The Silence of the Lambs / Old Tub feat. It's Bourbon Night

0:00 In 1991 director, Jonathan Demi and star. Jodie Foster introduced the world to the psychological Thriller focused on the deranged Mind of a killer in 2021. The Jim Beam company takes a regional product. National the film is Silence of the Lambs, the whiskey is old tub and we'll review them both. This is the film and whiskey podcast. Welcome to the film and whiskey podcast, where each week, we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey. I'm Bob book, I'm Brad G and this week we are looking at the 1991 Best Picture Winner.

0:56 The Silence of the Lambs Brad. This is kind of lining up at a perfect time for us. We are in the middle of women's History Month. This movie has one of the best female protagonist of all time, and it's also kind of kick starting a new series for us where we're going to be looking at Best Picture winners. So we've selected a number of Best Picture winners in the lead-up to next month's. Oscars, I'm super pumped to use this movie as our Bridge movie to talk about today, you know, Bob, I'm just going to be upfront and honest. This is one of those movies. Is that when you were a young lad in the early to mid-1990s, you would be perusing the, the walls of a of your local Blockbuster Blockbuster. For those of you young enough was a place where you went to like, get movies and you gave them money and you brought them home for like a week.

1:47 Is that a good explanation? Yeah, I think it is. But yeah, I would go to Blockbuster and I would see this movie on the shelves and there was just something. Thing about it, that was absolutely terrifying to like five six seven year, old me. And I don't know if that horror has ever left me and I've like refused to watch this movie. So I just want you to know that, I still haven't watched it and we're just going to make stuff up. Please, please tell me that's a joke. Bob, the best part is that there's a part of you that really is wondering. Oh absolutely, I'm Brad, you know. I did watch the movie for this.

2:30 I just want you to know how much I love you. This podcast and filming whiskey Nation enough to overcome this deep-seated childhood fear. Well, I'll tell you what, man, it is a justifiable fear because there are elements of this movie, that are absolutely terrifying. It is one of only a handful of movies that could be considered a horror movie that have ever been nominated for Best Picture Brad, we're going to get into it. We're going to break it all down. We're going to talk about your first time watching this movie, but in order to do that, that we need to welcome in some special guest hosts. We have Chad and Sarah with us from the YouTube channel. It's bourbon night. Chad and Sarah. How are you guys doing? We're doing great. Pretty good.

3:10 Thank you so much for being along on the ride watching this. Highly uncomfortable film. I'm really excited to see how we talk about this one, as we kind of intro the movie. Before we talk about anything else. What made you choose this movie to come on our show and talk about today? That's a good question. I think your question. I mean I shocker love serial killer information. I don't know, like documentaries. So Shane she learned refers to them as how to's? Well, I'm sure. Really is more of a how to not not be kidnapped and have your skin worn as a suit. That's more of those live a little over how to Amman typically used formation.

3:58 Yeah, these are things. Honestly, I was a little worried that you were just going to leave it at. I love cereal. Oh, I love serial killers. That's why she married me. I still have even been caught. No, I just, I find, I think it's, you know, some people will be, like, why are you scared of monster movies but not serial killer movies and I'm like, I don't know why. I think I find there's comfort in like seeing it play out this real life threat and like, hmm, think seeing how things happen and thinking like, how would I defend against that? It's almost soothing Away. No, that's probably weird. No, it's cathartic to think about how you defend your site. As I get out, I'm trying to prepare myself, right? Little sure toolkit Chad, why did you pick this movie?

4:39 I, I was not. What do you want? Yes, exactly. I was kind of, like, A League of Their Own. That's fun. Like, like a good husband. I was like, absolutely not. We need dark and I'm here. I can't remember the list now, but wasn't like Wally on there or something. Oh yeah. And I was, I was my second choice like, oh, Wally. The League of Their Own, you know? And it's there was like, sounds of lamps. It's like, yeah, sounds good definitely. That's the one. So Sarah, you're like, movie, preferences are either serial killer movies or Pixar. Correct. Now, when they can combine the two, that is it. That is the next Oscar winner. That's a day. We're looking forward to. I mean, I'd watch it.

5:22 Absolutely, it would be great. All right guys, so can you break down for us a little bit about, you know, the the Should have the YouTube channel, maybe how you guys met some of our listeners. I'm sure are familiar with you. You have an incredibly successful YouTube channel. I am a huge fan. I've been subscribing for a couple of years now but but yeah, absolutely. Thank you. I have to thank you even before you get started on your intro for introducing us to the phrase Kentucky hug, which is something that we have wholeheartedly stolen from you. And it is, it's really, really helpful for us to use as we talk about tasting whiskey. So what? Thank you. For the Kentucky hug, first of all? Yeah, absolutely. We will Kentucky hug.

6:02 Anyone who wants to be Kentucky hooked? We can't take credit for it. Credit goes to Fred. No from Jim Beam, but yeah, we definitely can take a little bit of credit for spreading it around. It's meant to be shared. Yeah, absolutely. Had, I'm curious. It would your serial killer named be the Kentucky hugger? Yeah, I got a pretty good bear hug. So I would you know, start off. Ice and they were like, oh, this is a little little too tight there buddy, little uncomfortable. And then, if you like help and then it's lights out, we are off to a great start you guys. I'm not sure how I feel about that. So walk us through like the creation of the YouTube channel and how you guys came to be where you are today. Oh goodness, I'll try to make it the I tend to go off on tangents so I'll try to make it The Abridged version but we're both working.

6:56 I was working in marketing. Apartment for a restaurant group that was opening a bourbon bar. So I was getting really interested in Bourbon because I was like Hey I've lived in Kentucky my whole life. Now I'm working on this bar that's going to have 200 plus Bourbons. I could probably couldn't even name 20. So I was like, okay, I'm starting to get more into bourbon. We were shooting a video for that particular bar that was opening. Chad, worked on the video crew. We met, we did a couple different shoots over the course of a few months. So we started hanging out and In our own bourbon nights as friends. We kept it as friends for a while then we realized as we were doing these bourbon, I swear we do tastings and flights and things like, wait a second, Chad you're in video production, I'm in marketing, our powers combined. We could create a YouTube channel, you'll be unstoppable. Know, it was really more just like, Hey, we're doing this, why not try to make something fun out of it, even if it's just a hobby that is for ourselves, we never really expected and much too.

7:58 Come of it. I mean, I remember one day we were like, can you imagine if we ever had like a thousand subscribers? Like, what if we read 10,000 subscribers? That would be crazy. That's not even real. And now here we are. Yeah, it's been, it'll be five years. This June that we've been working on the channel. And, I mean, it still feels new though. Feels like we just started it yesterday, and it also feels like we've been doing it for forever because the community is so amazing, and they just feel like family. And I can't imagine, you know, doing anything else to be honest. True. I had always kind of been looking well, not always for, for a couple years. I had had the idea of a YouTube channel in my head and I was kind of looking for the right person to do it along with me, because I knew that I wasn't going to do it solo scouted me. Yeah.

8:45 So then when Sarah came along, I was like, ah, this we met for a reason. Yes, let's let's do this. Let's do this YouTube thing so it just made sense you know. Of course we spent a lot of time together and there was bourbon Moved, you know what trips travel and just got to know each other over time and you know eventually Chiapas like so do you want to get married or what? Yes, I just came down to the courthouse. Then no. I mean, I definitely thought about it but no we ended up doing the whole big thing and it was like, what the fall of 2019. So literally one of the last big events that we did before we got out in under the wire and right? Yeah.

9:28 Yeah logs and say you guys are located in Lexington. One of the my favorite weddings that I've ever officiated was right in Triangle Park. Right downtown. It was like in the middle of December, at midnight and I did a wedding for battle and there's like 50 people there and it was a blast, that's awesome. So I will say, what, what Brad was talking about is a perfect segue because as I was reading your background and kind of the Inception of this, this YouTube channel. I realized that we actually had a ton of overlap because Brad, And I were actually going to grad school in Wilmore while you guys were starting this Channel. And so when I was reading like, you know, some interviews that Sarah had done where she talked about starting this bourbon bar was like, oh my gosh, that has to be 0, BC kitchen, right?

10:13 And and then I realized that was the first bourbon bar I ever went to that was where I kind of fell in love with bourbon and I remember going there with my wife and looking at the awesome b-roll that was playing on the TVs. And and now knowing that that was Chad Film that. And that Sarah, you were like launching that bourbon bar. Like that's, it's just incredible to me. Like, I used to go there as a poor grad student, and wait until the kitchen closed at 10:00 and asked them if they had any more, you know, bacon with peanut butter to dip it in and they would just give it to me and it was like, heaven. So, I feel like I have to express my gratitude for that place to both of you for making it so special to me.

10:54 Well, they're not supposed to feed Strays know. That's so nice to hear, you know, that's it. Yeah, it's sometimes it, I forget until we take people back there when they come in town to visit because like we just don't get out that much anymore. Sure ably. But whenever we do end up going there and I see that video. I mean it's definitely gives you the feels because I'm like well this is where it all began. Yeah, we okay, if it hadn't been for that place we probably never would have met so probably not. That's awesome. It's very special. It's wild because it really speaks to like what the heart of the Community is all about that. It is all about bringing people together, to share great experiences and sometimes, you never know, it leads to love and sometimes it leads to us talking about serial killer movies tag on, right?

11:42 It does Brad. This is your first time watching The Silence of the Lambs. It's time for us to move into the segment that we call Brad explains. This is where Brad breaks down the plot of the movie that he has just seen often for the first time if you are a first-time listener to our Podcast. The whole conceit behind this podcast is that I am a huge movie nerd. Brad has not seen a lot of these classic movies and is encountering. A lot of them for the first time and we drink whiskey together while we talk about it. So, Brad, this is your shining opportunity to talk about this movie that has terrified you from childhood. As you know, Brad we have implemented a strict 62nd. Brad explains limit this this season. Can you break down the plot of The Silence of the Lambs for our listeners in under 60 seconds, man? I was really hoping to like have as much time as possible and just be like we start alone, Jodie, Foster running through the woods, right?

12:37 Yeah, but I would love to explain it. The Silence of the Lambs is a psychological Thriller about a young FBI's student named Clarice Starling, who is tasked with interviewing, an old serial killer who was a cannibal named Hannibal Lecter. And Hannibal is helping her to solve a case. Case that is happening. Now the new sillier serial killer named Buffalo. Bill who is skinning? His captives alive. And so the relationship between ha and Starling is kind of the centerpiece of the movie. Hannibal is, actually a psychiatrist. He's dr. Hannibal Lecter. And so he's delving into her history and her past and trying to glean as much as he can to find anything interesting to go on in this prison cell that has stuck in. And at a certain point later in the movie Hannibal, kind of a range has a transfer to a new prison. He escaped skills.

13:34 Some guards, wears a face and Jodie Foster finds her way with Hannibal's, help to the new serial killers Lair, and she is able to hunt down and kill the serial killer Buffalo Bill and his lair, and time in his lair. Perfect it. Yeah, I was trying not to say layer twice in a row. I'll tell you what man that she saves the day, man. Most states. Do you need a serial killers dwellings? Yeah, I know. Yeah but I have to end with one of the greatest ending lines in the history of Cinema. I'm having an old friend for dinner. Oh, it's so good. Okay, so I just have to share something real quick, so Sarah.

14:18 And I watch this, what would you say to next three weeks ago? Now, I would say it was, at least a month ago. Yeah, probably a month ago. We probably watched it a little bit too far. Out from from our recording and we were excited. We've both seen it before, but we hadn't seen in a long time. Anyway, so today we're like, let's watch one of those recap videos on YouTube just you know, just to refresh our memories and it's been a month. This guy who was doing it, it was like one of those, you know, Recaps and five minutes. He ruined ruined ruined the the best line he said. And then Hannibal Lecter says, I'm having an old friend over for dinner. No, that's not the law. Actually takes everything out of the line that pisses me off, actually, yeah.

15:02 But, um, yeah, I mean, everything about that line. It's the way Hopkins delivers it, right? Like he just has this perfect Immaculate. Annunciation that leaves. Absolutely. No room for thinking anything other than what he's about to do? Yeah. Well Brad, I think that's a really good transition into talking about the performances in the movie and I think we should really focus on the three. Three kind of main characters here in Lecter, Starling and Buffalo Bill. And since you've already brought up Anthony Hopkins let's talk about Hannibal Lecter he is one of the most iconic villains in cinema history. Anthony Hopkins wins the act of best actor Oscar despite only being in the movie for I think 20 minutes like and and the funny thing is he totally deserved it like even if he was only on screen for 20 minutes. I mean, this is going to sound stupid to rhyme but like I was Through the whole movie, The Specter of him is hanging over the whole movie and I wish I could think of a better word than the Specter of Lecter, but like it really does. Like there's just this sense that at all times he is operating in the background.

16:12 There's this this sense of dread that comes over you knowing that he's out there after he escapes. It is a commanding performance from Anthony Hopkins. But I will say the thing that really struck me this time through Brad is that I think that what makes it rewatchable isn't just the scary parts isn't just, when he's kind of toying with Clarice, it's how Sassy he is at times and how kind of snarky he is. You can really tell that Hopkins is having fun with this role. And that, even though he's a terrifying villain, he really does kind of have an ease about him as well. Oh yeah. There's a few moments especially early with him where I actually like almost laughed out loud with some of his dialogue. Like he's so The end sharp in his in the way he delivers his lines and also I think that the script in this movie is over all like it's pretty good.

17:06 It's not the best script I've ever seen for a film. However the writing for Hannibal is just so good, it's just over the top and its ability to capture this, this insanely precise mind that thinks through everything to the nth degree and Brad. One of the things that I I really really loved is the way that they introduced him. You know you're coming down that hallway. Full of just deranged Psychopaths who are progressively more and more violent in their behavior towards Clarice. And you know that this guy is at the end of the hall and you're looking at this hallway like, from her point of view and all of a sudden it comes kind of around the corner and you just see, Anthony Hopkins standing there, calmly passively and like he doesn't look imposing at all.

17:54 And when he says hello it's like a very cordial. Like hello. And you're like Who is this? This is the serial killer and then they use the rest of that scene to just slowly crank up the tension and it gets to the point where like he's really mad that she has been sent to screw with him and he decides to toy with her instead and it really becomes like this kind of psychological torture throughout that scene. And then let you know later on when you find out that he's been like whispering to the guy in the cell next to him to the point where he swallows his own tongue is super believable because you've Seen already, how much damage and how much torture he can do to Clarice. Just in that one little sequence that they have, yeah, and I love villains like that. That, you know, he's as you said, as she's walking down the hall, they're basically like Mad Dogs and then you come to Hannibal and he's, you know, just very calm and collected. I love villains like that because obviously, he's the most deadly of all of them and that entire hallway, but he's the most composed and those type of villain In cinema I think are the more compelling of course.

19:02 Yeah he feels like this Moriarty type of villain that's just so far beyond everyone else that you're like how did he even get captured in the first place? I read a fun fact that Anthony Hopkins convinced the director that has jumped through jumpsuit should be white instead of orange because it would be more unsettling like to see the stark white and that dark cell like that instead of the orange and I don't know why. But I, when I thought about that I was Like, actually, I think that it was a good choice because it does. It feels weird like a little off-kilter, like why absolutely put him in white. It also makes them feel a little less pedestrian. Like, if it was just orange, you would just feel like a normal, right? Your everyday, their criminal. Yeah, exactly.

19:43 White White's, almost more like it like elevates him, you know, as like a drape jacket or yes. I'll mmm. Yes, very much. Yeah. So Chad, I want to ask your opinion on something as a videographer especially there's a thing that the Of this movie. Jonathan Demi is known for, and they call it the Demi close-up. And if you notice every time there's a close up in this movie, or almost every time, the characters that are being shot are looking straight down the barrel of the camera. They're essentially breaking the fourth wall and it's not something that you see in a lot of movies, like, you try to keep eyelines consistent, and you try not to break the 180 degree rule, they call it. But in this movie, you are put directly in the position of whoever is, you know, listening to the person in the close-up and when it's on Hannibal Lecter and he is staring right down into your soul it is incredibly unsettling. So I mean I guess I just wanted to pick your brain. Did you notice the camera work in that aspect and what other kind of visual things stood out to you in the movie? Yeah I think Sara and I both kind of picked up on that pretty quickly and it's really I think to kind of comment on how Clarice is being observed.

20:55 Yep. I by men in the The because she is always looking off to the side and people are always looking directly into the camera when they're speaking to her. And it's really the only time that Jodie Foster looks directly to the camera as when she's talking to her female friend. I think they're like doing laundry. I think they're sitting on like a washer and dryer or something and they're going over the case files. And she looks directly into the camera, which is her friend and her friend looks directly into the camera which is to Clarice. But every other time, if it's looking directly to the camera, it's a man talking to her and she's always the one with the eye line off. And I thought that's obviously very deliberate and I think it's something that the audience can pretty easily pick up on. Well, and one of my favorite interactions. I'm so glad you brought up how men observe her throughout the movie, because one of the key things that you know, Hannibal talks about is this idea of sight, like what do we see, we see what we want and it brings in this idea of covetousness was the first in principle thing.

22:03 He does. What needs does he serve by killing anger? Um, social acceptance? Sexual frustrations know it cuts. That is his nature. And how do we begin to covered Clarice? Do we seek out things to covered? Make an effort to answer now. Now, we just now we begin by coveting. What we see every day. And it feels like all of these men in the movie have so many different various feelings. When they see Jodie Foster walking into the room.

22:46 And yet, the only person in the entire movie, gee that really truly respects Jodie Foster for who she is and treats her. Like, she's really brilliant is Hannibal. Yeah, like she kind of gets that from her boss. The, I can't remember his name right now, who's the guy that like calls her in Jack cross? Yeah, Scott Glenn is the actor. Yeah. Sky. Yeah. Just got Glen. So Crawford calls her in. He kind of treats her with with respect and he learns to do that. You know, she basically tells him like, Hey, like, if you treat me like crap. Nobody else's today, but but it's just fascinating to me that the only person who looks her dead in the eye and not just for her.

23:28 Physical beauty is Hannibal Lecter, and he's the one who who treats her well and I that I think things like that are what make a script even better? Yeah, I think that's what's the most disturbing for me. I mean, when you think about it, because they present him in that way, is like the only person who really tries to get to know her the only person. Who's like really super direct with her. As like he, he's the most terrifying man in the movie and yet, we feel like he's giving her, I don't know, the most respect the most, like acknowledgement and then there's all these other people in her life who are who, you know, should be co-workers or bosses or whatever and be respectful.

24:11 And then we see, like Chad was saying, like, just, there's like the elevator scene where everyone's bigger than Her and she's made to feel small and then there's the scene at the morgue. We're like everyone turns and looks at her at once. There's just all these scenes were, she's definitely not in the same position as she is when she's talking to Hannibal. But that's weird because he is a terrifying serial killer. Yeah, very polite. And I'm so glad that everyone like is picking up on this too because I definitely noticed it this time. Jonathan Demi is perfectly willing to kind of get out of the rhythm of the editing. And in order to Showcase that to like and it made me think about, there's, you know, there's this concept in, like, film studies. That's called the male gaze.

24:56 And essentially, it's when a director, who is usually a male is using the camera in a way that a man would look at a woman. Lustfully, so like, if you think about the way that Michael Bay would film Megan, Fox in the Transformers movies where it's just super objectifying the camera. Lingers in places that it shouldn't linger. And this movie, it is all about the male gaze, but it's totally condemning it. And so, like, you have these scenes where it's like, two characters are talking and then like one character will walk off screen and the camera will just Linger on the second person for a while. And you're kind of wondering, like, why didn't they cut away their but as the movie kind of builds and they do it more and more, you start to realize that Demi is doing this thing where he is like implicating all of the men in the movie in being just huge, creeps and huge pervs like there. There's even A little scene where it's Kasi Lemmons and Jodie, Foster are just out for a jog and all of the the male FBI trainees who jog past them?

25:58 Alternately turn around. Yeah, all of them do. It's like that Meme. Yeah, absolutely. And I just, I really love that, you know, even the people who you think are trustworthy people like at the very end of the movie, there's another guy that graduates, the academy with them, and he like, he grabs, one of them and says, hey, let's take a picture together, and you can tell how uncomfortable she is and I just, I really love that. They subtly worked this critique into the movie that even while we're looking at the things that Buffalo Bill is doing to these people. He is not, you know so far down the road that we can't identify what's driving him. Like it's very perverse but that perversity is is present in a lot of people in this movie. Yeah, I think you totally hit the nail on the head. There like we're seeing Buffalo Bill as being like the extreme version of this but then the rest of The movie is filled with everyday instances of things that are in the same vein but not as Extreme as what he's doing, right? Yeah, and can we talk about the Bug Guy? Remember when she goes to get the moth as a mom? Yeah she goes to get the mop identified at like a library or it's some sort of a.

27:06 So one of the actors, they're one of the two bug guys book scientist was caused by one bug idea bug guy to he was cross-eyed in one eye and he was looking at I think that had to be on purpose, right? There's no they wouldn't have just casted that actor just because right so his right eye was looking in and his left eye was looking at Clarisse. Yeah, and I don't know what that could be like a commentary on though, but I agree with you. It had to be intentional because he asked her out. He asks her out and he comes across very nice. So I think it's fair to do a job. Yeah. So it's like is he being nice? Is he being a creep?

27:47 Were not really sure because he sort of, in the middle. All right, your he's sort of in the middle like his eyes. Well, yeah, exactly. Oh my gosh, I am like I'm nerding out over here right now. I'm so happy that we're breaking down this movie at such a deep level. But before we go to break, Brad, I do want to hit on these other two performances. Especially let's talk about Jodie Foster because we've been talking about the way everyone in the movie, looks at her, you know, Brad and I were texting before we recorded this episode, I kind of asked him what his General thoughts on the movie were, and of course, on your first viewing, Anthony Hopkins. As Hannibal Lecter is really going to stand out but for me, you know, having seen this movie a few times. Now, I think the best performance to re-watch is Jodie, Foster because she is doing just so much subtle stuff in her performance, where it's almost like, you know, because her character goes from being a little more timid to a little more assertive, you see that slow transformation throughout the movie, but also just as an actress, I think she knows that some of these other performances. Are much bigger and much more showy. Like Hannibal Lecter is a big showy performance, Buffalo Bills, a big showy performance.

28:56 And she's really just content in a lot of scenes to kind of support that other person and I really her performance really blew me away this time. I mean, it was she absolutely deserved the Oscar that she won but I think in a lot of ways she even tops. What Anthony Hopkins is doing here. Well what I think what was really truly amazing about her. Her It's is the fact that she plays this dichotomy. So well-liked, in the face of 99% of the characters of the movie, she comes across as a slightly demure, but confident young woman who recognizes that she is a student who recognizes that.

29:37 She's, you know, not like a top, detective at the FBI. She's just kind of there to do her job and she's kind of cool. Calm confident and relaxed. But when it comes to Hannibal the only person who truly respects her in this movie, he is the only one where you see the other side of her performance. And I think that is what gives her performance strength is those moments where she breaks down just in the slightest. Because Hannibal is actually paying attention to her is actually like looking into her soul and trying to dig at things that have been bothering her her entire life. And so, I think it's that dichotomy of a performance where She presents this front to the entire world, except for the serial killer that like, that is what makes her performance? So powerful.

30:26 Yeah. And I thinking about that, I was wondering, like this kind of goes against what we were just talking about, but the front that she puts out, right? Is a form of control, right? She's in all these situations with coworkers and things and so she's putting that forward as like that is her way of controlling the situation but I think when she's with Hannah, He gets below the surface and into her past at things that I think throw her off kilter and she loses control. And I think that's what brings out those elements of her character. That are so interesting of like, who is she, when, when she's not putting that mask on? Yeah, for sure. And then, so I think we go from the most complex character in the movie. In Clarisse to the least complex character in a lot of ways in Buffalo Bill, and I feel like they try to do a lot to set him up, like, they talked about his motivation. Ins.

31:17 They talk about, you know, there's a lot of conversation about like, is he transsexual? No, he's not. He just wants to, you know, metamorphose into something else. And and I was really looking forward to them getting a little bit more in-depth with his character, but they never really do. And I think, if I do have one complaint with the movie, it's that they spend so much time developing the Hannibal, Lecter and Clarice relationship that Buffalo Bills. Really, not in the movie that much like he comes in. I think like 30. I 40 minutes into the movie and he really only has like, three long scenes and that's it. And so, like by the 2/3 point where Hannibal Lecter escapes from his cell and they really shift hard into the Buffalo Bill stuff. I didn't find that.

32:02 Like as I don't know as compelling as I wished it was because it really did seem like a hard left. Turn into okay. Now we're going to follow this guy who we haven't really set up very well. And we haven't really given you a lot to work with. I don't know. Did you guys have the same vibe? You know, it's a balancing act with those three characters and of course this is based off a book. So the book Dives more into his past but it's kind of like do you try to flush out three characters to the detriment of them? Not getting flushed out as much or do you really flush out Clarice and Hannibal and kind of put bill on the back burner just so you don't have an overstuffed movie. I bet there was you know, discussion discussion about that.

32:46 But You know, through through the Buffalo Bill stuff, we're still with Clarice, at least they're in the end and I think it's more about the stories more about her triumphed over that, you know, being out in the field with such a danger for the first time then it is about Buffalo Bill himself. Yeah, yeah. I think one of the, the problems with Buffalo Bill is a character is the one specific moment where it gives a close-up on his? Oops, and he just says, multiple times in a row. Like would you f me? Like and he just kind of repeats that over and over goes. Yeah, yeah I would and I for me, that was just this reduction of him as like, oh, he's just a sexual deviant.

33:35 Like you've been, you've been given This brilliant mind of Hannibal Lecter who just is immaculate in the way he thinks about things and it just feels like A bill is a crude cheap imitation of Hannibal Lecter and I don't know, maybe they were trying to go for that but for me then it kind of lessened, the impact of of what you were going for with Buffalo Bill as a serial killer. Yeah. Brad, I think that's that's a good point. And that's kind of giving voice to what I was thinking too, and I think that that Ted Levine who plays Buffalo Bill is fantastic. I think he really plays that role. Well, he brings a little bit of nuance to that character. That isn't really there on the page, but you're right.

34:17 I think like especially setting it up where you see Hannibal escape and you know that this criminal mastermind is out there in the world somewhere that just kind of cutting back to Buffalo Bill and finding out like you said that they're kind of just reducing him to being a sexual deviant like he never really had the the threat of Hannibal. Like I always felt more threatened by Hannibal than I did by Buffalo Bill and I do think that like, if there is something to nitpick with this, It would be the way they handle that. Yeah I mean Hannibal as a threat like I think the way you can sum him up as a threat is that at the end of the movie you know, right before he delivers the you know, one of the best ending lines of all time. He says, what I think to be, why he is a threat and he says to Clarisse oh don't worry, you know, I am not going to call, you know call a visit or pay a visit to you. The world is much more interesting with you in it. And the threat there is, if I didn't think you were interesting I could kill you know, like no questions asked. There's no way anybody could stop me, but I think the world's more interesting with you in it.

35:31 So I'll leave you be for now, it's like this ultimate power play. That is just so calmly and coolly delivered that yeah, Buffalo. Bill just isn't really even a threat compared to Hannibal Lecter. He's definitely more two-dimensional and I think that they try to get there. Obviously, again, like Chad said, it comes from the books, but like, they bring up things that allude to like, why is he, the way he is, what kind of, you know, he's going through some sort of transformation. Obviously, he's in some sort of stage of psychosis and like they connect the transformative stuff back to the moth and like the Cocoon to the full-blown moth and all that stuff. But I agree, I think as somebody who really likes to learn About serial killers and why they do what they do. I do feel like they really didn't deliver on connecting the dots all the way around on on him and like why is he so scary? Because he is the headline murderer of the movie. Even though Hannibal's this technically comes across the scariest.

36:33 He's for the most part of the movie. He's in a prison cell locked up in in someone else's control. So we have this guy out there running all the loose and yet somehow he comes across as less scary. Yep. I think it kind of makes sense when you think about it, because it's a more nuanced script that way. Like if Hannibal Lecter is the boss battle, okay? And Buffalo Bill, my language. Yeah, Buffalo build is, you know, just an end level Baddie, Buffalo Bill can be defeated, but Hannibal cannot. So you know, it's kind of scarier that way. Like yeah, there's these Psychopaths.

37:15 Out there who are just sexual deviants, like you said, reduced to something as simple as that. And then there's the real, intellects that are much scarier because they are both a genius and a killer that will not be caught. The cannot be caught. Whether it's, you know, from Clarice or anyone else of her colleagues, I think that kind of it makes it Less of, everything's tied up in a nice neat. Bow. At the end of the movie. Yeah, you got the bad guy but you didn't get the big bad. Yeah. Yeah. Wow guys.

37:55 I am so enjoying talking about this movie. We are like really deep into talking about this movie at this point. I don't want to press pause, but we do need to get to our whiskey for the day. So what do you all say? We tried this old tub. Let's do it. Do I have to drink out of a tub? Not not today. All right, so today we are checking out old tub. Now, this is a bottled in bond bourbon that comes from the Jim Beam company Brad.

38:55 This has a really interesting backstory, I will spare everyone the Gory details of the rich history of this hundred proof bourbon, but for a long time, they were only selling this as kind of like a touristy visitor, special thing, you can only get it at one of their distilleries. It was the one in Clermont Kentucky. And so if you wanted, you could buy a pint of old tub for like 20 bucks. X. And when you and I went to Kentucky, a couple years ago, I really wanted to get up there and try this old tub. I'd heard really good things about it, for being kind of a budget. Bargain whiskey, we didn't get a chance to and then all the sudden, they decided we're going to take this brand National and so they have, you know gone are they have upgraded from having just pints of it to offering them in a fifth.

39:39 It is still an incredibly affordable bourbon. We'll get into what we think of the price on this. And if it's worth buying Brad, You heard of old tub before we worked it into the show here? No, nice. There it is. No. But Bob, I had not heard of old tub before. And honestly, there was part of me that was like, man, you just, you hear certain names of Whiskey's and you're like, oh, that's going to be a cheap whiskey, isn't it? When you hear the name old tub? You don't necessarily think like yes, this is a Glenmore geoduck, right? Great. But, but at the same time, Brad you And I are huge fans of getting a whiskey for a steal and I think this really could qualify depending on what we think of it. Now again, coming from Jim Beam.

40:27 It is said to have that signature Jim Beam kind of nuttiness that you get on the nose and on the taste you know we have that Brad when we looked at not Creek. When we looked at you know Booker's they all really have that sort of signature Jim Beam flavor profile. So as all of us get into the nose here. What are some of the notes that you're picking Brad is that nuttiness coming out for you know, really? Really. Yeah, it's like jumping out of it is for me. No judgment but you're wrong. Yeah 100% right, I'm sorry. Tell him, just kidding. Tell him what we have for him. It's a lovely Parting Gift, right. Ya know for me I come to the nose and it's a little bit potent.

41:08 I feel like it hits me a little strong. I try to blow out some of that alcohol and it's just lingering for me. I get I get some nice vanilla. Nila some Oak little bit of corn but I'm not hitting a ton of nuttiness. It's not coming out for me for me, the nose here. It's not enough of something to make me like it so I'm going to give it a 5 out of 10 on the new. Wow. Yeah. Brett, I'm having a completely different experience and I know for a fact we're drinking the same whiskey because I gave you a sample out of my bottle of this. And for me this is all just peanuts and like, really waxy kind of nuts like Like cashews.

41:49 There is like you said, there's some Oak here. I don't get a lot of Oak Char, it's kind of like a younger would smell to me and you're right. Like, it's a little bit aggressive on the nose, there's definitely some alcohol present. But at 100 proof, I would expect that I really dig this, this nosing profile here. I'm actually going to give this an 8 out of 10 now. Are you guys drinking out of the same type of glass? I'm, yeah, I'm drinking out of a glen care and I believe Brad is too. Yep. So mine's been sitting out for a bit, so I might be having a different experience than you, but I kind of having more of Bob's experience. I'm getting like nuttiness on the nose but for me it's more pecans and I'm getting like, salted, caramel and pecans, which I find that sounds delicious to me right now. Yeah, I get what you're saying, there's more, you know, but of alcohol coming through.

42:39 But I think for the price and the proof that is also to be expected. But for me, it screams Jim Beam, sure and I was, I was kind of getting, you know, sort of some powerful ethanol on it when I was first really nosing it. So what I did is I just blew into my glass, it's kind of did that sound effects and then I went back and it's it's not it's not as hard as she more if you do that. And actually after I did that, I kind of got some popcorn. So I think it is that going to you're talking about but specifically like buttered popcorn along with The nuttiness that's obviously there. I kind of feel like those are almost Givens on on a Jim Beam. But yeah, caramel corn.

43:21 What do you think out of 10? I gave it. I mean, it's yeah, I gave it a 7. I can be seven, it is good but you know I've we've also smelled some exceptional stuff, right? Yeah, you know if I'm thinking of all of all time it is it's smells nice that yeah yeah. I think that caramel is coming across from me a little bit more as like a Coca-Cola kind of nose and eye. I like that: note as well. So you both went seven on this. Brad went five, I went eight. Alright, so we have our first score here and that means that it's time for us to taste it. So let's all give it a sip and Brad, I'm sure that you've already been sipping on it and ready to just eviscerate it based on your nose score. So what do you picking up here on the taste? Honestly, it's not as bad on the palate as it is on the nose for me.

44:07 There's a decent bit of vanilla coming through for me. That, that hit me on the aroma here. I get a little bit more of that. Caramel a little more buttery, smooth of a flavor profile. Then I had on the nose, it's still not popping for me or like overwhelming me, but I'm going to bump my score up a little bit. I'll give it a six and a half. I'm getting a little bit of that nuttiness that I was getting on the nose. I still think for me, it's in like a lighter nuttiness like a pecan, maybe like a walnut or something like that. But now that coming off of our you know knows notes, I actually get the cola That you mentioned and it's almost like a and I don't really drink soda that much.

44:48 So for me, it's reminding me of something, like, a chocolaty vanilla Cola, or like at the bottom of a root beer float, or something like that, with some of those Okie notes to. Yeah, I I'm glad you said root beer Sarah because with this whole, when the whole Cola discussion got brought up Bob, I was kind of like, yeah, okay, I can. And then it kind of went in that area almost like a root beer float because there is that vanilla in there. So I'm kind of Like when a root beer float, kind of Frost's, and you just sort of before you get to the real Cola part, you kind of drink that froth, that's sort of what I'm getting for the nuttiness it's sort of like for me it's a cross between like a salted peanut and dry pecan. Hmm, But I am getting the right Spice in there. The butter popcorn caramel and a little bit of brittle sort of in them.

45:36 Chad, wow. Yeah, which is, you know, pretty pretty just the movies. Yeah, let's all go. Hobbies, it's all good. I don't know about the rest of you but I'm picking up almost all the notes that you're talking about here, but I also wouldn't really classify this as an overly sweet bourbon. Like a all, the notes were talking about our sweet things but disliked the lingering notes for me on this, I think this is really alcohol forward and mean, it isn't a hundred proof and Brad and I have talked before about how sometimes things in this kind of hundred. 210 prove range, the alcohol can seem more harsh than than a barrel proof for some reason. And I really do think the alcohol is front and center here.

46:18 And the oak is really front and center here. I get a lot of that kind of like Sarah. You talked about chocolate a little bit too. I do get some kind of dark chocolate notes on this as well. And you know it does have your classic bourbon profile. But again like I don't think that it tips into like, lingering sweetness on the palate. I'm only going to give this one like a six and a half on the palate. Same shock. Oh man, are we all in a six-and-a-half? No, I'm at a seven and a half how big? I think I know. And I might be kind of unfairly rating. It knowing what the prices and yeah, that. Yeah. But I gave it a 7 half. I think for a and I'm kind of comparing it to other bottled and bonds and its price range, which I probably am. Italy.

47:04 Shouldn't be doing. But I'm kind of thinking of the Evan Williams bald and bond. I'm thinking of jts brown, I'm thinking Of JW dant and but except maybe everybody's bought in a bond. I think it's kind of going above those other guys. So I don't know, I think for, for an ancho filtered bi bi it's got a taste of a 7.5 for me and that rhymed uh well so here's the thing, chat on the nose, we judged it. Based on what's the 10/10? The best thing we've ever known. I know that's why I bet on the taste your leg well compared to other bottom and I don't disagree. With you if we this was just mine site compared to other bottle to Mom's, I would have also given this higher score but I thought we were doing just in general. Well we are tell you what I'm going to take it down to seven even good.

47:51 Seven look what I've done was it we are wildly inconsistent in how we scored things because oh yeah. Because like we always say that we're trying to be objective and like you said Sarah like based on the best we've ever had but it is impossible to not keep the price tag in mind when you're drinking something that's on the cheaper end of the spectrum and so weird because A 25-dollar whisky isn't supposed to taste like a 200 dollar whiskey. Like, they're not supposed to be comparable. Yeah. So as I think it's fair. Exactly. And that takes us from our taste scores into our finished scores, I guess, I'll just go first real quick. I don't think this has like, an overwhelmingly great finish. Its pleasant, it doesn't burn too badly, the Kentucky hug on. This is not like, it doesn't Scorch your esophagus on the way down, but it definitely is warming.

48:38 It's not it's not a dry finish it. Mouth-watering. But still again like the predominant flavor that's left on my palate, is the oak. So if you're into something like that, it's not super short. It's a little bit lingering, you know, again given the price. I'm going to give it again a six and a half out of ten on the finish. I'm 100% on the same page as you but I think I'm going to go a 6 out of 10. Yeah, sir I'm actually right there with you. I think that this has like you said, Bob, it's got that oakiness I get a little bit of spice as it starts. It's moving down the throat and I will, I will admit. I will fully admit the last like breath that I had of this bourbon. I was kind of like, oh I was a little bit like peanut butter is there, but that was the only hint of nuttiness I had throughout the entire experience. I'll give it a six out of ten on the Finish. It's decent but it's not blowing me away. Okay, I actually think just a A little bit with you. I think it's a tad dry, but I am getting some rice spice on the back end and it's almost a little tart or something. There's something.

49:52 There's some little yeah, under defined, something rather and I'm not really getting a hug on this one for 100 proof or I'm not getting a Kentucky hug which should I feel like it should be there? I want it to be there. Anyway I always wanted to be there so I'm also giving it a six out of ten. I think that note that you're picking up is the tub. Yeah, that's what it is. Old grimy tub that has funk. That's right. All right, so that takes us into our balance score. Now, the way we Define balance here on the podcast is, take your nose taste and finish experiences and consider them as one cohesive whole. It doesn't necessarily mean that, you know what, you picked up in the nose had to be there in the taste in the Finish but we're looking more at was there a peak and then like a huge Valley or Is it one nice drinking experience throughout so knowing that Brad where would you put this on the balance score?

50:46 I think I'd give it a seven like its overall, pretty well balanced whiskey. You what? I got on the aroma was a little softer than what I ended up tasting and finishing with. But overall it's it's decent, it's solid. I think that you can tell that this is a high quality budget bourbon. Does that make sense? Absolutely. I think it does kind of hate using the word smooth because really what does that mean? But I think it drinks a little smoother than the nose gives off but I think altogether knows the palate, the finish. I think it's pretty cohesive, nothing's really jutting out. I would say, maybe the Finish might be the thing. That's lacking just a little bit, but I would also give it about a seven for me.

51:37 I agree that the Finish It definitely wasn't where I hoped it would be based on the palate, but I thought that the nose was not a huge departure, but I was really looking forward to something. From all the notes that I got on the nose that I don't feel like is what it necessarily delivered on on the palette. There was a lot of overlap there but it wasn't. I don't know. I think I was my expectations weren't exactly met and then to end what that finish, that that was a little lackluster. Made me give it a six point five on the balance. However, Again for the price. I do think that it delivers I mean it's an enjoyable experience, it's not all over the place. Yeah.

52:17 I'm right there with you guys. This is, you know, it's enjoyable, it's not knocking my socks off in any way. And, you know, again we were talking about Jim Beam products. I think that if we were comparing this to Knob Creek at 100 proof, I would choose Knob Creek over this probably any day of the week. But again, that's kind of a little bit, comparing apples to oranges because of the significant price Difference between this and Knob Creek, so yeah, I'll give it a 7 out of 10 on the overall balance and that is going to take us to our value score. This is the final score that we do. We do consider value in our reviews here and me, if you're only interested in the actual tasting experience, you can look at our first four categories, but we want to keep the, you know, the average everyday consumer in mind and look at, where does this stand at the price point?

53:07 That it's at? Is it overpriced It underpriced is a huge bargain. And Brad, I picked this up when it was still only available in. Kentucky, for $20.99 it has since expanded Nationwide, I think in the state of Ohio is currently retailing at 2199 for the price, this one's pretty hard to beat. Like, Chad was talking about, you know, really the only thing at its price point. That's available Nationwide. Is that Evan Williams bottled in bond, which retails for about 18 bucks, and I think this is really comparable to that. I'm going to go ahead and give this an eight and a half on value. Yeah, that's what I gave it to. And the reason why two is because when I know that Wild Turkey 101 is out there for a couple bucks less. I'm like, well you're almost there you're almost at the top of the value but not are quite personally. That's just a reliable poor for me. And if I can spend a little bit less money on it, then that's what I'll do.

54:07 Yeah. You know, the wild turkey. Benchmark hate using that because that's the name of another bourbon the wild turkey. It really draws a Line in the Sand Yellow Line in the Sand, the pole, I don't know the limbo pole. I don't know the far that it sets. Yes, the bar is definitely a good one and then, you know, you brought up Knob Creek and I can't believe I wasn't thinking about that Knob Creek, 100 Proof in our area is only $25, right? So just a couple bucks, more $3 more, I would definitely get Knob Creek, 100 Proof small. Patch. I think it's developed a bit more character. Yeah, one a little bit more depth for sure. So I think that kind of dings it but for what it is, I still gave it.

54:49 I gave it an eight. Yeah, I'm sitting at a seven and a half. I like you guys have said it all, it's a solid budget bourbon. Like it's not the most massively flavorful or complex whiskey. You're going to have. But for twenty to twenty five dollars, you know, depending on where you're getting it, this is a really solid whiskey. It's a good pick up and I think it's something that you can easily pull out on. You know, if you're having a bourbon night with some friends, or if you're like Chad and you're having a cute girl over that you're interested in. Oh yeah. Well, let's just have a bourbon night. All pull out a few Bourbons. Wait, I think that's being cute girls over. I told you guys that in confidence. No, man.

55:31 Well that is a bin. It's bourbon night. This is their final public showing. Yeah, this is you know you guys got a got a scoop Oh man. But yeah that's that's bringing me to a 31.5 out of 50. What's the total coming out to for you guys? Brad, I'm actually a little bit higher than you. I'm coming out to a 36 point five which means that our overall score put together is a 68 out of 100 or a 34 out of 50 typically, where we fall on this is that if something hits, the 35, Mark will recommend buying a bottle. I actually would still recommend buying a bottle because it's $21 like, it's Even if you don't really care for it or if you think it's just like we do a solid poor but nothing to write home about you're only investing 20 bucks in this.

56:17 I definitely think it's worth buying a bottle. I actually would not recommend getting a poor. You know, sometimes we say like okay, if you don't wanna get a bottle, go ahead and get a poor at a bar. You're going to spend so much on getting, you know, a one-ounce sample of this that you might as well just go ahead and go whole hog and get it. Get the the bottle here. So that's where we're coming out. Chad and Sarah. Where are you guys on this one? I give it a .5, which I feel like should just be rounded up to a 35 because I would recommend for all the reasons that you've said that to go out and get a bottle of this. Yeah. And I was at a 35 35 out of 50. So, yeah, right there on the cusp and yeah, like you said, a porter bar would probably be five to six dollars, which is a fourth, of the bottle, right? Yeah, right.

57:00 They also sell a 375 for $15, which is all so ridiculous, just by the door full 750 Absolutely, yeah, honestly these are the types of Whiskey's that bars make just make Bank off of. So go buy yourself a bottle guys, I am just so thankful to have more whiskey experts on the show. I think it enlightens Bob and I on just better ways of nosing and thinking through whiskey. So thank you guys so much for sharing your expertise here. Well thanks for inviting us to share our pleasure. Yeah, well let's let's jump back in and finish our thoughts on this. It's just classic of a thriller Silence of the Lambs.

58:25 Alright, so that was old tub of whiskey that we all recommend, especially at the price point, and we are getting back into talking about The Silence of the Lambs, Brad. Again, this is a Best Picture Winner, you know, I've gone back and forth on my overall Thoughts with this movie. I've always thought that this was a very well-made movie and a very good movie. But there's just always been something that kept me from thinking it was a great movie. And I'm trying to parse out, is it? Just because this movie changed The landscape of the serial killer movie forever. And that we've just had 30 years of copycats, because I really do think that even when you watch like Criminal Minds are things on TV.

59:06 Now, they resemble the Silence of the Lambs so much that I think, maybe it's just that, we're 30 years removed now. And the shock value has kind of lost. Its Effectiveness, I don't know. What do you guys think of that? Is it, is it a movie that it has aged poorly or have we just seen so many copycats of this that it may not just Hold up as well as we would like it to. I think that you're right there. I think we've seen so much in this vein over the past 20 years or it cost 30 years almost since this was made. Wow that it feels almost like it's not going far enough which is weird to think about because it's like what else do we want to see? Right.

59:47 But I think we got into that a bit when we were talking about wanting to see Bill go further like I think in 1991 when this movie came out that this Was enough. And this was terrifying enough. And I'm sure it's probably like a product of the internet, right? And, and serial killer miniseries. That we feel like now re-watching this again. And I've seen this so many times that it, it feels a little safe. Yeah, but I still yeah, it's an I watched it over and over again. I definitely think it's a great film in a weird sense. This film is still very shocking and it's very violent and you see things that you really can't unsee. And yet there is still an element of it. That feels kind of Like quaint. I don't know if there's another word I can use for that, but I think because it's just like a police procedural and you're following this FBI agent, it never really made me think.

1:00:35 Oh, this is a horror movie. It was always more of like, okay, I would call it a thriller. I'd call it like, Brad has been calling it a psychological Thriller, but I don't know that I was ever actually terrified watching this movie, I think. And I'm going to try to articulate this the best way that I can, but I think there's like two parts of this. This and how I'm thinking about it and that one, it's a movie about the uncomfortableness and the terror that women can experience at the hands of men, which is not a new like again. Like we were just talking about it's not new subject matter. We see stuff like that in here. Stuff like that all the time. I think what is kind of groundbreaking and stuck with the movie, is the way in, which they communicate that visually. And through sound through that, eye contact that we were talking about before like those Ways that you can't even register, sometimes that make it feel, unsettling that again for the same reason, so, you know, the male gaze that they're using that to make you feel uncomfortable. And so that's what's really sticking with me as to why I think I find that it does hold up. Hmm, I kind of like what they are, how they are making people feel uncomfortable with with the, you know, straight to camera.

1:01:50 And those type of things where if you're thinking about, I know this isn't a horror movie. But, you know, We said it could kind of be classified that way. Like today, it's always that really unsettling note on the violin that just plays like that single room. You don't know things like that. Where I appreciate those things that have become tropes. I don't think it really anything from this movie besides sort of the story beats or the format. Nothing really anything that they do. It didn't become a Trope, like they didn't have a bullet time. You know, where the Matrix it is revolutionary and then everyone did it and then it became a tired Trope, nothing for a this movie kind of suffered because of that it's hard. That's kind of what I was saying like. Yeah, okay, and the plot and things like that and it's very much, you know, run-of-the-mill now. Yes.

1:02:48 But I think the way in which they went about communicating it is what really stood the test of time, okay. Okay. And and isn't something that you see a lot of now and nothing became. You know, nothing took me out of the movie because of the Year there was filmed except oh well, she would just use her cell phone at this point. But, you know, there's so many movies that you could say that to, like she could just call her boss on her cell phone, she had a cellphone but it's 1991 and yeah, right? So that really didn't bother me, but it doesn't have a whole whole lot of re-watch value for me just because I see, I love, oh, yes, sir, every watches it For me, there's always more notes you could take to learn, but I was just kind of thinking when you guys are talking like it almost like you want it to push more.

1:03:34 Now, it's like it's okay. It's not seven. I think seven is kind of like the new Silence of the Lambs for its time, sort of type of thing. Okay, let's show more. Let's get a little bit more graphic, but the one thing that I can't really forget about this movie is when Hannibal Lecter takes It's the guards baton when he's in the cell. Yeah. Yeah. He just whacking them with that. Look on his face. Like, he could have been making a cake or something, just so mundane the look on his face when and the blood is splattering up on his white T-shirt and on his face that like so much of this movie in its Terror and it's uneasiness comes, from not, just the camera work, but from Anthony Hopkins, performance. I feel like I think this In that sticks with me is when Clarice is feeling around in the dark, and Buffalo, Bill has the night vision goggles on like, I'm pretty sure that's the reason why as an adult, I'm occasionally still afraid of the dark.

1:04:35 Yes, because who knows if there's a Buffalo Bill, someone's got. What's that lesson? That we learned always carry night vision goggles in your purse or flashlight, right? Or that what do you guys think? Well Brad. I was going to ask you about this too because, you know, we've all watched this movie before except for you and we're talking about it's re-watch value. And so, maybe the best way to talk about that is To give out your Brad G award for this movie. So having come into it for the first time, what stuck out to you in this movie? And what award would you give the Silence of the Lambs? Well, I feel like there's there's a number of different awards that you could give it. I'm actually gonna draw in on the title of the movie and say that this film receives the award for the most terrifying, story of childhood I have ever heard in my life. Hey, is the idea of losing your mother as a what she portrayed as like, a baby or infant or toddler and then losing your father when you're 10 and then going to a ranch in Montana and listening to Lambs scream as they get slaughtered. What did you do?

1:05:46 Downstairs outside. I crept up into the mornings. I'm so scared to look inside my head. What did you see? Clarys, what did you see? Wow. I was screaming. They were slaughtering the spring Lambs. They were screaming. That is like one of the most horrifying traumatizing childhood experiences I've ever seen. And I don't know if there's any movie that we can really top that story. Yeah, that's, I mean, that's a good point. I think it's crazy how they connected back to like, what she's doing now, right? She's hunting, a serial killer who's murdering innocent women, right?

1:06:32 Absolutely, Mmm. Yeah, but as I was listening to you guys talk, I had a few different thoughts, the mundane way that he looks at killing the guard with the, the Baton Is like counter imposed with the intensity and the interest that he looks at Clarisse with right. Like it is human beings that he finds interesting, not the whole mundane nature of killing people and I just I love that juxtaposition and then when you guys were talking about it as like a crime procedural, I think the thing for me that makes this movie Stand Out and and really rise above all of the copycats that came after it.

1:07:14 Is that you can tell that Demi is not using anything extraneous to the movie. And he's not like pushing his way into anything that is familiar. And the two things that really stick stuck out to me, were her best friend and an opening scene that might feel meaningless. But she's training as an FBI agent and she gets fake killed because she doesn't check the corner. Right. And what I loved about the movie is that it didn't Fall into this like best friend giving advice Trope like her friend in the academy is just there for a few small moments and we don't have her for anything more than what we need. Like, I feel like a lesser director easily could have had a 6-minute scene where she's conversing with her friend and like hashing out the details of the case and it would have taken forever and Sloan the movie down and that would have happened in like a 43 minute TV episode.

1:08:12 And the second thing was, when she's Going down the stairs into Buffalo Bill's house. My immediate thought was, I hope she's not going to check the corner because that's just. Yeah, because that's just what directors and movies. Do they set you up for checking the corner quote-unquote? And then the character like does it and it's heroic or they don't do it and they fail because of it and then they didn't do that at all. They didn't they didn't like use that at all and I was kind of like oh good job Demi, I'm proud of you for not doing that because if this is a TV show it, 100% would have played into this. Story completely. I think that's a good point and, and that kind of brings me around to my final score on this movie. And I think I'll start with the final scores because I'm afraid that I might have the lowest final score of all of us. And it's not because I dislike this movie like I said, I have really gone back and forth on is this a very good movie or is it a great movie and it's definitely a movie that people Revere.

1:09:07 Like it's, you know, if you go on IMDb I think it's like number 23. All time. It's super well made the first time I saw it, it was Horrifying. I think it still holds up on re-watch, but like Chad said, it definitely loses something in the re-watch. And so I'm coming at this movie having seen it, you know, ten times. Now probably I think I'm going to give it an eight and a half like it's a really well-made movie. It won best picture. I think deservedly so. But I don't know if I would put it like in that all time ranking and I was thinking about like serial killer movies and how they've developed over the years. And I think if I had to choose one Serial killer movie to put over this. I think I put David Fincher's movies, zodiac over this movie. Like it, has that sort of, like, procedural element to it. I think the suspense is really well done, and so, I think that we've seen this movie done better over the years, but it's definitely still worth watching, especially, because of everything we've talked about, with, you know, condemning the male gaze and having such a, you know, a really strong female protagonist, which you still don't see in movies like this. So, yeah, I'm coming out to an eight and a half out of ten. Where's everybody else?

1:10:15 Falling? I was leaning, I was leaning 9 9 out of 10 because I tried to put myself back in the shoes of the first time that I saw it, and the impact that it had, I was shook up after I watched that movie. So I got to go with that. And like I said, I'd continue to go back to it every couple of years. I'll be like, you know what, I'm gonna watch that again because there's just something that's so, I don't know, it's comforting about. I know that sounds crazy, but the level of performance and like that, I know what I'm going to get. Out of it. And yet I also know that there's going to be a level of intrigue every time I watch it, even though I know it's going to happen. I just don't find things like that all the time. So yeah. Agreed and I'm not stealing your score.

1:10:57 I promise. I thought this before but I also am going to give it a 9. I think that it's it's just a well-made movie on so many levels from the directing from the performances from the cinematography. That it just it stands up. It stands up to the test of time. So, yeah. Nice solid nine. Yeah, I were sounding like a broken record here, but I'm also going to give it a 9 out of 10. I think that one of my favorite Parts about this movie is how it is bookended, and I love when a director really takes into account, how a movie starts and How It Ends. And the way that the movie starts with this, this truly kind of creepy tone set by the music.

1:11:44 Like that Howard Shore has composed for it as you watch Jodie Foster run alone through a forest, kind of covered in fog a little bit and it ends with Hannibal Lecter and this kind of creepy music playing once again, as he slowly follows his next, you know, Quarry down the road, like, there's just this sense of unease from start to finish in this film and there's no resolution for it. Hannibal Lecter is a looming threat at the start of the The even though you don't know it yet and he is a looming threat at the end of the movie, just because he's alive. And there's something about that. That just I think it does stand the test of time as somebody who's seen it for the first time 30 years since its Inception. I'm all in man, this is a great film. Alright, well there you have it.

1:12:33 I am the lone person out here at an eight and a half but not too far off of what everybody else is bringing to the table with a 9 here. If you average out Brad and my score you come out to an At 75 out of 10, we would love to know what you think of this movie. Am, I just way off base and giving it an eight and a half out of ten, you can reach out to us on our social media where you can find us at film Whiskey on Facebook, Twitter or Instagram or you can leave us a voicemail. Let your voice be heard on the film and whiskey podcast, you can check us out on anchor dot f. M / film whiskey. Once again, we want to say thank you to our guest host, Chad. And Sarah, it has been wonderful to have you. Here and break down this movie and offer your expertise on this whiskey.

1:13:17 Thank you both so much for coming on the show. Before we head out. Do you have anything that you'd like to plug? Sure we've always got them plugs. That's right. You know, the the best place to find this is on YouTube. That's youtube.com slash, it's purba night but we also have a patreon page where you can get some extras. We do a show called another round of Chad and Sarah which is exclusive for patreon. So that's patreon.com/lenguin bourbon night. Right? And then we have whiskey Ambitions.com where we sell our merchandise. So we have our own Glenn Karen's and copito glasses, t-shirts, sweatshirts new stuff is in the work, so check it out. Absolutely olux, blocks and blocks, and blocks and blocks, and we're on Instagram.

1:14:02 Yeah, it's bourbon idea. Absolutely. If you're not following them yet on YouTube, or on Instagram, go immediately, their videos have been just super helpful informative for us as we've You need to do this podcast over the years. So once again, chat and Sarah, thank you for joining us today. Thank you so much for having us. This was so much fun. Our pleasure. I haven't gotten to talk about movies as much since College. Yeah it's a lot of fun. All right. Brad and I are going to be back next week in honor of international Holocaust Remembrance Day, we're going to be looking at the Best Picture Winner from 1993 Schindler's List. So join us for that next week but until then I'm Bob book, I'm Reggie and we'll see you next time.