Transformers / Rebel 100 Straight Rye Whiskey

0:00 In 2007, director Michael Bay and star Shia LaBeouf gave the world a script stinker that still manages to pack an explosive punch. In 2024, we returned to a familiar brand with a new expression. The film is Transformers. The whiskey is Rebel 100 Rye. And we'll review them both. This is the film and whiskey. Podcast Welcome to the Film and Whiskey Podcast, where each week we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey. I'm Bob Book.

0:50 I'm Brad G and Bob. I'm a little surprised this week. I assumed when I went to write the title for this film that it would be like Transformers Rise of the Autobots, who really hate Decepticons and want to send them back to their planet as soon as possible. But lo and behold, this is simply called Transformers. I love a good non subtitled movie. It's the best, man. It's it's nearly as good as a 90 minute film. We were just talking to our friend Noah Gettel a week and a half ago about his new book called Baseball the Movie. And we that was the first thing we said to him in the interview was like, thank you so much for it. Not being baseball, Colon the movie, Colon Revisiting America's Classics.

1:34 Or like, you know, just just cut that stuff out, man. A sport that captured a nation's heart in 19 O 4. Brad, Unfortunately for this film, that is the only place where a proper amount of editing was done 'cause this bad boy is almost 2 1/2 hours long and dare I say at least 45 minutes too long. Yeah, but I don't know if the impact of Linkin Park would have felt so meaningful if you hadn't just watched 2 1/2 hours of this movie, Bob. So that Linkin Park end title card thing has become a meme on Twitter. Like they they they clip it into a bunch of inappropriate movies. You know, I never knew that that's where this came from. Because Brad, I think I mentioned last week, I've never seen Transformers until this very watch. Whoa, whoa, whoa, you.

2:23 So that's that's totally fine and acceptable. You didn't know that that. What's the name of that song? I don't know. Every time I hear that song, all I can, all I can see is Shia LaBeouf Mackin on Megan Fox. On top of a living like breathing autonomous. Creature, I was going to say, yeah, it gets a little weird when you stop to think about it for two seconds. It. Feels a little bit like a threesome. She's into some weird stuff, man. And Shia LaBeouf, good friend, apparently, you know, really, really hooking his bro up there. All right, so, Brad, let's talk Transformers. Before we dive into talking about the movie itself, we want to say hello. Welcome into film and whiskey.

3:08 We've already mentioned threesomes, and we're 3 minutes into the recording. That sounds sounds pretty accurate. You know it's. Par for the course at this point. What we do on this podcast is we review movies and we review whiskey. And this season of the podcast, what we've been doing is. Look, to be clear, we don't review threesomes. 10 out of 10 One of the best on film This season of the podcast. We've been looking at the highest grossing film of each year from 1988 to 2019. We have been kind of circling this week for a long time, Brad. At least I have, because I saw this as the tipping point, even more so than something like Pirates of the Caribbean a couple weeks ago. The Transformers movies have just always been crapped on. They've always been pointed to as kind of incoherent to watch sometimes because they are.

4:02 There's just so much going on on screen and you can't situate yourself in them. And they started the downward slide into IP Ville that we're currently in with the MCU then. I didn't know honestly if that would be a fair assessment of the movie or not, but I have definitely been dreading this week, so I have much to report on here. But well, I I have an initial question for you, Bob, as somebody who I would say maybe not ardently, but I would call you a Michael Bay Defender. How do you feel about Michael Bay now, 'cause I feel like these are the films that have gotten him into the, you know, into the public's kind of meh territory as far as people's opinion of him as a director.

4:49 So do you do you kind of understand that a little better now? I mean, I I kind of anticipated this, but it's like a much larger and more severe version of how people feel about James Cameron only doing Avatar from now on. Sure, You know what I mean? Like it. It's kind of that he did, I think, five of these movies. He didn't do the most recent one. And it just kind of makes you wonder, like, why would somebody? How is there? How are there 6 Transformers? And there's the spin off Bumblebee movie. So I think there's been seven Transformers films. It's it's too many. And I have to say, like, I don't want to say Michael Bay has squandered his talents, but like outside of Transformers, I think he's only made pain and gain and ambulance. And so it's like my guy, you, you got to do something else besides the Transformers movies.

5:35 I'm glad he's finally come out of it. But he lost a decade and a half of his life to only making these. And while the movie is very handsome at some points, I do wonder like was this just the wrong guy for this material and this IP from the get go he certainly made it his own and you can't make a Transformers movie now as whoever the new guy is without copying what Bay has turned this world into. But I think for me, Brad and and a question that I was going to bring up to you is like does Michael Bay really mesh with what we know Transformers to be? Oh man, that's a great question. I'll say this, Bob.

6:16 I never grew up playing with Transformers action figures. I never grew up watching the cartoon. I feel like the cartoon was more of like an 80s. Yeah, like late. 80s, yeah, that, you know, I was born in 1990s, so they can go kick rocks the 80s sucks. So coming into it as a teenager, because you know, I actually watched movies in my teenage years, unlike you, the The thing is, I just watched it as a complete newcomer, not really knowing much before it. And I have to say, I think even watching it this time through, I kept finding myself thinking man, if this was the only Transformers movie, I think it might be looked back on a little more fondly than it is.

7:03 Because at the end of the day you're asking somebody to make a 2 hour plus movie about toy cars that turn into robots and you can tell that there the script is straining, It is bare, it is bursting at the seams because there is not much going on here to support how much is going on here? Exactly. Well and and OK, let's go back a minute. I'm in the same boat as you Brad, because I also didn't grow up with Transformers. In fact, I think my first real exposure to Transformers, because they had fallen so far out of the public consciousness, the first time I really heard about the brand of Transformers was when this movie was being developed.

7:49 And I was like, what is Transformers? And then I realized, oh, like when I was a kid, we had little action figures that changed from a car into a robot. But they were like, sure, some generic brand, you know, after Transformers did it, You know, whatever version they were selling at ALDI was like what I got. And I didn't realize there was a whole mythos behind these things that change and from cars into robots. You had the Dollar General version of 100. Percent. They're probably called like trans figures or something. You know, like it just it didn't work. No, no, no, no, Bob, that was that was a passion of the Christ. Yes, yes, yes. Thank you. I appreciate that. So I had no attachment to this IP. And all I've really seen of the cartoon since is little clips online.

8:30 It has the same vibe as like Captain Planet. Like it's this big, bright, clean looking cartoon. And then you bring Michael Bay into it. And I think Michael Bay just heard like fighting robots. And he was like, this is my scene because everything Michael Bay does is this kind of grimy, industrial, mechanical look to things. And so he turns this into a very down and dirty, gritty, grimy, mechanical thing. I just, I kind of wish that Michael Bay had made his Pacific Rim with this. And Pacific Rim is a movie that when Guillermo del Toro made it, like it was basically called his Transformers movie. Completely original script, but it's like it's Guillermo del Toro's Transformers movie.

9:14 Yeah, I wouldn't have minded Michael Bay making a movie where alien robots fight each other. I think the weakest thing and and the thing that's hardest to reconcile about this with, for me, Brad, is every time they have to like, insert Transformers figures and characters that people know and the back story and the mythos, that's where I feel like Michael Bay, what Michael Bay wants to do is so at odds with what the IP demanded. And, you know, I'm sure he was like passing this off to Hasbro or whoever. And they're like, no, no, you got to mention Optimus Prime in this scene. And it's like every time I'm reminded that it's a toy, it's like, oh, this doesn't really work at all. And every time it's just Michael Bay running rampant. I'm like, this movie freaking rules, You know what I mean? Yes, 100% man.

9:59 I will start this episode off 10 minutes in by giving it the credit it is due. This movie is beautiful, Bob. Like, I think that the CG in this film is absolutely incredible. Yeah. I can't wait to talk about it stands up so, so well and everything else supporting that is just. Awful. Like, oh, it's rough, yeah, man. Well, that's a really good jumping off point to get into our first segment of the day, which we call Brad explains. Brad's gonna give us the movie plots with only 60 seconds ticking on the clock, so let's go ahead and hear your take with this little segment that we call Brad explains.

10:40 Brad Explains is the part of the podcast where Brad breaks down the plot of the movie that he has just seen often for the first time. Brad, this was what, your second time seeing the film? Second, maybe third. All right. I know I saw it when it came out. I probably watched it at like a friend's house at some point. I do have a very distinct memory of watching the second one at Malone. There's a group of people watching it and I just remember thinking it was so dumb that I was like like 19 year old. Brad was like, yeah, guys, this is dumb. I'm I'm gonna go do something else now. College. A time where famously we have time to do whatever. Yep, Brad's like this is not valuable use of my time. I need to get out of here.

11:28 So literally I have seen like the first film two or three times and the second film 10 minutes of and that's my experience with the Transformers franchise. Well, we are the two perfect people to talk about this franchise that Brad, because we have no exposure to it. Brad, you have one minute to break down the plot of this film. We do get into spoiler territory if anybody cares about spoilers on the 17 year old movie about toys. One minute on the clock and go. Transformers is a film about a horny young teenager who really wants to get laid. I can't emphasize to you guys enough how horny Shia LaBeouf is and how hot Megan Fox is.

12:10 I mean, Bob, have you have you seen Megan Fox? Like Oh my gosh she is so hot and. According according to the film. Yes, according to the film, and there's robots that are going to help Shia LaBeouf get laid, but it turns out the robots are actually there. I I don't know if you realize this Bob, they are actually there to find the Allspark and keep the bad robot from using it to kill humanity or something. And and they do it. Boom Bang bomb. Transformers. Transformers. OK. Is that? Is that an accurate depiction of the movie Bob? It is, yes.

12:51 It's it's a lot of boom and bang and a lot of trying to bang. If you're Shia LaBeouf, we did it. OK, So let's dive into the movie itself. Brad and I kind of want to work in chronological order because I started off very diligently taking notes of things I wanted to talk about. And by the hour and 15 minute mark I was like F this like I'm not taking any more notes this. This is not a note taking type of movie. So the only thing I just want to I want to talk about how bad the script to this movie is. And folks, we talk about scripts a lot on this podcast, but we talk about them in different facets. It can be, you know, the actual sound of the dialogue. How bad is the dialogue?

13:33 It can be the plotting of the movie, like, and the rhythm of the movie, which plays into editing. But also like if you write too many scenes, that's what you get here. I think there's rhythmically a lot going on here that sucks. I think there's a lot going on that sucks with the dialogue. I I just think there's too many characters, there's too many scenes, and it doesn't always logically flow from one scene to the next. And there are also times where, like, I just don't really know where we are or what we're doing or why we're spending equal amounts of time with this character. I guess what I'm trying to say is this is a freaking mess of a script, Brad. Who's your favorite secondary characters 'cause there is a right answer? My favorite? I don't know.

14:14 I I I don't care. The thing is like, they're all primary characters according to the movie, 'cause they're all given essentially the same amount of screen time and they don't need to be. The right answer is the parents, Bob. The parents are the most ridiculous version of parents I think I've seen in any movie ever. Like every time they were on screen, I found myself just laughing incessantly at how asinine they are and how they are like the most Clint Eastwood Ian distilling of terrible like teenage parents. Yeah dude, I man, I don't even know where to start.

14:57 I guess we'll get around to talking about the parents. So the movie kicks off in is it Afghanistan or Iraq? Like it's in the Middle East and and. Middle East Country #7. We're we're fighting and there's American soldiers and boy, oh boy do they do some great establishment of characters. There's a guy that I wrote this down. He literally looks at at Josh Demel and everybody else and he's like, hey, you guys remember weekends, the socks at Fenway? And I'm like, oh, so you are from Boston? That's what we're doing here, OK? It's just like, there's just, I don't know how to explain it, man. It's like if you took a screen writing one O 1 class. Everything that they do to set up characters in this movie is like the opposite of how you should set up characters. Yeah it's it is really bad.

15:49 I I'll I'll start with actors just a little bit. I actually liked Josh. Do do Duhamel. I've always heard him say it, Dumel. Dumel, Yeah. OK, so Josh Dumel, I believe it's how it's actually pronounced. Big fan. I I think he might be the only actor in this movie that I felt came across. Sincerely, whenever he's on screen, maybe it's just because he has a really cute little baby daughter and the way he interacts with her, you can tell that that man is a father. So I was a big fan of that. All the other acting in this movie, Bob, definitely happened. It sure did. I would also put Josh Demel in the category of his acting happened but like he's he's he has a very sincere character and I think he plays that well. Fun fact Brad, when a movie starts getting boring and you kind of stop paying attention and looking at your phone and Josh Demelle comes on screen and is yelling at people, you will swear that it is actually the voice of Vince Vaughn doing it. My guy has the exact same voice, and I spent a good portion of this movie wondering how much funnier this movie would be if it was Vince Vaughn and not Josh Demelle. That that would be a heck of a movie, man. If it was Vince Vaughn and and like Owen Wilson. Yes.

17:06 Yep. The movie kicks off in apparently it's Qatar and we get the establishment. It's almost like Iron Man would do a year later where we're taking a comic book character. We're setting it in the real world. And the hot button topic of the late George Bush era is the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. So we're going to set this baby here. I think that that initial action sequence incredibly well done. And the big note that I took away from this movie was like, I actually don't think that the action for the most part is incoherent in this movie, despite how much movement and how much editing and how rapid the cuts are. Provided that the action happens during the day, all of the daytime action things are like really easy to follow.

17:51 And the night time ones, I'm like, I like I almost had a seizure watching this, it makes it makes no sense. My brain hurts. What's happening on the screen? So I don't know what you think of that, but that initial action scene, which happens during the day, I thought was really well done. Yeah, I'm. I'm 100% with you, man. I I thought that all the action scenes that took place in the desert were really fascinating. I think that everybody kind of understands the geography of how terrifying it would be to have something coming at you from under the ground. And this, like the desert. The sand just makes for a really intense battle scene when everyone knows that the rules of the battlefield has changed.

18:35 And so I think you get really authentic fear and terror in the soldiers as they are fighting, something that at this moment of the film feels like it monstrously outweighs what they have the capability to fight. I will say throughout the film, one of my favorite things about Transformers is that I I think a lot of movies that have, you know, essentially aliens in the movie fighting on Earth. It feels like movies will fall into the trap of either the aliens are impossible to kill or they're like way too easy to kill and they often vacillate between those two extremes. It's like, oh, we can't kill them, but now we have this new thing and we can kill them so easily. I feel like this movie does a really good job of showcasing that, like these robots are killable, they are able to be combated by humans, but it's really difficult because they're a little bit more of an advanced species. And they also do a really good job of, like balancing out how much the Autobots can kill the Decepticons and the Decepticons can kill the Autobots.

19:42 Like it always feels like a fair fight. And I I think I think that's something that they do really well with the action sequences here. Yeah. And I think that that plot point is also where this movie wears its own influences on its sleeve. And you you kind of notice it the most in the threat of the story that has to take place with the government. So after the soldiers are ambushed, you kind of well, you you meet Shia LaBeouf, but we'll get to him. And then the next story plot like story element that's introduced is the Secretary of Defense played by Jon Voight with a sometimes accent, sometimes not. You know, no big deal, Bob. He is dealing with the fact that these Decepticons, these malicious, malevolent aliens, are hacking into the mainframe of the United States to steal some stuff off of eBay.

20:29 Hacking Bob, they're doing it. You. Got to You got to yell about it a lot. And Brad, this is where I started to notice like, oh, this is just a much more like gritty, brutal, violent version of Independence Day. Like this movie is, is really Independence Day heavy in terms of how they set up these characters. I think they do it worse than an Independence Day, how they try to have like the nerdy guy with the love interest who has to link up with, you know, the government to take this thing down. And then you've got the Will Smith character who's basically Josh Demelle trying to fight for his man. Like, it's just Independence Day, it really is. And Brad, as a guy who you didn't care for Independence Day that much, AI mean how obvious is it?

21:14 But also B, like, where does it work better? Is Independence Day better than this, or is this one doing it better for you? That's a really good question, Bob. I I man, I think that the action sequences in this film are so much better and the story sequences in Independence Day are like decently better. So for me, it it kind of evens out where if I'm going to watch an action film, that's silly, I think I'd rather watch Transformers over Independence Day. I mean, I I. Profoundly. Disagree but. That might not be me saying it's better. It's just me saying like, if I'm going to watch a silly action movie, like it's going to be a Michael Bay one. I mean, there's also a ton of Armageddon in this movie too. Like Michael Bay's just going back to the well a little bit with his government offices, where the walls are painted jet black and a ton of contrast everywhere but man. Also, I don't know if you noticed Michael Bay doesn't like the government.

22:20 So here's The thing is that Michael Bay is simultaneously accused of being like the most libertarian filmmaker because of his distrust of the government and also the filmmaker that fetishizes the United States military the most. And I think that's true. I think he, I think they actually kind of are both true because you know, I was just, I was reading online some comments people had made about the film and they were talking about how, oh, isn't it crazy how the Decepticons, when they're disguised as vehicles, they're all disguised as military vehicles because it shows like what their function was on their home planet and that they're this oppressive force. And and like it's a pretty obvious visual metaphor. But it's also I like that Michael Bay tries his best to complicate his feelings about the government on film. Like, because I think there is a version of this where, like, it really is just like, rah, rah, America, The government's awesome.

23:17 The military's awesome. Let's blow shit up and you get let's blow shit up. But you also get a healthy dose of like, are we doing the right thing? Are we interrogating surveillance? And you know, like all the conversation that we had about Nolan with The Dark Knight, I think some of that applies here. And Brad, I'm not suggesting that you, you know, your movie is automatically better if you're critical of the government. That's not what I'm saying, but I I think I am saying that at least in this movie, Michael Bay beats the charges, that he is like the military's biggest proponent. Oh, 100%. I mean, the biggest joke character in the film is played by is it John Turturro? Is that his name?

23:57 Yeah. I mean, he's like an absolute freaking clown. And he and he represents like kind of acia, you know, secret Division you've never heard of. And and like every single moment he's on the screen, you just kind of want to punch him in the face. So I think there's definitely an element of, hey, like the military does important things. But if I had to draw a line, I would say this. It seems like he loves the military and hates the government in this film. And like Turturro. Yeah, like Turturro would represent the government, like this super secret agency that the public has never heard of and neither has the Secretary of Defense. But the the military guys you know are are just awesome and down to earth and have have kick ass names and they're they're so cool man.

24:45 They they ride motorcycles into battle so that they can shoot one grenade underneath a Decepticon. It's it's awesome, man. All right, let's talk about the last big piece of the puzzle here, and that is the Shia LaBeouf thread along with Megan Fox and Shia Labeouf's family and weird friend. So we we meet Shia LaBeouf in high school, a high school that features a class full of both 30 year olds and what looked like 1-8 year old in the front row. Yes, I was very confused by the the range of ages here. It's one of those charter schools. So Shia LaBeouf is doing a show and tell 'cause that's what you do in high school. And he's talking about all these heirlooms, family heirlooms that he's trying to Hock so he can buy a car. And that's where we meet Megan Fox. And why is he trying to buy a car, Bob? So I don't know why.

25:40 So he can get laid. Oh, well, sure. Yeah. There was like a plot point here other than just like I'm horny. Yes, that is a plot. It's a a major plot point at this film actually. It sure is. We meet Megan Fox. She's dating like this jock, who is also 30 years old. One of my favorite moments in the whole movie. Brad is in the next scene with Shia LaBeouf. He he goes to this outdoor party at a park and is confronted by the jock, who is of course throwing a football around. And when the Jock is confronting him, I noticed he's wearing a cut off T-shirt, just a plain black T-shirt that just has a giant #7 on the front of it, which is great because it looks like a uniform. It's also not a uniform you would wear at any sport. And the number is not on the back, it's like right on the front.

26:28 But it's like Michael Bay had $4.00 to show a Jock uniform and he was like, I got it cut off T-shirt, put the number seven on the front of it. I feel like every single jock performance like this in a movie that like means nothing to the movie. It's just like, hey, here's a cardboard cut out of a jock. I feel like they are all lacking in comparison to Joe Manganiello in the first Spider Man with Tobey Maguire. That like that to me is the peak cardboard cut out athlete performance and everybody else just is is a is a lesser man. Well, here's the thing. Jocks in high school were absolute jerks.

27:10 But it wasn't because they were constantly talking about sports. Like the sports were an outlet for them to continue being douchey. But like in movies like this, it's just like he's throwing a football every time you see him. He's like, in the classroom, probably throwing a football. And then he goes up to Shia LaBeouf and he's like, hey, aren't you bad at sports? And like, there's there's no other topic of conversation. There's no other way that he can be mean unless it's by comparing Shia LaBeouf to himself. I don't know why we're spending so much time on the jock character here, Brad, but we have to talk about both Shia LaBeouf and Megan Fox. I was going. To say the jock is about as deep as any other character in the movie Bob so. Ostensibly, Shia LaBeouf and Megan Fox are the main characters here.

27:53 Who do you want to start with, Brad? Let's let's just start with Megan Fox and then move our way to the top. Megan Fox performs a minor miracle throughout this film, and it is that when I first see her in the classroom, she looks to be 27 years old and she looks younger. As the movie goes on, I think she taps into some sort of like youthfulness where by the end of the film I bought that she was a teenager and I and she doesn't look like a teenager, but she's only 21 when this movie is made, so it's not like egregious casting it, man. This movie has been the subject of a lot of think pieces over the years that talk about how this is kind of the primary example of what people mean when they talk about the male gaze in film. And man, that scene where she's fixing his car is pretty much like Exhibit A, but like that pretty damning evidence against Michael Bay on that front.

28:47 But aside from all that, like, I didn't think Megan Fox was bad in this movie. I thought she was pretty good, given the fact that her character goes an inch deep, you know? Yes, 100%. I I found myself throughout the entire film wondering why the the writers of the script couldn't have given her any more depth. Because at the end of the day, I actually think Megan Fox is a really good actress. And I think throughout this film you can tell that she is working way above what this script offers her. And there are some really bad lines in here for her. But she's courageous and she has opportunities to show like what she's made of as a character, and I think she squeezes everything out of this character that she can.

29:38 At the same time, Shia LaBeouf is man, it's really funny. It was one of the first people that even as a teenager I had watched him on the Disney Channel show, Even Stevens and Brad, when you wake up on Saturday morning and watch Disney Channel shows, like there is not a wealth, not a plethora of talented people floating around on those shows. And it was very obvious, like even as I watched that show as a kid, I was like this is like a way better actor than most kid actors. And when he made the jump to movies, when he did holes, I was like oh, he's he can legitimately act. And then he gets his really big, you know, action movie break here and then things start to kind of fall apart in his personal life.

30:19 But I've always, he's always been one of those guys. For me that is like a huge what if like I I really think he had the chops to be one of the biggest stars in Hollywood and like an Oscar nominated actor, he's a good actor and he spins out of control so hard that within a few years he gets, you know, Bill Simmons talks about this on all of his podcast like people getting market corrected by an up and Comer. He gets market corrected by Miles Teller so hard that it's like like I love Miles Teller. He's also a great actor. But Miles teller's one year younger than Shia LaBeouf and I don't think we realize that sometimes because like Miles Teller didn't get famous for 7-8 years after this movie.

31:01 But I think Shia LaBeouf lost out on so many great roles because of what was going on in his personal life and he really is for me one of the big what ifs of our generation. Yeah, they they look so much similar. They feel like they have a very similar acting style that I'm like, yeah, I could easily see him in something like Whiplash and I it it makes me watch Shia LaBeouf in a unique light, 'cause I I think that there's talent there, but man, when you don't have the right people around you to keep you healthy, it it feels like that just has such a detrimental effect on what your career could have been. I am curious though, what did you think of the performance here because you said Josh Demelle was good but then you said everybody else isn't. I do think that there's an element of Shia LaBeouf that is not cut out for the really goofy, dumb comedy that this movie tries to go for sometimes.

31:59 But there was never really a point where I thought, he's bad, you know what I mean? Like, I thought that I thought this might not be his wheelhouse, but it's almost like when DiCaprio tries something that's kind of out of his wheelhouse and you're like, he's such a good actor. Like, I don't care that this isn't a perfect role for him, You know what I mean? Sure. I I think that there's a big difference between DiCaprio and Lebafter. Oh no. But I like you and I every time we talk about DiCaprio or like, he's really great at this one kind of character. And then sometimes he tries other things and it's still good because it's Leo. But like, you know, it's it's out of his wheelhouse. Yeah, and I would say horny teenager who has the fate of the world in his hands isn't quite Shia Labeouf's wheelhouse. I'm just just throwing it out there, dude. It's such a weird choice.

32:50 I I don't know if maybe there's something about the cartoon that made him a a a better choice for what they thought the character was going to be. But I I don't know, man. I feel like there was better actors that could have been chosen for this role. I think Shia LaBeouf is OK. I think he's very earnest, which I like, but overall I I think his performance is just decent here. Think he's miscast, man? I mean, at the end of the day, the star of this movie is Michael Bay's explosions. And I think that's why I wanted to get all this stuff out of the way in the front part of the episode. Because Brad, if I if I could be frank with you, it's really bad.

33:30 Like everything about this movie that isn't the Michael Bay stuff is really, truly awful. And I was struggling hard and and even texting you in the middle of the movie being like I have like a deep seated, visceral negative reaction to this movie. Like it's very rare that I watch a movie and it's not just like oh, this is bad or this is boring, but like I hate what is happening on screen right now. I hate that I'm wasting my time watching this. Like none of it worked. It was an assault on my senses. It was kind of gross. It was kind of like it made me feel icky with the way that the the sexual politics of this movie. And then you got the last 30 minutes and it's like, this is a freaking master class in action movie filmmaking, Yeah. And I mean, now you know how I feel about The Assassination of Jesse James by The Coward Robber 4. If only Michael Bay had directed that film. Yeah, that that would have been a heck of a movie. All right, man, I think we're in an OK spot to press pause. Let's drink some whiskey, and then we'll come back and talk about what's good in the film, because I'm really struggling to figure out where my final score is going to land, and perhaps you and the whiskey can help me with that. So let's drink some Rebel 100 rye. What do you say?

34:43 Yeah, let's get to it, man. All right, so today we are checking out Rebel 100 Straight Rye Whiskey. Now this is Brad, not a Kentucky Straight Rye whiskey because it is made by a sister distillery of Luxco, the company that makes the Rebel brand. It's produced in Indiana. It is a 51% rye mashbill. Now Brad, we've had a few rye Mashbills over the years. 95.5 is probably the one that we like the best and it's the one that comes from MVP. Mostly 51% rye is also another really popular rye mashbill because in America people like bourbon.

35:24 People like the sweetness of a bourbon whiskey in their glass. And so rye manufacturers are like, hey, the flavors of rye are sometimes off putting for people. Let's basically tamper that down as much as we possibly can and and introduce a lot more corn into the mash bill. And So what you get is a a concoction that's just barely technically rye because it's 51%. This one's 51% rye 45 corn for malted barley. As a rye drinker, Brad, do you have anything against a 51% rye or is it like, is it all the same to you? Yeah, I mean, I I think that there are 51% Ryze that do it well. In general, I'm gonna look for something that packs a really beautiful rye punch that can also bring some really rich flavors along with it.

36:20 And I think that's where Ryze are at their height and weirdly I think that that becomes more pronounced when you have a 95.5 type of rye. I think sometimes the the 5145 that they're doing here just you lose a little bit of that of that rye flavor. So I I don't know, we'll see where we're at on this Rebel 100. I am coming in favorably because of the name on the bottle though. I was going to say we can't go any further without talking about this. Rebel is probably our favorite brand to talk about on this show. We have given them just so much free publicity over the years. Brad, I I need to just invoice them for the amount that we've talked about them because like truly we fell in love with Rebel 100 Bourbon as a sub $20 bourbon pick. It's a great mixer.

37:11 It's great on its own. It is really easy on the wallet. And then we started kind of creeping up their vertical to the Rebel Distillers collection and the Rebel Single Barrel. And like, they're all really good. Rebel Cask strength really good. I would take Rebel over Weller in most cases, especially for a weeded bourbon that is affordable and easy to find. Yeah, 100%. We are here to tell you Rebel makes really good whiskey, especially if you're looking for those weeded varieties. There is just so much flavor that they offer I I I can't tell you how much of a fan we are. I do think it's interesting, though, to be jumping into a new expression that, you know, isn't quite that weeded stuff that we all know and love.

38:00 All right, man, let's get into this rye. Brad, what are you picking up on the nose of Rebel 100 Rye? This is a nice nose. I think that it has a lot of ethanol it it just kind of comes across young Bob, there's some young rye, there's some breakfast tea. Vanilla ethanol, I I don't know it, it's decent, but it's not a super compelling nose. I think I'll set it a six out of 10. Yeah, I might be even a bit lower than you on this one, Brad. There's there's a lot of ethanol here. You're absolutely right about that. When you push through it, the next note I get is corn sweetness. There's like a almost Caro syrup, really, really sweet corn here and then to finish off the nose is where that young rye comes into play.

38:46 On the back of the bottle it says that this is only aged for 24 months. I think that has a lot to do with it and I think part of the 51% rye mash bill may be a behind the scenes effort to kind of pump out a lot of young rye and to cover it up with some sweetness. Now again, we haven't gotten into the tasting yet, so I don't want to accuse them of anything on that front. But like, it seems pretty obvious to me, Brad, that the rye part of this is a little too young. Is that fair? Oh, 100% Bob. So I'm going to give it a 5 1/2 on the nose, and Brad, I'm going to take a sip while you give me your tasting notes. Yeah, I I think that the flavors here are all correct, just a little bit lacking. Like you get mint, you get dill.

39:32 For me there is like a little bit of a Sour Patch Kid flavor but without the sugar E Ness. I I often like to eat some toast with just a little bit of honey on it and I feel like this kind of mimics that flavor of of a honeyed piece of toasted bread. It's OK I I came up a little bit from my nose and gave it a 6 1/2. It's just it's young and it and it's cheap and and that's OK. Yeah, I'm kind of in the same place again. This is 51% rye. So, like, it's just barely a rye. I don't know if I would ever peg this as a rye whiskey. It tastes like a a very inexpensive, not well aged bourbon. There's a lot of sweetness here, and I think that whatever notes that you could discern as rye notes are, they're mostly just like I I could also chalk those up to being like a young bourbon with some like, herbal notes.

40:28 Yes. And so that's what really bums me out here is that there's just not much rye character to this. It's not as bad as the nose was for me, and especially at the price point, I might be being a little bit generous. I'm going to give it a six on the taste. Yeah, and I think the finish is is a six out of 10 as well. It is short, it's an offensive, a lot of the mint kind of sticks around and leaves a pleasant kind of sweet mint flavor on your on your palate. It's an OK finish. I don't know if there's anything to write home about Bob. Yeah, I mean, I'm going to give it a six as well. I I think to be frank, it's probably not even as good as a six, but because it's so inoffensive, I'm, I'm fine with just giving it a six, you know what I mean?

41:11 On the balance, I think this is kind of like a six whiskey across the board, Brad, which is a huge bummer. I don't want to again, you know, Lux Rose not receiving money from us and we're not receiving money for them. So we can say what we want. But like, I was really looking forward to this one. It it's just not delivering for me, man. Yeah, I mean I I think balance wise though I would say that with what they have to work with, I actually think this is a pretty decent balance. I give it a 7 out of 10 on balance. All right. So you give it a 7 out of 10. And Brad, I'm pretty sure that this is retailing for $19.00, at least it was in Kentucky where I bought it. Did you know if they sell this in Ohio?

41:51 They do. It is 2199. Oh, $22.00 in Ohio? That jumps us into a completely different price bracket. Oh man, one out of 10 for Bob. What are you thinking on this one? I think $22.00 is really cheap Bob. I I think that if you want to jump into the next level, I think you go spend $3032.00 on Ryan Suns from our friend Andre Houston. Mac. Yeah, go go check that out if you want to spend a little more money on a rye. And I think that like, you're definitely spending eight to 10 more dollars on that for a reason. But at $22.00, I think this gives you hints of what a rye could be.

42:33 That's why I think it's an OK value. I'll stick it a 7 out of 10 here. Yeah, I mean it's it's pretty hard to get anything cheaper than $22.00, especially for ARAI. I'll give it A7 as well. Just as a gesture of goodwill to Lux Row. I'm coming out to a 30.5 out of 50 on this. Brad, where are you falling? I am at a 32.5 out of 50 all. Right. So we're averaging out to a 63 out of 100 or a 31.5 out of 50. I think that's pretty fair. This is like, I don't even think it's like a six whiskey so much as it is a 6W because it is $22.00. I've been using it as a mixer pretty extensively. I used.

43:17 I've been making a lot of mules lately and I like a little bit of rye in my mules sometimes, so I've been throwing this in there. It is indiscernible from bourbon in a mixer. It it's indiscernible in my Glen Cairn from bourbon Brad, and I think that's kind of the downfall of this. But like, even if you buy it, sit on it for a while, use it as a mixer, you're not going to be disappointed because you only spent $22.00 on it. Yes, Yep. I I think that's the reality of where we're at, Bob. This is a really cheap whiskey and if you're interested in it then you know what you're getting and I'd say go for it. All right, man. Well, let's carry this. I don't know. What would you call this? Goodwill. How do we feel about this? Whatever it is, let's carry it back into talking about Transformers.

44:03 What do you say? Yeah, let's get to it, man. All right, everybody. That was Rebel 100 rye, a whiskey that we're still. I don't know if the jury is still out, Bob. I I just don't know if there's a lot more to say. Yeah, I mean, kind of similar to this movie, honestly, Brad? Yeah, you're not wrong, man. I do think it is time, though, to move into Canada's favorite segment, Bob. You know what that is? Oh, it's called 2 facts and a falsehood. 2 facts and a falsehood. Brad is going to try to stump your ball. 2 All right and what is wrong?

44:43 2 facts and a falsehood. 2 Facts and a Falsehood is the part of the show where Brad presents me with three items as fact about the making of this movie, one of which is a complete lie, and I have to figure out which one that is. Brad, I'm doing pretty good on the season. I've bounced back a little bit. I'm at 12:00 and 7:00 on the year or on the season rather. I don't know man, how? How are you feeling? I feel pretty good. I I think that 2 facts and the falsehood continues to be an opportunity for me to mess with you and I I will. I will kill for those opportunities, Bob. Well, you already know that I have absolutely no idea about anything with the making of this film or its existing IP.

45:24 So the the the time is ripe for you to get a win. Here, Brad hit me with your two facts and a falsehood. Fact number one Peter Cohen, the original voice of Optimus Prime, described reprising the role as, quote slipping into an old pair of very comfortable shoes and was grateful for the fans for wanting him. Was grateful to the fans for wanting and bringing him back. Fact #2. Michael Bay originally wanted an Apple iPod for Simmons demonstration of the Allspark, but Apple CEO Steve Jobs objected to the use of his products and a Nokia cell phone was used instead. Fact #3 director Michael Bay took a lot of Flack from the fans of the original cartoon when he changed Bumblebee's color scheme from red and green to yellow and black. When asked to comment on the change, Bay simply said I'm not making a Christmas film.

46:20 OK, so for #2, let me I didn't quite hear it correctly. Did you say an iPhone or an iPad? IPod Bob. It used to be the small device that only carried music, and you'd put these wired headphones from the device into your ears. When we graduated high school, I saved up my money for my graduation party and I went and bought myself an iPod and it was like the. Really nice thing in the world. It was like the kind I got, like the one with the most storage on it. It was gigabytes and gigabytes. And I filled that thing with music. I missed the days of the iPod, Brad. I really do. Yeah, having a device that only did one thing was was kind of nice. We didn't even know what we had, Bob. We sure didn't, man.

47:06 OK, listen, I'm immediately drawn to #3 as the falsehood here. Just because. Why the hell would you name a character Bumblebee and then not color him yellow and black? I don't know, man. Like would you give me one That obvious though? Maybe that's up to you, man. You're you're the decider here, Robert. OK, I'm going to just go ahead and say #3's the falsehood because I want to talk about Michael Bay and I kind of don't care if I'm wrong on this one, Brad. Bob, the obvious trick has not deceived you. You are correct. Hey, I did it. I know what color a bumblebee is. Yeah, good job, man.

47:47 All right. And that puts me at 13 and seven on the season. I've got a little bit of wiggle room now to lose a few. If I'm as flippant as I was today, Brad, I think that I might actually end up losing a few here in the coming weeks. All right, dude, let's talk about Michael Bay. Had you seen any Michael Bay films? I mean, aside from this one, like prior to watching Armageddon this season? Like what was your level of familiarity with Michael Bay? Boom. That's about all I knew about Michael Bay, Bob. So from a watching movies perspective, had you seen anything except for this? No, I I've seen this in 10 minutes to the second one. All right, so. No Armageddon, no ambulance.

48:30 I don't, I don't know what other films was he famous for pre Transformers. So his His first big movie was 96. His movie called The Rock. It's Nicolas Cage and Sean Connery. Then he does Armageddon. I don't know, he had one with Ewan McGregor in the early 2000s. That was kind of a flop, but people like it a lot. I think it's called The Island. Oh, I love the island. Oh, there you go. Yeah, true. Like, truly. I remember watching that growing up and thinking it was just such a cool sci-fi movie. Well, there you go. Boom bang. Michael Bay. There you go. You've seen a few Michael Bay Movies Now. I think you have a feel for what his visual style looks like, what his marks as an auteur are. How a how does this work for you as a Michael Bay movie? And where does this one fall when you're comparing it to, like, Armageddon and the Island?

49:22 Oh, that's tough, man. I think that Armageddon weirdly makes more sense for all the ridiculousness of the characters in it. I I think he just does a much better job of setting up the characters. The to be honest, the funniest parts of this movie are when the Autobots, like, don't understand human culture and they're they feel very alien. Other than that, all of the human comedy just kind of falls super flat. Where so I when I watch Armageddon, the humans feel a lot more fleshed out in their caricature Ness.

50:02 And so I I don't, I don't mind them nearly as much as I do in this film. I think that Armageddon is probably him at his best it it's been so long since I watched The Island. Though I I do, I do remember loving that movie. All right. Let's talk about the last half hour of this movie because I literally watched it, enjoyed it, went to the grocery store, came home to record with you and was like, man, all of the things that I had in my brain from that last sequence are gone now. So I went, I went on YouTube and I found a clip and it was like the last battle from this movie. And it had action only. So they cut out all the dialogue and all the cutaways. And it was perfect because it was like the purest distillation of here's what Michael Bay brings to the table and Brad, there's a there's a couple things I want to talk about, one of which is just the visual look of the film.

50:51 Michael Bay is known for really high contrast imagery and I mean that like like the black levels are are turned way up and then anything that's really light in the image is kind of washed out. Sometimes I think that looks so good when it comes to his movies holding up over the years, like we've kind of gone in that direction in in some ways with the way we make TV and film anyway. And it stands in such it stands in contrast to like the washed outlook of the MCU and how there's like no contrast and everything's kind of Gray there. It makes these movies look really crisp and alive. And it's not, it's not pretty, but it is beautiful in a way.

51:35 You you mentioned that earlier that this movie has a beautiful look to it. I would agree with that. Yeah dude, this movie looks really pretty like I I just think that if you want to evaluate this film on how it looks, I think the CG stands up really well. The the the Autobots never feel like they are in a different realm. Like they feel very grounded and real. And I think that the high contrast style of the the picture itself helps a ton when you have super bright shiny alien robots running around the screen all the time like I I think that that helps them pop, but it keeps the rest of the film from washing out.

52:24 Well, and I think that the second thing I want to talk about is how well the effects hold up. And I say that with the caveat that anytime they're showing a Transformers face, it looks terrible, like you're just not going to make a robot talking look good anyway. But it's especially bad the the faces. But literally everything else in this movie looks fantastic. And it's because I think a, it's easier for CG to generate like like metal, like surfaces sometimes than it is to make something that looks realistic like flesh. But also Michael Bay is known for doing so much practical on set stuff. There's so much rubble and debris and stuff being blown up and sparks being lit off that if you have a good CG team working with you, you can use the elements that you're filming on the day and kind of layer in the CG elements so that it it really blends seamlessly with what's going on. And I think the key here is like, this wasn't all just filmed on one giant sound stage that was covered in green and blue walls.

53:30 Like there's very clearly an actual road and buildings, whether the buildings are set or not. But there's a tactile Ness to everything here. And I think the CG is like it. It blends perfectly. I was shocked at how good this looked. Brad. Dude, the human eye and the human brain can tell what's real and what isn't. And when you have more on screen that is real than is computer generated, it helps the CG blend in much more seamlessly. It it keeps it from being in an uncanny valley. I I just, I I cannot say enough about how much I wish modern CG films would learn from from the things that we saw here in Transformers. 100% man. There's a shot during that final battle and they they show this woman who's in the street and I thought it was Megan Fox at first.

54:26 It's not, it's just some random lady. It's a slow motion shot and one of the Decepticons is coming from down the street and there's, you know, there's chunks of asphalt flying, there's sparks going. He dives over her in slow motion and then like goes and fights somebody else down the street and man, hey, first of all, I think the the way the shots are designed in this movie is really great. It's super intricate. Some of these shots, and I'm kind of blown away still at how they managed to take really difficult shots that filmed real things and layered the CGI over them. But that shot in particular is like, it's like a Michael Bay wet dream. It's slow MO, there's stuff blowing up, there's a pretty lady and then you get to see robots fighting and it's just all done in a wonder.

55:11 And man, I just like, this is freaking beautiful. This is why Michael Bay gets paid. Like he made this movie worthwhile to me with just a few shots at the end of the film. Yeah, 100% man, that he has an incredible talent for shooting action. And I I think that if you allow him to just do that and make this like an hour and 40 minute film, I think that this is like minimum an 8 out of 10 movie, if not approaching a nine out of 10 if you cut out so much of the stuff that they just isn't good at. Well, I mean, I think you could cut out like the entire John Turturro character and subplot.

55:52 I think you could cut out pretty much the entire Anthony, what's his name is Anthony Anderson character. And even like the knockoff Margot Robbie character that's hanging out with them, like, get rid of both of those people. We don't really need them beyond her finding this signal at the beginning. Cut out Shia Labeouf's parents and everything to do with those scenes and you've already trimmed this movie down to about two hours and it works you. Don't want to hear them. You don't want to hear them talking about Shia Labeouf's happy place. Happy time. Yeah, I told you a few weeks ago, Brad, that any time we were talking about dirty things on the podcast, I would say that Lord Cummington is making an appearance again. And boy oh boy, he show up for Shia Labeouf's Happy Time. All right, man.

56:40 What a movie, Bob. What a film. Movie. Let's get into. Let's make it a double, Brad. We're near the end of the episodes of Things Listening to the Film and Whiskey show. Let's pair another film with this one, even if it's struggling. It's a final segment of the day. Now let's make it a double. Let's make it a double is the part of the show where we pick a movie to pair up with this one to make the perfect double feature. Brad, I think there's a lot of directions you can go here. I think you could do Pacific Rim. It's pretty obvious. You could do Independence Day. You could do Armageddon. I would like to hear what you came away with and if I've already stepped all over it with all these films I've been talking about. You kind of did. I I think Pacific Rim is like the perfect pairing. However, I'm going to go with a film that I think is just as bad as Transformers on the script front, where whereas weirdly I feel like Pacific Rim knows what it is and and doesn't try to be more, and therefore the script is better, I'm going to go with 2011's Real Steel.

57:41 Another film I have never seen. Yeah, it is. Basically they took the Rock Em Sock Em robots from the 80s and turned it into a movie. And it's bad. It's it's not good. All right, man, Brad, I think I am going to be boring and just kind of pick Independence Day again because I like Independence Day. I like watching it. I think that it is. It is significantly goofier than this movie is like in terms of there's some effective horror elements in Independence Day but you'd never feel like it's more than just a cheesy 90s movie.

58:21 Where is this one is trying to simultaneously balance like really dumb grandma's boy type humor and like a a an Iraq war desert movie and it just doesn't work sometimes. So I want to watch Transformers to appreciate Michael Bay and then I want to say, hey, let's also watch a movie that I think tries the same thing with the script and does it better. And that's Independence Day for me. Yeah, I I can't say you're wrong, man. I I think I still just come back to I think Transformers is prettier. But I Independence Day is the better film. Well, let's see how much better Brad, because it's time for us to give final scores here.

59:02 This is really hard, dude. I I was, I was prepared to give this movie a solid 4 or 3 1/2 because it is truly, truly bad except for the Michael Bay stuff. And those 7 minutes I watched on YouTube were like 9.5 out of 10 action movie filmmaking. How much does that redeem a three movie? I think I'm going to give this movie A5 point. Not even that I'm going to give it a 4.5 out of 10. 4.5 Bro Normally when you you're like teetering, you drop 1/2 point. You just dropped a whole point from where you were at. Well, again, my benchmark is like The Phantom Menace, which I think is a bad movie.

59:48 The Phantom Menace is a significantly more unified vision and piece of filmmaking than this is. Oh yeah, 100%. That's because The Phantom Menace is a great film. I will give this a six out of 10. I like. I think on IMDb this is sitting around a 7 out of 10. I think that's a little bit high for me. It doesn't work in a lot of ways, but it's pretty and it's a fun action movie. 6 out of 10. I I think I would be OK if I never watched this again in my life though. Me too. I might watch that YouTube clip again, but I'm not watching this whole movie again. Ever. Ever. Brad, we have a new lowest rated film of the season now at a 5.25 average. Transformers.

1:00:34 How do we feel about that? Is this worse than My Big Fat Greek Wedding? Oh. I don't, I think, Oh, that's tough. My Big Fat Greek Wedding is pretty rough. I don't know that I'm like truly thrown for a loop because in certain ways you can tell, you can see where the money was spent on this film and you can tell that there was no money to put into my Big Fat right. So I think that's what makes it hard, is that this is like so much more well crafted visually as a film. I don't know you. You decide for me. OK, well, I'm just going to go ahead and say they're both bad, and I'm glad that they're both behind us now. But next week, Brad, we're watching a film that is, I think, gets an undeserved rap for being bad. It's bad in the context of Steven Spielberg's catalog, but it's still better than most movies, and that is Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, a film that I just watched for the first time last year. Brad, where are you on this Indiana Jones movie? Watched it when it came out and hated it. Sorry.

1:01:44 For some fun, then we should are Well, that's it for Transformers today, folks. If you want to talk to us about this movie or our upcoming Indiana Jones, watch. You can find us on all of our social medias Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube at Film Whiskey. Yeah, or you can join the Discord. We are on there every single day talking to you guys, fans of the Film and Whiskey Podcast. So if you'd like to join the conversation, you can find a link to our discord at the end of every single one of the show notes. We'll be back next week talking Spielberg and Harrison Ford. And again, aliens. But until then, I'm Bob Buck. I'm Brad G. And we'll see you next time.