Meet Me in St. Louis / Hancock's President's Reserve

0:00 In 1944 director Vincente Minnelli and star. Judy Garland gave the world a refreshingly Charming picture of a family desperate to stay in St. Louis in 2021, we repeat ourselves Ad nauseam. As We Sip another Buffalo, Trace product, that's hard to find the film is meet me in st. Louis, the whiskey is Hancock's presidents reserve and we'll review them both. This is the film and whiskey podcast.

0:46 Welcome to the film and whiskey podcast, where each week, we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey. I'm Bob book, I'm Reggie and this week, we are looking at the 1944 Technicolor, MGM Musical. Meet me in st. Louis Brad. I think I've built this one up for you a little bit because I've been telling you this is one of my favorite movies ever and I'm opening myself up here a little bit. I'm being vulnerable. I feel like every time I bring a movie to you, that I really truly cherish. Its I mean, it's hard. It really is man, because I'm like, I don't know where you're going to land on these things. And, you know, I've been burned one too many times my friend. So I am entering today cautiously optimistic about this movie.

1:29 Now, this is the second film, we've done with Judy. Garland, after The Wizard of Oz, this is the second Vincente Minnelli movie, we've done after An American in Paris way back in season one. I'm really anxious to see what you think, but also to kind of, you know, jog our memories a little bit and compare, and contrast to those other two films that we've done, that are kind of related to this one. Yeah, I mean, on one hand, you have the Judy G Masterpiece Wizard of Oz which in our opinion is pretty bad. Movie. And then you have an American in Paris, which is one of the, it's just such a pleasant film. Oh yeah, like like am an American in Paris, it's just nice and it makes me happy and I like that about it.

2:13 Yeah. And I think at least for me Brad this movie has that going forward as well and it's not just that it's like an off Shucks, you know, simpler times kind of movie. But what I really love about this film and we'll get into it as we talk about it is that it's just the story of a family. Mele over the course of a year and nothing terribly exciting goes on in their lives, except for the fact that they might have to move away. They invest so much time and so much energy in making you believe that these people on screen really are a family and really care about each other. That you really do get caught up in, you know, the, the crushes that the girls have and the Mischief of the younger kids and then the idea that they might have to move away, I love that. This is a low.

3:00 Steaks movie because in so many ways, I think it does resemble real life that way and it's just so near and dear to my heart. Yeah, there's a lot going on for it and I'm excited to get into it. But before I start, you know, postulating on why this movie is going to be cast into the fiery. Furnace at the end of the season. I think. I think we should get into Brad. Explains you bastard. All right. Well let's let's hear it from the horse's mouth here. And horse is generous term for what I think of you right now. So Brad we know, this is your first time watching the film meet me in st. Louis. And so it's time for Brad explains where Brad breaks down the plot of the movie that he is just seen often for the first time Brad. As we all know, there's a 60 second limit on. Brad explains this season.

3:48 Do you think you can summarize the plot of this movie in under one minute? I think I have a chance to doing it. The film meet me in st. Louis is about a family. Known as this is going to be hard to remember, everybody The Smiths and the Smiths are led by their father, who is a lawyer, and their mother, who is a homemaker I assume and it really just kind of Chronicles. I mean Bobby already said it, it Chronicles their life for a year. The main character of the movie is Esther Smith. The second oldest daughter of the four daughters and we really just see her kind of I don't know she falls in love with the neighbor.

4:32 Boy, Johnny true it. She kind of encourages. Her older sister on a love affair of her own with a guy named, Warren who lives out in New York, then he goes to Princeton 10 seconds. Yeah, they find out, they're moving to New York, everybody's pissed. Judy Garland sings some Christmas song, The End boom nailed it. My favorite thing about that. Brad explains was that Some Christmas song is the all-time classic, Have Yourself, a Merry Little Christmas. Like, I love how you talked about it, like it's a song that is instantly forgettable and that no one's ever heard. You're the guy some song about Christmas Bob?

5:12 I'm not gonna lie under the 10 second gun. I did, genuinely did not remember what something she's saying? You knew it wasn't White Christmas. And so like after that it's like well in Giles forgetting some Christmas. Yeah, exactly. All right. Place Up on the Rooftop maybe. Yeah. All right, so you have explained the plot of this movie, I'm gonna let you kind of dictate where we go here today. If you want to start talking about like overall impressions of the movie we can go there. If you want to talk about Minelli as a director we can go there. We could jump right into performances if you'd like so. I mean, what's the most kind of burning thing on your mind when it comes to this movie? Honestly? Bob, for me, I think the reason this family works is because of 2D, the youngest daughter. Nice.

5:56 Her character the way it's written. And The way she delivers the lines the way her acting performance is just phenomenal. It's a great performance by a child actor. Yeah. So this was Margaret O'Brien, who was really, really famous in Hollywood. At the time, she was kind of, you know, the new Shirley Temple because Shirley Temple had become a teenager at this point and Margaret O'Brien kind of filled that void of the Shirley Temple role in the early 1940s. This is probably her most well-remembered role at this point and you're right. Brad. I mean it's not just that she Turn on like the little kid charm cause she does that really well, but her ability especially to cry on cue. Like there's, you know, the Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas scene which we'll talk about is is actually a very sad scene in the context of the movie and it Sparks this little girl to cry and cry because she doesn't want to move to New York City.

6:47 And she basically goes outside and destroys a bunch of snowmen that she's built because she knows that she can't take them with her. And it's, I mean it's a heartbreaking scene and Bubba, I don't you, I thought you said we're going to talk About the scene later. Talk about the song later, it's worth like a motherfuckin tight now, salmon. Oh okay. Okay. Gotcha anyway. She sells it really, really well, the end. Oh wow, that came so much faster than I was hoping for Bob. I think that her performance gives like credibility to the entire movie, because a lot of the movie it borders on the line of Being Cheesy and her, Like impishness and her likability to talk about like killing people and it's just so weirdly Darkly funny in the middle of this you know somewhat schmooze e love drama just kind of light-hearted teen rom-com.

7:49 Yeah that I don't know why but that performance just grounded the entire movie for me and made me go. Oh, I actually like I like all of the Actors better because of 2D, I think that's like the highest compliment you can give an actor in an ensemble like this. And I totally agree with you, you know, she she says the kind of things that little kids say when they don't quite understand the consequences of what they're saying, like I have a four-year-old son right now and you know he doesn't understand the concept of death and so he's trying to ask questions to understand what like what death is and what happens when people die and things like that? But I mean, you know, he's just like so what happens if somebody kills this person and what Just look asks these various kind of socially inappropriate questions but it's because he doesn't know any better.

8:34 And this little girl 2D in the movie, you know, she's constantly talking about how her doll has a, you know, for fatal diseases and we're going to give her the nicest funeral in this old shoebox, I've already picked it out and like the whole movie she's talking about stuff like that and it just makes me chuckle because that's exactly how kids that age are. Yeah, and the other thing that kids just constantly We have done since the 40s is domestic terrorism in the middle of streets during Halloween and like we see 2D like rise to the occasion in the midst of that. There's an extended sequence in the middle of this movie and I've, you know, to break the movie down a little bit more. It's broken up into four chapters. Basically tells the story of four seasons over the course of a year 1903.

9:22 Leading up to the World's Fair, which is opening in St. Louis in 1904, and in the, the Sequence. It's a really extended Halloween seen with the two youngest daughters, and if you've ever seen some of those old pictures of how kids dressed up for Halloween, 100 years ago, this is, this does a really good job of replicating that like, they're very scary looking children. And apparently the custom at the time was to just burn Furniture in the middle of the street and go around and hit your neighbors in the face, with a sack of flour, and tell them that you hate them. And this was just acceptable behavior. And I just like, I I texted you that Brad. I was like, oh apparently just domestic terrorism was cool a hundred years ago.

10:03 Yeah. It's just kind of. It was the thing to do like, like, nowadays parents are worried about that one poison candy bar out of like the 10 million candy bars that get handed out back then. Man, you had Furniture, like, stolen off of your porch and burnt. Yeah, in the street. Yeah, so we pretty much have it. Lucky nowadays, you know, one of the things that I, when I was doing research on the movie, apparently, the production, Would you know, they had the sensors at the time they sent this movie off to the sensors and they sent it back with a note saying, you can't say that the kids are stealing Furniture to burn in the street, like they can burn it in the street, but you can imply that they stole it. So like, we were there getting really, really particular about what crimes were okay for children to commit. Well, honestly, that probably led to one of the funniest lines of the movie when I think it's the oldest daughter Rose, but it might have been Judy G but they get Off the phone and they're like, oh mrs.

11:01 Such and such, you know, their neighbors. Like I pulled the hammock off and set it on the front porch. Can you tell him to just put it back when they're done? Like like everybody knows that these kids are going to be stealing stuff off of people's? Porches. I kind of love that though. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, it's brilliant. It's like the children version of The Purge once a year. Yeah, they're just gonna come hit me with flour and then we're good for the rest of the year. Yeah, we're good. All right, Brad. So talk a little bit about this. Movie as a quote-unquote MGM musical, right? And I think that, for those of you who have seen old musicals made by the studio, MGM, you have an image in mind of what that means. It's, you know, your Gene Kelly singing in the rain and American in Paris, this movie. I think really kind of stands alone in that, it is a musical. But it only has I think five original songs in it and the the songs really arise out of the plot more than, you know, someone gets on stage and performs a tap. Dance number like you would see in a lot of musicals at the time.

12:01 And I think that really kind of made me think for a while about what makes a movie musical a musical. And this is a question that has come up a bunch, you know, the most recent version of a star is born with Lady Gaga. That really brought the question up again, to because all the songs sung in that movie are being performed by people who are playing performers, so it's not that they're like singing in their everyday life. Like the characters are Just they don't just break into song in this movie they do. And yet, I think some people might be tempted to not call this a musical because there are so few songs in it. So I don't know man. When I, when I ask you like, what would make a movie musical a movie musical?

12:45 What would your criteria be? I think for me this might sound weird but like so diegetic sounds in film are like when music comes from the radio and like the Characters in the movie can hear the noise. Yeah. Right. And so, I think that when, when the music that the characters are dancing to is non-diegetic, that's a pretty clear marker for me of whether or not something is a musical, does that. So like that makes sense when you're watching like West Side Story and somebody breaks into song is that diegetic like do we know if the characters in that world? No, they're Or like to them or they just talking and we were just hearing it as song.

13:33 I guess, I guess any time that a normal human being wouldn't be breaking out into song. That that's what makes it, a music. Yeah, I kind of agree with that. And so, I think this one has definitely qualify as a musical. Yeah, it does. I mean, there's a part of me that like, the song, when the, the wife, their mom starts playing the song on the piano and the dad starts singing. Yeah. And that like if the entire musical was A full of things like that. I don't know if I'd call it a musical. I cuz that's just them them acting how like, they would act in normal real life. Like, you know, they might be a musical family, she just plays a song and then changes the key because every housewife just knows how to change the key in a song to make it fit her husband's, you know, vocal pallets. Yeah.

14:20 And they just move on from there. But in the end I think you have other parts of the movie where you Like Judy, Garland singing at different points of the movie and like, sure her character could have chosen to sing in that moment. But a lot of times it's just Judy Garland singing because she's, you know, one of the best singers ever to live. Yeah, Brad. I don't even know how I'm going to get off this topic because first of all, I have an unrequited forever crush on. Like I have just always loved Judy Garland, I think she is. I think She is my favorite actor/actress, ever.

15:03 In the history of movies, Gene Kelly at one point called her the most entertaining person I ever met. And like, first for somebody like Gene Kelly to say that is, you know, really high, praise obviously. But watching this movie. She's So electric. You cannot take your eyes off of her and for her to make this movie at age 22, and to do the kind of things that she's doing from an acting standpoint. That's a thing. Like I just, I don't feel like She gets enough credit as an actress and way back a few months ago. Brad, we did our patreon bonus episode where our patrons asked us questions. And I talked about this in that episode that she has. This moment in this movie where she has a crush on this next door, neighbor, John Truitt.

15:47 She has kind of convinced him to come inside and help her turn off all the lights in the house. It's very, you know, it's filled with this kind of tension. Are they gonna kiss and him being, you know, a teenage boy, just shakes her hand. And and then walks off and says, well, goodnight, Esther. And she has this moment where she goes. Good night neighbor and she just looks down at her hand and it is just it's pitch, perfect. But the dramatic stuff in this movie to like bread, I mean I don't know why I assume you don't love Judy Garland as much as I do. But I think that even though she's one of the most famous and iconic people ever in movies, we still undervalue her. I'm just going to make like your Hackles raised here for a second. Bob, I love Judy Garland, singing voice. I don't enjoy her, just talking voice, I don't know what it is, but it just annoys me.

16:43 Like, it's not, it's not quite like nails on chalkboard like it's not, you know, the worst voice I've ever heard in my life but there is something about it throughout the entire thing where I was like, man. I just feel, I think I don't care for Judy Garland, a ton because I feel like her voice sounds fake compared to Buddy else's voice interesting and I don't know where that comes from. I think it's something that I've thought about with Wizard of Oz before but with Wizard of Oz, that's something I grew up watching so I guess I didn't really think about it a ton when we watched it but this time through it was like I don't know 30 or 40 minutes into the movie and I was like man I just don't know what it is about Judy Garland but her voice just look it's not my favorite. I'm so sad but you know setting aside your distaste The way she sounds like, you know, talk about the performance, though. I mean, I assume that you can at least agree with me that she's a better actress than people give her credit for. Oh, bro.

17:39 She's the best actress in the movie. Yeah. Like, like Far and Away her performance. Obviously, I think, I think 2D as a child actress, does a phenomenal job. But the way that Judy interacts with all the other characters in her like and usually this word has a negative connotation. Notation, but I'll use it in a positive way here, the way that she softly, manipulates people around her and it's always with a pure heart is just, I don't know. It's almost like adorable. You know what I mean? Oh, absolutely. That's a perfect word for it. Brad, and Brad. I think we should talk about the rest of the cast, though, because I could go on, and on talking about Judy Garland in this movie and we'll probably bring her up more and more as we talked about how Minelli uses her in this movie. But I do want to touch on some other people in the cast because I think pretty To formally top to bottom. I love everybody in this movie.

18:32 And once again, you know, Minelli stocked, this cast, with really seasoned character actors and one of the greatest Feats that I think this movie pulls off, is that. They so convincingly play a family. Like, I think, you know, by the Midway point of the movie, I was just bought into the idea that like, this is a family system. And this is, you know, how the dad operates, and here's the mom, who's really in charge and very quietly, leave Is this family where she needs to lead them. And here's the oldest daughter and everyone really seemed like at least on screen. They liked each other that they cared about each other that they were looking out for each other. I honestly think this is one of the more convincing on-screen families I've ever seen. Yeah, Bob I'm right there with you. I feel like when you watch this family, you can see the quirks and The Oddities of each individual character, that makes them endearing.

19:26 And then, you can also see why the Characters in the movie, love them, hate them frustrated by them are encouraged by them like you just yeah. Bob it just feels like a real family that you know especially like at the end of the movie when you know, Judy Garland is engaged to John Truitt. And yet she still tells John like, well, no, I need to go to New York with my family will find a way to make it work. And then moments later. She's consoling, her little sister and like, Guarantee you're like, no, like we will be okay as long as we all stick together and I think the reason why their family Dynamic works so well is not just because it rings true but because the audience wants it to rest through. Yes.

20:14 Like we all want to belong to a family like the Smiths. Well and that's the reason that the happy ending of this movie works. So well, it's because, you know, they don't move to New York, they stay in St. Louis, they decide, you know, the dad. Finally it Dawns on him. This is our home. This is where we want our family to be raised. You did think it was a fine opportunity, didn't you? New York? Hasn't got a copyright on opportunity, why st. Louis is headed for a boom. That'll make your head swim. This is a great town. The trouble with you people is you don't appreciate it because it's right here under your noses. The grass is always greener in somebody else's yard and the movie ends triumphantly with them at the World's Fair talking about, I can't believe it's right here.

20:55 It's right here in St. Louis. And the reason that That that happy ending works is because we feel as an audience that these people deserve a happy ending. Like you have watched them go through the trials and tribulations of a year. You've watched The Strain on the parents marriage a little bit. You've watched it Through The Eyes of their children and not wanting to move away there. And it's like, yes, I want these people to get a win at the end of the movie and so that ending doesn't come off as cheesy. It doesn't come off as overly sentimental. It He does feel earned. And, and really that that's the sign of a good director. What Minnelli Does in this movie, the way he carefully crafts, this family drama, he does it in such a way that you can tell that he genuinely cares about the story being told and that as you kind of weave your way through this year, in the life of the Smith.

21:52 Family, like you said, you get to the end of it and you realize you're just really rude. Ting for this family to succeed. And the big thing is I don't think it's tied to the outcome of whether or not they go to New York because I fully believe that that family would be successful even if they had moved to New York. But the happy ending is because they get what they all want. They get to stay in St. Louis and that and that's just I don't know. I think Minnelli Does a masterful job weaving the story together throughout the movie. Well let's kind of nerd out here on Minelli for a couple. That's because just like Judy Garland, I think Minnelli is underrated when it comes to the discussion of great directors, because this man had a sense for how to compose a shot that very few people ever had.

22:42 And there are just like, countless examples, I could get from this movie Brad, this is one of the most beautifully composed movies I've ever seen, but I think the first thing I want to do is kind of jog, our memory back to season one. When we were first talking about An American in Paris, I mentioned this movie. I talked about how Minnelli Does this great thing in some of his movies where he kind of builds a frame within a frame. And, you know, when you watch this movie and it shows the title cards were it's like spring and Autumn. It looks like a greeting card. But what Minnelli Does in many of the scenes is he kind of frames people inside of a window sill or something, and makes it look like the people in that scene or kind of in a greeting card. The, I think the best example is the first song, Judy Garland sings called the boy next door where she's you know, pining for John Truitt.

23:28 And the whole song is just her looking out the window. And first of all again, Judy Garland, incredible performance, I would say the first two thirds of that song. Our one shot one take. But I love that he does these little flourishes that just make. It's like, he makes the most artistic possible choice at every point in this movie, but it never really gets distracting. It always feels like, yeah. I totally understand why he went for that and I think it enhances. Has the viewing experience. Yeah. The shot that really stood out to me was when 2D was that the little bonfire that the Hooligans had created in the middle of the street and she challenges them all and says, well I'll go throw.

24:13 I'll go kill mr. Krakow for crack off or something. And when she walks away from the fire and the camera slowly like dollies in front of her, like the look of fear on her face with the fire burning behind her in the Children all like watching her leave. It was just a daggone. Beautiful shot, man. Well, and you got to remember to the size of the cameras back then, I mean, they were hundreds of pounds for him to move the camera the way he does. It took a ton of work and there's one really really great example from this movie. It's that scene where Judy Garland and John Truitt played by Tom Drake are going through the house turning out the lights and you don't notice it until someone points it out to you.

24:55 It's one shot like the cameras in the ceiling and then it Drops down a little farther and it floats into another room. They had to like, specifically build this set to accommodate that camera and from what I read, like, it took a lot of time to choreograph that correctly, but to see somebody doing that, that kind of work with a camera in the 1940s. When it was like prohibitive to try to haul a camera up to the ceiling. It's just, I mean, it's just a sign of a director, who knows what he's doing and is trying to make the best decision at every point and Minelli. Giving a little inspiration to, in Yuri to there is that? That's right. Brad. I do want to talk about one more shot in the movie though and it's because, you know, sometimes you look at a shot and you're like, wow knocks me away with the visuals or like, wow, that's a great metaphor. My favorite scene in the film I think is that scene that you were mentioning where the patriarch in the matriarch of the family are singing the song You and I and it's right after the dad has just announced, I'm moving you all to New York and does not ask for input on it.

25:57 Everyone's pissed. Everyone goes, their separate ways and the mom just calmly quietly, like goes over to the piano and starts playing the song. And it's this perfect marriage of music and lyrics and visuals. Because in the foreground of the shot, you've got mom and dad and they're singing. The song that goes You and I together forever. It's a song about marriage. It's a song about the commitment that is marriage and self-sacrifice and how we are in this thing together. Even when we're pissed off at each other, even when we don't feel like doing it, even when we disagree, we are in this together. And for me, it's the most poignant representation of what marriage looks like on screen.

26:42 And in the background, everybody else kind of starts to shuffle back into frame. Like they, they've cooled off they're going to come. Listen to Mom and Dad sing and what you have is the oldest daughter Rose, and she comes and stands about halfway down the steps. And it's a visual for us as the audience, that Minnelli's. He's trying to do something with how he's placing people in frame and Rose, comes and stands there. And then passed her comes to tea the youngest. And then after her comes Agnes, the second youngest. And then after her comes Judy Garland, and what Minnelli's doing is he is showing like visually the passage of time, right? Like he introduces their oldest daughter. So that you're thinking about, okay, like, you know, their firstborn daughter and then you see this little girl come walking by and you see a little bit. Older girl, come walking by and it's like he's showing us these people that are singing to each other committing themselves back to each other again, have been doing this for years and you watch the years pass as their children grow up before them and then, you know, finally the whole family comes back together in the room and it is just the most eloquent way of visually depicting.

27:52 A lifelong Union between people and like, every time I see that seen it chokes me up, because Again like the subtext is these people who are just really mad at each other recommitting themselves to you know, to self sacrifice for each other. But it's also this really great beautiful representation of what it looks like to do that over the course of a Lifetime. Well, and and really the only thing that could have made that scene, like slightly more powerful is if they had all done it over a glass of whisky and Bob, I really think I do know your Segway is getting cut off. I like, I literally, I went In on my analysis and I was like, Brad. I'm gonna blow this dude away with my analysis of this scene and you just immediately. Go to the whiskey segue.

28:38 How dare you sir? Yeah, I'm really intrusive whiskey, bro. You Brad acknowledge acknowledge my analysis. Yeah, it was great, man, killing it. Let's do it Brett.

29:37 Alright so today we are checking out Hancock's presidents Reserve, Brad. This is a Single Barrel Bourbon that comes from the Buffalo, Trace Corporation, our favorites. This is from their Mash bill. Number two recipe, which is rumored to be a high recipe. The Rye is somewhere between 15 and 20% of the mash bill, but as with most things at Buffalo Trace, they don't disclose the mash bill. But we know that this is related to Brands like Eh, Taylor and Blanton's, they both come from this Mash bill. Now, eh Taylor we both really liked Blanton's, we have been hit or miss on depending on which expression Hancock's is an interesting one, because this is the lowest proof offering from that Mash bill at it's only comes in at I believe 88.9 proof or only you know, forty four and a half essentially alcohol by volume.

30:26 So I'm really interested to see what this is like Brad because the blames that we tried which is again A Single Barrel. So it could I've been off was so so harsh at only what was it? Like 103 proof so maybe this will be a more pleasant drinking experience. Have you had any exposure to Hancock's before? Now aside from it, being a Buffalo, Trace expression. And we all know how I feel about my exposure to the Buffalo. Trace brand? No, no. I haven't Bob. All right Brad. So, let's get into it. What are you picking up your on the nose? It's just not very Powerful in any way, which, you know, whisky doesn't have to be powerful to get a great score for me, there's like some soft spices going on here, a little bit of cinnamon, a little bit of a baking spice that kind of mix nicely with like a fresh Apple Lee.

31:19 Add an a, I don't know some something of a nice fresh scent but you know, it's just kind of nice and generically sweet. I'll give it a seven and a half out of ten on the nose. Yeah, I think honestly Brad if you wanted to just You know, Define Pleasant and inoffensive. This is pretty much it. There's nothing in here that I would change. I still wouldn't call it a perfect nose, but this is kind of like the epitome of a very pleasant drinkable. You know, when you, when, you know something, you know, if it's going to be drinkable or not. And this one is, it has all your classic bourbon notes, which are like you said tone down a little bit, the baking spices are toned down. The alcohol is toned down. You get some nice oak on this and then you're right.

32:01 Brad for me. It's red too. Just Apple all the way. And I really like that the fruit mingles really well with the oak. We know that some Buffalo Trace products, Brad and I found way over oaked. So I'm looking forward to this because I think maybe at the proof point. You know, watering it down a bit, will really help to mitigate that. I like this knows a lot, but just like you Brad, it's nothing to write home about. I'll give it a seven and a half on the nose. Yeah. And as I get into tasting this, there's just not a lot going on here. I think. Feel like there's some sweetness going on. That Apple note is continuing on. For me it gets decently okey and a little bit spicy and it's not it's not really working for me.

32:46 A ton its pleasant on the palate but not great. I'll give it a 6 out of 10. Oh yeah I'm not really enjoying this on the taste Brad and it really did seem to flip a switch towards the back is very drastic front of Mount. You know front of your tongue. In front of your palate to the back of the palette, on the front of your palate. It's very thin. But like you said, very pleasantly, sweet. Lots of apple juice here. I wouldn't even call it apple cider. It's just like sugary nectar kind of on the front of the palate and then as soon as you kick it to the back of your mouth, you're right, really okey. Lots of smoke after you swallow on the finish and it does kind of it. Borders on going bitter and a little bit sour on the end and that's incredibly disappointing.

33:32 Because there was a lot of Promise up front and you know, we've both been saying this already. It's thin. It's watered down, I get that. But even at a lower proof point, I was like, oh this is gonna be a really nice easy sipper. It's not, it packs a punch but not in a way that I like because it just really hits you with Oak. I'm only going to give this a 6 out of 10 on the taste. Yeah. And and with the Finish once again, it's kind of generically sweet. There's a little bit of vanilla Tiny bit of maybe caramel for me but it has a short to medium Kentucky hug and it really finishes with a little bit of a rise spiciness that I kind of like I'll give it a seven and a half on the Finish. It's decent, but not, not overwhelmingly good. Yeah, for me, it's like, if you could pinpoint all of the probably eight or nine different flavors going on in the back end and then pick the two least Pleasant, those are the ones that kind of carry through to the Finish. It's really a heavy Char and kind of campfire smoke for me. And then it's this really bitter kind of grain tastes like it's not quite straight Rye grain, but I think the presence of that much Oak makes this really go bitter for me on the back end. There's not a lot.

34:49 Like he said, there's not a Kentucky hug, there's not a lot of chest burn again. It's only 88 proof. So I wasn't expecting much there but even when it just comes to the flavors that are left behind on the palate, Brad, I think. I can only give this like a five and a half on the Finish. It brings us into our balance score. It's a nice little poor. There's little pops of flavor here and there but nothing really stands out. I'll give it a six and a half on balance. It moves from each part to the next decently. Really, the flavor palate is where this really struggles? Yeah, I'm gonna give it a six. If I took value into consideration, I'd probably give it a lower score, but that's why we have a value category unto itself.

35:31 If you told me, This was a twenty dollar whiskey, I'd be like yeah that makes a lot of sense. This this drinks, you know the funny thing is I just bought a bottle of Benchmark the other day which was the very first one we ever tried on this show. I wanted to see how it held up. This is way way better than Benchmark but it's still at a proof point and it's still so simple and not complex that I would not be surprised if this was only 20 or $25 and that doesn't say much for it. I'm only going to give it a 6 on balance and that's where things get weird Brad because now it's For the value category and MSRP on. This is $50. You will not find it anywhere. Anywhere anywhere for $50. It is going for ridiculous.

36:13 Prices on the secondary Market. I when I just type the name of this product into Google. The second result on Marketplace was 235 dollars for a bottle of this. I would say that you are lucky. If you can get a bottle of this for $100, like usually the markup on this is at least double what they asked for it. And that is absolutely ridiculous. And I will say this of it Brad. I truly hated the sample of Blanton's that we got. When it just comes to the regular blatant single barrel. And I would still say that I would, I would find paying double the cost for that Blanton's. More justifiable than paying $100 for this, this is 25 dollar. Whiskey, that is, commanding a over $100 on the market. Yeah, you know, Bob with With us watching, such a pleasant movie in Meet Me in st.

37:08 Louis, I feel that today is the day. The the one day I will give a reprieve to the Buffalo Trace company, what? And and just say, you know what? Let it be man, I'm fine. I'm gonna give it a 2 out of 10 on Bali. Yeah, but I'm not going to rant about it. If you need to hear my rants, there are plenty of epi. Uh, so d'z go check them out. I don't even know what they are. You can hear my rants on Buffalo Trace, but today it's a 2 out of 10 on value. I also gave it a 2 out of 10 and I feel like that is being generous. If you've ever seen this bottle on the Shelf, it is the most kind of what's the word blase nondescript bottle. It has a really ugly kind of gold. Foil sticker slapped on it.

37:55 It looks like it looks like fifteen dollar Whiskey on the shelf and I'm really glad we got to try this. This sample was given Us by our friend, Tyler @tk, bourbon on Instagram, he lives locally to me, I would never have been able to try this otherwise because it is so rare and hard to find. And I'm really glad that I got to try it as a sample for this show because Brad, I would not recommend buying this and I really don't recommend trying it, like it's okay, but even a poor of this at a whiskey bar is going to cost you like, I don't know, 15 bucks. Probably, there's no way that a poor of this is worth $15. Yeah. Yeah. Bob, you're trying to suck me in to talk and crap about Buffalo Trace and I'm not going to do it today. I'll do it.

38:39 I'll do it for the both of us. Man. Do it, man, go. Yeah, you go for it. You got this. Bob, I'm coming out to a twenty seven out of fifty. Brad, where you at? I'm at a twenty nine point five out of 50, really taking Mercy on this one. I see. Now, I, I mean, you know what, this is the first whiskey in a while, Bob now that I'm thinking about it, I don't know the last whiskey, that you and I both came out. Under a 30 out of 50 on know, it's been a minute and we've had some bad Whiskey's on this show. Now I will say, like I don't think this is a bad whiskey if this was priced at the price of regular Buffalo Trace. Well, you know what it's supposed to be and was 25 bucks. I'd say like, yeah, maybe this would be a good entry level bourbon for some people.

39:22 It's just, it's never going to be worth. What? It's commanding out there on the secondary Market. Bob you do it? Push me here, do it. Screw Buffalo, Trace him. Why the hell do they put this whiskey out? And they expect people to pay freaking top dollar for it and they try to drive it drive it up because they only release a little bit of it and I make the mystery because they barely put any information about it, you have to go to sazeracs website, to find any, you know, information about this, stupid freaking bourbon. That's garbage. Like, what are they doing? I hate that the whistle. And now I'm going to turn the whiskey Community for a second, I hate that. Whiskey Community.

40:03 Buys their she like stopped buying Buffalo. Trace they put out stuff in such a just just uh manner that I just as a company they're garbage. Let the hate flow through you brat. We are coming out to an average of a 28 point 25 out of 50 or a 56 and a half out of 100. I do not recommend Bradley, I can tell you do it, here's the here's the thing. Bob, if they put this Out. Even at like, let's just say $35 and they made it widely available and everybody could try it and go. Yeah. You know, it's not quite 35 dollar whiskey. But okay. That's not the biggest, you know, dent in my wallet. I'd be fine with it, but they put it out at $50 a bottle. They barely release any of it.

40:51 They MIT just don't buy this. Just don't I'm actually feeling really good now because no matter what you were thinking about meet me in st. Louis Before this. I know now that you will like that movie way more than you like this whiskey. So Brad, what do you say? We hop back into talking about meet me in st. Louis, I would love to do that. Robert.

41:55 All right, that was Hancock's president's Reserve. We are getting back into talking about meet me in st. Louis and Brad, you've informed me off. Are that you have a new segment to introduce to the film. And whiskey podcast, I await this with bated breath, my friend. Yeah. So last week, we debuted a new segment called. Why the hell is he in this movie this week? We're debuting the new segment that I am going to call director Swap and Bob as you were talking about the End of this movie that this movie kind of inspires hope in any viewer. You know, I kind of talked a little bit about how like this is the family that like we want to be true that we want to be a part of and that really coalesces at the end of this film. It really just made me think about another director, really, a set of directors that are a little bit in a different vein of looking at the world and I'm just curious. Bob, if you Opt to directors and instead of Vincente Minnelli, what would the ending of this movie? Look like if it had been directed by the Coen Brothers by the Coen Brothers.

43:07 Um, well, it'd be much more nihilistic. I don't know. I'd love to see like the No Country ending just just, you know, superimpose on to this movie where 2D actually does end up just kind of killing everyone. Yeah. In a very cold and calculated way and then just wanders off. Then it cuts to John Truitt and he's like, you know, I had a dream that that they were going to go to New York and they were going to live a good life and then I woke up and then that's the end of meet me in st. Louis, but just cut to Black the end. Finn. Oh man, this is gonna be a great segment.

43:47 Brad director swap. I love it. Yeah, I'm a big fan so far. I just, I just couldn't get over the idea of Anton chigurh being In this movie, heads would go to New York, tales Mister here, call it, Judy Garland's. Like I need to know what I stand to lose and he's like no you don't call it your whole life. All right, I'm actually going to in the spirit of that. I'm going to resurrect a segment. We haven't done in a while and that is hot. Takes hot tea. Now normally hot. X is where we look on IMDb or Amazon Prime and we find one star reviews of the movie, we were reviewing that week. Brad, this is going to be the most unique hot takes ever because in doing research on this film, I found a book that was written about this movie for the British Film Institute. It's fantastic little book and there are talking about the fact that this movie had basically no complaints come into the studio afterwards, which is, you know really saying something, because people love to complain, they said only two complaints were received by people who had seen this movie. Be back in 1944.

44:56 Wait, so what you're saying is this is a hot take from 19 1944 where we do not excited. So one of the two complaints that was written into the MGM Studios was from a mr. AP Broadfield from Poughkeepsie, New York, and this is what he said, gentlemen. I witnessed the showing of your picture meet me in st. Louis, and enjoyed it very much. However, I did see a flaw in the scene in the dining room while having supper mr. With crunched on celery, which was of the Pascal variety. I do not believe that. Particular kind of celery was in existence in 1903. Thank you very much for the enjoyment of a really nice picture. I am very truly yours AP broad field, dude, that's it. This man, this man wrote a letter to just tell them, hey, I found it.

45:46 Is this man would would fit right into the dce you like fandom like this. Dude wrote into the studio to say hi, I recognized the celery and it is not historically accurate celery. This letter is proof that internet trolls existed before the internet. You know, nothing. Nothing against mr. AP Broadfield. I don't know what he did in his day-to-day life, but the fact that the thing that has survived him, the longest in on Earth is a letter that he wrote just shown on MGM about their anachronistic. Use of celery is is the funniest thing I've Ever seen, dude, because that that's the thing that you look for in movies, man is like Horticultural aspects of set design and like, you know, choices will eat it all meant to introduce another segment that just called celery watch, since the bubble bubble, bubble, that historically, accurate celery, I don't know.

46:46 I'm not sure this has been another episode of celery, watch, Brad before we get out of here today. I do want to talk About the song Have Yourself, a Merry Little Christmas and this movie does have really good songs in it. You know, for only having a few, the trolley song, The Judy Garland sings is one of the most famous musical songs and there's so many directions we could go, but I want to make sure we talk about. Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas. The song was written for this movie. Judy Garland is the first person to ever sing Have Yourself. A Merry Little Christmas and I think that the thing people don't really realize is that once the song, kind of hit the ABS. They change the words a little bit.

47:27 And the funny thing is, even the version that we have in this movie was not the original, like, the lyrics were initially weiwei satyr and Judy Garland was like, I am not sending this because initially, the something went Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas, it may be your last next year we may all be living in the past and she said that. So that's the Coen Brothers. Yeah, there it is. It was that sausage you to God? I was like, nah, I'm not, I'm not saying that, but what I've really noticed is that when you listen to the song on the radio, Yo, now, they only made slight changes, but they really do change the meaning of the song. So, in the movie, the song goes Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas, let your heart be light. Next year, all our troubles will be out of sight and you know if you've listened to on the radio, they change that to from now on and I really kind of hate that because I love the way that it's written in this movie and the closing lines of the song where, you know, if you're familiar with the song, it's the hang a shining star upon the highest bough in the V.

48:25 It's until then we'll have to muddle through somehow and not only does it fit the context of the movie really well, which is this family, that is really sad on Christmas and trying to find a glimmer of hope to get them through. If you look at the historical context of the movie like this movie comes out in 1944, it's the middle of World War two. Most people who are married to able-bodied men. In America are separated from them at this point. Like they've been drafted into the war, they're fighting overseas. It's a time where people are going through something and Christmas Is Not What It normally is and I just kind of hate that. We took a song that I wouldn't even call it a sad song, but I think that there are times in life where, you know, you have to be okay with making the best of what you have and to have a Christmas song that acknowledges, like not every Christmas is going to be this like, idyllic Norman Rockwell existence and that sometimes, you know, you just have to hope that next year. It's ailing me now or what's coming up against me. Now, is going to be gone and I hate that we've like sanitize that and we've changed it.

49:32 I don't know Brad, I'm sure that you noticed the lyrics being a little bit different in the movie than they, normally are what which version do you prefer? Or what did you think of the version in this movie? Well, I think that like with a lot of things that that American culture has taken something that points to just as simple reality which is this world isn't perfect. And we've washed it clean. Like you said, we've sanitized it to a feel-good black. Well, it's Christmas. And from now on our troubles will they'll just got now they're gone by and like the reality. Is that I think the original lyrics for the song point to one of the most beautiful like absolute truths about this world and the Human Condition which is that most problems that when we look at them a year down the road, They're really not that they're much more of a anthill than a mountain right?

50:31 That we're at a point though where it's just easier to pretend like no problem is a problem from the moment it happens and so I don't know. I just I love the way that the the movie presents like yep, we're sad right now. We're okay with that sadness and a year from now, it'll probably be a little bit better and and recognizing that a year from now it'll be a little bit. It better isn't impeding or changing the fact that I'm sad right now and that's okay. Yeah, well and I think that's the reason that this has kind of entered my Christmas movie rotation every year. Like I don't know that I would call this a Christmas movie Just because it has a huge Christmas scene in it, but it is important that the, the emotional kind of climax of this movie happens at Christmas time. You have this really wonderful, beautiful moment where Judy Garland goes to the ball and everything has gotten messed up. John can't go because he doesn't have a tuxedo. Playing Auld Lang Syne and she's dancing with their grandpa and they're both crying because they have to move away. And he sees John, enter, from across the room and Spins her kind of behind this tree.

51:34 And when they come out from behind the Christmas tree, it's her and John, and it's just such a touching, beautiful moment that leads right into, like you said going home and having to comfort 2D, who is like in hysterics about having to move to New York and she goes outside and destroys all these snowman and she's breaking down and you finally see the dad have his realization. This is not what I want for my family and it does resolve in this really beautiful kind of reconciliation where everybody truly understands like the meaning of Christmas and it wouldn't work if you didn't have like the Spectre or the idea of the sad part of Christmas hanging over the whole thing. And like you said, Brad, it really does just demonstrate. If, if you want to appreciate what you have, like you have to acknowledge both the good and the bad. And I think that is why this movie works. Well for me because it doesn't shy away from the hard stuff that family families, go through and yet when the happy ending comes at the end of the movie, it doesn't just feel like attacked on Hollywood ending.

52:36 It feels like a family that you have watched really go through some stuff. Come out the other side stronger and you know, I'm going to use my final moments in this episode to do Bob. I am going to disparage another movie. We watched because of how much better this movie it will please Mary. E Poppins is a terrible movie and when you look at Mary Poppins in light of meet me in st. Louis, I think you understand why? Because like, when you look at Mary Poppins, it feels like they're trying to create this family with these young children who are imaginative and inventive and and this, you know magical Nanny that takes them on adventures.

53:19 But in the end, there's not a single thing about their family that like Rings. True Whereas like this story just has such a beautiful heart at the center of it that you can't help but fall in love with the family that every single character is quirky and unique and fun and interesting. And the way that they interact with one another, the emotions they draw out of each other. It just really makes for a beautiful movie and Mary Poppins just misses on all of those fronts, you know? And it's really funny. You bring that up though because I definitely wrote down that the dad and this He was giving off major mr. Banks phibes. Like it's the same day, you know, he's not dumb. He's just not observant to what's going on around him and I really do.

54:04 I agree with you Brad. I think this movie is superior. I'm just going to go ahead and give my 10/10. Now, this is one of my favorite movies ever. It's my favorite of the MGM musicals. And I think when, when people hear that, you know, like I said before, you think about this thing in the reins of the world, this movie just means more to me than that. And I think it gets at something way deeper than that. And and that's why I cherish it so much for me. It's a 10 out of 10. I want to hear what you think though, Brad. Bob, I'm pretty close to you. I think it's a 9 out of 10 for me. I think it's just charming and pleasant, and fun, and nostalgic, and it hits you with all the fields. It's not a perfect musical for me.

54:45 I really, really do love it. I think I'm going to kind of end with a little bit of a Bittersweet note that I'm not sure what it is. About content that survives the test of time. Like when you look at music they like there's there has been so much music produced out there and yet still 40 years later, we're listening to The Beatles and the stones. And so many other bands have just Fallen by the wayside. And I hate to say it. Bob, as much as I genuinely love this movie, I just have a feeling that, like, 40 or 50 years from now, almost. Nobody will have remembered meet me in st. Louis. Yeah. And that does make me sad. And I think that, you know, I am trying to be part of the vocal minority, because I think that people who have seen this movie like advocate for it very strongly, I wish that it cracks the afi's top 100 but you're right. Brad, it's not as big and splashy and kind of like instant gratification as Singing in the Rain is. But to me, it's the superior film and I would love to see somebody listen to this podcast and decide to go watch this movie as a result.

55:51 I don't think you'll be disappointed. We are coming out to a nine and a half. 5 out of 10 on average, but we want to know what you think. If you've seen Meet Me In St. Louis if you're inspired to see it by our podcast, let us know you can find us on social media on Facebook, Twitter or Instagram at film whiskey, or you can give us a phone call. Let your voice be heard to talk about meet me in st. Louis, you can leave a voicemail by going to our website, which is anchored on FM / film whiskey next week. We'll be back talking about another surprisingly, sweet movie Cameron Crowe, Rose 2000, comedy, Almost Famous. We'll see you next week for that until then I'm Bob book. I'm Reggie and we'll see you next time.