Men In Black / Willett A Blend of Straight Whiskeys

0:00 In 1997, director Barry Sonnenfeld and star Tommy Lee Jones gave the world a clever reimagining of what it would be like if we weren't alone in the universe. In 2024 we paired this match up movie with a match up of whiskeys. The film is Men in Black. The whiskey is Will it a blend of straight whiskeys. And we'll review them both. This is the film and whiskey. Podcast Welcome to the Film and Whiskey Podcast, where each week we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey. I'm Bob Book.

0:51 I'm Brad G. And this week we are in 1997 to revisit the sci-fi comedy classic Men in Black, a film that longtime listeners will probably not be surprised to know, but I was surprised to know Brad had never seen before. No, Sir. Re Bob. I don't know what you were doing in the late 90s, man, but you were not engaging the culture. I was not watching Alien films. Independence Day, Men in Black. Just Not A, not my cup of tea. Your. Mom was too busy raising you on Steven Curtis Chapman and Amy Grant. Dude, don't you know it? Yeah, I grew up listening in the Cleveland, OH area to either 105.7 with my dad, which was an oldie station, or 103.3, WCRF Moody Radio, Moody radio broadcasting station. And I do remember when 95.5 came out, and that's like pop Christian music and we'd occasionally listen to that and I remember being confused why there was commercials on Christian station.

1:58 Wow dude. And I was busy listening to the absolute bop that came out of this movie, The Men in Black theme song by Will Smith. I was going to ask you if if in your research you actually listened to the Men in Black song. I mean, I it happened during the movie. Did it. Yeah, at the during the credits. Oh, OK, OK, Got it. It's it's so good, man. Hot Take Will Smith. Not a great rapper. Oh, false. We'll go into this some other time, but hard disagree with you on this, man. All right, let's dive into talking about this movie now folks. If you are first time listeners to the Film and Whiskey Podcast, this is not a podcast about contemporary Christian music or the Northeast Ohio area. It's a movie about.

2:45 It's a podcast about film and whiskey. And this season what we're doing is we are visiting or revisiting the highest grossing films from each year from 1988 to 2019. And we have landed squarely in 97, where there was a behemoth called Titanic that actually claimed the number one spot. We have already talked about Titanic. And so we're going a little bit farther down the list to talk about Men in Black, a film that Brad, it's it's weird because I was very sick last week. I was kind of bedridden for a couple days and I got to watch a bunch of movies, which was great. But I watched Men in Black while ill, and then I had nothing but time on my hands and I said, well, maybe I'll watch Men in Black Two and Men in Black 3 after this. And I think the the extent to which the first one works better than the second two is because this is like a quote UN quote big budget comedy.

3:43 Like it has Steven Spielberg as an executive producer. It had money behind it, but it feels small scale enough that like all of the money for this movie went into the practical effects. And I don't know, like, I'm watching it now and when I hear big budget comedy, I think of like for Ragnarok, where we're like spanning multiple galaxies and everything's massive. This doesn't feel like a massive movie, but it feels like a movie where they put every dollar to good use on the screen. And I I don't really know that we have comedies anymore that that do that sort of thing. Yeah, the Men in Black. As I was watching it, I kept feeling like there's going to be something else.

4:28 Like I I feel like I've been trained over the last 10 years to expect there to be something bigger going on. And at the end of the day, there is just one little small story about aliens being told. And kind of charmingly so, You know what I mean? Like, it feels, I don't want to say it feels quaint because again, it is like a it's a big movie, but it's it's big in an intimate way, if that. I don't know if that makes sense or not, but that's kind of how I feel about it. Yeah, no, 100% it. It struck me as a relic of its time and it's it's a it's the type of relic I miss because I I didn't expect there to be any more than what happened in the hour and 29 minutes of actual like screen. Time.

5:11 Oh man. Which, oh, Brad, I know what you're about to say. You go for it. But let let us once again extol the virtues of the 90. 90 minute film. What a what a beautiful thing when I can sit down at like 9:00 PM and still be going to bed at like 1045 like. I watched an entire trilogy of films in like half of an afternoon. It was great. Yeah, no, I love it, man. Give me a 90 minute film any day of the week. Like you need more time than that to tell big, huge, arcing stories. But I don't always want big, huge arcing stories. When I'm when I'm watching a movie, sometimes I want a nice little cute story about aliens.

5:57 And I think part of the charm of this movie, I'm going to keep using that word charming. Because I, I, I do think this movie kind of is it's it's goofy and it's silly, but it's got some heart to it. But because they aren't trying to build out every rule of the world in Men in Black and they can just kind of mention off hand, like, Oh yeah, at any one time there's 1500 aliens on on Earth and most of them live here in Manhattan. And you're like, OK, cool. I don't need to know any more than that. But. But it also teases the possibility for more down the road. Like, it sets up sequels very well because it's not trying to like, you know, Bradford is as big of a fan of like, Dune as I am. It's not trying to like Dune you to death where it's like, yeah, and there's a million different species and races of people that you have to learn everything about their religious beliefs. No one cares.

6:45 Like, yeah, Will Smith, Tommy Lee Jones, finding fugitive aliens. Let's do it. Yeah, well, it almost has ATV feel, right? Like you, you watch like a crime show set in New York and it's like, hey, there's 5 million people in New York and at any moment, 150,000 of them are terrible criminals. Let's catch them all and then you have a show for 12 years. We are in the middle of a run of space themed movies in the late 90s starting I. Was I was curious about that, Like we got all these aliens, we got Armageddon coming up, Like what was was there something of like a cultural moment where we're like we've conquered every enemy on Earth?

7:26 There are no problems anymore that we can talk about in cinema. So let's talk about things that could go wrong in space. Yes, well, I don't know man. Like, I think it's it's a combo of the weird disaster fetish we all had in the late 90s and we talked about this a little last week and it's going to come up again with Armageddon. And yeah, space exploration. I don't know, it just seemed like a big thing in the late 90s. I miss space movies. We don't really get them anymore. Like once every three or four years we get a space movie and half the time they're released in like January. It's like a crappy dump, dumpy, wary movie. But but yeah, I don't feel like we get them anymore, Brad. Yeah, I I mean, I remember watching like Cowboys and Aliens back in the early twenty 10s.

8:09 That was like what, 2011 or 12? Hold on. So you've watched Cowboys and Aliens, but you've never got around to Men in Black? Yep. OK. I I believe Cowboys and Aliens was a dollar theater gag during College of. Course. Where we were like, yeah, it's it's a buck. I'll go spend a dollar. Yeah. On on Harrison Ford. And now? Now we're like, scrolling through all of the services we already pay for on Netflix. And we're like, it's free to watch this, but you can't convince me to watch it. Yep. Yeah, life sucks, man. We need to. We need to get rid of streaming. And hence the yearning for space movies in the late 90s. Life sucks.

8:51 Let's let's think about space. So Brad, we are here on Men in Black. It's the first time you've watched it and that is a perfect setup for our first segment of the day, which we call Brad explains. Brad's going to give us the movie plots with only 60 seconds ticking on the clock, so let's go ahead and hear your take with this little segment that we call. Brad explains. Brad Explains is the part of the show where Brad breaks down the plot of the movie that he has just seen, often for the first time. This is Brad's first time with MIB. I am very excited to hear you explain this movie because it's a very straightforward film. Brad, I don't think you'll need a full 60 seconds to spoil this movie. Do. You.

9:31 I mean I can take 60 seconds. Well, listen man, the time is yours. Do with it what you will 60 seconds on the clock and go. Men in Black is a film about aliens that live on Earth and the police force that helps keep them in line. Tommy Lee Jones plays a seasoned grizzled agent who has been patrolling the streets of New York for years and years and years and he recruits Will Smith to be his new partner in crime. Partner in crime, I should say partner in kicking crimes butt, am I right? Bob, some bug alien comes to Earth and kills a hillbilly and he goes into New York to try and assassinate some alien leader and accomplishes this and it leads to the Earth almost being destroyed but Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones kick some butt and take some names and restore peace to the Galaxy.

10:27 And that I am is Men in Black. OK, I think the logical place to start would be to talk about Will Smith, but we're not going to do that. We don't follow the rules of logic here on this podcast because I have a spicy take. Brad and I think my spicy take should lead the show today. You think that Vincent D'onofrio should have won an Oscar for his? Performance. 'Cause that is a spicy take, Bob, and I'm glad you just said it. It is a committed performance I like, I have to say. Yes, it sure is. I think that Tommy Lee Jones is better in Men in Black than he is in The Fugitive. There's my spicy take. That is a spicy take. So Tommy Lee Jones really leaned into the guy hunting criminal trope After he wins his Oscar.

11:13 He does, obviously. He does The Fugitive and then he does US Marshals later in the 90s, even to the early 2000s. He's making a movie called I think it's The Haunted or The Wanted. It's something like that where he's chasing Benicio Del Toro through the woods because he's like an ex Navy SEAL or something that snapped. He's doing this thing all the way through the 90s and then he decides I'm going to do this thing in a comedic way with aliens in Men in Black. Like, this is basically him being the FBI agent from The Fugitive. Except funny. And I have to say, Tommy Lee Jones is an underrated comedic actor. The guy's timing is impeccable, Like, he doesn't get a ton of punch lines In this movie. He's often playing the straight man to Will Smith, who gets the punch lines.

12:02 But The Odd Couple pairing of these two is, is pitch perfect. Like it really is one of the great duos of the last 50 years of movies, and it's evidenced by the fact that they got three successful movies out of this match up. But I think that Tommy Lee Jones is kind of the unsung MVP of this whole thing, and pound for pound, I like this performance better than I liked The Fugitive. Man, that that is wild. That here's the interesting thing in my research that I did for this Bob, because I do research and let me I'll have you know. I can. I can't feel the quotes around the word research as you say it. I mean, I wasn't doing research for the episode. I was doing research for two facts and a falsehood. Oh, OK.

12:49 I thought you were going to say you were doing it for your own edification, but. Just just for my own personal edification. Of all the movies we've watched, this was the one that I wanted. To be this sparked your interest, yeah, Yes. Tommy Lee Jones actually wanted to play the character much more openly, like Jokey and Laffy, and Sonnenfeld was actually the one who kept him on script essentially to say no, like you have to play the straight man in every single scene for it to work. And so I I actually would say like, yes, I am with you 100%. Tommy Lee Jo knocks it out of the park in this film. It's why I put him as the star of this movie.

13:31 But Sonnenfeld is the one who kept him, kept him in line to make sure that the performance was what it needed to be. Yeah, no, I love that, man. And I don't know, do you want to dive a little bit deeper on Tommy Lee Jones, or should we kind of move to other greener pastures now that my spicy take is out of the way? Is there anything deep about this movie, Bob? Here's the thing. When it comes to fugitive Tommy versus also who decided to keep the name Tommy for him was his agent early in his acting career. Like, yeah, Thomas Lee Jones? No. Tom Lee Jones? No, We're sticking with Tommy. But it's not Tom. Like you never say Tommy in a vacuum.

14:13 It's always Tommy Lee Jones. It's not even Tommy Lee. It's just Tommy Lee Jones. 'Cause then it would be too much like the American Bruce Lee. Well, no, I think. Isn't Tommy Lee the name of the drummer from Mötley Crüe that you know that they made Bob? You are asking the wrong guy. The wrong. Person. There was a famous guy named Tommy Lee in the 90s he he he partied and he married Pamela Anderson. So I I feel like feel like there would have been some confusion if you said Tommy Lee and then this guy showed up instead. I know that Pamela Anderson was the original Baywatch person, correct? Yes, that's that's all I might. Doing this podcast with you sometimes is just it's like Brad gives his opinions on the pop culture that he's unfamiliar with. Yes, 100%.

14:59 My opinion on Fugitive versus Men in Black Tommy Lee is that he's being asked to do completely different things. And so for me it's hard to judge them against each other because I think The Fugitive is the highly superior film with a great performance from Tommy Lee Jones. I think Men in Black, it's a home run in like AC Plus movie. You know what? I I, I will go even further with my spicy take. Do you know why I like this version of Tommy Lee Jones better? Is because this is Tommy Lee Jones's version of a Harrison Ford performance. It's like a a kind of grumpy, grizzled guy who has a light, a lighter edge to him and a heart underneath the grumpiness. And like, you don't really get that in The Fugitive. Like, I think if Tommy Lee Jones was unavailable and they were like, hey, Harrison Ford, can you do this? Harrison Ford could have pulled this off beautifully. That could have been a like a face off, like Harrison Ford being chased by Harrison Ford.

16:01 Yes. But yeah, I mean, I think that's, you know, we, we went into this a lot in our Fugitive episode with Patrick Williams about how, you know, where Harrison Ford kind of falls between a Costner and a Clint Eastwood. And I think that's kind of what Tommy Lee Jones is doing with this performance. It's just his version of that. Yeah, I mean, I I think that Tommy Lee Jones playing Harrison Ford, who's playing halfway between Clint and halfway between who's the other person you name. Costner. Costner it It feels like the inception of acting. And that's why this performance is better than the fugitive. Sure. Yep.

16:42 That's exactly why Bob, I am here for it. I'm curious though, where are you at on Will Smith? OK, so this was gonna lead to my question, which is a a much broader question, which I think we'll answer in pieces. I'm trying to parse out what you thought of this movie because you don't seem to be like it doesn't seem like you had as much fun with it as I had with it. And part of that is because I don't know what you think of Will Smith. You kind of brought this up last week with Independence Day and in and in that movie like you didn't criticize the performance. I think he just said more like I was led to believe this was a Will Smith movie and Will Smith is like 110th of this movie.

17:22 Yes, I love Will Smith in this movie. I think this is where he has finally kind of honed his on screen action star persona. There's always a hint of awkwardness and goofiness. He likes to insert himself into these situations where he's not like, you know, he's not playing the guy who's been a polished assassin for 30 years or whatever. He's the guy that's like I'm I'm the fish out of water in this scenario. And by the end of the movie, you buy him as a bona fide member of whatever group he's joining. And I think that's like, that's why Independence Day kind of works like he's supposed to be a really good fighter pilot before this starts.

18:03 But you're watching him learn how to fight this new enemy, Men in Black, I think kind of takes that to it's like logical Maximal peak. He is completely unaware of all of this. And by the end of the movie, you know, he's found a way to fit in. And I think that it's obviously like the the audience, you know, surrogate. Like we're learning about this as he's learning about it. And so yeah, man, I think this is like, if you're doing like the Mount Rushmore of Will Smith movies, I think this has to be on there. Not because it it might, may or may not be one of his four best performances, but I think it's one of the most crucial ones to understanding what he is successful at doing as a movie star. I think that Will Smith is really good here and I I don't think that anything you said is like incorrect or wrong. I I think it's a really good analysis of where Will is at in his career purely based on his performance. I'm just OK with him.

19:01 I I think that he the the way he jokes and the way he plays things off just often comes across so snarky and that I I I struggle with him in this role and and not that like anybody else would have been better than him. I I think the role is feels like it's written for Will Smith of the late 90s. It's just not my favorite character and I I don't know if I love the performance. It's good it it makes me laugh at a certain point. But overall, I I think Tommy Lee Jones just acts circles around him here. I I mean, I agree with that because I think Tommy Lee Jones is operating on a much more subtle register than he is. But like I I also want to follow up with asking you, Do you think that your problem is with his performance or is it with the way the character's written?

19:55 Because it sounds like what you're saying is that there's kind of like a like a meanness to some of what he says. That's not it. It doesn't come across so much as like fun banter as it comes across as like mean snarkiness. And so I'm wondering like, is it the writing of the character or is it the way he acts it out? I think it's some of the writing, but overall the character comes across as very insincere to me and I think that's my struggle with the character. You don't buy him as a as a hard NYPD cop. Not really, no. No, not at all. Especially when it ends with him rapping about the Men in Black there.

20:37 There's just something about Will Smith that just doesn't feel hey. Man, the good guys dressed in black, Remember that, just in case we ever face to face and make contact. It's so good, Brad. Yes, Bob, please. Please wrap it for me. I would love to hear your rendition. I like. I like my most monotone rap version of that too, right here. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yes. OK, so I'm gonna continue to lower your opinion of this movie by talking about the director Barry Sonnenfeld, who is not, like super well known and got his start as a cinematographer. And so if you kind of paid attention to the way this movie shot and Brad, you know neither one of us are experts at like, camera lenses or we try our best to explain like. For yourself, Bob.

21:22 We try our best to explain the look of a movie, but it's really hard when I don't understand film stock or or lensing or anything like that. But his movies and the ones that he shoots often have like that sort of, I think it's like a wide angle lens. There's like a bit of distortion, there's a bit of almost like a bug eye kind of lens going on and you notice it a lot even in like the opening credits of this movie where it's just following like a dragonfly that's like weaving in and out. They have a kind of whimsy and goofiness to the look of them. And I say all this because I'm going to really make you mad. Brad he he was the Coen Brothers cinematographer for about the 1st 10 years of their career, which means you will recognize the look of his movies because he was the cinematographer on Raising Arizona.

22:08 Bob, I just want to take this moment to say publicly raising Arizona sucks. It's so good, Brad. It's a terrible. It's like a 10 out of 10 movie that is. I wish I had never done this podcast with you. So I think it like he is probably one of the more successful film makers to jump from just being a member of the crew to being like the head honcho. And he doesn't make, you know, he's never made like the Oscar E movie. But I think that the tone that he strikes, matching the visual look of the movie to the kind of goofiness of the script, I think it it really fits well. It doesn't go overboard with the whimsy, like if it was Tim Burton directing this movie, but I think it has just enough of a look that's like, don't take this movie too seriously. It's not shot like freaking David Fincher was shooting it either, you know what I mean?

23:03 It finds a it finds a nice visual middle ground. I think it's. Not a not a Fight Club kind of movie can. You imagine if this was shot like Fight Club? Yo man, I mean I I think that there are moments where the cinematography just works. Specifically, when Tommy Lee Jones is talking to the the alien that's like running out of town and the aliens alien wife is having a child and the shot of Tommy Lee Jones just casually taking down info like he's a a street cop. You know, witness, you know, taking report on an accident while while Will Smith is being, like lifted up in the air by a giant tentacle which like, you know, let's just pause for a second and say where's that tentacle coming from, Bob I.

23:53 Mean. Who's to say? Who's to say it's a weird movie, but like the cities behind them, it's it's genuinely a really funny yet serious. Yet it it perfectly fits what this movie is going for. And then I don't know how they managed to do it, but they made a cute as hell alien baby and Will Smith, it might be one of his best parts of the film when he's holding it. And I to go back to what you said earlier, like Tommy Lee Jones is subtle throughout the movie and is just the incredible performance. Will Smith finally gets to be subtle when he's holding this little alien baby and he's like, you see it dawn on him that this baby is actually kind of cute and you're like, oh that like, I want more of that, right?

24:39 And then you. And then you never get it again. Yeah, and I think this is one of those rare instances where if the movie was 100 minutes long instead of 90 minutes long, it probably is like 1/2 point better as a movie as long as you don't pack it full of more gags. Like if you give these guys a couple moments to actually act and like give some heft to their characters, I think this movie actually works a little bit better. It it moves at such a madcap kind of pace that yes, you get a few moments of humanity from these guys. But like, I really do think, Brad, this could be like an an all time comedy classic if you just had like 10 more minutes of character development.

25:22 Yeah, no, I I do not think you're wrong. That's an interesting way of agreeing with someone. You're not right. You're wrong. I just don't think you're wrong. You touched a minute ago on some of the effects of the movie, especially like that cute alien baby. And I think watching this film, one of the things that I really miss is practical effects in movies. And this movie has such a tangible like textile, like you can feel, you can smell this movie because there is just so much bug guts, there's so much slime and it really, really works. And I like it's one of those things that pisses me off because I'm like it can't cost that much to throw a bucket of slime on someone. But I feel like that works so much better than CGI ING bug guts on to somebody when you could just tell like. I feel like like CGI ING slime has to cost more then just get it like calling Nickelodeon and being like hey, do you have any leftover?

26:25 Let's get some slime, please. Yeah, yeah. But this movie, I think for the most part, I think the effects hold up really, really, really well. And like, there are some moments, especially the the end of the movie, where the bug creature fully reveals itself, where the the early CGI of this movie is just absolutely terrible. But then there are also scenes like the one you're talking about where he's delivering this baby in the background of a shot and there's tentacles coming out the windows, and those are clearly CGI. But because it's so small in the frame, even though it's not great CGI, it totally works. Noticeable. Yeah, yeah, it it totally works. And that's that's the beauty of knowing your limitations and like recognizing, hey, CG isn't our strength right now. We're just going to put it a little ways off in the background and not make it the main thing because the when they do make it the main thing, you're right, it does, it doesn't work right.

27:18 I don't think that. I think that's kind of the fatal flaw of film makers nowadays. It's not even that they use too much CGI, and they kind of do, but it's that they they're convinced that the CGI has reached the point of being indistinguishable from reality, and it clearly hasn't. And so, like you always as a filmmaker, you need to understand it's not where it needs to be yet and it's going to look worse in 20 years. So, like, how do we use it to accentuate a shot without it being the main focus of a shot? And and this is a really great example of that, because like I said at the end of the film, when the alien sheds its Vincent D'onofrio skin and you see this giant cockroach looking thing, it looks like a cartoon. Like it's not even remotely realistic looking. And that's really the only point of the film where the CGI is actually the focus of a shot.

28:09 So when you're paying attention to the CGI, it looks awful. Do you know what I mean? But like, I think that's what makes Sonnenfeld, for the most part a pretty good film maker here is that he knows how to disguise it most of the time. Yeah, Bob, I I don't think you're wrong. Hey, before we go to break, I want to talk about a couple more people in this movie. It's got a pretty great cast. I don't really have much to say about Linda Fiorentino in this movie. I don't have much to say about Rip Torn as Zed, the leader of MIB, but I do want to touch on Vincent d'onofrio and his wife because they are by far my two favorite characters in this movie. Oh yeah, so the wife's name is Siobhan Fallon and she must have gotten married because now she's listed as Siobhan Fallon Hogan on IMDb. This is a woman who is a personal hero of mine due to this performance and the the the performance she turned in in Forrest Gump.

29:07 She is the school bus driver in Forrest Gump that talks to both Forrest and Little Forest and has a cigarette hanging out of her mouth both times. And Forrest is like I can't talk to strangers and she goes, I'm Dorothy Harris and the cigarettes just flapping up. This woman rules. I don't know anything else about her, but she is a legend based on just these two performances. Yeah, I absolutely loved her. I think that it's little side quirky characters like this that make a great comedy. Like you, you have to have great performances from your leads. But man, when you have just spectacular performances for your little side characters, it brings the whole movie to life in a way that a lot of other movies miss out on. And you're right, the the way she interacts with The Police and with Tommy Lee Jones is just like precious and funny. And I I could not get enough of them. It is like a master class in turning A2 scene performance into like one of the most memorable parts of a movie. Though because she does this thing, she makes this choice as an actress to pronounce her husband's name not as Edgar but as Edgar.

30:24 And she does it repeatedly. And it's like to the point where I actually looked up the script online. It's just it's just typed out as like what's wrong with you Edgar. But she's goes Edgar. Edgar. Your skin is hanging off of you Edgar. I laughed out loud. Dude it was so funny to hear her repeatedly Just call this man Edgar and the like. Those few moments you get between her and and D'onofrio, who is like like the whole point of his character is he gets killed by an alien who then sucks out all his flesh and uses his skin as like, a costume. And so his skin is literally hanging off of him. He can't use his limbs properly. D'onofrio is just going for it and I have to say, like, it freaking works.

31:12 It's like exactly what's needed for what this movie is trying to go for Brad. Yeah, you you talked earlier about like setting the tone for a film. I think that D'onofrio's performance sets the tone for how ridiculous and quirky and over the top this movie is going to be. And I I I if I had to rank performances, I think I would go Tommy D'onofrio and then Will Smith. I'm going shaban saying Edgar as #1. As like the far and away. Number one, this should have been the Oscar nomination of the film. All right, man, I think we're in a good spot. Let's hit pause here. Let's drink some whiskey. What do you say?

31:52 I'm ready, man. Let's get to it. All right, so today we are checking out a whiskey called Will It, a blend of straight whiskeys. Brad, this is a sample that was provided to us by our friend Wes. Wes, you know who you are. We're not going to spoil your full name and Social Security number this time. We're not doxing him. Not today. It depends on how good the whiskey is. If it's bad, then your full address will be posted here soon. OK, so this is a product that was released by Willett back in I think like 2021-2022. This is when Willett was still sourcing a lot of stuff. And so this is a blend of 10 year old MGP Rye and six year old Willett bourbon.

32:39 Now Brad, I love me some Willett products. We had one last week, wasn't my favorite among Willett products, but I've poured this out in front of me and I am falling in love once again with Willett because it has all these notes that I love on the nose of Willett. This particular one, I don't have like a ratio of what the blend is, but I have a feeling that it's going to appeal to both of us because it's got well aged rye in it and it's clocking in at 104 proof, which is kind of like right in our preferred like proof point. Yeah, anything 100 to 110, it often has a good chance of striking that perfect balance of complexity and just it coats your mouth really beautifully.

33:24 All right, man, I'm not going to beat around the Bush here. This is a pretty pricey whiskey, but we'll get to that in a minute. Let's just dive into the product itself. Brad on the nose, I am picking up what we like to refer to as the Willit Funk. There is on Willit products. There's just this really, really strong rose petal and kind of sawdusty note, and that's here. But I will say because it's being blended with other products and I don't know if it's the MGP rye or if it's the Willit bourbon that's doing this. It it's like you cut the amount of that aroma in half. It's still there, but now it's kind of layered in. There is like a subtle secondary note. You've got beautiful notes of like caramel and brown sugar and Maple to start with. You get up like a little punch of rye grain and then you get that rose petal underneath it all. And I think it makes for a much more complex and intriguing nose than most Willett products do.

34:18 I'm going to give this an 8 1/2 on the nose Brad. I am far and away not with you on the nose. What? Really. I was not, like unimpressed. It's an OK nose for me. It it almost reminded me of like pine cones there. There's some floral things going on. It's a little bit citrusy it. Today I'll describe the Willet funk as dusty tome is, is how I felt about it. What is tome? Nose tome. Yeah, like a book. Oh, like a really long letter. Like I wrote a tome. Got it. Yes. I've never heard. OK, Yeah, I got it. OK. Yeah, I came to a six out of 10 on the nose.

35:00 I I just felt like it was coming across way hotter than one O 4 even it it just was a struggle for me to nose and enjoy. There was definitely some interesting notes though. I think when it came to the actual flavour of this whiskey it improved a lot for me. I I got on the palate, some caramel cheesecake, the Rose petals were coming through, there was fresh bread, vanilla. This had a lot of really nice flavors. It had just a hint of rye going on. Not enough to get me like super excited, but overall it has a really nice deep flavor on the palate that I would give an 8 out of 10 to.

35:46 Yeah, I'm a little bit disappointed in the flavor, just from the standpoint of it not having a lot of the notes that the nose had. It's very oaky, which is fine. It's not Bitter Oak. It's just like it tastes like like if you've tried Woodford and then you've tried Woodford Double Oak, you can tell what the differences are there and where we know where the additional oak cask has imparted its flavor. That's kind of what's going on here. I will say, compared to last week's Willett product, this reminds me a lot of that on the mount, like on the mouthfeel or I guess on the palate, but the mouthfeel is significantly more like dense and viscous. Like it, it coats your mouth so much better at 104 than last week's product did at I think 94 proof.

36:29 I like this a lot. It just it doesn't have. I'm not getting like the rich cheesecake notes you are. I'm getting like pretty plain vanilla, a lot of oak. There's a little bit of like pink bubble gum, but it's not. It's not as deep and complex as the nose was for me, so I'm going to give it a 6 1/2 on the flavor. Yeah, and the finish came off a little bit lower for me. I gave it a 7 1/2 out of 10. It's got a little bit of caramel. The oakiness really takes over the citrusy notes, almost turned into like a lemon zest at the end. Overall, just a really nice solid finish. 2nd sip was much better than the 1st and I think it really improved on the finish.

37:16 On the 2nd sip there's almost like a almost like a Coca-Cola kind of flavor left on my on my palate on the finish there I'm not getting like lemon zest and I'm also still not getting cheesecake Brad, but I am getting that sort of creaminess. It don't. It almost reminds me more of like a tiramisu then it reminds me of a cheesecake. And it's funny 'cause I think we're getting wildly different notes on this today. Like my nose score was higher than yours, your taste score was higher than mine. And now on the finish, I don't see much overlap on what we're picking up on this. Which might be a good thing, might be a bad thing, I have no idea. But it seems like this whiskey has a lot more going on than either one of us is picking up on.

37:58 I'm going to give it a 7 1/2 on the finish and balance is where I'm really lost on this one because it has been a wild ride from the nose to this point, so. I mean. I I don't know, man. What do you think? I'm maybe a 7. That's. Why I gave it Yeah, it's a 7 for me. It was a disappointing nose that led to like a pretty solid flavour experience and so you know, that's a 7 out of 10 for me. I I don't know why. What? What What would make you give it a 7 Bob? I mean, I think part of it is we are not usually so far off from each other in our tasting notes. And these came from the same bottle, these samples.

38:39 So like, I know there hasn't been any sort of like shenanigans going on with the sampling. Now we have different, we are different people, we have different pallets. But for us to diverge so much tells me like, there's got to be something weird going on here. And also I was really pumped about the experience going in with the nose and then pretty let down by the pallet before the finish brought it back up just a bit. So it was just a little too up and down for me. But I can tell this is a well made product And so that kind of lands me at like, OK, I'm not going to, I'm not going to Ding it all the way down to A5. Maybe I'll rest at A7 instead. Well, that's this is where we're going to get into some difficult territory, Bob. This whiskey is $120.00 MSRP, so let's just let's just start there.

39:28 If you could get this bottle for $120.00, well, I'll give you my score. If it was 120 bucks I would give this like a 3 1/2. I don't know if I would go that far just because it is like it's all really well aged product and Willit products are just always more expensive. So it's almost like for me it's more like I I almost have to measure it against other Willit products instead of this. I do still think I like my Noah's Mill better than this and that's like half the price. But I do think this is only about a 5 out of 10 on value for me, Brad. So on the secondary market, currently what you're able to find this for is anywhere from 400 to $800.

40:11 Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope, Nope, Nope Nope. If you have a friend named Wes who has a bottle of this who wants to give you some, I recommend it like I'm coming out on on MSRP. Brad, I would come out to a 34.5 out of 50. So like just a hair below that 35 mark. I would recommend this. I think this is a good whiskey. I just don't think it's like a mind blowing, life changing whiskey. Yeah, I'm kind of with you with that at MSRPI would come to a 32 out of 50. So just a little ways under the 35 mark. Here's the thing I would, I don't know if I would hesitate to recommend this beyond the fact that it's just dragged up in price by the company name and to be frank Bob Willett doesn't deserve that. Like, I'm just going to say it will. It does not have that great of product to deserve the massive spike in price that it gets.

41:10 And I I just, I don't know man. I I think I'm souring on will it a little bit. I don't know. It's not my favorite distillery. I think that Willett's really, really high end stuff is some of the best whiskey I've ever had. We, you and I, Brad went to a a dinner last year that we were very graciously invited to by a friend where we we tried some very rare whiskeys and the best one we had all night was a Willit product and like. Was it though? That was my favorite one by by a lot and I think that bottle probably cost like 2 grand like it was it was expect you know. But also like I can say that I liked it so much because I did not have to spend $2000 to get it.

41:52 Yes. So, so like, yes, Brad, we're coming out to a 66.5 out of 100 or just a 33.25 out of 50. I would recommend the whiskey itself. I would not recommend going out and buying it. Yeah, not even a pour of it because the pour will probably cost you 30 to $50. Yeah. Even more than that, probably. If not more so, yeah, if you're spending 60-70 bucks on a a few ounces of this, it's too much money. Go buy four or five bottles of Rebel 100 and you will be much happier. Be much drunker, that's for sure. All right, man, let's get back into talking about Men in Black.

42:34 What do you say? Let's get to it. All right, everybody. That was will it. A blend of straight whiskeys. Something I forgot to say. During that segment, I realized as I was drinking it that the parts of the whiskey I really liked were the MGP parts, and the parts of the whiskey I didn't like were the will it. Parts Wow. It's amazing that your palate is so discerning that you can pick out exactly what. The nose was a will it nose and I didn't love it. And then on the palette I got some of those MGP classic 95.5 type of notes and was like man, I actually kind of like this whiskey. And then the finish was kind of a mix of the two and I just walked away going, oh, if they had just gotten rid of the blended part and just given me the 10 year MGP, I would have loved this whiskey.

43:29 All right. Well, I I am very impressed by your palette. That's what I'll say. Next, man, I appreciate that. And you should be very impressed by my current record in our next game, which we call 2 Facts and a Falsehood. Brad is going to try to stump your ball. 2 All right and what is wrong? 2 facts and a falsehood. 2 Facts and A Falsehood is the part of the podcast where Brad presents me with three items as fact about the making of this movie, one of which is a complete lie. Brad, I'm currently sitting at, I believe seven and two on the season. My, my I was just saying my guy. I am my guy. I am crushing it.

44:11 My guy is. Crushing it. My guy. Me is crushing it right now. Baba, at this point in your life, how how much does it mean to you to be dominating at 2 facts? This is all I have, man like this is. My, my children. Nothing. Meaningless. I You know what? When I tell my kids that I am beating Uncle Brad at a game, they get pretty pumped. I'm sure they do. They don't need to know how incredible I am they. Don't need to know what the game is. They're just at the age where they like playing games. Yeah, and Dad's winning. I'll take them down the memory road and and play Ken Griffey Junior's Home Run Derby with you. All right. See how that goes. Hit me with your two facts and a falsehood, Brad. Fact number one for the iconic suits in Men in Black, the costume designer made an effort to avoid looking too much like the Blues Brothers and instead focused on Cary Grant's Gray suit from North by Northwest.

45:05 Fact #2, the iconic neuralizer prop used by Agent K, was originally a modified vintage lava pen that director Barry Sonnenfeld often used during script readings. Fact #3 Vincent d'onofrio researched his role as Edgar, also known as Edgar, by watching a lot of bug documentaries, and in order to achieve his character's distinctive walk, he put on knee braces so that he couldn't bend his legs and taped up his ankles. Oh, Brad, these are good ones today. Oh man. OK, so #1 immediately sounded like it could be true to me because they have a much more tailored look.

45:47 They have a much thinner tie, and I'm a sucker for that grey suit in North by Northwest. However, you know all this about me and so I'm like, oh, this could be a Brad G invention. Who's to say, Bob? I don't know what a lava pen is for #2. That sounds like it could be made-up, but it does have a very like it looks like a pen, so who knows. Do you remember the I feel like in the when I was in elementary school I remember people would have like a pen that had like fake, almost like a lava lamp pattern on the outside and they're kind of like thicker than a normal pen. Do you remember what I'm talking? About No, no. I see. I remember like the thick pens, but they were always the ones that had like 15 pens inside of them and you would like move each button down to get a.

46:34 Different shirt. Yes, I remember those. So I don't know, man. I feel like you're making this up, #3 sounds plausible, but he's also like my favorite character in the whole movie. So you got me today, man. I'm going to just take a shot in the dark. I'm going to say that. I'm going to say #2 is the falsehood. Bob, you can continue to brag to your children that you are winning in a game where the points are made-up and don't matter. Oh, did I get it? You did is a lava. Pen a thing. Yes, they are a thing. So what you were saying is like that. That's that's true. Like, do you remember seeing them when you were a kid and things like that? Yes. Yep.

47:14 I I have never been exposed to the lava pen. I'll have to send you a picture sometime. You can't just send me a lava pen. You got to send me a picture of a lava pen. Yes, we get on Amazon and order you a set of 27 Lava Pens. Thank you so much. Commemorative men in Black stamped lava pen. All right, man, let's let's dive back into the movie. Where do you want to go from here? What? What haven't we talked about yet? I guess, like if you have nothing to talk about, we could talk about the extent to which this movie works for you, because I feel like I've been trying to pull it out of you this whole episode, and I can't really tell where you're falling on this movie. I love doing that to you.

47:56 It's my favorite thing in the world to do. Here's the thing, Bob. You're not going to give this movie like an 8 1/2 or a nine out of 10. I know that. I'm not going to give. Yeah, I do, Bob. I watched this movie. I know where it falls in the pantheon of film history, and at the end of the day, whether it's good or bad, this is just an OK movie. And I I think that there are moments of it that are funny and amusing. For me, I think the absolute best scene in the movie is when they bring Will Smith in to test against the the Navy Seals and Green Berets of the world and he drags that table over.

48:40 That is the the perfect element of taking itself too seriously and Will Smith making fun of it. Like that's the whole setup of the entire movie, right? We we all take ourselves too seriously and Will Smith just keeps swatting them down, right? That's the one moment where it comes together in this moment of just pure blissful comedy, and I absolutely love that scene. Other than that, it's a solid, funny movie. I I think the more interesting thing is why don't we get movies like Men in Black anymore? Because Because at the end of the day, this is a really fun movie that deserved to make good money at the box office. I don't know if it deserved the two or three slot, like I'm guessing it did.

49:29 But at the end of the day, it's very funny. It's got big name actors. It's got a solid director. At least in this movie he's a solid director. And I don't know why we don't have fun movies like this anymore that don't have to be perfect. They don't have to be huge. You know, I said at the start, I kept waiting for there to be something bigger that was going to happen. And even like, the big thing that happens in this movie, like, hey, there's this alien ship that's going to blow us all up, doesn't feel that world ending the way it does in like, Independence Day. And so there's something about this film that just feels really, I'm going to go back to your word, Bob. Charming. You know, I think I, I don't know the answer to your question, Brad, about why we don't get movies like this anymore.

50:16 But I think a big part of it is that Marvel really did swallow up these kind of movies. Like everything that was magic oriented or super strength oriented or even space oriented got folded into the MCU after a while, 'cause it was like, oh, we have superheroes in space. They're called the Guardians of the Galaxy. And like, I think Guardians of the Galaxy was kind of trying to go for the same tone as this movie. I've never been, especially the first Guardians movie. I've never been a huge fan of it because I think it has that mean streak in it that kind of turned you off a little bit in this movie. But that movie is like significantly meaner than this movie is. And so they just, it never quite clicked for me. It never quite charmed me the way that a movie like this did. Guardians Two, though.

51:06 Guardians Two got me right in the fields, man. But I think what's really missing is not just the tone of this movie, but the scale of this movie. Like, why can't we just go watch a movie that feels as small scale as this and be happy with it? We talked, you know, like every time we talk about this, Brad, I go back to like the Sam Raimi Spider Man movies because they're like, they're big, massive movies that take place on this sprawling canvas of New York City. But they're always contained to like, one guy fighting one other guy or maybe two other guys over the course of a movie. And that's it. Like, no one's, no one's blowing up the world. Like, maybe someone threatens to blow up a building, but like, that's that's the extent of it.

51:50 That's the perfect amount of stakes. And I just kind of wish that we still got movies, whether they are comedies like this, whether they're action films, whether they're superheroes, whatever, that are appropriately low stakes. Because if the fate of the universe rests on every single movie, then none of these movies seem to have any stakes after a while, because they're just all you know what's what's the what's the phrase like? Par for the course after a while, Well. I mean, here's here's an interesting thought as the Internet completely changed the world and broadened our attention like our attention horizon of like what we pay attention to in the world, it seems like movies broadened the scope of what's going to happen if the heroes fail.

52:38 Like you know, and you have Independence Day, you have Armageddon, you have world ending movies before the mid 2000s, but it seems like you have a lot more films that deal with small subject matter. Whereas by the time you hit 2010 and on, it feels very rare to have what you said right. Like a die hard film where what's at stake? Well, the lives of like 30 or 40 party goers at a high rise in LA, like the and that's it at the end of the day. You know, sure, they might steal a lot of money, but it's not going to wreck the world economy. And so, yeah, it's just an interesting thought.

53:20 I don't know if as humans, attention span gets broader, not longer. It's definitely gotten. Shorter. So you're saying that the that globalization ruined movies. That's where we're going. Yeah. Got it. OK. I mean, am I wrong like? You know what, I I will say, though that I think these movies are still getting made on a much smaller budgetary scale. Like, especially like in the in the 2000 Tens, there were a lot of indie movies that had kind of, like fantastical elements to them. There's a movie with Aubrey Plaza called Safety Not Guaranteed that it was about like, oh, maybe we're building a time travel machine. Maybe it'll work. And it was like this tiny budget, like sort of sci-fi indie movie.

54:05 And it was fun. But like, you know, it was an indie movie. So they really couldn't go very big with like special effects or actually leaning into the sci-fi elements too much. And I think what I really miss is like small scale, big budget. Like why don't we allocate budgets to movies that are like, we're going to make this a real big Hollywood movie? It just doesn't have to encompass blowing up the universe, you know what I mean? Like, just put a guy in a skin suit and have him drive a exterminating truck around New York City. And like, that's fun enough. Let's do it, man. It's like a taking Apollo 123 spin off.

54:45 Skin suit guy steals a train. Oh man, Bob, I I think I've said everything I need to say about. Yeah. It's hard to get into our last segment of the day, which we call. Let's make it a double. We're near the end of the episodes of Things listening to the film and Whisk. Let's pair another film with this one, even if it's struggling. It's a final segment of the day. Now let's make it a double. Let's make it a double is the part of the program where we pick a movie to pair up with this one to make the perfect double feature. That was the most P words I said in one sentence ever. Brad. It sure is, Bob. I I think for me, with today's Let's make it a double, I I was thinking about going in a similar, you know, in the same decade, similar kind of campiness level of a film. I was thinking about Galaxy Quest, but I think I'm actually going to go with a movie that I actually want people to watch because I think it's a a better version of a space comedy. I'm going to recommend 2005's Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

55:49 A movie that I have never seen. Brad. Oh Bob, once again, probably like a 7 1/2 out of 10. Nothing that's going to shake the foundations of cinema, but just a really funny Martin Freeman performance based on what might be the funniest book ever written. See, that was the thing. When I was like a teenager, I remember a lot of people telling me you need to read Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. It's such a fun book. And I I don't know exactly how long the book is, but I remember thinking like that's a little bit too long for me to want to read write this moment. And then like every time I had the option to read it, I just never did. And then I I learned they were making a movie and then the movie came out and all I heard was not only is it not as good as the book, it's just not that good.

56:36 And so I just never bothered to watch the movie. Yeah, see, that's disappointing. It's a it's a fun little romp of a movie. Zooey Deschanel. Martin Freeman. Maybe I'll check it out, Brett, I am going to go with Galaxy Quest as my Let's make, Yeah. You are. I actually had a lot of trouble trying to figure out a movie off the top of my head that would kind of match the tone of this. And I thought I said Galaxy. Quest. And you said let's do that. No, it's funny, I I I was going to go with Independence Day because I do think that's like a solid pairing with the Will Smith connection. But I employed our friend ChatGPT. I've never done this before, but I asked it for 10 movie pairings, and of these ten, it came up with some good ones. But I think Galaxy Quest is the closest thing in terms of the goofy, almost parody level, and I don't think Men in Black quite gets to that.

57:26 Like, it's not parodying other old sci-fi movies the way Galaxy Quest is. But if you just wanted to have a really fun night of dumb, goofy laughs involving aliens, you could do a lot worse than Galaxy Quest and Men in Black. Yeah, no, that would be a really fun evening. Brad, I feel like I've let you down the last couple weeks, man. Because I think of all the movies so far this season that you hadn't seen, you seemed very pumped to watch Independence Day and Men in Black and it seems like you're a bit meh on both of them coming out now. I did not promise you like Oscar winning films here, so I don't know where your expectations were set, but but now that you've seen them both what what are your thoughts? I.

58:10 I think that culturally I knew more about Men in Black and I think Men in Black fit what my expectation was. My expectations were way higher for Independence Day. Like, I truly was thinking that it was going to be like a solid 8 1/2, maybe even 9 out of 10 action blockbuster. Like I I don't know, like like a Star Wars level, like just well made, great script, great characters. So I was expecting a lot out of Independence Day Men in Black. I was expecting to be like a 7 1/2 out of 10 comedy. And I I mean I if I can get into my final score, I like I'm at a 7 out of 10 Bob. I think this is fun.

58:55 It's fine. There's amusing elements to it. I I don't know if it's quite enough for me to ever come back and watch it again. I'm at a 7 1/2 on this one. And it's because, like, we talk a lot about certain genres of movies or types of movies and how they have a ceiling on them. A movie like this has a ceiling of like, a nine maybe. Like, if it was, if it was the most perfect expression of this movie, it would still probably only be a nine. And so, like, when you're grading on that curve, I'm like, OK, how close to being the perfect expression of this movie is this? And it's like 80% of the way there. It's like 80% of a nine, you know what I mean? So I'm like, all right, I can give it an 8. I think I'm at a 7 1/2.

59:39 I think this movie is going to get a higher score than Independence Day did because Independence Day is one of those movies that it's so long that you truly only do remember the good parts. And then you come back to it and you're like, oh, this is kind of a mess. It's a little bit of a mess. This movie is not a mess. It's very tightly constructed. It's really tightly written. Everything seems to logically flow. It's just kind of a fun little trifle. And I think that it it could be more if it wanted to. But as it stands, it's a 7 1/2 out of 10. But at the end of the day, what we say doesn't matter. Ain't that right, Bob? Speak for yourself. Most the the most important thing we need to know is what do you think about Men in Black. You can connect with us on any of our socials. We are on Instagram.

1:00:24 We're on TikTok on Twitter, formerly known as Twitter, what is now known as X. We're on Facebook, and that is all at our handle at Film Whiskey. Or you can find us on our Discord server. We're on Discord pretty much every day talking to you guys, the fans of the Film and Whiskey Podcast. We talked about everything from what we're watching to what we're drinking. We try to give updates on every episode as they come out. We have a special section just for our Patreon subscribers, so if you'd like to join us on Patreon, find us@patreon.com/film Whiskey, but we hope to see you jump in the conversation at our Discord as well. Brad, next week we are pivoting a little bit, but not too much because we're still going to be in space. We're drilling holes in an asteroid to save the Earth. It's 1998's Armageddon I.

1:01:15 Film that I have not seen. I am pumped the most 90s of all 90s movies and you will understand why I say that after we watch it, Brad. I'm super excited, Bob. It's going to be a 10 out of 10 masterpiece. So join us for Armageddon next week. But until then, I'm Bob Book. I'm Brad G. And we'll see you next time.