Rogue One: A Star Wars Story / Jim Beam Devil's Cut Bourbon Whiskey

0:00 In 2016, director Gareth Edwards and star Felicity Jones gave the world an emotional and expansive back story to a single line from a much more famous film. In 2024, we drink a whiskey fitting of Darth Vader. The film is Rogue One, a Star Wars story? The whiskey is Jim Beam Devil's Cut. And we'll review them both. This is the. Film and Whiskey Podcast Welcome to the Film and Whiskey podcast, where each week we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey.

0:53 I'm Bob Book. I'm. Brad Chi and we have a video component going on tonight. Brad, as we chat with each other and I subtly give you the finger for making fun of the way I talk. It's good to see you man. It's been a couple weeks since we've recorded. We got a little bit ahead because we both had work stuff going on. I literally just got back from a work trip today. So your boy is tired and a little bit slap happy. So we'll see where this episode goes, man. Dude, I celebrated with a buddy of mine last night. He is about to break ground on a house that they're building in Delaware. And we drank some Lafroig 10 cask strength straight from the motherland.

1:38 And then we drank some Lagavalin 16. And then we drank some barrel rye cask string. And I woke up at 4:00 AM and have not gone back to sleep. I should have called you, man. I was. I was in North Carolina for work. I rolled over because I couldn't sleep at 4:00 in the morning. And I said, well, I guess I'll just start driving home. And I could have just been talking to you. We could have recorded this episode while I was on the road, man. We sure could have. I don't know if our illustrious guest was up at 4:00 in the morning today, though. Bob no. And Brad, it's been a while since A we've had a guest on the show, but B since we've talked with our good friend Zach Johnston, who has been patiently waiting to say hello.

2:19 Zach, how are you today, man? I'm doing well because I slept in till about seven. OK, cool. Well, it's been nice catching up, Zach. We'll talk to you in a couple weeks. Yeah, so whiskey movies, good times. Normally I introduce Zach as the spirits writer and editor for Up Rocks, but that is not his title anymore. Zach, I don't want to, I don't want to step all over your announcement, but let's catch Film and Whiskey Nation up a little bit. What's going on in your life, man? So I transitioned into the industrial side of the spirits world after eight years in media and about, you know, 3-4 years before that in high end bartending, I am now officially working for a distillery, Blackwood Distilling Company, which is at the moment based in Versailles, KY. They do Blackwood toasted Rye and toasted bourbon. They brought me on to help expand the brands and help expand into the European and U.S. market further because for the last few years we've been Kentucky only and they're gearing up for a big $200 million distillery just South of Lexington.

3:28 And they, you know, it's time to expand and grow into that sort of size of company and distillery in the spirits of the sphere. So I was one of the first two people hired on from the outside. And we've spent the last three months, you know, getting things set up in, in the EU, getting things set up in Florida, Texas, Wyoming and Kentucky, expanding Kentucky, you know, fixing little things here and there, you know, expanding our social media presence, having a really good time, kind of working with fun people, traveling in Florida way more than I thought I'd ever in my life, which is fun. And you know, I have time to watch movies like Rogue One again, which is nice.

4:15 Yeah, you do. Perfect segue. Man. Well, Zach, it's so good to have you back and you've been very kind in sending us a bottle of the batch three of the toasted bourbon from Blackwood. So we'll be kind of sipping that all day as we talk. Brad, we can give some some tasting notes as we go, but I think it's time we dive into talking about the movie itself. And in order to do that, we have to get into our first segment of the day, which we call, Brad explains. Brad's gonna give us the movie plots with only 60 seconds ticking on the clock, so let's go ahead and hear your take with this little segment that we call Brad explains. Brad Explains is the part of the podcast where Brad breaks down the plot of the movie that he has just seen, often for the first time. Brad we are on week two in a row of Star Wars and I am over this already but because we I am over it. We have not talked at all about like prep for this episode. We are coming in extra blind today when it comes to each other's preferences here yes.

5:17 Have you seen this movie before? I. Have Yeah, I saw this in theaters and I believe I watched it one more time with some friends. So this is viewing #3. I'm on viewing #2 I saw this in the theater and absolutely loved it. I bought it on Blu-ray. It has been sitting on my shelf for what, like seven years now and I have not returned to it at all. So I, I am actually less informed than you are on this movie, Brad. And because of your deep and encyclopedic knowledge of the Star Wars universe, you should be able to give us a great breakdown of the film. Now, folks, I do want to say we are getting into spoiler territory from the get go here.

5:57 And this is a movie that, I mean, you kind of know the contours of it if you've seen A New Hope, but you don't know the details. And I, I do not want this movie to get spoiled for you. If you have any intention of watching Rogue One, I would say hit pause here. Go watch the movie and then rejoin us because Brad is about to drop some bombs, literally and figuratively in describing this film. Brad. I just want everybody to know that there was no one harmed in the dropping of bombs for this episode. Brad 60 seconds on the clock and go. Rogue One, A Star Wars Story is a film about the construction of the Death Star in the Star Wars universe.

6:40 It follows a group of ragtag heroes that are unlikely to band together, but they do. It's so wild how they they all come together even though they have different goals and objectives. Jen Urso is our main character. She is trying to find her father, Galen Urso, who's a scientist that helped to build the Death Star. She finds out that he actually programmed in a fail safe. You can blow this up if you really want to in the Death Star because he doesn't want it to get built. And man, other things happen. The Death Star kind of blows things up. Jen They, they go to this this beach planet that's really pretty and they get the data up to the Alliance and Darth Vader is just incredible.

7:34 OK, and and the spoiler is that quite literally everyone dies at the end of this movie. It it is a film where the actual fake spoiler that we give sometimes when people are like, oh, what happens at the end? You say everyone dies. Everyone No like like honestly they all. Die. Every single living creature in the universe is wiped out by the. It was a great like on ramp to end game an Infinity War, you know, all right, guys, let's dive into talking about the movie itself. Now. This was the first kind of one off. They called them Star Wars anthology films, which were meant to be separate from the Star Wars saga and and the new trilogy of sequels. And because of that, they wanted to give it some stylistic flourishes that were different from your regular Star Wars movie.

8:23 It doesn't have the sort of Akira Kurosawa wipes and transitions. It also doesn't have an opening crawl. And I remember being in the movie theater and seeing a long time ago in the Galaxy far, far away. And then there's just this musical sting from the orchestra. It's just put it on and it was jarring. And I was immediately like, I am on board for this. This is really, really cool. They also are missing the Wilhelm screen for the first time ever. Really. I thought I heard it a couple times. Very disappointed. Now, do you know that for a fact, or did you just not hear it with your own ears? No, I know it for a fact. It's sorry. It's either this one or The Last Jedi, 'cause they both came out like back-to-back years, but one of them omitted the Wilhelm scream for the first time in Star Wars history, and I was quite disappointed with that.

9:17 They also omitted John Williams. They sure did. And here's the thing about the soundtrack to this movie. It is not good. It's not super memorable. It's a cheap knock off of John Williams. It is 100% a cheap knock off and I can't remember exactly what the famous Star Wars leap is if I don't think it's a full octave, but the they mimic that in the sort of heroic fanfare of this movie's theme. There's that, there's that jump that sort of whatever it is, 1/5 or 1/7, I don't know what it is, but they mimic that exact same thing and it does not land. And I think even people who are not familiar with music theory, you can hear that they're, they're hinting at the things like the Imperial March will, they'll give you 4 notes of the imperial March and then kind of twisted into something different. They're doing variations on themes. And the thing about doing variations on a John Williams theme is that John Williams has already found the optimal way for that to be a theme that you remember for the rest of your life.

10:20 And so you're automatically making music that is less memorable when you do that. And it's the. Scene. Go ahead. It's the scene from Amadeus, but in reverse. Like like Mozart has created the piece and then Salieri writes his worst version of it. Like, that's literally what's going on here. Was this Michael Giacchino who did the music for this one? Michael. Yeah, that's correct. Michael Giacchino. OK, I'll I'll give him a pass because he is the go to young composer now and he's created some of the best music of the 21st century. Also, he he was brought on late to redo the whole school, so he didn't have time really to dive in. So I think that why a lot of there's a lot of illusions to John Williams as opposed to something fresh. On another note, can I dive into something that's crazy about this movie?

11:14 Oh, please. This is probably the best cast of any Star Wars film that we've ever had and may ever have. The cast on this film is insane. Let me just let me just name a few names here. Donnie yen legend, Jiang Wen, legend. Ben Mendelsohn, basically a legend. Matt Mickelson, basically a legend. You know, Alan Taylor, Forest Whitaker legend, obviously, Carrie Fisher, Diego Luna, amazing. Felicity Jones, amazing. Like just that core cast alone of our core characters. Insane that they came together in any film, much less a star.

11:55 I think that's, I mean, I don't, I don't even know how to compare it to another Star Wars film where you have a cast of just absolute knockouts. Every single one of them. Like top of their game actors. Yeah, I don't think you can compare it to any other Star Wars film. I think you're you're probably right. This is the best assembly of people for a movie. And if I could start getting into Brad like some some critique of the film, a film that I loved on 1st watch. I'm a little bit cooler on this movie this time around. And the cast is somewhere that I'm going to have some spicy takes, I think. But I am not so much a fan of the Force Awakens as you folks heard last week.

12:36 But one thing that I really loved about what Abrams and company did with that script is they gave, they did a really great job with close-ups in that movie and giving people their sort of John Wayne in Stagecoach, like push in introduction to like you're a movie star now. John Boyega like sees this moment. You're a movie star. Daisy Ridley, Gareth Edwards doesn't do that. He's he's not concerned with making his actors into stars, but he also doesn't seem to be super concerned with giving them any chance to really like sink their teeth into the material. It's very exposition heavy. And when they're not talking, then there's long pauses of silence. And, and I feel like, if I'm being frank, if you're going to get this sort of murderer's row for a cast, they need something juicy and meaty to really sink their teeth into. And I'd, I'd kind of rather watch this cast in The Force Awakens than I would in this movie, Brad, because I just don't think that I, I think they painted really broad strokes in this movie.

13:37 And I was a little bit let down by how I'm not amateurish, but kind of like remedial. The script was here. Yeah, I mean, I think that the best character development you have in the film is probably Alan Tudyk as K2. SO the robot, because he has that kind of joking relationship throughout, which in comparison to The Force Awakens from last week, the humor of the robot weirdly worked for me in this film. Even though it's like borderline Marvel humor. I, I think it works for me because it's coming from a non human character and like he doesn't have to convey facial expressions or try to be serious as he's delivering this comedic line.

14:24 It works much better coming from a robot. I think that's why C3PO is so funny in in the original films. But man, you get to the end and everybody's dying and I don't give a rip about any of the characters dying except for the the freaking robot for some reason. Like, that's the death that I was like tearing up a little bit over. Right. And it's the sort of thing where like, I think also, you know, let's very quickly, what is Star Wars? Like an actual Star Wars? Star Wars is great because they have that one cinematic moment that makes you jump out of your seat in the cinema. It's when Luke uses the force in the trench to blow up the Death Star. It's when Vader says, I know I'm your father.

15:05 An Empire return to Genet doesn't have one. That's why it kind of sucks, you know? Come on man, Vader picking up, picking up the Emperor and the electricity. You knew that was coming. Like it wasn't that like, Oh my God moment. Whereas in like I, I remember I saw Phantom Menace in the theater like opening day 1999. I was 20 years old. The moment that Maul comes out, those doors open and he they throw off their robes and like, we'll take we can handle this. People lost their shit in the theater like they did. Then when Vader revealed he was his father, the same thing attacked the clones. That movie has a lot of detractors, but when the Jedi show up in Geonesus and all turn on their lightsabers, I know people who have a tattoo of that scene on them because it's another one of those holy shit moments. Again, Revenge of the Sith, Anakin and Obi Wan. That battle is an oh shit moment. Force Awakens doesn't have one.

15:58 It was supposed to be when Rey catches the lightsaber in the forest. I was there and nobody gave a shit. I can tell you though, in Last Jedi when Luke showed up, I watched an entire row of 10 year olds jump out of their seat and scream and joy seeing Luke show up to fight Kylo Ren. It had that ocean moment. Rise of Skywalker obviously didn't have it at all. This movie has that moment. It has a pure Star Wars moment, which is Vader shows up in that hallway in the mist and that lightsaber turns on and we get to finally see Vader fighting non force people and just going to town. Like I'm a huge fan of the Vader comics and sort of that whole mythos of what he actually did and how he became Vader after, after the fight on Mustafar and seeing him.

16:47 Like people jumped out of their seat the same way they did when Ball shows up and Naboo, the same way that my dad saw people jump out of their seat when Vader revealed he's Luke's father. And that's what Star Wars is Like. Yes, there's all the other stuff, but Star Wars succeeds as a film on moments like that, that you walk out and you're like, holy, did you see the double edged lightsaber? And that's all you talk about, right? Or it's like, I, I remember like, and this is me. You know, I, like I said, I just as the quick preface, when I was five, I had the full Return of the Jedi like bed set, like the comforter, the pillows, the curtains, the whole Ewok playset, everything.

17:29 But my dad had Empire, right? And that was like the moment he said people jumped out of their seats, they couldn't believe it. And I never really got that until that moment in Phantom Menace where I was like, holy. And then I got that again. I got to have that again with this movie where Vader shows up and just slaughters fools. And it's like, I got it twice. We're like, wow, this is amazing. And so for me, this film works perfectly as a Star Wars film because Gareth Edwards and Tony Gilroy understood that. They understood like we need this to be a Star Wars film. And where JJ sort of falls down is he didn't understand that because neither of his films have that like he has. He has people riding horses on a * destroyer, which is so stupid.

18:12 But also the whole the whole fight between Rey and Kylo in the forest, it's like it's not that moment because it's just, it's, it's, I understand it's yes, her using the force just like Luke did and blah, blah, blah. And New Hope. I get the, the whole parallel there, don't get me wrong, But it's not the same thing because it, it, it's not a triumphant moment. The the Death Star in Force Awakens has already been blown up. That's already over. She had nothing to do with that. And so, you know, it's this weird thing where I feel like with Gareth Edwards and then, of course, Tony Gilroy taking over in the end there and working with Gareth to sort of reshoot a lot of this film. They understood was like, hey, this is this is what Star Wars is as core, where you walk out and you're like, holy shit, that was amazing. Yeah.

19:01 And like you said, I think it's like you walked out actually, and you were like hiked on it, right? Oh, 100% right. Yeah. Like you, you walk out of Rogue One. I'll give just kind of my initial take from, you know, a decade ago almost, I remember watching walking out of this film and thinking the first half of this movie was like flaming hot garbage. I don't give a rip about any of these characters cause none of them are interesting. They all just kind of have A and then mentality of. Like way too much till not show like. Yeah, yeah, there's there's so much of that. And then the second-half of this film, I was like, that felt like a Star Wars movie. Like the battle scenes, the connection between Jin and what's his name, Cassian, right?

19:52 This like the connection between them in the midst of battle. Like that's something you get in good Star Wars films, capped off with maybe a top three scene in All Star Wars films of Vader just being awesome. And like the when he walks in, the shadows almost look like they have like tendrils. Like they're like they are. A demonic embodiment of evil that you couldn't quite do in 1977. And so I, I walked out of the film going, man, if I could just get rid of the first half and just watch like, you know, maybe add a little bit, but like an hour and 15 minutes.

20:33 Oh my gosh, the ending was incredible. So maybe this would be a good time for me to give a little bit of my personal history with the movie too, Brad, because as you know, I am not a Star Wars fan and I wouldn't call myself a Star Wars hater. But they've just never worked for me. And so even in moments where I am like supportive of Star Wars and the people in my life who love it, I find myself having to work really hard to, to feel excitement. You know, like I went on Christmas, Christmas night in 2015 to go see Force Awakens. I took like, we took like eight people.

21:13 I got a gift card for Christmas. I bought everyone's tickets. And then like, my gift card was gone. But we went, went to see Force Awakens. And I could see how excited everybody was to see that opening crawl come up again. And I'm like, I want to be as excited as you guys are. Rogue One is the first time. And I think it was because it it was it didn't have the burden of being a Star Wars movie. It was just a movie that existed within the wars of the stars. That was just like, it was a completely separate thing. And it was the first time that I had the ocean moment when Vader comes in at the end. I like in the theater, I was like, oh, shit, like it's it's happening now. And that sent me out on such a high. But if I'm being honest, this is this is my problem with Gareth Edwards movies, whether it's his Godzilla movie or he made a movie last year called the creator. He creates the most brilliant cinematic images. Like there's such a sense of scale. I don't know if he's doing if anyone does scale like him, except for maybe Denis Villeneuve. Like when you can literally see the height the way that like Star Destroyers are filmed in this movie. It's the coolest the ships have ever looked in a Star Wars movie.

22:30 And yet I think it says a lot about the flimsiness of the script and Edward's inability to really make you ever care about characters that we have just watched our lead characters die a horrific death in what is essentially a nuclear explosion. And then we immediately forget about them because he tacks on this ending of like, but Vader do cool thing now. And you're just like, yeah. And so I think that that's like that's the the dichotomy here is like the the stuff that we should be caring about falls away so quickly because he knows that we just want that immediate heroine hit of Vader killing guys. And here's my here's my spicy take on Star Wars in general. And and Brad, I know you're a fan as well. And I think true fans understand flaws as much as they understand the shine, right?

23:23 And Star Wars has always been deeply flawed. Like you go back and look at the script of that first film. The dialogue's terrible, like it's literally terrible. And the. They've talked about that in so many interviews where Harrison Ford is like, George, you go out there and say this fucking shit. Yeah, and also there's a lot of, there's a lot of fat on that film too. Like that film is way too long. Empire, that whole it's, it's 30 minutes. A Hoth where you're just like couldn't have been in the scrawl. Like I don't really need to see this. Like there I've been through phases of my life where I've just skipped over Hoth entirely and gone straight into the movie when, you know, the movie starts.

24:05 So it's the sort of thing where I always feel like with Star Wars, people try to find reasons to gloss over the problems with the scripts, the problems with the filmmaking, the problems with the ACT. Well, I don't really want to blame actors because it's the director's choice. It's the editor's choice. Like the actors are doing their job. I don't want to be like, oh, Riz Ahmed, you know, didn't do his, didn't act right. It's like, well, no, he was being told what to do by Carrot Edwards and Tony Gilroy. And like, he's doing his best in like, Rogue One, for instance. But it's for me, it's like Star Wars is campy fun, you know what I mean? And then it's also really fucking boring. And sometimes you got to skip over the boring parts. Like I said, I often skip over Hoth.

24:47 And for some people that's probably blasphemy. But also like, I don't, I can't remember the last time I watched Return of the Jedi. Like it would probably was when I was a little kid or it was on in the background at a party or something, you know what I mean? Because like, I don't need to watch it. I watched Rise of Skywalk Skywalker once in the theater. Never need to see that again, you know what I mean? And it's the and it's the story. You don't like the film. What I like about Rogue One and why I rewatch that pretty much every year. And like I said, I rewatch it twice for this is that film technically, which is this is really where you're just supposed to say, but bear with me. This film kind of stands alone, which is crazy because it's a prequel so tied to something so specific and has such beautiful detailed work. Like when you rewatch New Hope, you notice when they're that first scene in the Death Star with Peter Cushing and Vader and all the generals, there's one empty seat that's Chronic's seat because Chronic was, you know, down on down on the beach, you know?

25:46 So there's all these wonderful little details and illusions that you can draw the two together and they connect, you know, like 2 octopuses coming together to Make Love or something. But it's the sort of thing where you can really let this movie stand alone and watch it and have a great experience and it doesn't matter. Like, yeah, they got the Death Star plans for the rebels. They're going to blow it up. It doesn't matter. Like, it almost makes me hope kind of like, unnecessary in that sense. The story's over. And for me, as a cinephile and someone who loves story, I'm a huge sucker for the tragic ending. You know, the the heroes sacrifice themselves for the greater good. I mean, that's for me why like Pixar cars is so great because, you know, like including sacrifices his win for the greater good to help someone else out. He doesn't take this trophy.

26:37 He, you know, he chooses to help win or, you know, there's, you know, you know, Godfather's so great because Michael Corleone becomes, you know, he loses everything by becoming the godfather, you know, and even his wife and his children, which he, you know, and it's, it's that tragedy of like, you know, the American dream, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I so for me, like seeing them die on the beach, it's like, yeah, they're that's the sacrifice you have to make for good, right? And that sort of. I mean, Zach, I've always said, and I'm glad you you brought this up. I've always said to Brad, Cassie and Andor is the Lightning McQueen of the Star Wars universe. And he always said that there's no way but but I'm glad you really backed me.

27:21 Up on It's been a common back and forth in our texting, yes. Now, you brought up something, though, Zach, that I think is really important, and it is. It's that this movie really does stand alone, both thematically and in terms of like, how dour it is. But unfortunately, I think that the endless Star Wars machine churning over the last eight years by Disney has really reduced the power of this movie. It's not the movie's fault, but I have been so inundated with advertisements for freaking and the and or TV show and the Obi Wan Kenobi show and the Mandalorian and now the Acolyte that it's like we had never seen a boots on the ground Star Wars movie like this before. And it was the coolest, most revolutionary thing to hit this series in a long, long time.

28:07 But now watching it, it's like, oh, this is, this is really similar to watching any of those Star Wars TV shows. It's it's better than them, but I think that it's diluted the effect that the movie had at the time. I will say though if and OR is worth watching that is a phenomenal series because they keep with the same theme and look of the film or one it's all actually shot on location instead of that stupid 3D screen shows so it feels real. It's got the same vibe to it and it is it is dour. I mean, it is hardcore, like, you know, politics of like what it's actually like to live under a fascistic empire and, you know, you know, people are literally tortured to madness and things like that. And so again, I'm kind of a sucker for that because it kind of fits into where I am now as a Star Wars fan. Like if I was in my mid 20s when all this stuff was coming out, I'd probably think it's like ridiculous, you know what I mean?

29:09 But just it's, it's, it's all where it hits you, right? Like I think we're like about 10 years apart age wise. And so like, you know, I totally, you know, me kind of menacing me when I was 20 was, you know, it was sort of like, you know, I took a date, you know what I mean? Like it was a date night for me. And so, you know, it was that sort of thing where there is a different expectation there as a young adult as opposed to if I was 10. I mean, that movie, I would probably still think that was the best Star Wars movie of all time, you know what I mean? Because it was because that that's what it was made for. And that's what I think what's so interesting about Rogue One is Rogue One was made for a wider audience where, and George Lucas says this over and over and over again.

29:52 His Star Wars films are made for children. One was not made for children and, and, or is not made for children. And I think where Star Wars really starts to fall down is like in The Acolyte and Boba Fett and all those where it's like, yeah, these are just shows made for kids that should be animated but aren't because they want to do a live action. And it's like, you know, Lucasfilm understood this, and that's the way they made Rebels and Clone Wars and all those things animated because they're for kids. When you bring those people into the real world, and especially in what was the the latest one, Ahsoka, whereas like there's brilliant moments in there, but the overall it's like, these are cartoon characters and I hate them because they're acting like cartoon characters and quote UN quote real life because it doesn't transfer, right?

30:37 And that's the feeling of Disney's, like you said, churn of just like pushing the stuff and pushing and pushing. And you know my only response is hey, just watch the good stuff and ignore the rest, right? Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm with you on that man. They, they have put out so much stuff that it, it, it loses its value. Like there's a, there's a huge reason why Episode one did so well and why The Force Awakens did so well because there was what, 9/10/10 years between Revenge of the Sith and The Force Awakens and 15 years, 16 years between Return of the Jedi and Phantom Menace, right. And so it's like you kind of need a little bit of time for the films to walk off into the sunset and just remain in your memory and for them to come back and have the impact. And I'm sorry, I don't mean to be so monopolizing here, but I think also the one smart thing Disney knew, or at least Kathleen Kennedy knew going into the reboot when it became Disney.

31:46 It's like, OK, we're going to do Force Awakens for the reboot, for the fans, for the kids, but let's also do one for the grown-ups who were alive when the first ones came out. And so that's why those two films came out so close to each other, right? So that's sort of yin and Yang where it's like, yeah, but we also have fans who are 40 now who who have, you know, more complex thought processes and understand, like, hey, this is actually a kind of amazing world that Lucas created here. We can dig in a little bit more. But then like you said, you can go off and I mean, I don't know how much you guys read like the books or like I said, I'm really into the major comic books and like, I know the animated shows from the early 2000s decently. I didn't watch them religiously or anything. I know like the Canon and things like that. And I I collected, you know, the cards in the 80s and 90s and blah, blah, blah.

32:40 But it's the sort of thing where, you know, this film, Rogue One, I believe, does fan service and, and this is so rarely done, but right where it's like, yes, it is 100% there. There's so much fan service on this, but it's never flashing in your face. It's been with Vader at the end being the most ridiculous thing ever. But it's amazing because it's, it's, it's what it's that scene is only like 30 seconds long too. It's not him fighting for 5 minutes at the end of the film. It's like, no, this is instant because he's a God, said Lord. He's a magical space wizard and this, this is how it would be. There's no contest here. And that's the thing I hate about like especially in the Acolyte where they forget their Jedi, where it's like, how about you just read their mind? You're a Jedi, you know, like, you know what I mean or whatever.

33:28 It's like you read that guy's mind like last scene. Why aren't you reading it now? You know, Sorry, I had a digression there. But it's like they don't forget what everyone is like. Jen Erso is just a rebel. Cassian is just a person. He's a rebel. You know, Galen, Yeah, he's a he's an engineer. You know, I, I love the new take where he's ethical Oppenheimer. But he's still, he's still just a person, right? And he's, he's trying to exist in this world. And even Krennick is just a bureaucrat. And so, you know, yes, Krennick is sort of, you know, very lightly associated with with Vader as his kind of overlord boss, but not really like his day-to-day is bureaucracy.

34:08 And you see it. I, I sent you the the jiff of him when he first gets to Galen and on the Iceland planet, whatever it's called. And it's like farming really like, you know, it's almost an insult to him. And just I love the whole scene because he like it's Ben Mendelsohn and Matt Mickelson. So they're phenomenal. But just like, oh, your wife died. That's really a shame. And just his way of like conveying like, I know you're bullshitting me. Can we just, you know, jump? Can we cut to the chase here? Cut to the chase. Like, come on, you, you don't insult my intelligence. I know you're a genius engineer, but it's not insulting my intelligence. We're old friends. And, you know, it's this like nice subtlety between those two actors, which they can pull off because they're phenomenal actors, right?

34:52 Where you don't get that with a lot of people cast in these movies. Yeah, I was going to say that the opening scene is incredible. It is so sharp. And for me, Bob, like you talked about the impact of not having the fanfare of jumping right into a scene. I felt the same way the first time I watched this. I like I was like, hey, if we're going to do a spin off Star Wars movie, like sure, let's change a few things up. And there's not a lot of sacred cows for me in the Star Wars universe. As long as I feel like the director respects the Star Wars universe. And I think that's which, yeah, Gareth, Gareth Edwards 100% does in the way he makes this film. I mean, even the little tiny fan service things, like whenever they fly into Yavin 4 and you see the random guy in the tower, like, tracking them in, you know, like, yeah, like it's a tiny, little fan service thing that that doesn't detract or out of the plot.

35:51 It just gives you a beautiful panorama to look at for a few seconds. And it kind of scratches the Star Wars itch. So yeah, that I think there's a lot of things to like here in Rogue One. All right, guys, I think we're at a good spot to hit pause here when we come back from break it. You know, in addition to two facts and a falsehood. Let's talk about the cast a little bit because I still have to get my spicy takes about the cast out of the way. But I think it's all tied in with this Gareth Edwards soup where I can't tell if it's the way he directs his actors or if there's just not a lot for some of them to do. But but there are definitely peaks and valleys to the cast list here. So we'll hit on that when we get back from break. Brad, it's time for us to go drink some Jim Beam Devil's Cut.

36:35 What do you say? Get the devil in me, Bob. All right, so today we are checking out Jim Beam Devil's Cut Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey. This is the second in the Jim Beam sort of mini series that we're doing to round out the season here, Brad. And I have to be honest with you, I'm I'm very familiar with this product. I don't know if I've ever tried it before. Yeah, I've seen it many times on the shelves. It's it's a somewhat distinct bottle on the lower shelves of the whiskey aisle. I have never drank it. I remember very distinctly when it came out, 'cause I was working at a grocery store at the time and they were running a whole bunch of ads.

37:22 That was really playing up the bad ass Ness of this bottle. And do you know who their spokesperson was at the time? Brad, I don't know if you remember these ads. Ozzy Osbourne. It was Kid Rock. Hey, the baddest of asses. And man, I feel like the bourbon industry has come a long way from that. Was like the biggest name attached to bourbon at the time. It was like, whoa, Kid Rock. Yeah, the the whiskey industry has indeed come a long, long way to the point where now they can charge, you know, hundreds if not thousands of dollars for whiskeys that probably don't deserve that that type of a hype, Bob. But not, crucially, for Jim Beam Devil's Cut 'cause this is still a bargain whiskey if ever I've seen one. Now what I understand of the process, Brad and I'm I'm going to go ahead and read the copy on the side of the bottle here to lay lay some groundwork for those who are not familiar with Devil's Cut.

38:15 They say while bourbon ages and the angels share evaporates, some also remains trapped inside the barrel. This is the devil's cut. We extract this dark and intense liquid from our charred white oak barrel walls and blend it with extra aged bourbon. So that is the process folks. They found a way to extract the devil's cut out of the wood and then kind of infuse it back into their regular bourbon. I have it on good authority from people in the industry that there really is some sort of proprietary way that they do this. I don't know what it is, but it's not complete BS. It is a gimmick, but it is a gimmick that has reality attached to it. So, you know, I'm OK with a gimmick as long as it's not a made-up gimmick. Yeah, 100%.

39:00 The best that I can tell from reading more about it online, everybody seems to be in agreement that what they do is they add a little bit of water to the empty barrel, set it out in the sun and let it heat up and evaporate the liquid out of the wood and back into. That's the proprietary thing is like hey go rinse the barrel. Yep, it's just the barrel back washing. Yeah, supposedly there's some sort of like agitation that also happens. So I, I like to think that they just hire like an Andre the Giant look alike to like shake the barrel, like he's just walking around. Squeezing the Steve the staves like he's ringing out a rag. Yeah, yes.

39:41 All right. So this is 90 proof. It is not age stated, but we know that it is at least four years old because of that. So Brad, let's go ahead and dive into Jim Beam. Devil's cut. What are you picking up on the nose here? Oak, Bob there, there's some oak and then there's some oak. There's a little bit of burnt caramel. It gets a little bit peanutty. There's a bit of like a sour young apple peel vibe going on. I'm not a huge fan here. It's not bad. 5 1/2. I don't know if I've ever really experienced a bourbon smelling thin on on the nose.

40:22 It doesn't smell like not potent. It just smells like it's going to be a really thin whiskey. And that's OK. You know, it has that classic beam nuttiness that we've talked about last week and, and in many prior reviews. There's a lot of peanut butter here underneath the oak. It's not super complex, but the oak gives it a spice. The peanut butter gives it that nice kind of round sweetness. I do get a really weird note, Brad, and it I am, I am cataloging this for my future fat guy tasting notes here. You know how when you get Chinese takeout, everything kind of smells like MSG a little bit Like it just kind of hangs on the paper bag. And it reminds me of like when I'm going to eat the fortune cookie at the end of the Chinese meal, but there's still the the smell of like fried rice hanging around.

41:09 I don't know how to explain it. It's like cookie with MSG. And that is a note I don't think I've ever had on a bourbon before, man. Yeah. I, I mean, it's a proprietary process, Bob. So you're gonna get some proprietary nosings here. All that said, I don't. I don't hate this. I'm gonna give it a 7 out of 10. Man, that, that's a lot higher than me, Bob. I was not quite as impressed taste wise. I'll come up a little bit from my nosing score. I'll give it a six out of 10 on the pallet. The apple peel comes through a little stronger. The oak turns into like a charred oak. There's a little bit of cinnamon here. It's watery Bob I I don't know how else to explain it, but it it does not taste as viscous as it ought to at 90 proof like it. To me this feels like an 80 proof whiskey. I don't like this, Brad.

42:03 Yeah, I'm going to be honest here. And you know what? We have had the master distiller of Jim Beam on our show before. Wonderful guy. They make a myriad of products that I thoroughly enjoy. This is not one of them. It is really, really thin in terms of mouthfeel, but the bitterness from that oak extraction, it doesn't even taste like oak to me. It tips into almost chemically like it's just a really bitter, you could call it herbal, but it almost tastes artificial. And that's like, it's a, it's a type of bitter that I only really associate with very low grade cheap whiskey. And that's what I'm getting here, man. And it, and I think because of that oakiness, it's kind of compounding that bitterness and that chemically flavor for me.

42:49 I'm only going to give this a 5 out of 10 on the palate. And I think that's being generous for me. Yeah, 100%, dude. I think the finish just kind of disappears on me. There's a little bit of oak and black pepper, but there is nothing happening on the finish. 4 1/2 for me here. I, I really don't have a ton to say, Bob. Yeah, the finish is not quite as bad for me. I do get a little bit of that apple peel that you were mentioning. It comes out at the end and some of those cinnamon notes. So it is a slight rebound, but even then it's it's just wisps of flavor because it's such a thin whiskey. I think I'll give it a 5 1/2 on the finish.

43:29 Yeah, balance wise, there's nothing to write home about here. I'll give it a 5 out of 10. I don't know, we might as well get into value pretty soon here. Yeah, I'll, I'll give it a six out of 10 on balance because again, this is a very inexpensive whiskey. I don't expect a lot from inexpensive whiskeys, especially in today's market. That has nothing to do with what I'm going to say on value, but it is a, it is a perfectly fine, very cheap whiskey. So I'll give it a six there. Now Brad, to my knowledge, this is still going for somewhere in the 20s, right? $19.99 in the. State of there you go baby. Now again, when we talk value, Brad and I often operate from different points of view.

44:15 I usually look at it from, is this overpriced given the market? Brad usually looks at it from one of two perspective, which is would I just pay that much for this whiskey or is there another whiskey out there at this price that I think is way better? And so I think we give a a nice picture of overall value here for the market. This is not a bad value because you really can't get whiskey for much cheaper than this unless you're going to knock all the way down to Benchmark. Here's the thing though, Brad, I think Benchmark's probably a better whiskey than this. It's certainly, Yep, it certainly doesn't have those bitter notes that are off putting to me the way that this one does. So I think on every metric that we can judge value, this one is probably not going to fare very well. I'm just going to give this a 5 out of 10 on value. Yeah, I, I'm 100% with you, man.

45:07 5 out of 10 on value. I I liked the double oaked Bob and I, I think if you're going for an oakier version of Jim Beam, go spend 20 bucks on that. Don't spend it on the Devil's Cut. I'm coming to a 26 out of 50. I'm just a little bit higher than you. I'm at a 28.5 which puts us at a 54 1/2 out of 100 or just a 27.25 out of 50 on average. This is really close to, if not the lowest rated whiskey of the season for us. Brad and I. I would say like just in plain honesty here, this is a misfire from Jim Beam. I'm really surprised that this thing has lasted as long as it has on the market. I imagine people are using this as a mixer and I think it probably might make a good whiskey and Coke just because there is so much oak and bitterness to it, it it would really stand out versus a Coke.

46:03 Unfortunately we don't sample our whiskeys with Coke when we're deciding if it's a good whiskey or not, so I I can't really speak to that. Did did you just say, Unfortunately we don't do that? I mean, I would like to every now and then. That sounds nice. I'm not a cola guy. Oh my gosh dude, every now and then you like truly dig your heels in on just the weirdest stuff. Like everyone likes a Coca-Cola. What do you mean you're not a cola guy? I I don't like any colas Bubba RC. Oh man, maybe you did grow up poor after all. Brad, I, I know that brand very well.

46:43 Oh man. All right. Do we recommend this product? I'm going to say no. No. Yeah, OK, let's get back into talking about this movie with our friend Zach Johnston. What do you say? Let's get to it, man. All right, everybody, That was Jim Beam. Devil's poop. No, that wasn't that bad. Come on, man. Hey, by the way, did you did you like my my comparison to Darth Vader talking about devil's cut? Do you get it 'cause he's kind of like the devil Also also his lightsaber, it cuts. Yeah, it does cut. And it's red. This is this operates on so many levels. Brad, you are.

47:28 That's why they called me the master of metaphor. That's my basketball 1970s basketball player nickname. The. Master of metaphor. I feel like if you were a coach in the 70s, that would be your nickname. Me and Red Auerbach just smoking cigars and coming up with convoluted nicknames. Turning off the hot water to the opposing locker room. I love it. All right, dude, let's get into two facts and a falsehood. Brad is gonna try to stump your ball. 2 All right and what is wrong? 2 Facts and a falsehood. Two Facts and a Falsehood is the part of the show where Brad presents me with three items as fact about the making of this movie, one of which is a complete lie. Brad, I have been on just an absolute horrible streak lately for myself.

48:21 Luckily, I have a ringer here today to help me out. So the way this usually works, folks, is that if we have a guest and I choose to enlist his or her help, I can get one win in the win column if we guess correctly. But if we lose, I can get two losses in the loss column. So it kind of throws off the tallying a little bit, but it raises the stakes quite a bit. I can already tell you that I am going to enlist Zach today because I don't know anything about the Star Wars universe. Frankly, I also do not care that much so. So. So this is basically all made-up. 100%. Man, so Anakin Skywalker became Darth, and I'm kidding.

49:07 Spoilers. All right man, hit me with your two facts and a falsehood. Fact #1 Alan Tudyk, voice of K2 SO also voiced fan favorite character HK47 in the critically acclaimed video game series Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic. Fact #2 Anthony Daniels was jokingly disgruntled that Alan Tudyk was allowed to pay play K2 SO in the relative comfort of a motion capture suit, whereas Daniels had to endure years of discomfort and injuries in the C3PO costume. Fact #3 This is, I know you're getting sick of him. This is Alan Tudic's second time portraying a robot in a film, the first being in 2004's I, Robot. Let me frankly make a confession to you here, Brad. You got another confession to make. Alan Tudic is a guy that I recognize his face, like when I see him in the cast list and I know that he's done things that have like large fan bases, like I don't know if he was involved in Doctor Who or like what what else he's from. I don't know a lot about the guy. And like, even as I went down the cast list, I was like, oh, Alan Tudyk, people know him.

50:25 You could not have picked a worse person for me to make three statements about because as far as I know, they are all false. I don't know a thing about this man. Good thing you got to phone a friend 'cause I know exactly what you're rich. OK, well then let let me let me say my guesses first before Zach just shuts this down. I feel like Zach's going to be like in the third Lord of the Rings movie when Aragorn shows up with all the ghost pirates and then the battle's just over. Like we need to at least prolong it a little bit. The Ghost Pirates. Whatever they're called, they they're on a ship. The Army of the Dead Robert the. Army of dead robot pirates, whatever they're called.

51:06 OK, so Alan Tudyk, I'm going to say sure. He was a voice in a video game. I assume this was a mocap performance because he's so tall that it kind of would have to be some sort of mocap performance. And then the third one was, what was the third one, Brad? This is his second time portraying a robot, the first being 2004's I, Robot. I remember loving the film I, Robot and I just saw a clip come up on YouTube shorts last week and boy howdy does that not look very good anymore 20 years later. I One of the few things I remember from my robot is when the the main female protagonist objects to Will Smith using a motorcycle because it has gasoline in it and gasoline explodes. All right.

52:00 So Zach, I really don't know. If I had to venture a guess, I would say it's got to be either one or two. Brad is a gamer, so he could just make up a game that I don't know and one could be false. He also knows a lot about and has a fondness for C3PO. So maybe it's two. I would say 2, but that's just, I'm just taking a stab here. What is the actual answer here, Zach? So I'm going to lead you away from those. Oh, OK. No, HK47 was voiced by Christophe Tabori, famously so. Famously is is famously in quotes. Feel like famously is things that people know dude. So I, I played all the games like, you know, the sort of thing where it's like, no.

52:46 And he was sort of 'cause he's kind of like that 70s avant-garde, like John Cassavetes guy level filmmaker. So like, having him voice a robot was a big deal at the time. But yeah, it definitely wasn't Alan Tuda to voice that role. Unless. Unless they did a remake or something that I'm not aware of, but it was definitely Christopher Tobieri. So #1 then according to Zach is the falsehood and I again just for the record do not know or care. So this is solely to save my own pride and record at 2 facts and a falsehood. I'm going to push on all my chips and put my lot in with Zach and say that one is the falsehood, Brad. Bob, I'm not even upset that I lost this week. Yeah, like the the fact that not only did Zach, has he played those games?

53:42 And Zach, would you agree with me that HK47 is one of the greatest characters? Yeah, of all. Time any Star Wars iteration Bob he is a robot assassin who joins your party in First off. I can't believe you've never heard of Knightsville Republic, one of the greatest game series of all time. He is a robot assassin that he speaks by like he always prefaces what he's about to say with the type of sentence. So he'll be like query, what does this meat bag think he is doing in front of me? And he always refers to humans as meat bags.

54:24 And it's just it's an incredible character. The fact that Zach knew the voice actor. I I'm stunned and happy and will happily give you a victory here, Bob. Thank you so much, I really put in the work to earn this one this week too so. I'll take that victory. Yeah, that's right, Zach. I hope you'll appreciate that. I was actually like really proud of this one. I was like, Oh yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna put a little Knights, the Old Republic mentioned in here. Exactly, Yeah, 'cause that's great. That's a great call back as well because it's sort of, in my opinion, they've been chasing that Android character this whole time and they've never nailed it again. And honestly, I I thought of it because I think K2, SO like they had to have used HK as like very heavy inspiration for the, the Rogue One character.

55:14 Yeah, especially the way he talks to Jin, like all, you know, slap the taste out of your mouth sort of thing. Like that's so him. No, it's it's so him, am I right guys? So HK. Bob. Classic HK. Move. All right, let's get back. Into talking and I fall in order. Let's get back into talking about Rogue One here, guys. And Brad, as we do it, As you know, we've said that we're sipping on this Blackwood here. I don't want to go too deep into our tasting notes on the Blackwood, especially since I I'd really like to give this a full review in an upcoming episode, but especially coming off of the Jim Beam. Brad, I am picking up on this toasted bourbon just like it's a vanilla bomb on the nose. And then when you get to the palate, it's got like, it almost has that sort of slightly tannic black tea and mint from the toasted oak.

56:07 I get a ton of black cherry on this. Like there's just there's a depth of flavor here. And you know, Brad, that I don't typically go in for toasted barrel bourbons, but this has a really nice, I wouldn't call it black tea, more like a Roy Bus tea. Like it's really, really, really good, man. And Zach, I think you guys are hitting it out of the park with this Batch 3. Yeah, there there's a, oh, it's like a BlackBerry citrus tea that my wife gets that I'm a big fan of that. Like I literally drank this and was like, Oh my God, it's a better version of that because it's whiskey. There is so much incredible flavour here. And it's the, for me, the thing that really stood out was the viscosity.

56:52 Like this thing has an ability to coat your palate, your tongue to, to give you the flavours and sit there for a while. Dude, this is some good. This is some daggone good whiskey. Yeah, it's absolutely, you know, intentional and I agree, like toasted finishes can get really chewy and woody, like your firewood kindling sort of not to name many names, but the it's sort of they think toasted means it's got to be like the kindling that's just been lit on fire or whatever. That's not really what the point of toast it is. Like when you're talking about a toasted barrel, it's about activating the sugars that are in that barrel to make them more accessible to the distillate, right. And so if you're doing that, you want to have that creaminess, you want to bring balance.

57:36 So like with with this the balance. To the force. Yeah, balance, right? Both are toasted dry and toasted bourbon. It's part of it is a sort of sort of throwback to the heyday of the 50s and 60s in American whiskey when you had those Old Fitz 64 and the Old Granddad won fourteen in the 70s and the Old Wellers antiques in the 60s as well, where you had those like bold, creamy, balanced, spicy, like dark stewed fruit, sort of bourbons that everyone's been chasing ever since. But can I can act to because, you know, the the world's a different place than it was in the 50s and 60s. And So what we've sort of done here is found a way to get back to those super balanced, super creamy, bold whiskeys with those flavor knows you guys so aptly mentioned without having to, you know, recreate it in the mash bill of that.

58:28 We you simply don't have the grains from back then. You don't have to whip from back then. And so putting it in that toasted barrel allows you to pull those fresh caramelized sugars out into an already good distillate because it's a 7 to 9 year old Kentucky bourbon into a good distillate and then a lower char so that you're not filtering, you're not losing that through the filtration of the charcoal, right. And and for me, it's the sort of thing where I can tell you, you know, the story Blackwood farms and country house and our our origin story and you know, it's all has complete veracity to it and it's fun, fascinating story, but I'd rather just pour you one of these and be like tasteless. But I gotta say, folks, the bourbon is really, really good and it has given me the courage to move forward with my spicy takes on this cast list. The spicy take of all spicy takes. I'm gonna start right at the top here, guys. I love love me some Felicity Jones. Like she made a movie called like crazy back in the day. That was AI took Carrie to see it Brad, and it was like the tiniest little indie movie, insanely good movie. And then she she goes on to star in the theory of everything and I think she's even better than Eddie Redmayne is in that movie. She's like just fantastic in that movie. Bob Eddie Redmayne won the Oscar. There, I think she's actively bad in this movie, Brad, and I think that it it's a combination

59:59 of the way Gareth Edwards directs her. It's also just like, if I can be frank here, there's just something about her sort of like her make up as a person and and her like constitution. She is like a very she plays very fragile and kind of delicate people in movies and I think she she taps into that really, really well. Kind of similar to what you got with. Natalie Portman. But then you see how George Lucas directs Natalie Portman in like the second and third installments of the prequel trilogy and she's a freaking badass. And there really wasn't any point in this film where I didn't feel like Felicity Jones was just pretending when she gives her rousing speech to the whole group of rebels. It does not work at all.

1:00:43 And it really, honestly makes me appreciate Daisy Ridley even more as Rey, because I think Rey can shoulder a lot of both the emotional weight of her character and the badassery in a way that Felicity Jones just does not pull off here. So you know the bipolarness of that, right? Like you guys remember the there was the first trailer, which there's exactly 0 footage from the film in that trailer. So the first kind of the film where she's like I rebel. Like she's a hardcore rebel. Oh yeah, I do remember that one now, yeah. Basically that's what Tony Gilroy was brought on and they completely re shot her entire character and so there is there is a reason why she's not all there. Interesting.

1:01:30 Yeah, which is it's no, it's no excuse. That's that's a fault. This film 100%. So are you guys with me on this take then? It's not as spicy as it seems. Yeah, I the first time through, I gave 0 rips about her. I thought she was a terrible character. This time through, I think that there's places where you're, you see her acting chops come through. I'm thinking of when she goes and picks up the child in the middle of the battle. I'm thinking when she tears up and is like losing it, overseeing her father for the first time in like 20 years. It's those more emotional moments where I think she shines. So I yeah, I'm kind of with you, Bob. Like when she has a chance, the camera can just sit on her and she can have an emotional moment. I like her the rest of the film, though. She's not an action hero.

1:02:26 She doesn't really have an arc. Like, let's face it, like she starts off as like, OK, the rebels pick me up, I'm going to go do this and she does it and that's it. Whereas you look at like Cassian, a lot of the heavy lifting of the ark and the emotional thrust of the story is put on him because he goes from like a rebel willing to kill his sources to being able to die for the wanting to die for the 'cause, you know, and sort of that's another fault of the script. Like you can have both of them have an ark, you know, you can have her be like, you know, I'm a rebel, I rebel. What do you want me to do? Be, you know, nice. Because again, it's hard because I keep going into like, Canon here, but she was raised by Saw Guerrero, right, who was a terrorist rebel.

1:03:09 And, you know, they very clearly say, you know, Moth was says like, yeah, he was too extreme for us, so we got rid of him. And that's how her original character supposedly was in the script where she was kind of an extremist. And then she had to learn to play ball, which is an arc, right? And they completely took that out, which is 100% hard to ignore in this film. Cool. Well, that, man, that that did not elicit the spicy reactions I thought it was gonna get. It sounds like we all. Really. Go back to my point, that's not her fault, that's that's Gareth Edwards and Tony Kilroy's fault. Yeah. Actors like she's an amazing actress. I just wanted to make that clear. Like she was doing her job the best of her ability and she kind of got a shit sandwich of a script when they started reshooting. 100% man, I do think Diego Luna is just being Diego Luna and that's really, really great for what this movie needs.

1:04:01 He is just, he has such an air of I don't know, chill about him. Like everything just seems to kind of roll off his back even when he's in high pressure situations. He kind of reminds me of like pre Marvel Mark Ruffalo that way. He has that sort of like shaggy chill guy quality Brad. This is at least the 2nd movie we've talked about with him in it after his smaller role in The Terminal, but he was even really good in that movie and I, I just think he's really welcome here. I'm glad they continued to develop this character with the Andor TV show. If there's a spicy take remaining in my cast list, I don't know, like I was kind of excited to see Forest Whitaker show up and then I was like, oh, that's what we're doing here. Oh, OK.

1:04:46 That my guy was not just chewing scenery, but he like he was in a different movie if I'm being honest. Yeah, I mean, let's go back to what Zach talked about earlier with cartoon characters in a live action setting. Saw Guerrero was originally a cartoon character and they brought him into a live action setting and man, oh man, I I think he was like the main turn off for me the first time I saw this. This time around I had a little more grace for him, but man, I do not like Forest Whitaker in this movie. Guys, it is not my favorite. Yeah, luckily it's short, like if they're smart enough at least not to make him an integral part of the.

1:05:31 But again, watch like I, I hate to say this again, broken record. Go back and watch that original trailer for this film. Its character was completely different. Like all those things were reshot. And so, you know, not in any way being like Snyder Cutter or anything like that, but it's it's curious like the like the bipolarness of this film sometimes where you're just like saws this, you know, insane terrorist rebel who, you know, obviously has been through so much. And they do. So they do a wonderful job of showing visually showing, not telling that he's, you know, a hardcore veteran. But then it's just sort of like there's no purpose there.

1:06:13 Like there's no like they could have. They could have accomplished that in such a more fastidious way. I kept expecting him to show up later in the movie and like be a surprise bad guy or something. Because the way that they send his character off, he's, I don't remember exactly what he says, but he basically just goes go be free. Like he's releasing her into an open pasture. And then they just cut away from him. And I'm like, what? What's that? That surely that can't be the end of his character, But it was. Did did you want a 10 minute back story on him, Bob? No, I just like he says something that is so outlandishly cheesy. It's something like be free.

1:06:59 He's like, you know, continue to play the game or something and she she runs off and he gets buried alive. And I guess that's that's how he wanted to go out. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's again, it's Star Wars, right? It's it's got a lot of fat and cheese that are you. Sometimes you got to kind of like this is my perfect, my perfect 44 year old father of two Star Wars synopsis. Perfect for a Sunday afternoon where you fall asleep two or three times during each movie. Yep. And usually fall asleep during the dumb parts like that and wake up for the fun parts. Yeah, as long as you wake up later at the end. Yeah. You know, then you really didn't miss much, you know?

1:07:40 Yeah. And honestly like to talk about things that I like in this movie. I think that they nail the Star Wars visual style of what it looks like to have a space battle, what it looks like to have a ground battle, and what it looks like to be up close with your main hero. Like, like we see this in so many of the movies where it's like, let's have a bunch of spaceships fight each other and it's going to look awesome. We're going to have a bunch of people on the ground explode and shoot each other and it's going to look awesome. And then we're also going to follow our heroes. And I think that they really nailed that aspect of the movie at the end. And you're right, Bob, they make the Star Destroyers look so freaking cool in this movie.

1:08:22 And when they're like knocking into each other and destroying the the planetary shield, that there's just so much of that that feels awesome in the proper Star Wars way. So, Brad, we're in a really unique position here this week because we are in the middle of a run of three Star Wars films. And so next week is going to be even more interesting for a number of reasons, but because we won't just be comparing it to one other film, we'll be comparing it to its predecessor in the trilogy, but also to this movie. But for now, I, I really want to pick your brain because I've, I've been struggling to compare this to The Force Awakens.

1:09:03 And I think that where I'm landing on this, Brad, is this is the, the kind of Star Wars movie I'd rather see for. If you're going to make a movie for grown-ups like this is the direction you need to go with it. But between the two movies, there is a perfect Star Wars film buried in there somewhere. If you could just kind of Frankenstein together some elements of each. Because for all of his faults, JJ Abrams has always been really, really good at getting you to care about characters. Whether you agree with those characters arcs or not, He makes you feel the weight of their decisions and their emotional arcs. Like I think about the TV show Lost, which ultimately I think suffers from the same thing as his sequels, which is just like, I'm never going to actually reveal what's going on. I'm going to continue playing this mystery box thing until you figure out that that that I'm just stalling for time. But in the interim, I'm going to get you really invested in where this might be going by writing these characters backstories in in a really profound way.

1:10:07 And that's. Why Mission Impossible Three is one of my favorites. I freaking love Mission Impossible three man like, and I think that if this movie had more of Abraham's ability to make you care about characters, this might end up being my favorite Star Wars movie because it's got the visuals, It's got the ultimate tragic arc, but the tragic arc doesn't land as hard as it should. And so I guess I'm, I'm wondering, Brad, like let's draw comparisons, but also like, am I way off base and thinking that there's a almost perfect Star Wars movie somewhere between these two? No, I I think you're, you're right in line, Bob. The problem with there's so many problems with Force Awakens. The problem for me is that The Force Awakens feels so much shinier than this one and has, in my opinion, just so much bad dialogue.

1:11:08 There are elements of I care more about the characters in The Force Awakens, but the Rogue One just looks like a Star Wars movie. It plays like a Star Wars movie. It sounds like a Star Wars movie. And it, and you're right, Zach, I honestly, I'd never thought of it before in that terms of like, what is the big punch that this movie delivers like and that being an important element of the Star Wars universe. But I'm with you. Like, I think that Abrams tries to do that not just with I think he does try to do it with the the lightsaber moment. I think he tries to do it with Han Solo and Kylo right when they meet on the bridge and and Kylo kills him. I think he's trying to deliver that big punch there, but we all know that Kylo is going to kill him.

1:11:54 So it kind of takes away from that. I, I think Rogue One succeeds in those areas, but I'm with you 100%. My I, I think my take away the first time I watch this is still my take away the second time. I don't care about these characters. Like the only reason I care about the faux Jedi, the the blind faux blind Jedi and his guardian companion is because a, they mimic more characters from Knights of the Old Republic, which I don't know, Zach, if you kind of caught that, but but they have great chemistry with each other. And like, that's the only reason I care about them.

1:12:36 They don't have a great arc. They're not actually that interesting of characters. The actors have great chemistry together and that makes me a little sad when they die. And I think that's why Felicity Jones and Diego Luna don't work great. I don't think that they have really good chemistry with each other. Yeah, especially like Jianwen and Donnie yen, like you can tell they're brothers to the death, right? But I also think like sort of going back to Bob's point, like the the problem with Force Awakens is the rebels don't look like rebels. They look like a very well funded private army from like Baxter or whatever. Whereas in Rogue One, they look like the rebels who are a Ray Tang group. I mean, look, we George Lucas has said like he was thinking of the Vietcong and and the American Empire when he was writing New Hope, right?

1:13:26 Which is like, yeah, that's an obvious illusion, right? That's an obvious parallel where how can these like Ray take group of, you know, guerrillas take on an empire and win? You know, it was 74 was the fall of Saigon 7576. He's right. And it's obviously that's the big thing you would be thinking about in your mind, not that the rebels are the Vietcong. That's, you know, it's not literal, right. And I felt for the first time ever, and I think George Lucas told Gareth Edwards and Tony Gilroy, this Rogue One's his favorite film in the series of the new ones because it felt like that. It felt like these were actual rebels who were, who weren't all united and there were different factions, but they were ragtag and they were, you know, they were, you know, emaciated and they, they had morals that were all over the place.

1:14:12 And, you know, it wasn't this like, oh, in Force Awakens, we are the perfect good guys who look perfect and are perfectly coiffed and shaved and uniformed. It's like, well, that's not rebels. That's, you know, army for hire. And that's what they literally say in Last Jedi, which people got kind of pissed off about. But you know, I, I do like Gareth Edward said when George Lucas told him Rogue One was his favorite Star Wars movie that he didn't make. He says I can die happy now, but I can see it. I can see that being that could have been new or sorry, that could have been Force awakens. Force Awakens could have looked like that. It could have felt like that. And so Bob, I agree with you.

1:14:54 Like the aesthetic of Rogue One. Put that on to Force Awakens, and I think Force Awakens becomes marginally, but not marginally. It becomes exponentially better just from that care alone. Obviously there are other problems with the script and blah blah blah, but that doesn't matter. The look was wrong in Force Awakens, right? Yeah, which we we touched on last week too, Brad. And, and I think that this might be a good natural segue into getting into our last segment of the day, 'cause now we're we're pairing this up with Force Awakens. So let's see what other movies we want to pair this up with with our last segment. Let's make it a double. We're near the end of the episodes of Things, listening to the film and Whiskey Show.

1:15:35 Let's pair another film with this one, even if it's struggling. It's a final segment of the day. Now let's make it a double. Let's Make It a Double is the part of the show where we pick a movie to pair up with this one to make the perfect double feature. Zach, you are on A roll today. Man, I I did not know that you felt this strongly about this film and or the Star Wars saga in general. So I'm going to ask you what would make the best double feature for this film? So I'm going to, I'm going to go back to the the 70s well, which you guys probably know well by now from me, but I'm going with Kelly's heroes. Oh nice. It's a World War Two heist film and at the core, Rogue One is a heist film. Like Brad, like you said, the second-half of the film where the heist starts, that's when the film kind of starts. Like it, like in a good Star Wars movie, it starts 40 minutes in.

1:16:23 But the Kelly's heroes, you know, it's a sort of, you know, the, you know, these, these rebels in the American American GIS who are rebels who go AWOL to go get some gold from the Nazis and have to, you know, fight their way back through ridiculous odds. Just like the battle Scara for the, you know, they're fighting, you know, ATATS and like trying to blow them up and they just, you know, turn back and look at them. You know, they're fighting Panzer tanks and Tiger tanks in the end of that film. And it's a very similar vibe where, you know, it's it's insurmountable odds for, you know, oddball and Claremont and the whole team to like get through out of France, back through the German lines and back into home territory.

1:17:04 And it just feels like also it's more light hearted. I mean, it's as comedy. It's a 70s comedy, so the comedies are very dry and kind of weird sometimes. But it's a nice little throwback and it's a lot lighter and it's a little more fun. Everybody doesn't die in the end. You know what, I'm I'm glad you said that one because I was thinking at first this reminds me of like The Dirty Dozen or not, not the guns of Navarone. What's the other one? Force 10 from Navarone, like all of these kind of almost exploitative. We're gonna send dudes into World War Two and just, you know, everything that influenced Inglourious Basterds essentially. I think you could definitely pair this movie up with. But also a killer cast, right? He's 100%. Don Rickles, Carol O'Connor Donald Sutherland who just passed Henry.

1:17:47 All right, P man. You know, like a real like, you know, of the time heavy hitter cast again, just like Rogue One heavy hitter cast of the time. And so, you know, I think, and it's also, like I said, it's a comedy heist or it's not. You're not going to watch at the enemy. Like, Oh well, they all died, OK. I think ultimately the reason I didn't decide to go with Dirty Dozen here is that tragic arc. And so I wanted to think of something a little bit that follows that path a little bit more. And I think I'm ultimately going to go with a movie, Brad, that is a war film that takes a ragtag group of soldiers who have come from oppressed backgrounds, just like in this movie that culminates in a a doomed raid on a Fort on a sandy beach.

1:18:37 That is the 1989 Civil War film Glory by Edward Zwick with Denzel Washington, Matthew Broderick. That movie's freaking slaps. It's a film we have never talked about on this podcast before. I don't know if you've ever seen Glory. No, I, I I have never seen glory. Oh man, oh so good dude. Tearjerker, but like a true dad movie, like a really good It's on AMC at at 2:30 in the afternoon on a Saturday. Yeah. But so it's phenomenal that alone. Yeah, 100%. Denzel wins his first Oscar for this movie, and it's it's really well deserved. I can't recommend it highly enough. So I'm going with glory.

1:19:20 Brad, that means you get to round us out here. Bob, I think I'm going to pick a two film arc. Are we OK with that? Sure. I am going to lean into the two elements we've kind of talked about. I think that the first, I think both movies do this really well. They establish a fight for humanity against all odds and there's no feasible chance that they ought to win this battle. And I think it nails the tragic arc. I'm talking Terminator and Terminator two baby. I'm so happy that I have, whether you acknowledge it or not, that I have made a Jim Cameron fan out of you over the course of this podcast.

1:20:12 The only thing, the only thing better is if you could have just said that you're pairing it up with True Lies. Oh dude, that's not a bad one either. I just I really wish that we can get a cut. Where Cassian and as he and Felicity Jones are like holding each other as the the nuclear bomb explodes around them. If he just like threw a thumbs up. Yeah, or it could just be a a complete mimic of that scene in True Lies where Jamie Lee Curtis and Arnold Schwarzenegger are making out with the bomb going off behind them. That's what we needed here. Very nice. All right, so I've picked Glory, Zach has picked Kelly's heroes, Brad has picked Terminators one and two guys, let's give this movie some final scores. I'm really struggling with this because like I said, I drove 7 hours to get home today, sat down on my couch and finished watching this movie that I had only been able to get through 20 minutes of in like 3 attempts over the last couple days. I'm tired.

1:21:15 I was a little bit distracted, but I think this movie just it, it just didn't hook me the way that it did the first time. And I think part of that is the theatrical images of Gareth Edwards, like, overwhelm you in a movie theater. And then once they've sunk it, like sunk in and you get to go home and watch them on a smaller screen. I think the flaws and the seams of this movie show a lot more. If you'd asked me walking out of that theater what I'd give it, I would say like an 8 1/2 probably. If you asked me today, I'd say like a six. So I think I'm going to split the difference and I'm going to give it a little bit of the benefit of the doubt because I do think that there are just quite a few moments that still absolutely rule. And I'm going to say a 7 1/2, but I don't really know if I can go higher than that, Brad.

1:22:02 Yeah, I mean, I still have my IMDb score for this. From when I first rated it, it was a 5 out of 10. I was really very unimpressed with this movie. This time around, I think I was sitting at A7 and then Darth Vader happened and I was like, that's a half point right there for sure. So I'm going to give it a 7 1/2 as well. Bob, I'm kind of right there with you. Watch Zach be like this is a 10 out of 10. What's wrong with you? I mean, that's definitely not, you know, like I said, I'm very, very aware of the faults, the flaws. You guys are right on though. Like the IMDb is right around here talking. I always like to say a solid B plus, but that would be an 85 or 8 1/2, wouldn't it?

1:22:47 So the Vader scene, that's an 11 out of 10. He definitely turned it up to 11 at the very least. I would say the actual film is, yeah, I hate to, I have to agree with you guys. It's a 7 1/2 out of 10. Like it's it's it's like most Star Wars movies that are great. They're 7 1/2 out of 10s. There's No 10 out of 10 Star Wars movie. Because this dude gets it. Thank you. If we could all just collectively agree that Star Wars movies are fun trifles for the most part then like the world would be a better place. It's this entire cult that has that has emerged around them that insists that they are like on par with the Godfather that I don't understand about Star Wars.

1:23:31 Like, let's just be happy that we have these fun little movies that, you know, with a giant dog man that growls at Han Solo and we get to shoot lasers and say pee pee. Like it's like, yeah. And also, The Godfather's not perfect. We'll go watch that film again. I mean, doesn't make sense. Let's let's just cool it on the spicy takes here, man. You've hit your quota for the day. All right, so it's a 7 1/2 for me and Brad and Zach. So we've got the weight of all three of us behind this one. But folks, if you disagree, let us know. You can find us on all of our social media accounts, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Tiktok, and YouTube at Film Whiskey. Or you can jump into the conversation. We are on Discord every single day talking to you guys, fans of the Film and Whiskey podcast.

1:24:23 If you'd like to join that conversation, you can find a link at the end of every single one of our show notes. Zach, open invitation for you to come back anytime you want. And I say that because. We probably do need a moderator for next week's episode. I was going to say I I've been listening, been listening along and I feel I can just hear Bob sort of like getting more and more broken as he talks about these movies and Brad sort of like Glee kind of rising and rising. So I I feel like there needs to be somebody in between to be like but Bob, no movies are perfect. It's OK And and I. Listen man, I'm in a very fragile place now and like I can feel Brad like circling for the kill.

1:25:08 The Hammer's ready, man. I don't think the hammer needs to come, man, because The Last Jedi is a really good movie. And to Zack's point, it doesn't have to be perfect to be really good. Yeah, but we will get into that next week, hopefully with Zack in tow to to back me up here when we talk about Rian Johnson's 2016 film The Last Jedi. So join us for that as we finally shake Star Wars off our back for the season. But until then, I'm Bob Book. I'm Brad G. And we'll see you next time.