The Tree of Life (2012) / Glenmorangie The Original 10-Year Single Malt Scotch feat. Bilge Ebiri

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In 2011, director Terrence
Malick and star Brad Pitt and

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Jessica Chastain gave the world
an ethereal look at how the

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cosmos fits into the human soul.
In 2025, we returned to the

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single malt that started it all.
The film is the Tree of Life.

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The whiskey is Glenn Moringy 10
year.

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And we'll review them both.
This is the Film and Whiskey

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podcast.
Welcome to the Film in Whiskey

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podcast, where each week we
review a classic movie and a

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glass of whiskey.
I'm Bob Book.

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I'm Brad.
Gee.

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Brad, I'm so freaking pumped.
We're joined by somebody else

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that all the viewers can see.
I'm going to hold off on

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introducing him just long enough
to say I'm so pumped about this

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today, man.
Because today we are talking

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about the Tree of Life.
I feel like we watched this

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movie.
It was like our fifth movie of

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the podcast.
I was brand new into the world

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of like anything that could be
considered high, high film,

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we'll we'll call it that.
I had watched like a more 10

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years before on a on a whim with
a friend.

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It was like what the F just
happened to me.

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And so coming into Tree of Life,
I was a little nervous.

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And I remember getting to the
end of it and thinking, like, I

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feel like that was like an art
house film.

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What?
Yeah, common consumer would

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consider art house.
But why did it feel so personal?

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Like, it felt way too warm to be
like this.

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I don't know, Artistic,
unapproachable movie.

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And I think we, I think I gave
it like a nine out of 10, Bob.

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I'm just gonna say right now,
this is a 10 out of 10 movie.

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Coming back to it five years
later was a great experience.

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Well, I mean, way to just
absolutely throw down the the

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gauntlet here, Brad, because now
I have to introduce our guest

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and what if he just comes in and
says like, yeah, it's fine, you

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know?
Then he would be right. 7.

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He would be 100% right because
our guest is Bilga Abiri,

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everybody.
Bilga, how are you tonight, man?

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Thank you for joining us.
I'm good.

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I'm I'm I'm very happy to join
you for this movie, which is of

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course a 10 out of 10.
It's it's on my side and sound

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list so you know it's it's.
Like there you go.

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It's top five for me, but I did.
I never listened to your first

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episode about it, so I don't
know what you said at the time,

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but I'm sure it was.
I was strongly cautioned against

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ever listening to anything from
our season #1 this.

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This is what you told me.
We've shared the story before,

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but in the early days of film
and whiskey, we sat in a room

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together.
We recorded on a conference call

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microphone, so the audio quality
is just just pretty.

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We would just, we would do 4
films in a day.

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So like I had watched these four
movies anywhere from like the

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night before to two weeks before
and you know, we're drinking

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whiskey and review and it was
like, I think Tree of Life was

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our last film of the day that we
reviewed I.

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So so so by the end of the day,
it's more of the whiskey and

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film.
Podcast, yes, it's.

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More whiskey than?
Film now Brad, to your point

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like this was this was kind of
our first big artsy movie and I

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was very nervous about
introducing this movie to you.

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And I will say I feel like I'm
known as the the Snooty art guy

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on our podcast here.
But if you look behind me at our

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our movie collection here, Brad,
you will see that I have the

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Tree of Life and and eagle eyed
viewers will also see my copy of

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the DVD for Joe Dirt right next
to it here.

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So that's right, we contain
multitudes here on the Film and

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Whiskey podcast.
We sure do, man.

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Joe Dirt a a film I made my
friends take me to for my

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birthday when it when it opened.
So that was the last time

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anybody took me to a movie for
my birthday.

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I I that is fact actually.
The last movie that I went to

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see for my birthday was 2019.
Brad turning 29.

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JoJo Rabbit.
No, there you go, this is good.

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What a weird movie to pick for
your birthday.

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You know, let me go watch this
World War 2 Holocaust film to

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commemorate the day of my birth.
Brad I.

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I have, I have great taste, Bob,
what can I say?

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What can you say?
All right, guys, let's get into

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talking about this movie.
Bilga, I I want to throw to you

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early on because every season we
send the list of films for our

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guests to choose from and you
pretty quickly jumped at the

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Tree of life.
Now I know that it's a 10 out of

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10 for you.
It's on your sight and sound

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list, but I imagine that you've
talked about this film

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elsewhere.
I've seen you write about it a

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ton, so why does it still merit,
you know, discussion for you at

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this point?
Why do you keep coming back to

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it?
That's a great question.

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It's so funny because I should
be able to answer that question.

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I mean, beyond the fact that I I
absolutely adore it and it is my

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favorite film from one of my all
time favorite film makers.

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Also the fact that I I did write
about it so much at the time

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and, and, and did a lot of
reporting on it.

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What, what one thing that's
that's always been in the back

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of my mind is, you know, when,
when Tree of Life came out, I

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wasn't, I wasn't like a first
string film critic anywhere.

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I mean, I, I, I wrote, I had my
own blog and I would

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occasionally write stuff.
I think I hadn't started doing

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full length film reviews for
Vulture yet.

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So I would, you know,
occasionally do things, but a

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lot of the stuff I wrote about
the Tree of life, I basically

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just wrote for myself.
There was one piece that there

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was one piece that I wrote for
New York Magazine.

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That was actually that I started
before I saw the Tree of life

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about kind of the, the 30 year
process it it took to make the

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Tree of life that wound up being
like a chart.

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Like I, I, I did all this
reporting.

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I spent months interviewing
people, some of whom like,

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really didn't want to be
interviewed because they were

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afraid that Malik would be upset
with them because he was such a

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private person.
I did so much reporting and

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interviews.
I mean, I, I haunted down people

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who had heard about this project
called Q back in the day.

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I like, did a whole interview
with Sam Shepard about some

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other movie just so I could ask
him about Q because he had

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apparently once read the script.
You know, I interviewed like,

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Jim McBride, the filmmaker Jim
McBride about these other films.

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But like, I also wanted to ask
him about Malik because he was

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kind of in that world a little
bit.

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So I did all this stuff, you
know, but I wasn't like, you

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know, I wasn't a writer who had
the pull to get big pieces in.

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So, you know, all that work
wound up being like a little

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chart in the corner of a page of
New York Magazine.

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And then also cinema.
I was redoing stuff for cinema

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editor.
So I actually then went and

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talked to a lot of the editors
for the film and did this piece

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for Cinema Editor, which was not
a, it was a, it's the, I don't

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know if it's even still around,
but it's the publication of the

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American Cinema Editors
Organization.

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And that was not available
online.

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That was actually just a print
magazine, but I got permission

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from them to, you know, put that
text up on my own, like personal

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blog.
So part of it is that a lot of

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stuff about Tree of Life is kind
of stuck inside me.

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I mean, over the years I've
written about it in other

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circumstances, but but I feel
still like like I didn't get the

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chance to like do the big tree
of life piece back in the day,

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even though I've written about
it for a vulture in places ever

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since.
So yeah, it's kind of a like

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it's just kind of an ongoing
thing.

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But also it's it's a film that,
you know, it's a film that

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merits constantly thinking
about, much like another one of

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my favorite films, Barry Lyndon.
Like it's a film that you can

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kind of grow up with.
I mean, I don't, I haven't had

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to grow up with Tree of Life
because it came out, you know,

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2011.
I was, you know, I was a grown

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ass man when it came out.
But like Barry Lyndon, for

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example, is a film I first saw
when I was like a freshman in

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college, right.
And, and every time I come back

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to it, there's a different part
of that film that I find myself

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really connecting to as I get
older, which is one of the

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magical things about that movie.
Tree of Life is kind of the same

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way.
Like every time I revisit it,

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there's some other part of it
that I really, really gravitate

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towards.
But also, it's just that, you

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know, I mean, I remember the
first time I saw the Tree of

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Life and it was, you know, it
was, I mean, it was still to

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this day, maybe the most
incredible cinematic experience

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I've ever had.
If there's two movies I wish I

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could see in theaters on
release, it's Tree of Life and

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Mad Max Fury Rd.
Basically see Mad Max Fury Rd.

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on on.
Basically the same movie, but

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those would be the two.
I mean, they're, they're good

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ones to see on a big screen.
I'm happy to say I've seen both

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multiple times on the big
screen.

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But but yeah, no, I, I totally
know what you mean.

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When I saw Tree of Life, it was
actually at a press screening.

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It was premiering at Cannes, but
they actually did have a New

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York press screening during the
day.

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I obviously had been, you know,
obsessed with this movie for

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years.
So I like went to the 11 AM

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press screening.
It was at.

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The You were camped out
cosplaying as Terrence Malick.

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Well it was funny because if
there was like 4 people in the

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theater, like it was an 11 AM
screening or something 10 AM

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something like that, it was at
the AMC 68.

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If I.
Remember was looking around like

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are are you guys so pumped for
this?

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Everybody is.
Like huge room, huge room.

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I was like 1 of literally like 5
people in there.

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But when and I, I told people
this at the time when, during

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the the creation sequence,
right?

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I mean, before the Earth
emerges, when Speaking of

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Preisner's Lakrimosa is playing,
I had what I believe is an

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episode of Stendhal Syndrome.
Are you guys familiar with this?

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It's the only reason I know
about the Stendhal Syndrome is

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because Dario Argento made a
movie called The Stendhal

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Syndrome and used it as like a
kind of a horror movie conceit.

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But it's a thing where and I
guess it, it affected people

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like in the 19th century, in
18th century a lot.

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But like in the presence of
certain works of art, you

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actually like, have like a
nervous breakdown, like like

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you're.
Like.

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Like, like you actually have
what most people would call like

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a panic attack.
Like you, your, you, you.

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Your breathing gets shallow,
your heart starts racing, and

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you actually feel like you're
about to die.

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It's like Bob at the end of
Coco, Yeah.

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I, well, I, I imagine, I imagine
this is a thing that happened.

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I mean, probably happens less
now.

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It's actually kind of sad it
doesn't happen as much anymore,

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probably to people because we're
just constantly inundated with

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reproductions of art and we're
just, you know, like, but like

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back in the day when people had
to travel like days to see a

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painting or a cathedral or, you
know, or, or let alone like the

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Mona Lisa or something.
And they spent most of their

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normal days like herding sheep.
Or any cheaper or whatever.

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Like, I mean, it's just, you
know, whatever.

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Like, you know, but but like,
you go and you travel and you,

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you won't, you find yourself
somewhere and suddenly you're

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faced with like a painting by
Michelangelo and you lose your

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mind, you know, And that's what
happened to me during that

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sequence.
I was like, what the fuck is

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happening to me?
Do I have to leave the theater?

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Like I was actually freaking out
and I was like, oh, no, no, no,

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this is awesome.
Like what, what it what just

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happened is awesome.
It's, it's, it was very scary,

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but it was awesome, you know?
Well and true true to the word

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awe some like awe inspiring so
awesome that it's overwhelming.

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I, I, I love the religious
bents.

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We're kind of moving towards, of
like movies can be a religious

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experience.
And I, I mean, Bill guy I've

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had, I've recently come into a
place where like there's certain

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times where I'm listening to
like my kids are running around

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00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,920
the table and we're listening to
the 1812 overture and the

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00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,320
cannons start blasting and the
church bells are going and I'm

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running around the table with my
kids and all of a sudden I just

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start crying.
And I'm like, I like, I just

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can't imagine a more beautiful
thing than what I'm experiencing

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with my children right now
paired with this magnificent

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piece of art.
So I, I, I don't know if that's

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00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,200
the same thing, but I'm with
you.

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Absolutely.
And, and I feel like, you know,

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as I say this as someone who is
not religious is like, I mean,

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I'm, I'm, I'm a total atheist,
like raised by atheists, like

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religion has never come into
play for me.

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So in my mind, this is a, like,
this is the only religious

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experience, you know, like I
don't have a religious

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experience in church.
I mean, I, I've been to churches

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00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:49,960
like I've been to, you know, I
love churches and I've been to

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churches for people's events and
weddings and, you know,

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00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,560
whatever.
But, but the only kind of

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religious experience I have is
the things where you say it was

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00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:01,280
like a religious experience.
I'm like, oh, that, that is a

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religious experience for me.
Yeah, yeah.

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00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,080
It makes you rethink using the
the phrase like transcendent

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00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:11,280
flippantly, like I I touched
something that was beyond myself

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00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:13,040
in this, the experience of this
thing.

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00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,800
And just for the record, you
know, that's that is how I feel

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00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,520
about Joe Dirt.
So I just want to get that out

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00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:19,760
there.
You know.

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00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,000
You know guys.
Different definition of touched

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00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,640
something but.
True, true.

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00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:28,520
I think that it is.
Unknowable.

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00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,480
I think it's time for us to get
into our first segment of the

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00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,440
day, which is called Brad
Explains.

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00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,800
Brad's gonna give us the movie
plot with only 60 seconds

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00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,640
ticking on the clock.
So let's go ahead and do your

258
00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:46,400
take with this little segment
that we call Brad Explains.

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00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,360
Brad Explains is the part of the
show where Brad breaks down the

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00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,280
plot of the film that he has
just seen often for the first

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00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,240
time.
This is obviously not Brad's

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00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:55,800
first time with The Tree of
Life.

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00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,440
Brad, have you checked it out in
the interim between seasons 1

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00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,680
and 10?
I've held off.

265
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,160
I have like tried to get a few
friends to watch it with me.

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00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:08,800
It always kind of falls through
when I explain what the movie is

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00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,680
and so it it's just never quite
come around.

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00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:16,080
It's always been on like the tip
of my mind though of like that's

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00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,800
a movie I want to come back to
and experience and enjoy again.

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00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,200
Not something I've returned to
until two nights ago.

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00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,600
Wow, this is special.
I'm actually, I've been looking

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00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,000
forward to Brad explains maybe
more than any other part of

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00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,920
today's episode because, you
know, Bill got Brad and I are

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00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:33,760
both from a religious
background.

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00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,480
We actually are both seminary
grads who have worked as pastors

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00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,120
at some point.
So like we bring an explicitly

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00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,480
Christian lens to a lot of what
we watch.

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00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:47,280
And I think that like, you know,
I was in college when this movie

279
00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,120
came out.
I was a a theology undergrad

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00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,560
and, you know, this movie hits
me and I think it came out the

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00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:58,160
year before Life of Pi Brad.
And I remember thinking, even at

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00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:02,600
the time, you know, I don't
necessarily think that you can

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00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:06,560
just copy paste these directly
onto a Christian, you know,

284
00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:11,640
screed or worldview or whatever.
But I couldn't believe how

285
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:16,720
seriously these films were
taking questions of faith in a

286
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,880
way that I had really only seen
to that point in like European

287
00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,520
cinema.
Like if some if some religious,

288
00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,040
something religious happened in
an American movie, especially in

289
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:31,800
the late nineties, 2000s, it was
usually portrayed as a negative

290
00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,080
or it was something like Paul
Dano's character in There Will

291
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,800
be Blood or, you know, Robert
Duvall in The Apostle or

292
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,600
something like that.
And so to wrestle with these

293
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,440
really deep philosophical
questions, this movie

294
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,080
immediately like shot up my
list.

295
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:52,240
And I remember even at the time
seeing like atheist readings of

296
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,320
the Tree of life and thinking to
myself, like, this is the most

297
00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:57,240
explicitly Christian movie I've
ever seen.

298
00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,440
I don't know how you could have
an atheist reading of this

299
00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:01,440
movie.
And I think what I've been so

300
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,920
blown away by is that each time
I return to it, yes, for me,

301
00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:09,040
because of my lens and my world
view, Like I, I see this as a

302
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:13,160
movie that is very nakedly
referencing and, and talking

303
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,440
about the Bible and the
Christian God.

304
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,640
But I see every other
interpretation of it within this

305
00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:23,119
movie as well.
Like, I see this as Terrence

306
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,640
Malick as a transcendentalist, I
can see this as a movie about

307
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:28,760
just childhood.
And this is a movie about

308
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:30,520
parenthood.
And I think there's so many

309
00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:34,040
different lenses that you can
read this through as the primary

310
00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,360
lens.
And I think that for me is what

311
00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:39,600
makes it a great work of art.
And I say all that to say,

312
00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,400
that's why I'm looking forward
to Brad explains today, because

313
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,120
I'm, I'm looking forward to
seeing how your views on this

314
00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:49,440
movie have shifted with another,
you know, six years of life

315
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,120
experience under your belt here,
Brad.

316
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,080
Yeah, man, you have put the
pressure on Bob.

317
00:17:55,600 --> 00:18:01,560
I will see see what I can do to
live up to these expectations.

318
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:05,000
One minute on the clock to
explain the plot of this film,

319
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,800
which spans at least 4 billion
years.

320
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:11,640
So, Brad, how about it, man?
One minute and go.

321
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,920
You're not a young earther, Bob.
4 billion years.

322
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,800
Huh, that's true.
I meant 6000.

323
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:23,560
Right there you go, 6000 years.
Oh man, Ken Ham is going to have

324
00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:28,960
his way with you.
The Tree of Life is a film that

325
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,520
follows a family.
I believe it's the O'Brien

326
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,160
family, which I've learned
because I read Bill Gaz's

327
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:41,080
articles and that is a helpful
piece to start by saying that

328
00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:47,520
this is a film that follows them
in a memory format, that we see

329
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:52,240
the film as if it is the memory
of Sean Penn, the older

330
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,600
character, remembering his
childhood.

331
00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,960
Part of it is things that he can
barely remember, and it moves by

332
00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:03,040
quickly.
Part of it lingers, especially

333
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:07,280
as he gets older, into his young
teenage years, but it follows

334
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:14,240
him wrestle with these ideas of
grace and law and discipline and

335
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:19,000
love and try to work out what it
means to be a human being in

336
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:25,880
light of this vast universe of
chaos and rigidity and, and

337
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:28,080
figure out what it means to be a
human.

338
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:34,480
And I, I think that it is an
incredibly personal film that

339
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:41,000
feels so warm to me.
And that's my brain explains,

340
00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:43,280
'cause there's not a, there's
not a plot, guys.

341
00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,920
I I mean there, there is and
there is, there is that's it's

342
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,640
another thing that is so
interesting about this film is

343
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,840
like I, I took notes and I'm,
you know, you got to forgive me.

344
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,960
I'm jumping all over the place
in these notes here, but like, I

345
00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,920
think there's two kind of paths
that the story takes in terms of

346
00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:02,960
how it frames itself.
And the the most obvious one

347
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,560
here is that the film is kind of
bookended by these grand sort of

348
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:11,120
cosmic visions and, you know,
explanations of the origins of

349
00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:15,000
the universe.
And I think that framing this

350
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:19,280
small domestic story in the
context of this cosmic, you

351
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:23,120
know, drama that's happening is
really what Malik is getting at

352
00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:24,600
here.
And so I think I'd like to start

353
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,640
by talking about.
The sort of grand cosmic saga

354
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,800
that we're presented with here,
because the movie starts out in

355
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,000
its opening moments as sort of a
meditation on grief.

356
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,200
You find out at a time period
which looks like the early

357
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:43,320
1960s, that Brad Pitt and
Jessica Chastain's son has been

358
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,040
apparently killed.
I would say killed in action,

359
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,000
right?
That's the what I got from that.

360
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,960
Maybe in the Korean War or some
early skirmish.

361
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,800
It looked like a was.
Was it a military delivery of a

362
00:20:53,800 --> 00:21:00,480
letter Brad that he got?
I feel like she 'cause he's at

363
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,600
the airport on the pay phone
when Brad Pitt, when he gets the

364
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:09,880
call, I to me, it felt like a
younger child passed away.

365
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,440
And I think that's the well
he's. 19 I think, right.

366
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:18,160
He's 19.
It's actually, I mean, it it it

367
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,400
in the real life in the Malek
family, it was a suicide.

368
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,800
Yeah.
And and this is hinted, they

369
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:31,760
don't say it in the film.
So, but it's hinted at because,

370
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,680
you know, Brad Pitt's like early
on when he's kind of thinking

371
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:41,800
about, you know, thinking back
on on his son, he talks about

372
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:46,160
how he used to like hit himself
when he would criticize him,

373
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:48,160
turning the pages too fast and
stuff.

374
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:53,080
So there are these little hints
at like, was there some inner

375
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,920
shame or fear or, or self
loathing?

376
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,320
Like there is speculation, but,
you know, it's all very

377
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,080
glancing.
And I don't think it's meant to

378
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:04,040
be, you know, I mean, that's
sort of what it was in their

379
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,280
family.
And I think Malik has brought a

380
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,720
lot of his own, his own life
into the film.

381
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,040
But I think he keeps it open for
a reason because it does.

382
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:18,440
Does it really matter?
I mean, it's, you know, so,

383
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,160
yeah.
But yes, that was that was the

384
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,320
that was the thing, I think.
I think the the guy in the

385
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,480
uniform is just like a mailman
or whoever would have delivered.

386
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,200
Got it.
OK, alright, that makes.

387
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,360
Sense And, and that's why he's
not there, because he was, I

388
00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:33,640
mean, the, the, the story is he,
he was a very talented musician,

389
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,480
a very talented guitarist, I
believe.

390
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:42,560
And he had travelled to Spain to
work with Andrés Segovia.

391
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:49,480
And, and I think, you know, he
was just really, I mean, who

392
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,760
knows, but like very neurotic,
hard on himself.

393
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:54,880
There was apparently there was
even a thing where he had maybe

394
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,320
like broken his fingers because
he didn't think that he had, you

395
00:22:58,320 --> 00:22:59,840
know, that, that he was getting
it.

396
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,240
And I guess I, I guess he, I
guess he died, you know, while

397
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,920
he was away somewhere.
So yeah, it's a very sad.

398
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,840
Story, yeah, that for sure.
And I think it, it deepens even,

399
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,400
you know, once you know that
context, the, the level of grief

400
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,600
that they're processing at the
beginning of the film.

401
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,000
And it starts with a quote from
the book of Job, which is

402
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,440
essentially, you know, like,
where were you when I, when I

403
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,760
hung the heavens and the earth
in their place?

404
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:30,640
And then it launches into this
small domestic story about

405
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,760
processing grief.
And, you know, if it's your

406
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,360
first time seeing this film,
you're not expecting the

407
00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:39,360
sequence that is to follow that.
Like, it's about, you know, 1520

408
00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:43,440
minutes of a kind of a montage
of watching this family go

409
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:48,320
through the loss of a child and
asking these questions of God or

410
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,880
the universe or what have you.
Like, why is this happening?

411
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,760
Where have you been?
What have I done to bring this

412
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,720
on?
Have I neglected you somehow?

413
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,880
Did I neglect my son?
And then you get this sort of

414
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,200
big cosmic response, which I
think is an immediate call back

415
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:07,720
to that verse in Job.
And Malik launches you not just

416
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:12,920
into this sort of, you know,
response of scale of, like, look

417
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,080
at the universe and how small we
are in it.

418
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:20,480
But what I think is really the
key to getting at the movie is

419
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,880
that he walks you through the
entire narrative of the way that

420
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,960
these two responses to life, the
way of nature and the way of

421
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:33,760
grace have been woven into the
earth from its foundation.

422
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:40,560
Like you get this incredibly
janky CGI dinosaur sequence, but

423
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,440
it's a sequence that, you know,
on its face, you're kind of

424
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,480
like, why was that there?
You know, it's it's like this

425
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,920
Velociraptor or something that
finds a wounded dinosaur on the

426
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,720
side of a riverbank and
overpowers it and puts its foot

427
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,400
right on its head and is clearly
in a position to kill this

428
00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:02,000
smaller creature looks at it and
feels some dinosaur sense of

429
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,320
pity and then has grace upon it
and walks away.

430
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,520
And I think that, you know, you
start to see that what Malik is

431
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,960
doing is not necessarily just
this book of Job, like, hey, I'm

432
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,880
God and I am bigger than you.
And you don't know what what

433
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,040
you're talking about.
It's it's a response that is

434
00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:25,080
yes, it's about scale, but it's
also about you small family in

435
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:29,200
Texas living your small domestic
life are actually part of this

436
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:34,600
story that is playing out on a
grand cosmic stage throughout

437
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,640
the history of the Earth.
And I think to be able to

438
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:42,280
communicate that nearly
wordlessly across what is

439
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:47,400
essentially a 40 minute montage
is one of the the biggest and

440
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,400
most impressive feats of
filmmaking I've ever seen, guys.

441
00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:55,080
I'm I'm with you 100% man.
I, I remember specifically

442
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:59,760
saying the first time we
reviewed it, like I understand

443
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,200
that the 1st 40 minutes is
montage and it's when he's young

444
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,560
and you're not.
It's meant to be fast-paced.

445
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,720
But for me it like when the
movie slowed down a little bit

446
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:10,200
is where I really start to enjoy
it.

447
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,000
Now I'm like, I just enjoyed the
entire thing.

448
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:18,960
I Bob, I'm with you.
That first 40 minutes is so

449
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,800
freaking brilliant of his
ability to communicate all of

450
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,440
this.
Like you said, 4 billion plus

451
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:31,600
years of the existence of of
existence and to communicate

452
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:37,360
that in the terms of the biggest
life questions that humans ask

453
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,960
like why do bad things happen to
me?

454
00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:43,960
Do my actions even have an
effect on the world around me?

455
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,600
Do I have purpose and meaning?
Am I safe in the world?

456
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,080
He communicates all of that
stuff through snippets of

457
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,400
dialogue through 1 sided
conversations on the phone.

458
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,560
And then I called it the first
time.

459
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,120
The National Geographic sequence
of the creation of the universe.

460
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,960
Bilga I'd like to hear your
interpretation of it, though,

461
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,920
you know, because it, it's
pretty rare these days that you

462
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,320
get a film that starts off with
a quote from the Bible like

463
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:13,440
that.
You know, I've, there's

464
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,720
obviously been a few, I think
Scorsese's Silence does as well.

465
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,160
And that's another movie that
takes questions of faith and

466
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,280
doubt very seriously.
But waging be ends with a kind.

467
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,760
That's true, yeah.
When you see the kind of

468
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:31,320
narrative that Malik is trying
to structure in what seems like

469
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,560
a pretty formless first part of
that film, like what?

470
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,720
What are your what are your
reads on that?

471
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:38,040
What are your interpretations
there?

472
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,880
I have a lot of interpretations.
I want to talk about the

473
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:50,800
dinosaur scene briefly.
I I love the dinosaur scene and

474
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,240
that it doesn't seem as it
doesn't seem that janky to me.

475
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,840
Although watching it again last
night, I was, I mean, I can sort

476
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:58,680
of see the scenes.
I mean, the problem with CGI is

477
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,120
it looks so great the first time
you see it 20 years later.

478
00:28:02,120 --> 00:28:08,320
It looks so nodgy.
But but that scene, I can't

479
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:14,760
shake that scene because and I
have no idea.

480
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,040
I mean, I, I've talked to a lot
of people who've worked with

481
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:18,080
Malik.
I've talked to a lot of people

482
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:19,600
who worked on this film.
I talked to a lot of people

483
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:24,440
who've, you know, who know Malik
never asked any of them this.

484
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,000
And I don't know that they would
even know.

485
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:33,880
But I see that as you know, we
have watched, obviously we have

486
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:35,280
watched the creation of the
universe.

487
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,240
We've watched the creation of
the earth.

488
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:44,440
We've watched all these things,
and I can't help but think that

489
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:50,320
that scene, the dinosaur scene,
is his answer to the question,

490
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,560
what was the universe's first
act of mercy?

491
00:28:55,600 --> 00:29:01,720
You know, like what was the
first time that a sentient

492
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:06,400
creature showed mercy, you know,
and, and what you know, was it

493
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,800
like a human doing that?
And if so, when?

494
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,640
You know, like it's mercy exists
now.

495
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,720
So it started somewhere, like
the universe started, the earth

496
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,960
started the, the, the, the
continent started the organisms,

497
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,280
all this shit started.
So where did mercy start?

498
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,120
You know, and obviously you can
talk about, I mean, obviously

499
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:29,600
there are spiritual ideas around
it as well, but like, what was

500
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,680
the universe's first act of
mercy?

501
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,120
Maybe it was a dinosaur choosing
not to kill a wounded dinosaur.

502
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,800
I, I love that.
Like, I, that to me, like every

503
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,120
time I see that, I mean, I cry a
lot watching this movie, but I

504
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:47,440
definitely cry at the dinosaurs.
So that's, I just wanted to

505
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,560
touch on that.
The, the thing about the, the

506
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,200
narrative structure of the film
to me, and this is also because

507
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,640
of the, the, the reporting I did
about the film before I even saw

508
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,720
it and because I knew about this
project.

509
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,800
Q That had dribbled out, you
know, over the years because,

510
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,280
you know, Malik sold story,
which you're I'm sure familiar

511
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:10,240
with, is he makes Badlands, he
makes Days of Heaven.

512
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:15,440
Charlie Bludorn at Paramount
loves Days of Heaven so much

513
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,920
that he basically gives him
$1,000,000 and says whatever you

514
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,720
do next, I want you to make it
at Paramount.

515
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,480
It's kind of like a first look
deal, basically.

516
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,880
And Malik has this idea that he
is going to make a film that

517
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,280
kind of incorporates the life
and death of the universe into

518
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,280
it.
And he, you know, and this is

519
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,120
the era of like, I mean,
Kleaniskatsi is a little later,

520
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,040
but you know, this kind of
ambition is in the air with

521
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,720
other films as well.
But, you know, he's a guy who's,

522
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,000
you know, obviously has thought
long and hard about these

523
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,440
things.
And there's also this story that

524
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,280
like when he was a kid, there
was like a, a, like a newspaper

525
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,480
supplement or something like
that or some kind of book that

526
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,800
he had that was kind of very
much a picture book about the

527
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,960
creation of the universe.
And people said like, he

528
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,880
actually still had this thing.
So there was very much a kind of

529
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:15,560
National Geographic kind of, you
know, simplifying it in some way

530
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,200
while allowing it to exist in
all this kind of awesomeness.

531
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,520
So he starts this thing which
over the years is referred to as

532
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,320
Project Q.
At some point it was called

533
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,240
Casita.
But much of the time I guess it

534
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:29,520
just didn't even really have a
name.

535
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,840
And he gets a small group of
collaborators together.

536
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,640
He gets like an effects guy, he
gets a cinematographer, his his

537
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,680
brother is involved.
There's a producer like it's

538
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:45,040
really like a 5 or 6 Man Group
and you know, they just start

539
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:50,920
gathering footage, stuff, ideas,
you know, he sends people out to

540
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,000
go shoot an eclipse.
He sends people out to go shoot

541
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,760
a glacier, he sends people out
to go shoot lava.

542
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:58,040
I mean, just all sorts of
things.

543
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,400
He doesn't really know exactly
how it's all going to fit

544
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,480
together and he doesn't really
have a script.

545
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,840
He just has pages and pages of
just like very poetic

546
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,320
descriptions of like the
beginnings of the universe.

547
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,720
Just he's just, I mean, it's
very like, I don't think he was

548
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,440
ever a pothead, but it's very
much like you kind of can just

549
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,560
imagine the, the, the you know,
the, the smoke wafting from like

550
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,760
whatever trailer or, you know,
you know, back lot office

551
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,360
they're on.
But and like, you know, in the

552
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:27,640
studio, people are like, hey,
you know, are you going to give

553
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:29,280
us a script?
And he's like, here's 20 more

554
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,880
pages of like poetry, you know?
Yeah, poetry.

555
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,840
And like this is this is where
the ground comes from, you know.

556
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,960
And so this goes on for for a
while.

557
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:43,760
I think they, you know, this
goes on for like a couple of

558
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:48,320
years, I believe.
And eventually he kind of loses

559
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,200
interest.
A couple of things happened. 1

560
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,760
He has this idea, but he never
can figure out what the actual

561
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,880
narrative is going to be like.
Like this is supposed to be kind

562
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,480
of woven in with a with a
narrative of some sort.

563
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,080
Like it is going to be an actual
movie with a story at at some

564
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,000
point.
I mean, different people have

565
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:07,920
speculated and you know, things
have filtered out.

566
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,400
But at some point, apparently it
was going to be like a World War

567
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,040
One story.
At some point it was going to be

568
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,600
like like prehistoric cave
people, like a romance.

569
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:17,880
It was going to be a lot of
things.

570
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:24,560
He never quite figured it out.
And then he, you know, at some

571
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,800
point, he abandons the project.
I think it kind of winds down a

572
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:29,160
little bit.
But then he, you know, he goes

573
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:30,680
to France.
He falls in love.

574
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,400
He decides to move to France.
He gets married.

575
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,320
And he's just like, listen,
let's not worry about this thing

576
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:38,880
anymore.
I'm going to go over here now.

577
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:41,480
And I see here.
Yeah.

578
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,840
And the people who worked on the
film, a couple of them were just

579
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:49,360
like, I was like, really, really
sort of just heartbroken at it

580
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,240
because they were really excited
by this.

581
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,760
I mean, the thing they always
say was like, everyone who is

582
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,920
spent time with Malik says this.
He's like, they're like, he is

583
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:00,000
just like a really cool guy.
Like, he's just like the coolest

584
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,040
guy.
And you would love just hanging

585
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,000
out with him and talking to him
and working with him.

586
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,640
And, you know, they were all
really disappointed when the

587
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,239
thing just wound down.
And and then, you know, he's

588
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,760
gone for 20 years.
I mean, he's, you know, pops up

589
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,960
here and there does some work.
It's not like he's, he's not a

590
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,600
recluse really.
I mean, he has his reputation as

591
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:20,679
a recluse because he doesn't
like to be photographed and

592
00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:24,440
doesn't do publicity and stuff.
But, you know, the people that

593
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,560
know him know him.
You know, we lived in Austin

594
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,840
much of the time.
I know people who used to play

595
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,120
like, you know, pick up
basketball with him.

596
00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:36,960
You know, he was just a guy and.
Just in the local Y league.

597
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,159
Yeah, no, like literally no, he
wasn't, you know, he was, he was

598
00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:44,280
a, he was a high school.
He he's a high school football

599
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,040
star.
Like he was a real kind of real.

600
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,639
I mean, he's a brilliant guy,
but also a real jock.

601
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,960
So he is still, I mean, now I
don't, I mean, he's like in his

602
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:53,000
80s.
So I don't know what he does

603
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:57,000
now, but I I do like he was into
running, he was into basketball.

604
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:58,560
So he did all.
So what you're telling me is he

605
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,360
was the original Zac Efron from
High School Musical?

606
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:03,160
He did.
He could do it all.

607
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:09,600
There is a great, great story,
Paul Williams, who is who was

608
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,360
involved with Malik's early
films.

609
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:16,440
He was a director, producer in
the 70s, made a number of films

610
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,080
with like real stars and stuff.
But but the films were never

611
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:24,680
very big.
But he wrote a memoir.

612
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,760
Oh gosh, I wish I could
remember, but I, I read it a

613
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:28,600
couple years ago.
I posted this on Twitter, so you

614
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,880
might have seen it.
But there's a part of it where

615
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:36,440
he talks about going to going to
Cuba with Malik 'cause, you

616
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:40,160
know, Malik had written an
article about Che Guevara and

617
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,600
stuff, and at some point he was
going to make the the film that

618
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,840
became Soderbergh's Che was at
one point going to be a Terrence

619
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:50,240
Malik film.
But it's a story about playing

620
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:57,040
basketball with Terrence Malik,
Fidel Castro, and oh gosh, who

621
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:01,160
was the other person?
Hang on, I'm going to find it.

622
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,840
Sorry, sorry.
That is wild.

623
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,600
No, we we will vamp while we
look for the the Fidel caste

624
00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:12,520
'cause we have to finish the
story now, Brad.

625
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:17,080
Like there's no.
Yeah, it is OK Paul Williams,

626
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,400
Terrence Malick and Francis Ford
Coppola.

627
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,400
I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
read the section.

628
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:27,000
The next morning, the three on
three basketball game pits solid

629
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,480
Fidel and two buff Cuban
soldiers, all in fatigues

630
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,760
against Rotunda Terry, hefty
Francis and skinny me.

631
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,440
There are no other Cubans there.
Fidel needs no additional

632
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,760
security in this land where he
is so adored.

633
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,600
Castro fouls me hard as he
elbows his way into the post and

634
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,560
makes an easy layup.
We get we get the ball out on

635
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,280
the next play and I back him
into a deep post and give him a

636
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,560
hard elbow in the ribs.
Fidel says foul.

637
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,520
I say no, that's the same as you
did.

638
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,240
He says foul, foul, foul.
He takes the ball out of my

639
00:36:59,240 --> 00:37:00,920
hands, walks to the free throw
line.

640
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,160
He takes two shots on the next
play.

641
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,240
I am careful not to foul him,
but I guard him so tightly that

642
00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:09,160
he has to stop dribbling.
I quickly fall off him to help

643
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,920
my 2 chubby directors guard
their two Fleet Soldier

644
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,120
athletes.
Fidel can't find a passing lane.

645
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,360
Castro simply begins to dribble
the basketball again and head

646
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:19,800
straight in for another easy
layup.

647
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,120
I say hey hey, that's a double
dribble.

648
00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:25,120
Fidel looks at me.
I say that ain't basketball, you

649
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,440
can't do that, it's our ball.
Fidel holds the ball and looks

650
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:29,760
at me.
I look at him.

651
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,280
I see he is serious, he just
must win.

652
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:36,720
He says this is my country, I
can do whatever I want here and

653
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:39,600
laughs with a smile.
We laugh, too.

654
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,000
Some egos are so big they can
cradle a nation.

655
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,440
And he says before we fly away,
Huey says Cuba is still racist.

656
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,840
Black Cubans are victims of
discrimination by the lighter

657
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,320
skinned Cubans.
And he says he misses American

658
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,560
hamburgers.
And by the way, that Huey is

659
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:59,400
Huey Huey Long.
Oh, so I said not good long Huey

660
00:37:59,400 --> 00:37:59,960
Newton.
Sorry.

661
00:37:59,960 --> 00:38:03,960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But just.

662
00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:06,720
Like that's wild, man.
What a story.

663
00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:11,280
Anyway, sorry, total tangent.
Apologies, love that tangent.

664
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:16,840
Ridiculous tangent.
But so I mean, getting back to

665
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,560
the story, you know, Malik is
gone for 20 years, you know,

666
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:21,600
comes back playing.
Basketball with Fidel.

667
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,000
Yeah.
I mean, this is before that, but

668
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:25,360
I'm sure it's, I'm sure there
was a lot.

669
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,400
Of straight years, that's all he
did.

670
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,360
Yeah, he was probably playing
basketball with like George W

671
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,360
Bush or something, 'cause, you
know, being a, a Austin guy.

672
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:39,800
Yeah, but the so he comes back,
you know, he does Thin red Line,

673
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,960
the New World, and it really
does feel like he's back and

674
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,480
then.
But what's interesting to me is

675
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,760
you know, when I, you know,
when, when Tree of Life finally

676
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,120
came out, it was clear that it
was this, it was the Q project.

677
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:57,200
And I found it so touching that
after all these years of trying

678
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:01,440
to find the narrative that's
going to sort of make the whole

679
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:06,080
thing work, this most reclusive
and publicity shy of directors

680
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,760
was just like, I'm going to tell
my own family story.

681
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,880
Like, that's the story he found.
And how perfect is it?

682
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,120
Like, that's the thing.
It's it's just because in the

683
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:16,720
finished film, it feels so
organic.

684
00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:19,040
It doesn't to me feel like, oh,
why did he figure?

685
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,760
Why did he put this story here?
But it actually took him like

686
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,480
years and years before he
figured out that that's the

687
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:30,080
story he needed to tell.
I think it's beautiful and I

688
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,160
think it's a good segue into
what I had written down as sort

689
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:34,800
of the other way of framing this
film.

690
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:39,440
So you obviously have a a small
domestic story framed against or

691
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,880
I guess in in line with this
story of the cosmos.

692
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:48,200
But then you also have this
decision to ask huge universal

693
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:52,480
questions about humanity through
the eyes of a small boy.

694
00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:56,800
And so it essentially becomes
like the most important movie

695
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:01,320
ever made about puberty.
And I kind of watched most of

696
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,280
this movie through that lens
today, Brad, Because for some

697
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:08,760
reason I, I got so lost in the
other framing device of the film

698
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,160
the first few times I'd seen it
that I really neglected to look

699
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,720
at this as a coming of age
movie, or at least a movie that

700
00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:20,880
encapsulates a really.
Volatile time in a young boy's

701
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,600
life.
And I think the the extent to

702
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:27,760
which this is a movie about
puberty is worth talking about

703
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,360
because it's a super
interesting, I guess, way of

704
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,360
commenting on the whole human
race, right?

705
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,200
Like, you're going through
puberty, you're going through an

706
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,800
incredible amount of of hormonal
changes.

707
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,000
You're constantly beating
yourself up, you're constantly

708
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,880
questioning your own innate
goodness or vadnais.

709
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,800
You're measuring yourself
against how much of this is in

710
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,240
my blood versus what is a choice
that I can make you.

711
00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:55,680
You're doing things that you
don't want to do and you can't

712
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:59,280
explain why.
I think it's just an absolutely

713
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:04,240
perfect kind of metaphorical
encapsulation of the questions

714
00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:06,160
we all ask.
And putting it in the eyes of

715
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,920
like a 12 year old boy or
however old he's supposed to be

716
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,880
is like it is brilliant,
honestly.

717
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,240
Well, and for me it like it
almost takes it a further step

718
00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:17,400
back.
It's not through the eyes of a

719
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:21,320
12 year old boy.
It's through the eyes of a 52

720
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:25,280
year old man thinking about his
12 year old life.

721
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:31,000
And how often do we see people
later in life begin to look back

722
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,840
to make sense of what's coming
ahead.

723
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:38,400
And I, I, and that's not to say
that anything you said is wrong,

724
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,760
Bob, I, I agree.
This is a movie about the

725
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:46,720
importance of taking seriously
the inquisitiveness of children.

726
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:52,080
The there's a, there's a, a
mentor in my life that talks

727
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,840
that has this phrase where he's
like, there's no such thing as a

728
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,800
junior Holy Spirit, right?
And if we think of the Holy

729
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:01,000
Spirit as a mentor, a guide,
somebody that helps us in our

730
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:07,440
life, like we so often don't
take children seriously and we

731
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:13,720
have infantilized the teenage
years to it feels like we have

732
00:42:13,720 --> 00:42:17,480
prevented them from being
allowed to ask these really

733
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:21,760
important questions about
purpose and value and meaning

734
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,600
and, and what does it mean to be
good and bad?

735
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,480
And as I was watching it this
time through, I really was

736
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:31,720
reminded of East of Eden and the
the main characters of East of

737
00:42:31,720 --> 00:42:35,600
Eden, like struggling with like,
well, he's just Cain and I'm

738
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:39,080
Abel, or, you know, I'm Abel and
he's Cain and I'm evil and I

739
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,400
just am evil and I can't do
anything about it.

740
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:46,440
And there's so much of that that
we ought to take seriously as

741
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,760
adults.
And yet, if I'm being blunt, I

742
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,920
think so few of us have ever
truly, deeply wrestled with

743
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:58,200
these questions of what it means
to be a human and good and evil

744
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,400
and all these things that we
can't take it seriously when our

745
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:03,960
kids ask it then 'cause we don't
have answers ourselves.

746
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:08,680
And Malik Malik is like, his
whole movie is just thrust at

747
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:13,280
this heart of we are asking the
questions of the cosmos from the

748
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:17,800
time we are born, right?
All the way through the end of

749
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,320
his life, You know, as Sean Penn
seemingly is entering the

750
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:25,280
afterlife.
Yeah, and I think, Bilga, part

751
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:28,160
of the reason I bring this up is
because I I read a really good

752
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:32,280
blog post of yours from when the
film was released and you were

753
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:36,720
kind of musing on something that
you had done as a parent.

754
00:43:36,720 --> 00:43:39,640
You had you had said something
that startled your toddler and

755
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,280
and you walked away wondering
like, did I do the wrong thing?

756
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:44,400
Did you know I was trying to
protect my child?

757
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,000
But I've also scared my child in
the process.

758
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,040
And I think that there really is
a fine line between viewing this

759
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,120
movie through the lens of the
child and the imprint the

760
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,840
parents have on the child.
And also viewing the movie

761
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,800
through the lens of like this is
a very sympathetic movie

762
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,760
ultimately towards the parents
and their own need for for self

763
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,120
reconciliation and self
actualization.

764
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,200
I just love to hear what you
think a little bit about the the

765
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:15,600
puberty angle of the movie.
I mean, there's that there's

766
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:18,960
there's that line that always
sticks out for me in the film.

767
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:22,640
It's it's part of the voice over
from the boy when he says

768
00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:28,960
father, make me good, right?
And it's we don't know who he's

769
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:30,880
talking to.
Like, you know, like, I mean,

770
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,120
this is, I mean, this is a child
with a fraught relationship with

771
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,720
his father, but it could also be
father, you know, father a God,

772
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:44,080
but but like, or a priest, you
know, but this, this idea,

773
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:48,000
father make me good.
You know, he's, he's yearning to

774
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,080
be good and he's wrestling with
the fact that he isn't or that

775
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,080
he does petty things or that he
does cruel things.

776
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,520
It's like I'm trying to remember
when this this actually comes.

777
00:44:56,520 --> 00:45:00,240
I think really during those, I
think when we're actually

778
00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:02,960
watching Jessica Chastain in the
plane, I think it's right around

779
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,080
that point.
There's this little, the film is

780
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,320
full of little brilliant pieces
of montage.

781
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:10,440
And there's this, this little
montage there where she's in the

782
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:12,000
plane.
She's she's telling them the

783
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,520
story about this time that she
went up in the plane.

784
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:21,400
And then and then we see her
floating next to that tree.

785
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,440
There's that really kind of one
of the oddest, oddest shots.

786
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,120
In the movie, yeah.
Yep.

787
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:32,200
It's and it's all this little
montage of sort of like this,

788
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:34,920
this kind of questioning this
yearning.

789
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:36,960
I mean, the whole film is like
that, but it's all full of

790
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:43,120
little moments like that too.
The thing that I wanted to sort

791
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:49,640
of bring in was you guys have
seen Scorsese Silence, another

792
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:53,280
film about faith, and I find it
interesting.

793
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:58,680
Both films have such a
interesting relationship to the

794
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:04,120
question of of like where God is
or not or how does how do you

795
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:09,080
find God right?
I mean, silence is an incredible

796
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:12,200
movie as well.
And but like silence has such AI

797
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:16,280
mean it's almost like like it
turns the concept of where God

798
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,760
is into like a a third act
narrative twist almost right.

799
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,120
I mean, it's because it's like
all throughout the film, you

800
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:27,480
know, Andrew Garfield's priest
character is is confronted by

801
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:31,440
this this guy Kichijiro, who's,
you know, kind of a very

802
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,640
pathetic figure and keeps doing
the wrong things and keeps

803
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,680
betraying people.
I mean, just the really, really

804
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,760
broken character who keeps
wanting to the the priest to

805
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:43,600
hear his confession.
And the priest is always like,

806
00:46:43,720 --> 00:46:46,960
OK, well, you know, like, just
like wants to keep him at a

807
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,800
distance.
And this is a priest who at the

808
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:54,640
height of his own suffering,
sees, you know, sees his face

809
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:59,080
reflected in a pool of water and
then sees Jesus and thinks, Oh,

810
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:03,320
you know, like I have achieved,
like I have achieved not, not

811
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,080
godhood, but like, I, I have
become like I'm seeing God.

812
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:08,600
And he absolutely he's not.
It's that, that like, it's a

813
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,360
completely red herring in many
ways.

814
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,440
And then at the very end of the
film, because he's looking for

815
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:18,360
God, the, the whole movie, he
wants to, you know, he wants God

816
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,280
to hear him and to, to answer
him.

817
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,120
And at the end of the movie,
like towards the end of his

818
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:28,480
life, Chigiro comes and, and he
finally hears his confession And

819
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:30,000
suddenly he hears the voice of
God.

820
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:34,000
And like, that's where it is.
Like the idea that you find God

821
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:40,960
in the most base suffering,
pathetic, broken person.

822
00:47:42,720 --> 00:47:44,680
I find that just incredibly
moving.

823
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:49,160
And, and there is, and this film
has some of that too, not in

824
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:56,360
that sense, but in the sense
like you find God, the like the

825
00:47:56,360 --> 00:48:00,840
search for God is God, you know,
like the like the the yearning,

826
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:06,320
the searching, the grief, the
rage, the, the it's all kind of

827
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:08,840
it.
It like you're just like that's,

828
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,840
that's it.
Like that's, that's like, that's

829
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,760
and that's what's so impressive
about like that, the fact that

830
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:16,560
it's something can contain all
that.

831
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:21,240
And, and, you know, and I think
that's sort of maybe what the

832
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:25,800
what the Sean Penn character is
sort of working his way towards,

833
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:29,640
you know. 100%, yeah.
And I, I think that that's kind

834
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:32,600
of echoed too, in the way
there's a moment kind of early

835
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:38,240
on in the movie where you see
our main character like praying

836
00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:41,080
at his bedside.
And it's interspersed with

837
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,800
narrative of him asking these
big questions of God.

838
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,600
But when it's, when he's
actually vocalizing out loud,

839
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:48,800
like what his prayers are,
they're just these tiny little

840
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:51,960
like, help me not, you know,
kick the neighbor's dog and help

841
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:53,800
me not get mad.
And it's the kind of things a

842
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,040
kid says.
And it makes you wonder as a

843
00:48:56,040 --> 00:49:01,080
viewer, like, is it just that he
can't articulate the real

844
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:04,040
questions that he has?
And So what we've been hearing

845
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:08,040
in in voice over, are these
actually people even asking

846
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:11,360
these things of God or are these
kind of subconscious questions

847
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,760
that even they can't can't
vocalize And and that's.

848
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:18,200
The yearnings of their heart.
Yeah, 100%.

849
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:19,760
I think it's just a really
beautiful.

850
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:24,920
And again, it it tips into this
sort of mystery of the film that

851
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:26,960
it's it's so hard to achieve,
Brad.

852
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:31,800
It's so hard as an artist, like,
to not just come out and say

853
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:35,960
what you want to say and at the
same time to not be so, like,

854
00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:39,080
obscured that no one knows what
you're trying to say.

855
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:42,000
But the fact that, like, we can
sit down right now and have a

856
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:46,240
conversation about like, atheist
readings of this film versus

857
00:49:46,240 --> 00:49:49,360
Christian readings of this film.
And like both of those are not

858
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:53,040
just extremely valid
interpretations of the film, but

859
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:58,080
I think there are intentional
things strewn about the film

860
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:02,320
from both perspectives that
ultimately speak to the same

861
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:05,480
core principle.
And I think before we go to

862
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,360
break guys, I want to talk a
little bit more about the way

863
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:12,120
Malik communicates that because,
you know, the idea of like a

864
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:15,400
movie being a tone poem or
something is is so overused.

865
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,640
But I think with Malik, like
there really is no other way to

866
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:23,240
talk about his use of the
language of cinema than poetic.

867
00:50:23,240 --> 00:50:25,760
It really is.
It's it's impressionistic.

868
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:30,000
It's it's like a 2 1/2 hour
montage, But that's underselling

869
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:31,640
it.
I don't know if vignette is even

870
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:35,320
the right word for what you
would use, but it made me think

871
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:37,160
of Brad.
This is the nerdiest thing I'm

872
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:41,200
gonna say all day.
When I first, when I first

873
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:44,200
started getting obsessed with
like classic movies, I bought

874
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:48,360
the DVD of Casablanca, which I,
I believe Warner's released that

875
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:52,520
great two disc DVD in like O 4.
And I watched the hell out of

876
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:56,840
that thing and Roger Ebert
recorded a commentary for

877
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:59,440
Casablanca.
And I watched the entire movie

878
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:03,360
of Casablanca just listening to
Ebert's voice over on there.

879
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:07,960
And they get to the point where
after Rick kicks Elsa out, you

880
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:10,440
know, and is super mean to her,
and then it goes into the

881
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:13,400
memories of them in Paris and
you finally get the flashbacks

882
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:15,960
to what happened.
There's a there's a rear

883
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,680
projection shot of them driving
in the countryside.

884
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:22,800
And then it fades to the city of
Paris or wherever they are.

885
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,200
And it's the cheesiest rear
projection shot.

886
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:29,720
And Ebert comments on how people
have kind of ridiculed that shot

887
00:51:29,720 --> 00:51:32,760
over the years.
And he starts defending it.

888
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:36,360
And it was so eloquent because
it was so simple.

889
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:40,600
But he just said that's the way
memory works when we remember

890
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:42,080
things.
That's the way memory works.

891
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:45,640
And I think that you really hit
the nail on the head here in

892
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:50,520
that this is a movie, that it it
defies traditional narrative

893
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:55,560
structures or even strictures
because it is so entirely

894
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:59,240
reliant on the way human memory
fills those gaps in.

895
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,280
You can piece together the
narrative without him having to

896
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,320
hold your hand through it,
because we as people know

897
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,120
exactly what it's like to just
remember small snippets of

898
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:10,520
things that were super impactful
for us.

899
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:15,360
Well, and, and human memory is
wholly reliant on the emotions

900
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:18,840
that fueled those important
moments of our lives.

901
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:23,840
And the, and that is the beauty
of this film is that whether he

902
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:29,640
is explaining the origin and
demise of the cosmos at large,

903
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:35,280
or he's talking about that
moment where dad's gone and, and

904
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,000
he's this, this disciplinarian
that we don't love.

905
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:42,440
And now we get to have like a 10
minute montage of them truly

906
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:46,120
enjoying life.
And like, tell me that that

907
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,920
montage is not the most picture
perfect.

908
00:52:50,240 --> 00:52:54,480
This is what I want my children
to remember Summer like.

909
00:52:55,560 --> 00:53:00,360
Like that is the most perfect
representation of the emotions

910
00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:03,840
of summertime as a 8 to 12 year
old.

911
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:07,760
At least what we all want our
own life and our children's life

912
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:11,960
to be.
The way he captures the emotion

913
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,760
of your dad trying to teach you
something and you're just not

914
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,520
quite getting it.
And you can feel his shame and

915
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:22,840
disappointment in you and you
feel your soul shrinking at the

916
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:26,080
idea that you're not good enough
for the man who brought you into

917
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:30,120
the world.
I like how he's able to capture

918
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:34,680
that, the emotionality of that
with just bare bones minimum

919
00:53:34,720 --> 00:53:41,800
story.
I, It's, it's truly incredible.

920
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,880
I man, well.
Before Bilga jumps in, I, I want

921
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:48,200
to piss you off a little bit
because there, there was this

922
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:50,760
one moment.
It's the moment where, you know,

923
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,120
the, the music starts to turn a
little sinister.

924
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:56,280
And it's as, you know, our
protagonist starts to make poor

925
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:59,760
decisions and we start to see
him, you know, really ethically

926
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,320
dabble in some things he
shouldn't be doing as a young

927
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:04,240
man.
And they're busting out the

928
00:54:04,240 --> 00:54:06,000
windows.
And then they're like, let's put

929
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,800
a frog under this rocket.
And it, it gets more and more

930
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:10,600
destructive.
And it reminds.

931
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:14,680
Sid from Toy Story.
Yeah, it reminded me of the

932
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:18,320
sequence in Eternal Sunshine,
which I know is a movie that you

933
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:21,040
absolutely hate.
But it's when they go back to

934
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:23,440
Joel's, like, deep, deep
childhood.

935
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:28,000
And he's remembering this time
where they had like, they have

936
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:31,120
him in like a little kids outfit
and they're like you, they're

937
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:32,920
surrounding him with a hammer.
And they're like, you have to

938
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,760
hit this bird in a wagon and
kill it.

939
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:41,560
And you see grown up Jim Carrey
do it and then like, breakdown

940
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:43,480
in tears because he still is a
grown man.

941
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:46,480
Like feels so much guilt and
shame about this core memory

942
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:49,000
from his childhood.
I I don't know why I thought of

943
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:53,840
that in the moment, but I think
that moment multiplied by 100 is

944
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,400
kind of the effect that the tree
of life has on me.

945
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:00,920
I mean, I'll, I'll jump into a
way opposite end of things as

946
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:04,080
far as you you fancy film
people.

947
00:55:05,240 --> 00:55:10,520
The kid with Bruce Willis.
And yeah, you know what I'm

948
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:13,240
talking about.
Excuse me, Disney's the kid is.

949
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:15,360
Disney's the right title is that
movie.

950
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,360
You are right.
That is the official title.

951
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,720
Disney's The kid has that right.
The whole movie is around.

952
00:55:20,720 --> 00:55:25,000
Like why is this?
Why am I here in the present 12

953
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:27,080
year old me?
Why is he here in my present and

954
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:29,320
annoying me?
And Bruce Willis is great at

955
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:32,000
being annoyed.
And he's trying to help him

956
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,400
figure out, like, what's this
thing in my past I need to

957
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:36,480
change?
Where did I get this tick that,

958
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:39,520
you know?
And he thinks it's, oh, I got

959
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:42,320
beat up trying to defend this
dog in the schoolyard.

960
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:46,800
And then they get back to the
house after, you know, he got in

961
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:48,920
trouble for getting in a fight
at school.

962
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:53,400
And his mom has cancer.
And his dad grabs him by the

963
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:57,960
shoulders and just screams at
him, like, what are you doing?

964
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:03,440
You're killing her.
And it's that moment of just

965
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:08,400
pure shame and guilt.
And he realizes this is the

966
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:12,160
moment that my whole life
trajectory changed.

967
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:17,480
And I think that you see that
captured here in Tree of Life

968
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:22,440
of, you know, Sean Penn
reflecting like, where did where

969
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:25,960
did my life change?
Where were the moments that I

970
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:29,680
set myself on a course I
couldn't pull myself back from?

971
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:34,480
And I love the the tension
between law and grace that he

972
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:37,360
holds the whole time.
Because at the end of the film,

973
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:40,840
you see that both of them have a
role to play in his life.

974
00:56:41,240 --> 00:56:43,160
And I think the first time I
watched the film, I, I

975
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:47,360
definitely was on a like anti
Brad Pitt, like he's just a bad

976
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:50,080
dad.
I think this time through you

977
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:53,520
see a lot.
I saw a lot more grace for him

978
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,760
as he got older.
And I actually, I need you guys

979
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:59,600
to answer a question for me
'cause I, I realized this as you

980
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:04,040
were talking about Terrence's
personal life.

981
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:09,520
So at the start of the film, we
have the letter and the phone

982
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:14,600
call and the brother has killed
himself, died somehow overseas.

983
00:57:15,720 --> 00:57:19,720
Do we think that that's the
brother with like, blonde hair,

984
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:22,120
his younger brother?
And that's like, yeah, that was

985
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:25,440
head.
That that's the younger brother.

986
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:27,720
Yeah, because you, they're also
in a new house at that point

987
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:29,160
too.
You can see that they're in a in

988
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:32,040
a different space.
And I, I would imagine it's

989
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:34,240
probably, what about a 10 year
jump into the future?

990
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:37,280
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it is, it is the younger

991
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:38,720
brother.
And I know it's, I mean the

992
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,680
youngest brother who had killed
himself.

993
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:45,680
And that is, you know, it's very
amorphous, but that's the

994
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:48,360
indication that it was him.
Now, of course, by this point, I

995
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:53,160
believe the the other brother
had also died much later, years

996
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:57,120
later.
But so in in many ways, this is

997
00:57:57,120 --> 00:58:00,440
Terrence Malick remembering both
his brothers, but it's

998
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:04,400
specifically this family trauma
was one that really, really

999
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:09,400
resonated obviously, and, and,
you know, one that really kind

1000
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:13,400
of affected all their, you know,
relationships and, and, and

1001
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:18,880
lives afterwards.
Brad, the short answer is yes,

1002
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:20,560
that was.
It's a jump ahead in time.

1003
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:25,360
I, I think that the reason I
asked that I, I did not pick up

1004
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:28,720
on that until now as we were
talking about it, to realize

1005
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:32,240
that that was actually set ahead
of where you go after that.

1006
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:37,000
The reason I say that is it, it
makes a lot more sense that Sean

1007
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:40,720
Penn is now looking back at the
death of his brother and

1008
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:44,480
reflecting on the years previous
to that to ask these questions

1009
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:49,880
of like, who am I?
Who have I been my entire life?

1010
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:54,560
Is this who I've always been?
For me, the moment that has

1011
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:58,280
stuck with me both times
watching the film most deeply is

1012
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:02,640
the moment where he holds his
brother's finger above the BB

1013
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:07,800
gun and shoots it.
For me, that is like the crux

1014
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:14,240
point of the film where he is,
is he going to choose law and

1015
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:19,880
nature And you just it's the
it's the survival of the fittest

1016
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:21,800
man.
Like if you can't take this and

1017
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:24,360
you can't take life.
And clearly his younger brother

1018
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:28,600
is a sensitive soul.
Or is he going to choose the way

1019
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:32,000
of grace and his mother?
And what I love about the film

1020
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:36,080
is that in the moment, he
chooses the path of nature, and

1021
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:40,840
yet he feels that human sense of
regret and empathy.

1022
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:43,160
And what if somebody shot me in
the finger?

1023
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:46,280
And eventually he finds his
brother and apologizes to him

1024
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:49,440
and tells him that he loves him.
And it sets him on a different

1025
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:54,440
path once he's experienced both
nature and grace.

1026
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:57,480
And I think that's such a
fascinating commentary on the

1027
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:02,880
human experience.
Well, I don't know if you

1028
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:07,800
noticed what's the music that's
playing during that sequence is.

1029
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:10,440
It's the Lacrimosa again on the
piano.

1030
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:14,640
Version of the Lacrimosa which
and I mean those are the kinds

1031
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:17,080
of things I think Malik actually
paid a lot of attention to

1032
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:22,600
because one of the things that
the people I spoke to said well

1033
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:25,000
even about the original Q
project was that he had become

1034
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:26,800
obsessed with the symphonic
form.

1035
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,480
I think I I wrote about this a
little bit, but you know, the

1036
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:34,560
way that music repeats in the
film, I mean, it has the film

1037
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:37,080
kind of has a symphonic
structure instead of just like a

1038
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:39,880
traditional narrative, you know,
three act structure.

1039
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:43,400
You know, you've got you've got
like your overture and you've

1040
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:45,280
got, I mean, you, you, you know,
there are all these little

1041
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:48,040
things that that coincide with
the way symphonies work.

1042
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:55,080
But but the way that music is
repeated, you know, sort of from

1043
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:58,240
the first half to the
second-half, I think is always

1044
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:01,560
kind of an interesting
indication of, of where his mind

1045
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:03,400
is and how he sees certain
scenes.

1046
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:07,760
But but yeah, I know that's a
beautiful, I mean, it's an

1047
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:10,440
absolutely beautiful scene.
And it is also like the kind of

1048
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:13,080
thing, I mean, look, I'm sure
this guy has done worse things

1049
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:14,400
in his life.
Like that's the thing.

1050
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:16,160
It's like you focus on these
little things.

1051
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:23,120
And also that that scene where
he that where he's, you know,

1052
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:28,400
literally just nice to that to
that boy who has the burn marks,

1053
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:32,960
you know, who who he had kind of
been like keeping his distance

1054
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:37,640
from earlier.
Like I'm sure he's done nicer

1055
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:40,800
things in his life, but like the
fact that he focuses on that,

1056
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:43,040
like, you know, I mean, it's
just beautiful.

1057
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:45,600
And it's like, that's absolutely
how we are as humans.

1058
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:50,280
That is absolutely how we are.
Like, this doesn't feel petty or

1059
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:52,720
minor or pointless or kind of
irrelevant.

1060
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:55,280
It's like literally he has
captured just something.

1061
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:59,480
So the fact that he captures
something so immense in this

1062
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:02,160
movie with its structure and
with like the opening and the,

1063
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:03,600
you know, the closing and all
that.

1064
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:07,440
And then in between, he finds
all these like moments that feel

1065
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:12,960
so true to human experience.
Like that's, this is like, you

1066
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:17,120
know, this is an extremely high
degree of difficulty movie that

1067
01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:18,400
he's working.
I mean, that's the thing.

1068
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:21,400
That's why whenever people like,
I mean, when The Tree of Life

1069
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:23,640
came out and for a few years
afterwards, you know, whenever

1070
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:26,480
people did lists of best movies
of the recent last 10 years,

1071
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:29,440
blah, blah, you know, it would
always show up like #1 #2 very

1072
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:31,720
high up.
And now recently, it's kind of

1073
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:35,840
like like the New York Times
lists of the 100 movies, you

1074
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:38,360
know, the best movies of the
last 25 years or whatever.

1075
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:42,040
It's like, I don't know, it's
like 87 or something.

1076
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:45,080
I'm just like, you know, too
low, man.

1077
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:49,240
Like, like that is too low.
Like just sit back for a second

1078
01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:53,600
and think back on what this
movie sets out to accomplish and

1079
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:58,080
what it actually accomplishes.
Like this is like, you know,

1080
01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:02,160
this is like all timer stuff,
you know, like it doesn't work.

1081
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:05,120
Like, if it doesn't, if it
doesn't, like if it doesn't

1082
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:06,800
work, you know, that's one
thing.

1083
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:11,360
But like, the fact that it
actually works at such a such an

1084
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:15,880
immense level of such an immense
scale of ambition, I think

1085
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:17,800
speaks to the achievement, you
know?

1086
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:20,200
Too.
Fascinating.

1087
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:22,560
We'll we'll break for whiskey
here in a second.

1088
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:26,760
Brad, like I, I want to talk
about that sequence because that

1089
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:29,040
kicks off.
So what Brad talked about with

1090
01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:32,560
the the BB gun or the pellet gun
or whatever it is, you know, is

1091
01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:35,520
kind of like the low point.
It's the, it's him bottoming

1092
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:36,960
out, it's The Dark Knight of the
soul.

1093
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:42,120
And then it immediately pivots
kind of into this what builds

1094
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:46,200
into this sort of like
phantasmagoric, like crescendo

1095
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:51,160
of reunification and forgiveness
and reconciliation.

1096
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:54,320
And you see it, you know, he, he
reconciles with his brother.

1097
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:56,400
He reconciles with the boy with
the burn marks.

1098
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:58,480
It's just as simple as a hand on
his shoulder.

1099
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:01,600
He reconciles with Brad Pitt and
they give Brad Pitt an

1100
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:04,160
incredible moment in in the
garden there.

1101
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:06,360
And we'll talk about
performances in the second-half.

1102
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:11,440
And then and then you kind of
just get like, what I love about

1103
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:13,560
it too, is that it doesn't end
there.

1104
01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:16,640
It could end there and get right
back into the cosmic stuff.

1105
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:20,400
But they then they have the
like, we're moving away bit

1106
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:24,760
where you see that like, yes,
Brad Pitt did have his sort of

1107
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:28,360
moment of grace.
And then as they're moving, he

1108
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:29,600
looks right back at his son
again.

1109
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:31,400
And he's just like, what are you
going to stand there like a bump

1110
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:35,680
on a log, put the suitcase in?
Like there is an element of he

1111
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:38,120
is a he is a man who is
struggling with his own nature.

1112
01:04:38,120 --> 01:04:41,240
And he always will be.
But even he can experience these

1113
01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:44,520
moments of grace and sort of
reunification with the way of

1114
01:04:44,520 --> 01:04:46,760
grace.
And I think that that that

1115
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:50,400
moment for me was even more key
because it it keeps the movie

1116
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:52,400
from getting cloying.
It keeps the movie from getting

1117
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:55,480
schmaltzy.
And it helps build to that final

1118
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:58,720
point.
Jessica Chastain kind of, you

1119
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:03,480
know, voice narrating voice over
like the only way to be happy is

1120
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:06,400
to choose the way of grace.
They you see them like burying

1121
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:11,600
these things in the dirt and
then it it explodes into the end

1122
01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:14,040
of the universe.
Are we just revisiting God

1123
01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:16,320
again?
Sean Penn is ascending this

1124
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:18,200
elevator.
And, you know, the way I

1125
01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:21,600
interpret it, Brad is like, he
has this sort of like, out of

1126
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:25,960
body transcendent experience
where he finally is able to let

1127
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:29,880
go as Jessica Chastain does,
where she finally let's go and

1128
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:31,240
says, like, I give my son to
you.

1129
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:34,800
And you watch him kind of come
out of that building at the end,

1130
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:38,800
crack a smile, movie's over.
And it's like, oh, yeah, I get

1131
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:40,440
it.
I get what's happening here.

1132
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:45,880
And he's done all of this in
service of this dude having a

1133
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:49,160
midlife crisis and finally
figuring out that, like, it's

1134
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:52,560
all gonna be OK.
And it's just such a beautiful

1135
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:55,880
way of capturing that man.
Sits down at the typewriter.

1136
01:05:55,880 --> 01:06:01,000
Types out the tree of life, you
know, end of movie.

1137
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:03,600
Right.
Oh man.

1138
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:05,320
Big smile, you know?
Yeah.

1139
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:08,440
Yeah, guys, we have talked for
an hour on this movie.

1140
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:10,920
I think it is time for us to
drink some whiskey.

1141
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:13,120
We have provided Bilgo with a
bottle as well.

1142
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:14,640
So what do you say we all go try
this?

1143
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:17,120
Glen Moringy, 10 year Brad, what
do you say?

1144
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:19,640
Dude, I am so excited.
Let's get to it.

1145
01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:29,000
All right, so today we are
checking out Glenn Moringy 10

1146
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:30,600
year.
This is also known as Glenn

1147
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:34,320
Moringy the original.
This is a Highland single malt

1148
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:36,800
Scotch, Brad.
This was the first single malt

1149
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:40,080
Scotch I believe we ever had on
the film and whiskey podcast.

1150
01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:41,880
It might.
Have been the first one that

1151
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:44,880
I've ever drank.
I was gonna ask you the same.

1152
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:48,480
So, being the cheap bastards
that we are, we found this sort

1153
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:52,520
of sample pack back in the day.
Of these is that of Glenn

1154
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:54,520
Moringy.
Does that mean we're distant

1155
01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:58,360
cousins of Fat Bastard?
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, OK.

1156
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:01,960
We come from the cheap side of
things, but it, it contained 4

1157
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:05,000
samples of Glenn Moringy and at
the time Brad and I had

1158
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:07,400
absolutely no facility in the
the world of Scotch.

1159
01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:11,360
And so it was like this is a
pretty low barrier to entry for

1160
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:14,320
trying these scotches.
And so we started with the

1161
01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:16,480
original.
Now at the time this was a 10

1162
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:19,840
year age stated whiskey.
It is now Brad, I've discovered

1163
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:23,160
they've rebranded it and it's a
minimum of 12 years.

1164
01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:26,200
So it's 12 year Age stated.
Now, I wanted to try to find a

1165
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:30,360
bottle of the 10 year to send to
Bilga to sip alongside us, which

1166
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:32,600
made it pretty difficult 'cause
I had to find a liquor store

1167
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:34,480
that still had the old bottles
in stock.

1168
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:37,920
So yeah, Bilga, I believe you
got the 10 year version.

1169
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:41,760
I wanted to ask you.
All right, there you go.

1170
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:44,720
First of all, Bilga, have you
ever had Glen Moringy?

1171
01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:48,160
And beyond that, what is your
experience in the world of

1172
01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:51,600
Scotch?
So I don't know if I've ever had

1173
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:57,320
Glenmorne G It's possible I have
I'm, I'm, I'm more of a bourbon

1174
01:07:57,320 --> 01:07:59,280
person these days than a Scotch
person.

1175
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:01,840
Like it's actually been a while
since I've had Scotch, single

1176
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:07,960
malt or otherwise.
I mean, you know, it's

1177
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:12,800
delicious, but if I, if I, if I
were going to try and like

1178
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:16,240
analyze the taste, I'm not sure
I, I would have the words for

1179
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:18,640
it.
But but yeah, I'm, I used to, I

1180
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:23,439
used to enjoy cinema Mont
Scotch, you know, years ago, but

1181
01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:25,279
along the way I became like a
bourbon person.

1182
01:08:25,279 --> 01:08:28,160
So now when I taste Scotch, it's
kind of like, oh, wow, that's

1183
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:32,880
it's not the same thing, you
know, like it like in my mind

1184
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:34,880
it's different.
It's all whiskey and it's like

1185
01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:38,160
no, no, no, no it isn't.
Right.

1186
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:40,720
But no, this is.
I want you to know that this is

1187
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:43,680
this is how we all feel when we
talk about movies with you.

1188
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:46,359
You, you think you may not have
the words about whiskey, but,

1189
01:08:46,359 --> 01:08:49,040
you know, talking about movies
with you, it's like, yeah, I

1190
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:51,319
think Oppenheimer's good.
And then Bill is like, yeah, I

1191
01:08:51,319 --> 01:08:53,520
was talking to Chris Nolan about
it last week.

1192
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:56,000
It's like, OK, alright.
I guess you got me beat there.

1193
01:08:56,720 --> 01:08:59,560
So Brad, this is a single malt
Scotch whiskey.

1194
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:02,960
I, I know sometimes we get away
from giving definitions.

1195
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:07,240
So when you see single malt on a
label, that word malt means that

1196
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:10,479
it is made entirely from barley.
If it was made with a blend of

1197
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:12,359
grains, it would be called grain
whiskey.

1198
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:15,720
And that word single means that
it comes from one single

1199
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:18,080
distillery.
A lot of Scotch that you'll find

1200
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:21,160
is actually a product of
multiple distilleries that are

1201
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:23,399
blended together.
So that's why when you pick up a

1202
01:09:23,399 --> 01:09:27,359
bottle of Cutty Sark, it'll say
like blended Scotch whiskey

1203
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:29,680
instead of single malt.
So.

1204
01:09:31,359 --> 01:09:36,439
Cutty Sark is some good $20.
Listen, if you only have $17.00

1205
01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:39,240
to spend Cutty Sark, you could
do a hell of a lot worse, man.

1206
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:43,479
Cutty Sark is a is a is an
important an important movie

1207
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:45,000
whiskey.
It is.

1208
01:09:45,319 --> 01:09:48,000
This is true.
You know, Goodfellas and

1209
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:49,960
everything, it's it's show like
that.

1210
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:52,880
That's the movie that I believe
in.

1211
01:09:53,160 --> 01:10:01,400
On Raging Bull there was some
line about Cutty Sark and Martin

1212
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:03,800
Scorsese.
They they were trying to get the

1213
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:08,520
line clear in post, like just
get a clear edit of the, of the

1214
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:13,400
dialogue and the line about
Cutty Sark and, and, and it's

1215
01:10:13,400 --> 01:10:16,400
like the movie, like the like
the movie had to come out right.

1216
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:19,120
They they were running out of
time and Martin Scorsese was

1217
01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:21,480
like, we have to get this right.
And they're like, no, we don't

1218
01:10:21,480 --> 01:10:23,200
have time, which he has to go
out the way it is.

1219
01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:25,280
And he's like, I want my name
off the picture.

1220
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:28,520
Like like he tried to have his
name removed.

1221
01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:31,040
Over Cutty Sark.
Over a Cutty Sark line.

1222
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:33,480
So Cutty Sark is an.
That's a man of the people,

1223
01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:35,960
yeah.
Gets a Nero back in here.

1224
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:41,240
We need him to record 2 words.
Yeah, but but yeah, no, sorry.

1225
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:42,320
Keep going.
I interrupted you.

1226
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:45,280
No, Bill got I, I think this is
actually the first time you're

1227
01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:47,680
going to sip alongside us.
So we'll, we'll set some ground

1228
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:49,600
rules here.
The way we typically do this is

1229
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:51,920
we review across a number of
categories.

1230
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:56,520
So nose, taste, finish, balance,
and then value.

1231
01:10:56,840 --> 01:10:59,520
Now when we get to the balance,
we're essentially asking like,

1232
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:02,440
was this a consistent experience
or was there something like the

1233
01:11:02,440 --> 01:11:04,480
nose was good, but then the
taste sucked.

1234
01:11:04,480 --> 01:11:05,960
You know, that'll affect the
score of that.

1235
01:11:05,960 --> 01:11:09,520
So as we get into this, you know
there are no wrong answers

1236
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:13,360
because as we know, all nosing
notes are complete BS Brad, what

1237
01:11:13,360 --> 01:11:15,400
are you picking up on the nose
of this?

1238
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:17,400
Glenn Moringy here.
Bullshit, Bob.

1239
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:21,160
Lots of bullshit.
I'm getting whiffs of it today

1240
01:11:21,160 --> 01:11:27,520
man.
Oh my gosh, I this is honey.

1241
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:33,560
It's a little bit of apricot.
There is just like a tiny bit of

1242
01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:36,760
salinity to it.
I think that this is just a

1243
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:42,640
really beautiful classic.
Glenn Moringy like it.

1244
01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:45,960
If you had to point to like a
baseline for their brand, it

1245
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:49,640
makes sense that it's this.
I, I think this is a really

1246
01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:54,040
beautiful Scotch.
I, I, I, I love Scotch Bilga.

1247
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:57,680
It is like if I'm going to spend
my own money on something and

1248
01:11:57,680 --> 01:12:00,960
not get a free sample, I'm going
to send it, spend it on Scotch.

1249
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:02,360
And it's because of stuff like
this.

1250
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:06,880
So I I personally am at like
probably an 8 out of 10 here on

1251
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:09,560
the nose.
Yeah, I'm going to give it an 8

1252
01:12:09,560 --> 01:12:11,680
as well, Brad.
And I'm picking up a lot of that

1253
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:13,600
fruit character that you're
getting on this.

1254
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:17,200
Usually when we drink Scotch it,
it comes from three regions.

1255
01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:19,160
Typically there's 5 Scotch
producing regions.

1256
01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:24,840
But the space side region we
have found is like the most

1257
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:26,920
delicate.
There's lots of floral notes,

1258
01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:29,920
really soft fruit notes on that.
And then you've got your Isla

1259
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:33,600
scotches, which is where like
the heavy PD stuff is is made.

1260
01:12:33,960 --> 01:12:36,520
And Highland I find to be kind
of right in the middle of those.

1261
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:39,080
It's great for first time Scotch
drinkers because it gives you a

1262
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:40,560
little bit of the lay of the
land.

1263
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:44,240
It it has a little bit more
spice, it's often a little bit

1264
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:48,240
more alcohol forward, but it
still has on the nose a ton of

1265
01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:50,560
that fruit character.
I'm getting a a bunch of lemon

1266
01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:52,320
zest on this one, Brad.
It's coming through a little bit

1267
01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:56,160
more citrusy for me, but I
cannot wait to dive into this

1268
01:12:56,160 --> 01:12:57,640
thing.
I'm in an 8 out of 10.

1269
01:13:00,280 --> 01:13:01,120
Bug.
How you feeling?

1270
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:05,240
I totally get what you mean
about the, you know, the fruity

1271
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:08,960
smell.
Is that the word you smell?

1272
01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:09,840
Yeah.
That's good, man.

1273
01:13:09,880 --> 01:13:14,400
Is that correct?
No, I, I, I, I'm not I, I do

1274
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:16,920
totally get it.
You know, again, I, I, I don't,

1275
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:21,720
you know, not having kind of
done even this process before, I

1276
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:24,880
don't know what I would smell if
I tried something else, but but

1277
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:28,040
I definitely, I can Like
everything you you described

1278
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:30,320
actually feels very spot on,
like as you described.

1279
01:13:30,480 --> 01:13:32,840
Oh yeah, yeah, I can smell that.
Yeah.

1280
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:35,120
And I think that that's a sign
of of something that's a little

1281
01:13:35,120 --> 01:13:38,080
bit more complex, right, Even
though it's a this is not an

1282
01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:40,360
expensive whiskey when you're
talking single malt Scotch.

1283
01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:43,560
But if you can find all of those
notes just on the nose of it,

1284
01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:48,120
like you're a bourbon drinker,
like vanilla is all over

1285
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:49,480
bourbon.
And if that's the only note

1286
01:13:49,480 --> 01:13:51,760
you're getting, you pretty much
know like this is this is a one

1287
01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:53,560
note bourbon.
I know what I'm expecting here.

1288
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:55,480
This is much more layered than
that, Brad.

1289
01:13:55,480 --> 01:13:57,280
And I get the same thing on the
palate here.

1290
01:13:58,080 --> 01:14:02,000
I do get a bit of vanilla, but
it's definitely like a not quite

1291
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:04,600
lemon meringue, like some sort
of a lemon bar for me.

1292
01:14:04,680 --> 01:14:07,520
There is a bit of honey to it,
but it has like a shortbread

1293
01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:10,040
type quality.
It's really like fatty and

1294
01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:12,040
buttery.
And then when you kick it to the

1295
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:15,040
back of your palate, it does get
that sort of like Scotch

1296
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:19,280
bitterness to it.
Not burnt, not ashy, but it tips

1297
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:22,200
just bitter enough that it
brings some of that kind of like

1298
01:14:22,720 --> 01:14:25,760
herbal vegetal notes to it.
Really, really good, man.

1299
01:14:25,760 --> 01:14:27,080
I'm going to give it an 8 once
again.

1300
01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:29,400
I'm going to jump up to an 8
1/2.

1301
01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:33,240
I, I haven't had this tenure in
a very long time.

1302
01:14:33,800 --> 01:14:39,720
And it, it is that balance of
honey and lemon meringue is the

1303
01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:43,200
most perfect note for that
initial burst of flavor.

1304
01:14:43,720 --> 01:14:48,800
And then the lemon kind of turns
into a very tart, like almost

1305
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:52,360
like a fair lemonade that like,
yes, it's sugary, but it

1306
01:14:52,360 --> 01:14:54,320
actually tastes like lemon as
well.

1307
01:14:55,920 --> 01:15:01,400
And mixed with that vegetable
bitterness at the end that is

1308
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:06,000
just medicinal and beautiful.
And I, I'm at an 8 1/2.

1309
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:10,800
I think it's so freaking good.
Yeah, Bill, I'm interested to

1310
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:14,360
hear, you know, being a bourbon
guy like this is definitely out

1311
01:15:14,360 --> 01:15:17,080
of that flavor profile, like
completely out of that flavor

1312
01:15:17,080 --> 01:15:19,160
profile.
And it's, you know, it's corn

1313
01:15:19,160 --> 01:15:20,960
versus barley.
Like it's just two completely

1314
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:22,640
different grains that are being
used here.

1315
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:25,880
But I'm sure you can pick up on
some of what we're talking

1316
01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:28,240
about, especially on that back
half of the pallet.

1317
01:15:29,080 --> 01:15:33,880
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, for me, you know, am I,

1318
01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:36,120
I've never been a, a, a refined
drinker.

1319
01:15:36,120 --> 01:15:39,240
So like, I mean, occasionally
when I would drink a single

1320
01:15:39,240 --> 01:15:42,080
malt, I, I, I always enjoyed it.
But the thing that the thing

1321
01:15:42,080 --> 01:15:46,080
about, you know, the thing about
Scotch that kind of pushed me

1322
01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:49,320
away was actually the, the, the
blended flavors.

1323
01:15:49,320 --> 01:15:52,600
Like there is, there's a kind of
mealiness to them.

1324
01:15:53,480 --> 01:15:57,120
You know that, I mean, I'm sure
this is, I'm sure there's a

1325
01:15:57,120 --> 01:16:01,400
more, you know, effective way to
describe it, but there's a kind

1326
01:16:01,400 --> 01:16:04,240
of really, I mean the, the thing
I always say, I mean, I, I

1327
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:05,760
enjoyed them.
It's not like I won't drink

1328
01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:07,600
them.
I, I do like them, but there is

1329
01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:10,480
a kind of like, I feel like
somebody already drank this, you

1330
01:16:10,480 --> 01:16:12,960
know, like, like, like I feel
like somebody already drank this

1331
01:16:12,960 --> 01:16:15,040
and I'm just drinking what they
just drank.

1332
01:16:15,080 --> 01:16:17,240
Like not, not.
Getting a note of backwash.

1333
01:16:17,320 --> 01:16:19,960
Yeah, that's exactly I'm.
Like I feel like I I feel like I

1334
01:16:19,960 --> 01:16:22,120
drank something that has already
been drunk.

1335
01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:26,240
I think that might be the the
centuries of English oppression,

1336
01:16:26,600 --> 01:16:30,280
just just.
It's just really percolating

1337
01:16:30,280 --> 01:16:32,960
feels I feel like.
Yes, yeah, I'm drinking and I, I

1338
01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:39,640
feel exploited.
I feel I feel exploited and

1339
01:16:39,640 --> 01:16:40,800
invaded.
Yeah.

1340
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:45,360
On the finish here, like again,
this is I think the low point

1341
01:16:45,360 --> 01:16:47,800
for me because it does turn
bitter and you don't get any

1342
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:49,760
sort of real lingering fruit for
me.

1343
01:16:50,040 --> 01:16:52,840
The barley is super heavy here
and it's it's just a little bit

1344
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:55,040
too like herbaceous vegetal for
me.

1345
01:16:55,480 --> 01:16:58,480
I'm gonna give it a 7 out of 10
and I think I'm being just a tad

1346
01:16:58,480 --> 01:17:00,760
generous there too.
But this is definitely the

1347
01:17:00,760 --> 01:17:02,360
lowest point of the experience
for me.

1348
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:04,640
Yeah, I'm at a 7 out of 10 as
well.

1349
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:07,280
It it falls off a little bit,
doesn't fall off a Cliff or

1350
01:17:07,280 --> 01:17:11,680
anything, but all of the flavor
is packed into the nose and the

1351
01:17:11,680 --> 01:17:14,880
front end of the palate, and it
definitely falls into that

1352
01:17:14,880 --> 01:17:18,240
vegetal area on the finish.
I'm fine with it.

1353
01:17:18,240 --> 01:17:21,080
I like it.
It's not quite at the heights

1354
01:17:21,080 --> 01:17:23,440
that it had been at.
So yeah, 7 out of 10 for me

1355
01:17:23,440 --> 01:17:25,640
here.
It's really where the oppression

1356
01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:27,680
starts to come across.
I think, you know, I'm I'm

1357
01:17:27,680 --> 01:17:29,760
really, I'm finally picking up
those notes here.

1358
01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:32,840
Yeah.
I mean, I, I do, I do think that

1359
01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:37,000
the, the experience is, is a lot
better when you first drink it

1360
01:17:37,000 --> 01:17:39,440
than sort of afterwards.
For sure.

1361
01:17:40,560 --> 01:17:43,520
I that I realize that's a very
inarticulate way of putting.

1362
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:46,920
No, no, I mean, I think that's,
that is a perfect segue into our

1363
01:17:46,920 --> 01:17:50,400
balance category here because I
don't think, you know, if, if

1364
01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:53,080
all three categories were an 8
out of 10, I actually think my

1365
01:17:53,080 --> 01:17:55,760
balance score would be higher
than that because you get marks

1366
01:17:55,760 --> 01:17:57,640
for something being consistently
good.

1367
01:17:58,080 --> 01:18:00,920
So I think I'm going to come
down to about a 7 again on this,

1368
01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:04,960
Brad, because there was such a
fall off on the finish for me

1369
01:18:04,960 --> 01:18:07,280
here.
I think that's fair.

1370
01:18:07,320 --> 01:18:13,480
I I for me the movement from
like the sweet into the

1371
01:18:13,480 --> 01:18:18,120
herbaceous is smooth and I enjoy
it all the way throughout so

1372
01:18:18,120 --> 01:18:21,640
I'll I'll give it a 7 1/2 here.
I would agree though this is not

1373
01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:27,920
like a stand out experience of
single malt well balanced

1374
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:29,640
whiskey.
Sure.

1375
01:18:30,240 --> 01:18:32,280
Well, that gets us into our
value category.

1376
01:18:32,280 --> 01:18:35,000
So I don't know what is this
currently retailing for around

1377
01:18:35,000 --> 01:18:37,640
us, Brad?
That is a great question.

1378
01:18:37,800 --> 01:18:43,040
I man, I feel like it's got to
be in the $50 range.

1379
01:18:44,040 --> 01:18:45,960
It's, I mean, I can tell you
what it cost.

1380
01:18:46,360 --> 01:18:48,960
You know, in Bilga's neck of the
woods, it was about $50 there.

1381
01:18:48,960 --> 01:18:50,760
So I think that's a good
baseline for us.

1382
01:18:50,920 --> 01:18:53,440
To I was gonna say, I was gonna
say I got it for free.

1383
01:18:53,440 --> 01:18:57,440
So it's a great value because he
bought it and mailed it to.

1384
01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:02,720
Me 399.
Yeah, I think at $50, this is

1385
01:19:02,720 --> 01:19:04,920
still a really great value,
Brad.

1386
01:19:04,920 --> 01:19:07,760
There's only a couple single
malts that I can even think of

1387
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:11,000
that would be approaching this
age statement at this price

1388
01:19:11,000 --> 01:19:13,400
point.
Like, you know, and I hate to be

1389
01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:15,480
like, oh, it's the only 1, so
it's a great value.

1390
01:19:15,800 --> 01:19:19,800
But I think this is a well above
average single malt Scotch.

1391
01:19:20,520 --> 01:19:24,160
It's 10 years old.
I'm bad news gonna I'm gonna

1392
01:19:24,160 --> 01:19:28,760
give you some great news.
This bad boy in God's chosen

1393
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:35,800
state of Ohio is 2999.
Are they trying to liquidate it

1394
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:39,960
though to get rid of the 10 year
stock it is?

1395
01:19:40,440 --> 01:19:42,720
30 bucks man.
It doesn't say anything about

1396
01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:48,960
the liquidation or last call 30.
Dollars, Donald Trump,

1397
01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:51,360
Liberation Day.
The tariffs are working.

1398
01:19:51,400 --> 01:19:57,760
Yeah, boy.
Listen, at at 30 bucks, this is

1399
01:19:57,760 --> 01:19:59,520
a no brainer.
Even at 50, I was going to give

1400
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:02,520
this like an 8.
So if it's any less than 50, I'm

1401
01:20:02,520 --> 01:20:04,920
just going to go right ahead and
bump it up to a 10 out of 10,

1402
01:20:04,920 --> 01:20:06,360
Brad.
That's a, that's a, that is a

1403
01:20:06,360 --> 01:20:09,880
really good price.
That's that's shocking. 30 bucks

1404
01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:13,480
for a bottle of this hooch I am
in.

1405
01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:16,840
This is a 10 out of freaking 10
value Bob.

1406
01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:19,520
Yeah, man.
And that and that brings me out

1407
01:20:19,520 --> 01:20:23,840
to a 40 out of 50 on this.
Now for some context, 35 out of

1408
01:20:23,840 --> 01:20:26,360
50 is usually where we start
recommending like you should try

1409
01:20:26,360 --> 01:20:29,920
a pour of this at the bar or
consider buying a bottle. 40 and

1410
01:20:29,920 --> 01:20:33,760
above is usually this is a no
brainer and I think the value

1411
01:20:33,760 --> 01:20:35,480
score definitely helps this one
a bit.

1412
01:20:35,480 --> 01:20:38,200
But if you're looking to break
into the world of single malt

1413
01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:42,520
Scotch, there really is no lower
price point that you can get

1414
01:20:42,520 --> 01:20:45,240
entry into this world.
And it's a darn good whiskey.

1415
01:20:45,240 --> 01:20:47,920
So I think my 40 is well earned
here.

1416
01:20:48,520 --> 01:20:50,800
Yeah.
And and I'd imagine so I'm

1417
01:20:50,800 --> 01:20:53,600
coming out to a 41 out of 50.
I, I am with you.

1418
01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:58,120
I did not expect going into this
to give it that high of a score.

1419
01:20:58,400 --> 01:21:02,320
And even they're like I was at a
31 out of 40 just on the the

1420
01:21:02,320 --> 01:21:06,960
taste categories, right?
So like this is a 7 and a half

1421
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:10,960
eight out of 10 type of whiskey
that if you're paying 30 bucks

1422
01:21:10,960 --> 01:21:15,320
for it, even Bob, I'd imagine
the 50 bucks was, you know, 50 a

1423
01:21:15,320 --> 01:21:18,960
little shipping this and that.
Even at 50 bucks, I think this

1424
01:21:18,960 --> 01:21:22,280
is a good value guys, if you're
looking to break into the world

1425
01:21:22,280 --> 01:21:28,200
of Scotch, if you're tired of
your chasing after bourbon and

1426
01:21:28,200 --> 01:21:32,480
and always trying to find that
perfect pinnacle of is it over

1427
01:21:32,480 --> 01:21:37,160
oaked or not oaked enough, Come
on over to Scotland boys.

1428
01:21:37,160 --> 01:21:41,040
We we got a drink for ya.
It's $30, It's Glenmore in G10,

1429
01:21:41,360 --> 01:21:46,360
and it's freaking delicious.
What better whiskey to pair with

1430
01:21:46,360 --> 01:21:50,680
the creation and destruction of
the Cosmos brat than Glenmore in

1431
01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:52,920
G10?
Yeah, I mean, isn't that what's

1432
01:21:52,920 --> 01:22:00,400
the, the original, the the, the
original word for whiskey and

1433
01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:02,960
and like Irish or Gaelic,
whatever it is.

1434
01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:05,440
Yeah, it's the water of life.
Water of Life.

1435
01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:06,480
There you go.
Wow.

1436
01:22:06,640 --> 01:22:09,600
OK, there you go.
The tree of life with the water

1437
01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:10,760
of life.
I love it.

1438
01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:13,880
Brad, thank you for drawing a
connection that I somehow didn't

1439
01:22:13,880 --> 01:22:15,560
see.
If you water the tree of life

1440
01:22:15,560 --> 01:22:17,640
with the water of life, it will
die.

1441
01:22:19,520 --> 01:22:23,040
This is true.
Thank you for attending Botany

1442
01:22:23,040 --> 01:22:25,200
Corner with Bill Gibiri this
week, folks.

1443
01:22:26,320 --> 01:22:28,360
Don't pour whiskey on your
trees.

1444
01:22:29,160 --> 01:22:32,800
That brings us to an 81 out of
100 or a 40.5.

1445
01:22:32,800 --> 01:22:35,040
On average.
Folks go out and get a bottle of

1446
01:22:35,040 --> 01:22:37,560
Glen Moringy 10.
Fellas, what do you say we get

1447
01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:39,120
back into talking about the Tree
of Life?

1448
01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:46,240
Let's do it.
All right, everybody.

1449
01:22:46,240 --> 01:22:52,320
That was Glen Moringy 10A
whiskey that I forgot how good

1450
01:22:52,320 --> 01:22:55,200
it was.
Bob, I'm so glad.

1451
01:22:55,200 --> 01:22:57,960
It definitely directed me
towards the way of grace, Brad,

1452
01:22:57,960 --> 01:23:00,680
let's just say it that way.
Hey, hey, Glory.

1453
01:23:03,080 --> 01:23:07,800
Well guys, I was so excited to
have Bilga here to talk about

1454
01:23:07,880 --> 01:23:11,040
the Tree of Life today that I
was like, forget 2 facts and a

1455
01:23:11,040 --> 01:23:12,880
falsehood.
We don't need to waste our time

1456
01:23:13,080 --> 01:23:15,760
on Canada's favorite segment.
We need to talk about the Tree

1457
01:23:15,760 --> 01:23:19,280
of Life more.
And with that being in mind, I

1458
01:23:19,280 --> 01:23:22,360
am fascinated to hear what you
guys have to say.

1459
01:23:23,000 --> 01:23:25,440
No, hold on, I need to lay down
something here.

1460
01:23:25,680 --> 01:23:30,000
If we're not doing 2 facts in a
falsehood, do I get an automatic

1461
01:23:30,000 --> 01:23:31,800
victory?
Are we counting that as a win

1462
01:23:31,800 --> 01:23:33,960
for me?
The way of grace, Bob, it's all

1463
01:23:33,960 --> 01:23:38,480
yours.
Yes, thank you, Terrence Malick.

1464
01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:41,400
I appreciate it.
Oh.

1465
01:23:41,400 --> 01:23:44,160
Man, I am fascinated to keep you
guys.

1466
01:23:45,680 --> 01:23:48,200
I I'm sorry, I just wanted to
say Bilga keeps his spotless

1467
01:23:48,200 --> 01:23:50,680
record in 2 facts in a falsehood
alive.

1468
01:23:51,840 --> 01:23:53,800
I think it is 3 and O now.
So there you go.

1469
01:23:53,800 --> 01:23:56,640
That is important.
We have some guests that do Bob

1470
01:23:56,640 --> 01:23:59,360
dirty.
They do, Bill.

1471
01:23:59,360 --> 01:24:01,840
Bill's still gonna keep getting
whiskey sent to him in the mail,

1472
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:06,360
so thank you for that.
Yeah, Bob is very judicious in

1473
01:24:06,360 --> 01:24:12,440
who he sends his whiskey to.
I want to know what you guys

1474
01:24:12,440 --> 01:24:17,120
have to say about Chastain,
about Brad Pitt.

1475
01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:21,360
I like, we, we've talked about
Malik, we've talked about the

1476
01:24:21,360 --> 01:24:25,520
movie itself, the music, the
direction of, you know, we

1477
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:28,640
didn't talk a ton about the
style of filmmaking, about the

1478
01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:32,400
cinematography, which is bonkers
good.

1479
01:24:32,960 --> 01:24:36,520
But I, I, I don't feel like I
can get out of here without

1480
01:24:36,520 --> 01:24:41,360
talking about how impressed I am
with Brad Pitt and Jessica

1481
01:24:41,360 --> 01:24:44,560
Chastain in addition to the
child actors.

1482
01:24:44,560 --> 01:24:47,920
But I'm, I'm going to let you
guys kind of lead the lead the

1483
01:24:47,920 --> 01:24:50,240
role here 'cause I want to hear
what you guys have to say.

1484
01:24:51,920 --> 01:24:56,160
I think maybe let me let me
throw out my hottest take and

1485
01:24:56,160 --> 01:24:57,920
that that can be our starting
point here.

1486
01:24:59,440 --> 01:25:04,000
I honestly think this might be
the best Brad Pitt has ever been

1487
01:25:04,000 --> 01:25:07,760
in a movie.
And I think the reason it

1488
01:25:07,760 --> 01:25:12,160
doesn't get discussed amongst
his best performances is because

1489
01:25:12,480 --> 01:25:17,080
his character in particular, I
don't want to say suffers, but

1490
01:25:17,080 --> 01:25:21,560
like the characterization of
him, all of his resolution is

1491
01:25:21,560 --> 01:25:23,480
tacked onto the front of the
movie.

1492
01:25:24,160 --> 01:25:27,400
And so you only really see him
being this hardened guy

1493
01:25:27,400 --> 01:25:29,880
throughout the rest of the film.
And so it doesn't seem like he

1494
01:25:29,880 --> 01:25:32,720
brings a lot of shades to the
character.

1495
01:25:33,680 --> 01:25:36,840
But that's why that garden scene
towards the end of the film

1496
01:25:36,840 --> 01:25:40,880
stuck with me so much because
you get Pitt has always been

1497
01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:45,000
really good at playing men who
struggle to process feelings.

1498
01:25:45,000 --> 01:25:46,600
Like we talked about it in
Moneyball.

1499
01:25:46,800 --> 01:25:49,720
I think he's just really good at
at kind of suppressing emotion

1500
01:25:49,720 --> 01:25:51,480
and letting that come through
the cracks a bit.

1501
01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:55,680
And he's always been to some
extent, just a very weird actor.

1502
01:25:55,680 --> 01:25:59,280
Brad, like, because he's Brad
Pitt, I think he gets away with

1503
01:25:59,280 --> 01:26:02,600
some of the very strange choices
he makes in terms of his line

1504
01:26:02,600 --> 01:26:05,600
readings and the constant eating
and things he does with his

1505
01:26:05,600 --> 01:26:09,720
mouth, and he's just a strange
actor, but he's so.

1506
01:26:09,720 --> 01:26:11,600
Beautiful.
He just gets away with it.

1507
01:26:11,600 --> 01:26:13,200
You don't care, Right?
Exactly.

1508
01:26:14,200 --> 01:26:17,720
And here I think it works maybe
to its fullest extent.

1509
01:26:17,920 --> 01:26:21,600
And you get it in that garden
sequence of him finally, like

1510
01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:25,000
embracing his son and having
emotion and calling him my sweet

1511
01:26:25,000 --> 01:26:27,040
boy.
And then as they break the

1512
01:26:27,040 --> 01:26:29,760
embrace, he doesn't know what
else to do except shake his

1513
01:26:29,760 --> 01:26:32,120
son's hand.
And it's it's almost funny.

1514
01:26:32,720 --> 01:26:38,200
And he realizes it as he walks
away and stops and turns and

1515
01:26:38,200 --> 01:26:42,440
realizes that something within
him will not allow himself to

1516
01:26:42,440 --> 01:26:45,960
say anything else on the matter.
And then he turns away again.

1517
01:26:46,440 --> 01:26:49,920
And it's just like, it's both
beautiful because he, you know,

1518
01:26:49,920 --> 01:26:54,720
he did the best he could and
also crushing at the same time.

1519
01:26:55,120 --> 01:26:58,240
And I just can't imagine anybody
but Pitt in this.

1520
01:26:58,240 --> 01:27:02,960
Role.
I think that it is the epitome

1521
01:27:03,880 --> 01:27:11,920
of showing one of the most
important things we can do as

1522
01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:15,840
humans is tell the truth in
love.

1523
01:27:16,960 --> 01:27:24,840
And I think the way Malik
visualizes an entire generation

1524
01:27:24,840 --> 01:27:33,520
of men is so honoring in the way
he he illustrates them with

1525
01:27:33,520 --> 01:27:38,560
truth and love.
He like, he's not shying away

1526
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:44,040
from the bullshit that Brad
Pitt's character puts upon his

1527
01:27:44,040 --> 01:27:49,880
children.
And yet you see why he does it.

1528
01:27:49,880 --> 01:27:54,040
You see where he came from You,
you understand who he is.

1529
01:27:54,360 --> 01:27:59,680
And like you just said, Bob like
as much as he is allowed to do

1530
01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:03,360
based on the culture he grew up
in and his his parents

1531
01:28:03,360 --> 01:28:07,160
generation, like as much as he
can show love, he does.

1532
01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:12,520
And even at the end of the film,
you know, like Jack is the

1533
01:28:12,520 --> 01:28:13,960
child, the main character,
right?

1534
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:18,560
Jack basically says to him like
Dad, it's your house.

1535
01:28:18,560 --> 01:28:26,080
Like, he almost like enforces
what the dad has been saying

1536
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:29,960
this whole time of like, my
authority is the authority.

1537
01:28:30,200 --> 01:28:32,640
And even the main character at
the end is like, yeah, dad, this

1538
01:28:32,640 --> 01:28:36,200
is your house.
And there's just this beautiful

1539
01:28:36,400 --> 01:28:40,800
wrestling with the fact that
man, oh, man, he sucks.

1540
01:28:41,320 --> 01:28:44,680
But he knows that he sucks.
And he tries his best to show

1541
01:28:44,680 --> 01:28:48,120
love to his children.
And he's restricted by so many

1542
01:28:48,120 --> 01:28:53,120
things and it leads to some good
outcomes and some bad outcomes

1543
01:28:53,120 --> 01:28:57,560
in the long term life that we
see in Sean Penn as as an older

1544
01:28:57,560 --> 01:29:00,360
man.
And I just think that Pitt

1545
01:29:01,080 --> 01:29:06,120
captures all of that so well.
And I would be so fascinated to

1546
01:29:06,120 --> 01:29:11,400
hear like a very intimate long
form interview with Pitt to hear

1547
01:29:11,400 --> 01:29:16,200
about his experience working on
the film because Malik pulls so

1548
01:29:16,200 --> 01:29:21,760
much out of him.
Yeah, I mean, it's it is a great

1549
01:29:21,760 --> 01:29:26,680
performance.
I mean, this is also the year

1550
01:29:26,680 --> 01:29:29,480
that he had Moneyball, which I
think is actually probably his

1551
01:29:29,480 --> 01:29:32,000
best performance.
But but still like this, you

1552
01:29:32,000 --> 01:29:35,720
know, this is I mean, this is
the one that's most precious to

1553
01:29:35,720 --> 01:29:39,960
me.
You know, I was I was talking to

1554
01:29:39,960 --> 01:29:41,440
somebody else about this the
other day.

1555
01:29:42,040 --> 01:29:46,040
I mean, Terrence Malick movies
have prompt such strange

1556
01:29:46,040 --> 01:29:49,680
reactions.
I mean, Tree of Life was a film

1557
01:29:49,680 --> 01:29:53,520
that was widely beloved and it
was kind of his first film that

1558
01:29:53,520 --> 01:29:57,760
that really was widely beloved
in a while.

1559
01:29:57,760 --> 01:30:00,800
Because I mean, I remember when
The Thin Red Line first came

1560
01:30:00,800 --> 01:30:03,120
out.
I mean, it did it did was like

1561
01:30:03,120 --> 01:30:05,320
nominated for some Oscars and
won some critics awards.

1562
01:30:05,320 --> 01:30:07,360
And there were some very good
reviews.

1563
01:30:07,360 --> 01:30:09,640
And a lot of us were like, this
is the best movie of the year.

1564
01:30:09,640 --> 01:30:13,000
But it was a very divisive
movie, especially since it had

1565
01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:15,560
come out the year the same year
as Saving Private Ryan.

1566
01:30:15,560 --> 01:30:18,560
And it was such a kind of it was
like the exact opposite of

1567
01:30:18,560 --> 01:30:20,240
Saving Private Ryan in so many
ways.

1568
01:30:21,480 --> 01:30:23,760
But it was a really divisive
movie, especially among critics.

1569
01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:27,720
Like people like, like I always
say, I mean, you know, I called

1570
01:30:27,720 --> 01:30:30,520
it the Malek Wars.
And every time he made a new

1571
01:30:30,520 --> 01:30:35,920
movie, it sort of flared up.
But the, the thing that I was

1572
01:30:35,920 --> 01:30:39,160
talking to this person about was
so I remember when the new world

1573
01:30:39,160 --> 01:30:43,560
came out, the new world was, I
mean, Thin Red Line was

1574
01:30:43,560 --> 01:30:46,440
divisive, but largely got good
reviews.

1575
01:30:46,440 --> 01:30:48,280
The new world was much more
divisive.

1576
01:30:49,360 --> 01:30:53,480
And I went to, I'd seen it
already, but you know, before it

1577
01:30:53,560 --> 01:30:57,040
went into wide release that
there was a kind of an all media

1578
01:30:57,040 --> 01:30:59,360
press screening where you go to
a theater and it's like critics,

1579
01:30:59,360 --> 01:31:02,400
but it's also, you know, people
who won like radio contests and

1580
01:31:02,400 --> 01:31:04,400
stuff like that.
And they fill up the, the, the

1581
01:31:04,400 --> 01:31:09,880
room and, and, and these people
hated the new world, Like they

1582
01:31:09,880 --> 01:31:12,800
hated it.
I mean, you could just, and I

1583
01:31:12,800 --> 01:31:16,040
love the new world, but you
know, I can recognize it's not

1584
01:31:16,280 --> 01:31:18,440
an easy film to love.
For a lot of you could read the

1585
01:31:18,520 --> 01:31:20,560
room.
Yeah, I know and I remember and

1586
01:31:20,600 --> 01:31:22,280
I will always tell people about
this.

1587
01:31:22,800 --> 01:31:26,160
I remember walking out and sort
of the the area, not the lobby,

1588
01:31:26,160 --> 01:31:28,400
but the area right outside the
theater out, you know, 'cause I

1589
01:31:28,520 --> 01:31:31,840
most theaters have like 2 doors.
So people are coming out if you

1590
01:31:31,840 --> 01:31:37,640
there are like trash cans there.
And I saw this group of women

1591
01:31:38,120 --> 01:31:40,840
come out on one end and another
group of women come out on the

1592
01:31:40,840 --> 01:31:45,000
other end and they're all kind
of laughing and they all stop

1593
01:31:45,240 --> 01:31:48,880
and they all point to each other
and they go, did you hate that

1594
01:31:48,880 --> 01:31:52,240
much as much as I did?
And these were two totally like,

1595
01:31:52,240 --> 01:31:53,800
these were not people who knew
each other.

1596
01:31:54,440 --> 01:31:59,360
And they were just like bonding,
total strangers bonding over how

1597
01:31:59,360 --> 01:32:02,280
much they fucking hated the new
world.

1598
01:32:04,440 --> 01:32:07,800
So but and I was, I'm sitting
there like, you know, like I

1599
01:32:07,840 --> 01:32:09,920
don't have to talk to these
people, but it is kind of fun to

1600
01:32:09,920 --> 01:32:12,440
just be Privy to this
conversation.

1601
01:32:12,680 --> 01:32:15,880
I mean, they really hated it.
And it would, you know, and then

1602
01:32:15,880 --> 01:32:20,200
I remember I was at a party like
a week after this and it was not

1603
01:32:20,200 --> 01:32:22,280
a party where like, like wasn't
I didn't like know a lot of

1604
01:32:22,280 --> 01:32:24,280
people there.
And somebody came up to me.

1605
01:32:24,280 --> 01:32:27,120
This woman came up to me and she
was not, you know, she was not

1606
01:32:27,120 --> 01:32:31,920
somebody who who knew that I was
a film critic or anything or

1607
01:32:31,920 --> 01:32:34,640
that I had seen this movie or
that I had liked this movie.

1608
01:32:35,040 --> 01:32:38,160
And she comes up to me.
I just saw this movie called The

1609
01:32:38,160 --> 01:32:40,640
New World.
It is the worst piece of shit

1610
01:32:40,640 --> 01:32:42,640
I've ever seen.
Have you seen it?

1611
01:32:43,040 --> 01:32:44,720
And I was like, yeah, I have
actually.

1612
01:32:44,720 --> 01:32:48,040
I'm like, but like, she just
started going off on how much

1613
01:32:48,040 --> 01:32:49,880
she hated.
And I tried to defend the movie

1614
01:32:49,880 --> 01:32:51,320
and it's just like, really
awkward.

1615
01:32:51,320 --> 01:32:54,000
And, you know, never, I have not
seen that person since.

1616
01:32:54,360 --> 01:32:58,600
But it was just such a weird
random interaction at a party.

1617
01:32:59,880 --> 01:33:04,000
So a few years later, you know,
the, The Tree of Life comes out

1618
01:33:05,200 --> 01:33:08,960
and, and I'm walking down the
street and I've seen the Tree of

1619
01:33:08,960 --> 01:33:11,360
Life at this point, you know, I
mean, I've seen it it for its

1620
01:33:11,480 --> 01:33:13,480
press screenings and all that.
I've seen it a couple of times.

1621
01:33:13,480 --> 01:33:15,840
And now it's actually out in
theaters.

1622
01:33:16,320 --> 01:33:19,320
I'm walking down the street in
Brooklyn right by Prospect Park,

1623
01:33:21,040 --> 01:33:24,920
and this guy comes up to me.
Not a person I've ever met in my

1624
01:33:24,920 --> 01:33:29,600
life, not a person who knows me.
Older gentleman, like

1625
01:33:29,640 --> 01:33:33,640
significantly older than me, you
know, probably, probably crazy

1626
01:33:33,640 --> 01:33:37,360
on some level, I don't know.
But like comes up to me and he

1627
01:33:37,360 --> 01:33:39,160
goes.
I just saw a movie called The

1628
01:33:39,160 --> 01:33:45,600
Tree of Life and you know, it
just like completely rocked my

1629
01:33:45,600 --> 01:33:50,320
world and I suddenly realized I
could like, I understood my

1630
01:33:50,320 --> 01:33:54,600
father so much better.
This guy, it's like random

1631
01:33:54,600 --> 01:33:56,880
person, I have no idea who this
person was, just came up to me

1632
01:33:56,880 --> 01:33:59,080
in fucking Brooklyn and just
started talking to me about the

1633
01:33:59,080 --> 01:34:00,600
Tree of life, my favorite movie
of the year.

1634
01:34:02,480 --> 01:34:05,200
So two things like the, you
know, the, the, the, the new

1635
01:34:05,200 --> 01:34:09,440
world reaction, the, the random
strange people who just kind of

1636
01:34:09,440 --> 01:34:12,160
have to just blurt out into the,
into the universe that they

1637
01:34:12,160 --> 01:34:14,280
hated the new world, that that
reaction.

1638
01:34:14,520 --> 01:34:17,640
And then the tree of life
reaction, people who just have

1639
01:34:17,640 --> 01:34:20,040
to blurt out into the world that
they love this thing.

1640
01:34:20,800 --> 01:34:25,280
I actually think it's kind of
the same response, you know,

1641
01:34:25,280 --> 01:34:28,640
like, like it's the same, like
it's like he's touching the same

1642
01:34:28,640 --> 01:34:33,200
thing only in one from what?
Because of the nature of the

1643
01:34:33,200 --> 01:34:37,720
movie, the nature of the story
or whatever, you know, the

1644
01:34:37,720 --> 01:34:40,880
person responds and just like
recoils from it, like, Oh my

1645
01:34:40,880 --> 01:34:43,720
God, this is so fucking corny.
Like how can I can't do this?

1646
01:34:43,720 --> 01:34:45,760
Like this is, Oh my God,
horrible, horrible.

1647
01:34:45,920 --> 01:34:47,960
Anybody else seeing this?
Do you all agree with me that

1648
01:34:47,960 --> 01:34:50,400
this is terrible?
You know, and then in the other

1649
01:34:50,400 --> 01:34:53,320
and then the other one is just
like actually kind of the same

1650
01:34:53,320 --> 01:34:55,760
thing.
This is so raw on some level and

1651
01:34:55,760 --> 01:35:00,040
so just like not the kind of
thing you would see in a movie.

1652
01:35:00,040 --> 01:35:02,920
So I can't just watch it and
process it and be like, Oh yeah,

1653
01:35:02,920 --> 01:35:05,400
that was nice.
I'd like have to just go find

1654
01:35:05,400 --> 01:35:08,640
the a random person on the
street and yell at them about

1655
01:35:08,840 --> 01:35:11,560
like what this film did to me.
I actually think it's kind of

1656
01:35:11,560 --> 01:35:15,600
the same response, but but I do
think that there is something, I

1657
01:35:15,600 --> 01:35:18,480
mean, the fact that this was an
older person who claimed and

1658
01:35:18,520 --> 01:35:20,840
there were critics who said,
like I remember Lou Luminik of

1659
01:35:20,840 --> 01:35:23,760
the New York Post, who I don't
think was a Malik fan.

1660
01:35:23,760 --> 01:35:26,440
Like I can't imagine Lou be
having been a big thin Red line

1661
01:35:26,440 --> 01:35:28,280
fan.
He was a very sort of meat and

1662
01:35:28,280 --> 01:35:30,480
potatoes film review.
He's still around and he's

1663
01:35:30,600 --> 01:35:33,160
retired from film criticism.
Really nice guy actually.

1664
01:35:33,160 --> 01:35:36,960
But he talked about how this
film and he was he was quite a

1665
01:35:36,960 --> 01:35:39,840
bit older than me, but he talked
about how this film really kind

1666
01:35:39,840 --> 01:35:42,760
of resonated with him because it
sort of made him think about his

1667
01:35:42,760 --> 01:35:44,680
own father.
And, and I think he even said,

1668
01:35:44,680 --> 01:35:47,920
you know, this is the kind of
film that really does sort of

1669
01:35:48,120 --> 01:35:50,400
connect to a whole generation of
men.

1670
01:35:52,640 --> 01:35:57,200
So I mean, I, you know, like
there is absolutely something

1671
01:35:57,200 --> 01:35:59,280
there.
And I think Brad Pitt's

1672
01:35:59,280 --> 01:36:02,320
performance really connects to
that.

1673
01:36:02,320 --> 01:36:05,360
And I, and I think probably Brad
Pitt on some level understood

1674
01:36:05,360 --> 01:36:10,440
this as well.
You know, I, I know nothing

1675
01:36:10,440 --> 01:36:13,080
about his family.
Like, I don't know, I don't know

1676
01:36:13,080 --> 01:36:14,760
what his parents were like or
anything like that.

1677
01:36:15,240 --> 01:36:19,920
But but I do think that there's
probably something in that

1678
01:36:19,920 --> 01:36:23,800
portrayal that probably connects
to something that that he

1679
01:36:23,800 --> 01:36:26,880
himself recognized as as a
younger person.

1680
01:36:26,880 --> 01:36:29,280
And you know what I mean?
It's what's sad is, I mean, Brad

1681
01:36:29,280 --> 01:36:33,240
Pitt's life has exploded in so
many ways since then with, you

1682
01:36:33,240 --> 01:36:37,320
know, his divorce from Angelina
Jolie and his kids like changing

1683
01:36:37,320 --> 01:36:41,080
their last names and stuff.
I mean, you know, he's, you

1684
01:36:41,080 --> 01:36:45,160
know, he's, he's, you know, he's
gone through some bad times and,

1685
01:36:45,160 --> 01:36:47,440
and done some bad things.
But, but I do think that there

1686
01:36:47,440 --> 01:36:53,120
is, I mean, there's also this,
you know, this, this strain.

1687
01:36:53,120 --> 01:36:54,800
I mean, we can call it toxic
masculinity.

1688
01:36:54,800 --> 01:36:58,760
We can call it all sorts of, you
know, Twitter friendly catch

1689
01:36:58,760 --> 01:37:00,480
phrases.
But there is like, it's just,

1690
01:37:00,840 --> 01:37:03,560
it's, it's just a thing that
runs in the heart of people.

1691
01:37:03,560 --> 01:37:08,560
And it is carried on among men,
among among women, too.

1692
01:37:08,560 --> 01:37:10,840
Like it is something that's
just, it's, I mean, it's, you

1693
01:37:10,840 --> 01:37:13,360
know, the way of nature and the
way of grace actually kind of

1694
01:37:13,560 --> 01:37:15,280
explains it in a fascinating
way.

1695
01:37:15,720 --> 01:37:19,000
You know, the thin red line
opens with with the lines.

1696
01:37:19,000 --> 01:37:21,040
What's this war in the heart of
nature?

1697
01:37:21,040 --> 01:37:25,240
Why does nature vie with itself,
the land, contend with the sea,

1698
01:37:25,520 --> 01:37:27,760
You know, and then it says, is
there an avenging power in

1699
01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:29,040
nature?
Like, I mean, it's these

1700
01:37:29,040 --> 01:37:33,760
soldiers kind of having these
ruminations about, you know,

1701
01:37:33,760 --> 01:37:37,400
the, the, the peace that they
feel kind of, I mean, especially

1702
01:37:37,400 --> 01:37:39,600
in the opening of that film,
it's, you know, these two

1703
01:37:39,880 --> 01:37:45,400
soldiers who've gone AWOL among
a a, a village of natives on

1704
01:37:45,400 --> 01:37:47,040
Guadalcanal.
And they've like, it's like they

1705
01:37:47,040 --> 01:37:51,600
found Eden almost right, which
is a very Malik thing, like the

1706
01:37:52,760 --> 01:37:56,280
Eden and then losing it is, is
like kind of structurally in all

1707
01:37:56,280 --> 01:38:00,480
his films on some level.
But but the fact that they found

1708
01:38:00,480 --> 01:38:04,160
peace, but within that peace,
all they can think about is like

1709
01:38:06,040 --> 01:38:09,200
the people at the time dismissed
it as, oh, soldiers wondering

1710
01:38:09,200 --> 01:38:10,760
what is war.
But that's not what they're

1711
01:38:10,760 --> 01:38:11,760
saying.
They're not actually saying what

1712
01:38:11,760 --> 01:38:16,120
is war, but what they're saying
is like we have we have

1713
01:38:16,120 --> 01:38:21,760
experienced these two incredibly
powerful forces that are both

1714
01:38:22,080 --> 01:38:25,720
all around us in just like the
the gorgeousness of this place

1715
01:38:25,720 --> 01:38:29,320
that we're in and just the
absolute fucking horror that's

1716
01:38:29,320 --> 01:38:31,400
being wreaked on it and also
within us.

1717
01:38:32,920 --> 01:38:36,680
And you know that that through
line carries through all the

1718
01:38:36,680 --> 01:38:38,360
films.
And I obviously I think it's it

1719
01:38:38,360 --> 01:38:42,800
finds it's sort of purest and
most kind of expansive

1720
01:38:42,800 --> 01:38:46,880
expression in the tree of life.
But but it is, it's there in in

1721
01:38:46,880 --> 01:38:48,880
all the films.
And it is something that he's

1722
01:38:48,880 --> 01:38:53,040
clearly reckoning with and not
reckoning it with because he was

1723
01:38:53,040 --> 01:38:55,640
like a soldier, but reckoning it
with because he went through the

1724
01:38:55,640 --> 01:38:59,560
war of growing up, right?
He went through the combat of

1725
01:39:00,160 --> 01:39:05,200
being brought up as a boomer in
in Bartlesville, OK, and Waco,

1726
01:39:05,200 --> 01:39:08,880
TX, you know, and I think that
there's there's something there

1727
01:39:08,880 --> 01:39:11,480
and, you know, he captures it.
Pit captures it.

1728
01:39:11,880 --> 01:39:13,680
And I mean, just like a Chastain
we can talk about too.

1729
01:39:13,680 --> 01:39:15,640
She's fantastic.
But you know, I've I've

1730
01:39:15,680 --> 01:39:20,600
monologued enough.
Blame it on the Glenmore, Angie.

1731
01:39:21,280 --> 01:39:23,720
Yeah, I know, right?
I want to ask you real quick,

1732
01:39:23,720 --> 01:39:24,760
Brad.
And we can't talk about

1733
01:39:24,760 --> 01:39:26,200
Chastain.
And I think Chastain's really

1734
01:39:26,200 --> 01:39:29,120
good in this movie, but you
know, she has an incredible run

1735
01:39:29,120 --> 01:39:32,360
throughout 20/11/2012.
She had made a ton of movies.

1736
01:39:32,600 --> 01:39:36,240
A lot of them kind of got sat on
and then they all got released

1737
01:39:36,240 --> 01:39:38,920
in 2011.
I think she had at least 6

1738
01:39:38,920 --> 01:39:43,360
movies come out, but like Take
Shelter, she did Coriolanus,

1739
01:39:43,640 --> 01:39:46,400
Tree of Life, and The Help all
came out in 2011.

1740
01:39:46,720 --> 01:39:49,520
Then the next year she was in
kind of a blockbuster called

1741
01:39:49,560 --> 01:39:52,160
Lawless and she was in Zero Dark
30.

1742
01:39:52,480 --> 01:39:55,800
So between the beginning of 2011
and the end of 2012, she is just

1743
01:39:55,840 --> 01:39:58,640
immediately catapulted to like,
mega stardom.

1744
01:39:59,000 --> 01:40:00,480
And she didn't get quite good
here.

1745
01:40:00,760 --> 01:40:04,000
She didn't get caught holding
the leash, so she's she's Scott

1746
01:40:04,000 --> 01:40:07,680
Freeman.
There you go man, I always have

1747
01:40:07,680 --> 01:40:10,320
to make a reference to that one
particular line in 0.

1748
01:40:10,320 --> 01:40:15,960
That is a memorable line, Bob.
Dude, if I can, if I can quickly

1749
01:40:15,960 --> 01:40:19,400
pivot to something 'cause I've
been thinking about this most of

1750
01:40:19,400 --> 01:40:24,120
the episode and it was not on my
radar before, but my perhaps my

1751
01:40:24,120 --> 01:40:28,480
least favorite Christopher Nolan
film is Interstellar.

1752
01:40:29,160 --> 01:40:33,200
And I don't think that it is his
worst film, but I think it's my

1753
01:40:33,200 --> 01:40:37,080
least favorite of his.
And I have just never been able

1754
01:40:37,080 --> 01:40:40,840
to get over the hump of the Anne
Hathaway, the universe is tied

1755
01:40:40,840 --> 01:40:44,360
together by love monologue.
It's just it's never ever worked

1756
01:40:44,360 --> 01:40:48,040
for me.
And I realized watching the Tree

1757
01:40:48,040 --> 01:40:50,240
of Life this time that that is
essentially the same argument

1758
01:40:50,240 --> 01:40:52,680
that Terrence Malick is making
at the end of this film.

1759
01:40:52,680 --> 01:40:56,920
Like Jessica Chastain's final,
final lines in this movie, aside

1760
01:40:56,920 --> 01:41:00,520
from, like, I, I give my son to
you is when she's talking in

1761
01:41:00,520 --> 01:41:04,240
voice over about like, you know,
the way to be happy is to love

1762
01:41:04,240 --> 01:41:06,800
everybody and choose to love
everything.

1763
01:41:07,200 --> 01:41:10,240
And it's like, wow, this is
really as simple as this thesis

1764
01:41:10,240 --> 01:41:13,520
ultimately ends up being.
And I don't know of another

1765
01:41:13,520 --> 01:41:15,880
movie that tries to make a
similar argument on such an

1766
01:41:15,880 --> 01:41:18,200
audacious level as Interstellar
does.

1767
01:41:18,200 --> 01:41:22,320
You know, they're both making
these very small pleas for love

1768
01:41:23,120 --> 01:41:26,440
spread across the universe.
And Brad, I know that

1769
01:41:26,440 --> 01:41:28,640
Interstellar works for you a lot
better than for me.

1770
01:41:28,920 --> 01:41:33,280
I'd like to hear you just very
quickly, like, do I mean, a, do

1771
01:41:33,280 --> 01:41:35,200
you think that they are the same
argument being made?

1772
01:41:35,200 --> 01:41:38,680
But why?
Why is it that you think that

1773
01:41:38,680 --> 01:41:41,320
one seems to work better than
the other, at least to some

1774
01:41:41,320 --> 01:41:43,760
extent?
Man, I mean, I think both films

1775
01:41:43,760 --> 01:41:49,040
capture that idea in scripture
of like he has hidden eternity

1776
01:41:49,040 --> 01:41:53,600
in their hearts, that like
humanity has this picture of the

1777
01:41:53,600 --> 01:41:59,680
cosmos hidden within us.
And for some reason it feels

1778
01:41:59,680 --> 01:42:04,320
like love is the thing that
unlocks the secrets of eternity

1779
01:42:04,840 --> 01:42:08,120
throughout all of human history.
Like you can go across all

1780
01:42:08,120 --> 01:42:12,720
cultures, all poets, all, you
know, people who make art from

1781
01:42:12,720 --> 01:42:16,000
all anywhere in human history.
And it seems like love is one of

1782
01:42:16,000 --> 01:42:19,280
those key things.
I think the reason it works

1783
01:42:19,400 --> 01:42:26,080
better in Malik versus a Nolan
film is that Nolan is trying to

1784
01:42:26,080 --> 01:42:30,840
explain things, Malik is trying
to help you feel things.

1785
01:42:31,960 --> 01:42:35,040
And I for better, for worse.
Like the reason I think Nolan

1786
01:42:35,040 --> 01:42:38,440
has become a better film maker
as he's moved along is like

1787
01:42:38,560 --> 01:42:43,240
Oppenheimer isn't necessarily
trying to explain things to you.

1788
01:42:43,800 --> 01:42:48,280
Oppenheimer is trying to help
you understand and feel

1789
01:42:48,280 --> 01:42:51,840
something in addition to
explaining a few things.

1790
01:42:51,840 --> 01:42:55,080
But just think about the
exposition in Interstellar

1791
01:42:55,080 --> 01:42:59,040
versus Oppenheimer, right?
Even even like Inception versus

1792
01:42:59,040 --> 01:43:02,600
Oppenheimer, I, I think Nolan is
maturing as a director in that

1793
01:43:02,600 --> 01:43:06,240
way.
And I think that's but I, I do

1794
01:43:06,240 --> 01:43:11,120
think that's why it works in a
film like tree of life, because

1795
01:43:11,440 --> 01:43:13,960
love isn't something that you
can explain.

1796
01:43:13,960 --> 01:43:17,760
It's not a science equation.
You know, people try to explain

1797
01:43:17,760 --> 01:43:22,120
like, oh, why does that 10 fall
in love with that six?

1798
01:43:22,120 --> 01:43:25,120
And it's like, oh, well, he must
have something, you know, he

1799
01:43:25,120 --> 01:43:26,920
makes a lot of money or this or
that.

1800
01:43:26,920 --> 01:43:30,960
It's like, right, right.
Maybe, but maybe love is just

1801
01:43:30,960 --> 01:43:35,120
weird and you can't, you can't
reduce it to a formula.

1802
01:43:35,480 --> 01:43:39,600
And maybe it is a feeling and
maybe it's the beauty of your

1803
01:43:39,600 --> 01:43:45,320
mother being a, a, a wayfish
beautiful wisp of a woman who

1804
01:43:45,320 --> 01:43:50,760
just enjoys life and floats
around a tree and brings a smile

1805
01:43:50,760 --> 01:43:54,680
to your heart.
And I who knows what love is,

1806
01:43:54,680 --> 01:44:01,120
but I feel like we experience it
here with Malik in a way that I

1807
01:44:01,120 --> 01:44:03,360
mean, you have the father's love
for his daughter in

1808
01:44:03,360 --> 01:44:06,800
Interstellar, but there's just
so much that happens in between

1809
01:44:06,800 --> 01:44:09,760
and so much explaining and it's.
It's much more plot heavy for

1810
01:44:09,760 --> 01:44:12,200
sure.
Yeah, Bill, am I, am I crazy

1811
01:44:12,200 --> 01:44:13,880
here?
Is it an unfair comparison?

1812
01:44:13,880 --> 01:44:15,920
It just, it really did remind me
of that this time.

1813
01:44:17,400 --> 01:44:19,160
I don't think it's an unfair
comparison.

1814
01:44:19,640 --> 01:44:23,200
I mean, I say this as someone
who who loves Interstellar but

1815
01:44:23,200 --> 01:44:24,360
like, I mean thank.
You, Bill.

1816
01:44:24,880 --> 01:44:28,600
No, I'm, I absolutely adore
Interstellar, but it's also, I

1817
01:44:28,600 --> 01:44:30,720
mean, I've written about it and
everything, but like, you know,

1818
01:44:31,760 --> 01:44:34,640
I wouldn't compare the two films
in that.

1819
01:44:34,680 --> 01:44:36,800
I mean, I wouldn't compare the
two films as like 1.

1820
01:44:36,960 --> 01:44:40,160
Which one's better?
I mean, if I had to put a gun to

1821
01:44:40,160 --> 01:44:42,720
my head, I would pick tree of
Life 10 times out of 10.

1822
01:44:42,720 --> 01:44:45,200
But you know, like doesn't mean
I don't love Interstellar.

1823
01:44:47,200 --> 01:44:51,400
Not very, not where, not very
way of grace, though, to put a

1824
01:44:51,400 --> 01:44:53,640
gun to someone's head and force
in the picture between

1825
01:44:54,040 --> 01:45:02,400
Interstellar and tree of Life.
But I think that the the thing

1826
01:45:02,400 --> 01:45:06,200
that both both films are getting
to and you're right.

1827
01:45:06,200 --> 01:45:09,120
I mean, Nolan does have to
explain things that the thing

1828
01:45:09,120 --> 01:45:12,080
about Interstellar is, you know,
it originated as a Spielberg

1829
01:45:12,080 --> 01:45:14,680
movie.
I mean, like, Jonathan Nolan

1830
01:45:14,720 --> 01:45:18,760
wrote the script, but it was
written for Spielberg.

1831
01:45:19,200 --> 01:45:22,800
And, and what I find fascinating
about Interstellar is that it

1832
01:45:22,800 --> 01:45:27,000
it, it does feel at times like
Nolan wrestling with something

1833
01:45:27,000 --> 01:45:29,840
that would probably have been
very easy for Spielberg to do.

1834
01:45:30,000 --> 01:45:32,040
I don't know that Spielberg
would have made a great film out

1835
01:45:32,040 --> 01:45:35,080
of Interstellar.
But the parts that Nolan, like

1836
01:45:35,080 --> 01:45:37,520
Nolan's mind works very
differently from Spielberg's.

1837
01:45:37,520 --> 01:45:39,240
And there are moments where
you're like, oh, this is a

1838
01:45:39,240 --> 01:45:42,600
Spielberg moment that Nolan is
trying to turn to, to sort of

1839
01:45:42,960 --> 01:45:45,000
wrap his head around and make
his own.

1840
01:45:45,000 --> 01:45:47,760
And I think he succeeds at it.
But it is it does it.

1841
01:45:47,760 --> 01:45:49,680
Yeah.
But the two things that both

1842
01:45:49,680 --> 01:45:53,840
films are, the thing that both
films are kind of exploring and

1843
01:45:53,840 --> 01:46:00,000
circling around is, is the idea
of love as an actual force,

1844
01:46:00,000 --> 01:46:05,320
right, As an actual power.
And I think that this is

1845
01:46:05,320 --> 01:46:11,480
something that, you know, like
within sort of the religious

1846
01:46:11,480 --> 01:46:13,480
tradition.
I mean, the idea of love as

1847
01:46:13,480 --> 01:46:21,680
something somehow both humbling,
but also like that makes you

1848
01:46:21,680 --> 01:46:26,240
capable of, of great things.
Like that makes you capable of

1849
01:46:27,680 --> 01:46:33,680
imagining, you know, the, the,
the origins of the universe and

1850
01:46:33,680 --> 01:46:35,920
also imagining the end of the
universe.

1851
01:46:37,040 --> 01:46:41,280
I mean, like, for example, you
know, when we talk about

1852
01:46:41,280 --> 01:46:43,960
religious art and you know,
there was a time when pretty

1853
01:46:43,960 --> 01:46:45,560
much all art was religious art,
right?

1854
01:46:45,600 --> 01:46:52,320
I mean, you know, if you think
about the Last Supper, if you

1855
01:46:52,360 --> 01:46:56,160
think about the, you know, the,
the, the, the creation of Adam

1856
01:46:56,240 --> 01:47:02,000
or you think about the, the, you
know, the cathedrals of the

1857
01:47:02,280 --> 01:47:07,320
Middle Ages, like how the hell
did humans build this right?

1858
01:47:07,640 --> 01:47:10,160
And there's always, you know,
there's always the explanation.

1859
01:47:10,160 --> 01:47:14,040
They, they built it because of,
of, of, you know, of their fear

1860
01:47:14,040 --> 01:47:19,000
of God or because they believed
in God, which obviously, you

1861
01:47:19,000 --> 01:47:22,640
know, the person who painted the
Last Supper probably believed in

1862
01:47:22,640 --> 01:47:24,640
God.
Like I'm, I'm willing to concede

1863
01:47:24,640 --> 01:47:33,400
them that, but I but, but, but
what's really working there is

1864
01:47:33,640 --> 01:47:38,680
love, right?
I mean, you cannot create the,

1865
01:47:38,840 --> 01:47:43,560
the creation of Adam if there
isn't some incredible force of

1866
01:47:43,560 --> 01:47:47,480
love driving you.
I mean, yes, there's ambition

1867
01:47:47,480 --> 01:47:49,920
and stuff like that, but there
are a lot of people who are

1868
01:47:49,920 --> 01:47:52,360
ambitious and there are a lot of
people who are ambitious and

1869
01:47:52,360 --> 01:47:57,400
talented.
But like there's, there's like,

1870
01:47:57,640 --> 01:48:00,800
like a small handful of people
who are capable of this kind of

1871
01:48:00,800 --> 01:48:03,600
work.
And I do think that love has to

1872
01:48:03,600 --> 01:48:06,160
play a part in that.
And you know, and, and God is

1873
01:48:06,160 --> 01:48:10,480
the connect connection there.
Like, you know, you have to love

1874
01:48:10,480 --> 01:48:14,040
something greater than yourself,
I think, to be able to do work

1875
01:48:14,040 --> 01:48:19,000
like that.
And, you know, and, and Tree of

1876
01:48:19,000 --> 01:48:20,800
Life is an expression of that.
And that's the other thing about

1877
01:48:20,800 --> 01:48:23,720
Tree of Life is that like it, it
feels like it could stand

1878
01:48:23,720 --> 01:48:28,400
alongside a great work by da
Vinci or Michelangelo, you know,

1879
01:48:29,880 --> 01:48:33,160
you know, like, like it feels
like, you know, obviously it, it

1880
01:48:33,160 --> 01:48:36,240
has scale, so it has that kind
of momentousness, but it feels

1881
01:48:36,240 --> 01:48:40,040
like it was it was created with
the same sort of life force

1882
01:48:41,120 --> 01:48:44,040
coursing through the people that
made it.

1883
01:48:45,920 --> 01:48:51,200
And and yeah, like that's,
that's that's my answer, I said.

1884
01:48:51,440 --> 01:48:53,720
That's what I guess.
Yeah, No, I think that's a

1885
01:48:53,720 --> 01:48:56,560
perfect segue into our last
segment of the day, which we

1886
01:48:56,560 --> 01:48:59,560
call Let's Make it a double.
We're near the end of the

1887
01:48:59,680 --> 01:49:02,320
episode, so thanks.
Listening to the film and

1888
01:49:02,320 --> 01:49:05,480
Whiskey Show, let's have another
film with this one, even if it's

1889
01:49:05,480 --> 01:49:07,160
struggling.
It's the final segment of the

1890
01:49:07,160 --> 01:49:08,560
day.
Now let's make it a double.

1891
01:49:08,760 --> 01:49:11,040
Let's Make It a Double is the
part of the show where we pick a

1892
01:49:11,040 --> 01:49:14,000
movie to pair up with this one
to make the perfect double

1893
01:49:14,000 --> 01:49:16,000
feature?
Guys, we've mentioned a lot of

1894
01:49:16,000 --> 01:49:18,640
films today, Brad, I wrote down
a short list of movies that

1895
01:49:18,640 --> 01:49:20,240
could be on my Let's Make It a
Double.

1896
01:49:20,720 --> 01:49:23,120
East of Eden was one of them.
I think East of Eden is a really

1897
01:49:23,120 --> 01:49:25,960
great comparison 'cause this
does become a Cain and Abel

1898
01:49:25,960 --> 01:49:28,240
story for a good chunk of the
movie.

1899
01:49:29,920 --> 01:49:31,080
You know, I'll turn it over to
you first.

1900
01:49:31,080 --> 01:49:33,120
Brad, who do you want to or what
movie would you like to pick

1901
01:49:33,120 --> 01:49:34,240
today for?
Let's make it a.

1902
01:49:34,720 --> 01:49:37,560
I'm going to take it to a place
we have not talked about yet.

1903
01:49:37,920 --> 01:49:43,640
This is another of my favorite
movies in the genre of like,

1904
01:49:44,880 --> 01:49:48,680
examining what it means to be a
human right like that.

1905
01:49:48,840 --> 01:49:50,640
I feel like that's a genre of
film.

1906
01:49:51,240 --> 01:49:54,680
And I mean, is that every film?
Who knows?

1907
01:49:55,640 --> 01:50:02,400
I'm going to pair it with Akiru.
Oh man, Akiru just does such a

1908
01:50:02,400 --> 01:50:06,080
masterful job of taking the
human experience.

1909
01:50:06,400 --> 01:50:11,000
I think that for a movie made in
the 1950s, it has way too much

1910
01:50:11,000 --> 01:50:15,840
relevance for a generation.
A culture that our modern

1911
01:50:15,840 --> 01:50:20,160
culture that is distracting
itself into oblivion the same

1912
01:50:20,160 --> 01:50:24,760
way that his government work was
just nulling or dulling his

1913
01:50:24,760 --> 01:50:29,560
senses into oblivion.
And the wake up call to purpose

1914
01:50:29,600 --> 01:50:33,440
and meaning is so powerfully
portrayed.

1915
01:50:33,800 --> 01:50:38,640
And then the the drunken we're
going to live for this man.

1916
01:50:38,640 --> 01:50:40,760
And then they just fall back
into their old patterns.

1917
01:50:40,760 --> 01:50:44,400
Like what an examination of the
human experience.

1918
01:50:45,000 --> 01:50:48,600
I think it would be a really
depressing and beautiful and

1919
01:50:48,600 --> 01:50:53,760
awesome like 7 hours of watching
Akiru and Tree of Life

1920
01:50:53,760 --> 01:50:56,480
back-to-back.
That's wonderful, man.

1921
01:50:56,480 --> 01:50:59,840
That's such a good pick, Brad.
I'll go ahead and go next so

1922
01:50:59,840 --> 01:51:01,640
that Bilga can have the last
word here.

1923
01:51:02,520 --> 01:51:03,880
I was gonna.
Pick Toy Story 3.

1924
01:51:03,920 --> 01:51:08,120
And watching No, no, I'm gonna
pick Toy Story 4.

1925
01:51:08,120 --> 01:51:13,480
Brad no, I almost watched the
three hour cut of this movie

1926
01:51:13,480 --> 01:51:16,880
that's featured on the Criterion
Blu-ray and I chose not to

1927
01:51:16,880 --> 01:51:18,960
because I was thinking for a
time.

1928
01:51:19,360 --> 01:51:22,200
I have never gotten around to
seeing the Coen brothers movie A

1929
01:51:22,200 --> 01:51:28,280
Serious Man, which is ostensibly
the only other job related movie

1930
01:51:28,280 --> 01:51:31,160
to come out in the last, you
know, 1520 years.

1931
01:51:31,520 --> 01:51:33,080
I don't think I'm gonna pair it
with that.

1932
01:51:33,080 --> 01:51:34,920
And I don't know if that tells
you what I thought of A Serious

1933
01:51:34,920 --> 01:51:38,720
Man or not, but I I did not get
around to watching the longer

1934
01:51:38,720 --> 01:51:42,240
version of The Tree of Life.
But what really stuck with me

1935
01:51:42,440 --> 01:51:46,200
about the version we watched was
that sort of middle section

1936
01:51:46,200 --> 01:51:50,280
about puberty and these two
brothers who were at odds with

1937
01:51:50,280 --> 01:51:52,080
each other.
That's why East of Eden came up.

1938
01:51:52,600 --> 01:51:56,360
But it reminded me of a film
that kind of had the same kind

1939
01:51:56,360 --> 01:52:00,400
of boots on the ground, almost
verite style of filming young

1940
01:52:00,400 --> 01:52:05,720
people while also telling a
really dramatic story about what

1941
01:52:05,720 --> 01:52:08,640
it means to deal with with guilt
and shame.

1942
01:52:09,000 --> 01:52:11,520
And that's a French film that
came out just a couple years ago

1943
01:52:11,520 --> 01:52:14,640
that was released under the
title close in the United

1944
01:52:14,640 --> 01:52:17,440
States.
And this was a a really

1945
01:52:17,440 --> 01:52:20,200
affecting movie.
Like it just one of the better

1946
01:52:20,200 --> 01:52:25,560
movies about kind of preteen
coming of age that I've seen in

1947
01:52:25,560 --> 01:52:27,640
a really long time.
It's it's a bit of a tragic

1948
01:52:27,640 --> 01:52:32,040
story, but it's about two boys
who are struggling with their

1949
01:52:32,240 --> 01:52:35,600
parasocial relationships and the
expectations of them from

1950
01:52:35,600 --> 01:52:39,040
outside forces and what it means
to try to preserve this sort of

1951
01:52:39,280 --> 01:52:43,320
really innocent boyhood
friendship in the face of the

1952
01:52:43,320 --> 01:52:45,640
realities of life.
So I'm going to pair it with

1953
01:52:45,640 --> 01:52:48,400
close.
Dude, I think that's the first

1954
01:52:48,400 --> 01:52:53,280
time we've ever paired 2 foreign
language films for Let's Make It

1955
01:52:53,280 --> 01:52:55,640
a Double.
This is our least accessible

1956
01:52:56,040 --> 01:52:58,560
Let's make it a double yet.
Bill Go.

1957
01:52:58,560 --> 01:53:02,520
What foreign film do you have
for us to to cap it off?

1958
01:53:02,960 --> 01:53:07,640
I, I don't have a foreign film.
You know, it's funny because

1959
01:53:07,640 --> 01:53:10,840
it's, I mean, you know, when you
have a film you love so much,

1960
01:53:10,840 --> 01:53:13,720
you, you, you always want to
pair it with all sorts of other

1961
01:53:13,720 --> 01:53:15,040
films.
Because a movie like this

1962
01:53:15,040 --> 01:53:17,920
contains so much that I'm like,
I could pair it with anything,

1963
01:53:17,920 --> 01:53:19,960
you know?
Jaws.

1964
01:53:20,400 --> 01:53:24,880
Jaws yeah, why not?
But the movie that I actually, I

1965
01:53:24,880 --> 01:53:29,120
actually have mentioned this
before as a because I, I saw

1966
01:53:29,120 --> 01:53:32,920
these movies.
Well, it's the the second one I

1967
01:53:32,920 --> 01:53:36,960
saw a little later, but it, but
it kind of always reminds me of

1968
01:53:36,960 --> 01:53:39,600
the tree of life.
It's, it's a movie called It's

1969
01:53:39,600 --> 01:53:44,160
Such a Beautiful day by Don
Herzfeld, the the independent

1970
01:53:44,160 --> 01:53:47,840
animator.
It's 62 minutes long, like it's

1971
01:53:47,840 --> 01:53:52,400
not a long film.
We talk about the 90 minute film

1972
01:53:52,400 --> 01:53:56,000
being being a masterpiece.
We we have not had a 60 minute

1973
01:53:56,000 --> 01:53:58,760
film yet, Bob.
You know, and it's funny because

1974
01:53:58,760 --> 01:54:01,200
it's like it's 62 minutes and
it's like, I mean, not the tree

1975
01:54:01,200 --> 01:54:03,800
of life is that long, but but it
is funny because it's such a

1976
01:54:03,800 --> 01:54:08,120
kind of like, you know, like a,
a film that occupies space.

1977
01:54:09,120 --> 01:54:11,520
And I mean, it's such a
beautiful day.

1978
01:54:11,520 --> 01:54:14,520
I believe is actually kind of
stitched together from three

1979
01:54:14,520 --> 01:54:17,320
shorter films, although it, it
feels very much like 1

1980
01:54:17,320 --> 01:54:20,200
continuous film.
And it's like, I mean, Herzfeld

1981
01:54:20,200 --> 01:54:22,840
works in these like like stick
figure animations.

1982
01:54:22,840 --> 01:54:25,760
It's a very basic animation, but
it's it's the film is about a

1983
01:54:25,760 --> 01:54:30,880
guy who is kind of going through
his day realizing something is

1984
01:54:30,880 --> 01:54:35,440
wrong and and he may or may not
be like terminally ill, but he's

1985
01:54:35,440 --> 01:54:39,400
also going through his memories
and remembering a brother who

1986
01:54:39,400 --> 01:54:45,800
kind of suggested that he died.
But like, I mean, it's, it's all

1987
01:54:45,800 --> 01:54:48,440
very sort of very fleeting
little moments.

1988
01:54:48,600 --> 01:54:51,360
And then it incorporates, you
know, nature footage and all

1989
01:54:51,360 --> 01:54:53,640
sorts of other things.
So it's feels more like a

1990
01:54:53,640 --> 01:54:55,200
collage really than an
animation.

1991
01:54:56,400 --> 01:55:00,200
And it is, I mean, but it has a
very similar kind of feeling as,

1992
01:55:01,720 --> 01:55:06,160
as the tree of life because it,
it does feel like, I mean, the,

1993
01:55:06,200 --> 01:55:09,600
the, the story of the sky is
awful, Like all these awful

1994
01:55:09,600 --> 01:55:13,320
things are happening to him.
But you know, the, the whole

1995
01:55:13,320 --> 01:55:17,200
thing winds up becoming about
just like the importance of

1996
01:55:17,200 --> 01:55:20,320
loving and appreciating everyone
and everything around you in the

1997
01:55:20,320 --> 01:55:25,160
sense that that we're all really
kind of connected in this like

1998
01:55:25,160 --> 01:55:29,720
incredibly complicated,
beautiful, terrible reality that

1999
01:55:29,720 --> 01:55:31,880
we live in.
It's a great, great movie.

2000
01:55:33,720 --> 01:55:37,560
You know, I mean, it's, it's,
it's, it's really hard to

2001
01:55:37,560 --> 01:55:40,440
describe, even harder to
describe than the tree of life,

2002
01:55:40,880 --> 01:55:45,000
but would make a mind blowing
double feature with the tree of

2003
01:55:45,000 --> 01:55:46,920
life.
At least you didn't have Bob

2004
01:55:46,920 --> 01:55:50,080
telling you that you have to do
the best job you've ever done

2005
01:55:50,320 --> 01:55:51,920
before you tried to explain that
movie.

2006
01:55:52,880 --> 01:55:57,040
That's true.
Yeah, Now I will say, Brad, I I

2007
01:55:57,040 --> 01:55:59,040
saw a review of Tree of Life.
I can't remember, maybe it was

2008
01:55:59,040 --> 01:56:00,320
Bilga.
It was somebody I was reading

2009
01:56:00,320 --> 01:56:02,760
before we jumped on here.
And and there was this a short

2010
01:56:02,760 --> 01:56:05,600
little snippet that was
defending the movie against

2011
01:56:05,600 --> 01:56:07,200
allegations of being
pretentious.

2012
01:56:07,200 --> 01:56:10,280
And it just said like, this
movie is too sincere to be

2013
01:56:10,280 --> 01:56:13,480
pretentious.
And I, I thought that was just

2014
01:56:13,480 --> 01:56:16,840
the best encapsulation of why
this movie works, because I

2015
01:56:16,840 --> 01:56:19,280
think that explaining it to
somebody it, it can sound

2016
01:56:19,280 --> 01:56:21,520
pretentious.
Anybody that decides to make

2017
01:56:21,520 --> 01:56:24,120
their movie about the
foundations of the universe and

2018
01:56:24,120 --> 01:56:27,720
link it to their own personal
autobiographical story like that

2019
01:56:27,720 --> 01:56:31,480
sounds a little bit haughty, you
know, like I, I, I think just to

2020
01:56:31,480 --> 01:56:35,200
hear it from outside terms, but
there is something about the

2021
01:56:35,200 --> 01:56:38,760
level of sincerity and, and
authenticity.

2022
01:56:39,080 --> 01:56:41,680
And I don't know what's the word
that you use, Brad, You use

2023
01:56:41,680 --> 01:56:43,760
sincere, but there's another
word that you use sometimes.

2024
01:56:44,720 --> 01:56:45,600
Yeah.
Yeah.

2025
01:56:45,600 --> 01:56:49,560
I mean, it's just you can tell
that this is this guy really

2026
01:56:49,560 --> 01:56:52,880
means what he's doing, and he's
thinking deeply about this.

2027
01:56:53,320 --> 01:56:56,280
And I'll tease a movie that we
have coming up at the end of the

2028
01:56:56,280 --> 01:57:00,560
season, Brad, that most people
hate called American Beauty,

2029
01:57:00,840 --> 01:57:05,000
that I will be perhaps the
world's sole defender of because

2030
01:57:05,000 --> 01:57:08,520
it's the only other movie with
the balls to just come right out

2031
01:57:08,520 --> 01:57:10,960
and talk about how beautiful
things actually are.

2032
01:57:11,240 --> 01:57:16,760
I'm looking forward to just
wallowing in the corniness of of

2033
01:57:16,920 --> 01:57:21,080
affirming life along with you
and the Tree of Life and Ikiru

2034
01:57:21,080 --> 01:57:24,760
Brad.
Yeah, dude, I, I am all about

2035
01:57:24,760 --> 01:57:27,840
it, man.
Bill got it's been so good to

2036
01:57:27,840 --> 01:57:30,760
have you on.
Thank you so much for joining

2037
01:57:30,760 --> 01:57:32,880
us.
I was going to say let's do

2038
01:57:32,880 --> 01:57:35,440
final scores, but I think it's a
10 for all of us, right?

2039
01:57:35,440 --> 01:57:38,360
Like there's just, it's a no
brainer. 10 out of 10 here,

2040
01:57:38,720 --> 01:57:42,200
yeah.
This, this would be like on my

2041
01:57:42,200 --> 01:57:45,920
list of films I wish I could get
people to watch and take

2042
01:57:45,920 --> 01:57:48,720
seriously.
This might, this is probably

2043
01:57:48,720 --> 01:57:52,000
number one.
I, I really wish there were more

2044
01:57:52,000 --> 01:57:56,920
people that would watch this
and, and know that going in,

2045
01:57:56,920 --> 01:57:59,600
it's going to be different than
a traditional movie experience.

2046
01:58:00,360 --> 01:58:05,520
And to go into it with that
mindset of let's take seriously

2047
01:58:05,520 --> 01:58:08,960
these questions that I often
like to hide within my own soul.

2048
01:58:10,120 --> 01:58:15,520
I man, tree of life.
Well, it feels a little bit.

2049
01:58:15,520 --> 01:58:19,200
What a picture.
It's a real chef's kiss of a

2050
01:58:19,200 --> 01:58:21,880
movie.
It feels a little bit trite to

2051
01:58:22,040 --> 01:58:25,040
to pivot from that to asking
Bilga, like what articles he has

2052
01:58:25,040 --> 01:58:27,000
coming out soon.
But we got to let the guy plug

2053
01:58:27,000 --> 01:58:29,160
himself a little bit.
Bilga, what?

2054
01:58:29,160 --> 01:58:31,120
What's coming down the Pike and
where can we find you?

2055
01:58:31,400 --> 01:58:36,280
When this when this hits, I will
be at the Venice Film Festival.

2056
01:58:37,080 --> 01:58:38,720
I'm supposed to cover that this
year.

2057
01:58:38,840 --> 01:58:44,560
So, you know, usually that's
just like a deluge of reviews

2058
01:58:44,560 --> 01:58:48,320
for me.
That's kind of, you know, so I

2059
01:58:48,320 --> 01:58:51,760
can't tell you yet like what,
what the reviews will be.

2060
01:58:51,760 --> 01:58:52,720
I mean, there are there are a
bunch of.

2061
01:58:52,760 --> 01:58:55,440
But there will be reviews.
There will be reviews.

2062
01:58:55,440 --> 01:58:58,040
Absolutely hated the new Luca
Guadagnino.

2063
01:58:58,040 --> 01:58:59,640
It's, it's crazy, he already
told.

2064
01:58:59,800 --> 01:59:03,680
US guys, that's nuts.
I mean, I will probably have

2065
01:59:03,680 --> 01:59:06,040
reviewed the new Luca Guanino by
that point.

2066
01:59:06,040 --> 01:59:10,560
So so maybe I could hate it, who
knows, but yes, so that that'll

2067
01:59:10,560 --> 01:59:12,440
be that'll be the thing.
I mean, there's always stuff I'm

2068
01:59:12,440 --> 01:59:15,920
working on, but you know, you
never know when something will

2069
01:59:15,920 --> 01:59:18,200
actually be published or when I
will actually file it.

2070
01:59:18,200 --> 01:59:21,800
But during the festival, I do, I
do, I do hit my deadlines well.

2071
01:59:23,240 --> 01:59:25,960
We can't say enough how how
grateful and how honored we are

2072
01:59:25,960 --> 01:59:28,400
that you spent some time with us
again, Bill got you know, you,

2073
01:59:28,440 --> 01:59:31,240
you're a very humble guy.
I think it's fair to say that

2074
01:59:31,240 --> 01:59:34,440
you are, if not America's pre
eminent critic at this point,

2075
01:59:34,440 --> 01:59:35,640
that you were certainly among
them.

2076
01:59:35,640 --> 01:59:38,760
And so to come here and drink
some whiskey with us and talk

2077
01:59:38,760 --> 01:59:41,720
about Joe Dirt.
I I can't thank you enough, man.

2078
01:59:42,720 --> 01:59:48,560
Listen, you know 222 men of the
cloth.

2079
01:59:49,720 --> 01:59:53,040
Joe Dirt was kind of my dream
all along there.

2080
01:59:54,120 --> 01:59:56,280
You go.
No, this was great.

2081
01:59:56,280 --> 01:59:58,280
Thank you so much.
I mean, I, I love talking about

2082
01:59:58,280 --> 02:00:00,880
this film.
You know, you mentioned as soon

2083
02:00:00,880 --> 02:00:04,320
as I saw the list, I was like
that like 3 of life, you know, I

2084
02:00:04,320 --> 02:00:06,760
mean, there were many, like
there are a lot of great movies

2085
02:00:06,760 --> 02:00:09,080
on that list.
So I'm really looking forward to

2086
02:00:09,080 --> 02:00:12,560
the season.
But but yeah, I'm, I'm very

2087
02:00:12,560 --> 02:00:16,520
happy, very happy always to talk
to you guys, but also especially

2088
02:00:16,520 --> 02:00:20,160
happy to talk about this film.
Well, Brad, we are going to

2089
02:00:20,160 --> 02:00:24,120
pivot from talking about the
origins of the known universe to

2090
02:00:24,120 --> 02:00:27,280
the origins of the Marvel
Cinematic Universe next week.

2091
02:00:27,600 --> 02:00:31,120
Because we are looking at 2008's
Iron Man.

2092
02:00:31,440 --> 02:00:35,880
I cannot possibly think of
greater tonal whiplash between

2093
02:00:35,880 --> 02:00:37,000
two films.
Than the ones.

2094
02:00:39,280 --> 02:00:42,920
I can't wait to do our best
angry Jeff Bridges voices next

2095
02:00:42,920 --> 02:00:45,160
week.
So join us for that next week.

2096
02:00:47,200 --> 02:00:49,040
I want you to do your outro in
that voice.

2097
02:00:49,280 --> 02:00:53,120
Join us next week for Iron Man.
But until then, I'm Bob Book.

2098
02:00:53,600 --> 02:00:58,680
I'm Brad G.
And we will see you next time.