The Wolf of Wall Street (2013) / Green River Wheated Bourbon

0:00 In 2013, director Martin Scorsese and star Leonardo DiCaprio gave the world a debaucherous rampage through the personal life of an egotistical maniac. In 2025, we pair up the Duchess of Bay Ridge with the Pride of Owensboro. The film is The Wolf of Wall Street. The whiskey is Green River weeded bourbon. And we'll review them both. This is the film and Whiskey. Podcast.

0:49 Welcome to the Film and Whiskey podcast, where each week we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey. I'm Bob Book. I'm Brad G. And this week we're looking at 2013's The Wolf of Wall Street, a film that, if I'm being 100% honest with you, Brad, I really kicked the can down the road for a long time on us reviewing this movie because to give a peek behind the curtain into Bob's life, I was not a fan of this movie The first time I saw it. And then it was one of those films, I think I've told you this before, much like 2001, another classic film that I don't vibe with. I've given it many chances over the years. Unlike 2001, I think I can officially say that I've come around on this movie.

1:34 So all the hot takes I've been saving for nine seasons are kind of irrelevant now. Brett Yeah, they they're invalid the same way that Leo and Jonah Hill spend much of this movie, just completely unable to make a salient point. You know, I I will say I did not like you shooting down my idea of us deviating from whiskey reviews into Quaalude reviews today. I thought that would have been great. I've been sitting on these lemons for so long dude. If there's anything that I am all about, it is taking illegal substances and then doing podcasts. The truth will emerge one way or the other, Brad. It sure will, Bob. Well, hey, welcome into film and whiskey, folks.

2:15 If this is your first time joining us, what we do here is talk about movies and talk about whiskey. This It's going to be a heck of a first episode for you my. Friend. So many references to so many different orifices today, Brad. Yeah, it's it's going to be a rough one. This season what we're doing is we're looking at movies from the last 20 years and we're asking the question, does this film deserve to be considered a modern classic? Now, The Wolf of Wall Street is an interesting movie in Martin Scorsese's Ovra because it was, I believe, his highest grossing film of all time. It came out and was a very big hit. I mean this is. Wonder what that says about the American public, Bob. This is what, at least his 3rd or 4th collaboration with Leo at this point, and Leo is at the height of his popularity here. So this movie, it made a lot of sense. But it came out and was, I mean, it caught the zeitgeist, right? Like people love raunchy comedies. It's Scorsese doing essentially a Goodfellas esque format. As a huge raunchy comedy starring the biggest name in Hollywood, it was kind of destined to make a bunch of money.

3:27 It was nominated for best picture. It is a fairly beloved film still, so it makes a lot of sense that it would come up on our list this season. Brad. Yeah, and it's also feels like it makes sense 'cause we also watched The Big Short this season, which is referenced in this movie. I caught it. When he's talking to the feds, he's like, hey, I can give you Goldman Sachs and Lehman Brothers. Let me tell you about these collateralized dead oblations that they're doing. And I was like, hey, I know what that is. Wait till they find out about the CDO squared Brad that. Dude, it's it's all going downhill from there, my friend.

4:09 I have a lot to say about this movie and perhaps it's because this movie is 3 hours long, Brad. It is the equivalent of watching two of our beloved 90 minute movies. So back-to-back, man, there. There's a lot going on in this film. I think before we dive in, let's just get to Brad explains right off the bat here because otherwise we're just going to be saying a lot of really inappropriate things that people won't understand are actually references to the movie. So folks, let's get into Brad explains Brad's gonna. Give us the movie plots with only 60 seconds ticking on the clock. So let's go ahead and do your take with this little segment that we call, Brad explains. Brad Explains is the part of the show where Brad breaks down the plot of the film that he has just seen, often for the first time. I'm realizing now that I have no idea what your history with this movie actually is, Brad.

5:00 I watched this movie maybe two or three years ago just kind of on a whim. It, it was a movie I knew should be on my list. I knew it was debaucherous and I wasn't sure if I wanted to watch it, but I was like, well, I don't, I don't know if we're going to do it for the podcast. So I'll, I'll go ahead and sit down and watch it. I was actually pleasantly surprised at how much I enjoyed the film the first time through. And so that I mean to answer your question, that makes this the second time that I've seen it. All right, so Brad, famously a famous lover of debaucherous films as you are, I'm just the best. I'm sure you'll have much to say here, folks. If you have not seen The Wolf of Wall Street yet, we are gonna spoil the movie here, and Brad explains. So hit pause here, go watch the movie, take a shower, and then come back and join us for the rest of the episode. Brad, you have 60 seconds and go. The Wolf of Wall Street is a film about a man named Jordan Belfort and his rise as a from a no name nothing stockbroker on Wall Street to a just lecherous multi multi millionaire yacht riding, drug hazed wild time of a life. And how he cheats on Kristen Milioti, which is insane. And Bob, he does lots of drugs

6:32 and he gets in trouble with the feds and he gets into a giant storm on a on his boat and he gets thrown in jail and nothing bad happens to him because he's rich and and you should all be rich like him, right, Bob? There it is. That's the lesson, right? That that's that's the only lesson I learned from the movie. That's the lesson that matters anyway. All right, so that's The Wolf of Wall Street. Let's just go ahead and dive in. Talking about the debaucherous nature of the movie. Not in in. I'm not like casting aspersions or judging it for what it is. The movie is purposely as big and over the top in every way as it is.

7:12 And I think that there's a word that I saw printed once it was in reference to a Kanye West album called My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy. And they they, they called it maximalist. And I'm sure that that's a real word, but I'd never actually seen it applied to a work of art before. I'd always heard minimalist. And I think that maximalist applies to this movie as well. It is opulent. I don't even know if opulent's the right word because it's not like a a palace or something, but it's over the top in every single aspect in the runtime, in the acting style, in the length of the scenes, in the amount of jokes, in the amount of drugs and sex and boobs and everything else that you could possibly have.

7:57 And the the sum total of it is kind of intended to desensitize you to it. And so I'm watching this movie this time and I'm like, this is perhaps the most debaucherous thing we've ever watched for this podcast. And yet by the and yet by the two hour mark, I've seen so much stuff that it's not as if I turn this movie on to like, you know, get my jollies right? Like, you're watching this movie and you're like, good Lord. Like this guy's life is horrifying. Yeah. And, and I think a lot of people pushed back on the movie when it came out because it didn't seem like Scorsese was doing enough judging of him. Right?

8:40 Like the the end of the movie where he's finally caught, they put a bow on that in like 5 minutes and you have two hours and 55 minutes, which seems to be celebrating the lifestyle that he he leads. And I think that that's a really crappy way to read this movie. Like just observing it for three hours is enough of an indictment of this guy. You don't need Scorsese preaching at you to get the point. 100% And that is the beauty of this film. And like what draws me into it is that he's not indicting Jordan Belfort for how he lived his life. He's indicting the audience for their desire to live a life like that. And, and I think that the movie is, strangely enough, supposed to cause self introspection to be at the end of the film and sit back and go, huh, if I could have the life that that person that, you know, Scorsese has just shown me, would I choose it?

9:43 And you know that like that's a very honest conversation that people have with themselves or should have with themselves. And I, I think Scorsese ultimately is interested in helping people have that conversation with themselves. He just does it in a very wow depraved and immoral type of way. Yeah, sorry Matt Scorsese himself. Just the portrayal of what happened. Right, right. Well, and I think even to go a little bit further with your point, it's not just like, would I would I have that type of life? Would I want that type of life? It's also asking the question when you get to the end of the movie to ask yourself why did I enjoy that so much?

10:27 Why is it so enjoyable to look at this kind of lifestyle? And obviously it's themes that he's explored before. And I think I think if you are going to make a valid criticism of this movie, it's that this is like the 4th or 5th time Scorsese has made essentially a gangster movie in the same vein as Goodfellas, right? Like you got Goodfellas and Casino and then this being more of a explicit comedy, but I think because people expected the comeuppance at the end to be similar to Goodfellas or Casino and then you don't get it here. People kind of read that back onto this movie as like, oh, this is a pointless exercise in glorifying the crimes that this guy committed. And I I don't think that's I don't think that's fair and I don't think it's true.

11:10 And Brad, I really have, I've had a lot of thoughts on how to approach the way the movie is structured to kind of beat you down, to overwhelm you, and then to implicate you by the end of it. I'd like to hear a little bit more about what your your thoughts were on the fact that this is a three hour long movie. Like obviously it's a purposeful choice. Does the choice to make the movie so long work for you? I think that it is a chore to get through this movie. Like, if I'm being honest, it was my second time through. I am doing a mailing for work, so I'm literally just handwriting a million addresses on envelopes. And so I just kind of did that while it was on. And yeah, I paid attention.

11:59 And there's definitely parts of it that like, drew me into the point where I was like, oh, crap, I haven't written an envelope in like 20 minutes. But at the end of the day, if you are sitting down just to watch this movie, I think it's really overwhelming. And I that is the experience I had the first time through it. It takes you to the very edge of where you ever want to go as a viewer. And it does leave you with that question of like, did you enjoy that? Was that, was that worth it? Was all the sex and the drugs and the, the wild parties worth it? And I, I think that's the thing for me is that, you know, I texted you earlier like, this is an incredibly funny movie and it's so, so well made.

12:48 And I don't think I'm ever going to watch it again in my life. I I don't have any desire to come back to it. Yeah, it's weird because I, I think that this is an exercise in a filmmaker taking the form or the genre or the, you know, the format of his movie and making the the bones of the movie actually help him make his point, which is always a really risky thing to do. And I remember learning when we were in high school about the genre of satire and the book Don Quixote and how I think it's Miguel de Cervantes, right, that wrote Don Quixote and, and how he took what was essentially like the writing style of his day, which was this over long, really Florida type language when you're explaining heroic narrative. And he applied that to Don Quixote, who's this like buffoonish type figure.

13:40 And so the book Don Quixote is hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pages long because he was not just making fun of the heroes in literature in his day, but he was also making fun of the style of writing. And I think that Scorsese's kind of doing something similar here. Like he's, he's not just sending up the types of people he's portraying in the movie. He's kind of sending up himself and he's like over, you know, overwhelming Great American story type movies that he's made throughout his career. Like it's three hours long because he wants it to be 3 hours long. And for you to be like, this seems kind of pointless. Why is this 3 hours long? So it's a huge gamble.

14:21 I don't, even after seeing this movie five times, I don't know if I totally think that works, but I respect what he's trying to do with it. Yeah, I I think he could have made the movie 2 1/2 hours and still gotten the point across 100% and and saved 30 minutes of my life. I also just really want you to do Let's make it a double with Don Quixote. A book I've never read. Let's be. Clear like go go read this book and watch this. Movie and I'll see you in 2026 when you finish them both. You know what's funny about it though, Brad, I agree with you. I think the movie's too long and on rewatch this time, everything that I really remembered from the movie actually happens in the 1st 30 minutes.

15:06 Like I was shocked at how quickly they've moved into what's it called, Stratton Oakmont or whatever. And, and like he's in his new building. The girl shaves her head for money. All these things I remembered. You knock him out in like 40 minutes and I remember thinking to myself like what the hell do they do with the remaining 2 plus hours of this movie? And yes, I think they could have cut 30 minutes out of the movie in in sum total. But the weird phenomenon I had this time was I actually think this movie is aging better and better because of the direction that comedy has gone the last 10-15 years. Like if you watch a show like New Girl, it's really clear where the scripted parts of a scene end and where like the riffing begins.

15:53 And sometimes you can tell that a scene is just built around like these two guys were riffing really well and we let them get to the end of their riff and then we come back to the scripted stuff. And I think The Wolf of Wall Street was actually a little bit ahead of its time in the way that it did that. Like, I'm thinking of the scene, especially with DiCaprio and Rob Reiner, where they're just talking about how women shave everywhere now. And it just goes further and further and further and further down the rabbit hole until he makes a comment about like, huh, I've always liked the Bush. And then Dicaprio's like, OK, but anyway, dad. And then they go back to the scene again. And it's they let these, like, long spiels go on until they're all the way done.

16:33 And then they return to the scene. And I think that if you're not vibing with the movie, those can get super repetitive and kind of frustrating. But I think the style of comedy that we've seen emerge in media in the last 10 years, actually kind of like you can point back to Wolf of Wall Street as one of the forefathers of this type of comedy. And it works because they have the right people and the right director. But like, there are plenty of comedies that follow in this vein that aren't actually that funny. But when you have Jonah Hill and Leo and Rob Reiner directed by Martin Scorsese, it is one of the funnier movies we have watched in a really long time. Bob.

17:15 Oh, it's so funny. And like, what's what's interesting to me is Scorsese has has always had really funny moments, even in his dramatic movies. Like Goodfellas is a funny movie at parts. And I'm always shocked at like how much of A knack he has, not just for comic timing and things like that, but in in letting himself go to really silly places. Like there are entire slapstick style scenes in this movie where I'm like, you know, I'm, I'm looking at the guy that made Raging Bull and like Silence and all these like big, heavy, monolithic dramatic movies. And I'm also watching Leonardo DiCaprio high on Quaaludes, try to open a car door with his foot and getting lifted off the ground talking about being in the cerebral palsy stage. Like it's, it's such a dumb movie that it's, it's almost like it comes all the way back around to being artistic just because, you know, Scorsese did it. Yeah, and the the moment when he looks down the stairs and it looks like it's like 60 stairs and then they show like the other camera view, like the the impersonal camera view, it's like 7 stairs there.

18:28 There's just so many funny parts to this movie. I personally, I think Jonah Hill is fantastic in this film. Near the end of the movie, when him and Jordan are sitting at his house and Jordan's under house arrest and he's asking him about the beer he's drinking. He's like, yeah, yeah, no, But like, if you drink enough of it, it'll get you effed up, right? And then he goes like, well, well, I'm not a scientist. I don't understand what you're saying. No. So Brad, I'm looking at my notes for the movie. And what I've realized is that I've made very few notes on my analysis of the movie. And it's just funny quotes from the movie because I think this, this movie has a lot more one liners than you would actually think. I just can't repeat a lot of them here. Sure can't.

19:16 Yeah. And and it goes back to what you said about Scorsese. I think he has incredible timing as a director for comedy, but it also becomes more artistic because it's Martin Scorsese. You know, like he he just everything he makes has a Genesee quoi about it. Like just this beauty to it that you're like, well, Dang it. I I don't want to think that this is funny and beautiful and so well made, but it just is. You mentioned Jonah Hill, and I think this is a good place to start talking about performances. Obviously we should be starting with DiCaprio, but Jonah Hill might honestly be my favorite performance in the movie, so I'm glad we're starting with him.

20:02 He is a cartoon character and yet at the same time, I never felt like his character was being overplayed. Like the way they set him up is he is this kind of manic drug addicted Jewish guy with phosphorescent white teeth. And then like from that description, Jonah Hill walks in and you're like, Oh, yeah, OK, this makes perfect sense. To be clear, married his cousin. Married his cousin bro what he says. I would drive it out to the country and open the door and just say be free. It's. Like an 80% chance that things aren't going to be great. Oh, man.

20:44 But yes, a lot of my notes are just Jonah Hill quotes. And you mentioned at the end of the movie when when DiCaprio is under house arrest and they're talking about how they all got found out. And he just looks at DiCaprio and says, I'll tell you one thing, I'm never eating at Benihana again. I don't care whose birthday it is. I want to hear you talk a little bit about Jonah Hill because there's some really good Jonah Hill stories from the production of this movie. Hill had obviously come out of these like Judd Apatow movies. He was known for super bad and then he was in that crappy college movie, what's it called? Accepted. And then he does Moneyball, totally different character, gets Oscar nominated for that and still has to kind of convince Scorsese to cast him in this movie.

21:29 He takes the minimum salary of I think 60 grand to be in this movie and gets Oscar nominated again. What is it about Hill that works so well for you in this movie? He I'm going to use one of my favorite words, Bob. He just comes across as sincere. Like not wait. Crucially, the character is a very insincere person. But but Hill playing it. Hill playing it is sincere. I think the character itself is actually a sincerely insincere person. Like when he goes up to Jordan and asks him how much money he makes.

22:10 I, I guess what I'm trying to say is there's a bluntness to his character and an honesty about who he is no matter what. Like he never hides who he is as a character. And I think Hill just nails the performance, the the body language of that type of character who like is extraordinarily honest about what he actually cares about. I I think he'll just portrays that with utter perfection. Yeah. I mean, I think what we're saying is he takes what is essentially a caricature and makes him seem like a real person, which is extraordinarily hard to do. And this will not be the first time that I make a comparison to The Big Short, because I think that really should be kind of how we evaluate this movie, Brad. But I made a lot of notes about Steve Carell's performance in The Big Short and how it really just felt like they put a wig on him and he did a voice.

23:12 And you were supposed to believe that this was not a real person, but it never quite transcended Steve Carell doing a voice. And here you have a character that is like immensely sillier and I would say harder to play, but he seems more like a person you would actually run into than Steve Carell's character from The Big Short. Yeah, that I honestly, I think that's a perfect comparison, 'cause I, you know, Steve Carell's great, He nails it. He does a good job in that role. Jonah Hill takes on this role of is it Donnie, Donnie Azoff, I think and and makes it into absolutely a person that you could believe exists in real life.

23:58 And I I think that's like the fascinating thing about the entire movie is that with how insanely wild everything gets, there's never a moment where I'm like, Nah, this wouldn't happen in real life. Like every single thing that goes on. I'm kind of like, yeah, that probably happens on Wall Street somewhere. Like maybe not at every brokerage firm, but I can imagine a world where that is true. All right, let's have the Leo conversation, because in the wake of Leo winning the Oscar for The Revenant, I think film Twitter has really driven the conversation about The Revenant being a crappy movie. I disagree. And I also think that Leo gives a legitimately great performance in that movie, but it's widely perceived as like a makeup Oscar or a career Oscar. And I think in the years since, people have really said he should have won his Oscar for Wolf of Wall Street, which I will also go out on a limb and say I don't necessarily agree with that either.

24:55 I still think to this day, my favorite Leo performance is probably The Aviator in terms of the ones that he's at least been nominated for. But I want to talk about this performance. Do you think that this is an Oscar worthy performance? And what is it about this performance in particular that you think he didn't win for? That's it man. I think that this is an example of. You'd have to check the other who else was running that year or in the running that year, because I think that this is an Oscar worthy performance.

25:36 It's not a no brainer Oscar performance. And I, and I think, you know, we've kind of had this conversation about Leo before. Leo is a great actor and he does incredible things. There is a part of me that feels like this is more of the same. And if anything, it it almost presages the Revenant in terms of like I'm, I'm just double, triple, quadrupling down on the type of character I can play until I get an Oscar. Which is really funny because if you think about like what he had made his bones on was like these mentally unstable, deeply haunted men.

26:22 Like the Aviator is a great example. Even a movie like Blood Diamond, he kind of has that. And by the time you get to Inception and Shutter Island in the same year, that is like peak haunted guy DiCaprio. And what he what he follows it up with is Django Unchained, which is way out of left field for him, followed by this movie where DiCaprio does not do comedy. Like, this is a very different change of pace. And then the Revenant. So they were all him trying something completely new. But I'm with you in that I think on the surface, people looked at this performance and thought more of the same. And I, I wonder if it's because his personal life influenced, you know, he's always photographed by paparazzi on a yacht with some supermodel somewhere. And I don't know if maybe people just thought like, Dicaprio's just playing himself, which is super unfair. But but yeah, I do wonder what it was about this movie that they weren't willing to go that length with him that they were by the time of The Revenant.

27:24 It's fascinating to me because I do think that The Revenant is a mixture of a performance that is Oscar worthy, but not a No brainer win mixed with a career win. Like it's like this. This performance is definitely good enough to get him nominated and we need to give Leo an Oscar. So we're going to give him an Oscar. And I don't think that those things take away from each other. I like, I do think that a career should be considered. You should understand who the person has been, what they've done for cinema as a whole. I just think when it comes to the Wolf of Wall Street, I don't know if he made himself stand out enough. Yeah.

28:08 And I I'm going to pull up the other nominees to just think about it a little more deeply. I've got him right here if you'd like me to read them off to you. Oh, please do. OK so McConaughey wins for Dallas Buyers Club and this was the big Oscar not I'm going to call Oscar bait but like McConaughey loses 4050 lbs to do that movie and that's why he's so skinny at the beginning of this movie. He's nominated and wins. Bruce Dern is nominated for Nebraska. She would tell edgy of four is nominated for 12 years a slave and Christian Bale for American Hustle, which I actually think is a great analog. Once again, we talked about Christian Bale in The Big Short and how my guy just, he's always going for it and it doesn't always feel authentic. And I think especially if you're comparing those two, Dicaprio's also kind of going for it.

28:58 But it seems authentic coming from DiCaprio. Yeah, I I think I would agree with that. I of those movies, I've only ever seen American Hustle. I liked American Hustle. It's nowhere on the level of Wolf of Wall. Street. And I, and so looking at those, I, you know, Matthew Mcconaughey's incredible. I feel like maybe this could have been the one that Leo won for. I'm always with you though, man. I think he's like pitch perfect in the Aviator. I will say like if you're making the pros and cons list for why he should, let's like, let's say you can only give DiCaprio 1 Oscar. Now you have to make your pros and cons for why it should be every performance in in the pros column for Wolf of Wall Street.

29:41 It's a completely different performance than you're used to seeing from him. And the level of physicality like there is true like pratfalls and slapstick comedy when they're doing like their slow motion quaalude fight over the counter. He's trying to get Donnie to get off the phone and it's just like 2 guys moving in slow motion, but in real time. It's absolutely hilarious. And then he takes the bump of cocaine, he gets up and he rips the telephone cord off himself and just screams step aside. It's it's pitch perfect comedic acting. And I don't think that he's gotten the credit that he deserves for that. In the cons column, though, I do feel like because this character doesn't have an arc, like he kind of he kind of gets his comeuppance.

30:28 He kind of realizes that what he does is bad, but he goes right back to it at the end of the movie. And it reminds me of like everything we ever said about Scarlett O'Hara as a character, right? She, she's Scarlett O'Hara for the whole movie. Things change around her, but she doesn't really change that much. And I'd I don't know that the Academy likes rewarding those types of characters because I think implicitly they think that it's not as hard to act those characters as it is to show a transformation. And I, I think that there is a transformation for Jordan Belfort, the character by the end of the film, it is just so minute. And he goes from being a young married guy who is like an aspiring sleazebag to like the peak King of Olympus sleazebag to like a hidden sleazebag.

31:23 And like, that's his transformation. And I do think that there's movement there within the character. But once again, this movie is not about the character of Jordan Belfort. It's about how the audience responds to him. And so I think in that level, you know, I think Leo gives a incredible performance as being someone for the audience to bounce off of, to gravitate towards, to make them think about their own lives. I want to talk briefly before break about Margot Robbie, because I don't think I'm understating it to say that there are very few roles that are have been like immediate vehicles to super stardom in the 21st century the way that this role was.

32:09 And yes, she has to get naked for the role. Like I, I understand, right? This could be. Scorsese did not require that she be naked for the role she. Just said everyone else is naked around here. Let me join in the fun. She. She. 100% chose on her own. He he offered for her to wear lingerie, other things. She she was all about it man. She's ready to go. I mean, she's in her early 20s when they make this movie and essentially an unknown. This is the one that rockets her to super stardom. And I think it's one of those rare instances where a director understands that if I get the casting right here, I am essentially like handing this actress or actor on a silver platter to the masses to be the next big thing.

32:53 Because it's it's not simply that she's so good in the role. And she absolutely is the chemistry in that like dinner date sequence with DiCaprio where she's saying like, we're not going to be friends off the charts. It's also that you are being explicitly told and shown as an audience that this is the ultimate object of desire for everyone in this movie and that she's explained as like the most beautiful woman I've ever seen. And so to have that build up and then also Scorsese to help pay it off with the way he frames her and shoots her and lights her and everything else, it is a complete star making performance. And she, she takes everything that Scorsese hands her and absolutely runs with it. Like, I, I think that's, that's the key thing for me is like, she is offered super stardom right from the bat. And I think she kind of deserves it. Oh yeah, 'cause the way that she plays Leo's character throughout the whole film is so stunningly good. And the, the way at the end of the film when she's, you know, trying to keep him from running off with her daughter feels like such an authentic representation of how a mom would be reacting in that I, I, I think she actually has a character arc and, and was incredible with it.

34:18 I totally agree and I think that Scorsese sometimes gets this like unfair accusation of not having like great female characters in his movies, which is hilarious because they're always a like the moral backbone of his movies. But usually the best performances on like a sneaky level. Like I think Lorraine Bracco in Goodfellas is next level. Sharon Stones amazing and in casino, Margot Robbie, I think should have been Oscar nominated for this movie. And I look back on her career now as it's come to this point and she's had some really big great meaty parts as the lead. You know, she's nominated for Barbie. She's nominated for I Tanya. I still think this might be her best performance when you're thinking about it like pound for pound to come out of nowhere and not just hold your own against somebody like Leo, but kind of steal every senior in against him.

35:08 It it's a feat, man. Absolutely. And I think it's, you know, a few years back we did two seasons in a row on directors and we would score out the directors at the end of, you know, doing all their movies. I think that Scorsese is just one of the absolute best directors of actors that we have working. He just is able to draw out so much of any person's talent to help them be everything they need to be. I mean, even the smaller roles, like at the end of the film when all of his Belfort's lackeys are being interviewed by the FBI or the SEC or, you know, whoever's investigating.

35:52 The way each of them have their own personality, as they all say the exact same thing, is brilliant and it's so well done. And all of those actors are better because of who's directing them. All right, man, I think this is a good spot for us to hit pause. I'm actually really excited to try our whiskey for the day. But this is a good conversation, good movie. Hopefully a good whiskey to go with it. What do you say we tried this Green River? Let's get to it. All right, so today we are checking out Green River Wheated Bourbon. Now I have to spoil our our review a little bit here. I just said I hope this is a good whiskey, Brad. And I know for a fact that this is a good whiskey because if you're an astute listener of the Film and Whiskey podcast, you will remember a couple seasons ago, in fact, in the season 7 preview episode, we actually reviewed this whiskey already. Green River had sent us 2 whiskeys to try at the time and this was our favorite of the two. And we get to bring it back again and give it a more full review this time because Green River has also just debuted their Single Barrel Weeded Bourbon. Now Brad and I received samples of the Single Barrel weeded Bourbon and the folks at Green River were kind enough to also include a sample of the standard weeded bourbon to go with it, you know, to kind of compare and contrast. But we realized we only given a 4 minute review of this thing. It's time we we give this thing

37:23 the attention that it deserves. Brad. A full 5 minute review. I say we go Wolf of Wall Street on this thing. Oh, 180 minute review. Wow, this is going to be the longest episode of all time. How long do you think we could talk about whiskey? Not that like. One specific. That's the thing. I know that we have people that only listen to the whiskey reviews and folks, I deeply appreciate you, but I I respect the hell out of you because listening to somebody describes something they're tasting for any length of time is like a very high risk. Yeah. Like you're not tasting it with me, probably. So you're just listening to me smack my gums and explain something to you.

38:08 It's it takes true commitment to listen to these sections, Brad. Yeah. What we're saying is we're still amazed that anybody listens to us. So thank you. Thank you very much. So Green River, we did bourbon. This is a 90 proof bourbon. It's non age stated so it's at least four years old according to TTB regulations. The mash bill on it is 70% corn, 21% wheat, nine percent six row barley. So when this first came out in 2023, the MSRP on it was $35. I think it's gone up a couple bucks. I'm not entirely sure, Brad, but just for the sake of argument, let's call it 40. Until you correct me later on. I'm super pumped to get into it, man. It's not very often we do a 90 proof bourbon anymore and I really do love a good low proof bourbon from time to time.

38:54 Yeah, there there is a difference between this and you know, the 110 proof bombs that we often drink. It's amazing how much of this stuff you can drink, Bob, because it it goes down smooth. It sure does, man. Let's dive into it. I'm sipping it live. I know you've already tried it, so why don't you give us your nosing notes, Brad? The nose here is cherry cordial. There's some dates. It's a little bit corn heavy there. There's a bit of like a just a nice generic simple syrup vibe. It's got a bit of a fruity nature to it, almost like a a crisp apple peel. I like this nose a decent amount. I'm going to give it a 7 1/2 out of 10.

39:36 Yeah, I like this too, man. And I think date is a really good note for this date Fig kind of that. I don't want to call it raisiny character, but in that same sort of vein, there's a lot of honey to this. I do get a little bit of almost like a like a wine finish characteristic on this, which is funny because there's no wine going into this, but it reminds me of some of the whiskeys that we've had that have been finished in like Cabernet casks or something like that. Really, really nice dark stone fruit going on here. I'm going to give this an 8 out of 10. I think the taste comes down just a little bit from the nose. It's got an apple juice character to it. There is caramel, it's nice and weedy, has a bit of a candied almonds nutty flavor to it.

40:22 Good, not great. I'm going to give it a 7 out of 10. Yeah, Brad, I'm kind of with you on this one. There's again, it's going to be a little bit unfair anytime we're drinking a weeded bourbon because you guys know our love for the Rebel line of products from Luxe Roe and even for like Weller products. And this is a very different flavor profile than either Weller or Rebel. We don't really get those. At least I don't get those cherry cola notes so much on this as we do on a lot of weeded bourbons. This one's a lot more kind of bright, like it's, I don't want to call it sour, but it's like more citrusy a little bit on that sort of like pop of sour flavor from fruit than those other ones would be. It's a little bit thinner on the mouthfeel as well. And I'm going to be honest, man, it, it tastes a little young, even as a non age stated 4 year old product, It doesn't quite have the like mature character that you get on a Weller. Now, that's not to say that this is not a good product at all, but I, I, you know, with Rebel, sometimes we found that that's punched above its weight and we've been able to recommend it as like a Weller alternative.

41:30 This one, I would say is like a very different, we're in a different ballpark with this one. Like this is a entry level weeded bourbon. If you want to try weeded bourbon or if you want one for cocktail mixing, that's where I'd put this one. I'm going to give it a 7 out of 10. Yeah, and the, the finish has kind of a lot of things you'd expect. It lingers with a really nice cherry cola vibe. There's a little bit of a dried meat peppercorn kind of feel. It gets a little bit oaky. It doesn't last long enough to be outstanding, but I, I like the flavors that sit on my palate for a while after I'm done drinking. I'll give it a 7 out of 10 here and and I think balance wise I'll give it a 6 1/2.

42:15 I don't know if there's enough complexity to to to make me love this whiskey, but I do think that they have a lot of good stuff going on. Yeah, I'm with you, man. I'm going to give it a 7 on both fronts. Like it's that apple juice character comes back a little bit on the finish and it does. It does sour just a little bit for me. Overall, I think it's a well balanced whiskey. I can understand a little bit more now why the MSRP is set in like a $30, you know, or $40 range instead of the 5060. Look, we are huge fans of the Green River Foolproof. And that is definitely a whiskey that I would say punches way above its weight class. Like if they started charging $70.00 for that, I would still say this is this is worth it, right?

42:59 I think they've got the price on this one set pretty appropriately. Brad, what is it currently selling for? Bob, this bad boy will set you back $35. Oh, so it hasn't gone up at all? That's great. It has not. Yeah, it's a great price. I think I'm going to give it a 7 out of 10 on value. Like this is a really solid whiskey at $35.00 that I think is worth picking up. I'm with you man. I'm going to give it a 7 as well, which takes my final score out to a 36 out of 50. Brad, what are you coming to? I'm at a 35 out of 50, Bob. OK, so we are at a 35.5 on average or a 71 out of 100.

43:41 Now for reference, a 35 is typically where we start recommending like a a slight thumbs up, you should try this, you should buy this. I will say I think my score was definitely boosted by the fact that they priced this so appropriately. This is like a pretty good whiskey with a great price tag. Yeah, yeah, I, I think that's where I'm at as well. It is a really cool bottle. It's a good easy sipper that you can also use as a mixer. I think this would be an excellent old fashioned mixer that there's lots of good things that you could do with this and it's not going to set you back that much. Bob, I think this is a bottle that is definitely worth buying. I agree. I agree and I would probably recommend buying before. I'd recommend trying a pour at the bar because at $35 you're looking at about, I don't know, 8-9 dollars a pour. And at that point I would just say, hey, like at the bare minimum you're talking about a 90 proof weeded bourbon that you can use as a mixer.

44:40 That's a really good cocktail whiskey. So I would say buy before you try honestly. Yeah, 100%, Bob. All right, dude, let's get back into talking about the Wolf of Wall Street. What do you say? Let's get to it. All right, everybody. That was Green River Weeded Bourbon, a whiskey that continues the tradition of just really solid, affordable whiskeys coming out of Green River. Brad, I'm going to put you on the spot right now. Next week should we do the Green River Single Barrel or should we save that as like a online blog review? What do you think?

45:22 Nah, let's just do it, dude. Let's let's give the people what they want. Knowing that those people can never get the barrel that we're drinking, we're going to review that single barrel. Yeah, it's representative of the quality that the distillery puts out, Robert. I love it. All right, so next week we'll go from the weeded to the weeded single barrel. I'm looking forward to that man. And if you want an example of the quality of stuff that we put out, you are going to be excited for our next segment of the day, 2 Facts and a Falsehood. It's going to try to stump your ball. 2 are right and what is wrong? 2 facts and a falsehood. 2 Facts and a Falsehood is the part of the show where Brad presents me with three items as fact about the making of this movie, one of which is a complete lie. Now Brad, this is a three hour long movie in which a lot of people show up and do a lot of things, so I I can imagine that the IMDb trivia page was extensive on this movie. Quite extensive.

46:24 There were lots of things to pick from. I chose my theme and I am sticking with it though. Oh, you have a theme today. I sure do. Is the theme. No, I'm not going to go there. All right, Brad, we will hear what the theme might be. Hit me with your two facts and a falsehood. Fact #1 Jonah Hill had an audible lisp when he first put in the fake teeth to play Donnie. To get rid of this, he spent over two hours on the phone calling random businesses and talking with them. By the end of the session, he had mastered speaking clearly with the prosthetics in place. Fact #2 Jonah Hill's desire to shoot a movie with director Martin Scorsese nearly caused him to renege on his commitment to shoot This is the End with Seth Rogen. However, when Seth found out that Jonah had a chance to work with Scorsese, he he had the production schedule managed so that Hill could act in both productions. Fact #3 In the scene where Jonah Hill eats a goldfish and was filmed, he was filmed with a real goldfish with animal handlers on set and he was allowed to keep it in his mouth for three seconds, but obviously not allowed to swallow it or eat it due to the animal cruelty laws. Which somehow this is my commentary, which somehow the animal cruelty laws are like, yeah, you can have the fish in your mouth for three seconds, but no longer that after that. It's cruel.

47:51 That 4th, 2nd. Quite cruel. We have determined that the threshold for fish torture is 4 seconds and. At that point it's basically Zero Dark 30 and you're going to get caught holding the leash. OK, so on that note, first of all, I thought that the theme was going to be something extremely perverted and it just turned out to be Jonah Hill. So a little disappointed in that. But on fact number three, I've heard that fact before. I'm going to say that that's a truth because I know that they like, it's been a story that they've told on like Larry King and all the late night shows and they had animal handlers. They let him put the fish in his mouth. So it's got to be one or two.

48:33 Now 1 is interesting to me because I don't know if he actually had like like teeth that had to go up in his mouth or if they just put some sort of veneers on him and would those cause him? Quite a quite a Bohemian Rhapsody. Well, that's the thing, The Bohemian Rhapsody teeth. My boy Rami never really got the hang of those things. I'm not going to lie dude I I thought his teeth looks so fake at this movie. Like when they point out how white they are and then he smiles. I'm like, wow, those are not real. Tea. No, but I think that's the point, right? So here's the thing. I don't really care about the movie. This is the end and I don't care about the production schedule of it.

49:14 So I want that to be a truth because I don't think that we should spend any time talking about that. So I'm going to say #1 is the falsehood just because it's a more interesting fact, Brad. I don't know if I follow your logic, but I do love when I have a chance to follow your illogic to a loss for you in 2 facts and a falsehood. OK so so the this is the end thing was the falsehood. That was the falsehood. What I'm saying is my logic is we usually have to go back and forth and vamp a little bit about what the falsehood was and why it stumped me and.

49:54 You didn't want it to be about. No, this is a really boring fact. Like a you got to come up with something spicier, especially for Wolf of Wall Street. Man, I I. Was trying to keep it as tame as possible. Bob. I thought it was going to Yeah. No, I'll, I'll keep it. Tame the Patriots. Don't get some. Get some spicy tape. I don't want the FCC checking in on us. All right, man, let's get back into talking about the movie. And I think perhaps a good little exercise for us, Brad, is to keep comparing this movie repeatedly to The Big Short, a movie that we both liked but definitely had our issues with. And I think having watched this movie now, what's become really clear to me is that Scorsese in this movie beat Adam McKay at his own game.

50:41 McKay really helped advance this like improv heavy style of Will Ferrell comedy with movies like Anchorman and Talladega Nights and especially Stepbrothers. Stepbrothers is so improv heavy and I feel like this movie is right in line with that. Whereas McKay was like, OK, now it's time for me to make my big Oscar E movie and I can't let this movie feel as shaggy and improv heavy. I have to make it mimic a Martin Scorsese movie and it feels like McKay tried to make a Scorsese movie and kind of failed, but Scorsese made a McKay movie and made it even better. Well I was going to say, Scorsese doesn't have to try to make an Oscari movie.

51:25 Every single movie he makes feels like an Oscari movie. So like with that to the side, he can kind of just do whatever he wants. And I'm with you, except for the fact that it feels like Scorsese already has an improv heavy style of directing. Like I feel like a lot of his movies, you know, we talked about it in Raging Bull. Like there's a lot of scenes in that movie where I'm like, oh, I don't know if the improv really works here with with De Niro, whereas it works great in other films that he does. Wolf of Wall Street being an example of it. This is a complete aside. We haven't talked about Jon Bernthal in this movie as the drug dealing friend Brad.

52:10 He does a Martin Scorsese, Robert De Niro performance. So good like that is that if you had young De Niro in this movie, he's clearly Brad like he's not. He's not Jordan Belfort and the scene where he meets and fights with Jonah Hill in the parking lot and you could tell he's like, it's such a good piece of acting because he's letting Jonah Hill be the over the top one and he's just reacting to it as like the straight man. It's such a good young De Niro performance. I just have to give Bernthal some credit there. Oh, he, he is such a funny character in this movie. And I, I do think that Bernthal is incredible in that role, as small as the role is. And I, I also this just made me think of it. I love the little ticks that Scorsese gives throughout the movie of like, hey, by the way, audience, you shouldn't like this guy.

53:06 And Brad is one of those characters where you get that, where he's like, he got out of prison and we threw him a party and he didn't snitch on anyone. And oh, yeah, he died three years later. But anyways, he was having a great time with these strippers at this party after he got out of prison. And you're like, like, hold on. What? He died three years later. There's a couple moments like that in the narration where he'll say something. Oh, it was about like the guy that married the secretary that had, you know, blown everyone in the office. And he's like, yeah, he killed himself. But anyway, at that time we were super happy. And I, and that's what I, that's the only reason I like this movie is because I think to say that Scorsese doesn't judge the character is inaccurate.

53:51 I think those are the little moments where you catch Scorsese judging the character and trying to remind the audience of what it looks like to live in the real world. And what it looks like to live in the real world is to be suicidal and to have a really poor old heart when you're like 35, when you do that many drugs. Well, and again, like he's making essentially a Scorsese gangster movie in the same style that he's made all his gangster movies. But in those movies about the mafia especially, what happens to you if you step out of line is you get killed by somebody. And the brilliant thing about making it the exact same way is that it underlines the complete difference between those people who exist in the real world and these people who also exist in reality. That when they step out of line, what happens is there is a year's long FBI investigation that only catches up to them so much later after the fact that you forget that there was even an investigation.

54:54 And when the hammer of justice comes down, ultimately only gets 36 months in prison. And it's a cakewalk for him because he's rich. And then he gets out and he still has all of his, you know, Swiss bank account money to fall back on. And he's peddling the same stuff again. It it's so brilliant because he's showing us that these guys are gangsters and they operate in the same way and they're breaking the law in the same way. But these guys get away with it. And I think that that's like that. It's honestly the most effective messaging of any of his gangster movies because of that. That I, I don't know if I would have thought of this as a purely gangster film, but I'm kind of with you man. That, like the way that they follow his life, feels so similar to Goodfellas especially, but at the end of it all, he's not.

55:43 He gets away with it, yeah. Like at the end of Goodfellas, the whole point is like, Yep, I got caught and I live the most boring life in the world in a middle, upper middle class house in like Arizona or something. And it, and this one, he's like, yeah, I'm, I'm in Auckland, New Zealand doing a, doing a sales pitch to a bunch of people, being a motivational speaker. Like it's, yeah. It's kind of a step down, but it's also like I could get right back up to where I was before if I do this for enough time, you know? And exactly. And that's the thing about it is like, no one gets bumped off in this movie. Nobody's getting whacked. And the final shot, as he's pitching this thing to all these people, again, the camera tilts up and the audience is basically breaking the 4th wall, looking at us, implicating us in. Why are we so riveted by this guy's story? Why does it appeal to us so much? And it's because what we have seen to be borne out as truth is that like, even if the United States government comes down on this guy, he still wins in the end. And like, that's a, that's a pretty chilling final message to give us.

56:50 And the thing I realized halfway through the film when he was giving his I, I'm not done yet. I'm not going speech when he's talking to the gal who asked him for a $5000 advance and he wrote her a $25,000 check. I I realized I was like, oh, this movie is about how to start a cult. Yeah, it's a it's framed as like he's a pastor giving a sermon. It's a religion to them, yes. Yes, it it if if you've listened to the Rise and fall of Mars Hill podcast, it like that just jumped into my brain and I was like, oh, this is like a secular version of a Mark Driscoll. And if, if that doesn't make any sense to you, you can leave it. Leave it to the side and keep going. But this movie is about how to start a cult around a person and Belfort does it.

57:44 And the end of the film is like, did you get sucked into do you want to join the cult? Are you, are you in on it or are you out 'cause you know where it takes you? Well, and what I love so much about those scenes where he gets up on the microphone is that they are such a clear distillation of what actually motivates Jordan. When he gets up and he like the first time, it's him saying, you know, are you behind on your rent? Good. Pick up the phone and start dialing. I want you to deal with your problems by becoming rich. Like that's the solution at at the end of the day, the thing that gets us over the hump is becoming rich. And the second time when he gets up and gives the speech you're referring to is when he explicitly says, like, this place is America.

58:26 It's the land of opportunity. And I think that, again, you know, Brad, you're usually the more idealistic one about America as a concept than I am. This is a very cynical movie about what America is or is not and what capitalism is or is not. But I think regardless of where you land on that spectrum, it's a very clearly communicated point. Yeah. And, and I think the fascinating thing for me is that this actually, I haven't thought of it until now, but this reflects Scorsese's Catholic faith so well. Like he essentially just gave us an entire movie of like, this is what the world has to offer you. Is this what you want?

59:13 Like, is this the style of life you want to live? Is this the brokenness that you want to pursue, the darkness that you want to pursue? Or do you want to pursue something else with your life? And he never once says it in the film. But I I have to wonder if, as a devout Catholic, he offered this film up as like a yeah, this is what the world can be like, but is it really what you want with your life? I mean, I think it's not a mistake that he makes this movie and silence back-to-back, you know? And what? What a wild back-to-back experiences within the filmography of any director of all time.

59:53 Well, and I you know, I think the joke is like making this movie like scarred him so deeply that then he needed to go make a movie about Jesus. But I do think that they're an interesting pairing and this will be my Segway into let's make it a double here in a second. But they're an interesting pairing because I think to your point, Brad, like it is showing the difficulty of living life the other way in silence. Where is this movie is like this is the the you know, the the the path is broad, right. The way is easy to to the depths of hell here in Wall Street. All right man. With that said, let's get into. Let's make it a double. We're near the end of the episode, so thanks for listening to the film and Whiskey Show.

1:00:35 Let's have another film with this one, even if it's struggle. It's a final segment of the day. Now let's make it a double. Let's Make It a Double is presented by Blackwood Distilling Company. It's the part of the show where we pick a movie to pair up with this one to make the perfect double feature. Brad, I am not going to be pairing this movie up with Silence. That would be 6 hours of watching movies. What order would you put those two films in? Oh. Gosh, I'd probably do silence first, because somehow silence is an even bigger downer than this movie. Yeah, dude. Oh man. I am going to pair this movie up with one that just came out a couple years ago called BlackBerry. It was about the making of the BlackBerry, and it's filmed in a very big, short Wolf of Wall Street kind of way. It's a really funny movie.

1:01:22 It's really improv heavy. Glenn Howerton from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia is unbelievable in that movie. I think it'd be a fun pairing to watch this and BlackBerry back-to-back. I have never heard of that film. Oh, it's real good, Brad. You'd like it. I'm, I'm, I'm ready. I'm going to watch it. I am going to pair this with a film I just watched again recently because it is a great background film when you're writing a ton of addresses on envelopes. And I think that both of these films follow 1 character who experiences a ton of things but ends the movie kind of where they were at at the start. I'm going to pair this with the social Network. I like it.

1:02:10 Another movie that came out in a similar era. I I think that was 2010. This is 2013. And I, I think that they're both just made by master Craftsman. And while there's not, there's not like a ton of things that tie them together, I think they're both just ridiculously well made movies about singular, interesting human beings. Yeah. The social network really did kick off this sub genre of cautionary tales about super successful people. Were the ideas like you have gained the whole world and lost your soul? This is one of them. Social Networks one of them. I've mentioned this movie called The Founder before as well with Michael Keaton, where he plays Ray Kroc from McDonald's.

1:02:52 That's a really good movie. Yeah, dude, I think The Social Network is a brilliant pairing with this movie. Thanks man, I like to do my do my homework, do research to put a lot of time and effort into this as you know. All right, so there are our picks for Let's Make it a Double. Whatever you choose to pair this movie with, you can always make it a double with Blackwood Distilling Company. And if you go to bourbonoutfitter.com/film Whiskey and use our code film Whiskey at checkout, that's whiskey with an E. You'll get 5% off your bottle of Blackwood. Brad, it's time for us to give final scores on this movie. You know, I do still have notes that we never even got to, but I, I think we've said what we need to say on The Wolf of Wall Street. It's a really good movie that I think has become more influential over the years than I ever expected it to be, and quite frankly, one of the best comedies of the 21st century. I, I don't think it's a perfect movie, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna hold off on the yes or no question on modern classic, but I will say that I'm gonna give this movie an 8.5 out of 10. I think I'm at a nine out of 10, Bob. Wow.

1:04:00 It's it is a movie I want to give like a three out of 10 to just based on the content. It is a movie I will never ever recommend anyone watch because I don't know if it's good for anyone's soul to watch it. I, but I, I just can't deny that Scorsese is a absolutely stunningly good director that just continues to make incredible films. The the craft here is, is so obvious and it's such a well made movie that I, I, yeah, 9 out of 10 for me.

1:04:40 All right, so we're coming to an average of an 8.75 out of 10. Now, Brad, the question before us is this a modern classic? Yes, and I'll never recommend it to anyone. I'm going to say yes. I also think that this is like, you know, if we're talking about the tier lists and S tier, ABCI think this is like a tier Scorsese for me, it still doesn't touch I I still think Goodfellas is like the platonic ideal of a Scorsese movie and this doesn't quite touch that for me, But it's really, really good. And I think that Scorsese's second tier is better than 90% of film makers best tier. So yes, I do think it's a modern classic. Not even best tier best.

1:05:25 Movie. Yeah, 100%. All right, so like I said, 8.75 out of 10 for us on average. But we'd like to know what you think. You can find us on all of our social media accounts to tell us about your favorite debaucherous moment in The Wolf of Wall Street. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok and YouTube at Film Whiskey. What about? What about LinkedIn? Bob, please. Spam my LinkedIn with horrifically explicit clips of this movie, folks. That's what I need my boss to see. Absolutely man. Also, if you want to talk about those explicit clips, you can find our Discord server at the end of every single one of our show notes.

1:06:08 Dude, you're going to be doing so much moderation of our Discord now. Don't don't invite explicit clips on. What are you doing, man? Next week we're going to be looking at a Best Picture winner and we're going to be doing some more whiplash when it comes to the themes of our movies as we look at the 2015 Film Spotlight. So join us for that next week. But until then, I'm Bob Book. I'm Brad Gee. And we'll see you next time.

1:07:00 Music.