start doubling down on certain behaviors. And one of those behaviors is like you're not even trying to say people's names anymore. Like you just referred to Mark Strong as that British guy. You mentioned and you refer to Kyle Chandler as coach. What's his face? Well, I don't remember his name, which is even better because not only did you not call him by his real human name? But But the thing you actually associate him with which is Friday Night Lights, you don't even remember his name from that and you can't be bothered to look up. Either of those things you just say coach, what's his name? And you know that I know who you're talking about.

58:02 Oh Bob, I'm in the middle of a rain. I don't have time to be clicking through. I am DB ohm and remember what his name is in Friday Night Lights. All right, man before we get out of here, and before we paired, this movie up with, let's make it a double. I want to talk really briefly about Kathryn Bigelow's directing style. So we're two movies in with her. We're going to throw it all the way back to 1992 with Point Break next week. Which is a much more conventional, you know, kind of in the vein of The Hurt Locker it tells a much more conventional narrative story and it is much more Hollywood. I used in terms of its look and feel even in The Hurt Locker is and so I guess I'm wondering Brad after two movies. Do you feel like you have a grasp on her style on her themes like on her? Dual sense as a director yet or do you think you need another movie to try to make that determination? Yeah, I feel like it's hard to say that. I would have a grasp on it because of how specific her Furs to movies are like even though.

59:06 Yes they are different genres. Like 100% hurt locker and this one as you said to the the top of this episode are very different, genre movies. And yet they are both about the same thing. They're both about the results of 9/11 and what America did in response to that. And so I feel like they're both similar enough in that sense. That the idea that this woman also directed a movie about surfers who commit bank robberies. I mean, let's just say I'm intrigued to see the hard left. Turn were I'm to take also. His name is coach Taylor so there it is. Yeah you're welcome.

59:49 It was better when it was coach. What's his face? So Kathryn Bigelow does not get nominated for best director in this year, for zero-dark, thirty, which I think is really fascinating. This was the subject again of some controversy. And I don't know if you've talked about this Brad, but this was the year that are go, came out and Argo goes on to win best picture. Ben Affleck. This was like his big comeback movie as a director and people were starting to give him his flowers and then he wins like the Directors Guild award. And then for some reason, he doesn't even get nominated for the Oscar and that's kind of how our go takes pole position. At the Oscars is that people were rallying around Ben Affleck and basically being like, well if it's not going to win best director, like let's give it best picture and so I can't remember a year where there were two bigger omissions in the best director category because I'm looking at the list now and a couple of these people. I'm like, yes, I absolutely think they belong here but to leave Kathryn.

1:00:47 Bigelow out of this I think, is kind of a staggering Omission because this is as well. Directed, if not better. Well, if not better directed, then The Hurt Locker was. Yeah, I think it is. Well, I don't know if I think it is. Maybe I need to ponder that Bob. She should have at least been nominated. I guess is what I'm saying? No, I'm with you. This is a high enough quality movie that it deserves a nomination. I think that 2010 was a weaker year for the Oscars. And so I think that makes sense that she would win that year as opposed to this year.

1:01:27 Do I think that this is better directed than I? Just think when you think about like she said they shot two million feet of film on this movie and like who all of the tiny little scenes that they had to do like an entire, you know, get an entire crowd shot, just for like a five-second insert of somebody getting followed through a crowd or all of the Drone footage. All of the night-vision footage like the the entire half hour long assault on that complex is such a way. Well, directed piece of action Cinema. Like, I just yeah, I don't know, man. Like I think sometimes we look at action movies, especially movies like this that are very big in scope and we don't, we don't really think about just how big the scope is. I've, I have now seen after last week, I have now seen the movie Top Gun Maverick five times in theaters Brad, and I'm like, it's quite a few times.

1:02:22 This is one of the best directed movies I've seen in a long time and certainly one of the best edited because there's just A mountain of stuff to stitch together and the fact that it even can be coherent at the end of it. I think is like a miracle in itself and I kind of feel that way with this movie too. Yeah, I think you're probably right. I think that I'm holding the length of the movie against it, but when you break down each individual sketch, if you will, and I will say the, the whole naming each like, yeah, crime of that. Not a fan at all. Like honestly I wish that they just put up the year like now it's now it's 2006.

1:03:04 Yep. You know Pat a Pockets down with that's where we are now. Like That would have been much better, but when you, when you look at each individual little vignette, they're pretty incredible dude. Yeah. And I think this would be a movie worth watching in two sittings and I feel like I would rarely say that but this is one where like, when you hit the end of one of the vignettes like halfway through, I think it would almost be worth taking a night off and finishing it the next day. Yeah, I'm actually I'm right there with you and I think that is a perfect segue into our final Women of the day which we call, let's make it a double we near the end of the episode. So thanks for listening to the film and whiskey show. Let's pair another film with this one. Even if it's struggle, it's a final segment of the day. Now let's make it a double.

1:03:52 Let's make it a double as the part of the show, where we pick a movie to pair up with this one to make the perfect double feature. Brad, I'll let you go first, but I D, I do think I have a couple of movies in mind for this one. And I am, I'm not going to lie, I think I'm pretty incredible at. Let's make it a double this week. I'm coming up short. I literally can't think of a movie that I'm just, like hands down. This is a perfect fit for this as it is. I think I'm going to go with the Jason Bourne, The Bourne Identity? Hmm. I do think that it is, you know, the Bourne Identity. Is much more of a classic Thriller drama type of movie. But I think that there's enough of the same blood running through its veins, that it would make for a really fun night to go from this into a little bit.

1:04:50 Lighter hearted Bourne, Identity, Mmm. Yeah, man. I think it's a great pic. I, you know, I, when I was watching this movie, once again, I was really blown away at what a matter of fact, filmmaker Kathryn Bigelow. It's like the way she shoots the action in this movie is very rarely like I want to say artistic, but it's not like, it's not meant to be aesthetic. It's meant to be functional. And I think once again I said this last week, she reminds me a lot of Ridley Scott in the way that she shoot some of her action scenes and that, and Black Hawk Down, I think is really like a pretty major influence on this movie. I'm not going to go with Black Hawk Down though. I think the movie that I've that would make them more interesting.

1:05:31 Double feature is a movie by Steven. Soderberg called traffic smoothie came out in the year 2000 and it is one of the first kind of like shaky cam movies, but it also tells this huge episodic Anthology almost and it's about the war against drugs in America and in the Mexican cartels and it follows like three or four different groups of people. And I think that the way that movie is structured, the rhythm of that movie is so similar to Zero. Dark Thirty They tell completely different stories but they're so similar like rhythmically that I think that would make a really, really interesting double feature brother I'm looking at the cast for traffic.

1:06:16 It is like Peak 2000. So it's a great, Michael Michael, Douglas, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Dennis Quaid, like that needs to be dealt or a man Benicio. Don Cheadle, that's a lineup right there, man. It's a good movie. Yeah, I'm down. Let's watch it. Sometime. All right, so that's what we have for Less. Make it a double Brad's going with the Bourne Identity. I am going with traffic and now it's time for our final scores, Brad. I don't think we need to belabor this point anymore. I'm going to give it an eight and a half. I think that Part of me wants to give it an eight but I respect the swing of this movie and I respect how much the sheer volume of this movie is so much greater than The Hurt Locker. And I think The Hurt Locker might be slightly more effective at what it's trying to do.

1:07:05 But I also think that movies in this genre that we're identifying kind of have a ceiling for how entertaining they can be, if that makes sense. Yeah, like a movie, like Spotlight is a really well-made movie but I'm not. Always like riveted by what's happening. It's more just like I appreciate the work. These people went through to chase down their story and I kind of feel like that would Zero Dark Thirty. I appreciate watching these people track a guy halfway across the world for two and a half hours so I'm going to give it an eight and a half, I'll give it an eight. I think that this is like a pretty entertaining if I will say, Bob the first 30 minutes of the film they have like three Sure scenes that each last like, eight minutes long. Yep, it's rough.

1:07:53 Dude. Like that was definitely a bit of a struggle for me but once we got past that I think the movie definitely moved along at a pretty good clip. Yeah I think it's an 8 out of 10 movie. Alright. So we are coming out to an eight point two five out of ten but we'd like to know what you think is Zero Dark Thirty the better movie or is The Hurt Locker. You can let us know on Facebook, Twitter. Instagram or Tick-Tock at film whiskey or jump onto the Discord. We are on there every single day talking to you guys, the fans of the film and whiskey podcast. So if you want to join the conversation, you can find a link to our Discord. At the end of every single one of our show notes. Next week, we are rounding out our discussion of Kathryn Bigelow with just the most Surfer a movie of all time. Patrick Swayze Keanu.

1:08:44 Reeves in Point Break, I'm excited for that one, Brad because spoiler Alert. I have never seen it. Oh, oh, man, that's exciting. Yeah, man. I'm pretty pumped for it. So we'll be back next week with Point Break but until then, I'm Bob book, I'm Reggie and we'll see you next time.