The Hurt Locker / Michter's US-1 Single Barrel Rye

0:00 Hey everyone. Before we get into today's episode, I just wanted to remind you that we have a ton of extra content over on our patreon. We do movie watch parties special page here on the bonus episodes and all other sorts of wacky stuff that you can access easily. If you head on over to patreon.com slash film whiskey in 2008, director, Kathryn Bigelow, and star Jeremy Renner. Gave the world a haunting look at the day-to-day life of those fighting in the Iraq War in Thousand 23. We try a rye whiskey. That's sure to be an explosion of flavor. It's The Hurt Locker.

0:41 The whiskey is Mick. Ters, US1 ride. This is the film and whiskey podcast. Welcome to the film and whiskey podcast, where each week, we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey. I'm Bob book, I'm Reggie and this week, we are looking at. Kathryn Bigelow's 2009, Best Picture Winner, The Hurt Locker.

1:25 Brad right off the bat. Let's just go ahead and say this. It's our first Kathryn Bigelow movie. We're moving into a new director here. This might be I'm entering into a new gender here. A new gender. This is what I was going to say, I don't know that we've ever had a movie by a female director on the podcast before. Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna sit down or two for all of the cancers out there. I don't pick the movies. That's all the cats for all the, the people with torches Bob's house is that Ian. Yes, I'm glad we're getting this like, we're addressing this up front because it says a lot about what we value in movies and what is celebrated in movies that we have been doing this podcast for over four years, Brad, we've looked at almost 200 movies.

2:12 Now, I think next week is going to be our 200th film on the film and whiskey podcast. So we'll be a one percent representation 1/2. Yeah, but we had next week, we will be at a 1% Presentation. And that I mean like truly. And honestly I don't want this to conversation to only be about the fact that she is a female director. But when we mentioned things like this on the podcast, it truly is because it is, I mean, the numbers are staggering in terms of men to women who are in positions like directors in Hollywood and for Kathryn Bigelow to accomplish what she has as a woman. I mean, you can't not talk about it. It is an incredible accomplishment and I'm excited to talk about her.

2:54 Eames Brad because I think she's a hell of a director. Yeah, well and here's a genuine question. I I'm a little bit glad that it worked out that are 199 and 200. You know, give us the one percent representation because I'm curious How many films do you think? Are actually directed, like, how far do you think our percentage is off from the norm? Oh, that's a great question. I don't know man but it can't because it can't be that far off. That's what I'm saying. So I may be this is coming across as me trying to like defend our podcast and I hope that's not the case but like you know, There's not a lot of movies made by women out there to review. And so, like you said, Bob the, the awesome thing about this is we're not reviewing them because, well, we got to get Catherine in there because she's a woman, right? We're getting them in here because she makes really good movies.

3:49 Yeah, and I think, again, I think this is why when we talk about, when people say representation matters, like the whole history of movies that we have celebrated have been predominantly from one specific kind Kind of person, right? I mean like, you know what, I remember when you and I sat down and did our Apocalypse Now review Brad and I'm a guy that likes Francis Ford Coppola, but we talked about how Coppola of making Apocalypse. Now, is kind of like, I don't know, its peak white guy making a movie, like he got all the resources anybody could ever get. He made a movie where, like, people died, he went out into the jungle and had all this creative control and meanwhile, like, it's not for 30-something years after Apocalypse.

4:29 Now comes out that Kathryn. Low even gets to win an Oscar, right? So you know, it's a really important thing and I'm really glad that in a season where we're having a lot of Firsts, right? We're going to be doing Charlie Chaplin here in a little bit. We're going to be looking Akira Kurosawa in a couple weeks. It's cool that our first, first of the season is to talk about Kathryn Bigelow. Yeah I do also want to mention that this is a complete aside. Bob I was I made the perfect burrito today. It was incredible and as I was as I was eating it as a burrito and thinking about the lack of female representation in Hollywood.

5:17 Yeah. No, I wasn't thinking about that. I was thinking that I needed to share my secrets with the world but I didn't know where to do it. And then I remembered I have a podcast. I have an audience. Is this really where we're going right now? Yes, I need to share my secret. Okay, go ahead. So you know how when you make, you know, when you make taco meat you get the taco seasoning packet and you mix it in with a little water and the ground beef. Sure. Don't do that. No, 100% don't do that. Use a fajita seasoning packet. Hmm it will change your life. Bob okay, great incredible.

5:57 Thank you so much bread. So Brad's life has been changed by this burrito. Completely derailing, our appreciation for Kathryn Bigelow, I'm sure she loves a good burrito as well. We'll find a way to tie those things together. Let's say this Brad. The other thing I wanted to mention is that at the top of the episode, You referred to this as a 2008 film. I referred to it as a 2009 film and it's because this is one of those small independent movies, that, you know, Kathryn Bigelow produced this movie. So she was footing the bill for it. It floated around to a couple of film festivals in 2008 and it didn't get picked up for Us distribution. Until 2009 and so it doesn't qualify for the Oscars until 2009 and you know it winds its award in 2010. So like when you look on IMDb it says it's a 2008 movie. But nobody in America really saw it until mid to late 2009, just one of those movies.

6:50 Can you name the other two movies that did the same thing that were? I think. Yeah the two other Best Picture winners that also did not come. I'm out. Technically the year before the Oscars, there's, I mean, there's a couple that happened way back in like the 30s and 40s because of, when the cutoff was like Casablanca comes out in like I don't know how to Casablanca comes out at a point in 1942 where it doesn't win the Oscar until the year that was 1943 and so wins in 1944. So like I don't know if you're counting that but recently I want to say, like, man was Slumdog Millionaire one of them.

7:33 Hmm, I don't know which points to do. You have down? I have Casablanca nice and crash in 2004 crash. I remember that one. Okay, cool. Yeah, awesome. Thanks for the facts bread, dude. I'm doing research left and right. One fact, and no falsehoods to kick off, kick off this episode 1, facts, and no falsehoods. All right, Brad, it is time for us to start talking about this movie in Earnest. And in order to do that, it's time for America's favorite segments. Brad explains. That's gonna give us the movie plot with only 60 seconds ticking on the clock. So let's go ahead and hear your take with this little segment that we call. Brad explains. Now, Brad has already explained how to make the perfect burrito but it's time for Brad to explain how to make the perfect plot synopsis on The Hurt Locker in order to do this we put what you want me to describe how to write this noxious first, you take your synopsis and then you dump the heat of seasoning on it.

8:33 All right, so we what we do is we put 60 seconds on the clock for Brad to break down the plot of this movie. Usually Brad is breaking down the plot of a movie that he has seen for the very first time. Brad was this your first time watching The Hurt Locker? It was okay. Oh no, ya. Very first time, I cool, I remember when it came out and it won best picture. I was curious because I think I was like gun in for another movie to win, best picture, I don't remember which one it was, but I remember being like a little annoyed that The Hurt Locker. One and so I kind of like out of spite never watched it. So here I am 15 years later watching The Hurt Locker. There you go.

9:13 I'm glad I could be of service to you Brad. You're welcome. All right. So we have put 60 seconds on the clock for you to break down the plot of this movie. It will be a spoiler filled discussion of The Hurt Locker. So turn back. Now, if you haven't seen it and you want to hear more Brad, you have a minute on the clock and go The Hurt. Locker is a film about Anthony Mackie who is not playing the Falcon here in in Iraq. He's just a common Soldier and his bomb said, I believe the staff sergeant of his bomb squad is killed and is replaced by Jeremy Runner who is not playing hockey? They're still soldiers Bob but they're not super soldiers. All right, Jeremy Renner thinks that he's a super soldier and tries to get himself killed about nine different times in the film because he has a A junkie personality for danger and adrenaline.

10:09 And that's it. That is fast. Pretty much it. I mean that's that's the movie he did, he diffuses bombs and does stupid stuff. Maybe he'd be basically leaves his wife for war. He sure does. The end, the end. All right, that's The Hurt Locker, folks, Best Picture Winner of 2009. Dad, did I do it justice? I'm pretty sure like, what the Oscars when they come out, and they present each movie, that's nominated for best picture. They show like 45 second like, Up Clips, I think they should just have you do a brad explains but here's here's the next goal for the film whiskey podcast, we need to become either the hosts or presenters at the Oscars. I can't, I can only imagine being on stage and being like Brad, look, it's Timothy sha'lame and you're like, I have never heard of him for every single person nominated at the Oscars.

11:01 Honestly, it might draw in the regular view, I can't. I Wait for you to read someone's name. Timothy to challenge alamut. Hey you you know who I wouldn't get wrong. My boy didn't even evenness. Okay, let's talk to hurt locker because we're going off the rails here today. The Hurt Locker is a movie that I saw. When it came out in 2009. I don't think I caught it before the Oscars and it had gained a lot of momentum. We've actually briefly talked about this movie on multiple episodes, because the year 2009 produced Three movies, at least three movies that we've done on this podcast, that were best picture contenders, those being Avatar, and up in the air. And we've talked about Avatar in relation to this because Kathryn, Bigelow, and James Cameron were once married. And so they had a very acrimonious divorce and the Kathryn Bigelow vs.

11:58 James Cameron for best director /. Best picture thing was a major story in Hollywood, just a little bit up in the air was a movie that had a ton of momentum. Tom up until like, I don't know three weeks before the ceremony, I remember, really loving up in the air when it came out. It was like my favorite movie of that year by a lot, and I was really pulling hard for it. And then it was like, all right, it's going to be either up in the air or Avatar. And in the intervening weeks, The Hurt Locker just started cleaning up, man. I think it one at sag and that might have been the thing that put it over the edge, but it just seemed like up in the air. Kind of got swallowed up and when The Hurt Locker one, I was like, all right, I gotta check this out now. And I Were really liking it like thinking it was like an eight out of Ten kind of movie hmm but not really feeling like wow this should have won best picture and and Brad it's hard to put myself back in the shoes of 2009 because so much of this movie is about as timeliness and we hadn't really had a good Iraq or Afghanistan war movie to kind of capture what people were thinking about those conflicts at the time.

13:04 And so I think this is a good time capsule movie but What is it? Do you think it's harder or easier for you to evaluate it with almost 15 years of distance? Now, honestly, I think it's interesting because at this point in my life, I have traveled enough and made enough friends that I actually know, a few people who fought in the Iraq at, you know, / Afghanistan war. Mmm. And we're in combat there and so, Just based on, you know, asking them some questions and hearing about their experiences of being in Iraq. I actually think I appreciate this more in 2023 than I would have in 2009.

13:50 I mean partially because I was, you know, I mean I'm sure when this came out or was being shown to Jazz a nine, I was still 18 years old Bob like how can you actually appreciate the tragedy of War? War, the tragedy of addiction to Adrenaline like what's going on in his life. Like the, the speech that Renner gives at the end of the movie, which might be the best part of the movie to his son, about the things that you love in life and how they become less, and less, and less 32 year old Brad who has two children can appreciate that and the sadness of that moment, how like devastatingly broken that man is And how much trauma he's been through and how he really needs to see a really good therapist and not the terrible Colonel, chaplain who sucked.

14:43 Yeah, obviously renter wasn't seeing him, but right 32-year, old, Brad can appreciate that. A lot more who has experienced more life, who's talked to people who have been in war, who's had children of his own than anything. I could have appreciated as an eighteen-year-old. Yeah, I totally get that. I remember, even at the time there had been, I don't know, 45, Iraq, Afghanistan. Movies that came out within a year or two of each other and it seemed like, and I hate to put it so bluntly because we're talking about a real life conflict. It's a real war, but it almost kind of felt like there was a race in Hollywood for these up-and-coming directors to make. They're like big statement war movie that everyone wanted to have their Apocalypse Now, everyone wanted to have their platoon or their Deer Hunter that was going to be like, this is the statement on our times and The Hurt Locker came out and and of just became this is the one we're going to point to.

15:35 Yeah. But I remember even at the time there was a lot of pushback from certain corners of the American public, not on this movie in particular, but just on the idea of kind of making these movies, because again, Hollywood's very liberal place. And so, I think, the Assumption was the people making. These movies are very much against the war and so they're making these movies as propaganda anti war propaganda, right? Right. Yeah, the funny thing is, Watching it now with 15 years of distance, I'm, I'm almost shocked at how. It doesn't take any sort of a stance on the war itself. It reminds me of a lot of these movies that we've talked about, in the show, even like, Saving Private Ryan, doesn't really talk about the ethics of World War Two. It's just about guys doing their jobs. And in this case, it's about guys doing their jobs, but it's about the horrifying realities of what those jobs due to their psyches.

16:31 Yeah, see I think that She actually is kind of making a statement about the war because the the line that they put into Brian guarantees mouth, who plays the Third Wheel Of The Specialist Group. I think his name is Eldridge in the movie like when he's on the helicopter and he's looking at Jeremy Renner and he says, like we had to rush into this because you had to get your adrenaline fix. You had to be in war like you. To do this, I guess for me, I think I kind of took that a little bit as Kathryn Bigelow, like, saying, yeah, like why did we go into this war?

17:13 Just to satisfy some male ego and desire for adrenaline? I don't know. Could you see it that way? I mean, I don't necessarily think she's super approving of like the conditions that these men get put in. But I guess the overall point I'm trying to make is that there's a huge shift in both American culture and in Hollywood in the early to 2000s which was you know post 9/11, it was like whether or not you support this war. We have to support the troops and like everything became. If you're a good American you support the troops. Like I mean even Batman supports the troops ba like we're not going to have another Vietnam where people are coming home from war and getting rocks thrown at them, right. Like if you're gonna throw rocks at somebody, it's not these guys. Right?

17:55 And I think that the attitudes of these movies, even if the movies at their core are like, this is a stupid conflict, we should be there. They're never Suitors are judgmental. Yes, or disrespectful of the troops. And I think it's, yeah, it's just really interesting to me because, you know, you've got a guy like Clint Eastwood, who is I would assume on an opposite end of the political Spectrum, from the person making this movie, making American Sniper, and it's kind of American Sniper. And this movie are very similar because they're both kind of just giving the same underlying message, which is war is Hell. These guys to go through a lot and therefore, you know, I think American Sniper is a little bit more obvious about saying you should support them as a result. Whereas, this one's more just like, look at what they go through. But it's just, it's interesting to me that Hollywood stays very much in the camp of like, listen. We're not going to make any sort of value like judgment calls on this.

18:48 We're just going to portray it and let people take their own assumptions to it. Yeah. And I think that that's when and this doesn't just apply to war but in general I think Hollywood is at its best when it just spends its time examining what makes And stick and whether that is in a war situation or a science fantasy situation or a, you know, a period piece set in and 1700s Britain, like movies are at their best when they're exploring. Why humans do the things that they do and what draws them into areas of being a good human being or being a bad human being and and how we decide, what those good, how we Define, good and bad and I think that's, that's what this movie does.

19:35 Well, is it, it allows each character to explain why they are the way they are. Usually without words, and I think if anything war movies can do that best where your actions speak louder than any sort of words and it's because, you know, I'll go back to the the baseball analogy that Patrick Williams uses, everybody knows the geography of a war movie. Like, everybody knows what's at stake. You like, you either put up or shut up and, and when I say shut up, I mean, you're dead and like that level of tension, gives war movies. I don't know.

20:17 A little extra oomph when you are examining the human psyche and why we do the things we do under such great stress. Yeah, I think if I can kind of Segway, I don't really want to segue because I think it's related to this but I don't know that I can talk about the performances. As without, talking about Kathryn Bigelow's Direction here. And I'll be interested to see how this carries over into movie like Point Break because this is just a very different type of movie. And it's made, you know, 17 years after Point Break. But I think what's really interesting watching the way this movie is shot, so it's written by a guy named Mark boal, who becomes a collaborator with Kathryn Bigelow. They also, you know, team back up for zero-dark thirty, which will watch next week and, you know, I don't know if it's more, her Mark bowl or Kathryn. Low.

21:03 But one thing I really love about the way she directs this movie is it reminds me kind of how Ridley Scott did Black Hawk Down, which is like, very, just kind of very matter of fact, there's not a lot of talking in this movie and it's not overly, it's not sentimentalized, there's not a like a lot of slow mo, like when people get killed in very tragic situation, sometimes it's just kind of like boom that person's dead were moving on. Because, like, we can't stop to think about Out this and we can't stop to process this. And the the kind of churning of War won't let us stop to process this. And I think in that regard, it feels to me much more like real life than some even a movie like Saving Private Ryan. There's a lot of sitting around and, you know, making explicit what you feel inside in Saving Private Ryan. And in this movie it I mean I think she's a female director but she understands better than a lot of male directors. How guys communicate Is we don't communicate. There's a lot of, like, guys kind of glancing at each other instead of like a dressing like, hey here, you're putting us all in danger, they just kind of look at each other and don't say anything.

22:14 There's a lot of repression, you know? And then only when guys get a loan do they like let their emotions out? I think it's a really it much more. Replicates, the experience that I have with communicating with other men, especially men who have been in high-stress situations like this, then a lot of other much, More Taki, war movies, go to the talkies, huh, man? No, I think I'm with you. Bob, for me, the the moments where you dive into their relationships, feel like the weakest parts of this movie, like anytime, you know, Mackey and Renner. And Garrity are like in the barracks together, drinking and you know, doing their thing, I can just immediately lose interest in the film. Mmm.

23:03 And and for me, I think it's it's a result of Renner not being the best actor. I think that actually Anthony Mackie is the better actor here. I really enjoy him in this movie and I enjoy him in a lot of his movies, but when you're looking at the way guys, communicate, I think it works better in the high stress situations because they're you see despite their differences, they fight some, they get along. Um but at the end of the day like they're on the same team and they know that and that's why for me like the the scene that really didn't work for me and it's like right before I paused and you know had to go to bed before I watched the rest of it in the morning, I literally stopped it like right after Mackey and Garrity think about killing renner's character.

23:56 And I just remember being like, okay, the like this movie is just way over the top and ridiculous. So interesting and and that part just frustrated the heck out of me because it at the end of the day, regardless of how Rogue Runner is going. It's just very unrealistic to me based on what I know of the military that anybody would ever think about killing a member of their own units. Let alone somebody like they would never think about killing somebody from the US side of the war, let alone, somebody in their own unit. Well, I think okay, let's talk really briefly about this because it's important that this movie reel has received a lot of pushback from veterans, And I specially like active duty people and saying like the way that these three guys just go on these unauthorized missions.

24:50 And, and while they're on unauthorized missions, they're not using comms, they're not like, like the actual tactical strategy, like, none of this would happen. And so, I think you a have to take it with a grain of salt because it's a movie, but be, it does introduce like actual contradictions into things because I can't sit here and say this feels realistic. And also So be everyone who's ever been in. The situation says, this is not realistic at all. You gotta at least admit that, okay? It doesn't seem like they're strictly adhering to what protocols would be, but I still think that at the end of the day, The way this movies filmed and the way they capture, how real people talk to each other, it feels much more like a documentary than it does.

25:34 Like, a really cinematic magnum. Opus kind of War movie. Yeah. And and that's the that's the struggle for me though. Is that as big a little moves through this movie for me? It just got boring after a little. Oh wow. Like it just felt like the first First 60 to 70% of the movie were just all right. What crazy situation is rather going to get himself into this time. Like, oh boy, oh boy, he's doing something crazy again, interested. And I just the last third of the movie, I think worked a lot better for me, but the the first half of it. It just felt so repetitive and it was rendered doing something crazy and Mackay being annoyed about it and Garrity, not know. What to do about it and being a little unsure of himself and and they just repeated that like three or four times before we actually got to the meat of the film a. So I'll say this, I had a very opposite reaction to you I was really surprised at how well this thing moved I watched it in one go, just a couple hours before we got on here and it was, I mean like I kept checking to see like what the timing was because we had somewhere to be and I was really running up against it at the last minute, but I kept checking in then, I was like, oh, there's only 45 minutes left. Like this, this has gone way faster than I thought. And I think that those three four. So like there's basically the first three scenes of the movie are like three bomb defusing

27:04 scenes. One with Guy Pearce at the very beginning in a cameo role and he gets snuffed out pretty quickly and then Jeremy renner's first, two times out with his new, you know, crew. And I thought all three of them were really expertly done. And I think that's kind of my big takeaway from this movie. Brad watching it again, is that I still don't think it's like, I'm still surprised this movie wins best picture. I think it's a really well-made war movie and get sad. A lot of things that a lot of Hollywood war movies. Don't get at. You have to respect the craft. I think the like the craft of this movie. I have such a deeper appreciation for with 15, more years of movie watching under my belt and we talk about things like the geography of a seen.

27:50 This was I was really really impressed with Bigelow's ability. To put you in a nameless, faceless kind of community or like an abandoned Street, or an alley, or a building and immediately you understand exactly what they're moving towards. What the geography of the situation is when they are like, pinned down. And there's people on all sides of them. You always understand like whose Vantage Point you're looking from or where someone is in relation to somebody else, I think like, it's a really well directed movie. And I will say the shot that really stuck out to me was the one that they use for the movie poster. Dude, when the camera is like, like the hardest Dutch angle above Renner and he's pulling up on the wires. There's like six bombs around him. Yep.

28:39 That's just visually effective if it's such a good ocean moment. Like it's, yes, your gut drops. Yeah, you're just going oh man, this is like way worse and she kind of Is to repeat that with the the car when he opens up the trunk and drops the Crowbar, and it's just like that whelp, there's 37 bombs in this car. Like, what are we gonna do? Yeah, so I think it's things like that that she does well even the way that she uses Renner in the moments of defusing the bombs like especially the car bomb scene when he is trying to find the trigger and his partners in crime or like telling him like dude, let's get out of here.

29:22 Here, this isn't worth it will just blow it and go home and he's like, single-mindedly determined to find the switch like the way. He's searching through the car feels so claustrophobic and and nerve-wracking. And and so I think there are elements of this. Yeah with the editing and the cinematography that that are really incredible. This is Peak shaky-cam 2009. Like this is right after Cloverfield comes out and the way this movie is shot is I think I've mentioned TV show before it reminds me a lot of the show 24 where there's like, they're shaky camera there doesn't even necessarily need to be shaky cam a lot of times, but I think as the movie progresses and you get used to that, it does it really helps to kind of solidify this claustrophobic feeling that you're talking about. I think just before we move on to anything else I want to say again, I think this is one of the better edited movies. We've washed in a long, long time. And they, you know, I read a lot about the editing of this Has movie.

30:22 Apparently they had like 200 hours of footage that had to get cut down, and the editor said, it was like incoherent because they were shooting from all angles, and so, it was breaking the 180 degree rule all the time. And so they had to kind of cobbled together something that looked coherent and not only do I think they did that really well. But like, even in moments, like you're talking about, we're renters inside the car looking for this initiating system to blow the thing up, and they keep cutting back outside, where Mackey and Garrity are pinned down and they're getting Really, really paranoid out there. There's this one cut I specifically remember where the tension is getting ratcheted up and it's real quiet as they're like, looking around to see what's happening and the sound editing kicks in, before the cut and it's, it's renter plunging a knife into the back seat and ripping the fabric.

31:11 So he can try to find this wire and it sounds like a gunshot. And so like, it was like a jump-scare almost and it really made me realize this movie, the way they do the tension in this movie and the way they kind of do have Or sometimes the atmosphere they're trying to create is a horror movie and I think it's really effective. Well and I love that you use the horror movie reference because the key thing of a horror movie like especially like let's talk about alien. The key thing of alien is that these creatures that are trying to kill, you are wholly foreign and unable to communicate with the crew of the the The storm. Oh, is that right Nostromo?

31:54 Yeah, Nostromo. Thank you. And that is the sense you get from the American troops. When they are walking around, they can't communicate with the locals and, and there's this fear that every single local is out to get you. And if that's not more horror film esk, I don't know what else you could hope for. And I think that that's like, the key thing that makes this movie work is the I think it captures the tension, you feel as a soldier to be in a foreign place where you don't know who's friendly and who's an enemy right? Like in WWII, you are fighting out in the fields out in the, the forests and Iraq, you're in a desert.

32:40 Like you can't just go fight out in the dunes like, you can, but in the end at the end of the day, most of the fighting goes on in the cities where the citizens live and as a soldier, you're Is constantly on edge, you not sure why people are videotaping you what they're talking about when you hear them speaking. And so I think that they do that incredibly well, to give that sense of dread, you would feel as a soldier. All right, Brad, I think it's time for us to hit pause, and it's unfortunate because we haven't really talked about these performances. But let's go ahead and drink this whiskey. We'll come back and we'll talk about, you know, all the performances, and all the random cameos that this movie has as well. So what do you say we get to this mixers, dude, I am I'm so pumped, like, Victor's rise.

33:25 Seems to pop up on, everybody's like, you have to try this ride list. So I've really Jazz for today, Bob. All right, let's get to it. Alright, so today we are checking out, Mick ters, US1, Kentucky straight rye, whiskey. This is a single-barrel whiskey from the mixers label as Brad says makers is a really interesting brand in the world of whiskey because they're higher end stuff. In particular. They're toasted Barrel finish stuff can get really really expensive Victor's 10 really expensive you know I think they have a 20 year that I just saw my friend our friend Zack Johnston post about on Instagram like that.

34:08 And of dollars. And so like, even even the regular stuff, which is what we're drinking today. It's had a little bit of a trickle-down effect. Like it's like a mini Buffalo Trace where people know that the really pricey stuff is good and so they're snatching up even like their Baseline offerings. Yeah. And I'll give you a sneak preview. They should be. All right, I'm popping open my bottle right now. Brad, I have not tried this prior to this episode, so I'm going to be drinking it live a little bit about Mick ters. So this is a Resurrected brand that came back in the 1990s. It was a very, very well-established brand. In fact, it honors, the first American Distillery ever. They say that it has roots going all the way back to 1753. That sounds nice and fancy but the current iteration is only been around since the 1990s, we've interviewed their Master distiller Dan McKee.

34:57 Super great guy. Dude. What an incredible? Like super genuine down-to-earth dude. They did not start distilling their own stuff until 2019. So this is a sourced product that we have. The bottle right now, it's not age stated so we know that this rise at least four years old, they don't disclose where they Source their ride from. They also don't disclose the mash Bill. We know that it's not 100% Rye but I can't tell you anything beyond that. The only other thing I really know about it is that it's forty-two, point four percent ABV or 84.8 proof this is a pretty low prove rye bread. We don't usually get back down into the 80s very often. No we don't and you know a few weeks back we got into the top floor for bench. Mark, and I think both of us were like, man, this is like an 80-something proof.

35:42 Whiskey that actually has some flavor and I'm enjoying it. And once again, today there's a lot of flavor here. And I'm like, shoot. If you can get solid flavor in the 80 to 90 Proof range. That's a killer product, man. All right. Why don't you kick us off? Brad? I'm just sticking my nose in my glass over here but I'm sure you've got notes already. Yeah, so the for me, it started off with like a a small Pop of orange zest, moved into some Butterscotch, the rice spice kind of hit me. Midway through along with some really freshly ground, black pepper. And then at the end, I almost got like a fresh loaf of sourdough bread. And I think that this nose is incredible. Bob for me, Bob, it's a 9 out of 10. Wow.

36:33 Okay, so you are definitely the Rye guy of the two of us, but I still like a good Rye every now and then. And this one was really interesting on the nose. The first thing that jumped out of the glass for me, as a note. I've never ever gotten on a rye, and it was really, really ripe cantaloupe. Like when you cut into a cantaloupe, that's like maybe a little too squishy. And you got to eat, it really fast. Just it's like that and I really liked it, but behind that it had a creaminess to it, that I often don't get on Rise either. So it was like cantaloupe and vanilla and I kept looking at the bottle. Like did I, is this a ride that I pick up the right bottle and then the black pepper hit and even more than actual like, Rye grain. This presents as just like you said, freshly ground black pepper. It's really nice.

37:18 I can tell for sure, this is not a 100%, right? Because I don't get a lot of Rye Grain on this, but it's interesting. And I'm Intrigued about what I'm going to taste. I'm going to give it a seven and a half on the nose, dude. We I moved into the palette at this is this is like heaven for me Bob so we use the flavor caramel a lot, right? Hmm. But for me, that almost feels like a broad generic like just food to caramel, right. Yeah, for me on this note this isn't just caramel it's like the little tiny Square. We're wrapped in like the the paper caramel that you get at like your grandma's house, you know, I'm talking about that is what I got on the palette here, along with some fresh mint, some rye bread and then like it almost turned into like a Nutty candied almonds, like a sweet, almond feel.

38:15 Once again, I think this is absolutely delectable and the fact that there is so much flavor punched into this palette without it. Being high proof. Like, I didn't quite feel like I was drinking water here because there's a little bit of viscosity. That's really nice. But it's, when you are at the lower proof points, it's just easier to drink bottom, and I really liked it a lot and I gave it a 9 and a half out of ten. Wow, okay, I'm definitely not there, I don't dislike this. I just don't, I'm not kidding a lot on this and I'm, you know, as you were giving your tasting notes. I kept taking extra steps trying to find it but like, It's really thin on the front of the palate. Like if we're talking about mouth feel, it is really watery for me on the front, but then when you get to the back of the palate, it doesn't necessarily get any thicker or like more viscous, but all that flavor comes out. And it has a burst of heat not like ethanol burned, but like actual warmth that comes out, it really does kind of spread across your palate like a much higher proof whiskey would and I'll give it that The flavors I'm picking up Brad. Don't really remind me of a rye though, like it has some graininess to it, but I'm almost getting like barley and I don't know if this is a for grain, like, if it has wheat in it, but it almost reminds me of like, there's a wheat whiskey. We tried from Starlight, I think, like, a season or two ago, it almost reminds me of like a barrel proof wheat whiskey.

39:42 It has some really good grainy notes to it and a lot of Oak. I just don't like I don't even know if I would pick up that. This was a Rye whiskey if you just set it in front of me blind. And so I'm wondering like how much corn does this happen at how much barley does this happen? It, it's an interesting whiskey, but like, it doesn't have a lot of Rye character for me, so I'm going to give it a 7 out of 10 on the taste Bob, you're just absolutely crazy. Like, dude, we've had some rise that are like, oh, this is unmistakably made of Rye, you know what I mean? And this is one of the dishes, like, this is mistake about me. Of right. No, like no. I just I can tell that it's not a holy ride experience. Sure, I'm with you.

40:30 It's probably not a 100%. Well we know it's not 100% Rye but I'll tell you there is enough mint and Rye flavor on the palate to to very clearly delineate this as a ride. I guess what I'm trying to say is I'll put it more succinctly. You're wrong, that's it. Yeah we got it we got it. Okay cool. Cool. On the finish. Here it tails off a little bit. I think this is where the the lack of proof points comes back to bite it a little bit for me. I still enjoy it a lot. There's some really rich mint. The oak comes out, pretty strong strong at the end. The only flavor that really lingers for me for a while, is the, the little bit of rice spices there. Some of the black pepper.

41:16 I'll give it an 8 out of 10 on the finish. It comes down a little ways from the, the nose in the It, but still a really strong strong whiskey. Yeah, it's funny. I agree with everything you said, like, in terms of the flavors that are left behind. I don't agree that it's a step down, though. I think this is actually where the most flavor of the whole experience lives is what's left on your palate, afterwards. Lots of black pepper. Lots of Oak. It's really nice again. I don't know that. I would call it a rye if you just gave it to me blind. But I mean, that's apparently my problem, and I really like the finish on this. I'm going to once again, give it a seven and a half out of ten. When it comes to balance, I think I'm actually going to give this a 10 out of 10, Bob.

41:57 Wow. Like that. Like it's just complex' enough to highlight just everything that's going on here. I think that they take all of the flavors, they marry them together and just give you an incredible experience at 84. 85 percent proof like I am really Blown Away with what they're doing at Victor's with this stuff. All right, so on balance. I'm going to give it. I'll give it a seven again. Like I think it's a pretty well-balanced whiskey. I just don't know if this is like my cup of tea. You know what I'm saying? I like makers bourbon a lot. This ride so far is kind of like it's a good. I think it's a good introductory Rye.

42:38 Like if you're not used to drinking, right? I think this is like the flavor profile. Where it's close enough to Bourbon is clicked even close enough to some scotches for me that you could get away with like, Hey, try this. And it won't be like, Whiplash on your If you've been drinking something else before it so I like it. Not my favorite thing in the world, I'll give it a 7 out of 10. All right, so in the state of Ohio, you can buy Mick ders. U.s. one Kentucky, rye whiskey for $44.99. I think that's a nine and a half value Bob. I'm like okay, go ahead, keep going, no, no, you're good, everybody knows. I love to see you do. I'm not crazy about it. However, it's a single barrel and that's the thing. Like, you can never really judge a brand based solely on one barrel, so I will give that caveat Brad is this like a noticeably higher quality product than Benchmark? Single Barrel was?

43:40 Yes. Okay. Is it like way far in a way? Even, if even factoring in, like, you like ride better than you like bourbon? Like you think this is just a higher quality product? Yes, we'll get a cent because the in fact that like that, you know, the Benchmark Single Barrel was $25, and like, it felt like a very low quality single bear. This Feels like a very high quality single barrel and it only costs $45 like for me that seems like a no-brainer. Well, and I think my hesitation is it's been watered down to 84 proof and so it's like an even lower proof. I think than the Benchmark Single Barrel was it's pretty rare to see a single barrel. That is like this diluted.

44:23 So I'm really struggling to find Value in this Brad. I know you really like it. I think I'm just going to give it a six and a half on value. Yeah, I'm at a 46 out of 50 bottle of 46. Just just going to put this out here. This is above the 45 out of 50, Mark, for me. I mean, yeah, that's a 92 out of 100. This is this is maybe your second or third highest rated whiskey in the history of the film and whiskey podcast. Yeah, it's incredible. Bob, get on the, get on the train. I will the trim that I'm on is numbered 35.5. So I I am I'll full ten and a half points below you.

45:04 We're coming out to an average of an eighty one point while I guess and that's not an average. We're coming out to a sum total of an 81 and a half out of 100 for a forty point seven five out of 50 that is entirely because of Brad's really, really high score. And dude, like legitimately I don't say this to be condescending. I know it's probably going to sound condescending. I really am like super happy for you when you find Whiskey's like this, that are like this far up your alley, but Just like it doesn't check the box, you're gonna say it's far up here. It just doesn't check the boxes for me and you know, which boxes I like in my Whiskey's and they don't appeal to you as much. So it's like, this is a brad G whiskey through and through, and I'm really happy, we got to try it.

45:49 I would give that like a seven out of ten condescending. I'm but I'm being serious. Like, I owe. And as for you and I am happy that you got to try something you love, even if I didn't. Care for it as much as you did. I appreciate that. Bob, I wish that you could appreciate goodness the way I do that. That's that is me being condescending. Let's get back into talking about The Hurt Locker. What do you say? Let's do it, man. Boom, that was mixers. U.s. Rye, Kentucky, One Whiskey man, something something, something rye, whiskey that detonated. Our taste buds.

46:33 Oh, our friendship, at the very least diffused, our friendship Bob, you know, what time it is? Is it to facts in a falsehood time? It is time for Canada's favorite segments to fax in a falsehood I tried to stop you ball to all right, and what is wrong to fax in a faucet? That's right. Two facts. And a falsehood, the part of the podcast where Brad makes stuff up. Now, you may be thinking, isn't that what Brad does at every part of the podcast and ID percent of the time? And that's true. However, this is the designated place for him to do that.

47:13 This is where he presents, three items to me as fact about the making of this movie, one of which is a complete fabrication. Action and it's my job to suss out the LIE. Brad hit me with your two facts. In a falsehood fact, number one, the hurt lockers box office clocked in at number. 146 overall for the year with a pull of twelve million, six hundred seventy one thousand one hundred five dollars of which Bob supported it for what like nine dollars worth back. Then I did not, I didn't see it in the theater. Oh, that's right. You didn't even see it, man. Do you even care about Cinema? Like, I don't, it came just in front of 12 rounds. The Day, the Earth Stood Still, and Sunshine Cleaning. Mmm fact, number to Army staff.

47:59 Sergeant John Everett was brought on to help ensure authenticity to the actual experience of the war. But said that his suggestions were so often ignored that he could not continue on with the project and quit halfway through. Wow. Fact, number three, the three songs in the Owned by Ministry. Fear is a big business Palestina and Khyber Pass are from their tenth album, the politically driven, Rio Grande blood, which criticizes the war in Iraq and former President George W bush. It is also an anachronism as the movie is set in 2004, but the album was released in 2006. Hmm. I think number one is a fact, but let me just double-check when you're talking about like domestic gross of the Year, we're talking 2009, right? Because it does, it didn't come out. Okay, yeah, I remember reading somewhere that like this was one of only a handful of Best Picture nominees. For Best Picture winners, that hadn't even like made their money back when they won best picture. I think a got a slight bump after the fact, but that would have been in 2010.

49:05 So, that sounds about right, Number two sounds plausible and we will talk a lot about this next week with Zero. Dark Thirty that movie came under a lot of fire about what may or may not have been fabricated after the fact. So, you know, who's to say if the seeds of that weren't so nice here fact, number 3, I have absolutely no idea. You know, I know you might be like, oh there it was actually their ninth album. Mwah. So I don't know. I'll go ahead and say three is the falsehood but I don't really know. Number three is a true fact about the movie. All right cool. Yeah that's enough to is the fall, right? Cool cool.

49:48 Yeah. Well I mean you are kind of priests aging. What we're going to talk about next week with Zero Dark Thirty, even though what I remember about Zero Dark Thirty is that I liked it a lot better than this movie. So I'm interested to see if like you know it wasn't a good Ally what it was the thing that Luther said if you're going to send soon boldly you know yes like you make it make a good movie if you're going to make Dude, way to get a good Martin Luther quotient. No, he's not. I was not expecting that as we talked about the Iraq War. I do my best friend. Oh man. So we we honestly haven't really talked about the performances at, um, Bob. I kind of mentioned. My thoughts, where are you at on the performances of our of our two, main actors, you know, Reiner and Anthony Mackie. Well, let's start with Anthony Mackie because I have a feeling I disagree with you about Jeremy Renner I think Anthony Mackie to your point is the standout performance of this movie. And I think it's a little bit.

50:46 You know, if I could put a caveat on that, it's a little bit easier because he is a person who is experiencing normal, human emotion, and normal reactions to things. And so he's much easier to empathize with than Renner. However, even with that said, Mackey's final scene in the Humvee with Renner, where he just finally has this realization of like, You basically, as an audience member realized, there are two types of people in this world and one reacts like that, and one reacts like that. And and that's literally the point of that scene and Mackay hits his breaking point, where he's like, I hate this, I can't do this anymore, not only that, like, I have to have a child. Like, I'm going home. I'm going to have a son now and watching him kind of break down. And that moment was incredible.

51:31 Really emotionally, affected me. And the, and then the scene takes a turn into like trying to psychologize, you know? Renders character, but for me the most effective part of that scene was Anthony Mackie. He's a fantastic actor. I hate the people only know him from the MCU because he's kind of underutilized there. And I'm glad to see the he's like getting back into projects now that are not MCU related, but he's the best performance in the movie. I wish he had, you know, won an Oscar for this bread. Yeah, 100%. I think, what I love most about your point of these are the two types of people in the world is that Bigelow doesn't make A value judgment on that.

52:11 Like both of them are effective at their jobs. Like, like, Mackey is a good soldier. He, he does his job. Well, even as he's questioning the things that they're doing and the things that renters specifically are is doing. And yet, at the end of the movie, he goes home and ostensibly has a kid because that's that's his goal and Renard has to return to the battlefield. And neither of them are wrong. Like, both of them are presented as capable at their jobs unique interesting individuals, who who are engaging in this life. The best that they can, huh? Wow, I don't have that read on it at all. Like I think that is one thing to present someone without judgement with the understanding with the audience that like this person is fundamentally broken and that's renders carry like I don't think she's being like.

53:04 Yeah, this is a normal positive reaction that In have, I think he's very much like know. This dude is like, really, really messed up and this is the only way he knows how to engage with his surroundings. Well, that's why, that's why I think that the opening quote actually does the movie A disservice. The whole idea of war is a drug, the, the classical understanding of drugs, at least. The one that I was raised with was that like, drugs are a choice? You know, like the the stupid just say no? Yep. Like drugs. Eggs are a choice and that it's just what we, you know, people do because they're bad and they make bad decisions and I think that you kind of get that a little bit here with Jeremy Runner whereas if you if you view drugs, through the actual lens of they are used to numb the trauma that we experience in life.

53:56 That makes a lot more sense for runners character that that he has, undergone something in his childhood that he is running as fast away from as he can. And war is the drug of choice to disassociate from his experience in life. All right, so tell me a little bit more about what you think of Renner here. Because not only did you say that this performance wasn't great for you, but you said, I don't think Jeremy Renner is a very good actor, and I think that seems kind of harsh to me, so make your case. Well, speaking, as one of America's greatest actors of all time, I would have to say that Renner is Just wooden.

54:40 He just constantly comes across as not being fluid in his movements. I don't think that he does. See ya, I can already see here what you're about to say, Bob I just he comes across as so soulless hmm and I and it works in this movie because that's kind of the point. Like he's only supposed to be alive when he's, you know, in incredible danger. But I guess maybe I'm letting other performances of Renner bleed into this where I just, I don't enjoy Runner as an actor and I think in so many of his movies, he kind of comes across as D and inauthentic hmm and that like for me, that's a major sin.

55:25 Wow. Yeah I just don't get that. I mean I think that he really Leverage is in some in some movies he comes across as like the the slimy cocky guy and I think in this one he's kind of cocky but it's more like he's a he's a desperate junkie. And I think you get that here he doesn't have interpersonal communication skills. He can he I mean, he only communicates with the guys when he's drunk and I think he plays that really well. Well, and there was a couple moments. He doesn't like in the face, he doesn't really look like this actor, but there were a couple moments where some facial expressions that he was making reminded me. A lot of the way that Sean Penn played his character in Mystic River and it just like when that went on that clicked for me it was something about the way he was holding his face in one moment and I was like, oh, it's Sean Penn and then from the rest of the movie on, I was like this is a fantastic, Sean Penn performance like and I think that's what I really loved about. Like it was really good and I think I'm with you. Like I don't know that Renner is like one of our best overall actors but I absolutely think he deserved his Oscar nomination. I think this is a really good performance. Playing a man who has repressed every emotion and only knows how to chase.

56:34 The high of being constantly at risk of getting blown up. Yeah, I think the the most interesting point for him as a character is The one time he kind of comes to life outside of military situations is with this young Iraqi boy who sells him a, you know, crap DVD and play soccer with him a little bit. And I think it's in those moments that you you start to tease out a little bit of his character and you get to see him for who he might really be but there's not enough of it. And I think that's that's why for me his character just becomes very repetitive and And frankly, just boring as a character, he doesn't go anywhere.

57:17 He doesn't move, he doesn't change. He's just who he is. It's not a, maybe it's the writing that I like less than renders performance. All right, let me just push back a little bit. Like does Travis Bickle. Go anywhere in Taxi Driver like he's crazy from the get-go. He gets more crazy as the movie goes on until there's like this, you know, orgy of violence at the end of the movie. Like, yeah, but the movie is not about Travis Bickle. The movie is about society and, and how it treats people like Travis Bickle. Well, isn't that what this movie is about? Isn't this movie about what happens when you put a person in this situation over and over and over again? No, the movie is about him. And his journey to anesthetize, the pain that he's in and he just keeps doing the same thing over and over again and that's boring.

58:06 You are like, I love that you speak. Only in absolutes. Brad only a Sith would do that. Call me as call me a sip baby. I just like sometimes you're like, yeah, this movie didn't work for me but I can see blah blah and this time around are just like it's boring, it's stupid, Jeremy Renner, bad actor, like many players, Rye incredible. Like, in a way that I don't know that this movie deserves anyone ever being that harsh towards it, like a bell at its worst. This movie is fine at its best, it's really good. So what you're saying is the movie barely merits your attention, which is probably the worst thing you could say about it. You can say about a movie. Yeah. Alright, so in, in the spirit of that, I'm really interested to see what you're going to pair this up with Brad because it's time for our last segment of the day which we call let's make it a double who knew The end of the episode.

58:59 So thanks for listening to the film and whiskey show. Let's pair another film with this one. Even if it's struggle, it's a final segment of the day. Now let's make it a double. Let's make it. A double is the part of the podcast, where we pair, this movie up with another film to make the perfect double feature Brad. You want to go first? Yeah, I just want to pair it with a movie that's actually good. Sicario. Oh sicario I didn't think about that one dude. Sicario just It lives in my brain, rent free. I want to watch it again. I think it's probably one of the best films about Modern Warfare that I've ever seen and I love it and it's incredible interesting because it is so you're right. It is about Warfare but it's like a bureaucratic War more than huh and yet.

59:47 Yeah I'm I'm really interested in that pairing because aesthetically these movies are nothing alike. Like that movie has these kind of very long take Of Roger deakins camera kind of floating in and out of situations. And this movie is, you know, cut cut, cut, cut, cut, shake, shake shake shake, shake over and over and over. Yeah, like I said, I want I want. Good cinematography. Oh my gosh, dude. Okay. All right, I'm gonna this is hard because I think there's like, at least three or four movies. I compare this with. I think I talked about Black Hawk Down already. What movie do I compare it with Jarhead. I think that would be a really good one. What's the one? It's like a marionette movie.

1:00:28 America police force something. You should you should pair it with that, Bob Brad. I think the movie that I'm going to pair this with is the deer hunter because you know, we haven't done the deer hunter yet. I'm excited to do that. Som de dinero De Niro. It's one of the better movies about the way that you get that warm. Messes up your psyche and that people get sucked into the the drug of war. And that's obviously the theme of this movie, man. I just feel like there's another movie out there that I had pegged. As this is going to be my, let's make it a double and I can't think of it, but I think if I have to get up to a stopping Place Tropic Thunder, that's it.

1:01:09 If there has to be a second place winner, the deer hunter is a pretty darn good one. Yeah, I'm still waiting on the better one. Bobby blessing. I only want I only want the best from you and unfortunately I know I'm not going to That from you and final scores here. So here's the thing, Bob at this point in the episode, I'm just trying to give you crap to annoy you. Sure. I think. I think that this is a pretty solid film. I don't think in almost any other year. It would win best picture. But when I looked at the lineup for Best Picture nominees in 2010, right? Right, I like other than up in the air, I don't know if there's a single movie on there that I Was like, oh, that's an obvious Best Picture Winner, and even up in the air.

1:01:57 I absolutely love that movie. It doesn't quite have a Best Picture Winner, feel to it, and it's a little bit too. Goofy has a little bit too much Anna Kendrick to like be like, hey, this should win best picture. So while I think that it rightfully gave Hurt Locker run for its money. I think it kind of makes sense that this one like it like it's a really good movie at this point. I'm just vamping. I am going to give this A seven and a half out of ten. Okay. I like it. I would come back to it at some point.

1:02:38 I think I would just be curious to come back to it in a few years and see if I can allow the cinematography to draw me in a little more. Yeah, I'm going to give it an eight and a half out of ten and it's funny because I really haven't talked about the things that didn't work for me and it's pretty much the opposite of of your thing. Like I thought that the repetitiveness of defusing the bombs was really effective. Because a they were really extended sequences and she is so good and her editors are so good at drawing tension out of those situations that it wasn't diminishing returns to me the way it was to you, and it really made the movie Click. It's when he goes off on his little side quest and just like runs through the streets of Baghdad in a hoodie. Yeah.

1:03:18 And I'm like, wait, what are we doing here? Like and then he's doing his best Tom Cruise invitation. Well, I yeah, man, he goes on to be in Mission Impossible. A couple years later. So, you know, and then how does he get back to the base? They just show him. Running back to the base and there's tons of eyes on him and then all of a sudden, he's like, at the gate like, uh, glad I made it back. Wait, wait a minute. How did this? That's when the movie started to fall apart a little bit? To me, the, the line where the guard is. Like, I'll let you go. If you tell me where it is, where's the whorehouse? I think it's really well done. And I think it's one of those movies Brad that I'm glad word waiting until almost episode 202. Do because I really do want to emphasize how good of a movie it is from a Raft standpoint it's a really well-crafted well-shot. Well-choreographed movie.

1:04:05 I just again I don't know if it's like a transcendentally good movie. All those movies from 2009 feel very much like 2009. It's cool to have it as a time capsule but I don't know if it's anything more than that. So it's an eight and a half for me. So, let's bring this out to an 8 out of 10. I'm excited to see how this Compares To Zero Dark Thirty, which I really thought was the better movie, but it also was like a much like a much more ambitious movie. So I mean, we're going to check it out next week. Let us know what you think of The Hurt Locker. Did you see it? When it was in theaters where you one of the 12 people that saw it, or have you caught it in the intervening years? Where does it rank for you among, you know, modern war movies?

1:04:49 Let us know on our social medias. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram or Tick-Tock at film whiskey or jump onto the Discord. We are on there every single day, talking about movies, whiskey and absolutely anything else that is going on. In our world today you can find a link to our Discord at the end of every single one of our show notes. Next week, we will be back talking about Zero Dark Thirty but until then I'm Bob book, I'm Brad G and we'll see you next time.