Marcus Choi of "Hamilton" & Scoring Billy Wilder

0:00 As we get into today's episode, I just want to take a second, remind you that there's a ton of extra content available to the members of film and whiskey Nation who support us through our patreon. Check us out on patreon.com film whiskey. On today's film in whiskey, we are scoring out the films by director Billy Wilder, and we're doing that while drinking two whiskies from Virginia, Distillery company. Then we're going over to an interview with our friend, Marcus Choi who plays George Washington in Hamilton. That's all ahead on the film and whiskey podcast. Hey everybody.

0:55 Welcome into the film and whiskey podcast. I'm Bob book, I'm Brad G, and we're coming at you with another special bonus episode bonus. Episode feels nice to be doing a bonus Again. Brad, mmm. That's right. It does Bob. Now, as you all know, since our loyal listeners are, surely tuning into this, Episode. We're structuring our podcast season around mini series of films by particular directors. And we've just finished out our series by the director, Billy Wilder. He of Classic Hollywood Fame, Brad. We watch three movies by Billy this season, Sunset Boulevard, Stalag 17 and Sabrina and we are going to be measuring how good of a director.

1:39 This guy Billy is. Anyway, ma based on some metrics that we developed Brad. You want to fill the list. Earners in on how we're scoring Out Billy Wilder, we will be scoring him out based on he his ability to direct actors so the performances that he draws out of them. The cinematography how well he presents the picture to you on the screen the editing which includes the transitions from scene to scene, as well as the sound design for the movie, The cohesion, how well does the movie flow together? There is a field disjointed at parts. Does it feel like like a whole story units that make sense together? And finally how unique do these three movies make Billy Wilder mostly among his peers but also it you know, in the history of Cinema.

2:36 How well does he stand out? What does he bring to the table? That other directors don't exactly? Is he a singular voice in the history of Cinema? A singular voice Singular Vision. Billy while I'm down to the Wilder side, it was a pretty nice. Clint Eastwood you had going on there. Thanks man. I was gonna say, we've only done this so far with one other director and that was Clint Eastwood to kick off the season who fared pretty well, you know, Clint Eastwood is a darn good director and I don't think he gets enough credit for how good of a director. He is darn to Turner to their director. So we shall see how Billy Wilder does in our metric, and we're going to kick things off talking about the This is in these three films.

3:17 Now, again, just as a reminder, when we do these little exercises here, we are not looking at any other films in this directors. Filmography, you know, Brad and I have talked about Double Indemnity and the apartment and Some Like It Hot in Prior Seasons but we're pretending that if we were just figuring out how good a director is, it would be solely on the films that we looked at for this miniseries Zorro. I'm not gonna lie though, if we were basing this off of double indemnity, I'm like it hot and for my third one and the apartment tens across the board man, he might score higher than Scorsese and Spielberg. Yeah. Tens across the board.

3:58 Yeah, that would be incredible. Alright, let's talk about the performances in these movies. I think Brad that for the most part, they're quite good. I think my big issue is with a couple people in Stalag 17, and with overall, the character of Joe Gillis in Sunset Boulevard, however, I don't think that's a bad, Formance. So I'm kind of waffling here. I think I want to give him a 9 out of 10 because for the most part the actors pretty much knocked it out of the park. Yeah. I mean it's hard because Joe Gillis wins William Holden a Oscar in Stalag 17 so it you know, it's hard. It's hard to turn down a role that gets you a Noster for a movie that you didn't deserve an Oscar for that's, that's a pretty impressive feat.

4:45 All right, so yeah, I'll give him a 9 on performance. Is Brad. Where are you coming out on performances? I think I'm actually with you. I think that for the most part he just creates really unique characters and finds really great actors to go along with it. So yeah, I think nine out of ten is good. Alright, that takes us to cinematography. Now again, when we go through some of these categories, obviously we know that Billy Wilder is not the cinematographer on any of these movies. However, like most people in positions of authority, the buck stops with him. Him. So the way his movies look is largely up to him and the way that he communicates his vision to his cinematographers, Billy Wilder has never really been known as the most artistic director, when it comes to the way his films look and Brad, I didn't really get to talk about this during the episode, but I think that Sabrina might be the Wilder film. That has the most attention calling to itself camerawork that I've ever seen in a billy Wilder film. There was a lot of really good wonders in that movie. There were a lot of establishing shots that would be like, you know, panning up to look at the top of a skyscraper or like the camera movements were much more pronounced than they usually are.

5:56 And I feel like in most Billy Wilder films, it's kind of just like a static camera. There's not a lot of movement of the camera, so, it was interesting. I think we had kind of a variety of approaches and especially with Sabrina, I thought he really used the camera. Very, very well on that movie. I'll give it an eight and a half here. Yeah, I think in Sabrina, he definitely shines in this category. It feels like he did a really great job early in the film before she goes to France of establishing that she is small and young using the camera. And when she gets back, the camera can't leave her. Like she is the center of attention. And I think he uses that as a device to show her growth and how William Holden's.

6:43 Character and Humphrey Bogart's character. You know their attention is not on her at the start and boom it like she is the center of attention from halfway on. So I think it does a really good job with that. I'll give him an 8 out of 10. There's there's nothing spectacular here but there's enough that he's doing well to say like he is very solid. Okay. So the next two categories are ones that always kind of bleed into each other. We're going to talk about the editing of the films and then the cohesion or the cohesiveness of those Films. I think I'm going to give him a higher score on editing than I am on cohesion, Brad, but I could really go either way. Do you know what I mean? I think with the movie like Sunset Boulevard, it doesn't hang together perfectly for me, but he does a really good job of establishing mood and atmosphere and I think that's done with editing on the flip side. I think that Stalag 17 is a movie that could have used more editing.

7:38 It's like a really Shaggy movie, and it also does a good job at Polishing mood but I think honestly, if I was going to score that movie out, I would probably call that movie more cohesive than well-edited. Where Sunset Boulevard is the opposite. So I'm kind of struggling with a score here. Well and remember that that sound plays into editing as well. So if you're if you're thinking about the the scores for the films and I think I'm with you for the most part, I'll give him an 8 and a half on editing. I think that for the most part he uses Is the movement from scene to scene, really well, to establish, what's happening? I think that in Stalag 17, especially he does a really great job of of calling attention to certain things and moving the action along.

8:29 When he needs to. The only problem with the editing is I'm with you, there are certain scenes that just draw out a little too long but I think for the most part he is a really solid deserves a really Loud. Score here. Yeah. Brad I think I'm with you. I'll give him an eight and a half on editing. And then when it comes to cohesion, how would you score him there? That's an interesting one. I honestly, I think this might be his weakest category. I think that in all three films, there are just certain story beats that he either mrs. Or lingers too long on there are, there's moments where I feel little bit confused as to what's happening especially in Sunset Boulevard. I think I'm going to give him a 7 and a half here. Yeah, I'm going to do the same and I'm with you on the Sunset Boulevard and like it really bums me out to give Sunset Boulevard such low scores, especially since it's such a highly regarded movie but of the three, I think it did work. The least for me at what it was trying to accomplish again, I still think it's probably a better movie than Stalag 17, but Stalag 17 wasn't aiming.

9:43 So high. Do you know? Do you know what I'm saying? Yes, yeah. The thing, that redeems it here in terms of his score in this category is that I think Sabrina is a Act movie and that thing has together beautifully. So, yeah, I'm in the same place, you are. I'm in a seven and a half on cohesion. And I am like, looking at our last category uniqueness once again, I made, I'm trying my hardest to only evaluate these three films, but there's part of me that's like, I don't want to give Wilder low score here, but compared to his other films and the impact that those have had on my cinematic, Eric taste, these three don't hit the same way man. Sabrina does I still love Sabrina but Stalag 17 doesn't feel markedly unique for me in the world of Cinema and I mean if I'm being honest I think Sunset Boulevard would have to be the most unique.

10:46 You know, I tell it to talk to me, I'm not sure where I'm, I'm Fallin here. Yeah, I think it's hard to separate out what we know about Wilder outside of these three films. But I am still going to give him a 10 here and it really comes down to his writing. I mean, he's just one of the best screen writers of all time. No one really writes like him. I think if we were going to get really nitpicky about it, we talked about the similarities between Sunset Boulevard and All About Eve. So, I think if you wanted to say like, oh well, you know, Joseph L mankiewicz was writing just Just like him. At the same time, you could probably make that argument, but I just when we talk about the one-liners in a movie like Sabrina, no one can do it like that.

11:26 He had such a wit and it was such a biting wit that very few people had at the time. So, even on just these three films, I don't know that his peers were making movies like this. I'm going to give him a 10 out of 10. Yeah. I mean, I don't know dude, because if you really think about it, like mankiewicz was writing things like All About Eve at the same time. So, You could probably use that as a strike against Sunset Boulevard. I don't know if you thought about that. No, no, I thought it's just Dawning on me right now. Yeah, I I know you're glad you brought me along on this pot. You've been dwelling on that one for a while. Haven't I? I really have. This is this is gonna get dark for a second, are you ready? Bob my gosh, I guess. Yeah.

12:06 I I think one of the reasons I was going to give him an 8 and a half on uniqueness but I think I'm actually going to give him a nine and a half. and I think it's because like as I as I think about the movies, he writes, He's the only director I think I've ever seen with a willingness to dive into the territory of self-harm and suicide. Hmm and I like, I don't know of any directors I definitely don't know. Any directors back then that were really willing to take on that subject. So I think that that alone makes him a very unique director and his willingness to take on a topic that it has had a wild amount of social taboo in the room.

12:52 Just world of the 50s and 60s boy. I tell you what, you sure know, how to send us out on a positive note, Brad, don't you? You got it, ma'am. No, I'm with you, dude, I really do think that there is, there is a level of uniqueness just in terms of the subject matter that he's willing to Broach. And so, yeah, I'm coming out to a forty, three and a half out of 50. Brad, what are you coming out to? I am at a forty two point five. So not too far off from you. Bob know that brings us out to an average of a 43 out of 50 or an 86 out of 100 again. Like I think Billy Wilder is a much higher score in general than 86 out of 100. But even on three films that we kind of varied wildly in our enjoyment of it. Says, a lot about the guy that he's coming out to an 86 here. Yeah, yeah, I think once again, I truly think if we had his other three movies that we've watched on the podcast here, he'd be at like a 48 out of.

13:49 Yeah, he would be approaching a perfect score for sure. Sure. Yeah. Like Billy Wilder is truly one of the greatest directors of all time. If there's I think if there's anything to do here Bob it would be to blame you for picking these three movies. Yeah that's always what we should do in instances like this Brad. You know I will say this before we go over to our Whiskey's. You've now seen six movies by Billy Wilder for this podcast. If someone was asking you for a starting point with wilder, where would you send them first? Double Indemnity and Some Like It. Hot. I like that. Yeah. I think I would also go with Double Indemnity and then if you want to go the lighter route, go Some Like It Hot. I don't think you see Sabrina. Yeah, yeah honestly, I probably prefer Sabrina. I don't think you start with the apartment and it's actually my favorite, Billy Wilder movie.

14:37 I think still to this day, but you have to get a knack for the way that he balances comedy and tragedy before. You can really appreciate just how perfect of a movie. She the apartment is. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the apartment was our second one that we did with him. I think no, it was our third. We did Double Indemnity and Some Like It Hot mix. So maybe I should have had it pinned down by then. But I think I was a little cooler on the apartment than you were. Well we're going to go back and watch it at some point because it's too good to just leave himself open. I am excited to go back to it because yeah, I think that when you're looking at a director, like Wilder, When you start to understand a the world he came out of and you know Eastern Europe 30s and 40s and you start to understand how that shaped his sense of humor it deepens his films in a really important way and I just yeah Wilder is just an incredible director Bob well Brad. We've got two whiskies to drink from Virginia Distillery company and their vhw line.

15:44 So what do you say? We get over to those before we throw Over to our friend, Marcus Choi in our interview with him, let's get to it. All right, so, today, we are trying to more whiskies from Virginia, Distillery company. If you listened to our last bonus episode where we scored out Clint Eastwood, we tried for whiskies from this Distillery that they bottle under their courage and conviction line. And today we're drinking two whiskies from their vhw line, which is a line of finished Whiskey's that are partially their own distillate. It's Single Malt whisky distilled here in the United States, that is also blended with Scotch whiskey. So, Got, you know, International whiskey represented here, Brad, and then they finish them in, you know, various different things.

16:32 There's a, there's one that they call Brewers batch whiskey that's finished in beer, casks, and then there's also a Chardonnay Cask finish as well. But today, we're looking at a port, finished one, and a cider finished one. These are both clocking in at 92 proof. We can share a little bit more information about each one as we go, but Brad, neither of us have tried these off are. So we're both sipping these live. Yeah, this is a rarity for me, but my life has been fun. Fact, very busy. All right. Which one you want to start with, man? Let's drink The Cider first. I feel like there'd be a lot deeper notes on the port that might drown out our experience with the cider so I like it. Yeah.

17:15 So we're going to their website. This cider Cask finished whiskey is again made from 100% malted barley. So they finish this Insider casks that are primarily sourced from Enya cideries. And it says that they leave them in there for an additional 8, to 20 months. So again, they're blending a bunch of different finished barrels together. Some of them aging longer, some of them, not so much. I am very excited because fun fact about me. I really like hard cider Brad dude. My parents were in town the other weekend, and my dad has recently gone gluten-free. So, he's not drinking beer and he got, he loves Stella Artois.

17:55 Stella Artois makes a cider and it's incredible in terms like one of the best Siders I've ever had in my life. Wow. So if you are interested, insiders that are not Angry Orchard. Sweet. Go get yourself. Some Stella Artois cider. I can't believe we just gave them that, much free promotion on our podcast. Thanks for that Brad. Yeah, I just said their name like four times in the span of 60 SEC. Let's get back to the whiskey. We're actually. Thoroughly reviewing right now which is the bhw cider Cask Brad. As I knows this, I will say the immediate thing that stands out to me is that this doesn't necessarily smell like a 100% malted barley whiskey.

18:37 The cidery, fluence is really strong here. It makes for this really nice prickly and and quite frankly like apple cider. Heavy knows that almost brings it back around into like a bourbon or a rye kind of knows. Who I don't agree with you there. That it smells what kind of bourbon or awry for me it almost dives into white wine territory. Interesting, I think that the mixture of American and Scotch single malt mixed with cider. It gives it some really interesting floral notes it gets a little bit astringent for me I don't know.

19:23 Yeah, not in like a crazy way I but I'm with you. It does smell like a really tart green apple peel. It has some of those notes that we often get on like Irish whiskey. There is a brightness to it and I just took a sip man. I gotta say this is dangerously good Brad, like it has all the characteristics. We like in a kind of like Char Ash forward single malt whiskey but it also has that insane. And drinkability of a hard cider that gives it a crispness all the way across the palate. It Mellows out any rough edges on this and it provides like a really, really nice. I would say mouth-watering finish, which is not something that I expected to get on this.

20:08 I could keep sipping on this for like hours, man. Yeah, I think for me, the barley comes across strong at the start, which I wasn't expecting based on the nose, but once you get through that barley heavy, Palette. Yeah. It turns into like, it feels like you're drinking apple cider but it's a lot hotter than apple cider. And for me some of those like floral notes come through, there's a little bit of vanilla sweetness at the back of my palettes and then you're right. It is very crisp and tart throughout on your tongue. I think that this is solid. I don't know if I would say that. It's like something I would want to drink all the time. I am.

20:52 I'm really digging this. In fact, I think you know, if I'm thinking back as hard as I can to the four that we tried last time, only one of those really stood out to me and I really, really like that one. I would put this right up there like this is probably of the five that we've tried. Now, this is probably either my favorite or my second favorite offering from this Distillery so far. Yeah, it is. I will say it is very unique and it is very flavorful. I just don't know if it's hitting my palate. Quite right, I'm struggling a little But with the flavors that they are marrying here. Well, I think then that we should switch over into this port finished one because this is definitely going to be more up your alley. This is, you know, finishing in Port casks is almost as common anymore, is finishing and Sherry. Casks, it's a flavor profile that I think we're going to be really used to, especially as much as we've camped out in, you know, the Glenmore Angie's of the world. So again, this is a port finished whiskey, 92 proof, the port casks, that it is finished in it sits in for a minimum of 12 months, Months.

21:52 So we should have quite a bit of Port influence on this one. Brad as you knows it. What are you picking up on the nose? Yeah, this one once again, comes through, if there's anything, I know about Virginia, distillery in Co now it's that their, their whiskey has a unique knows. I don't know if it's their terroir, but that like I think if I drink this a few more times I'd be able to pick them out of a blind 9 times out of 10. Because even on this one, It is a lot deeper, the color is gorgeous. On this like this might be the platonic color. You want whiskey look like But yeah, the nose is really beautiful. It gets into almost like a dark, black cherry territory. There's a caramel Enos to this.

22:43 There's a little bit of honey, but underlying all of that is that strong barley flavor that I've been getting on all of the Virginia products. Yeah, and I will say that, it doesn't smell young that a lot of times with craft whiskies we can smell the youth and the kind of grain forward -, you know, for me this one honestly, Brad is probably Only the most ethanol, heavy one on the nose that I've had so far. The ethanol really jumps out, to me on this one. But underneath that, I do get all these notes that you're talking about lots of dark stone fruit, like, you know, like a cherry like a plum. I'm really excited to try this one because it does have those kind of caramel notes. You were talking about. I'm going to give it a sip. I can tell you've already been sippin on it.

23:24 What are your thoughts? Brad? Yeah. The this is their best whiskey like far and away for me, that the The initial burst of Plum and Cherry mixed with like a dark chocolate on the Mac and the my palate that it almost felt like I was drinking a really nice light roast coffee. I this this is incredible, Bob? Yeah. See this is the funny thing. I love it when you and I try like, exactly two Whiskey's and one of them is our favorite, and we are on opposite sides of it because that means that the next time I see you, I get to say, hey, give me the rest of that sample of The Cider finish and y'all bring you the port finish. I totally get where you're coming from. And as soon as I drank this, I was like, oh, this is the Brad G flavor wheelhouse.

24:10 But for me, the last time we drank their products, I talked about this to the Char heaviness on this almost kind of comes across as like, a cigarette Ash. For me, it's like a really, really bitter Char. And I think the flavors on this one kind of accentuated char. So, if you want something that feels like you almost have to chew on it, you know what I mean? Like, you sit down after eating a steak and you want a cigar and you want a whiskey that's like, mimicking, the experience of smoking that cigar. This is the one for you. This is like really robust and it'll put some hair on your chest, you know what I'm saying? The other one is much. More like I just got done mowing my lawn and I want something that's not a bourbon but that has the crispness and the lightness that will refresh me on a hot summer day. And so I think my favorite one was definitely The Cider finish and it sounds like the port.

25:00 Finished was definitely yours. Yeah, yeah. This port finish is really incredible, and I think that this just goes to show that they over at the Virginia Distillery company. They are just experimenting and trying really unique finishes Has but I don't know if we've ever had a cider Cask finished whiskey before. I don't think we have. And I will, I'm only familiar with a couple distilleries that are really doing it. I think more should be, you're going to be hard pressed to find a better one than this Virginia Distillery company. I'm super, super satisfied with this overall flight of six Whiskey's. We had I can't thank him enough for sending him our way. Yeah, 100%. The the stuff that they are putting out is fascinating and if if you are like us, And you've drank a lot of different whiskeys in the last 45 years of the whiskey, boom, go try this stuff out because there's not a lot of American single malts out there. If you're looking to experience something new and fun and interesting and delicious, then these whiskies are should be right up your alley.

26:07 All right. Brad it's time for us to get over to our interview with Marcus Choi, who plays George Washington in the traveling tour of Hamilton. Excited for this one, Brad. What do you say? Yeah, let's get to it, man. I'm really pumped for this. All right, everybody, we are joined by Marcus Choi who is currently touring with Hamilton in the Philip tour, as George Washington, Marcus. How you doing today? I'm good. I'm good. Thanks for having me, guys. Oh man, I'm so excited to talk to you. Listen, we had your former cast mate Jared Dixon on a couple months ago and in the wake of dicks them. How? Yeah. Right. Exactly. Yeah. In the wake of that, we were like we gotta get more Hamilton people on the show the spike in listenership was drastic so that I really No, like seriously, I, you know, you hear about how die-hard like the Hamill fans are and then you see it like Quantified in your downloads and it's like, okay, you know, at that point Jared hadn't even announced that he was going to Broadway, and he kind of told us off air, and we weren't allowed to disclose it and so, you know, just for somebody that's in like the touring company. Yeah, it was like the response was insane on. Like, it's got to be incredible.

27:20 Just as a member of the Hamilton family. Argus to see the level of support that you get from the community. Oh yeah. So sure. I mean in and now it's a global brand, right? And you know, musical theater is just becoming so popular in Asia, South Asia, South America, and Europe. You know, it's, it's exploding everywhere. And so Hamilton is just kind of like this. It was kind of like leading the way now. You know what I mean? Because you know it's an intersection of so many things that people enjoy like hip-hop and rap and Musical Theater history. And, you know, just kind of like American history, American culture and history and and, and, and the Fanatics that follow and support the show.

28:09 It runs deep. Yeah, I opened up Spotify yesterday and it was like new for you. The German language version, Of the track just drop it. Yeah, I think they were recording an album. Oh my God. That's incredible. Listen, if they need a ringer for anyone in a different language version of The Stage production, are you, are you able to tap in for anybody? And it's certainly not German maybe if they record a Korean now then, I don't know, you know, I'll do my best. I love that. Yeah so Marcus just to give a little bit of a bio on Marcus. He has appeared on Broadway in shows like Flower Drum song Wicked Witch dinky were in the original cast on Wicked, right?

28:54 Yeah both of those channels. Yeah that's incredible. Sweet charity Allegiance Miss Saigon and then he's had over 60 credits listed on his IMDb in both film and TV. I've got a couple that I want to pick out just from those because it's like some of my favorite TV shows and movies but Marcus we're gonna kind of like throw it way back to the beginning. So how I've been on stage and on screen, why don't we start off by talking about like what are the primary differences of having to flip the switch between, you know, projecting to the back row and then being able to be subtle enough for a close-up when you're on camera? Sure. Yeah, you know, I think historically, when it comes to theatres, you know, the idea of like having two project is, it's not necessarily very anymore because we're all miked, right?

29:44 Right. And so that at that affords us, the opportunity to kind of lean into more intimate moments and not have to, you know, project if you're having a 72 quiet moment, you know what I mean. Mmm, but certainly on stage, you know, you have to play to that last grow up in the balcony. So City Light is certainly bigger gestures and actions could be bigger you know and when it comes to like TV and film and acting in film and TV, and for the camera and acting on stage. It's funny, I always say that it's basically the same muscle that you're just.

30:26 It's just a different technique. Does that make sense? Yeah. Absolutely. Or is it like, you know, I imagine like the old poster for remember the Arnold Schwarzenegger documentary like what's called pumping iron or whatever and it's just like you except yeah like I just I kind of wonder if it's like the difference between It being on stage at the body building where you're like in your little Speedo and having to flex as hard as you can versus like yeah I've got these muscles but I don't have to show them off in this way. All right right right yeah like to imagine Arnold just walks around California in his little stressed in a speedo sure like flexing constantly you know he did Muscle Beach down in Venice all the time, of course I would. Yeah, just just messing with dudes but it's funny, you know, Like, you know, there's a hose that rule of like, oh, you're on camera.

31:17 Things are much smaller, you know, you just play. You just you don't have to be as big, but Master, Adam Driver and marriage story. This point but like my examples are, was Jim Carrey. You know, like Jim Carrey is larger than life and and so amazing at his crap at being big, you know. And and certainly his dramatic work is speaks for itself with well but you know Those rules, don't always apply, I think, and I am, and I think whatever is specific in to you as an artist in whatever. Works for you is you know where you can capitalize on, you know. Yeah that works. It's relatively well and like your point to I'm looking through your IMDb credits and you know way back towards the beginning of some of your first on-screen stuff. It says that you were a dancer in the movie and chanted which oh yeah, Brad and I are noted Amy Adams fans. So please, if you have anything horrible to say about her, I don't want to know but I do know where she is until I left Amy Adams.

32:22 And I have to admit like I was I was a huge fan of hers like even when we first started shooting and like I was just super excited to be at on set with her and at that time I had just finished doing Wicked with Adina. So like it was it was like this weird situation where like I was a dancer in Maybe, but like because I knew one of the Stars I was hanging out with her and like, the other stars. Then I got with that crappy would like James Marsden, Amy Adams, where I was just like, you know, where I started a conversation with Amy and I was just like, you know, do you live in New York and like I wanted to shoot my shot so bad if you Like, if you need anything but respectful and professional, that's probably the way to go in retrospect, I think.

33:25 Yeah. Right. Or you could be married to Amy Adams right now. That's true. Which is the extremes that you put, like a full breath. You know what? I wasn't planning on asking a question like this, but you bring up James Marsden and I know he's got a new TV show out right now, called jury duty, which is like really pulling in fantastic. Is and I want to ask about like a James Marsden in the year 2023, because, you know, I'm watching like, I'm a huge fan of the classic, MGM musicals and like, your Gene Kelly hands. And it just seemed like we had, you know, back in the day when the studios were pumping these movies out there were these Specialists, that were the best singers. The best dancers that had movie star looks and could act. And every you know, they was like a quadruple threat. Yeah, and I feel like those actors are. So few and far between now, You know, you've got a couple that can make the transition like a James Marsden or a huge Ackman or, you know, one Jaclyn.

34:19 Yeah. But like, what do you think it is about the current Hollywood System that when we do a musical, it's like, no. We don't want like a huge Ackman for this. We want a Ryan Gosling so that we can do like, a more grounded, LOL, and thing like you sure we undervalue the triple threats now. Oh, wow. That's a great question. And It might be, I think maybe like entertainment might be going through some sort of Renaissance, where, where they're they're being valued again or or they're, they're being utilized as to put that. Hmm. And just because the movie musical has become such a thing, right? Like the, like, the live-action of my cartoons is becoming such a thing.

35:07 Mmm. So I feel like they are being utilized more And certainly with with like the last, I would say the last you know, 30 40 years, you know that that like gold and Arab movie musicals, definitely went away. Hmm. But yeah. Like if you think of somebody like like Hugh Jackman, you know, it's like he literally like it God were to be like I'm going to create the perfect man and just like shut down lightning and all of a sudden friend The Earth be the perfect man. That could do. Everything is Hugh Jackman? You know what I mean, right?

35:47 Like it's just not fair well like you know, we did we did a season on the podcast where we picked movies kind of from like growing up that we wanted to revisit that. We weren't sure, we're great. And it was a really fun season. And one of the movies that I picked was a movie, from way back in 2011, called young adult, it's like a dramedy with Charlize Theron and one of the actors in it is Patrick Wilson and I have no idea. Don't like a year ago that Patrick Wilson, Angelic voice. Like, I just happen to be browsing Spotify on like a show tunes thing. I had no idea that he did a Revival of Brigadoon and, you know, it's just it's so funny because it seems like he has to live these two separate lives which is like Broadway musical star and then serious Hollywood actor and they don't overlap at all. You know, that I think it is too is because like I call I call like Broadway shows, or just You know, the theater schedule blue-collar entertainment because the schedule is Relentless, you know, eight shows a week and for us being on tour, you know, five show weekends, it's just exhausting right?

36:56 And when you I think as actors, you know, a lot of a lot of actors, get their start from the stage. But and when you, when you reach a certain level and you're able to break that threshold into TV and film, you know, that's the gluten-free. Ready, right? And and I think, once you once you reach that point, you don't have to hold your theater skills or you don't have to dance, or take dance class or voice lessons anymore because you're like a series TV actor or Screen Actor, right? Yeah. And so, I think that kind of lends itself to what you're talking about as far as the, you know, kind of like this disappearance of the Triple Threat, you know, because actors didn't Gluten have to hone those skills anymore. Yeah.

37:45 You know what to sing? You don't have to sing for your food anymore. You can just act like for it. Exactly. Yeah, and because they're just so much content. Now, like normal people are breaking through without having a lot of like, any training, you know. I mean you're steering about people being discovered all the time or just like new people popping up and although they might have taken, you know, you know Conservatory class here or you know, acting classes or dad class. she's with whatever you know, it's not like you know, going the traditional route and getting your MFA or your BF, a do this, you know, school and you, you know and like Going to the like you know London to like study Peter.

38:30 You don't necessarily happen go that route anymore because there's just so mate, so many Avenues now. That's man, that's fascinating it the way you were talking about. It has me almost thinking about like football throughout the world and how, you know, in Europe and in South America they have all of these youth organizations set up to basically scout out. Who's going to make it in the world of football and who's not? And it seems to me like, in the world of acting and stuff. There used to be a similar system that you were talking about of like theater and stage and, and use our schools and conservatories but now, like, I don't know, do you think that it's getting a little watered down as, you know, as streamers are looking for 80 new shows to six month?

39:19 Yeah, you know I think both things can be true. I also feel like there are So many hitch knows now that once you become a child actor you're already in the public eye. Yeah. So so networks and Studios have to work less to promote you as you get older. Mmm. You know what I mean? So just like these children actors. They're just like they're just jumping from like Nickelodeon show to the Disney show and then all of a sudden they're like on the Netflix show that being produced by a 20 her already. Well, you know that they're adults, but you know, What I mean? Yeah, sitting sitting courtside at the Laker game. You know, perfect. Is that he's all right. Well, we've gotten like way off the, The Hamilton track and I was kind of curious with being a part of a traveling group. You know, you're spending a week here, two or three weeks. They're like, what are the challenges of traveling so much for work, but then also, like, what do you love about it? AB sure.

40:21 Yeah, I have the challenges I would just say is just like packing up, you know, certainly after after the lockdown ended I had just accumulated so much stuff that like like I drive the tour also. I got my own car and oh wow, just pack that packing everything up and then put it in the car getting to the next city and unpacking everything. That's probably the biggest challenge. Because, you know, I have my kitchen staff. I got, I love cooking. So, like I have like my knives and my, you know, pots and pans. And you know, utensils and stamp and I'm a sneakerhead. So I gotta let him shoot through the no trouble, you know. And, you know, I just like, you know, at this point in my life, I'm like, there's certain things that I just don't want to have to him about, right?

41:12 And then And it will just like settle on, you know. And so the packing certainly is probably the biggest challenge, but I love a love child drop traveling. And being able to, you know, go to these new cities and experience them through the show because you know, it's just like America is so big, you know, and I grew up in California and I lived in New York and you know, all those places are great. Wait, there are so many other places that I just never got a chance to experience. And so being able to travel for work and eat at all the different restaurants and like, you know, experience, what like Bruce city is you being at for and, and, like eat, like even here, like this is our second time in Appleton, right? And Appleton is a tiny little town. But there's this restaurant that I was go to that. I went to the first how we're here. It's called basil Cafe.

42:12 And it's a shout out to Larry over at basil Cafe because it's a Vietnamese and Viet Thai restaurant and they make some of the most incredible food. I was just talking to my girlfriend the other day. We went out to lunch and I was just saying, like this restaurant would be successful anywhere in the country. Yeah, like, it's that good but like, it's in tiny little Appleton and so, like, you know, it's that kind of stuff that I love about being able to travel. As I know that you're speaking Bob's language. Because he and his wife did a road trip for there. Honeymoon around the country. And I'm sure they found the best burger place in every state and Ice. You better. Where do you go to Minneapolis and try the Juicy Lucy? Okay?

42:52 So listen, this is a point of contention with me and my wife. Because we'd so, you know, we live in the Cleveland area, we took 90 all the way from Cleveland to Seattle and, and so, this Juicy Lucy was about an hour off, the beaten path. And my wife was so this was like, this was only like date. Your for of the honeymoon. And she was like, I don't want a burger anymore. Look, like, give me a day to recover from burgers, and then we'll start again. So I missed that one, but we had Juicy Lucy. There's like a steak house in Seattle, that we got a Juicy Lucy at that was okay. It's pretty darn good. Yeah, yeah. All right, all right. Yeah. When we are in Minneapolis speaking was Diners Drive-Ins, and Dives, it was an episode where where Guy Fieri went to like Minneapolis.

43:41 And they're like to Les routes that say they started. The Juicy Lucy. Yep. That and I had my board Conroe Panda Brooks. And I, he was with the show before. I was like, dude, we have to go. So the one was in this tiny little bar. It was like the dive east of barred but they haven't Little Grill. I forgot what it was called but it was, oh, it's so good if you have a chance because it's you me habilis definitely behind the bar. I'll send you the information. Please do use. You got, you got brought you on like low-key. I just wanted food regimen. You know, that's actually a great segue, though, because your Instagram which is where we first connected, you know, we did this episode with Jared and you can, we're super kind, given us a shout out and then I started checking out your Instagram and I was like this man knows food, this man knows drinks and I know you've got it. You guys on the Hamilton tour have a great relationship with Nelson's Greenbrier Fire.

44:42 And we've had this before. Yeah, they are great. So I've got to ask you having been to all these tiny, little towns and cities Across America, that you normally wouldn't have been able to go to like, which ones immediately jump to front of mine. When I talk about Food Cities, and I don't mean like, okay, like, of course, New York and l.a., right? Because they just had every church, right? But like like hidden Gems or just for the size of the city, I was blown away by the food atmosphere here. well, certainly Seattle Portland and You know what? Let me let them marinate. I was going to say I can feel you like flipping through of the the book in your mind and just try City.

45:24 There's like that that has like incredible food across the board. There's like restaurants that might cut and in different places like Memphis, the original, what's up, what's up? Fried chicken place. Gases gases Fried Chicken. Yeah, yep. At the original. The original one was right around the corner from from the theater. Like that was incredible. Tulsa Oklahoma. There is, as tidy, this tiny little Steak House in the back is back, alley, called bull in the alley. Amazing drinks, amazing Stakes, like that, that kind of stuff. You know what I mean? Bull in the alley bowling alley, very big fan of that Billy had. Double like low-key, incredible food. I know a lot of people are always like, oh, I believe she's Philly cheese and yet they do have it. That there is just that, I mean, it's so diverse there. They're like they have so many like, great authentic restaurants.

46:25 I lived in Philly for a year and there's a restaurant on the north side of town called Tierra Colombiana that had it's like Colombian and Cuban food. That is easily they have the best flan I've ever had everything. Your was incredible. So, do I Am with You? Philly is an incredible Food City. Yeah. For sure. I will have you both know that like, the cardinal rule of having a podcast is no free promo and we have given like 50 and restaurants the best. I'm gonna be invoicing all these places, right? But honestly, it's like like I just have less hair than because you know, whenever we go there just like, okay, take care of us.

47:07 You know, sometimes they find out that we're there with the show. Show and they just they take care of us until I got nothing but love for all these places. Absolutely. Alright, let's talk a little bit more about the show before we get into movies here. So yeah, you are, I believe I read this in an interview. You gave the you are the first Asian American man. To play George Washington in Hamilton. Is that correct? Yeah, still the only one. Wow. I mean just like let's just stop there for a second. What is the significance of that for you? Not just playing this iconic theater character but also who that character represents an American history Sure, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's it's incredible. Yeah, it's kind of feel like it's an honor and responsibility to like, always kind of do my best and, like, carry that torch, and for just like the Optics and Asian Americans in entertainment, you know, like, when I was, when I was growing up, Like Miss Saigon was the show, right? And when I was in high school and, you know, into musical theater, just getting started, you know, my parents were skeptical of me going into the business. You know, they could be close like as immigrant parents. They just, they want their kids to be happy and successful, right?

48:30 Like any pair and but as immigrants, they just had, they had no idea what the entertainment business. Business is like, you know, and and so I think there was a lot of fear around supporting me making the choice to go into acting because he didn't know how to support me in it, you know? And, and so, like, when, and when Miss Saigon came around and I saw it and I school, that was the first time where I was like, there's a place for me in this business, you know, at the highest level as far as musicals go because I was just like all about me Vehicles going up and years and years and years later. Now that this like Halligan is my first tour and being able to do this this role in this show, on tour is giving an opportunity to all those little Marcus's across the country that never thought that there was a place for them. you know, hope and the the strength to know that like there is a place you know and that if there was any kind of hesitation To squash it and and follow your passion because certainly, you know, it's sounds so trivial to say, but like, if I can do it, you can do it, you know.

49:52 And and like I feel like it's a responsibility that I think that's another reason why I've been with the show for such a long time. Like I feel like it's like a bit of a responsibility to like continue that. Yeah, as we go to new cities, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in a lot of ways, like when you talk about best president, it's either George or Abraham. Right? Right, right. Those are, those are the two, right? And I'd say, George Washington is probably the top five. Most famous u.s. person ever. Sure. Sure like it. So I'm curious like as you've played this part over the years and done research for the role.

50:32 Like, is there anything you've learned about George Washington and your time playing him that like a lot of people wouldn't know about him and yeah. A couple of things. Do you like, you just in doing my research for the part? I just, I think the reason why she was successful during the Revolutionary War with, because he had learned from so many of his losses during the French and Indian War. He was younger than he was a younger officer that just like he basically got his butt kicked a bunch of times. And but back, Back then Rules of Engagement were when the like the captain or the general of whatever truth that had lost was captured, they would they would be returned without you know, being harmed. Hmm.

51:28 And so I think, you know, when it came into, you know, war and fighting and you know, kind of operating on that level, I think he was he was successful. Cecil because of all the things that he learned and it's the thing that was that was kind of crazy was like, he was only most considered like a, like, a deity. Yeah, because of certain many crazy things that happened during battle like He was always on his horse, he was always in the fight and when they would, you know, the fight would end, he would, his jacket would be riddled with bullet holes, but he wouldn't, he didn't have any.

52:11 He what? You never got shot. That's crazy. It's a, he said, you know, but like You know, not to put you foot and find a point on it, you know, it's like that is that also lends itself to his belief in God and, and how that might have, like, kind of like, made the like, the little more. Hmm. Oh, or the Mystique of, you know, George Washington grow even more because maybe, you know, people thought that he was touched by God or, you know, it in, in that sense, because he was just like.he You never died in battle, you know, and then you know to to end up leading the country with such Integrity, you know? And and he was building around, you wasn't perfect. You know?

53:02 Like at that time, they were are, well, you know, it's the Great American Saint right there were all slave owners and and but I know that he did a lot of things to try to improve the life of his slaves. He tried to connect family members with different slave owners as like, you know, As like his slaves, women get older and older, and but certainly to have the foresight relinquishing, you know, the office after after serving a term, you know, in that selfless act because he could have easily been the king of America easily. Yeah. And and in just that act alone, you know, really? I think that's, that's probably the main reason why he was so Oh beloved you know, in setting up the country that way. Alright, let's go ahead and pivot to movies here. Like I want to get you talking about movies a little bit before we let yesterday and, you know, we planned this out for an early May release not realizing at the time, at least I did realize at the time but may is Asian American Pacific, Islander heritage month.

54:13 And then I was like, oh my gosh like you know I saw you posting a, you've been a pretty vocal advocate for API issues on your Instagram? Yeah. And And let's get you talking about this a little bit and I trunk you know, if I can speak freely here we have had a lot more diversity in the voices that are being presented and can come to the table in Hollywood. In the last 5-10 years, there is still like a huge void in Asian American voices in Hollywood in particular. And I had initially floated to you the idea of like let's do a top five aapi movies and then I you know, I'm just Are Googling like, because I had my list of five and I'm like, well, what are the other ones?

54:55 And then there was like, only five movies. Like if you're not gonna bring up every movie. That's like a martial arts related movie, ever, you know, right? Everyone talks about the Joy Luck Club, you know? And and since last year, everyone talks about everything everywhere, all at once, and sure, I think that the first place I'd like to go with this is just to acknowledge that. While we all have our favorite movies. In this category, it is one of the most underserved and underutilized. Missions in terms of having diverse voices represented. Yeah, no, I don't the completely agree with that said, I reach back out to you and I was like, Marcus, what are we going to talk about here? And you were like, dude, I got this. I want to talk about my favorite movie star of all time. Why don't you introduce us to the topic at hand today? I would love to talk to you guys about my childhood. Hero Mr. Bruce Lee himself.

55:45 Yeah, that's right. He is yeah, when we started the Tour in Seattle, And I made it a point to, you know, go visit his burial, you know, pay my respects. Because man Bruce Lee was everything when we were growing up everything. Like I was like I'm 45. I was born in 77 so I would spend every Saturday morning watching Kung Fu theater black belt theater, you know, the dead, you know, Shaw Brothers, kung fu movies every week and Bruce Lee was one of those guys that just, he was like a real life superhero. Yeah, you know, and it just made me feel like you see myself, you know, on TV even though if you know, Though, he was speaking Chinese.

56:41 It was dubbed, like I understood that like oh like he there's there's a significant amount of, you know, traction that this man has created through martial arts and then getting though, as I was getting older and just getting into his light more and more just understanding that, you know, his journey was so remarkable. Oil and crazy that he passed away at such an early age. Yeah. Well, I was asked about that like having that element of it folded in to your experience with Bruce Lee because you know, his most famous movie is released in America as Enter the Dragon. And I didn't even realize this until today it comes out like a month after he died and that in a lot of ways was like many Americans introduction to the guy and here he is like he's not with us anymore and so in a lot of ways, you know, his Legend grows the way.

57:40 A James Dean would have, which is, he makes sure these and then he's gone and it's so obviously gone too soon. But for you growing up watching his movies but also knowing that he was dead at that point. Like what what does that do for the legend of Bruce Lee for you as a kid? Ohe just become like, he just becomes otherworldly, right? Like, he's like in my mind, he's like the biggest thing because there's, no, there's no decline. He's locked in time, as this, you know, incredibly strong quick Fierce Asian, man, that was able to like destroy people with his hands.

58:29 Like, take on like like in the end Fists of Fury. Yeah. Like he takes out of high school and like karate. Fight like a karate school, you know what I mean? Yep, yeah, they didn't teach you remember that scene where he's like, running the Rickshaw. He's in Disguise. Oh yeah. And like he lives here, except the kind of stamp, you know, and I know that there will be bad joking. And it's laughable kind of now. But, like back then, as a kid, just doing what technology was like, it was incredible to me. You can see his influence, those still to this day, like They are hits theaters last year and it's this, this Bollywood Masterpiece and it comes to America. And I'm watching it.

59:16 And I'm going, oh yeah, scenes, where he's taking on, you know, a thousand human beings at once. Yeah, yeah that's that's Bruce Lee. Like like right there you can see the through line. Well, you know, it's he was, he was the person who ushered in martial, arts movies and to America, there would be no Jackie Chan. There will be no jet leet, you know, there will be no, it wouldn't be these guys. Guys, if this Lee didn't kind of like open up that door, you know. Yeah man. He was it was just like I would like every time I would watch a movie, I would like Kai a couple of sticks together and just be screaming during my numchucks around the house. Jumping off the tables like fighting with my brother rescue. Each sample II was all about it man. Yeah, that's flexing it in like screaming in the mirror. Well then, let me ask this is like my closing question on Bruce Lee, how personally offended and hurt? Were you that Quentin?

1:00:16 Tarantino had him just get his wrecked by Brad Pitt in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. You know, it's funny the guy who played the the actor who played Bruce Lee is a buddy of mine. Oh that's and yeah, shout out to Mike Mo, you know, he's great, great actor and a martial artist. Honestly, I didn't mind it. Yeah, I understood that Tarantino had his point of view on it and the movie. What was it about Bruce Lee, right? The movie was about this step man that It happened to be around the same time and you know, like I was entertained by the scene I thought it was I thought it was fun, you know?

1:01:02 And and I can see how people would would get upset at that. But at the same time it's like it's just a movie, right? And and I can't like look, you gotta pick and choose your battles, right? Like I'm not gonna I'm not gonna plan that sword 100% You know, I wasn't trying to lead you into a trap there. I've just recently My Tribe I had I don't think I do comedy now, right. Like whereas can years ago you comedians could do and say whatever they wanted and say if comedy right well it can't do that anymore, you know? Well and I dear point to I think one of the great things about Bruce Lee is that he was willing to get his ass kicked on screen. Like you knew he would come back at the end. You know, one of his most famous scenes is When he's fighting Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and like Kareem leaves a gigantic footprint on his chest because if 7 feet tall. Hey, Kayla bag, right?

1:01:58 I read every. I feel like every week now about these action stars that, have it built into their contracts. Now, that they cannot lose a fight in a movie, and it's like, you know, just just for the sake of the narrative, like, seeing your guy get beat and then have to rise again to win. The ultimate Victory is so much more compelling and so I'm with you in the other day. I don't think Bruce Lee would have even minded seeing Bruce, Lee depicted, that way, because it's super consistent with what he did on screen. Sure. That like feels like the American way like we talked earlier George Washington became a great General because he sucked at it earlier in his career. Yeah, exactly. Like like we all go through struggles.

1:02:39 It's the hero's journey 100. Yeah. Yeah. Before we go I know this is called them and I ski And we didn't even talk about whiskey yet. Just really quick, do it? I just wanted, I just wanted to talk about one of my favorite whiskies Japanese whiskeys because it's, you're a pi Bond. Yeah, well, I know I'm pretty a bourbon guy, but if you guys haven't had a chance to try the vulcano. Oh no, we have not Z. Fukatsu. No f u Kan. Oh it's it's it's a risky. But it Said they added rice to the distilling process and and then you know like I just I love Japanese whiskeys.

1:03:25 I'm not a huge single malt fan but when it comes to like just whiskey in general, like the Japanese really know how to do it. Well, this whiskey in, in particular, they agent in Sherry barrels. And I know that it's, you know, that's a really popular thing to do now but it was one of the first ones that I tried. I'd and it is, it's incredible. The ficano. If you get a chance to try it, absolutely try it. I was going to say we we don't hunt a lot, but I'm looking at this right now. Bob put it up, put it at the top of the hunting list. No. And yell do here, we need to get ourselves some, the ficano. Well, how about we do this with Marcus?

1:04:08 Next time? We do a Bruce Lee movie or anything related that you would like to come back on and join us for, we'll sit down. We'll talk about a movie and we'll drink some folk on. What do you say? I like it. Let's do it. I travel. I travel with a backpack. Well guys, this has been Marcus Choi. He is currently on tour with the Hamilton, Philip tour, as George Washington. I am seriously. So honored you sat down with us. Thank you again for joining us today. Marcus, I was a pleasure, thank you so much for having me. You guys will be back again on Tuesday with another regularly scheduled episode. But until then, I'm Bob book, I'm Brad G. She and we'll see you next time.