Oscar Nominations Reactions and American Single Malt: What to Know

0:00 On today's Film and Whiskey, I'm talking with our friend Daniel Zwayo about the Oscar nominations. Then we're thrown over to an old friend in Old Line Spirits to talk about what it means that American Single Malt is now an officially designated category of whiskey. That's all ahead on the Film and Whiskey podcast. Well, hey everybody, welcome into another special bonus episode of Film and Whiskey. I'm Bob Book and I am flying solo this evening on Oscar nominations night.

0:50 Folks, if you pay any attention to the Oscars, you know that this is about the second biggest day in the Oscars season. The nominations have been announced. They were delayed by about a week from the fires that are raging through LA, but we finally got the Oscar nominations. There are definitely some surprises. There are definitely some omissions. I would say I don't like using the word snub. And then maybe I'll get into that with our guest today. But we're bringing back on our resident Oscar critic, Indiana Pacers fan and current like 5th place member of our film and whiskey fantasy basketball. Third, Oh, third. I'm sorry, third place in fantasy basketball. It's our friend. Brad, right now? Oh, perfect. That's what everybody wants. It's our friend Daniel Zwayo.

1:33 Daniel, how are you? I'm good. How about yourself? Sorry for the interruption. You're so No, no, no. I listen, I need to I need to do fact checking for my intros. I was going off fives and gut feel and it's important that we get the the records and and draft order straight for our fantasy basketball for next year. So thank you for the correction. Daniel's joining us this evening, A, because he's a great guy and I like talking to him. But B, he just wrote a piece for rodgerebert.com today about the Oscar nominations. He's been writing pieces for the last couple weeks leading up to the Oscars. He is our resident Oscar critic and he knows a lot more about this stuff than I do. So we're going to pick Daniel's brain a little bit.

2:14 I guess. Let's start with this, Daniel, looking back on 2024 as a movie year, and I don't want to hear you just say the movie critic thing, which is like every year is a good year for movies if you know where to look. Was 24 a good year for movies or not? Yes, because every year is a good year for movies. It's it's 2024 was not as good of the year as 2023, which is the most obvious comparison because those are the last two years. 2023, I think legitimately had the single best, best picture lineup we've probably ever had, or at the very least the best since 1975. So it's easy to look at 2024 and say, well, the previous year was better.

2:57 And yeah, that's true, but that's because the previous year was abnormally great. That's fair. That's fair. And I do think that it's a little bit unfair for me to be comparing it so much to 23 when you have films like Oppenheimer, like The Holdovers, like Anatomy of a Fall or Past Lives. But I just couldn't help but think through most of my movie viewings this year. Like, damn, if The Holdovers had just held out for one more year, it could have absolutely dominated everything this year. It, it feels like a year that was ripe for something to come along and really assert itself. And I would say pretty much every movie that's been in contention this year is either too divisive to get that consensus or the consensus around it has just been that it's like an 8 out of 10 and not anything better than that. I I just don't feel like we had anything breakthrough as a as an all timer movie this year.

3:50 Well, I have a question about what you just said. And this could be that it's not an either or it could be a both things are true at once. But I wonder, are the films actually divisive, or have people just gotten more divisive in their reactions to things? Yeah, I, you know what, I think this year is probably a banner year for Film Twitter steering Award season more than maybe any other year. And I think my example, this is complete conjecture and conspiracy theory now, but when when Dune Part 2 came out early in the year, you know, end of February, early March, I think is when that movie came out. And it was just getting so much love and appreciation and awards prognosticator saying like it's going to dominate the Oscars. And then within about a month you started hearing, well, I wonder if The Academy Is going to honor this film because historically they haven't nominated second chapters in a trilogy and maybe they'll hold off. And I felt like it almost became a self fulfilling prophecy that enough people told Academy members through their various channels and podcasts and everything else, hey, you probably won't nominate this that it that it ended up not really getting any nominations.

5:05 I'm I'm truly shocked, especially with Dune and the studio behind it, that it has not made more of an awards push this season. Yeah. I mean, I got Best picture and I got a handful of craft categories. I think it ended up with five or six nominations. I think a few things are happening there. I mean, first of all, I think that I apologize if I'm not remembering the timeline correctly, but I think that when Dune Part 2 came out, there wasn't a third yet. And it was like a week later that then they they announced the third movie. And so I think what may be happening there is that people thought it would be a major Oscar player because people thought it was movie 2 out of two. And then all of a sudden it became movie 2 out of 3. And so people rolled back their expectations.

5:45 I would also say that, well, yeah, you're right that people were saying that in March. Anyone's saying that in March is just wrong because you can never say any movie is going to dominate the Oscars of March because we don't know what the contenders are going to be yet. It's like, it's like me predicting who's going to win the NBA title three years from now and I don't know who the rosters many teams are going to be. Right. Well, there is a movie that I think won the audience award this year at was it Sundance or it's called the. The life of Chuck. Yeah, that was it. Toronto. I saw that in Toronto. I really liked it. It got great reviews and it just got held. It never came out this year. I ended up we we participate in this thing thing for Vulture called the movies Fantasy League. I ended up drafting it for my team because it was a steal because no one knew if it was going to get released.

6:28 But I think that just goes to show even towards the end of the season, you know, in September, we had no idea if somebody was going to pick this up and try to give it a push for Oscar season. Yeah. All right, Daniel, let's get into talking about the nominations themselves. So this is where I wish we had Brad present because Brad, a host of a movie podcast, is, I think a pretty good gauge of what the average person's knowledge of the field looks like. He doesn't go seeking out what are the Oscar movies for me to see this year. He kind of lets it come to him. And what I found increasingly over the last 5-6 years is that even smaller movies, which would have gotten some level of marketing are getting next to nothing now. And so people like Brad, I will get to January, February, and he'll say, I've never heard of this film before. And the only reason that I've heard of it is because I spent too much of my time on film Twitter. And so I'll have things placed on my radar by people in New York and LA, and they'll say, keep an eye out for this and it'll eventually come out.

7:30 But as I look through this list of Best Picture nominees, I don't know how many of these the average person will have had any engagement. With. Yeah, I think that's true on the face of it. I mean, it's a correct statement to say that most people will not have heard of most of these movies. I do think that there's an element of people not making themselves available to hear about things anymore. I mean, you know, it used to be the way we heard about movies was because we watched TV and we would see movie trailers. And now we don't see movie trailers on TV anymore. So realistically, you know, how are people finding out about new movies? If if you don't ever expose yourself to something with commercials, then what do you realistically expect to have? Where do you, how do you expect to encounter movie trailers? And if you don't go to movies because you don't know what's out, then you all start seeing trailers in front of other movies.

8:26 Yeah. So do you still think that at the root of it, this is an issue with consumers and the way we consume things more than it is an advertiser issue and the way that they're targeting people? Well, I think part of what you're talking about is the sort of relationship between the Oscars and box office. And traditionally when something gets nominated for a lot of Oscars, it gets a huge box office boost. So a lot of films want to be in theaters when the Oscar nominations happen. The problem is that if every film wants that, then they're all directly competing against each other and none of them can make it. And then you leave September, October, November to vacant. So some movies open September, October, November. Other movies wait till January when nominations happen. As the sort of art film world keeps getting further and further removed from just the general theatrical zeitgeist, and as audiences keep wanting to watch kind of nothing but franchise movies, it becomes a lot harder. And, you know, so then you'll have films that that deliberately wait to open for Oscar nominations, like September 5 or Nickel Boys.

9:46 And then they don't get the nominations that they thought they would, or only a few of them, which that means they won't make the money they thought they would. And it becomes a vicious cycle. Yeah, Yep. I think it's mostly about consumers. I also think it's just part of modern life. I mean, so you and I are in a basketball league. We're both huge basketball fans. One of the biggest conversation topics about the NBA the last few years is why are the ratings so far down? Why, you know, what's what's wrong? Why aren't people enjoying the NBA? And, you know, I listened to, I listened to the Six Trophies podcast with Shay Serrano and Jason Concepcion. I was listening to a new episode earlier today and they put it specifically, it's like the razor down for Basil because the razor down for everything.

10:27 Because in 1994 there were seven things on TV and now there are 3000 things on TV, 4 million things on YouTube, everyone has Spotify, everyone has 10 streaming services. It's like what? What do you realistically expect in a different reality when there are 7 things to watch for 7,000,000 Things to watch? Yeah, I think that's fair. And I'm not trying to to be the hot take guy, but I've been thinking a lot about this crop of Oscar nominees, especially compared to last year's, where I felt like they did a good job of capturing both really populist movies and also movies that built word of mouth throughout Oscar season. I'm hoping that's what we get this year. But it it seems like the Oscars are always teetering on the brink of like complete implosion.

11:12 And 2024 looks to be a crop of movies that may not help their case a lot when it comes to viewership and awareness. So I want to just let me name the best picture nominees for this year. You've got Anora the Brutalist, a complete unknown, Conclave, Dune Part 2, Amelia Perez, I'm still here, Nickel Boys, The Substance and Wicked. Now, I would say that roughly half of these have broken through enough in the zeitgeist in the mainstream that people will have at least heard of them, right? Like a complete unknown conclave dune.

11:54 I would say the substance, it's such a big hit now and wicked for sure. The other five are, I think, trying to make their case. Some of these are definitely a surprise. And I'll I'll kind of let you go ahead and tease your article today. What were the biggest surprises, both in terms of what made it and what didn't make it in this Best Picture crop? Best Picture went pretty expectedly. I got 8 of 10 right. I think most people got 8 of 10 right. The two surprises were I'm Still Here in Nickel Boys. The two movies that I think people most commonly predicted to be in those spots were a real pain in Sing Sing, with a few people also thinking September 5 would make it. I'd say the I'd say it's somewhat surprising the real pain isn't there.

12:39 But I didn't think it was a sure thing because there were only two other categories that it was really expected to be a major player in, which were original screenplay and Supporting Actor, both of which it did get nominated for. But often when a film is only really going to be a factor in two other categories, it's hard to say the Best Picture support is truly there. I think from year to year and with this new Academy make up that we have, it's it's both exciting and it's super frustrating because you can't really pigeonhole movies the way he used to be able to write. Like I loved a real pain. It was one of my favorite movies of the year. And I really thought that based on the kind of vibes it was giving off and the audience reactions I saw in person when I saw the film, I was like, oh, this is the holdovers for this year.

13:23 It this is going to slot right into that holdover spot and really make a play. And you know, they gave it the big September push. So I thought that it was in prime position for a traditional Oscar campaign, and that just apparently didn't work. Whether it was the movie itself or the sort of traditional way it was being pushed, it really never caught on with Oscar voters. And I think as I look through this list of 10 movies, you know, I'm, I'm trying to kind of parse out like, oh, you know, this is this year's Killers of the Flower Moon or this is this year's Oppenheimer. And it's both a good and a bad thing that nothing really seems to be mapping 1 to one in terms of what would make it in in prior years.

14:04 Yeah. And you know, something you said about, you know, the Academy has grown and it's certainly artier and certainly more international than it used to be. It's a double edged sword because, you know, certainly that is manifesting the results. But in the old Oscar years, people used to complain every year about how many things got in that were just that seemed like pure Oscar bait. I mean, some movies that come to mind are like The Reader in Cold Mountain and Extremely Loud and Incredibly close. And movies like that don't get Best Picture nominations anymore. But that's a good thing, because when they did, people complain every year like who? Who wants those movies? And so now it's movies that certainly has smaller audiences, but at least somebody does actually want them, even if that's a smaller number of people. Well, I think that's a perfect segue into talking about perhaps the biggest lightning rod of this Oscars race, and that is Emilia Perez.

14:59 Yeah, that's the exception. I'm not sure who does want that. So folks, if if you've not heard of Emilia Perez, it's a Netflix film. It is perhaps best known because of who's in it and that is specifically Selena Gomez in a supporting role. She of $1 billion in make up money now. So it's it's a very politically charged and I don't know hot button topic movie that no one seems to like because it certainly would seem to check the what what would be considered traditional liberal boxes of Hollywood. And yet the audience for whom it is apparently being made has pretty much wholesale rejected it as having really regressive ideologies.

15:43 And then obviously anyone on the opposite side of the political spectrum from this movie is already not going to like it. It got mixed to negative reviews from most critics, and yet it has pretty much dominated award season. Daniel, is it just? Because of the international make up of the Academy. Now because this movie seemed to do well at the Globes too. But I don't think anyone could have seen this getting 13 Oscar nominations. Well, so a slight correction there that really shocks me. When I was researching a piece I was writing the other day, I looked up the Metacritic score of Amelia Perez, which I expected to be really low. And it turns out the Metacritic score is 71, which is actually pretty high.

16:26 And I confess I don't understand it because every critic I've actually seen or listened to speak about the film has not liked it. So I don't know where that 71 score comes from, but I, I believe it's accurate. I mean, I, you know, it's not like I think anyone is nefariously manipulating scores over at the Metacritic. I, I believe that score is mathematically correct. I just don't understand who those people are. And are they like, in hiding or are they in critical witness protection because they don't want to admit to liking Amelia Perez? Yeah, I don't know, man, but it definitely seems to be in pole position here. Nothing's really challenging it right now in terms of sheer numbers of nominations. The next highest nomination getters are Wicked and the Brutalist tied for ten nominations. Well, and so sorry, one one last thing about Emilio Perez we should talk about.

17:18 You know, so you mentioned how a lot of people that the movie seems to be 4 don't seem to like the movie. And that's true, but there's the difference between so it's a movie in Spanish and takes place in Mexico, but it was made by Europeans. A lot of the pushback we're seeing on the movie comes from people of Latino descent, but I think a lot of the support for the movie is coming from the Europeans in the Academy. That's like the European aesthetic of the film. Yeah, well, I think I've also seen a ton of pushback from the transgender community on this movie as well. And I I, if I can try to map it to another recent nominee, I think this is really kind of filling the the void of the triangle of sadness.

18:03 How the hell did this movie get in the best picture race? And again, it it's a, this movie is certainly not a satire, but it has the cheekiness of a European made film about issues of it, you know, Triangle of Sadness, it's issues of class and race. This movie, it's issues of gender and race. And I think that it's definitely performing better with non American critics than it has with anyone I've seen in America. Yeah, I mean, the way I've sort of explained Amelia Perez to people is it feels to me like Baz Luhrmann cosplay. And. I don't like Baz Luhrmann. I haven't really liked any Baz Luhrmann films.

18:43 So it makes sense that Emilia Perez also isn't working for me. But most Baz Luhrmann films do really well at the Oscars. I mean, a few years ago Elvis got it a lot of nominations and I did not think Elvis was a good movie. But, you know, there's there's obvious precedent that there are people in awards bodies that like Baz Luhrmann films. And so it makes sense that they also like Amelia Perez. Well, since you've now outed yourself as a Bazelerman detractor, I'm going to go out on a limb here and I'm going to say something that is probably going to get me drawn and quartered in film criticism circles. The brutalist did not do it for me, man. I went to see it last week and I was so incredibly pumped after that first half. And I I will join the chorus of people who just say the second-half landed with a real thud. I thought the epilogue that was tacked on at the end was really ham handed and just did not work for me. Overall it felt like an exercise in Letterbox to Bros making a movie that captures the form of films that they love without the real substance underneath it.

19:48 I'm curious to hear what you thought of the Brutalist because it seems like this is now A2 horse race between Emilia Perez and the Brutalist. Yeah, so. Well, so first of all, I'm going to disagree with the last thing you said. I think there are other films very much in the best picture race and I wouldn't even say that those are the top 2, but we can get to that later. The Brutalist I saw in Toronto, I've been meaning to see it again. So I've still only seen it the one time, which was, you know, four months ago now. I mostly agree with you that the ending didn't work. I would say I would be a little more generous and say it's 3/4 of a great movie than just half a great movie. I even thought. That the first half of the second-half of the movie was really great. The third quarter if you will. I agree the ending did not work, but man, it's such a big swing and the first half and even the 1st 3/4 I think are so good and so just inspiring for the way a big swing should make you feel when you're watching it that you sort of forgiven anything. I mean, you know, I, I was listening to Sean Fennessy and Adam Naman talk about it on the best picture. And what Adam Naman said was that it's the, the Brady Corbett is the only person out there even trying to make a Francis Ford Coppola movie.

21:07 And I thought that was a that was a great way to phrase it. But like you, you watch it and you see the same ambition that you see in things like The Godfather and Citizen Kane and There Will Be Blood. And that's not to say that it lands as perfectly as any of those movies, but man, that ambition goes a goes a long way to how you feel about it. Yeah, for sure. And I don't want to be overly negative about the movie, but I, I feel like there is a crop of young film makers that are coming up now who have been equally raised on film history and Instagram. And so, you know, you say, hey, I made my movie in Vista Vision as if that lends credence to the film itself. And I really appreciated some of the imagery in the movie, but it felt like a big exercise in worshipping at the altar of film without the actual religious. This experience of having a good movie presented to you, at times you know it, it really felt kind of hollow to me. Yeah, I think in a way, watching The Brutalist is almost experiencing the art form of movies conceptually more than it is experiencing a singular movie. Yeah.

22:12 I mean, even watching the trailer for The Brutalist, you just sort of feel like you're in the presence of something that is going for it. Yeah. And you know, people have talked for years about the A 24 aesthetic and I don't always buy into that stuff, but this might be the most a 24 movie of all time. Like it is, it is marketed as an experience from A 24 and I think it really does appeal to that sort of, again, I'll say the phrase like the letterbox to bro who wants to experience a Francis Ford Coppola movie. And it just did not quite hit that height for me. Yeah, I I do want to see it again because the ending really didn't work for me the first time I saw it. But now that I will go in with different expectations, I'm curious how it will land for me.

22:58 All right. If there's two movies that I think for me are kind of the dark horses in this race, or at least contenders in this race, I think Enora is still hanging around. Enora was the front runner back in October. It really seems to have fallen off and taken the back seat. I'll be interested to see what the campaign does from here and call it the traditionalist in me, but I still think that Conclave might have a punch to land. It is by. Far, I think the crowd pleaser of the bunch, if the boomers that are still represented in the Academy have anything to say. It just feels like a good old fashioned. Lots of dialogue, lots of scenery chewing. The problem with that is that Edward Berger didn't get a director nomination to back it up. So I'm curious to hear you said that there are other movies in this list that you think could challenge what is still on the radar for you?

23:48 Yeah. So if you want to go sort of inside baseball with how the breast, with how the best picture ballot works, of the 10 best picture nominees, it seems pretty clear that there are six of them that like really have a lot of support and four that don't have as much support. The six that really have a lot of support are Inora, the Brutalist Conclave, a Complete Unknown, Wicked and Amelia Perez. I would separate those six into two groups. The Brutalist, Amelia Perez and Wicked are the three that I don't think can win. Best Picture, Anora Conclave and A Complete Unknown are the three that I think can. And I would expect the Best picture winner to be one of those three.

24:29 And the way I would describe the difference is the way the Best Picture preferential ballot works is, you know, so there are 10 films and voters rank all 10. And then there are elimination cycles. For a film to survive and actually win Best Picture, two things need to happen. First, it needs to have a lot of first place votes. You can't survive the early eliminations without having a lot of first place votes. That's how we know something like Nickel Boys or I'm Still Here are not going to win Best Picture because they're not going to have enough first place votes to survive the early eliminations. They're going to be the first films eliminated from the process. But once the early eliminations happen and we start getting deeper onto people's ballots, 1st place votes don't matter as much.

25:10 Anymore. At that point, what most matters is being last on the fewest number of ballots. So movies like the Brutalist and Amelia Perez and Wicked obviously have a lot of fans they have. They will get enough first place votes to survive those early eliminations. But I also think they have a lot of detractors and they will be at the bottom of too many ballots to ultimately win. Which is why I think either a Nora Conclave or a complete unknown will be the winner. Because those are the movies where two things are true. One, they're going to have enough first place votes to get through the early eliminations. And two, they won't be at the bottom of very many ballots. The one thing that's true those 3 movies is no one really hates them.

25:56 I mean, look, it's 2025 and the Internet exists so there are obviously people that hate them. But generally speaking, in a voting body of 10,000 people, those are the three films that don't really have many haters. So I think that the best picture will come from one of those 3. Now there is a lot of time for politicking and for campaigning over the next, what, six weeks until we get to the Oscars. If you had to put money down today on one of those three, what do you think is A currently your pick for that, and B what do you think is actually going to withstand the next six weeks of campaigning to come out on top? Man, Conclave seems like the safest bet purely because it's the one that I almost can't imagine what the backlash is going to be like.

26:43 Inora, you're going to get backlash about like, is it the male gaze? There's already been the intimacy coordinator backlash and a complete unknown. You're going to get the backlash like is it Oscar bait? Are music biopics good? Do they like are they terrible? Is this like Bohemian Rhapsody all over again? And look, I hated Bohemian Rhapsody and I love complete unknown. So I don't think movies are comparable, but there will be takes that they are comparable. Conclave is the one where like, I just kind of don't see what people are going to attack it from in in in a way it's, you know, maybe the most boring is not the right word because I think conclave is a really good movie. It's it's probably the least challenging of the best comedies other than, you know, Wicked, which isn't really trying to be challenging, but that can work in it's favor.

27:31 Do you think we still live in a world where you need a Best Director nomination to back up your Best Picture nomination to have a real shot? Yes and no. I think that over the course of a decade, you probably have nine years where the Best Picture winner also gets a Best Director nomination. But there are exceptions in as long as it happens rarely, not getting a best director nomination can be actually a boon for a movie. I mean, we, we saw this happen with Argo in 2012 where there was such outcry that Ben Affleck didn't get a nomination that it made people like the film even more. And look, I, I love Argo. I think I'm even going to be on a podcast with you talking about Argos. But you have to acknowledge that a part of Argo's journey to the best picture microphone at the end of that Oscar night, but part of that journey was Ben Affleck not getting a direction.

28:22 And that played directly into the campaign and the way people felt about the movie. Yeah, for sure. And particularly with Edward Berger and Conclave, I think it's really interesting that, you know, so he also directed All Quiet on the Western Front two years ago. He did not get a best best director nomination for that one either. And All Quiet on the Western Front and Conclave, together, those two movies got 17 Oscar nominations, and he didn't get a director nomination for either 1. So that speaks to that will speak to a feeling that this guy has not gotten his due and that could help the movie. Yeah, I mean, he and Denis Villeneuve can be hanging out in the Losers Club on Oscar night because once again, Denis not nominated for a Dune film, which is it was expected. It still shocks me.

29:07 Like I I just don't really know what the guy has to do with his gigantic tentpole movie to earn himself some Oscar love. That's beside the point because I think we both agreed Dune is absolutely out of the running here. Daniel, before I let you go, what I appreciated about your article was you also don't use this word snub. I don't like talking about snubs when it comes to the Oscars because it implies some sort of objective collective truth and that someone was ignored instead of just there being a pool of really good people to choose from with. With that said, what are some films or performances or whatever what have you that you wish you could have seen listed here today? Yeah, I agree with you that I don't like the word snub because snub implies an agenda that I don't think is what's happening with 99% of Oscar emissions now.

29:57 Every once in a while there is something I think is a genuine snub. The best example I think is last year when the French film A Taste of Things was left out of the best International Film Race. I think that was a genuine snub that I think people deliberately didn't vote for it because they were so outraged that France chose that movie instead of Anatomy of a Fall. So it was a real sort of screw this movie kind of movement. That is a case where I think the word snub is fair to use. But for the most part it's, you know, I mean, like we said, the the Academy has 10,000 members and you got 10,000 people voting on their taste and it's like. If if. It's going to be weird. You know they're going to be weird results. The results won't make sense a lot of the time. But to say snub implies that you think people sort of like had this hidden agenda, which I think is almost never what's happening.

30:48 In some ways, I think the best case to use the word snub isn't when people watch something and didn't like it, but rather when the evidence sort of suggests that people didn't watch a movie at all. So, you know, answer your question, what I really wish would have been there to me, the best active performance of 2024 in either weed or supporting any gender. Just by far and away what I thought it was the performance of the year was Marian Jean Baptiste in the British film Hard Truths. I just saw it last night and that the movie didn't land for me as well as it did with others, but the performance absolutely did. Yeah. And so she one best actress from every major critics group in the country, New York Film Critics, Los Angeles, Chicago, National Society of Film Critics, they all gave her best actress.

31:40 I don't think that Academy members watched that movie and disagreed about her performance. I think they just didn't watch the movie. And that's a different problem. It's in some ways a more depressing problem. I have, if anyone, I will spare it from you in this podcast. But I have gone on rants online that I think the reason voters aren't watching that movie is because it is a movie about black women. And I think for voting bodies that are largely white male, you can convince white men to watch movies about black men. You can convince white men to watch movies about white women. I think it's hard to convince white men to watch movies about black women.

32:26 It feels too distanced from their experience and I think a lot of the most surprising Oscar omissions in the recent years, whether it be Daniel Dedweiler for till two years ago, whether it be the Woman King getting 0 nominations, whether it be Hard Truths today, whether it be Daniel Dedweiler in The Piano Lesson today. I think there's a real commonality of stories about black women being ignored. And again, I just, I don't think it's because voters are watching movies and thinking they're good. I think it's that voters just feel overwhelmed by their two watch stacks and the movies that end up falling out of the rotation are the movies about black women.

33:07 That's a good point. Yeah. I mean, I think that my pick for her, for who I would have in the best actress lineup is someone who didn't even make a dent in awards season. But it was my favorite performance of the year just because it was so kind of deliciously scene chewing. And that was Zendaya in Challengers. I thought that she absolutely knocked it out of the park in that movie. And it was it was a challenging role. She had to age from basically, I think like 17 up to mid 30s. And, and the absolute command that she had at the center of that movie, I think she's she has a presence, a screen presence that exceeds her, both her experience and her years on screen. It made me really excited for what's to come with Zendaya. Yeah, and I really liked Challengers. And you know, so Mary Angelina Baptiste was the the omission today that I was the saddest about. The one that I was the most purely shocked about was the Challengers didn't get nominated for either score or original song, both which were by Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross, both of which were outstanding.

34:11 It won best original score at the Golden Globes, which I would have thought would at least sew it up for a nomination. Yeah, but that didn't happen. That was, I think, the biggest pure surprise of the morning. Well, if we're talking about film Twitter stuff, I thought that it might sneak into cinematography as well. There's some really inventive camera work there. Well, and same with editing, the way they, the way they assemble the tennis matches. Yeah, I mean it. It got blanked and I was really surprised. Daniel, I want to thank you for jumping on with us talking about the Oscars. You've gotten me re excited about the Oscars after a day looking at a list of movies that I frankly didn't love this year. So tell us a little bit more about what you're writing. Where can we find you to get more excited about this Oscar season? So like you said, I, I wrote, wrote two pieces for Roger Ebert's this week. 1 was predictions of how the nominations would go.

34:59 And then there was a piece today about what wasn't there and, and why and sort of how it happened that way. I will be doing Oscar predictions for Roger Ebert's the week before the show. Other than that, I'm not sure yet, but we'll see. You can find Daniel on Twitter at Third Man Movies. Are you? Are you? Have you made the switch to Blue Sky yet? Yes, I was just going to say I'm also at Blue Sky at the same address. Third man movies third spelled out THIRD. Daniel Zwio, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you, Bob. I appreciate it. Always fun to talk to you. All right, we're joined once again by Mark McLaughlin from Old Blind Spirits.

35:43 Mark, it's been like a year and a half since we had you on the show. How's it going, man? Hey, glad to be back. Things are going pretty well. You know, had a 2024 was kind of a wild ride and mostly in good ways and churning away 2025. So you know, things are moving in the right direction. We're good. How are you? We're doing great, man. I was. I was saying that it's good to actually see your face for the first time. We're chatting over Zoom. I don't know what happened last time, but you you were reminding us that I think you were like at home in your bed or something the last time we talked. So you know, at least now you've got like the the zip up old line vest on. You look like a professional. That's right. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the and the listeners can take the, the, you know, the, the bedroom thing however they want, you know. It was an interesting conversation to say, at least. It it just confirmed for me how sultry the sound of my voice must be, Brad.

36:31 That's that's what it is. Moving on from that, I. Mean listen. Hey, so we've been going back through some of our past episodes, Brad. We've been updating a lot on the our film and whiskey website and we've been adding a lot of our old whiskey reviews as blog posts. And we've actually seen a lot of traffic on the site from some of these blog posts. And I just updated the last time we had old wine on the show, we reviewed 3 of their whiskeys. So we did their bottled and bond. We did their Madera cask finish and their Port cask finish. Now, in addition to those three, we also had a a separate episode with Mark just kind of talking about the history of the brand where we called out their Navy strength 114 proof American single malt.

37:15 And dare I say, Brad, it might be my favorite American single malt on the market right now. Dude it is bonkers how delicious old line spirits 114 is. That Navy strength just kicks ass man. I'm also like curious. So like Navy strength is 114 where? Where would you put like army strength whiskey? Oh man, well under 100. OK, that's what I figured. Yeah, that's like the whiskey that you can sell outside the liquor store 'cause they've proved it down to like 48 proof. Does that mean that like marine strength is just like really stupid? But it's like 148 proof like. Yeah, it's kind of like. Way too much to handle.

37:56 Yeah. It's just very volatile, you know? Yeah. So Mark is back to join us once again. He's brought along 4 different spirits for us to sample as we talk. But what we really brought him in for was this new development in the TTB world. Folks, we really don't get into the legality behind our products very often, but there's been a. Feeling we should. I feel like we should though, Bob, that that's what everybody is looking for. Like what is the legal world behind spirits? I think we just try to cover it with the blanket statement like this is legal. Trust me, you know, that's kind of what we we typically do here. But but the TTB recently designated American single malt as an official category in the world of spirits.

38:39 And this has been something that's been brewing for a long time. There's been a lot of lobbying going on to get it recognized as an official category. Now, what does that mean for the average consumer, Brad? I don't know. You don't know. We just know that we're still drinking delicious whiskey. And so we've brought Mark along to kind of fill us in as average Joe's on what this means for us, for our wallets, for the shelves and the selection that we might see, but also what it looks like for a producer of American single malt. So Mark, we're going to be kind of tapping into your expertise today, man. Yeah, well, hey, no, happy to be here. And I mean, do you want to jump right in to to what you queued up there? I mean, yeah. All right.

39:19 Well, so the yeah, the category recognition has been, that's been something like you said that that's been in the works for years. And one of the most interesting things about that, in my opinion, is that it's we as a category of producers, American single malt, we were, we were all producing this thing we called American single malt whiskey. And we were all adhering to a set of a definition that we all agreed to as a group of producers, but it didn't really exist, right? We were, we were very, very broadly under the government rules called an American malt whiskey, which had a pretty wide range of definition. And then so we were all acting as if this existed and encouraging and pushing the government to place a, a definition around it.

40:00 And you know, one perspective on that, which was originally my perspective, was why would we encourage the government to come in? And place any sort of, you know, definition on something that is right now we have more flexibility. Why encourage the oversight? And where I was convinced that I was wrong and I think I was wrong is that, you know, the government eventually was going to do this anyway. Probably not in 2024 without the big push, but eventually as the category grows that we're going to do it. And who knows, without our input what the definition would have been. Somebody, you know, well meaning but not really well versed in ASM might have just, you know, put forth some definition that really, really kind of screwed us. So you. Mean you can't trust politics politicians to like put categories on things they don't really understand. You know, you'd be shocked, you know, you know, it's, it's, it's wild.

40:45 The, so we, you know, we, we proposed this and as a, as a group, like I said, we all got on the same, same page and, and then it worked. It took longer than we expected, but it worked. And then So what that means for consumers in the near term, I don't think it means much more than an added layer of not respectability. What's the word I'm looking for? Just an added layer of of this is a real thing? This is officially. Legitimacy. Legitimacy is a word I couldn't find. You know, this is the first category of whiskey that the US government has recognized in like 52 years. That's a pretty big deal, we think now. I think what you're going to see is what that gives us as producers is now we have a, you know, every business wants clarity. You know, you always hear about that.

41:26 You know, when there's going to be changes to taxes or something like that, whether they're good or bad changes to businesses, they, they just want to know so they can plan and grow. So we know, we know what this category now officially looks like and we you can grow from there, which is great. So you know, will you see American single malt whiskey categories in your local liquor store? Maybe, maybe not. I think you will eventually. But in the near term, I think it's just that little, that little tailwind boost of like, hey, we're, you know, we're taking ourselves seriously and so is the government and so are the consumers. Well, and it seems like it would also trickle down into things like a San Francisco spirits competition, right where now you have a formalized category of American single malt that you can win, you know, best in show in and, and things like that. So it seems like it just expands the world and at the end of the day, like it gives the whiskey consumer more things to enjoy. And, and I think that's like the beautiful element of giving it that designation is like now I get like I as a consumer, get to become an expert in something that's brand new and it like that's really fun.

42:32 Yeah, I agree. I couldn't agree more. And then, you know, the beauty of the definition, the way it was, the way it has become official in my opinion, is that, you know what we didn't want to do when you look at the definition of single malt Scotch or the definition of bourbon or rye whiskey here in America, those definitions make all the sense in the world, right? And, and they and they are pretty tightly defined. And that makes sense when you're a category that's been around for hundreds of years, right? You want to enshrine that so that newcomers don't, you know, do something with the category of bourbon that you don't, you know, that that the the industry and the consumers don't want, right? You know, just, I mean, wacky, call it a bourbon and it hurts the name of bourbon. You know, American Singer Mall is in a different position. We're just starting out. So we want to have a wide enough aperture, if you will, or a wide enough list of options on what we can do with our whiskey that allows us to do something different than Scotch, different than bourbon, but but also have guardrails on so it doesn't get too crazy.

43:25 So that's really, I think what was done. And a good example of that is, you know, bourbon, as you guys well know, has to be aged in a virgin oak cask, as does American rye whiskey, old line or excuse me, American single malt can be aged in a virgin oak barrel or a used barrel. It doesn't really matter. It, it doesn't matter at all. It's, it's, it's allowed. And that's wonderful because you have certain places like, you know, Virginia Distilling Company, they make one for whiskey down in Virginia and they take a little bit more of an old world approach and old line takes more of a new world virgin oak aging. We can both do that and be in the same category. And I think what you're going to see is, you know, as the, you know, up until now, I think that rum has probably had the widest breadth of flavors in any category. When you look at very, very funky rums from like Martinique to very, very sweet rums from, you know, Puerto Rico or or sometimes the Dominican Republic, places like that, rum is just such a wide open category, which is great.

44:14 I think American Singapore is going to revival that for the amount of the breadth of flavors that you can get from a category because the definition was left, you know, a little bit more open. I think it's a good segue into talking about the spirits that you sent us to try today. And first of all, thank you for that. Any package that I received that has four different kinds of alcohol in it is always greatly appreciated. Let's go. But like I said, I think we've tried four different spirits from you guys already. We have four more today. Three of them are American single malt. One of them is a rum, which I know excites Brad because when he's not drinking whiskey, he's a rum guy. So, Brad, you're welcome. Thank you. Thank you very much. Mark is my new favorite distiller. Yeah. So I think we should go ahead and dive into this flagship American single mall.

44:59 This is 95 proof. And I guess my first question mark is like, explain to me the difference between your flagship 95 and your bottled and bond, which is at 100. You know, aside from just the fact of, you know, aging or proof point, like is there any sort of different make up to anything here? Or is are we just trying to find a more approachable proof point for the 95? That's a great question. So yeah, there are kind of noteworthy differences. So the we have, we produce our whiskey in two locations. As you guys may remember, we have the distillery that I'm sitting in now where we have a 300 gallon pot still and we work with Middle W spirits in Columbus, OH and we use their much, much larger column still and pot still for the stuff we produce out there.

45:40 So we produce in two locations since we're talking about the category definition or we're talking about that. Now it's important to note that we don't marry any barrels from Ohio with any barrels from Baltimore that would run afoul of the definition. But as long as those barrels, you know, stay Baltimore barrels stay with Baltimore barrels as far as you know, blending and consumption and Ohio barrels stay with Ohio barrels, then we're compliant. So because of for a number of reasons. So the whiskey here is coming off a completely different still. It's double pot stilled distilled. And we also age in here in Maryland. Most of the stuff we produce we put into actually 30 gallon barrels and everything else we do in Ohio, which is, you know, higher volume is goes into 53 gallon ASPs. So and that came about by accident. We were phasing our way from small barrels up to the larger barrels as a lot of distilleries do. And once we hit the 30s, we just loved the character and we didn't want to let that go completely. We didn't want to just pass through that that size towards 50 threes.

46:39 We didn't want to let that go. So what we do here in Maryland mostly goes into 30s. And so that the bottle in the Bond was distilled here and are still meets all the requirements bottle in the Bond and it was aged in a 30 gallon barrel #4 char, whereas what we're drinking at the 95 was aged in a 53 gallon ASB from for a blend. And it's a blend of four to 8 year old, which is also important because those, those profiles between 4:00 and 8:00 are dramatically different. And it's it's amazing how they kind of play together. One of the things that we mentioned on the last episode with you guys was and, and forgive me for the kind of crudeness of this comparison, but Brad, I love the Bourbony character that's brought forth in their single mold.

47:20 I think it's a fantastic gateway from bourbon drinkers into a new category. And I think it is that virgin oak that you guys use. It really does impart that sort of Bourbony sweetness. Brad, we're going to give just general impressions of these because we want to respect Mark's time, but also we will give full reviews of all four of these products on our website. So go to filmwhiskey.com and you can find all these reviews. What immediately jumps out to me on the nose here, Brad, on this flagship, we have a tea that we drink when we're all sick in my house and there are sick people in my house. And it's a lemon, lemon ginger tea. There is there is lemon and there is ginger on this and it is super bright. And I am absolutely in love with this nose man.

48:01 Yeah, it absolutely has some floralness to it that I really, really love. And yet, like you said, there's enough of that bourbon influence, not bourbon influence, enough of that cask influence that man, like it has a little bit of vanilla and a little bit of caramel and enough to to blend it all together. And then you drink it. And for me, it immediately goes into that really beautiful multi experience that I want out of any single mom from anywhere. Yeah, Brad, I'm going to let you kind of dictate which is the next one that we drink. Do you want to jump immediately to the Navy proof, which we've already said is is freaking dope? I always want to jump to the Navy proof, Bob. I think it'd be good to jump into the the Pedro Jimenez Sherry cask finish, which I've already drank. Oh my God.

48:56 Yeah, one of the things I love about their experimentation process at Old Wide is how many different finishes they're producing. So like I said, we've tried the Port Cask and the Madera Cask already. We're trying to Sherry cast today and I'm looking at their website and I thought, you know, we've we have to be tapping out on all of their their line, their portfolio at this point. Oh no, Brad, we've got a cognac cask finish, Maple syrup cask, muscatel, armagnac soturn and rum cask finish that we can still work through. So, Mark, you're invited back perpetually anytime you. Can count me in? I'll wear my welcome anytime. Mark, tell me about the the PX finish. Like, what was it about this specific line that made you go, oh, we need to turn this into something, something we're doing?

49:45 You know, so it's, it's been a kind of a long evolution and I'll try to keep it as brief as I can. But when we started out our, our finishing process, you know, I think we first put whiskey in the finishing barrel back in 2016, maybe. So right around the beginning of when we were, we're kind of getting going. We went with Ola Rosso Sherry, which we love. And that was the first one we did. It just seemed like kind of a, for us, an obvious first move, very commonly used style of barrel. And really we figured there was very little risk to doing it. Let's just see what, you know, what happens. And we love the result. Somebody kind of opened up our aperture and decided that, you know, there's a fine line, I think as a distillery where, you know, putting out new and different products, but also not coming across as like you're all over the map, right. So we made it a deliberate choice to kind of open up that aperture and order a couple barrels here, a couple barrels there to try out new things, test them out, see what people thought, see what we thought, see what was, you know, financially, you know, with a marketable product. And then now we're kind of narrowing it down again and we're taking the ones that we think are the biggest winners and making them slowly, surely into, you know, ongoing, ongoing releases.

50:54 So the Sherry finish, you know, we did Ola Rosso, which we love. We still do love and at one point, you know, after having done the the port casks and that that kind of fruit bomb characteristic of those port casks gave us some a little bit more interest. And like, well, PX Sherry can be a little more fruity, a little sweeter than Olaroso. So it's not nearly as big and bold necessarily as one of those ports, but it's kind of a step in that direction. So we ordered some. We absolutely loved it. We actually have more coming in soon, more barrels. So yeah, it was just a a way of just taking that that known factor of Olarosso and just nudging it in a different direction. And we were thrilled with the result. And actually, if I can share without going on too long, we actually also took a chance with these barrels to do an level of experimentation that we hadn't done before. Is these barrels come to us sealed with a little bit of liquid in them, a little of the wine and it's there's an inner gas in there, argon or something I believe that keeps it stable. And then you have a choice.

51:49 You can empty that or you can keep it in. And we had four barrels for this release and we one, we kept the wine in there, which was maybe a liter out of a like 60 gallon barrels. So very, very minimal. You know, one, we Ted emptied everything out and then the other two were like 1/3 and 2/3. And it was fun just to kind of see, you know, every time we do one of these finishes, not only does it work, but what can we learn from this that we can then apply to the next thing when it's Madeira or whatever. So and we actually found that the one with no with all the wine emptied was actually our favorite. Here's here's something I'm going to be bold. We just drank a few weeks ago, a month or two ago, the Bushmills 30 and Bushmills 29, which are both PX finishes.

52:32 If you can't get your hands on Bushmills 29, which is thousands of dollars, I think that this is like the perfect substitute. Oh man. Like tell me I'm tell me I'm wrong, Bob. Here's the thing, dude. Like so we've tried three different cask finishes now. And when you already respect like the the baseline product that is being finished in something else, then you're kind of willing to go on a more experimental route, right? Like I'm looking at our old scores. I fell in love with the Madera finish. I gave it a 45 out of 50. It was one of the highest scores I've ever given on this podcast. You were not a fan of the Madera finish. But we both know that apparently that's just a thing with the Madera.

53:14 That's not a thing with this baseline distillate here. So I I love that you guys are willing to introduce people to like, hey, this is what old line looks like Now come with me as we try finishing it in all these different casks. I think that this one here the the PX finish. It's crazy to go from the flagship to this because like the the biggest thing I noticed was the difference in viscosity. Like this just had a much more syrupy mouthfeel to it. I don't know, Brad, if I would say that it tops the Madeira finish for me, but it's like right there, man, This is a damn good finished whiskey. Yeah, and it's the, oh, I if you, if you haven't gotten into PX finishes, this might not always sound great, but it's the pruning this of it that like is so freaking good. And I know prunes are not the favored thing, you know, fruit of the stone fruits, but man, oh man, it leaves you with such a richness of flavor.

54:15 I like, like truly I, I, I hope I'm not overstepping. Normally we never compare whiskies when we're talking to a distiller to another company. I truly think that this is worth way more money than you're charging for it. The price The price on this PX finished is incredible. Well, I appreciate that. And you know, we, we, we make a very conscious effort to keep our pricing as we, we, even though we're a single malt whiskey, so many of our early adopters are bourbon drinkers. And, you know, they even granted, you know, bourbon prices have gone out to lunch in the past few years, but they're starting to come back down. But the, you know, we, we thought like, you know, I like to spend, you know, 45 to 65 bucks is my sweet spot on a bottle of whiskey. I mean, sometimes above, obviously there's certain things below that you can find some great deals below that. That's kind of like, you know, generally speaking, where a lot of what I buy is and I'm like, and I think for bourbon drinkers, a lot of the brands, the big brands vacated the consumer and moved up market because demand and left that. So we're like, you know what, like our margin and our margins are way lower than a a big bourbon producer. AR grain is more expensive than B we're tiny, but you know, we're going to put it there and we're going to that's what we think it should be.

55:24 And yes, as we get some things that are a little bit more rare, maybe we'll go up for certain things. But really that sweet spot is if we feel that's, that's kind of where we want to shop. And I'd, I'd much rather sell it there and have you say, wow, what a deal I got and make a few extra bucks. You know, to me, that's better in the long run for everybody. Yeah, I mean, I mean, at the end of the day, like finish is an important part of any whiskey tasting experience. And like when I walk away from drinking a bottle of whiskey and go man, I only paid X amount of dollars for that. Like that is the best finish any distiller can leave on a on a consumer's financial palette. Like, wait. Yeah, absolutely right.

56:05 Yeah. You want people to. Yeah. That that you nailed it. Like the purchase should be good from beginning to end and after, you know, just like, hey, I want another bottle of X. That was a good deal. And I was pleased, you know. Well guys, let's jump into. This Navy Strength and then Brad, I think what we'll do is we will review the rum as a bonus review on the website and we'll keep this totally whiskey centric. We haven't actually given a full review of Navy strength aside from just saying it is awesome. And I think. If you're a listener of this podcast like that should be enough for you to go get it at this point. We've reviewed a lot of whiskeys on this podcast, and I'm telling you, this is an awesome whiskey. But Brad, as we dive into the 114, let's just give a few notes here. What are you picking up on this one on the nose? Man, I, I mean, it's, it's got the maltiness that's all there. I think that what hits me, there's like a rich vanilla bomb for me that just it's, there's a depth to it that you don't often find on other single malts.

57:09 Yeah, we talk all the time about how if you go to Scotland and you're sampling whiskeys at distilleries, it's really easy to find cast strength or quote UN quote foolproof Scotch in Scotland. You can't really get high proof Scotch in America. And so AI think that this single malt is scratching my itch for high proof single malt. But it combines for me the best of like American craft whiskey. It has that just like American craft note that we get sometimes, Brad, you know what I'm talking about. There's like a a distinct herbal note we get on craft whiskey, but it's coupled with that incredible maltiness that we love in our single malts. And it's like the perfect marriage of those two. And I mean, to Mark's point, it's 55 bucks like you like there's nothing on the market that is competing with this right now.

58:02 It's like insane value and insane quality married together. Yeah, yeah, Truly, if you can get your hands on their Navy strength, it will be one of the best bottles you have on your shelf at any given time. I I man, you guys keep talking. I love it. This is This is. How we're trying to coax you back. Keep. Sending us finishes and stuff. Done, done, man. I'm I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a sucker for it. The no well, I, I guys, I can't thank you enough for those comments. And I, it's, we love this Navy strength. And you know, where we, we originally, we call it our blue label because it's a blue label. And the blue label used to be a cast strength, which ranges from 1:23 to 1:26 or so.

58:45 And we certainly didn't want to vacate the cast strength, but we wanted to actually make our cast strength program a single barrel program. So we decided, Archie, I decided, you know, a year or two or three ago, whatever it was that well, you know, we love our cast strength, but he and I were almost always putting a drop of water in it or an ice cube just to kind of bring it down a little bit. Like we're probably drinking this thing in the mid one teens anyway. You know, that's what we love that. We just think it shines at that kind of 1-14 ish range. And then also, you know, we're Navy guys and no one's really doing Navy strength whiskey. There's a few 1 fourteens out there like, you know, old granddad, but they don't name label it as Navy strength. So all those reasons like, hey, this just seems like a slam dunk. And then now we've opened up our our we call our black label, which is our single barrel cast strength. So not only like store picks, but also we'll do like we're releasing a Mark founder pick here like next week. I think this 114 has been such a big win for us. And one thing that has changed since we last spoke is I'll shamelessly plug that we can actually ship to like 41 states now.

59:42 That's. Awesome man. Website if anybody is listening and wants to pick up any of the bottles and we have free shipping on three or more bottles. So, so yeah, if people are interested in grabbing it, you can go right to our website and it basically is fulfilled via third party in Washington, DC. But that's been really, really great for us that people can, you know, experience what you got, you know, basically experience what you're tasting if they want to taste themselves. Well, Mark, we can't say enough good things about you or the brand. Thank you so much for joining us. Before you go, I want you to just give like your 32nd elevator pitch to bring it back to the category for people who are listening to the podcast who really only drink bourbon, maybe dip their toe in rye once in a while. Single malts. It's a, it's a step, man.

1:00:24 It, it really is a leap of faith for a lot of people because they're just not used to the category. Psych us up a little bit. Convince us why should we be trying American single malt? Absolutely. So I, I dearly love the categories of bourbon, rye, single malt, Scotch, you know, blended, I love them all right. And they all bring different things to the party. One thing I've noticed in the past, you know, especially 10 years that bourbon has taken on such a massive outsized role in the market where as much as I love bourbon, there's a lot of people who only drink bourbon. And I think they don't realize that there's so many, the things that they love about that bourbon can be found in other categories and often in ways that they never could have really imagined. So for us, you know, we're not trying to displace any category.

1:01:07 It'd be silly if we never could if we wanted to, But for American Singapore, I think most of us look at it as, you know, for if you guys have your seven or eight, you know, kind of go TOS you, you reach for pretty often. We want to be one of those. We want an American Singapore to be in that rotation. Because I think that the, the flavors, if you look at like AI think of like a, a blending board for like a DJ or something, like all the flavors for the most part are going to be very similar or the same as what you deliver in a bourbon. It's just they're different levels, right? So you can get those and you know, we just offer something that other categories can't. And I think it's, you know, go to your local, you know, whiskey bar and you know, it's hey, pay, pay 8 bucks, 10 bucks, 15 bucks to try something new. If you like it, go to the store and buy it. And that goes for the whole category, you know, old line, others.

1:01:51 There's amazing American single malts out there. And I'm excited that people are are starting to really see what's out there and available at a great value in many cases. Yeah, and Mark, like you would be a regular on our podcast because Bob and I say that all the time, Like just try things like that. There are so many whiskeys. Like go to your whiskey bar, give it a shot. You know, it's there for a reason. Use it to try new things, have new experiences. And I, I can guarantee you if you try old line spirits, it will not be a waste of your money. You will have an awesome experience and it will be well worth your time. Brad, I learned a fun fact today. I don't I did not know this until today. There are currently more distilleries producing single malt in America than in Scotland. So if you.

1:02:39 Truly suck at Scotland. I was going. To say, if you truly believe in American exceptionalism, if you really think that we're #1 then you need to be trying some American single. Malt. Guys, this has. Been Mark McLaughlin from Old Line Spirits. Mark, it's great to catch up with you. Congratulations on the entire portfolio. Congratulations on the TTB designation and come back and join us soon man. Hey you guys, thanks for having me. It's always a pleasure and thank you all so much. I'm here, whatever you need, let me know. We'll be back on Tuesday with another regularly scheduled episode, but until then, I'm Bob Book. I'm Brad G. And we'll see you next time.