Misery / Old Overholt 11-Year Rye

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1:23 The whiskey is old Overholt 11-year and we'll review them both. This is the film and whiskey. E podcast, welcome to the film and whiskey podcast. Where each week, we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey. I'm Bob book, I'm your number one fan, Bob. And we are getting spooky for Halloween, Brad.

2:05 Happy Halloween to you, my friend. Hey, Happy eve of All Saints Day Bob, there you go Bret. I have you ever been like a big Halloween person? I am not a big Halloween person. I literally was walking with some close friends the other day and, you know, there's all of the accoutrement knickknacks that people like to put in their yard and I'm like, I'm not a fan of Of two types of Halloween. I'm not a fan of like, creepy Halloween, you know, like the legitimately scary like ghoulish figures that what people will put in their yards and stuff. And I'm here, and I'm not a fan of slutty Halloween. Those are like the two things.

2:48 I don't understand why people are drawn to her. I get why people are drawn towards the second one. Yeah, not as much, the first one, I get it. And through the course of this podcast, we have not done a ton of Horror films. And part of that is because I think horror is just between the two of us. Probably our least favorite genre easily and that's not to say that there aren't great horror movies out there that I don't appreciate horror. I think a lot of the horror that we've done to like major horror heads out there would probably be, you know, the light beer version of what you're used to watching. And I'm okay with that. I know we did like alien and season taylean we've done the sixth sense, we've done, you know, psycho so there's been a A few Silence of the Lambs, I think would qualify.

3:32 Oh yeah. And I think today's episode Is straddling that same line between horror and Thriller and I think I would probably tip this a little bit closer to the Thriller side of things than the horror side of things, but spooky nonetheless. Yeah. And I, if I'm just being honest, this is our damn podcast. And we're going to do the boobs who would damn well, please. Well, for Halloween, we are kicking off three movies from the director Rob Reiner and Brad. This is the third Rob Reiner. Homes that we've done on the show. And honestly, I've been looking forward to Rob Reiner more than just about any other director on this list this season because he's so hard to pin down as a director. He doesn't have a certain aesthetic that he sticks to, he doesn't work within one genre, he's not, if I'm being frank, the most artistically gifted director and so you might not even know that you're watching a Rob Reiner movie when you're watching a Rob Reiner movie and yet, with this, Being the third one.

4:30 We've watched, I am starting to pick up on some patterns and some things that he's really, really good at. So I'm excited to talk about him as a director, both the good and the bad. Yeah, and I think that misery kind of there's pieces of it that you see as a blueprint for some other movies that I found really fascinating throughout. There's also just the reality that Rob Reiner originated as a comedy TV director. Right? Like an actor. Yeah. All in the Way he acted. And so I think a lot of people probably doubted him as a director coming into the projects, like this. But I will say, there is Shag in this movie and there's places where you're like, oh this is not a - director, you know, it's not even always a b-plus director like he has some issues but oh my gosh dude, what a freaking terrifying movie. Well, and I think one thing that we do need to point out It too. Is that the script for this movie was written by William Goldman?

5:32 Who is revered as being one of the greatest screen writers of all time and especially from the point of view of structure, his scripts are just always kind of airtight when it comes to how they're structured. And Rob Reiner worked with him on The Princess Bride, which we're going to do in a couple weeks here. And, you know, apparently they got along so well that he brought him on board to adapt this. Stephen King novel. Now, this is our first Stephen King adaptation Brad. We've never done a movie like Carrie, On this podcast and Stephen King is kind of notorious for liking some of his film, some of his film adaptations and disliking others, you know, notoriously famously hated The Shining but he loved this version of misery. So I think you know it's important to say author approved.

6:18 You've got a great script behind it and the script, I think does a lot of the heavy lifting that sometimes Rob Reiner 's directorial, deficiencies these are covered up by if that makes sense. But we're going to get into talking about all that in the course of this episode. Before we get started here, it's time for us to throw over to Brad explains the part of the podcast, where Brad breaks down the plot of the film that he has just seen often for the first time. Brad. Before you even go into Brad explains, I want you to just share with with our listeners. How many times have I checked in on you over the last couple weeks to make sure that you had not done any research on this? V before you went into it about 14 times too many Bob. So yeah there's one very famous very iconic scene in this movie and it is like a stomach-churning, make you say oh kind of scene and I just wanted to make sure that you had no prior exposure to that scene and we're not going to spoil it yet but we will get into spoilers on this episode. But all that to say I wanted Brad to go into this with as little knowledge of the movie as possible, so that scene could have the intended effect and now Brad's going to talk about that. As we get into Brad explains.

7:40 I've put 60 seconds on the clock here. Brad. Can you break down the plot of misery and say, do you want me to just explain that seam or please, please do misery is a film about a novelist named Paul Sheldon. Who seemed I would assume that he's writing like Me romance novels, right, Bob? Yes, okay, that that's what it seemed like to me when you looked at the covers, he writes steamy romance novels, and he goes to a remote part of Colorado, to finish his final book in the series. Actually, it's his first book outside the series. I apologize on the way home, he gets caught in a blizzard almost dies.

8:20 He is found by a nurse named Annie Wilkes, who takes him to her home. Unable, to take him to the hospital because of the blizzard. She nursed him back to health. With only for him to find out that she is. His number one fan and is drugging him to keep him sedated enough to live in her house and he becomes a captive, her hope is that he'll fall in love with her and that he will write her a better ending to the stories because he had killed off the main character of the books, which was absolutely unacceptable to an E5 s. Local sheriff realizes what's going on and tries to help him time while in the end Has to help himself.

9:02 No nice. Hey ran over a little bit but you landed the plane? Yeah, the the recorder can strike the last five seconds for the record. All right man, so I think a good place to start is to get the Stephen King of it all out of the way because we're not really going to talk a whole lot about Stephen King other than to kind of touch on the foundations of this story. So he writes this novel as he's coming out of the 1980s, which Which for him, meant heavy, heavy, heavy cocaine addiction. And here's a question, I always have when authors and, you know, pop stars and all these people are, like, yeah, I just super addicted at all the cocaine like can that be used in a court of law? Do they?

9:48 Wait ten years before they admit it? There's a statute of limitations on. Yeah, on admitting to heavy cocaine use, you know, I don't know. I mean, if you can't prove it, you can't charge anybody with it but But yeah. So, anyway, Stephen King heavily addicted to cocaine. It really ruined his life. And this story was him, kind of exercising. Those demons and he's gone on record to say that. Obviously, the writer in this story is a stand-in for himself, but that the Annie Wilkes character is really a stand-in for the, the crippling sort of addiction that. He faced literally crippling addiction that he faced with with cocaine, would you use the word hobbling? I would say it hobbled. Him. Ah, okay.

10:28 Gotcha. You repeatedly, it was like, it was like a sledgehammer of a now, I don't mean to make light of cocaine addiction. Let's seriously, let's, let's move on from there. Probably shouldn't do that. He'll probably shouldn't should be joking about that. However, the the book as with most Stephen King books is significantly weirder than the movie adaptation. And if you've ever looked into like the book version of it versus the movie version of it, it's much much weirder. It's just a thing with Stephen King and in the Version, the key scene that we have been talking about and I'm going to tip into spoiler territory here. So if you have not seen the movie, I mean, Brad, you can give people a better recommendation that I can, but I would recommend going into this movie cold. If you can, yes, 100%, we do this from time to time. There are certain movies that are just so twist. Not, I don't want to say twist dependent, but like they're just really good if you don't know what's going on like it. It's like reading a good book, you are stuck. You're stuck on each page like can't wait for what's going to happen next.

11:36 And this is one of those movies. All right. So there's your warning. If you want to keep listening, keep listening. But we're going to spoil the most important scene in the movie and he hobbles. Paul. And she does so, because she finds out that he's been escaping his room and because she's cuckoo and so she brings a giant, a giant block of wood into his room. He's already been immobilized in terms of Then his his legs braced, because he had compound fractures, he's kind of on the mend, but he's been getting around in a wheelchair and he wakes up to find that he has been strapped down to the bed. And that Annie has a block of wood that she places between his ankles and she takes a sledgehammer and she freaking annihilates.

12:18 My guys legs, like just that the image of that angle, snapping, oh, is just there's a level of like Hence watching intense pain that I would I would call butthole puckering. Like it made my butthole pucker. Yeah, just being honest with you, dude. It reminds me of when Gordon Hayward went to the Celtics. Oh dude, and he was playing Cleveland and literally game 1 of the Season. Yeah, man. And just came down funky on his leg or, you know, the more famous One would be the low-level player. Yep. Like it's that level of disgusting this odds.

12:59 I mean it's an old and very effective and dude, 2.2 Kathy Bates for a second. The way that she knocks the one ankle off off being a little, you know, relative term and is walking to the other side and in the middle like this is a moment where the choreography like the blocking of how she's walking him where she delivers her line. It's like right in the middle between her two. Ian's of very unloving actions. She goes. I love you. Paul. Just delivers it with this dead-eyed. Yes Solace.

13:43 All right, so anyway I brought this whole scene up because in the book version Stephen King has an e cut. His one leg off with an ax and then cauterize it with a blow torch and I got the later in the novel, she actually cuts off one of his thumbs to William Goldman, when he's writing the script is like, in love with this scene and Rob Reiner is like we can't do this and William Goldman, Advocates and Advocates and Advocates and the studio Executives. Keep saying like we're not going to show this dude. Get his leg cut off with Max and Ryan are actually says listen I understand that we're not sympathizing with an e but we at least need to be able to understand where she's coming from and her actions need to be I guess like a logical.

14:29 Oil outpouring of her, severely, damaged mind. And if we show her doing that, that is such a step too far for the audience, that they'll never be able to do anything. But hate this character from that point on and I think like to some extent, obviously we hate this character anyway but I think what he's trying to say is like there's a level of sympathy that you still kind of have to maintain with that character and for her to do that would completely suck and and sap all that out. And I think that this is one of those instances where and William Goldman said this after the fact they made the right choice. Like, I don't know that this movie would have benefited from that level of Gore added to it. And it was much more effective to see what she did. And honestly, like I think I probably had an even stronger reaction to seeing that, then I would have to somebody getting his leg cut off.

15:22 Yeah, I think that cutting the leg off would have just fallen into the the more common trope. Like a slasher film of, you know, just I'll blood spurting everywhere and she's covered in it and he is and honestly I think that would have taken away from the visceral nature of the final you know fight of the movie. Hmm. You know where blood is seen for pretty much the first time. Yeah and I think that that that if they had, if they had used an Axe, Murder e type of seen earlier in the film, it really would have taken away from that. I feel like this movie would almost play better to a 2022 audience just for the simple fact that I feel like we've come so much further in our understanding of mental illness. That Kathy Bates, character comes across a little bit more sympathetic, just for the idea of like, oh, we like can understand that mental illness is a real thing that people really struggle with and you can see her From time to time as a man, like, what's going on with her? Like, like, this poor lady is under such delusional things and doesn't make her actions, right?

16:38 But you know, you don't necessarily keep the the blame on her as much as you might have in 1990. So I think that's a really good segue into talking about the way this movie is put together. And, I mean, do we want to dive into the Rob Reiner conversation now, or do you want to do performances first? You choose Bob, you lead us in the right direction. I'm sure, let's talk performances. So, this movie, this movie comes out a little over 30 years ago. Now, and I think in some ways the movie has has aged kind of poorly like the look of the movie, some of the pacing of the movie, some of the shots, you know, like you said it, it Paints in Broad Strokes sometimes, and at the same time, even though Kathy Bates is character and performance, frankly is so over-the-top and kind of meant Be kind of, you know, a little bit comical at points. I still think that she gives and and imbues that character with sympathy that a 1991 audience or was it 91. This came out, 1999, chatter that a 1990 audience wouldn't have been expecting.

17:48 Do you know what I mean? Like there's I think this performance is really ahead of its time. Even though there are elements to it, that are so over the top that it also still feels very 90. Yeah. The the movie really kind of has, I don't know, I'd have to watch it again to find the clear delineation but there's there's a certain shift in the movie where Reiner becomes less Campy. You must cheat. That's a good word. Yeah. And and it becomes a lot more terrifying. It felt like in the first half of the movie, there's just a lot of moments that feel like it's just a really cheesy Montage of Paul getting used to his new life.

18:35 Hmm. And I really struggled with some of the choices that Reiner made at the start of the film whereas by the end of the film, I'm Bought in. I'm 100% with them. Yeah. Well, and how does that translate to Kathy Bates and her performance? Hmm, at the start Kathy is trying to play off the innocent, you know caretaker and it works in certain moments but I think that Reiner almost over directs and uses the camera a little bit too much to give emphasis on certain things and sometimes it works. But I think sometimes with Kathy Bates at all it just doesn't always quite Click for me. Hmm.

19:19 Yeah, I think and I think you're right in that there is a sort of clear delineation in this movie where Reiner stops doing the silly camera tricks and he stops, you know, like there are moments of this movie where it almost felt like Rob Reiner was trying to mimic Sam Raimi and like his like goofy. Campy Evil Dead shots. There's a lot of Dutch angles, there's a lot of extreme close-ups that come out of nowhere and they happen. The first few times that Annie loses her cool and just immediately Really snaps and becomes a different person. And I feel like those scenes would have been so much more effective if he had just left the camera on her so that you could watch the facial transformation from completely calm to like unhinged.

20:00 And I don't think necessarily that it's a fault with Kathy Bates as performance. But like you said, when the movie settles down and reinert, lets his two stars. Do you know the guy was, I do the talking but you know what I mean? Like be the focal point. I think that that's when Kathy Bates His performance really shines for me. It's kind of like when they have the dinner scene together, and she is like it her most enraptured with him and really turning on the charm and being as innocent and she's really made herself up. She looks quite lovely, like, from there, to the end of the movie. I'm like, I understand why you won the Academy Award? It's I mean it really is. It's a very brave performance, it leans into camp on purpose.

20:43 It goes over the top on purpose, but I think she also gives it it quite a few layers that that character didn't necessarily have on the page. Yeah, I think what you pointed out is true. I think that they, because of reinders choices. It gives away Kathy Bates and, you know, an Annie Wilkes character way before it was necessary. Hmm. Like I think it's okay that they have some hints early on that. She's a little bit unhinged but it feels like from the very start you immediately know. Oh, this ladies Nuts. And, and then it just feels like maybe a better director, could have teased out the The romance that she was looking for of her being more Charming for a longer time period, before she snapped, I think that probably is kind of the hitting the nail on the head for what my frustration was with the early half of the movie.

21:43 So this movie is like a classic two-hander, which is just a way of saying, there's really only two main people in this movie and they cut away. Every once in awhile to this be story about the sheriff and his hunt for the what he thinks is going to be the body of Sheldon, but the other character in this movie is Paul played by James Caan and Brad. I don't know if this is going to come up into facts in a falsehood, I hope it doesn't but I don't know if you've seen the list of people. They offered this part 2, but it's like 15 people long before they got to James Caan. Yeah, and I was really impressed with a lot of the performers that they asked to do this and of course they reached out to De Niro and Pacino and you know, all of those actors, probably Nicholson at some point. And I'm Really glad they didn't use one of those guys, because especially coming out of the 1980s like 80s into early 90s Pacino, would not have been a good choice for this movie is just way too over the top, but as I'm watching this movie, I'm like, man, it is so good to have James Caan in here knowing that he described his character as completely reactionary liked his role in this movie is not to outdo. Any whelks at any point, it is to underplay and it's to react and I was As I was watching the movie, like, who else would have done a good job at this?

23:00 And I think like a Gene, Hackman would have been a really great choice and it turns out they offered it to Hackman. They offered it to Dustin Hoffman, they offer. I don't know if they'd offered it to Duval at any point. But there's a few actors that I thought were really capable of putting their ego in the backseat for the sake of this movie and James Caan who is known for being a very sort of Mercurial actor, like he likes to blow up and be big on screen sometimes. I thought he was phenomenal in this movie. Yeah, well and it was fascinating because the fact that you know, for me as somebody born in 1990 who did not watch Misery, when it came out nor watched it, you know, for the next 31 years of his life, Having seen the movie Elf first, there were certain moments of this movie where I was like, oh yeah, you know, Paul Sheldon, he eventually became a Publishing House, you know, kind of guy and had a man child that came to live with him and his family. But but for this podcast, the only movie we've seen James Caan in to this point, has been The Godfather where he plays Sonny who is the complete opposite of this character. And I barely remember that movie Bob Just isn't clicking for me at all at the the what know the with other the The Who. So no I want to.

24:21 I do any hear your evaluation performance though? Khan is spectacular. I think that his ability to ride the tempestuous waves of the Annie Wilkes typhoon. What if you how what a metaphor? Dude? How long were you sitting on that? Like I can just see like you just see your like yellow legal eagle pad next to you and you're like underlining tempestuous waves tempestuous waves, no, no, no. The his ability to manipulate her even as she is trying to be the Mastermind. And I think that's what really makes this movie. Work is the way that that Annie is trying to be a mastermind, and con is clearly the more intelligent person, but because of his physical Situation.

25:14 He's unable to turn the tables on her and you know the fact that they meet at the end of the movie, where they're at an equal point of like either of them could win the fight. I think that's like brilliant writing but as far as the Wake On and racks with her, I think that it's the most, it's the moment where he breaks and is unable to pretend anymore that makes me love him as a character. Doctor and believe all the other parts, all the more, the moment where he flips and he off, I believe it's like right after she hobbled him. Hmm. That that that's just freaking killed me, man.

25:56 I about lost it laughing at that part of the movie. So before we go to break, I do want to touch on that a little bit, you know, Reiner has his roots in comedy and there are moments of this movie where it is very clearly intentionally funny. And I think again, some of the over-the-counter Happiness, some of the cheesiness in the first half is also intentional. I think writers, trying to go for like a high camp horror thing. It doesn't necessarily work and I think again, it works better when it actually settles down into a, you know, an outright Thriller into the second in the second half. But even then, there are moments in this film, where I laughed out loud. There's a great cut away when Paul is going around the house and he finds Annie's scrapbook where she has been keeping the Mentos.

26:43 Those of all the people, she's murdered over the years. She's serial killer, she killed a bunch of babies. She went to prison, and she kept all the Articles from that. And he's flipping through her scrapbook. And stumbles upon the moment where he finds out that she's killed all these babies. And then it just cuts to the hallway and him like Wheeling across the hallway back into his room and closing the door like a way of just saying like nope! Nope! Nope! Nope! Nope! And just boom, just closing the door. It was hilarious and it's very intentionally done as well. Is when the the Buster the the local sheriff is driving with his wife, who is the Deputy Sheriff? And she like touches his leg in a very suggestive Manner and and he's like now none of that when you're in the car with me, you're my Deputy not my not my wife and those are little nice Goldman touches to and he really knows how to put a button on a scene. There's like I think it's that same scene where it ends with with him saying something like yeah. Sarcasm is the reason that are Marriage is worked as long as it has and it is sarcasm is the spice of this marriage. Yeah, yeah.

27:50 Yeah, Brad. So. I mean, I'd like to hear your opinion. Does the comedy work to help lighten the mood? Do you think it kind of muddies? The waters? What was your take on the sort of intentional humor here? Oh no, the comedy is absolutely perfect. I think it's especially true with the, the sheriff in his wife but he manages it in such a way that he doesn't make Buster a Ridiculous character, like it, he makes him feel really real and like, a living and breathing person that I believe would exist in small-town, Colorado, I guess, for me, the, the comedy mostly exists outside of Annie's house in this movie, which almost like thematically reinforces that.

28:35 Like the real world is still going on, outside of Paul's existence, that people are still, you know, Cracking jokes about, you know, still wanting to make love after being married for 50 years. And that that day-to-day existence is still happening. Which, you know, conversely serves to heighten the tension of what Paul is facing this life-or-death situation. So I yeah man, I think the, the comedy is really brilliant, it's just barely sprinkled into the film, but it shows how Reiner as a director can bring his In comedy into a completely different genre and use it to to spice up, what's happening in the film.

29:21 Well, and I think again, like it demonstrates, like you said the strengths that he has as a director, to also know. Alright, the script has hit a point where it's kind of the point of no return, there's no more jokes happening in this movie and even then Reiner looks at that script and says like hmm I actually think we need a little bit of a release valve in this one scene. And you know, Or me, I'm thinking of the scene where she walks in no makeup completely lethargic and says like here's your pills and he says Annie what's going on and she basically just starts saying like hey I think I'm going to kill myself and maybe you too and she pulls a gun out of her like nightgown pocket, like her bathrobe and says, I have a gun sometimes I think I'm going to shoot somebody with it. Well, good night and walks away and it's like the reaction shot on James Caan.

30:13 Just going like, what the hell? Now, click it, it's perfect. And it's just, it's like a little, Darkly humorous, chuckle, and it was really needed, at that moment of the movie. Yeah, I think it's really an example of how every single movie needs moments, where it breaks from what it's trying to do for a minute, you know, the there's very few examples I think for me of like movies that don't give up on what They're trying to do, you know, like Lord of the Rings would be an example where they just take it super seriously, the whole time and it works, but I think that in a lot of, you know, more common films.

30:55 It's really healthy to have a slight shake-up of genre, every once in a while to help the film feel fresh and, like, it's moving forward and, and that there's something happening in here that feels something like real life. All right, Brad. I think we're in a good place to break at this point. We'll come back. We'll talk. A little bit more about Rob Reiner, what we liked what we didn't, like about his directorial style in this movie. But first, let's try this old Overholt. What do you say? I'm really excited, Bob, let's get to it. Alright, so today we are checking out old Overholt 11-year. Now Brad. This is a whiskey that was sent to us by our friend on Instagram, the bourbon and Rye Club.

31:39 This is a sample that came to my house a year ago and I've been we're just kind of waiting to work it into the episode here. When I got sent to my house we were all pretty sure at that point that this would be discontinued it was released by The Bean Corporation as a limited release. Thing in 2020. They gave a whole overhaul to the Overholt Branch. They bumped it up from 86 to 90 Proof. They made it a non chill filtered thing they, you know, they just added the bottled and bond version back in 2017. So they've been doing a lot to expand the old Overholt brand. And one of the things they did was to release this limited edition 11-year, Rye in only two markets, Ohio and Pennsylvania, this brand initially launched in Pennsylvania and so they wanted to Honor the roots of that by releasing this only in those two markets.

32:29 So they were, it was the only time in my life, Brad in my whiskey-drinking life where I have had people from Kentucky, contacting me and saying, like, can you get me a bottle of this? It's like a. How's it feel now? That's right. Yeah, it's it felt pretty good, man. So all that to say, we were really kind of clinging onto hope that this might be renewed on a yearly basis or even just once in a while, but it looks like this really was a one-off. And so, I'm sorry to film in whiskey. Jen to do an episode like this. We usually try to keep these two things that are readily available or that you could find in your liquor store. But Brad, I'm excited to try something that is a little bit off, the beaten path here in this old Overholt, 11.

33:09 Yeah, and as I got into tasting this earlier, I found myself really enjoying this whiskey. As I got into the nose, there's a little bit of brown. Sugar sweetness, that hit me right off the bat. And then, from there, I got bits. Of corn, some of the rice by started to come out. And then I got this really nice note of like a salted butter that just hit me in all the right ways. I really like the nose here and I give it an eight and a half out of ten. Yeah. You're right this this smells more like a spicy bourbon than a rye and, you know it is. I believe it's like 70 something percent Ryan, the mash bill. It's not a, it's an undisclosed Mash bill but people have speculated as to what the mash bill is, but you're right.

33:54 It's Almost like a buttered ear of corn with a little bit of brown sugar and then some really nice rise spice on it. This is right up my alley man and I'm really enjoying it. So I'm going to give it an eight point five on the nose. Yeah. And then I, as I got into the actual palette, The Taste here is just how decadence not the quite the right word, but man is it nice? The for me, I got some butter. A little bit of like, a soft almond. To flavor the rice by started coming through in the mid palate and then by the end, it had all sorts of Oak and cinnamon going on. I thought it was a decently complex palate that hit a lot of the right notes for me Bob and I give it a 9 out of 10 on the taste. This is a really weird.

34:43 I don't know if I've ever said this about a whiskey before, but the Sensation that this whiskey has on my palate, almost makes it taste like it's a different temperature than it is like, have you really gone swimming in? On a really hot day in a pool or in the ocean or whatever and you've just gotten a mouthful of like, warm pool water make, that's kind of what this tastes like to me. It has a warmth to it that I'm not used to picking up on whiskies and I'm not just talking about the alcohol burn, but I think the alcohol is making my mouth actually feel like this is warm. It's really interesting sensation to have the you're right. The front of the palate. There's really not much going on. It just kind of tastes like alcohol and then towards the middle of the pallet that Rice by By starts coming out. The alcohol comes in waves on this so it's 92.6 proof. It drinks like it's about 114 proof, and it's not just say that it's harsh or anything like that, but it just tastes like a really well.

35:39 Aged Barrel proof, rye, and it really presents itself on the finish. And at the back end of the palette Brad. I'm not crazy about the flavor profile on this, but I think even just sipping it, I can tell that this is well-aged and pretty complex. Give it a seven and a half on the palate. Yeah, my I would say that the finish for me is where this really kind of starts to tail off. There are some nice notes that that come along with it, some of the rise sticks around, it gets a little less buttery and a little more okey. I think that there's just not enough power behind the Finish to really like move it through to the finish line. I will say, though, the thing that saves the score for me is that the the flavor A lingers for a really nice amount of time and allows you to really sit with the flavor long after you finish drinking it, so I'll give it a seven and a half on the finish.

36:36 I think it's solid. This is a this is a really weird thing to say. But I think that the fact that the finish on this is not spectacular and actually has probably the worst notes for me. Actually benefits the early part of the tasting on a second sip. So like I swallow this, it gets real. Okey and kind of bitter and you can tell that like maybe 11 years was a little bit too long in the barrel for this. And then I take another sip of it. And I'm like, oh, I'm actually picking up things on the tip of my tongue. That I wasn't with the first sip. I got a lot of really nice Green Apple notes on this the second time around, but when it comes to the finish and I guess what I'm saying is the only reason I can pick up those notes is because the Finish really dominates the pallet with these over oaked kind of bitter notes. It's not a bad finish and again like this is where you Get the power behind this whiskey, but I'm only going to give it a 7 out of 10 and that takes us to balance where I think again, I'll give this a seven and a half out of ten, it's definitely above average.

37:35 It's a really solid whiskey but I just I don't know of 11 years is the right age statement for this Brad. I don't know man. I think that this this balance is really nice. I think there's some really incredible flavors upfront that kind of mellow out by the end of it, but it gives it a decently Experience throughout. I'll give it an 8 out of 10 on balance. I think they do a decent job of balancing. The age statement on this with the flavors that you're experiencing to give you a pretty great experience. All right, that brings us to price. Now, this was $80 in the state of Ohio. I believe Brad when it was still for sale in the state of Ohio, MSRP was 75 bucks. You know?

38:21 Of course, Ohio charges more than MSRP. Even when they're like one of the only, The only markets it the game, but this is hard for me. I remember actually, having like a mini debate with our friend, Chris Blattner, the urban bourbon missed about this one because it's just hard to justify $80. But it's also really, really hard to find an 11-year Rye like this just doesn't really come across you know, the our desk very often here. So most other double-digit Rise are going to cost you triple more than double digit. Yeah for sure. So I mean based on its competitors, I think it's a really good value based on what's actually in the glass. I don't know that I would pay $80 for this whiskey, but it's also the most affordable double-digit age dry. So, where are you falling on this? I gave it a 7 out of 10.

39:12 Hmm. Like like I think that compared to its competitors, it's not quite as good as like a mick ters, you know, Rai but it's also a solid experience that II honestly enjoyed a decent amount and the fact that it is impossible to get now and was hard to get when it came out, kind of brings my score down some but I think 75 dollars eighty bucks is about the right place for this considering all of the the the the factors. So yeah. Seven out of ten. Yeah. I'll give it a 6 and a half out of ten on value and that brings my final score to a 37 out of 50.

39:54 Yeah. Just above you a few points. I'm coming to a 40 out of 50. All right, so that's bringing us to a 77 out of 100 or a 38.5 out of 50. This is above the point where we would normally recommend trying and or buying but you can't do that. So suck it, if you're at a bar and they have this, you're probably going to be charged a premium for it because they're never going to be able to replenish it now. So Brad I would imagine that a poor of this is at least, you know, eighteen to twenty dollars for an ounce at a bar by now. Would you pay that much to try this? No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't either not to say that it's not good, but it's just, yeah, you know, you can do this a little more limited things for this price point that are just better experiences. If you're in the hunt for limited things and money's not as much of an object for you.

40:43 Yeah. Go for it like, like, it's pretty good, whiskey. If you're really, like, rarely trying hunting type pores, there's other ones you should go. Or alright Brad that has been old Overholt 11-year. What do you say? We get back into talking about Misery. I'd be really really pleased. If you if you spent some more time with me, Bob. All right. Let's get you understand. All right, everybody that was old Overholt. 11, a whiskey, the Bob and I were both pretty good on ya. Pretty good. Pretty good. It's makes me feel nice and warm and fuzzy. Speaking of the warm fuzzies, Brad, two facts in a falsehood man.

41:31 I am am I right? I'm riding high this year. I know I lost last week, but overall, I think I'm still mad at me. They're like ten and six or ten and seven now. Yeah, you're doing, you're doing pretty solid Bob. We should probably actually We keep track somewhere it's just hard because I'm always editing episodes while we're recording other episodes. And so I don't know how many weeks behind I am keeping tally, you know, I'm above 500, that's what counts filming whiskey Nation. If you want to let us know as of the misery episode, where we're at, let's see by the time by the time they listen to this episode will have recorded like for other episodes, so that's very true. All right. So anyway, we're just going to say that I am a Perfect. 16 for 16 or whatever the hell it is.

42:16 Yes, and yeah, sure here. All right, Bob two facts in a falsehood. It's the segment where I try to lie to you and get away with it. So fact, number one, the filmmakers originally considered Bette, Midler for Annie, but Rob Reiner felt it was a better choice to cast an unknown character or Unknown actress, so that no one kind of had a feel for the kind of person that Annie would be. A better move, you better move. Ah Stephen King was initially reluctant to sell the film rights to misery because he was skeptical that a Hollywood studio would make a movie faithful to his vision. However King was very impressed with one adaptation of his Works.

43:03 Stand By Me in 1986 and agreed to sell misery. Under the provision that Rob Reiner would either produce or direct film. Fact, number 3, William Goldman, slightly famous writer, who wrote the film wanted, a more active character of the sheriff named Buster in the movie version, and he wrote the role with Mickey Rooney in mind. However, Rooney had already been cast in My Heroes, Have Always Been Cowboys. These are really good because I know a lot about the making of this movie. And there's definitely some truth in Everything you said, so I'm trying to figure out what little thing you changed to make it false. I know Bette, Midler was considered for this part, and I'm pretty sure that Rob Reiner was not the one who suggested Kathy Bates, I think.

43:57 William Goldman actually suggested Kathy Bates and Rob Reiner had never heard of her before. So maybe number one is false based on that technicality. Number two, I'm not sure if that's true or not. I know that again, he was really jaded after the shine. Inning. He did love stand by me. I don't know if he would, if he like clung to this book super hardcore and wouldn't want people to make it. But I'll keep that as a possibility. And then number three was about William Goldman, but I can't remember what it he wanted. A more active Sheriff. Do you in the movie? I like that. And I'm sure that that's that it's true that he wanted the sheriff to have a more active role. I don't know if he wrote it for Mickey Rooney.

44:39 Mickey Rooney is probably Mickey Rooney's pushing like 80 at this point, I mean, look at what's his face, though. Yeah, it's either, too. I don't know if I had at the technicality of number one, right? And then don't pick that as the falsehood. I'm gonna be really mad but three sounds the most false in general. So I'm gonna go with three Bob fact. Number three is actually A falsehood. Yeah. All right. Cheers, my friend. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. Yeah. All right man. Let's talk a little bit more about the movie.

45:20 I think this is a really good movie. I don't think it's a great movie and I think that if I'm being frank, it probably would have been a better movie with a different director and I like Rob Reiner. But when it comes to making movies that require a level of stylistic, Competence. I don't know if Rob Reiner is your guy like even you know we're going to watch A Few Good Men. It's a great movie and even like in the final courtroom scenes of A Few Good Men, if you look out the windows of the courthouse like there's the fakest looking trees you've ever seen like he just doesn't have a knack for visuals the way that other directors do I feel like there's a documentary out there somewhere about like set design in Hollywood and it's called the fake.

46:10 Akos trees you've ever seen, But like this scene is spelled seee. Any. Yes you've ever seen? I love it. I don't know, man. What do you think? What are your thoughts on Reiner as director here like from a visual standpoint? I think that the Dutch angles work for me in this like the the moments with Kathy Bates where she's like angry and walking out the front door and all of a sudden the camera is tilted, you know, like 45 Degrees off. Yeah, I think I think a few of those moments work. There's just about three of those moments, too many. Yeah.

46:50 That's fair. You know? And so it's stuff like that where I'm like, I think that Reiner is still trying to understand the Thriller genre. And if anything, you know, I don't know if he ever really returns to horror psychological Thriller land. Hmm. But But this, this would be an example of how when it comes to being a director. There's there might just be the reality, we're staying in your own lane can produce better and better results. Like, you know we've talked about this with Tom Cruise. He he stays in the action hero genre and consistently, does it better than everyone else? You know, nerdwriter did a video on Jack Nicholson and how he stayed in the anger Lane his whole career and does the emotion of anger better than Director actor. And so I wonder if Reiner faces that issue of like because he kind of jumps from genre to genre, he never really fully grasps each individual one and maybe he just benefits from some really phenomenal writing and some great acting performances. Yeah, I think that is the key here. Is that for all of his flaws, visually, he really brings to strengths to him.

48:06 Number one, his actors just love him and you can tell like he's A really good director of actors and we'll see it obviously with Nino Nicholson and A Few Good Men. And yeah he here I mean Kathy Bates wins an Oscar like he directs her to an Oscar and that is nothing to sneeze at. Right? However especially an unknown Kathy Bates. Yeah right. I mean she very, very little known around Hollywood until this movie and like she really does have Reiner to thank for that at the same time. I think that his strengths in comedy means that even if he doesn't understand some of Visual language of a thriller or a horror movie. He understands the timing and the pacing of a movie because he's so good at structuring scenes.

48:49 You know, you see it with something like When Harry Met Sally or spinal tap, he'll build and build, and build a scene to the punchline. And I was watching clips from spinal tap again, the other day and the way that those scenes build to their punch line in a really realistic way, is so reminiscent. And I think we set it on that episode of The Office of parks and rec, and the guy just Understands how to kind of Ratchet tension. And you can leverage that in comedy and in the Thriller, and in these scenes in this movie, where, you know, James Caan is kind of hoarding. All of his pills and getting ready to poison Kathy Bates and then they sit down to dinner together and you're watching it. And you're, I mean, you're so enthralled. And then when she knocks the glass of wine over that release that that almost comic beat is just like oh no. Like your hands go up and you put your hands on your head like oh no.

49:40 She spilled the wine. It's the same thing. When he's snooping around the house, and she's coming home, and it's a race against the clock, to get back into the bedroom. He's really, really good at the suspense, elements of this movie and I think it's because of his comic timing. Yeah and yet there's a few small things that irked me with that of like when he when he puts the penguin back we like everyone knows that that's going to get him caught. Yeah and yet for Some reason she doesn't notice it for like eight months, you know? Like however, long it is, it's like four or five weeks later. And she finally goes, I just saw yesterday that my penguin was not facing south and it faces South Paul and you're like, but that happened, like, 45 minutes ago in the movie.

50:33 So, there's like, little things like that throughout the film that. Yeah, and maybe that's just a continuity error, that's not it. Deal. But I think that Reiner is a director. Visually can struggle sometimes. I think sometimes there are certain parts of the movie that don't coalesce super well. But what you're saying is true, his timing and individual scenes is impeccable. Like I remember my dad watching a documentary on on Sinatra and everybody who ever worked with Sinatra. Just said his timing is just innately perfect he has a way of knowing exactly the The eighth of a beat that he's supposed to come into the song and when he's supposed to end, and he just had this impeccable clock inside his head and I feel like Reiner has that with his scenes, whether he's trying to ratchet up tension for comedic effect in a scene like the diner scene. And When Harry Met Sally, or when he's having Paul tried to poison Annie, which I would say might be the best scene of the film.

51:42 Yeah. I mean I would I mean obviously I would say that iconic. Hobbling sequence is probably my favorite scene and I also think that's his best seen visually. And it's because the camera is just very static and there's very simple setups. A close-up shot of her a little bit wider shot of her. A reaction shot looking down on Paul in the bed. You know, some once in a while an insert shot of a block of wood going between his legs, things like that. But what Rider does in that scene that is so brilliant is that she comes in and he's strapped to a bed and so you know, This is not going to end well and she starts talking about this practice of hobbling and she puts his block of wood between his legs and you know what's coming? Like you just know something bad's coming and he starts getting fidgety and he says Annie whatever you're thinking of doing, please don't do it and you can see her reach down out of frame and you can kind of hear the sound of her like rolling around the sledgehammer a little bit but you don't see it.

52:40 And then all of a sudden, She picks up the sledgehammer but she picks it up when the camera cuts to a close-up. And so she just kind of gently inserts it into the shot and almost like caresses her own face with it. And it's such this like tender movement to your point about her performance there that she you know, he could have really drawn out like oh she's dragging the sledgehammer, across the floor and know it's like you don't see the sledgehammer until the second before she hits him with it and that makes it even more jarring. And, and it's a moment like that, that sets up a later scene in the movie, when Buster is in the house, the sheriff, he's in the house, he's snooping around very clearly. Like she goes to get him a cup of hot cocoa and he's like creeping around the corner like smiling at her. Like yeah, you get me that Coco and as soon as she's gone, he's like almost sprinting upstairs, you know, for an 82 year old man.

53:36 Very loudly and very, very loudly and opening doors but the camera finally come Comes to a halt, almost like it. Had been moving behind the banister. As if it was coming up the stairs and it sits there and you think that she's going to walk up from behind him, but then it just sits there and you see him looking around and it sits there for just long enough that you kind of forget the feeling that she's going to appear and then, boom, she just moves on the camera. Yeah. In the same way that that he did with that, you know, still shot on her face. You hear it a tiny bit. It. And then a few seconds later, it slowly Rises into view and it's just one of those.

54:19 Oh, like, it's just so good. So, you were talking earlier about something that Reiner does with his insert shots. A lot in this movie where he's giving, he's always cutting too close ups of people's hands doing things, which again is like kind of calling back to the theme of the writer and it's something that I don't really pick up on. But once you pointed it out I was like, oh, that's actually kind of a Elliott touch. Yeah. He he constantly points out. People using their hands to do work. Like, I want to say early in the maybe even the first shot of the movie is his agent. Like picking up a phone. I want to say that that happens.

54:59 Maybe. It's when she's calling the sheriff of the town. But like, you have these pictures of people picking up a phone and using their hands to dial, you have pictures of Paul, you know, slowly? Taking a hairpin and bending it and using it to try and pick the lock to his room. You see her reaching in and taking two little red pills out and saying, here's your pills and you don't see her say that you just hear her voice in the the the shot stays on her fingers like holding the pills. And when I say on her fingers, like it is right up there on her fingers like immediately on there and it just keeps calling back to this theme of like the work that we do with our hands and what that says about us as people and I think it's I think for some of the flaws that Reiner has visually, I think that that was really effective for me at setting the scene for what we were to expect from the movie.

56:02 Alright. So with all that said I think it's time that we do let's make it a double Brad. I'm gonna be honest with you, I have not given a second thought to this yet and so I'm going to ask you to go first. Pair this movie up with something else to make a double feature so that I can use this time to think of something myself man. I'm going to Vamp for a little bit because I didn't think about it either. I I'm trying to think of good suspense movies that are also a little bit psychological. I mean like the obvious corollary to this is rear window, right? Like it's a claustrophobic be with somebody that's laid up with a cast on his leg. And Moreau Bob I've been thinking about this for a while and rear window is my choice for. Let's make it a double.

56:51 Oh man I can't think of it. Usually I try to do something really clever or unexpected and I got nothing man. I think we should just say rear window and call it a day here. I think, you know, let's just be honest. This is a very obviously hitchcockian film. I think that psycho would be a good choice. Yeah, for sure. I'm to pair with this. You know what, though? I'm going to. I'm going to make a completely different. We're just going off the beaten path. I'm going to pair this movie with another movie that involves a sheriff. Who seems like they shouldn't be good at their job and yet still gets the job done. You know what movie, I'm going to pair this with Bob.

57:32 I do not Fargo. Hey, there you go. I cannot tell you how happy it made me to realize that the character of of Marge Gunderson in some small way had to have been based on the character of Buster in this film. Like Tell Me That You Don't See the corollary. They're just a little bit. Yeah, I love it, dude. That /. That's perfect. All right, rear window. And psycho if you want to go like the obvious route and if not throw on Fargo because we could always use an excuse to watch Fargo, and they both have equally violent ending. There you go. All right, man, Brad, I'm gonna go ahead and go first with my final score, I'm going to give this movie an 8 out of 10.

58:18 I think that like it is made in a way that would suggest that it's like a seven and a half, but the script is really good and the performances are great. I would even venture to say that I think James Caan is even better than Kathy Bates who wins an Oscar for this movie. I think that tribe that Reiner does what he needs to do when it matters and that's what keeps this movie afloat. So I think it's an 8 out of 10. Yeah, I think that I'm Literally right there with you. Bob coming coming into this review. I was first 30, 40 minutes of this, I was like, oh this is like a seven seven and a half but the mixture of Comedy from from Buster and his wife along with the ratcheting up of intensity for Khan and Bates and their characters.

59:04 I was just hooked by the end of this film and so, yeah, I think that this is an 8 out of 10. It's a really great example. Or of how the horror psychological Thriller genre can shine and do well, without going over the top, all right? Those are our scores for misery, but we'd like to know what you think. So you could reach out to us on any of our social media accounts, Facebook Twitter, Instagram or Tick-Tock at film whiskey or you can jump onto our Discord. We're on there every single day. Talking to you guys, the people who listen to our podcast. You can find a link to the Discord at the end of every single one of our show notes. Notes. We will be back next week talking about.

59:46 I mean, one of the great scripts ever filmed in Aaron sorkin's, A Few Good Men. With one of the most beautiful actors ever to be on screen. And it's not to me more folks. It is Tommy. See my boy. Oh man, I'm excited for that one Brad. We will see you all next week for that. But until then, I'm Bob book. I'm Reggie, I will see you next time.