Secondhand Lions / Angel's Envy

0:00 In 2003 director, Tim McCann Lee's and stars, Robert Duvall, and Michael Caine gave the world a heartwarming. Coming-of-age story that pulls no punches in 2022. We try our first sample of one of America's first finished Whiskey's. The film is Secondhand Lions. The whiskey is Angel's envy and we'll review them both. This is the film and whiskey podcast.

0:45 Welcome to the film and whiskey podcast, where each week, we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey. I'm Bob book, I'm Brad G. And this week we're looking at the 2003 film Secondhand Lions, a movie that may have In mentioned, more than any other film in the history of this podcast, because if you're a listener, you know, this might be Brad's favorite movie ever. It's up there, man. You love this movie brat. Dude, I'm just going to start with the story of the first time I ever saw a Secondhand Lions. I'm going to the theaters with my grandmother, just her and I were going to see Secondhand Lions.

1:28 Now, this was back in the The day, I know, I'm going to lose anybody who's under the age of like 25, but this is back in the day when you had a newspaper delivered to your house every week and in that newspaper Bob, I'm sure you'll remember the local theaters would print movie times, right? Sure. And you got to look and see when what day, and what time movies were showing. Well, so it's Saturday morning, my grandma pulls out the paper, and it says that the movie starts at like 10 20. And so, you know, it's 950 and We're driving on over, I'm yelling at my grandma for going like 42 and a 25. And we get to the the movie theater and the movie theater is locked. There's not a single car in the parking lot and it is obviously that they printed the wrong time and in the paper right? It's probably 11:20.

2:22 So my grandmother, who at this time is probably like, I don't know, 80 82 proceeds to get out. We look in the front doors, it's obviously closed. And Bob you've been to Cinemark in Valley View. Correct. So why don't you inform the audience? How big that movie theater is? I think it's like 24:26 screens. It's it's a massive Multiplex. I remember when it was built it was like one of the three largest Cinemas in the country. My grandma proceeded to walk around that entire building, checking every single door to try and get in. So she could yell at somebody for the the wrong time being printed. I don't know exactly what she was so angry about but no joke. We walked around that entire building checking every single door to get into this, this theater. That was so obviously closed.

3:20 All right. So then when did you see the movie? So we stayed there for an hour until they opened up. My grandma went in and she yelled at somebody and some poor teenager had to listen to my 80 year, old grandma, yell at them, bore the brunt of that. Yeah, it's great hats off to them man, but then we went in and we saw Secondhand Lions and as like, I probably was 2003. So I was like 12 or 13 years old. And my grandma. It was me my grandma and maybe like four other people in this movie theater and she was just laughing her butt off the entire film.

4:04 Like, almost every third line, she was just losing it and I'm sitting there, like, dipping down in my seat, like Grandpa, why are you laughing so much? But since that first faded movie watching experience, it became like my family's favorite V to watch with people because like, when we'd have people over and we go to pick a movie to watch and avidly, they be like, oh, have you seen Secondhand Lions? And, of course they hadn't because nobody's seen it. And so, my parents who I do, you need to watch Secondhand Lions. And so, I'm pretty sure at this point. It's my like most-watched movie overall. I've probably seen it a bob book amount of time, like, 15 to 20 times.

4:46 I love that story, man. Yeah, dude. I'm glad you kind of admitted upfront to that. There is a huge sentimental attachment to this movie, like aside from, you know, it just hitting you at the right age. Like that's a story that you shared with your grandma forever. That's a story that you share with your family forever. Like, that's the kind of movie watching experience that sticks with you and that matters and I responded. I was going to say this is like my most memorable movie attending experience actually my Second most was seeing Godzilla when I lived in Philly, but that's a story for another day. So let me preface the whole rest of the episode with this like Brad. I know you're going to give this movie a 10 out of 10 and you probably know that I'm not going to give this movie A 10/10.

5:31 And I think it in some ways, the scores we give this movie, don't matter at all. Because this is, this is you sharing with me a part of yourself. This is what movies do best, right? And this is usually the kind of thing that I would say at the end of the episode to have some Of nice sentimental thing to carry us off into the next week. But I want to say it here because this is what movies do for people. And at the end of the day you like what you like. And I think in some ways like if a movie just happens to hit you at the right time, you can't even help what you like sometimes. You know the movie that you and your significant other saw on your very first date is a story that you're going to share forever whether or not it was the greatest film you've ever seen.

6:14 And I think whether or not you remember any of the She, hey, there it is. And Brad, I think that you would probably admit, like, objectively speaking. This is not the greatest film ever made and you're not arguing that it is, but it is a movie that holds a very special place in your heart. And I think that when, when you and I sit down to kind of like, critically, evaluate movies that mean a lot to either of us, you know, it kind of takes on a different, a different tone. Because at the end of the day, like does it really matter what the flaws of this movie are? It's not going to change your score. And it's Going to take away from what the movie means to you. Yeah, I mean there's still a world where you give ET attend and that's just unacceptable e. The poor taste of movies.

6:58 But hey, go for it man. So I'm coming into this episode having seen this movie. I think one other time on Brad's recommendation. I think I watched this in college or maybe really early on in our grad school experience Brad because I'd always heard you kind of hype it up and it happened to be on Netflix or and I said, yeah, I'll give it a whirl so it's been a number of years since I've re-watched this I am the Brad G of this equation. Today I'm kind of going back into this movie, not remembering much about it and I will say Brad that in true Brad G fashion. I took 0 notes on this movie because yeah, there we go, I knew that a like if I took a bunch of notes if I had these really minut nitpicky things like it would just make this episode poor because none of that's going to Act what you think of the movie.

7:48 And I think webisodes like this, it's more important to just kind of give our general impressions of the movie. And so like this is going to be I think a really loosey-goosey kind of episode for us today. Brad Bob, I love that you've spent the past five minutes. Basically, trying to soften the blow that you don't think this is a good movie. I did not say that. Nah, let's see. You feels like you're having in Hong quite a bit, Bob. I think that interestingly for me. I honestly, He was I was kind of going on a IMDb spree of like, rating movies that I know. Well enough I can rate without like watching them again recently. You know what I mean? And I got to Second and lines and I was like, you know, I'll be fair.

8:30 I'll give it like a nine. I know that I love it more than other people. I'll probably watch it again. Someday and realize like. Yeah, it's probably like an eight to eight and a half movie that I give it a 9 bro. I'll tell you what man? Sitting down for this episode. I I was genuinely blown away like I haven't watched this movie since we started the podcast. So I do feel like I'm bringing a fresher set of eyes. You know, with all the Cinematic knowledge I've gained over the last almost three years now. Holy cow. And I think, I think this movie holds up Bob. All right, well, let's not delay, it any longer. I think it's time for us to get into Brad. Explains the part of the podcast, where Brad breaks down the movie. He has just seen often for the Is time according to Brad. This was at least his twenty first time seeing the movie. So this should be no issue for you. Brad, we're putting 60 seconds on the clock. Can you explain the plot of Secondhand Lions Secondhand? Lions is about a young boy named Walter who is dropped off at his great uncle's house in Texas for the summer, he gets to hang out with them.

9:36 He is Young and shy and going through all the voice squeaks you can imagine. And it's A about him learning to become a man by hanging out with his great uncle's who supposedly are worth millions and millions of dollars throughout the film. He is offered different explanations as to how they came by their money. He's not even totally certain that they have all that money. But they're wealthy enough to buy a few things from traveling salesman and the movie hinges on this idea of what are the stories you believe about the world and the stories that he learns from his uncle's helped shape him into the kind of person. He was, It's to be, boom. That was 45 seconds.

10:16 Nicely done, dude, nailed it man. So Brad. I think as we as we get into this movie, I'm going to be comparing it to probably a number of other movies. As you know, I tend to do here. But I think the very first thing I want to compare it to is based off what you said in, Brad explains that in a lot of ways. This is a movie that becomes about like Stories, We Tell and stories we choose to believe about each other. And I think in that way, that was probably the most touching Chewing theme of the movie for me and it reminded me a lot of the conversation that we had around Life of Pi which was that you know, at the end of the day there are two ways of looking at the world around us like either there's a God or there's not and no no amount of arguments I think are going to persuade someone Beyond like which story do you prefer when you look at the world around you? And I kind of really liked that this movie tipped into that direction.

11:07 That like a major part of growing up is deciding what you believe about the world. And sticking to that and making your principles consistent with that. I thought that was a really beautiful touch here. Yeah. And actually that was what I the element of the movie that you're talking about, is it really culminates when Walter who has been slowly learning the life of his uncle's the story of his uncle's life through his one. Uncle Garth. There's a point where Hub is telling Walter that it doesn't matter what a man believes as long as he believes in it and believes in it.

11:48 Wholeheartedly like it doesn't matter if it's true or not. I remember for a long time. And when I was younger thinking that that was like the the unfortunate part of this movie, you know, like I don't know, I was just young and I craved this sense of certainty and that you have to know something to be true in order to believe in it. But I think that there's an element in Me As I Grew Older that I've actually We come to appreciate that as one of the most important parts of the movie, that that's almost the idea of what faith is for me. That there's a small element of any human being that can't know for certain that what they believe is ultimately true. And that is the fact that makes it so important that they believed in it. Anyways.

12:32 Hmm, the long speech I give the young man sounds like you need to hear a piece of it. Peace. Sometimes the things that may or may not be true of the things that a man needs to believe in the most. The people are basically good and honor, courage and virtue in everything, the power and money money and power me. Nothing. Good always triumphs over evil. Don't you remember this? Love.

13:17 True. Love those guys remember that boy. I don't know. Does that make sense? Yeah and I feel like Brad this this episode just feels so inverted from what we normally do because we're diving real deep on this immediately. But I will say as we kind of pull back, that was the element of the movie that I have appreciated the most, but it was also kind of in some ways, the, the element that I felt was most underserved and I wish they had gone, just a little further with it, a little bit deeper with it. And even at the end of the film, when they Flash Forward to Walter, as a very grown adult EB, kind of get a little glimpse of it with the very last lines of the movie, but I just wish there had been a little bit more of a call back to that idea of you know, sticking to your guns essentially. And like I said, living your life consistent with what you believe.

14:09 So it was a really nice touch but I think it's probably the first area where I would say, I wish the movie had gone just a little bit further. Does that make sense? Yeah, it kind of does. I mean for me, I think the whole movie kind of hinges around that and you see it played Out in the different facets of the movie. I think you see that question answered by all the different characters, you see it answered by his mom, how the story that she chooses to believe about her life and the type of life that that has led her to live. You see it in her boyfriend that she brings around near the end of the movie you see it? When Hub is fighting the young teenage boys at the at the gas station and the speech that he gives them like you see all the characters declare Saying this is who I am based on the things that I say and the actions that I take, and Walter sits back the entire movie and watch has all these different people engage in all these different truths.

15:09 And at the end of it, he gets his moment. His heroic moment to choose what he believes in. And that like, so, for me, I think that the whole movie revolves around that, if anything, the, the ending of the movie does, I'm with You a little bit at the ending. It kind of changes that a little bit with this whole idea of like yep they just they really lived right, right. And instead of giving you a like they knew who they were. Yes. Yep, I don't know, totally agree. So let's talk about the performances. I think we've run on a little long here about about like deep themes of the movie, people want to know who's in this movie and the three stars of this film are Haley, Joel Osment, Robert Duvall.

15:53 And Michael Caine and man. Oh man are all three of them like unreasonably. Good in this movie. This is this is this is a children's movie that was not made for a lot of money, and if I'm being frank it doesn't like it's not a very good-looking movie, like it kind of looks like a TV movie and I think some elements of it feel like they kind of cheaped out on it, but then it's almost like they knew, all right? Well, if we nail the three leads, it's still going to be a good movie. Remember, no matter what else we do. And it's kind of like when you put Michael Caine up against a bunch of Muppets and in A Christmas Carol, And it becomes like maybe the best version of A Christmas Carol ever because it's my cocaine Brad. I mean especially the the veterans here, Duvall, and Michael.

16:37 Caine are just uniformly, excellent, Robert Duvall. This might be one of my favorite performances of all time. Like when I talk about a performer being sincere, this is the performance I'm talking about it's a perfect Duval performance. To and and like he is one of our great. I don't want to say unsung actors because people, it's like people who know. No, you know, you see some of the more showy performers from that era, a your Pacino's or your, You Know, Jack Nicholson's, your even your Deniro's to some point. And and I think guys like Hackman and Duval kind of fly under the radar because they are they've always been just a little more understated in the performances that they choose and Duval especially but man. Oh man.

17:27 I mean Great in everything. Like I was just sharing the news with somebody today that Paramount's going to re-release, The Godfather, some time here in February and like in theaters. And I've just started thinking about how great he is as Tom Hagen and how everyone's talking about Pacino and, you know, James Caan and Marlon Brando and it's like, yeah. But have you watched how good Robert Duvall? His that movie bro you literally took the words out of my mouth. I was about to say like think about Robert Duvall in The Godfather. Nobody talks about that performance. But it's it's probably up there is a top two or three performances in that movie. So like him in this movie though, I I think what I love about it is that he hand and I could probably say it's about Kane as well. Both of them.

18:15 I feel like could have just turned in for a paycheck but I honestly feel like they treated this movie like a lot of younger stars do when they get their indie project green. Hmm. They took this. So seriously this idea of being a parental figure to a young boy who needs guidance. They like they bought in and you can tell in their performance the way they treat Haley Joel Osment. Like he is their equal every single time. He's on screen with them and they get it. They recognize his role in the movie and they just give such a sincere performance when he has that kid by the throat, and he's giving them the speech of who.

18:57 He is. Hey, who do you think you are, huh, just dumb kid, huh? Don't kill me. McCain fought in two world wars and countless smaller ones on three continents. I lived thousands of men into battle with everything with horses and swords to artillery and tanks. I've seen the headwaters of the Nile and tribes and Native no white man has ever seen before I've won or lost. That doesn't fortunes kill many men. And loved only one woman with a passion of flee like you but never begin to understand that's who I am. Just literal chills.

19:40 Every single time I even think about it let alone watch it. All right, so let's talk about Michael Caine a little bit, then on the flip side and I don't know how to express that. I think Michael Caine is great in this movie and also that I think if they were going to replace one of the two, Michael Caine would be the one to go for me. I don't know if that makes sense, but it's really risky to put Michael Caine in a movie like this where he's playing an American with a Southern accent. And having the Michael, Caine Cockney voice. Because he goes through, at least five different Southern dialects in this movie. Yeah. Like he's from Tennessee, he's in the Panhandle, he's in like, you know, Georgia and then he's in Texas and you're like, okay like what go with one buddy and you know, he's trying really hard and God bless him for that and I think his just his sheer acting ability.

20:31 Makes up for a lot of it. But I do kind of Wonder like, alright, I wonder what other Actors probably would have been available for this and if they're at least 90% as good as Michael Caine, like what does it do to the chemistry of this movie? You know what I mean? Yeah, honestly I think for me it's so hard to imagine anyone else in that role mostly because of the chemistry that he and Duvall have together. Like I don't think there's a world in which I couldn't imagine those two as bickering. Old brothers who are just Bachelors who Who are living out the rest of their life on a little Old Farm in Texas.

21:12 And so, his performance for me, really hinges on the fact that he has such good chemistry with Duvall and with Osment, that that feels almost Irreplaceable. All right. So there's Michael Caine. We've done Robert Duvall. Let's do Haley Joel Osment. If we're comparing it to like the sixth sense, I think this performance is like 85% as good as that performance, which is saying a lot, right? Like that's the best child performance I've ever seen, but I think it comes down to a couple things for me that are just like slight detractions. And first of all I just don't think that the director of this film is a very competent director and I think that'll come up in the second half.

21:54 We'll get into some of the technical stuff and also like I just don't think he's a great director of actors and so I think like when it comes time for Haley, Joel Osment to do some things that are a little bit out of his wheelhouse like that. Very First scene where they drop him off. And he's, you know, it's played for Laughs of, like the pig coming up, and smelling him and him, not knowing what to do. Like, it's a little bit of physical comedy, and that's not something we've really seen from Haley. Joel Osment, that scene played a little awkwardly for me, like, it worked pretty well, but I think that like, if you put that in the hands of like a Spielberg, it's obviously going to be 10 times better, right? Yeah, I think in general, my main issue with McKinley's is a director is that he just doesn't always know what to do with the camera. No.

22:35 Not at all. Like there's so many moments where I'm like, he could have been served by just having one camera shot that slowly like panned around the scene, rather than all of the different cutaways that he uses. And and so if there's any like specific thing that I struggle with, it's that and even that scene that you're talking about when they drop him off, there could have been literally one, beautiful shot. Like from the house. Where you see the two uncles. You see Haley, Joel Osment, you see his mom. Going away. And then the camera should slowly swoop from up down behind Haley, Joel Osment, almost looking up at the house with his uncle's walking away from him and like, see the house from from Walters point of view as this big large imposing almost like Haunted Mansion. Yeah.

23:25 And it would have been one shot, right. Instead, you literally had about six different shots of the wheels on the car as it drove away and then Walters face. S and then the uncle's turning to leaving and then back to Walter and then back to the shot of like the house and the uncles and Walter. I'm like, you guys just don't one shot. Do demand amazing before we do anything else. I am, I'm grinning from ear to ear right now. I'm so proud of you Brad. She like you you're out here like directing a movie in your mind. That's right. Like saying this is, this shot would have worked better if you'd done it this way. And yep, let's be honest here. Like, when we started this podcast, three years ago, I don't know. If, if you at that time, would have paid as much attention to the way of movie was shot and edited, you know? And now you're like, hey I've seen enough, you know, in your Ritu, movies, that I know that this can be done in one shot like, yep.

24:20 So I agree with you and I think that I mentioned this before, but the look of this movie. It looks its drab it. Well it's not. It's not only that it's dry. Yeah, I mean like it's drab and it also just it looks like a TV movie like the way that each shot. It is framed. It's like slightly too close. So that they're like almost like they're planning on it being, you know, chop down on the sides. It's called pan and scan. For when they used to show movies on the old four by three TVs, it was almost like they intended to make this for television. And I think the director here is, his name is mac and Ali's. You said Tim McCann, Lima kenley's. I think that he tips into some things that are like very emblematic of TV, movies of the time of like, Movies.

25:06 The very, very end of this movie, you have that line of like, yeah, they really lived and they freeze frame it on the actors like cheesy smiling face and then he's like, that's not good enough. We have to remind you who were talking about. And so he cuts back to another shot of Michael dead. Michael Caine and then another shot of dead, Robert Duvall, and then a final shot of them walking into the house. And this time around, it's all sepia-toned, like they're in the beginning of The Wizard of Oz. And I'm like, Buddy, like we know who you're talking about, it's a good ending, he you wrote a pretty good script here like get out of your own way and I think like this is a conversation. We had about Shyamalan, especially of Shyamalan, the writer versus the director and sometimes it's like Shyamalan the director.

25:52 Doesn't trust the writer enough or vice versa? I feel like if, if McCann Lee's had just given the script off to whatever director was available at the time, we probably would have gotten a movie that at least visually Looked a lot better and was a most probably edited together better as well because you're like bread, I have nothing bad to say. Like there's a couple cheesy moments in this movie. I think there's a couple like really we're going to do that now. But yeah, for the most part, this is a really tightly constructed script and I think it's well written but the directing is just really subpar, you know, who he could have handed it off to who's that his buddy? Brad Bird. Who directed the film that Tim McKinley's also wrote Iron Giant. Yeah.

26:35 Yeah. The Iron Giant. He sure could have. Yeah, yeah, I'm with you, dude. There are a few moments in this movie that come across as cheesy. They work for me because I just think this movie is freaking hilarious. But I, like, I can understand the, there's a few times where it's, it's super cheese. I got it. The biggest thing for me, though, with the humor in this movie, is that it's just so easily believed in like, dude, the moment One of the best jokes of the movie, doesn't even have a single line attached to it. They're out there. Digging up their garden and hub and Garth are eaten.

27:15 Our dipping and hub, just reaches over and offer, some dip to Walter that, he just starts hacking up a lung and you just see, Robert Duvall laughing and and Garth is yelling at him and he's clapping him on the back. It's just the humor throughout this movie. She it's just emblematic of like good old people, humor. All right before I didn't know go ahead. I was at the other. The other line for me that genuinely is just the funniest stuff in the world. Is that moment? And this is a, this is a moment where I think it's actually well-directed. You have this camera shot from the top of the stairs and you see Walter with like an old-timey, candle Peak around from the corner.

28:05 And then he pulls back and the camera shot changes. And you see Walter standing in front of Duvall and Kane. They just go on this speech about well, we're getting pretty old now. His brother goes yet, we're kicking off to die any moment now. So we've, we die in the middle of the night. You're on your own. The look of Terror. Yeah, his face as he goes up the stairs. It's Priceless really good. Just man the humor in this movie just gets me every single time. All right, Brad, I think we're in a good place to press. Pause here. There's a couple more performances. I do want to talk about particularly Kyra Sedgwick and I also want to compare this to a couple other movies because I think you might like where I'm going with my comparisons here, but we'll save that for after the break, let's drink this Angels. Envy, what do you say?

28:56 Let's get to it. Alright, today, we are trying one of the more popular brands in American whiskey. This is Angel's Envy bourbon. Angels Envy is, is pretty famous around these parts Brad, because it was really the first bourbon that unlike a big scale that was finishing, their stuff in Old Port casks. They took the principles of what you normally see in the scotch world and started applying it to Bourbon. This is the brainchild of pretty legendary Master distiller, Lincoln Henderson and his son Wes. We've heard about Lincoln Henderson on the show before he was Peggy. No Stevens boss for a long time at Brown Forman.

29:39 He's pretty much responsible for Woodford Reserve. He's also responsible for releasing Gentleman Jack. So like the guy's a Legend and his son came up to him, one day, and said, he wanted to work together and they kind of hit on this idea of finishing bourbon. Now, it seems very I don't know, quaint to look at the last five, six, seven years of the bourbon world and all of the crazy finishes were getting now. And think that you know, not that Ago, 10, 11 years ago when angels and be launched, they were really the only name in the game doing this. So I mean, they have a really special place in the heart of a lot of bourbon drinkers, but Brad, I'm interested to see if their Flagship product really still holds up with some of these great finishes we've tried before. Yeah, this is a bottle that I got from a good friend of mine for my birthday.

30:24 Shout-out to producer Eric from season one. If anybody remembers and for me I've tried it a few times and it's a wonderful gift because It's really hard to get it flies off the shelves, any time it hits them. It's not my favorite whiskey. I'll just put it that way. Yeah Brad I don't know if I've ever tried just the standard Angels Envy, they have some other finishes. Now they do a barrel proof like a lot of their higher end stuff is very, very good. But what we're dealing with today is just your standard Angels, Envy. It clocks in at eighty six point, six proof or forty three point three percent alcohol by volume. This is sourced whiskey. That this is then finished in these port casks. I'm excited to dive in here.

31:04 Let's get to it, man. What do you picking up on the nose? You know, Bob it has, it has a pleasant knows it's got a little bit of a caramely tinge to it. There's a, there's a tiny bit of gray, penis to it that you'd expect from a port finish. And I get a hint of oakiness on the back end of it. It's not incredibly complex, but it's a nice pleasant knows. I think I'll give it a 7. I'll give it a 7 out of 10. So this is sourced whiskey. E and it comes from the name of the company that it comes from is Kentucky bourbon distillers, which is like a code name. For, will it Distillery and I think that, you know, assuming they're using the same juice in, Will It products that they're using in this? This this has a lot of the willingness to it. Like it has a lot of that on.

31:49 Come on, Bob just saying oh, you ready for it? It's got some fuck actually, like in this in this regard because it's so watered down. I think like it just comes across a little more Dusty like there, is that kind of like Sawdust As to this but it kind of just smells like a standard bourbon. Like if I took my Noah's Mill and I just watered it down a little bit. I don't know that I'm really getting any port influence here. So I like it but it's just I'm not picking up anything like extravagant here. So I'm gonna give it a seven and a half on the nose. Yeah. Bob honestly it kind of comes across a little bit leathery are you all right over there man? No, good finish finish your thoughts. I'll help you.

32:35 I'll be quiet. I'll just restart that thought no, no, just go on it. This is all staying in there. There's a, there's a bit of mustiness to it there. I get like a tiny bit of like, I don't know. Almost like a strawberry jam note. There's some vanilla I guess. I don't know. Bob I'm struggle. They can you help me out? No, no I can't. So I'll say this. It's almost like it hits the middle of your palate, and then it's like, nope. And he decides to do something very different. So like, you know, I took a sip and on the front of my pal and I'm like, all right, it's not very sweet but it's got like a little bit of.

33:17 I'm getting a little bit of an alcohol. Tingle, I think this might go in the direction of a Rowan's Creek or a Noah's Mill, which I both really like. And then I went to swallow it and it was like there is no sweetness. There is no like dustiness. It is. It's just like, hey, would you like some Robitussin? And then it's like, and it's not even like, I mean, it really tastes like NyQuil or Robitussin like it. Has that kind of like, fake grape flavor to it but it's cough syrup for me and like, I don't, I don't like this Brad. Yeah, yeah. I think it's a 5 for me on the palate. It's not, it's not horrific it like it's still a decent whiskey. But they're like you said the the decent Ness kind of Falls Away really quickly on the finish for me. The Finish.

34:10 Like you said it feels like I just took a sip of cough syrup. Yeah and that's the flavor that's sitting on my palate so for me it's a 5 out of 10 on the palate but a 3 out of 10 on the Finish. Yeah I'm going to give it a I'll give it a 5 on the palate, just being generous because it's a birthday gift for you and I'll give it a four and a half on the Finish. Like the actual, the the feeling in your chest and kind of like going down, you know, the gullet is not that bad but it's that lasting flavor of cough syrup. That's just not doing it for me when it comes to balance, I don't know that I can score this very high on balance either because the nose really promised a very different experience than what was delivered here actually.

34:55 I think this drinks a lot spicier than the 86 proof that it is. I would have thought this was about, you know, 90 85 to 100 Proof. So I don't know if that's good or bad, but I expect it to be a little bit more well-rounded. Maybe taste a little bit more mature than it. I mean, it doesn't taste young, but it also doesn't taste like that kind of dustiness that you get from from some of Will. It's tough. I guess. I'll give it a 6 on the balance. Brad. Yeah. I was going to say, for me, on the balance. It's a decently balanced whiskey. You definitely get those Jam notes throughout the entire experience, which is really nice. I'll give it a sure. 6. I'll give it a 6 on balance. All right. Brad. If you wanted to pick up a bottle of this in the state of Ohio, how much would it set you back?

35:39 That would be $49.99. Okay, so it's right now looking at it, sold out, not available, not available in stock, sold out. Sold out right now. Located here. It's I mean it's going to come by. Yeah, so I mean we kind of have to evaluate this the way we would a lot of Buffalo Trace products. This costs As much in the state of Ohio as a bottle of Weller antique and I'm not directly comparing the two because that's not that's a no-brainer. But in the same way it's like, okay it cost you $50 and you probably have to wait a few weeks until somebody gets a shipment of it and you probably have to drive to a liquor store that you didn't initially intend to go to.

36:19 So it's like $50 plus extra Hoops. I don't think $50 is necessarily like an outrageous price for this because it's kind of in that like basil Hayden's vein of a Proof whiskey, that is positioning itself as being higher end, I wouldn't spend $50 on this. I certainly wouldn't like have to wait on pins and needles for it to come in. I'm just going to give it again. I'll give it a four and a half on value bread. Yeah, I'll give it a flat five. It's not a terrible value. I don't want to say it's the worst finished whiskey we've ever had, but it's definitely far in a way, not the best, but $50 is not breaking the bank. It's not Wildly expensive for a finished whiskey. So yeah, I'll stick in the middle and give it a 5. I'm coming out to a 27.5 out of 50. Brad.

37:10 This is a this is not not cracking that upper echelon for me. Where are you at 26:26? All right, so we're two fifty three and a half out of 100 or a twenty six point seven. Five out of 50. I am not going to recommend buying and I'm also not going to recommend trying. I mean if somebody has a bottle like great but I don't think You need to buy this at the bar. Yeah. Yeah, this does feel man. Bob, we're getting snooty. I just realized that there's like I mean there's so many Cheap whiskey like wild turkey Rare Breed cost less than this. Yeah, no. I guess what I'm saying, is it? I don't know how to say this nicely, if somebody is SuperDuper crazy pumped about angels Envy. It probably means that they're not paying close attention to the Ski World right now, which is okay like, like nobody has to drink what you want to drink.

38:07 I don't give a rip if you like inches, then feed that awesome. But if somebody offers it to you, in the really excited about it, just smile and thank them and go, man, thank you so much for sharing your whiskey with me. Thank you so much for sharing your Secondhand Lions with me. I totally get it. All right, bro, we're about to throw, just I've had it down and I just messing with you. Now, I'm with you man. Like if this is somebody's favorite whiskey, like there's a reason for it and you're right. Brad, it probably is somebody. That's kind of just getting started out in the world of Whiskey's, and they're branching out into into finished Whiskey's, that's fantastic, but I do think if you dig a Little Deeper, there's a lot better out there and you can probably get get it at a similar price, if not a little cheaper, but that's how we feel about it.

38:57 Honestly, if you feel differently, let us know. Head over to our Instagram Pages. Tell Us how wrong we are. Until we hear from you, though, we need to get back into talking about one of the greatest movies ever, created by Humanity, second hand line. Bob, what do you say? Let's get to it. All right, that was Angel's Envia, whiskey, that we are decidedly, not impressed with no bueno, not so much. But Brad, it's Redeemed by this movie which I like a lot. I need you to know that I actually enjoyed myself watching In this movie, I'm really glad to hear that Bob. And I see though into ice, I want you to go into extreme detail as to why you like this movie.

39:39 I will, before my final score, but before I get there, I preface I use that as a preface to talk about Kyra Sedgwick who is just hammin it up, man. It in a way that's like my God, why did no one restrain her from doing this? Like, she's not good. Brad. She's not good in this movie. And, and I need to know your thoughts on her. Her in this movie. I think that she works better as a plot device than the actual performance. That was good, huh? Like I'm with you, dude, if there is a problem with this movie in general it's that it goes way over the top on a lot of different fronts, right? It's like way cheesy at points, its way emotional and heartfelt at points and it's way over the top with her performance of I've just an uncaring mother.

40:34 I think it leads to some incredibly important moments of the movie though and so I feel like I'm able to forgive some of her performance for the fact that it leads to so many development points for Walter like that first time that he just he admits out loud to his uncle's. Like yeah like my mom lied to me. Like she always does. And then there's just something beautiful about that moment when Duvall just says you know well shoot kid were sorry you have a lousy damn mother right? Like there's something so honoring about that moment that for me it's that it's moments like that that make me go, you know what, like we need a ridiculous over-the-top.

41:22 Just terrible mother in order to fit that emotional moment. Yeah, I agree. I do I still think That the character could have been played in a way that came across a little more believable, by a different actress, but I'm with you. Like I don't I don't have a problem with the character being as like fake and over-the-top as she is. I think part of its just that like Kyra, Sedgwick is a really good TV actress, you know, she had that showed the closer for a long time, which is good. It's fine. It's a good show but like, you know what I mean, like, there's just there's a, there's a level of difference there and I do I I was going to say, I think one of the reasons this comes across The TV movie is because a lot pretty much all of the actors and actresses outside of Cain, Duvall, and Osment are made for TV, kind of actors.

42:12 And I, I say that with all the love in the world, I'm going to give a quick shout-out. So there's a online, Dungeons & Dragons, podcast called critical role. And one of the persons who plays in that is guy named Travis Willingham. Him. Well, early in his career, he tried some on screen acting and he landed a role as one of the four thugs in Secondhand Lions. And I've now watch hundreds of hours of this dude play in D&D and he's one of my favorite characters on the show and I was literally scrolling through the cast for this movie and saw Travis willingham's name come up and I was like what?

42:55 I don't think my mind had ever been as blown and like I said, got nothing but For the guy. But I think he would even admit, he's not necessarily a movie actor. Yeah. And a lot of the people in this film who don't have a big name that you know, not exactly built for the the big screen. I especially think about the funny thing for me is I don't think of Kyra Sedgwick performances over the top partially just because of her boyfriend Stan played by a guy named Nikki cat. Yes, dude. Who is who? Evie actor, he was on a show. I watched back in the early 2000s called Boston Public. He was my, are you guys hearing person on that show? So he came up and I was like, I'm Nikki cat, of course. Yeah.

43:39 And he is wildly over the top, he is hitting a twelve-year-old, it's it's intense. So, I don't know the Ridiculousness of his performance, almost like just like Doles, the craziness of Kyra Sedgwick. So with all that said though, I kind of want to segue into final scores here. And there's two movies that I still feel like. I feel like I want to compare this one to the first one is a movie that we're going to be watching in the next. I assume few weeks here. It's called Elizabethtown. It's a movie by Cameron Crowe. The guy that did Almost Famous. And in a lot of ways, it has like the opposite problem of this movie where I feel like this movie has a really solid script and really poor Direction. Elizabethtown is a very competently made movie. Where the script is just trying to do way too many things at once and if you tighten that up a little bit, I feel like there's a great movie in it and I kind of feel the same way here.

44:35 Like Secondhand Lions has a legitimately great coming-of-age film inside of it and I feel like the Actors and The Script are working as hard as they possibly can, to overcome the deficiencies of, like, the camerawork the editing and the direction. And still, I look at this movie, Brad. And I'm like, yeah but I'm just I'm really Charmed by it and it reminds me of a movie I saw when I was 10 years old called My Dog Skip got and if you've ever seen that movie, it is so eerily similar to this movie in that. It's, you know, it's about a boy coming of age in the 1950s, who is awkward and, you know, he's picked on.

45:16 And in that movie, it's the fact that he gets this dis childhood dog that goes with him through his whole coming-of-age process. Yeah, I've seen that movie. Yeah. And and you know, It's book ended with him as a grown-up, like, finding out that is, you know, his dog died. And that's like, Dude, oh my gosh, I have never cried harder at a movie, then I cry at My Dog Skip but, but that movie too is like, it's not the best directed movie. It kind of looks like a TV movie. It's really corny, it's really cheesy. There's a lot of things in the script that are like that would never happen in real life and it's the same as this and yet, like there's a reason I didn't put my dog Skip on my list for this time around because I'm like Like I am not ready to go back and watch that movie and like doing it for not being great because to ten-year-old me like that movie was emotionally devastating and also like mental.

46:08 It meant a lot to me. And so that's why it's hard to like objectively rate, movies, like this, Brad I think objectively speaking. This is like a six and a half to a 7 like quality wise in terms of the direction and think and what you see on the screen in terms of what it could be, this could be A 9 out of 10 and and I enjoyed it a whole heck of a lot. So I think I'll give it a seven and a half. Brad, I'm going to split the difference here but that's a seven and a half that I think comes with a huge caveat. It's not like, you know, like I'm crapping on this movie, it's just that I recognize both the limitations of it and also I recognize how this can be your favorite movie. So I hope that scores acceptable to you. Yeah, no, I dude, I get it.

46:54 I've come to terms with. The fact that this is objectively, not a great movie. I totally understand that, I think what I hope people hear from me in reviewing like I said, probably a top three movie for me. I hope that they hear and understand that if you're willing to accept the flaws for what they are. If you're willing to believe in the world that McKinley's is trying to create, I think you'll find genuinely three phenomenal performances from the leads. You'll find a story that's worth believing in and you'll find an opportunity to have a lot more feels than you thought you would feel.

47:39 I think it's really summed up. I don't remember exactly. I think this might have been the Detroit newspaper that the review is written, but I really think the best way to sum up. This movie is from this review, I read and it said this most family films, aimed too low. So perhaps there should be a hearty Applause for one that tries to do too much good and its small space of time. And like, I read that and I was like yes, that person understands this movie like I'm with you. Dude. Feels like it was made for TV feels like if they had a good director and a good cinematographer at the helm that this movie could have been an all-time great.

48:19 But as it is, if you're willing to sit with some of the flaws in this film and and set them to the side and pay attention to the story, pay attention to the small moments like when when Walter is sitting with them at the gas station and he's thinking about running away and he has that little moment of saying like, I've been in the group homes before. I'm not going back. Like, it's moments, like that, that just get me every single time I come back to this film, The, the laughs are just out of this world. There's so much, I love about this movie. I'm going to give it a 10 out of 10 with the caveat of like I got it, dude. If I hadn't watched this movie growing up, I'd probably watch it and give it like a seven and a half. Maybe an eight, but it's a 10.

49:08 210 for me. All right, so we're coming out to an eight point seven five out of ten. We would love to know what you think. Have you seen Secondhand Lions? If so does it have a special place in your heart? Like it does with Brad? You can find us to tell us all about it on Facebook, Twitter or Instagram at film whiskey, or you can join the conversation with us directly jump onto our Discord. We have daily conversation with our fans over there. I just said the word fans. That sounds weird. We're just normal people but we have People who like to talk to us about movies and Whiskey on our Discord, you can find the link to it at the end of every single set of our show notes Brad I have the rest of my movies already ready to go in this wheel randomizer here I'm going to spin the wheel but as always I need you to make some wheel spinning sounds for me.

49:58 I'm just going to sing the the song from from Secondhand Lions dudn't and Danton didn't do Nothin, Sean pom, pom, pom pom. Palm sham pom, pom, pom, pom pom. And I'm excited for this one, another movie Brad. If I'm being frank, that is like, not a 10 out of 10, but hits me in the warm fuzzies. The way that this movie does, it is Ben's right in the goat, just Square in the nards, all right? It is, it's Ben Stiller's 2013 film, The Secret Life of Walter Mitty. I'm, I'm really excited for that one, man. I'm smiling already. I can't. Have you seen it before?

50:40 I think, I watched it once maybe at your house. Hmm, interesting. I feel like the time when you guys are out of town, but Haley and I were staying at your place. All right, now, because we're staying down. There are no, I figured it out. It's when we were down visiting and we were staying with y'all for a few days. Checking out the Seminary. You guys were both out and we watched Inception one day and I think we watch The Secret Life of Walter. Or maybe the other day. Well, you're going to watch it again. I led you to watching Secondhand Lions and you led me to watch and Secret Life of Walter Mitty. All right, man, we're going to be back next Monday with that one, but until then I'm Bob book, I'm Brad G and we'll see you next time.