The Terminator / Nelson's Green Brier Tennessee Whiskey

0:00 Some whiskey Nation. Do you ever think about Awards course he do you drink whiskey and watch movies which means that, you know, that nothing is validated until a group of random people say hey we love what you're doing. The awesome thing about doc Swensons, whiskey is that it isn't just some group of schlubs that are given them Awards. They have been winning attention from some of the most important whiskey experts that you can imagine. They've been voted best distillery in Washington state by the New York International Spirits competition. They've been voted the best independent Pendant bottler by the Ascot Awards as well as the best finished bourbon from the Ascot awards for their La. Mente exploratory Cask their exploratory Cask series is where they release some of the most fascinating and adventurous experiments.

0:43 If you're ever checking out, docks line up and see a white label is a really good chance that that's the only time you'll see that bottle. So, make sure you snatch it up. Doc Swensons has been offering just phenomenal finished and Blended whiskies for quite some time. Now, you can find them online at Doc's, whisky.com. Mom. That's doccs whisky.com in 1984 director, James Cameron, and star Arnold Schwarzenegger gave the world a chaotic mashup of 80s, fashion, music and death. In 2023, we kick things off for the Year by visiting a Tennessee Distillery the film is The Terminator, the whiskey is Nelson's Greenbrier and War view them both.

1:27 This is the film and whiskey podcast. Welcome to the film and whiskey podcast, where each week, we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey. I'm Bob book, I'm Brad G. And this week, we are continuing our James Cameron miniseries with his 1984, classic the Terminator. Now, if you've been paying attention to the podcast for the last couple weeks, Brad shared a story about the root of his hatred for all.

2:14 Things 1980s. And it was revealed that apparently, this movie was responsible. This this is. I felt like your therapist. Like we had drilled down to the core of like what, what's been driving you for this whole length of time? And it's entire podcast. Alright, can you have for people who weren't listening to that episode? Can you give us a quick rundown of the history of your hatred of the 80s? And why this movie sparked it? I just remember as like probably a sixteen-year-old. I was sleeping over. My best friend's house. We were up late playing video games, and we turned on. We were just kind of cruising the TV and we found the Terminator and it's probably like, 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning Terminators on, we're like laughing at it, because it's ridiculous. And it's funny because watching it now, the seeds that really stuck out to me, was I remember when they were in the Techno, our club and just thinking to myself, the Is bad, the closer bad?

3:17 The music is bad. All of this is just bad. And I remember thinking, why does anybody like the 80s? It just didn't make any sense to me and ever since then I've just kind of expanded my dislike to many many aspect of the 80s. Now, this isn't to say that I'm a complete anti 80s person. There are things that were good that came out of the ATS. There is some good music. There are some good movies but overall I don't think the 80s were a great decade Bob. All right, so I have to follow up questions immediately. The first is correct me if I'm wrong here.

3:58 It sounds like what you're saying is not necessarily. I hated this movie so much, that it led to my hatred of the 80s. But is it, is it true that you would say me noticing these things about the 80s that then led to my hatred of the 80s originated here? Yes, 100% the second question. Then as a follow-up is like, did you hate this movie? I don't remember hating it. I mean, obviously, I have new thoughts now, that I've seen it again. I remember walking away from it thinking, man, that was kind of, it was an action e action, action movie? Sure. Yeah, I think this is one of those movies, Brad that as we get into it today, we're going to have to talk about the historical context a little bit.

4:43 And we're going to have to talk about just how does this movie hold up almost 40 years after it was released and after 40 Years of imitators, because this Is such an influential movie. It cast a very long Shadow over the genres of sci-fi and action and I think we've seen it done so consistently and with improved technology and and you know in some ways storytelling since then that it does make this movie kind of feel like a relic of its time. When in reality, this movie was way ahead of its time. So it's going to be interesting to kind of situate it in that context. But before we get into all that, we're going to jump into a segment that we call Brad explains.

5:23 And as we get there we want to remind you to please like subscribe follow and rate our podcast. If you are on Spotify, if you're on Apple podcast, leave us a five star review. It really helps us beat that algorithm and get higher up. The food chain in the podcast world. If you really like what we're doing, you can head over to our patreon page, patreon.com/lenguin whiskey where you can support our podcast at three different sponsorship, tears. All the information for that is at patreon.com slash film whiskey Brad. This is maybe my favorite segment of the show. I feel like we get to really put you on the spot. We put 60 seconds on the clock for you to break down the plot of a movie that you've just seen often for the first time now. This is not the first time, as you've said that you've seen this movie, but it's been a minute. Yeah.

6:13 Probably about half my life. Well, with that many years of wisdom added. I hope that this 60 seconds is enlightening for us Brad. You've got It on the clock and go to soldiers are sent from the future back in time to 1984. One of them is an Unstoppable. Cyborg, who is whose task to kill a woman named? Sarah Connor who is supposed to have a baby named. John Connor, who will teach the humans, how to fight back against the machines in the future. The other Soldier is a human who is sent to protect. Sarah Connor. Honor, and he ends up becoming John.

6:54 Connors baby daddy. Hmm. And that's pretty much it. That's the movie. That's, that's about it. The chocolate sex scene? Yeah, awkward. Sex scene will get into that too. But, all right, Brad, where do you want to start today? Because I've been trying to figure out how to approach these Cameron episodes as a guy who really likes and appreciates Cameron talking to you, who is in some ways, a Cameron agnostic. And, you know, I went to the Bree. I checked out three different books on James Cameron and kind of critical appraisals of his work. Looking at them through much different lenses and like super high-end academic assessments of James Cameron and if there's a recurring theme that I notice. It's that at the beginning of all these books, they all kind of acknowledge that Cameron's hard to pin down and that he doesn't really come across as an auteur in the way that we understand that word.

7:49 And yet, there are kind of consistent themes. There's Consistent genres that he likes to play in. So we know that from movie to movie, there are recognizable things about Cameron. Even if he doesn't have some of the visual trademarks that we would associate with other directors. So, I guess, what I'm asking is this, like, I don't know how to talk about Cameron in a way that seems deep or compelling, but I also don't want to sell him short. He's a really influential filmmaker and yet I look at the last two episodes. So is that we've done and they've probably been the two shortest episodes we've done in the last, you know, four months. And I have a feeling that if we wanted to, we could go like 45 minutes on the Terminator and be done for the day.

8:32 Well, here's my question for you then. Bob Cameron is a filmmaker. What do you think he did to like alter the direction of Cinema in the 80s and 90s with, you know, some of his early, big films like Terminator T2 Titanic? Like what do you think it was? About his craft and what he produced that kind of tip the needle and do a different direction. I don't know, man. You know, one of the things that they always say about Cameron is that if nothing else, he is a master technician, like he has an engineer's mind and, you know, there's a lot of a lot of his movies where the technology wasn't available for him to make the movie that he wanted to make.

9:12 And so he either sat on it for a couple of years or he just invented whatever camera was needed to make that movie, he's right. I mean, he really has contributed a lot on the technical side. Side. And I think he has this ability to know exactly what his movie is going to require technologically and therefore to know exactly what's needed from a budget and Technology standpoint. The. I mean he's like listen this movie is going to cost you 200 million dollars. But I'm going to give you something that the world has never seen before and hmmm. And he has a really good sense of exactly what needs to be shown and how to show it. And And there's very few things in a Cameron movie, that feel extraneous that feel like oh that that should have gotten left on The Cutting Room floor, he has Fantastic action set pieces in his mind, he films them beautifully.

10:04 And very you know we said last week in a very direct way he gets in he gets you out and it's like it's big-budget Blockbuster filmmaking but in a in the way he makes the movie it feels very economical. If that makes sense. Speaking of economical, our 47 minute movie. Thank you very much. Thank you. Jim Cameron. Big big fan? Yeah, I think it's interesting to think about Cameron in the terms of the larger cinematic world because when I when I look at the action films being made in the 80s, you really don't think of things like aliens or the Terminator, like the usually, they are so much easier and so much more ridiculous.

10:52 They often have very overt political themes. Underpinning them that when you get to Cameron's action movies, he he really does have a feel for pacing and a feel for his audience in the sense that he's not overt about the things he's trying to say, he's trying to give you a really fun action movie and, you know, maybe keep his his political stuff or his ideologies, a little bit Underground. And at the same time though, you definitely do start to see those seeds being sown here. I think, you know, we talked about this in Avatar. That one of the recurring themes of his movies, is this distrust of the military industrial complex that whether it's the military as the bad guys or the government as the bad guys or just, you know, the commingling of those two as the bad guy. It starts with this movie and he really develops that theme in the second Terminator movie.

11:50 But even here, you know, that there is an evil Corporation. Action that built something that got out of their control that caused essentially a nuclear Armageddon. And so yes, I agree with you. He is the kind of filmmaker that he's not. He's not making his political message, super overt or distracting you from the plot of the movie. But he definitely takes stances on certain things at least in a way that the common person would be like, yeah, like f the government or yeah, f, f, the military industrial complex. Like its political but it doesn't seem divisive if that makes sense. Yeah. No. It 100% does. And honestly, to be able to do that nowadays, it seems almost impossible.

12:37 The the political realm seems far more divisive than it used to be in the 80s. But yeah the fact that he was able to do that in the 80s which you know, had a lot going on Reagan, Cold War and and all sorts of stuff. So So yeah, the fact that he's able to do that is pretty pretty daggone impressive, Bob. Well, I think that's a really good segue into talking about 1984 the context into which this movie is released, because you're right as the 80s. Go on, this is a year before Rocky 4 comes out to put you in context. We did Rocky for last year on the show and between Rocky 1 and Rocky for those movies, getting more and more ridiculous, and more and more almost like, I don't know what the term is jingoistic.

13:22 Again, distich like hmm, you know, Rocky for is ridiculous and that becomes kind of the template for the action movie of the 80s. It's just like a really ripped dude on steroids with two machine guns, one in each hand, and he's covered in oil and he's shooting some nameless, enemy that looks foreign and like he's probably in a jungle somewhere whether it's Rambo or its predator or, you know, insert movie here, the action movies of the 80s, feel very much. Of a piece with each other and then you have these ones that really stick out from the bunch like Diehard, like aliens and like the Terminator. And the Terminator is a movie that uses the template honestly, when I was watching it through this time, I was like, oh, this is actually like a really small film like there's not many characters, it doesn't take place over more than like what two or three days.

14:15 And there's a few great Chase sequences but but the fate of the world, element of it doesn't feel As major as it comes to, in the second Terminator movie, what this really is is a slasher movie, this is Michael Myers. This is Halloween. It's a nameless, seemingly Invincible, bad guy. That kills all of this girl's friends, methodically one by one as it chases after her. And, you know, then there's the final girl. So, like it's very clear. Cameron was influenced by movies like Halloween and he makes a slasher movie. But he introduces these big time, Sci-fi and horror elements into it that I think is really, really smart way to do it. And I think that's the the key impact that Terminator has is that it seems like this is one of the first really raw gritty sci-fi yet, set on earth type films that would make me feel like some of the Marvel movies to come, you know, 30 years later that you're able to see The influence of a movie like this set on Earth, with real human characters and not a lot of sci-fi elements to the, to, the world that most of the film is capturing.

15:35 And I think that it's really interesting how it captured the Public's imagination because I think it felt a lot more relatable, than many other Sci-Fi movies that had come out to that point. Well, and I think like, one of the brilliant things about the movie, is that it uses the low-budget to its Advantage setting it in LA in the present day and doing it on a shoestring budget. Then you can make it seem like La is a much CD or place than it may have even been. And I'm sure that they're obviously places in l.a. that were that CD. I was gonna say. But the point of what Cameron's trying to do is he's trying to portray La in a way that would would make sense for the viewer to think. Oh, I guess this is a place that could be the site of nuclear fallout in five years or whatever you like whatever it is like, yeah. He sits situates you in this version of La where everything is supposed to look run down and grimy and gritty. And so the fact that he doesn't have a huge budget to work with in this movie, he covers for it by writing such a good story where the look and feel and grime Enos of the movie play into it.

16:42 Yeah and it really makes for an incredible setting. I think if there's if there's nothing else I can say for this movie, it's that Cameron like nails. The Idea of setting and giving you a geography and a the world to play in. As as Arnold just destroys everything, you know, I keep thinking about this movie in relation to Blade Runner. Have you ever seen the original Blade Runner? I it's been on my list, man. I really want to watch. It's a visually incredible movie and it's much more high-minded sci-fi than this. And it deals with really deep, deep themes, and philosophy.

17:22 And then you have a movie like Terminator, which is an action Chase movie, you know, wrapped inside a slasher film, that just kind of happens to have this sci-fi framing device around it and you're absolutely right. There's a, this is a completely different type of sci-fi to a movie like Blade Runner. It's I don't want to keep saying the word intimate, I don't want to call it an intimate story, but it's the scale of it is very small even if the stakes are very high and again it's one of those things where Cameron new, I'm probably not going to get a very big budget, but I have this great idea and he writes a story that can be executed with a seven million dollar budget which is essentially what he had a think.

18:02 It might have even been less than that like six point seven or something. But this is really one of the first movies that on a mainstream level that deals with the concept of time travel and and how messing with the timeline can mess up things in the future or in the past, you know, and yada yada. But like, this is before. Back to the Future, does that, you know, a couple years after this. And I think that people forget that when we go back and watch Terminator that there really wasn't these super convoluted time travel plot lines that we have. Now look at a movie like Avengers endgame, that movie would have been incomprehensible to audiences in 1984 and and Terminator for as simplistic as that time travel narrative. Seems.

18:46 Now, it really did kind of Kick this off. Yeah, I can't think of a ton of like time. Evil movies that that really sucked in the general public before. This one. I mean, when did Back to the Future come out, I think 85 or 86. Yeah. So it was, you know, at least a year after this. Yeah. See. Yeah. This seems like one of the one of the earlier, you know, Big Time, Sci-Fi movies, that dealt with time travel that to this day, I have friends who will talk about like the time travel in Terminator and Skynet and cyber And and like they're like into the world of the Terminator and that that I mean good for them I guess I do.

19:30 That's not the type of sci-fi that I get really crazy about but you know sure. And that's the thing too. Is like with with more successive sequels, it has become more convoluted because they have to make each movie consistent with, in whatever time line they're going for. But that's kind of why I love the Simplicity of this. It's just like, hey I got sent back in time. And you don't really realize it yet and neither do I. But I'm going to be the father of your child and that's why he sent me back and that's pretty much like the extent of the time travel as she asked him a couple questions about why couldn't you bring this thing back with you. So there's a few rules established but other than that all you really need to know is this bad thing is going to happen in the future.

20:11 And so the bad guys came back to the past to kill you before it can happen. So like it, I mean, it's just well, it's a great setup. I think one of my favorite things about the the Story that Cameron sets up is that the humans win the war like that. Like it's such, it's almost a throwaway line because it's not important to the plot of this film, but the idea that the humans go on to win because of her son, gives the entire Chase and you know her trying to escape a sense of meaning like if she's able to make it away from this Terminator then you know, she is the savior of humanity and I do Know why? But I, I just really loved the fact that Cameron just gives you that as an audience member like, I feel like nowadays, you would never get that piece of information because while we don't know if the humans when there are not because we need to make more movies, but in this Cameron's, like, no, like this is the savior of humanity.

21:12 Humans win. They destroy the time travel place. And so, you know, Reese has to save her and impregnate her, right? All right, man, let's talk performances here. And I, you know, we've gone 20 minutes without talking about the performances, but I think that's actually okay, because there's really only three main actors in this movie, you've got Linda Hamilton, as Sarah Connor, you've got Michael, biehn as Reese and you've got Arnold Schwarzenegger as the Terminator. And I thought you were going to say, Paul. Winfield is Lieutenant tracks. The funny thing is, I actually did want to bring them up Paul Winfield and then Lance Henriksen, who is a James Cameron regular and who we really didn't talk about that much in Aliens. But Is fantastic in that movie and actually thinkable actually think he's really good here too as the comic relief element of the movie really good.

22:00 I don't know that I need to say more about them but it's worth mentioning. Yeah, no I really liked Henrickson in this, I really liked Winfield a lot. I thought he he brought a sense of Gravitas to the comedic role that I don't know, I just really appreciated, he had a he had a solidness about him. There you go. I'm going to say that about you. When we turn in podcast episode, that's like a 7 out of 10. Yeah. Brad you have a solidness about you today. What did you what did you think about Earl Bowen? As the the psychiatrist if there was anybody in this movie that I wanted to see get killed? Yeah you know like a that you dude so I guess that means he played that role really well.

22:52 All right, let's get into our three main performers here, I guess. Let's start with Michael biehn, because even though he is kind of the lead of the movie. He's also in a lot of ways, the least important character in the movie or at least I guess I could say the least iconic, right. Sarah Connor has become an iconic character in cinema. And obviously the Terminator is an iconic character and so I feel like poor Reese gets left in the dust a little bit here, but I mean he does he does get the famous line. Come with me if you want to live, right? But then Arnold steals it from him in the second movie and makes it his own. So it's like a row. Yeah. Yeah, he has. He has nothing in his in his side of the column here. It probably sounds a lot better coming out of Arnold's. Mouth, what did you think of his performance Brad Arnold? No, Michael, biehn, Michael biehn. I thought he was fine.

23:46 Yeah, I think that my favorite part of his performance. Is that you can tell that he's seen some stuff in his life, you know what I mean? Like, that that is easily the best part of his performance. The fact that he takes this so daggone, seriously, tells you how terrible it has been in the future. Even if Cameron didn't give you the flashbacks, / flash-forwards right now, I don't know what to call him in a time travel. You'd still Get the impression. Even if he didn't include those as what you're saying, is exactly. You would get the sense that it gets pretty, pretty bad for the humans in the future.

24:31 And it's all because of how seriously he takes his performance. I think his performance is at his best when he has less dialogue to work with and I don't necessarily think that's because he's bad at delivering dialogue. Like I thought his chemistry in aliens with Sigourney Weaver was 10 times better than his chemistry. Here with Linda Hamilton. And a lot of that is just the character in the way he's being directed to give those like kind of ridiculous lines in this movie. But the physicality of the performance, I thought was the best part of it that opening scene where he's being chased by the cops into like the department store and and putting on different kinds of clothes. And it's pretty much a silent sequence but it's really compelling and that whole escape from the police.

25:17 They set it up in a way that you can tell That Arnold's character seems much more Invincible than this guy does, but if you don't know the story of the film until that first flashback or flash-forward, where you can see that, he is a human fighting against these machines, you don't know if they're sending two machines from the future to kill Sarah Connor or you know, one really strong man and one somewhat weaker, man. And so you see him as maybe a threat and yet there's still something about that performance and the I like the look on his face of getting chased like he's getting chased by the hounds, right. And it's so compelling that even if you're not sure, if he's a bad guy, he sucks you into the movie and you're kind of on his side, even while kind of keeping him at a distance. I think it's a really great balancing act that he's able to pull off in those early scenes.

26:11 And I think it's something that they, they kind of, you know, rip off on in The Matrix that the opening scene of The Matrix you know, by, by all Means Trinity should be the bad guy. And yet she you can just tell, by the way, she's acting that. Like no, there's something up here and she's actually, you know, our early protagonist in that film. I think it's like comparison. Yeah, yeah. That was something that hit me. Honestly, you can't watch the Terminator without thinking about the Matrix on some level, there's a decent amount of similarities there. Alright, let's move into Arnold Schwarzenegger as the Nader.

26:51 This is obviously, he was like the most famous person attached to this movie, but this was one of his very first film's. He had made Conan the Barbarian which was a big box office success and Cameron really wanted to get him in this movie, but Schwarzenegger wanted to play res. When he first read the script, he thought he was going to be the good guy, and Cameron had to talk him into being the bad guy in the movie. And there's a very famous story where, you know, Cameron and his producer, take Schwarzenegger out to lunch and the objective of the lon He has to convince him to be the bad guy in this movie and while they're at lunch, they realize that Cameron forgot his wallet at home. And so you know, it's very unprofessional to not be able to pay for your stars meal and they thought they just kind of like wait it out till Arnold left will Arnold, just kind of like held court for hours and hours and eventually they all had to leave and Cameron had to admit that he didn't have the money and but shorts and Egger to his credit was like, I got this, I've been there before, I know what it's like I've At this.

27:51 And they said that was actually like a really great bonding moment. And without that happening, Schwarzenegger might never have trusted Cameron, you know, to make something out of his performance as a bad guy. I think it's, I mean, it's a cool story because there's not much to say about the performance. It is, it's so iconic in the history of Cinema, and it's not really acting. It's just Arnold with a Blank Stare, being as robotic as possible, and yet there's still. So it's just still so cool to watch. Watch him do that. Yeah, well, I mean he, you know, he took a whole month just to work with weapons to get to the point where he could assemble and disassemble them blindfolded. He got to the point where he could use pretty much any weapon in either hand without making it look awkward. And like he, like he put in a heck of a lot of work to get to the point where he could convincingly be robotic in every single thing that he did in the.

28:51 Film and truly it is really really impressive. Yeah, totally agree. Alright and then you've got Linda Hamilton who I think I'm just going to be frank about here and say is way better in Terminator 2 than she is in Terminator. And I don't think that means that she does a bad job here. I also don't really necessarily think it means that her character is badly written here. It's just that you haven't seen her. Her live-in to the quote-unquote destiny of like, where the Sarah Connor. Character goes in the second movie, she's just figuring things out and she's on the run and she's trying to survive, and she is very much.

29:33 The female protagonist of a slasher movie here, even though I buy her fear, I just don't know that there's a lot there to her character or two her performance of it for me to like, spend a ton of time on know. I'm 100% with you, I, I That she has moments where when she's asking questions and like learning things about the world is when I think she's at her best she has an ability to engage with the characters around her that is really meaningful. Whereas when she's just kind of on the run or she's by herself she just kind of has a blankness to her face. That doesn't convey quite as much as I would want it to. But for the most part, Part if she's ever in conversation with someone else, I really love what Linda Hamilton is doing. All right, man.

30:28 I think we're in a really good spot here to take a break and try this Nelson's. Greenbrier, what do you say? Let's get to it. All right. So, today we are trying Nelson's Greenbrier Tennessee. Whiskey Brad. This is a two-year aged stated. I guess it's not a two-year aged stated. It is a straight whiskey that is aged for two years minimum at 91 proof. It clocks in at and a pretty low price point now. Nelson's Greenbrier has been Making Waves lately in the world of Tennessee whiskey. They just released a couple new Expressions this year, one of which we tried on a bonus. So Brad, what was that called?

31:12 It's called Nelson Brothers, classic bourbon, I think and we really like that, like, it was really, really good. And I say that because I originally picked up a bottle of this Nelson's Greenbrier Tennessee, whiskey thinking like, oh this looks cool and I like Tennessee, whiskey, and we'll see where it goes. And I thought it was really, really bad and it was, it was slated for an episode earlier this season. But then the people well, at Nelson's, Greenbrier reached out to us and said, like, hey, do you want to try this new product? And I was like, sure. And I was like, well, I can't put this review out where I think their whiskey is bad before they send me the new stuff. And so we tried the new stuff and thank God.

31:52 Like it was really, really good, but now I'm like, all right, we need to go back and revisit this because I don't it's been so long since I've tried it. I'm like, I don't remember what I disliked about it. But now that they at least know that we raved about one of their expressions, I'll feel better, if I still don't like this. This one, yeah, I was going to say I've already drank this. I've given my scores suffice to say, it's young. Hmm. So, Yeah, all right. Well let's let's jump into it then because I just poured it out in front of me, it's been breathing for a couple minutes but I have not retried this for months and months and months. So as you give your nosing notes, Brad I'll take a with here.

32:36 Yeah, on the nose. This is very very grain forward very yeasty almost like doughy there's a little bit of sweetness there. There's some caramel it almost turns into like a Ali young, peppery, kind of note, but overall, it's a decent nose. I'll give it a 7 out of 10, but it's pretty young. It is pretty young. And honestly, the grain that's sticking out to me, the most here is the barley. That's in this, this almost smells like a really. I don't know, lower shelf blended Scotch to me in a lot of ways like it definitely is in. It has the sweetness, you know, from the corn of a Tennessee whiskey. I know there's wheat in this as well. That's probably playing into it a little bit but I was really shocked at how much The Barley was jumping out of this one at me.

33:26 You're absolutely right. There's not a ton of complexity, I got some green apple on this which I really liked there is some general, like waves of vanilla that are coming through General waves, but it does smell young and it smells really grain forward. I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be hopeful about it, I'll give it a six out of ten on the nose. Yeah, once we get into the palette, Young grainy to me. It almost had like a corn starch kind of flavor going on and I got a little bit of spiciness. There was some clove going on for me but it definitely took a bit of a step back. I'll give it a six out of ten Bob.

34:08 Oh this is significantly better than it was when I tried it the first time. Do you remember when we had a certain bourbon sent to us that we always use as our kind of Benchmark for Bad Bourbon and it's not just mark it and if not Benchmark and there was like that that rotten wet cardboard Funk coming off of it. Yeah very specific. I remember it. First time I had this that was there and I was like, oh my gosh, this is awful. It's not there anymore. I am very happy to say but I'll tell What it still tastes like Scotch to me a little bit. This tastes like if you took a lower shelf Bourbon and mixed it with lower shelf Scotch, you were like hey what does Cutty Sark taste? Like if I put it in my Benchmark Bourbon and that's kind of what I'm getting on this unless I'm drinking something that you're not.

35:02 But I've got my bottle that says, Nelson's Greenbrier I like it. It doesn't have those notes for me, that I was getting the first time and that is a huge relief. Not great, it's young but I'm still going to give it a six out of ten here. Yeah and the finish I'll also give a 6 out of 10. It get Sookie. There's some pepper. It definitely retains a really yeasty doughy feel to it. Kind of like literally like if you just took a little bit of a bite of raw, do you know it's fine? Yeah, I mean this is a good mixer. I don't think that any of the flavors are bad. It's just fine and every once in a while you're like oh that's stuck out. Little bit and like, I don't know what to call it a sour note in this, it's just not aged long enough, it's not well-rounded enough. I do think you could throw this in with some coke. You probably be pretty happy with it. So yeah on the finish I'll give it a, I don't know, a five and a half out of ten.

36:00 Yeah. And then the balance it stays consistent throughout but it's consistently met. So I'll give it a six and a half. Yeah, I'll stick it a 6 here. I think where I'm going to punish this. The most is on the value category. I think in the state of Ohio, this clocks in at around thirty dollars, Brad, right at $30 Bob, there you go and $30. This is, this is overpriced, there's a lot of things you could get for this price point. I mean, honestly, you could pick up a bottle of like Maker's Mark for less than this and I think Maker's Mark is better than this because it doesn't have that youthful note to it. It's a, it's a craft Distillery. This is one of their initial releases and its really young, as a result of that.

36:42 I will say that that Nelson Brothers whatever it's called Nelson Brothers, classic or whatever. Really really good much better than this. If you can find that on the Shelf, I would pick that up in a heartbeat. But for me, the value on this is like a four and a half out of ten. Man. Yeah. See I would say putting it at $30. I feel like most small distilleries. It starts off at a minimum of like 45 or 50. That's true. So, yeah, that's right. I think this is like based on that standard, it's an okay value. I'll give it a six out of ten on value II. Think it's okay but honestly I wouldn't recommend this Bob. All right so what's that bringing you out to here Brad? I'm gonna 31.5.

37:22 Alright I'm at a 28 so we're not that far off from each other. We're at a 59 And a half out of 100 or a twenty nine point seven five out of 50. You know generally anything below that 30 Mark it's pretty obvious that we're not going to recommend. I don't really recommend trying. I definitely don't recommend buying it's not the worst whiskey that we've had on this show by a long shot. But even from this Distillery, there are better options. 100% Bob. Yeah, I'm very much so with you there. All right. That was relatively painless. I was seriously, I was thinking this was going to be like one of the worst whiskies I've ever had, like a 20 out of 50. It was much much better than that. So, all right Brad.

38:02 Let's get back into talking about the Terminator. What do you say now? All right, everybody that was Nelson's Greenbrier a whiskey. We are okay with being done talking about, it wasn't that bad but honestly like it wasn't that good. Yeah. That's the thing is like, you know, if, if I was the marketing team for that brand, I'd be like that's your slogan. There, Nelson's Greenbrier Tennessee. Whiskey. It's not that bad. It's TS whiskey. Yeah, seriously, I don't I don't want to alienate fans of this Distillery because what they're doing with their newer Expressions is a hue, really a huge step up from this. Yeah.

38:48 That know that what we had earlier this year really was from what I remember like a 38 to 41 out of 50, type 0 type of whiskey. So yeah. Yeah, Nelson is doing some great stuff. Just not this one, just not this one. You know what else is doing some great stuff. Bob me with two facts in a falsehood. Yep. With your wind too. Make your losing streak last week. Brad. I know that I've made this comparison before but I really do feel like the Cleveland Browns in some ways because I win just enough to give my fans hope but with no real hope of doing anything in the postseason. You know, ya know, that that totally makes sense, man, I've been there many many years, so all right, this year included, for those of you who are not initiated two facts. In a falsehood is the segment of the podcast, where Brad presents three items to me.

39:42 All of them asked, Fact, one of which is a complete fabrication that he made up on his own and you've been doing a real good job of fabricating this season Bradley. I mean honestly I feel like you're just under 500 which I mean the goal of any competitive Endeavor is you know, to make sure that the fans get some wins some losses. So I think we're, I think we're doing a great job here, Bob, alright. Well let's see, if I can keep my hot streak of one win going this week. Hit me with your two facts in a falsehood Brad. Fax number one before, Arnold Schwarzenegger was given the titular role o.j. Simpson was considered for the role but the producers feared, he was too nice to be taken seriously as a cold-blooded killer, yikes.

40:33 Fact, number two, the semi that runs over the Terminator. At the end of the film is the exact same make and model. As the toy truck that the Terminator runs over at the start of the film. Hm. Fax number three, the Hunter Killer Robots were originally called select destruction infiltrators, but had their name changed because of Reagan's Strategic Defense Initiative also known as SDI. Oh that's interesting. I will say I have heard number one before whether or not, that's a Hollywood legend or not. I I'm 99.9% certain that you didn't make it up for this purpose so we're going to consider that a fact so that leaves us with two or three and three sounds pretty plausible.

41:22 But so does, so does to, I think that would be kind of kind of cool. A little cool, little call back the Strategic Defense Initiative. Did it start as early as 83-84 that? I don't know. But it sounds pretty cool. So I am going to say to is the falsehood and I'm basing that on nothing but that's just my gut. Bob your gut has led you astray let's three. The Horseman three was man the Strategic Defense Initiative did come out in 1983 though. Okay. So so the timing was there. It's just you know you're really good at making a pretend facts about history. I did a couple 10 facts about history. Yeah the the semi that runs him over is actually the same make and model as the toy at the start of the film. That's really funny, isn't it?

42:16 There's a there's a big semi chase in Terminator 2 and now I'm really interested to see if Cameron brought back the same type of semi truck again in TT, that honestly would be really funny. All right, man, where do you want to go from here? I think we've we've talked about the historical context. We've talked about the long shadow that it cast Over sci-fi in the Years following it. What do you feel is left? Unsaid so far Brad? Well I mean the most Important thing with any action film is the action. Mmm. So like, let's talk about the cinematography. Let's talk about the sound design. Like, let's let's get into what makes this really, you know, hour and 30 minute, Chase movie, so great and so memorable.

43:02 Yeah, I think that's really good place to start here. Because from here on out, Cameron's ideas, get bigger, and Bolder and more, ambitious and more sprawling. Even aliens compared to. This is like I can't believe that there were no movies in between Terminator and aliens from yeah director standpoint. I know he got a much bigger budget for aliens but just the scope of that movie, it seemed within two years like, he went from being a fairly new filmmaker to a seasoned Pro, and I think he directs the hell out of this movie, but that movie just seems like so much more of a huge undertaking than this one. Did I think the action is directed really well, and Movie.

43:44 I think that final Chase sequence is really really well done but it's kind of also. Like I've seen James Cameron action for 40 years after this movie and so this does feel like the most rudimentary version of that. It doesn't mean it's bad but it's just kind of I feel like I have to grade on a curve a little bit. Yeah. I mean for me it's moments like when Arnold walks into the police station talks to the clerk for a minute, tells him famously that he'll be back. And then a car drives through the window, like he comes back. Yeah, and heat a 100% comes back and for me, I honestly think that the police station is is one of the best scenes of the film because there's so much chaos going on and Cameron just chooses perfectly who to shoot from the perspective of like, you get moments from Sarah Connors perspective.

44:45 You get moment from Traxler and, you know, some of the other police officers perspectives And then you get some moments from Arnold's perspective, as he's just mowing down these police officers. And I think that it creates just enough chaos, but he gives you just enough information about the layout of the station that it makes for an incredibly compelling sequence of violence. One of the things that I remember talking about when we did Titanic was that on that watch through for the podcast never before had the loss of human life. In that movie hit me so hard it hit me the way that the D-Day sequence in Saving Private Ryan did. Yeah and I really felt like Cameron who is a guy who loves violence in his movies is really underrated at the way that he uses the impact of the violence to inform the story in so many of these 80s movies.

45:44 There are guys getting mowed down by machine guns left and right, you know, even look at die-hard diehards, a great action movie. But the deaths in Die. Hard are more like that was awesome. Then. Oh my gosh, like I feel the impact of the loss of this life and when the Terminator goes into the police station, obviously it says something about the character that even the most heavily armed building in town, is no match for this thing but it's also like the way that the Terminator. So coldly and easily dispenses with These two top characters that we've really come to be fond of and it doesn't feel like Cameron's just throwing them away. It feels like, wow, this loss of life is really profound and even though this is an incredibly violent gun driven sequence, I feel like it was really necessary for the story that like they never just feels like Cameron loves. Cameron is in love with guns and so he has to have guns in his movie, like the impact of that.

46:49 The brutal violence is felt and I think you see it from his first real movie, which is this one. And I think that what it does for the story is really, really great as well in that there are all these barriers between the Terminator and Sarah Connor, and they are all slowly Stripped Away until it's just her against him. And that, you know, she has to finish him off, right? And so, I think that the death of Traxler and I can't Remember Lance henrickson's character's name but but their deaths really show like it's now just recent her against him. And if we're being honest, they have no chance and I think that's that's what really makes that that sequence really impactful and, you know, not just from the violence that it shows. But from a story perspective of moving the story forward and I think that's the other thing.

47:45 I like about what Cameron does here, is that Every bit of violence is so purposeful and gets the Terminator. One step closer to his ultimate goal of killing Sarah, Connor and even as it strips away resources from him, you never are in any doubt that he's going to win. Mmm. And so that's that's what makes, you know, her Victory. So meaningful and going along with your point about how each of those layers of protection are stripped away from her. I think Cameron does a really good job, especially towards the end of the movie with the reaction shots that he films of Michael, biehn and Linda Hamilton. Where every time the Terminator is still alive, they cut back to them.

48:30 And it's this look of Terror. But also this look of defeats like, no, no, I thought we had it this time and, you know, it happens when he rises from the, wreckage of the semi-truck. It happens after re sticks like a stick of dynamite inside of him and he blows up and then just the Torso Was still Crawling After her, it really hammers home, this idea like you said that he will never be stopped and he's gonna win. And I think that those little human touches are what really help to elevate this above. Just this is a Michael Myers movie. But Michael Myers is a robot this time. I will say, probably the most obvious slasher horror film part of this is when Arnold goes Goes and kills, Sarah, Connors roommate and her boyfriend.

49:22 Mmm, because dude, the moment when she walks back to the room and the boyfriend just gets slammed through the door and it's just blood everywhere and she screams and throws your sandwich everywhere. It's incredible. It's a great scene. All right, before we get out of here, Brad, let's go in a little bit on the 80s things that you hate about this movie. I want to talk about the score because the From this movie is reused in Terminator 2. In that movie there's much more of an orchestra playing it than just like a synthesizer and I know that you very famously hate synth music. So I guess I'm wondering like how do you do you appreciate the actual music of the movie?

50:07 Or is it ruined by the synth? The scent of it all. Yeah, I don't like the music in this. It frustrates me. I You know what it is about synthesizer music that I don't like, but there's something grading about it that just never has appealed to me, so yeah, no. You definitely hit the nail on the head. It's far as one of the things I don't like about this. I will say, I'm not going to hold the fact that the Terminator was made in the 80s against it as a movie like, you know, especially the for me the famous scene when they're in the Tecna war-- and just 80s, fashion is on Full display 80s.

50:53 Music is blaring and I hate all of it. Like, if they had made that movie in the 90s than it, would have been a 90s Club if they'd made it in the 60s, then, you know, they're the 70s. They would have been playing the Bee Gees. So, like, I recognize that, I don't like the 80s culture around it, but I'm not going to hold that against Cameron or the movie. Yeah. Because, you know, they made it an 80s. So sure you use 80s stuff. That sucks. The only, the only time the synth really pulled me out of the movie was the very last scene where there were, he's like crawling after her through that machine shop because this, it gives a different.

51:34 It's a different theme than the rest of the movie and I love that very mournful, almost military like Taps kind of theme that it's the da da da da da da. That's it's so good. But then you get to the end of the movie and it's just a synth. It's like digging it. Did it did it, did it in a duck, Tikka Tikka Tikka and I'm like yeah this is the worst. This is not a suspenseful at all. So I do think there are elements of the 80s of it all that due date the movie probably most famously. You know he works with some of the best VFX artists of the time doing stop motion for the Terminator at the end of the movie. But you know I mean it's really cool. Stop motion.

52:17 It looks janky like I just as much as I want to appreciate the craft that goes into stop motion animation. It is very herky-jerky. It doesn't look smooth. And I think that like the the actual robot that they built that's like crawling after her. At the end of the movie, looks fantastic. Like I really think that that skeleton looks great. But you can tell every time that it goes to a stop motion model and it looks really bad. Yeah, it's moving. Yeah, yep, yep. And that, it's stuff like that, that makes it difficult to really for me. Give this movie a really high score at like, I think they did the best with what they had to work with. But there are some pretty obvious elements for this me, that, that dates, this movie, and not in a good way. Well, and I think, the one thing we have to keep in mind, is that This is one of the most influential movies of the 80s and so it has become one of the most famous movies of the 80s. And so, from a 40-year distance, we look back on those special effects thinking, oh, that must have been the best that they had in 1984, and that's actually not true, right? This was a low-budget movie.

53:27 So Cameron did the best that he had with a very small budget in 1984. If this had had a big budget, I think the special effects will hold up much better than they did. And so Not only was Is he limited by the technological limitations of the time but he also had to take like the best. He could get for a 7 million dollar budget and I think when you take that into consideration, he had a lot working against him to pull off this story and he does a pretty damn good job with it. Well honestly I think we've said about everything there is a say Bob, I'm very curious what movie you're going to pair this with for let's make it a double. Yeah, I think it's it's hard to not just pair it with t 2 because What we're doing next week. And that's why I said, I structured it this way because we looked at Avatar, which is the first in a series of Cameron films.

54:18 We looked at aliens, which is a sequel that Cameron made and now we get to look at what happens when Cameron makes the original and its Sequel. And so it's really hard to separate Terminator from Terminator 2. In my mind it's kind of like Godfather and Godfather to. They tell such a complete story, so I guess I am kind of going to take the cop out. This Like Brad and just make it a double with T2 because there's no movie that would pair better than that. One. Well II, guess I just won't give an answer that if that's the only movie you can pair with. The only valid answer is the one I Getta. Honestly, Bob, I'm gonna pick another movie. That's about a Chase from a similar era. It's almost a decade.

55:03 Later I'm gonna pair this with the fugitive. Oh, first of all, how good is The Fugitive? Well, I don't know how. We haven't done it on the pop. Yeah, it's coming around soon. That's a great movie. Yeah. I feel like the more I become a dad to, like, it's a movie that I remember every dad liking in the 90s I was like it's a good movie and now that I'm a dad I'm like this is the greatest thing I've ever seen. It's so so good. So yeah I think the fugitive thematically with the idea of the Chase and trying to figure things out as you go and the fact that it's just it's the Harrison Ford be an awesome. I am going to pair it with the fugitive all right man let's get final scores on the Terminator.

55:47 This is a movie that I think is probably more important than it is great. Like it's a well-made movie. I respect the hell out of it. I respect that Cameron did so much with so little and his ambition and his ability to maximize every penny of the budget. In terms of, what goes up on the screen is evident from day one here, but almost every other Cameron movie. In my mind is better than this. Like I I could I could go back and forth on Avatar in this but again Avatar is like you can laugh at how silly it seems but you can see every penny of that movie up on the screen there too and that movie.

56:27 Yeah, has 200 million dollars behind it. Where is this had seven? I'm going to give it an 8 out of 10 that feels kind of low but I just I haven't gotten all the way through Terminator 2 again yet, but that movie just I think it really does affect my opinion of this one. And I like that one better. So this is an 8 out of 10 for me. I'll give it a seven and a half. Oh wow. I really thought you'd be higher on it based on what how you talked about it till the whole day. Yeah in the end I think it's still in the vein of a cheesy 80s action movie and it's well done, it's well made but there's not enough here for me to really want to give it an eight eight and a half out of ten.

57:12 I get that. Alright so there you have it. 95 from us, I believe on IMDb This Is Still rocking an eight point one, which is really impressive. But we'd like to know what you think we're talking about Terminator 1 this week. So let us know the original Terminator. How does it hold up in your mind, you can find us on our social media channels, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, or Tick-Tock at film whiskey. Or you can join us on our Discord. We are on there every single day talking to you guys, the fans of the film and whiskey podcast. So if you want to join the conversation, There and talk about Terminator. You can do that by following the link at the end of every one of our show notes. Next week, we will be joined by film critic and historian, Ian Nathan who literally wrote the book on James Cameron, to finish out our series with Terminator 2, Judgment Day.

58:03 I am freaking pumped for that one. Cannot wait. But until then, I'm Bob book, I'm Brad G and we'll see you next time.