Whiplash / Sazerac Rye 18 Years Old

0:00 In 2014, director Damien Chazelle and star JK Simmons gave the world an emotionally devastating exploration of what it takes to achieve greatness. In 2024 we try a rye that could be in class with Miles Teller. The film is. Whiplash. The whiskey is Sazerac Rye. And we'll review them both. This is the film and Whiskey. Podcast. Welcome to the Film and Whiskey podcast, where each week we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey. I'm Bob Book.

0:53 I'm Brad Gee. And Brad, it is week #5 of season #9 here on Film and Whiskey. This season, what we're doing is we're looking at films from the last 20 years, and we're considering whether or not they deserve to be called modern classics. These are films that have either shown up on the IMDb Top 250, the Letterbox Top 250, have grossed $100 million at the US box office or have been nominated for best picture or some combination of of those categories. And I believe our movie for today, Whiplash, which is just celebrating its 10th anniversary, checks three of those boxes. It didn't.

1:34 It didn't check the box office box but I think it's in all the other 3. I I was gonna say, I think it's pronounced whiplash. Whiplash. Yeah, that's that's correct. I forgot that. I forgot the emphasis over the H. Yeah, if the if the marketing team had done a better job, it probably would have made more money. If it was known as its proper pronunciation, yeah, sure. But Bob, I am not in awe that this didn't make a lot of money. Like when you look at the lineup of best picture nominees for this year, it's a wild time it. I mean, it's going up against juggernauts like American Sniper. What? What were a few of the other ones 'cause I like as I was looking at it.

2:16 I thought for two seconds that you'd actually done your research and you were like, I listened to this list and then you named one movie and said, what are the other? Ones I I trust you Bob, to know the other. Nominees. Oh, man. OK, let's see. Giving you a chance to shine. Let's see, off the top of my head, the winner of Best Picture this year was Birdman, which means it was also up against the movie Boyhood. It was up against this movie. It was up against American Sniper. Maybe The Imitation Game was this year. No, the theory of everything was must have been this year. I don't freaking know. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, this was a good year for movies, and Whiplash may be the best one.

2:57 Question mark. Far and away the best one you think better. Better than Birdman, better than American Sniper. I I love both of those movies. Bob, this is a better film. You know what's really cool about this movie, Brad? And and we'll get into other things we need to get into in a second here, but they literally right after we announced the lineup of movies for this season, I pulled up my Regal app one night because I wanted to go see a movie and I want to see what was playing. And they were doing a whiplash 10th anniversary re release. And I was like, hell yes, I went right that night and watched this movie in theaters. This thing still plays like gangbusters, dude it and I'm so glad I saw it in the theater again. It was freaking awesome.

3:40 Yeah, and this is not quite. It is almost in the halls of the storied 90 minute movie. I mean it's like barely an hour and 40 minutes, which like I'll give it credit if a if a movie ends at 1:39, I'll call it a 90 minute movie. Not quite there but man oh man this film moves so fast and has 0 fat on it and just I want to see it in theaters so. Badly, Bob, Every time I return to this movie. And so over the last week or so since I went to the theater and saw it, I've been thinking about what I want to say on this episode. And I keep thinking I need to go back and listen to the first time we recorded this because surely this is a revisit episode for us.

4:30 Somehow we made it to Season 9 without talking about Whiplash, Brad. So it's it's kind of crazy, but it makes me feel kind of nostalgic and puts me in that like Season 1 mode of film and whiskey. And what's even crazier is that you told a story about your first time seeing this movie, and it included a name that listeners of this show have not heard since season 1. Brad, why don't you clue us in a little bit to who our guest is today? Bob, today we are bringing the absolutely illustrious. One of my greatest friends in the world has seen me through thick and thin. Jordan Andrew McCain. Jordan.

5:12 Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. How? You doing man? Doing good. I thought this was a podcast for Drumline. That's what I watched to get ready. Is that not? That's not correct. That would be a perfect. Let's make it a double though. That it sure will. OK. That's the one. Nick or drumline? Nick Cannon is good. Nick Cannon's good Nick Cannon probably had kids in in Miles Teller's class in this movie too. So there you go. Oh man, it's all connected somewhere. Yeah, not comment. Jordan, we literally have not seen or heard from for mucin season 1. So I'm glad that the missing persons report we filed worked. You're you're home safe. Everything's going well.

5:52 Here's the here's the back story of Jordan being in season 1. Brad and I decided to start a podcast and we said, hey, let's record some episodes together. And this was in the pre using Zoom as a socially acceptable means of recording days I. Think we recorded on like a a speakerphone like we did. A conference call microphone. That's all we. Have to record on call, Mike. The 1st 4 episodes of film and whiskey were filmed were recorded in a church basement and Brad showed up on the day with Jordan and was just like hey Jordan's coming he's just gonna hang out and work while we do 8 hours of recording today I'm. None of us had kids. No, Yeah, that's true.

6:37 I would say I'm pretty sure I let you know that that Jordan was going to record with us. I might not have. No, what you said was Jordan is coming, but he's totally cool with just working while we record. And so we were like I said, dude, we absolutely not. I'm just going to, I'm not going to make him sit over in the corner and listen to us ramble about four movies. So Jordan was our first guest host on two of the 1st 4 episodes, I believe it was 12 Angry Men and Inglorious Basterds. So dude, you are like 3 for three on picking great movies to join us for. These are three of my, I mean, these are a lot of my favorite movies. I just say, Brad, you're bringing me along, assuming I'm just going to do this. It's a very Terrence Fletcher, Fletcher move.

7:18 It's just like, oh, we're I'm going to make it happen. We're going to make greatness happen. Yeah, I will say Jordan and I's relationship over the years has been tumultuous at times and so I thought it appropriate that he come join us for Whiplash. If if you recall Jordan, you were a massive fan of Whiplash, absolutely love the movie and every time our friend group in seminary would get together to to watch a film, you would suggest Whiplash. And what was my response generally? Oh, you mean the movie with JK Rowling? JK Rowling, It's, you know, what's crazy, though, is I think that JK Rowling has verbatim tweeted some of the things that JK Simmons says in this movie. So it really does all connect, yeah. I will if you like a pig.

8:11 Yeah, something about something along those lines. All right, guys, let's dive into talking about the movie itself. And in order to get that conversation going, it's time for our first segment of the day, which we call, Brad Explains. Brad's going to give us the movie plots with only 60 seconds ticking on the clock, so let's go ahead and do your take with this little segment that we call, Brad explains. Brad Explains is the part of the show where Brad breaks down the plot of the film that he has just seen, often for the first time. Brad, what's the watch counter at on Whiplash for you? Probably this was my fifth or sixth time. Oh man, this is like at the upper reaches the upper limits of the bell curve for you A. 100% yeah.

8:56 And honestly, like Jordan had tried to get me to watch it for probably 2 years before I finally sat down and watched it. Jordan, I don't remember. Jordan is the first time I watched it. Was it with you or did I watch it on my own? I think you watched it on your own. Oh man, I'm sorry dude, I should have watched it with you. Wow, riveting stuff, guys. OK, so Brad explains. Brad, you have 60 seconds to breakdown the plot of this film. This is going to be full of spoilers, folks. So if you've not seen Whiplash, first of all, we've already given you our recommendation. You need to hit pause here. Go watch the movie and then rejoin us, Brad. One minute and go. Whiplash, also known as Whiplash, is a film about a young drummer named Andrew Niemann who is at a prestigious music Academy in New York City. His drug is being great and JK Simmons plays his teacher Terrence Fletcher, who is his drug dealer. That's it, huh?

9:58 That's what we're going to. Bro, if you haven't seen Whiplash, go watch it. It's really good. Like it's an hour and 40 minutes. People, I just want you to watch this movie. So the director of this film, Damien Chazelle, kind of bursts on the scene with this movie. Chazelle is a trained jazz musician and filmmaker, and he carved out his little niche in filmmaking by making a short film version of Whiplash that was kind of his proof of concept. He submitted it to a bunch of film festivals as a way of trying to to secure funding for the full length film. They actually got JK Simmons to be in the short film version of Whiplash. It's pretty cool if you've if you've never seen the short film, it's essentially that first extended sequence of Are you going to be on My Time?

10:46 And that's like, that's the movie really, really great. Little short film builds a lot of tension and Chazelle pretty quickly establishes himself as a young master of the craft. He then goes on to make La La Land because they gave him a bunch of money. After La La Land, he makes his Neil Armstrong biopic First Man, and then he makes Babylon, which was a colossal flop. And people are in interesting places on Chazelle now. I think that they they still look at him as a guy with tremendous talent and the ability to take a big swing. But I'm going to be honest, I don't know if he's ever topped this movie. Like this is such an economical movie, both in like how they spend the budget and in how there's no fat on this thing at all that it's it's kind of hard to find a way to one up this movie, even one of the with a movie like La La Land, that goes for excess. I don't know if it beats Whiplash for me, Brad. Yeah, there is.

11:45 I don't know if we've ever watched a movie on this podcast that has a more clear through line throughout the film. Yeah, like I like, I just, I really can't think of many movies that are more dedicated to the main story, the main thrust of the film, and just never, ever strays from what the movie is all about, which makes sense because that is what the main character is doing throughout this movie. Yeah. I mean, trying to think of a movie that is as focused. Yeah, I it would be 1. I mean, it's in my top 10. It's one of those that really epitomizes a perfect story structure.

12:31 And even although I will say for me, because of the things that brings up in me when I was even trying to draw the story structure of like what is the climax of this movie? I'm not 100% certain that it's not supposed to be the end. But if you talk about the scenes that are like the best in this movie, you're like, is there anything other than the ending of this movie that is one of the greatest moments? Like instant. It is just so intense and then it pop. Yeah, I mean, you're right. It's just hard to believe. It's a perfectly structured story, but it doesn't follow like the three act structure. It doesn't have like the rise and fall kind of denouement at the end of the movie. It's more like a freight train that gets moving and then can't stop.

13:12 And Chazelle even commented on how he wanted to make the original short film kind of echo a sense of dread that he had by being in this kind of high stakes jazz band, which is a hilarious sentence to say I was in the high stakes jazz band. You don't understand, man. But but dread is what this movie does really well. I watched this movie in theaters back in 2014 and I walked out of it. And I remember posting like, this is the most terrifying movie I've seen in a long time. Like it was, it's it's scary to watch how this movie brings up that sense of tension, of suspense, of dread within you, and it doesn't let up. And then, depending on your interpretation of the ending, gets even more horrifying at the end of the film.

13:58 Also, the idea of posting like, like grandpa. Tell us about what it was like to post on Facebook in 2014. Do you? Remember when Facebook statuses used to like come with the word is pre programmed, be like Brad G is and then you were supposed to finish the sentence. A book is afraid of JK Simmons. 100% man, still to this day. OK, let's let's start talking about the film itself. I want to start with Miles Teller, who prior to this movie had really only made maybe one film that people had seen and started hyping him up for. It was a small indie movie called The Spectacular. Now, he was really good in that movie, and then he comes out with this and I remember walking out of this movie and thinking like that dude is going to be a movie star. And I think some.

14:49 Then he was in the Fantastic Four fan. Four stick. Yeah, it it did not go well for him, I think partially because he has a low key reputation for being kind of difficult. But then also he made a a couple movies that just did not work. And his big return to form was supposed to be Top Gun Maverick, which was supposed to come out in I think 2019 and then got delayed by almost three years. So by the time Top Gun Maverick comes out, we really hadn't heard from Miles Teller on a major scale in a couple years. I would really like to see him kind of continue the momentum of Top Gun Maverick and and find his footing again, because I do think that he's one of those young actors, similar to when we talked about Shia LaBeouf, Brad, that like he had the raw kind of rage within him that he could channel really, really well.

15:42 And now that he's older, I want to start seeing him fine tune it. And I think he deserves to be a star. I just don't know where do you guys kind of consider him in the Hollywood star tier ranking now? Would you consider him like an A Lister or where would where would he fall in that kind of ranking? Yeah, I, I would love to hear your reflections walking out that made you feel that way. I he is not the I mean, as bad as it sounds, he's not the person I think about his acting when I walk out of this movie. Like I think he's good. And in some ways he is the moon reflecting the sun. Like he does a good job punching a drum and being very upset.

16:26 And he even says that he's upset at a certain point. But I, I did not walk out thinking like, man, that guy is going to make it someday. It's just like, wow, this was a really good role for him. But wow, JK Simmons is a really good actor. That's all I could ever think about when I watch this movie. Yeah, I was going to say, I think I'm kind of with Jordan on this one. Like Miles Teller is very good in this movie. I think that he has a brooding intensity about him that like ramps up throughout the film until you get to the car crash sequence, which is almost feels reminiscent of our very first episode, the the Goodfellas drug sequence.

17:09 And I think, I think Teller really knocks it out of the park here. But I, I am just going to say there's no better way to describe it. He is the moon reflecting the sun. That is JK Simmons. Yeah, I, I'm with both of you. I I also think that watching a film of an up and Comer 10 years ago and being able to identify like he's got it, this isn't this isn't it yet, but he's got it within him is very different than now. Revisiting it after seeing him in more movies and kind of just improving his craft. I'm I'm with you that there's a few scenes where I'm like, oh, he's still young. Like he's, he's still not quite there on JK Simmons level. Even even the I'm upset line where when he's screaming and it's like, oh, this is not believable. But aside from that, he has to be in every single scene of this movie.

18:01 Like there is no scene in the film that he is not in. Everything is told from his perspective. And I think for being on screen for the entirety of the film, he anchors it down pretty well because if he was going to be as big and over the top as JK Simmons is, this movie would not work. It would just be a shouting match. Yeah, I I think that he he has a talent for holding back until the very end there. There's just little moments that you want him to be a better actor. But I, I guess when you look at his overall career, because that's where this conversation kind of started, Bob, I don't know if I've ever thought of Miles Teller as a great actor. Like I've other than Whiplash, I've never seen him in something and gone man, that guy's going to be a movie star. And if I'm being blunt with you, Bob, it's because he's like an above average actor with below average looks. And that like, if that's a recipe for success in Hollywood, then I, I don't know what we've been watching for 100 years. It is pretty funny the bar that we set for people's looks in Hollywood though, 'cause I think he is a generally good looking guy.

19:13 He's just not movie star Hans, He's not Glenn Powell, you know what I mean? Like you put him next to Glenn Powell. Sure. I would say he's no Jordan McCain. We'll, we'll just put it that way. He is. Whiplash. With Glenn Powell, that could be something that could be a crazy remake. Glenn Powell could have been like the the Irish guy that is that's like the third up on the drums that he makes fun of that would that would have been a. Perfect Glenn Powell role. I love the line 'cause it reveals like a lack of self-awareness for Fletcher JK Simmons character but I love the line when he goes. Connelly was just a a tactic to get you motivated. It's like, yeah, man, we, we all, we all got it.

19:56 We we were there. We saw. So I think that this could really quickly devolve into all of us just saying how good JK Simmons is over and over and over. And it would be deserved if we did that for him. But I think I just kind of want to talk around the character for a little bit. This is a character that I don't think we should reduce down to He is a villain or he does bad things or whatever, because there are there are elements of his character that are legitimately like some of the insults he says are the funniest things I've ever heard anybody say. Like he is clearly inflicting emotional abuse upon so many people. But then you're like, God, man, this guy is so good at insulting people.

20:41 Like when he when the the fat trombonist is looking down at the ground and he's like, what? What do you there's not a fucking Mars bar down there? Like it's the best line in the movie. I love it. I I think the thing that I am most fascinated by is the philosophy that he puts forth and so clearly believes in and the like the charisma that he utilizes to enforce that philosophy is like fascinating. And, and the more I thought about Jordan joining on this episode, the more I was like, I feel like he is the perfect person to talk about how dangerous and flawed having a philosophy such as Terence Fletcher's, that the only way to get greatness is to ridicule it into existence, to demand it into existence, to violently right like. You're you're challenging it, you're trying to coax it out of someone by needling them into showing it, essentially. Yeah, and I just, I, Jordan, I'm going to throw you either under the bus or maybe up on top of it like a champion. I think you should talk about that because I, I think that, yeah, your wisdom in the area of Terence Fletcher's philosophy on greatness would be great, greatly appreciated. I mean, I'm from Indiana and Bobby Knights are hero, so that's the only way to go in my opinion is that's how you create great people.

22:10 Listen, the results speak for themselves, man. 100 percent, 100% no. I mean, that is the thing about trials and tribulations, or however you want to put it. Trauma really is what it is. Like I'm, you know, we're all from the Midwest. And so I remember I have no experience with jazz. And as 3 white men, we can all just acknowledge that that's maybe isn't our area of expertise. But I remember watching this for the first time and being like, hey, somebody goes, this is a jazz drumming movie, you should watch it. And I'm like, sweet. So they're in this beautiful stately practice area. And then JK Simmons begins saying things I've heard, like in my football locker room, right? Like, just like tearing these people apart. And I remember it brought me back very viscerally to moments of like, what's going to happen at the end of this pump up speech?

23:12 Like, are these 1819 year olds who are getting ready for the game, are they going to respond and yell and like go out there and kick butt? Or are they going to realize they're being verbally abused and roll over? And, and it's, it's a fine line because if you respond well to it, the ends will always seem to justify the means. And I think it's very accepted and normal. I think that that gets old pretty quick, but it actually is. It can be work really well when you're young and you just want it that badly. I think we all lose our tolerance for that as we age would be my guess. I don't know your guys experiences have been. I mean, I remember viscerally 9th grade basketball, we lost to, I think it was North Ridgeville, a team that we never should have lost to.

24:03 And Coach Siciliano, this like 5 feet. He said he said, raging Italian man. He said you. Lose at the game, you know, get at a pizza. That's what he said, right? He he was very Italian. He had do you do you know those like the mini water bottles that have like 4 ounces in them? He whipped one of those suckers against the chalkboard and it stuck in the chalkboard. He he like hit it with the cap and it stuck in the chalkboard and he kept screaming. And then he said. And then he said, did you know that Charlie Parker got a symbol thrown at his head?

24:44 This water bottle will bring out the greatness in you. Exactly. Yeah. So 100%, man. I think the fascinating thing that this movie does is that it sets the backdrop of this older student who had been abused by JK Simmons against the story of Andrew Niemann. And so even as the film ends, I like I this didn't happen to me the first time or even the second time. But the last few times I've watched this movie, as soon as the movie ends and Whiplash hits the screen, I think about that student who killed himself 5-6 years later and I'm like, oh, Neiman is headed down that same track. Oh, 100%.

25:27 And so this is actually where I think the movie succeeds the most is not in the scenes where he is humiliating people publicly. It's when he's kind of like working the back channels in between things and he's trying to be buddy buddy with Andrew and asking about his mom and dad. And then you come to find out five minutes later, he only cares about the mom and dad so that he can have ammunition to use. But that final scene that they have in the bar after Andrew has already, you know, ratted him out, basically, there's such a weird combination of things he's saying to Andrew that are complete lies and things that are complete truths about himself. That's that's the scene where you get his philosophy about himself and his teaching style.

26:12 And it's also the scene where he starts kind of stroking Andrew's ego again to get him to accept this invitation to play at the end of the film, which is all an elaborate ruse to sabotage Andrew one last time. It's freaking crazy. This guy is an absolute psychopath. But you buy into the world that they've created. And I think that this is kind of where I want to go for the next little segment, guys, 10 years on from the movie, I'm, I'm wondering like, as I'm watching it, how is this aging? Like, is it a little? Does it feel a little dated in an era where we're like, post me too now and Me too hadn't even happened when this movie came out.

26:54 I just don't think anyone in this day and age would like Gen. Z would get away with like, slapping a student repeatedly in class. And so you you kind of have to take off your 2024 goggles in those early scenes and either get on board with the world of this movie, which is slightly exaggerated, or it's not going to work for you. And I will say that like, once I got on board with, you know what, whether this would happen in the real world, I think that they do a plausible enough job with like, hey, everyone knows it's happening, but nobody will say anything. And once they kind of established that, I was bought in again. And I'm just kind of wondering like, did you guys have that layer of disconnect from the movie this time around or are you like all the way bought in from the beginning? I don't know, man.

27:43 I, I have heard enough stories now, and not just the Bobby Knights of the world that are big and famous. I, I, I've heard enough stories and I've seen enough people like this. I've listened to the rise and fall of Mars Hill. I I don't think this exaggerates anything like not not to like completely contradict. Your point, Bob I no, you're right. You're right. Like, I think stuff like this happens way too often when you get these insular, insulated worlds where a narcissistic personality is allowed free reign because he does bring about greatness and he brings home trophies from these competitions and he produces some great musicians. It's like, OK, well, we're just, you know, it's just Fletcher being Fletcher.

28:32 I like, I don't know, I, I never once thought that this was, like an exaggerated world. It it felt eerily too similar to a real world, for me at least. I see both. I think I would agree with Brad that I imagine it's happening. I don't know if anything changes more than it just shifts in where it's located or what happened. So maybe it's not happening in this version of Juilliard or whatever their school is, but it's probably happening in small town, whatever Ohio, right, Like probably happening there. What I think is interesting that I think is different in 2024 is the thing I hear most consistently from people working with young folks when it comes to coaching or teaching, is the level of like emotional resilience in young people is on such a decline that like, I don't know if how many students would even show up for this jazz club team, whatever it is, but jazz band, that's how much I know about jazz.

29:41 I don't know what it's called, but I don't know how many would show up after three sessions because they would be so discouraged so quickly that they would just quit. Now, again, that's also contextual, situational, but that's like the most consistent thing I hear, even at college levels is like, kid strikes out, he goes to the dugout and he thinks he's the worst baseball player who's ever lived as opposed to just like, yeah, dude, you just struck out like you. That's how that's what baseball is, you know? And it's just really hard to get them through those low points. I think actually the resilience for me feels crazy. I'm going to be honest, man, it kind of sounds like you're making JK Simmons point for him a little bit that like, hey, if we're ever going to find the next bird, you got to throw some symbols.

30:30 These kids, these. Kids, I don't think that's that's not how you build resilience. You don't build resilience that way. He JK Simmons is taking advantage of resilience that already exists. You know this, you're not arguing for it, but you know, but he is taking advantage of whatever level of emotional maturity they have and then trying to strip it down and own it. And I just don't know how much of that even exists unless you're a pretty emotionally healthy family in this day and age. You should see how many symbols Jordan throws at our church. It's just. We, we go through so many, the budget for symbols each year is astronomical. So guys, before we go to break, I want to talk a little bit about Andrew's kind of downward trajectory. And this time around, you know, it's it's always been there in the movie and it's told like a Horror Story and it's told to Brad's point, like an addiction story. Like you could pair this movie up with something like Requiem for a Dream and it would make a super depressing but not at all dissimilar experience.

31:33 And this time around, though, what I really found fascinating was how Andrew's, for lack of a better term, like assholeishness. I don't want to call it sociopathy, but his inability to get in contact with his own emotions and feelings and ability to process what's going on with him and his decision to push people away. It's there in the early scenes of the movie, even before you kind of get into the downward descent. So that by the time he breaks up with his girlfriend, it's just, it's so callous. But he does it in a way that for him is just, it's like, yeah, I'm going to lay out the facts. I'm super obsessed with this. And I can't pull myself out of its its clutches. And so, like, we should not be together anymore. And what she responds to is like, what's wrong with you, dude?

32:23 How can you talk like that and not feel anything? And I think the movie does such a good job of establishing, yes, Fletcher is horrible and manipulative, but Andrew's also the kind of guy that here's this philosophy and is like, oh, that makes total sense. That's me. I need to do that. Yeah, I, I mean, for me, Andrew is like one giant trauma response. Like, like they said it from the start. His mother left them when he was a child. And everything from the movie flows from that. Like he has zero empathy for others. He has zero compassion for others and the only times he really gets emotional in the film are when he is getting the hit of the drug of like fighting for his dreams of greatness.

33:15 And so the the this time through I especially noticed it. He plays everything so deadpan outside of his drumming career that the only time he gets passionate is when he's at the dinner table with his family who doesn't understand him and they are belittling him and don't don't understand his desires. That's when he gets passionate. When JK Simmons is like talking to him about his philosophy, he doesn't even get excited. He's still completely deadpan. It's not until he has the offer of drumming again that he starts to show emotion. And so for me, like this is a very, very classic trauma story of a young man who has gone through a horrific, terrible thing of losing a mother and the results that happened from that.

34:08 They also do such a good job though of at multiple points in the movie, giving Andrew these kind of inflection points where for the audience, depending on how you want to read his character, his moments are either heroic or they're signs of his continuing decline into like madness. And that dinner table scene is such a good example because they set it up by his dad who dotes on him, who gives him everything, getting made fun of himself by his brother or brother-in-law. And they say he overcooked something and he doesn't say anything. And he's real meek and mild mannered. And then the kid says something to Andrew and Andrew's like, absolutely not. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to belittle you. I'm going to tell you that you're at AD 3 school, that you will never play in the NFL.

34:56 And. Tell me that's not a great line though, just the way he quietly goes. It's Division Three. It's AD 3. School, yeah, But it's see, as an audience member, you're like, yeah, he's sticking up for himself. He's sticking up for his dad. But what's really happening there is he's a like, just taking it out on the poor guy. But also he's just reflecting the exact type of challenge to that guy's greatness that he's been receiving from JK Simmons. And it's just really scary to see how that philosophy is being perpetuated. And you see that when the chord drummer and how he treats him as he loses the sheet music.

35:36 Are you talking about immediately? Are you talking about great value, Ted Mosby? Yes, yeah. OK. Just just making sure. That's funny. That, that is a perfect description. I think his name is Tanner in the movie. The way he belittles Andrew is exactly what JK Simmons does. And so, yeah, I love those moments where you're like, oh, this philosophy is completely permutating the little world that Fletcher has created at what the Shaffer Conservatory, I think it's called. You notice too, that you know the way that Holtz work is they attempt to make you cut off all interaction with anyone outside of the group.

36:23 And if you follow like the synergy of the conversation is, JK Simmons slowly but surely makes fun of and mocks every outside relationship that Andrew has, including his dad and his mom, right. He learns just a little bit about his dad and then uses that to prove he's not good enough. And then if you actually track, it's funny you say that Bob, that his dad dotes on him. Because if you track their conversations, every single one ends with his dad disagreeing with Andrew's choices. For sure. Which makes for an interesting like, OK, so my dad doesn't understand me even though he's nice about it. So who is going to understand me and understand what I care about? It's going to be this guy.

37:07 So normally there would be a triangle for Andrew to get out of this or to get some anxiety out of the system. But instead it always goes back to parents every time. It just keeps going back to him and it they were like, inevitably drawn towards each other because of their focus. And it kind of creates this weird synergistic, emotional. What do you call it? It's codependency. Yeah. I mean in a lot of ways. And the very end of the movie, my favorite shot in the whole movie, is, is might not be what you expect, but he's been embarrassed by Fletcher on stage. And his dad gives him a hug and he's like, come on, let's go home. And then Andrew breaks away and goes back and again as an audience member, at first you're like, yeah, he's going to go stick it to that guy.

37:51 He's going to prove him wrong. And as Andrew gets into his solo and become something like otherworldly and not human anymore, like truly monstrous on stage, they cut back to his dad looking through the door and like literally like shrinking away in horror at what his son has become. And it's this great because the whole movie they've been painting this triangle of like, is he going to go with his dad or is he going to go with his other perverted father figure in Fletcher? And this is him fully embracing Fletcher. And then you get the end of the film where he he hits the snare and looks up and it's this like hopeful, like, please accept me dad look.

38:35 And then you get that like demonic smile from Simmons. And that's the end of the movie. And it's like, holy crap, dude. It's, I mean, it is dealing with so many parasocial relationships, codependent relationships in a way that is just absolutely terrifying. Am I right in calling this a horror film of sorts? Oh dude, 100%. And I think the reason Simmons wins an Academy Award here is not just for all the bombastic, ridiculous things that he does. It's for the moment that he picks up the symbol that Neiman has dropped, has knocked over. Dude.

39:16 The way he picks that up and looks at Neiman, it's as if. It's completely, it's like, it's like he has locked in on this guy as a peer and then they're just like bro and out together and it's almost creepier to see him being friends with this guy. It's a completely different character than you've seen in the whole movie. Well, it, it feels like almost like a maternal mothering, like like here you go, here's your toy. I'm going to take care of you. I'm here to nurture you. I like, I can't communicate the ickiness that I felt watching him put that symbol back up. And like, it's moments like that why you hire JK Simmons and why he wins an Oscar. Yeah, also if you need pictures of Spider Man, you can hire him too.

40:03 Like those are really the two reasons you hire the guy. You know who I think of it. It hit me as we've been talking about him, I think of JK Simmons and Willem Dafoe in a very similar category of like some of the absolute best actors that we have that don't give an absolute RIP about Academy Awards, about making money. They just love the craft of acting. Well guys, on that note, I think it's a good time for us to hit pause. Brad and I have to go drink some very pricey whiskey and then after we're done doing that. The the horrors. I'll tell you what the things we do for you, film and Whiskey Nation. After that we'll come back and I'm going to give my let's make it a double way early because I want to talk about it with you guys.

40:51 Brad, what do you say we drink some whiskey? I am ready, Robert. Let's get to it. All right. Today we are continuing our trip through last year's Buffalo Trace Antique Collection. We've now done three of them, which means we have two left. And the fourth one in our list is Sazerac Rye. Now, Brad, we have tried the much cheaper alternative to this Sazerac rye, which is known as colloquially as Baby Saz. That's the one you can get for like 30 bucks. But because it's made by Buffalo Trace, even that is sometimes hard to find. We did that way back in like like season 2 or 3. So this is not that.

41:33 This is the Sazerac 18 year whiskey and this particular bottle is coming in at 18 years and five months old. Brad is. So it was bottled. I'm sorry it was barreled in like May of 2005. Dang, think about the world in 2005, Bob. I was finishing up my freshman year of high school. Sure was. Yeah, Iraq going on kind of a big deal. Like, it's not the Iraq war, it's just Iraq. Iraq was happening, you know, it was the nation of Iraq. Have you ever tried Sazerac ride before, Brad? Like the the big boy here.

42:15 I don't think I have I I think this is my first time in and I'm curious about this 90 proof point. Yeah, they water it all the way down to 90 proof. It's something to do every year and that's probably because when you look at the fact sheet on this, because it's so old, 74% of the initial volume has been lost to evaporation. So only 1/4 of the barrel is remaining. They frankly, they could probably sell this for more than they do given how old it is. It was 135 proof off the still barrel entry proof was 125. So I have to imagine what was left in the barrel was like hazmat level, so they would have had to water it down anyway. But 90 proof, that's what we're working with here today, man. Yeah.

42:57 And I, you know, based on what they do with the stag and what did, what did we have last week, the Weller, Like, I don't know, I think he probably could have kept it at 135 proof and I would've been fascinated at what that whiskey tastes like. All right man, let's dive in. I'm really excited. I literally just poured this out and as I'm pouring it into my glencairn, I got a whiff from 2 feet away of honeydew and cantaloupe. This is super melon heavy. I'm going to let it kind of calm down a little bit in my glass while you give your nosing notes, Brad. I think once it settles down, it actually mellows out into this really nice. There's brown sugar, there's cinnamon, there's like a freshness of the rye and mint flavors coming through, and it really just kind of reminded me of like a nice cinnamony Raisin bread with a little bit of that fruitiness coming in. I think this is an absolutely stellar nose. I'm going to give it a nine and a half. I like this a lot.

44:01 There is something like it's really complex and there is a significantly more aroma than I would expect from a 90 proof rye and that is obviously due to it being 18 years old. There's a note in here that I can't quite put my finger on. It's that sort of yeastiness that we get on younger rise, not even like too young, like a one or two year old, but like a four year rye. And some of that is still hanging around here, which is really interesting to me because I would have expected this to be a much more kind of concentrated potent nose. And everything you're saying is here. But then there's just this one little whiff of like, huh, this tastes like, or this smells like an 18 year old rye with just a hint of like a four year old rye in it. So I'm a little bit lower than you. I'm going to give it an 8 1/2 on the nose. Yeah, and I think the palate, there is a lot of really nice flavors here.

44:56 I think that youth comes out in a little bit of a straw flavor, but the the mint comes through nice and strong. The rye is all there. It's a little bit Clovy, some vanilla really punches through and it and it kind of reminded me of like like a cream cheese icing that you put on a cinnamon roll that like there are some really nice, beautiful fit flavors here. And it just confirms to me again that the best Ryze out there are a mixture of the really nice, beautiful minty rye notes with a depth of and richness of flavor with that that cream cheese icing and vanilla and a little bit of brown sugar. I think this is a stellar palette that I'm going to give a nine out of 10 to.

45:45 All right, dude, Are you ready for this? I think, I think I'm going to have my first really spicy take on VTAC. I'm let down by this like a lot. So I keep a little bottle of whiskey next to our kind of recording station here that I use kind of as my baseline. Like if I, if I don't feel like my palate's quite ready to start tasting whiskey, I'll have just a, a little sip of that to kind of set a baseline expectation for what whiskey does on my palate. And I drank that and then I started drinking the B tack. And this is, this is much more sour. Obviously it's rye. So like I'm expecting it to have a little bit of those sort of like mint and dill notes. But the youthfulness that I picked up on the nose, which does not make sense.

46:31 Like this is 18 years old. It is not young. It carried through to the palate for me. It's a little bit too sour. It's a little bit too grassy and I think what, what'd you say? Straw? Straw's a good note here, but it doesn't bring any sort of caramel notes. It doesn't bring even, it doesn't even tip into like dill or mint. It just kind of has a really strong earthy tone. And I feel like the rye grain is swallowed up in this kind of sourness. Now. There was a slight hint of those like grandma strawberry candies that I got. And I was like oh interesting, 2nd sip it was gone again. I'm really really disappointed in this man. I'm just going to give this a 7 out of 10. Yeah, you are way off from where I'm at because I I think that there are some really beautiful flavors here. I think as I got into the finish, the rye really finishes things out nicely.

47:26 It turns a little bit vegetable. The leather starts to come through with the age. It has a little bit of an apricot kind of fruity type of flavor that lingered for a long time. It is a really long, mellow finish that I am all about. I like I'm sticking in this 9 zone Baba. I'm at a nine and a half on the finish. Yeah, man, we have had a lot of really great rise on this show, and this is just not one of them for me. I mean, it's it is fine, but it's surprisingly one note. And that note is just kind of grassy. So if you're into an earthy flavor, it does kind of remind me of like an entry level Scotch in that regard. Like it, it has that sort of earthy barley flavor to it. It just doesn't remind me of a good rye. And it's a little bit bitter, a little bit sour. It has kind of that toasted oak note that I don't like sometimes where the toast on the instead of the char, the toast on the barrel can impart a kind of sour flavor. This is not doing it for me.

48:29 Man. B.Tech, what the hell? 7 out of 10. Jeez, yeah, I think balance wise, we're at a nine out of 10. I think there's a decent amount of complexity here. It is not the most complex of the B tax. I I would say that so far this is the least complex and that's why I'm only at a nine. But I think the flavors you do get are awesome. Awesome is a very generous term and I'm, I'm going to say, for me at least, decidedly not awesome. I'm going to go ahead and give this just a 7 out of 10. Again, I like, I don't want to tip into value yet my value score is going to be horrifically low on this.

49:11 Brad, I I mean, can we at least agree that this is a step down from the last two weeks? Yeah, I I do think that, I think that if this was in the hundred 110 proof range, it would be much, much better. I'm going to give it. I'm going to give it one more sip. This is your last chance, Sazerac, Because there's something within me that's like, I cannot, I can't give a $1500 whiskey this low of a score. But I'm I'm pretty sure I'm going to. Well, while you're doing that, I'm going to go into value I I think that this is not as good as the rest of the lineup. It's just too expensive for something that's proofed down to 90.

49:55 Like I said, I don't mind that they proof it down. Like you lost a lot in evaporation. Add a little water, take it from 1:30 down to 115, one O 5, but all the way down to 90. I think that it restricts the amount of notes that you can have on it. There's not quite enough complexity. I'm going to give it a 6 1/2 on value, like in the category of luxury whiskey. I think this is an OK value, but not something that's going to knock your socks off. Yeah, my, my suspicions are confirmed here. This just has kind of a generically almost mass produced vodka kind of flavor profile on the front of the palate where you can tell that there's ethanol and then some sort of not very well done grain mixture.

50:44 And then on the back of the palate it gets really bitter and herbal. And that's fine for some things, but it kind of, it almost had the effect of like when you and I have met up with our buddy Chris Blattner and done malort shots with him. Like there's, there's that sort of not even quite black licorice annis, but the Super bitter herbs on the back end of a malort are on the back of my palate right now. This is not great. And I have been giving B.Tech a baseline score of five out of 10 on value because I just don't think that I can go any lower or higher on any of them. This one has proved me wrong. I can go lower than five. I'm going to give this a three out of 10 on value, which is bringing my final score to a 32.5. Brad, where are you?

51:32 I am 11 points higher than you. I'm at a 43.5. I don't know if we've ever had a season where you and I have been so divergent. Yeah, yeah, this is a massive difference in opinion. I mean, I like, I love Ryze. I think that this offers so much of what rye can do. It just needs to be like 15 proof points higher and I would be in that upper echelon 45 plus. I was going to say our our last two weeks have been approaching the 90 mark, which is just an excellent whiskey, not just great, but truly excels. And this week we're at a 38 out of 50 due to my low score. Now I will say like I think that score does represent that both of us agree that this is a step down from the last two weeks. Whether you think it's a good whiskey or not, I don't know that this belongs in the price echelon of the other B.Tech offerings.

52:30 Like I'd probably be a little less harsh on this if this sold for MSRP and not for 10 times MSRP. But this kind of seems like the the odd one out of the line up so far. Here, I'm going to be honest with you, Bob, I'm looking back at my scores. I gave the WL Weller a 40 out of 50. So I like, while like just memory serving me, I feel like I liked the Weller more. I scored it 3 1/2 points lower than the rye. So I I do like this rye a lot. I think it's a really good whiskey. You know what is good, Brad? What's that? This the 2014 film Whiplash. What a film.

53:10 What a freaking movie. We should have used JK Simmons little one liners as as notes on our. Oh that would have been perfect. Man. I Is he like the greatest villain of all time? He's, I mean, he's certainly the most villainous villain. He's so good. All right, man, let's get back into talking with our friend Jordan about whiplash. What do you say? Let's get to it. All right, everybody. That was Sazerac Rye from the 2023 batch, a whiskey that hits the spot. But man, that's a lot of money, Bob. It's a lot of money, man. Didn't quite do it for me.

53:52 Not quite my tempo, Brad. No, not, not not quite my tempo. He doesn't he doesn't so good to the first like 6 times. Not, not not quite my. Tempo and it's it's the fact that he does it like 6 times, just completely calm, completely loving. To the point where you, well, and you can tell by like the third time he's screwed with him. And then it's like right before he jumps up to were you rushing or were you dragging anyway? Well, hey man, Speaking of being right on tempo, your boy is four. And oh, this season at our next game, which we call 2 facts and a falsehood. He's going to try to stump you. Ball 2 are right and what is wrong? 2 facts and a falsehood. 2 Facts and a Falsehood is the part of the show where Brad presents me with three items as fact about the making of this movie, one of which is a complete lie and I have to guess which one that is.

54:52 Now I have a ringer on hand today. Jordan McCain, expert in parasocial relationships. So hopefully all the questions are about that sort of thing and not actually about the making of the movie. They're all about family systems theories. Who knew? What does the DSM five say about dot dot dot? If you asked me a question about why the DSM 4 was better than the DSM 5:00, I could go on about that all day. I saw a meme on Instagram the other day that was like, girl, you're the you're the kind of girl that they write books about. Then the next page was a picture of the DSM 5. Jordan, has it been explained to you how this process works?

55:36 I think so. I think I get it. I'm not going to say anything unless you ask. Yeah, yeah. So Brad is a stickler with this. When we have a guest on the show, I can seek your counsel. But once I seek your counsel, even if I choose a different answer than what you gave me, he considers that I have received your counsel. So if I get the question correct, I get one victory, but if I get it wrong, I get 2 losses for having been LED astray by our guest. Yeah, it, it's kind of like the the game show the the three doors theory where if I, if I show you the open door and you switch, you have a higher chance of winning. I if you seek advice, you have a higher chance of winning.

56:16 So it there should be some stakes here. All right. Well, Brad, hit me with your two facts and a falsehood. Fact #1 Director Damien Chazelle took some jazz drumming lessons for six months to better understand the intricacies of jazz drumming as he had already been trained on piano and bass guitar. Fact #2 Though a visual double was used for certain sequences. All of Andrew's drumming was performed by Miles Teller himself to pre recorded tracks. Approximately 40% of Teller's actual drumming made it into the final soundtrack. Fact #3 JK Simmons brought a personal connection to his role in Whiplash, having his own musical background.

57:01 His mother was a middle school music teacher, and his father served as the director of the music department at the University of Montana, where JK himself earned a degree in music, lending authenticity to his portrayal of his role as Terrence Fletcher. I'm not sure about #3 #2 sounds kind of true, Jordan, and I'm just saying, Jordan, because I want to bounce ideas off of you as I watch your facial reactions to what I'm saying. I'm pretty sure that counts as asking for no. Come on. I'm not. I haven't asked anything. Let the record reflect. I haven't asked for a thing yet. I am pretty sure that Chazelle was a drummer, not a pianist.

57:45 And so I'm kind of thinking Brad tried to pull one over on us a little bit. And I'm a little bit tempted to say #1 is the falsehood? Because I'm like 95% sure Chazelle tried to do jazz drumming, was not very good at it, and then gave it up to become a film maker. That's why I needed lessons. Come on, dude, have you seen La La Land? You see how much piano is in that movie? You're telling me Chazelle is a jazz drummer? Honestly, here's the thing guys, I have never not sought the counsel of the guest. Mostly because it makes for horrible audio to just talk at the guest and then never allow them to respond. So Jordan, you're in this with me now.

58:27 Aside from #1, did anything else stand out to you as a potential falsehood? I would agree with you. AK Simmons does have a degree in music and I did know that Miles Teller, I knew he had been drumming. So I I think a lot of his stuff was used. I don't know, number one would strike me as the thing I know the least about. That seems the most suspicious to me. All right, then I think we're going to lock it in, Brad. I'm I'm staking my reputation, my four. No record on this. Number one is the falsehood. Jordan, you were correct. Miles Teller has been drumming since he was 15 years old, so a lot of his stuff was in fact used.

59:11 And Bob, you were also correct about fact #1 being the falsehood. I don't know if he was a jazz drummer. I know that he was a jazz musician based on my research. Well, let's pull it up here and see, see if it's on his Wikipedia. As I do that, let's get back into talking about the movie, guys. And I said that I was going to spoil my let's make it a double film really early. And I think it's because it is so pertinent to the conversation that we've been having. I'm going to pair this movie with the 8 hour excessively long documentary The Last Dance that came out a couple years ago about Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls. Because Brad, I've been telling you ever since that documentary came out, first of all, it's an absolute glazed job on Michael Jordan.

59:58 Like there it was like not objective at all. However. I think it did such a good job of unintentionally giving you an insight into what that mentality does to a person. Jordan just comes across as the most bitter, unforgiving, maladjusted old man who cannot let go of past slights that were either real or invented. And that kind of Mamba mentality that is so often praised among the greats in a sport. You know, Kobe had it, Michael had it. They always say LeBron doesn't have that mentality. And I always look at that and I say, well, like, it kind of seems like some of these guys just have their priorities in line.

1:00:45 Like you could be great at something and not be a horrible person in every other facet of life. And I guess I kind of just want to explore with you guys. Why is it that you think or what is it do you think is so appealing to consumers, to fans, especially in the area of sports where this obsessive consumed mentality is lauded in a person? And you know, why do we continue to celebrate it? I think it's simplicity man. Like humans crave simplicity in life and it's so easy to say, well, they're great because they cut everything else out and they spend all their time in the gym and they, they don't lose track of what will make them great.

1:01:35 They they have that killer instinct. And it's just this simple answer that like massages the part of our brain that wants everything to be obvious. And I like, I think it's way more than that. And I also think that we celebrate greatness in one area at the expense of a million other areas. Yeah, I was going to say in the first half, but Bob, it's so funny you call this a horror film because I love that you emphasize that. Because every time I watch this movie, all I can think of is Andrew did it like he did the thing, like he lived up to the expectation.

1:02:21 And that's what my this will tell you all the viewers and you guys, everything you need to know about me. All I can think of is like, he did it, he got to Nirvana or whatever like that idea is. And I think it's because competency is authority and authority authoritarian structures, bigot authoritarian structures, bigot authoritarian structures. So like, I watched The Last Dance too. Michael Jordan does not come across as a in a personal way, as a good person. But there is not a single basketball player who will ever be like, yeah, but we don't like him or like he has.

1:03:01 No, he has no say on the game. They're like, no, he's kind of still the king. And that's what they're going to say about Andrew, is he was formed in an authoritarian structure that made him as competent as humanly possible. And someday, if he doesn't kill himself, he will be the king of jazz drumming that some other budding musicians going to listen to. And his and his headphones, right? Just like he was like, I want to be like a bird, right? Like, I want to do it. I just think that that's so appealing depending on how your brain works. And I just when I think about this movie, I think about how hard it is for young people to see that life is more than a few moments.

1:03:52 Like at the end of the day, this movie shows Andrew sacrifice family relationships and future, you know, relational, you know, getting a wife relationships. Like he has sacrificed 2 of the primary things that our society has said. These are paths towards a well lived life, right? Having a healthy family, finding a good spouse who loves us and cares for us. Like he sacrifices all those on a on a path to greatness. And at the end of the day, we saw what might have been his greatest moment ever as a musician. And to chase those singular moments of greatness is to sacrifice a lifetime of well-being and a journey towards health and healing and all these things. And you sacrifice all that for this one moment of greatness where this demon looks on at you with a motherly love. And, like, that's freaking terrifying. Yeah.

1:04:59 Well, I keep calling it a horror movie. It's probably not an accident that this movie was produced by Blum House Pictures. I don't know if you guys saw that on the credits, but Blum House known for making low budget horror movies, they have become like the horror studio over the last 10 years. And it's partially because they just find low budget movies that they believe in and they end up being super profitable for them. But this movie cost $3.3 million to make. It made $50 million at the domestic box office. Not bad and I think watching it this time I'm so impressed with Chazelle both in like the kinetic camera work of his filmmaking in this movie, but also as a writer. And I think the the huge success of this film is that it does not spoon feed you exactly what to think about the people in this movie.

1:05:48 JK Simmons is an obvious villain. Like he is one of the most demonic and quite quite frankly like scene chewing villains in the history of villainy. However, like, you can still have that moment of Andrew did it at the end of the movie like he's on the mountaintop. And it makes me feel even ickier as an audience member that I am rooting for the demise of someone's soul in real time. And Chazelle does such a good job of allowing you to feel the tension of both of those things without telling you which is right to feel and which is wrong to feel.

1:06:28 Fred, I'm just wondering, like from a film making perspective, what were some of the techniques that you noticed this time around? Like what? What was Chazelle doing that signaled to the world that he was like a a young force to be reckoned with here? I think it's his ability to a hone in on people's faces. Like anytime a director can draw a beautiful performance out of his actors with super close-ups is always impressive to me, and it's his. I think it's his sound design, like the ability he has to give you these wildly, violently loud moments of musical expression paired with so many quiet moments throughout the film of Andrew having quiet conversations with Melissa, what's her last Benoit, I think, or with his dad put, you know, Paul Reiser.

1:07:30 I like, I think that there's just so many small moments throughout the film that allow the big moments to shine that I like. I think Chazelle is on to something here. And like I said at the start, he never allows anything to distract the camera, the sound design, the acting, the script, like nothing distracts from this manic thrust towards the finish line. There's only a few things in the movie too. If we're talking about the way the movie shot it's, it works really well because it's low budget and they do a good job of capturing like the griminess of New York City. But everything has that sickly green hue to it of neon and streetlights. And there's only a couple locations in the whole film that have a different color palette.

1:08:20 You see it really early on in the concession stand where his future and then former girlfriend works. And it's because it's like the object of Andrew's desire. It's where he feels the most sense of comfort and longing. And like, that's where he finds, for lack of a better term, like belonging. Like, he wants that girl. And then you find it in the classroom of JK Simmons. Like, there is a weird warm tone to that classroom that doesn't exist anywhere else. And then you finally get it on stage at the end of the movie when he starts his solo and the lighting changes there. And it's like a very obvious use of color. But it also does such a good job at getting into the psychology of this character and how he doesn't feel comfortable anywhere else.

1:09:07 He doesn't feel like he belongs anywhere else. He clearly doesn't want to be anywhere else than just in those few places because he is like putting all of his identity eggs in that basket. All right guys, I've I've been going on Jordan's over here falling asleep. We got to get to Jordan here. And I think in order to do that, it's time for our last segment of the day, which we call let's make it a double. We're near the end of the episode, so thanks listening to the film and Whiskey show. Let's have another film with this one, even if it's struggling. It's the final segment of the day. Now let's make it a double. Let's Make It a Double is the part of the show where we pick a movie to pair up with this one to make the perfect double feature. Jordan, I've already called you out, so we're putting you on the spot here.

1:09:54 I've given my Let's make it a Double. What would you pair Whiplash with? There are only three movies where at the end of the movie as soon as the credits roll, I have thought to myself I would really like to watch that again immediately. They are Whiplash, Inception and then the movie. I would suggest for the double feature if you want a more positive tone is La La Land. I would pick La La Land. Very similar feel. I love musicals. It'll very much get you into a better headspace. Still like a little bit depressing but far less of like the manipulation. If I can add a second since you added the last dance because this popped into my head immediately. If you want to feel just as bad or worse about excellence, I would watch FXS the Bear.

1:10:44 If you watch the Bear, it has a very similar philosophy to pursuing Exodus or excellence, pursuing excellence at the expense of yourself. And it is just as intense and it feels just as icky at times. But then there are still those moments of like, these are the greatest chefs ever and they're going to do it like they're going to nail it and it's going to be amazing. It's just a really fun way to watch it. So I would go in either of those directions, just depending on how you're. Feeling all right, Brad? The gauntlet has been thrown down. Those were some good picks. I didn't know where else to put this in Bob, but do you want to know when I knew that Andrew Neiman?

1:11:26 Neiman was like the real protagonist of the movie. I do not. It's the moment when he looked at his father and said, I don't want the Raisinets, I'll just see you around them. I was like, take that Bob, Raisinets suck. Dude raisinets are really good. The fact that you haven't even tried them to form your opinion is what's most frustrating about it. You're like they suck and I am basing that on nothing but vibes. Yes. 100% that That is what our country runs on, Bob. If I were to pair this with another film, it is going to be depressing, it is going to be manipulative, it is going to be 1 Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

1:12:14 Oh, interesting. What's your what's your reasoning there? Nurse Ratched? Oh, yeah. Good one. OK. I was thinking the Jack Nicholson route. I was like, yeah, I don't think, I don't think anybody in this movie gets lobotomized, do they? But yeah, great pick. All right, so we've got some really good explorations of the human psyche. We've got one floor of the Cuckoo's Nest. We've got The Last Dance, La La Land and the Bear for your Let's make it a double options. Let's make it a quintuple. Yeah, right. Today's Let's Make It a Double was brought to you by Blackwood Distilling Company, Kentucky's distillery specializing in toasted barrel bourbon and rye.

1:12:57 No matter what movie you pick, you can always make it a double with Blackwood Distilling Co Brad, let's get into final scores here. I like there are tiny, tiny flaws in this film. There were like maybe one or two scenes where I thought, oh, maybe they could have taken a different line reading from Miles Teller or maybe we shouldn't have had him get hit by a semi truck. But even the semi truck thing, which I thought would be a hang up for me in the context of watching it this time, I was like no, that's like the next logical step on his quest to make it to the thing on time. This is a 10 out of 10 dude. This is a perfect movie. Like you said, No 10 out of 10 movie we have ever scored that that way is actually a perfect movie because there is no such thing as a truly perfect movie.

1:13:49 But when you look at the story that this is telling, the underlying philosophy that it's examining the economy of film usage, to get this in in under an hour and 40 minutes at like, this is a hell of a movie, Bob. And it's easily a 10 out of 10 for me. Watch Jordan just come in here and be like, yeah, it's a 6 1/2 I. Don't know, I'd give it like a solid 3. No. No, it's been in my top five, top ten. I don't know whatever ranking systems we all use, but I go back to it frequently. It's one of those when you really want to get back in touch with good storytelling, you just kind of tap it on the shoulder and learn and good character development.

1:14:36 You know, there's some movies with great cinematography, great story, maybe not the best characters, but this is a very much a character driven drama that just really hits you where it counts. Wait, did you give it a score? I'd give it a 10 out of 10. Solid 10 out? Sure. I heard I heard the descriptiveness but I need a number man this this is a quantitative podcast. I don't. I don't believe in numbers. Yes. I'd give it a caravan out of Claire de Lynch. Yep. How many times have you guys like been in the shower since watching this movie though and just started being like, it's so freaking good.

1:15:20 It's like it's. I'll tell you a shameful fact is after the last time I watched this movie with Brad and some other guys, I bought an electric drum set and I have been, I'm an amateur drummer ever since because I was just like, it just makes something happen for me to be able to do it. So I I cannot play any of those riffs or anything, but it is a magical feeling. I so want to watch a cut of this movie where they just CGI in an electric drum set instead of a like a real kit. And so you just hear like, that's all you hear the whole slapping sound. Yeah. It would be a lot of slapping. There'd just be a slapping sound.

1:16:03 Guys, this has been whiplash. We want to say thank you again to our friend Jordan McCain. Jordan, don't stay away for five years next time. Man, this was wonderful. It's good to see you. You let me know, I'm always available. We always offer this other guess. Is there anything big coming down the line for you? Where can we find you, Jordan? Another another kid on the way. What's going on? I'm barely present on social media. Don't look for me. This is the most exposure I've had in a long time. Well, Brad, we are going to continue a small run of movies with one word in the title next week with the 2019 Best Picture winner. We're talking about Bong Joon Ho's Parasite, so join us for Parasite next week if you want to let us know what you think of Whiplash. By the way, you can find us on any of our social medias, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Tiktok, YouTube at Film Whiskey. Or you can join the conversation on Discord, a platform where the conversations stay private and we have an opportunity to talk about things that we all love and care about, like movies, whiskey, and almost anything else. So if you want to join the conversation, you can find a link at the end of any single one of our show notes. Join us for Parasite next week.

1:17:15 Happy Halloween, everybody, and until then, I'm Bob Book. I'm Brad G. And we'll see you next time.