The Searchers / Woodford Reserve Kentucky Straight Malt Whiskey

0:00 In 1950, director, John Ford and Star. John Wayne gave the world, an epic tale of a tenacious War, veteran with vengeance. In his heart. In 2022, we visit an unexpected place in search of a great malt. Whisky, the film is the Searchers, the whiskey is Woodford. Reserve, Kentucky straight malt whiskey. And we'll review them both. This is the film and whiskey podcast.

0:43 Welcome to the film and whiskey podcast, where each week, we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey. I'm Bob book, I'm Brad G and this week we are looking at John Ford's 1956, Masterpiece The Searchers Brad. This is a movie that I'm not going to lie, I don't know that I've been looking forward to talking about this movie. Like it's it's one of the highest reviewed your highest rated movies of all time. When the AFI first did their 100 best films list in 1998, it came in at 96 and the next time they did it in 2007. It was number 12. So we're talking about a movie that is very highly revered.

1:24 And we've mentioned it a lot of times on this podcast before that people like De Palma and Spielberg and Scorsese, hold this movie in super high esteem and yet it's a really controversial movie. It's a movie that a lot of people are very critical of for its portrayals of Native Americans and racism and having your main character. Be such a virulent and violent racist. And there's a lot to Grapple with in this movie and so I can't say that. I was like rubbing my Palms together. Like oh boy, oh boy, we get to watch The Searchers this week. In your dipalma's together. Hey, that's what people come to us for right there, that's it, man. Bee puns.

2:07 All right, everybody will be back next week. That's honestly, probably the best thing we can contribute to the conversation about the search awesome. This picture ba-bye, I came into this movie, just being wildly excited. Because I remember watching this movie when I was young with my dad and Really enjoying it. And I didn't always, like, westerns my view of westerns as a kid was, like, my dad likes them and they're often very long and very boring. This one, I did not remember being boring. I remember really enjoying as a kid and so I was kind of excited to come back to it and see where, you know, where I was at with it.

2:48 Now that I've got a few years of movie critiquing under my belt, there you go. Yeah, I think this is my third time seeing the film. I remember watching it in high school and just not being impressed with, At all. But I also think that I watched it on like a VHS that I rented from the library. So, like, you don't get the vistas of the John Ford cinematography. You don't have to rent from the library. Bob, you borrow the free. They actually charged me. They were like, no, no, that's five dollars for you because racism, because rates at some man. Yeah, so I didn't like it. The first time I saw it. I went back and try it again. A few years later. Because again, like all these filmmakers that I looked up to, To said that there was something there and I just I didn't click for me and so this was I think only my third time seeing it and I got to say man I got a lot more out of it this time but as a result of a lot of the conversations that you and I have had on prior episodes of this podcast.

3:45 And I think what I'm most excited for today is to draw comparisons to other films, we've seen and bring up points from conversations. We've had because they've really helped me in terms of processing. What you see on screen here in this movie. Yeah, there is so much happening in this film. What I really love about it, if I had to kind of boil it all down, the characters in this movie are fascinating and the cinematography is gorgeous and that there's just so much to love in those two veins. That for me the movie just moved at a really nice Pace to illustrate what the story was trying to tell you, you know, it's not the fastest.

4:28 Paste Western I've ever seen, but it definitely has a Cadence to it that gives you the feel for this, you know, five year Journey that our main characters go on. So that's actually my first question is it a five-year total Journey? Because I remember like the first time they come home, they say, oh, you guys have been gone for two years and then after that, they go back out, you know, searching and he writes her a letter and then they come back the second time and she said, you've been gone five years and only one. So I didn't know if that meant that they were gone for like seven or eight years total or if it was just one long chunk of five years, that's a very good question. Bob I'm, you know, just for the the feel of it I'm going to say it was like 7 years.

5:11 Yeah, let's just say it because that that makes it feel a little more epic because you know spending five years of your life searching you know the great vast plains of the West is absolutely nothing. That's just, you know, Child's Play. I think that you've hit the nail on the head by using the word Epic. Rick. And that's, you know, this movie is known for the the Lush cinematography and the Monument Valley settings that John Ford loved to return to. But this is one of the most beautiful looking of all westerns. And what's really funny to me Brad will get into talking about it later is how about half the movie is like it looks like a mega Budget on location, gorgeously rendered movie and then the other half is like, all right, we've got a garage and I need you to like pay The walls to look like we're outside at a campsite and then like the other part of the movies, just like real rough looking, when it comes to the sets, but I wanted to say with the, the Epic nature of the movie. This is something that David lean would go on record saying he watched this movie over and over and over again before he made, Lawrence of Arabia to learn how to film a landscape and we've got Lawrence of Arabia coming up here just in a few weeks on the podcast.

6:24 So I'm really excited to see again the the points of connection. Action that we're going to find between the Searchers and so many other films that we've done before and are doing, you know, in the coming weeks. Yeah, I mean the movie that is known for its Vistas got its, you know, the Searchers was at stomping grounds. It will. So like, there's got to be something that you're looking for when it comes to the Searchers. And I, yeah, I guess my hope is that people don't let the the conversation around the Searchers steer them away. From the movie because I think it's a really worthwhile movie that a is just a beautiful film and be I think it probably adds to the conversation on how racism is depicted in films. Mmm, and like, what is taboo and what is actually like helpful to the conversation?

7:18 And I will get into that later, but I think this movie is, is successful on a lot of fronts. Bob, totally agree. All right, man, let's go ahead and jump into Brad explains this. Is the part of the podcast where Brad breaks down the plot of the movie that he has just seen often for the first time. And again, remind me this, this is not your first time seeing it, right? No, I saw when I was young, so this is my second time seeing it, all right? You've got 60 seconds on the clock. Can you break down the plot of The Searchers? Yeah. Ethan Edwards is a Civil War veteran of the Confederate side of the war. He returns home to Texas, he Is unmarried. So he goes back to his brothers Homestead. His the whole family is really excited to see him. They go out to search for some Native Americans who have been stealing cattle, killing cattle at a neighbor's Ranch. And it turns out that they were doing that, just to distract the men so that they could go raid, the actual Homestead. His brothers family is mostly all killed and his two nieces are taken by The Native American tribe, the Comanches, the and the rest of the movie is he and man who was adopted by his brothers family, as they search for the two girls who were taken.

8:40 Eventually they find out that one of them has been killed and they keep searching until they're able to rescue their nice. And that's pretty much it I think. Yeah, I mean you know, we left out that John Wayne's character is just the worst. Human being of all time, is it? I mean, He's saying I'm sorry think of he's having some other bad human beings I would say he's up there for sure but it does the right thing in the end. Yeah, well I don't know how long I'm gonna be able to go today without going really deep on this movie because I think the only way this movie works is when you look at it through certain prisms of interpretation and and you understand that what they're doing with the John Wayne character does not mean that they are endorsing. What the John Wayne character is doing but you also try to get inside the mind of the John Wayne character and figure out like what's driving Ethan aside from just hatred and racism like what's what's the root cause of all this. And I think it takes you in some really interesting places. But again, like this is the kind of thing. We would normally discuss on the back part of the episode. And now we just have to kind of talk about like who gave a good performance but it's just it's really hard to talk about this movie without just immediately jumping into. Psychoanalyze this main character. Yeah, I mean, when you jump into the character of Ethan Edwards, he might be one of the most, one of the more nuanced characters we've ever looked at, especially

10:13 in a western. Mmm, westerns are kind of known for. I mean, if I'm being honest there, the Ridiculousness of the characters. Like I think about the movie McLintock. Sorry, McClintock, I'm gonna talk forgot the exclamation point and like John Wayne's character in that is, you know, a little over-the-top as is every other person in that movie. I mean, he has, he has Marine O'Hara over his knee and he's spanking her right? And like other people are laughing at them, and it's just a ridiculous movie. And I think a lot of westerns can kind of fall into that vein, even some the Clint Eastwood stuff. This one is not that Bob.

11:00 No, it's not. And I think this is a good place to kind of talk about. You know, let's at least start talking about the characters racism and motivations because you know, John Wayne is has not aged. Well, let's just say it like that. Like just check the Mythos of John Wayne is not aged well into 2022. And his off screen Persona, I think often gets conflated with his on-screen persona, but every once in a while, John Ford would do some sort of little what's the word subversive thing with with John Wayne and get him to play a character that went against type and not just went against tight but like actively interrogated, the things that the John, Wayne type is known for doing and that's kind of what you get here and I always found it funny that people look at Ethan Edwards in this movie and how he's a complicated character who is objectively, a horrible.

11:58 A person. And they they try to question. John Ford, for being like, why would you make this the hero of the movie? Why would you make us root for this person? When I think the whole point of the movie is to ask that difficult question and it's a lot more problematic when he's just doing casually racist things in the movies. Like, McClintock. That never go, examined. Do you know what I mean? Like, that movie is just super misogynistic and probably racist. But like, yes, but because it's not, Explicitly. So or it's not like dealing with themes of racism, it's almost like we don't even talk about that but I find those to be the more problematic roles than this one. Yeah, this one the way his racism is portrayed. I think that you have Jeffrey Hunter who plays Martin pawley who, you know, is the second lead in this the way those two interact really gives you kind of like, I don't know, the the the yin and yang of this movie that, you know, John Wayne's character really represents chaos and darkness and evil in a lot of ways and and Martin pawley represents like the pure-hearted search and preservation of an innocent Soul.

13:20 Yeah. Like I think that I think that the way those two characters are written, I don't like honestly I don't understand why people. I would hate on Ethan Edwards so much because they love anti-heroes nowadays, right? Like all the like all the Batman's have to be these dark brooding almost evil Heroes and and if we love that like this is just a really early version of an antihero. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I would go that far. I think he's still. I think it's of just a complicated character and you could call him the protagonist because he's like the main character of the movie. He's definitely not a hero and I don't understand, I think It's too simplistic to read this movie in that way.

14:01 That to suggest that John Ford didn't know what he was doing here. And in fact, like all indications show that John Ford actually like made the character significantly darker than what was actually in the script and had him doing more explicitly racist things. So that it was so obvious to the audience, what kind of person he was and to take a step back from, you know, dissecting this character I think at the end of the day this is probably John Wayne's best. And he doesn't win an Oscar for this movie. He doesn't win until True Grit in 1969 which is again a more conventional John Wayne type performance. And I think because you have him playing against type here because Ford is drawing out this kind of character that interrogates, the idea of the white man in the west and this sense of the Comanches are corrupting. Our white Heritage is such an interesting character and Wayne actually, I think does a great job in this movie in the first Few scenes, he's playing John Wayne and I'm like, oh God. It's going to be another one of these movies, isn't it? And as the movie goes on, you know, Ford uses these incredible close-ups.

15:08 And every time he does a close up on John Wayne's face, I've never seen it looking so Haggard, and tired, and rundown, and sad, and it's not the heroic, kind of cocky, you know, Swagger of a normal John Wayne performance. This is a very different type of man, and I think Wayne She does a really good job portraying that. Yeah and and once again I think it's really the performance of Martin pawley that are of Jeffrey Hunter as Martin pawley. That kind of draws out those nuances in his in his character that it is Polly. Who provides someone for Ethan to bounce off of, who is a conscience to show?

15:54 How deep and how far gone Ethan, Edwards is yep. And hopefully, you know, at the end of the movie, when he doesn't kill his knees. It's hopefully, because he's been watching, you know, Martin's dedication to the cause of saving her. That has also redeemed, Ethan's heart as well. All right, let's talk about Jeffrey Hunter a little bit and I guess I'll just start by saying, I think that John Wayne out acts everyone in this movie by a lot. Yeah. And when John Wayne is your best actor by a lot Um, do you know what I mean? Like I think the simplest way to say it is that everyone else in this movie is acting as if they are in a western that was filmed in 1956.

16:41 Like there's a certain type of acting that you see in westerns, I don't know how to explain it. I guess you could call it over acting but it never gives the sense of oh this is probably what it was like on the frontier. It's just know. These people are in a western and it's the same kind of acting. In whether it's in a John Ford movie, or whether it's an episode of Gunsmoke on TV, they all act the same and Jeffrey Hunter and Vera Miles and everybody else in this movie acts in that way. And the only person who's doing anything remotely different from that is John Wayne. And I think honestly like maybe that was even intentional by John Ford as another way of demonstrating that this person Ethan is so far out of the norm of what you would see, in a movie like this, and also to demonstrate, he doesn't belong here and that's kind of Like the last image of the movie is like, he doesn't, this, this person is doomed, to never have a home and to be forced to wander and suffer the consequences of like what he's done in life and I kind of wonder if the way that the other actors are acting kind of helps tip that off a little bit because Ethan acts so differently than everyone else.

17:50 Yeah, he like just has this burdened look to him and and he just Feels weary and like, when I think about the life of a of a Rancher Cowboy, you know, Civil War veteran in the mid and the late 1800s, I think of Ethan Edwards. I don't think of somebody like anybody else I've ever seen in a western because, like you said, there's, there's a specific type of acting that was going on in westerns and the janja's comes in That. And he blows it up. Yeah. Like he just absolutely takes it to another level. And like you said, I feel like when I'm watching Ethan Edwards, I'm watching somebody who was alive in that time period and has has lived in the dust of the desert for decades. It almost seems like it would belong more at home in the kind of spaghetti westerns that you would see a decade later. And that's not to say that those movies are not over-the-top either.

18:58 But when I think about the good, the bad, the ugly, and the moments in that movie, where Clint Eastwood goes and visits the home of, you know, a farmer and his wife or whatever and how they just look. So beaten down by life and they act so much more, you know, naturalistic I guess. And it also seems to be like one of the few Hollywood performances that allows the main character to get that sort of haggard look about him, similar to what we saw with, with Bogart in Treasure of the Sierra Madre. I think that's another good example of something. Like this. But I said all that to say Jeffrey Hunter not a great actor and also like, it's so obvious when it's put up against what John Wayne is doing here.

19:41 Yeah, I think that I almost didn't even notice it because I knew I was watching a western. Hmm. And like growing up watching enough westerns you just you know what to expect and you're almost okay with it. Like I don't know. It's like when you watch a cartoon versus watching Game of Thrones like, there's certain tropes that are going to happen in a cartoon that don't happen in a TV show, like, Game of Thrones, they're both television shows but you know, you're okay with one thing because you've grown up watching them and I think that's kind of how I feel about Jeffrey Hunter in this movie. I'm like oh yeah he's great man. He's, he's just kind of a whiny young guy who was trying to do his best in the world and he knows that he's in a western movie and same thing with Vera Miles. Yeah.

20:29 I mean, before we get to Vera Miles, the Jeffrey Hunter thing for me is very much like watching Mark, Hamill in the first Star Wars, where he's like him. I was gonna go get some power converters, like the think, just the whole movie and I'm just like, oh, that's Jeffrey Hunter. He's just doing that with for the whole new. You want to start the Star Wars fight from season 1 again like we can get into it man. We don't need to talk about the surgeries that he might even saying that like and again, I did. I did kind of think, Mark, Hamill was not great in the first Star Wars movie, but it's more just that like, the whiny little boy, Act only goes so far and in Star Wars after, you know, in like the second and third act like, all right, we're done with that. Now, in this movie, you know, it's like five to seven years later and now he's like a grown man, and he's still doing that whole thing. And I just liked by the two-hour Mark, I was, I was done with Martin pawley.

21:22 I will say. All right, so you mentioned Vera Miles. Vera Miles is a good actress. This is at least the second movie that we've had her on the podcast. Probably her. Most famous role is in Psycho where she plays, mmm, Janet Leigh's, sister. Alfred Hitchcock was obsessed with Vera Miles. He wanted to make her, like the next big thing. I think she was supposed to be the lead in Vertigo and then she got pregnant and so he couldn't use her in Vertigo is either vertigo or North by Northwest and and then she never really took off after that. And she She, you know, the rumor has always been that. Like once she got pregnant, like Hitchcock wasn't interested in her anymore and just like yeah, you know, you know, the creepy old man being a creepy old man. I think she's fine here.

22:03 But once again, she's doing the like I don't know if they're just like directing these two people as if to say like you are 16 years old, when they're both clearly late 20s or older, but they're acting like 15 year, olds the whole movie. And I think that really just got super Eating and got on my nerves after a while, huh. Yeah, once again, I guess a I was kind of wrapped up in John Wayne's performance and be. It, it just didn't strike me as any different than any other Western I'd seen. Hmm. So it felt like it just fit what the movie was going for as far as as their romance would go. So yeah, I wasn't really bothered by her performance. I thought that she was appropriately. Ridiculously funny, as I would expect her to be in a western sure.

22:56 Now, on the other hand, if there's somebody in this movie that comes in and just matches, John Wayne, like, tit-for-tat, in this movie, it's Ward Bond. Who is a, John Ford regular and a super unsung underrated actor. I mean, he's been in so many movies, like he popped up in a bit part in Gone With the Wind, he was Burt in, He wasn't Burt, he's in It's a Wonderful Life. He drives the cap and It's a Wonderful Life. Yeah, and births. The cop Bert's the cop. Okay. And Ernie is the cab driver, right? That's where they got Bert and Ernie from for Sesame Street, yes, okay, maybe he is Bert, I don't know whatever, he's in, It's a Wonderful Life.

23:39 He's at his best in this movie, he is so good in this movie in a very thankless role in a role that really doesn't contribute to much to the the main Central plot of the movie. Except that. That he's a much smarter person than John Wayne gives him credit for playing this, you know, this dual Texas Ranger who is also a pastor and I think Brad that I want to draw attention to one scene in the movie because it's going to become really Central to my analysis on the movie later. And it's the scene at the very beginning where he comes to visit and he happens to look into another room in the homestead and John Wayne's.

24:21 Brother's wife is in this other room, like holding a piece of his clothing or something and just cradling it and like caressing it. And you can tell that he's not eavesdropping, but he seemed something that he isn't supposed to be seeing and he just kind of very silently processes. This information that he's seeing and he sees Ethan come in the room after him and he doesn't make eye contact with either one of them but you know, Ethan gives her a kiss on the forehead and it's very obvious that Ethan's in love with his brother's wife and she is in love with him. And it's never touched on again, for the rest of the movie. But I actually think that scene is like the driving force behind this whole film, and it only really works because of how good Ward Bond is in that scene. Yeah, he just has this silent intensity and intelligence to the way he watches, what's unfolding in front of him, where it all clicks into place for him and because of that, it clicks into place for the Z because I don't think that there's enough in the other scenes to pick up on these. You know, the wife's love for Ethan and and you know his love for her and yet that little scene like you said it provides the main thrust for why he would be willing to search for her and I believe it at some point, man, I'm trying to remember if it's him or somebody else.

25:46 I think he goes it's not what Martha would have wanted. Yeah, when he's talking about Debbie being, you know, a Comanche Indian essentially, right? And so that's like his justification for why he would kill her and it like, that's kind of the only call back to it. But it's such a powerful move to move from the first part of the movie of like, oh, like they're in love with each other and they can't be together. Once again, establishing the John Wayne cannot live in this world forever to the end of the movie. Where it's like, this is my reason for killing my niece, which is a brutal. Dark sentiment have in a western, you know, just a little bit. All right, before we go to break Brad, is there anybody else that you want to touch on in the cast?

26:30 I mean, obviously, we know we've got Natalie Wood, who has been on the show a few times and it just happens to find herself in some of the best movies ever made. Like she's Debbie in this movie for four minutes and just like, all right, check that off the, you know, off the list and here in one of the greatest movies of all time, she doesn't really contribute anything. But our boy John qualen. From Grapes of Wrath shows back up in that van. He's back not as good this time. No, not quite as good. He's doing a voice that I would describe as Swedish Geppetto like he kind of sounds like. Well, my peanut oil Kyoto, but he's doing it with a Swedish accent, 100%. So you know, it feels like he was going, I don't know.

27:12 I guess you're against any was going for Swedish. I it sounded to me like he was trying for Italian almost yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like it went back and forth between Norway and Italy. It wasn't great. I don't care. I like seeing him. It was great to see him. My favorite character in the movie, by by a country mile. Oh, good expression. Charlie maccorry. Oh yeah. Played by Ken Ken Curtis and Curtis, they like are trying to sell, he's just the worst match for Veer miles that you could ever imagine. And then they were like, you know, we need to give him something. And so he starts playing on his guitar and singing, I think Skip to My Lou and he has like a phenomenal voice but that he starts talking again. And like, if you haven't seen the movie, I'm genuinely not exaggerating when I say it.

28:08 Just gotta sound like this and he goes Lori, I love you so much. It's just not a voice that a real human would have liked at all. But then he It's singing. And he's got this beautiful like country little to his voice and you're like, oh he's he's 100% just putting this on, it's ridiculous that I I'm here for it 100%. The funny thing is, he has the jawline and that sort of like, really chiseled Look to Him and the same almost the same teeth as John Carradine who we've been talking about with other Ford movies.

28:48 And I was like that, that's not John Carradine. It'd be so much older by the The time, we got to this movie. Who is that guy? You know, and it's obviously no relation but it's so funny because we had just talked about the Carradine's in last week's episode and then Ken Curtis comes in here and like messed with my mind for a little bit because he looks like he could be related to them. And that's what I think. I love about this movie is that, while it is this kind of dark portrait of a man trying to reckon with who he is. It's also just this really kind of Light-hearted tale about a young man trying to balance out Duty versus love. And the shenanigans that he gets into, you know, Finding himself with a Native American Wife.

29:36 And, you know, fighting the most ridiculous person ever and Charlie maccorry. And it, it's just light-hearted in the right moments and serious. And most of the film that I, I just like, what Ford was able to do with this, Movie. That's really interesting to me. I'm looking forward to our conversation in the second half of the episode because I have a feeling that the things you really liked about this movie and that helped sell it to you are probably going to be my least favorite parts of this movie. And yet, it sounds like we actually might come out in a similar place when we give our final scores here. So I think we're in for a good conversation here, Brad. Let's hit pause. Now, let's try this Woodford. Reserve, malt, whiskey, what do you say? Let's get to it.

30:25 Alright, so today we are checking out Woodford. Reserve malt, whisky Kentucky, straight malt whiskey Brad. This is a very interesting whiskey from Woodford, because it's not a single malt. Like it is not made completely from malt, it's only 51% malted barley in the mash bill so it is just barely enough malt to be called a malt. 51% malted barley 7%, corn, 2% Rye. So this is very close to being a bourbon. If we're talking percentages here, like all of their releases or most of them, at least, it clocks in, at 90.4, proof it is not age stated, but it is listed as a Kentucky, straight malt. So, I'm assuming everything in here is at least two years old, probably older than that, Brad.

31:09 The reason we're pairing this up today is because we have talked with the master distiller of Woodford. Chris Morris on many occasions. And very recently, we just saw him at the Kentucky bourbon. Evil and we talked about how his favorite movie is the Searchers. So we said, you know, in honor of Chris Morris, let's have some Woodford. And this is the next one. In their lineup that we have not yet. Tried, I'm excited to get into this malt. Yeah. I was in saying, this is a part of their Series where they try to honor each of the original grains that we used here in America to make whiskey. And I've got to say man, this is a beautiful smelling whiskey. I was really Blown Away with the notion Those. So I'm starting to realize that the note of like young grain that I associate with like, a really young bourbon smells a lot like malt because this smells like a really young whiskey to me and I don't know that it necessarily is I mean it's possible that all this is just you know two years and a day old who knows, but I think I'm just picking up a lot of the maltiness but because there's so much corn in the mash bill, this just kind of presents to me as a really, really young. And I can't quite shake that and I think it's because we've never had a malted whiskey where it's like almost equivalent Malta corn ratio.

32:28 So that's really screwing with my pet, like, not my palate but my nosing here is this? Just smells like a really young bourbon to me. See, I didn't feel like it was a young bourbon at all II. Got a lot of peanuts and caramel on the nose, there was some cherry cordial and then it was almost like a little bit creamy. Almost like a whipping cream and I I thought it was like really decadent the only part of it. It wasn't very it even kind of smelled a little thin like like you can kind of tell when a whiskey is going to have some legs and this didn't have that but honestly I sat with this just smelling it for about 10 minutes and I couldn't stop getting all sorts of like creamy Cherry nutty notes and I really liked it. I I'm going to give the nose a 9 out of 10 Wow. All right I'm definitely not there. I am picking up some of the peanuts that you're talking about and for me it almost tastes like when you crack open a fresh canister of Oats, not like oatmeal but just like steel cut oats or something.

33:32 Like there's this, this very kind of freshly cut grain to this and I think again, I'm trying to distinguish it from being a young bourbon because that's not what this is. But it's definitely grain forward. I think I'm I am. What's the word? Word cautiously optimistic. But I'm just going to give it a six and a half on the nose. Well, in the. And then we got into the taste and Bob, I will say it was pretty disappointing when I got into it. The first note that I wrote down was thin, it is like I don't know if I've ever had a Woodford product, that promised so much and then came across so thin and I was really struggling to get a lot of notes on it. I think I got kind of a cocoa and pepper. Flavors going on.

34:21 Yeah. But not a ton outside of that. I was struggling with the palette. I'll give it a six out of ten. Yeah, I'm with you it's thin. I thought it did. It had a lot of flavor concentrated into it. The problem is that there's just not many flavors going on. And so for me, it's just kind of like Oak all the way through and Woodford, is for me, at least very Oak forward. In general. Like, their bourbon zoki, their double oaked is obviously very very Aoki. This just kind of tastes like Barrel to me and behind that. There's, there's black pepper, you're right about that. And then there was just like this little wisp on the back of my palate, which I've never gotten on a whiskey before of celery or like a coriander.

35:07 Like there's just something I like it. Just tasted like I snapped into a fresh stalk of celery. It was really interesting. It almost gave it kind of like a like that vegetal note we get on Rise sometimes and Like that. But there's very little sweetness here for me. There's not a lot of complexity. Again, I don't mind it but I just don't think it's great. I'm going to give it a six and a half on the palate. Yeah. And I think the Finish is about where the the palette was for me, it became very malty, very Oaky, some of that pepper kind of stuck through to the end, it had a little bit of a Kentucky hug to finish things off, but nothing amazing.

35:47 I think I'll stick it. 6 out of 10 for the Finish. Oh yeah, I think for me the Finish is probably the high point of this. I just took a second Sip and the cocoa is really coming through on the second sip. I like that a lot and its present on the Finish. There's not a ton of Oak left on my pallet their way, the way that it was when I first took a sip and so I think the Finish is nice and mouth-watering. It's not an especially hot whiskey. Like I'm not feeling it going down but that gets back to your note of it being thin earlier. I still think the Finish is probably the best thing here. I'm going to give it a An 8 out of 10 on finish. Yeah. And then on balance I'll give it a six and a half on balance. I think it's disappointing off the nose that I really enjoyed. But overall I think once you get into what you're getting into with this whiskey you kind of know what's happening and it gives you what you expect from the palette on. So yeah, I'll give it a six and a half on the balance. I'm gonna give it a seven.

36:45 I think this is a pretty good whiskey, it just kind of drinks. Like it's 80 proof or 85 proof rather than 90 proof. And with you on that like there's is just a very thin kind of watery experience. I guess I just don't know Brad like Who's this for? Hmm you know what I mean? And I yeah like this is going to sound like one of the most critical things I've ever said about a whiskey and I don't mean it that way because listeners to this podcast. Know I love Woodford Reserve but like there's really good American single malts out there. There's really good blended Scotch out there there's really good single malt scotch out there that I would recommend to beginners in the world of malted whiskies and I just don't know. Like is this supposed to be a game? Gateway into drinking malt is this just like hey this was a fun thing for us to make, so we're going to keep putting it out.

37:37 I don't really know who I'm supposed to be recommending this to yeah, I'm with you man. And I think that kind of takes us into our value category. You know, this is this is priced with all of their Baseline offerings. It's 36 dollars in the state of Ohio. And I think you can get that pretty readily across the country. I don't know like a 5 and a half for Value because I'm with you that there's a There's the reality that I just don't know who would want to pay $35 for this. Because I think there's a lot of other options out there in this price range. That might just give you a better experience with malt. I agree, I don't see. This is the hard thing is like, what are we comparing it to, to know that?

38:21 It's a bad value, where we comparing it to woodford's, Bourbon because this is markedly worse than their bourbon rate. Are we comparing It to a blended whiskey. That's $35 like a monkey shoulder because I think this is probably like about as good as monkey shoulder, but I probably still PicMonkey shoulder. I mean, it has a monkey on the bottom. That's true. This has no monkeys. So Point points off for no monkeys. Yeah, I guess that's what my big struggle is. Like, it's hard to find a value on this. I don't think 36. 35 dollars is really overpriced but I just don't really know what's the comparison Point here. So I'm going to give it a six out of ten on value. That brings me out to a 34 out of 50 Bobby. I'm sitting at a thirty two point five out of 50. Oh wow, okay.

39:09 All right. So that brings us to a 66 and a half out of 100 or a thirty. Three point two five out of 50 which is kind of one of our lower ones this season Brad. And here's the thing, I don't think this is a bad whiskey. Hmm. I don't even know that I would call this a mediocre whiskey. Like it's it's not bad but yeah, I don't know that there's anything here for me to be like Yes, go buy a bottle or even yes, drop eight to nine dollars on a poor of this at a bar, right? Like it's good if someone has it at their house, like it's certainly worth drinking, but among Woodford products. This is probably one of my least favorites. Yeah. I mean if you have a group of people that you're, you know, drinking whiskey with and, you know, five people want to go in on a bottle, go for it.

39:56 Like yeah. It's worth spending a few bucks, have a few pores but overall, I think I'm Man, I don't know if I can recommend at the bar or, you know, in your house. All right. Well, that is been Woodford. Malted whiskey, Brad. Let's get back into talking about the Searchers, what do you say? Yeah, I'm super pumped man. Let's get back to it. All right, everybody that was Woodford, Reserve. Kentucky straight malt whiskey whiskey, that Bob and I were decent on, that's okay, yeah, it was fun. You know what we are more than fine with Bob, is it to fax in a falsehood, it's two facts enough also this is like, really, really quickly. Turning into my favorite segments of our podcast, like a blast.

40:47 It's fun. It's fun to do. It gives some some interesting facts, it creates a little bit of competition which, you know, we're Americans. So we're suckers for that. It's a good time man. So for those of you who don't know, this is the part of the podcast, where Brad will present three things to me all of them. As fact, when in reality, one of them is a complete lie. And I have to guess which one is the LIE. Brad has been getting better and better at writing these and so it's been getting very hard but I'm well over 500 now I think Brad I think I'm like a and six are the year. Does that sound right believe? So yeah you've been on a run for a while here well that ends soon my friend. I know I know you well enough and I didn't do a whole lot of research on the making of this movie.

41:31 So this might be the day you get me Brad but hit me with your two facts and a falsehood. Well, I will say this is a little bit of a Scramble for me because one of my facts had been that David lean washes as inspiration for Lawrence of Arabia and I almost kept that to myself and just say so There may or may not be a portion of the first half of the episode where I'm not listening to you. And instead looking up another one to right? Do you just do just want to let me do a 50-50 coin. Flip on the two remaining things I don't. I'm so mad at myself. I mean, if you were like one and 12 right now than sure, yeah, I'd give it to you, but here's the this competition Bob, here's the thing that thing about David lean came directly off of the Searchers Wikipedia page, Age and I was like, no bread.

42:21 Does more than just read the Wikipedia page? I could probably get away with saying this David lean thing. Yeah, sure. Of course. All right, Bob fax number one John, Wayne a decently famous actor. He loved the role of Ethan Edwards so much that he ended up naming his youngest son. Ethan. Yeah. And I managed to the role that yikes, you know, that's a big No-No. Fact. Number two, and Baxter was originally cast to play Lori j��rgensen. However, she took the role of nefertari in a little old movie, nobody's problem. Only heard of called The Ten Commandments which led to Vera Miles being cast in the role. Instead fact number three Lena would played young Debbie Edwards and Natalie Wood?

43:11 Her older sister played Teenage W Edwards. Should I scan the Wikipedia page? Very quickly is what I should. Yeah. Cheating. Cheating is the answer, Bob shootings, always the answer. I think three is true. I mean, I, I'm pretty sure the actress's name was Lana wood. So I'm going to assume that was Natalie, Wood, sister and Baxter. Seems like she would be too old for this role but John Ford has demonstrated that he doesn't care how old you are. You can still play a teenager But you know, and Baxter very famous for All About Eve and she was clearly in her mid to late 20s then and it we're talking six years after that. Now I just feel like she was probably too old for this movie. The John Wayne thing I'm staying away from because it seems like a stupid idea to name your kid after your most racist character.

44:08 However, I mean who's to say, it's John Wayne, right? So I'm going to say twos the falsehood But I wouldn't and Baxter. Yes, I won't be surprised if one's the falsehood, but I'm going to say to Bob, you are nail on the head. Correct. All right, and Baxter, I looked it up because I wanted to check the age difference to make sure that they weren't, you know, too far off. Do you want to know how much older and Baxter is than Vera Miles? How old was Vera Miles? Well, I'm sorry. I'm not sure how little they were with. They were in this. She's six years older than that beer - wow. And you too.

44:49 You literally just said, you're like yeah, she's probably about six years, too old for this role. Well yeah, you nailed it, man. I got it. All right. Cool, Anne was born in 23 and Vera was born in 29. All right. Well, there you go, ma'am. I'm having a good year so far a good season. It dude. All right, Brad. Well from the the highest highs. Dive immediately into the racist. Undertones of this film is nose dive right into that. Honestly, I'm weirdly excited for this conversation because I've had so many questions about media and their depiction of things that are like taboo and like the question that I guess I'll use to frame this conversation and maybe this is more towards modern media, but I think you can apply it towards older. Films as well at what point is the parody of something bad. Not bad, because it's a parody.

45:50 Hmmm. Does that make sense? Yeah, like, I feel and, you know, I'm going to use political terms here, and I hope people don't get too much into an uproar about it, but like, I feel like when I watch more left-leaning, things like Saturday Night Live, it feels like they will often parody somebody who is racist or somebody who, you know, they don't like. But they'll We'll have those characters do really bad evil racist things but it's funny because we're making fun of it but I'm like at what point and and I just brought up Saturday Night Live the right does the same things. I'm not trying to like, you know, cast stones here.

46:32 And what I'm trying to point out is like, at what point is portraying racism, just bad and at what point is it helpful because we go, oh yeah, we all know that, that's bad and it's good for young. Generations to see it so they can see how bad it is and not do it themselves like that. It's does that make sense? It's really funny that you brought up Saturday Night Live because I was thinking about a similar show, 30 Rock, which I think is a hilarious show. I love 31 and in the first season of 30 Rock the character that's played by Jane Krakowski. Yep. As a flashback and you find out that that this very white, very blond woman is actually of Native American ancestry and that your parents did It approve of her dream to be an actress and they kicked her off the reservation.

47:21 And I think to get back to what you're asking. The reason that I think that scene works. And the funny thing about it is, I've seen people poopoo that seen as like, this is racist. Why would you, why would you even portray this? The reason that scene works is because the Native Americans are not the butt of the joke in that scene, like the the whole joke is she's a white person and we're trying to portray. We're trying to play this off. To you that it that it would even be plausible that she's a Native American. And I think the fact that Native Americans are in on the joke but not the butt of the joke. I think plays a big role in it and so I kind of want to use that as my framing device to talk about the racism in and of this movie because I don't have a problem with anything.

48:10 John Wayne's character is saying, you know, in terms of like he's very clearly racist, he's very clearly wrong. He's very clearly Blinded by hatred and the movie does a very good job of portraying that and like there's there's really no ambiguity there. And so anyone who has a problem with that I think is just not watching the movie close enough. I think there is a legitimate conversation to be had though about the way that John Ford kind of muddies up the waters a little bit because it seems at times like he's trying to make a statement about this, this violently racist person, but then he throws in kind of like a slapstick humor scene. Where this imbecile Moe's is pretending to be a Native American and using all the most offensive stereotypes to do that. And the, the joke in that scene, is an even like, hey, Moses, dumb, the joke in that scene is like, isn't it funny that he's doing these things?

49:05 And I think that's part of where if you're going to talk about things that have not held up. Well from this movie, it's those kind of things where it's like John Ford seems to almost be undermining the argument. He's trying to make by including those things. I don't know. Does that make sense? It does and I'm curious how you feel about the miscommunication scene because I feel like which one which one is this when when Martin shali is trading for some, you know, a blanket and some Goods. Oh yeah. You know, he doesn't realize that he's actually trading for a wife and I'm kind of curious because there's part of me, that's like there's a lot like it all. Feels like a Trope that when, you know, when white people meet a foreign or a native tribe of some sorts, it's like, oh yeah, they're they're not able to communicate and they miss communicate and they trade the wrong things. So it doesn't feel like it's outside the realm of the miscommunication between races, you know, Trope but it doesn't. It just didn't fit super well.

50:15 No, it didn't and There's so many directions, we can go here. But one thing that I really love is something that Roger Ebert wrote about this movie, and he basically said that, like the Fatal flaw of this movie, is that it's trying to be two movies in one and it's trying to be this really serious and dark and kind of like soul-searching movie when it's about John Wayne's character. And then it's trying to be like this sort of over-the-top broad comedy. Every time we returned to the home front and that it just the The Clash of those two. Owns doesn't really work and this is something that I wanted to talk to you about because it sounds like from your point of view that actually really made the movie work for you. But I think for me, it almost serves to undermine the point of the movie and a scene, like what you're talking about I think is a perfect illustration of that.

51:06 Where it becomes like slapstick, it's like that slapstick. It's okay to have little moments like that, but it just seems to upend what towards trying to get at in so many other parts of the movie. Well, I think that the issue with, you know, specifically the, I'll just keep calling it the miscommunication trading sequence, the issue with it, isn't that the miscommunication happens, it's the way that that Martin pawley responds to it and how like you said earlier, how childish he is. He, you know, she like, lays down next to him, not, not even in a sexual way. Like she just lays down next to Her now husband and he takes both feet rears back in like, kicks her down this hill and you know, John Wayne is laughing about it and Martin's telling him to shut up like like it's not funny and and it's just not funny. None of it's funny but I think that that scene could have worked, you know, I think that if there's The Accidental communication John Wayne pokes out a little bit but then they just get on with the seriousness of their hunt. And, you know, she helps them with their hunt. I think that there could have been a meaningful interaction there of like, you know, Ethan realizing like, you know, maybe maybe I'm not as as right about these Native Americans, as I thought I was, and there could have been a meaningful relationship there and her death

52:37 could have felt more powerful and I'm like that, it just felt like there's a missed opportunity with her character to make some slapstick comedy jokes. Yeah. No, I totally agree. N, I don't know, this is I guess what I'll do now, if it's okay with you is I want to present what I think is actually the better way of reading this movie and the racism obviously is there and it's a lens through which to read this movie. But if I can give a preview of my pick for, let's make it a double, we've been doing this thing every week where we pick a movie to serve as a double feature for the movie that we've just seen and Brad. If I had to pick a movie to line up with this movie, it would be one that we just recently.

53:17 Currently watched and it would be Raging Bull and it's because of what is driving both of the main characters in these movies. And it wasn't until I really started reading through this little book from the British Film Institute about the Searchers written by the author. Edward bus comb and he talks about how the best way to look at this movie is through the sexual lens and how that key scene with John Wayne like longing and lusting. After his, brother's wife is the key to this. Movie that he has internalized his own kind of self-hatred for doing this to his brother and then he gets his brother and his brother's wife killed in his own eyes and he internalizes that even further.

54:01 And it's very similar to what we saw with Jake LaMotta in Raging Bull where he has this outward hatred and pushes everyone away. But it's because of his own kind of impotence and, you know, like sexual impotence but also inability to Relate to other people and that he gets to the point where he's almost like calling down divine retribution on himself and the way Busco and reads this movie is that John Wayne's character is motivated mostly by revenge for what this, you know, this Chief did to the long-lost love of his life. But he points out that those two characters Scar and Ethan are basically mirror images of each other that they're, they're equally brutal towards the In that they know how to, you know, psychologically damaged their enemy. And it gets to the point where he wants to kill Natalie Woods character because he sees her as being corrupted, by the the Native Americans because he assumes that she's been raped or they've had sex with her in some way. And he has this almost like Travis Bickle, kind of view of like, he's like, sexually messed up from lusting after his brother's wife.

55:17 And because of that like he takes that his own self hatred out on the Indians, the Native Americans and saying like oh like they're corrupting our white women that way and the more I thought about this interpretation the movie the more I'm like, oh I actually think this is the best way to read this character. That his own inner self conflict and self-loathing is what is motivating his Psychopathic violence toward them. You know, there's a great chapter in this book where he talks about that scene, where John Wayne goes off and just like massacres a Native Americans. And you they just never talk about it again. But you can only imagine like what he did to all of them. And he reads the ending of this movie where John Wayne rides into this little village finds scar dead and scalps. Him as sort of like this is John Wayne's, final Act of Revenge. He did something like to violate this man's body that he saw as being equivalent to what this guy did to the love of his life. And because of that, his his bloodlust is, I don't know satiated and that's what allows him to go back to Natalie Wood at the end of the movie and not want to kill her anymore because he you know, his need for vengeance has been met and I'm like, okay I get it now.

56:33 Like I actually think that really put this movie in perspective for me is holding it up in a very similar light to what we saw from somebody like Jake LaMotta in Raging Bull. Well and it also for me Illustrated the negative end place that you come to in a when you in a search for vengeance and it's easy for us, you know, in 2022 to look back and cast blame and say, who is wrong and do all these things. But in the end, what you have is two different civilizations, doing really brutal, horrific things to one another and this movie straights like to what end like at what point is enough enough is ook scars, dead and scalped.

57:22 Okay, now we're done, but do we really think it's done? Do we really think that Ethan isn't going to find some other Grudge to hold against someone else? Like this might be a weird comparison. But like, when I think about a person like Michael Jordan, he is, you know, revered for his Competitive Edge that he Find absolutely anything to be hateful towards others about and use that to beat them on the court. Well, what happens when you have a human being like that? Who doesn't live in a civilized era where we compete on a basketball court? What happens when it happens in the late 1800s and the man has a gun and just insatiable desire for vengeance. Well you see what happens here and so I think that's for me kind of the Reputation of the movie that that, I walked away with was like, like, why is violence the answer to Violent? Like where does the cycle end kind of a weird? Yes, where does the cycle end?

58:26 And, you know, for Ford in this movie, it ends when he scalps him, but I left the movie watching, you know, the door closed on, on Ethan, Edwards just wondering who's his next victim. Mmm. Yeah. And I think, honestly, watching through raging Really helped me appreciate this movie more, because we both set it on the Raging Bull episode that like the final 30 minutes of Raging Bull more than makes up for any flaws in the earlier, part of the movie and I really felt like that same thing here. I felt like the deeper that he goes into his vengefulness and his inability to be pulled out of it. It's really just hurting himself, I mean, in addition to other people, but he becomes an almost unrest, curable figure. And even though he returns Debbie, To her home. At the end of the movie, it's very clear that like he has made his bed.

59:18 He believes that he needs to lie in it that he it's almost like he feels like he needs to be punished for what he's done and for what he's believed. And for the secrets that he's been keeping in his heart, this whole time and that because of that, he doesn't have a home, he can't be invited into the home at the end of the movie. And I just, I really loved this guy Edward bus comb and his interpretation of the movie because he sees so much Parallel between Scar and Ethan that when Ethan looks across its car and he wonders like did he rape the love of my life? He's angry at scar beak and he wants to kill scar because he sees scars like an extension of himself like he raped my brother's wife.

1:00:03 Well I wanted to have sex with my brother's wife and so he actually carried out the action that I hate myself for wanting to carry out. And so like when he goes to kill scar when he cuts his scalp off at the The end of the movie. It's like his almost like his way of exercising that demon from himself. And I actually think like, I don't know, man. I really love to hear your take on this because I didn't really think about it in these terms until just earlier this evening. And I'm just kind of working it out here on are. Yeah, I mean I I think that our culture has slowly come to believe that the sexual impulse is the key impulse to the human existence and Personally, I just disagree with that, I don't think that that is the core impetus for why we live as humans.

1:00:53 Think there's some other stuff going on, but it's movies like this that represent the cultures shift towards that because I think you're 100% right. I think what Ford is trying to portray here is like that Wayne had or you know, Ethan has this Forbidden Love and he's not allowed to act out on it but the key is if he Is violent enough. He could have acted out on it and if he was more like scar, he could have gotten what he wanted to and he hates that in himself and he hates that scar. Got to do what he wanted to do, because he was more violent than Ethan was and he wasn't Bound by propriety. And so for the rest of the movie, Ethan is not bound by propriety anymore. He's chosen the, he's chosen the path of violence. All right, man.

1:01:42 Well, we got really deep on this and I think for good reason, this is a really good movie. I don't think everything works. And I, you know, we haven't even really talked about the fact that John, Ford hired, a German guy to play his main bad guy in scar who very obviously does not look Native American when whole very obviously chose a name, you know, and he chose a part of the Navajo tribe to play the rest of the Native Americans in this. Just does not look Native American at all which is like, I feel like we could we could talk about that for a half-hour. And itself is like, well, is it a good thing that he chose a non-native, American, to be the evil Native American?

1:02:24 Yeah. Or is it even more insulting? Like I don't even, I don't know. I feel like you could look at it both ways, like our actors aren't good enough. Yeah. In evil. But then it's like, what would you want to be portrayed that way? So I don't know, but like I'm saying there's a lot of flaws. With this movie, but I think what it's setting out to Do It. Ultimately accomplishes. I am much higher on this movie than I thought. I would be even like 2/3 into watching it. I'm going to come out to an eight and a half on this film. Bob you never let me do my make it a dub. Oh yeah. What would your bb? I think that my double feature mostly based on the plot but also based on the tortured main character Gone Baby Gone.

1:03:09 Oh, nice. Wow. That would be a heavy back to back, geez, man. I literally almost changed it because I was like, that might be the most brutal four to five hours you would ever spend watching movies. What a Greta? How good is gone. Baby gone, dude, it's so good. I've never gonna watch it again. It's that good. I just except when you fire it up right after the Searchers apparently. Oh, man. Yeah, it's so good. So catch it, you were bringing up Raging Bull earlier can I just say that that final scene with Pesci and De Niro might be the saddest seen in any movie we've ever watched weather like in the parking garage together.

1:03:55 Yeah. Oh yeah. It's go. Yeah, just brutal. Well folks, we hope you've enjoyed today's installment of filming this key. Brad. What would you give this movie out of 10? I'm going to give it a 9 out of 10 Bob? Yeah. Yeah, I think it is truly one of the greatest westerns ever made and I'm just a huge fan of this movie. Alright so we are coming out to an average of an eight point seven five out of ten but we'd like to know what you think. So, please reach out to us on social media, you can find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and new Leon Tick-Tock at film whiskey. Or if you want, you can jump onto our Discord.

1:04:36 Discord is a really cool place. It's kind of like a private social media. Our only the people you want to talk to her on there, and we just have a blast, talking about movies and whiskey, and all sorts of other things. So if you want to join the conversation, go to the end of any of our show notes and you can find a link to our Discord there. Next week, we'll be wrapping up our John Ford miniseries with a much lighter movie than the Searchers. It's 1952, s The Quiet, Man. So we'll see you for that one next week, but until then, I'm Bob book, I'm Reggie. She and we'll see you next time.