The Grapes of Wrath / Rabbit Hole Dareringer

0:00 In 1940 director, John Ford and star Henry Fonda gave the world of dramatic. Depiction of the disastrous downturn of the 1930s West in 2022. We try a bourbon with wrathful grapes of its own. The film is Grapes of Wrath. The whiskey is rabbit hole PX finish and we'll review them both. This is the film and whiskey podcast.

0:43 Welcome to the film and whiskey podcast, where each week, we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey. I'm Bob book, I'm Reggie. And this week, we are starting a mini series of films by the director, John Ford, with his 1940, oscar-winner the grapes. Of Wrath Brad. We usually we watch movies for this podcast like, you know, at most a day or two before we record the episode. Oh yeah. But maybe three or four days. Yeah. And maybe 30 minutes before like there have been times where I've finished a movie and like, ran to my computer to get on and talk or yeah. That is not the case. Today, this might be the longest we've ever gone after watching a movie before recording, and I'm kind of excited about it. Because if I'm being honest, I don't remember like, a damn thing that happens in this movie brand. Do you want to know something that you'll be proud of me for? Oh, yeah.

1:37 Tell me I watched Tick Tick. Boom. The other day. Oh, I like, how you just completely changed the subject once again? Yeah, well, I was just thinking about things I've done in the interim and I could probably give a much better review of that movie. Then groups are at right now. What do you think of it solid with a really great performance from Field hundred percent. That was one of those movies where, like, you could tell that lin-manuel Miranda is not a like a director yet. Like that was a movie that was totally made in the editing room. Yes. And Garfield holds the whole thing together. Yeah, you can tell that he is coming into his own as an actor to the point where he can help a younger director, for sure. Well, okay, let's let's try to find a way to segue from that 2021 film back to 1940 and talk about John. ORD.

2:30 So this season. We're doing miniseries by very famous directors, and John Ford is one of the most highly regarded directors of all time. It's been a while Brad since we have like gone back to Classic Hollywood, which is kind of the bread and butter of this podcast or was for a number of Seasons. So it's really nice to be back in the Golden Age of Hollywood and this movie The Grapes of Wrath is widely considered one of Ford's best films, it was ranked as the 21st best. American film of all time by the American Film Institute when they did their first top 100. And then when they Revisited it, ten years later, it was number 23. So we're coming out to an average of the 22nd best film of all time and I'm excited to talk about it.

3:14 It's a great movie based on one of the quote-unquote, Great American novels. I don't think we've had a movie, like, with this amount of heft behind it, in a long time, on the show. I can say this is actually our second Steinbeck adaptation though. Yes, it is behind. He's getting East of Eden, which is one of my absolute favorite books of all time. I've never read Grapes of Wrath. Oh, I haven't also not red grapes of wrath'. I'm pretty sure that this is the novel in which there's like a whole chapter dedicated to a turtle that's like turned on its back in the middle of the road struggling and you know of course it's a metaphor. Do you get it? Yeah. But no I've never gotten through Grapes of Wrath.

3:56 Yeah, I was Oldest by a friend that the end of the book is much more Bleak than the end of the movie. Yeah. Do you have you heard about the ending of this book? So I read the Wikipedia page on the movie. And it talked about differences from the novel. And my God, I thought this movie was crushingly sad and that that book man, I don't know. Yeah I'll just go ahead and read the cliff notes or check out the Wikipedia page because I'm not going to talk about the ending. It's pretty unique and very sad. It's definitely a downer for sure. Yeah. Well, we're gonna talk a little bit more about the book as it relates to this movie as we get into this episode.

4:38 But Brad, the question, that is looming over every one of our episodes is, have you seen this movie before? I have not. All right. And have you seen any of the movies that were doing in our Ford retrospective here? Yeah, I've seen The Quiet Man. Okay, so next week we're doing the Searchers and we're going to finish out The Quiet Man. So you've seen that one but not the other two. Hmm. All right, that means that it is time for us to jump into Brad explains, which is America's favorite segment. As we get into that, we do want to encourage you. Whether this is your first time listening to the show, or if you're a longtime listener, please check out our patreon page, patreon.com/lenguin ski where you can support the podcast, you can give back a little bias, a coffee, once a month, you can support us at a 3 5 or 7.

5:27 A month tear at every one of those tears you get access to a special discounted server that we are on literally every day, talking to fans of film and whiskey, especially at the five and seven dollar tears. You get bonus perks which are really, really great. We'd love to have you join the community at patreon.com film whiskey Brad? I have vamped a little bit to give you time to formulate your thoughts to try to reach into the recesses of your mind, to remember what this movie is about more like the depths of my soul, Right? We've put 60 seconds on the clock. Can you break down the plot of The Grapes of Wrath? Yeah, Tom Joad played by Henry Fonda the illustrious Henry. Fonda, he is a ex-convict.

6:12 He killed a man in a bar fight. He returns to his family's Farm in Oklahoma, only to find them driven off of it. He reunites with his family to to realize that they are moving out. West, there was a flyer that said that They would pay for it was at 800 Orange Pickers, I believe, and that they're they're getting an old truck that's just full of every single thing that they own and they're taking that out west on the way out west, they run into some people who tell them that what they're going to is a fantasy that it's not actually real. It's an illusion but they had on that anyways. A pastor joins.

6:53 The former Pastor joins them 10-second ripped to see what's out there. And everything is sad and terrible and the government's, the only people you can trust. I think that's it. I love that. That's the lesson of the film that I mean lean on Uncle Sam folks. That's kind of what they betrayed man we have lots to talk about Brad, don't we? Yeah this is this is an interesting film because All of the acting performances are Stellar. Oh, phenomenal. Like we can start there, all of the acting performances are out of this world, just really really good. And for me, that's what really kept this movie together. Because, if I'm being honest, it feels a little rough around the edges.

7:42 Bob, it does, and I don't remember it being that way. I remember seeing this for the first time when I was probably in high school and really loving it. And I think like from a cinema standpoint, like the language of Cinema, the Language of this movie will get into talking about the cinematographer Gregg, toland, like this movie looks amazing. I have never seen a movie that that has so much of its scenes happen in utter Darkness, where there's like so many layers of darkness and everything is kind of framed with just these tiny, pinpoints of light. It's a gorgeous movie. I think the Cinematic language is great, but I'm with you like, if I'm being honest, I think the first half of this movie, Was significantly more compelling than the second half of the movie.

8:28 Yeah. And the second half of the movie is, like, where the actual meat and potatoes of the story happens. So the movie felt for me like way more successful in the first half where it was kind of like meditations on the plight of the average American. At this time, it was just like it was very Bleak and it was incredibly sad and I found myself choking up and crying at many many points. Yeah. And I'm not saying that, like, it's good because it's Sad, but it was it moved me. And then it kind of settles into A very small intimate story about this one particular family, and I understand that that family is supposed to be representative, right? But it felt more, just like, hey, here's some things that happen to these few people.

9:15 And I really struggled to care about those people, the way that I cared about the characters in the first half of the movie. Yeah, and it, to me, it got a little bit preachy, at the end of the movie, like the way the way Henry. The delivers his speech to, you know, Ma Joad played by Jane Darwell. Yeah. The way he delivers, his speech feels forced and if I'm being honest it feels almost like. It doesn't represent the trials that they've been through. It almost feels like he's like well this is this is what America needs right now. So I'm going to give this nice speech to get everybody feeling better about life. Yeah.

9:59 And I don't know. So if maybe that's that's just like the postmodern cynic in me. But so this is the great thing about doing this podcast because you know you come into a lot of these movies having never seen them before and I would imagine not understanding some of the cultural impact of some of the film's, right? But are you familiar with that speech in the history of movies? Like like that line is considered one of the most like one of the most famous lines in the history of Cinema. Like we're talking about, you know, There's a cop beating up a guy, I'll be there and doing the whole, I'll be there thing. It has been repeated and repeated and repeated for decades to the point where I couldn't believe the timing of this Brad.

10:40 Give me like ten seconds for an aside here. I turned I turned on an episode of Hey Arnold the other day. Remember that show when we were kids? Yeah, I love. Hey Arnold. And I was thinking about this episode with a character called pigeon, man. Remember pigeon, man. Heidi remember. Veggie man, I'm not pitching man. Was dug. It was? What know I was. Hey Arnold, it was. One of the First episodes of TV that as a kid. I was like, I feel emotional about this. And at the end of that episode, when pigeon man like gets carried off into the sunset, by his pigeons, he looks at Arnold and he starts talking about like, wherever there's a pigeon in need I'll be there and he does the whole Tom Joad speech and I could not believe like maybe it was something that was buried in my subconscious but I literally watched this two days ago and could not believe that the influence of that speech stretches.

11:30 Even into children's media in the late 1990s. So anyway, all that to say I agree with you. I do think that when I look at that speech, it doesn't feel authentic and organic to the character of Tom, Joad is exact time. Joe does not like an educated man, right? And and you can tell in that moment that he's like doing his best to kind of frame his new understanding of like the unity of people together and How we all share a piece of the same big Soul, kind of a thing. It kind of reminds me of like, they end of Forrest Gump. When Forrest Gump is talking to Jenny's grave and he's like you know huh? Is it like what what mama says about everyone has a Destiny or is it like Lieutenant Dan says about we're all floating around gentle like on a breeze maybe it's both. Like it kind of feels like they're trying to do that. Where you're watching this character, make this out in his own mind but it also it just comes Crosses like it's time for our main character to get on a soapbox for a little bit and and it make explicit what has already been made implicit and I'm with you for one of the most famous things ever. It doesn't totally work for me.

12:46 Yeah. And the thing is like, yes. As he was giving it, I was like, oh, I've heard this a million times before like even at the end of Dark Night. When yes, you know, like it has that feel of like nothing here that they wanted. But I'm the hero they need. Yeah, I like that was. That's hilarious because I was thinking of that as my other point of reference here that you know. So it's time for Jim Gordon to step up and be like let's let's bring this legendary character in legendary terms now. Hmm. And I there's part of me that I can't blame, you know, Grapes of Wrath for starting a trend but what I can say is what you said that, it feels soapbox e and it doesn't feel like it really fits in. Opinion, with all of the things that their family has experienced that that he would make that decision to run off and become a union iser.

13:42 Like I like, I don't really know what he's doing, but he, but he's gonna do it and he's gonna do great. I think Henry Fonda might be kind of miscast as Tom Joad, and, and he's way too educated, he's major educated and, and found a works best. In like in comedies, I think like so there's a great movie called The Lady Eve that he was in where he's basically playing like a, don't want to come stuck up but like, very naive and buttoned-up person who gets seduced by Barbara Stanwyck and it is, it's hilarious. But watching him be innocent and and get hot under the collar around Barbara, Stanwyck is just so funny and he just comes across as such an innocent doe eyed baby.

14:30 Faced guy that I'm like, you did kill somebody in a bar fight. Like, come on dude. You've met you've never killed anyone and throughout the movie, you know, I just couldn't get over this fact that this guy supposed to have this edgy passed to him. Because Henry Fonda is so much like the naive innocent face of America. That even somebody, I feel like a Gary Cooper would have worked so much better in this role than Fonda. And I'm not saying find it gives a bad performance but No it's like watching Tom Hanks be the hit man in Road to Perdition it's like he's great. I just don't totally buy it. Yeah just just not in my boy Tommy Hanks.

15:11 He's he's not killing anybody know I don't see it. No I agree man I he is just so Charming like I don't know if there's ever been an actor who has the soft-spoken charm of Henry Fonda. Like there's other actors out there who are super Charming But he just has this way of looking at, you know, whoever he's with on-screen and just kind of speaking quietly and calmly to them that you're just like find yourself agreeing with him. Like you're like, yeah, that that totally makes sense to me and there's something about that when he's it really kind of like rears its head at the very start when he gets in the truck with the guy and he's hitchhiking and he's like you want to know what I did.

15:59 And they like Get into this fight for like three minutes of whether or not he will tell them what he did. Right? And he's like, well mr. I'm not gonna be, I'm not gonna Welch on telling you. I killed a man and I'm just kind of like did you did you did you kill a guy? So Henry Fonda had a very famous lifelong friendship with Jimmy Stewart and Jimmy Stewart was a very conservative but like their I've read articles before. That's about their friendship and how their friendship Transcended their very active political lives, because they were both. Just really nice guys. And I think that that's the thing where like, you couldn't have Jimmy Stewart in this movie.

16:40 And I think by the same token, Henry Fonda as good as he is as much as this is one of his most beloved revered performances. I just can't shake that. He might be kind of miscast here. I wish that they had Jimmy Stewart is like one of the, the foreman evil guy. At the All right man. Let's talk about the rest of this cast and I think the place to start would be with Jane Dar. Well, as ma Joad, bro, she wins an Oscar for this movie. Okay. That's, that's good to hear. Because this is one of the best like, co-lead. So, supporting performances, whatever you want to call it by God. She is amazing there.

17:25 I used to watch Turner Classic Movies all the time, like growing up. I just loved watching it and it Tween movies. They would show these kind of, like, mini commercials or Snippets of a documentary that they produced. And they had this thing that was called like a hundred years of the movies and they kept showing it forever. And the clip, they showed, from The Grapes of Wrath in this like, you know, five-minute Montage was just the shot of her, holding the earrings up to her ears in the mirror. And you just watch her face, like, fall. And that face of hers, man, it says so much. Each about. Yep, hopes and dreams and lost dreams and lost hopes and the hopes and dreams of America. Like every theme, this movie is trying to shoot for like Finds Its manifestation in that woman's face. It's crazy how much her demeanor and expressions like carry the film.

18:21 Yeah, I mean, her performance is incredibly sincere and authentic and she just you can tell That she has been carrying the entire weight of this family on her back that like the the whole, you know, jalopy that they're driving is actually like emotionally, all of that stuff is on her back and she comes so close to cracking under the weight. So many times in this movie. And I just like you said, you just see it in her eyes on her. Face the way she talks to people the way she pauses when she's struggling before she responds to somebody's question like I in my opinion.

19:10 It's close to being the best performance in the movie. I really can't decide if it's her or Carradine as as Jim Casey. All right, let's put a pin in Carradine for just a minute because I want to keep talking about Darwell for just a second. Going back to your point about how the famous Fonda monologue. So that seemed forced this is where we get into like the end of the movie being different than the novel, because the studio basically was like, Hey, this movie is a freaking Downer and it's funny because it's like, did you not read this novel? Like you guys bought the rights? So they kind of made them tack on this happy ending after Tom Joad, wanders off into Oblivion.

19:52 They come back and everybody's packing up again the next day. And then ma Joad gives this kind of rousing speech at the end where she's like, you know, Oh, they keep trying to keep us down but we're the people and the people will always rise back up because we're the people and it is so at odds with the theme and the and all the actions of the movie up to that point which is like we should mourn for the average American and how they are being effed over by all of these other forces and how they're being kept down. And like yes, I understand Brad that like there's like the we should unionize and that's our way to Back. But even more than that, this movie is like, you know, that book that came out like a decade ago, that hillbilly elegy book, or whatever like this movie is like an elegy for, you know, Middle America at this time.

20:44 And that last speech was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen to the point where like it felt like they almost undermined our wells whole performance, just attack that thing on there. Yeah and that's why I like if I could just cut out Out Fonda's final speech and her final speech, I think I would score this movie like two and a half points higher like like they really just kind of crush what this movie was going for. And like you said that, that's not to say that there's not a lot of really beautiful stuff happening here. I just, you know, it's I guess it's another example of this, the powerful Studio pressure of ye olden days, kind of taking something that Had Direction and had vision and being pigeon-holed into an ending that just didn't fit what Ford had been going on. Yeah, all right.

21:39 Let's go back to the cast here. You want to talk about John Carradine? Oh dude, he see, he gives speeches in this movie and I'm just in raptured like he's like that. That older guy that you know, that just everything he says is philosophical, you know, hmm. And and just Makes you think deeply about not just the world, but your own life and go, huh? I never thought about life that way before I need to go drink a few beers. He's very much, you know, this is the character that even without reading the book, seems the most like, oh, this is John Steinbeck. Mmm.

22:21 Sermonizing through a character and and I try not to hold it against Carradine, but it's very obvious and I, this might be a good place to kind of segue into Talking about Steinbeck. This is the second Steinbeck movie we've done in the podcast and you know Steinbeck is very famous for I guess if I could say anything like trying really hard to write the Great American novel, trying to capture the idea of America in a book and I think more than any other author, he's kind of successful at making the story of America be biblical in scope. Right. And you find that in its most literal form in East of Eden. Yeah, but he has this very biblical vision of like Divine wrath and judgment and Providence all running through his Works.

23:12 What makes Steinbeck's books kind of stand out as these these books that either are the Great American novels or just trying so hard to be. Is that he's one of the few that understands that leg. You can't tell the story of America without dealing with the influence of religion on this country, right? Like there has to be, you know, we had this with There Will Be Blood where it's like I may not agree with what Paul Thomas Anderson is saying here. But like he's shooting for the stars with like, trying to pin down what America is with just conflict of capitalism and religion and Steinbeck's doing the same thing here. And he's doing it through this preacher who has basically lost his faith and finds a new religion in.

23:54 Like, I mean, you know, to your term, like unionizing like, right, rising up with the people to fight back against these forces, social justice. I guess we could call it and it's really hard to know what. It is an element of the script and what's an element of Steinbeck. But this character also comes across a lot to me as like this seems very forced. And this seems very like, I am being force-fed. The themes that they're trying to get across through this character but even in the midst of that because I'm with you 100%, I don't know what it is about Carradine. I don't think we've ever had him on the show before he was in Stagecoach.

24:38 Oh, okay. Yeah man. There's like the stuck-up guy that didn't like the the hooker on the stagecoach. Oh yeah. Maybe that's when he was still a pastor that tracks. Yeah. So I guess the thing for me with Carradine is I just love his performance. Yeah. Like similarly to find I like I don't always like what Fonda is saying but I think he's a great actor for some even I think maybe because I don't know Carradine as well I just was enraptured every single time I saw him. Come on screen and just loved the way he interacted with other people.

25:20 How thoughtful he was when he gave answers and maybe I didn't maybe I liked his performance more because there's an element of his you know, in like characters backstory that makes more sense for him to be philosophizing. And talking all these big ideas and it makes sense like this is a man of the cloth who has thought about the fate of humanity and all these things. And so it just kind of fits his character more, which I think lets me enjoy the, the cheesiness of his performance a little bit more. Alright. So for me, the character and the performance in this movie that will stay with me forever.

26:03 And I don't even know if I'm pronouncing, his last name correctly, but the actor's name is John qualen. Or maybe koala. And I don't know, we've had him on the show before once in a very, very minor part in Casablanca, but in this movie, He plays a character named you lie and muley shows up for like 10 minutes in the first half hour of this film. And this phone starts in a very interesting way like it starts and you think it's going somewhere, you know, Tom Joad is going home to meet his family, he gets home and no one's there and it's like a ghost town and he goes in the house. And there's this guy who's just like His parents empty home and the whole scene is lit with candle light and it looks like a ghost story.

26:43 It looks like someone shining a can't like a flashlight under their chin. To tell a scary story and you ge can remind me of Gone. Gone With the Wind like shit. Yeah turns. Yep. That's a great point. And like you get this flashback to how the bank's, kicked everybody off their land and there's nothing anyone can do about it and they flashback forward. And this dude, muley is Such a broken, man. And he is, this this actor. John qualen is acting in such a naturalistic and, and frankly, modern way that it's like Stark and it is heartbreaking. And I think haunted is the only word I can use man.

27:23 Like, the images of that man are the most profound thing in this movie to me. Yeah. Well in the, the speech that the, I guess, he's like a foreman kind of gives of like, well, who am I gonna go? Shoot, Take care of this, and they just kind of go through the loop of like, well, the bankers, are they owe it to this company and they owe it to that. And if you do that, then you got to go all the way out of these coasts did and it just kind of Loops back to the fact that there's literally nothing muley can do. Yeah, to save his land and you feel in that moment the helplessness of it all. And when he collapses on the ground and is like, you know, with like what is a, what is a man supposed to do?

28:07 Like what would make this his land, any more than the fact that they have been born lived and died? Like there's my my family and his voice is like breaking it. He's like it's supposed to have died here and it's just like, oh my god, dude, what Justice this? It's brittle heartbreaking, this movie like, I know, I'm not selling it to people, but like I think if there's one thing I can really complement this movie on, especially in the first half, it is that this movie is 82 years old now. And rarely have we seen a film that is as emotionally effective as this movie is. Like, I felt things watching this movie that I rarely feel watching movies that are made today, and I think that goes back to Ford and we're going to talk about him in the second half of the episode. But it's so successful at making you feel the plight of these people?

29:02 Yeah. I mean, I don't know who the actor is but the guy that they run into on the way to California who like kind of won't tell them what the reality is, but they finally go to into it. And he, dude, he when he talks about his family dying, I was done to the point where, like, I can't believe they did that in a movie in 1940. Like, yeah, like again, I don't want to call this movie subversive because it was, like, the book came out in 1939, and they immediately made a movie out of it. The book is going through this kind of backlash where people are calling it, like, a Meanest book and the Red Scare was kind of going through Americorps right before WWII. And they were really worried that this was going to play like a pro communist movie which again is like did you guys read the book before you started making the movie? But you don't have people talking about watching their children.

29:56 Starve to death in a movie in America, in 1940. Like it is, it's shocking to see this on screen quite frankly. Yeah. Well and it And it just plays so differently than. So, all of the other movies that were coming out at the time, but it reflects, what was going on in the west at the time, like, if there's anything about this movie, that feels honest. It's when you go back and read actual historical accounts of the, the Dust Bowl and the migrant train, moving West into California, where the supposed to be work. And, and, you know, the stories about the The workers camps that they would set up.

30:41 I mean, dude, it was, it was not pretty man, like it was brutal. What was happening out there before we go to break? I hope this lighten things up a little bit, but it's also, again, the influence of The Grapes of Wrath. One of my all-time favorite TV shows. And I am not ashamed to admit, it is South Park and South Park, especially in the really great seasons was was some of the best social commentary. Three on television and they did it in such a way that like, they could disguise it behind this ridiculous. Childish humor, there's an episode of South Park called Margaritaville and one of the subplots of that episode is that Stan's dad has bought this Margaritaville margarita maker and it has been spending the family's money on frivolous things.

31:28 And so Stan wants to return it and so he takes it back to the store. I think he got it at Sur La Table and and the guy is Sur Le table. Is like, oh no, you don't want to go here. Like we got this from this, you know, where housing or 3rd party seller and he goes to the 3rd party seller in the guys like no, no, this was all packaged in at raunch with blah blah blah and it basically becomes like a metaphor for the housing crisis. I wanna return this Margaritaville and the guy at Sur Le table said that you are the company that financed it. Oh yeah. No you know what? No. Yeah what. Yeah we can't give you your money back for that. Ya know you'd have to talk to the people on Wall Street. Yeah. Yeah, Wall Street.

32:10 Yeah, no. See what I do is find Americans who want a frozen beverage machine, but can't afford one and I hooked them up with investors who want to get into the Margaritaville payment plan business. Yeah, so yeah. So the problem is your Margaritaville. Payment plan has been combined with thousands of others into one big Margaritaville security. Yeah, no, yeah no. Yeah. And it is literally lifted from The Grapes of Wrath where they're Muley like what you want me to do? Like I'm just the guy that sold it to you. The people that own it live in New York. Are you going to go all the way to New York and it's so funny how the influence of this is still felt today. And yet at the same time, I think one of the lessons I took away from this movie was you could set this movie in 2022 and a lot of the same stuff is still happening.

32:59 Like it's kind of crazy how far we've gotten you know, chronologically from here and and how little has changed. Changed in some ways. Yeah I mean the the way that people are at each other's throats, feels not know, weirdly pression. All right, man, well we need to drown our sorrows here. So let's flip over to a different kind of grapes here. And let's look at this Rabbit Hole. Finished in PX. Casks. What do you say? Let's get to it. Alright, so today we are checking out Rabbit Hole Derringer straight bourbon whiskey. Finished in PX, casks, Brad, we've talked a little bit before about Whiskey's that are finished in Sherry, casks, Pedro, Jimenez, Sherry, casks.

33:49 It's a very specific kind of Sherry that is made. Like in one little region in Spain. It is considered to be like one of the best of the best when it comes to certain types of Sherry. We've Had a few PX finishes before, I don't know if we've ever done a bourbon finished in PX casks and this Derringer from rabbit hole is one of the like it's considered one of the best ones. This is actually the first thing from Rabbit Hole we've ever had on the show, which I'm super surprised at there. Are a lot of really huge Rabbit Hole fans out there and we've just never happened to stumble upon their product before. So we're starting not with their regular bourbon but here with one of their finished products.

34:29 Yeah. And I've seen Ton of their stuff on the Instagrams and, you know, social media and so I, yeah, I'm with you, man. I'm really excited to get into rabbit hole. It's a brand, I've, you know, kind of seen from afar for a while now. So this is a weeded bourbon. Its 68% corn, 18% wheat 14% malted barley in the mash. Bill did carry an age statement of at least five years for a while. I don't know if they still have that statement on the bottle. We're drinking a sample from our friend. Austin Dupree at The Bourbon earring podcast, so I don't have the bottle in front of me and to know whether or not, this is from when it was still five year age stated but aside from all that it's clocking in at 93 proof.

35:12 So right in that kind of Sweet Spot range that we really like Brad. Where it's not too thin, not too potent yet. I'm really looking forward to this. I know you've already tasted it. I'm pouring it out in front of me right now. So why don't you give us your nosing notes? Brad. Yeah. This had a ton of cherry and Men on the on the front of the nose after sitting with it for a little while, it kind of dove into that raisin feel. And then I was it took me a while to figure this out. It kind of just smells, I have, this very specific memory of building a shed with my dad and it had rained overnight unexpectedly and we had left, you know, some of the, the wood we were using out in the rain and it just smells Mel's like wet wood.

36:02 Hmm. Like it's a very specific knows it's not like you know like Okie or anything like that. It's this really like what musty would smell that? That I'm kind of digging. I like what they're doing here. It's not blowing me away yet. So I gave it a 7 and a half on the nose, Bob, but what are you getting right now? Yeah, I'm actually coming out to something similar to what we used to call the Willett Funk. And when we Revisited our last Willett product, which I think was Rowan's, Creak I realized that it's not actually really a funk. It's more of a like a rose that I get on this but there's a certain like Dusty floral quality that comes with, will it products sometimes? And I'm getting that here, it's a ton of sawdust, but then a lot of floral, a lot of rows for me, I do get the raisin that you were talking about.

36:47 I'm not so much getting the Cherry. It's definitely got more of like a dark fruit going on with it, which I really like, I will say this smells a little bit more potent that I was expecting it to like, I had to I'll pull my nose back out of the glass a couple times because the alcohol was really jumping out of the glass on this one for me, but I think overall it's really inviting and it's right up my alley. So I'm going to give it an 8 out of 10 on the nose. Yeah. And then we get into the palette. The The Taste on this. I was really Blown Away by I think the basic introduction, I would give is just it's incredibly Pleasant. The I think the 93 proof point is right where they needed to be with this.

37:29 It had notes of like Grape Jam kind of got into it like a creamy cherry cordial, feel and then a lot of that Oak started coming through and I almost got like a little bit of a weird pair note on the very back end of the palate. It got it started to get into some different fruits for me. I was really fascinated and really enjoyed this palette. I give it a 9 out of 10 Bob. Yeah, I don't think I'm quite there with you Brad. I like it. But it stays in that. Very dark fruit range for me. It's got almost like a little bit of date on it for me, but I think the predominant note on this is prune, not just raisin but prune it. So like if you're not a fan of eating prunes, like I don't know how you'll feel about this one, but it stayed, not bitter, but definitely not like syrupy sweet. And it is a little bit more spicy and kind of prickly. Then I would have thought at 93 proof, right? As I was tipping it up to my lips. I was kind of inhaling a bit.

38:30 I just breathed in straight ethanol on this. And so you know, at only 93 proof I'm a little shocked at how hot this drinks I still think it's really good, it's not thin It Coats the mouth but it's really prune heavy. And I think that's the influence again of these PX, casks. I like it a lot. It's not a 9 for me. I'm gonna give it a seven and a half on the taste Bob, don't, you know, you're not supposed to inhale, you specifics, let it sit in there. Yeah. That was something that, like, I don't smoke cigars enough to really I know what I'm doing, but I just remember very early on when people are like, oh you're not supposed to inhale. I was like that. Then why am I doing this? Yeah well I can just stick burn at the end of your life.

39:15 Yeah, I've learned how to do it a little bit since then, but I just remember that being one of the most ridiculous statements. All right, before we go into the finish, the balance, I got a question for you because I just took my second and third sip of this and now I'm out. So I got the wheat influence on the second and third sip. It had like a little bit of that kind of like Coca-Cola effervescence that I talk about all the time with wheat whiskeys. I don't know that the Sherry finish on a weeded bourbon is the combination. I necessarily would have wanted here. Like, I wonder if this would have worked better with a high Rye bourbon instead of a higher wheat bourbon. And I just would really like to know your thoughts on this. I mean, I think that you're, you're kind of hitting a similar vein of flavors with, with the Sherry finished high wheat bourbon, which it just kind of depends, like, do you want that similar flavor being strengthened or do you want the complexity of, you know, the the baking spices you might get on a ride?

40:21 I paired with some of those sweet raise any notes that you would get from the Sherry? I for me I think it works on this in the palette. And the the Finish we haven't gotten to yet. I was a little not as strong with, so I don't know. I I guess I'd say it's probably just personal preference. Yeah, yeah. I mean I'm anxious to hear what your finished score is. I sense. I'm talking, I'll just give mine real quick. I kind of forgot about the finished already. If I'm being honest with you it was fine. I do think it's where the wheat influence comes back a little bit, so it's like very heavily. She read very heavily pruney and then it's like, oh, hey remember what route? Your tastes. Like, here's a little bit of that in the end.

41:03 It was a weird mash up for me and I think that's where I started to have questions about the mash-up of these two things. So I'm going to give it a seven on the Finish. It's not bad but it just was off enough to make me start asking questions. Yeah I'm with you I think that the finish for me it was very short. I got some raisin notes. It definitely got Okie in a just slightly bitter. I came down pretty far from the palette to the finish. I'll give it a six and a half on the Finish. Wow. All right. See that shit? That's gonna put you in an interesting spot for balance, right? Yeah, well, I gave it a 7 on balance, it's an up-and-down experience of a whiskey, but I will say that it was decently complex throughout.

41:51 And I think the complexity of flavors that I get keeps it the balance core little higher. It's definitely, a really tasty whiskey. It just the nose and finish, our little bit lacking compared to the palate. I do think it's worth reminding listeners. How we determined, what we call balance here. I think a lot of times when someone's tasting something and they talk about the balance of the taste, they're just basically saying like are all the flavors in harmony with each other and we kind of take that into consideration. But what this really is, is like a chronological from start to finish, was there a part of this drinking experience that was like significantly worse or significantly better than the rest? Out of it. Or is it a nice consistent experience throughout?

42:33 That's what we consider to be balanced and I think you're right. Brad, it does kind of drop off a little bit from the nose through to the finish. I'm gonna give it a seven and a half on the balance and that brings me out before the value score to a 30 so far Brad, what does this cost in the state of Ohio? This is an eighty dollar bottle of whiskey. Yeah, yeah. Here's the thing, I really want to get rabbit holes Master distiller on the podcast and I have a feeling that this is not going to be like the bait that I was thinking it would be man 80s, 80s too much, Brad like I can't even I can't even play the game of like, well, you know, it's been a really small batch and bit but 80s too much for this. Yeah, I would even say like, 60 is too much for this. I think so too.

43:25 I think this is like a 40 to 50 dollar bottle of whiskey. Yeah. Just based on the taste, right. I mean, like us based on the taste, we know, what goes into the process? Yes. Yeah. The the acquisition of these very specific Sherry barrels to finish it in like there's a lot going in here. $60 is probably a fair price point for it but based on the flavor here, I think $80 is a little bit steep. I give it a 5 out of 10. I'm value. I it's solid in the realm of finished whiskeys, but not great enough to be an eighty dollar bottle. Yeah, I'm gonna give it a four and a half on value that and that brings me out to a 34.5 out of 50.

44:08 Brad, what are you coming out to? I'm right there with you man. I'm at a 35 out of 50. All right, so that brings us to a sixty nine point five out of 100 or a thirty four point seven five out of 50. This is right below the 35, Mark, which is where we usually start, recommending. Hey, you should try this at the bar, or you should go out and get a bottle. I think this is worth trying. This is not a bad whiskey. Yeah, but I would definitely recommend trying rather than buying Yeah, I would say that there's this kind of fine line of like, if this Whiskey cost like $40 and the poor of it cost, you know, ten to twelve dollars.

44:52 I'd be like I can just buy the bottle but at at $80, you're only going to pay nine to twelve dollars for a poor. And I would say that that's well worth it. It really is an incredible palette that kind of keeps this score high for me. So I think it's a worthwhile I'll whiskey to try. Just struggles enough that it doesn't justify the price tag. All right. That's our thoughts on Rabbit Hole. PX finish Brad. Let's get back into talking about The Grapes of Wrath. What do you say? Let's get to it. All right, everybody. That was Rabbit Hole PX finish. We just finished talking about a grape finished whiskey. Now we're going to get back into a grape themed movie. I love this so much.

45:38 You. I love this so much. I've been trying real hard to pair up the Whiskey's with the movies in a much more cohesive fashion lately and this is like, you got to do the grape theme, you know, did see it's pretty obvious. Babam I'm with you there. All right, now that we're nice and liquored up. It is time for Brad's favorite segment of the show, which we should just be calling annihilate, Bob's confidence in himself. Hey man, you're doing pretty good. I think I'm like one over 500. I think I'm seven and six right now seven and I believe seven and six is your record. All right? Well, alright. So anyway, this segment is called to facts and a falsehood, this is where Brad presents, three things. As fact about this movie and I had to decide, which one of them, he completely made up fact, number one, By John Steinbeck.

46:26 Have you heard of him? Bob, I have he values love the fact. All right, moving on to the next one Steinbeck really like truly. Loved the performance of Henry Fonda is Tom Joad. And just really felt like he perfectly encapsulated all the things he wanted to convey with the character. So much to the point that the two became really really great friends and Henry, On the did a reading at Steinbeck's funeral. Wow. Hey, guess what guess what? John Steinbeck was wrong. That I'm just saying, I don't care what your authorial intent was, he was miscast. Maybe that's maybe that's the falsehood. That's true.

47:11 That's true. Fax number two, Henry Fonda was so afraid of portraying the role poorly that he actually spent an entire month. Working in a migrant camp in California to like really make sure he understood the Shins that he would be acting in and he was all about it. He got him carry, he pulled a De Niro, Taxi Driver situation, there you go fact. Number three, Henry Fonda currently holds the record for the longest gap between acting October Oscar nominations. His first, nomination was for The Grapes of Wrath in 1940 and his second was for On Golden Pond in, do you know the year Bob?

47:58 1981. Yeah, job you got we got a we're saying Point. You're saying he was only nominated twice. I'm saying that that is the longest gap between a combinations, maybe he was nominated before that and after that. But, but that was the gap between those, was he nominated for twelve Angry Men? cuz that's like, I mean, I know he was obviously nominated for On Golden Pond because he wins for that movie like I find it hard to believe that Henry Fonda was only was not nominated for 41 years in between these roles.

48:39 However, I also find it hard to believe that Henry Fonda went and worked on a migrant farm. And this is all about it, man. This is the Dilemma. I think that whatever that Steinbeck would have liked his performance ridiculous. I think that I am going to be wrong regardless of what I pick. So, I felt pretty strongly that number 2 is false. I feel very skeptical about number three, but I'm gonna go with my gut and say, to is the falsehood Bob. Number two is the falsehood. Yeah, got it, man. All right. Yeah, he Academy of Motion. Picture Arts and Sciences. What the hell were you doing for 41 years? Yeah.

49:20 Now he he was nominated for twelve angry men, as a producer, he was not nominated as an actor. Wow, that's surprising. I know huh I read that and I was like wait a second. Hold on. He didn't get nominated for twelve angry men. That's crazy, man, the although it's rocker it really is. I'm trying to remember was the Red Scare kind of over by then by 58 was it? I feel like it was probably winding down a bit but it was still there because that that might be a reason he that's true nominated. That's true. That'd be a guess.

50:01 All right man. Well I'm gonna bask in the glow of my win. I'm up to 8 and 6 now you. Thanks man. You're doing it. Let's talk about John Ford because he is the reason we're talking about this movie today and we have not mentioned him like at all. Yet there's a few things you need to know about John Ford. He is one of the first directors to be considered a naught or and we've talked a little bit about the auteur theory here. I don't really want to get into the specifics of it Brad but like Just give the basics. What's an altar in the night? Well, so they did have an art or is that like the director is the author of the film, right? And this has been misinterpreted, in a lot of ways over the years that gets very technical about like what that means. But like in the 1950s, in France, in you know, this magazine called Chi a to cinema.

50:47 They're doing this really high-level analysis of film and basically trying to present like hey film is an artistic medium that should be regarded as seriously as these Cystic mediums. And we're going to hold up certain directors and talk about how they have themes running across their pictures, and how you can see the author behind the movie. And John Ford is one of the first people that is really held up as like this is one of our great directors. And, you know, he had been lauded in America, like he was, I think he won for best directing Oscars. Like he's still holds the record for most best director wins but But, you know, he directed westerns and I think westerns were kind of seen as like the people's movies. So like, they weren't talked about in these super artistic ways and yet, like, when you watch a movie like The Searchers, are you watching movie like this? And you look at the way that this man put images on screen. It's I mean it's pretty striking Brad, even if a lot of his movies are just kind of like the quote-unquote Cowboys and Indians type movies.

51:54 There always seems to be a little, something more going on. Yeah, it Looks like he has an ability to draw the strings of like what's going on in America at the time into every single one of his movies. Yeah, you're right. He always seems to be trying to like mythologize about America and the cool thing about Ford though is that like there are certain movies where it seems like he is feeding into the myth of like American exceptionalism. The I mean like we deserve to be here and like, Ethel these native Americans, you know what I mean? And then there's other movies where he's like, no actually. The myth of America is just that, like, none of this is real.

52:37 And we are creating legends about the old west in ways that the old west never existed. One of his most famous movies is called The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance and that whole movie is about this story of a guy who's gotten really famous off of an act. He committed of like shooting a famous Outlaw. It's very much like the assassination of James. And at the end of that movie, you get this famous line about how when the legend becomes fact, print the legend and it's this like agreement that we've all made that like we're not going to examine what really happened because it's a better story to tell like the mythology of it. And so for kind of goes back and forth between propping up that myth and then like tearing it down again and The Grapes of Wrath is such an interesting movie in his Cannon because it is very much.

53:27 This is what Erica really looks like and this is what it looks like right now. I think that's one thing we forget about this movie, this was happening in real life at the time. This movie came out, it was almost like he was trying to make a documentary of this is what life is, like, for these migrant workers. And that's a really rare thing to get in Hollywood. We don't get movies about current events as they're happening. And yet, here's the word doing it, and it's almost like the, the modern version of The Grapes of Wrath. Is Childish, Gambino's. This is America. I was, you know, I was just reading an article the other day about Zero Dark Thirty a movie which we may or may not be reviewing this season.

54:10 And how like that's one of the few movies about the Iraq war or the word Afghanistan. You know, our Middle Eastern activities that came out while we were still there and yet, it's very famously a movie that the CIA was like feeding them information on and so it's like here's what the government wants you to think. And in that scenario. Hmm. And and so, it's even more of like this. It's just crazy to me that this movie gets made that this book gets written, and that it captures the attention of Americans in such a profound way. Like, while it's happening. Well, I mean, in the research that I was doing for two facts in a falsehood, they basically said that they had to they filmed this under the codename. I think it was Route 66.

54:59 To keep the workers in the area from knowing what they were filming because the book was so explosive. And, you know, we talked earlier about the unionization movement and all that, but they were like terrified that people were going to come protest this movie because of what it was saying about the current goings-on of America. And, you know, it's I guess it just goes to prove that like, you know, we think that nowadays, It's dangerous to talk about what's going on in America right now. But like man, it's always been a little bit crazy to do politically motivated proclamations.

55:40 Right? In the midst of, you know, the the craziness that can be people trying to run a country together. Well, and I think this is where you, you can most immediately see why Ford is considered such a strong director because this movie becomes so successful that it then drive. More sales of the book and the book was so controversial. And until the movie came out, and then the movie came out, and people were like, oh, I get it now, like I'm on Henry Fonda side now. Almost at Henry, Ford. That's the opposite of what this movie is about. But people are like, I'm on Henry Fonda side and it plays into the power of movie, making the power of putting this face on a screen, 40 feet tall and showing people, you know, whether it's real or not the plight. Of what's happening in America that this then like gets everybody on the side of the point of view of Steinbeck. And yeah, I want to go back real quick. I was reading an article today about John Ford and why he's considered an otter.

56:42 And I'm going to read a quote from that and then there's like a quote within a quote, but the author of this article says, perhaps the image, which most dominates Ford's legacy today, is the last shot of John Wayne standing alone in the desert as the door closes to shut. Mount. This is in the Searchers will talk about this next week. It's the ultimate expression of what's been identified as the 40 and hero a figure who is necessary to solve society's problems, but tragically unable to enjoy them which you see with Tom Joad, in this movie, right? And then he goes on to say, as John Baxter wrote in a 1971 analysis of Ford's work. Ford makes most of his Heroes Outsiders chronic Wanderers, who accept the necessity of serving Society.

57:28 Admire its virtues secretly wish to be part of it, but are driven by personal motives to reject its security. This is something we're going to keep seeing with Ford that, that his heroes are almost always loners. Almost always Outsiders that there's something like inherent to society, that pushes them out, whether it's their own flaws, or, it's a flaw with society. And I think when you frame it that way, this movie makes a lot of sense in film in Ford's filmography. Like he clearly sees Tom Joad as the Rowe, who is a victim of a society that won't accept people like him. And I don't know, man. I whether it's successful or not, I think I'd like to hear from you Brad but I think that's kind of how we're framing this movie in Ford's filmography.

58:14 Yeah, I mean, it's a fascinating way to talk about an archetypal character and you see in the public Consciousness that, I mean, look at our look at our 2016 election, like Trump, Lately ran on the idea of like I'm an outsider to the to the world of politics, who can come in and like, get things done. And I think that people really latched onto that and you know, you see that even in other movies. Like, as soon as you started talking about the character, I was like, oh, all I could see was the opening of gladiator, when Richard Harris, is trying to pass the throne on to Maximus, right heel. Really gives the speech that you just gave like, like, we don't need another spoiled brat who's been brought up in the system, we need somebody from the outside, who doesn't care for the trappings of the throne and who can guide us into a better future.

59:12 Like, you know, that's, that's 60 years after this film comes out, you know, that wins the Oscar, right? So yeah, I think that it's a fascinating. I don't know. I love the idea of these archetypal Characters that just capture the Public's imagination because I think that we've seen that idea of the outsider stick in the public Consciousness and I wonder if it's partially just because of how popular John Ford was as a director. Yeah. And I think it's important to say to that like Ford views these people as tragic Heroes, right? Like, they are ultimately doomed to be rejected by Society or to become to be loners and to stay loners, like it's there. Heroic and also a figure of tragedy. And so, I mean, let's go into, I was a look at Bogart in Casablanca.

1:00:07 Yeah. I mean, I feel like he's more of an antihero. But like this, this is kind of the precursor to the anti-hero write. Like this is the precursor to what you see in like film Noir, right? Like the rough-edged guy but here, it's like, he's a victim of forces that are Beyond his control. And I think about comparison you made if we're getting into Our new segment. Let's make it a double where we talk about pairing this up with another movie. I think the Dark Knight is actually a really, really great comparison Brad like because that is exactly what the end of that movie is about that. Like he is doomed. Batman is doomed to be a figure who is rejected by society, and we will never understand why we needed him, but we need him and we just don't get it yet and he's a victim of that that is as explicit as that can possibly get. So I mean, I don't want to take your pick for you but like I feel like you already had the best possible pick here if I was going to pick a movie to lighten things up here at the end of our episode.

1:01:06 Brad, I'm going to choose a movie. That is also about a man who, unfortunately killed another man in a drunken bar fight, who's just getting out of prison, who wants to go home and see his family. And yet, his family is being taken from him on his Westward flight. And when I say Westward flight, I mean a literal flight because I'm King about Nicolas Cage in Conair, I want to pair this. I want to pair this movie up with Conair, which is again a real and true metaphor for life in the American West. This time in the late 1990s when your plane gets hijacked by John Malkovich, Bob, I have never seen a con. Are you have now?

1:01:52 Because you've seen The Grapes of Wrath, okay? What I'm saying is it is The Grapes of Wrath of the 1990s. That is amazing, man. Yeah man, I the way that you were talking just a minute ago about, you know, a movie with a hero where things are just completely out of his control. It kind of got me thinking and we're going to stay in the vein of Western. But where do we come to a very much more modern Western. I think I'm going to pair this because I want, I want the ending of this movie to be more depressing. So I'm going to, I'm going to pick a movie. That's a little more depressing. The, where am I going? Bob, you're going to pick No Country for Old Men. I'm going to pick No Country For Old. Yeah, you are.

1:02:33 Good choice. I we once again get to hear your incredible pronunciation of No Country for Old Men. That's right. No Country for Gary Oldman. I like it. I do kind of, I mean, you know, again, we don't want to spoil the ending of the book but like, you know, just get on Wikipedia, this book is Bleak, mmm, like Ali Bleak, and I feel like Cormac McCarthy about is the Coen brothers would be happy. I would say it's about, as Bleak as Anton sugars outlook on life. All right, there you have it. Three really good pics from both of us. I if I do say so myself Con Air is the most obvious of three like it. Come on.

1:03:16 Why would you not watch Conair Brad? Let's get into final scores here. Just put quite frankly. This is a good, a really good movie. That is not the 22nd greatest film ever made. And I'm actually really surprised to see it that high on the list because there's a few movies, like this on the list that are kind of, like their never debated. But I never hear anyone talk about them either. And so like, I've I have never seen someone on like Twitter or whatever be like, hey how about The Grapes of Wrath? Like the Searchers gets all the conversation because its controversial, but at least it's getting conversation. I have literally never seen a conversation about the movie, The Grapes of Wrath and so Oh, like you just had one. Yeah.

1:04:00 Right. And we're the first, we're we all get first. We're gonna get all the views on this one, man, but this is like an eight and a half Brad, and I feel like it could have been a 10 if it had stuck with the tone of the first half of the movie. But it settles into a really conventional story in the second half and I just feel like it loses a lot of steam for me. So I'm gonna give it an eight and a half out of ten. Yeah, I think that this movie starts with like a nine and a half. Attend and drops to like a seven out of ten by the end of the movie, man. I really really lost interest in this movie and that's not a good thing to say.

1:04:43 So I think I'm going to give it a seven and a half out of ten Bob. All right, that brings us to an average of an 8 out of 10, which I mean is fair. And I think that, you know, again, it's maybe the Great American novel debatable. But this, Is a movie that was really important, 80 years ago, that still has many, many effective sequences, 80 years later, but it's just not a perfect film, and I don't know that I would even call it anywhere approaching John Ford's best film. But we'd like to know what you think, are you a huge fan of the book or the movie, The Grapes of Wrath? You can find us on our social media to tell us all about it Facebook, Twitter, Instagram or Tik-Tok at film whiskey or you can jump onto our Discord. We as Bob said before, we're on there, every single day talking. To you guys, the people who listen to our podcast, you can find a link to our Discord at the end of every single one of our show notes.

1:05:36 Next week, we keep the John Ford train Rollin here and we are going to be looking at his most controversial film The Searchers join us for that next week. But until then, I'm Bob book, I'm Brad G and we'll see you next time.