West Side Story (2021) Revisited with Patrick H. Willems + Penelope Riviera Review

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In 2021, director Steven
Spielberg and star Ansel Elgort

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gave the world an adaptation of
one of the most famous musicals

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of all time.
In 2026, we try a whiskey that's

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in a category all its own.
The film is West Side Story.

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The whiskey is Penelope Riviera.
And we'll review them both.

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This is the Film and Whiskey
podcast.

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Welcome to the Film and Whiskey
podcast, where each week we

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review a classic movie and a
glass of whiskey.

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I'm Bob Book.
I'm I'm Brad G.

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And Brad G, we are shaking the
rust off a little bit today.

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This is not really an official
podcast episode.

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This is it's kind of like the
NBA play in where those stats

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don't get counted towards the
regular season or the post.

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Season or the playoffs?
Yeah.

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Yeah, so like we're kind of just
in between seasons here, you

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know, this, this weird nether
world that we're in right now, I

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feel.
Like at some point 10 years from

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now, there's going to be a
player that's like been on the

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Atlanta Hawks and they've been
in the play in tournament for 10

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years straight.
And there's going to be a stat

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on the NBA thing that was like
if his play off stats included

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the play in games.
Yeah.

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Oh yeah, he'd be outscoring
LeBron.

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Yeah, exactly, dude.
So listen, we had, we had made a

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promise to each other and to our
good friend who we will intro

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here in just a second.
That's when we were.

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Saying promise to each other.
I just imagine like the hand,

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the muscular arms, clasping
hands.

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Yeah, what movie is that from?
Predator.

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Predator.
Yeah, Predator.

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So we reviewed West Side Story a
couple months ago, a film that

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is not just near and dear to my
heart, but I think I said on the

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episode, this is a contender for
Bob Book's sight and sound list.

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And during that episode, our
front patch, Williams said,

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listen, I think the 21 version
is better.

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And I said, look, I am happy to
hear your case.

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I I hope you present your
argument and prepare it in such

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a way that it is ready for the
onslaught that faces you because

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I wholeheartedly disagree.
And yet Patrick turned up.

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Patrick is here to talk to us
about Steven Spielberg's modern

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masterpiece.
Question mark the 2021 W Side

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Story.
Patrick, how are you tonight,

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man?
Guys, I'm doing great.

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How are you?
Just doing.

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Dandy, I got to listen to the
music of Stephen Sondheim once

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more.
Like it's, It's always a good

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day.
It's glorious.

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Guys, I got, I've got takes,
I've got many takes on this

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movie and I'm prepared to hear
yours.

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But I think that where I want to
start today is somewhere that I

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don't actually think we talked
about in the last episode, which

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is what level of familiarity do
you have to the actual stage

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version of West Side Story?
Because I realized zero.

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I have never seen it staged
either.

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That is a big.
So, so Brad and I are watching

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this version, which, you know,
there's definitely been some

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adaptation by the screenwriter
Tony Kushner.

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So it's like, is he rewriting
lyrics or are these just the

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original lyrics from Broadway
reinstituted now that there

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aren't any sensors?
I can tell you about that.

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Please do please.
The changes to the lyrics are

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changes that Sondheim made in
between the original film and

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this one.
OK.

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Yeah, those those versus.
A revision from the source.

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Yes, those are are kind of like
the updated lyrics.

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Those were not change like the
the the movie makes changes to

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the book, as in like, you know,
the the non, you know, like the

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dialogue and stuff like that.
But the actual lyrical changes,

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especially in America, those
were I'm, I'm, I can't tell you

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when, but I know those were
Sondheim changes.

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Yep.
So it's basically like George

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Lucas special editions, just,
you know, little tweaks here and

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there.
I I think some of them would,

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yeah.
But I think a bunch of these

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were like feedback from actual
like Puerto Rican people to be

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like, Hey, can we change some
some of those We don't love some

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of those lyrics in in in
America.

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And he's like, you know what, I
hear you.

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And because these are being sung
by Puerto Rican characters,

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let's let's get it right.
So.

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But also it's it's really fun to
go back and watch the 4K of the

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61 version now and see where
Robert Wise inserted CGI like

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Gungans in the background of
stuff.

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That's it's a fun Easter egg.
It is, you know, for those who

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are OG.
Would Maria shout in a clunky

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that that's that's what it was
always missing?

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So I do know that even like in
the 61 version, Rita Moreno was

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like, I am not singing some of
these lyrics from the Broadway

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version for America.
And so they kind of tweaked the

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intro to that song even then.
So I'm not surprised to hear

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that Sondheim had additional,
you know, revisions to make with

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the lyrics here.
So let me just say, I'm really

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glad that all three of us who
are now super familiar with the

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film versions of West Side Story
have basically no understanding

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of the screen, this stage
version, because that allows us

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to strictly focus on the
cinematic here.

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I think we can all agree West
Side Story is perhaps the kind

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of quintessential American
musical and I think has been

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kind of canonized that way,
especially in the last few

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decades.
So we love the music, we love

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the story.
Obviously Billy Shakespeare.

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Good job on that one.
Attaboy.

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So let's talk about the movies
themselves.

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And I want to start with Brad,
because Brad, you really like

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the original.
And I think now, especially

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after doing like 400 movies,
revisiting it, you really

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appreciate the the cinematic
elements of it.

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And yet as soon as you finished
watching the Spielberg version,

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you said this is way better than
the 1961 version.

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I turn it over to you.
Make your opening arguments

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here, Brad, I think.
I, you know, we were texting

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another friend of ours, Zach,
the other day about like, how

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far we've come as movie critics,
if you could call us that.

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And one of the things I've
realized is that the more movies

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I watch, I kind of know what I
appreciate in movies.

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And there can be elements of
movies that I appreciate less

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that I can still recognize and
go, yeah, like, the lighting

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here was incredible.
But incredible lighting isn't

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going to move the needle on a
movie for me as much as a well

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crafted story that showcases a
unique element of what it means

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to be a human.
Like, that's like, my that's

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what really gets me going.
And I think that the script in

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this movie is just flat out
better.

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I think that the big drawback
for me about the original 1 and

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Bob, you and I have said this
from Season 1 when we watched

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it, anytime Tony and Maria are
on the screen together, I'm like

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ready to fall asleep.
It's not great.

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The.
Like the action?

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Is just OK The There's something
about it that falls flat for me.

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Rachel Ziegler and Ansel Elgort,
every time they're on screen

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together, I'm locked in and they
change just enough of their

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relationship.
Give it just a little bit of

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tension and it's not much.
They give both of them just a

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little more background and a
little more depth when they're

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with other characters.
I like.

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I think the The relationship
between Riff and Tony is so much

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better in this movie than it is
in the original.

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I think the relationship between
Anita and Maria so much better

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than in the original.
So I think it's like those

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elements of the characters just
being fleshed out a little bit

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that made me go like, oh, like
this is so much better than the

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original.
I don't know where you guys are

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at, but that's where I.
Was going to say I would like to

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know where Patrick lands on the
gauntlet that's been thrown

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down.
The evaluation is 2021 is much

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better than 1961.
I'm not going to go that far.

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So OK, what I believe what I
said when I was on here before

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talking about the 1961 movie.
It's 61, right?

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Yep.
Yeah, exactly 60 years between

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them.
I know.

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So I believe what I said and you
can, you feel free to, to, you

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know, check the record, pull up
the tapes and and show that I'm

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incorrect.
I think I said the Spielberg

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one, which may even be better or
kind of question mark.

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Like, I believe I brought it up
in a way where I, I think, I

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think there are a lot of
elements of the Spielberg one

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that are improvements.
And but it is also, it's hard

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for me to like it.
I'm never going to say the 2021

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film replaces the the original 1
because I think it is so in

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conversation with the original
film.

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And they do both have their own
strengths.

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And so it's one of those things
where when you ask me what is

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your favorite musical movie, I
do kind of have to cheat and say

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West Side Story like parentheses
S it's like the two of them

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together.
And because what I talked about

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in a lot in the episode about
the original film is that what

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this movie does so spectacularly
is just the combination of light

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and color and movement and
music.

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And that is its crowning
achievement to me.

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That is that it does so
magnificently.

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That is like when that movie is
cooking.

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It is utterly transcendent to
the point where I, I, I will

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easily forgive things like, oh,
yeah, the Tony Maria

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relationship is not the the most
exciting thing in the world or

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whatever.
And so, yeah, because the, the

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like there, there aren't parts
of that movie that I think are

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bad.
There's just parts that I think

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are, are OK.
And then the highs are so

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stratospherically high.
The Spielberg 1 is so

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interesting because it's a movie
that when it was announced, I

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feel like everyone went why?
Like, I, I get that you

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Spielberg making the musical
felt inevitable.

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Just look, you know, his his
mastery of of visual language

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and action scenes.
The times that he kind of

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flirted with musicals in the was
the the Lindy Hop sequence of

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1941, the opening of Indiana
Jones and the Temple of Doom.

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Like the guy can do it,
obviously.

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And it just seemed odd that
like, oh, so you're finally

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going to do a musical terrific,
but you're, you're going to

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remake a contender for the best
one ever.

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And does it need a remake?
And then, but I was like, look,

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I, I trust in Steve and I showed
up that I actually know.

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I, I, I this was, I remember
this was a funny experience.

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Wow, this is, I'm going on such
a long story.

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And you were just like, so
Patrick, do you like it or do

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you not like it?
But I, I promise this is all

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relevant.
But I remember I, I, I went to a

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press screening of it that I, as
usual, I was not invited.

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I, I, my, my friend Souvanth was
invited and I was just plus one.

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But it, the press screening we
were at was happening

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simultaneously with the world
premiere, so no one had seen the

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movie and it was embargoed.
The embargo went up I think an

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hour or so after our screening
got out.

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So I remember getting out.
So I had to.

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So no one had seen it.
There were no reactions.

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There was no buzz or anything
when I went in, which is weird

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because usually when we see
movies, we're aware of what the,

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the critical consensus is, what
people have been saying.

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So I had no idea.
And then I remember getting out

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from the movie and I had to like
to rush out like really quickly.

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So I wasn't hanging around
talking with people and friends

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were texting me like, Hey, how
was it?

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And I was like, I, I, I think
it's maybe a masterpiece, but I

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don't know what anyone else
thinks.

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I could be totally wrong.
But yeah.

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But it was the thing.
And I saw it multiple times in

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theaters.
And I have, I have revisited it

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multiple times since then.
And I do, I truly think this is

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in the upper tier of Spielberg's
movies.

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And I say that as someone who
recently for other projects has

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been like watch like just kind
of honest Spielberg kick.

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I literally paused Empire of the
Sun at the halfway point to come

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on and do this podcast.
And I think it is in the upper

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00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:59,200
tier of his filmography.
And I think what's so special

225
00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:04,040
about the movie is that it
retains so much of the the great

226
00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,800
things about the original
version.

227
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,320
It doesn't.
It doesn't change stuff just to

228
00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:16,080
just to be different.
But the way that Tony Kushner,

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00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:23,040
like, subtly updates the script,
like Brad was saying, I think

230
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,640
adds so much to the entire thing
and that.

231
00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,400
Let me interrupt you there for a
second 'cause I, I do want to

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00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,800
talk a little bit about like the
way that specifically the film

233
00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:38,040
was updated, but I don't think
iterated is the right word.

234
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:42,200
But you kind of even said it it,
it's in conversation with the 61

235
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:46,000
version in addition to the stage
play, in addition to

236
00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,200
Shakespeare, right?
So, you know, there there is a

237
00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,480
sort of self consciousness about
what Spielberg and Kushner are

238
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,600
doing here in that they know
when they have to make reference

239
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,000
to the visuals we all remember
and when they need to depart

240
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,520
from those things or when that's
a purposeful choice, I guess is

241
00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:03,800
what I should say.
And I, I guess we'll start with

242
00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,680
Kushner because it sounds like
both of you guys are like really

243
00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:08,960
on board with the script here
and the changes.

244
00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,520
That we made Bob.
You haven't told us your take on

245
00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:15,320
the movie.
That's very observant, Patrick.

246
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,200
Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm
trying to be the impartial host

247
00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:24,000
here.
I'll say this guys, I I think

248
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:29,200
that everything prior to the
rumble swings wildly between

249
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:31,800
this is brilliant.
And like, this was a choice that

250
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,200
doesn't work for me.
Like and it and it will change

251
00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,680
from scene to scene.
And it that encompasses

252
00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:40,440
everything from like some of the
writing choices to we'll talk

253
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,480
about Kaminsky.
I think some of like the, the

254
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,680
color grading and lighting
choices in this movie, like just

255
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:49,920
really, really irk me.
Yeah, whatever, Patrick.

256
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:57,120
I see your face once it clicks
into the rumble is like, OK.

257
00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,680
And and and I think maybe it's
it feels to me almost like in

258
00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:04,880
watching it in sequence, like
Spielberg kind of takes a

259
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:09,120
breather, takes a break from the
music for a minute and makes

260
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:15,560
like a grown up kind of
terrifying movie for 15 minutes.

261
00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,880
And then The thing is just sings
after that like it is off to the

262
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:20,720
races.
And I think, you know, part of

263
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,760
that is the way that that the
script and the, you know, the

264
00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,080
origin story hurdles towards its
climax.

265
00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,120
But I think that Spielberg
really gets a handle on the

266
00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,040
material in that back, you know,
half and we.

267
00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:36,400
Talked about when we did our
episode about the 61 film, how

268
00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:42,280
as great as it is after the
rumble, it's it it it loses some

269
00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:45,520
energy and is never as good
because that's the point when

270
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:52,600
you don't have the banger songs
and it really is about Tony and

271
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,840
Maria, which is the least
compelling part of the movie.

272
00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:01,600
Yeah, I was bracing myself for
AI think this movie is bad and

273
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,560
an utter failure at which I was
I was like, come on, I I was

274
00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:09,480
getting worried, but I but no, I
I I think this is this is an

275
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,760
interesting and totally valid
take and I'm really curious to

276
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:18,359
to hear more about your take for
the like the the back stretch of

277
00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,160
the film.
Yeah.

278
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:21,760
Well, let's get into it a little
bit.

279
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,359
And and like I said, let's start
with Kushner here, because I

280
00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,800
think that there are choices
made both in the front part of

281
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,480
the movie and in the back part
of the movie.

282
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,360
And there are things that I want
to get on the table and

283
00:17:32,360 --> 00:17:37,640
acknowledge are I just think
flaws with West Side Story and

284
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:44,160
potentially Romeo and Juliet in
terms of like dramatic, like

285
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:48,840
like where you pull the dramatic
momentum and the rug gets pulled

286
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,080
out from under that.
So like in both versions, you

287
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:56,080
have the rumble, you have
someone dead, you're like, Oh

288
00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:00,120
shit, everything just got real.
And then it's like, let's do I

289
00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:03,080
feel pretty right now, Like
let's let's just take a take a

290
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:07,080
deep breath and do I feel which
is first of all, a lovely song

291
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,720
and a a complete ear worm.
I know Sondheim didn't like the

292
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,440
lyrics that he wrote for it and
and really regretted it later in

293
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,680
life.
But also, like, I think the the

294
00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:18,760
point I'm trying to make here is
like, no matter what Tony

295
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,640
Kushner and Steven Spielberg did
with that smash, cutting to I

296
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:26,200
feel pretty is never going to be
a great decision.

297
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:30,080
I'm sorry, I need to go back
like 3 minutes.

298
00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:35,800
Not only did you just throw four
time Oscar award-winning Tony

299
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:43,400
Kushner under the bus, you also
you also ran over William Effing

300
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:45,720
Shakespeare with what with that
saying is.

301
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,720
To I realized after I said it
that William Shakespeare did not

302
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:53,440
in fact, smash cut to I feel
pretty in his play, so I will

303
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,320
retract that bit of my argument.
Read it again.

304
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,560
I I feel pretty in iambic
pentameter would be wonderful

305
00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,880
though, that's all I.
I do understand the argument

306
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,400
against the placement of.
I feel pretty.

307
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:18,240
I think the the purpose of it
has always been, and you know,

308
00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:20,360
this is its purpose.
You you might just think its

309
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,640
purpose doesn't work, which is
totally fair.

310
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:30,240
But it is I feel pretty, which
could just be a sort of like

311
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,880
nice throwaway little song
suddenly is now laced with all

312
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,320
of this dramatic irony that like
for sure, man, she is, she is

313
00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:41,400
she is a feeling on top of the
world.

314
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:45,880
Because then immediately after
that, that that song Chino shows

315
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,840
up and delivers this news.
So she goes from like her

316
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,080
highest high to her absolute
lowest point.

317
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,240
And, and, and that's what, and
it's the thing where like,

318
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,200
that's what I think is, is
that's what I like about having

319
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,680
the song there, because you're
getting into the song, but

320
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,720
you're just like, oh.
Oh, oh Maria, oh you, you have,

321
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,440
you have no idea.
Oh oh, you're not going to feel

322
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,240
very pretty in like 5.
Minutes.

323
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,200
Yeah, it's a real oh honey kind
of moment for her, for sure.

324
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,400
It it feels like something
Tarantino would do to one of his

325
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,720
characters like.
It feels.

326
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,920
Like, like, granted, if this is
a Tarantino movie, Chino would

327
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,400
show up and actually shoot
Maria, right?

328
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:29,280
But it feels like that level of
tension between what you're

329
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,000
seeing on the screen and what
you know as a viewer.

330
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,600
I like, I freaking love the
placement of the song, where

331
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,560
it's at in the film.
I will say in terms of that back

332
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,600
half, I think, and I I believe
this, this change actually

333
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:50,000
originated in some versions of
the the stage show, because

334
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,360
again, you know, like any
Broadway show from back then,

335
00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:55,080
it's been revived multiple
times.

336
00:20:55,080 --> 00:21:01,520
Every revival has changes.
I think one of the best cool

337
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:08,280
cool moving, moving cool to pre
rumble and also having cool be

338
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:13,560
Tony and riff, not action and
the other guys.

339
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,680
I and and also, of course, just
like the staging of cool.

340
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:23,360
I I think is pretty spectacular,
But but also that is moving cool

341
00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:28,680
also shortens that like the the
the last stretch of the movie

342
00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:32,600
and and and it's just I think it
works so much better in this

343
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:33,760
version.
And and here's the thing.

344
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:35,000
And I know.
It's funny too, because.

345
00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:38,520
Like, I like the song cool, but
it's it's just like there,

346
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:39,960
there's no competition.
Yeah.

347
00:21:40,360 --> 00:21:42,880
I think that like the I I kind
of break all the changes up in

348
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,360
my mind and like changes that I
definitely think are

349
00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:48,240
improvements, changes that I'm
neutral about, changes that I

350
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,920
don't like and cool falls in the
middle camp for me.

351
00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:56,040
But I think that might actually
be like the best thing I can say

352
00:21:56,040 --> 00:22:00,000
about it because I I went to bat
for cool in our last episode.

353
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,640
I think that like it's probably
the thing that gets laughed at

354
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,560
the most when you show that
movie in like high school to to,

355
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,120
you know, they're like, Oh, this
is really dumb.

356
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,920
But when you can get on its
wavelength and see the way that

357
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:18,440
those kids are like literally
exploding inside having seen one

358
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,320
of their own just get murdered,
I love the and I love that it's

359
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,800
in that parking garage and you
get the bright lights and it's,

360
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,640
it's just, it's staged so well.
And so to move it pre rumble,

361
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,200
like you said, it's now between
Tony and Riff.

362
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,640
And so you get that great moment
at the end where instead of like

363
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:37,320
a direct address to camera where
they're all saying pow at the

364
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:44,200
audience in the 61 version, you
now get Riff saying pow at Tony,

365
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:46,640
which is just a you're dead to
me.

366
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:48,640
And it is like, it's
heartbreaking.

367
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,560
It cut back to Tony.
There's a tear going down his

368
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,880
face.
Like it's there's so much more

369
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,800
emotional resonance between
those two characters now.

370
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,680
And Brad, you even mentioned
this, like the relationship

371
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:03,160
between Tony and Riff in this
one is so much more fleshed out.

372
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,720
And, and I don't think that
that's a reflection for me

373
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:07,520
necessarily.
You know, I tried to go through

374
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:12,480
my mind who's better in their
role between the 61 and and 21.

375
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,160
And we'll get to the cast.
I love Russ Tamblyn in the

376
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:20,320
original, and I don't think that
I can hold it against him that,

377
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,840
you know, Mike Feist got way
meatier dialogue in this

378
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,400
version, right?
Like, they're both excellent for

379
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,720
for what they're supposed to be.
I will say at this juncture, I'm

380
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,360
still pissed off that Mike Feist
didn't get nominated for this.

381
00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:36,480
Because it's like, you watch a
movie like this and you watch

382
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,360
that role and you say like,
that's a star, that dude's going

383
00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:42,400
to be a *.
And he completely, even in like

384
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,400
the opening ballet, you know,
down the street, this is like a

385
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,400
very wide canvas, the cameras
constantly moving and your eyes

386
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,440
are locked on Mike Feist.
Like, he's just so good in this

387
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:58,120
movie, you guys.
And thankfully, you know, even

388
00:23:58,120 --> 00:24:00,920
though he didn't get the Oscar
nomination, he still got

389
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:05,360
challengers after this.
As as opposed to poor Ariana

390
00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:09,320
Dubose, who is great in this
movie, won an Oscar and then has

391
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,840
not been in a single good movie
since.

392
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,800
No, it's like she's.
A fun thing now is Angela

393
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,480
Bassett does the thing right.
That's like, that's what she's

394
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:20,880
known for.
Right.

395
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:26,320
It, it's, it is like her post
West Side Story career is rough.

396
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:31,680
But like, this was the the thing
of with, with this movie of

397
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,640
obviously it's introducing
Rachel's Rachel Zeigler.

398
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,640
She was like the this is her
first film.

399
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,800
She was a total unknown.
But there are a bunch of like

400
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:47,080
really exciting finds in this.
And like Mike Feist, he he, he

401
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:51,120
walks out of that like, you
know, construction machine where

402
00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:52,880
he's just like making out with
his girlfriend.

403
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,000
And it's just like, you know,
this guy is a star.

404
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:56,080
Yeah.
Yeah.

405
00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,360
That's all he was doing, making
out, just making making out with

406
00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:04,160
his girlfriend.
I don't see him pulling up his

407
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:05,840
pants.
No.

408
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:08,480
This is a PG13 movie if you
didn't.

409
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,560
See it?
It definitely didn't happen.

410
00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:14,000
That's all I'm saying.
Brad and Patrick, I want to

411
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,560
continue down this thread of
like structural changes for the

412
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,480
better in this movie or for the
worse.

413
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,200
Like what were some changes that
you noticed specifically that

414
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:30,520
that stood out to you?
I loved the usage of Rita Moreno

415
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:36,880
as a married to the original
doc, but now she's the doc

416
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,200
running the store.
I love that change.

417
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,880
I like it gave it a little more
depth.

418
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:46,280
And once again, it gave Tony as
a character a little more depth

419
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,320
for the motherly role that she
has in his life.

420
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:54,440
And like the little moments of
her teaching him Spanish because

421
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,320
he's so head over heels puppy in
love with Maria.

422
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:03,440
That little moment is like, OK,
like this is the logic behind it

423
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,240
that happens without us thinking
about it.

424
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:10,880
It's like, OK, if this is his
mom and she believes that he's

425
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,440
in love with Maria enough that
she's going to help him get her,

426
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:19,440
then I can believe that their
relationship is for real.

427
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,440
Yeah.
And so it's like little things

428
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:26,160
like that, that I, I really
found myself believing the whole

429
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:30,000
premise of the entire story so
much more than the original 1,

430
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,280
but that, that one.
That's also like way it's way

431
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,720
closer to the role of the
apothecary in Romeo and Juliet.

432
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,240
Yes, right.
Like the apothecary helps them

433
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,680
out and then also makes the
poison for them, right?

434
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,600
Like so, because in the
original, like Doc, at every

435
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,680
juncture is like, I don't
understand you kids.

436
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:50,960
Get out of my candy.
Shop the whole time basically

437
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,440
isn't like a person.
Yeah.

438
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,000
Like he just he's he's the old
guy who owns the place where

439
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,000
they hang out.
And and yeah, it's one of those

440
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,000
things where, you know, I when
they announced that Rita Moreno

441
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,840
would be in this movie, it feels
like like a lot of times in like

442
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,160
whether you know, it's a remake
or whatever, they're like, oh,

443
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,200
right.
We'll give an original cast

444
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,040
number, like a little roll.
They'll have a cameo.

445
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,960
So you can all you can do the
Leo point the screen and be

446
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:23,320
like, oh, there they are.
And then then making her a real

447
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:28,320
character who I think deepens so
many things about the story

448
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,520
where first of all, like, you
know, the the doc figure is now

449
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,880
an actual human being who even
gets a song.

450
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,960
But but suddenly just like the
fact that like she's Puerto

451
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:39,920
Rican and was married to a white
man.

452
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:44,480
And so she has experienced what
Tony's experiencing.

453
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,360
And Tony can look to her to be
like, hey, see, see, this can

454
00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:50,680
work out.
It worked out with you.

455
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:56,120
And, you know, so much work, I
think very suddenly is, is done

456
00:27:56,120 --> 00:27:58,400
to make Tony a way more
interesting character, whether

457
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,400
it's the fact that, you know, he
was in prison because he almost

458
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,800
killed a guy in a fight.
Just, you know, like, even even

459
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,520
just like the stuff with like
with him and Riff and like the

460
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,320
like, you know, birth to earth,
sperm to worm the thing.

461
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,400
It's like, oh, right, this feels
like a friendship that they

462
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,520
have.
And, and again, this is what I

463
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,800
think is so smart about
Kushner's script, where it's not

464
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,920
like a radical rewrite.
It's it's almost like a really,

465
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,680
really smart Polish that just
basically goes through.

466
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,080
And it's like, let's deepen
every character.

467
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,400
Like, let's make anybody's like
an actual character who's now

468
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,160
like, explicitly like a trans
woman or sorry, trans man.

469
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,120
You know, like, like there in
the script, rather than just

470
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,160
kind of like the annoying tomboy
who shows up every so often and

471
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,160
yells a little bit and then runs
away.

472
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,480
Yeah, no, 100%.
And I, I don't want to gloss

473
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:54,040
over the fact that they have the
doc character Rita Moreno

474
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,440
singing the song somewhere and
nobody else.

475
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:01,320
It's like it's just a solo for
her and it's so much more

476
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,960
touching.
And I think to our recurring

477
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,960
theme here, it speeds up the end
of the movie a little bit.

478
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,760
So because you don't have the
awkwardness of hey, I killed

479
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,640
your brother, let's have sex and
then sing a song about it.

480
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,640
Like it, it's there's still the
the fundamental flaw of like,

481
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,200
hey, I killed your brother,
let's have sex.

482
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:20,800
But we kind of cut away from
that.

483
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,200
But at least we can have Rita
Moreno singing.

484
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,640
Yeah, it's I just think that it
it really does help that back

485
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,280
half of the movie.
And you know, you, you mentioned

486
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,880
the oh, how does it start the
sperm to worm line?

487
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,480
Birth to.
Earth womb to tomb, womb to tomb

488
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,880
to sperm to worm.
Yeah, they bring that back in

489
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,320
tonight where in the original,
you know, they're they're

490
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,360
walking down the street and
he's, I think he's talking to

491
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,960
Arab and they're just counting
out how they're going to punch

492
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,760
the guy and he goes 123.
Well, and in this one you have

493
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:58,080
Mike Feist asking a different
person, womb to tomb question

494
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:02,320
mark and then sperm to worm is
like the response because he's

495
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,880
just told Tony like you're dead
to me.

496
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:10,360
And it really it, it continually
deepens like the tragedy of Riff

497
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,880
as a character that he is like
so desperate for that connection

498
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,760
and to feel like there is
someone who understands him and

499
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,320
will go with him to the end of
the line that he'll just like

500
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,240
dangle that out in front of
whoever else is in his vicinity

501
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,640
at that moment.
I just, I think little subtle

502
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,560
things like that are, if not
necessarily improvements, are

503
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,640
just like they are earned
moments for me.

504
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,600
Yeah.
Well, it's what I think all of

505
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:42,360
these feed into is that the, you
know, while these are both, you

506
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:49,680
know, big extravagant musicals
and also, and obviously the the

507
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,600
original 1 was it was a big deal
because it was like the first,

508
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:58,640
not the first first, but it was,
it was rare for for for musicals

509
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,080
to be shot on location.
And this was actually doing like

510
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:06,560
location filming in New York.
But the original is so stylized.

511
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:11,920
It is it is big bold colours.
It is it it it does not feel

512
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:16,640
like it really exists in in real
New York as much as they have

513
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,840
like the aerial helicopter
photography at the beginning

514
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:24,440
going over New York as much as
especially the prologue, what is

515
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,120
largely child and location.
It does not like it.

516
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,120
It feels like kind of like a
fantastical universe, New York

517
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:39,360
and I, the 2021 film is so much
more rooted in the actual

518
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:43,080
reality of real New York of that
specific era, right from the

519
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:47,840
very from the first shot, which
I think is is so incredible of

520
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,880
especially being, you know,
someone who lives in New York

521
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,120
when they show the sign of being
like Lincoln Center coming soon.

522
00:31:55,120 --> 00:32:00,000
And that's like I, I have, you
know, truly, I saw this movie in

523
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,280
theaters 2 blocks north of that.
Like I've walked past that a

524
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,680
million times.
And so being like, this is where

525
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,680
this is and, and like this is,
this is a real place.

526
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:17,640
And, and, and it just, it does
feel like, you know, again, it,

527
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,720
it's, it's lit there in a very
glossy, colorful way, but it

528
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,040
feels like more like an actual
cohesive reality populated by

529
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:29,440
real human beings in a way that
the original 1 wasn't even

530
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,040
really trying to do.
But that to me is, is the

531
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:34,640
biggest difference.
Like there, there is actually

532
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,760
like a community here.
There are people on the street

533
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:43,000
there that like the Puerto Rican
characters have a like a culture

534
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:47,120
here.
And, and, and so and yeah, and,

535
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,480
and just all these little
changes to make this feel like

536
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,640
a, a believable world populated
by human beings.

537
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:58,200
I think is is so effective and
really adds so much power to

538
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,400
this version.
Yeah, even the way that, I mean,

539
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,880
I, you know, I lived in
Philadelphia for a while and

540
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:08,360
there is an element of like you
crossover a certain St. and all

541
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,040
of a sudden you're like, things
are different here.

542
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,600
Like there's a different
population of people that live

543
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,720
past this street than the ones
that lived previous to it.

544
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,600
And you see that like when The
Jets first crossover and they're

545
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,720
going to paint on the Puerto
Rican flag.

546
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,360
Like you feel that as they move
in and it feels real and

547
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,320
populated.
Patrick, I think what you're

548
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:33,840
talking about for me, I texted
Bob at some point and I was

549
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:39,160
like, I think that the 1961
version feels like a musical.

550
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,920
The 2021 version feels like a
movie.

551
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,880
And I don't know quite how to
fully say it more than that

552
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,520
other than it's like the first
one feels like it's on a sound

553
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:59,800
stage and it feels like it is
it's contained and bright and

554
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,520
vibrant and all these things.
This one felt like a, a lived in

555
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,720
world that feels more like a
film.

556
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,040
And I and that just man, it got
me this time.

557
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:14,000
Now, Bob, I think it's time.
Are you ready?

558
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:16,320
I'm ready.
Let's do it.

559
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:21,840
I because I perked up Patrick
when I heard you say that you

560
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:28,000
have been going on a Spielberg
experience, an extravaganza of

561
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,360
enjoying everything he has to
offer us.

562
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:38,360
Bob has a very hot take about
Yanis Kaminsky and I Bob, I,

563
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,199
I'll give you the floor because
I, I'm not going to try to say

564
00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:46,159
it for you, but I really want to
hear Patrick's thoughts on this.

565
00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:47,760
I've been dying to hear it.
All right.

566
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:56,000
Now I will say apparently I am
not alone in this take on Janusz

567
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,040
Kaminsky because there was like
a very small vocal minority of

568
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,640
people on Twitter a couple
months ago that were like, I

569
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,600
don't vibe with Janusz and then
got pilloried.

570
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,960
So I cut my mouth shut, but but
I stand with them silently.

571
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:19,880
So I think that the majority of
Spielberg's films post like AI

572
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,480
or especially post Minority
Report, when you really started

573
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:29,600
to see Janusz bring in those
like heavily diffused lights and

574
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,080
integrate the lens flares in
ways that he hadn't prior to

575
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,560
that.
And then especially like, I know

576
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:37,880
Patrick, you corrected me on the
last episode that was like,

577
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,200
Spielberg only has Kaminski's
shoot on film.

578
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:44,280
Like that's it's not digital,
but I mean, I would I, I'm

579
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,680
assuming that we're at least
using like digital color grading

580
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:49,240
and things like that on these
films now.

581
00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:55,080
So like I there's something
about the way that 2010's

582
00:35:55,360 --> 00:36:01,360
Spielberg into 2020 Spielberg is
shot and graded that it gives

583
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:07,240
everything such a plastic look
that like there's a milkiness to

584
00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:10,920
the lights and you know, like
there's no such thing as like a

585
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,000
pure white, like it's always
tinted, especially in this

586
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,480
movie.
There's like tons of Blues, tons

587
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,920
of green filters on everything.
And, and ironically, I think

588
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:21,880
towards the end of the film,
it's like filtered less.

589
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,680
You actually get much more
natural tones on people's skin,

590
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,200
but it's dark outside so you
don't notice it as much.

591
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:28,880
But.
It it.

592
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,440
Pulled me out of the movie and I
remember it in the theater.

593
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,520
It was during the America
number, which they've updated

594
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,040
now to happen during broad
daylight, not at night time, you

595
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,600
know, which again, we'll talk
about some of these purposeful

596
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:45,080
changes that I don't think work.
And I just remember like I

597
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,920
looked at the background kind of
like behind the sets and I'm

598
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,600
like, I think some of those
buildings off in the background

599
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,040
are CGII can't know for sure,
but I think there's some CGI at

600
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:59,280
play here.
And it was, it was seamless in

601
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:04,720
the way that like a lot of
modern ILM stuff is kind of

602
00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:09,920
seamless where like I think ILM
stuff just doesn't stack up the

603
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:14,000
way it used to.
And so it, it seemed to me like

604
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,200
what we had actually created
wasn't a seamless blend of like

605
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,600
well done CGI and live action
stuff in front of it.

606
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,160
It ended up having the effect of
like everything kind of looks

607
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,760
computer animated to me.
Everybody's skin looks a little

608
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,520
bit too plastic.
Everything is a little bit too

609
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,320
Milky for me.
And it's an issue that I've had

610
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,280
with Spielberg for years and
years and years.

611
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:41,080
And I think this movie is one of
my, I guess least favorite

612
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:46,160
examples of that.
And so I like, and it may also

613
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:51,320
be just because I'm so partial
to the look of the original that

614
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,640
there are elements of this one
where I'm like, I, I know that

615
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:59,040
you're trying to be different.
It just doesn't, and it's

616
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,920
sludge.
By far my biggest detraction

617
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,600
from the film.
Sludge was the word he used to

618
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:07,840
describe this.
There's some sludginess there

619
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:13,240
is.
So Bob, you are bringing up the

620
00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:18,080
America sequence as your example
of this.

621
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,160
Well, and I, I bring it up
especially because that is

622
00:38:21,240 --> 00:38:25,920
purposely the most vibrant
number in the movie.

623
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,640
And so like, if that is like the
apex of where we're going with

624
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,520
how we're rendering colors and
kind of like the crispness of

625
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,200
things and everything else
besides that is a more muted

626
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,560
version of that.
Then like I, I bring up America

627
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,400
because it's like, if that's the
most heightened we're getting

628
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,040
with our, our colors and
saturation and things like that,

629
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,040
you know, let's compare that to
the original.

630
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,240
I just wish I had a bowl of
popcorn right now to watch

631
00:38:49,240 --> 00:38:56,960
Patrick.
This is May I ask how did you

632
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,920
watch the movie?
What do you mean?

633
00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:01,480
Oh, like I watched it on
Blu-ray.

634
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:02,960
I.
Thought.

635
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,480
I thought you were going to say,
may I ask how many films have

636
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,720
you colour graded Bob?
Yeah, right.

637
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,480
Well, that's part part of why I
wanted to bring this up with

638
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,320
Patrick is that like I am
obviously not a film maker and I

639
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,880
don't have a lot of the
technical terminology for this.

640
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,440
And so even yesterday, I'm like,
who out there is like me and and

641
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:24,440
has this complaint about Janusz
Kaminsky.

642
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,760
And I'm like Googling like I
hate Janusz Kaminsky just to see

643
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,480
like what comes up.
And I don't hate the guy.

644
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,400
I think especially like
Schindler's List is amazing.

645
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,480
Saving Private Ryan.
No other cinematographer could

646
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:36,760
have made that movie look like
that.

647
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,680
But it's it's really this 21st
century Kaminsky stuff.

648
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:45,360
So, and I kept seeing this
complaint of like, it was Milky,

649
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,480
comma desaturated color.
And I'm like, Milky is the word

650
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,120
I've been looking for.
There's like this weird

651
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:56,280
creaminess to everybody's skin
tones that it, it just, it loses

652
00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:00,960
definition and it looks a little
smudgy and it it has the effect

653
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,440
of making everything look
artificial to me.

654
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,840
OK, so I'm.
About to get schooled.

655
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:15,920
I can see it in this man's face.
I OK Kaminsky has shot every

656
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,800
Spielberg movie from night from
93 onward.

657
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:25,600
There are different eras of
Kaminsky. 90s Kaminsky, of which

658
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,760
there's only a handful of
movies, does not look like

659
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:33,600
current Kaminsky.
There is then the early 2000s

660
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:39,280
Kaminsky era where you've got
where especially the diffusion

661
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:45,000
filters really come out like
like he isn't he's going really

662
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,640
strong on especially look, I
just saw a 35 millimetre print

663
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:54,720
of minority Report last Saturday
and Minority Report AI is where

664
00:40:54,720 --> 00:40:59,720
he's real as when those movies
are just fucking glowing in a

665
00:40:59,720 --> 00:41:06,240
way that like the they're they
are really strong looks that I

666
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:10,160
and that I really like a lot.
And and then you've got you got

667
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:14,840
some of this into though, right
there.

668
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:16,440
Those two are kind of their own
thing.

669
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:20,960
But then you still like got
especially like Munich War of

670
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,760
the Worlds in 2005.
He is getting more desaturated

671
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,760
there.
But still, you know, it's look,

672
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:36,360
even even before Yanish, Steve
loved backlighting everything

673
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:38,920
again.
I have Empire of the Sun paused

674
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:45,000
in my living room, shot by Alan
Daviao, who also shot ETI and

675
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:49,360
and look, it's just again,
people in rooms with light

676
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:53,440
pouring in through the windows.
That's how Spielberg has always

677
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:57,320
liked to shoot things.
But Kaminsky gets he he gets

678
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,320
glowier than than anyone had
before.

679
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:07,400
And then you do get into the the
20 tens where it does feel like

680
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:11,880
the the movie is do get grayer
and they are moving a more

681
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,120
desaturated.
It's also an era where we should

682
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:19,920
point out Spielberg is making a
lot of like drama period pieces.

683
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:24,400
You know, it's like Lincoln and
Bridge of Spies and stuff like

684
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:25,560
that.
You know, movies where it's

685
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:29,680
like, oh, it's like the Civil
War are like Berlin during the

686
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:31,640
Cold War and stuff like that
where it's like, Oh yeah,

687
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:35,200
Honestly, being kind of Gray
does sort of make sense.

688
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,520
And I am are like, you know, the
Post.

689
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:40,880
And here's the thing.
I like the way all those movies

690
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,560
look.
I completely understand not

691
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:50,760
vibing with the 20 tens era of
Kaminsky Spielberg, because it

692
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,200
is obviously it's they're all
shot on film.

693
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:56,560
The only exception is the BFG is
the only Spielberg movie shot

694
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,800
digitally because I think they
had to just because so much of

695
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,840
the movie is animated right.
And I believe even ready player

696
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:09,640
1 the like real world sequences
are shot on film and but I get

697
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:11,760
not clicking with those.
But like they're shot on film,

698
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,040
but it's still very high speed
film.

699
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,360
So it like you, you you barely
see film grain, but it's still

700
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,760
all shot on film.
I get not being into that.

701
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,520
I I have always felt and even
noticed among people I've I I've

702
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:33,440
spoken with is just anecdotal
that even Kaminsky haters have

703
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,880
to give it up for West Side
Story being like, you know what?

704
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:42,520
This is an exception.
Yanish just brought it so

705
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:48,120
fucking hard on this film that
that I'll like, I'll give him

706
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:52,720
this one.
And genuinely, I think this is

707
00:43:53,720 --> 00:43:59,480
like for me, the the like of of
the the the Jonner Spielberg

708
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:05,080
collaboration.
It's like for me, it's like AI

709
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:11,360
Minority Report, Schindler and
this if we need if we need a 5

710
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:17,440
Munich also.
I've, I've and I'm, I'm making a

711
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,960
video about the, about the
filmmaking in Munich soon.

712
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,360
And so I I'm going to be talking
a lot more about that movie.

713
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,880
But so here's the thing here,
Bob, here's why your take is

714
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:32,120
psychotic to me.
Yeah, I love it because you're

715
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:38,320
talking about it being Milky.
We are living in an era that is

716
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:41,440
while there are still plenty of
great looking movies made every

717
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:47,040
year, we are living in an
absolute low point of visual

718
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,720
quality of like cinematography
in cinema.

719
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,000
Because look plenty of great
movies that are shot digitally.

720
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:58,680
But the, I think the, the
average level of like visual

721
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:02,600
quality of talking purely
aesthetics of, of average movies

722
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:08,080
has really plummeted.
And and because just so just

723
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:12,040
whether it's like flat color
grading, especially terrible

724
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:16,880
looking exterior day scenes.
It is just like so many movies

725
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:21,800
just look like trash and it
drives me insane.

726
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,920
And here's the thing.
A movie that I I I really like

727
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,040
that I think is quite good that
came out the same year as West

728
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:31,640
Side Story and was shot in the
same neighborhood is John M

729
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,280
Chews in the Heights.
I think I think a very good

730
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:39,760
movie.
You put these two movies side by

731
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:41,240
side in terms of like how they
look.

732
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,000
And it's like, yeah, that is
that is a that is a movie that

733
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,840
is very grey and very flat and
has some some good visuals in

734
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,760
there.
But like, but but truly it's

735
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:53,920
just like there is a lack of
contrast and a lack of

736
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,720
definition to so much of it.
And and obviously it gets way

737
00:45:56,720 --> 00:46:02,800
worse and wicked.
But West Side Story has such

738
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:08,040
contrast and, and the, the
images are so rich and so

739
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:12,760
vibrant and America is just
like, again, America is 1 where

740
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:16,640
what I talked about when I was
on the last time where I am like

741
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:22,320
almost tearing up just because
of like the like the, the power

742
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:26,560
of the, the movement and the
color and the music on on screen

743
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:30,040
with when there's that shot near
the end of the sequence when

744
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:34,560
like everyone like rushes by the
camera and, and then, and then

745
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,360
it cranes up and like, the like
the color of Anita's yellow

746
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:43,360
dress with like the red under
like like lining to it is so

747
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:47,360
like those are colors that we
don't see in movies anymore.

748
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:49,920
And the for instance.
And The thing is, there are

749
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,480
parts of West Side Story like
the prologue that are very Gray

750
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:57,640
and very desaturated.
And those, and I think there

751
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:02,680
that is used so deliberately
where it's like, or, or like in

752
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:06,960
Jet Song, where it's like, this
is the rubble of this

753
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,360
neighborhood.
This place is being levelled to

754
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:14,200
being built up into a fancy like
Art Center for like for rich

755
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:18,120
people.
And these losers are fighting

756
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:22,520
over piles of of like, you know,
of, of rubble.

757
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:27,000
This is like, like this is what
this is like a like a burnt out

758
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:31,680
like war zone basically.
And then there are sequences

759
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:37,600
like like the dance at the gym
or America or, or any scene in

760
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:42,800
Maria and Anita's apartment with
all of you know, like the, the

761
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,080
fabrics and sheets hang there
that are so colorful.

762
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,520
And these people have like,
really rich lives that with

763
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:52,800
like, you know, actual, like,
like passion and excitement and

764
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,480
love there.
And And so I think colour is

765
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,760
deployed so smartly in this
movie.

766
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:02,760
I think this is like a
staggering work of visual

767
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:04,600
storytelling and of
cinematography.

768
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:06,680
And I think I think this is one
of the best looking movies ever

769
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:10,440
made.
And so, so, yeah, so, so

770
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:15,800
disagree.
So equating this to like it is

771
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:20,320
just so outrageously beautiful
and and and so equating this to

772
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:25,320
like, I don't know, some like
fucking Netflix movie with with

773
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:28,120
just like shitty streaming
cinematography.

774
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,400
But you're when you're saying,
oh, it's Milky and and doesn't

775
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:33,040
look good.
I'm like, well that's how a

776
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,720
sludge again.
I just watched first of all, 20.

777
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,200
One you said sludge.
But last night I watched the

778
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:42,920
2021 Mortal Kombat movie and
that is Sludge.

779
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:45,640
Yeah, well, like, first of all,
I'm not going to argue sludge

780
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:47,560
with Patrick.
He made a whole video, like

781
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:49,640
specifically about Marvel
sludge.

782
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:53,000
So like, no.
Like I built my career on

783
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:57,160
talking about shitty,
desaturated, bland

784
00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:01,280
cinematography.
West Side Story is the cure that

785
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:06,000
that was like that when I saw
this in theaters, I'm like the

786
00:49:06,240 --> 00:49:10,160
like, I, I felt like I was
breathing oxygen for the first

787
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:12,600
time in a year.
I'm like, God damn it, like

788
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:17,480
movies can look like this.
And so all I'm saying is, Bob,

789
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:21,120
you, you are not appreciating
beautiful things.

790
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:24,600
And it sounds like you, you have
a, a really sad life.

791
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:26,000
And I'm, I'm just sorry for you
now.

792
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:28,960
You know, the The funny thing
too is like this is one of those

793
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:32,880
areas where I'm like, I also
know that Patrick can talk

794
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:36,640
technically about this in a way
that I cannot, But like I have a

795
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:40,480
very strong opinion about it.
And I think that like there are

796
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:44,880
still moments in this movie
where like, I will never argue

797
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,200
that Janusz is not a master of
his craft, right?

798
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,480
Like the compositions in this
movie.

799
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:56,640
You know, I I love the look of
the 61 Maria song where it's

800
00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:02,960
like these insane over saturated
neon lights on Tony as he goes

801
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:05,840
down the street in with the rear
projection behind him.

802
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:09,800
And then you get this burst of
the like green, almost like

803
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,280
stained glass that he comes
across.

804
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:15,760
And you get a moment like that
in this one where he walks into

805
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:18,560
the puddle.
And if you it's, it's.

806
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:20,920
So.
Subtle because it's supposed to

807
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,640
represent like the ripples of
the water.

808
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,840
But if you look really closely,
there's actually a rig above

809
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:29,400
that shot that's like gently
rotating.

810
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:31,760
And it's like, oh, dude,
Giannis, you got that one right.

811
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:35,320
Like there's moments, I think.
Towards the end, the the puddle

812
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:42,040
shot as it like a, a staggering
like the, the, the, the, the

813
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:45,680
scene when they're at the
cloisters with like the, the

814
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:49,800
light and the colours coming in
through the stained glass and

815
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:51,400
like changing colour on their
faces.

816
00:50:51,720 --> 00:50:58,120
Like this is this is stuff that
we do not see in movies anymore.

817
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:00,840
I think there there have been
moments where I've shared an

818
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:04,200
opinion and like Brad has said
something that like cut me to

819
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:06,640
the core and it's been like
really hurtful.

820
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:12,320
And I feel like you probably
took me down harder than Brad

821
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,040
ever did.
But I don't feel like I just

822
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:18,080
feel so convinced of my own
rightness about this topic that

823
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:19,520
I'm like, that's fine.
Like I.

824
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,120
Here's the things of opinion.
What we are discussing right

825
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:24,880
here is pretty much like
aesthetic taste.

826
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:30,600
And so this is not even like,
again, there's no right or

827
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:34,440
wrong, but this isn't even like,
it's a storytelling thing that

828
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,760
will like, that's easier to
argue about.

829
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:43,960
Like is like, it's easier to
like, like, you know, like argue

830
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:45,640
or like change your mind about
things.

831
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:47,480
But it's like, look, if it's
like when it comes to like

832
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:51,240
colours, it's like, yeah, you
like it or you don't like it,

833
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:55,760
It's there's, you know, you
can't be convinced to change

834
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:59,480
your mind.
Is there some sort of technical

835
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:01,360
term though?
And I'm not asking you to

836
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,480
strengthen my argument for me,
but like, do you understand what

837
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:05,720
I'm talking about when I say
that?

838
00:52:05,720 --> 00:52:09,400
There's like something about the
way he's either diffusing light

839
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:14,120
or adding filters or grading
where it it almost makes like

840
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:18,080
human skin look plastic at
moments for me.

841
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:19,040
No.
OK.

842
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:23,960
Well, here's what I can say.
It's there's elements of just

843
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:26,640
like the color grade that are
simply manipulated in the

844
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:30,360
colors.
But it's also so much of this,

845
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,440
it's not as simple as being
like, oh, it's this one thing

846
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:37,360
because what Kaminsky is doing
is so complicated where so much

847
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:41,400
of it is also like the light
where all of the exterior day

848
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,520
scenes like it.
You look at the behind the

849
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:50,560
scenes photos and stuff and they
have giant lights rigged up on

850
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:53,680
cranes to basically create extra
sun.

851
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:58,600
And so that's so that, yeah,
that's why you, you know, you

852
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:02,320
look at like you look at America
and it's like, oh, this is,

853
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:06,000
there is still, even though this
is the middle of the day, there

854
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:09,440
is perfect edge lighting on
everybody.

855
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:11,760
This is because again, also they
just have a ton of money and

856
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:16,720
like unlimited resources, but
this is they, they can light

857
00:53:16,720 --> 00:53:21,240
exterior day scenes so
immaculately and, and well,

858
00:53:21,240 --> 00:53:26,520
we've just been used to.
So again, with digitally shot

859
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:30,120
movies, exterior day is what
they always have the most

860
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:31,240
trouble with.
That is all.

861
00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:36,400
Again, you, you look at, look at
anything in, in Wicked or a

862
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:39,520
Marvel movie or whatever.
And it's like, even if it has

863
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:43,000
good looking interior scenes, it
just falls apart when they go

864
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,280
outside.
It just looks like, 'cause it's

865
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:50,240
just, they just light it really,
really softly and grate it in a

866
00:53:50,240 --> 00:53:53,600
really low contrast way.
And it's, that's become the

867
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:56,400
norm.
And so West Side Story isn't

868
00:53:56,400 --> 00:54:00,600
trying to look realistic.
It's, it's, it's, it's still

869
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:03,400
doing like a magical movie
lighting, but it's just like,

870
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:07,680
oh, look, you can actually have
magical movie lighting when

871
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:12,880
they're outside as well.
And so, so, yeah, it, it's, so

872
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:16,320
you have, so it's the lighting,
it's the color grade.

873
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:19,520
It is.
I, I will say he's not going as

874
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:24,480
hard on diffusion filters and
like netting the lens as he did

875
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:29,120
on Minority Report.
So the, the, the movie is not

876
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:32,960
glowing as much as other
Kaminsky films have glowed.

877
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:42,040
I but yeah, but it, it, it's
look the Yonnish has it's I, I'm

878
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:45,160
not even an expert on, on how he
does what he does, but it is the

879
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:48,560
thing of like, look, he, he
almost only works with Spielberg

880
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:53,560
and has such total mastery of
what he is doing that he can

881
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:58,680
that, that he, you know, the
entire process from start all

882
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:01,400
the way through post production,
he can basically manipulate

883
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:04,800
everything to get exactly what
he's looking for.

884
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:10,040
And so I can't tell you what he
does where, but but yeah, I, I,

885
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:13,360
I, I sort of know what you're
talking about in terms of some

886
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:17,840
skin tones, but in general.
But yeah, but I'm, I'm like,

887
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:19,960
well, when you talk about the
America sequence, I'm like,

888
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:22,800
you've, you've lost me there
because that's where you've lost

889
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:24,120
me.
Because, because, Because that

890
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:26,800
is that does not look like the
prologue does.

891
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:29,560
Yeah, yeah, I get that.
All right.

892
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:32,640
So you can understand where I'm
coming from, but I'm still

893
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:34,680
generally wrong is what I'm
getting here.

894
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:37,520
No, no, I'm there, there.
There's no right or wrong.

895
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:40,960
It is.
It is just simply, to me, a

896
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:45,240
truly deranged opinion you
should go to jail for.

897
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:46,800
Yeah, love it.
Love.

898
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:50,520
It, but it's not wrong.
I can agree with you on that and

899
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:52,200
still say like it's not.
You could have.

900
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:57,400
Captured like the dull grayness
of what, the first scene Jet

901
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:01,240
song, whatever, without also
adding like that cheap looking

902
00:56:01,240 --> 00:56:05,200
blue ass filter on top of it.
Like there's just some decisions

903
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:06,920
in the color grade that bothered
me.

904
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:09,760
I can't believe we've been
talking about this for 15

905
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:11,680
minutes.
Brad, it's important you opened

906
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:14,920
the floodgates here and this is
clearly we have lost listeners

907
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:17,920
at a staggering rate.
No, they're, they're joining

908
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:18,960
just for this.
Part.

909
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:21,160
That's what I'm saying.
It's.

910
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:23,840
Like a live broadcast, people
are being like, yo, you got to

911
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:27,240
listen to film and whiskey.
Willem's this is is screaming at

912
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:31,840
Kaminski.
Kaminski Well, Brad, let me

913
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:34,280
pause us here because we are
almost an hour in.

914
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:36,440
I think we need to drink this
whiskey.

915
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:38,600
We'll come back and I will
continue.

916
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:40,360
My I have so many hot takes on
this.

917
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:43,320
I'll get into Spielberg and what
I think he did poorly in this

918
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:45,960
movie.
After our whiskey break, Brad,

919
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:48,280
let's hit pause.
Let's drink some Penelope

920
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:49,400
Riviera.
What do you say?

921
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:54,240
That was everything I could have
ever hoped it would be.

922
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:58,160
I knew I was hoping in a can.
I didn't know quite what was in

923
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:00,400
it, but that was a can of whoop
ass.

924
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:05,080
And and I think we need to drink
whiskey.

925
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:14,400
Let's get to it, Bob.
All right, everybody, we kicked

926
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:17,280
Patrick out so that we could
come do a whiskey review today.

927
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:19,720
And we've got a brand that we
haven't talked about in a while.

928
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:24,240
It's the Penelope brand, which
Brad, we have a great history

929
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:26,880
with Penelope.
So I'm very excited to dive into

930
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:29,840
today's whiskey, which is called
Riviera.

931
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:34,600
Now Riviera is an interesting
blend of whiskeys and I'm going

932
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:36,880
to pull up the spec sheet just
to make sure I say it all

933
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:40,360
correctly.
So Riviera blends 8 year

934
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:44,040
American light whiskey with
straight bourbon and is then

935
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:47,440
finished in rose wine casks from
Southern France.

936
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:49,360
Now there's two things to note
here.

937
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:53,720
Number one, we have had the
Penelope rose finish before and

938
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:58,440
it is freaking phenomenal.
So I'm very excited to return to

939
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:00,720
anything finished in Rose from
Penelope.

940
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,040
The other thing is American
Light whiskey, which is a

941
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:08,120
category that we've only dipped
into maybe once before, It has a

942
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:12,720
very different set of rules from
bourbon or rye, kind of similar

943
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:15,560
to what we have when we drink
corn whiskey on the podcast.

944
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:19,520
So American Light whiskey was
developed kind of as a response

945
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:23,280
to the growing trends through
the 60s of people moving away

946
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:26,040
from brown liquors and towards
like vodka's.

947
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:29,800
And so like, you know, a while
back we did a review, gosh, this

948
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:32,960
was back in like maybe season 3
Seagram's 7.

949
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:37,000
And so one Ave. that some
whiskeys took, like Seagram's 7

950
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:41,400
was to just basically cut their
whiskey with what's called

951
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:43,680
neutral grain spirits, basically
vodka.

952
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:45,960
We're just blending vodka and
whiskey.

953
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:48,560
And hopefully people who like
vodka will drink, drink this

954
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:50,600
whiskey.
The other route that they went

955
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:53,840
was what's called light whiskey,
which is you basically make it

956
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:57,280
the same way you make whiskey,
but you distill it to a way

957
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:01,040
higher proof point.
So like 160 to 190 proof.

958
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:04,840
It basically strips a lot of the
grain character out of it and

959
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:07,800
then they age it in used barrel
so that it doesn't get some of

960
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:10,640
those like harsh tannins from
the the barrel itself.

961
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:13,600
So it's aged for much longer,
similar to corn whiskey.

962
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:16,760
And the resulting whiskey ends
up tasting like this very

963
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:20,320
wonderful matured whiskey.
It's just made a completely

964
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:23,160
different way.
So this is 8 year light whiskey

965
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:24,920
that's blended with straight
bourbon.

966
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:26,640
I've been talking for two
minutes straight.

967
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:28,160
Brad.
I'd love to hear your thoughts

968
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:29,920
before we dive into this,
Penelope.

969
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:35,000
Yeah, I'm always fascinated when
people take different

970
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:39,160
experiences of whiskey and blend
it together into something new.

971
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:42,760
So I'm I'm intrigued.
I have good feelings and vibes

972
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:46,120
towards Penelope already.
So yeah, I'm excited to get in,

973
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:47,400
man.
All right, now, you just

974
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:50,080
finished drinking this before we
jumped on the horn here, so

975
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:53,040
you've got notes ready to go.
I'm drinking it live.

976
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:55,960
This is how we do it, folks.
I'm going to start nosing this

977
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:58,600
while Brad gives his notes and
I'll tell him whether he's right

978
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:01,560
or wrong.
Yeah, as I got into the nose on

979
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:05,640
this, it really had a ton of
floralness.

980
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:09,400
There was like a, it lacked the
Tang of a traditional Peach.

981
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:11,440
It reminded me more of like a
white Peach.

982
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:14,760
There was table grapes.
It had some citrusy kind of

983
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:18,440
orange peel vibes.
It's a really pleasant nose, but

984
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:22,560
it's not anything that like
makes me super excited.

985
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:24,560
So I'm going to give it a 7 out
of 10 here.

986
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:27,000
I I think it's good.
I'm curious to see where we go

987
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,560
on the palate.
Yeah, I actually share a lot of

988
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:32,240
notes with you on this one.
I'm going to give it a 7.5.

989
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:36,400
But so with light whiskey, we've
been finding it increasingly

990
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:39,480
more popular in the market.
I think during the whiskey boom

991
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:41,480
when people just had nothing
else to make, they were like,

992
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:45,480
let's do light whiskey.
And so now we're getting 1518

993
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:48,400
year aged light whiskey being
released and that stuff is

994
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:50,800
phenomenal. eight-year light
whiskey.

995
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:53,560
That's nothing to sneeze at.
But because it doesn't pick up

996
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:57,200
as much of that wood character
as a charred or a new charred

997
01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:01,720
barrel would have it, it just
takes a lot older to really get

998
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:03,800
that maturity.
And the fact that they're

999
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:06,520
blending this with straight
bourbon, it doesn't say how old.

1000
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:11,000
So maybe four years, but I mean,
it only has to legally be two

1001
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:12,840
years to be called straight
bourbon.

1002
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:18,720
I don't know how old the actual
balance of this whiskey is, and

1003
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:21,280
I think it smells a little bit
youthful to me now.

1004
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:23,280
It's what's kind of masking
that.

1005
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:26,720
Are these citrusy, bright notes
that you're getting?

1006
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:29,920
There's a ton of like lemon
peel, orange zest.

1007
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:33,280
There's just a ton going on here
that keep it in that like bright

1008
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:36,880
floral headspace.
I do kind of wonder though, if

1009
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:40,200
that youthful sense I'm getting
on the nose is going to creep up

1010
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:43,000
in the taste.
But for now, 7 1/2 on the nose.

1011
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:47,080
Yeah, I think that the.
Palate as I got into drinking

1012
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:51,120
it, it reminded me a lot of of
of rum almost.

1013
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:54,600
It has a very cane sugar vibe
going on.

1014
01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:58,320
There's vanilla bean that white
Peach sticks around for me.

1015
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:02,320
It's got a nice soft peachy tone
without much of the tanginess.

1016
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:05,280
I it's a really pleasant
whiskey.

1017
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:08,600
I once again, there's nothing
that like makes me get out of my

1018
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:12,760
chair and get excited, but it's
a solid experience to drink.

1019
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:15,040
I'll come up a little bit here.
I'll give it a 7 1/2.

1020
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:18,240
Yeah, I'm going to stick right
in the same realm that I was

1021
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:19,840
before.
I'm going to beat a 7 out of 10

1022
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:21,800
on this one.
I think you're on point today,

1023
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:23,520
man.
It, there is a lot of rum

1024
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:26,920
character to it because even an
aged rum, you know, if you get

1025
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:30,440
like a three-year, 4 year aged
rum, it's like, wow, they left

1026
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:33,720
this rum in the barrel for four
years and it it stays in that

1027
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:36,760
kind of like simplistic sugar
note.

1028
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:41,000
This has that.
And I will say, like part of the

1029
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:44,000
reason you use light whiskey is
because it's supposed to be a

1030
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:48,080
lot softer and not carry those
like tannic flavors with it.

1031
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:51,880
This definitely has a lot of
like it has that kind of toasted

1032
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:57,800
barrel char ashiness to me,
coupled with like a black tea

1033
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:01,280
tannic kind of quality, which if
they were trying to avoid that,

1034
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:03,280
like it's it's definitely here
for me.

1035
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:05,440
I don't think it's a bad
whiskey, but I'm going to give

1036
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:09,200
it a 7 out of 10.
The tea notes is right where I

1037
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:12,000
was going on the finish.
To me, it's almost like you took

1038
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:16,760
a Peach tea and added like
legitimate black tea to it and

1039
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:20,000
you get a little bit of that
bitterness that comes through on

1040
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,520
the back end.
The vanilla turns into like a

1041
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:27,120
vanilla protein powder more than
like fresh vanilla, and the

1042
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:30,520
orangeiness turns into like an
orange rind on the back end.

1043
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:34,760
I don't dislike the finish.
It definitely drops off a little

1044
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:36,760
bit for me.
I'm going to give it a 6 1/2

1045
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:39,560
here.
I mean, I don't think that it is

1046
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:41,520
a mistake that they released
this in the spring.

1047
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:45,120
This is definitely like a
springtime floral kind of summer

1048
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:49,120
sipper.
For me it's 94 proof, which I

1049
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:51,440
think is a perfect proof point
if you do want to mix it with

1050
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:55,880
something and if you threw this
into like an iced Peach tea in

1051
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:57,400
the summer.
It'd be great.

1052
01:03:57,400 --> 01:03:59,240
This is like a great porch
sipper.

1053
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:02,120
Again, we're we're drinking it
neat though.

1054
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:04,400
So those finished notes,
everything I got on the pallet

1055
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:06,240
is sticking around on the finish
there.

1056
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:09,080
You know, I don't know if they
used used charred barrels or

1057
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:12,160
uncharred barrels for the light
whiskey, but there's definitely

1058
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:14,560
some of that kind of tannic
charred note going on in the

1059
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:18,080
back of my pallet.
The vanilla is there, but like

1060
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:21,400
you said, Brad, it doesn't like
overwhelm anything and the

1061
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:24,280
orange becomes more of like an
orange pith rather than orange

1062
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:26,280
zest.
So once again, I'm going to be

1063
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:29,920
at a 7 out of 10 here.
I think I will give it a 7.5 on

1064
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:32,640
balance.
It's a it's a perfect like 3 out

1065
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:36,480
of four-star whiskey for me.
Where where you falling on the

1066
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:38,600
balance bread?
I think I'll come down a little

1067
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:40,000
bit.
I, I don't think there's enough

1068
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:44,640
complexity here for me to give
it over A7 or even add a 7.

1069
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:48,080
I'll give it a 6 1/2 out of 10.
I I think it's relatively well

1070
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:50,120
balanced.
There's nothing that like comes

1071
01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:53,040
out of left field, but but
there's nothing about the

1072
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:55,840
experience that I'm like really
passionate about.

1073
01:04:56,000 --> 01:05:01,400
S 6 1/2 now value in the
illustrious state of Ohio.

1074
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:07,280
This will set you back $79.99.
So it's an $80 whiskey.

1075
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:11,920
And that for me, Bob is, is kind
of the breaking point on this.

1076
01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:17,520
I feel like it's a 45 to $50
quality.

1077
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:23,280
You know. $87.00 with with tax I
I'm going to give it a 4 1/2 on

1078
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:26,280
value Bob.
Yeah, I'm at a 5 out of 10 on

1079
01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:27,840
value I.
Think this is for like a

1080
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:31,440
Penelope completest.
Like if this is your brand, try

1081
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:33,520
it out.
I will say, you know, this is

1082
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:35,320
the first thing we've had from
Penelope in a while.

1083
01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:37,400
Thankfully, we have another
bottle of something coming in

1084
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:39,640
the mail or they might cut us
off after this review.

1085
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:43,920
But we really like Penelope and
I especially like the Rose

1086
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:45,720
finish.
If you just get the regular

1087
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:49,280
Penelope rose.
I do think that that is because

1088
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:50,600
of the sweet notes of the
bourbon.

1089
01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:53,280
It's it's leagues better than
this one is.

1090
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:56,080
Now, is this a fun summertime
mixer?

1091
01:05:56,360 --> 01:05:58,720
Absolutely.
I don't know that would ever

1092
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:02,920
recommend paying $80.00 for it.
So if Penelope is your thing,

1093
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:04,400
maybe you want to shell out for
it.

1094
01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:06,360
I'm going to give it a 5 out of
10 on value.

1095
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:09,440
And that brings me to a 34 out
of 50.

1096
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:11,160
Brad, where are you falling on
this one?

1097
01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:14,240
Just a little bit lower at a 32
out of 50.

1098
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:17,160
All right.
So we're averaging A33.

1099
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:22,720
Or a 66 out of 100 and that puts
us just shy of the 35 mark where

1100
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:26,280
we typically start recommending.
I will say like, I don't think

1101
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:29,520
that this is a, if you just said
like in a vacuum, good whiskey,

1102
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:31,560
bad whiskey, this is not a bad
whiskey.

1103
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:36,800
I think the the price point is
probably the biggest detractor

1104
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:39,760
from me giving it a thumbs up if
we're just talking about the

1105
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:41,760
juice.
Like, yeah, I would give this a

1106
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:45,160
hesitant kind of thumbs up if
you find a pour at the bar or if

1107
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:47,880
you see it on a friend's shelf.
It's definitely worth trying.

1108
01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:49,880
Just can't recommend $80.00 for
it.

1109
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:52,640
Yeah, the $80.00 is a little bit
of a deal breaker.

1110
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:55,080
For me, everything you said is
where I'm at, Bob.

1111
01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:58,200
So yeah, look, look at us, man,
on the same page.

1112
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:00,720
We may not be on the same page
about.

1113
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:02,840
West Side Story or Yanish
Kaminsky.

1114
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:05,920
But we are on the same page
about Penelope Riviera.

1115
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:07,960
That's right.
I love it.

1116
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:09,680
All right, man, let's.
Get back to talking to.

1117
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:11,760
Patrick Williams about West Side
Story.

1118
01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:13,040
What do you say?
Let's get to.

1119
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:19,600
Let's get to it.
All right, everybody, that was

1120
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:24,160
Penelope.
Riviera, a whiskey that feels

1121
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:28,520
pretty similar to Bob's take on
on a boy Janusz.

1122
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:33,880
Now I I thought it was a pretty.
Good whiskey, Brad.

1123
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:35,520
I just don't.
Think it was worth 80 something

1124
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:37,680
dollars is where we landed on
that one.

1125
01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:42,680
Now I will, I will get down off
of my apparently wrong high

1126
01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:47,640
horse about Yanis Kaminsky and
his weird plasticine people in

1127
01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:50,000
these movies.
But you know what it is?

1128
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:54,200
It's that the the people in
Spielberg movies recently have

1129
01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:57,680
looked like the characters in
Robert Zemeckis's Welcome to

1130
01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:01,040
Marwin, and that's out of here.
Just get out of here, Bob.

1131
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:05,880
I just sort of like, don't know
what you're talking about, Bob

1132
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:08,400
there.
Are movies where I would agree

1133
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:13,280
with you and and I'm just like
like that that that would be, I

1134
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:16,000
think a good observation on some
films.

1135
01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:20,359
But to be like West Side Story,
I'm like, what, What are you

1136
01:08:20,359 --> 01:08:23,880
talking about?
Have I, I know you have glasses

1137
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:27,600
on right now, but I think maybe
you need to like go check your

1138
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:30,600
prescription and update perhaps.
I have glaucoma as well and

1139
01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:33,560
that's what I'm starting.
To realize, oh, are there any

1140
01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:38,200
scenes you thought looked?
Good, yes, and actually.

1141
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:40,920
That's a thank you for.
Teeing me up with that, I think

1142
01:08:41,319 --> 01:08:45,760
one of the areas that I really
loved what Spielberg did this

1143
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:50,000
time around is the sort of like
the balcony, wherefore art thou

1144
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:53,279
Romeo scene.
Because in the original, and I

1145
01:08:53,279 --> 01:08:56,960
mentioned this then Brad, it's
the first instance of like Tony

1146
01:08:56,960 --> 01:08:59,240
and Maria where the movie
freaking grinds to a halt

1147
01:08:59,279 --> 01:09:01,479
because it's not the dance and
it's not the cool little like

1148
01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:04,160
ballet at the dance.
It's the next scene and they

1149
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:08,200
have that shitty song and like
it's just it's so bad where

1150
01:09:08,200 --> 01:09:11,120
she's going like Tony, Tony.
I hate that song.

1151
01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:16,080
And in this version, it's like,
Hey, let's pull out some great

1152
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:19,640
Spielberg wonners.
And at one point they're like,

1153
01:09:20,359 --> 01:09:26,120
you know, he's he dollies in
across like the face of that

1154
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:29,240
grating to frame them even
closer.

1155
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:32,120
And I'm like, this is when you
get Spielberg to move the

1156
01:09:32,120 --> 01:09:33,840
camera.
A scene like this, which has

1157
01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:37,399
absolutely no forward momentum.
He creates it.

1158
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:42,520
And I will also give points to
Kaminsky because they for being

1159
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:47,720
a a much more lifelike set in
that scene.

1160
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:50,600
They just straight up go stage
lighting.

1161
01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:53,279
And when she comes out on the
balcony, it's like, let's just

1162
01:09:53,279 --> 01:09:54,880
throw a spotlight on her.
You know?

1163
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:56,400
It's like, let's just do that.
Why not?

1164
01:09:56,440 --> 01:09:58,240
And it's you don't.
You don't even question, like,

1165
01:09:58,320 --> 01:09:59,800
where's the spotlight coming
from?

1166
01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:03,080
Because it just makes sense for
the dramatic stakes of that

1167
01:10:03,080 --> 01:10:05,120
scene.
So I thought that that was like

1168
01:10:05,360 --> 01:10:07,720
a clear upgrade from the 61
version.

1169
01:10:08,200 --> 01:10:10,480
Yeah.
How about the dance of the?

1170
01:10:10,480 --> 01:10:16,400
Gym that's I am neutral on that.
I thought that like.

1171
01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:22,440
How in terms of like, is it an
improvement or is it like worse?

1172
01:10:22,440 --> 01:10:24,880
I think I'm in the nude.
Like they're both they both

1173
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:28,240
serve their own purpose.
And I love when they drop all

1174
01:10:28,240 --> 01:10:30,800
the lighting out from behind
them in the 61 version.

1175
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:33,880
And they kind of exist in this
dreamlike state.

1176
01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:37,160
Whereas in this one, it's like,
let's physically remove them

1177
01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:39,480
from the dance and put them
behind the bleachers so that

1178
01:10:39,480 --> 01:10:40,760
they can have that moment with
each other.

1179
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:42,280
But they but they still both
work.

1180
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:43,840
But they still.
When they go into the.

1181
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:46,400
Bleachers like you can.
See through the bleachers and

1182
01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:49,600
nobody else exists.
I thought that was like a really

1183
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:53,320
nice call back to the original
and also in that sequence of the

1184
01:10:53,320 --> 01:10:55,400
original when everyone.
Else kind of fades out and they

1185
01:10:55,400 --> 01:10:58,160
have kind of have just like
these sort of like glowy lights

1186
01:10:58,160 --> 01:11:01,000
appear.
They do a similar thing here,

1187
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:04,720
but the and and they really use
like Spielberg doesn't often

1188
01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:11,560
shoot on anamorphic lenses and
he does on this and but he kind

1189
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:15,280
of waits until until Tony and
Maria see each other.

1190
01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:20,480
Then the anamorphic lens flares
come in really hard.

1191
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:25,320
As in like it's, it's basically
like stars appearing when these

1192
01:11:25,320 --> 01:11:29,560
two see each other and then and,
and like the light pouring in

1193
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:30,520
when they're under the
bleachers.

1194
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:34,760
I'm just like this, like this is
like as good as cinema gets

1195
01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:36,840
right here.
And like, this is like the light

1196
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:41,840
and color in that sequence
again, I'm just like, this is so

1197
01:11:41,960 --> 01:11:45,000
rich and vibrant and just.
And the way that they are

1198
01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:49,480
manipulating the lighting in an
unrealistic way where it's like,

1199
01:11:49,480 --> 01:11:53,800
it makes emotional sense, but
there isn't really a real

1200
01:11:54,160 --> 01:12:00,080
tangible diegetic reason for why
the light is suddenly changing

1201
01:12:00,320 --> 01:12:03,520
like at this moment, other than
that they're feeling something.

1202
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:09,040
I think that is staggering.
And it like, I get kind of like

1203
01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:13,000
choked up just by like how good
the filmmaking is.

1204
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:16,560
And also, again, I feel
something about this

1205
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:20,720
relationship because of the work
being done.

1206
01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:24,280
The the one thing I I'm.
With you Patrick.

1207
01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:27,520
I love the dance scene in the
2021 version.

1208
01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:31,400
Love it in the original as well.
The one change, Bob, you asked

1209
01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:33,800
earlier, like what are some
changes that we might not have

1210
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:36,840
liked?
I know that.

1211
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:38,560
Spielberg was going for a little
bit more.

1212
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:42,960
Of a movie feel.
And so the moment that Tony and

1213
01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:47,720
Maria see each other it it makes
more sense in a movie for it to

1214
01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:51,240
be a little more subtle, a
little more like, OK, the

1215
01:12:51,240 --> 01:12:53,880
clearly they notice each other,
but nothing really changes.

1216
01:12:53,880 --> 01:12:55,200
The whole scene is still
happening.

1217
01:12:55,920 --> 01:13:00,720
I freaking love in the original
when they see each other and it

1218
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:04,240
it's not immediate that
everybody else disappears, but

1219
01:13:04,240 --> 01:13:07,360
the way it's like this kind of
radial blur.

1220
01:13:07,440 --> 01:13:10,280
Where they like there's only
focus in one part of the shot

1221
01:13:10,280 --> 01:13:12,160
and everything else is out of
focus.

1222
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:13,560
I freaking love that in this
version.

1223
01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:14,840
I like what they did though
because.

1224
01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:17,600
They they have.
Like he films a lot of the dance

1225
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:21,200
scene with long lenses.
And so you you have almost this

1226
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:24,760
kind of like observational
documentary, like when Tony and

1227
01:13:24,760 --> 01:13:28,480
Maria see each other, there's
like layers of people between

1228
01:13:28,480 --> 01:13:32,560
the camera and Tony and they're
all walking by while these two.

1229
01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:35,480
Figures like are are remain
standing in place.

1230
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:37,080
Yeah, yeah.
I thought.

1231
01:13:37,080 --> 01:13:40,160
I thought it was a really.
Elegant way of kind of solving

1232
01:13:40,160 --> 01:13:44,360
what is admittedly like a cheesy
look in the original.

1233
01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:46,600
That kind of like smudgy focal
thing.

1234
01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:49,080
It was cheesy but I freaking
loved it.

1235
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:51,200
I don't know what it is, but
that's like one of the things

1236
01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:53,360
from the original I loved the
most.

1237
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:58,360
All right.
Do I get into my Spielberg hot?

1238
01:13:58,360 --> 01:14:00,360
Take.
Or do we save that for the end

1239
01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:03,280
of the episode?
No, now let's RIP that Band-Aid.

1240
01:14:03,280 --> 01:14:07,080
Off do it.
OK.

1241
01:14:08,440 --> 01:14:12,280
My overarching complaints about.
Musicals in the 21st century

1242
01:14:12,280 --> 01:14:16,360
Brad this is well documented on
our podcast is that I think

1243
01:14:16,360 --> 01:14:19,840
generally speaking this does not
apply to Spielberg but like

1244
01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:25,320
generally speaking, film makers
have forgotten that the best

1245
01:14:25,760 --> 01:14:27,920
tool in their.
Like.

1246
01:14:28,280 --> 01:14:32,120
Arsenal the best weapon?
In their arsenal is putting the

1247
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:37,720
camera down in a fixed spot and
simply panning back in.

1248
01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:41,440
Like just swinging the camera
back and forth as Fred Astaire

1249
01:14:41,440 --> 01:14:45,880
or Gene Kelly moves along a
horizontal plane in one space

1250
01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:50,440
because you get the the camera
stops being a distraction and

1251
01:14:50,440 --> 01:14:55,880
you get the full effect of that
person's kinetic dynamism.

1252
01:14:56,520 --> 01:15:00,320
And I think that like when you
watch classic MGM musicals.

1253
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:02,560
So I mean, unless you're doing
like Busby.

1254
01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:05,120
Berkeley stuff like.
So much of it is just like,

1255
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:08,400
here's the camera, we're going
to go this way, we're going to

1256
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:10,200
go this way.
We're not even tracking really.

1257
01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:14,760
We're just kind of like panning
back and forth and it creates an

1258
01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:19,400
incredibly dynamic moment
because the performers are so

1259
01:15:19,400 --> 01:15:22,040
dynamic now.
I think we've also lost like

1260
01:15:22,240 --> 01:15:26,360
really, really great triple
threat actor singer dancers in

1261
01:15:26,360 --> 01:15:29,040
cinema like since the studio
system collapsed.

1262
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:33,480
But I think that so much of what
film makers have done to try to

1263
01:15:33,480 --> 01:15:37,320
compensate for that is like,
we're going to get really.

1264
01:15:37,320 --> 01:15:39,520
Inventive with the.
Camera and how we move the

1265
01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:43,120
camera within musical numbers.
And I think a lot of times it

1266
01:15:43,120 --> 01:15:45,920
has the opposite effect where
it's like, this would have been

1267
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:51,440
better if I had more of a sense
of the movement of the dancers

1268
01:15:51,440 --> 01:15:53,440
and the camera wasn't taking
away from that.

1269
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:57,400
So enter Spielberg.
Perhaps.

1270
01:15:57,400 --> 01:16:01,640
The greatest mover of the camera
we have ever had.

1271
01:16:02,560 --> 01:16:05,760
There are moments in this movie
where it's like, that's an

1272
01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:07,760
awesome touch.
I just talked about the balcony

1273
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:09,200
scene.
The way he moves the camera in

1274
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:12,080
that scene gives it a forward
momentum that it never had

1275
01:16:12,080 --> 01:16:14,920
before.
Even in like the the dance at

1276
01:16:14,920 --> 01:16:20,960
the gym, there's a moment where
like Riff swings Graziella like

1277
01:16:21,080 --> 01:16:27,520
head first towards the Sharks
girls and you get this like whip

1278
01:16:27,520 --> 01:16:31,800
pan and like immediate push in
as she almost like smacks her in

1279
01:16:31,800 --> 01:16:34,080
the face.
And it's like, that was a really

1280
01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:36,480
cool shot.
You know, the moment in cool

1281
01:16:36,680 --> 01:16:39,720
where they're fighting over the
gun and they slam their hands on

1282
01:16:39,720 --> 01:16:42,440
the ground with the gun and you
get the like tilt down.

1283
01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:45,240
It's it's a really cool and
dynamic shot.

1284
01:16:45,680 --> 01:16:47,920
There are other times in this
movie, and I guess this is the

1285
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:51,520
furthest I'll go with the
criticism where I'm like, I wish

1286
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:55,000
Spielberg would kind of just
like put the camera on a tripod

1287
01:16:55,600 --> 01:17:00,120
once in a while and let the
kinetic energy of the dance tell

1288
01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:04,200
the story without him feeling
the need to assist with the

1289
01:17:04,200 --> 01:17:07,840
camera movements.
That's like, that's the farthest

1290
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:11,080
I'll go with it.
I still think that like he moves

1291
01:17:11,080 --> 01:17:14,040
the camera in incredible ways in
this movie.

1292
01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:19,400
I just kind of wonder sometimes,
like is he overly cocky in the

1293
01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:20,120
way?
That he moves the.

1294
01:17:20,120 --> 01:17:22,640
Camera or do you think that
maybe he didn't trust himself

1295
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:25,400
enough because this is his first
musical, to kind of leave it

1296
01:17:25,400 --> 01:17:27,040
alone?
Sometimes it just feels like

1297
01:17:27,280 --> 01:17:30,360
there are moments in this movie
where the camera's a little busy

1298
01:17:30,360 --> 01:17:32,600
for me.
That's as far as I'll go with

1299
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:34,240
it, Brad.
Maybe not as hot as I wanted it

1300
01:17:34,240 --> 01:17:36,880
to be.
I would say at this point, Bob,

1301
01:17:36,880 --> 01:17:38,520
I think you.
Do need to keep it cool?

1302
01:17:42,840 --> 01:17:47,480
I think that a world where.
You know, David tried to kill 2

1303
01:17:47,480 --> 01:17:51,120
Goliaths in a row, we wouldn't
know who David was anymore.

1304
01:17:51,120 --> 01:17:55,080
So it's probably wise.
You've slung your stones at

1305
01:17:55,080 --> 01:17:58,120
Kaminsky.
Hold back on Spielberg a little

1306
01:17:58,120 --> 01:18:01,640
bit.
I I will say to.

1307
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:10,720
Mildly defend Bob here.
I can understand this take even

1308
01:18:10,720 --> 01:18:14,440
if I don't really agree with it.
While the commit while like the

1309
01:18:14,440 --> 01:18:19,520
lighting and color take, I just
thought was like deranged.

1310
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:21,480
Yeah, just just.
Deranged stuff.

1311
01:18:21,480 --> 01:18:24,920
Just like like that's like you,
that's that should be illegal to

1312
01:18:24,920 --> 01:18:27,440
say.
Like like I'm adapting in real

1313
01:18:27,440 --> 01:18:29,240
time.
That's what we're, Yeah, but no.

1314
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:32,080
We need to suspend.
Bob's First Amendment.

1315
01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:35,600
Rights because of that take, I
mean, we.

1316
01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:40,560
Probably should have done that a
long time ago, but sure I but it

1317
01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:45,680
is the thing like the camera
does move a lot in this movie

1318
01:18:46,440 --> 01:18:51,160
and I, I I can again, I don't
agree, but I understand the

1319
01:18:51,160 --> 01:18:53,960
argument for maybe chill out a
bit more.

1320
01:18:54,440 --> 01:19:01,480
I, I I will say that.
So I, I, I.

1321
01:19:01,480 --> 01:19:03,280
Think this movie.
Contains several of the most.

1322
01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:09,920
Staggering musical numbers ever
put on film just once I I

1323
01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:15,360
rewatch frequently because I
just again, it's that you know

1324
01:19:15,400 --> 01:19:18,360
the it's it's that West Side
Story combo of some of the

1325
01:19:18,360 --> 01:19:22,120
greatest music ever written.
Shout out Leonard Bernstein.

1326
01:19:22,400 --> 01:19:27,680
And then just you know, our our
greatest living visual

1327
01:19:27,680 --> 01:19:34,360
storyteller on knowing how to
just how to capture movement to

1328
01:19:35,720 --> 01:19:41,200
In Sync with with this music to
just an astounding degree there,

1329
01:19:42,440 --> 01:19:45,240
especially when you look at 21st
century musicals.

1330
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:51,080
It is amazing how long the
shots.

1331
01:19:51,080 --> 01:19:53,480
Are.
In this compared to literally

1332
01:19:53,480 --> 01:19:57,120
everything else you look at
like, I mean, especially, you

1333
01:19:57,120 --> 01:20:01,040
know, Rob Marshall, one of the
only people allowed to make

1334
01:20:01,480 --> 01:20:04,560
Hollywood musicals because he
made Chicago 1st and won an

1335
01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:06,600
Oscar.
And then they're like, well, now

1336
01:20:06,600 --> 01:20:08,520
you make half the musicals that
exist.

1337
01:20:08,800 --> 01:20:11,880
But it's like, yeah, it's, it's,
you know.

1338
01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:15,040
It's weird looking at Chicago
now and it's like, Jesus Christ,

1339
01:20:15,040 --> 01:20:17,800
this guy came from the theater
and he's cutting like every

1340
01:20:17,800 --> 01:20:22,040
second on like just like like
the body parts of the dancing.

1341
01:20:22,600 --> 01:20:26,520
And and then you, you look at
the sort of like there, there

1342
01:20:26,520 --> 01:20:32,520
are parts in America and the,
the dance, the gym where he just

1343
01:20:32,600 --> 01:20:35,880
the camera basically stops
moving and he just holds on a

1344
01:20:35,880 --> 01:20:41,560
really wide shot that lasts for
like sometimes up to a minute.

1345
01:20:42,080 --> 01:20:46,560
And it is and, and like, and
constantly it is the shots are

1346
01:20:46,560 --> 01:20:49,720
wide.
You can see not just a body, but

1347
01:20:49,920 --> 01:20:52,880
many, many human bodies all
moving together.

1348
01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:56,040
You can see the choreography.
And I think it's this, look,

1349
01:20:57,000 --> 01:20:59,160
what I will say about
Spielberg's musical numbers is

1350
01:20:59,160 --> 01:21:03,240
the same thing I'll say for his
action scenes where the guy just

1351
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:06,960
like knows when the.
Camera should move.

1352
01:21:07,440 --> 01:21:11,200
When to cut, He just has this
innate savant, like,

1353
01:21:11,200 --> 01:21:15,040
understanding of this medium
better than basically anybody.

1354
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:20,800
And so, yeah, So all these
musical numbers, like, even

1355
01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:24,720
though the camera is very active
and it's doing a lot, there's

1356
01:21:24,720 --> 01:21:27,840
never a point where I can't tell
what's going on for me.

1357
01:21:27,840 --> 01:21:29,720
There's again, for sure, this is
just me.

1358
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:34,960
There's never a point where what
the camera is doing does not

1359
01:21:37,280 --> 01:21:39,880
connect with with what the.
Music is doing.

1360
01:21:40,240 --> 01:21:43,680
And in general, it's something
where I think the he makes the

1361
01:21:43,680 --> 01:21:49,560
camera a really incredible part
of the choreography, as if it is

1362
01:21:49,640 --> 01:21:52,720
another dancer.
And I think it is so beautifully

1363
01:21:52,720 --> 01:21:55,800
In Sync with what the dancers
are doing.

1364
01:21:56,000 --> 01:21:59,160
And of course, you've got
something like tonight, tonight.

1365
01:21:59,240 --> 01:22:00,560
Is it tonight tonight or just
tonight?

1366
01:22:02,120 --> 01:22:04,640
I think it's just tonight, OK?
I yeah, don't.

1367
01:22:04,640 --> 01:22:05,600
Write.
Write tonight.

1368
01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:12,040
Tonight, tonight is the smashing
pumpkin song and with, with,

1369
01:22:12,040 --> 01:22:16,880
with a great music video.
But I but tonight, because that

1370
01:22:17,880 --> 01:22:21,240
that song, it obviously it it
does, it's not a dance number.

1371
01:22:21,560 --> 01:22:25,600
And so the camera there is doing
so much storytelling, especially

1372
01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:29,800
in that sequence where, yeah,
Tony and Maria are separated by

1373
01:22:30,040 --> 01:22:32,960
like like the grading and the
fire escape for so long until

1374
01:22:32,960 --> 01:22:38,000
finally like Tony vaults over
the the side and they are like,

1375
01:22:38,040 --> 01:22:40,960
like together there.
And it is just, it's so elegant

1376
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:43,280
and so impressive.
But then you just, you've just

1377
01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:48,120
got like America, you just have
this, you know, this huge group

1378
01:22:48,120 --> 01:22:53,680
of people in brightly colored
clothing just dancing in in the

1379
01:22:53,680 --> 01:22:56,920
middle of the street as the
camera elegantly, you know,

1380
01:22:56,920 --> 01:23:00,760
cranes up and that and I'm like
almost reduced to tears because

1381
01:23:00,760 --> 01:23:04,640
it's, it's just so beautiful.
Or you got I look, I could do

1382
01:23:04,640 --> 01:23:06,800
this all day.
I, I, I promise I will, I will

1383
01:23:07,360 --> 01:23:10,840
limit myself.
But you've got the beginning of

1384
01:23:10,840 --> 01:23:14,200
the dance, the gym where you
have this insane shot.

1385
01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:21,920
I where it fought like it.
It's got Tony, sorry, not Tony

1386
01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:25,920
Bernardo and Anita and Mariardo
and and and and Chino as they're

1387
01:23:25,920 --> 01:23:30,640
walking down the hall and then
and it's like on a steady Cam

1388
01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:33,520
and it follow goes back to them
and then pans with them.

1389
01:23:33,520 --> 01:23:35,280
And then they go through the
doors into the gym.

1390
01:23:35,480 --> 01:23:39,680
And then it turns into a crane
shot that swoops up over

1391
01:23:39,680 --> 01:23:43,880
everyone there and then lands
down on almost like on the floor

1392
01:23:44,120 --> 01:23:48,080
right as the dancers like, land
perfectly into frame.

1393
01:23:48,520 --> 01:23:52,560
And then it like dollies left
and like, like, it keeps it it

1394
01:23:52,560 --> 01:23:56,760
it is what he's doing here.
Is just like again.

1395
01:23:56,920 --> 01:24:02,000
In the 21st century, there are
no musical numbers on this

1396
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:04,000
level.
You know, almost all of cinema,

1397
01:24:04,920 --> 01:24:09,200
this is this is really like,
this is some of the best shit

1398
01:24:09,200 --> 01:24:15,000
ever.
And and I, I again, I could go

1399
01:24:15,000 --> 01:24:16,960
on about it all day.
And again, because it's like,

1400
01:24:16,960 --> 01:24:19,120
look, if you're going to do West
Side Story, if you're going to

1401
01:24:19,120 --> 01:24:22,960
do these songs that have already
been executed so well, you'd

1402
01:24:22,960 --> 01:24:27,560
better, you'd better.
It's you know, it's like, it's

1403
01:24:27,560 --> 01:24:30,720
like the, the, the the seat on
The Simpsons where, you know,

1404
01:24:30,720 --> 01:24:33,880
where Barney picks up the, the
glass of beer that's come out of

1405
01:24:33,880 --> 01:24:37,320
a bowling ball and goes, this is
better be the best beer I've

1406
01:24:37,320 --> 01:24:42,960
ever had.
You got lucky and it's it's just

1407
01:24:42,960 --> 01:24:44,360
that it's.
Like, yeah, OK, OK.

1408
01:24:44,600 --> 01:24:46,080
Good job.
You made the best musical

1409
01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:49,000
numbers of all time.
OK, OK, We'll, we'll we'll allow

1410
01:24:49,000 --> 01:24:51,560
it.
I think that this highlights

1411
01:24:51,560 --> 01:24:53,000
like.
For me it's it's the difference.

1412
01:24:53,000 --> 01:24:56,960
Between two film makers and I, I
really did feel the need in our

1413
01:24:56,960 --> 01:25:01,320
last episode to kind of go to
bat for Robert Wise as a person

1414
01:25:01,320 --> 01:25:03,960
with a visual sensibility
because I don't think he gets

1415
01:25:03,960 --> 01:25:06,840
credit for that enough.
And so like, you know, this is

1416
01:25:06,840 --> 01:25:09,280
really simplistic and this is
not the correct terminology, but

1417
01:25:10,360 --> 01:25:15,360
when I think about like shot
composition, I think about if

1418
01:25:15,360 --> 01:25:19,840
we're imagining a shot like a
still frame, how are we

1419
01:25:19,840 --> 01:25:22,400
composing it within the frame
without the movement of the

1420
01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:24,600
camera involved?
Now I know that that is part of

1421
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:25,920
what we consider shot
composition.

1422
01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:28,560
But like, I think when I'm
talking about Spielberg, I think

1423
01:25:28,840 --> 01:25:32,680
I think of it almost as like
shot choreography versus what

1424
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:35,920
wise was doing a lot, which was
stationary camera.

1425
01:25:36,720 --> 01:25:40,360
The whole background of the
frame is a gigantic tenement

1426
01:25:40,360 --> 01:25:44,080
building.
We will see, you know, coming up

1427
01:25:44,080 --> 01:25:47,640
from behind a mound of rubble, 3
sharks.

1428
01:25:47,720 --> 01:25:50,080
And it will be the coolest
framed shot you'll ever see.

1429
01:25:50,440 --> 01:25:53,480
And I think that there's like,
there are moments in this movie

1430
01:25:53,480 --> 01:25:56,480
where I'm like, I'm with you.
Like he does stop moving the

1431
01:25:56,480 --> 01:26:00,080
camera and it adds it adds
weight to those moments because

1432
01:26:00,080 --> 01:26:03,720
you almost notice that we have
stopped for it's like we've been

1433
01:26:03,720 --> 01:26:05,920
hurtling through this thing.
Why are we stopping right now?

1434
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:07,280
What do I need to pay attention
to?

1435
01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:10,920
I also think that there's like a
level of confidence that someone

1436
01:26:10,920 --> 01:26:15,400
like a Robert Wise doesn't
typically get credited for to

1437
01:26:15,400 --> 01:26:18,000
just be like, you know what,
we're going to make the coolest

1438
01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:20,000
shot of all time.
It's going to be inside of this

1439
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:24,080
tree line in the Sound of Music
with Maria just weaving through

1440
01:26:24,080 --> 01:26:25,920
these trees.
Like it's just, it's freaking

1441
01:26:25,920 --> 01:26:28,960
gorgeous.
And the the level, like the

1442
01:26:28,960 --> 01:26:32,400
interplay between what's
stationary and what's moving, I

1443
01:26:32,400 --> 01:26:37,280
think is just as dynamic as what
Spielberg does by, like, moving

1444
01:26:37,280 --> 01:26:39,160
the camera through a crowd of
people.

1445
01:26:39,640 --> 01:26:43,000
Yeah, This is why.
I'm, I'm not coming in here

1446
01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:47,360
being like, oh, the original or
sorry, the, the Spielberg 1 is

1447
01:26:47,360 --> 01:26:51,520
better because it wouldn't exist
without the original.

1448
01:26:51,760 --> 01:26:53,600
And I don't, I don't think it
replaces it.

1449
01:26:53,960 --> 01:26:57,640
But then there are things that
you look at where I'm like, Oh

1450
01:26:57,640 --> 01:27:05,000
yeah, I like the Spielberg.
Version of G Officer Krupke is.

1451
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:10,200
Just like I I think so much
better and so much more fun than

1452
01:27:10,200 --> 01:27:13,920
the original 1.
Yeah, it's.

1453
01:27:14,400 --> 01:27:16,680
It's that's.
Dude and and I.

1454
01:27:16,680 --> 01:27:18,800
Will you know what?
I have one person on my side

1455
01:27:18,800 --> 01:27:23,000
with this, Your friend Sidant.
I read his review because I was

1456
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:24,800
like, I want to see what he said
about this.

1457
01:27:25,080 --> 01:27:28,520
He also agreed with me that like
something gets lost in the

1458
01:27:28,520 --> 01:27:31,400
Officer Krupke number here and I
don't and and you know, in his

1459
01:27:31,400 --> 01:27:34,200
review, this is something that
like, I don't know if it's a

1460
01:27:34,200 --> 01:27:36,360
casting thing or if it's a
Spielberg thing.

1461
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:41,400
He makes great note of the fact
that there's not a level of

1462
01:27:41,400 --> 01:27:45,600
individuality to The Jets and
Sharks the way there are the way

1463
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:49,480
there is in the 61 version where
those guys have very distinct

1464
01:27:49,480 --> 01:27:51,200
faces.
I know what every single one of

1465
01:27:51,200 --> 01:27:54,080
those people looks like.
And so by the time you get to

1466
01:27:54,080 --> 01:27:58,440
like cool or whatever it is, you
fully know each of their

1467
01:27:58,440 --> 01:28:00,560
personalities.
And I felt like this time

1468
01:28:00,560 --> 01:28:03,600
around, Officer Krupke was just
like it.

1469
01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:06,440
It was just missing something to
me.

1470
01:28:06,480 --> 01:28:08,680
And Brad, I'd like to hear your
take 'cause I think you actually

1471
01:28:08,680 --> 01:28:11,480
mentioned Officer Krupke to me
when we were talking about it

1472
01:28:11,480 --> 01:28:14,800
yesterday.
I think Officer Krupke and I.

1473
01:28:14,800 --> 01:28:17,600
Am not as familiar with the
original 61 film.

1474
01:28:18,160 --> 01:28:23,000
To me it felt like they tweaked
it just a little bit so that

1475
01:28:23,000 --> 01:28:26,960
rather than in the original
where it feels like all the

1476
01:28:26,960 --> 01:28:30,000
different characters they
introduce themselves to, you

1477
01:28:30,000 --> 01:28:32,240
know, there's the judge and the
psychologist and the social

1478
01:28:32,240 --> 01:28:39,120
worker and so on, in the 61
version it feels like they are.

1479
01:28:39,200 --> 01:28:42,240
All saying the same.
Thing about the kids the teens

1480
01:28:43,000 --> 01:28:47,520
whereas in this one in the 2021
version it feels more accurate

1481
01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:56,400
to real life the the real life
justice foster you know, teen

1482
01:28:56,960 --> 01:28:58,640
legal.
System, if you will.

1483
01:28:59,040 --> 01:29:01,280
Where?
You know, the judge says, oh,

1484
01:29:01,280 --> 01:29:02,600
well, they don't need to be in
jail.

1485
01:29:02,600 --> 01:29:05,560
They need to see a psychologist.
And the psychologist says, oh,

1486
01:29:05,560 --> 01:29:07,800
well, they they need to see a
social worker.

1487
01:29:07,800 --> 01:29:10,360
And the social worker says, oh,
no, they need to go to jail.

1488
01:29:10,360 --> 01:29:15,440
And and it feels way more
accurate to the dysfunction of

1489
01:29:15,440 --> 01:29:19,240
our governmental system in
trying to help kids.

1490
01:29:19,720 --> 01:29:24,440
And so I I really thought that
that small change paired with

1491
01:29:24,640 --> 01:29:29,120
the a little more dynamism in
the movement of the camera in

1492
01:29:29,120 --> 01:29:33,920
the in the dance.
I also don't as soon as you said

1493
01:29:33,920 --> 01:29:35,440
that the characters in the
original. 1.

1494
01:29:35,440 --> 01:29:37,960
Felt more distinct.
I was like, yeah, because I

1495
01:29:37,960 --> 01:29:41,520
don't care about the main
characters in the movie, whereas

1496
01:29:41,520 --> 01:29:45,040
in this one I care so much about
the classic problem.

1497
01:29:45,040 --> 01:29:47,920
Too.
Like, you know, I think we had

1498
01:29:47,920 --> 01:29:49,080
this.
Conversation, Brad, even.

1499
01:29:49,080 --> 01:29:52,000
With like Beauty and the Beast,
there are just certain stories

1500
01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:55,360
where your main characters are
kind of fundamentally the most

1501
01:29:55,360 --> 01:29:59,480
boring characters in the movie.
And like it, it's the, it's the

1502
01:29:59,480 --> 01:30:01,160
supporting characters that make
the movie.

1503
01:30:01,160 --> 01:30:03,280
And that was especially true in
the 61 version.

1504
01:30:03,680 --> 01:30:05,280
I think to some extent it's true
here.

1505
01:30:05,280 --> 01:30:12,640
I I cannot allow you to.
Impugn my favorite 90s Disney

1506
01:30:12,640 --> 01:30:16,360
film I I have never once.
Said.

1507
01:30:16,840 --> 01:30:19,520
That the main characters of
Beauty and the Beast are

1508
01:30:19,520 --> 01:30:22,880
extraordinarily boring.
You might have said that, and I

1509
01:30:22,880 --> 01:30:25,200
will allow you to have your own
wrong opinions.

1510
01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:28,640
I just needed to be known that I
did not say.

1511
01:30:28,640 --> 01:30:32,160
All right.
Well, for the record, yeah, Brad

1512
01:30:32,160 --> 01:30:35,320
prefers to spend time.
With the beasts whining

1513
01:30:35,320 --> 01:30:38,920
throughout that whole film.
But let let me let me steer us

1514
01:30:38,920 --> 01:30:40,440
into this.
I think it's time to think 1.

1515
01:30:40,440 --> 01:30:43,720
Can I say 1 brief thing?
About Officer Krupke, please.

1516
01:30:44,800 --> 01:30:46,760
I do.
Agree.

1517
01:30:46,840 --> 01:30:52,200
That by the other members of The
Jets and the Sharks do feel a

1518
01:30:52,200 --> 01:30:56,240
little more they they pop a bit
more in the 60s version.

1519
01:30:56,560 --> 01:30:59,480
I totally feel they feel a
little sludgy in this.

1520
01:30:59,480 --> 01:31:02,480
Version they they they do as
much as like there are.

1521
01:31:02,480 --> 01:31:05,600
Some like good faces there.
I can't tell you most of their

1522
01:31:05,600 --> 01:31:11,000
names.
I, I will say, and I think this

1523
01:31:11,000 --> 01:31:14,680
ties into what Brad was saying
about Officer Krupke is that

1524
01:31:16,080 --> 01:31:18,120
they just feel.
More.

1525
01:31:18,720 --> 01:31:25,440
Believably, like actual gangs in
this one, like this, like this

1526
01:31:25,440 --> 01:31:27,480
sequence is set in a police
station.

1527
01:31:27,880 --> 01:31:30,760
It's like, yeah, like, yeah,
like even just little things

1528
01:31:30,760 --> 01:31:34,640
like, oh, Riff has a couple
tattoos, stuff like that where

1529
01:31:34,640 --> 01:31:39,360
I'm like, you know, oh, I
believe that these guys actually

1530
01:31:39,360 --> 01:31:46,080
now, you know, have, you know,
have been arrested multiple

1531
01:31:46,080 --> 01:31:48,880
times.
Actually, again, these are not

1532
01:31:48,880 --> 01:31:53,480
just like dancing, like, you
know, colourfully costumed,

1533
01:31:54,160 --> 01:31:56,080
quote UN quote like gang
members.

1534
01:31:56,080 --> 01:31:57,920
It's like, Oh no, these are
actually people who have like,

1535
01:31:58,280 --> 01:32:02,240
you know, who are like, like,
you know, like been like, you

1536
01:32:02,240 --> 01:32:04,800
know, falling through the system
and stuff like that.

1537
01:32:04,800 --> 01:32:09,520
And so the stuff that that that
G Officer Krupke like is about

1538
01:32:10,240 --> 01:32:13,200
like it does actually feel like
it's more directly connected to

1539
01:32:13,240 --> 01:32:17,600
these characters as as they're
presented here, even though I

1540
01:32:17,600 --> 01:32:21,400
don't feel like I know these
guys as well as the ones in the

1541
01:32:21,400 --> 01:32:24,040
60s film.
But also, and maybe it's just

1542
01:32:24,040 --> 01:32:25,920
that I've watched the movie a
bunch of times and I was just

1543
01:32:25,920 --> 01:32:27,400
noticing it like on this
rewatch.

1544
01:32:27,400 --> 01:32:32,720
I just think the choreography of
that number here and the way

1545
01:32:32,720 --> 01:32:36,800
it's shot and the way it uses
just the set of the police

1546
01:32:36,800 --> 01:32:40,640
station is just so fun.
Dude when they lift up the

1547
01:32:40,640 --> 01:32:42,880
bench.
And use the bottom of the bench

1548
01:32:42,880 --> 01:32:45,800
as the bars.
It's so freaking good dude.

1549
01:32:45,800 --> 01:32:47,800
It's great.
And and also that one part where

1550
01:32:47,800 --> 01:32:50,240
there's the one.
Woman who is also just holding

1551
01:32:50,240 --> 01:32:55,240
there what is cuts to her just
watching them like what I do

1552
01:32:55,240 --> 01:32:58,120
like the thing of without ever
like drawing a lot of attention

1553
01:32:58,120 --> 01:33:01,160
to it.
It's a rare thing in a musical,

1554
01:33:01,360 --> 01:33:05,000
but it is almost as if like
like.

1555
01:33:05,520 --> 01:33:09,000
A bystander is there being.
Like, are they singing and

1556
01:33:09,000 --> 01:33:12,040
dancing right now?
Yeah, like it.

1557
01:33:12,040 --> 01:33:14,360
Well, and early in the.
Movie there's a there's like a.

1558
01:33:14,360 --> 01:33:20,880
Diegetic moment where Bernardo
is singing and he, he, and is it

1559
01:33:20,880 --> 01:33:24,400
Krupke or what's the
lieutenant's name?

1560
01:33:24,400 --> 01:33:25,160
Shrank.
Shrank.

1561
01:33:25,160 --> 01:33:28,520
Sorry, I think it's Shrank.
He goes, Oh, he's a boxer and a

1562
01:33:28,520 --> 01:33:31,320
crooner, and you're like, oh,
like this is a this is a

1563
01:33:31,320 --> 01:33:33,680
diagenic moment.
He's really singing in a

1564
01:33:33,680 --> 01:33:35,040
musical.
Is that?

1565
01:33:35,240 --> 01:33:37,920
Is that the part after?
The prologue when they just

1566
01:33:37,920 --> 01:33:39,880
start and I, I don't know what
the name of the song is, but

1567
01:33:39,880 --> 01:33:42,720
when they're just sort of like
singing the the song in Spanish

1568
01:33:42,720 --> 01:33:46,160
national anthem, yeah and which.
Again, is just.

1569
01:33:46,160 --> 01:33:48,040
One of those little touches
where it's like, oh, right,

1570
01:33:48,040 --> 01:33:51,000
yeah, these, these do.
These are believably immigrants.

1571
01:33:51,000 --> 01:33:55,080
And The Jets are explicitly
presented here as they are

1572
01:33:55,240 --> 01:33:59,920
racist in a way where in the 60s
one, it is much more like, oh,

1573
01:33:59,920 --> 01:34:01,800
right.
It's just it's two rival gangs.

1574
01:34:01,800 --> 01:34:05,360
It's like, no, these guys are
just harassing immigrants.

1575
01:34:05,720 --> 01:34:09,320
Yeah, Yep.
Can I 100% I I?

1576
01:34:09,320 --> 01:34:10,600
Want to talk?
More about that later.

1577
01:34:10,600 --> 01:34:11,760
Bob I.
Don't want to interrupt you

1578
01:34:11,760 --> 01:34:12,440
though.
I know you.

1579
01:34:12,560 --> 01:34:15,000
You wanted to go.
No, Brad, I I think that's the

1580
01:34:15,000 --> 01:34:17,240
perfect thing to do 'cause I, I.
Have something to say on that as

1581
01:34:17,240 --> 01:34:19,080
well.
Let's let's make sure we talk

1582
01:34:19,080 --> 01:34:21,640
about the cast though, because I
feel like we're running a little

1583
01:34:21,640 --> 01:34:23,560
bit long because of my Yanish
takes.

1584
01:34:24,320 --> 01:34:28,120
I I will shut up, I promise.
No, no, it's not.

1585
01:34:28,640 --> 01:34:29,920
It's not you.
It's me.

1586
01:34:29,920 --> 01:34:33,360
Triggering.
You I I think that maybe the

1587
01:34:33,360 --> 01:34:34,040
most.
Fun.

1588
01:34:34,040 --> 01:34:36,680
Way to do this is like, yes,
let's give some small notes on

1589
01:34:36,680 --> 01:34:40,520
each person, but I want to just
say like, are we picking the 61

1590
01:34:40,560 --> 01:34:43,360
person who played this character
or the 21 person who played this

1591
01:34:43,360 --> 01:34:46,800
character?
And I think we have to have the

1592
01:34:46,800 --> 01:34:50,120
the briefest of disclaimers
about the Ansel Elgort stuff.

1593
01:34:50,320 --> 01:34:52,680
We've talked about it before
with Baby Driver.

1594
01:34:52,840 --> 01:34:57,400
Ansel Elgort seems like a real
creep, which is in many ways a

1595
01:34:57,400 --> 01:35:01,240
bummer because I think a lot of
people now, now that he is like

1596
01:35:01,240 --> 01:35:06,800
an established creep, want to
kind of crap on his sometimes

1597
01:35:06,800 --> 01:35:10,480
wooden seeming acting style.
I've always liked Ansel Elgort.

1598
01:35:10,600 --> 01:35:13,040
I will, I will go out on a limb
and say I like him in this

1599
01:35:13,040 --> 01:35:14,960
movie.
I think that hey, Tony's given

1600
01:35:14,960 --> 01:35:18,880
much more to do in this movie,
but it's it's not a secret that

1601
01:35:18,880 --> 01:35:22,480
Richard Baymer in the original
is just not really that good of

1602
01:35:22,480 --> 01:35:24,680
an actor.
He's a pretty face and he is

1603
01:35:24,680 --> 01:35:27,280
he's a gorgeous man, but like,
you know, that's about all he

1604
01:35:27,280 --> 01:35:29,400
is.
He's also not even doing his his

1605
01:35:29,400 --> 01:35:31,440
singing in that.
Movie No.

1606
01:35:32,640 --> 01:35:35,960
So like, I think this is a
pretty easy Ansel Elgort

1607
01:35:35,960 --> 01:35:40,520
victory, especially when you
consider like I, I, I watched

1608
01:35:40,520 --> 01:35:45,160
Cool and then paused it and
rewatched the entire number

1609
01:35:45,160 --> 01:35:49,600
again because he is basically
having a dance battle with Mike

1610
01:35:49,600 --> 01:35:53,400
Feist, who is a trained Broadway
performer.

1611
01:35:53,840 --> 01:35:57,800
Ansel Elgort, Not a singer, but
does a great job singing well.

1612
01:35:57,800 --> 01:35:59,560
He went to La Guardia High
School.

1613
01:36:00,640 --> 01:36:05,240
He's from Manhattan.
But no, Elgort has been a like

1614
01:36:05,480 --> 01:36:09,560
musical theatre like trained guy
for he wasn't like a Broadway

1615
01:36:09,560 --> 01:36:13,960
star, but I but it is the thing
of like in cool.

1616
01:36:14,920 --> 01:36:17,520
I think he and and you, you see
some of it in baby driver as

1617
01:36:17,520 --> 01:36:19,840
well.
He moves so well.

1618
01:36:19,840 --> 01:36:22,240
He's also very tall, has long
limbs.

1619
01:36:22,600 --> 01:36:26,360
But then I'm like, damn, I I
wish he got another dance

1620
01:36:26,360 --> 01:36:30,160
sequence because he is and and
and you know, he has like he

1621
01:36:30,160 --> 01:36:32,440
gets to to move in something's
coming.

1622
01:36:32,960 --> 01:36:38,000
But I do think he he's just a
he's a he's a physically.

1623
01:36:38,000 --> 01:36:41,440
I think he's very good on screen
and I wish he got to do more of

1624
01:36:41,440 --> 01:36:43,400
it because I think he's very
good and cool.

1625
01:36:43,400 --> 01:36:48,040
It is something again, putting
aside, you know, allegations or

1626
01:36:48,040 --> 01:36:50,840
whatever, just looking at his
performance, I feel like he's so

1627
01:36:50,840 --> 01:36:53,360
often brought up in this movie
is like, Oh, everyone's great,

1628
01:36:53,360 --> 01:36:57,080
Just a bummer.
L Gord is there like sucking in

1629
01:36:57,080 --> 01:37:02,080
the middle of I'm like, I think,
I think he's maybe like.

1630
01:37:05,000 --> 01:37:09,280
Of the of the principles I.
Think he's maybe by default the

1631
01:37:09,280 --> 01:37:13,200
weakest, and I think he is
totally so I think he's pretty

1632
01:37:13,200 --> 01:37:17,000
good in this movie.
I think Tony is the nature of

1633
01:37:17,000 --> 01:37:20,200
the character, always the least
interesting character in the

1634
01:37:20,200 --> 01:37:23,480
movie.
And and I think I think he's

1635
01:37:23,480 --> 01:37:25,640
pretty good.
I think look, you know, he has

1636
01:37:25,640 --> 01:37:28,400
several big songs.
I I think he hits them all.

1637
01:37:28,400 --> 01:37:31,240
I believe the Tony Maria
relationship.

1638
01:37:31,440 --> 01:37:35,080
He he works for me and I I you
know, like, like you just said,

1639
01:37:35,080 --> 01:37:37,520
Bob, I think he has an upgrade
over Richard Beamer.

1640
01:37:37,920 --> 01:37:40,400
Yeah, IA 100% He I would put him
at.

1641
01:37:40,400 --> 01:37:44,240
Like AB, like he's a really
strong B.

1642
01:37:44,240 --> 01:37:49,440
Nothing about his performance
draws me out of the experience

1643
01:37:49,440 --> 01:37:53,600
of the film.
Also a quick Fact Check, both

1644
01:37:53,840 --> 01:37:57,240
Timmy C and Ansel Algort
LaGuardia High School.

1645
01:37:58,120 --> 01:38:01,560
Very good.
Patrick, Hey, you know I'm here

1646
01:38:01,560 --> 01:38:02,840
to.
Give New York trivia.

1647
01:38:03,840 --> 01:38:07,240
That's right.
Rachel Zeigler is an

1648
01:38:07,240 --> 01:38:08,120
interesting.
One for me.

1649
01:38:08,120 --> 01:38:11,160
She's also now become the
subject of like way too much

1650
01:38:11,160 --> 01:38:14,120
online hate for seemingly no
reason, just for existing and

1651
01:38:14,120 --> 01:38:17,560
being Snow White.
And I will say that I would

1652
01:38:17,560 --> 01:38:22,960
choose Rachel Zegler over
Natalie Wood for 95% of this

1653
01:38:22,960 --> 01:38:24,680
movie.
Obviously Natalie Wood didn't do

1654
01:38:24,680 --> 01:38:26,800
her own singing.
Rachel Zegler is a phenomenal

1655
01:38:26,800 --> 01:38:31,040
talent and I think a a better
actress for most of the movie

1656
01:38:32,200 --> 01:38:37,160
except for the key final scene
when Tony dies.

1657
01:38:37,200 --> 01:38:40,400
I think that like, she's a
little green still.

1658
01:38:40,440 --> 01:38:44,440
And I think it shows in that
moment where, you know, I came

1659
01:38:44,440 --> 01:38:47,200
on the last episode and I raved
about Natalie Wood where I was

1660
01:38:47,200 --> 01:38:49,600
like, I, I kind of didn't like
her until that last scene.

1661
01:38:49,600 --> 01:38:52,400
She freaking nailed it.
And so like, that's the only

1662
01:38:52,400 --> 01:38:54,960
part where I would say I think
Natalie Wood actually kind of

1663
01:38:54,960 --> 01:38:58,560
beat Rachel Zeigler for me.
You can probably just CGI her

1664
01:38:58,560 --> 01:39:00,440
in.
Just kind of scrub it in.

1665
01:39:00,560 --> 01:39:03,880
Yeah, like deep fake, right?
Yeah, there's also the thing

1666
01:39:03,880 --> 01:39:05,400
worth pointing out.
And we'll.

1667
01:39:05,480 --> 01:39:08,120
We'll bring it up when we
discuss Bernardo as well, where

1668
01:39:08,120 --> 01:39:14,960
it's like, you know, 1 is like a
Latina actress and and 1 is a a

1669
01:39:14,960 --> 01:39:18,680
white person basically for sure.
So there's that as well.

1670
01:39:18,680 --> 01:39:23,040
But like, I, I think, look, I, I
also, I don't know Rachel at

1671
01:39:23,040 --> 01:39:25,720
all, but we have some mutual
friends.

1672
01:39:25,720 --> 01:39:29,400
And so by all accounts, like,
I'll just say really lovely

1673
01:39:29,400 --> 01:39:32,960
person.
But I, I, and I actually, I, I

1674
01:39:32,960 --> 01:39:35,680
became a fan of her before this
movie came out because she

1675
01:39:36,360 --> 01:39:40,360
appeared as a guest on, on my
friends have a comedy show

1676
01:39:40,360 --> 01:39:42,160
called the George Lucas Talk
Show.

1677
01:39:42,560 --> 01:39:46,640
And she was a guest, She's a
recurring guest on that show.

1678
01:39:46,920 --> 01:39:50,000
And I I was like, Oh my, she's
so cool and like she hasn't even

1679
01:39:50,000 --> 01:39:53,680
and like I haven't even seen her
act yet, but I think it like

1680
01:39:53,680 --> 01:39:55,200
what?
Just watching this again

1681
01:39:55,200 --> 01:39:57,000
yesterday.
I'm just like, I think she's

1682
01:39:57,000 --> 01:40:00,840
like, this is like.
Kind of a.

1683
01:40:00,840 --> 01:40:03,440
Revelatory like debut
performance.

1684
01:40:03,440 --> 01:40:09,160
I think I I she like you, you
love to see an introducing

1685
01:40:09,160 --> 01:40:11,800
credit, which we don't get very
often.

1686
01:40:12,200 --> 01:40:15,680
And I'm just like, right.
This is just like an instant

1687
01:40:15,680 --> 01:40:19,720
star.
She just nails it and is so

1688
01:40:19,720 --> 01:40:22,280
good.
And I, I, I do agree that I, I

1689
01:40:22,280 --> 01:40:27,200
think the one, the one places I
think Natalie Wood is stronger

1690
01:40:27,200 --> 01:40:30,480
in that final scene.
But in general, I'm like, yeah,

1691
01:40:30,680 --> 01:40:33,360
I'm, I'm giving it to Ziegler
Absolutely, for sure.

1692
01:40:35,240 --> 01:40:37,640
Brad any.
Any Ziegler comment you guys?

1693
01:40:37,720 --> 01:40:40,000
You guys nailed it.
I I can't add anything.

1694
01:40:40,000 --> 01:40:45,080
I truly I as I was watching it
so many times throughout.

1695
01:40:45,120 --> 01:40:47,760
I thought that.
Her and Al Gore's chemistry was

1696
01:40:47,760 --> 01:40:53,120
great, brought a brought the
relationship to life, but also

1697
01:40:53,120 --> 01:40:59,200
her and Anita, Ariana Dubose,
like them two together, just had

1698
01:40:59,200 --> 01:41:03,480
an electricity to the way that
they had this sisterly

1699
01:41:03,480 --> 01:41:08,840
relationship that I I thought
Zeigler really was incredible.

1700
01:41:10,600 --> 01:41:13,040
OK, we've talked.
About Riff quite a bit, so I.

1701
01:41:13,040 --> 01:41:16,240
Think this is this could be a
very quick who you picking

1702
01:41:16,240 --> 01:41:19,920
Tamblin or Feist?
Go Feist.

1703
01:41:20,080 --> 01:41:23,240
Feist.
I take.

1704
01:41:23,240 --> 01:41:25,280
Feist as well, but it's close
like I don't.

1705
01:41:25,280 --> 01:41:27,480
I don't hold it against Tamblyn.
He was really good.

1706
01:41:27,480 --> 01:41:29,640
If Tamblyn had some tattoos,
would you pick him it?

1707
01:41:32,040 --> 01:41:33,960
Is.
I I, I think, I think.

1708
01:41:33,960 --> 01:41:36,560
Bobby, you said it.
Earlier that just Like Tamblyn

1709
01:41:36,560 --> 01:41:41,080
just didn't have as meaty
material to play.

1710
01:41:41,080 --> 01:41:44,440
And So what?
Feist has more to work with, but

1711
01:41:44,760 --> 01:41:49,280
Riff is just so much more
compelling as a character.

1712
01:41:49,640 --> 01:41:52,800
Like Tamblyn is great to watch.
He's a great dancer, love to see

1713
01:41:52,800 --> 01:41:55,720
him and anything and it it's
just like like Feist is like a

1714
01:41:55,720 --> 01:42:00,600
fully realized character who is
just like, he's like electric in

1715
01:42:00,600 --> 01:42:02,000
this movie.
Yeah.

1716
01:42:02,840 --> 01:42:05,160
Now Bernardo is a really tough
one for me and.

1717
01:42:05,320 --> 01:42:09,600
We obviously are getting back to
the like George Shakiris, a very

1718
01:42:09,600 --> 01:42:13,120
white person in very brown face
in the original, right?

1719
01:42:13,120 --> 01:42:17,520
Like he played riff on the West
End, was found there and then

1720
01:42:17,520 --> 01:42:21,240
offered Bernardo.
And so like, yes, I, I, I get

1721
01:42:21,240 --> 01:42:23,920
that.
What is the difficult thing for

1722
01:42:23,920 --> 01:42:27,200
me is that they play this
character in 2 completely

1723
01:42:27,200 --> 01:42:29,720
different ways.
And it's because Kushner gives

1724
01:42:29,960 --> 01:42:34,800
Bernardo like the boxing back
story where Shakira says

1725
01:42:34,800 --> 01:42:36,680
Bernardo is like a, he's a
charmer.

1726
01:42:36,680 --> 01:42:39,440
Like he's just, he, he wins you
over.

1727
01:42:39,720 --> 01:42:43,280
And he is so charismatic.
He's and this version of

1728
01:42:43,280 --> 01:42:47,400
Bernardo is like he's a hot
head, but you also like you

1729
01:42:47,400 --> 01:42:52,040
completely understand why he
feels so defensive about the

1730
01:42:52,040 --> 01:42:54,640
people that he loves.
And so I think they're both

1731
01:42:54,640 --> 01:42:57,600
really excellent.
And and Brad, I'd love to hear

1732
01:42:57,600 --> 01:42:59,760
if you had to pick. 1.
Who would you go with?

1733
01:42:59,760 --> 01:43:01,720
Because I really do think
there's an argument for both of

1734
01:43:01,720 --> 01:43:06,360
them.
Yeah, I think that 2021.

1735
01:43:06,360 --> 01:43:11,600
Bernardo has a little more umph
to his character there.

1736
01:43:11,600 --> 01:43:16,000
I think he I think the character
works better as a charmer.

1737
01:43:16,920 --> 01:43:20,760
And so I like I think that's why
I would lean towards Shakira's,

1738
01:43:21,200 --> 01:43:26,040
but I I don't have a that's not
a strong take from me.

1739
01:43:26,360 --> 01:43:30,280
But I yeah, I do think that the
character just works better as a

1740
01:43:30,280 --> 01:43:35,920
smooth talking when people over
with his charm kind of guy than

1741
01:43:35,920 --> 01:43:40,720
this stocky like I'm going to
beat the crap out of you now.

1742
01:43:40,720 --> 01:43:46,960
I will say the one place where
that like is lights out when

1743
01:43:47,440 --> 01:43:53,680
Ansel Al Gore is standing at the
at the brawl and he just takes

1744
01:43:53,680 --> 01:43:58,240
the punches and he takes like 8
or 9 punches in a row.

1745
01:43:58,520 --> 01:44:02,560
You feel that because of who is
playing Bernardo.

1746
01:44:02,760 --> 01:44:06,840
And I do think that that adds to
the the elements at the end of

1747
01:44:06,840 --> 01:44:08,480
the film there.
Patrick who we going with

1748
01:44:08,600 --> 01:44:10,360
Alvarez or Shakira.
This is tough.

1749
01:44:10,440 --> 01:44:13,200
I I.
Think I'm I think I have to go

1750
01:44:13,200 --> 01:44:16,840
Alvarez.
It also again, it just, it just

1751
01:44:16,840 --> 01:44:20,120
feels wrong to me to be like,
I'm gonna pick a guy in brown

1752
01:44:20,120 --> 01:44:23,720
face.
I just like, I I don't want to

1753
01:44:23,720 --> 01:44:27,840
get cancelled for that look.
I despite the problematic nature

1754
01:44:27,840 --> 01:44:31,320
of the casting, I love Shakira's
in the original and especially

1755
01:44:31,320 --> 01:44:37,360
like as a dancer like in in
America, which I think is, is I

1756
01:44:37,360 --> 01:44:39,360
think my favorite number in both
films.

1757
01:44:39,880 --> 01:44:44,440
I just the way Shakira's moves,
it's just one of my favorite

1758
01:44:44,440 --> 01:44:47,800
things in cinema.
I love that.

1759
01:44:47,920 --> 01:44:52,520
But Jakiris is my favorite stuff
that he has in the in that movie

1760
01:44:52,520 --> 01:44:56,840
is mostly when he's not talking.
It's mostly just him as a

1761
01:44:56,880 --> 01:45:01,840
physical presence and just like
his his really like his great

1762
01:45:01,880 --> 01:45:07,680
eyes and his dancing.
And in the 2021 film with

1763
01:45:07,680 --> 01:45:12,480
Alvarez, I'm like, I believe his
relation, his protectiveness of

1764
01:45:12,480 --> 01:45:17,640
his little sister and his
relationship with Anita like

1765
01:45:18,000 --> 01:45:22,520
more and and his protectiveness
for his whole community that

1766
01:45:22,520 --> 01:45:26,760
comes through so strongly there,
which I think just again deepens

1767
01:45:26,760 --> 01:45:29,520
the entire film.
And so I've got to go Alvarez.

1768
01:45:30,760 --> 01:45:33,120
There you go.
All right, last one and then we

1769
01:45:33,120 --> 01:45:35,800
can kind of touch on.
Minor characters, if we want to,

1770
01:45:36,080 --> 01:45:38,640
is Anita.
Now, this is an incredibly

1771
01:45:38,640 --> 01:45:41,960
difficult one because we're
talking about two people who

1772
01:45:41,960 --> 01:45:44,720
both won the Oscar for their
performances.

1773
01:45:46,080 --> 01:45:48,840
I think that I will throw the
gauntlet down by saying.

1774
01:45:48,840 --> 01:45:53,640
Ariana Dubose.
Is incredibly good in this

1775
01:45:53,640 --> 01:45:57,560
movie, but I think the most
revelatory thing about

1776
01:45:57,560 --> 01:46:01,280
revisiting. 61.
West Side Story for me was

1777
01:46:01,280 --> 01:46:06,480
watching the ways that Rita
Moreno as an actress, whether

1778
01:46:06,480 --> 01:46:14,560
it's within a song or during
dialogue, is given a very tied

1779
01:46:14,560 --> 01:46:20,840
to its moment written character
and adds so much color to that

1780
01:46:20,840 --> 01:46:24,600
character that it's like I I
know for a fact that if Tony

1781
01:46:24,600 --> 01:46:28,400
Kushner handed Rita Moreno this
script in 61, we would have

1782
01:46:28,400 --> 01:46:31,760
gotten a performance that is
equivalent to what Ariana Dubose

1783
01:46:31,760 --> 01:46:35,560
gave in this movie.
I don't know if I put Ariana

1784
01:46:35,560 --> 01:46:41,240
Dubose in the 61 version if she
could have made a character that

1785
01:46:41,240 --> 01:46:45,320
had less to do on the page as
compelling as Rita Moreno did.

1786
01:46:45,320 --> 01:46:48,960
So I'm I'm going to have to go
with the OG on this one.

1787
01:46:50,040 --> 01:46:52,960
Same.
Yeah, they're both.

1788
01:46:53,440 --> 01:46:56,000
Fantastic, they're both.
Stand outs in each movie.

1789
01:46:56,160 --> 01:47:02,720
But Moreno is the stand out in
the 61 film, like hands down.

1790
01:47:02,720 --> 01:47:07,520
And also, you know, bonus points
for be being so good as a

1791
01:47:07,520 --> 01:47:11,040
completely different character,
like in her 90s in the 2021

1792
01:47:11,040 --> 01:47:16,680
film, right.
Yeah, Rita Bruno, just great,

1793
01:47:17,200 --> 01:47:20,440
really great.
Yeah, in in both films she is

1794
01:47:20,440 --> 01:47:25,640
better than the person.
In the other film, that's true.

1795
01:47:25,640 --> 01:47:28,520
She she, she is way.
Better than Doc, I'll give her

1796
01:47:28,520 --> 01:47:29,360
that much.
For sure.

1797
01:47:31,160 --> 01:47:33,160
Yeah.
Rita Moreno Is Doc better than

1798
01:47:33,160 --> 01:47:34,960
Doc?
Rita Moreno is.

1799
01:47:34,960 --> 01:47:39,560
Anita better than Anita?
I'll take it.

1800
01:47:40,040 --> 01:47:42,360
I I will say I.
Was very happy to see Corey

1801
01:47:42,360 --> 01:47:44,720
Stahl.
Show up as Lieutenant Shrink.

1802
01:47:45,040 --> 01:47:49,600
He is a super underutilized
actor who I fell in love with as

1803
01:47:49,600 --> 01:47:51,360
an actor when he was on House of
Cards.

1804
01:47:51,360 --> 01:47:53,640
I thought he was just freaking
phenomenal on that show.

1805
01:47:54,040 --> 01:47:57,600
And then all he's really done in
Hollywood seems to be shitty Ant

1806
01:47:57,600 --> 01:48:00,840
man movies and I just wish that
we gave my guy more more

1807
01:48:00,840 --> 01:48:03,160
chances.
I I love Corey Stoll he should

1808
01:48:03,160 --> 01:48:07,600
be in way more stuff.
He's he's an alum of the college

1809
01:48:07,600 --> 01:48:11,520
I went to.
And so, OK, no shout out guy who

1810
01:48:11,520 --> 01:48:13,520
went to College in Ohio.
That's right.

1811
01:48:13,960 --> 01:48:16,920
But I all of us.
But yeah, I, I actually, when I

1812
01:48:16,920 --> 01:48:20,720
rewatched it for this, I was
like, I forgot he was in it and

1813
01:48:20,920 --> 01:48:23,720
I was like, hey there, there he
is with hair.

1814
01:48:24,680 --> 01:48:26,720
He kind of feels a great
hairpiece.

1815
01:48:26,720 --> 01:48:28,640
I have never seen him in.
Anything he kind.

1816
01:48:28,640 --> 01:48:31,040
Of reminded me of like a.
Slightly taller.

1817
01:48:31,480 --> 01:48:33,680
A little bit like lankier Tom
Hardy.

1818
01:48:35,880 --> 01:48:37,800
Interesting.
I don't know if that vibes.

1819
01:48:37,800 --> 01:48:39,560
With you guys, but.
That's like I found myself a

1820
01:48:39,560 --> 01:48:40,520
few.
Times being like.

1821
01:48:41,080 --> 01:48:47,200
Wait, that's not Tom Hardy.
Well, come on, Brad, I Corey

1822
01:48:47,200 --> 01:48:48,360
soul is great.
Does your?

1823
01:48:48,600 --> 01:48:51,800
Deranged take Yeah, does.
I mean, he's, he's like a.

1824
01:48:51,800 --> 01:48:53,280
Great.
Like.

1825
01:48:53,600 --> 01:48:56,240
You know, New York actor does a
lot of theatre.

1826
01:48:56,240 --> 01:49:02,200
He's on a lot of TV shows.
He is I he's never not good.

1827
01:49:04,320 --> 01:49:06,400
Love it.
Brian Darcy James shows up.

1828
01:49:06,440 --> 01:49:08,200
In a thankless role as Officer
Krepke.

1829
01:49:08,920 --> 01:49:11,640
Good to see him again.
We've only talked about him in

1830
01:49:11,760 --> 01:49:14,640
in his supporting turn in
Spotlight on this.

1831
01:49:14,720 --> 01:49:17,160
He's so good in Spotlight.
Nice to see him again.

1832
01:49:17,320 --> 01:49:19,000
He's real good, Real good in
Spotlight.

1833
01:49:19,640 --> 01:49:22,480
Guys, I think that we've arrived
at the point Brad wanted to

1834
01:49:22,480 --> 01:49:24,040
touch on something before we get
out of here.

1835
01:49:24,040 --> 01:49:27,480
Brad, you, you told me to hit
pause on a conversation earlier.

1836
01:49:27,920 --> 01:49:31,200
I'd like to hear you get up on
your soapbox.

1837
01:49:31,720 --> 01:49:33,680
Both Patrick and I have done it,
so it's your turn now.

1838
01:49:34,080 --> 01:49:37,400
Well, here's it kind of
happened, Patrick, when you were

1839
01:49:37,400 --> 01:49:42,000
just.
Railing Bob about Kaminsky?

1840
01:49:44,640 --> 01:49:48,280
Is that what I was doing?
I mean, you know, wow.

1841
01:49:49,160 --> 01:49:52,840
I feel.
Violated what?

1842
01:49:53,760 --> 01:49:55,840
What I.
Realized and I I don't totally

1843
01:49:55,840 --> 01:49:59,360
know how I made the connection.
It but as you were talking about

1844
01:49:59,360 --> 01:50:02,200
the color and the lighting that
that's what it was you're

1845
01:50:02,200 --> 01:50:04,960
talking about the color in the
America scene.

1846
01:50:06,920 --> 01:50:09,080
It made me It made me think
about the.

1847
01:50:09,080 --> 01:50:12,160
Jets.
And it made me think about how

1848
01:50:12,160 --> 01:50:15,800
The Jets are consistently
portrayed and, and blacks and

1849
01:50:15,800 --> 01:50:19,360
Grays and jeans and right,
they're just kind of dirty and

1850
01:50:19,360 --> 01:50:23,040
they look like the concrete
rubble that they're trying to

1851
01:50:23,040 --> 01:50:26,160
protect.
And it, it got me starting to

1852
01:50:26,160 --> 01:50:29,320
think about the overall
messaging of this movie

1853
01:50:29,320 --> 01:50:33,120
specifically.
And what I really love about

1854
01:50:33,120 --> 01:50:37,160
this movie is that when you
think about who The Jets are,

1855
01:50:37,840 --> 01:50:43,920
like, The Jets are the final
children, the final generation

1856
01:50:44,400 --> 01:50:50,320
of a bunch of poor Irish,
Italian immigrants that came to

1857
01:50:50,320 --> 01:50:53,560
the country 100 years before,
right?

1858
01:50:55,200 --> 01:50:57,800
The Puerto Ricans are new to
America.

1859
01:50:58,600 --> 01:51:01,840
They are bright and vibrant and
hopeful.

1860
01:51:02,120 --> 01:51:05,360
And they?
Have this deep desire to claim

1861
01:51:05,400 --> 01:51:11,280
all that America has to offer.
And the women see all the hope.

1862
01:51:11,760 --> 01:51:15,000
And in America you see them with
their brightness and vibrancy

1863
01:51:15,000 --> 01:51:17,520
and they want to buy things on
credit and they want to get

1864
01:51:17,520 --> 01:51:19,760
these apartments and and all
these things.

1865
01:51:20,320 --> 01:51:25,440
And yet the men see the danger
of America.

1866
01:51:25,840 --> 01:51:30,760
They are fighting The Jets.
They're on the streets scrapping

1867
01:51:30,760 --> 01:51:34,400
for a living.
And so they are afraid that if

1868
01:51:34,400 --> 01:51:37,040
they stay here in America,
they're going to end up like The

1869
01:51:37,040 --> 01:51:39,520
Jets.
That's what their ultimate

1870
01:51:39,520 --> 01:51:42,000
outcome is.
And I think that.

1871
01:51:42,000 --> 01:51:47,720
The movie takes on this
fascinating reflection of like

1872
01:51:48,000 --> 01:51:53,120
you are seeing the end stage of
white immigration in America.

1873
01:51:53,760 --> 01:51:57,840
And it's very clear that some
white immigration has gone on to

1874
01:51:57,840 --> 01:52:00,520
have power and money and
prestige and all the things.

1875
01:52:00,520 --> 01:52:04,760
And yet some elements of white
immigration has ended up in the

1876
01:52:04,760 --> 01:52:09,160
slums in under the rubble of of
the city.

1877
01:52:10,120 --> 01:52:13,200
And now we get to look at it
from the new immigrants to.

1878
01:52:13,200 --> 01:52:16,920
America.
And what they are trying to get

1879
01:52:16,920 --> 01:52:19,280
out of it and what they're
afraid of and what they're

1880
01:52:19,280 --> 01:52:21,960
hopeful for.
And I just, I just found myself

1881
01:52:21,960 --> 01:52:24,640
appreciating the movie even
more.

1882
01:52:24,640 --> 01:52:29,880
So to say that it's it's not
just The Jets being racist.

1883
01:52:29,880 --> 01:52:33,360
Was that like they are?
That is very clear, but it's

1884
01:52:33,360 --> 01:52:37,880
also like they are a mirror that
the.

1885
01:52:38,280 --> 01:52:40,520
Sharks and.
The Puerto Rican community as a

1886
01:52:40,520 --> 01:52:45,000
whole are looking into to say
man like, like, we don't want to

1887
01:52:45,000 --> 01:52:47,440
become like them.
How do we avoid that?

1888
01:52:48,280 --> 01:52:50,720
And like, I don't, I don't know
if I'm just completely off my

1889
01:52:50,720 --> 01:52:55,440
rocker with this take, but
that's been like noodling around

1890
01:52:55,440 --> 01:52:58,120
in my brain ever since you were
talking about Kaminsky and

1891
01:52:58,120 --> 01:53:01,440
America and color, color schemes
for the movie.

1892
01:53:01,960 --> 01:53:04,040
Yeah.
I mean, I think that for me the

1893
01:53:04,080 --> 01:53:08,600
the biggest win.
That you get by Kushner kind of

1894
01:53:08,600 --> 01:53:13,560
adding stakes right from the
beginning is that he immediately

1895
01:53:13,560 --> 01:53:18,560
establishes not not just that
like this is a a zone under

1896
01:53:18,560 --> 01:53:21,800
construction, but that like this
entire neighborhood is going to

1897
01:53:21,800 --> 01:53:24,520
be leveled.
We are fighting over like this

1898
01:53:24,520 --> 01:53:29,240
is the last gasp of what you
know for The Jets like what my

1899
01:53:29,240 --> 01:53:32,240
parents and grandparents were
here for like I'm fighting this

1900
01:53:32,480 --> 01:53:37,080
to the death and for the Sharks
it's like this is the first

1901
01:53:37,080 --> 01:53:38,560
place we've been able to call
home.

1902
01:53:38,680 --> 01:53:41,880
We have nothing else we want to
be able to say that like this is

1903
01:53:41,880 --> 01:53:44,400
our territory now.
And so it it almost has this

1904
01:53:44,400 --> 01:53:48,520
sort of like, you know, doomed
who's going to be the last one

1905
01:53:48,520 --> 01:53:52,120
off of the planet before the
asteroid crashes into it kind of

1906
01:53:52,120 --> 01:53:54,400
a thing.
Like there there is this this

1907
01:53:54,400 --> 01:53:57,720
weightiness that's added to it
in a way that the 61 version

1908
01:53:57,720 --> 01:54:00,680
doesn't have.
And it also helps explain

1909
01:54:01,160 --> 01:54:04,960
everybody's hot headedness and
why they're so it like so

1910
01:54:04,960 --> 01:54:07,720
volatile all the time.
It's because there's this sort

1911
01:54:07,720 --> 01:54:11,840
of like ticking time bomb
situation happening apart from

1912
01:54:11,840 --> 01:54:14,640
their tension with each other,
it's their tension with like the

1913
01:54:14,640 --> 01:54:16,640
city around them that's
crumbling.

1914
01:54:16,640 --> 01:54:20,480
I just I think that like adding
that it, it really does remind

1915
01:54:20,480 --> 01:54:22,200
me in a lot of ways.
You know, we talked about the

1916
01:54:22,200 --> 01:54:25,920
color palette of the original
mirroring like do the right

1917
01:54:25,920 --> 01:54:28,040
thing.
But I think in terms of like

1918
01:54:28,040 --> 01:54:31,360
dramatically, this one kind of
mirrors do the right thing

1919
01:54:31,360 --> 01:54:34,440
because you have that sort of
like there's, you know, it's the

1920
01:54:34,440 --> 01:54:36,240
hottest day of the year.
There's a ticking time bomb.

1921
01:54:36,240 --> 01:54:37,920
This is going to explode
eventually.

1922
01:54:38,120 --> 01:54:41,400
You get that sort of same
dramatic stakes from the fact

1923
01:54:41,400 --> 01:54:44,080
that like we're leveling this to
build Lincoln Center and I think

1924
01:54:44,080 --> 01:54:47,400
once again, that is what gives
more.

1925
01:54:47,400 --> 01:54:51,360
Depth to Tony and Maria's
relationship is that this isn't

1926
01:54:51,360 --> 01:54:54,040
just about two kids who fell in
love.

1927
01:54:54,760 --> 01:54:58,200
Like because of how Riff and
Tony are situated, you can

1928
01:54:58,240 --> 01:55:04,040
actually tell that Tony is
trying to lift himself up beyond

1929
01:55:04,040 --> 01:55:07,360
the place that he came from,
which is what all of the whole

1930
01:55:07,360 --> 01:55:09,880
Puerto Rican community is trying
to do as well.

1931
01:55:10,360 --> 01:55:16,000
And so the the idea that we
could work together and fall in

1932
01:55:16,000 --> 01:55:20,680
love in order to better both of
our lives it it.

1933
01:55:20,680 --> 01:55:23,280
Mimics this.
Idea that if The Jets, if The

1934
01:55:23,280 --> 01:55:27,960
Jets and the Sharks were willing
to work together, that they

1935
01:55:27,960 --> 01:55:30,520
could all work together to lift
themselves up.

1936
01:55:30,840 --> 01:55:32,800
And yet what do they get brought
down by?

1937
01:55:33,240 --> 01:55:39,080
Well, petty jealousy and evil
racism and this territorialness

1938
01:55:39,080 --> 01:55:45,400
that sinks the entire ship, the,
the 2 standard bearers of the

1939
01:55:45,400 --> 01:55:48,280
two communities are dead at the
end of the movie.

1940
01:55:48,680 --> 01:55:54,600
And it's their hatred that also
sinks the rising ship of Tony

1941
01:55:54,600 --> 01:55:58,520
and Maria, a partnership that
could have represented

1942
01:55:59,000 --> 01:56:02,880
cooperation between two racially
diverse communities.

1943
01:56:03,320 --> 01:56:06,000
And I'm, I'm just like, I, I
don't know.

1944
01:56:06,000 --> 01:56:07,400
I'm just like geeking out about
this.

1945
01:56:07,400 --> 01:56:11,680
I think it's a fascinating
subtext to the movie that I I

1946
01:56:11,680 --> 01:56:14,160
like I didn't think about before
until we sat down and talked

1947
01:56:14,160 --> 01:56:16,720
about it today.
Yeah, a thing that I was

1948
01:56:16,720 --> 01:56:19,240
thinking about on this re watch
is.

1949
01:56:19,320 --> 01:56:21,640
Also, I feel like everything I'm
about to say is like really

1950
01:56:21,640 --> 01:56:24,960
obvious stuff, but whatever, I
was thinking about it anyway.

1951
01:56:25,200 --> 01:56:29,600
But I'm like, I look, this has
several of the best songs like

1952
01:56:29,600 --> 01:56:36,000
ever written in it.
But I really think the most

1953
01:56:36,000 --> 01:56:40,520
important song in the whole
thing is Somewhere, because

1954
01:56:40,600 --> 01:56:46,240
fundamentally West Side Story is
basically just about a whole

1955
01:56:46,240 --> 01:56:48,600
bunch of people who all they
really.

1956
01:56:48,600 --> 01:56:53,040
Want is to belong.
Somewhere and that's it, whether

1957
01:56:53,040 --> 01:56:56,600
it's the the The Jets who are
just desperately trying to hold

1958
01:56:56,600 --> 01:56:59,720
on to like the only thing they
have as it's as they that they

1959
01:56:59,760 --> 01:57:01,040
think is being taken away from
them.

1960
01:57:01,440 --> 01:57:04,880
Obviously the Puerto Rican just
want a, a, a new home.

1961
01:57:05,680 --> 01:57:10,120
It's why I, I think the like
the, the, the changes to to

1962
01:57:10,200 --> 01:57:13,840
anybody is, is one of the like,
like the smartest changes, like

1963
01:57:13,840 --> 01:57:20,040
in this version, because they
just want to belong like in a

1964
01:57:20,040 --> 01:57:23,720
group.
And, and so and like somewhere

1965
01:57:23,720 --> 01:57:26,040
basically just like lays out
like this.

1966
01:57:26,040 --> 01:57:30,480
This is like this is just what
the the entire story is about.

1967
01:57:31,040 --> 01:57:35,680
Just like there's a place for us
and and and I think all of these

1968
01:57:36,360 --> 01:57:41,480
beyond truly beyond just like,
you know, I think, you know,

1969
01:57:41,560 --> 01:57:45,640
Spielberg and Yanish's like
staggering work here and a

1970
01:57:45,640 --> 01:57:49,080
really extraordinary cast.
I think what makes this movie

1971
01:57:49,080 --> 01:57:54,160
like really special and the the
places where it does, I think

1972
01:57:55,120 --> 01:58:00,160
exceed the original R Kushner's
changes like two of these

1973
01:58:00,160 --> 01:58:05,880
scripts that just deepen that
central idea even more.

1974
01:58:08,720 --> 01:58:10,080
All right, guys, I think it's
time for us.

1975
01:58:10,080 --> 01:58:12,280
To get into our final segment.
Of the day which?

1976
01:58:12,280 --> 01:58:16,400
We call Let's make it a double.
We're near the end of the

1977
01:58:16,520 --> 01:58:19,120
episode, so thanks listening to
the film and.

1978
01:58:19,120 --> 01:58:21,400
Whiskey Show.
Let's have another film with

1979
01:58:21,400 --> 01:58:22,840
this one, even if it's
struggling.

1980
01:58:22,840 --> 01:58:24,320
It's the final segment of the
day now.

1981
01:58:24,320 --> 01:58:28,920
Let's make it a double now.
I've been thinking through this

1982
01:58:28,920 --> 01:58:31,240
whole episode.
What would I pair West Side

1983
01:58:31,240 --> 01:58:34,040
Story 21 up with?
You know that's not the obvious

1984
01:58:34,520 --> 01:58:38,080
OG 61 version.
I'll kick us off because,

1985
01:58:38,080 --> 01:58:40,920
Patrick, I can see you have
forgotten that we do this every

1986
01:58:40,920 --> 01:58:41,800
time.
So I'm gonna give you.

1987
01:58:42,200 --> 01:58:44,920
I've got my answer.
You got it.

1988
01:58:45,240 --> 01:58:46,840
You know what?
Let's do this, then let's give

1989
01:58:46,840 --> 01:58:48,160
Patrick.
I don't know if you.

1990
01:58:48,160 --> 01:58:50,000
Wanna first dibs here?
I don't know if you wanna keep

1991
01:58:50,000 --> 01:58:54,240
poking Patrick, man.
It's.

1992
01:58:54,240 --> 01:58:55,480
OK, it's OK.
We.

1993
01:58:56,040 --> 01:58:58,480
Like all of our animosity is in
the past.

1994
01:59:00,320 --> 01:59:02,880
Yeah, we're we're like The Jets
to the shots at the very end.

1995
01:59:02,880 --> 01:59:06,720
After several people have died.
We're walking together down the

1996
01:59:06,720 --> 01:59:11,720
street, holding the corks as
Brad's as Brad's dead arm.

1997
01:59:11,720 --> 01:59:15,920
Flops over, you come.
Over and grab his arm next to me

1998
01:59:15,920 --> 01:59:19,040
as we March him down the street.
Yeah, Patrick, go right ahead.

1999
01:59:19,040 --> 01:59:23,240
What's your Let's make it a
double here, Mad Max Fury Rd.

2000
01:59:27,360 --> 01:59:31,360
If my children were not sleeping
immediately above.

2001
01:59:31,360 --> 01:59:35,200
Me right now I would be
screaming witness me as loud as

2002
01:59:35,200 --> 01:59:41,120
I can Brad I I I'm honored to
hear that I.

2003
01:59:41,160 --> 01:59:43,560
The The only thing that could
have made the ending of this

2004
01:59:43,560 --> 01:59:47,120
movie better is if.
Right before shooting, Tony

2005
01:59:47,320 --> 01:59:52,200
Chino just like sprayed silver
all over his face, then came out

2006
01:59:52,200 --> 01:59:54,000
in the street.
It is.

2007
01:59:54,000 --> 01:59:59,880
It is truly in terms of like.
Major studio films in the 21st

2008
01:59:59,880 --> 02:00:03,880
century.
I I really think those are, at

2009
02:00:03,880 --> 02:00:09,760
least for me the 2 like most,
purely thrilling.

2010
02:00:09,760 --> 02:00:12,440
Films on just.
On a film making level and

2011
02:00:12,440 --> 02:00:18,160
especially just in terms of like
like pure cinema, like I said a

2012
02:00:18,160 --> 02:00:23,080
million times, movement and
light and colour.

2013
02:00:23,080 --> 02:00:25,000
And music.
And all of those things that

2014
02:00:25,000 --> 02:00:27,040
these.
Movies are so different, but

2015
02:00:27,040 --> 02:00:32,400
they are like, I really struggle
to think of two films that that

2016
02:00:33,080 --> 02:00:37,640
offer such transcendent, just
cinematic experiences.

2017
02:00:37,920 --> 02:00:41,560
And I'm like, if I, if I spent
like, I don't know, like 4 1/2

2018
02:00:41,560 --> 02:00:45,960
hours watching the two of those
back-to-back, I'd, I, I'd feel

2019
02:00:45,960 --> 02:00:47,760
like I could just run through a
brick wall.

2020
02:00:47,960 --> 02:00:51,960
Yep, Patrick I so I did not see
Fury.

2021
02:00:51,960 --> 02:00:54,520
Road in theaters.
I'm have.

2022
02:00:54,560 --> 02:00:56,800
Have you had a chance yet?
I have it.

2023
02:00:57,800 --> 02:01:00,480
Trust me when I say the moment I
see it.

2024
02:01:00,480 --> 02:01:03,480
Showing anywhere you got to come
to New York, a place here like

2025
02:01:03,480 --> 02:01:06,960
every year.
That might be our next trip,

2026
02:01:06,960 --> 02:01:10,080
Bob, so just to see.
Fury Rd.

2027
02:01:10,080 --> 02:01:14,040
I sometimes just.
Based on life scheduling, I can

2028
02:01:14,040 --> 02:01:16,960
only watch a.
Movie at like 5:30 AM before I

2029
02:01:16,960 --> 02:01:18,400
start the work day and all that,
right?

2030
02:01:19,560 --> 02:01:21,280
I love that Patrick appreciates
that.

2031
02:01:21,280 --> 02:01:23,960
I'm sure that Patrick has
watched a movie at 5:30 AM at

2032
02:01:23,960 --> 02:01:27,600
some point in his life.
So I got up one day and I

2033
02:01:27,600 --> 02:01:29,200
watched Mad.
Packs.

2034
02:01:29,200 --> 02:01:33,960
Fury Road for the first time in
my life from like 5:30 to 7:30

2035
02:01:34,920 --> 02:01:37,760
and no joke this is the only
time this has ever happened in

2036
02:01:37,760 --> 02:01:39,560
my life.
I texted my buddy Steven, who I

2037
02:01:39,560 --> 02:01:43,040
know loves Fury Rd.
It was like, bro, I, I need you

2038
02:01:43,040 --> 02:01:45,200
to come watch Fury Rd. with me
tonight.

2039
02:01:45,280 --> 02:01:48,560
I literally have not been able
to stop thinking about it.

2040
02:01:48,760 --> 02:01:53,440
Like, I'm like doing dishes,
like just immersed in the world.

2041
02:01:53,880 --> 02:01:57,120
And he came over that night and
I watched that movie twice in

2042
02:01:57,120 --> 02:02:00,520
one day.
Let's go.

2043
02:02:02,520 --> 02:02:03,520
I love it, dude.
Oh.

2044
02:02:03,520 --> 02:02:05,800
My gosh.
I.

2045
02:02:06,080 --> 02:02:09,080
Well, I guess I'll come.
Down off of that mountaintop for

2046
02:02:09,080 --> 02:02:11,360
my let's make it a.
Double unless Brad, do you want

2047
02:02:11,360 --> 02:02:12,800
to go first?
Yeah, I'll go.

2048
02:02:12,800 --> 02:02:16,040
I I think did last time when we
did the.

2049
02:02:16,080 --> 02:02:18,080
OG did I?
Choose.

2050
02:02:18,080 --> 02:02:21,520
Do the right thing.
I don't know.

2051
02:02:21,760 --> 02:02:23,000
I'm trying.
I don't know what I mean, but

2052
02:02:23,000 --> 02:02:24,080
you can.
Do it again if you want to.

2053
02:02:24,760 --> 02:02:26,160
Well, I was thinking about.
Do the right.

2054
02:02:26,160 --> 02:02:28,080
Thing and I was.
Like I think I picked that

2055
02:02:28,080 --> 02:02:29,360
before.
So I'll pick another one.

2056
02:02:29,960 --> 02:02:33,800
I think that I want to pair this
with if Beale Street could.

2057
02:02:33,800 --> 02:02:36,480
Talk.
I thought nice.

2058
02:02:36,480 --> 02:02:39,920
I think that there's.
Something about the way.

2059
02:02:39,920 --> 02:02:44,920
That they shoot a couple being
in love when all the odds are

2060
02:02:44,920 --> 02:02:49,600
against them that like the vibe
of if Beale Street could talk is

2061
02:02:49,600 --> 02:02:53,960
like very different than West
Side Story and the kineticism of

2062
02:02:53,960 --> 02:02:55,840
it.
But like, there's still that

2063
02:02:55,840 --> 02:03:03,200
same thrust of a of a story and,
and what they're trying to do.

2064
02:03:03,200 --> 02:03:06,160
And it's a very beautiful movie.
So there you go.

2065
02:03:06,240 --> 02:03:08,480
I'll give you if Beale Street
could talk a good answer.

2066
02:03:09,520 --> 02:03:12,520
Yeah, dude, I.
Well, and Brad knows.

2067
02:03:12,520 --> 02:03:14,920
If Beale Street could talk is.
Like one of my top 10 movies of

2068
02:03:14,920 --> 02:03:17,560
the century.
So I think he's trying to coax

2069
02:03:17,560 --> 02:03:21,160
my score on this up a little bit
by comparing it to Beale Street.

2070
02:03:21,400 --> 02:03:25,400
I would never do something, Bob.
I'm gonna go with a movie.

2071
02:03:25,400 --> 02:03:28,520
That's pretty recent here.
And it's because one of my.

2072
02:03:28,520 --> 02:03:33,240
Favorite additions by Kushner in
this version is this random

2073
02:03:33,240 --> 02:03:39,000
scene of Rif procuring a gun for
the rumble where they go in this

2074
02:03:39,000 --> 02:03:43,680
bar and you get this great, like
you remind me of your dad and

2075
02:03:43,680 --> 02:03:45,720
you get the the kind of
unwritten rules of like

2076
02:03:45,720 --> 02:03:48,240
illegally buying a gun of him
just being like, leave it on the

2077
02:03:48,240 --> 02:03:50,200
counter.
Don't hand it to me, you know?

2078
02:03:50,600 --> 02:03:55,800
And it reminded me so much of
this really vivid bar fight

2079
02:03:55,800 --> 02:04:02,640
scene in the 2023 movie The Bike
Riders, which is an incredibly

2080
02:04:02,640 --> 02:04:09,560
underrated kind of study of
1960s, you know, biker gangs

2081
02:04:09,560 --> 02:04:12,600
that I think was just, like, way
overlooked.

2082
02:04:12,600 --> 02:04:16,120
And the more I thought about it,
it's not just the bar scene, but

2083
02:04:16,120 --> 02:04:20,520
it's this study of a group of
men who do not know how to

2084
02:04:20,520 --> 02:04:24,480
express their feelings, who are
violent people because they are

2085
02:04:24,480 --> 02:04:26,880
like emotionally immature and
scared.

2086
02:04:27,440 --> 02:04:30,240
And I think that there's like
way more parallels to it,

2087
02:04:30,400 --> 02:04:33,280
especially this version of West
Side Story, you know, than the

2088
02:04:33,280 --> 02:04:36,080
61 version.
I really cannot recommend the

2089
02:04:36,080 --> 02:04:38,440
bike riders highly enough.
It was one of my favorite movies

2090
02:04:38,440 --> 02:04:40,760
of 2023.
And I don't think I've ever

2091
02:04:40,760 --> 02:04:42,680
gotten a chance to talk about it
on this podcast.

2092
02:04:42,680 --> 02:04:44,440
Brad, I, I've never heard you
mention it.

2093
02:04:44,560 --> 02:04:47,040
So I appreciate it.
I really like that movie.

2094
02:04:47,040 --> 02:04:49,160
I agree it's underrated.
Real.

2095
02:04:49,160 --> 02:04:52,120
Also, Really.
Good answer, thank you.

2096
02:04:52,120 --> 02:04:53,920
I I redeemed myself a little
bit.

2097
02:04:53,920 --> 02:04:57,880
Mad Max Fury Rd.
Is the right answer to every

2098
02:04:57,880 --> 02:05:03,560
Let's make it a double yeah you
know The Sound of Music, Mad Max

2099
02:05:03,560 --> 02:05:05,880
Fury Rd. there's.
Some reason that you can.

2100
02:05:05,880 --> 02:05:08,480
Justify that it pairs with
everything whether.

2101
02:05:08,480 --> 02:05:10,920
It's like a similar vibe or
whether it's being like, you

2102
02:05:10,920 --> 02:05:14,080
know what, I enjoyed that
Tarkovsky film, but it was, you

2103
02:05:14,080 --> 02:05:16,640
know, like slow.
When let's get some energy going

2104
02:05:16,640 --> 02:05:19,120
after this, it's like, yeah,
there wasn't enough fat men with

2105
02:05:19,120 --> 02:05:21,200
nipple rings.
Exactly.

2106
02:05:21,200 --> 02:05:24,040
Exactly, Brad, The Sound of
Music is one of the.

2107
02:05:24,040 --> 02:05:26,400
Easiest things to pair with Fury
Rd. because.

2108
02:05:26,400 --> 02:05:28,640
Then you have the sound and the
fury, and that's just like,

2109
02:05:28,800 --> 02:05:33,440
that's an obvious one, guys.
Let us give this film some final

2110
02:05:33,440 --> 02:05:34,320
scores.
I will go.

2111
02:05:34,320 --> 02:05:35,920
First here because.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to be

2112
02:05:35,920 --> 02:05:39,200
the low man here.
I didn't really get a chance to

2113
02:05:39,200 --> 02:05:42,280
talk about this because Brad
your your soapbox moment was

2114
02:05:42,280 --> 02:05:46,000
very elegant.
My My biggest overall gripe with

2115
02:05:46,000 --> 02:05:50,360
this movie, aside from the
Janusz of it all, is I actually

2116
02:05:50,360 --> 02:05:55,520
kind of disliked the extent to
which both gangs.

2117
02:05:58,040 --> 02:05:59,720
Are.
Accepted by and.

2118
02:05:59,720 --> 02:06:02,920
Have connection.
To their communities, like the

2119
02:06:02,920 --> 02:06:06,320
America number.
For me, it becomes this this

2120
02:06:06,320 --> 02:06:10,440
kind of neighborhood celebration
where it goes beyond just like

2121
02:06:10,680 --> 02:06:14,080
the Sharks and their girls
having a friendly argument with

2122
02:06:14,080 --> 02:06:16,480
each other that's kind of like
sassy back and forth.

2123
02:06:16,800 --> 02:06:19,800
And it it kind of spills into
the street and becomes both like

2124
02:06:19,800 --> 02:06:22,800
a celebration of Puerto Rican
culture and their own

2125
02:06:22,800 --> 02:06:25,720
frustrations.
And it's an interesting choice.

2126
02:06:25,720 --> 02:06:27,920
And you have moments like that
with The Jets as well,

2127
02:06:28,200 --> 02:06:30,560
especially the way that they
interact with like, Lieutenant

2128
02:06:30,560 --> 02:06:33,840
Shrink, who very much paints
himself as like, I'm one of you

2129
02:06:33,840 --> 02:06:36,400
guys in a way that he doesn't do
in the original.

2130
02:06:37,040 --> 02:06:39,920
And I actually think that's my
least favorite change about this

2131
02:06:39,920 --> 02:06:42,920
version, because there's
something about the 61 version

2132
02:06:42,920 --> 02:06:48,240
that captures the fact that both
of these gangs are completely

2133
02:06:48,240 --> 02:06:51,240
misunderstood and rejected.
By.

2134
02:06:51,840 --> 02:06:55,640
Everybody else, even like of
their own ethnic background,

2135
02:06:55,760 --> 02:06:58,800
everyone is constantly looking
at The Jets and being like you

2136
02:06:58,800 --> 02:07:01,080
guys are idiots, you guys are
stupid, you're going to amount

2137
02:07:01,080 --> 02:07:03,360
to nothing.
Doc is constantly telling them

2138
02:07:03,360 --> 02:07:07,120
that the America number, you
know, in the 61 version is this

2139
02:07:07,120 --> 02:07:09,600
very kind of insulated, insular
thing.

2140
02:07:10,040 --> 02:07:13,160
And I think that what that
version does better is it

2141
02:07:13,160 --> 02:07:16,600
captures that the only people
that understand each of the

2142
02:07:16,600 --> 02:07:20,200
gangs is their mirror image in
the rival gang, which is why you

2143
02:07:20,200 --> 02:07:24,280
have that great moment after the
opening, like ballet where

2144
02:07:24,280 --> 02:07:27,360
they're given Officer Krupke and
Lieutenant Shrank a bunch of

2145
02:07:27,360 --> 02:07:29,160
shit and they're like giggling
with each other.

2146
02:07:29,960 --> 02:07:33,800
It works so much better because
it immediately underscores these

2147
02:07:33,800 --> 02:07:37,040
guys all understand each other
and the tragedies that they hate

2148
02:07:37,040 --> 02:07:39,200
each other, but they're the only
ones that get each other.

2149
02:07:39,480 --> 02:07:42,560
So I think that that for me,
that kind of brought this

2150
02:07:42,560 --> 02:07:44,280
adaptation down just a little
bit.

2151
02:07:44,480 --> 02:07:49,240
I also like, I have canonized
and lionized the 61 version.

2152
02:07:50,280 --> 02:07:52,840
I'm watching this version and I
get to the rumble and I'm like,

2153
02:07:52,840 --> 02:07:55,800
this is like a 7 out of 10 movie
for me so far.

2154
02:07:56,160 --> 02:07:59,520
And I, it pains me to say it
because I think that Spielberg's

2155
02:07:59,520 --> 02:08:02,360
floor is kind of a 7 out of 10
movie.

2156
02:08:03,560 --> 02:08:06,800
And he, I think, I think he's
got some lower than that.

2157
02:08:08,200 --> 02:08:10,680
I mean, from a technical
standpoint, it's hard for him to

2158
02:08:10,680 --> 02:08:12,240
do.
Worse than A7?

2159
02:08:12,240 --> 02:08:16,320
Behind the camera, but then the
rumble happened and then the

2160
02:08:16,320 --> 02:08:19,000
rest of the movie happened and
it really took off for me.

2161
02:08:19,000 --> 02:08:22,640
Hey, remember that shot at the
bathing of the rumble where it's

2162
02:08:22,640 --> 02:08:24,560
like.
Overhead and all the shadows

2163
02:08:24,560 --> 02:08:29,080
come in.
Yeah, freaking amazing, guys.

2164
02:08:29,200 --> 02:08:31,640
As much crap as I've given this
movie, I am going to.

2165
02:08:31,640 --> 02:08:36,080
Come all the way up to an. 8.5
out of 10 on this film it it

2166
02:08:36,080 --> 02:08:42,080
does not approach the heights of
61 for me, which I think is like

2167
02:08:42,760 --> 02:08:46,240
I really might put that on like
my ten all time put it in a

2168
02:08:46,240 --> 02:08:49,360
vault movies just from a
cinematic language standpoint.

2169
02:08:49,880 --> 02:08:51,200
But this is still a damn good
movie.

2170
02:08:51,200 --> 02:08:55,240
Brad.
Isn't it funny when you think a

2171
02:08:55,240 --> 02:08:57,360
movie is?
Really good and just because.

2172
02:08:58,200 --> 02:08:59,760
The other people are even higher
on it.

2173
02:08:59,760 --> 02:09:02,600
You end up having to, like, be
the bad guy.

2174
02:09:02,880 --> 02:09:06,200
Yeah, yeah, I I've been in that
position before and it's

2175
02:09:06,200 --> 02:09:07,800
annoying.
Patrick.

2176
02:09:08,840 --> 02:09:13,880
Episode Season 1 episode.
One of the film and fucking

2177
02:09:13,880 --> 02:09:17,120
Whiskey podcast.
We watch a movie called

2178
02:09:17,120 --> 02:09:21,600
Goodfellas.
Little old Brad here.

2179
02:09:22,360 --> 02:09:24,440
Little old Brad here liked the
movie A.

2180
02:09:24,440 --> 02:09:28,680
Lot but had some quibbles and
qualms with it and I gave it an

2181
02:09:28,680 --> 02:09:34,080
8.5 and I thought Pop was going
to come across the table and

2182
02:09:34,080 --> 02:09:39,160
strangle me forgiving it an 8.5.
How dare you.

2183
02:09:39,240 --> 02:09:42,880
Good fellas, dude.
It's a great movie.

2184
02:09:42,960 --> 02:09:44,120
It's just.
Not.

2185
02:09:44,120 --> 02:09:45,240
Perfect.
It's not.

2186
02:09:46,560 --> 02:09:50,600
Or is it or right?
Or is it I don't?

2187
02:09:50,600 --> 02:09:55,680
Know.
I think this is a 10 out of 10.

2188
02:09:55,680 --> 02:09:58,760
Movie Bob.
Wow.

2189
02:09:58,760 --> 02:10:02,360
This is.
Like I got done with this movie.

2190
02:10:02,800 --> 02:10:08,880
And I got done crying and I just
started like 5, you know, the

2191
02:10:08,880 --> 02:10:13,280
little like Rolodex of my
musicals that I love.

2192
02:10:14,000 --> 02:10:16,040
And I'm like, it's this in La La
Land.

2193
02:10:17,080 --> 02:10:21,480
And even like, as you were
talking about how Steven needed

2194
02:10:21,480 --> 02:10:25,760
to put it on a on a tripod and
just kind of do a little thing

2195
02:10:25,760 --> 02:10:28,400
here and there, I was thinking
about La La Land.

2196
02:10:28,800 --> 02:10:32,120
And I'm like, he does that for
the majority of the dance

2197
02:10:32,120 --> 02:10:37,320
sequences and it doesn't work
because he doesn't have Gene

2198
02:10:37,320 --> 02:10:40,160
Kelly dancing.
He has Ryan Gosling.

2199
02:10:40,840 --> 02:10:44,280
And I'm like, I, I'm sure that
Ansel Elgort is a great dancer,

2200
02:10:44,280 --> 02:10:46,040
probably better than Ryan
Gosling.

2201
02:10:46,040 --> 02:10:47,880
He he went to LaGuardia after
all.

2202
02:10:48,840 --> 02:10:52,400
But at the end of the day, he's
not Fred Astaire.

2203
02:10:52,880 --> 02:10:56,360
And I, I think I like, I love La
La Land.

2204
02:10:56,520 --> 02:11:02,000
It remains up there for me.
This is one of the greatest

2205
02:11:02,000 --> 02:11:07,560
musicals that's ever been made
and I freaking love West Side

2206
02:11:07,560 --> 02:11:13,480
Story 2020.
One I like and love. 61 I

2207
02:11:13,480 --> 02:11:17,080
started this episode by saying I
think this is much better and

2208
02:11:17,080 --> 02:11:19,560
I'm sticking with that with my
final score.

2209
02:11:20,520 --> 02:11:24,600
There you go, I'm.
Trying to remember.

2210
02:11:24,600 --> 02:11:28,600
What I.
Gave the. 61 film.

2211
02:11:28,720 --> 02:11:33,480
I'm like did I give it a 9.5 or
did I give it a 10?

2212
02:11:33,800 --> 02:11:36,160
Do you write these down?
I think you and I both gave it

2213
02:11:36,160 --> 02:11:38,880
A10 and Brad gave it a 9.5.
If I.

2214
02:11:38,880 --> 02:11:42,120
Remember correctly.
That sounds right.

2215
02:11:42,400 --> 02:11:45,200
Yeah, I gave it a 9.5.
Bob gave it a 10.

2216
02:11:45,280 --> 02:11:47,960
We didn't write down what you
gave it, but I I think you gave

2217
02:11:47,960 --> 02:11:50,120
it a 10 as well.
Then I'm giving this A10 as

2218
02:11:50,120 --> 02:11:52,880
well.
It's again.

2219
02:11:52,880 --> 02:11:56,720
I think I, I, I, I'm not even
saying 1 is better than the

2220
02:11:56,760 --> 02:12:01,520
other.
I, I again, I, I love these two

2221
02:12:01,520 --> 02:12:07,800
movies so much.
And again for for what seemed

2222
02:12:08,000 --> 02:12:10,080
like a doomed.
Mission.

2223
02:12:10,600 --> 02:12:15,080
The gall to be like I'm gonna
remake this.

2224
02:12:15,080 --> 02:12:17,240
All right, I know, I know, you
can say like it's not a remake.

2225
02:12:17,240 --> 02:12:20,120
It's just like a re adaptation
of the same source material.

2226
02:12:20,120 --> 02:12:22,240
Whatever it's it's calling your
own shot.

2227
02:12:23,080 --> 02:12:26,200
It really is it really?
Is and the fact that it.

2228
02:12:26,200 --> 02:12:29,800
Actually delivers to this
degree.

2229
02:12:30,120 --> 02:12:33,920
And you know, I've, I've seen
this thing, you know, multiple

2230
02:12:33,920 --> 02:12:35,960
times.
And each time I'm just like, I I

2231
02:12:35,960 --> 02:12:41,360
think this is like, I think
decades from now we're going to

2232
02:12:41,360 --> 02:12:44,440
especially for a movie that,
even though it was very well

2233
02:12:44,440 --> 02:12:48,400
received, got like a best
picture nomination, it was not a

2234
02:12:48,400 --> 02:12:52,720
huge box office success.
It kind of disappointed and it

2235
02:12:53,520 --> 02:12:56,080
was also marketed weird, but
whatever.

2236
02:12:56,240 --> 02:12:57,240
But like.
Yeah.

2237
02:12:57,760 --> 02:13:02,240
I I think a lot of people just
kind of slept on this movie.

2238
02:13:02,600 --> 02:13:05,480
Which feels crazy.
But I think decades from now,

2239
02:13:05,480 --> 02:13:10,240
people will look at this and be
like, oh, that actually maybe is

2240
02:13:10,320 --> 02:13:14,000
one of the great movies of the
21st century.

2241
02:13:14,000 --> 02:13:17,160
And if nothing else, it's
probably like the best musical

2242
02:13:17,720 --> 02:13:21,760
that's been made.
And, and I, and I, I think 11 of

2243
02:13:21,760 --> 02:13:25,880
Spielberg's best.
So, yeah, I'm, I'm going 10 out

2244
02:13:25,880 --> 02:13:28,280
of 10, baby.
Let's go.

2245
02:13:28,280 --> 02:13:30,720
There you go.
All right, Patrick.

2246
02:13:30,920 --> 02:13:31,760
Thank.
You for joining.

2247
02:13:31,760 --> 02:13:33,520
Us thank you for.
Putting me in my.

2248
02:13:33,520 --> 02:13:36,640
Place about Mr. Kaminsky.
My pleasure.

2249
02:13:36,760 --> 02:13:39,680
I, I will.
I will turn it over to you.

2250
02:13:40,000 --> 02:13:42,440
Tell us what you're working on.
Where can we find you?

2251
02:13:43,120 --> 02:13:46,040
Just all the things, Patrick.
I mean, New York City, obviously

2252
02:13:46,080 --> 02:13:48,320
that's where you I'm in the
greatest.

2253
02:13:48,320 --> 02:13:53,400
City in the.
World New York City, although I

2254
02:13:53,400 --> 02:13:56,240
live in Brooklyn, not Manhattan,
where The Jets and the Sharks

2255
02:13:56,240 --> 02:14:00,520
live but but you know, I make it
where they still live to be

2256
02:14:00,520 --> 02:14:03,040
clear, they still oh, oh, oh, oh
true well, there's the.

2257
02:14:03,280 --> 02:14:04,680
The new incarnations of The
Jets.

2258
02:14:04,680 --> 02:14:06,360
And the Sharks that we're all
familiar with.

2259
02:14:06,680 --> 02:14:07,880
Sure.
Yeah, exactly.

2260
02:14:08,280 --> 02:14:10,960
Yeah.
The obviously, you know, the the

2261
02:14:10,960 --> 02:14:13,560
Sharks, you know, they
campaigned for Zoran.

2262
02:14:13,920 --> 02:14:17,840
You know, The Jets were iffier
about him, as they would be.

2263
02:14:18,960 --> 02:14:21,520
But no.
Anyway, so I I make videos about

2264
02:14:21,520 --> 02:14:23,920
movies.
They are available on YouTube

2265
02:14:23,920 --> 02:14:26,440
and Nebula.
And I got to say the timing is

2266
02:14:26,440 --> 02:14:32,960
great because I am currently
writing and shooting next week a

2267
02:14:32,960 --> 02:14:36,960
video that I have been promising
for a year now and I'm finally

2268
02:14:36,960 --> 02:14:41,040
doing it.
A video about a Spielberg movie

2269
02:14:41,040 --> 02:14:44,840
that I have extremely
complicated feelings about.

2270
02:14:45,360 --> 02:14:50,000
Cult hook.
Oh, there it is.

2271
02:14:51,720 --> 02:14:55,880
Less than a seven out of. 10 But
is it?

2272
02:14:55,880 --> 02:15:00,520
It is a it is a bizarre,
fascinating thing that is a real

2273
02:15:00,520 --> 02:15:05,800
like a expensive therapy session
for Steve as he is trying to

2274
02:15:05,800 --> 02:15:08,760
figure a lot of stuff out in
that one movie.

2275
02:15:08,760 --> 02:15:13,880
And I am, I I I'm, I'm I'm, I'm
spending a lot of time thinking

2276
02:15:13,880 --> 02:15:16,360
about this movie and wait, when
did this episode drop?

2277
02:15:18,240 --> 02:15:20,200
Sometime next week.
So you will be.

2278
02:15:20,360 --> 02:15:22,040
Knee deep in recording it and I,
I, I'm.

2279
02:15:22,080 --> 02:15:23,960
Just even gonna say it.
I haven't announced this

2280
02:15:23,960 --> 02:15:26,680
anywhere else.
I'm doing I'm doing the

2281
02:15:26,680 --> 02:15:32,320
Spielberg doubleheader after the
hook video because I feel kind

2282
02:15:32,320 --> 02:15:36,240
of bad kind of ragging on Steve
a bunch in the movie.

2283
02:15:36,240 --> 02:15:38,840
To be clear, it's not like an
like an anti hook video, but

2284
02:15:38,840 --> 02:15:40,440
it's like it it is critical of
it.

2285
02:15:41,080 --> 02:15:46,400
After that I'm doing a video
about Munich which I think

2286
02:15:46,800 --> 02:15:51,160
contains some of the some of
the, if not the very best

2287
02:15:51,560 --> 02:15:54,280
directing Spielberg has ever
done.

2288
02:15:54,760 --> 02:15:57,200
Just one.
Of his most underrated.

2289
02:15:57,200 --> 02:16:02,040
Movies and really like a
staggering piece of film making

2290
02:16:02,040 --> 02:16:07,040
that is under discussed and so
I'm going to discuss it and

2291
02:16:07,320 --> 02:16:10,240
crucially maybe.
Yanish's crowning achievement.

2292
02:16:10,400 --> 02:16:15,160
Just a great, I mean the
technical mastery is it is what

2293
02:16:15,160 --> 02:16:18,000
what they do with the camera
and.

2294
02:16:18,000 --> 02:16:21,000
Zoom lenses and light and
reflections.

2295
02:16:21,680 --> 02:16:24,760
Last time I watched that movie,
about every 5 minutes I would

2296
02:16:24,760 --> 02:16:27,320
have to pause it and rewind to
be like, wait, wait, wait, what

2297
02:16:27,320 --> 02:16:30,040
did I, what did I just see that
that's not possible.

2298
02:16:30,080 --> 02:16:32,799
Yeah.
If you ever want to feel like

2299
02:16:32,840 --> 02:16:36,040
that's the movie that makes you
feel bad about yourself as a

2300
02:16:36,040 --> 02:16:39,879
film maker because you watch it
and it's like, well, I could

2301
02:16:39,879 --> 02:16:41,840
never do this.
No one can do this.

2302
02:16:41,840 --> 02:16:43,120
This.
What?

2303
02:16:43,120 --> 02:16:46,879
The fuck?
So yeah, anyway, I got 2 so if

2304
02:16:46,879 --> 02:16:50,639
you want me talking about
Spielberg more, that's the next.

2305
02:16:50,639 --> 02:16:53,480
Like, I don't know, month and a
half of my life.

2306
02:16:55,040 --> 02:16:56,680
Love it.
I cannot wait.

2307
02:16:56,719 --> 02:16:58,959
You could have a worse.
Episode you could.

2308
02:16:58,959 --> 02:17:00,160
Have a worse.
Sorry, Brad, Go ahead.

2309
02:17:01,320 --> 02:17:03,160
Yeah, It's, it's it's really.
Not too bad.

2310
02:17:03,160 --> 02:17:05,520
Again, like I'm I'm watching.
Empire of the Sun.

2311
02:17:05,520 --> 02:17:09,719
Like for research just 'cause
it's like, you know, it came out

2312
02:17:09,719 --> 02:17:13,120
like shortly before hook and and
you know what?

2313
02:17:13,719 --> 02:17:18,360
Really good movie.
I got to say man, weird

2314
02:17:18,360 --> 02:17:19,879
cultural.
Moment there in what?

2315
02:17:19,920 --> 02:17:22,559
What was a 90?
One, because that's also like

2316
02:17:22,879 --> 02:17:25,840
that's around the time that
Michael Jackson kind of founds

2317
02:17:25,840 --> 02:17:28,400
the Neverland Ranch too.
So there was just some weird

2318
02:17:28,639 --> 02:17:32,240
Peter Pan stuff happening in our
culture at least in 91.

2319
02:17:32,240 --> 02:17:36,000
We can all be glad that Michael.
Jackson did not star in

2320
02:17:36,000 --> 02:17:39,600
Spielberg Peter Pan movie as he
had wanted to.

2321
02:17:40,120 --> 02:17:41,639
He really wanted to.
Yep.

2322
02:17:42,799 --> 02:17:45,680
All right, Patrick Williams.
Thank you again for joining us

2323
02:17:45,680 --> 02:17:46,799
man.
It's always good to see you.

2324
02:17:47,360 --> 02:17:51,559
We will be back next week as we
preview season #11 this is going

2325
02:17:51,559 --> 02:17:54,879
to be a really fun season.
I'm sure Patrick will be joining

2326
02:17:54,879 --> 02:17:56,799
us again for one of these
upcoming films.

2327
02:17:57,600 --> 02:18:02,920
Brad, final thoughts?
I I'm just overwhelmed I think.

2328
02:18:03,360 --> 02:18:06,760
Guys, I think.
This was the best Patrick

2329
02:18:07,200 --> 02:18:10,959
episode of any.
I'm just happy that he he tore

2330
02:18:10,959 --> 02:18:17,480
me a new one 1000%. 1000%.
Well, see if I can recover my

2331
02:18:17,480 --> 02:18:19,879
dignity next week on film and
whiskey until then.

2332
02:18:19,879 --> 02:18:24,480
I am Bob Book, I'm Brad G and
we'll see you next time.