West Side Story (1961) / Glenmorangie Quinta Ruban Single Malt Scotch ft. Patrick H. Willems

0:00 In 1961, MGM Studios gave us a colorful mirage of dancing in delight that hid within it a deeply dramatic story that touched the nerve of the American public. In 2026 we try a whiskey finished in pork barrels so Ruby red they match the hues of this film. Brad. The film is West Side Story. The whiskey is Glenn Moringy, Quinta Rubin. And we'll review them both. This. Is the film and whiskey podcast. Welcome to the Film and Whiskey podcast, where each week we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey. I'm Bob Book.

1:00 I'm Brad Gee. And this week, Brad, we are looking at a movie that I could not be more excited to talk about, 1961's West Side Story. I, I don't, I was going to try to like bury the lead a little bit here, Brad. I don't think it's possible for me to do that. Played a little, played a little dour. Yeah, I'm not going to. I'm not going to do it. I have to just get my feelings on this movie out immediately and we can just interrogate them as we go because. I I expect that you'll just like, burst out and dance then, correct? I was going to jump and reach for the sky as I did this, but you know, I'm seated, So what? What are you going to do? A couple years ago, the BFI Sight and Sound Pull was released for this decade and for some reason they did not ask for my list or input on that.

1:50 So I was a little bummed. But in the wake of that, there's a podcast out there called the Contra Zoom Podcast, and they did a really cool thing where they asked a couple 100 critics and podcast hosts to put their lists in if you were going to give your sight and sounds list. And the more I thought about it, I was like, I want to find 10 films that are representative not just of my love for movies, but of like, everything I think cinema can accomplish. And I got real heady. And like, the French New Wave worshipped John Ford. Like, like, that's what I was thinking about. What kind of movies could I bow at the altar of? And the more I thought about it, the more I was like, I think 1961's West Side Story might be one of the 10 greatest films ever made. And it was a shocking conclusion to come to. And then I watched it this time, Brad, And I am absolutely validated and vindicated in that opinion. And that's the gauntlet I'm throwing down for us today, Brad.

2:47 And if that level of enthusiasm wasn't enough, we felt like we just needed to add to it. Because for a movie as dynamic and just wild and awesome as this, Bob and I can't do it just this alone. So we brought our wonderful, incredible, outstanding friend of the show, Patrick H Williams, on Patrick. Welcome back man guys, it's a a pleasure to be here once again. We're so glad to have. You. This is episode #6 for Patrick. What? We're gonna have to just give you like a 1099 here soon, man. You've been on. Here a lot dude, I, I I was oh, you know what's funny I was thinking about this today I, I, I was reminded of my very first appearance on the show, which I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't even discussing a movie.

3:42 It was just like an interview about like my at the time, fairly brief career because I've been coming on the show for many years, but I remember you guys sent me it. It was like, you know, obviously, you know, shocker to hear there was whiskey on the episode and you sent me like a collection of it was. I mean this is what we all tasted on the episode, but it was like a a set of a few different whiskeys from 1 brand. I cannot remember the brand. I don't expect you guys to because you've had a lot of whiskey on the show, but but they were like smaller bottles and and I remember one of them was a was a barrel proof and we were all like, oh, wow, this is intense when we'd like take a little sip of it and on my my bar cart in my living room.

4:28 I still have a bit left in that bottle from the first time I was on the show. Yeah, man, still there. I maybes still good. Does it go bad? I mean, you, it takes a while, yeah. But anyway, it's still it's still there. I saw it there, thought of you guys and happy to be back once again. And also I I just, I just while you were doing the intro, I pour. I opened the bottle of Glenn Morangi Morangi. Do we know which one? Glenn Moringy? It It's it's it's a Scotch, of course.

5:10 Yeah. Come on. So I opened the bottle of Glenn Moringy and I poured myself a glass. Haven't tried it yet, but I will wait until that part of the show. OK, well, thank you for teasing it. It is a whiskey that we notoriously love and the reason that we're drinking it today, our listeners already know how much we love it. But what we're doing this season of the show, it's season #10 for film and whiskey. So folks, if you're new to the show, welcome in. You picked a banger of an episode to start with. This is the 10th season of the show in which we are revisiting every movie we watched in season #1 because we were little baby podcasters back then. The audio quality is not great. And you know, we've come a long way. We're 350 movies almost in now, Brad.

5:51 We've done 500 plus whiskeys. I'd like to think that we have a little bit of experience under our belts. So it's time for us to revisit those initial reviews. May I? And that means we get to revisit, please. In Season 1, how did you select these movies? Because when I was looking at the list of like when you sent it over, like, hey, which one do you want to do? I was like, yeah, kind of a random list of movies. Yeah, it's funny you say that 'cause it was like I made a list of like 100 or 150 movies that I was like, it was like essential movies for Brad to see. I think it was like 300 movies, Bob. Wait, that that was it? Movies that Brad had not seen that was like, that's exactly. What it is? And then it was a random.org, you know, randomize this list and there's season one baby. We've talked about this because if it was like 2025 when we started the podcast, we would have gone to ChatGPT and been like give us the most marketable mix of 32 from this list and we'll SEO friendly.

6:48 No, Yeah, we just. You wouldn't do that because you're cool. Well, obviously. We in the in the words of Ice, we keep Cooley Cool Boy and Brad, that is my segue into talking about this movie today. We're talking about West Side Story, a movie about which I have already thrown down this gauntlet. We are going to get to Patrick's thoughts on the movie, but before we get there, we have to get to Brad's thoughts on the movie and that means it's time for our first segment of the day, Brad explains. Brad's going to give us the movie plot with only 60 seconds sticking on the clock, so let's go ahead and do your take with this little segment that we call Brad explains. Brad explains is the part of the show where Brad breaks down the plot of the movie that he has just seen often for the first time.

7:33 Now obviously this is at least Brad's second time seeing this film, seeing as we did it back in 2019. Brad, it's been about seven years since we've watched this movie for the podcast. Have you experienced West Side Story in any capacity in the interim? I came very close to watching the Spielbergian take on it a few years back, but I just never quite got around to it. I still want to watch Spielberg's version. That was what, 21 or 22? One, Yeah. 21, yeah. So I, I need to get back to it. I I have full intentionality to do it. But no, I have not returned to it, although I think of it fondly often.

8:17 Well, that's good news because I think of it fondly often too, Brad, and I'm I'm holding you to that standard now. Now, what this means is that you have to break down the plot of this movie with full spoilers. So folks, if you have never seen, listened to, heard of West Side Story or the attenuating Broadway musical or the play upon which it is based known as Romeo and Juliet, I would highly recommend that you go familiarize yourself with all those sources and then come back and join us for the rest of this episode. Brad, you get 60 seconds to spoil this movie and go. West Side Story is a film that follows 2 main characters, Tony and Maria, as they try to overcome the division of hatred that exists between Maria's Puerto Rican family and extended family and Tony's Italian gang life.

9:10 And at the end of it, Tony dies. Wow. I am pretty sure Tony's Polish. They call him a polock at many points they I. Guess they do, but let let's be real on they're all portrayed. I'm just going to say probably not the least problematic ethnic crossing we get in this movie is that Tony looks Italian and is presented as Polish. That's that's a fairly innocuous 1. There's a lot more. So they're they're white guys in New York who talk New Yorkie. And I feel like culturally, everyone just kind of associates that with Italian Americans. Yeah. It's. It's kind of the. Truth. Why aren't these guys wearing wife beaters and gold chains?

9:51 This doesn't seem. Vigo, Vigo Mortensen from the Green Book. Exactly. You know what, Patrick? This might actually be a good place to start. So this is obviously filmed mostly on sound stages, but there's some key moments where they film in and around the real New York, most notably in the opening montage, which starts by helicoptering over Manhattan and downtown Manhattan and then slowly, slowly, slowly moving out of Manhattan until you get into. It's all set in Manhattan. Oh, is it the West side? OK. So it's the West side of Manhattan? So you so Bob, you've seen the Spielberg? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

10:32 So do you remember it? So the Spielberg remake, again, it's like, it's not like a radical departure, but the the Spielberg remake makes it a little bit more explicit about exactly where it's set because the also I live in New York and so obviously I'm gonna be a bit more familiar with the locations. But the opening shot of the Spielberg version, it starts and I promise I will not talk about the Spielberg one too much, but it starts on like like a bunch of rubble, like a like a building has has been knocked down. Clearly there's like gonna be construction there. And the camera cranes up and passes a sign that says coming soon, Lincoln Center.

11:15 Yep, this, this all takes place around the Upper West Side of Manhattan, around 66th St. So yeah, it, it is all in Manhattan. This is basically the site of like like the area that was being a lot of it being torn down and was going to be rebuilt as the, you know, pretty fancy like Upper West Side Lincoln Center area, which of course is interesting because Leonard Bernstein, composer is so associated associated with Lincoln Center. And so, yeah, anyway that so basically it starts lower down the helicopter shots and then it kind of goes Uptown to this area. That makes a lot of sense.

11:58 I. I promise I will not be like the New York guy too much on this. Actually, no. You know what throws me off, though, too, is at one point in the helicopter montage, they go over a baseball stadium. And I'm pretty sure that at this point, Shea Stadium had not been opened yet. And Yankee Stadium is obviously in the Bronx, so I'm like, I don't know where this is or what stadium this is. It's got to be 1 of, you know, wherever the Mets played, I guess before Shay became a thing. But who knows, man. Patrick, do you have any sports related insights for us? I, I'm not, I'm not an expert there. I'm, I'm, I'm sorry, but I, I, I will say it. I, I, I do know it was a big deal that this was one of the first musicals to ever like shoot on location.

12:43 That was just not a thing that happened on it anything and and yeah, a a a lot of the the the prologue is is on location and looks good looks really it. Looks real good man. I hear, I will say. Though about this, go ahead, Brad. My struggle was that because most of it is shot on sound stages, the transition from those helicopter shots to the sound stages felt very drastic to me. I don't know how you guys felt about it, but to me it felt just like. I mean the the but the first locations after the helicopter shots are real locations. Oh, are they they're. Like the basketball court and stuff like that where they're all the like the 1st 10 minutes is basically all real locations.

13:28 OK? It's just that it's shot in that this is the thing I'm we're gonna, you know, talk more about the visuals in this movie, but it's just that like, it's that incredible Technicolor look where it's just like it, it, it looks like it, it's just such an incredible like movie reality where it's like, like, even though it's on relocations, it doesn't look like real life. But it's a thing that I was I was thinking about because in the during that prologue, there's a lot of a lot of the shots are like, just like middle of the day, like sunlight directly overhead shots and generally this. I'm so sorry to get technical about like cameras, like right away on the episode.

14:17 But but it was the thing that I was thinking about during the prologue. So with, with digital sensors and like digital cinematography, digital cameras, which is what the majority of like movies and TV are shot on nowadays. The hardest thing to make look good with digital is just exterior day photography. Just like if you, you look at any movie that comes out now and it's like, why does every scene where people you look at like a wicked and it's like, why does it look like garbage whenever they go outside during the day? And this is, is so expensive. And it's just a thing that that is the, the thing that like is so tough with digital and, and you know, film is a lot more forgiving there.

15:00 And you look at the prologue where it's, and it's also like generally in cinematography, it's like you want, if you're shooting exterior day scenes, you want to shoot like early in the morning or later in the day when the sun is like lower in the sky, when it's directly overhead, it has harsh shadows, It's unflattering. It doesn't look good. The prologue of a Side Story they're shooting with like midday sun, sun directly overhead, the time of day that is going to look bad and it looks incredible. And a lot of it does come down to just like the way that like Technicolor of the era looked. Where it's like this is just this is taking the unflattering like reality, like what it would look like on set. And just like the the way these cameras interpret it makes it this like magical movie reality with these like rich colors and and yeah.

15:54 And so that's the thing. It's like it is shot on real locations in just the middle of the day. This was like gritty filming at the time. And it and, and we look at it now and it's like, wow, this is just like just some magical fantasy alternate reality. I'd, I'd be curious to hear the thing that popped into my head as you were talking about that. And you know, maybe it's the setting and and everything, but I feel like do the right thing has a similar like. Really. Bright middle of the day, but it still comes across very bright and. It well, I think. Like engaging. Yeah, that's a great comparison point because it's this, it's this interesting blend of realism and and kind of dream like stylized sets that still accentuate the kind of New York that they want to go for.

16:40 Like it may not be exactly what the real New York looks like, even though they are incorporating real sets at some points. And I think especially in that prologue, they do such a good job of kind of boxing you in to the neighborhood that you're going to be enclosed in. So like, they're kind of at one point on top of like a trash heap and throwing vegetables at somebody. But there's this amazing shot of Bernardo and two of the other sharks. And the entire backdrop of the shot is like a like a tenement building that you can't even see the sky. It's just the building behind them. It's one of my favorite shots in the history of movies. It it's, it's one of the greatest images like ever put on film. And, and I remember watching like years ago watching like DVD extras about the making of the movie.

17:28 And I remember for that shot they dug a hole in the street to get the camera at ground level to get that one shot I which was again a thing that was not done at the time. Right. And but you look at it now, it's like truly like that shot. Like I, I have the like 50th anniversary collector's edition Blu-ray set which comes with a bunch of like, like also this movie isn't on 4K yet, you know, released the 4K. Insane. The the, the 20th, the 50th anniversary was like in 2011, like like, but anyway, but but it comes with like the this set of like like mini like posters of the movie, like like replicas of like posters of like from the time.

18:14 And a bunch of the posters that were produced and released around the world were just of that shot. Like that's how iconic it is. There's like, that shot is so good. Let's make it a poster. Yeah. Well, and to Brad's point, too, there are also these stylized elements that get worked in immediately, even in that opening prologue. So the very first time that Bernardo gets caught by a group of jets and you know, they chase him off and they're making fun of him and you can kind of see the rage start to boil up in him. He's like in an alleyway and you can see the walls on either side of him are not painted bright red. And then he just spins out a frame and spins into a new frame and throws his hand against the wall. And it's a bright red background. And it works freaking incredibly because it's just everything about this movie, Brad, from the choreography to the way the sets are painted to the way it's lit is just meant to it. It's the one of the most expressionistic movies I can imagine.

19:15 It's everything these characters are either internalizing or externalizing. When that comes out of them, it spills all over the walls around them and it's just like, here's the movie that you're going to be experiencing for the next 2 1/2 hours. If you're not on board with this, if you're not on board with gang members like plieing down the street and coming up against bright red walls, you're in for a long 2 1/2 hours. Get on board. And I just love that they kind of throw the gauntlet down like that. Yeah, I was going to say that even the choreography, there's no small movement in this movie. Like it is all they are literally reaching for the skies with almost every single movement.

19:57 That it is a expressive, that it evokes deep emotion and throws it up against whatever the the the canopy of this film is at every single moment. I think this might be a good point. Let's let's get this conversation out of the way. You know, we had to do this with like Brokeback Mountain. And you, you have to like set time aside to be like the gay cowboy movie thing. You got to address it. It's reductionistic like the shape of water. It's the the lady has sex with the fish. It's it's way more than that. And I feel like West Side Story, the reductionistic thing about this is like, I can't get around to the idea of gang members dancing like this. And the more I think about it, first of all, like expand your horizons a little bit, folks, like this is not that hard to do.

20:42 This is a. Movie 2026. Come on, gang members can dance too. But you know, Brad and I were talking about this. We were texting each other earlier. And Brad, you were saying that that's still kind of a barrier to entry for you. And I, I understand that. But I also think that there's something about how expressionistic those sort of outbursts of dance are that if they were doing dances that were more realistic to the kind of people they are, like if they set this movie in 2026 and these guys are like break dancing, it's it's more appropriate to the kind of people that they are. But I still don't know if it if it exudes that sense of joy and openness. And like, we own this street the way that Jerome Robbins choreography does.

21:29 Like yes, it's not tough guy behavior, but it's actually more true to the characters I think. Well, when you consider it that it is not what they would do, it's the emotions of what's going on inside them, then like, yeah, the dance makes sense. I think the first 30 minutes of this movie felt like we were trying to fit a bunch of dis disparate pieces together. And it comes together eventually when the conflict really ignites and the The Jets and the Sharks, when you when you realize that all of the bright visuals, all of the huge choreography, all of the over exaggerated language that they use is a way of covering up and expressing really deep, dark, dangerous things that are happening. Once that starts to come clear that they're actually talking about killing each other, I think that's when the movie starts to come together for me.

22:32 And that's why the first like opening scene when you have these guys who are like tough gang members who are playing down the street. It's kind of like, I don't know if I'm on board with this yet, but once you get that, you get that realization like, oh, this is a musical's way of saying these are teenagers who are going to kill each other. That's when it all really started to come together for me. Patrick I'm, I'm curious, you know, because Brad said the 1st 30 minutes were like the biggest barrier to entry for him. I think for me, actually the last bit of this movie might be the weakest part for me. The very ending is incredible, but I think it gets a little blocked down in in plot mechanics towards the end and kind of hurtling towards that climate rumble. Yeah, that.

23:16 OK. I was going to ask you, like, if there's a part of this movie that doesn't work for you, what stretch might it be? It sounds like you and I are kind of in the same spot here. Yeah, I, I, I mean, I don't think I've I've I've actually like given like my general take on the movie, which is I, I love it so much. I it is this this is this is actually my favorite musical. Let's go. This is an like, so OK, here's here's my big take on West Side Story. And then I, I was thinking about this as I was re watching it today. So you know, the, the music is by Leonard Bernstein. This is you could make a, a strong case that this is the greatest music written in the 20th century. This is just like just the music alone is just one of the most, I think, staggering artistic achievements in the history of mankind.

24:14 It is just like, it is just just the score, the, the, the like, the, the like the songs, every bit of music for like 2 1/2 hours is, I think, just one of just like some of the best music of all time. And, and so this music is, I'm sorry, this movie, obviously the, you know, Broadway show before it. And then the movie, The movie is basically a ballet set to some of the greatest music ever written. And as I'm watching it again today and I've seen this movie many times, I'm thinking and, and I'd already just been thinking about this recently, just like with like other stuff where I'm like genuinely like, like there's no like objective answer to like what is like the greatest achievement in cinema or what is the point of cinema or anything like that? But I what I, what I was thinking about a lot while watching this is like, I think like one of, if not the most significant, most important things that cinema does is simply just the combination of movement and light and color synthesized with music.

25:28 And this movie does that beyond just telling the story. This movie synthesizes the greatest music ever written with some of with with just some of the most astounding capturing of movements and color and light of all time. And there are just multiple sequences in this movie where I'm just sitting. And I've seen this so many times before. I'm sitting here in my living room and I'm just like getting full body chills, like coming close to tears just because of like what I'm watching and hearing. Not even because I'm like, I'm so absorbed the story just just just like the, the, the sheer like sensation of of this as like an audio like visual experience. It is.

26:18 It's so staggering, which is why, and I promise I won't break it up too much. It seems insane that like, I do actually think the Spielberg version is almost an improvement in every way. I think it might be even better. Oh man. Wow. I, I, I, I think, I think the, the Spielberg movie was my favorite film of 2021. I, I would periodically while re watching this today, I would like finish a sequence and be like, OK, I'm just gonna like pop in the 4K disc of the Spielberg 1 and now watch his prologue and I'd be like, damn, yeah, his prologue is even better. And I OK so. Let me let me push back on this because I I let let's get this conversation out of the way too.

27:01 I want to talk just a little bit about the Spielberg version. You have to and let it lead into a conversation about Robert Wise, who I think deserves more conversation than he gets, generally speaking. So the Spielberg version for me doesn't work as well as this movie and it's damn good. Like it's Steven Spielberg making West Side Story with Tony Kushner writing the script. Like, what do you come on? It's going to be baseline 7 1/2 movie. Like, you can't get worse than that. I have long said that the reason musicals aren't as good as they used to be is because people forget that the most dynamic thing you can do with a camera in a musical is to sit it still and just pan or track along with the movement of the dancers.

27:46 Like if you watch the old MGM musicals, especially in, you know, Academy ratio, it's like, here you go, Gene Kelly, here's a a broomstick and you're going to dance around now. And the entire number is just like Stanley Donnan's, like, I'm going to set a camera right here. We're going to kind of go like this. And we're going to go like this and we're going to go on a horizontal plane. And that's the whole scene. And there is so much emphasis on the movement of bodies and it's not being accented with hard cuts and it's not being accentuated with dramatic push insurance or swoops. And Spielberg, I love the guy, but like, he's the king of the wonder. And he's the king of like, I am moving this camera and we're exploring the space with the camera. And I think that there are sometimes in in the new West Side Story where that is like a revelatory experience. And I think that there are sometimes where it actually takes away from the dynamism of the choreography. And I also, just like Yanish Kaminsky, also love the guy. There's something about his digital cinematography. Wait, Yanish doesn't shoot digitally? Is it all film?

28:52 It's all film. Well then it's. It's got to be the color grade then, man, because like, there's something about the way this movie is shot that has like, it's just like this patina of artificiality that I couldn't crack in a way that, like, the 61 version, which is like, significantly more artificial, draws me in. I don't know what it is, Patrick. Maybe you can speak to it a little bit, but yeah. I don't. Well, well, I mean like, like, I mean, Yanish has his thing that he does that not everyone loves. I tend to love it. I think Wes, I think the 2021 W Side Story is some of the best work he's ever done.

29:32 Where it's also, I mean, it's similar to what we're saying about the original 1, where like it's not going for realism at all. But but it's like I again, I was re watching sequences from it today where just the way he like blasts in like additional sunlight, like like he's able to have like exterior day scenes where people still have like perfect glowing edge lights because he has such control over everything. But I but yeah, it, it, it is especially like more, it's a more stylized look than, you know, most modern movies. But I just just again, it's, it's a, it's a simple like my, my all of my takes on the Spielberg one are largely just like, you know, me repeating stuff that I feel about the 61 version as well.

30:20 Where it it's just like, oh, right. In this sequence, I just levitate because it is just so staggeringly put together and like it's, you know, I think it like America in the 61 version might be my favorite one in I mean it, it's my favorite song in, in, in the film. And I think this has like probably like 6 or seven of the best songs ever written for a musical. But and then the Spielberg version of America is staged so differently. Like it's outside in the streets in the middle of the day. And I, I, I and so we, it, it feels so distinct, but also just what like the like the escalation of that sequence and, and, and also his Spielberg's ability to just know when to hold on a wide shot of people dancing, a thing that no one has done in a musical in basically in 50 years. Is it just like, I, I, I, yeah.

31:21 And then also, so like, I, I think his stage of the musicals is just like staggering genius level stuff. And but then it's also like, I think narratively the Spielberg 1 improves in in many ways over the 61 version, whether it's like just moving around some of the songs, like the way it moves up cool, the way it handles the post rumble stuff. And then also just like the way it like it, it deepens Tony's character, the way it, it gives the Puerto Ricans like more of a culture and lets them speak in unsubtitled Spanish. It the, the way it handles like anybody's it, it, it, it makes so many smart choices where I'm just like, damn, they took my my favorite musical and action and made something that doesn't because it's tough. You can't just be like, oh, now you don't need the original anymore because this one is so good. Because what like the Spielberg, the Spielberg 1 is still in conversation with the original because there there's stuff in it that's that's also like pretty similar. And so you can't have that without the original. And I just, I truly love them as like companion pieces to each other.

32:34 And, and I promise I will not keep being like, well, in the Spielberg, won't they do this? But like, but we have to talk about it because it is like what it was what it was at now it just seemed like a psychotic thing to do. It's like this is like, you know, like, like just everyone agrees this is like one of the top five musicals ever made and you're going to remake it. And also you're not going to do a wildly different thing. You're not going to like, change the setting. No, you're just going to kind of do it again. And, and yeah, and, and I and, and he did it. And also, you know, it's good to have like, a Maria that's not a white woman in brown face.

33:14 OK, so we will also get to that conversation. I want to talk a little bit about Robert Wise, the director of this movie. And you know, to be fair, there are Co directors of this film. So Jerome Robbins is the guy who conceived, right? Well, he he conceived of West Side Story. He's a director and choreographer on Broadway. He brings the Broadway show to life and then gets hired to Co direct this film. And apparently on set Robins directed the bulk of the musical numbers and he was in charge of choreographing them obviously too. And all the dancers say that he was like a a pain in the ass to work with, but he was like the best experience they ever had. He's such a perfectionist though that as he's shooting these numbers, they're getting more and more over budget. And so by the time he got about 60% of the musical numbers shot, he gets fired off of the movie.

34:03 Robert Wise is like you're the guy now. You got to finish this movie now. Robert Wise to his credit brings Jerome Robbins back for the edit and they they kind of Co edit the movie together. Robert Wise gets his career started in Hollywood as an editor. You may know him from editing a little movie called Citizen Kane in 1941. Then he becomes a director of his own. He makes sci-fi classic The Day the Earth Stood Still in the early 1950s. He makes this movie, he does The Haunting in 1963, another horror classic, and then he's like, you know what? Let's do West Side Story Part 2, but with a bigger budget. We're going to make The Sound of Music now and then he makes what may be pound for pound, the most beautiful movie I've ever seen with The Sound of Music.

34:47 The opening 30 minutes of The Sound of Music. There's a shot, Brad, and we talked about it in that episode. It's in the opening number where Maria's up on the hill singing the Sound of Music and she just kind of like weaves in and out of a group of trees. And it's filmed from inside the tree line. And the trees are like in silhouette, but everything outside is not. And it's like, it's like the John Ford Searcher shot but done with trees. And it's like, I it's, it's mind blowing. And Robert Wise does not get the credit he deserves for some of the visuals that he is responsible for putting into the cinema lexicon. We've already talked about the shots in this movie. I just think, guys. You know, also, Bob, you're not going to leave about the the final major installment in his filmography. Now which one's that?

35:37 Star Trek The Motion Picture. Oh well, of course I forgot that was Robert Wise. Not even The Wrath of Khan We're talking about Star Star Trek One, baby. That's, that's the, that's the final thing where I'm like, that's like a different era of movies where he did that and it's just like, it's a crazy filmography. And then you tack that on at the end. Right. But I mean, like, how else do you bookend a career that kick starts with Citizen Kane? It's got to be Star Trek The Motion. Picture. Well, there's. There's no other way to go out. It's just one of those things where, you know, he he's like an early precursor to people, you know, like a Richard Donner or something where it's like, yeah, they they they can do kind of do everything that they're not an auteur. You, you don't know what a Robert Wise movie is, but it's like, oh, right, this guy is just a very good filmmaker and a good storyteller and can adapt his approach to the material And and it's like, right, can make a landmark horror movie, landmark sci-fi movie.

36:41 And then two of the greatest, most iconic, most enduring musicals of all time. Yep, to to me, I feel like, and I I say this hopefully in the best taste possible. I feel like the patron St. of that type of director is Robert Rob Reimer like. Oh, oh, yeah. Yeah. No. Rob Reimer, a perfect example. Yeah, right. How would you look at those movies and be like, oh, yeah, obviously the same guy, you know, made like, Spinal Tap and Misery. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. They share so much DNA. Yeah, I mean, and. And with Robert Wise, you know, guys, we haven't talked about the movie like the guts of the movie at all. Like we haven't talked about any of the weird cultural issues we're going to talk about. We haven't talked about the Romeo and Juliet adaptation or really the music or any of that, because I wanted to dedicate this front part to just kind of gushing about the cinematic experience of this movie.

37:31 Bob, you texted me like halfway through and you were like, Brad, this is a religious experience. It is I see that as an actively religious person, Brad, like watching this movie, Patrick picked this movie and I'm so happy that he did because he made a a YouTube video a couple years ago, a video essay that was called something like what makes a movie cinematic? And it's it was about like trying to define what it means for something to be cinematic. And when Richard Baymer meets Natalie Wood at the dance and they have this crazy impressionistic, like everybody else gets smudged except them, they go into this ballet where the whole thing fades to black.

38:16 And then he starts the Maria number and it's it's a rear projection behind him. It's not even a set. It's like a it's a it's a movie going on behind him that is so fake. And he's clearly just walking in place. And then it fades to a a purple hued New York street and then it cuts outside to a set and the whole thing is so over saturated that these colors are just bleeding into each other. And it ends with him walking in front of this like green stained glass factory or something. And it is the most euphoric, orgasmic release of a shot. Brad. Like, I don't know how if you love movies and you watch a scene like that, I don't know how you don't like just end that by having by needing a cigarette. It's that good, dude.

39:04 Have you, Bob? Have you ever seen this in a theatre? Yes, it was my. I have not and I really really want to. They did a Fathom event of it a couple years ago and my my oldest son was like 4 years old and we have a movie theatre 5 minutes from our house and I was like this is going to be his first movie in the theatre and I am going to arrange for my wife to pick him up at intermission before the stabby bits start and so. I don't believe they live happily ever after. He was like, this is the most fun, joyous movie. These, I'm sure these people learn how to get along, after all. But yeah, Patrick, to your point, man, seeing it in the theater is just it's next level. I know.

39:46 Well, this is the thing. Like, I, I, I, I live in New York. We have like a million Rep theaters that play like everything all the time. Like how that, that said, I'm, I'm now flashing back to like, Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, you see of the, of the moving image definitely like has played this on 70mm and I just missed it. But I it, it, it, I mean, it's one of those things it's like it like if you live in New York and like you haven't seen like Lawrence of Arabia on 70, it's like, don't worry about it. It'll it'll play again in six months. Like you know you're going to see it eventually. Brad I'm curious because I don't think I could have talked about like the cinematic experience this way when we started this podcast. It's one of those things, you know, I, I grew up in a Pentecostal church and they used to talk about the Holy Spirit and how to explain it to people. And one, I remember one guy, his, his patented phrase was it's better felt than Telt.

40:42 And I think that that is like a perfect way of explaining the cinematic experience. Like, I don't really know how to explain something being cinematic. And then it's like you watch West Side Story and it's like you get it now. I was going to say, you can't describe Gandalf and Amer riding down the hill with the blast of light and defeating the Urakai. You have to experience it like that's that is cinema. And and I'm with you, man, West Side Story has it in spades. And like I said, it's once you pair the audaciousness of the movie with the emotional depth of like what's actually happening within the story, that once you kind of pair those two things together, this movie falls into that like Golden Valley of Capital C cinema in a way that you just sit back afterwards and you're like, man, I just had nachos. I just had sex.

41:44 I'm about to have nachos. It's the best thing in my life. This is this is weirdly the second time in a week I have heard people bring up that part in the movie. What if a movie that most people I think doesn't forget exists? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember. Those. That's one of those moments that you're like Adam drivers going places. I don't know where he's going, but. He's the man. Do comedy again. Line reading of the century. Brad, we, we are due for a break here in a minute and I think this is the best time to get this little tidbit out because there's really going to be no other appropriate time. You mentioned Lord of the Rings. We just released an episode folks, on the Lord of the Rings 25th anniversary. So I'd love for you to go back and listen to that after this one.

42:29 There is a connection, Brad, to West Side Story. OK, if you remember the dance at the gym and the real goofy looking guy that comes out and he's like, all right, boys and girls. That man's name is John Astin, who would go on to be Gomez Adams in The Addams Family and more importantly to sire Sean Astin, also known as Sam Wise Gamji. So Sean Astin's dad makes an appearance in West Side Story. Brad. We we didn't talk about this in Lord of the Rings at all. I still just can't get the idea out of my head. That said, the man who played Sam Wise Gamji, also played the brother in 501st dates where he's where?

43:15 Sorry, 50. 500 is way too many first dates. We just reviewed 500 Days of Summer. I think it was in my, it was in my brain. Did you do a A season on just like number movies? That's a great idea. That should be the next one. We'll do 51st dates and then 300. It'll be great. Yeah, just do them in escalating like like. Numerical order, yeah. I mean, look, you know, you've got now like 428 Blank Slater movies, so you have a lot to work with. Yeah, we'll we'll have to end with Bob's favorite movie of all time, 2001 A Space Odyssey. Yes, Yeah, yeah.

43:55 Perfect. All right, Brad, I think it is time for us to get to a break and I, I don't mean to rush us into one here, but I am super excited to drink this whiskey. So what do you say we take a trip over to Scotland and try some Glenmorengy? Bob, I'm so excited that I've already drank my entire glass so. Let's get to it. Let's get to it, man. All right, so today we are returning to one of our all time favorite whiskeys on this podcast. Brad and I, I know I'm I'm giving it a high bar to measure up to, but back in 2019, we were working our way through a sampler pack of small bottles of Glenn Moringy.

44:39 Because let's be honest, our budget for this podcast was zero. And we're like, look, a sample pack that's four weeks of whiskey right there. And so we worked our way through the Glenn Moringy lineup and in the 3rd, I believe the third one we tried was the Glen Moringy Quinta Ruben 12 year. Now this is a Scotch whiskey that is finished in Ruby port casks. And at the time it was a 12 year Scotch. It has since been replaced with a 14 year age statement. And Brad, I don't think we've gotten back around to trying the 14 year. So I'm really excited to dive into this and see, you know, just based on our memory, does the two extra years of aging before the finishing in Ruby port casks help this a little bit now?

45:21 Just really briefly, Brad, what are your, what are your recollections of Kinsa Reuben? Oh my gosh. The, the big thing I remember was that it cost like $52 back in the day. And it felt like it was the absolute best value in the world of whiskey because it, it was very approachable. It had a lot of really nice honey flavors. It had a little bit of that raisiny grape influence from the port and at the price it was at for a well aged Scotch, I just remember being blown away. Now I do have one bit of bad news for you Bob, but I'm very disappointed. I was looking on the Glenmorengy website today and in the four in the little 4 pack it had like the regular 12 year the the Kintoruben and it also had the nectar. Do you remember what it was called, Bob? Well, well, a French speaker like you, Brad, would call it the nectar.

46:23 Duh. Glen Moringy has officially changed the name of Nectar to the Nectar. No. 100% gold. Yes. It's not golden nectar dude. That's 100% because of you. They got so mad at you butchering the French language that they were like, we're just changing the name of this. Probably. No, while we're butchering things, Brad, I falsely remembered that this was finished on Pedro Jimenez Sherry casts, which I think is a that might be the La Santa that does that. And I was going to make some some comparison about how, you know, this represents the melding of of cultures the same way that West Side stories should have.

47:09 And that's not even true because this is Ruby Port we're looking at today. Now, Patrick, you're going to join us for this review today. I think this is at least the second time you've tried whiskey with us. I know that you are partial, I mean, to all kinds of whiskey, but you're historically an Irish whiskey drinker. I mean where? Are you at on Scotch? That's mostly. Loyalty toward my people. Sure, sure. Yeah, I'm not actually saying it's superior to Scotch. I, I, you know, I, I, I love not, not like I, I love plenty of bourbons and scotches and Japanese whiskeys and yeah. Is is what you're trying to say is I love Scotch. Scotchy Scotch.

47:50 Scotch, Scotch, Scotch, Scotch into my belly. Yeah, Yeah, I think. I think that's what I'm saying. All right, so guys, let's dive in here. Glenn Moringy is a Highland Scotch whiskey. Now there are many, many Scotch producing regions, five major ones, but we typically think that space side Scotch is kind of the most delicate and and floral. And then if you kind of want to step one step up in intensity, you go to the Highland region. There's a little bit more of that kind of like char ashiness at the back of it. You get a little bit of that kind of burn. It's not obviously it's not peated the way that Isla Scotch would be. And so it's a nice kind of middle ground entry point region into drinking Scotch.

48:32 And this one being finished on port is going to have a ton of that sweet character too. Brad, we've already given a few nosing and tasting notes on this, but let's go ahead and dive in in earnest. What are your nosing notes on the Quinta Reuben The. The nose for me has all sorts of just really nice fruit flavors going on. It's got a bit of a Peach vibe. There's a lot of raisins that I think you're getting because of the poor influence. It has like a honey drizzle that I really like. And then the longer I spent with it, it reminded me of like, not a nutty, but like a milk chocolate covered toffee. That just was a really, really beautiful note for me.

49:15 I, I still love this Bob. It's a nine out of 10 on the nose. Yeah, dude, sometimes when I'm, when I'm nosing whiskey it, I try to pair it with like mental images. And there's like 2 movie related images that this brings up to me. And one of them is like the very beginning of Walt Disney's Pinocchio when Jiminy Cricket like takes 1 coal out of the fire to warm his ass with. And there's just this, like there's just this deep amber glow to that coal. And it's like, that's the amber that's in the nose of this. It's that. And it's like the Jurassic Park mosquito is like that's the, that's the amber I'm getting on this, man. It's, it's just so rich and decadent. There's toffee there.

50:04 There's definitely some dark stone fruit like a plum, prune, Raisin going on. It's just like you're imagining these kind of cascades, cascades of like butterscotch that are going to come off of this. It's a 9 1/2 out of 10 for me, Brad. You just pulled from the recesses of my latent memory a childhood image of Pinocchio. Jiminy crickets, ass. That's my nose on this whiskey, Patrick. It's over to you now, man Jesus Christ. So look, guys, I, I talk about movies professionally. I don't talk about whiskey professionally. This is I'm just feeling now like anytime I have done like I like a wine tasting are like a like, you know, fresh brewed coffee tasting where I'm like, I don't, I don't know how to talk like my, I, I am just not trained at at, at like at reading my palate or even now my just like my, my sense of smell and interpreting and and being able to articulate it. I will say I, I generally agree with everything you guys are saying.

51:22 I did, you know, I've got that there. There is definitely the sort of like, you know, warm amber feeling from from that there There is the sort of like like the slight like fruity honey scent, but I have nothing to to like original to contribute to this. I am so bad at this. Why did I ask? Well, here's the here's the whiskey part too. I guess there's. One way that I would, I would encourage you to do this, Patrick, is just you've tried Scotch before. Yeah. Let's let's map this on a one to 10 in relation to the other scotches that you've tried. And like, is it approaching the upper levels of that or is it like somewhere in the middle?

52:05 What? What? Are are are we talking just the nose right now? Just the nose for now. Yep. I'm also, it's funny, I I haven't, Yeah, I'm usually, I feel like I I usually keep like either Irish whiskey or bourbon stocked in my apartment. I'm not not you. I don't have like a go to Scotch, although that said it might be this one now but I'm just. Expanding your horizon. Yes, I will. You know what I'm going to say, Nose. I'm going to go with 8.5 out of 10 because I don't feel comfortable going higher than that because I'm like what am I talking about? That's a fair and risk averse number. I like it, Brad.

52:49 Let's let's jump into the taste here 'cause this thing is just freaking phenomenal. Yeah, I I'm, I'm sticking at a nine out of 10 on the pallet. For me, this is like a light roast coffee. The honey sticks around the the Peaches almost turns a little bit more stone. I don't know, the flavor transforms into like a pear vibe for me. It's a little less sweet and a little more out of whatever. It's not savory, but whatever pear is more of than Peach, that's what it is, Patrick. I also don't always do so nice with my words. Brad, I think, I think you're doing very well.

53:30 Oh, thank you so much. And but there is a nice gentle sweetness to this that reminds me of like a fresh simple syrup that you just made off the stove. So this like has a really pleasant, not overpowering, but just a good pleasant envelopes you in the warmth of its niceness kind of palette that I'm I'm at a nine out of 10 again on. Yeah, I'm going to be at a 9 1/2 again. Like, I don't think that this is the most complex whiskey we've ever tried, Brad, but it is like right down the middle. It's perfect for someone that's just getting into Scotch because it's got a ton of sweetness to it. And and the fruit notes that are there. It's kind of like, you know, like when you're eating a plum or an app or any kind of stone fruit and you're trying to get flesh off of the seed at the end and it's just a little bit more bitter than the rest of the flesh. It kind of reminds me of that.

54:22 Like I get notes of apricot here, but it's not super decadent or like super sickly sweet apricot. It's it's dark stone fruit. I get a little bit of red wine on this, obviously. And then there's just a few waves of I get butterscotch here. I get the, you know, like if you've ever had not like chocolate covered nuts or, or fruits, but like the yogurt covered ones. Yeah, it reminds me of that a little bit. And I really do like that. There's like that layer of like fattiness to it. It's freaking good, man. 9 1/2 for me. Patrick, how you feeling about the about the actual palate, the taste, the experience? It's really it, it's it's really nice. There is like it's sweet, but not too sweet. It's smooth, but not too it's it still has like a bite to it. It's still, it's like, you know, it's like you've had like a spoonful of, of hot soup that is just not too hot. So like you're still at like, oh, wow. I'm like, yeah, I'm like feeling like it like in my whole head, but it's not uncomfortable.

55:28 And so, so, so it, it makes you like not want to rush it, but then just actually sit and kind of like savor each like, you know, each sip thinking about the, the flavors you're experiencing. Again, like Bob, I don't the way the, the language you used to describe that. And, and again, I, I like you're saying, I'm like, Oh yeah, that's, that's pretty good. I never in a million years would I have thought of like, you know, fattiness our our stuff like. I Patrick, I look at you and I'm like, I see a guy that's never weighed more than $1.60 and really I'm more than I. I'm just saying you, you've got very thin and athletic built. I got to.

56:16 Dig deep into like my fat guy history and I pulled notes from like all the candies I ate when I was a kid and like I there's an encyclopedic memory of fruit by the foot and stuff like it's, it's OK, man, I get it. No, it's like, I, I like food, I cook and all of that. I will say I'm just amazed that like, wow, the image I'm giving is, is weighing under 160 lbs because I, you know, I don't, I, I'm like, I'm like, I haven't weighed. I haven't weighed 160 since I was to be clear, I weigh. Is that weird? I shouldn't talk about my weight on like publicly. It's OK. Now I weigh like in. Any case? Yeah, OK.

56:57 But yeah, but Brad, I'm basically I've been in the one 65170 range since I was like 17 and. It's never. And listen, you guys, you guys look great. Thanks in any case. Bob, so do. You, Patrick. And you're also thank you so much and, and the, the, the, the lighting and everything, it's like it's really working for you. Thank you so much, man. What's your score and the taste here, Patrick? I love this episode guys. I just gotta say it. Taste. I'm smashing that 9 button baby. 9 button. All right, Brad, finish. I'm gonna, I'm gonna breeze through this a little bit here. I still think it's darn good. It's long lasting. It doesn't tip too bitter for me. You definitely get a little bit of that. Sort of like Scotchy. What's the word like unsweetness? Like it's not bitter.

57:41 It's just like it. It's it's a herbaceous, herbaceousness for sure. I don't know that it's a huge drop off from the other parts of the experience, but I think if I had to pick one of these three categories that's the weakest, it's this one. I'm still going to give it a nine man. This is just like a Scotch that was genetically engineered in a lab for my palate. Yeah. Can I say a thing that's been interesting about the experience of drinking? It is remind me of where you guys are. Ohio. Ohio, right? How cold is it in Ohio right now? It's. Getting bitter. It's like like 9��. We're literally on the cusp of like a 2 foot downfall of yeah it's a new wild.

58:27 We're not going to get that much snow, but like, it's got like today it's cold tomorrow it's going to be brutally cold And then Sunday is our big snow day, which I'm, I'm like, you know, if we bring 6 inches, we'll be lucky. I, I, I would love 2 feet, but, but basically I, I, I went out to like run some errands, like in the neighborhood, you know, walking around like shortly before I came on to do this and I realized when I'd, when I would sip the whiskey and I was like, oh, just being outside for a bit, basically like chapped my lips. And so each sip of this has like my, my top lip just like buzzing.

59:10 Not, it's not painful, but I'm just like, it is. It has been a physical experience where I'm just we're like, that is a major part of each sip of this whiskey just due to coming in from the cold. So, yeah, so that it's hard to separate that part out because that would normally be it all. Right, Brad and Patrick, this is going off the rails. We need a score on the finish here. Where are we out on the finish? Finish. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go with an 8.5. Dude, 8.5 for me it's it turns into a little bit of like a sour tart cherry. The pear sticks around, there's barley. It gets for me, the fattiness comes through on the finish. It turns into like a little bit of a salted butter. 8 1/2 I think balance wise I'm actually going to drop down just a little bit.

59:56 I'm going to say this is an 8 out of 10 balance and that like. The reason it comes up that high is because I think it it takes all the flavors it's shooting for and nails it. The reason it's not any higher is because it's not a very complex Scotch. Like we've had some wild scotches that give you the whole panoply of experience. This one is not that, but in a very good way. So I think I'm at an 8 out of 10 on balance. Yeah, balance is hard because when you're only doing like one or two notes, I feel like you can artificially inflate your balance score because it's like, Oh yeah, I picked those notes up all the way through. And and that's great because you don't get that sort of roller coaster variance that we get sometimes, Brad, you know, from the nose to the taste to the finish. I do think that this is not a super complex whiskey, but I also think that it's like what it's doing, it's damn good at. And I still think I'm going to be at a nine out of 10 on this. Yeah.

1:00:55 I, I, I think I'm going 8.5 again, just being conservative because I'm like, you know, I don't want to go too high and then try 20 more whiskeys and be like, shit. I I really. Felon score haunts me, I know, but. But it but it really is. It's just like, like I've just been sitting here just sipping away on it and it's just like, it is like it feels like rich and sweet and each one is satisfying. And the more I drink it, the more I'm less like, yeah, I will. Once I finish this bottle, I will buy more. Yeah. Oh, it is crushable. This, this is the thing. That's why I have to come back on this podcast all the time. Because like the other times when you guys have like sent me a whiskey, I've gotten like hooked on it.

1:01:39 Like when you sent me the Sexton, I was like, oh, I like I got my mom into that. Let's go. Yeah, now whatever. I visit my parents, they've got a bottle there at their place. Well, here's another one that you can introduce your parents to. And Brad, that gets us into into the value score. Now we always judge value by what we can buy this for in the state of Ohio, mostly because Ohio is a state controlled liquor Bureau. So they set the price and then that's the price it is across the state, which is great. You don't have like super high markups from store to store. So Brad, what is this retailing for in the state of Ohio? This is retailing for $69.99. Wow, OK.

1:02:23 Which is a down a little bit. It had gotten up to like, I think the last time I saw it, it was like $77. Yeah. It was like $80, which is is pushing the upper limits of what I would pay for this. Yeah. So you said it's at what is it now, 68? 70 dollars $70 Yep. This is an 8.5 out of 10 on value for me Brad. I like I was ready to come down if it was in the 80s range but like for 70 bucks I can't think of many this is. 70 bucks in Ohio I I just searched for this on Uber eats and I can get it delivered to my apartment for 65.

1:03:03 Yeah, there you go, man. Let's go in New York City, famously an expensive place. Yeah, Now I will say, Bob, one of my favorite things to do, especially with older films, is whenever they mention a dollar amount, I immediately go to inflation calculator and look up like, how much is George Bailey going to make if he takes this offer from Potter and I every year? I'm like, babe, that'd be like him going from making 58,000 a year to 350,000 a year and she puts up with it and is like, what?

1:03:45 That's crazy. In 2019 when we first priced this out it was $52. Do you know what $52 in 2019 could is is inflated to? Today I do $6068. What so it really has not risen at all that which is great to hear. I mean it's, it's adjusted with the market. Yep, I, I was. I was very happy to see that. I I'm with you, man. I think this is just a stunning value in the world of Scotch. It like that part of you that wants things to be as cheap as they used to be. Still, I'm like, oh, we had $52. That was a great price. I actually have a great memory the morning that we unknowingly at the time, the morning that we were going to have our second child, that evening, my wife went into labor, a buddy of mine texted me and was like, hey, I found a bottle of Quinta Rubin on sale for $48.

1:04:47 Do you want 1? And I was like, yes, I want that bottle of Quinta Rubin. And that's the last bottle of Quinta Rubin that I bought. And so I still feel very proud that I bought a bottle for $48 the day that my the day before my second child was born. Have you told your child about this? I haven't. I should my my mother hates this. But my kids will see me taste whiskey and take notes and stuff and they always ask to smell it. So I'm always like, yeah, sure you can smell the whiskey. My 5 year old will smell like, you know, smells like apples. Have they ever asked to try it?

1:05:30 I I have very clearly from the start been like this is a daddy drink. Oh yeah. And we don't. It's the thing where like, I remember when I was maybe like 12, I think, oh, it was like on New Year's Eve, my family was going over to like a friend's house and, and, and one of the people there was Scottish and they were like, oh, as you enter the house, you know, like have you have a sip of Scotch. And my parents were like, yes, it's, it's a sip. The kids can do it. And, and I remember having that sip when I was like 12 years old and being like, this is a horrible. This is. The. Worst thing in the world, who would ever want to drink this?

1:06:12 And let me tell you, for several years, like I was in no rush to to be like swiping Scotch from the liquor cabinet. I would, I would, I would tell people like whiskey is the most repellent substance known to man. It should be illegal to drink that it's so bad. So I'm just saying if you, I don't know. Here. Here we are a few decades later. Yeah, Also as not a parent, I'm not going to be like, hey, yeah, give your kids some alcohol. Yeah, it'll be fun. It'll it'll teach them good lessons. Yeah. I'm I I will say nothing. I'm just saying that was a thing that I experienced as a child. My, my kids will ask me when they can have it and my wife will be like, you know, when you're like 16 to 18 and I'll be like, you know, like when you're 12 or so.

1:07:00 And here's the thing. Chances are at 12, they're not going to like it. Amen. Goddess, there are certain times where the conversation gets off the rails a bit. And I think to myself, is this Patreon content or is this the world doesn't need to know that Brad's giving his kids whiskey at 12 contents, And I'm really toeing that line right now. So I think perhaps what we should do is let's get Patrick's score on the value and then we'll give our final scores here. On the value boys, I'm I'm going with A9 seeing, seeing the like, oh, in, in, in a, you know, expensive ass New York City.

1:07:40 I can get this for 65 bucks. I'm yeah, oh, I'm, I'm going to get more of this. Cheaper cheaper than the Midwest prices. So I I. Like what's going on there? Nothing. Nothing is cheaper here. The cost of living is the only thing we had on you guys and now we've lost that. It's unbelievable. Haha yeah, it Zoron's New York has already taken effect. This this this only changed in the last three. Weeks, right, exactly. All right, Brad, I am coming out to a incredibly high 45.5 out of 50 on this bad boy. Now for some context, the 35 out of 50 mark is where we typically would start giving something a thumbs up and like a soft recommendation.

1:08:29 If you hit a 40, it's kind of a no brainer. 45 is rarefied error around here. And yes, it's it's boosted by the value score for sure. But I just think all around, I cannot think of a better kind of like starter Scotch for somebody to get into if you are looking to get into Scotch like stamp of approval on this one for sure. Absolutely, If you really want to get in in the most cost effective way, go buy Monkey Shoulder. It's like 35 bucks. It's a blended Scotch. It is delicious. If you want to get into the single malt world, though, that there's nothing better than Kinto Reuben. I am coming out to a 42 out of 50, which still is like I, I don't know about maybe 15% of our whiskeys that we review come out to a 40 or higher. Yeah.

1:09:23 Like. It's not a lot, so for me this still stands up as one of the absolute best whiskeys we've had. It is one of the absolute best introductory scotches. This is 2 thumbs up all around. Patrick, where are you coming out? I end up with a 43.5, which is again, I'm on the lower end only because I'm being conservative, being I, I, I would call myself a, a moron when it comes to whiskey, an enthusiastic moron. And so this is me being like, I think this is. Great. Diet, but I will never go up to like an educated whiskey connoisseur and be like, this is the best thing you're ever going to drink because I probably, I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'll just say I personally likes this a lot. We have had whiskeys that cost thousands of dollars. That are.

1:10:21 Delicious. And I think that you you go through like, the bell curve of like, pretentiousness when you get into something like drinking whiskey and you want to, like, chase the expensive bottles. And then on the other side of it, you're back to drinking the stuff you drank when you started. And you're like, oh, yeah, this $50 bottle of Scotch is, is all I want to drink anymore. And maybe you appreciate it more now. Yeah, 100. Percent, you really do. Yeah. So you've gotten. Like happy as a. Sponsor on this show, right? Oh, absolutely. Season. Two, we had a we had a few friends send. Us a bunch. Of there's a fancy lineup of whiskey called B Tac Buffalo Trace Antique Collection that they also own. Pappy and I, I just spent like 10. Episodes in a.

1:11:07 Row trashing B.Tech, not that it's bad, it's very good whiskey. But just. The marketing and all all the stuff behind it and it. So it is pretty much a running joke at this point that Buffalo Trace will never sponsor this show. Never, never. I don't know. Maybe, maybe they're desperate for your approval now. They. Might be that that's that's the game. I'm ready for you. Next that Glenn Moore and G changed the. Name. All right, well guys, you know who else is an enthusiastic? Moron. Tony in West Side Story. So guys, it's back. It's time for us to get back into talking about this movie.

1:11:47 What do you say, Brad? Let's get to it, Bob. All right, everybody. That was Glenn Moringy, King to Ruben. 14 year old single malt Scotch What what an incredible experience. A true A. True chef's kiss. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, man. You know what else is an absolute? Chef. 'S kiss of an experience, Bob. I can only imagine Brett. 2. Facts and a falsehood. Brad is going to. Try to stump you. Ball 2. You are right and what is wrong? 2 facts and a falsehood. 2 facts and a falsehood is the part of the show where Brad presents me. With three items as fact about the making of this movie, one of which is a complete lie.

1:12:36 Brad, I have had a very up and down season at 2 facts and a falsehood. You really should patch yourself on the back for how often you've been able to trip me up, and that includes times where we have had a guest host picking with me. We have been LED astray multiple times this season. We have been LED astray. We, we being. Me and the guest. Oh, OK. Now. Patrick has seen this movie in his words a lot of times and so I I feel pretty confident today. Now you may undercut that confidence with some really out there trivia, but now again, for the context for listeners, if I take Patrick's advice about which one of these 3 facts is actually a falsehood and we get it right, I am only credited with one win.

1:13:22 But if we get it wrong, I am given 2 losses in the loss column which will dig me just an insurmountable hole this season. So Patrick, the pressure is on a little bit here. OK, Brad, hit me with those two facts. And a falsehood. Fact number. One Rita Moreno stated that her. Line reading of Don't You Touch Me? After The Jets attack, Anita was her imitating her then boyfriend Marlon Brando. Brando noticed this at the film's premiere. Fact #2 Rita Moreno nearly didn't get the role of Anita, with multiple other stars such as Barbara Luna being offered the role. In the end, many of the other stars were too similar to Natalie Wood, and Moreno offered a personality that better fit what they were looking for.

1:14:12 Fact #3 Not only are Natalie. Wood and. George Shakiris wearing make up to look more Puerto Rican. Rita Moreno, who actually is Puerto Rican, had to wear the same make up to match their skin tone. She later said that West Side Story was the worst example of this in her career, saying that it was like mud caked onto her skin. Man, there was a really, really good documentary. A couple years ago about Rita Moreno that I watched and she talked, you know, fairly fondly, but frankly about West Side Story. She also talked about dating Marlon Brando. What a wild relationship that must have been. I you know #3 sounds. I I'm just gonna assume number.

1:14:56 3 is true, Patrick, I don't. Believe I have. Heard about #3 before I'm. OK, I would bet on that being a fact. I don't know who was the the other star you mentioned. In fact #2 Brad, that was going on, or Luna. I don't know who that is, nor do. I. This sounds like a Brad G made. Up person to me? I'm not sure. Wow, Patrick, I'm circling. One and two here. I'd love to hear your thoughts on which one you. Think might be the falsehood. I lean toward 2 because I'm less familiar. With I as in there's a person, I, I'm not. Familiar with in there? While I'm like, I'm aware of Marlon Brando and they dated and so there's already stuff I'm aware of in there. So yeah, I.

1:15:52 Again, I've got to say. Every time I'm on the show, when this segment comes on, I'm always I, I got, I got. I got to give it up to Brad for writing some pretty convincing lies, because I think usually. When I'm on, we don't. Get it right? No. We don't. That is very meaningful to me. We have had guests come on. Here and trash my intelligence. Really. Yes. Well. That's. Why I'm? Your number one. Returning guest that's right, that easily my favorite. Brad, I'm just going to, I'm going to throw my lot in with Patrick here. I do think it's either one or two, I really couldn't tell you. Which one it?

1:16:39 Is though, so I will also say that number 2 is the falsehood here, and we'll lock that in #2 Patrick, you are. Just on a streak, you've redeemed yourself That that is the falsehood. Let's go, Barbara Luna. Is. A actress who tried out for West Side Story. However, she was like in Star Trek episodes and a few other things throughout the 60s, had a few movie roles. But she she was didn't. She was. No, Yeah, that's right. I think guys. That that might. Be a great. Segue into.

1:17:20 Talking about the cast of this movie, guys, I mean, I don't know where if you want to start at the top with our two leads or if you want to start with the supporting performances. I, I mean, let's go ahead. Let's start with the supporting performances 'cause we're already talking about Rita Moreno and the two supporting actors here. And by the two, I mean Rita Moreno and George Shakiris both win Academy Awards for this movie. And you know, we will get around to the George Shakuris of it all and and him being painted a different color. I still think they're pretty well deserved Oscars. They're both just incredible charismatic, like scene stealing performances in this movie. Brad, who do you want to start by talking about here? Oh man, I mean I my like.

1:18:06 Little thing that the another thing I love to say to my wife every year when I watch a Christmas movie is when I'm watching White Christmas and she is dancing at the cabaret. After she. Quits the musical George Shakiris is one of the guys that she dances with and every year I'm like they he West Side Story this is like. This is like. 10 years before. That and she's like. What? And it's the wild. Thing. About. That he was playing Riff. On in the West Dash production before this. And then they're like, oh, his dark complexion. Maybe he should play.

1:18:50 You know, Bernardo, it is that they are like, look, I'm putting aside for a moment. We'll return. To it. The problematic racial elements of the casting and make up in this movie. George Shakiris gives an like incredible performance. He is so he's he is electric in this. It's like the aforementioned shot in the prologue that Bob you brought up earlier on when he just turns back to the wall and you get in this close up where he just like like looks down the barrel of the camera and then just, you know, perfectly in tune with the music, just like pounds his first on the wall. It's like you look at that shot and the way he holds a close up and it's like, oh, well, that's a movie star right there. It's like, I like, I don't, I don't know why he did not like. Become like a.

1:19:44 Like full on movie star, but this but like he's so lately he he's like obviously like an A spectacular dancer. I mean the the prologue dance at the gym America, just the the way he moves it is is it's astounding. It's again, this is like this is watching him dance is like, Oh yeah, this is what cinema is about. But it's also just like, the intensity of like, his stare. Is like the way cause OK, the thing about West Side Story in any version of of the show, it it is I think the fact of West Side Story and I say this, this is my favorite musical. Tony and Maria are the least interesting characters.

1:20:27 Thank you. Yep, that's that's I was talking. That's just. Talking to Brad about this. Before you got on. That's every musical. Though the leads of a musical are almost guaranteed, especially if they're romantic leads, to be the least compelling characters in that musical, right? These are two young dummies where. Where they're like, we don't want to fight, we just want to hang out and we're in love. And Tony wants to, like, unload, like, boxes of Coca-Cola and stuff like that. And it's like, right. Yeah, no. Riff is like the exciting one. Riff rocks. Also, can we just point out that Tony and Riff both end up in Twin Peaks, which is so crazy? Yes. Yes.

1:21:07 It's incredible here. OK, let's. Get back to George Shakuris for a minute. Because I, I want to tread a little bit lightly with how I phrased this, because as a very, very white man, you by the look of me and the everything else of me, this, this is like. You know, like like a. Blizzard. On screen right now, this is the the What is the whitest podcast board. It's not my place to say. What is and is not? Racially. Insensitive. And the fact that you have a white person playing this role is in itself racially insensitive. Now, given that, what? Really astounds me is. Like when you look at other white people who are playing. Different races.

1:21:52 And ethnicities at this time in Hollywood, Like a year after this, Breakfast at Tiffany's comes out featuring Mickey Rooney in the most offensive performance ever committed to film. Like when white people do other races at this time and prior in Hollywood, they are giving in to stereotypes. And it's not even necessarily like the overt stereotypes. It's just what white people thought about these races. And for George Shakiris to give not just the committed performance he does, but to give it the level of sensitivity and dignity that he does, just the sheer fact that he gives a performance that layered and nuanced is incredibly unique in Hollywood at this time.

1:22:38 And I think that it deserves mentioning. And I'm not going to, like, give the guy a parade because he played another human being with the dignity that all human beings deserve to be played with. But like, it's worth noting. This is really unique at this time in Hollywood. Yeah. Just the fact that like obviously. They should have cast a Puerto Rican actor in the role. There is still brown face going on, which is bad, but it is. But again, this was like a time when that was just really standard. Like no one questioned that. And, and, and it's like, yes, they should not have cast him, but because of the time and the circumstances and all of that, it is somewhat. OK, maybe not commendable, but.

1:23:24 Like he did like clearly. Like want to? Give a sensitive, nuanced, like accurate portrayal of a person from this culture. And and again, the bar was so low at the time that it's like, you know, for this could be so much worse. This could be so much worse. It's still, it's still a thing that you have to be like I, you know, like it's, it's, you know, disappointing, but it's like, again, it's like, it's a movie from 1961. It could be Breakfast at Tiffany's, but it's not. I think the fascinating thing for me is essentially what?

1:24:07 We're saying is it's really hard to impose 2026, not necessarily moral, but standards. Standards. To something from 19. 61 and it doesn't. Mean you don't look back and go like, I think the fascinating thing is that he still portrays what was probably true back then of the gender divide of like a very conservative gender outlook on how the Puerto Rican men view the Puerto Rican women. And that like in the in the America song with which I think is just like a fascinating look back into what life was like for women back then. And I the, the reason I bring that up is to say, I think that this movie was a very progressive movie at the time. And that was like, that's like the the observation is to say for the time this was moving us.

1:25:08 Towards a. Place of understanding that the reason George Shakuris's performance is compelling is because he doesn't focus on the and I'm using air quotes as I say this for those of you who are just listening the Puerto Rican of it all he focuses on the human being of it all and like any human being from any race who cares about his sister and is nervous about a new country that they are living in and the effect it would have on their sister would feel how he feels when she just falls head over heels in love with a somebody who doesn't understand their culture day one of living there like that human experience feels honest and raw and real and you you kind of relate with with Bernardo as he's struggling through these things regardless of George Shakuris skin color well I think that the the American number is.

1:26:13 Really the key to. Under a understanding like the racial politics of this movie, but also why I think this movie works so well. And it's because it is. I mean, just like fundamentally preaching a sermon about the American dream and where it fails people and race in America and violence in America and how all of that is wrapped up into what America is. And I think in a lot of ways, this is the quintessential American musical. Like, I can't think of anything else I could think of musicals that I might enjoy a little bit more than this. But like this, this is a movie and a musical about the American experience in a way that very few others are.

1:26:54 And the reason that it works so well in the American number is that I think in less talented, less qualified, less deft hands, it becomes way preachier and way more didactic about like what they're trying to get across. It would be like doused in exposition. It would be someone standing on a soapbox and delivering A soliloquy. And by putting it in the context of this very upbeat song, but making that song be a back and forth and then adding the additional layer of like, it's a back and forth where they're just kind of like couples having fun with each other and like ribbing each other. But what they're what they're getting at is a really harsh truth in reality.

1:27:41 But the framing of it goes down so easily that I think an audience watching this in 1961 is able to internalize the message of that song so much more easily than if they had done kind of like the Stanley Kramer, you know, somebody gets behind the dock in a courtroom and delivers an impassioned speech. It works better because of how they frame it in this movie. Yeah. I mean it just working off of the very like I don't I don't want to. Say simple, but just of like the, the pretty rock solid framework of Romeo and Juliet, It's like, OK, it's in the test of time. Yeah, we we've got one of the canonical texts of Western culture and we're going to work from that.

1:28:24 But then and just the simple thing of like, you know, Bob, the Stanley Kramer comparison is like a perfect one because it's like, especially at the time, like well-intentioned progressive movies were often like, OK, this is going to be about white people encountering another culture and we're going to see it through their eyes and learn that it's OK to like it. Which again, at the time, it's still a step in the right direction, still commendable. But just like West Side Story taking like the basically taking the approach of no, this is just split evenly between these two cultures. And like, half the movie is, you know, white native born New Yorkers, half of it is Puerto Rican immigrants.

1:29:09 We're going to give them equal screen time. They're going to like all the Puerto Ricans. They will have conflicts within themselves. They will be as nuanced and just like regular as the human beings, as all of the white characters. And this is just the standard for the movie. Again, talk about this. In 2026, it shouldn't feel like a big deal. But going back to that time, it was I, I will say. I I was watching. A I'll I'll give credit where credit is due. I was watching the YouTube channel Sideways that like focuses very heavily on musicals and like the technical aspects of the notes being played. And what he pointed out that I thought was fascinating was that The Jets, like light motif theme, the music that plays for them throughout the entire musical is actually, it's never not present when they are on screen. And it's used as the like hatred theme that like represents this like anger and hatred.

1:30:21 And it plays when they're making fun of Officer Krupke and, and they're not even interacting at all with the the Sharks. They're talking about their own upbringings and stuff. And and it's like there's this hatred inside of them. The only people who don't have the hatred theme play for them is the sharks. Like you look at America, there's nothing related to that. And yet when you look at is it called cool it or Cool Cool? Yeah, when you look at Cool It. Has elements. Of that Jets. Hatred theme in it. When you look at the officer Krupke and the Lieutenant, what's the lieutenant's name shrank shrank when they come on to the scene, The Jets hatred theme plays and guess what happens?

1:31:14 They're you know, yes, they're trying to put down all the kids, but they're also pretty racist towards the Puerto Ricans. And so within the musical structure, it seems like they're creating this idea without communicating it verbally, which is what I love. They are communicating this idea that, like, the Puerto Ricans are just defending themselves. They are strangers in a new land trying to make the best of it. And even when the Puerto Ricans are not present on screen, The Jets are still thinking about it and still finding ways to, like, embody that hatred. And I think it's a really subtle way of saying like, yeah, there there's a lot of problems in America, and these immigrants probably aren't one of them.

1:32:02 Yeah. Well, and I think that's a great jumping off point to talk. About Rita Moreno as Anita in this movie, because it's just like, like by far the best performance in the movie. And I, you know, right before we pressed record, I'm talking to Brad and I'm like, it's, it's like watching LeBron play against a bunch of rookies. And that's not to say that like anyone else in this movie is bad. Like some of them are quite good. The way that you look at a rookie in the NBA and you're like, that dude's going to be an All Star one of these days. But also like you're playing with LeBron James and there's just moments where she's so far ahead of everybody in terms of acting and dancing and everything she does is just the most dynamic performance.

1:32:45 But I will say, Patrick to to the Steven Spielberg version of this, there is one addition in the Spielberg film that I feel like is the best possible thing they could have done. Is it putting De Marino in the movie? Yeah. Well, Rita. Moreno is in the movie she plays. Doc Brad, There's a gender swap and she plays the Doc well. She plays Doc's widow, who is. Puerto Rican. And then it it's again, I think it's a great choice. It's like Doc had been white and there had she, she had had this same kind of relationship years earlier. So when she's like talking to Tony, you know, she's like speaking from experience about like what he's in right now.

1:33:26 And also she sings somewhere and and again, Brad, I'm excited for you to watch the Spielberg one because it's like, I can't like even if you don't like it as much, there's no way you won't think it's good if you like the original. But it but it is just like seeing the way, just like the the way they like recalibrate things the way they like, like the way they totally change the way cool is like placed in there, the way it's like different people singing that song. It's I'm excited. It it's it's a. Cool movie. That that should have been a. Big hit when it. Came out and I'm I'll always be bummed it wasn't.

1:34:07 I think one of the additions that they do that is. Really brilliant is the. Last, basically the last thing Anita says in the movie. And so it's the same as in this movie, you know, she goes to deliver the message to Doc's candy store and almost gets raped and gets caught. You know, the The Jets get caught at the last moment and she's humiliated and she's been assaulted and she does the whole thing about like, I wouldn't even spit on you if I was walking past you. But they in Spanish. She turns around and she, like, rejects America and says, you know, yo, soy Puerto Rican, and then, like, walks out. And it is the perfect conclusion to that character's tragic arc because throughout the entire movie, she's the optimistic one in the relationship with Bernardo about the American dream. She doesn't want to go back home. She likes the idea of buying things on credit. She likes the idea of, like, riding around in a car and getting these things.

1:35:04 And she's ultimately the one that's the most crushed by the reality of America. And I think that it's just it's such a brilliant touch. Now, having said that, Rita Moreno doesn't get that line in this movie. But watching her deliver that final moment, especially in 1961 when you're still, you still have the sensors in place for the most part. Like it's a it's a shocking moment and she's her face is smudged up and like, it's just, it's such a gut punch. And I think that's the reason she wins the Oscar. Like, that's the Oscar clip. And she freaking brings that home, man. Yeah. I mean, she's got she kind of for a. Supporting role. She does have the the trickiest stuff to play and it's like, you know, because she has to be like.

1:35:50 Almost a mother. Figure to Maria like a mother slash sister figure, you know, a a love interest to Bernardo. She is like like America it you know, it's it's a duet, but like she's driving it. She gets like the dramatic climax right before the dramatic. Climax. Yeah, it's just, I mean, it's a thing where like, obviously Rita Moreno, like in her 90s, her career is still going strong. You know, she's Dominic Toretto's mother now. She's an 80 for Brady, a movie that is shockingly pretty fun. Oh, I've seen it.

1:36:33 I just want to think that she's still Anita in. All of those movies but like this. This is such a *. Making performance. That she should have become like one of the biggest stars in the industry from this. It's just it is. I mean Bob the the LeBron playing against. Like amateurs. Is like, I'm not going to go that far because I'm like, everyone else is still like, you know, very good. Everyone else especially, like when it comes. Yeah, like. It's not like it's all. Like bad performances and then one star, but she steals the movie.

1:37:14 Yeah. And now I do. Think if there's one person. That comes closest to stealing it from her. Maybe this is just me. Russ Tamblyn as Riff is incredible. First of all, look, the guy is like 30. Years old and he's playing a. Teenager, what are you going to do that them's the brakes? However, the athleticism of this guy is like it's sneaky athletic too. He's like the guy, you know, if we're going to keep the basketball references going here, Brad, he's like the guy at the Y, like the pick up guy that you don't think is going to be any good. And then just like everyone's exhausted chasing him around. It's little things like the way he climbs up on the on the pipe during jet song and then flips around backwards, gets his feet out from under him and then does another flip and lands. Or when they're at the the dance at the gym and he just does like a running flip in the air for no reason. There's there's so many athletic gymnastics feats and, and coupled with like, it's just a really good performance. Too.

1:38:11 Yeah, it feels to me like this was nearing the end of. Like the dancer body in movies where there was a few of the and we're getting into the the chorus essentially. But like some of The Jets, some of the Sharks that you're like, they still have that like Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly kind of look. And when you watch them dance, you're like, yeah, no, they they didn't mess around with dance in the 40s and 50s when they were training and coming up. Because I just don't feel like you see people like that anymore. And I think that Russ is the epitome of that throughout the movie. Yeah, it's obviously he's not doing like he doesn't have quite. The the dramatic scenes that that like Rita Moreno has to play, but his thing is basically just like, it's like charisma and agility.

1:39:03 Cause like you need the charisma. Oh, you do. Yeah. It was like I believe. This guy as. The leader of The Jets, he rocks. Yeah. It it's also one of those crazy things where it's like, it's funny to see, like, who did or did not do their own singing? It's like Russ Hamblin sang in other movies. Why didn't they let him do his own vocals here? No, what's funny is I and I remember seeing this on like the DVD. Extras. He cut a take of the Jet song and then they were like, not good enough. And then they hired another guy to sing kind of off key anyway. Yeah, so it's like, what? How bad must his take have been that it wasn't useful? I. Know, I know. Also a thing.

1:39:45 I'm sorry. To keep bringing it up, but like, Brad, I'm excited for you to see Mike Feist as as as riff in the Spielberg one because that was all like like that was one where I'm like, oh, this is a very different thing than what Ross Damplin was doing. But also like and. And also that character gets it's it's like a a slightly media role in that one, but it's like, oh right. This is like a star making thing like this. Yeah like that that was like I was like who is this guy and put him in everything now and. And so but. But yeah, I mean the the the. I mean, look, I think the thing about West Side Story is the three most fun roles.

1:40:25 The three best roles are. Always going to be Anita, Bernardo and Riff. 100%'s it. Yeah. Well, and I think that. Like with the rust hamblin. Thing You actually do get some great dramatic moments, but you have to kind of look on the fringes a little bit. And for me, there's this one scene. It's the scene where they're having the war council at Doc's candy store, and then Shrink comes in and he's already kind of flexed his racist muscles a little bit when he kicks the Puerto Ricans off of the playground in the first scene. But he goes all out in this scene and he looks at Bernardo. And is just. Like it's your word against mine and I have a badge. And there's a shot that they cut to kind of from Shrink's point of view, and it's looking slightly down on Bernardo. And then you see Russ Tamblyn sitting at the table behind him. And it's this great reminder that everybody in this movie who's not, you know, a, a police officer or Doc is a teenager. Because there's this kind of sheepish, like, he's afraid in that moment.

1:41:28 Like Riff is afraid in that moment because a grown up person is doing this thing and he's not going to say anything because ultimately he's getting the same thing that he wants. But there's this all through the movie. There's this interesting dynamic of like, yes, we're fighting with each other, but this is not the adults fight. And when the adults try to impose upon us or impose rules upon us, like we'll stick together to get rid of the adults so that we can continue to have our beef. And it like, there's just something about the way that Russ Tamblyn plays that in that moment, the sort of sheepishness, sheepishness and, and scared demeanor of a teenager that I just, I really, really loved his performance this time around. And I I have to say I'm, I'm with. You 100.

1:42:21 Percent on Russ Stanlon. I think that Simon Oakland as Shank is terrifying in that scene. I mean, he has this gravitas and power about him that separates him from the Officer Krupke of it all, where it's like, yeah, Krupke is somebody that, yeah, you understand why he's a joke in popular media for decades to come. There's like a terrifying power about Shank in that scene that you understand why The Jets don't like him, the Sharks don't like him, that he is this universally despised character that almost, it almost reminds me of like a Nurse Ratchet like type of power that it he can hold over a group of disparate people. I mean, just a great performance in just a few small pieces throughout the film.

1:43:20 Do you remember Brad? We've seen him in one other. Movie that we've watched for this podcast. Give me a second to be I'm going to tell you what it is. It's the year. Before this. And what an insane 1-2 punch. He shows up in the last five minutes of Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho. And he is the, like, a psychiatrist that comes in and explains everything about Norman Bates and like how he thought that he was mother and all that. So he goes from that to this movie in back-to-back years and then does nothing else that I've seen after that. That's that's incredible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right.

1:44:01 Well, we've talked. About pretty much everybody else in the movie except for our two leads. So guys, it's time for us to get around to Natalie Wood and Richard Baymer. Now, let's start with Natalie Wood because she is at this time really the only real star in this movie. She was a a pretty famous child actor. Obviously she has a tragic death a couple decades after. Yeah, let's let's really get into that. Guys. Do you have any theories about? What? What happened? Bob's Conspiracy Corner is is in full view now. Natalie Wood is like, a, an interesting case study here because, like, she doesn't do her own singing. She's not a natural dancer, and they don't give her a lot to do as Maria for 95% of the movie.

1:44:42 And then the very last scene, I'm like, oh, yeah, that's why you hire Natalie Wood. Like it. It almost justifies casting her just to get that last three minutes of the movie out of her. Yeah, it it is a funny thing 'cause like. You know, we we've already said that Tony and Maria, you know, not the most interesting part of the movie. And a a lot of Maria in this movie is like, oh, this is like a a nice child having her like first experience, like, you know, with like an infatuation. And also the music and the visuals are doing a lot of the heavy lifting there. Like when she and Tony first meet, like, you know, Bobby already talked about this, You know, when you know, the IT turns into that the everything else kind of like blurs out as it just becomes like the two of them. And it's like, oh, right, This is not, no, not to like, you know, discount the actors, but like, you know, this is not about acting, right?

1:45:44 Now this is. This is the music and visuals telling the story and, and, and also like, you know, Maria has one famous song. Well, OK, you know, she's got multiple songs, but like, I think of her songs, there's one Maria song that is like OK, 2 Maria songs that are OK, fairly, fairly iconic, but like. Tony. Has more. Yeah, Tony has. Like 3. But and so, but, yeah, so like, Maria's like they're doing her thing. She's fine until you get to the final scene and then she brings it. And then it's like, OK, you know what? You're look, you are landing the plane here. Yeah.

1:46:31 And. And she has to. Yeah. And and. She nails it when she looks around. And. Just, like, is, like, silently screaming at them all. And just, like, announces that hate in her heart. You're just, like, you're there with her. You're crying. It's powerful. Yeah. Well, and then you've got kind of like the inverse. Of that with Richard. Baymer, who's like, it's kind of unfortunate because I think that he is the worst actor in this movie and yet he does kind of exactly what you need Tony to do. He's charming as all get out. I'm never having a bad time with Tony. And like, you know, when they asked him to do some of the dramatic beats, like when Doc comes down and gives him the false information about Maria's death and he has to kind of react to that. It's like, you know, I would have liked another take of, of some of those moments and gasping for air and running through the streets yelling for Chino. But like I, I think I had a better time with Tony. Than I did with Maria.

1:47:34 For most of this movie, but I would also say like I think Richard Baymer is a worse actor then Natalie Wood. Is that fair to say, Brad? I mean, I don't think you're wrong. I think this is a place. Where story matters, and I, I. Think that. If you make the Maria Tony love story just a little more believable, I think it benefits their performance because and all you have to do is like spread the movie out to take place over six months rather than 48 hours. That's all you have to do. And it's it feel I, I don't know, I'm not a scriptwriter. It feels pretty easy to like put in some natural like indicators of like it starts in the spring and then these scenes happen in the summer and then now in the fall we're getting to the rumble.

1:48:27 And even like the fight between the two gangs feels more believable if you just give a few indicators that this is happening over a period of time. And so I think if if you make the love story more believable between the two of them, the little bit of scene chewing that you get in the love story of of Tony and Maria feels a little more breathable, a little more like, yeah, I know these are two young kids who despite their, you know, families, their cultures are falling in love with each other. But there's something about the 48 hours of it all that makes me be like as you're not a good enough actor. To.

1:49:09 Make me believe that, you guys. Truly fell in love in the last 48 hours. It is so little time. It's one of those. Things where where I'm like. I feel like, you know, it's like a theater or movie thing where it's like we're we're going to compress time a lot and just go with us, even though this would never happen in in such little time. But yeah, it, it, it's a thing like to talk about Richard Baymer, who again, it is like whenever I watch this now, I'm just like, I can't believe that is Ben Horn from Twin Peaks. That's just like, it's so nuts. But but but but like to once again invoke the Spielberg one.

1:49:50 I I remember like when the Spielberg one came out, a thing that I would, you know, hear people say constantly, is that like, oh man, it's great, except for Ansel Elgort and putting aside anything about like him, him as a person, but like he would constantly get brought up as like the weak link and, and I was always like, guys, I think he's fine. And the because Tony, Tony is always the least interesting character. That's it. It's like, you know what, he wasn't amazing in the 61 version. It's like Tony is just kind of like this lunkhead who is like kind of nice and and falls in love and doesn't have a lot going on internally.

1:50:36 And, and my thing with Tony is always like, can he pull off? Something's coming. And Maria? Oh, he can. Cool. Yeah, Tony works. That's that's basically like like those are the songs where the, the, the, the where it's like those are two of the crucial songs in the film. Like something's coming is, you know, is the I Want song and and, and Maria, which is, which is again, it's like less the actor's performance and more the music and what is happening visually convincing us that this person is in love. But also he's got to sing the song. And I'm like, well, Richard Bammer doesn't actually sing the song, but he has to look like he's singing the song.

1:51:21 But but but that's the thing. I'm like, Oh yeah, if they can pull that off, and if the two of them can pull off tonight together, then I'm like, then it works that then, then, well, I think you guys, you've hit on something too. Where like their characters. Are not helped by the way that this compression of time is a is a real what's the word Brad, not asset liability to. The way this movie. Ends and like it's almost like I wish that they'd either compress time more so that like their desperation to get away was like I bought bus tickets earlier today. We have to get out of town right now. Are you coming with like there needs to be something there because he he murders her brother.

1:52:07 He goes to her house. She's like you. Murdered my brother. And he's like, yeah, he also murdered Riff. And she goes, I didn't know that. Let's have sex. And like, that's, that's like literally it, it, it, it, it doesn't happen any longer than that. Like there's there's the suspension of disbelief. I like, I want to. I know this is a. Musical. I know it's heightened. I want to suspend my disbelief, but when she immediately forgives him after he confirms that he killed her brother, I'm just like. And there's so many little things they could do, you know, like, 'cause right after. That Anita comes in, catches them, and then they sing the song about like, you know, when you love somebody, you accept them for who they are. They're basically singing Sale of Thee, right? I mean, yeah, it's.

1:52:55 When we were talking at the beginning. About how the like the post rumble section is like the the weakest part again, like, you know, the weakest part is in it. It's like everything else is like transcendent and the and and this and and this is not and so this is not like a major criticism, but I think like the the main weakness there is just that this is a stretch with major. Dramatic things. Happening without songs like the first. Like. 90 minutes of the thing are like. Wall to wall.

1:53:37 Bangers and and it's like song after song and it's like, oh, these are the greatest songs ever written and like they are communicating so much. And then when they have to, and this is this is also a thing that I think I've seen lots of musicals like like stumble here where it's a thing even in like like original movie musicals from the past like 15 years that are big hits that I like anything from like Frozen to La La Land. I think like my like major criticism of both of those movies is that they need one additional song in like around the like 2nd and to third act.

1:54:23 They like they have like they they like kind of forget to be musicals for a big stretch. And and in West Side Story, I'm like this stretch where you got a like like a lot of plot and a break from songs. Maybe a song could smooth? This over. And see, I I kind of disagree because for me. The the section right after that is where Anita goes to docs, the assault happens, and then the end of the movie happens. And like, that's songless. And it's really compelling. And for me, it's the scene where they're like, you know, in the bed chamber, they've just had sex. You know, they sing There's a place for us. And then Anita comes in and sings the song with Maria about like, we love our men and what are you going to do? And it's the songs that get in the way of the dramatic progression for me because like, I feel like you need even one line from Anita somewhere in the movie where she acknowledges like Bernardo's going to get himself killed. But I can't help but love him anyway. Because for me, it's it's the mental hurdle of her being like this guy standing in front of me just murdered my soon to be husband.

1:55:40 But you know, what are you going to do? Like there's there's no point of commonality. Like Natalie Wood's just like, you don't understand. I love him. Don't you love anybody? It's like, yeah, you just. You just murdered him. Do you remember that? Like it's like my if I'm being really charitable. My thing here is like, until now, they kind of didn't consider that anyone could die in this conflict. They weren't killing each other. It was almost like this stupid childish thing of like, oh, you're running around and throwing rocks and, and I'm like, again, I'm not, I'm not sure I even believe this. Actually, I don't think I do, but I'm going to say it anyway.

1:56:20 It's like they're all because this is such a short amount of time. It's like they are all. In shock. That people actually died from this, that no one is really being rational, are thinking through things because they had like had not even considered that death was like on the table. This this like doesn't feel real. I don't know. This is It's a musical. And and they got to get they. Got to get a lot of story in there fast and also there's so many songs that there's only so much story to fit in around songs. I think my favorite thing that they do in this movie. That's different from the Broadway show. Is they? They take the song cool and they move it from act one and Riff sings it before the rumble, and they move it to after Riff's death, and Ice sings it to get everybody else chilled out after the fact.

1:57:11 And that is a song that like, you know, we're using the parlance of the late 50s and everyone's saying, you know, keep Cooley cool boy. And like, it sounds lame. But the way that it's used dramatically in this movie, I think it's like it's the key to making the second-half work because like you get that great little scene right before that with baby John and Arab where baby John's crying and he's like, what you like, there's a genuine moment of like, why are you crying? You know? And, and they're both trying to process their feelings and they, they do that by suppressing their feelings with the song. Cool. Which is why I get so pissed off about what happens with Maria and Anita after that, 'cause I'm like, what is your, I don't even understand your process here.

1:57:51 It makes no sense. Brad, I'd love to hear your thoughts on on the, you know, not the finale necessarily, but like that last third of the movie, because for me that was the weakest part of the film. But it sounds like for you it wasn't quite as weak as that opening bit. I mean, I I think that would you include in the last? 3rd The scene where Anita is. I mean, I took it to be that she does get raped. They, you know, they, they stop it and it's a musical. And they're not going to show. It, but essentially the way they're implying it through dance. Sure. Yeah, they're implying it through dance. And just the way she walks. Out and the way she holds herself is so fragile and strong.

1:58:33 It just I it, it just feels very intense as to what, regardless, regardless I like. For me, that scene. Is what holds up that final third of the movie. It's what holds up what Chino does at the end of the film. You're like, yeah, they're, they're not just fighting for little things anymore. They're fighting for their honor, for their their very lives. And then you get Natalie Wood. Just freaking. Knock A. Grand Slam out of the park at the end of the film. So I, I think the movie ends relatively well. I do agree that some of the pacing falls apart and a lot of it is kind of due to the story beats. But I, we, we've gone over that.

1:59:25 I'm, I'm kind of with you on that, Bob. Well, I think that's a good place for us to transition to our. Last segment. Of the day, which we call Let's Make it a Double. We're near the end of the episodes of Things Listening To. The film and whiskey show. Let's pair another film with this one, even if it's struggle. It's the final segment of the day. Now let's make it a double. Let's Make It a Double is the part of the show where we pick a movie to pair. Up with this one. To make the perfect double feature, I'm going to keep this as short and sweet as I possibly can. We've mentioned it 85 times already. You're going to pair this up with the Steven Spielberg remake of this from 2021? I don't really know what else I could pick for this, but Brad and Patrick, I'm all ears on your double feature recommendations.

2:00:08 Brad, do you want to go first? Sure. Yeah, I. I was. Thinking about movies that fit this realm of people living in America trying to deal with a raw hand or a raw deal and making the best of a situation and fighting against things they can't control. And I landed on Fences with with Denzel. Oh, that's a good one. Directed by Denzel as well, Right. Yes, and. Also if it's another stage. Play adapted into a movie. It just feels like a lot of things from Fences would fit with what we're looking at here in West Side Story set in the similar era.

2:00:55 Also just and to to use your LeBron like you got Denzel. And it's not that there's not other good performances in the movie. But. He. Carries the show. It's it's just him and Viola Davis. Like acting. You know, just it's, it's just like two faces on the Mount Rushmore of acting. Yes, exactly. That's a great thing, man. All right, Patrick, how about you? So. A thought that I. Had while watching the movie today is I'm I'm. Looking at being like is this the best? The color. Red has ever looked in a movie. There is so much use of red, whether in the sets or the lighting or the costumes, and it looks incredible.

2:01:43 And I'm going to make an argument for another movie. But Brad. Hold up a SEC. And as I'm thinking about. This I'm like this might be. The best use of the color red in film history, with the exception of my pick for my double feature, which is Powell and Presburger's The Red Shoes. Oh, that's a good one, because it's also a a just another. Movie that. Is it's not a musical, but it is a movie about ballet and it is also. Right up there. With the best ever synthesis of music and movement and color in cinema history. And so it's not even quite the same genre, but it's like, look, you're getting, you're getting like, I don't know, like 4 hours or so of just the greatest red, the richest red you've ever seen with some of the best music humans have ever composed. So Brad, what's your red movie?

2:02:48 I have not I've not seen your your. Pick so I I can't compare it. I would argue that and I wouldn't even necessarily say it's better. I would argue that up there you would have to put in mood for love. Oh yeah, I, I, I thought about. That, but also consider the red shoes has red in the title. It does. It's about a red option. We did have a long. Talk about red and green in Vertigo as well. Oh, and that was it. That's true. There's there's we've got some good red movies, I guess as well. I mean also there's. Like. My favorite Dario Argento. Movie Deep red also where the red is all red. Blood red in the in the title.

2:03:32 Yeah, but but but. Truly like if you haven't seen the red. Shoes a contender along with in the mood for love for like I would put though if I had to rank like what are the 10 best looking movies ever made? These are in there. Yeah, just just just blind by the criterion. 4K of. Of the red shoes and and then looks like you know thank me later guys you know what else is one of the best looking movies of all time 19. 61's West Side Story and it's time for us to give final scores on these guys guys before we do that top. Three songs go Oh, OK.

2:04:12 America's number one. Maria's number 2 and then probably. Something's coming. I like I sing the ACT 1 songs a lot more than anything from Act 2. I am going to cop out and say what Bob? Said I here's here's my hot take. I don't like cool at all. Brad, I'm excited for you to see the Spielberg version. Because cool is completely different. OK, That is like the biggest change. Cool is like an action scene in that one. I like that. I would enjoy There's a gun involved. Yeah, it's. Good. Yeah, it's it's a. Cool change. My top three are America.

2:05:00 Something's coming. Tonight, Quintet. Oh dude. It's so good and. Then the smash cut to the the fence. At the rumble and it's red. That's incredible, the red filter. That then cuts out. It's Oh my God, there are so there's so also the way tonight quintet begins with just like silhouetted like like buildings, red filter. It's just black and red. It is. Oh God, it's so good. It's so good and and and. Then. Oh my God, you know, and then just got a wood cleaning out the window and the orange is so. Saturated that it's like blown out. It's just yeah man, guess what guys, this is a 10 out of 10 movie and I will hear no debate on that. So that's my score.

2:05:46 I do think that that stretch of 10 minutes really pulled me out of the movie. But like the 1st 3rd of this movie is as close to like an orgiastic experience as one could have watching a film. So like it's a tent. I don't know. I don't care what anybody says it's a tent. Brad Patrick, where Where are you at 10? Out of 10, I yeah, I I assume I get. It it's like, this is not a science. Yes, the movie is imperfect, but it is also like, you know, the highs are so like, you know, stratospherically high that that it's like, you know, cinema doesn't really get as good as this.

2:06:29 I I am with you. Guys, I love this. Movie. I am going to give it a 9.5. It's not. It's not quite a 10 on devastating. A huge blow to West Side Story. Them in Buffalo Trace. What are they going to do without Brad G's? Approval West, Robert Weiss will drown his sorrows. In in Buffalo Trace. Right. Exactly. Well, listen, we. We have. Almost gone as. Long as the film. Itself, you could, if you cut out the intermission, you could probably play this as a DVD commentary track and it would be damn good. We want to say thank you to our friend Patrick Williams for hanging around with us for this long. Patrick, it's always a joy and a privilege to have you here. Tell the people what you're working on and where we can find you.

2:07:15 OK, cool. So I'm on a break between seasons of my show. We'll be back at some point late February, early March. We'll see. But yeah, go go check out the Patrick H Williams channel on YouTube or Nebula, where I talk about movies. You know, it's scripted, so it's more like eloquent and coherent than this. And and available exclusively on the platform Nebula. Go watch my 30 minute short film The Dinner Plan. It's a fun time and heavily involves the color. Red. Let's. It sure does.

2:07:55 I have. I have. Watched it sponsored. By the color. Red. The color red, the art department and I had a had long. Conversations. About how are we? Utilizing the color red. Well guys, have you even seen the red shoes come? On man. Guys, I, I will unashamedly. Say, as a Nebula subscriber for multiple years now, it's a great platform, lots of great creators, Patrick obviously being one of them. You should go check it out. Nebula's pretty dope. Thank you. I really appreciate that. Yeah, that's the pull quote, Nebula. Pretty. Dope, pretty dope guys. If you would like to learn more about film and whiskey, you can find us on any of our social media platforms. Let us know what you think of the film West Side Story. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, or YouTube at Film Whiskey.

2:08:51 We also have a Discord server where we talk about movies. And whiskey and all sorts of stuff going on in life. If you want to join the conversation, you can find a link to our server at the end of every single one of our show notes. Don't forget about our Patreon page, Patreon dot. Com slash film. Whiskey, where you can subscribe at three different tiers, you get bonus episodes, you get longer episodes, you get video episodes. We would love to have you join our community at patreon.com/film. Whiskey, Brad, we are coming back next week to hold up West Side Story against the film that IMDb tells me is the greatest movie ever made, 1994's The Shawshank Redemption.

2:09:34 So join us for that one next Tuesday. But until then, I'm Bob Book, I'm Brad Gee, and we'll see you next time.