Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl / Sam Houston 15 Year Bourbon

0:00 In 2003, director Gore Verbinski and star Johnny Depp gave the world a rip roaring adventure featuring pirates, curses and all sorts of early 2000 CGI. In 2024, we wonder if a Barton by any other name will smell as sweet. The film is Pirates of the Caribbean, Curse of the Black Pearl. The whiskey is Sam Houston 15 year bourbon. And we'll review them both. This is the Film and Whiskey podcast.

0:49 Welcome to the Film and Whiskey podcast, where each week we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey. I'm Bob Book. I'm Brad G. Brad, I am very excited for this week's movie, which is called Pirates of the Caribbean Colon, the Curse of the Black Pearl. And I'm excited for it, Brad, for a number of reasons. But this feels like in a lot of ways, a turning point for this season of the podcast. And folks, if this is your first episode with us, welcome aboard. This season, what we're doing is we're reviewing movies that were the highest grossing films of each year from 1988 to 2019. We are in the smack dab in the middle of the early 2000s here. And we've been teasing or I guess foreshadowing what is to come with the Disney and Marvel vacation of everything. And this feels like the first real foretaste of what is in store for us, Brad.

1:44 But it's also like a really interesting cross section of a movie because there's very little CGI in this movie comparatively, you know, to what is to come for us. Oh yeah. There's a lot, I mean, there's there's hand to hand combat, there's swashbuckling like it, there's old school movie making here, but it's also a Disney film based on Disney IP. And so it just really feels like we're kind of situating ourselves like at the at the apex here and we're going to tip down into Disneyville from here on out. Brad. Yeah. I mean, the thing that I noticed that felt like a foreshadowing of what was to come was the bloodless violence. This is a incredibly violent movie, Bob. Oh, yeah.

2:32 I mean, they are getting it in the fight scenes, which I love, really, truly enjoyed. But there's no blood. And like when there is, it's like a, oh, I just pulled my sword out of somebody and I'm cleaning it off, right? And it's like very obvious, like stage blood. But there's no actual like, blood spatters all over the decks of these ships, which, man, these things would be painted red because wow, Gore gets after it in this man. Yeah, I mean, this is a movie in which you see people get hit by cannonballs. And fun fact, Brad, I never knew this about cannonballs. All they really do is kind of lift you up off your feet and carry you across the room.

3:12 They don't actually blow you apart. No, that's it, man. They're. Just transportation devices. Really somewhat ineffective for how they're portrayed in most other films. Oh, man. OK, let's do this. Even before we get into the meat of our episode here, Brad, I want to situate ourselves in the year of Our Lord 2003, where the highest grossing film of the year was actually The Lord of the Rings, The Return of the King. But we've already reviewed that film. Are you sure we can't review that again? I would be happy to because. What a movie. It's a it's better than this movie. This is a good movie, but like, come on, folks, it's the Lord of the Rings we're talking about here. It. Sure is.

3:53 I think this is kind of a good comparison point to Return of the King, though, and and here's where I was going to go. It was a really big deal at the time this movie was released that a Disney movie under the Disney banner. It was not just something Disney distributed under like Buena Vista, which is like their their like video marketing team or Touchstone or anything else that Disney had their hands in. It was a Disney labeled movie that was PG13 and I remember like this is big. This is new for Disney. They never do PG13. And I think that as you watch the movie, there's definitely like some tension between how family friendly this wants to be and also how violent of a movie it is. And I think you've already kind of pinpointed they try to get around it with the bloodless violence. But I I, I definitely felt that tension kind of in the tone of the movie throughout the whole thing. Brad, do you remember where you were when this movie came out? And I mean, do you remember how big of a deal it was that it was APG 13 movie?

5:03 No and no. I am like the best podcast Co host you could have. Asked for? Well, that just means you have to take my word for it, which is even better. There's no questioning my knowledge it. Means that I have to I I will because it's not a point I feel. Strongly about, sure. Yeah, sure. I mean, I, I remember this movie coming out because I saw it in theaters and thought it was freaking rad. Like this movie ruled in 2003 and that, and that's in a year where Return of the King was like far and away the best movie of the year. I think everybody still absolutely loved this movie.

5:45 We've done quite a few movies from 2003, Brad. I mean, we've done Return of the King, we've done Mystic River. What else? What else came out this year that was rad? The the third Matrix movie that people don't really like came out this year. The School of Rock, 2003, baby. What a year. Perfect seven point O movie. Speaking of perfect Seven Point O movies, let's talk about Pirates of the Caribbean some more, Brad. And in order to do that, we're going to throw over to our first segment of the day, which we call Brad explains. Brad's going to give us the movie plots with only 60 seconds ticking on the clock, so let's go ahead and hear your take with this little segment that we call, Brad explains. Brad Explains is the part of the show where Brad breaks down the plot of the movie that he has just seen, often for the first time.

6:35 Brad, how long has it been since you last saw Pirates of the Caribbean? I think Haley and I watched it maybe like five or six years ago, so this is probably my third or fourth time watching the film. This is a movie that, you know, I've watched, I don't know, three of the sequels, 2, and then kind of gave up. I don't think I saw the last one that came out. But I don't know that I've actually gone back and watched this movie since 2003. Like, it's a movie that I've always liked and I'm familiar with, but I literally cannot remember the last time I saw it. So I think it may have been in the theater, you know, 21 years ago. Sheesh, that's a long time, Bob. Out of all the movies that you've returned to, why is this not on that list?

7:24 I don't know. Hey, man, this is not called Brad interrogates. This is called Brad explains. What are you doing? I'm. Just I'm curious, you, Bob, you return just so many movies. You have movies in your catalog that you've watched 20 times that are terrible movies like School of Rock. So what has kept you from watching Pirates of the Caribbean again? I don't know. And, and I was really, really excited to return to it this time because this film has kind of garnered A reputation over the last ten years or so. People have really re evaluated Gore Verbinski because it's been a long time since he's made a movie as, as this great Workman, like director of the early 2000s. And so I remember loving this film. I was super pumped to revisit it. I, I don't think there was ever a reason for me not revisiting it.

8:09 It just, you know, just didn't happen, man. You got to make room for School of Rock for the 20th time, I guess, man. All right, before you start your Brat Explain segment here, one point of clarification, and I think we are in agreement on this, Brad. The region that they are sailing around is called the Caribbean. But when you refer to this movie, you have to say Pirates of the Caribbean. You cannot call it Pirates of the Caribbean. Yeah, no, that's that is like not kosher, Yeah. Now you have to mispronounce it on purpose just because that's how this movie is pronounced. I don't make the rules though. Do you want to inform the the listeners about your views on Reese's?

8:52 No, there is no views on Reese's. The man's name was Reese. He made a peanut buttercup. They added an apostrophe S Reese's peanut Buttercup. There is no Reese. He did not make PCs. This is not even a discussion that needs to be had. I don't understand how people mispronounce it. I don't know. It sounds like you want to have a conversation about this, Bob. Brad, you have one minute on the clock to break down the plot of Pirates of the Caribbean, The Curse of the Black Pearl, and go. Pirates of the Caribbean The Curse of the Black Pearl is a film about pirates. Who would have thought, Bob?

9:32 In the Caribbean. Yeah, they are in the Caribbean. This movie follows a trio of characters played by Johnny Depp, Keira Knightley and Orlando Bloom, all of whom unite on an adventure to return a lost Spanish cursed coin to a chest so that a bunch of pirates can be freed of their curse. And And that's it. Yeah, I mean, pretty much. Yeah, I, I don't know. I don't know how to like get, get more granular without really getting into the weeds. So I think I'll just leave it there. So I'm not, I'm not going to lie to you, man.

10:14 Sometimes when you do, Brad explains. I take that opportunity to check my phone and make sure I don't, I'm not missing something more important than Brad explains Rude. And I typed in my passcode and I had Facebook open and there was a Facebook ad waiting for me as I scrolled from Peacock TV. And it's for a new television show called Orlando Bloom to the Edge. Orlando Bloom goes on a physical, mental and spiritual journey as he attempts extreme sports in this Peacock original. Let's go, dude. And the very first comment underneath that says thank goodness he can play himself. He certainly can't act as a different person.

10:59 And man, oh man, am I grateful for that comment because that is the perfect jumping off point. After Brad explains, we usually talk about performances. I would like to start with Orlando Bloom. We have seen him now in This is the fifth Orlando Bloom film we have reviewed on this podcast after The three Lord of the Rings and Elizabethtown. Say, not the worst movie we've seen him in. But maybe his worst performance. And I got to be honest with you, man, I as Legolas, he is like perfectly cast because he has just this this softness to his demeanor. And he's also like the 11th lead of that movie. Yeah, there's no personality. I'm gonna be honest with you dude, Orlando Bloom is not a good actor and I think it showed up pretty strongly here. He has great facial hair in this movie but other than that he is just a walking goatee and it's pretty bad dude. I am in like 80% disagreement with you. What?

12:01 I I think he's like solid in this movie. I like he is as solid as he can be because fun fact folks, Orlando Bloom not a good actor. I think that this movie covers up for a lot of his flaws by allowing him to be very self-righteous throughout this movie. And I think that like playing self-righteous is probably one of the easier things to do where he's just very sure of himself throughout the film. And I think that the little moments they give him where he's kind of questioning who he is and the things that he believes he gives like just enough with his eyes and with his body language that I'm like, OK, I, I kind of believe that you're going through something right now. So I, I, I think it's like a solid B minus performance. Here yeah, I think you know if you've ever looked at advanced statistics for sports, there's a there's a statistic called VORP which is value over replacement player, which is basically measuring how much value are you providing to your team above and beyond what we would consider like an entry level player at your sport.

13:16 So like the. Last guy off the bench. I think about that all the time for replacements for you as my Co host. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Luckily I'm knocking it out of the park in my podcast VORP. Usually Orlando Bloom is like right on the edge man of of being replacement level. I think you could slot in any number of young up and coming actors in 2003 into this role and it's roughly the same or better. You know what I mean? Like we've, we had a long conversation last week about Hayden Christensen. I don't know that you couldn't put Hayden Christensen here and it would be pretty much the same. He, you know, Orlando Bloom is just very, very pretty. But I don't really think there's much else going on there.

14:00 And you're right in this movie, you don't really need that much else because there are huge characters elsewhere. But. I mean, even even, like, the character of Norrington in a weird sense has a bigger personality than him, right? Like, yeah, like obviously he's this very restrained British commandant, but like, he, like the way he presents himself. I I love the performance of whoever plays Commander Norrington because he's incredible. I like how you couldn't be bothered to look up like the 4th lead of this movie. I love the performance of whoever plays him. Uninterested, Bob. His name's Jack Davenport, by the way. Yeah, Jack Davenport gives a great performance. Here's how little I remembered this movie. In the sequels to this movie, Tom Hollander plays like the evil British commander that is chasing Jack Sparrow. And he's so good.

14:56 He's so good I thought that he was in this. I don't even remember Norrington. Like I don't remember this character at all. The guy was fine. Jack Davenport is fine. But I was a little bummed out when at no point in this movie I saw Tom Hollander. Yeah, I mean that that's an example of VORP in movies, right? Like like, Jack Davenport does a solid job. I think he's like a solid BB plus performance with a decently well written character. Tom Hollander is going to knock it out of the park. Like, come on, man. Now, the reason that I bring up Orlando Bloom so quickly, I don't usually jump in with like, here's my least favorite person in this whole movie. Let's crap on him for 10 minutes. But it's because his counterpart in this movie, Keira Knightley, is so good in this movie, Brad.

15:41 And I think that I don't know that we've ever talked about, well, we did Pride and Prejudice. So we've talked about Keira Knightley, I think one time on the podcast. I really think she is one of our best working actresses and she has been at it for decades and decades now. We've become so used to her that we barely talk about her anymore. And I think her her good roles are starting to become few and far between. But every time I watch a movie with Keira Knightley in it, it's like, how was she not the biggest movie star in the world for at least 10 years there? She is so magnetic. And this performance in particular requires so much of her in terms of being, you know, demure and deferring to propriety, but then also like 10 minutes later, kicking ass. Like she has to be both Pride and Prejudice and she has to be Marian in Raiders of the Lost Ark. And I think go ahead.

16:35 She. She does it at age 17. That was my next point. When this movie comes out, she is 18 years old and she, more than perhaps anybody I can think of in the last 30 years, benefited from looking like she was 27 for 15 years. Like from the time she was 17 to the time she was 30 something, she looked like she was about 27 years old. So she could reasonably play the young romantic love interest in any movie. And I don't think people realize like when we've, you know, she was working in the 90s, but we didn't really see her in a breakout role until Bend It Like Beckham the year before this movie comes out. And she's 17 years old when that movie comes out. And so that means that she's, I think she's 38 now, right? Am I doing my math correctly?

17:25 She's either 38 or turning 39. She's not even 40 years old and she's been in our lives for over 2 decades as a leading lady. The only other person, the only other person I can think of that did that is Scarlett Johansson, which we talked about that with Lost in Translation. It's just, you know, I, I don't think we talk about Keira Knightley enough. She's one of my favorite actresses and she's so good in this role that she makes Orlando Bloom look even worse by comparison, I think. I I mean, I think she elevates everyone in this movie. I she's stunning. Keira Knightley. We need to watch more of her movies. Bob.

18:05 I've never seen a movie that she's in and not walked away been being blown away by her performance. She's. So good, dude. Yeah, and, and honestly, as you were talking about her, Scarlett Johansson was my like direct analogue for her. I, I, I feel like we have such a similar career pathway, but you know, Keira Knightley got her big break in a Disney film and, you know, Scarlett eventually gets into Disney films. So I I don't know if there's something to be said there for. It all comes back to the mouse, is what we're saying. Yeah, it sure does. No, but I'm even thinking now about like, OK, Scarlett Johansson and Keira Knightley kind of coming of age at the same time. 2 very different career paths, I feel like, but what separates them as actresses? And I think Scarlett Johansson, I think about a movie like Marriage story and what's so good about the way Scarlett Johansson acts in Marriage Story is that she's not trying to suppress emotion, but she tries to keep her emotions under control.

19:05 And so when she finally cries, it's like it's not just like the dam breaking, but it's you can see a person struggling to try to tamp down their emotion. And where's Keira Knightley? I've always felt like she just kind of nakedly wears her emotions out there like she always does the gasping for breath kind of cry and she's just she she's much more suited for material like this. And I think that's why we've always seen her in period pieces. She's so good in Jane Austen, the movie Atonement, maybe my favorite performance of hers. But there's something that seems like a throwback actress about Keira Knightley. I think she could have been the exact same kind of actress in like the 1930s and 40s and it would have fit so well.

19:49 I don't think her acting style is over like oversized, but I just think that there's like there's so much more emotion worn on her sleeve and I really like seeing that. It's kind of refreshing. Bob, I I think that brings up the the bigger question on everybody's minds why are Brits so much better at acting than Americans? Listen, man, it's times are tough over there. It's always Gray. It's cold their their food has no seasoning. That this makes them better actors and actresses. They've experienced the depth of human drama and emotion just in their everyday lives, and so yeah, it's easier to call that back up again. Because it's still the 1800s industrial revolution over there, and Keira Knightley was a poor child in the coal mines, barefoot and penniless. I'm pretty sure that you're just reading directly off of her IMDb bio at this point.

20:42 That's that sounds right to me, yeah. That's exactly what I was doing. All right, man, so Keira Knightley A+ plus plus in this movie. And I think, Brad, that this is another one of those performances that if we had talked about this movie in like the early episodes of film and whiskey, we'd be talking a lot more about Johnny Depp because that's the big showy performance here. And and we will and he's great. But I think we have, we've developed an appreciation for not just what I would call supporting characters, but lead characters who are like the straight man for the big outsized funny guy. You know what I mean? Like if Keira Knightley's not this good in her role, and even Orlando Bloom I think to a lesser extent in his role, Johnny Depp doesn't shine because no one is like tossing up the lob for him to knock out of the park.

21:31 Yeah, well, and that's the issue they run into with the later movies, right? They slowly force everyone out and now it's just Johnny Depp being asinine and ridiculous as Jack Sparrow and it it becomes way less charming when you don't have an Orlando Bloom playing this super earnest, pirate hating, justice loving, idealistic young man like that. Makes Depp so much more complex as a character because you you have him in between the character of Will Turner and Barbarosa. Like Barbarosa is the epitome of like the evil pirate and Jack Sparrow's, you know, somewhat in between there. But you you need those extremes on either side of him to make his character endearing and funny and believable as he kind of waffles between those two edges. I mean, I think as with most comedic characters, the character gets more and more broad as the movies go on to the point where, you know, like Brad, you and I are are big fans of How I Met Your Mother, like season 8 and Season 9, Barney is it?

22:44 It's like a little much. At that point, you're like, this isn't even a human anymore. It's like every time I accidentally stumble upon an episode of The Big Bang Theory and it just like it. It's just it makes me cringe because it's like, what? In what world do people think these characters are funny? These don't even resemble humans anymore. That's Jack Sparrow. Like he gets to a point where it's just the drunken swagger is it takes over everything. There's just nothing there anymore except Johnny Depp trying. Really hard. And to be clear, like you are talking about the later films, not this one. Yeah, I think that you can see the seeds of it a little bit in this film too. But then every time that I'm like, this is 'cause I'm watching this movie again for the first time in 20 years, remembering that I'm.

23:26 I'm pretty sure Johnny Depp gets an Oscar nomination for this movie, which is like huge. Like, I couldn't believe it. And so I'm going back to it now, like, OK, did we get caught up in the hype a little bit? Is this performance good? And every time that it would tip towards, OK, hey, in that scene he was a little too drunken rock star Johnny Depp. Then they would they would throw in a scene where he kind of dropped the ACT a little bit and you could see like, once his eyes kind of focus in on the person that he's talking to. And it's like, Oh, yeah, Johnny Depp is killing this dude. Like, there's a reason that this character became iconic that people still dress up as Jack Sparrow for Halloween. Like, it's just it's a great performance.

24:08 And I think more often than not, he knows how to walk the line and it doesn't tip too far into caricature. Yeah, yeah. I mean, he loses to Sean Penn in Mystic River, which is wild. That was that was a great performance. Is that my daughter in there? Come on dude, it's so good. Oh man, would Sean Penn have made a good Jack Sparrow? Is the question here. Oh. I think he takes it too seriously. Yeah, I don't. I don't think he does, actually. Let's let's put all of the actors in a leading role from 2004 Oscars.

24:48 Would Ben Kingsley make a good Jack Sparrow? No, but he would have made a great Barbarossa Ben Kingsley. Is a great actor all right? Next, would Jude Law make a good Jack? Sparrow. No, but he would have made a good will. Turner. Yeah. Oh, he would have made a hell of a Will Turner. So much more charming. All right. Last one. And I think the answer to this is unequivocally yes, for all the wrong reasons. Would Bill Murray make a good Jack Sparrow? I want that movie right now I. Want that movie? So bad. All right, man, maybe this is a good point for us to talk about Jack Sparrow's counterpart in Barbarossa, played by Oscar winner Geoffrey Rush.

25:34 Now, here's the great thing about Barbarossa. He gets more and more villainous as the movie goes on, like when he first kidnaps, like quote, UN quote kidnaps Elizabeth and they're kind of conversing over an apple in his office. You're like, oh, I understand this guy's motivations totally. And then as the movie goes on, they need him to be more of a Dick. So they kind of just make him more of a Dick. This is not even though he has like a monkey on his shoulder and is speaking with a piratey growl and says yar and stuff. It's actually not like a big scene chewing performance like he actually moderates and and I guess modulates would be the better word, his performance to allow Johnny Depp to be even more wild than he is.

26:21 And I think by comparison, it seems very grounded. And I just want to say like, that's why Geoffrey Rush in this movie and in all the later movies works so well is because he doesn't. He's not competing against Johnny Depp in who can have the bigger performance. And that's the only reason that things stay balanced here. Dude, I came in here ready to say I think that Geoffrey Rush might be the best agreed actor in this movie. Agreed. Like he is incredible. And I I think that he's technically, I think he's in the second movie, he's replaced by the one and only Bill Nighy in the second film, which is feels like the perfect succession, right? Like Geoffrey Rush just has this talent for staying grounded in the midst of the most, like, performance you have ever seen in your life.

27:17 And I don't, I think I need to watch the movie about eight more times to figure out how he does it because there were so many movements where, you know, the the trailer fodder. When he's like this, you know, this isn't a bedtime story anymore. You're in one. Yeah, and it's like so over the top. And yet he's always holding something back. And I, I don't know how he does it. Bob it. It's an incredible performance. Man, I'm so happy that we're in agreement on that one because I like, do I think Johnny Depp deserved an Oscar nomination? Sure. I don't think it's like it's certainly not an egregious looking nomination, but it's not the best performance in this movie.

28:02 It's the showiest performance. And I think what Geoffrey Rush is doing is actually much more dialed in and much more complex. Like it's it's hard to do this character without just becoming like a John Malkovich villain from like the late 90s and just going completely over the top with, you know what I mean? Like they he could have just said, I'm going to sink my teeth into this thing and we're I'm going to get a shouting match with Johnny Depp and we'll see who comes out on top. And he, he just, he zags. And I really like it man. Yeah, when you when you're saying it could have been an old villain performance, it almost feels like it. He could have gone the Tim Curry route and just been so ridiculous in the role. But man, like you said, it is such a grounded performance and he gives you all of the reasons for why he's doing what he's doing.

28:56 I I think what it made me think of was how our actions have consequences for our souls, unlike. Oh, you mean like the actual the character? The character. I thought you were like Geoffrey Rush's performance made me realize that, yes. That is exactly. You had a spiritual experience watching this movie, man. I'm sorry. Please continue. Yeah. I just mean, I mean, the performance is a huge part of it. The his ability to stay grounded is what kind of helped me realize that the slide into being more and more villainous isn't a result of the scripture saying, hey, we need him to be villainous.

29:38 It it feels like an honest character arc of, yes, we're just trying to get back to being real human beings. And that seems like a good motivation. But then you realize as the movie goes on, like he's also spent the past 1020 years murdering, raping, pillaging, like all of the evil things that the the skeletal interior of his soul is who he truly is at this point. Yeah, it's just it's a great, it's a great character and it's a great performance. All right, man, I think we're in a really good spot to press pause here. I want to talk a little bit about the fact that this movie is based on a roller coaster, like the the existing story was just roller coaster and they made this movie out of it.

30:29 We'll talk about that when we get back from break. But what do you say we try some Sam Houston 15 year? Let's get to it. All right, today we are checking out Sam Houston 15 Year Bourbon. Now, I was trying to think of something clever to connect the Caribbean to Texas, where Sam Houston famously is from, and I can't think of a single thing. So Brad, we're going to pretend like I had some clever connection, but honestly, it was just time for us to drink some Sam Houston. This juice is from Barton Distillery. It's distilled under a different label, similar to the Calumet that we've been having for the last few weeks, Brad, and also similar to those.

31:16 This is a very well aged bourbon. We have gone on record saying that generally speaking, we don't love bourbons that are aged beyond, say, 10 years because they get really, really, really oaky and I'm a little bit nervous about that today. Yeah, this is a heck of an aged product, coming in at only 103 proof, which is usually a pretty good sign. Well aged products in the bourbon category that come in a barrel proof have a chance to just like, leave oak on your palate for the next four days. Yeah, when I see that this is only 103 proof, I like two thoughts come to mind immediately.

31:56 And one is like, is this just too much flavour wise at barrel proof and or was so much of it lost to the Angel share over 15 years that they had like physically had to dilute it to have enough product to distribute? And so like, I mean, it's probably a little bit of both, but I'm also glad to see that it's not like 118 proof or something because honestly, I just think diluting it a little bit might help kind of tamper down some of those insanely Okie notes we get. Yeah, but I, I think, I think it's worth just jumping in here, Bob, as I got into the nose on this, I got some really nice dark cherry notes.

32:37 The vanilla really came through strongly. There's caramel. It had a really nice, like fresh bread kind of vibe to it. A a little bit of, I don't know, cacao. Like it's a It's a relatively nice complex nose that I gave an 8 out of 10 to. Yeah, Brad, similar to a couple of those calumettes. This doesn't have any wheat in the mashbill, but it reminds me of a weeded bourbon on the nose. And I think that might be like the interplay between the rye grain and the oak and how much oak we're getting on this. But I definitely get those notes of cherry that you're talking about. It reminds me of those cherry cola notes that we get on some of our favorite Rebel products. For instance.

33:20 I get a lot of red apple peel on this as well. But other than that, I think your notes are spot on. There's a ton of vanilla here. The oak is nice and it it is more of like a toasted oak than a charred oak, but it comes across softer and it's not it doesn't have that sort of soured oak scent to it. I like this a lot and I'm hoping that it portends good things here. I'm going to give it an 8 out of 10 on the nose. When I got into the palate, it stays in that kind of fruity vein for me. It turned into like a bit of a BlackBerry currant kind of flavor, but the, the cacao stuck in there that that was a notable note for me.

34:00 But other than that, Bob, it is oak on oak on oak and there's enough other flavors going on here that I, I enjoyed it. I think it's a solid whiskey, but I, I came down a little bit from the nose. I'm at a 7.5 in the palate category. I kept trying to piece my thoughts together and I thought I'd landed on something and then it kept going. The flavor, I mean, it kept going and then I had to revise my thoughts and then the flavor kept going. And that's not a good thing here, Brad. So like I took a sip and I'm with you. It was like really nice, really pleasant. Still that red apple peel for me, like a red delicious apple. I went to swallow and it had that nice dusty kind of sawdusty flavor to it and a pleasant amount of oak. When I swallowed it, it was like, it was a little smoky and a little bit bitter, but it was almost like the bourbon equivalent of a peated Scotch.

34:57 I was like, OK, I can still rock with this. It's not my favorite thing. But, you know, sometimes we like the fruitiness on a peated Scotch and then we swallow it and then there's the peat and it just is what it is. And then it just kept going. It turned really bitter. It got really ashy. There's like a cigarette ash kind of thing going on. And then it got more bitter and more herbal and like vegetal almost. And man, I just wish that they look. I wish I could have put a hard cut off on when my tongue stopped tasting because it was going really well and then it it definitely tapered off. I'm going to give it a 6.5 on the flavor. Oh man, yeah, I I think that the finish for me is is going to be at the 6.5.

35:43 It just there's some there's some stuff going on on the pallet that just slowly dissipates into the black hole vortex that is oak like that. Like this is what Matthew McConaughey got stuck in in in Interstellar. Like, like it. It's just the oak from all of these 1520 thirty year bourbons. Yeah, man. And I have to be honest with you, I think that the 1st 60% of this tasting experience was the best one of these that we've had so far. I really liked where this was going. And then it was just like it, it would kept piling on itself. And I just want to be able to shake this Burbin and say like, quit while you're ahead.

36:30 You, you had a good thing going here. I'll give it a 6.5 again on the finish. It's not terrible. And once you know what you're getting, the 2nd 3rd sip are not unpleasant, but it's just it could have been so much better. Yeah, I gave it A7 on balance. I I think that this is a well made whiskey that has lots of good qualities. It's just overwhelmed by the age. So I, I don't know where are you at on balance? This is hard because I don't think that the nose tipped me off about how oaky this was going to get, but the oak was definitely there, you know what I mean? Like I don't think a nose can tip off how sour the oak is going to taste.

37:14 So like is it well balanced? I think it might be pretty well balanced and it's a 15 year bourbon like this. This all everything we've said makes sense for a 15 year bourbon. Nothing seems out of the ordinary here. It's just something that we don't personally love. I think I'll give it an 8 out of 10 on balance. Like I I can't hold it against the whiskey that it does what it is supposed to do at this age. Sure. I can, however, hold it against this whiskey that it costs a whole bunch of money. I think MSRP on this Brad is around $160. I'm seeing 16999. And then when you're actually trying to find the particular batch we're drinking, which is the Indiana batch #2 I mean, it's like at least $300.00 at this point. So I don't know if you want to consider it our in our new premium category or not.

38:06 Yeah. Bob, Bob, this is you are not going to find this for less than $200. Yeah. It's not worth $200, Brad. No, no, in in the category of premium, I think I would give this about a four and a half like I like. I think it's decent. I don't think it's a terrible value for a premium whiskey. I just think that there's so many better options out there for you in that premium category. We were just talking to the owner of this bottle of whiskey who generously sent us a sample of it, our friend Wes, and he was basically saying that the way that he likes to price out things he buys on the secondary is the $10 per year rule. So at 15 years old, $150.00 for this bottle would be about right.

38:58 So I think that if we are pricing it at 150, I'd give it a better score. The fact that you can't get it for less than at least 200 now, it's just not worth that much. I'm going to give it a yeah, I'm with you, man. I'll give it a 4.5 on value and that takes me to a 33.5 out of 50. Are you in the same place as me? Yeah. I sure am exact same score. I love it, man. So yeah, that was a pretty easy one. Brad, we're at a 33 1/2. If you were just scoring out like what's in the glass, does this drink like a 35 out of fit? Like would you recommend the juice itself, Brad? Oh yes, I, I think that what is here in the glass is unique and interesting and somewhat complex on the nose and then slowly that that complexity just it's a black hole, man. I I, I think that it's solid whiskey, but it gets lost in the age statement.

40:00 I have nothing else to say, man. Wes, thank you again for your insanely oaky aged bourbons. But Brad, if I can just be frank with you, man, this is just not my. This is not my wheelhouse. No, no, nor mind Bob. I And that's crazy because like, you're the one who loves bourbon and I, I wish that I could say better things about this, but here I am. It's fine 33.5 I will not recommend it if you find it at a bar and you know what you're getting into like go for it spend your money but I I wouldn't. Go for it, Spend your money. I love it, man. All right, let's get back into talking about Pirates of the Caribbean.

40:41 What do you say? Well, let's get to it. All right, everybody. That was Sam Houston 15. Should have been Sam Houston 8 and I think that they would have had a hell of a product. Oh, it would have been great, man. The end. Yeah, I'd have nothing else to say there. That's it. That's all folks. You know what is a great product, Brad? Is it Canada's favorite segment? 2 facts and a falsehood. 2 facts and a falsehood. Brad is going to try to stump your ball 2 all right. And what is wrong? 2 facts and a falsehood. 2 Facts and a Falsehood is the part of the show where Brad presents me with three items as fact about the making of this movie, one of which is a complete lie.

41:32 Brad, right now I am sitting at 10:00 and 6:00 on the season because I got 2 unfortunate losses a few weeks ago when our guest LED me astray. This is our 16th episode of Season 8, so after today we're halfway. Through the season, halfway through, it always kind of jumps up on me by surprise. I didn't realize we were already that far into the Season 8. What are your thoughts on on the first half of season 8? Think that I've had a movies we've watched. Yeah, I the 90s were a wild time. Like for a few years there I was just kind of like above average on an Independence Day. Men in Black, but like man, true lies the fugitive.

42:13 Come on man, it was a hell of a decade. I can't remember exactly where I heard it, but there's a a writer named Chuck Klosterman and he was on a podcast once and he was talking about this idea of kind of like how with increasing technology, culture actually doesn't change as much anymore. Like you think that things speed up now, but things that were made 20 years ago feel pretty much the same as they do now. Whereas in in prior generations, things accelerated so rapidly. Think about movies from the 40s versus the 60s versus the 80s. And I think that this is kind of what I'm seeing here. Like we got distinct phases of movie making between the Rain Man's and the Batman's of the world to even The Fugitive.

43:00 And then in the late 90s, your Independence days, your men and blacks. And now it kind of feels like this is the last gasp of old movie making and pretty much everything from Transformers through End Game is going to feel like the exact same thing. And so like, I will miss the variety. I think that's what that's what's been really nice about the first half of this season is we've gotten a ton of variety here. You do you want to hear my my theory, Bob? Let's hear it. I think that the Internet has homogenized humanity. And like, we thought that it was going to be this great thing that allowed us to discover each other's uniqueness. But at the end of the day, advertisers were like, oh, you mean I can get dad on all these people and figure out what the most amount of people are attracted to so I can make money off of them?

43:49 Like, those are the things we're going to make. And like, that's that right there. Death of creativity, Bob. Yep, as we review a movie based on a roller coaster, Brad, hit me with your two facts and a falsehood. Fact #1 When casting for the role of Will Turner, it was down to Orlando Bloom or Heath Ledger. They made a mistake. No commentary here Bobble, just the facts. Verbinski chose Bloom because he knew that he was in the Lord of the Rings trilogy and felt that he would be a more bankable choice. Fact #2 In the scene where Keira Knightley sets fire to the rum on the deserted island, the smoke rose so high that the Grenadine Coast Guard came to investigate. Fact #3 When returning home from a night shoot on one of the I was Is it Caribbean or Caribbean? What are we going with?

44:48 Yeah, dealer's choice, man. No, I'm just going to start start over. Fact #3 When returning from a night shoot on one of the Caribbean islands, Keira Knightley's boat struck a reef and went down. The only people aboard were Knightley, her mother and the boat skipper, all of whom escaped unharmed and were rescued within a few hours. I think it's either two or three. And I say that because like I'm, I'm just going to assume that what I said earlier is correct that you could slot in anybody for Orlando Bloom. So I have to assume they were looking at a number of different actors for this part. Heath Ledger makes sense based on his age. So then it's like, OK, did the fire signal call people over to investigate?

45:34 One would think that when they're burning trees, they would have gotten some permits. So I don't know #2 seems suspicious #3 is also like, I, you know who, like, cool story, bro, You know what I mean? So that seems like it could be a Brad G special. Brad G Original. I was gonna say #3 is the falsehood. That one just kind of stuck out to me, is the falsehood. But the more I think about it, the more it doesn't really make sense that people would come to investigate. So I'll go out on a limb and I'll go against my gut and I'll say #2 is the falsehood, Brad? Bob, you have done it again, proving to yourself that your gut is a terrible, terrible thing to follow because #2 is the falsehood.

46:19 All right, yeah, I just don't think Disney would mess around with like, let's burn Caribbean islands and see what happens without a permit. Just seems like the worst lawsuit waiting to happen. Be a good time. That's funny. All right, so tell. Me that you haven't heard of Dumber things happening on the set of Hollywood movies. Oh 100% man. Then them not getting a a permit, I mean heck one of my favorite movies of all time, charade didn't file their patents properly. And so the moment the movie came out and hit public domain like, and that wasn't in like 1920, that was 1965. I was just reading a a fact, man, I wish I could remember the movie, but it was like a movie.

47:09 It was Lawrence of Arabia. And I think it was like, maybe it was the costumer, you know, remember how beautiful those robes on Lawrence were? And it was like the costumer wasn't nominated for an Oscar on Lawrence of Arabia because somebody forgot to file the paperwork on time and so they missed the deadline. And it's like that movie won every other Oscar, was nominated for, and the costumer just didn't get nominated. Dude that you? Can you imagine how mad you would be? Oh my gosh. Come again? I spent all that time and effort and I'm not going to get recognized by my peers because you didn't file paperwork. Crazy, dude. All right, let's get back into talking about Pirates of the Caribbean.

47:49 Brad, very famously, this movie is based on a roller coaster. Now my first question to you, have you been to either Disney World or Disneyland and have you ridden the Pirates of the Caribbean ride? As I said earlier, Bob, no and no, I don't. Remember you saying that? I'm sorry, I must have been scrolling and looking at the Orlando Bloom. Reality show. It was a answer to a different question that you asked. Oh, OK. But my answer to most of your questions whenever you ask two in a row to me are no and no. You've never been to Disney? Not a single time in my life, no, no, when, when I was growing up, my dad worked in the construction, in the trades and in Cleveland, you pretty much get laid off from like December to like late February, early March. And so our vacation, you know, everybody else would come back in the fall from summer break being like, yeah, we went to like Hilton Head or Disney.

48:50 And I would come back from Christmas break and be like, I went to Iowa to visit family and it was like 20�� colder and like 20 more inches of snow. So that was my vacation. OK, so the answer is no, you've not been to Disney The. Answer is no, but the story. That's both, man. The the real pirates were the friends we made along the way. I think that's what you're saying here, am I right? All right, so I've never ridden Pirates of the Caribbean. That might be one that's only at Disneyland, if I if I remember correctly, anyway, it's very famous. You go on the thing. The pirates are animatronics, but they're also spooky. I don't know how much story they give you when you're riding the ride.

49:34 Like, is there a narrator? Are they telling you about this curse? Who's to say? But apparently Disney in the early 2000s thought this is a great idea for adapting into a fully fledged movie. And I remember thinking, this is the dumbest idea for a movie I've ever like. Even as a early teenager, I was like, this seems desperate. Like, what are we doing here, folks? And then the trailer came out and I was like, huh, maybe that's not going to be so bad. And then I remember opening up the the movie. I used to look at the movie reviews like every week in the newspaper, and it got 3 1/2 out of four. And I was like, oh, this might end up being a good movie. And you know, fun fact it was, it was a good movie, but I just can't believe like we talk now about how soulless and hollow the adapting all the IP stuff is.

50:26 Disney's been doing this for a long time, folks. And like, I just, it's so funny to me that we now forget that they just based a whole movie off of like what if roller coaster was movie? I mean, it is that man. I I am loathe to say it, but I might defend Disney a little bit here. Like, is that the worst thing to do when coming up with a movie? No, I don't think so. I do think, though, that like, it's a really, it's a balancing act. And it's one that that Gore Verbinski really nailed and all the writers on this movie too. Because you want to replicate, I guess what I'd say is like the feeling of being on a roller coaster. You want this to be like a rollicking adventure, but it's not really related to like you are on a roller coaster.

51:14 There's not like a lot of POV shot like this could be filmed like a first person shooter, you know what I mean? And I'm really glad they didn't do that because they took the experience of like, why do we go on a roller coaster? Why do we want to go on a roller coaster that's kind of spooky? And they're like, let's expand that into a movie going experience rather than just like we have to actually replicate what it's like being on a ride because I, I feel like there's a version of this movie that is that and that would have sucked. Well, and and that's the beautiful thing about what we got here is that I don't know if I have seen many action adventure movies that have perfect pacing the way that this film does. Like walking away from this viewing of the movie. I kept, as the movie went on, I kept waiting for the slow part where it dragged right, 'cause every action adventure movie has the slow part in the middle where it drags a little bit and you have to put up with a little bit of exposition or like explaining why the bad guys are doing what they do. And even when those things kind of come around in this movie, they are so well done and they're so action oriented and they they thrust you through the movie at such a fast, breakneck pace that it feels like you are on a roller coaster without any of the gimmicky things a lot of

52:44 directors would do if they were told make this like a roller coaster. Yeah, they replicate it through good movie making, not through gimmicks. Yep. Yeah, man, it's so nice to be in agreement with you, Brad, but I wonder what kind of what kind of. The heartburn Is that because of the heartburn that you get when we disagree? I do wonder, like, what kind of audio are we producing today? Because we're both just like, Yup, Yup. And then there's five seconds of silence and then we're like, oh, I guess we have to move on to the next thing now. We're not arguing. It's like Skip Bayless and Stephen A Smith, just like agreeing for a whole episode. Yeah, that would be incredible. Worst first take episode of all time. All right, man, So what?

53:27 What else have we not hit yet about this movie that you want to make sure we discuss, because I'm pretty much tapped out. It's a really good movie. It's fun. I'm not sure if it's the classic that it's been re evaluated as, but I'm also not going to I'm not going to say many words against it here. So Brad, you know, I think you're a little bit higher on this movie than me. What am I missing here still? The soundtrack, Bob. My guy, Hans. Dude. Well First off, technically credited. I don't think Hans is credited as the composer for this movie. 'Cause he steals everything, man. Well I've I've heard that said to be true.

54:09 What I do know is that the entire like Pirates theme is based off of like 1 little bar from Gladiator. You know what I'm talking about, yeah. 'Cause he mentioned it in the Gladiator episode. Yes, he and he took that and he gave it to his minions and they turned it into the entire pirates soundtrack and it freaking rocks. I like any good action movie adventure movie needs great music and like I'm I'm even thinking about like the theme to spider man from 2002.

54:49 Yep, like that theme freaking rocks and it makes that movie incredible. And I think the same thing is true here. Yeah, this this has this really charming, I don't want to call it cheesiness to it because it's like, it's like this big bright, percussive, almost like overbearing soundtrack. And I think that if this movie was being made today, the soundtrack would sound very different. A it would have no recognizable themes because that's just how movies get made now. But like, it'd be much darker. It would be much kind of more ambient and in the background. And this movie's like, no, every time you see British soldiers punching skeletons in the face, we're going to throw in like, it's just, it's so big and brash that you you have to respect the 2003 Ness of it and like it.

55:44 I miss movies like that. I miss when movies were like fun swashbuckling adventures that did not take themselves too seriously and didn't feel like they had to double down on being grounded or gritty or realistic. This is a movie about a roller coaster where pirates turn into skeletons. Like, what are we? Like just have fun. And, and I think the soundtrack embodies that. It's not taking itself too seriously. It is a really cool theme, but like it's a little cheesy and I love that about it. Yeah, it, it's cheesy in all the right ways. And I think that the same, like that can be said for the whole movie.

56:25 Like when I think about Geoffrey Rush's performance, it's cheesy, but like in all of the right ways, hitting all of the right notes. I I think the same thing for Orlando Bloom and Keira Knightley. Like they're all over the top in just the right ways that keep you at the edge of your seats and engaged. This is one of the true summer blockbusters. And I, I know that you might not put this movie in the, the classic category, but I, I think you should because it, it falls in that perfect. Like this is just a summer blockbuster that you could go see like 3 months in a row once a month and be more than happy that you went to see it three times. No, I'm with you, man.

57:14 And I think that that's kind of what I was trying to get at at the beginning of the episode, talking about how this is a cross section of a lot of different groups of moviegoers. Like it. It appeals to your weird Disney adults who are just big on all Disney IP. It appeals to like movie critics who just like to say stuff rules sometimes. It like this is, for all intents and purposes, it's like a modern classic. I don't really know many people who talk down on this movie. It's just a fun movie. I mean, there there's even some horror elements to the start of the film that like had that aren't like incredibly well done, but they're they're like just effective enough that I like I'm in.

57:54 It's scary. Well, Brad, I think that that's actually a really good jumping off point to get to our last segment of the day, which we call let's make it a double. We're near the end of the episodes. Oh, thanks for listening to the film and Whiskey Show. Let's pair another film with this one, even if it's struggling. It's a final segment of the day. Now let's make it a double. Let's Make It a Double is the part of the show where we pick a movie to pair up with this one to make the perfect double feature. Brad, would you like to go first today? Oh, I think I will, Bob. I am going to stick in the same realm of film, action, adventure and I am going to go with a a little known movie. Not many people saw it that definitely not as good as Pirates of the Caribbean, but I think you'd have a fun night with a double feature. 1998's The Mask of Zora. I love it dude, what a fun movie. Yeah, like, like both movies, just really fun, really earnest movies that I think anybody could enjoy. I'm kind of similar to you.

58:59 I'm I'm waffling between 2:00 and I I'll give the one that's like the more film guy first. There's a movie that came out the same year that I think was nominated for best picture called Master and Commander. It's a Russell Crowe movie about him sailing on a ship as part of the British naval fleet. It freaking slaps. It's so good. And I haven't seen Master and Commander I think probably since the same time I saw Pirates of the Caribbean. I'd love to revisit it. Did not get a chance to before recording today, but I think based on the tone of the movie I actually just watched, I'm going to pair this up with 1999's The Mummy, a movie that is equal parts rip roaring good time and goofy masterpiece like. And that's kind of the tone that this is going for. It's it's goofy.

59:49 It's just a fun little movie that's PG13. So when you see it when you're 11, you feel like you're watching a movie for grown-ups and then you watch it as a 30 year old and you're like, oh, this is a movie for 11 year olds, but it's still good. Like that's that's The Mummy and that's this movie. And I would have such a blast watching both of those movies together. Yeah 100% man I have never seen the mummy but everything I've heard about it would confirm what you are saying. It's so good, man. I might prefer The Mummy to this just a little bit, but they're like, if you've seen this movie, you have an idea of what it's like to watch The Mummy. Just a just a fun time dude. Yeah, no, I'm, I'm in man.

1:00:30 I would 100% watch that. All right, let's get to final scores here. I think I'm going to be just slightly lower than you. I was really looking forward to revisiting this because I've seen so many people talk about, hey, I went back and watched Pirates of the Caribbean and that movie holds up like crazy. And I went back and watched it and I loved it. Like I had such a fun time watching it. But I did have a little bit of that. This is a movie for 11 year olds that was marketed to like grown-ups. And that tension between it, it doesn't quite want to embrace being a violent film for adults, but it also doesn't quite want to embrace being a bloodless film for kids. It didn't always work together. It felt like those two things were at odds, you know, a few times in the movie for me, and I think that's what brought it down just a little bit in my estimation. But overall, man, what, what can you say negatively about this movie?

1:01:24 It's an 8 out of 10 for me, Brad. I yeah, I'm at a 9 1/2 out of 10. Wow 9.5. And I, I think a large reason for that is how entertaining this was. Like if we scored this out in categories like cinematography and sound and entertainment value and things like that, it would get a 10 out of 10 on entertainment for me. I like, like I said man, I kept waiting for it to get boring and it never did. It kept me absolutely glued to the screen. I was exhausted and was planning on watching it over two nights and couldn't stop watching and watched it all in one night. Like that's how much I enjoyed this movie. I I think this is a modern classic and I I think that Pirates of the Caribbean deserves all of the the laudatory reviews that has gotten. All right, so there it is.

1:02:22 I gave it an 8, Brad gave it a 9.5, which puts us out at an 8.75 out of 10. But we'd like to know what you think is, first of all, we're in agreement here, Brad. This is the best of the Pirates movies, right? Oh, far and away. I think the second one has cooler effects, but this is the best movie. Folks, you can disagree with me if you want, but let us know what you think of The Curse of the Black Pearl. You can find us on all of our social media accounts, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube at Film Whiskey. Yeah, or you can follow us on Discord. We are on there every single day talking to you guys, fans of the Film and Whiskey podcast. So if you'd like to join the conversation, you can find a link to the Discord at the end of every single one of our show notes.

1:03:09 I don't know that there will ever be a harder pivot, A weirder left turn thematically. Then this week to next week in our podcast, Brad, because next week we, I don't even want to say it, man, it feels weird. Next week we're watching Mel Gibson's 2004 film The Passion of the Christ, and boy oh boy, is that is that different than than Undead pirates? It's basically the same movie, yeah. I mean come on, you know, fun fact, there is not a roller coaster dedicated to this event at Disney. Yet could you, could you imagine that roller coaster? The same people who built the Ark down in Kentucky are going to build that roller coaster. The resurrection roller coaster.

1:03:55 All right, folks, join us next week for the Passion of the Christ. Until then, I'm Bob Book. I'm Brad G. And we'll see you next time.